Atlanta Hawks: New bench same as the old bench?
The Hawks liked their bench players so much last season they are hoping they can lure them back for 2012-13.
“When we go forward I would anticipate–because our bench was so good for us last year [and] in our exit meetings with our veterans to a man said, ‘Can we get our same bench back?’–we are definitely going to make an effort to do that,” Hawks assistant GM Dave Pendergraft said. “Because, as you know, that was one of the deeper benches I’ve been involved with. It helped us sustain the injuries. I think they enjoyed the experience.
“I feel like the guys who came off the bench felt they had an identity. I think they felt appreciated by the starters. I think we would be their first choice. Now, I think a lot of things play into that but we talked to all of them and they had a good experience. ”
All of the 2011-12 reserves except for Ivan Johnson (the Hawks plan to extend him a qualifying offer to retain salary-matching rights) will be unrestricted free agents next month: Jason Collins, Erick Dampier, Willie Green, Kirk Hinrich, Tracy McGrady, Jannero Pargo, Vladimir Radmanovic and Jerry Stackhouse.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a scenario in which the Hawks rebuild their bench by bringing back most of those veterans if possible while supplanting one of them with their first-round draft pick, a player they hope can immediately join the back of the rotation.
“We have got to play it out,” Hawks GM Rick Sund said. “You can’t make any decisions even in your head right now. You can only play out scenarios because you don’t know what the [luxury] tax is going to be, you don’t know what the cap is going to be, you don’t know who you are going to draft.”
The Hawks did have a solid bench last season but, for various reasons, there is some risk in bringing back each of those players.
In the front court, Collins had some slippage and you wonder if Dampier will stay in shape this summer. Dampier turns 38 next month and Collins will be 34 in December.
The Hawks might be pressing their luck to hope Green can duplicate his career-best season–his inability to create shots in the playoffs against Boston’s defense may have been a sign. Also, he’ll be 31 next month after lingering injuries cost him 13 games last season.
Pargo also had the most efficient scoring season of his career but, like Green, the lasting impression was being overmatched by the Celtics. Larry Drew really likes Hinrich because of his defensive tenacity but Hinrich’s offensive production and efficiency continued to drop off and he looked beat up for most of the season.
On the wing, McGrady’s occasional flashes of his old play-making magic couldn’t compensate for his physical deterioration and his seeming inability to fully come to grips with that. Radmanovic also couldn’t stay healthy and went through stretches where he seemed reluctant to do the one thing the Hawks signed him to do, shoot 3-pointers. Stackhouse played in just 30 regular-season games and none in the playoffs.
Whatever the individual weaknesses of those players, Sund said he believes they collectively created a good blend for the Hawks.
“Last year I think we were the deepest team in the from league one through 15 once we picked up Dampier,” Sund said. “We had a great composite with the versatility and flexibility. It gave a lot of options for Larry, which he used a lot. He changed lineups and he could match up well.
“Also I think the really good teams can play the different styles. You can play an up-tempo game, you can play a defensive game, they can grind it out. I think the team with the best record, San Antonio, was the best at that. I think with all the versatility we had that was a plus. We could do that. And we were one of the best defensive teams in the league.”
Of course, the realities of the marketplace could trump whatever misgivings the Hawks have about bringing back last season’s reserves or signing other similarly-flawed free agents. You have to take what you can get if you are limited to filling out the roster with minimum-salaried vets.
If last season’s reserves don’t find much love on the free-agent market then perhaps they return.
“I think some of the guys are definitely in the mix,” Drew said. “My feeling is a lot of the guys are probably going to try to obviously get the best offer they can and go where the best offer is. We will be talking to most of them to see what they are thinking. We are going to have to make sure we are strengthening our bench and guys who can fit in with the core.
“There are certain pieces we are looking for. Last year I thought was a pretty good blend, a pretty good mix, and we kind of have an idea now of the type of players we need to bring in. We have already started to look at that free agent list and what’s out there and whether we can afford them or not. But with nine free agents got our work cut out for us. I don’t know who we can get.”
Some of last season’s reserves talked about the possibility of returning as they headed out the door.
Green: “I’ve got nine years in the NBA and I’m just looking forward to the next challenge. We will see what happens. If the opportunity is here [in Atlanta], this is where I will be. If not, I wish the Hawks the best.
Pargo: “Just looking for any team that wants me. Once I find out what teams want me, then go from there. If [the Hawks] will have me, I would love to be back.”
Hinrich: “Talent-wise, we are one of the better teams in the East. You play in this league for a certain amount of time and you want to be on a winner. We will see what happens. I could be back here, or could not.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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343 comments Add your comment
terrell
June 22nd, 2012
3:01 pm
Enter your comments here
terrell
June 22nd, 2012
3:02 pm
Lmfao @ Sund and Co.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
3:09 pm
Ditch Vlad and Collins for sure.
Dampier also, unless your sure he’s in shape.
Stack – Join Mo’ Evans as Coach at the Summer League, ok?
MCgrady, Green, Hinrich, Pargo – I’m ok with that I guess – but Pargo needs to be the 3rd string PG, not 2nd.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
3:10 pm
“We have got to play it out,” Hawks GM Rick Sund said. “You can’t make any decisions even in your head right now. You can only play out scenarios because you don’t know what the [luxury] tax is going to be, you don’t know what the cap is going to be, you don’t know who you are going to draft.” Wow…
The streak will continue for sure!!!!!!
44
2056
WeNeedTree
June 22nd, 2012
3:10 pm
Sign Ivan and Pargo and let the rest go…
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
3:10 pm
Ivan I definitely want back.
WeNeedTree
June 22nd, 2012
3:11 pm
Was there a more overpaid player in the league last year than Hinrich?
KevinM
June 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
When Sund talks, doesn’t it just make you want to throw something?
He has no PR skills whatsoever; he never answers anything. Totally disgusting, and it looks like this group is back again for another short run in the playoffs.
MC, you just burst any hope of progress that we as fans thought they might make. If all the reserves say yes, they’ll come back, that means we have the same motley crew to beat up on -.500 teams, and watch another up and coming team step over us in the standings.
If I were LeBron and Co, I could take a long vacation, relax knowing that the Hawks are satisfied with competing in Season 1.
Totally disgusting.
Sautee
June 22nd, 2012
3:12 pm
“We had a great composite with the versatility and flexibility. It gave a lot of options for Larry, which he used a lot.”
Sund says this like it’s a good thing.
KYP – Know Your Personnel.
And apparently Sund doesn’t have a clue that giving LD too many options is debilitating to team success. This organization lives in a world of make believe.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
3:13 pm
Jamal opted out of 5.4 mill with the Trailblazers – I’m not sure how the Hawks will be pursuing him – unless they take the best offer out there for Marvin, regardless of what it is.
Lang Greene said we are not going to just give Marvin away.
He also said he doubt’s Jamal comes back – the Motion O is not for him.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
3:14 pm
Well there you have it..The more things stay the same round here..
Hey Sund why dont you tell All Whatever to work on his finesse game so not to re-injure himself..
Oh that’s right, that’s not a part of his skill set and will never be.
Well at least I can save money again this coming season…
Sund Retire will ya??????????????????????????????????????????
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
3:14 pm
WNT – Rashard Lewis?
TMACfan
June 22nd, 2012
3:15 pm
TMAC is a gone man.
TMACfan
June 22nd, 2012
3:15 pm
Please draft Tony Wroten
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
3:15 pm
WNT – Charlie Villenueva? Hedo Turkoglu?
Michael Cunningham
June 22nd, 2012
3:16 pm
@KevinM: “MC, you just burst any hope of progress that we as fans thought they might make.”
sorry.
KevinM
June 22nd, 2012
3:17 pm
Sund is telling you this is the easiest money he’s ever made because there is very little advanced planning.
Disgusting.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
3:18 pm
MC, is there anyway you can give us an update on the workouts today?
How did Andrew Nicholson fair?
GStateBen
June 22nd, 2012
3:19 pm
I definitely think Ivan and Pargo are worth keeping. Dampier can be replaced with the draft pick of Fab Melo (who should be there). Collins should not be retained and it was a mistake, IMO, to bring him back this past season. This is also tells me that the Hawks 2nd round pick MUST make the team. No NBDL or off to Europe for seasoning. This draft is deep enough to have a quality player in the 2nd round.
I agree on Willie Green although he’s a very good leader and the team seemed to perk up with him in the game.
KevinM
June 22nd, 2012
3:19 pm
“Lang Greene said we are not going to just give Marvin away.”
In real words, no one will take him……
Sund, can we give you away?
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
3:20 pm
Hey I give Sund credit for his honesty..
He keeps saying he don’ know……… Help us please?
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
3:21 pm
Please no Vlad Rad, Stack, Collins, really no Damp either, unless he’s in good shape.
Hit a homerun at #23.
And I see no lottery player that gives us what Josh gives us except Davis. Everybody else is a long term project. Drummond may be great or he may be a bust. MKG? A couple of years away. Beal? Same.
Robinson? Ok rebounding translates – so he’s a little better than Faried maybe.
UNC F? Too risky after Marvin
TMACfan
June 22nd, 2012
3:23 pm
Can we please take a risk reward on Brandon Roy?
In a 6th man role.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
3:23 pm
Henson or Zeller may be ok. Same with Meyer Leonard. But nobody’s going to give you what Josh does that I can see.
So do you trade Josh for a lesser player?
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
3:25 pm
Brain Butch, Chris Daniels or somebody may give you what Collins and Dampier would, except for just pure size and bulk.
Give Benson another shot.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm
I sign Roy tomorrow if there is any chance he can play 15 minutes per nite.
beone
June 22nd, 2012
3:27 pm
The joke for sure is on the fans. When it is obvious from lack of attendance at games and the comments on blogs that fans want change we are told, it was good and so it will be the same. Is anybody on the Hawks listening? Are they so pompous and full of themselves that they refuse to listen to anyone? The fans, the commentators, the newspaper writers, the pundits? Apparently all wrong. ONLY SUND, DREW and GEARON know the truth. Well, the joke will be on them when they and the players are the only ones at the games. Just sell it to Seattle and be done with it.
Buddy Grizzard
June 22nd, 2012
3:28 pm
“Can someone explain the difference between Fab Melo and Hasheem Thabeet?
Besides Fab being shorter.”
Thabeet gets up and down the court faster?
WeNeedTree
June 22nd, 2012
3:29 pm
Draft Festus Ezeli…move Al over and trade Josh….and take whatever you can get for Joe…
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
3:32 pm
Yea Josh will play it out then walk? Will not be surprised that’s for sure..
“We have to Play it Out”= we[Hawks] are convinced that we have ECF talent on this ballclub..
Not buying it Sund…
Mike
June 22nd, 2012
3:34 pm
MC, Any word that if that Sund is coming back to this team and when we can get a new GM for real. Also, do you think that the Hawks will try to make some moves in Draft?
I am starting to think these guys are play “Scorched earth” games around here, they try to make the fans feel so assured that this team is going to pass the hump to the ECF or even the playoffs. But in reality, we are just like a middling team with no cap space and no hope at all. This team needs to be sold and sold right now or they are going to lose the rest of the fan-base.
Buddy Grizzard
June 22nd, 2012
3:43 pm
Um… did Sund get extended while I wasn’t looking?
Ray
June 22nd, 2012
3:50 pm
The answer is to keep Josh and Horford and not move either one.
People keep talking about Josh is a gone man he’s not gone if ownership does what is right, and that’s the point ASKG never does what is right Honestly to me Josh Smith is so game changing that if I’m GM #1 I’m taking a lot of the other teams players plus draft picks for this year and next.
Like say Portland for example I’m taking a good bit of their younger players back plus both picks and some of their next years picks.
That is the only way I’d get over Josh Smith leaving unless *sigh* ownership does what they are normally good at doing and F’up the Draft picks.
Besides that though WE NEED TO GET RID OF JOE CHOKE MAX JOHNSON! Let him be someone else’s problem. He didn’t thrive in this offense that I haven’t really seen much of since last season. Because they did exactly what everyone thought they would do revert back to Mike Woodson Iso Joe Style offense.
Stuart
June 22nd, 2012
3:50 pm
I am for keeping Zaza (he returns to the bench with Al returning), Hinrich, Ivan and Pargo. The rest of the bench needs to go. TJerk isn’t consistent anymore, Stackhouse is 135 and the others just aren’t going to be servicable. I wouldn’t mind taking a flyer on Brandon Roy and howzabout a trade of Marvin.
Jay
June 22nd, 2012
4:00 pm
Sund thinks we were the deepest team in the LEAGUE last year??? Is he crazy??!?!? Our bench was WAAAAY overrated. Cunningham’s analysis was accurate. Most of those guys are expendable. Ivan is worth keeping, Pargo as a third pg, Kirk only at a hugely discounted price or not at all. All the rest, ditch em. T-Mac won’t be back, I think that’s a lock, same with VladRad.
GSmooth
June 22nd, 2012
4:02 pm
So in other words they want to bring back last years mediocre team that took a step backwards in the playoffs.. Spend some $$$$ for once and build a contender! We can’t contend with half of the teams in the East. So frustrated by this article.
Ray
June 22nd, 2012
4:05 pm
Ivan is a keeper
Zaza is a most def keeper in fact I’m in favor of starting him moving Al to PF and Josh to SF.
Cause if we don’t it doesn’t give Sund a reason to go draft a legit Center that they are willing to train to at least be a Roy Hibbert basically.
Plus Wasn’t Horford on the record not wanting to play Center few years or even a year back? So for the most part Dampier and Collins don’t cut it only on a team like Boston or Spurs would they even be acceptable cause both coaches know how to use them.
cp
June 22nd, 2012
4:12 pm
I dont want another year of Twin. I didnt want him last season and I dont want him this upcoming season. Twin is terrible. I dont mind Ivan, Green, and Pargo but no more Twin. This front office has no clue. Its clear they wont be breaking up the core and we will see more of the same from last season. Its hard as hell being a fan of this team.
prison mike
June 22nd, 2012
4:15 pm
Excited about the bench with Al coming back strong and our draft picks strengthening it. Hopefully we use the MLE and make a strong push.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
June 22nd, 2012
4:20 pm
Jason Collins – Only good when guarding Dwight Howard
Erick Dampier – Too old and can’t finish
Willie Green – Shot the ball well last year and should have played more
Kirk Hinrich – Plays ok defense but jumpshot is beyond repair
Tracy McGrady – Played well in the playoffs
Jannero Pargo – ok but shoots too may 3’s
Vladimir Radmanovic – Washed up
Jerry Stackhouse – Washed up
Give me Big Ivan, Mcgrady, and Willie Green. Let the rest walk. Time to give up on Jason Collins.
fork
June 22nd, 2012
4:24 pm
Stick me in the Atlanta Hawks
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
June 22nd, 2012
4:28 pm
lol @fork
just SHOOT me
June 22nd, 2012
4:35 pm
We all know the Hawks are going to blow it in the draft. They’ll probably sell the pick or draft some guy no one’s ever heard of. Until the ASG is gone, so are the Hawks and their fans. I mean come on…Who wants to go to another Hawks game? Not me!
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2012
4:36 pm
I don’t mind bringing back most of the same bench, except a) I would replace Green’s roster spot with a true veteran backup PG who can handle the ball and control tempo, and b) I would replace Vlad’s roster spot with another viable big man who can rebound and defend. Those two roster spots should have gone to Reggie Evans and Earl Watson anyway.
I’m picking Pargo over Green because even though both have more or less the same strengths and weaknesses, in my opinion Pargo is capable of doing more things than Green.
One thing, though, is that this bench cannot be relied on to produce offense unless they have a facilitator. If T-Mac is one and done with the Hawks, they better find someone else who can come in and create easy shots for the second unit.
Geemack
June 22nd, 2012
4:37 pm
I’ve been a loyal fan since I was 10 yrs old, but I’m really starting to dislike this franchise.
chuckw/deadjournalist
June 22nd, 2012
4:43 pm
even when you see ineptitude and know the more is coming, it is doesn’t make it any easier to swallow.
henceforth, i shall call the hawks, the hakws because they always get it backwards.
Luv Josh Smith
June 22nd, 2012
4:43 pm
Keep this bench another year? Deepest team in the League?
I am going the throw up. Sund can’t be serious with his comments. Hope he is keeping his plans close to his chest and feeding the media nothing. I hope.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2012
4:46 pm
“Najeh, I love reading your stuff, but this is the most absurd thing you have ever posted:
“The Hawks lost to the Celtics because they can’t score and the Celtics can.”
The ease with which the Celtics scored was purely a function of Larry Drew deciding to have poor defenders like Teague and Pargo try to check Rondo. Watch the video I linked. Teague ISN’T EVEN TRYING to stay in front of Rondo.”
First of all I have been posting on AJC blogs for seven years, so I’m pretty sure I have posted something more absurd than that.
Secondly, I don’t see what video you linked, so I can’t really respond. I do remember, though, that the Hawks as a whole played solid team defense for every game of that series except Game 4. I don’t agree that Teague was that bad on D, but even if I were to accept that contention of yours, the Hawks held the Celtics to offensive ratings below their season average in five of the six games of the series.
The Celtics’ season offensive rating was 101.0. The Hawks’ season defensive rating was 101.2. The Celtics’ offense only exceeded that number in two games, one of which they lost anyway.
Unfortunately, the Hawks were also held to offensive ratings of 95 or below in each of their four losses. For comparison’s sake, the Celtics’ top ranked defense allowed a 98 rating for the season. So in other words, the Hawks scored at such an inefficient rate in their four losses that they performed below the average for a typical Celtics opponent this season.
I stand by what I said before. The Hawks lost to the Celtics because they couldn’t score. In crunch time, the Celtics moved the ball and got open shots while the Hawks dribbled the air out of the ball and ended up with Josh launching 3s with 3 seconds left on the shot clock. Individual player matchups aside, the team stats (which ultimately are what determine wins and losses) bear this out.
Astro Joe
June 22nd, 2012
4:47 pm
The Summer of Sameness is operating in the 4th gear. Now, we just need the final touches on the GM decision and we’ll be at top speed going no where.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2012
4:50 pm
Another thing about the bench — they absolutely must add a perimeter defender to the mix. Damien Wilkins isn’t exactly All-Defense material and yet his absence was felt this season.
