Atlanta Hawks: Prospect focus: Vanderbilt’s Jeffery Taylor
Here’s something different: An NBA hopeful who’s about defense.
“I think it’s more of a mental thing,” said Vanderbilt wing Jeffery Taylor. “It’s more about how you approach the game. I think a lot of guys nowadays don’t really value defense. It’s all about scoring, the highlight plays and whatnot. My dad always instilled in me a defensive mentality. You need to be prideful in what you do on the court, and part of having pride is not letting someone score on you.”
Taylor was voted to the SEC’s all-defense team three times, joining Mississippi State’s Jarvis Varnado as the only players in league history to do so. He says he’s been a “big fan of [Thabo] Sefolosha for a long time.”
“I think defense is kind of like a lost art, almost,” Taylor said. “If you look at Sefolosha in the playoffs, he’s playing tremendous defense. He’s making a lot of key plays for them. A wing defender that’s good at what he does and can score the ball as well is a valuable asset.”
Taylor’s focus on defense has paid off. His potential at that end is what makes him a possible first-round pick in a league where perimeter scorers predominate and wing defenders are valuable.
Hawks assistant GM Dave Pendergraft said Taylor has the athleticism and basketball IQ to be an “above-average” defender but noted Taylor’s prowess didn’t jump out at him while watching video.
“He has that reputation of being one of the better defenders in the NCAA, and he looked like a good defender but it’s not like he strikes fear in you,” Pendergraft said. “We bring him here [for a workout] and watch his footwork and how quick he is, you can see it really up close. He’s got really quick feet and he’s very, very strong and very athletic.
“He is one of the better defenders in college basketball. Does it transfer over to the NBA? You’d like to think so because he does have quick feet and he has good size. I don’t think there is a lot of negatives. He does have average length but there have been a lot of good defenders with average length if they a have quick feet but he understands the angles.”
That’s where the comparisons to Sefolosha and Taylor end. Taylor is shorter than Sefolosha and not nearly as long–he has a relatively short 6-6 wingspan.
On the plus side, Taylor is more athletic than Sefolosha and potentially a better shooter.
“The surprising things is how well he shoots it,” Pendergraft said. “When you go from [22] percent to [43] percent as senior [on 3-pointers], he’s made great strides shooting the ball. Towards the end of season at Vandy I expected it to go in. It was the same thing here [for workouts]. In all the shooting drills he was at a high percentage.”
Even when Taylor wasn’t making shots he was still an efficient scorer because of a good free-throw rate (in spite of a poor free-throw percentage. A DraftExpress.com analysis showed that Taylor was a high-efficiency, low-usage scorer in transition at Vandy.
Taylor had a high turnover rate, however, because he’s a shaky ball-handler.
“It’s definitely something I need to work on,” he said. “That’s probably one of my main focuses right now.”
Taylor’s dad, Jeff, was a guard at Texas Tech and played 56 games in the NBA before starting a career in Europe. Jeffery Taylor was born and raised in Sweden and came to the U.S. when he was 17; he has dual citizenship.
“That was a bit of a culture shock,” he said. “The U.S. is a lot different from Sweden: culture, people, school. I was having a culture shock experience for the first five or six months but then I got used to it and it wasn’t a big deal.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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195 comments Add your comment
TMACfan
June 26th, 2012
8:18 pm
NBA TV just had a segment on Harison Barnes and said he will be atleast as good as Marvin Williams with Tracy McGrady upside.
This makes no sense at all. I am quoting that from NBA TV.
If someone wants Marvin Williams 2.0, they can pick up Marvin Williams for a draft pick or better, FOR FREE!!
Najeh Davenpoop
June 26th, 2012
8:25 pm
There is always a place in the NBA for a perimeter defender who can shoot. Seems like a pretty safe pick, although maybe not the one with the most upside.
Rod from College Park
June 26th, 2012
8:31 pm
“Jamal Crawford was every bit a part of Portland’s bad season as anybody there…”
I guess that’s why Jamal took his starting job halfway thru the season, playing point guard,a position that everyone knows he should not play. SMH
hawksfancents95
June 26th, 2012
8:36 pm
i like jeffery taylors stance on defense and pride. i do think, however, we can get a perimeter defender at #43 like darius miller that can be a solid role player for us in his first year and that would allow us to get a prospect for the future with a lot of potential at #23. someone will fall to #23 as random players will get drafted no1 expects i.e OLB Bruce Irvin by SEA Seahawks pick #15 in this past NFL draft. so im sure some teams ahead of us might make a surprise foreign pick or someone not really tauted as a 1st round player.
Will
June 26th, 2012
8:41 pm
He’s a guy I really like. He could immediately fill a role as a solid defender while becoming a dependable perimeter shooter. At 23 that’s pretty good value. I think he could potentially give us what Marvin does fairly quickly. Even though Marvin is taller and longer, he seems to hunch over most of the time and doesn’t seem to play to his length imo.
Melvin
June 26th, 2012
8:49 pm
Not impress with Jeffery Taylor. Get me Quincy Miller in here….
Melvin
June 26th, 2012
8:52 pm
Why the heck would Charlotte trade the expiring contract of Corey Maggette for Ben “Big Contract” Gordon?
Ra'mon
June 26th, 2012
8:55 pm
So I am the only one who think he sounds too close to Mo Evans to draft?
Ra'mon
June 26th, 2012
8:59 pm
Melvin, Charlotte got a first round pick for next year’s draft in the deal as well. Detroit will not be a playoff team. So Charlotte just picked up an extra lottery pick in a draft that will be very deep next season. So to go along with last year’s pick in Walker, they have a good pick this season, and two coming next year.
brigadierjerry
June 26th, 2012
8:59 pm
have a feeling this blog is going to explode thursday night depending if the fans player is picked or not.
who are ur top 6 guys u guys want the hawks to pick?
Just Joe
June 26th, 2012
9:01 pm
Detroit pick is lottery protected next year….top 8 in 2014….1st overall in 2015….then unprotected in 2016.
Ray
June 26th, 2012
9:01 pm
At #23 Jeff Taylor is actually pretty good for us him or The Vandy C.
brigadierjerry
June 26th, 2012
9:02 pm
have a feeling marvin and josh or horford will be gone before season starts.
also hawks will pick best player available that can play right away.
brigadierjerry
June 26th, 2012
9:05 pm
hi-sider,
who is a better player jason terry or crawford?
Meidzo
June 26th, 2012
9:12 pm
I absolutely love Miles Plumlee as a sleeper. He averaged 7 and 7 (not the drink you alcoholics) playing only 20 mins at Duke. (Coach K?) He measured almost an inch and a half taller than D12 did in shoes (6′ 11 3/4″)and he had a 34″ inch standing vertical and a 40 1/2″ max vertical (one of the best ever for a 7 footer). Notice guys don’t start great defensive positioning and taking charges in the NBA, they start in college. The Heat just showed you don’t need Mutombo in the middle and I know DF will get the right coach in here. This guy will play well and not need the ball (basically the Anti-Smoove).
Melvin
June 26th, 2012
9:18 pm
Ra’mon,
Good point on the Bobcats/Pistons trade. I overlooked the draft pick the Bobcats are getting. I like that trade better from them now.
Nilo
June 26th, 2012
9:23 pm
Do not want. Don’t want Ezeli either.
Melvin
June 26th, 2012
9:29 pm
Just tuned in the NBA Combine on ESPN. Caught Wroten shooting the last 3 racks of 3pt shots. I say he was at least 50-60%. However, he does not look like a natural shooter at all but I can see him playing some SG with his size and skill set….
SteveW
June 26th, 2012
9:46 pm
ESPN reported Houston is looking to trade for Josh Smith in an effort to acquire D12. I wonder if Dalembert and Lowry for Josh would be a good trade? The salaries match really well.
They then trade their 3 first picks and maybe Scola and other young pieces to Orlando for Dwight.
Maybe it works for them, maybe it doesn’t.
And if Budinger pulls in a #18 pick (the ‘Wolves also get the rights to some guy I’ve never heard of – but he may be good, I just don’t know) – Marvin should be worth the #24 pick of the Cavs, the 30th and maybe the 35th pick of the Warriors, or the #33 and 34 picks of the Cavs.
Let the other team have the rights to Gladyr, Akoyl, and a bag of chips also.
SteveW
June 26th, 2012
9:52 pm
Brigadeir Jerry – I’m not HS, but I would say Jason Terry over his career. I think Jamal may be a little younger, so Jamal maybe right now.
I was never for the Jason Terry trade from the Hawks…
SteveW
June 26th, 2012
9:58 pm
Marvin Williams is the key to our cap space future really, in a sense – if you can dump him – and I think GSW and the Cavs can absorb his contract, and get a decent pick, our cap space looks like:
JJ – 22 mill average
Al – 12 mill
Josh – 15 mill
ZaZa – 6 mill
Teague – 6 mill
That’s 61 mill – for 5 players – the rest of it is survivable. But realistically, I think the Hawks ditch Josh moving forward. But I have no idea who or what they get for him.