Zaza is obviously still under contract. Preferably Ivan comes back, although if they can find someone like him in the draft or in free agency he is not irreplaceable. They need a perimeter defender, and they need a veteran big man to defend true centers (preferably an upgrade over Collins and Dampier). Other than that, something resembling this year’s shooter-heavy bench is OK, as long as there is a facilitator present to play T-Mac’s role.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2012
4:51 pm
I also am not buying Kirk as the perimeter defender. For one, he can’t guard big 2s or 3s. And secondly, he is declining even more rapidly than Joe. What he does can be replaced. Let him walk unless he is willing to take the veteran’s minimum, and even if he is, they still need to add a veteran point to the mix anyway since he is strictly a 2 at this point in his career.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2012
4:52 pm
“Last year I think we were the deepest team in the from league one through 15 once we picked up Dampier,”
LOL
NUNNA!!
June 22nd, 2012
4:54 pm
THATS IT!!!!! IM FINISHED WITH THESE NUT JOBS!!!
“Last year I think we were the deepest team in the from league one through 15 once we picked up Dampier,” Sund said.
ARE U SH-TTING US????
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE HEAT/THUNDER????
AND YO DUMB A– WANNA MAKE A STATEMENT LIKE THAT??!!!!
FIRE DAT M——F—— NOW!!
THAT IS THE DUMBEST STATEMENT I’VE EVER HEARD AND HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE OUR GM??!!!!
IM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FREAKING PISSED RIGHT NOW!!
IM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FREAKING PISSED OFF RIGHT NOW!!
He is talking about what happened because of the injuries and we kinda stepped up,i get it..
But in a coded way that is not different from the title of this article this nut is saying,”this is it,we’re gonna ride or die with this bunch if we can get them alllllllllll back next year!!
He– Naw!!!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2012
4:54 pm
“Was there a more overpaid player in the league last year than Hinrich?”
Sadly he was probably only the 3rd most overpaid player on this roster last year.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2012
4:55 pm
The Nuggets’ 4th through 8th best players would have beaten the Hawks’ 4th through 8th best players by 50. That statement by Sund has to be in the DASG Spin Hall of Fame.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2012
4:58 pm
“Can we please take a risk reward on Brandon Roy?”
Hell yeah. If he passes a physical, no excuse not to. Sh-t, I’d gladly pay him the $16 million the Hawks still owe Marvin.
Buddy Grizzard
June 22nd, 2012
5:01 pm
Here you go Najeh:
http://nbaplaybook.com/2012/05/11/how-atlantas-d-fared-against-rondo/
Tell me about the good team defense you see in that video.
Ray
June 22nd, 2012
5:05 pm
Having someone like Brandon Roy in the lineup would be 2000x better than THE DUCK!(Marvin)
The first thing ASG needs to do is admit a mistake and get rid of Marvin that is one of our all-time mistakes(notice I didn’t say The all-time just one of).
Second thing admit their second biggest mistake of paying Joe Johnson all that money.
hawksfancents95
June 22nd, 2012
5:11 pm
Ivan Johnson,Jason Collins, Erick Dampier, Willie Green, Kirk Hinrich, Tracy McGrady, Jannero Pargo, Vladimir Radmanovic and Jerry Stackhouse.
We did have a good versatile bench last year but we need to move forward and honestly, maybe three of them i would bring back(def. Ivan 9-5). i think hinrich would be great to bring back in a backup PG role but i think he will fetch more money elsewhere. TMAC would be valuable off the bench but i think he had enough of LD and ASG. there is no reason and i mean no reason to bring jason collins,erik dampier,vlad rad, and jstack back. pargo and green are iffy but jannero is too liable on defense and willie is an undersized older combo guy, but ultimatley both need to be let go but i appreciate everyones contributions to our team last year.
June 28th is less than a week away and i cant wait to see what unfolds, i hope MC and AJC will have a blog opened dedicated to the draft night. i got our only selcetion correct last year Keith Benson right and I hope to get these two picks correct this year except i hope we actually make use of these cheap salary roster spots.
my prediction at #23 is Tony Wroten unless somehow Perry or Terrence Jones slips that far, i wouldnt mind those two PFs because i see a lot of potential in both .
our #43 pick i predict Kostas Papanikolaou
Mike
June 22nd, 2012
5:13 pm
I dont believe ESPN just say that we contact Danny Ferry for GM position. They should go after Troy Weaver or anybody from Spurs organization, not Danny freakin Ferry.
Sautee
June 22nd, 2012
5:14 pm
“Now, we just need the final touches on the GM decision and we’ll be at top speed going no where.”
LOL. AJ, as my songwriter friend Jeff Talmadge says:
“We’re lost, but we’re making real good time”.
Grandad
June 22nd, 2012
5:16 pm
…manure de jour…
…………or………….
Our BS of the day..
I reckon the starting line-up`s gonna be the same.
The draft choice ain`t gonna start.
I s`pose they gonna sell the 2nd rounder.
Ray
June 22nd, 2012
5:18 pm
Yeah you go after GM’s and Assistant Coaches of organizations that win not lose you know or stay mediocre like we do every year.
KevinM
June 22nd, 2012
5:23 pm
They aren’t talking about bringing 3 back…they’re talking the entire squad!!
AJ said it, the summer of same…..the season that Rick Sund says is where he makes roster changes. He is as blind as he is insane. Getting paid to do the same thing is stealing!
Get ready for a balloon burst when Stern announces that the middle-of-the-road Hawks select PF….with the 23rd pick of the NBA draft.
Don’t take one step back, Sund…take a bunch of them, with you staying in charge.
“Those two roster spots should have gone to Reggie Evans and Earl Watson anyway.”
Najeh, I would agree, except for the fact Watson got a 2yr/4M and someone else was actually interested in him. Evans nor Damien Wilkins is taking us anywhere near the ECF.
If we had Evans, then we could be part of the ‘hack-a-Reggie’ a-thon! We might even make the not-so-Top-10 on SportsCenter.
And the worse contract on this team belongs to Joe Johnson, by far! Its not a one year consensus…Joe’s deal takes us way beyond sensible.
I blame Sund.
DaVonte Hughes
June 22nd, 2012
5:26 pm
Heck no we dont want the same bench. Sign ivan and maybe pargo if he can get better in the off-season. Kirk Hinrich maybe if hes 100%. But if we sign our targets Ray allen(not likely) alonzo gee(good potential) Jamal Crawford(needs to learn defense NOW) then we would have a deep team. We want championship not just winning seasons. CHANGE IS NOW
Ray
June 22nd, 2012
5:31 pm
If the Atlanta Falcons don’t win a playoff under Mike Smith, Timmy D, and Matt Ryan you know they get the axe.
If the Atlanta Hawks don’t get past second round everyone can stay. It’s like watching a parent who knows their kids are doing something wrong, but they don’t stop them??? Or give em the old switch treatment you know what I mean.
Ray
June 22nd, 2012
5:33 pm
This upcoming year I mean for the Falcons Arthur Blank isn’t just going to sit on his hands.
Ronnie
June 22nd, 2012
5:35 pm
“…while the Hawks dribbled the air out of the ball and ended up with Josh launching 3s with 3 seconds left on the shot clock.”
Which begs the question: Why the hell is Josh even standing out on the perimeter?
Another reason why they struggle to score.
Sautee
June 22nd, 2012
5:37 pm
“Jamal Crawford(needs to learn defense NOW)”
That’s pretty funny. “Learning defense” at age 32? As Grandad has said, you can’t teach someone to overcome a dead battery. Jamal has no desire to be even a decent defender. If so, he could have had twice the career that he did. A curious choice for one so athletically gifted. I guess defense is too much work, LOL.
Ray
June 22nd, 2012
5:48 pm
@ Ronnie
Naw we struggle to score because we’re a jump shooting team while most people pass us by attacking the basket and guess who can stop them. Josh, Al and Zaza, but since it’s been only 2 of 3 of them on the floor at one time well what can ya do.
Plus we lack a legit scorer like a Kevin Durant. I do like Josh, and he may turn into an All-star(already is), but I don’t think he’ll be on KD’s level dude got ice cold veins yeah they may have lost the championship, but OKC will be seeing June at least for a good 12 years or so.
Bernie Matt
June 22nd, 2012
5:55 pm
If Coach Drew really made that statement about Hinrich, he’s playing to a certain audience and I don’t have anymore respect for him. Hinrich was garbage this past year!
donte080
June 22nd, 2012
6:12 pm
WeNeedTree
June 22nd, 2012
3:11 pm
Was there a more overpaid player in the league last year than Hinrich?
Yeah, the guy he replaced…Jamal Crawford was awful last season.
moboman
June 22nd, 2012
6:14 pm
Last year’s bench did an acceptable bench job, but had too much dead wood on it. (Stack, Twin, Dampier) Every year is a new one as far as bench players. Time to reshuffle, and reinvent. Bring back a few, but find some better pieces as well. Thats managements job.
TMACfan
June 22nd, 2012
6:17 pm
Amnesty Marvin Williams (Mrs. Marvina Williams) and use half the money to pick up Brandon Roy. I think we can get him for that much.
Ra'mon
June 22nd, 2012
6:17 pm
Guys, Ferry IS with the San Antonio Spurs. So if they hired him. He must be pretty much worth giving a chance.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
6:22 pm
Ray word on the street Arthur is already looking for another QB cause Ryan aint the one Grasshopper..
He was willing to trade Ryan for Payton…Just word on the street…
Landen Baywood
June 22nd, 2012
6:22 pm
The bench was too old last year. I remember the Heat being in a simular position last summer, everybody thinking their bench was too old, so they got younger by rid of Big Z, Erick Damiper, Mike Bibby and adding Norris Cole.
I think the Hawks should go in the same route. We looked really slow against Boston, and they’re not a young team either.
Section 303
June 22nd, 2012
6:23 pm
The bench was good during the regular season, but they were awful against Boston in the postseason. That’s my lasting memory of them. They were totally unable to perform in the playoffs. I’ll take Ivan back, but not sure about the rest. Hawks should not kill themselves to re-sign any of those guys. Wait until after the draft and see where you stand.
I certainly do not want Willie Green back. He can take a bus out of town. His blown jumper at the the end of Game 3 was a killer in that Boston series. The Hawks win that game if Green makes a 13-foot jumper that was WIDE OPEN!!!(makes me mad, all over again, thinking about it). Playing short handed, in Boston, and had the game won……don’t need to see Willie Green in a Hawks uni again.
Section 303
June 22nd, 2012
6:26 pm
Also….am I the only one who has given up all hope on the Hawks actually making a bold move this year. Amnesty Marvin? Trade Josh Smith (not that I want that to happen, but just seems like it has to.)? They’re just going to use last year’s injuries as an excuse to stand pat. Typical.
Landen Baywood
June 22nd, 2012
6:33 pm
3 Things That WILL NOT Happen This Summer:
1) The Hawks WILL NOT use the amnesty clause on Joe Johnson or Marvin Williams.
2) Josh Smith WILL NOT be traded.
3) And last, the Hawks WILL NOT be signing Deron Williams.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
6:34 pm
Is it true OKC had only 23 wins 3 seasons ago? Wow….
790 the Zone said a few minutes ago the Hawks have interviewed Danny Ferry today for the GM job? WT Heck?
Might as well bring back Billy Knight…….Wow….
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
6:37 pm
[Peyton]^^^^
drock.
June 22nd, 2012
6:41 pm
rick,please dont give us that we have waited long enough.Same old good old boyz.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
6:53 pm
At 12-1 the New York Knicks are predicted to have the 5th best odds at winning a title next season..
They will be very dangerous if healthy. The Hawks, not so much……
Section 303
June 22nd, 2012
6:54 pm
I would not mind Danny Ferry. He built some decent Cleveland teams around LeBron. He showed he is not afraid to tweak things. The Hawks need that.
For those who hate the potential Ferry hire, who would you rather have? I do not think there are many choices.
Section 303
June 22nd, 2012
6:56 pm
SlimJr, give me a f’ing break with this NY Knicks crap. God!! So tired of the national media forcing that team down everyone’s throat. Now, have to come on here and see people buying into to it. Let me help you out….the NY Knicks are not that good! Sorry to break that to you. They’re not that good. Just because they have a few names people know and play in New York City does not make them a championship contender. Enough….
KevinM
June 22nd, 2012
6:56 pm
Danny Ferry, the same Danny Ferry who brought in Moe Williams and Antawn Jamison to complement Shaq?
No thx…..
KevinM
June 22nd, 2012
6:56 pm
Danny Ferry, the same Danny Ferry who brought in Moe Williams and Antawn Jamison to complement LeBron to stay in Cleveland? For that result, he would never be my GM ever.
No thx…..
SuckerFree
June 22nd, 2012
6:57 pm
Sign a new coach…..wait a second…
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
6:58 pm
Standby Section 303, Najeh did a brilliant job of explaining Danny Ferry f—k ups and they were very impressive a few blogs ago..
I will try and repost for your viewing pleasure….
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
7:02 pm
Go Freaking KNICKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cause our F______king “Hakws” will continue streaking…….That was for section 303. LMAO!
Section 303
June 22nd, 2012
7:05 pm
Slimjr, I don’t understand. The Knicks post you just made went over my head, I guess.
Repost the Najeh post, if you don’t mind. The one on Ferry. Would be interested to read his take. Thanks.
Just Joe
June 22nd, 2012
7:30 pm
Andrew Nicholson interview on hawks.com. Kid sounds intelligent. Skinnier than I thought though.
cp
June 22nd, 2012
8:08 pm
Yea im not a fan of Ferry at all. He made a lot of baffling moves while he was with Cleveland.
cp
June 22nd, 2012
8:09 pm
Just Joe you didnt see him at the combine? He really has to bulk up if he is to play the 4. He was getting abused in the post during the combine workouts. I like his game but he has to get stronger.
cp
June 22nd, 2012
8:10 pm
And for those who care, NBATV will have a lot of draft specials starting Monday.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
8:17 pm
Hear ya Go Section 303!
Najeh Davenpoop
June 20th, 2012
5:33 pm
“Think about the Cavs after they drafted LeBron. They got good too fast and didn’t have consecutive high draft picks to surround him with talent (they could have done better with the picks they did get).”
“Cleveland passed on Amare Stoudemire, Nene, and Caron Butler in 2002 to draft DaJuan Wagner, passed on Josh Smith and Al Jefferson in 2004 to draft Luke Jackson, didn’t have a 2005 lottery pick because they traded it in a 1997 deal for Wesley Person, and f-cked up by letting Boozer become a free agent in 2004 when they could have exercised an option on him. Four fatal moves that could have changed the course of their franchise with respect to putting talent around LeBron, and that’s despite getting good much faster than OKC after they drafted Durant.”
Could Billy Knight have done worse?
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
8:28 pm
Section 303, remember this stat proved how incredibly talented Lebron is. Three years ago [Lebrons last season] in Cleveland, they go 61-21..The next year after Lebron leaves, Cleveland post a record 21-61! OUCH!
Lebron had finally realized that Danny was not getting it done..He fullfilled his contract got the heck out of dodge!!!!! And the rest as they say is history….
Danny couldn’t get it done as a player or GM and the underachieving Hawks are about to bring this underachieving buster to ATLANTA? A match made were? Save your money…..
-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-
BILLY KNIGHT
June 22nd, 2012
8:35 pm
Slimjim
Could Billy Knight have done worse?
Sautee
June 22nd, 2012
8:35 pm
slimjr,
FYI, Ferry didn’t start in CLE until June of 2005. All of those things Najeh mentioned preceded him.
You’ve done it again!
That’s not to say that Ferry has been brilliant, but he DID draft JJ Hickson (19th), Shannon Brown (25th), Daniel Gibson (42nd) and Danny Green (46th). I think those are reasonable draft picks for the slot given.
Ken Strickland
June 22nd, 2012
8:39 pm
I recently read an article that said the Howks are considering using JSmith as trade bait to move up in the draft. That tells me the ASG is trying to get something for Josh while at the same time saving money. Drafting a player in the upper part of the 1st rd is a whole lot cheaper than keeping Josh, or letting him walk for nothing.
An upper half 1st rd pick would cost about $5-6M per yr, which is a lot cheaper than paying Josh over $12M per yr. That $6-7M savings could buy a decent bench player or 2, especially a Big. I’m not saying this is the best way to go, but it might be the only way for an ownership group that’s strapped for cash and trying to field a competitive team.
Astro Joe
June 22nd, 2012
8:40 pm
I’d take Danny Ferry (but the cynic in me believes this is a smoke screen). The thing that sold me is the rumor that he is trying to negotiate authority. That suggests that he isn’t interested in being a caretaker and knows enough about how things work that he doesn’t want to have permission to use the restroom (or sign an emergency 4th center). And my guess, he probably would love a chance to prove that San Antonio didn’t produce just one excelent GM from their tree (Presti with OKC) but that he can also build an up and coming squad. And honestly, as we sit here on June 22, 2012, Ferry has exactly as many Finals appearances as Presti. He knows the league, has all of the phone numbers and worked in a city desperate for a champion. But I fully and completely believe that Pendergraft will get the job. I found it interesting that the guy responsible for the Hawks draft is being quoted discussing the bench (and a bunch of veteran players).
The Monger
June 22nd, 2012
8:56 pm
I dont know whether to laugh or cry at this quote…“Last year I think we were the deepest team in the from league one through 15 once we picked up Dampier,” Sund said.
Im leaning toward crying, because 45 plus years of mediocrity and being led by buffoon after buffoon is starting to wear thin. This is truly horrible that a man supposedly devoted to winning games wants this team to lose with all his heart apparently. I hate Rick Sund and ASG with ALL my heart. They continue to believe in this heartless, immature, arrogant group of players. The series in Boston explained it all…we had homecourt advantage and lost it, won the first game and lost the 2nd with Rondo and Pierce out, then we have a chance to tie it back in game 4 and get BLOWN out. Got blown out in Orlando 2 years ago, got blown out in Chicago. These are playoff games and our team is full of chokers and whiners, who aren’t championship pedigree. The only player who is a champion type player is Al Horford, and maybe Jeff Teague in a few years. Sund wants a Bench back that had Jason Collins on it, Jason “the worst player on an NBA roster” Collins? Eric Dampier, 38 years old and out of shape? Vladimir Radmonovich, who has one good game, then 5 bad ones. T-Mac who can’t shoot anymore, Kirk “turnover machine” Hinrich. Then 3 guys who had decent years in Pargo, Ivan, and Green, but its doubtful Pargo and Green have career years back to back. Every TNT analyst laughed at your bench depth and so did the entire nation during the playoffs. You were playing Eric Dampier and Jason Collins in meaningful minutes. Pargo and Green were downright awful, T-Mac had a spurt and then was injured for the 5th time this year, Ivan was bad, and the rest of them didnt even step on the floor to contribute. And this Rick Sund is the “deepest bench in the NBA?” , are you high or just think this is some kind of joke to say something like that?….
Guess I won’t be watching any Hawks games this year… 5th seed in East and first round exit again, Josh leaves and we are stuck with Joe for another 3 years after next season. I guess I will hopefully be able to step back into Phillips somewhere around 2016 or so…
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
9:01 pm
Thanks Sautee for setting the record straight!
You’ve done it again! lol
I typed out of turn!
TMACfan
June 22nd, 2012
9:04 pm
All Hawks fans answer this question:
Will the Hawks win the title next year???
————————————————————
It is time to blow it up and restart.
Section 303
June 22nd, 2012
9:07 pm
Slimjr, I think Najeh is a really smart. But, like someone pointed out, all of those moves came before he was GM in Cleveland.
Who knows if the Hawks will actually hire Ferry? If they do, I think he could be a good GM. Late in the LeBron Cleveland era, the team was desperate to keep LeBron. So, whatever moves were made during LeBron’s final season were not the norm. They (the Cavs) were trying hard to win the title and ensure LeBron’s re-signing. That is not a normal condition.
Besides, most on here will rip the furture Hawks GM, regardless of who it is. There were fire Sund posts the day he was hired. I’m willing to give Ferry a shot. I think he could do well here. But, until he actually signs on, it is all just Internet BS. I like Internet BS, by the way…
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
9:11 pm
Ken, it would be disastrous for this organization to let Josh walk at the end of next season and get nothing in return..
It would get real ugly in Hawks land..
.
Sautee
June 22nd, 2012
9:14 pm
Monger,
Just for some perspective: Kirk “turnover machine” Hinrich in the playoffs had the best assist to turnover ratio for the entire team. Not saying I want him back, unless it’s at a reasonable price for his production, but “turnover machine” is a bit hyperbolic, IMO.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
9:18 pm
Section 303 it really does not matter who they bring in as the new GM. Gearon Jr wants a puppet so he can “pull the strings” from his office.
And yes I agree with you its just BS until he is introduced as the new GM of our Atlanta Hawks..
High-sider
June 22nd, 2012
9:26 pm
@Buddy Grizzard
““I find it hilarious how High-Sider has heavily criticized Westbrook throughout this series, even though Jamal Crawford plays the exact same way as Westbrook.”
No comparison between Westbrook and JC1. Westbrook leads his team on deep playoff runs. JC1 nuts up in the 2nd round…” – Buddy Grizzard @12:03pm dated 6/22/2012, FTPB
I guess [as you (Buddy Grizzard) would say] Jamal Crawford’s “nutting up” in the 2nd round of the playoffs is better than Kirk Hinrich’s “nutting up” in the 1st round of the 2012 playoffs against [the] Boston [Celtics]. Dude [Hinrich] only scored two points from the beginning of the 3rd quarter of Game 2 vs. Boston to the end of the 4th quarter of Game 4 vs. Boston; that means, your boy, Hinrich, only scored two (2) points in 10+ quarters [125 minutes] of playoff basketball. Please remember that Game 3 vs. Boston was a(n) (single) overtime game.
The MF [Hinrich] was a straight [up] “bust(er)” in the playoffs for the Hawks this year. Don’t forget your boy, Hinrich, lost his starting position [in this year's playoffs] to Marvin Williams of all (Hawks) players. We’re talkin’ about Marvin “The Duck” Williams.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
9:27 pm
The only way I would agree to starting over is with new ownership. Present ownership along with Rick Sund cannot be trusted in turning this franchise into a title contender..See past four years.
This season maybe the last for this mature core who have played together for years and have
already peaked several seasons ago.
Change is coming..The question is how much and what time line?
44
2156
Jae Evolution
June 22nd, 2012
9:32 pm
Thunder’s pick could probably be had for cheap, they are looking to not add any guranteed salary with extenstions coming for both Harden and Ibaka. Late 1st round will still be a lot of quality and value picks.
Clarification
June 22nd, 2012
10:03 pm
“Dude [Hinrich] only scored two points from the beginning of the 3rd quarter of Game 2 vs. Boston to the end of the 4th quarter of Game 4 vs. Boston; that means, your boy, Hinrich, only scored two (2) points in 10+ quarters [125 minutes] of playoff basketball. Please remember that Game 3 vs. Boston was a(n) (single) overtime game. ”
Funny that you mention 10+ quarters, since Hinrich only played the first 3 quarters of that OT game. So there’s one blow to the old credibility. And tell me High-Sider, what do YOU think Kirk Hinrich’s PRIME DUTY was with the Hawks? I’ll tell you since you wouldn’t answer anyway:
To play defense, which he did decently. You can throw Rondo’s stats up all day, but since Kirk didn’t guard Rondo exclusively, it proves only that Rondo was effective against the Hawks overall. But as Buddy Grizzard can tell you, MC had an entire blog that showed Hinrich’s defensive effectiveness against Rondo:
http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/05/06/atlanta-hawks-reining-in-rondo/
There you were yapping about Rondo getting a triple double. And there MC was explaining that it didn’t happen on Hinrich’s watch. But hey, if the facts disagree with how you WISH it was, then you’ll stick your fingers in your ears and say “la la la la la I can’t hear you”. Did you even READ that blog?
Now about Jamal: What was Jamal’s prime duty with the Hawks? To score.
Yet in Jamal’s last 4 games he only scored 29 pts. That’s a whopping 7.5 ppg, from someone WHO’S JOB IT IS TO SCORE! In the second round of the playoffs WHEN WE NEEDED HIM MOST!
His last 2 games were particularly horrid: In 51:29 Jamal scored 10 whole points on 3-19 shooting. He was 0-7 from 3 point range. 10 points in 8 quarters of basketball. From a gunner, as you describe him.
A gunner who averaged almost 5 shots per game more than Hinrich did in this years playoff, which clearly indicates who was SUPPOSED to be scoring and who was not.
Did I mention his prime duty was to score? Epic fail. As I said before, you’d do better as a JC1 fan to not mention Hinrich’s scoring, because when you do, I’m parading Jamal’s very worst here for all to see.
O'Brien
June 22nd, 2012
10:28 pm
2 years ago, the ASG interviewed Avery Johnson. Did anyone really think he was in the running?
I think the Danny Ferry rumor is a smoke screen. The current GM (Rick Sund) has not (officially) decided if he will retire or not, and his contract is not up until June 30. The assistant GM (Pendergraft) is commenting on draft picks. The option on the HC has already been picked up. Why would the ASG bring in a GM this late?
O'Brien
June 22nd, 2012
10:32 pm
As for bringing back the same bench, I will repeat what Rod was saying from the beginning of the season. You cannot rely on our bench players in the playoffs.
I think the main reason they are interested in bringing back the same bench is because they will be paid the league minimum (imo).
LD:We are going to have to make sure we are strengthening our bench and guys who can fit in with the core..
I amso tired of hearing about the core…
KevinM
June 22nd, 2012
10:52 pm
Rick Sund’s last day as GM is June 30. The draft will be over and the FA pool will begin. Does anyone else see the irony there?
We have a GM who may or may not be back and may not be decided upon until after the draft.
We have a GM who may be gone prior to the start of the FA process. Doesn’t that tell you there is no work being done to prepare for available bodies?
I can see the scenario now…..GM to go Sund and his staff decide to go with the best available athlete despite having needs at SG, PG and C.
He picks a PF because that’s where the depth is in this draft.
We don’t need him, but we have him just in case, similar to the JC2 draft. We have 2 SGs who get the max of the minutes and we’re going to bring in a guy who’s best attempt to get playing time consists of firing it up every time he gets it. He impresses LD enough to try to move him at PG as a backup to Prime. Our drafted PG from ‘09 just sits and watches for 36mpg.
You see what I’m getting at here? There are no plans…everything is being made up along the way. We have a 1 month GM and a 1 year coach making decisions that impact at the minimum the next 5 years. You have to get this draft pick and the guy has to be an NBA player the next 4 years.
Now you know why comments about bringing back the entire bench so there is no mystery about finding players, dealing with negotiations for free agents that other teams are interested in.
The GM is going to take the easy way out and try to sell you the same car that you want to get rid of….lots of mileage, but the GM sees lots of ‘dependable’ miles left and considers your asset one of the best in the industry.
This line of thinking has no place in today’s NBA. We’re going to be looking at resigning 5-7 vets at the minimum provided that no one else will claim them.
I dont’ see T-Mac back…other than that, our roster will be just like last year’s and it won’t survive a season without numerous injuries.
Dawg
June 22nd, 2012
10:53 pm
It’s horrible to be a fan of such a poorly run franchise. It’s horrible to see such ineptness. The Hawks management and ownership do EVERYTHING wrong.
Dawg
June 22nd, 2012
10:56 pm
Do we need a GM at all? We simply hire the players who are left over every year? We aren’t really interested in Ferry. What would he do? Why does the NBA let this ownership continue?
Does Sund have an internet connection yet?
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
10:56 pm
We really have no idea what we could get for Josh. Even if we could trade Josh for a lottery pick, is 1 year of Josh worth:
4 years of Thomas Robinson?
MKG
Beal?
Drummond?
And any of those guys would almost certainly make us weaker this season, w/o Josh.
So do I want to see what we can do in 2012/13 with josh, and then probably lose him? Or do I want a lesser team next season, unless an incredible trade comes up, and have some cap flexibility and maybe a piece for the future?
And with Josh’s salary gone, even if you draft #2, your still about 9 million under where you would be with Josh here. So about 52 million. So technically you could sign a guy for about 6 mill to get to the cap (your 7th player), and then use the full mid-level for 5+ mill (your 8th guy) and be at 63+ mill. – then be at about 64.7 mill with the #23 pick for the 9th guy – and fill out the roster with vet min./2nd round/DLeague types.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
10:57 pm
The above is assuming that the cap is somewhere around 58 mill again, and Luxury Tax around 71 mill.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
11:08 pm
So if Charlotte would do Josh for the #2 pick straight up, you could field a team that looked like this:
C – Al/ZaZa
PF – Robinson/Ivan
SF – Marvin/Jeff Taylor
SG – JJ/Jamal (Mid level)
PG – Teague/Andre Miller (6 mill+ to get to the cap)
And depending on what Ivan signed for, have about 65.7 mill in salaries (if Ivan signed for 1 mill – he may sign for more) for those 10 guys.
But you could tweak that all day long – draft MKG instead of Robinson, sign Nash or somebody instead of Jamal or Miller etc. – But the salary slots are the same.
The wildcard is – you’d have to do something with Marvin before the next season if you wanted to re-sign ZaZa and Teague realistically, without going into Luxury Tax territory.
Grandad
June 22nd, 2012
11:17 pm
Lang Greene reporting:
The Hawks and Danny Ferry are talking about the Hwks GM position.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
11:19 pm
Danny Ferry even looks like Rick Sund. Will the nightmare never end?
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
11:21 pm
Reports are the Heat, Thunder, and maybe the Bulls want out of the 1st round because they don’t want the guaranteed contract a 1st round pick has.
Grandad
June 22nd, 2012
11:23 pm
Sorry;
didn`t realize it had already been reported.
The Next Great GM
June 22nd, 2012
11:24 pm
the atlanta hawks have got to be the dumbest franchise in the history of the nba…every year every decade its the same thing with the hawks…wen we need a point guard we draft or go after a center wen we need a center we sign a foward..in order to become successful you need a complete team and a focus hardworking franchise with owners who has there players back..al joe and josh all came to management and requested that the team go after a true center before the 2011-2012 season and did the stupid spirit organization do that NO! instead we brought in 2 more guards 2 more small fowards wtf!..now i will agree the hawks had one if not the best bench in the league this year but lets be real for one second..the atlanta hawks will never i repeat NEVER advance past the second round let alone compete for a title intill the realize that the center position is the most important cuz the center controlls the paint..marvin williams will never amount to anything and is a waste of 7 million dollars hell they can pay me that and il play worst than marvin if thats what they want…al is not a center he is a poward forward give it up and stop trying..joe is not a 30 point scorer thats not his game make him take a pay cut…and last but not least josh smith is the hawks best player and who we should build the team around for the past three years hes been snubbed out of the allstar and is the most underatted player in the nba…HAWKS if you want to get past the champs in MIAMI or the bullys in indian and the rising Knicks i suggest you listen to me and sign josh smith trade marvin and a couple first round picks try to bring in howard if that attempt fails and more than likely it will you should try to go after on of the top 5 free agent centers this summer as well as draft big….anybody with any sense can see that the hawks are a good team but are to small and ti we get a true center we will only make the playoffs…..P.S. plz notify the hawks ownership that i will take half of sunds salary give me four years and i promise a title for the HAWKS!!!!!!
Grandad
June 22nd, 2012
11:25 pm
Sorry,
I did not realize, this had already been reported.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
11:26 pm
Even if Mike Miller and James Jones retire, the Heat still have over 69 mill in salaries committed to 9 players next season – so they’re in the Luxury Tax to get to 13 players, unless the Tax threshold goes way up.
And Chicago is trying to salary dump Deng. I tried to tell ya’ll Chicago was in a terrible cap spot with Boozer, Rose, Deng, and Noah. They got close to 60 mill committed to those 4 guys next season – and all of them get a raise the season after that as well. Then Rose, Boozer, and Noah get more raises into the future, even with Deng coming off the books.
And their owner hates the Luxury Tax like our owners does.
And the Luxury Tax is getting punative in the very near future.
The Next Great GM
June 22nd, 2012
11:30 pm
im in favor with going over the luxary tax for the simple fact that every team that went further than we did in the playoffs did… you have to spend money to make money and get talent look at the yankees…
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2012
11:41 pm
Like others have pointed out, those fatal mistakes Cleveland made that squandered their ability to build around LeBron were made before Ferry took over.
It’s hard to tell from Ferry’s time in Cleveland how good he really is. He didn’t make any especially inspired moves (maybe the Shaq and Mo Williams trades, that’s about it) and did make several questionable ones early in his career (the Larry Hughes signing in particular), but he also had to deal with the pressure of having to find players who would make LeBron happy and salary cap constraints that predated him in large part. And there was really no feasible way for him to add another legit superstar next to LeBron unless the rumors of the Cavs shooting down the JJ Hickson for Amare trade are true.
I think he’d definitely be better than Sund but I don’t see him having a Presti-like impact on the team.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
11:45 pm
Hey Grandad, Gearon Jr maybe getting ready to put a new pair of shoes? lol
Grandad
June 22nd, 2012
11:46 pm
If Danny Ferry is in fact interested in the Hawks;
what a wonderful day it will be.
# 1. He wishes for full autonomy:
Great, wonderful, terrific, anything to get the basketball out of
the hands of Sund, Pendercrap, and Gearon.
# 2. A drawback is supposedly Joe`s contract.
I disagree; for if one is smart, motivated competitive;
they want a challenge !
# 3. He has played for the Spurs;
plus now he is completing his 2nd managerial stint with S.A.
which just happens to be the best organization in the NBA
for the last two decades. (give or take a couple yrs)
# 4. He will be different … something, anything, different is good.
It means there is ‘`hope`’.
Nahila
June 22nd, 2012
11:59 pm
Somebody get me the smelling salts because it they bring most of last year’s bench back, then I have either list consciousness or the Hawks management has. No way they bring back the 2 reserve centers, please draft or free agent sign a younger one. I would offer Hinrich a small salary based on last year’s production but give him Large incentive bonuses for points scored over 2012 base year plus defense stops, rebounds, and assists, Hinrich makes it if he plays well. I would send out Joe Johnson in the amnesty clause as he will only get worse as a player. Resign Josh Smith. Draft another big center and trade Williams for a 3 point shooter.
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
June 23rd, 2012
12:28 am
I love womens track and field…..My God!!!
Yall know we dont make moves before August, There will be no trades,new GM or coach.. How do u not have a new GM in place with the draft less than a week away….SAD
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
June 23rd, 2012
12:30 am
June 29, 2012 @ 11 pm Sund signs his new contract…..
mykhalc
June 23rd, 2012
12:42 am
“The Summer of Sameness is operating in the 4th gear. Now, we just need the final touches on the GM decision and we’ll be at top speed going no where.”
@Joe…LOL…yep!! same drool on the same pillow ’cause i’m still in the middle of the same f’n nightmare!!!
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
1:03 am
If Sund and Pendergraph are on the way out,
-&-
the ASG does not get Ferry signed before the draft;
I can see;
Sund / Pendy draftin` Furkan Aldemir @ 23,
then saying:
Furkan yawl ATL !
Then ol` Furk stays in Europe fer about 8 yrs.
-while-
we never hear of him again.
Kinda reminds me of Alain Digbeu ?
Alain is 36 yrs old now by the way;
has anyone ever seen him? … summer league ? anything ?
SteveW
June 23rd, 2012
1:12 am
About TMac returning – besides the friction between he and LD – This season there will be far fewer back to backs – No more compressed schedule, so it’s a regular schedule. TMac may be more valuable, unless he’s just officially done healthy wise.
And the non-compressed schedule should help teams with better players 1-9, and less dependency on the back part of the bench. Less injuries, less need for incredible depth this season.
So we need the best players 1-9 or 10. Still pay attention to the back part of the bench as always, but it’s not going to play the vital role it did this season on so many teams.
And starters will be able to play closer to 35 mpg this season. The schedule is just not quite as brutal.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
June 23rd, 2012
1:38 am
Same Ole Hawks
Stuck On Stupid And Not Looking To Improve
Its Hard Out Here For A Hawks Fan
falCans
June 23rd, 2012
2:20 am
Wonder if I’m the first to report the Hawks are looking to sign DFerry as GM. Widely recognized as an influential architect of the Spurs
High-sider
June 23rd, 2012
2:27 am
@Clarification
“…Funny that you mention 10+ quarters, since Hinrich only played the first 3 quarters of that OT game. So there’s one blow to the old credibility. And tell me High-Sider, what do YOU think Kirk Hinrich’s PRIME DUTY was with the Hawks?…” – Clarification @10:03pm dated 6/22/2012
Hinrich’s primary duties were to play good perimeter defense and to provide solid to good offense (average about 12-14ppg) in the playoffs due to the injuries/absences of Al Horford, Zaza Pachulia and Josh Smith (especially in Game 3). As you (Clarification) stated, Hinrich played the first three quarters of that (Game 3) overtime but, yet, he (Hinrich) did not score a single point – zero, zilch, nada, nyet, nothing, goose egg, etc. With the absences of Pachulia, Horford and Jo. Smith, coupled with the fact that he (Hinrich) was a starter in Game 3 vs. the Boston Celtics, Hinrich should have scored at least 12-15 points in that game. I’m not letting you (Clarification) or Kirk Hinrich off the hook for Hinrich’s Game 3 abysmal (offensive) performance. Hinrich scoring zero (0) points in Game 3 vs. Boston in the 2012 playoffs (in approximately 26 minutes of playing time) is both unacceptable and inexcusable. To make matters worse, Hinrich followed up his Game 3 “clunker”/”stinker” by scoring only two points in Game 4 vs. the Boston Celtics. This is a guy (Hinrich) who is supposed to be a savvy, veteran combo-guard with the ability to “spread the defense” and knock down (wide) open perimeter shots.