SteveW
June 26th, 2012
10:00 pm
Funny we talk about how terrible Jamal is on this blog, how he wouldn’t have made a difference against the Celts, and that he plays no D, and the Celts are all about D etc.
But it’s being reported that the Celts are interested in Jamal. Somebody in Beantown likes him
Astro Joe
June 26th, 2012
10:00 pm
I wonder if Dalembert and Lowry for Josh would be a good trade?
No, that would be a GREAT trade. A top 10 PG still in his prime and a serviceable center with above average shotblocking ability? Two starters for Josh? Move Teague to a SMOY candidate role (like Lou Williams) and allow him to stop worrying about being a pure PG and just let him loose for around 28 minutes/game? Yeah, that would be a very nice trade. But they will likely try to hold on to Lowry, Martin and 2 of their 3 picks for D12.
Miller seems to be moving down in several mock drafts. I wonder if his leg is an issue. Taylor’s upside is his ability to improve his dribble and become an Afflalo type player. It would be dangerous to put him in the backcourt if his handle is weak and he may not be big enough to even annoy Lebron, Granger, Pierce, Melo or Deng (dang, there are some high-powered SFs in our conference).
SteveW
June 26th, 2012
10:01 pm
I’m not sure that a Jeff Taylor/Darius Miller combination at the 3 doesn’t give you about what Marvin gives us.
Astro Joe
June 26th, 2012
10:04 pm
I’ve never seen Wroten play… his jumper would need to be seriously broken to hold that against him at the bottom of the 1st round. A ton of guys enter the league with a shaky jumper. The list is far too long to even get started (although Billups comes to mind). My guess is there are other concerns. At 6′6″ with reputed strong defensive and passing skills… that just seems like a guy worthy of serious consideration. And he is part of the last group of workouts, so he gets to leave an impression with the new boss a day or so before the draft.
brigadierjerry
June 26th, 2012
10:04 pm
steve w
i agree with u with terry. i have asked hi-sider this question three time he has yet to answer but oh well.
yeah terry shouldve never got traded but coach and team was a mess back then
SteveW
June 26th, 2012
10:07 pm
AJ – But you know, Scola, KMart, 3 mid level 1st rounders and maybe some other filler for D12 is a pretty good deal for the Magic.
Especially if Dwight is just a 1 year rental.
But I could see Houston, if they really wanted D12, giving us Lowry and Dalembert for Josh.
Lang Greene has been saying look to Houston to trade Josh for ages.
I could deal with a team of:
Dalembert/ZaZa
Al/Ivan
Marvin/Taylor
JJ/?
Lowry/Teague
Pretty solid and well balanced.
SteveW
June 26th, 2012
10:14 pm
If Houston pulled off those 2 trades, re-signed Dragic and Lee, they have a team of:
D12
Josh
Morris
Lee
Dragic
With Patrick Patterson, Chandler Parsons and some other guys – that is not a bad team.
hmmmm.........
June 26th, 2012
10:14 pm
I heard Houston might to move try Lowry as well, they have goran dragic. I’d hate to see smith go but the Hawks need to shake up the roster i’d see JJ or Marvin leave
brigadierjerry
June 26th, 2012
10:14 pm
if josh or horford get traded before season shows hawks are changing course. lets face it sometimes time to move on when a group such as this is together too long without any tangible results.
i also dont see if josh is traded some big decrease in fan attendance because josh is traded and josh is considered most popular player. i think depending on type of moves it will bring some life to fanbase
cp
June 26th, 2012
10:21 pm
Im not a big fan of Taylor’s. Its a good video on youtube showcasing his handle and it is not pretty. He cant create his own shot. Its a good scouting video of him on youtube. Its also on draftexpress. His shooting percentages off the dribble was really really low. A lot of mocks have him falling to the second. Im not a fan of the center from Vandy either. A lot of mocks think he might be available in the second round too because of his injury history and terrible hands. He was also a poor rebounder
If Harkless falls thats who the Hawks should take. If he is gone then take Q Miller. I would love Cunningham in the second round.
DawgNole
June 26th, 2012
10:21 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
June 26th, 2012
3:51 pm
I would trade Marvin for MWP straight up, but I wouldn’t include the #23. MWP may be a serial criminal or whatever, but on a team full of nice guys, that may not be a bad thing.
____________________
It may not be a bad thing, but he’s no help to his team while he’s serving suspensions for assault.
cp
June 26th, 2012
10:21 pm
Dragic is a free agent so the Rockets might not be willing to trade Lowry because they dont know if they can bring Dragic back.
steven a smith
June 26th, 2012
10:23 pm
Mickael Petrus and Brandon Roy could solidify this bench for 3 years. Both are superb “Team Players”
PG Steve Nash/Teague/Machado
SG Joe Johnson/T-Mac
SF Petrus/Roy/Marvin
PF Thomas Robinson/ivan Johnson
C Zsa Zsa/Meyers Leonard
DawgNole
June 26th, 2012
10:23 pm
Dang, MC’s been a bloggin’ fool this week. I can’t get caught up with one before he shuts it down and moves on to the next. Not saying that’s a bad thing–just a bit different from customary.
cp
June 26th, 2012
10:26 pm
People not showing up to games if Josh is traded has become some sort of myth on here. People didnt come to games when the Hawks won 50 games. They didnt come when the Hawks had one of the best home records in the league. Even the Nique years has become a myth. I think someone posted the numbers once and the attendance was pretty much the same after the Nique trade but let some guys on here tell it folks stopped coming because Nique was no longer here which isnt true at all.
Wannabe hawks fan
June 26th, 2012
10:43 pm
I am so sick of hearing the Josh talk. Give me Carmelo for Joe and actually get a scorer in here. 22 mil for a guy that averages 19 pts a game is stupid and as far as that goes Marv and his 8 pts a game could go as well. Joe is the albatross around the hawks mech not Josh( one of the leagues better defenders). Carmelo and the nicks don’t see eye to eye and we need a scorer. Ou defense is fine until you remove Josh.
glw
June 26th, 2012
10:47 pm
@ SteveW
I agree with you, getting rid of Marvin is the key to the Hawks having cap flexibility. I think Ferry might hold off on a Josh trade wanting to learn the team a bit more before making any big moves.
As I have stated in previous blogs and as the Ben Gordon trade confirms, the only way to dump Marvin is to include an asset in the deal which might would be a future 1st rd pick.
One deal I would consider is:
Marvin for Jamal and a No.1 draft pick next year Jamal would give us a scorer off the bench and makes 3 million less which can go toward signing another quality player.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 26th, 2012
11:03 pm
“So Charlotte just picked up an extra lottery pick in a draft that will be very deep next season.”
That pick is lottery protected next season. The protection steadily erodes after that until 2016 when it is unprotected. So chances are Charlotte is going to get that pick 2 or 3 years from now.
High-sider
June 26th, 2012
11:12 pm
@Just Joe
“High-sider….Crawford opts out before free agency, so Hinrich can’t be used.
When it comes to Hinrich….Lakers need a PG. A Hinrich sign and trade for part of the Odom trade exception and a future pick would be outstanding.” – Just Joe @7:16pm dated 6/26/2012
Just Joe, thanks for the info.
—————————————————————————————–
@donte080
“re: Blazers “failed experiment” Ray Felton…..
Jamal Crawford was every bit a part of Portland’s bad season as anybody there…” – donte080 @7:43pm dated 6/26/2012
So what would you call Kirk Hinrich’s regular and post season scoring averages of 6.6ppg and 5.7ppg for the 2011-2012 campaign – “all that and a bag of chips”? No, you wouldn’t. If you (donte080) were (to be) honest, his (Hinrich’s) regular and post season performances this past season were lackluster at best.
Will
June 26th, 2012
11:59 pm
@ cp
Harkless didn’t show up for his workout with us because he got a promise from another team. We’d likely have to trade up for him.
http://www.scoreatl.com/stories/hawks-scout-crowder/
tjhook
June 26th, 2012
11:59 pm
Why is everybody so eager to break up this team?! The team played more consistently this season; the fatal flaw was not being able to maintain structure when they faced the top teams in the league. They especially had issues when games were close late because the two top talents fell back on bad habits: Iso-Joe for Johnson, long two-pointers from Smith. The Hawks need an on-court leader.
I am trying to state the case for Andre Miller. He is what the Hawks need and this link from the Bleacher Report says it almost better than I can. Mark Bradley- float this idea to Danny Ferry
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1236792-debating-the-most-overrated-nba-free-agents-on-the-market#/articles/1234491-2012-nba-free-agency-predicting-the-biggest-steal-at-every-position/page/2
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
12:04 am
Besides, we have been trying to fill the leadership void at point guard ever since the Hawks traded for Bibby in 2007. Miller is hungry enough and has enough status in the league to get all the players on the Hawks to follow his lead. And we won’t have to worry about Larry Drew playing politics with this guy because LD already has his issues with Teague.
DANNY FERRY- Please don’t trade the core yet! Give them a leader who can help us get to the next level. Andre Miller! Please don’t put JSmoove on a plane somewhere else- give the team a chance.
random
June 27th, 2012
12:13 am
tj hook its gonna be ok dont cry when they break them up haha
Will
June 27th, 2012
12:27 am
@tjhook
6 players currently under contract
VERY little cap space
the luxury tax for going over the cap is about to get much more punitive
no one wants Josh to leave without getting something for him
TMACfan
June 27th, 2012
12:46 am
hawks please take a long look at Wroten
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
12:54 am
@will,
it’s already been established that we will pick up an additional player in the draft. After that, we have the chance to bring in a player under the exception. That’s where we can bring in Miller. I just see it as being premature to break up a group that clearly had shaky performances at the point guard position. Along with coaching staffs that have had mixed results in constructing mature offenses.
I would like Ferry to at least look at the team and if he decides Smith is too valuable to release or a piece to trade then at least we can a get a pick for him in midseason. Larry Drew has not proven he can lead a team and we don’t need to let his trial period linger longer. Let him run his group one more time before deciding to break the deal.
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
12:56 am
Besides, Collins will want to come back and I think once again, we can get rotational players to fill in the roster out
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
1:00 am
@ random
You, my friend, I hope are wrong. Josh Smith is not the problem- he just hasn’t helped us get the final solution (on court leadership)
Grandad
June 27th, 2012
1:07 am
Two Danny Ferry type players [i.e.; San Antone]
he may consider at #23:
* Draymond Green;
A player with one of the most unique skill-sets in the NCAA,
Mich State’s D.Green is a college Center
with the height of a small forward, the passing skills of a point guard,
the rebounding tenacity of a power forward
and the scoring repertoire of an old school pivot.
However, Green’s best attributes clearly revolve around
his phenomenal basketball IQ.
(*!*) also (*!*)
* Doron Lamb:
49% of his 5.3 three point field goal attempts per 40 minutes adjusted,
which technically ranks him as the best shooter in college basketball.
[*last season / 2012]
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
1:08 am
this link, I hope, sheds some light on why I think we are close to a breakthrough with the current roster.
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2012/5/22/3037699/is-it-a-coaching-issue-or-a-player-decision-making-issue
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
1:08 am
Could you please bring this concern to Danny Ferry’s attention, MC?
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
June 27th, 2012
1:39 am
Hawks Blog Legeng Worldwide Clyde
June 26th, 2012
6:22 pm
We need a center that can come in and block shots more than a wing or a backup point. Festus Ezeli is all about protecting the rim not moving out the way when people drive to the hole.
We haven’t had a center since Mutombo left and now is our time to get one. Horford, Collins, and Dampier ain’t gonna cut anymore.
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
3:42 am
MC, I read this link about a summer roster addition. What are the Hawks’ people saying behind the scenes?
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
3:43 am
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1200957-atlanta-hawks-latest-trade-rumors-free-agent-news-draft-buzz#/articles/1200957-atlanta-hawks-latest-trade-rumors-free-agent-news-draft-buzz/page/7
will
June 27th, 2012
7:32 am
Not true, when nique was in his prime with the hawks, the old omni arena was the place to be, packed every home gm.
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
7:58 am
I think people get too hung up on whether or not a guy drafted at #23 can create his own shot. Can Sefolosha create his own shot? Can Battier create his own shot? I’m not saying Taylor should be the pick, but I wouldn’t hold it against him not being able to create his own shot.
FWIW, On espn first take, Chad Ford said the biggest sleeper outisde of the lottery is…Draymond Green.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
8:10 am
@tjhook,
Im loving this whole response from the article u posted at 1:08am
“I think coaching definitely plays a role, but saying it is a coaching issue only is absolving Josh Smith too much, IMO. Josh has to know his limitations as a player and play within himself, and he simply doesn’t. I’m of the opinion that there may be no coach outside of Greg Popovich possibly that could get Josh to play within himself. Josh, right now, has an intense desire to expand his game, even if it means playing outside of the scheme, so to speak.
Larry’s problem here, IMO, is when Josh does this, there is no discipline taken. However, you let Jeff Teague or Ivan Johnson do something that he doesn’t like, and he comes down on them with an iron fist.
What I would be interested in seeing is how the efficiency distribution would change if Al Horford was more of a focal point in the offense. Unlike Josh Smith, Al Horford hits perimeter jumpers at a high clip. I’d be interested in seeing a nice little two man game between Al and Joe with Joe playing in the post some with Al as a high post. I think it could be reminiscent of the way we played with Steve Smith as a post up guard with Christian Laettner as a high post perimeter shooter. That combo was very good.
by KB21 on May 23, 2012 8:59 AM EDT
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
8:34 am
Someone asked who would we like the Hawks drafting at #23..My 3 choices are Jeff Taylor, Draymond Green, or Festus Ezeli. Any one of those guys I would be OK with drafting. Now if Royce or Andrew Nick drops, then have at it!!
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
8:36 am
My ideal choice would be Draymond cause he can do multiple things PLUS is has a BIG BASKETBALL IQ!! Thats a huge bonus!
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
8:43 am
Marc James: NBA Source just told me the Bobcats will probably trade the 2nd pick. This is gonna be an Exhilirating 48 hours for Charlotte. Same NBA Source told me Michael Jordan is giving Rich Cho Full Autonomy on Trades, Draft Decisions, Free Agency, etc. Things are looking up..Twitter
vava74
June 27th, 2012
8:47 am
Tony Wroten said to Hawks TV that as a youngster, he admired Penny Hardaway and more recently, Tyreke Evans, John Wall and Russell Westbrook.
Of the Hawks, he admires Josh’s athleticism and JJ’s scoring.
He is obviously a ME first kind of guy, which, is not necessarily bad, but when you already have a roster with two ME first guys (Josh and JJ)… we may be looking at a bad fit, even if came out at a good level.
vava74
June 27th, 2012
8:50 am
Draymond seems to have a very good attitude: spoke about managing to graduate in the middle of the work outs, spoke about his maturity being a plus and about being being able to fit anywhere and contribute in any role.
brigadierjerry
June 27th, 2012
8:52 am
ms dee,
it wass me who asked hawks fans who are ur top 5 choices that u want hawks to pick
vava74
June 27th, 2012
8:53 am
Jeffrey Taylor sounded a bit introvert and shy, which probably will slow his adaptation to the NBA.
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
8:53 am
I don’t think Orlando is in a position of strength, because everybody knows Dwight wants out, he is coming off back surgery, and he only has one year left on his deal.
Therefore, I think Houston will be able to put together the best package for him (better than the Nets). Orlando can probably choose from a combination of Dalembert, #14, #16, #18, Kevin Martin, Scola, and Lowry.
But if I’m the Hawks, I would get it in on it. Give me Dalembert and Lowry for Josh. I know Dalembert and Zaza will both be free agents one year from now, but I think they can both be resigned, since they will split the center minutes almost 50-50 (imo).
That would leave Kevin Martin, Scola, and picks 14, 16, and 18 to work out a deal with Orlando. And Houston would still have the cap space to sign Deron Williams.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
8:53 am
Marc James: NBA Source just told me the Bobcats will probably trade the 2nd pick. This is gonna be a an Exhilirating 48 hours for Charlotte. #Bobcats Twitter
Draft question for the day: Would you trade both Josh and JJ for the #2 draft pick? We could then draft Bradley Beal who I think will be great in the NBA to replace JJ and then draft a SF at #23. With money freed up, we could get some really good quality free agents to fill in at available positions. So what do yall blog family think??
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
8:56 am
Obviously I would love to trade Al and Joe for Dwight, but I don’t think Orlando wants any part of JJ’s contract.
Imagine Josh and Dwight in Houston together? They are coached by McHale, and with Olajuwon and his Houston ties, I think we would see an immediate improvement in both of their low post games.
vava74
June 27th, 2012
8:57 am
Festus sounded good too. Seemed to be a very mature guy and, as you expect from a defensive player, a team first guy.
Though, coming from Nigeria there is the possibility that he is 30 years old already…
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
9:03 am
Oh..ok brigadierjerry,
KevinM
June 27th, 2012
9:08 am
Ezeli has Dampier hands…..ez on the guaranteed contract there.
I gotta think at 23 you go get you some shooters in this draft….they are out there….Lamb, Jenkins….if you could wrangle Terrance Ross away from Milwaukee at 12.