————————————————————————————————–
“…Now about Jamal: What was Jamal’s prime duty with the Hawks? To score.
Yet in Jamal’s last 4 games he only scored 29 pts. That’s a whopping 7.5 ppg, from someone WHO’S JOB IT IS TO SCORE! In the second round of the playoffs WHEN WE NEEDED HIM MOST!
His last 2 games were particularly horrid: In 51:29 Jamal scored 10 whole points on 3-19 shooting. He was 0-7 from 3 point range. 10 points in 8 quarters of basketball. From a gunner, as you describe him.
A gunner who averaged almost 5 shots per game more than Hinrich did in this years playoff, which clearly indicates who was SUPPOSED to be scoring and who was not…” – Clarification @10:03pm dated 6/22/2012
The Chicago Bulls and coaching staff made a defensive adjustment to focus on Jamal Crawford by double-teaming him (Crawford). The Atlanta Hawks coaching staff did not counter this defensive strategy implemented by the Bulls. The Atlanta Hawks should have had Jamal Crawford playing off (of) the ball on offense by running him (Crawford) off (of) picks, screens, curls, etc. to free him up to get (him) good or quality looks/shots from his (Crawford’s) “sweet spots.” Personally, I was most frustrated with Crawford’s Game 3 performance vs. the Bulls in the 2011 playoffs because he (Crawford) scored only seven (7) points on 3-7 (42.857%) shooting from the field. Jamal Crawford should have taken more shots in that Game 3 vs. the Bulls.
P.S. Clarification, your criticism of Jamal Crawford is concerning his performance in the second round (EC Semis) of the 2011 playoffs – a playoff round in which the Hawks did not advance. My criticism of Kirk Hinrich is concerning his performance in the first round of the 2012 playoffs – a playoff round in which the Hawks did not advance. Do you see “the difference” in the Hawks’ two post season performances of 2011 and 2012 – one (post season performance) with Jamal Crawford and another (one) without him (Crawford)? In the post season of 2011, the Hawks WITH Jamal Crawford, ADVANCED to the second round of the playoffs, however, in the post season of 2012, the Hawks WITHOUT Jamal Crawford FAILED TO ADVANCE to the second round of the playoffs. Who would you (Clarification) say is more valuable to the Hawks post season success – Jamal Crawford or Kirk Hinrich? I (would) say Jamal Crawford (is more valuable than Kirk Hinrich is).
“You Can’t See What I Can See” (You blind baby, you blind from the facts.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5uqPUZxZHg&ob=av3n
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
June 23rd, 2012
2:50 am
HIRE NIQUE AS THE GM
vava74
June 23rd, 2012
3:19 am
Back from the grave of former Hawks’ Blog regular just for a short stint:
All these discussions (draft, bench, trades, …) are moot.
The main problem last year was LD and anyone overlooking this is a fool.
The roster was good, good enough to compete at a high level, however, it was a self managed roster, “coached” by an enabler who has NO COMMAND over the personnel and has no F..CKING CLUE how to counter-adjust and exploit match ups and extract the best out of the skill sets of his players and that only made changes/strides on account of injuries making players unavailable to him.
We have quality players, but the play like a bunch of guys who are regulars on pick up games.
Once quality coaching gives the opposing side the advantage that distinguishes a pick up team like ours and a contender, our game play collapsed.
That is that and there is no other argument needed to explain what we have.
If you look at the underlying quality of our roster, we were/are very good, but the most talented players in this team never had or have been so long away from quality coaching that when push comes to shove they simply produce brain farts after brain farts.
I am talking about both JJ and Josh.
JJ was coached by:
Pitino, Dantoni, Woody and LD. Neither is a really good coach (I don’t know who coached JJ at the college level, but it was too long ago to make an impact right now).
Pitino’s coaching is all about full court pressure and not much else. The results in the NBA were visible for everyone to see.
Dantoni is all about run and gun and his “system” needed an unbelievably good PG (Nash) in order to be a self managed style which worked, but in true X’s and O’s, Dantoni is crap.
Woody and LD is what you saw: one made JJ an ISO-only player and the other does not have the balls to change that and lets JJ play to his weaknesses (his ISO does not work against playoff defenses).
Josh?
High-school to NBA and since he entered he has had Woody and LD…
Do you think that with this type of coaching Josh will suddenly wake up and know about good basketball when has been coached by these two fools?
Everyone loves Horford’s maturity because Horford is still relatively fresh coming out of a good basketball program that preached team play and solid balanced effort (O and D) by everyone instead of hero-ball.
But even Horford was (is) slipping into the dark side under this idiot coach who was OK with him becoming an almost exclusive jump shooter.
LD getting another year even before a new GM is hired is the mark of a sorry ass franchise that is not worth the trouble of us following like hooked fools.
Sure, I will still watch some games next year, but I will not pay the League Pass again and will only pass by over here every now and then.
High-sider
June 23rd, 2012
3:30 am
“…Pitino, Dantoni, Woody and LD. Neither is a really good coach (I don’t know who coached JJ at the college level, but it was too long ago to make an impact right now)…” – vava74 @3:19am dated 6/23/2012
Joe Johnson played college basketball at the University of Arkansas and was coached by Nolan Richardson (in college).
High-sider
June 23rd, 2012
3:51 am
I believe the Heat will probably pursue a sixth man-type shooting guard who can provide consistent, quality perimeter shooting and “instant offense” off the bench (e.g., Ray Allen, Jason Terry or Jamal Crawford). I hope both Ray Allen and Jason Terry hate the Heat too much to sign with the Champs (and vice-versa) thus leaving the door open for – yes, that’s right – Jamal Crawford aka “The Difference” aka @jcrossover.
High-sider
June 23rd, 2012
3:54 am
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1231641-nba-free-agency-2012-jamal-crawford-and-hottest-shooting-guards-on-market
Jae Evolution
June 23rd, 2012
7:00 am
1. Package Marvin Williams to Brooklyn Nets for Morrow and their 57th pick. LD gets the shooter he has wanted and we get rid of Williams awful contract, Nets get a young wing, a position they lack to move them along. This also eliminates us having to look to overpay a Jamal/Allen type in free agency.
2. Try to get Bulls/Thunder/Heat late first pick for cheap they are set more or less team wise and don’t want to add guranteed salary, their picks could be had if we were aggressive.
3. Draft a combination of Fab Melo and a wing whether Harkless/Miller/White/Jones. Second round preferably a PG slot or another wing.
4. Re-sign T-Mac, Ivan, and Pargo the rest will see the door.
5. Pursue Omer Asik at all costs, Chicago will NOT be able to re-sign him if he is even slightly overpayed for.
Teague/Joe/Josh/Al/Asik — Pargo/Morrow/Draftee/Zaza/Melo — Reserves: Mac/Ivan/2nd rounder
None of this will happen, but I wanted to play GM for a day.
Jae Evolution
June 23rd, 2012
7:12 am
Also I know very little of Scott Machado’s game, but if we were able to get him in 2nd round he would be starting on the second unit, a pass-first PG over a much more trigger happy Pargo.
Big Daddy
June 23rd, 2012
7:42 am
There were times early during the regular season when I thought we had a great bench. To see Vlad hitting those 3’s from the wing and Green spotting up and hitting the open shots and Pargo coming in an upping the tempo. Not too mention Ivan bulling his way for rebound and scores. T-Mac showed real flashes of his old self on both offense and defense. All of them gave me inspiration and hope.
As the season wore on there were several issues that became apparent to me.
Ivan is imho opinion a time bomb waiting to go off. Although he can play well in long spurts, his meltdowns are scary. The fact that LD sent him home for disciplinary reasons during a road trip speaks volumes. Even after that, him getting into the face of a fan after a game says this guy, in a full season, is not going to make it, no matter what his basketball skills are.
Pargo became inconsistent with the good teams and his minutes when down significantly. The same can be said about Green.
T-Mac continued to give hope and provided the much needed leadership for the second unit when he was on the floor. He still has a tendency to get full of himself sometimes but, overall he did a good job. I don’t know if it is still in him to do it again.
I have always been a Stackhouse fan. However, the player I remembered is no longer there. The years have worn on him to the point where I believe he should be ready to move to the coaching ranks where I think he will do well.
We need players on the bench who can come not only come in a play their roles but to also do them consistently. Not just with the bad teams. However, given our salary constraints I don’t know how we will able to get the players we want. We need a GM who can be creative and truly understand what the team needs. Not the cheapest or the easiest to get.
Zaza continues to be a great player coming off the bench and if we can get a true center with some moves around the basket that who should be our starter. No small task for any GM.
There has been lots of talk about getting rid of Josh. Everyone seems to forget how poorly the team played when he was out for a few games toward the end of the season. The team did not suffer as much with Joe or Al out as it did with Josh. He does so much for this team and unless we get someone super to replace him, this is going to make the 2nd worse move for this team behind giving Joe that contract.
Paddy
June 23rd, 2012
8:27 am
Well,that summary did not energize the buying public. ASG will not or can not spend the money, neither should we!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
8:34 am
@ Vava74
Preach it man
FIRE LD AND GET A REAL COACH ASG ONE FROM A WINNING ORGANIZATION! You don’t ever hire from within unless you know this coach got what it takes everyone and the world knew LARRY DREW DIDN’T HAVE WHAT IT TOOK! EXCEPT YOU DASG.
You(ASG) talk about how you got highest payroll like it’s something to be proud of when in reality NFL teams and other NBA teams know how to spend their money wisely it’s something you learn as a kid apparently none of you ASG knuckleheads know what that means.
STOP TRYING TO TRADE JOSH HE’S THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE WILL WATCH THIS SORRY EXCUSE OF A TEAM ON THE FLOOR ANY NIGHT.
It surely isn’t Horford, Johnson, or Marvin they want to watch. No knock against my man Horford, but it’s just the truth. Josh = Excitement Horford = Tim Duncan except maybe a little better as far as excitement goes.
This draft is fools gold the only legit player and he might not be is Anthony Davis there may be a few sleepers like Austin Rivers and what not, but this draft won’t be as deep as 09 10 or 11.
KevinM
June 23rd, 2012
8:51 am
Danny Ferry huh? I think we could do better……….LeBron’s swan song in Cleveland…..
“Besides Jamison, Cleveland also will acquire Clippers guard Sebastian Telfair.
Ferry tried to find a #2 to LeBron, but it cost him his job. Nothing against making changes, especially when you know what you have is definitely broken. Shaq and the return of Ilgauskas didn’t help matters either.
Ferry built his team to be able to beat Orlando (sound familiar) but that he didn’t consider Boston a contender. I can’t applaud his draft record either, but he almost got Amare for JJ Hickson…that today would have been a steal.
Based on Danny’s playing days, who Cleveland traded to get him and then bring him back and fail to keep LeBron home, wouldn’t you think Cleveland would despise this guy more than LeBron?
I wanted to pile on the thought of Ferry coming here, but in thinking about it, he didn’t stand pat with a team that he inherited.
So if Ferry can come in and make lemonade our of sour lemons with Marvin and talk someone into taking him or talk the owners into swallowing that albatross disaster of a contract that Sund signed him to, I’m all for it. A player option for 2013 at 7.5M? Are frickin kidding me?
Sund has done very little with what was presented to him. We have moved 1 starter in what, 5 years? That’s insane to accept.
Do we have 1 draft pick left that has made our roster? Obviously, that tells you Sund doesn’t believe in the draft, and his history should tell you that. Pape Sy is a NBDL project and you wouldn’t hear his name if he was on a roster there either.
Sund’s as a GM was a horrid decision, and one I was 100% against when he got here. I don’t like the way he goes about his business, and his interviews are short of being wretched.
Name me the best FA we have signed since Sund has been GM? Joe doesn’t count.
All this tells you that Sund has no idea how to grow a business. He has been taking money for his ‘advice’ and don’t cop out telling me its the owners who have limited him. If anything, Sund and his assistants have wasted money bringing in rookies for workouts when you know you aren’t invested in developing them. Applaud that bench if you want….it was a useless resource when needed the most.
The ASG has spent money, they have wasted money. They have wasted out time trying to convince us LD is the guy. What Sund has done has absolutely not made us better. What is it about Atlanta that brings in GMs who have done nothing in their career? Remember once the rumor about Jerry West?
We’re 14 games away from being in the NBA Finals. We’re 2 games better than teams that didn’t make the playoffs. That ought to tell you where we are at.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
9:15 am
This team doesn’t need to change a thing. East Finals next year and STILL the best team in Atlanta.
Hawkfan
June 23rd, 2012
9:36 am
Keep Ivan, Green, Pargo, Damp (old but not many centers out there and I thought he played pretty good at times)
Need better perimeter defender like Damien Wilkins. Nice to upgrade to one who also shoots the ball well. Biggest thing our bench or starters lack is shutdown defender (Pietrus, for example)
Start ZaZa over Marvin or better yet get Marvin out of my sight. Fire LD cause he gets out coached against every good coach in the league. Hire a defensive minded HC and get tough defensively and on the boards. Resign Josh.
northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
9:47 am
For those of you who don’t believe in stats ( real, advanced, or fantasy ), or don’t believe that they can tell you a good chunk of the story about something, please disregard this post.
For those of you who can interpret how stats can validate or disprove a perceived belief, please keep reading.
The following is a statistical breakdown of “one of the deepest teams in the league”, with specific focus on what the bench gave us ( Hawks ) and what the opposing team’s bench did against us ( Opponent ). Their perspective rank across the league in that category will be beside the raw statistical number.
This can also be viewed as what the Hawks bench gave us offensively . . compared to what the Hawks as a team did defensively vs the opposing team’s bench. Viewing it this way will give the rankings in each category a little more meaning
2011 – 12 REGULAR SEASON STATS
( I won’t even bother viewing them overall, because the playoff performance will bring them down )
EFFICIENCY ( NBA.com style )
Hawks . . . . . 33.6 ( 17th )
Opponent . . . 35.5 ( 18th )
POINTS PER GAME
Hawks . . . . . 30.2 ( 21st )
Opponent . . . 31.8 ( 18th )
REBOUNDS
Hawks . . . . . 13.9 ( 22nd )
Opponent . . . 14.8 ( 14th )
ASSISTS
Hawks . . . . . 6.4 ( 15th )
Opponent . . . 6.2 ( 8th )
STEALS
Hawks . . . . . 2.7 ( 18th )
Opponent . . . 3.0 ( 25th )
BLOCKS
Hawks . . . . . 1.1 ( 30th )
Opponent . . . 1.8 ( 18th )
TURNOVERS
Hawks . . . . . 4.8 ( 15th )
Opponent . . . 4.7 ( 21st )
FIELD GOAL %
Hawks . . . . . 43.7% ( 10th )
Opponent . . . 43.9% ( 22nd )
3 POINT %
Hawks . . . . . 38.2% ( 4th )
Opponent . . . 34.7% ( 18th )
FREE THROW %
Hawks . . . . . 76.2% ( 6th )
Opponent . . . 73.9% ( 20th )
So for those of you who can use stats to formulate a “profile” of our bench, what does it say about “the deepest team in the league”?
northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
9:55 am
I forgot to add MINUTES
Hawks: 17 min per game ( 22nd )
Opponent: 18 min per game ( 15th )
Clarification
June 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
“As you (Clarification) stated, Hinrich played the first three quarters of that (Game 3) overtime but, yet, he (Hinrich) did not score a single point – zero, zilch, nada, nyet, nothing, goose egg, etc. ”
That’s correct. He was 0-3 from 3 and did not attempt a 2 point shot. So what? He averaged less than 5 shots per game, but you want him to score 12-14 points? He better shoot better than Jamal for that to happen. But, guess what? That wasn’t Kirk’s job.
“P.S. Clarification, your criticism of Jamal Crawford is concerning his performance in the second round (EC Semis) of the 2011 playoffs – a playoff round in which the Hawks did not advance. My criticism of Kirk Hinrich is concerning his performance in the first round of the 2012 playoffs – a playoff round in which the Hawks did not advance. Do you see “the difference” in the Hawks’ two post season performances of 2011 and 2012 – one (post season performance) with Jamal Crawford and another (one) without him (Crawford)?”
Sure I see the difference. Jamal’s epic fail was all the more pitiful because the stakes were that much higher in the second round. We needed him to do well, even more than we needed Kirk in the first round this year. Jamal was a more important cog, failing to turn.
That’s easy to see, but thanks for pointing it out to the rest of the blog..
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
10:11 am
Well my ranting is over for now. Honestly as fans we should be calling BS on ASG they are giving LD and some of these players a pass when the reality strikes it actually doesn’t look that good.
Rad, Pargo, Hinrich, Damp, and Collins must go. I was never for bringing Hinrich here at the cost of 4 total players(draft pick included).
When you look back at last year’s draft and see just what we could have had that makes the Hinrich Trade that much worse. Faired and Marshon Brooks(Hometown hero) were both there at 18 and beyond. Then there was Chris Singleton although we didn’t need another PF at the time.
As for the rest of them as the season wore on they became highly useless if Pargo does return I can only see him as 3rd string PG not even 2nd string.
As for the draft itself it’s official draft a Center or find a SF that can replace Marvin for a much lower cost as of right now.
Trade Marvina Williams to Cleveland for their #24 they might welcome that trade.
northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
10:12 am
And what did I say the Hawks may do last week?
Re-sign
- Pargo
- Hinrich
- Ivan
Add
- 1st round pick
- 2nd round pick
- young free agent
- young free agent
Except the Hawks may opt to go with one vet free agent, and one young one.
Not only do they “like their core”, they also like their mediocre bench
St Louis issa callin...
June 23rd, 2012
10:17 am
I feel sorry for u sir, having to cover this sorry excuse for a franchise. The Hawks organization is the pus on the scum on the flea on the dying dog.
northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
10:28 am
Add your comment
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
8:34 am
STOP TRYING TO TRADE JOSH HE’S THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE WILL WATCH THIS SORRY EXCUSE OF A TEAM ON THE FLOOR ANY NIGHT.
It surely isn’t Horford, Johnson, or Marvin they want to watch. No knock against my man Horford, but it’s just the truth. Josh = Excitement Horford = Tim Duncan except maybe a little better as far as excitement goes.