I’m not necessarily looking for Joe’s replacement, but you gotta start looking in that direction. Without Joe, we really don’t have a shooter on this roster. Marvin doesn’t qualify for filling a need here.
Move Josh, Joe and Marvin, and Ferry will have the majority’s backing. Move Josh because he isn’t going back to the blocks.
KevinM
June 27th, 2012
9:09 am
I would like to hear we flirted with Charlotte or Sac’s pick before time runs out.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
9:24 am
Guys, the sleeper of the draft that I see Ferry going for, is Fournier. He’s a 6′7 wing who can handle the ball like a PG, great at penetrating and pick and roll. He struggles on his jump shot, but we all know that is a skill that can be taught much easier than ball handling. He’s also the youngest prospect in the draft. You add a jump shot and he’s a top 10 pick.
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
9:27 am
The reason #2 is available is because there isn’t a “guaranteed” future All-Star after Anthony Davis.
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
9:33 am
Ra’mon, Wroten is an inch shorter than Fournier but sounds like a similar player. I’m not bumping for Wroten as much as trying to figure out why his stock is so low (and when draft picks were required to have functional jumpers from day 1).
cp, at #23, we’re not going to get a finished product. All of them will have a few things to develop as pros. So it seems like you draft based on adding a ready-for-the-NBA skill set plus the upside if that player develops the other skills.
Pendergraft’s comments about Taylor almost sound like he has never evaluated a wing defender before. How is it that he doesn’t know if being an exceptional defender in college translates to the NBA? Shouldn’t he know that?
vava74
June 27th, 2012
9:41 am
AJ,
Zone D makes good defensive players look better than they actually are on more open game situations.
vava74
June 27th, 2012
9:42 am
… and Zone D is more extensively used in College than in the NBA due to inferior ability/technical preparation/coaching in College allowing it to be more effective.
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
9:45 am
Ra’mon,
Do you think Josh looks at Marvin and his $8.3 mil contract for this year and wonders why ownership doesn’t amnesty him to free up some salary? If the Hawks amnesty Marvin, that gives them ~$5 mil in salary cap space. I think $5 mil can go along way. JR Smith and Randy Foye are rumored to be in the $3 mil range each, Steve Nash may be in the $5 mil range, Ray Allen maybe.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
9:52 am
I say give the Bobcats JJ and Josh for #2 and draft Bradley..that dude is a 2nd coming of Wade! Hay, Ferry is here for 6yrs to INCREASE on what we have accomplished already WHILE making smart financial moves for the future at the same time. Moving JJ huge contract off the books would be a great accomplishment right there cause it can give us great cap space to get some top name free agents to the A-T-L. Moving Josh is just as great cause it then gives Teague room to be the future PG I envision him to become and it also give Horford his due position at PF. If giving the Bobcats both JJ and Josh is too much, then Give them JJ, Marvin & #23 and move Josh to the Rockets for a Center in Dalembert and a PG in Lowery. This would be the trades of the draft, in my book!!
Ray
June 27th, 2012
9:53 am
In no order
Draymond Green, Jeff Taylor, Andrew Nicholson, Moe Harkless some people said he can drop that far, and Festus.
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
9:53 am
Some people get hung up on the Hawks center position. Who was the starting center for the Miami Heat (who just won the championship)? Who was the center for OKC? What was their numbers?
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
9:56 am
MsDee,
That’s a bad deal for the Hawks. We would be left with Horford, Zaza, Marvin, #2 pick, #23 pick, and Teague.
Also, with Charlotte just trading for Ben Gordon, I dont think they want JJ. Also, Josh only has one year left on his deal, and will NOT resign with Charlotte, so I dont think they will take him either.
The only move I think Charlotte would take is Horford for #2. But I dont like that deal for the Hawks.
Ray
June 27th, 2012
9:57 am
You giving up too much @MsDee for an unproven draft choice although it’s known I don’t like Joe too much anymore I’m not willing to give him and Josh both away just for #2 and Bobcats don’t really have a whole lot on the roster I like.
Just Joe
June 27th, 2012
9:58 am
Our draft pick, assuming no trades, will likely be determined today when Lamb, Jenkins, and Fournier come in for one last workout.
Also, I like Darius Miller just as much as Jeff Taylor. Miller will be back in today as well.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
10:00 am
AJ, they’re actually very similar in their shot selection. But Fournier is reportedly better in his passing and turn over numbers in a PROFESSIONAL league.
O’B, I think Josh looked at Sund and wondered why they didn’t trade Marvin for Shaq two seasons ago, when Cleveland wanted to do a sign and trade with Shaq for Marvin. But I am confident that Ferry will not enter the regular season with Marvin on the roster. And I would rather see the Hawks Amnesty Marvin’s contract and not end up paying much in luxury tax, than to keep Marvin and end up paying Luxury tax.
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
10:10 am
OB, sounds like you buy into the “Josh just wants to win” thing.
Vava, starts with the All-Defensive teams from the ACC, Big East, SEC, Big 12, Pac 12, etc. Find the best wing defenders from those lists and check their college film to ensure that they were playing man-to-man. Then, check and see if they were solid defenders in the NBA. Pretty simple. Did Afflalo play man-to-man at UCLA? If so, there is a sample. Tony Douglas was the ACC Defensive Player of the Year, does he defend well with the Knicks? There’s another example. Shumpert at GA Tech, same Knicks team. Ronnie Brewer at Arkansas. Sorry, it wouldn’t take too much work to draw a conclusion one way or the other.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
10:15 am
OB,
Thats why I also said, “If giving the Bobcats both JJ and Josh is too much, then Give them JJ, Marvin & #23 and move Josh to the Rockets for a Center in Dalembert and a PG in Lowery.”
U said, “That’s a bad deal for the Hawks. We would be left with Horford, Zaza, Marvin, #2 pick, #23 pick, and Teague.”
And thats why I said, “Moving JJ huge contract off the books would be a great accomplishment right there cause it can give us great cap space to get some top name free agents to the A-T-L.”
Just Joe
June 27th, 2012
10:15 am
Charlotte doesn’t have the cap space to do Al for #2 straight up, and I would not want any of their bad contracts. I think Sacramento at #5 is the first option to get in to the top 10.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
10:16 am
But all in all, I hear what ya saying
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
10:17 am
Just Joe,
If we should get #5, who would u draft?
Ray
June 27th, 2012
10:17 am
The only reason I don’t want to draft a foreigner is because of our track record I’ll leave that to teams like Spurs and what not as they actually develop those players.
Unless we get a Head Coach that will developer these players instead of sitting them every chance he gets.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
10:19 am
Im surprised we arent hearing any buzz around the league considering the fact that we are gonna have to do something b4 or on draft day for Ferry to show us Hawks fans he is serious about making some serious changes to this team and organization.
Just Joe
June 27th, 2012
10:22 am
MsDee….at 5, I’d have to take Drummond, or take MKG and see if I could trade back with Golden State for the 7 and 30, and then take Drummond at 7. It’s been too long since we’ve had a dominant big man. I’d take that chance, and then grab a shooter late in the draft.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
10:24 am
MsDee, if you have #5, the choice is out of MKG and Waiters. However, I would stretch for the one guy I know has a high basketball IQ and grew up wanting to play for the Hawks, and draft Rivers. The guy is 6′5 and not afraid of the big shot or the big moment. He just seems to have that it factor where you just know he’s going to be a champion one day. Teague – Rivers – Joe would be so balance in skills set.
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
10:36 am
MsDee, and if Ferry doesn’t show Hawks fans anything in the next 36 hours, then what? Maybe Hawks fans shouldn’t expect big changes within 96 hours of a guy getting the job?
WVU HAWKS
June 27th, 2012
10:50 am
I think that this is the year to breakup the core and free up some cap space. The best trade chip we have is Josh Smith and if Houston wants him and is willing to give up their #14 and #18 pick for them, I so go for it. I also think that we try to trade Marvin to the Cavs for their #24 or #33 & #34 picks. Then we can start rebuilding this team via the draft and still have a competative team while doing so. The following is whom we could draft:
#14 – Meyers Leonard (C), Terrence Ross (SG/SF), Jereemy Lamd (SG), or Perry Jones III (SF/PF)
#18 – Terrence Jones (SF/PF), Kendall Marshall (PG), Moe Harkless (SF), Festus Ezeli (C), Andrew Nicholson (PF),
#23 – Daron Lamb (SG), Toney Worton Jr (PG), Jason Taylor (SF)
#33, #34, #43 – Quincy Miller (SF), John Jenkins (SG), Miles Plumlee (C), Kris Joseph (SF), Alex Young (SG/SF), Scott Machado (PG)
Example:
#14 – Leonard (C)
#18 – Terrence Jones (SF/PF)
#23 – Worton Jr (PG)
#33 – John Jenkins (SG),
#34 – Miles Plumlee (C),
#43 – Alex Young (SG/SF)
Starters:
PG – Teague
SG- Joe Johnson
SF – Terrence Jones
PF- Hofford
C- Leonard
Bench:
PG – Worton
SG – Jenkins and Lightly (FA)
SF- Young and FA
PF – I. Johnson and Benson
C – ZaZa and Plumlee
Young atheltic team and can grom together and still have leadership.
What do you think?
Many options in draft.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
10:54 am
I wonder what it would take to get the 11th pick from Portland and to use it to draft Zeller. Portland have two lottery picks, and could very well be looking to trade the lower 1st round pick they have.
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
10:56 am
AJ,
I think there is more to it than “Josh just wants to win”. But with a new GM (coming from the Spurs no less), and what sounds like ownership finally getting out of the way, and making some kind of commitment, there may be opportunities to work on some of the concerns Josh may have (besides just winning).
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
10:58 am
Ra’mon,
What’s your take on the Dalembert and Lowry for Josh trade that somebody proposed?
BIG DOG
June 27th, 2012
11:02 am
You guys making some horrible decision with your trade, Hawks would be at the bottom back to 20 wins or less a season, I BE DAM.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
11:03 am
OB, I think Josh needs a hug and didn’t get one from Hawks execs. The wayhis contract was handled, feeling like he didn’t get support for the All Star game, being disproportionately blamed for bad basketball plays, etc. And all of that is personal stuff, not at all team related. Change all 13 players around him and those concerns potentially still exist. What happens if the Hawks extend Teague without making him sign an offer sheet?
BIG DOG
June 27th, 2012
11:06 am
Dalembert is a bust and Lowry a career FG .420
SMH
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Stephen
June 27th, 2012
11:14 am
Michael, thank you so much for the fantastic Q&A with Levenson. He answered everything and really sounded contrite.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
11:20 am
O’Brien, for me it would take Lowery and their two draft picks, not Dalembert. I really don’t think that is enough value for Josh in Lowery and Dalembert. I think with Lowery and Dalembert, you’re going to be looking to find a way to score points, as neither are consistent scorers. The fact that Josh provides consistent scoring, rebounding, and elite defense, you want to make sure you get at least two of those back in a deal.
Melvin
June 27th, 2012
11:22 am
” Can Sefolosha create his own shot? Can Battier create his own shot?” – OB
Look at how those guys play next to, Leborn/Wade/Bosh and Durant/Westbrook/Harden. Those guys get wide open shots b/c they play next to superstars. If Sefolosha made his shots, OKC may have played a game 7 in OKC.
Just Joe
June 27th, 2012
11:23 am
Don’t forget that Houston owns the rights to Donatas Montiejunas. That’s a valuable trade chip.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 27th, 2012
11:26 am
“He is obviously a ME first kind of guy, which, is not necessarily bad, but when you already have a roster with two ME first guys (Josh and JJ)… we may be looking at a bad fit, even if came out at a good level.”
At #23 I don’t think you can worry too much about this. In the Hawks’ current situation, where they may be a year away from three of their highest paid players no longer being on the roster, I especially don’t think you can worry too much about this.
Best player available. Doesn’t matter if he’s me-first, can’t create his own shot, doesn’t fit well with other players on the team, or whatever. Best player available. I have no idea whether or not Wroten is that guy, but best player available should be the pick, regardless of position. “Fit” shouldn’t matter at all, especially since any player drafted probably isn’t going to start this year anyway unless he’s a small forward.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 27th, 2012
11:27 am
“Draft question for the day: Would you trade both Josh and JJ for the #2 draft pick? We could then draft Bradley Beal who I think will be great in the NBA to replace JJ and then draft a SF at #23. With money freed up, we could get some really good quality free agents to fill in at available positions. So what do yall blog family think??”
This is a very interesting idea. My biggest problem with it, though, is I’d rather not trade them to a team that the Hawks will play four times a year if I can avoid it. But I do like Beal a lot, and Teague-Beal-Horford would be a solid and affordable core to build around.
Melvin
June 27th, 2012
11:27 am
I don’t want any parts of Houston players. They are mediocre. Hawks would only swap places in mediocrity land with the Rockets if they trade for their players. I like the Rockets draft picks but I don’t like their players.
John Jenkins is no more than a stand still shooter. I would not use a 1st round pick on him. I would choose the guy with the best potential at #23 and use free agency/trades to address the remaining roster spots.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 27th, 2012
11:29 am
“He struggles on his jump shot, but we all know that is a skill that can be taught much easier than ball handling.”
I don’t know if this is necessarily true. Any former coaches out there care to weigh in on this? Seems to me like both can be developed with practice.
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
11:30 am
Ra’mon, Al and Josh (when both healthy) average around 18 boards/game together. I think Al and Dalembert could do the same. If they fall a little short, Lowry is probably the second best rebounder at PG in the league (second to Rondo only) and could easily give you 1-2 more than Teague. Horford and Josh probably average 4-5 blocks/game… I think Dalembert and Horford can do that. One player won’t re-produce the 15-18 pints you would lose, but that is where the other guys pick up the slack.
Said differently, if we trade Al or Joe for a player who doesn’t score what they score, everyone will expect the remaining players to get more FGAs to pick up the slack. That is what happens. It happened last year when Al went down and if we keep Josh and he suffers a bad injury, someone will take more shots to replace that offense.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 27th, 2012
11:30 am
“I don’t want any parts of Houston players. They are mediocre. Hawks would only swap places in mediocrity land with the Rockets if they trade for their players. I like the Rockets draft picks but I don’t like their players.”
Co-sign. The only Houston player I would want is Lowry, and the Hawks already have a younger and cheaper player at his position with a ceiling at least as high.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
11:36 am
Another thing about Josh. I think Josh will see how Lebron dominated the Finals with his post up and driving the lane, and use that for motivation. I see Josh averaging 21 ppg and 10.4 rpg next season no matter what uniform he has on. Now we need to realize that if Josh produces those numbers, that will be the best individual season we’ve seen since Dominique was here.
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
11:40 am
Ms. Dee,
Thanks for checking out the links. I can see why you attached yourself to the quote that says Smith can undermind a staff. THAT is why Andre Miller or a strong veteran point guard is an appropriate response. Smoove can’t undermind a guy who is too skilled and smart to challenge. If you have a guy who been there, done that AND can still get his own shot there is less of a need for Smith’s “heroics”. Smith would be resigned to get along or get gone.
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
11:41 am
Najeh,
The player I wanted from Houston got traded. Budinger would have been a good pairing with Teague. Teague could do a lot of draw and kick with Budinger’s perimeter skills. Also would have been available for offensive rebounding.
BIG DOG
June 27th, 2012
11:43 am
A trade i would make if im GM
1. Josh for Brook Lopez
This trade make sense for both team, since Josh is being rumor to go Brooklyn why not trade him there, plus this trade would put more secure for Nets in keeping D william.
2. Josh for Rudy Gay
Will Josh sign and extension if traded here that the big ?
3. Josh and #23 for Tyreke #5
This trade make since because Josh could be the center piece and Mayor for Kings with a new Stadium.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
11:44 am
Najeh, Take Al for example. When he came in the league he had a questionable mid range game and questionable handles. Now he has a mid range game, and questionable handles. There’s a fluid motion in dribbling and ball handling that a player should have by the time they reach the NBA. So many players are so quick or jump so high that they never have to shoot jumpers in high school or college, because they can get to the rim so easily. But no matter what level of basketball you’re in, you can’t do anything with out dribbling and handling the ball. So if after playing basketball for over 8-10 years, you still can’t dribble or handle the ball well, then the chances of that being coached are very slim to none. That’s why you hear about so many shooting coaches on NBA staffs, but never hear of a ‘ball handling’ coach’. 700 jumpers a day can improve your jump shot efficiently over a summer. Ball handling and dribbling takes years to develop at a pg/sg skill set level.
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
11:46 am
Ra’mon,
No way Houston is giving up Lowry and 2 first round picks for what might be one year of Josh Smith, and if I was Houston, I wouldn’t either.
Lowry averaged 14 pts, 7 assists, and 5 rebs per game last year. And with Josh gone, that means Teague/Lowry would have more opportunities to lead the fast break (especially with Lowry being a good rebounder).
Down low, our rotation would be Dalembert/Zaza, and Horford/Ivan. And with Lowry or Teague coming off the bench, our bench would be strengthened immediately, because both of those guys are better than Willie Green and Pargo.
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
11:47 am
Cultural change. Lowry is exactly the kind of player the Hawks need to help drive cultural change. And he can coexist with Teague. But he would bring some things that Teague does not.
If you admire the Spurs and Thunder, then you have to consider that on-court talent is not the one and only way to evaluate players and build a roster.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
11:49 am
So tjhook,
You want Andre Miller to come in and take over Teague’s position?