***********************
Ray . . no one on this team is a box office draw. If Josh represented a player that people wanted to see on a nightly basis, the Hawks would draw much better on a weekday night vs a non-elite team. The Hawks would be able to draw 16,000+ people vs a team like Golden St, if Josh was a true box office draw.
People who go to Hawks games aren’t saying . . . “man, I can’t wait to see Josh Smith tonight.”
They go to Hawks games because they’re hardcore fans of the team . . because a star from another team is in town . . or just to have something to do for the night.
It’s not because of one player on the team.
KevinM
June 23rd, 2012
10:56 am
If you poll the fans, who would they want to see most at Philips, I bet it’s Josh.
And Zaza may have a better result than the other 2 captains.
The point is, if Josh is gone, are you going to hang banners of the 2 captains and say come see the Hawks at the factory? Because there won’t be any thought of any ‘Hi-lights’.
I would trade Al if it was me, but only if Josh will play on the block.
If he is Jumpshooter Josh, than I’m ready for him to walk as well.
And can we please quit the Marvin for #1 draft picks? The Dream won’t give you a #1 for Marvin!
Some results from the playoffs this year:
Going position for position in matchups, our won/loss at each position:
SF – 3 W 3 L
PF – 5-1
C – 0-6 (Garnett killed us)
SG – 3-3 (we won a game on each side of the matchup)
PG – 1-5 (Ouch!)
Bench – 2-4 and Boston has a horrid bench
So if I’m looking at this overall, I’d say our PG and C are our weakest positions. Garnett and Rondo were the 2 factors we couldn’t overcome.
I wonder what position we’re going to draft at #23? My guess is the only position where we had an advantage against Boston.
KevinM
June 23rd, 2012
11:01 am
MC, when you say we had a solid bench last year, does that mean average?
16th is where I see us in the league based on n’cyde’s averages.
It’s all smoke and mirrors for our management team. They blow it, we try to filter through it.
UGA
June 23rd, 2012
11:24 am
Can someone answer this?
If the Hawks use their mid-level exception or bi-annual exception in full, then fill out the roster with veterans for the league minimum, does this put them in the luxury tax?
Astro Joe
June 23rd, 2012
11:32 am
I’d be careful about isolating Presti as the main factor in the Thunder’s success. I would consider that he had a new owner who moved the team to a new market that had new fans of a professional sports team. Presti did a great job of dismantling the Sonics and rebuilding the Thunder. But he was clearly enabled by an owner and community that is not found in Atlanta. Also, there is NO indication that the next GM will be able to dismantle and rebuild. In fact, there is absolutely every piece of evidence that would suggest they won’t dismantle (anytime soon) and rebuild. So yeah, a “Presti impact” should not be expected, especially if the next GM won’t have 3-5 consecutive top 15 draft picks to help re-make the roster. Presti has one more year before he will be evaluated more fully on a “post-rookie scale” bases. And this is where Ferry can match wits with his other peers in a similar spot… a roster with some long-term contracts, declining players, little rookie contract “relief” and a need to get better.
northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
11:57 am
Sund and the other people in the Hawks front office can’t fool the majority of fans who follow this team on a nightly basis. There are too many things that people can look at, that will prove that the only team this bench did on a consistent basis, was shoot the 3 pointer. But even that prowess went down the tubes in the playoffs, with the Hawks bench shooting 23.3% from three in the playoffs.
The bench needs to be balanced out as much as the starting team does. We just can’t have a bunch of 3 point gunners on the court + Ivan and/or Zaza, and expect to get it done vs good teams. There has to be some versatility amongst that 2nd team that will enable them to compete vs most teams they’ll play.
Sund ( or the new GM ) needs to limit the amount of offensive options that Drew can go with.
Wish list
June 23rd, 2012
12:08 pm
My wish list?
Convict and sentence the Homosexualchildpredator Jerry Sandusky.
Fire Sund
Fire hawks beat liar Michael Cunningham who will never point the conversation in the right direction.
Trade 6′ 10 1/2 265 lbs center Al horford for a “willing” defensive specialist center who has enough offensive skills to make 10 or 12 points.
So far?
1 down 3 to go.
Paddy
June 23rd, 2012
12:09 pm
KevinM…..if you poll the Atl folks on what they would like to see at Phillips, it would be the circus not the Hawks.
Exactly!
June 23rd, 2012
12:16 pm
“If you poll the fans, who would they want to see most at Philips, I bet it’s Josh.
And Zaza may have a better result than the other 2 captains.
The point is, if Josh is gone, are you going to hang banners of the 2 captains and say come see the Hawks at the factory? Because there won’t be any thought of any ‘Hi-lights’.
I would trade Al if it was me, but only if Josh will play on the block.
If he is Jumpshooter Josh, than I’m ready for him to walk as well.”
I agree totally. Stop putting Josh on the wing and perimeter trying to make him a SF so that you can make room for the boring, lackluster, non productive (defensive or offensively) Al horford.
Josh is a top 4 Pwr Fwd. Al is not even a top 25 power forward. LEAVE JOSH RIGHT WHERE HE IS!
You’d have to be a pot smoker and rolling up big ones to trade Josh but then with Michael Cunningham and the ASG, the phrase is :
Stupid is as Stupid does.
Derek Jeter
June 23rd, 2012
12:19 pm
Paddy that is a really good name for you. You must be a patty. We play basketball and not games in the ATL. Are you some kind of sissy or something? Take your sorry as to the circus, We trying to win ball games B!!tch.
JustSayinB
June 23rd, 2012
12:20 pm
Hawks managemnet talking to Danny Ferry as the possible new GM. A step in a positive direction.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8085969/sources-atlanta-hawks-talk-danny-ferry-general-manager-position
ryan
June 23rd, 2012
12:20 pm
One word to describe the Hawks CHEAP same old same old stuff .
O'Brien
June 23rd, 2012
12:21 pm
People always talk about Josh as the player Hawks fans want to see. That may be so, but the fact is…here is where the Hawks rank in attendance;
2012: 23rd (15,199 per game)
2011: 22nd(15,648 per game)
2010: 18th (16,545 per game)
2009: 20th (16,748 per game)
2007: 26th (15,594 per game).
I am not a statistician, but the numbers suggest that since 2009, the average attendance has gone down every year..while ASG continues to stand pat.
ryan
June 23rd, 2012
12:21 pm
Danny Ferry if that is true anyone would be better than Sund .
TMACfan
June 23rd, 2012
12:37 pm
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=469443259750870&set=a.367811313247399.97794.367810133247517&type=1&theater
Bruce
June 23rd, 2012
12:44 pm
Unbelievable that the Hawks think they can keep the exact same team, plus their draft picks that may or may not make the team, and improve from last year. This is why we will never have a winner with the ASG as owners. Not to mention the uncertainty at GM and our inexpensive coach.
Jacobite
June 23rd, 2012
12:45 pm
“LEAVE JOSH RIGHT WHERE HE IS!”
Josh will be the one leaving after next season. Better get what you can for him. But the ASG thinks they are so great that Josh won’t want to leave. Wrong!
Josh will be gone by this time next year. Book it. He’s way too smart to stay with this ownership train wreck. And who could blame him?
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
1:04 pm
Ray
‘`STOP TRYING TO TRADE JOSH HE’S THE ONLY REASON
PEOPLE WILL WATCH THIS SORRY EXCUSE OF A TEAM `’
Ray – your kinda like Skip Bayless;
you seem to be trying to turn basketball into an individual sport,
rather than a team sport.
r.e. [..." LBJ won the / his championship "...] -Skip Bayless-
not the team / Heat won the Championship.
The Hawks actually won alot of games.
The Hwks actually are a winning team.
-yet-
You say people only come to see Josh Smith:
*not the team
*but Josh Smith`s performance
*and all that goes with it:
carping at the officials, launching innefective long jump shots,
pouting, moody, overhandling the ball, but mostly;
the incurious simpletonian way he goes about playing the game.
Really !
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
should have been *[you`re] rather than *[your]
G-dad the dumb-ass
northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
KevinM . .. but what does that mean?
Do those same people who would rather see Josh play, be willing to go down to Philips on a Tuesday night to see him play vs Milwaukee? Just because he’s a “fan favorite” does not mean that he’s a “box office draw”.
That place isn’t buzzing to see Josh and Zaza play.
And honestly, who cares about some marketing nickname that the team has come up with for the arena. That hasn’t translated into anything tangible on the basketball court. Maybe TOTAL CHANGE is what this franchise needs.
Hell, call the arena the “Fundamental Fun House” or the “House of Talons” for all I care. Keeping players around for a meaningless arena marketing nickname is not the way to operate around here.
Jacobite
June 23rd, 2012
1:12 pm
I resent you guys implying that I am Sautee the Troll. Even though I am, I have a right to resent you guys pointing that out..
RESPECT THE TROLL…
Superman II
June 23rd, 2012
1:13 pm
Enter your comments here
Superman II
June 23rd, 2012
1:15 pm
Out side of Josh and JJ there isnt much to come see about the hawks. Al sure aint putting nobody in the stands. Marvin? make me laugh.
Josh needs some help. Period.
Paul Clifton
June 23rd, 2012
1:16 pm
Cosigning
“G-dad the dumb-ass”
Amen
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
1:18 pm
Astro Joe
I agree with you 100% on Presti.
For example:
If Portland takes Durant # 1; where is OKC today.
Honestly;
time may bear out that taking Harden over Steph Curry was
the wrong choice ?
Right now – it looks to be the correct choice !
At the time – I would have taken Curry. – We shall see ?
I`m not knocking Presti;
I`m only saying that one must look at these things
through the prism of time.
nelson
June 23rd, 2012
1:30 pm
For a big man in the second round, Kyle O’Quinn looks much better for the Hawks than Henry Sims who’s been projected as our pick by nbadraft.net.
northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
1:32 pm
O’Brien
June 23rd, 2012
12:21 pm
People always talk about Josh as the player Hawks fans want to see. That may be so, but the fact is…here is where the Hawks rank in attendance;
2012: 23rd (15,199 per game)
2011: 22nd(15,648 per game)
2010: 18th (16,545 per game)
2009: 20th (16,748 per game)
2007: 26th (15,594 per game).
I am not a statistician, but the numbers suggest that since 2009, the average attendance has gone down every year..while ASG continues to stand pat.
************************
That’s an incredible 5 year trend. We’re back at 2007 attendance numbers? Wow.
But Josh or any other Hawk player is packing them in huh?
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
1:39 pm
@ Grandad
The problem is it’s the truth do people really go to a Knicks game to Watch Mike Bibby?
I do realize it’s a team sport, but in this era of time superstars and or legit All-stars like Josh Smith win you the NBA Championship.
It’s still a team sport down to the core, but as of right now unless I see Kevin Durant, CP3, Blake Griffin walk through the door Josh Smith is the closest thing we got to a Superstar.
When ASG finally trades him it will be Nique 2.0 he’ll go to a team like Boston Doc Rivers will actually do something The knucklehead L.D can’t and reel him in and then we’ll all be looking like the idiot laughing stocks of the NBA again as we always have.
Like I said Josh is the closest thing we got to a Superstar and he’s a legit All-star.
People afraid that Josh will keep shooting Jumpshoots if he moves to SF so what.
In a league where Rondo has a broken 3pt shoot I say why not because of Rondo on/off again 3pt shoot Boston Celtics got to ECF and almost NBA Finals.
In a league where Chris Bosh doesn’t even have a 3pt shot, but he shot it out there anyway it led the heat to win one of the games in the series you could say, and ultimately the championship(although I don’t want to say that.
northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm
If the Hawks aren’t committed to winning a title, they may as well bring in Allen Iverson to be the 2nd or 3rd PG. Might as well bring in what the fan base may respond to, even if he is well past his prime.
As a fan in the arena, A.I. would definitely bring out the females/groupies. The eye candy in the arena alone may be worth the price of admission.
northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
1:58 pm
On a side note . . here is your All-WNBA “Pretty Girl” team
G – Skylar Diggins ( yes, I know she’s still in college )
G – Candace Wiggins
F – Jennifer Lacy
F – Swin Cash
C – Candace Parker
Slimjr
June 23rd, 2012
2:01 pm
Imagine gentlemen if we had the Knicks roster down at Phillips?
Would they sellout every night they played or come close too doing just that?
Would they peak my interest enough to go down and spend money? You bet your next paycheck I’d be down there cheering loud!!!!!
This Hawks roster.. Think I’ll save some money..Not buying what Gearon Jr is selling……Yawn…
Slimjr
June 23rd, 2012
2:16 pm
Did you hear the story about the guy that has the worlds heaviest scrotum!!! His sack has broke the worlds record with an astonishing weight of [hold on] and get a grip:
100 lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 OMG? Huh? What? Why? Yikes? OUCH? C’mon man…….LMAO!!!!!!
That means each ball weighs: 50lbs + 50lbs= 100lbs…. Shoot……
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
2:21 pm
Ray
I go to watch the Hawks because they are -My- team.
I do prefer certain opponents;
not because of superStars, but due to the competition.
Yes;
I realize I`m old-school, but I dfo not think I`m a loner.
Honestly;
I think folks are tiring of the SS “treatment” which was popularized
during the Jordan era. [Jordan Rules]
Being inundated by 24 hours of Lebron by his own personal network
[ e s p n ] is tiresome to all who do not live in the Big Mkts.
*Such as baseball fans who do not live in NYC or Boston.
I enjoy the game of basketball;
and beginning to reject the b a s t a r d ized version of;
[ S t e r n ] basketball, AKA; professional wrestling = scripted.
Stern does not realize that ” competition ” sells !
-Yes-
legit SuperStars sell tickets !
Like it or not Pistol Pete sold tickets in ATL.
I think Steve Nash would sell tickets in ATL.
(for awhile)
But sooner or later / winning is what sells.
UGA Bulldawgs WIN & they sell out.
Brave WON & they sold tickets.
Dale Murphy was the most beloved Brave of all-time;
-but-
he couldn`t sell tickets.
1991 = Braves started winning [Championships];
= Braves started selling tickets !
The Hawks have won;
the problem … as I see it …
Our Hwks need to start selling Hope !
Hope that we can -actually- win a Championship !
1991 Braves fans believed.
Right now – even though the Hwks win – even I do not believe.
Danny Ferry – could sell some ” Hope ” – I believe !
Slimjr
June 23rd, 2012
2:23 pm
His custom pants require a third leg…. Just wow………Hehehehe
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
2:23 pm
*[dfo] is not a word
however, do is a real word
so we`ll go with *[do]
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
2:24 pm
The person who jacked my screen name at 9:15 am should know that I almost never wake up that early on Saturdays.
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
2:29 pm
Ditch~Weed
Good to hear from you.
Respectfully,
Phillip Masters
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
2:43 pm
There is nothing I like better than licking a diuretic baby calf in the as, and the smell…. love it love love it !
Phillip Masters
June 23rd, 2012
2:48 pm
Co-signing the Co-signer
Cosigning
“G-dad the dumb-ass”
Amen
Phillip Masters
June 23rd, 2012
2:53 pm
Also co-signing grandad he is very very old
‘Yes;I realize I`m old-’
Grandad you remind me a lot of Sandusky only no one has testified against you yet.
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
2:53 pm
One more thought on Presti:
He selected Westbrook in `08 over K.Love.
Now that is debatable;
What a tandem Durant and K.Love would be
for the foreseeable future !
Then you continue this line of thought:
Were he to have had the foresight to draft Rubio in `09 ?
Durant / K.Love / Rubio ?
Two Americans and a Spaniard ! … (for those who keep count)
Louis Amour
June 23rd, 2012
3:02 pm
Co-signing Phillip Masters @2:53 pm
Phillips Masters
June 23rd, 2012
3:04 pm
That is my new nickname for Ol as Grandad, Sundusky. Grandpappy when I say Sundusky know thats a code name for Grandad, his twin.
Phillips Masters
June 23rd, 2012
3:14 pm
Grunduski
prison mike
June 23rd, 2012
3:27 pm
My prerequisite for Ferry as GM is to trade Marvin at any cost. If he can do that he’s a worthy GM. Duck has been a bust. Even after butt surgery he’s still as ineffective as before.
Sund has obviously not tried hard enough trying to make any trade for him. Any trade is a good trade when it comes to Duck.
As for our own free agents… Willie and Ivan should be retained. The rest should immediately have their rights withdrawn.
Also it’s a good time to trade Zaza while his value is at its peak. He couldn’t net us a worn down Brad Miller at one time. I’m curious as to how his trade value will be this summer.
Buddy Grizzard
June 23rd, 2012
3:32 pm
“I also am not buying Kirk as the perimeter defender. For one, he can’t guard big 2s or 3s.”
Najeh please tell me somebody was trolling your handle. Kirk can’t guard 3’s? Has he ever played small forward?
Buddy Grizzard
June 23rd, 2012
3:39 pm
“He selected Westbrook in `08 over K.Love.
Now that is debatable;.”
Highly debatable. Jury is still out on if Rubio is going to ever be half the player that Westbrook is. Sure klove would have been nice with Durant but I’d rather have Harden than Rubio on my team.
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
3:50 pm
C`mon Ditch~Weed
That was disrepectful.
‘`one cannot be betrayed if one has no people`’
-Kobayashi-
‘`I have many people, yet I am never betrayed`’
*[P.Masters]
Why – because I respect loyalty
We shall meet and talk next season as you once indicated.
Buddy Grizzard
June 23rd, 2012
3:59 pm
“Do we have 1 draft pick left that has made our roster?”
Um, 4 of the 5 Game 6 starters were Hawks draft picks. Only JJ was obtained through trade among our regular starters.
“PG – 1-5 (Ouch!) Bench – 2-4 and Boston has a horrid bench”
But we have the deepest bench in the NBA!!! Rondo murdered Teague and Pargo and people on this blog talking about Teague’s not a bad defender and backup PG is not a position of need or can easily be addressed in free agency. What… by bringing back Pargo? smh at the wannabe Billy Knight basketball “experts” on this blog.
“But he was clearly enabled by an owner and community that is not found in Atlanta.”
Another troll post? Did the OKC owner or community hire Rob Hennigan and Troy Weaver to help run his scouting and drafts? No, I believe that was Presti.
“But even that prowess went down the tubes in the playoffs, with the Hawks bench shooting 23.3% from three in the playoffs.”
But we have the deepest bench in the NBA!!! But seriously, based on Sautee’s assessment of Ferry’s draft record in Cleveland, I hope we sign him before the upcoming draft. If he finds us a rotation player at 23 and ish-cans LD after what is sure to be a third consecutive disastrous season, he will be my favorite GM of all time. Hawks front office must be smoking crack to think this bench was competitive in the playoffs. If Sund stays, so do Pargo and Green. If not, I don’t think Ferry keeps half the scrubs we had on our bench last year.