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
11:50 am
AJ, I don’t think Dalembert would average 9 plus rebounds. And I don’t think his and Al’s defense would be as good as Josh and Al’s. The thing that is underrated about Josh is he manages to block and alter so many shots while staying out of foul trouble. Dalembert isn’t as adapt to that when he gets his blocks. I’ve been lobbying for Dalembert for two seasons. But never to replace Josh. You trade Josh for Lowery and Dalembert, its deeper than just losing scoring. You only have one or two players who can consistently create their own shots (Joe and Teague). That is not enough when you get to a half court set and a play needs to be made. Josh stepped up with more attempts with the subtraction of JC and Al, because he could still manage to create his own shot and scoring. Lowery isn’t the pick and pop type of guy with Al, because his jumper isn’t that great right now. I’m for trading Josh or anyone on the team if it makes the team better. But I really don’t believe Dalembert and Lowery makes the team better. If they did, why would Houston be willing to trade them for ONE player who only has one year left on his contract, in hopes that he re-signs.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
11:51 am
“This is a very interesting idea. My biggest problem with it, though, is I’d rather not trade them to a team that the Hawks will play four times a year if I can avoid it. But I do like Beal a lot, and Teague-Beal-Horford would be a solid and affordable core to build around.”
Dang Najeh, I love the sound of that, Teague-Beal-Horford..WOW!!
BIG DOG
June 27th, 2012
11:52 am
The trade i like the most since Josh is rumor to play in Brooklyn.
Josh for Lopez
Teague, Gerald Green, Joe, Horford, Lopez
Pargo, #23 Jefferey Taylor, Marvin, Ivan, Zaza
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Najeh Davenpoop
June 27th, 2012
11:53 am
“Take Al for example. When he came in the league he had a questionable mid range game and questionable handles. Now he has a mid range game, and questionable handles. ”
I strongly disagree with the suggestion that Al has questionable handles. For a player at his size and his position I can’t think of anyone else in the league who handles the ball better. Maybe Dirk, but that’s about it. Al’s weakness is shot creation and post skills, not ball handling.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
11:53 am
BIg Dog,
Please, NO MARVIN ANYWHERE
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
11:55 am
Melvin,
Dalembert averaged 8 pts, 7 rebs, and 2 blocks in 22 mpg last year with Houston (with career averages of 8,8 and 2 in 26 mpg), and you think he is mediocre? Zaza averaged 8 and 8 and 0.5 blocks in 28 mpg last year.
I think Dalembert and Zaza can combine for 15 pts, 15 rebs from the center position in 48 minutes).
Najeh,
Imagine how much stronger your bench would be with Teague or Lowry running the second unit.
One thing I would add is in addition to a trade, I would also amnesty Marvin Williams.
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
11:56 am
Ra’mon,
One reason Houston wants Josh is because that would make the chances of re-signing Howard more likely.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 27th, 2012
11:58 am
ESPN Stats & Info @ESPNStatsInfo
Of the 125 players who defended at least 75 post-up plays this season, Andre Drummond allowed the fewest points per play. #NBADraft
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So if nothing else, he is at least as good as Jason Collins.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
11:58 am
I think Al HAS post moves, he nor us has the opportunities to see many of them cause Josh is at the top of the key jacking up jumpers. Also, we would see more of Al’s post moves if Drew would run more plays thru him. This is one reason why Josh must be moved cause if I was Josh, yea, I would want more plays run thru me as well but having 2 ALLSTAR (Josh being one) PF’s wanting and needing the ball makes for a disaster in the long run.
BIG DOG
June 27th, 2012
12:04 pm
This trade could happen only if Josh sign and extension.
Josh for Rudy
Teague, Joe, Rudy, Horford, Zaza
Pargo, Gerald Green, Marvin, Ivan, #23 Fab Melo
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Jake
June 27th, 2012
12:09 pm
This draft is tricky because witch ever guy we draft will decide the lineup outcome. Draft a SF, then Al will play at the center position. Draft a C, Al will play at the PF position. Considering Al is a much better PF than a center, i say the hawks need to draft a C. I think we should trade Marvin to move up in the draft to get a guy like Meyers Leonard. If not go with a guy like Fab melo. Then if this lineup dosnt look like it can win a championship by mid season. We have no choice but to deal Smoove but a guy like Royce white could be a guy like Paul Pierce….Tough choice.
1.Teague
2.Johnson
3.Smith
4.Horford
5.Melo/Leonard
or
1.Teague
2.Johnson
3.White
4.Smith
5.Horford
BIG DOG
June 27th, 2012
12:09 pm
This trade make since for Josh he would become the Mayor and center piece for Kings with a new Stadium.
Josh and #23 for Tyreke and #5 Andre Drummond.
Teague, Tyreke, Joe, Horford, #5 Andre Drummond
Pargo, Gerald Green, Marvin, Ivan, Zaza
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Grandad
June 27th, 2012
12:12 pm
Najeh
“He struggles on his jump shot,
but we all know that is a skill that can be taught
much easier than ball handling.”
‘`Any former coaches out there care to weigh in on this?`’
Incorrect !
If one could be taught to shoot:
everyone would be Ray Allen;
Josh would be all-world on [game] experience alone;
D.howard would be an adept FT shooter.
Compare & Contrast:
*Ballhandling – anyone and everyone can improve their basic ballhandling;
footwork, passing, eyes, catching [not necessarily hands], stance,
staying low, fundamentals, etc.
**Still – one can never acquire elite pg skill as far as pure instincts.
*Shooting – one can do all the above, but, one can never reach elite
status as a shooter if the hand eye coordination is simply not there.
note – It`s much, much more than [just] hand eye coordination as well.
A dedicated player can spend hrs in the gym and improve his/her shot,
but if it ain`t there it just ain`t there.
I`ve seen players with the most beautiful stroke in the world;
but it just won`t go in the basket.
I`ve seen others with an ugly shot …and they don`t miss.
Kinda like being an elite pg; either one has it or not.
However, one can be an excellent ballhandler and -not-
be an elite pg. The entire SA Spurs team [sans Danny Green]
comes to mind.
I am a professional Shooting Instructor:
I can improve anyone`s shot … to a point.
An example:
Josh Smith`s problem begins with his feet.
Josh`s whole problem is he doesn`t prepare to shoot
until after he catches the ball.
… skip to my point …
I could fix all that and improve Josh`s jumper !
Josh would still be Josh;
he would still need to shoot from 16 ft and in.
Plus he will / would never be Dirk Nowitski, regardless.
_____________________________________________
Najeh
My apologies – I realize that was a bit wordy.
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
12:18 pm
By the way, I am a BIG Josh Smith fan. I recognize his flaws, but I love his skill set.
The Real cp
June 27th, 2012
12:18 pm
The blog monster doesnt like me today
The Real cp
June 27th, 2012
12:21 pm
I guess I have to change my name to post.. Well Melvin made the point I wanted to make in regards to Battier and Sefalosha. Ra’mon also made a great point about not enough guys who can create their own shot. Check out the video of Taylor showcasing his ballhandling. It makes Marvin look like Iverson. Also check out his numbers when shooting off the dribble. The numbers are not pretty.
Harkless, Q Miller, Nicholson, and Perry Jones (if he falls) are the guys I like at 23. I wouldnt be mad if they took Wroten.. In the second round I like Lamb, Cunningham, Thompson from Georgetown, and Machado.
darrell starks
June 27th, 2012
12:23 pm
BIG DOG, You always hating on Josh, with a new GM give him a chance and try keep this team together.
1. TEAGUE 23YEARS
2. JOSH 26YEARS
3. HORFORD 25YEARS
4. ZAZA 28YEARS
5. JOE 30YEARS
6. MARVIN 25YEARS
Stop hating Big Dog the Hawks are still young.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tjhook
June 27th, 2012
12:23 pm
Ms Dee,
Andre is 36 so that is a bit unreasonable. But Miller played behind Ty Lawson last year and said he was comfortable on the bench as long as the team was a championship contender. I primarily think he can teach everybody on the roster how to execute teamwork consistently and help them achieve a greater level of trust in one another. I want them to get what the Celtics have. The Celtics were depleted and old but they stay true to their offensive philosophy; when you play together it’s hard for someone to beat you because discipline and patient are necessary.
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
12:24 pm
Ra’mon, I am not assuming that the first roster change Ferry makes is the last one. If he trades Joe, that won’t likely be the end of his roster make-over and same with Josh. I don’t think we should expect a single magic transaction to fix all that ails the Hawks. Josh’s rebounding numbers increased with Al’s absence. Not a knock on Josh, that is just the way rebounding numbers typically work. That is why I suggested what guys typically do when together… Al and Josh are typically 18/game and yes, I absolutely believe that can be replicated with Sam and Al. Same with blocks. Here’s my guess, if Josh and D12 ever play together on a team, one of them will see a fairly sizeable drop in their average blocks/game. If they average around 6-7 on separate teams now, I’d predict 4-5 if they play together.
Tim
June 27th, 2012
12:24 pm
I really think the hawks should look into possibly getting the georgetown big man Henry Sims.He’s pretty good from the games i seen him play in,he really moves well and solid.I think the Hawks had him for a workout last weekend..nobody seems to be really mentioning anything about him.
darrell starks
June 27th, 2012
12:26 pm
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, ZAZA
BENCH PARGO, GERALD GREEN, MARVIN, IVAN, FAB MELO
RESERVE GREEN, ERIC GRIFFIN, COLLINS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jake
June 27th, 2012
12:29 pm
Get Royce White
http://boston.sbnation.com/boston-celtics/2012/6/25/3116303/2012-nba-draft-rumors-royce-white-boston-celtics-promise
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
12:30 pm
Ra’mon, and OB nailed it, Josh is Dwight bait. They are willing to trade for Josh to lure D12 now (or next summer). And they have nothing else to lose at this point as they are stuck in a worse position than the Hawks, in that 7-10 slot in their conference. This is like when a major college offers a football scholarship to a very good high school player because he is best friends with the state’s very best player. I doubt seriously that Houston believes that Josh gets them from that 7-10 area to 4-7. He won’t (by himself).
PEDRO EL GITANO
June 27th, 2012
12:30 pm
Tener a Roy y JJ en el mismo equipo sería horrible de ver.Respecto a la elecciones del draft creo que Fab Melo y Kris Josehp sería unas adquisiciones muy buenas.GO FERRY GO!!!!
Hugo
June 27th, 2012
12:30 pm
I see some people having Horford traded. All I can say is if they trade him the Hawk franschise needs to be dismantled. He is one of the very few draft picks they made that actually was good.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
12:30 pm
O’B, if they wouldn’t than I wouldn’t take that deal. And Houston is saying they will go after Josh IF THEY CAN’T get D12, not in addition.
The Real cp
June 27th, 2012
12:31 pm
Add Kyle O’Quinn as a guy I like in the second. I think he will turn out better than some centers that are going in the first.
Jake
June 27th, 2012
12:32 pm
Wait…….does anybody know what happened to Damion James??
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
12:33 pm
AJ, I know what you’re saying. I’m just saying I don’t like the deal. lol.
Jake
June 27th, 2012
12:34 pm
I mean Kieth Benson*********
Melvin
June 27th, 2012
12:35 pm
OB,
Not sure it as simple as taking ZaZa/Dalembert numbers and just combine them. Especially on offense b/c neither guy has a low post game. Nor do I see playing those two together. They don’t compliment each other.
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
12:38 pm
Tim, we’re talked about Sims in the past as a 2nd round pick. I REALLY hope that the Hawks grab him (or Hollis Thompson) in the 2nd round. It looks like they may both be available around #43. (Hollis may be more Ferry-like than Sims).
Jake
June 27th, 2012
12:38 pm
Oh yeah thats right. The hawks made a dumbass move and cut Benson when Al and Zaza got hurt and Benson is kicking ass….Way to go hawks…way to go
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2012/3/24/2899329/keith-benson-nba-golden-state-warriors
falcon912fan
June 27th, 2012
12:44 pm
Ferry will definitely do better than Sund. He did well in Cleveland and San Antonio. I know I’m new here and just dreaming, But listen to these trades: What if Ginobli wants to start…Trade J Johnson for Manu!!! Then trade Josh Smith and Marvin Williams to NJ for a draft pick, Brook Lopez and Gerald Wallace. The Nets will definitely do it to entice Dwight Howard to come this year or defintely next year. Think of our lineup… PG Jeff Teague SG Manu SF Gerald Wallace PF Horford C B. Lopez. Bench players PG Pargo SG (draft or bring back Crawford or even JR Smith) SG McGrady PF Ivan the terrible C Za Za.
Wow!!!! What do you guys think??? I’m just a high school basketball coach but I could even coach this lineup…
Hey Danny, do this and hire me as an assistant!!!!!!
falcon912fan
June 27th, 2012
12:44 pm
Ferry will definitely do better than Sund. He did well in Cleveland and San Antonio. I know I’m new here and just dreaming, But listen to these trades: What if Ginobli wants to start…Trade J Johnson for Manu!!! Then trade Josh Smith and Marvin Williams to NJ for a draft pick, Brook Lopez and Gerald Wallace. The Nets will definitely do it to entice Dwight Howard to come this year or defintely next year. Think of our lineup… PG Jeff Teague SG Manu SF Gerald Wallace PF Horford C B. Lopez. Bench players PG Pargo SG (draft or bring back Crawford or even JR Smith) SG McGrady PF Ivan the terrible C Za Za.
Wow!!!! What do you guys think??? I’m just a high school basketball coach but I could even coach this lineup…
Hey Danny, do this and hire me as an assistant!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 27th, 2012
12:46 pm
The more i look at how much Talent LD and Woody have wasted i continue SMH.
Danny need to fire LD now, and not waste another year, this guy can’t coach or evaluate talent.
Go Keith Benson do your thing.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
12:48 pm
Ra’mon, I appreciate your honesty. lol.
I think Houston is willing to gamble that if they acquire Josh in the next day, that D12 will consider signing a free agent contract with them in July, 2013 AFTER Josh tells him how great the experience was in Houston. So even if they don’t get Orlando to trade him now, they could influence Howard directly when he becomes a UFA. And if Josh doesn’t like it and D12 won’t come, then they have a ton of cap space (Kevin Martin’s contract expires) and they lose very little because they are stuck in that 7-10 slot anyway.
hawksfancents95
June 27th, 2012
12:49 pm
@meidza. i never looked at miles plumlee as a plausible draft prospect for the hawks because i thought he was 6′9. if he is 6′11 3/4inch then i could definitley see him being a really good choice at #43, i could see miles being a fan favorite chris anderson type with strong dunks and good defense in space. chris anderson is 6′10 and in 2008 he was a 6 and 6 guy off the bench with 2.5 blocks, i bet miles could post those #s his first year playing a backup role(except for 2.5 blks)
darrell starks
June 27th, 2012
12:49 pm
Now i see why Rick Sund left and Billy Knight
2 coaches in LD and Woody continue to waste talent.
Danny will fire LD in a heart beat if this done to him.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SteveW
June 27th, 2012
12:51 pm
Grandad – I co-sign everything you just said. You can improve ball handling and shooting, both to a point. Then, it is variable from there.
People forget that Chauncey Billups, Doc Rivers, Rajon Rondo, and even Kirk Hinrich had absolutely pathetic jump shots when they came in the League. KH went on to develop one of the best mid-range jumpers in the NBA, late in his career. Those other guys have done, or are doing pretty well also with that part of their game.
Even Mookie had to develop that shot.
That’s why to me, a guy like Wroten’s work ethic and coachability is everything.
The Real cp
June 27th, 2012
12:55 pm
@Asro I really like Thompsons game. He has great size and can really shoot it. I think he might be a better pro than college player because of that Georgoetown stystem.
hawks_4_life
June 27th, 2012
12:59 pm
IM SHUTTING THIS BLOG DOWN….M.C. HAD TO SAY IT LOL.
SteveW
June 27th, 2012
1:07 pm
That’s the reason to me, that I’ve been kind of locked in on Jeff Taylor at #23 for a couple of months now. I think he’s the safest pick. He’s going to play hard, team BB, works like crazy to improve his game, is already a great athlete, and probably has a ceiling of about 12 and 6 in this League, with above average D.
That’s not to say other picks can’t help us at #23, I think Jeff is just the most well rounded – Draymond would be great at 23 – but he’s a tweener with below average athleticism. Fab has great potential – so does Festus, Wroten, Marquis, Doron, and Pluymlee among others. But Jeff is the safest pick in my opinion.
And maybe I’m looking for the post-Marvin era to quickly.
But I wouldn’t mind a draft of Taylor and Miller, and get Marvin out of town as quick as possible. Bring Trey Gilder in for a look at the 3 spot as well…
hawksfancents95
June 27th, 2012
1:08 pm
our goal should still be to trade AL and either acquire an all star caliber player right now, or get a sure lottery teams 1st round pick for next year and eat some players over paid salary.
lets call up Danny Ainge and see if we cant get rondo for teague and horford.
horford for monta ellis and the bucks 1st next year.