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
4:08 pm
Buddy Grizzard
I was just following a line of thinking that everything
of this nature should be viewed through the prism of time.
Suddenly Presti is the hot name in basketball management.
Sure, he deserves it.
All I`m saying is he`s had some luck,
and some of his picks can be debated.
Drafting is not a Science;
even though we all are genius [myself included] with hindsight.
Marvin at the time; was not the horrendus pick, he seems now.
Sheldon was a worse pick, as far as knowing at the time. [it was bad]
In retrospect;
K.Love is / would have / been a better choice [perhaps] ?
Rubio – only had they not drafted Westy.
All I`m saying is;
Presti had some LUCK – (Prtlnd choosing Oden # 1)
after that let`s wait & see ?
___________________________________________
My greater point:
If we are fortunate enough to get Ferry;
I`ll not worry who he drafts, who he trades or keeps,
-until-
perception.
at some point … results … will begin to influence
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
4:10 pm
If Ferry is hired:
our 2nd round pick will be a rotation plyr.
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
4:11 pm
If LD is incompetent at using the resources he is given:
Ferry will sack him.
Astro Joe
June 23rd, 2012
4:14 pm
From ESPN’s Chad Ford (who now has the Hawks drafting Harkless).
Royce White was scheduled to work out with the Hawks on Friday but canceled. Later Thursday, two different sources said that the Celtics had told White they’d take him with their 21st pick.
Now, “promises” are incredibly hard to nail down, in part because both the players and the teams will deny them. The whole point of the promise is to shut a player down so he limits workouts for other teams, and also to keep where he’s really going obscured.
So it’s no surprise that on Friday morning I was already getting strong denials that White had such a commitment from the Celtics.
The sources pointing White to the Celtics are strong ones, and we’ve moved him to No. 21 in our Mock Draft, version 8.2.
However, it’s very possible that the promise could be to the Hawks at No. 23.
Astro Joe
June 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm
Buddy, if you are among the lowest paid GMs in the league, do you think that you have the budget to hire among the best staff to work for you? If you are among the lowest paid head coaches in the league, do you think you can hire a top assistant coach? If you have a rabid fanbase that attends every game, consumes everything related to your local team and likely enables among the higher advertising rates for locally broadcasts games in the league 9normalized for market size), then I suspect that you have a revenue stream that may allow you to handle your business in a manner that is different than franchises that struggle to operate the scoreboard.
Presti was ideal for a rebuilding franchise. Dumars was able to piece together a powerful roster with a single starter that he drafted (I think, Tayshaun). Dumars has sucked to rebuild through the draft. For all we know, Presti may not have as much success in the next phase of his team’s existence. The sample size is incomplete and he shouldn’t be used as the gold standard after a 4 year run with a single team.
SteveW
June 23rd, 2012
4:27 pm
It’s funny to me that so many players are refusing to work out for the Bucks. I never knew that was like an option in a certain sense. And why do so many guys not want to play for the Bucks?
The weather? Small market?
Buddy Grizzard
June 23rd, 2012
4:28 pm
“Rad, Pargo, Hinrich, Damp, and Collins must go. I was never for bringing Hinrich here at the cost of 4 total players(draft pick included).” – Ray
Agree with the first sentence. As for the second sentence we obtained a starting-caliber guard for four players who were at the time bench-quality players. John Wall wants the Wizards to draft a shooting guard. He doesn’t think JC2 is good enough to be a starter. Remains to be seen if Singleton will ever be a starting-caliber player in the NBA. Sund did a great job with that trade.
Astro Joe
June 23rd, 2012
4:35 pm
From ESPN’s David Thorpe:
NBA Team Needs: Celtics
The Atlanta Hawks have a problem, and there’s no easy solution. In Al Horford they have a franchise-level center, but Horford also excels at power forward, which actually is his best position. He missed virtually the entire season because of a pectoral injury, yet the Hawks still qualified for the playoffs and made a good showing, helped by Horford’s late return.
And therein lies the problem: Atlanta is good enough to stick in the playoff hunt year after year, yet because of high salaries it is stuck because it can’t really upgrade with veteran players. The trade market for some of the Hawks’ overpaid players such as Joe Johnson and Josh Smith is small. (Although in a league that saw even Gilbert Arenas get traded, a trade market apparently exists for everyone.)
That leaves the draft. But it is hard to see any draft pick cracking the starting lineup for this team as currently constructed. The Hawks do have holes to fill, but a late first-round pick will have a tough time affecting a team that is close to contending but has little salary flexibility.
Trade option
We’ve avoided talking trades, but for Atlanta, this one would be hard to pass. The Charlotte Bobcats seem primed to move their No. 2 pick, but few teams have players good enough to make that deal. Remember, it’s not as if teams are thinking Thomas Robinson is better today, or will be tomorrow, than the player they would be trading away for him — it’s how cheap his salary would be compared to his expected production. Likewise, for Charlotte to close that deal it’d need to get a potential franchise guy with a contract that is in line with the player’s age and production.
Trading Al Horford could net the Hawks the No. 2 pick and free up needed cap space.Enter Horford. He immediately improves the Bobcats on both ends of the floor. He becomes their best player, the face of the franchise and an excellent recruiter on the free-agent front. The Hawks then could grab Robinson and use him the way they use Horford (Robinson is very comparable to Horford). I don’t expect Robinson to ever be as good as Horford — who is probably the most underrated player in the league — but he certainly could end up getting there, or close to that level.
There are numerous ways to complete that trade, with Atlanta possibly getting rid of a bad salary in Smith (bad contract but still a huge talent upgrade for Charlotte) and getting Bismack Biyombo in one scenario. It’s a restart for Atlanta, but it’s one that gives the Hawks hope for a new beginning as they shed another salary or two while developing their young talent.
Perfect fits: Evan Fournier, Fab Melo
Fournier is perfect for two reasons; he fills a need at shooting guard, and if the Hawks decide to move a veteran salary or two and try for a quick rebuild, they can leave Fournier in Europe for one more season while they tinker with their roster. With Kirk Hinrich and Johnson as the starters, as well as Tracy McGrady, the Hawks are desperate for young legs at that position. Fournier has the size to play some small forward, and he matches up well next to Johnson if Johnson can’t be moved.
Melo would give the Hawks an athletic center who can push Horford to his more natural power forward position. He’s a great candidate for Horford to mentor (Horford is one of the best leaders in the league), and if the Hawks don’t trade Horford, they will eventually trot out two large — and mobile — bigs to anchor their defense. If Horford is a full-time power forward, the Hawks easily can live without Smith. Melo gives them that flexibility.
Kind-of fits: Tony Wroten Jr.
I don’t love the Hawks taking a young point guard, as I see Jeff Teague continuing to grow into a solid player. They’d be better off with a veteran to bring in off the bench. But Wroten gives them the flexibility of playing Teague with the rookie, as Wroten can defend most NBA 2s. He can also play with Hinrich, and if he learns to play intelligently soon (his decision-making is a big question mark), he can pair with Johnson to form a huge backcourt.
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
4:37 pm
San Antonio is presently looking for a valuable piece
to enhance their team at pick # 59.
They feel like they can find gold in this years draft.
Players, such as:
Justin Hamilton; Mike Scott; Drew Gordon; Kyle O`Quinn;
Quincy Acy; Robbie Hummell; Zach Rosen; JaMychal Green;
-or- Bernard James will be there at # 59.
Not all, but one is likely to be there and they will be ready.
They will have done their due dilligence.
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
4:44 pm
One thing I know is we don’t need anymore PG’s right now that we can’t get through Free Agency.
When I made the proposal of trading Marvin Williams to Cleveland someone said that it wouldn’t happen thing is I’m talking about for the #24 pick not their number 4.
They could be willing to part with 24 for Marvin and another player.
KevinM
June 23rd, 2012
4:47 pm
“northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
KevinM . .. but what does that mean?
Do those same people who would rather see Josh play, be willing to go down to Philips on a Tuesday night to see him play vs Milwaukee? Just because he’s a “fan favorite” does not mean that he’s a “box office draw”.
That place isn’t buzzing to see Josh and Zaza play.”
N’Cyde, you know this fan base is still talking about the ‘07 Celtics playoffs when Zaza went toe-2-toe with KG. It is still abuzz in the arena and people draw to Zaza.
As for Josh, like Ray said, he’s the closest thing we have to a star, which is ironic, because he can’t even get on an all-star team. If you look on NBA commercials, who are they showing if there is Hawk representaion? Josh, flying through the air on the Sprint commercial…
Josh, playing the drums in the background with his headband on in the BIG band promotion.
Joe and Al are not faces of this franchise. Again, I was suggesting that is you polled the fans, they would say they are coming to see Josh and Zaza (IMO) more than the 2 other captains. That’s all.
And I’ve always said there is no HomeTeam Brandon Leak Highlight Factory quotes without Josh Smith. The whole marketing plan would be revamped.
And so much for the ‘Playoff Factory’…..jeez, very lame.
“Buddy Grizzard
June 23rd, 2012
3:59 pm
“Do we have 1 draft pick left that has made our roster?”
Um, 4 of the 5 Game 6 starters were Hawks draft picks. Only JJ was obtained through trade among our regular starters.”
Buddy, let me phrase it clearly this time. What draft pick since the hiring of one Ricky Sund has he brought in here that has stuck on this roster? Teague, and by default because of the injuries to Kirk IMO.
Kirk was handed the job, JC2 was being given minutes ahead of Teague.
Teague is the only PG we have in retrospect because the ASG/Sund and their forward thinking has killed any flex in our cap.
If JC1 could have played the point, and he would have accepted the vet min, he would be given those minutes.
LD and Sund are clearly not on the same page. They think versatility and mismatches are created by our roster.
I don’t see too many teams over .500 having trouble guarding our guys or going down the middle of the lane.
Northcyde showed you the blocked shot nimbers. Josh is no longer in position to help those nimbers. His career high is 130, the last year of Woody…..and how many jumpers was Josh taking then?
He was shooting 50% in ‘09 compared to 45% this year. And with a shortened season, he jacked up 102 more shots, but he didn’t make any more than 09-10. On top of that, he shot 100 less FTs this year than in 09-10.
I think it’s a huge reason why we haven’t moved forward in the win column. Josh’s game has had a downturn in regards to the success of this team. LD isn’t reigning him in.
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
4:50 pm
Astro Joe
Why would he pull out of a w/o with [Hwks];
if `n he had a ” promise ” from [Hwks] ?
That don`t make no sense.
Then again – these are the [Hwks]
Everything I`ve heard is Celts = promise to R.White.
____________________________________________
I`ve been the greatest advocate of Andrew Nicholson this side of Slimjr.
-However-
If we can get Moe Harkless:
Folks … we should count our blessings !
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
4:56 pm
Ray
I would trade Marv for Cleveland pick # 33 or 34
-and-
filler [probably Walton] … *(drft picks carry no value in a trade)
Then choose Machado / non-guaranteed but,
he will be our back-up pg.
KevinM
June 23rd, 2012
4:59 pm
AJ, I’d like to hear your review on Thorpe’s consensus about the Hawks, who probably just wrote the most detailed article anyone outside of Atlanta has written about this team.
Questions I have:
1) This is a tricky situation because Josh is overpaid?
What am I missing here? Josh is not overpaid in relation to other Hawks on this roster. I could give you JJ and Marvin that is killing this team.
2) Smith for the #2, then draft Robinson? Has this guy not seen our team? We don’t have enough PFs, that we’re going to trade one on the last year of his contract for a potential PF and the strongest of any position on this team?
3) Al for #2…AJ, this draft slot is a joke. Charlotte isn’t getting a bona fide quality NBA big man for that pick. It ain’t happening.
People say we overvalue our roster. The entire league outside of the #1 is overvaluing their draft pick.
Hell, Al Jefferson was moved for 2 #1s. We should get just as much for Josh or Al. Doesn’t have to be the same draft….but they are worth that.
So AJ, if we move Josh or Al and grab the #2, give me the guy who fits for us. I know who I would pick, but want your input to see how you would rework our starting lineup.
Because the #2 has to be considered a starter going forward, or this draft really isn’t very deep huh?
Buddy Grizzard
June 23rd, 2012
4:59 pm
The sample size is incomplete and he shouldn’t be used as the gold standard after a 4 year run with a single team.
JSS
June 23rd, 2012
5:00 pm
You know, the more time goes on, the more this scenario is like when John Drew was here during Hubie’s run… That team was overmatched everywhere along the roster with the possible exception of Roundfield, but it overachieved (excluding Drew)…
Now, Woody and Drew coaching midgets but with this roster and the number of players incapable of understanding or stepping up to their roles, the similarities are just that!
Buddy Grizzard
June 23rd, 2012
5:00 pm
Let me try that again:
“All I`m saying is he`s had some luck, and some of his picks can be debated.” – G-Dad
Well, that’s the interesting thing. Those picks were highly debated AT THE TIME. Westbrook and Harden were both considered reaches where OKC took them. That’s why Hennigan is now the GM of the Orlando Magic and Troy Weaver is being heavily discussed as a GM candidate with multiple teams. Because when you take risks and get it right, it shows that you know more about basketball than other people.
Without question Durant fell into his lap. I didn’t project him as a three-time scoring champ by his present age. Oden was the consensus top pick, Seattle happened to have the second pick. That’s the way the ball bounces. Chicago was lucky to get Jordan, Cleveland was lucky to get LeBron. That’s the way it goes. Without Durant, no question OKC would be a middling playoff team at best and Presti wouldn’t be held in the same regard. But it’s what he did with the picks after Durant that put his team in the conference finals last year, NBA finals this year, and probably several more NBA finals to come. If Presti was as unsuccessful with free agency and the draft as Cleveland’s front office was before and after they drafted LeBron, we’d be having a different conversation about Presti.
“If LD is incompetent at using the resources he is given: Ferry will sack him.”ac
If LD uses his available resources competently this year, it will be the first time in his career.
“The sample size is incomplete and he shouldn’t be used as the gold standard after a 4 year run with a single team.”
If OKC makes the NBA finals again next year, I daresay he’s the gold standard. Not every GM has the benefit of several star players getting together and deciding to take less money to play on the same team. Presti assembled his talent through hard work, not through a once-in-history stroke of good fortune like how Riley assembled the current Heat roster.
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
5:19 pm
@ Grandad
I could go for that That would be our way of dumping Marvin
And then Amnesty Joe Johnson from the team just let him go I’d rather draft another SG in the second round only if they get both picks then watch Joe Johnson again.
I’m not a huge believer in stats, but I’ve said this before look back at Johnson’s this past season and he didn’t do anything worth being mention even on ESPN Top 10 or 30 for that matter.
In fact if it’s not for Josh half the games we competed in this year we probably would have lost them all regardless further reason we shouldn’t be so quick to trade Josh Smith.
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
5:26 pm
@ KevimM
Co-sgin
And Al Jefferson is about what Al Horford is and you can imagine what Josh Smith is worth.
ASKG Keeps undervaluing Josh when the reality Josh might be the sole reason we’re able to secure a #4 seed each year.
Got love for Zaza, Horford, and Teague, but even they probably realize it too it’s not rocket science. That’s why these other teams want Josh last year we were about to trade him for the bare minimum.
Which is a Damn shame cause in terms of value he’s worth New Orleans picks this year plus picks for next year and about 4 players two good and the other two mediocre maybe. Sh*t it’s so bad I might be undervaluing him still
cp
June 23rd, 2012
5:28 pm
Grandad I said the other day that if Harkless falls to the Hawks then they would be lucky.
I dont get the Fab Melo love. People see that he can block shots and is a 7footer but overlook the other parts of his game. He is a terrible rebounder, fouls a lot, no offensive game, and had trouble remembering the plays at Syracuse. Dude is being overrated due to his size.
cp
June 23rd, 2012
5:30 pm
Josh does not want to be here thats why he is being mentioned as being a trade asset. I dont see how hard that is to understand. He does not want to be here people. You trade him and get value for him rather than seeing him walk away for nothing. The way some people talk about Josh on here you would think this dude was a multiple all star and a member of a few all nba teams. I like Josh but he does not want to play here anymore.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
June 23rd, 2012
5:38 pm
“I dont get the Fab Melo love. People see that he can block shots and is a 7footer but overlook the other parts of his game. He is a terrible rebounder, fouls a lot, no offensive game, and had trouble remembering the plays at Syracuse. Dude is being overrated due to his size.” -cp
Jason Collins and Dampier are the same way. Terrible rebounders, fouls a lot, and no offensive game. Only difference is Fab Melo blocks shots.
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
5:44 pm
@ cp
I kind of stopped with the Fab Melo stuff, but like Worldwide Clyde is basically saying he’s better than the two we got behind Zaza and Al for that matter.
Kind of like Mcgee I’d rather have him than be stuck with Collins or Dampier.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
5:47 pm
“Najeh please tell me somebody was trolling your handle. Kirk can’t guard 3’s? Has he ever played small forward?”
That’s my point. The Hawks need a perimeter defender who can guard both 2s and 3s, particularly when they have to play LeBron and Wade four times a year. Kirk doesn’t fit the bill.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
5:49 pm
“As for the second sentence we obtained a starting-caliber guard for four players who were at the time bench-quality players. John Wall wants the Wizards to draft a shooting guard. He doesn’t think JC2 is good enough to be a starter. Remains to be seen if Singleton will ever be a starting-caliber player in the NBA. ”
Convenient to use Singleton to make this comparison, seeing as how Kenneth Faried was on the board at the time, would have been a no-brainer pick for this team, and just had a season better than any season Kirk has ever had in his entire NBA career. Horrible trade precipitated by LD’s mind-boggling decision not to play Teague.
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
6:05 pm
@ Najeh
Funny though in my opinion John Wall can’t talk to much he’s better than average run of mill PG’s like Sessions and Chalmers, but he’s not as good as most people think he is though. In fact I thought and still do think he’s a bit overrated.
NEW GM
June 23rd, 2012
6:11 pm
Trade Iso Joe to Houston for Kevin Martin, S. Dalembert, and their 1st round pick (#16 overall).
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
6:16 pm
Kirk averaged 8.6 points, 3.3 assists, and 0.8 steals in 28 minutes per game as the Hawks’ starting point guard in the 2010-2011 season. “Starting caliber” my ass. The Hawks gave up the #17 overall pick in 2011 for a bench caliber player.
SteveW
June 23rd, 2012
6:26 pm
Grandad – When you pick Manu Ginobili at #57, Luis Scola at #56, you can of course hope to find a useful player at #58 if your the Spurs.
They’ve also drafted Goran Dragic #45 and DeJuan Blair at #37.
They do well at the end of the 1st round also: Tony Parker #28
# 26 George Hill
#28 Tiago Splitter
#28 Ian Mahinmi
#28 Beno Udrih
#28 Leandro Barbosa
#26 John Salmons
And here’s a scary thought: In 2008 Miami drafted Micheal Beasley #2. #4 that year was Russel Westbrook. #5 was Kevin Love.
What if Miami would’ve drafted Westrook instead of Beasley? Scary for the rest of the NBA -
cp
June 23rd, 2012
6:27 pm
Cant block many shots if you’re on the bench in foul trouble all the time. I understand wanting a big but can we at least get a big who can play.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
6:29 pm
“What if Miami would’ve drafted Westrook instead of Beasley? Scary for the rest of the NBA -”
They would have had to salary dump Westbrook to sign LeBron/Wade/Bosh, just like they did with Beasley.
SteveW
June 23rd, 2012
6:35 pm
Kirk has played some spot 3 in his time.
And you can go to this link:
http://www.google.com/search?q=nba.com+draft+history&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
And see how basically every team has whiffed on draft choices. It’s not just the Hawks. Beasley #2 instead of KLove and Westbrook for the Heat? Now that’s pretty bad.
SteveW
June 23rd, 2012
6:39 pm
Najeh – But could you imagine a Westbrook/Wade backcourt, with LeBron at the 3? Forget about Bosh.
And if we did some tinkering, we may find a way the Heat could have kept Westbrook and still signed LeBron and Bosh. But even if not, they’d have about 10 mill to sign a decent Big or 2. The Heat somehow found a way to still sign Anthony, Haslem, and Miller that year of the signing of the Big 3.
I still shudder at the thought…
Melvin
June 23rd, 2012
6:55 pm
Astro,
I suggested trading Al similar to the same reason as David’s Thrope from ESPN. He’s a good player but the Hawks have to cut salary (mainly long term contracts), get value and flexibility in return to rebuild a roster that would exceed the 2nd round in the playoffs.
However, we (Hawks fans) knew as soon as the Heat signed the Big 3 (and especially now that they won the championship) that this Hawks organization were not going to commit to do the things needed to winning a championship. The ASG is satisfied with a team that win more games than it loses and making the playoffs.
High-sider
June 23rd, 2012
7:02 pm
@northcyde
northcyde
June 23rd, 2012
1:58 pm
On a side note . . here is your All-WNBA “Pretty Girl” team
G – Skylar Diggins ( yes, I know she’s still in college )
G – Candace Wiggins
F – Jennifer Lacy
F – Swin Cash
C – Candace Parker
——————————————————-
You couldn’t find a spot for the Atlanta Dream’s Lindsey Harding.
Astro Joe
June 23rd, 2012
7:13 pm
Kevin, i wouldn’t trade Al for pick #2 because I’m not sure that there is a guy in the draft that will be better than Al.
Ray, Josh apparently wants out. That changes everything.
Melvin, see my previous two points. And as I;ve said ad nauseum, I’m not risking opening the ‘13-14 season without Josh and Al. That, IMO, would be beyond a dumb way to clear cap space. The whole cutting off your nose thing.
TMACfan
June 23rd, 2012
7:17 pm
Terrence Ross shot up the Mock draft from #15-#20 all the way to around #7!!!
WOW
Astro Joe
June 23rd, 2012
7:20 pm
Buddy, IMO, he’d become the gold standard if for GMs who are demolishing and rebuilding. If the ASG make that decision, then he becomes the model to emulate.
High-sider
June 23rd, 2012
7:20 pm
@Grandad
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
should have been *[you`re] rather than *[your]
G-dad the dumb-ass
——————————————————————————–
“…You say people only come to see Josh Smith:
*not the team
*but Josh Smith`s performance
*and all that goes with it:
carping at the officials, launching [innefective*] long jump shots,
pouting, moody, overhandling the ball, but mostly;
the incurious simpletonian way he goes about playing the game.
Really !” – Grandad @1:04pm dated 6/23/2012
——————————————————————————-
What should “innefective” have been? ineffective? I’m just askin’.
Shamrock
June 23rd, 2012
7:20 pm
Test
Shamrock
June 23rd, 2012
7:25 pm
You know what you Hawks fans need? Is for the weak ### dude Najeh to stop blogging like he knows whats going on. Maybe after he quits rubbing on 10 year old little boys behinds he will have some knowledge. Go Celts!
ryan
June 23rd, 2012
8:13 pm
God i remember the last time we had the 2nd pick we picked Marvin Williams over Chris Paul do we really want embarrass our selves again i doubt the Bobcats trade the pick but if trading Al Horford means getting cap space i am all for it .
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
8:13 pm
Josh says he wants out, but to me it translates like if ASG doesn’t do something he will leave, but if they willing to compete I’ll stay long-term.
I like the deal for Joe Johnson and Kevin Martin plus Sam Dalembert(misspelled probably). I doubt they throw in the two first rounders maybe 1 of them and I’m sure it’s the #16 but it would guarantee a shot at say Moe Harkless someone G-dad is high on. Not saying I would or wouldn’t take him.
With #14 or #16 still wouldn’t get us Dion Waiters or Meyers Leonard.
Still it won’t matter not until they ASG at least come out and support Josh as leader of the team like I said before he’s no Kevin Durant, CP3, Lebron(Good thing), or Melo, but he’s the closest thing Hawks got to them.
Everyone trying to trade him when he’s not the problem far from it actually. Josh’s jumpers didn’t lose us all those games that most people keep saying. I’m not saying all his jumpers are great, but he also didn’t lose all those games that most people blame him for.
And Now if Josh does leave I’d understand you guys really undervalue the guy a lot more than you think. Horford as good as he can be is not on Josh’s level when you hear people talking about how they gameplan against the hawks it’s always Josh that is mention because they realize it’s Josh that changes the flow of the game he could be bad that other players(Joe, Al) must beat or he could be so good that he’s going to utterly destroy you himself.
Although I exaggerated a little you still get at least the jest of what I’m trying to say.
Sautee
June 23rd, 2012
8:15 pm
“Kirk averaged 8.6 points, 3.3 assists, and 0.8 steals in 28 minutes per game as the Hawks’ starting point guard in the 2010-2011 season. “Starting caliber” my ass. The Hawks gave up the #17 overall pick in 2011 for a bench caliber player.” – Najeh
Tony Allen: 9.8 points, 4.0 reb, 1.4 assists, 1.8 steals in 26.3 mpg
Thabo Sefalosha: 5.4 points, 2.0 reb, 1.5 assists, 1.0 steals in 21.8 mpg
Similar stats. Of course Hinrich is NOT the defensive stopper that these two are, but the point is the same:
Some starting twos in the league are starting because of their defensive prowess.
I’m assuming, Najeh, that you think they are “starting caliber” players. And, of course, I’ll acknowledge that if both of their teams were hurting for offense the way the Hawks are, things might be different.
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
8:16 pm
If we want Cap Relief Trade or Amnesty Joe Johnson and honestly Amnesty seems to be the only option right now.
Only teams I could see trading Joe to are Bucks and Rockets at the moment.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
June 23rd, 2012
8:24 pm
“Although I exaggerated a little you still get at least the jest of what I’m trying to say.”
What’s the gist of the jest?
tyger
June 23rd, 2012
8:31 pm
Hawks Easy Button 1.0 2012
Kyle Lowery J.Teague Daniel Gibson
J. Johnson W. Green Jeremy Hazell
T.McGrady Dray Green Quincy Miller
A. Horford I. Johnson V.Radmanovic
Z. Pachulia F.Melo F.Ezili
Hawks trade JSmith to Hou for KLowery, SDalembart, #16
Hawks trade MWilliams, #43 to Cle for D.Gibson, #24, #34
2012 Draft Order
#16 Quincy Miller, 6′9, G-F,
#23 Fab Melo, 7′0, C
#24 Draymond Green, 6′7, F
#34 Festus Ezili, 6′11, C
Big Ray
June 23rd, 2012
8:32 pm
What a bunch of hooey.
Same owners.
Same bum-a$$ GM (likely).
Same clueless cheap hire of a coach.
Same results. Back to Falcon football…
Sautee
June 23rd, 2012
8:35 pm
So, Big Ray, you mean that you DON’T think we had the best 1-15 roster in the league?
soullrenaissance
June 23rd, 2012
8:38 pm
Hinrich: “Talent-wise, we are one of the better teams in the East. You play in this league for a certain amount of time and you want to be on a winner. We will see what happens. I could be back here, or could not.”
Translated “I wanna play for a ring with a real coach. We have talent but no championship type of coach.”
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
8:41 pm
“Similar stats. Of course Hinrich is NOT the defensive stopper that these two are, but the point is the same:
Some starting twos in the league are starting because of their defensive prowess.”
I was talking about last year, when Kirk started at point guard. Those stats were to compare him to other starting point guards in the league last year to dispute the contention that he was a “starting caliber player”. I am the first to say that stats don’t tell the whole story, but if Kirk brought a bunch of intangibles to the table as the starting point guard last year, I didn’t see them.
Kirk is a backup 2 and nothing more at this point in his career. He can’t play the 1 on offense, as he emphatically proved over the course of the season. The question then becomes whether the Hawks are willing and able to bring Kirk back as the backup to only one position, while also going out and acquiring a legit backup for Teague. I don’t think that would be a very intelligent use of resources unless Kirk is willing to take the veteran’s minimum and the Hawks can find a backup point guard and perimeter defender on the cheap.
TMACfan
June 23rd, 2012
8:41 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought Joe moved to the 3?
Sautee
June 23rd, 2012
8:51 pm
“Kirk is a backup 2 and nothing more at this point in his career. He can’t play the 1 on offense, as he emphatically proved over the course of the season.”
Co-sign.
You and I have said ad nauseum that he shouldn’t play PG. IF, he were to come back, I don’t trust LD not to do the same as he did this year. I can’t see KH dropping to the vet minimum, but as long as LD is here, I’d rather not tempt him with Kirk at any price.
O'Brien
June 23rd, 2012
8:57 pm
KevinM,
Nobody will trade a top 5 pick for Josh because he only has one year left on his contract, and if a team has a top 5 pick, that means they are bad, and more than likely Josh will not resign.
gocanes1
June 23rd, 2012
8:58 pm
Any chance Atl moves Josh to Celts for both #1’s + Brandon Bass (sign/trade}?
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
9:03 pm
High-Sider
What should “innefective” have been? ineffective? I’m just askin’.
I failed spelling today.
I also never use spell check.
Thanks for bringing that to my attn.
My spelling was most ineffective today.
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
9:06 pm
“What should “innefective” have been? ineffective? I’m just askin’.”
High-Sider;
I also failed to use quotes above.
If Mrs Kimbell were still with us, she would be sorely disappointed.
O'Brien
June 23rd, 2012
9:07 pm
From hoopsworld;
Steve Nash, Chris Kaman, Grant Hill, Andre Miller, Ray Allen and Jermaine O’Neal are among the players who Miami could target with their mini mid-level exception, according to sources close to the situation. Those players can likely make more money elsewhere, but may be willing to take less to join the HEAT.
Another option for Miami is Brandon Roy, who will attempt to make an NBA comeback next season after retiring last December. Roy could be a low-risk, high-reward signing for Miami. If he’s healthy, he could be a significant contributor off of the bench. The HEAT can be patient with Roy, working with him throughout the season just as they did with Eddy Curry this year. Sources close to Roy believe he wants to sign with a contender..
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
9:08 pm
cp
I would rather have Miles Plumlee than Fabulous Melo.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
9:18 pm
I don’t know if anyone posted this, but Al Horford spoke to some Spanish website and dropped a couple of draft-related comments.
http://www.primerahora.com/complacidoalhorfordconlaquimicaensuquinteto-661505.html
According to Google Translate:
With a view to the NBA lottery
Regarding his Hawks, Horford said will be watching next week’s draw for NBA rookies to be held on 28 June for the next season
“We turn number 23 and I know the team will look for the best player available irrespective of position. I prefer more of a shooter Doron Lamb, Kentucky. But I do not mind if I chose a big man to help me in painting, as Festus Ezeli (Vanderbilt). Of course, I doubt they go after the brother of our point guard Jeff Teague, Marquis Teague (Kentucky), “said Horford.
TMACfan
June 23rd, 2012
9:18 pm
SIGN BRANDON ROY YESTERDAY!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
9:20 pm
Something tells me Al doesn’t watch much college basketball outside the SEC.
cp
June 23rd, 2012
9:22 pm
Granad many guys seem to want Melo because of his size and ability to block shots but they ignore the rest of his game. I really hope Harkless drops to us. I think him and Q Miller are going to be great value in the 20’s.
cp
June 23rd, 2012
9:23 pm
I meant Grandad
Buddy Grizzard
June 23rd, 2012
9:24 pm
“Al Jefferson is about what Al Horford is.”
Glad you’re not a GM.
“They would have had to salary dump Westbrook to sign LeBron/Wade/Bosh, just like they did with Beasley.”
Not really. I’m sure they would have kept Westbrook instead of bringing in Miller.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
9:27 pm
If the Hawks insist on going into next season with Teague/Joe/Josh/Al/Marvin/Zaza all on the roster again, my bench wish list would look like this (if money was no object):
Pass-first veteran backup PG (someone like Andre Miller)
Shooter (ideally someone like Ray Allen, although more realistically someone like Courtney Lee would be acceptable)
Perimeter defender (someone like Mickael Pietrus)
Rebounder/defender/tough guy inside to back up PF and C (Ivan is acceptable)
Someone to play Jason Collins’ role of defending the Dwight Howards and Andrew Bynums of the league (who would preferably be better than Collins or Dampier)
Once those roles are filled, I have no problem bringing back Kirk, Pargo, and whoever else. I would also like T-Mac to return, especially if the backup PG they find is more of a Pargo-like shooter than a pass-first facilitator.
jase
June 23rd, 2012
9:28 pm
Hindrich doesnt sound like he wants be here. good. we don’t want him anyway. Teague is MUCH better + re-sign Pargo. keep Ivan as well. and maybe Green. no way do you bring back Collins. Dampier. McGrady. Vlad. Stackhouse. them 5 HAVE TO GO. though i have to say, Stackhouse played good to be his age. the guy still had great energy and was knocking down shots more times than not. but considering his age… he has to go i believe.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
9:29 pm
“Not really. I’m sure they would have kept Westbrook instead of bringing in Miller.”
They dumped Beasley before the free agent period started. Salary cap rules wouldn’t have allowed them to keep Beasley and also have room for three max contracts. The same would have applied to Westbrook. Miller’s signing was irrelevant to that decision because it came after the three max contracts were added to the roster. In fact if I’m not mistaken the Heat used their mid-level on him.
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
9:30 pm
Buddy G.
” The sample size is incomplete
and he shouldn’t be used as the gold standard
after a 4 year run with a single team.”
” If Presti was as unsuccessful with free agency
and the draft as Cleveland’s front office was
before and after they drafted LeBron,
we’d be having a different conversation about Presti.”
1st – I said I was – not- knockin` Presti !
2nd – I also said – “we should look through the prism of time”
____________________________________________
Comparing with Ferry – however;
Ferry had cleveland in the NBA Finals 4th yr.
Ferry had [Cleveland] back to back – 60 win seasons !
Cleveland & OKC had / have young SuperStars.
* note – very comparible !
Najeh Davenpoop
June 23rd, 2012
9:31 pm
Of course I fully realize there is no way in hell that entire bench wish list comes to fruition, but I’m just saying those are the roles the Hawks should be targeting.
Slimjr
June 23rd, 2012
9:42 pm
C’mon All be real, your just saying all that chatter because you are drooling to play the 4 so you can showcase that finesse game? Huh? Show us the new fade away turn around set shot you have been working on? How are those power forward handles coming along? Can you put the ball on the floor yet to reset and gain new ground to get your shot off? Yea you probably cant wait to play the 4 [your natural position so say you] for good? Well good luck to you and your game…
“He would have to pay me to watch that ish” unknown author
Slimjr
June 23rd, 2012
9:48 pm
Cleveland with Lebron 61-21
Cleveland without Lebron 21-61
Was Danny Ferry the GM Sautee in both those seasons? Just asking?
Oh If only the Hawks had a Lebron James knockoff? LOL
Barkley may have got it right: “This is a player driven League”
Shamrock
June 23rd, 2012
10:06 pm
You know what you Hawks fans need? Is for the weak ### dude Najeh to stop blogging like he knows whats going on. Maybe after he quits rubbing on 10 year old little boys behinds he will have some knowledge. Go Celts baby!
Sautee
June 23rd, 2012
10:11 pm
Hey Slim, I wasn’t pushing for Ferry. I just listed some of his draft picks that seemed reasonable from a talent to #slot perspective. I have never looked at his total body of work as a GM to evaluate it.
Perhaps he’s a better talent evaluator than an administrator, who knows.
Sautee
June 23rd, 2012
10:16 pm
Slim, Ferry resigned from the Cavs a month before “The Decision”. So he was NOT there for the 21-61 season.
SteveW
June 23rd, 2012
10:32 pm
Najeh – Couldn’t they have renounced Joel Anthony and kept Westbrook? I think they traded Beasley because they thought they needed a defensive C in the hope of the Big 3 than Beasley – and maybe Beasley was smokin’ weed or something also.
And how did they sign Haslem? He got way more than the bi-annual – as did Anthony.
But the fact is the Heat blew the draft that year. At least the #2 pick.
SteveW
June 23rd, 2012
10:37 pm
If you trade Josh for the #2 pick – if that was even a viable option – you get whoever you’d draft #2 plus whoever you would sign with the 9 mill in savings from Josh’s contract. Of course this is ASG we are talking about. But if they would, maybe you get Nash for 6 mill to get us to the 58 mill cap (assuming it’s somewhere around that), and Allen for the mid-level. I doubt it, but maybe…
Because, w/o going into too much detail, you could actually spend a little more than 9 mill this season, because your 6th player would only bring you to 58 mill, not right at 61 mill, so you could spend more on your 7th player under contract.
SteveW
June 23rd, 2012
10:38 pm
So in the above scenario, you basically would trade Josh for the 2nd pick, Steve Nash, and Ray Allen.
Buddy Grizzard
June 23rd, 2012
10:49 pm
“I don’t think that would be a very intelligent use of resources unless Kirk is willing to take the veteran’s minimum.” – Najeh
Kirk will not be playing for the vet’s minimum next year, and he will continue to play both guard positions. Someone will see it as an intelligent use of resources.
“Any chance Atl moves Josh to Celts for both #1’s + Brandon Bass (sign/trade}?”