AL for Calderon and TOR 1st next year.
good laugher AL to PHX for JChill and Hakim Warrick PHO gives us next year 1st(they look like the worst team in the NBA next year if Nash leaves)
Trade O Day AL and Marv to SAC for John Salmons Fransisco Garcia and Chuck Hayes and SAC first next year
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
1:10 pm
G’D, I never said its easy to become a great shooter. I said its easier to improve your shooting than it is your ball handling. And from working with kids, to high school kids, or just working out with people also, that is evident to me.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
1:11 pm
AJ, I’m just saying I wouldn’t trade my best player for two players that will be my fourth and sixth best player.
SteveW
June 27th, 2012
1:14 pm
I was sure hoping Keith was going to be a part of our Summer League.
Grandad
June 27th, 2012
1:16 pm
SteveW
The problem with Wroten is:
*All the Red-flags;
1. not a good teammate
2 Xtremely Left-handed – people choose to ignore this fact
**(in other words, can`t use his right hand)
3. gets to the rim / yet, cannot hit free-throws
4. low basketball IQ
5 questionable coachability
6. show-boat passer – though – has never run an offense
7. high turn-over rate
8. absolutely zero background as a defender ?
note – Best Case = a larger version of Sebastion Telfair
plus – WorstCase =
Marvin with a handle that can`t shoot but don`t fall down
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
1:17 pm
From espn.com;
A source close to Amare Stoudemire told ESPNNewYork.com that the Knicks’ power forward will work with NBA legend and post-up coach Hakeem Olajuwon later this offseason. Olajuwon will fly to New York in August to train with Stoudemire. The source also said Tyson Chandler might join Stoudemire for the workouts, but that hasn’t been confirmed..
LeBron worked with Olajuwon last summer, and the results were obvious. Didn’t Josh work with Olajuwon in the past? Can we get Josh to work with him again?
Grandad
June 27th, 2012
1:18 pm
Just kiddin` about the Marv remark.
I would take Wroten over Marv any day of the week;
including Fri the 13th on leap year.
Grandad
June 27th, 2012
1:25 pm
Ra’mon
I went into great detail to say that you were wrong.
perhaps I used too many words.
(*!*) ~> *’`One can improve ballhandling easier than shooting`’* <~ (*!*)
Ray
June 27th, 2012
1:26 pm
Benson is in D-league I think he needed to add a lot of weight he had the height for a center not the size though, but honestly he was a hard worker and whomever gets him from D-league has a steal on their hands I thought we shouldn’t have let him go in the first place, but we did get Ivan.
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
1:32 pm
Melvin,
I agree that you cannot just combine numbers. But I think Zaza can duplicate his numbers from last year, and think about our backup centers from last season. We used Ivan, Josh, Twin and Dampier.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
1:32 pm
G’dad, and I think you’re wrong. You didn’t use too many words. I comprehend quite nicely. But there are FAR more cases in the NBA of players improving their shooting abilities than of players improving their ball handling abilities.
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
1:34 pm
Ra’mon,
Would you do Lowry, Dalembert and one of the Rockets picks for Josh and #23?
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
1:39 pm
O’Brien, Nope. I’d rather take Gasol, lol. Unless Houston taking Marvin with Josh. Other wise nope. Now if you give me Scola and one of their picks. Or Scola and Lowery, I’ll take that deal.
Ray
June 27th, 2012
1:50 pm
I guess I didn’t hear about Benson signing with GS sorry about that.
@ O’Brien
Like someone said I wouldn’t do the Rockets deal even with their draft picks why because Teague and Lowry have the same kind of ceiling that’s one reason. Plus Dalembert is someone that rubs off he’s not going to work hard which means while he’s better than Dampier and Collins he won’t work hard unless it’s a championship team.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
1:53 pm
O’B, the thing is I think that the center from Vanderbilt is just as good as Dalembert and much cheaper. So I see no value in him, even if he does have an option on his contract.
Grandad
June 27th, 2012
1:55 pm
Ra`mon
The younger you get a subject to work with the easier / better.
The older ; the more bad habits to break & the more set in their ways.
Actually professionals are highly motivated;
due to $millions of $ dollars on the line, if they can jump
their FT % up [say] .10 % points,
or [say] .10 % points on FG shooting for two examples.
.10 % is a huge jump.
However;
a player [not a pg] but any other player can drastically
improve his / her ballhandling.
That`s a fact !
‘ Don Meyer ‘ called it tightening up your game.
*Fundamentals
*Paying attn
*Using your eyes
*Utilizing proper footwork
Simple stuff will radically improve one`s ballhandling !
Grandad
June 27th, 2012
1:57 pm
The reason I said [not a point guard];
is a pg -must- be an -elite- ballhandler !
Grandad
June 27th, 2012
2:04 pm
Ra`mon
‘`You didn’t use too many words. I comprehend quite nicely`’
I was not insulting your ability to comprehend;
rather my lameness in expressing the point.
‘`But there are FAR more cases in the NBA of players
improving their shooting abilities than of players
improving their ball handling abilities.”
You cannot possibly document that.
Astro Joe
June 27th, 2012
2:10 pm
Ra’mon, Dalembert is signed for a single year. We will not find a center at 23 who will be better than Dalembert next year. And we could still draft a project center at 23 who could be part of Ferry’s new development program when both Dalembert and Zaza are UFAs in 13 months.
If we can trade any captain for a starting center and a starting PG, both of whom not only fit the remaining pieces but also bring tenacity, toughness and guys who won’t compete for FGAs with the better offensive players…. go make that happen.
rufus1
June 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
680 the fan….
Home team, said Jeremy lamb and Perry Jones were in for a workout….. If that doesn’t mean trade, nothing does.
Ra'mon
June 27th, 2012
2:16 pm
You can if you take into account field goal and 3 pt % compared t/o number throughout players careers. Or even with the eye test. SteveW, just made a list of quite a few players who shooting improved dramatically, but they were already excellent ball handlers when they came into the league.
High-sider
June 27th, 2012
2:22 pm
@Grandad
“…Actually professionals are highly motivated;
due to $millions of $ dollars on the line, if they can jump
their FT % up [say] .10 % points,
or [say] .10 % points on FG shooting for two examples.
.10 % is a huge jump…” – Grandad @1:55pm dated 6/27/2012
Grandad, do you realize that 0.10% equals (=) .0010? So, if a player shoots 0.6500 (65%) from the FT line for one year (season) and increases his FT% by .0010 in the next year (season), that player’s FT% for the next year (season) will be 0.6510 (65.1%); [0.6500 + 0.0010 = 0.6510]. Is that a “huge jump” or significant increase in FT% accuracy?
Please verify my calculations as I could be incorrect.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
2:32 pm
rufus1,
Did 680 the fan say that from twitter? If so, could u post that?
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
2:36 pm
Dalembert averaged 8 pts, 7 rebs (2 offensive) and 2 blocks in 22 mpg last year, while shooting 80% from the line, and 51% from the field. Can the center from Vanderbilt put up those numbers this coming season?
Ray,
1) Would you say that Zaza is a hard worker?
2) Do you think Dalembert is better than Zaza?
And even if Teague and Lowry have the same ceiling, Lowry only has 2 more years on his deal, so we could probably trade him next offseason if we wanted to. And if Lowry averages 15 pts, 7 assists and 5 rebs again, there should be a market for him.
Melvin
June 27th, 2012
2:39 pm
I’m hoping we get Perry Jones. I like that kid… 6-11 SF/PF and will play some C in small ball lineups. Get him a Hawks Jersey ASAP…
O'Brien
June 27th, 2012
2:49 pm
Melvin,
I don’t think Jones will fall past 19. Different articles have linked him to Philly at 15, Dallas at 17, and Orlando at 19.
Melvin
June 27th, 2012
2:54 pm
OB,
I was reacting from what rufus1 posted.
KevinM
June 27th, 2012
2:56 pm
Two things to change the culture of this team:
1) Bring in Steve Nash as a ‘win-now’ statement.
2) Get Josh his new address and if you have to package Teague or Joe, then so be it.
You then can attempt to get Royce White to backup Al. Don’t expect Doron Lamb (a top 5 SG) to make it to 43…..don’t make that mistake.
We need bench buckets and Lamb will grow in that role at 6′5″. I think he can matchup with Beal and Rivers just fine.
Rufus1
June 27th, 2012
2:57 pm
Ms Dee,
I was listing to the Buck and Kincaid Show. Buck was repeating was “Home Team” told him who was working out…. I am not sure if he said they worked out today but the news made happy. Those players are slotted to go from 7 to 18… Also, we heard nothing about them coming in for workouts(Like Julio Jones) I think a trade is a very real possibility.
Rufus1
June 27th, 2012
2:59 pm
Sorry about the mistakes.. on my phone.
MsDee
June 27th, 2012
3:05 pm
Thx rufus1 for the positive info!! Loving the idea that we could trade up but I just hope Teague nor Horford are in the mix!
Michael Cunningham
June 27th, 2012
3:07 pm
new blog posted. shutting down this thread.