That would actually be a very good trade for the Hawks. The Celtics don’t have to worry about being able to resign Josh because that’s where he wants to go, to play with his high school buddy Rondy. But the Hawks are on record saying there are All Stars they would not take in trade for Josh. They think he’s worth a lot. They may end up shooting themselves in the foot by not taking what BOS offers and instead letting them sign him outright next offseason without giving up any assets for him.
“I would rather have Miles Plumlee than Fabulous Melo.”
I’ll take Festus Ezeli.
Buddy Grizzard
June 23rd, 2012
11:07 pm
“Salary cap rules wouldn’t have allowed them to keep Beasley and also have room for three max contracts.”
They took sub-max contracts so they would have enough left over to sign Haslem.
Melvin
June 23rd, 2012
11:35 pm
Lets just say the below statement is true for the sake of argument. Here’s a reason why it’s good to have salary cap space. If the Hawks had cap space, they could trade for one of these players and send the Bulls back a Trade Player Exception. This is a good example of not having to use your salary cap space just to sign free agents. Salary cap space is an asset if you wisely…
“The Bulls want to give Omer Asik and Taj Gibson new deals, so they’re exploring ways to trade Luol Deng and/or Joakim Noah to teams that can send them a trade exception and a No. 1 pick. New York Daily News”
donte080
June 23rd, 2012
11:35 pm
FYI….Hawks are supposively talking with Danny Ferry to replace Sund.
pointguardslim
June 23rd, 2012
11:45 pm
Umm can u guys post actual rosters? Go with the San Antonio model. Quick PG dumping off to Size inside, size defense, and multiple Starter caliber players off the bench.
Teague – Johnson – Smith – Horford – Pachulia
Hinrich- Kevin Murphy* – Marvin Williams – Ivan Johnson – Melo/Ezeli
and to the guy who posted McGrady as a starter…How old are you? Grow up.
pointguardslim
June 23rd, 2012
11:54 pm
The Hawks are eligible for the mini-mle or multiple mini-mle’s.
Also I checked the rookie scales. So the players with * are counted towards the $60.9M.
So here are the contracts
Teague*
Johnson*
Smith*
Horford*
Pachulia*
Hinrich – $3M (mini-mle; Kidd; Earl Watson; or even smarter – steal CJ Watson from the Bulls)
Kevin Murphy – $444K (the next Kevin Martin)
Marvin Williams* (bench ace)
Ivan Johnson – $1.3M
Ezeli/Melo – $1.3M
Pargo – $vet minimum
Green – $vet minimum or Al Thornton or Shannon Brown
Dampier – $vet minimum (depends on shape as much as anything)
Slimjr
June 23rd, 2012
11:59 pm
Thanks donte080 for the news. I don’t mean to be a jack azz but you’re a day late and a dollar short with the GM info Sir……It was posted over 24 hrs ago on a previous blog…
Hey Sautee, I give Ferry credit for jumping off that sinking boat before it sunk! LOL…
Dawg
June 24th, 2012
12:03 am
donte080: You are not allowed to ever repeat something that has been posted. One more slip up and you are banned. “No blog for you!”
Grandad
June 24th, 2012
12:42 am
donte080
Don`t worry about it.
I did the same thing.
Grandad
June 24th, 2012
1:02 am
For the 2nd or 10th time, I`ve lost count:
Even if our Hwks trade Josh for a pick;
we must take back some salary.
CBA rules apply.
Draft picks do not count anything toward trade value !
Example:
Josh Smith to the Bobcats for the # 2 pick.
Hawks would have to take back:
Tyrus Thomas + Gerald Henderson to make it work.
Thomas & Henderson make an aggregate $9.5 mil [approx]
* (no way that deal is worth it)
Any trade Josh for a pick;
the return salary must be worthwhile or an exp salary,
-otherwise-
the Hawks dont do the deal.
____________________________________________
Houston is muh more appealing.
Lowry + filler would be worth the $,
plus the pick or picks.
Perhaps even Scola + the pick or picks.
* The less salary you take on the better;
plus the better the player in return.
___________________________________________
This is my understanding of trading players for picks.
Grandad
June 24th, 2012
1:05 am
* note – I left this info off my last post:
Tyrus Thomas also has three yrs left on his contract.
Grandad
June 24th, 2012
1:17 am
There is a reason Charlotte cannot trade that pick.
No one can figure out who they want to draft there anyway ?
There are five players that particular teams would like to draft at # 2:
Robinson; Beal; Barnes; Kidd-Gilchrist; & Drummond.
The first four are concensus 2-5.
However alot of teams (if they had the pick) would choose Drummond.
The Hawks are probably one of the teams that would pick Drummond.
Now you see why.
Nobody wants to take on Ty Thomas just to get a solid player;
[Robinson] or a hit or miss player [Drummond.
My prediction:
Charlotte keeps the pick;
and Michael Jordan does something goofy.
Such as pick – Perry Jones III or Austin Rivers
Grandad
June 24th, 2012
1:19 am
semi colon out of place / bracket missin`
I`m gonna fire my typist
northcyde
June 24th, 2012
4:16 am
Ray
June 23rd, 2012
5:19 pm
@ Grandad
I could go for that That would be our way of dumping Marvin
And then Amnesty Joe Johnson from the team just let him go I’d rather draft another SG in the second round only if they get both picks then watch Joe Johnson again.
I’m not a huge believer in stats, but I’ve said this before look back at Johnson’s this past season and he didn’t do anything worth being mention even on ESPN Top 10 or 30 for that matter.
In fact if it’s not for Josh half the games we competed in this year we probably would have lost them all regardless further reason we shouldn’t be so quick to trade Josh Smith.
***********************
Nope, he sure didn’t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxmGqHS647M
Ray
June 24th, 2012
7:50 am
@ Northcyde
So to make a point you show a video of Joe Johnson forcing overtime in Cleveland of all teams?
You do realize how bad Cleveland is correct?
The Corps
June 24th, 2012
7:51 am
NO jOE HIGHLITE HERE, EITHER.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzx3052GRcs
The Corps
June 24th, 2012
7:54 am
BOO YAH!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqS0u00UmoA
Ray
June 24th, 2012
7:55 am
Actually my entire argument many blogs ago that Joe Johnson kept beating the smaller teams of the league this entire season. You didn’t disprove anything you only made it worse.
We shouldn’t have even had to go to OT with a Cleveland team basically featuring a one man show in Kyrie Irving in a rookie year just saying.
@ Buddy G
I was about right Al Horford and Al Jefferson are about equal out to be the same person because Al got injured this year so early he could have been better you never know.
Ray
June 24th, 2012
8:04 am
Oops mean same player they both produce about the same amount in the stat categories.
The Corps
June 24th, 2012
8:12 am
Joe annihilated the Jazz. I must have missed this one cause it came on too late. WOW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NABojcdl8M4&feature=related
KevinM
June 24th, 2012
8:41 am
G-dad, Odom to Dallas for a #2 was not a salary balance.
I believe any deal can be done and Charlotte def has room for a Josh contract. Is it an equal deal?
It leans in the ‘Cats favor especially if Pendergraft picks a bust.
If any team knows about the 2pick being a bust, it’s us and our Detroit model…….and I think in that regard, we are following he DET model..:)
If we had the 2nd pick under some miracle, I’m picking MKG. The guy is Mr. intangible and could be an all-star if scoring wasn’t the primary factor.
KevinM
June 24th, 2012
8:50 am
So if Barkley knows its a players league, and our players are at best 3rd team All-NBA, and we aren’t bringing in any notable FAs, then how else are you going to fix this mediocre roster unless you gut it?
That is our only chance in competing in the future. Didn’t OKC teach us anything? We have failed on 3 huge lottery slots in our rebuild, which can’t happen.
And to finish this, going young until you get it right is cap friendly. Would this have been a good year to gut the roster? I would like our team much better heading into this season had we been able to have 3 #1s coming in. The cap would not be an issue.
Plus I think our city is a top tier NBA city; it’s just that management has no clue how to hone in on that segment. We always have strong NBA nimbers.
And for anyone saying we’re close, you must be part of the ASG way of thinking.
KevinM
June 24th, 2012
8:55 am
Rick Sund doesnt have the guts to pull off a big deal. His big deal is a visit to Costco so he can take another long vacation.
You guys want a GM/staff? Go get me the Denver staff. They see talent and go get it. I compared us to them last offseason and their assets are much more favorable than ours.
KevinM
June 24th, 2012
9:14 am
I would be totally shocked if Boston doesn’t end up with Austin Rivers. If a Portland or a MIL can get a 2 for 1 deal for #1s, then BO’S has a great shot to pull it off.
They need an Allen replacement and he fits in immediately. It is set up for it,
And one trade rumor: Iggy for Pau……then why not JJ for Pau?
Ray
June 24th, 2012
9:32 am
@ The Corps
Yet on other nights Joe is either nonexistent or he’ll stink it up, and plus you looking at one category.
He (Joe) did beat a few big name teams like Clips, Jazz, and Heat, but this season he was half the time inconsistent.
KevinM
June 24th, 2012
10:03 am
For those looking to finding a guy to take on the role of 2/3, something that Kirk isn’t built for, cnnsi.com has us taking Wil Barton at 23…..Barton himself thinks he’s the best wing in the draft and his numbers back that up.
And as I have said too many times, any thing but a PF, and that looks like what is in Moe Harkless’ future also.
Cwebb
June 24th, 2012
10:07 am
Ray, about your ” Joe Johnson can’t beat good teams” claim, the facts are:
Season: 18,8 points, 3,7 rebounds, 3,9 assists, 45,4 %
Against over 50% teams (30 games), He is averaging 18 points, 3,6 rebounds and 3,8 assists, 45,1% (6,9/15,3)
Against over 50% teams (last two months, 13 games): 22,7 points, 4,4 rebounds, 3,5 assists, 52% (8,6/16,6)
NEW GM
June 24th, 2012
10:16 am
Marvin Williams to Cleveland Straight up for Anderson Varejao.
High-sider
June 24th, 2012
10:26 am
I just got finished eating my last (fried crow) drumstick and my last piece of Humble pie while drinking the last few ounces of green (with envy) Hater-ade (belch). I must tip my hat to you both Coach Spoelstra and Chris Bosh. You two (Coach Spo’ and Bosh) helped the Heat “get it done” (win an NBA championship).
P.S. Coach Spo’, if you don’t “get it done” next year for the Heat, the media may be “calling for your head” and making you out to be the next “Paul Westhead.” Coach Spo’, you do know he [Westhead], as [a] former Lakers head coach, was replaced by [Pat] Riley – right? See the correlation and similarity.
NEW GM
June 24th, 2012
10:44 am
Just got a call from Utah. They are desperately trying to get into the first round so I offered Marvin Williams and our 1st round pick (#23 overall) for Derrick Favors, Raja Bell, and their second round pick.
Buddy Grizzard
June 24th, 2012
11:50 am
“If the Hawks had cap space, they could trade for one of these players and send the Bulls back a Trade Player Exception.” – Melvin
Now would be a good time to dump Josh and Marvin for picks and an exception to send to the Bulls for Noah. He may have under-performed but he still has a reasonable contract.
“Even if our Hwks trade Josh for a pick; we must take back some salary.” – G-Dad
Not true. If the team we are trading with has the cap space to absorb Josh’s salary, we don’t have to take back any salary. That’s how Hawks could obtain picks and a TPE to send to CHI for Noah.
“Why not JJ for Pau?”
Iggy fills a defensive need for LA. They don’t need a volume shooter, they already have Kobe. After Kobe told Dwight that he would be the third option on that team, do you think he wants to compete with JJ for shots?
“I offered Marvin Williams and our 1st round pick (#23 overall) for Derrick Favors, Raja Bell, and their second round pick.”
And they laughed hysterically?
KevinM
June 24th, 2012
12:06 pm
Buddy, I don’t think we would have a chance at moving Joe to any contender with that contract. It was just a hypothetical to say that yes, Iggy and Pau are being discussed. Is there not enough interest in a Joe that it doesn’t even garnish a rumor?
I think to compete for any title, your Top 3 cannot average more that 48M if you are staying within the cap. The Hawks Big 3 average well, but they talent is overlapped and we don’t have 1 leader out of the bunch.
Ray
June 24th, 2012
12:18 pm
@ Cwebb
Not saying he can’t beat good teams, but he was inconsistent with them scoring wise.
Just Joe
June 24th, 2012
12:30 pm
Al Horford for Corey Maggette and #2. (Charlotte gets a proven young player)
Marvin Williams and #2 for Luke Walton, #4, and #24. (Cleveland gets Beal at 2)
#4 for #7 and #30. (Warriors get either MKG or Barnes)
Hawks draft Dion Waiters at 7….Jeff Taylor and Andrew Nicholson at 23 and 24….Festus Ezeli at 30…..??? at 43.
Teague / Waiters (backup either guard spot)
Johnson
Taylor / Maggette (defense / offense)
Smith / Nicholson (low post scorer off the bench)
Pachulia / Ezeli (big bodies up front)
Smith, Pachulia, and Maggette = $28M in expiring contracts. Look at your rookie-progress up to the trade deadline. Make deals if needed.
Buddy Grizzard
June 24th, 2012
1:29 pm
“Is there not enough interest in a Joe that it doesn’t even garnish a rumor?”
Not when it has Joe going to LA, a team that doesn’t have a need at shooting guard. By the way, I thought Joe was terrible at small forward, so I don’t buy a team trading for his contract to have him play out of position.
Ray
June 24th, 2012
2:22 pm
Yeah you got to give Joe to a team that would need an SG and that’s why I suggest Bucks because they might be willing to part with their picks plus some players to try and keep Jennings there. In a way the nets could also be another plan as their trying to keep Deron Williams there also.
KevinM
June 24th, 2012
2:33 pm
Well, if you’re thinking MIL, throw in NJ and Charlotte….I do think Joe has interest, but we will have to initiate the talks.
donte080
June 24th, 2012
2:39 pm
grizzard, hawks played their best basketball of the season when Joe moved to SF and Marvin came off the bench….
donte080
June 24th, 2012
2:42 pm
Why do you guys keep referring to whatever charles barkley says about winning teams? What has he ever won?
donte080
June 24th, 2012
2:49 pm
Hey comedians….yes, I was pointing out the obvious on Ferry news…yet all you clowns keep complaining about hawks management not doing anything about Sund wanting out before free agency and draft…..apparantly, they are trying to get a new guy in….
Shamrock
June 24th, 2012
3:03 pm
know what you Hawks fans need? Is for the weak ### dude Najeh to stop blogging like he knows whats going on. Maybe after he quits rubbing on 10 year old little boys behinds he will have some knowledge. Go Celtics!
High-sider
June 24th, 2012
3:28 pm
Austin Rivers is overrated and over-hyped. If available, the Hawks should draft Wroten, Jr., in 2012 and bring back Jamal Crawford for a reliable bench scoring option. The Hawks’ motto for the 2012-2013 regular season should be as follows: ECF or bust.
Grandad
June 24th, 2012
3:46 pm
KevinM
‘`I believe any deal can be done and
*[Charlotte]
def has room for a Josh contract.`’
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
Very few teams have enough cap space under the CBA.
Here is the short list:
Sacramento Kings – $11,186,472
Toronto Raptors – $10,185,875
Indiana Pacers – $6,197,107
Cleveland Cavaliers – $4,574,616
Minnesota Timberwolves – $1,199,661
Brooklyn Nets – $844,665
‘`remember draft picks hold no dollar value in trade`’
source:
- Jason Fleming – … -HoopsWorld-
random
June 24th, 2012
3:50 pm
high sider im sure doc is gonna make sure his son isnt a bust lmao
Grandad
June 24th, 2012
3:58 pm
KevinM
The Lamar Odom trade involved a TPE.
I do not pretend to understand the ins & outs of the TPE.
-except-
That all outstanding 2012 TPEs expired yesterday, June, 23rd, `12.
Buddy Grizzard
June 24th, 2012
4:08 pm
“The Hawks’ motto for the 2012-2013 regular season should be as follows: ECF or bust.”
If the Hawks draft Wroten or Melo, that will take care of the “bust” part of the motto.
Buddy Grizzard
June 24th, 2012
4:11 pm
Sam Amico: Yahoo! Sports reporting Hawks have offered GM job to Danny Ferry. Rick Sund’s contract up, could land with Sixers. about 23 minutes ago
Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1yk9sTgNI
Buddy Grizzard
June 24th, 2012
4:14 pm
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba–atlanta-hawks-offer-danny-ferry-gm-job.html
UGA
June 24th, 2012
4:15 pm
Yahoo said deal is close so I believe it!!! Bring on the Ferry!!
Grandad
June 24th, 2012
4:18 pm
donte080
I watched Barkley get reamed out of a Championship by Jordan.
When a player [Team] gets that close;
how do you criticize ?
‘`What has Barkley ever won ?`’ [paraphrase]
‘`I was pointing out the obvious on Ferry news`’ [obvious rejoinder]
-really- ?
(may as well `fess up now)
____________________________________________
Hey everyone … The Heat won the NBA Championship !
-&-
LeBron was MVP – we oughta` talk about that.
____________________________________________
Hey yawl – I heard the St louis Hawks might move to Atlanta, GA.
Buddy Grizzard
June 24th, 2012
4:18 pm
Awesome news.
hawks_4_life
June 24th, 2012
4:23 pm
Best bit of news in Hawksville for some time.
High-sider
June 24th, 2012
4:27 pm
@Buddy Grizzard
“Sam Amico: Yahoo! Sports reporting Hawks have offered GM job to Danny Ferry…” – Buddy Grizzard
Buddy Grizzard, if this is (indeed) true (that the Hawks have offered the GM job to Danny Ferry), then the “bust” for the 2012-2013 regular season has already occurred (before it [the regular season] has started). [SMH]
High-sider
June 24th, 2012
4:36 pm
“Sam Amico: Yahoo! Sports reporting Hawks have offered GM job to Danny Ferry. Rick Sund’s contract up, could land with Sixers. about 23 minutes ago” – Buddy Grizzard
I see now [that] the ASG wants to run the Hawks [franchise] like a “plantation.” Danny Ferry as the Hawks new GM looks, smells and tastes like the same ol’ soup just reheated. [SMH]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpH-BxiMWtM – @0:32~0:33
Michael Cunningham
June 24th, 2012
4:49 pm
new blog posted. shutting down this thread.
SLAM ONLINE | » Another Round
June 26th, 2012
7:23 pm
[...] to a big man this summer. On July 1 he’ll officially be a restricted free agent, and the AJC reports the Hawks will extend him a qualifying offer so they’ll maintain the right to match [...]