Atlanta Hawks: New bench same as the old bench?
The Hawks liked their bench players so much last season they are hoping they can lure them back for 2012-13.
“When we go forward I would anticipate–because our bench was so good for us last year [and] in our exit meetings with our veterans to a man said, ‘Can we get our same bench back?’–we are definitely going to make an effort to do that,” Hawks assistant GM Dave Pendergraft said. “Because, as you know, that was one of the deeper benches I’ve been involved with. It helped us sustain the injuries. I think they enjoyed the experience.
“I feel like the guys who came off the bench felt they had an identity. I think they felt appreciated by the starters. I think we would be their first choice. Now, I think a lot of things play into that but we talked to all of them and they had a good experience. ”
All of the 2011-12 reserves except for Ivan Johnson (the Hawks plan to extend him a qualifying offer to retain salary-matching rights) will be unrestricted free agents next month: Jason Collins, Erick Dampier, Willie Green, Kirk Hinrich, Tracy McGrady, Jannero Pargo, Vladimir Radmanovic and Jerry Stackhouse.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a scenario in which the Hawks rebuild their bench by bringing back most of those veterans if possible while supplanting one of them with their first-round draft pick, a player they hope can immediately join the back of the rotation.
“We have got to play it out,” Hawks GM Rick Sund said. “You can’t make any decisions even in your head right now. You can only play out scenarios because you don’t know what the [luxury] tax is going to be, you don’t know what the cap is going to be, you don’t know who you are going to draft.”
The Hawks did have a solid bench last season but, for various reasons, there is some risk in bringing back each of those players.
In the front court, Collins had some slippage and you wonder if Dampier will stay in shape this summer. Dampier turns 38 next month and Collins will be 34 in December.
The Hawks might be pressing their luck to hope Green can duplicate his career-best season–his inability to create shots in the playoffs against Boston’s defense may have been a sign. Also, he’ll be 31 next month after lingering injuries cost him 13 games last season.
Pargo also had the most efficient scoring season of his career but, like Green, the lasting impression was being overmatched by the Celtics. Larry Drew really likes Hinrich because of his defensive tenacity but Hinrich’s offensive production and efficiency continued to drop off and he looked beat up for most of the season.
On the wing, McGrady’s occasional flashes of his old play-making magic couldn’t compensate for his physical deterioration and his seeming inability to fully come to grips with that. Radmanovic also couldn’t stay healthy and went through stretches where he seemed reluctant to do the one thing the Hawks signed him to do, shoot 3-pointers. Stackhouse played in just 30 regular-season games and none in the playoffs.
Whatever the individual weaknesses of those players, Sund said he believes they collectively created a good blend for the Hawks.
“Last year I think we were the deepest team in the from league one through 15 once we picked up Dampier,” Sund said. “We had a great composite with the versatility and flexibility. It gave a lot of options for Larry, which he used a lot. He changed lineups and he could match up well.
“Also I think the really good teams can play the different styles. You can play an up-tempo game, you can play a defensive game, they can grind it out. I think the team with the best record, San Antonio, was the best at that. I think with all the versatility we had that was a plus. We could do that. And we were one of the best defensive teams in the league.”
Of course, the realities of the marketplace could trump whatever misgivings the Hawks have about bringing back last season’s reserves or signing other similarly-flawed free agents. You have to take what you can get if you are limited to filling out the roster with minimum-salaried vets.
If last season’s reserves don’t find much love on the free-agent market then perhaps they return.
“I think some of the guys are definitely in the mix,” Drew said. “My feeling is a lot of the guys are probably going to try to obviously get the best offer they can and go where the best offer is. We will be talking to most of them to see what they are thinking. We are going to have to make sure we are strengthening our bench and guys who can fit in with the core.
“There are certain pieces we are looking for. Last year I thought was a pretty good blend, a pretty good mix, and we kind of have an idea now of the type of players we need to bring in. We have already started to look at that free agent list and what’s out there and whether we can afford them or not. But with nine free agents got our work cut out for us. I don’t know who we can get.”
Some of last season’s reserves talked about the possibility of returning as they headed out the door.
Green: “I’ve got nine years in the NBA and I’m just looking forward to the next challenge. We will see what happens. If the opportunity is here [in Atlanta], this is where I will be. If not, I wish the Hawks the best.
Pargo: “Just looking for any team that wants me. Once I find out what teams want me, then go from there. If [the Hawks] will have me, I would love to be back.”
Hinrich: “Talent-wise, we are one of the better teams in the East. You play in this league for a certain amount of time and you want to be on a winner. We will see what happens. I could be back here, or could not.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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343 comments Add your comment
Ken Strickland
June 22nd, 2012
8:39 pm
I recently read an article that said the Howks are considering using JSmith as trade bait to move up in the draft. That tells me the ASG is trying to get something for Josh while at the same time saving money. Drafting a player in the upper part of the 1st rd is a whole lot cheaper than keeping Josh, or letting him walk for nothing.
An upper half 1st rd pick would cost about $5-6M per yr, which is a lot cheaper than paying Josh over $12M per yr. That $6-7M savings could buy a decent bench player or 2, especially a Big. I’m not saying this is the best way to go, but it might be the only way for an ownership group that’s strapped for cash and trying to field a competitive team.
Astro Joe
June 22nd, 2012
8:40 pm
I’d take Danny Ferry (but the cynic in me believes this is a smoke screen). The thing that sold me is the rumor that he is trying to negotiate authority. That suggests that he isn’t interested in being a caretaker and knows enough about how things work that he doesn’t want to have permission to use the restroom (or sign an emergency 4th center). And my guess, he probably would love a chance to prove that San Antonio didn’t produce just one excelent GM from their tree (Presti with OKC) but that he can also build an up and coming squad. And honestly, as we sit here on June 22, 2012, Ferry has exactly as many Finals appearances as Presti. He knows the league, has all of the phone numbers and worked in a city desperate for a champion. But I fully and completely believe that Pendergraft will get the job. I found it interesting that the guy responsible for the Hawks draft is being quoted discussing the bench (and a bunch of veteran players).
The Monger
June 22nd, 2012
8:56 pm
I dont know whether to laugh or cry at this quote…“Last year I think we were the deepest team in the from league one through 15 once we picked up Dampier,” Sund said.
Im leaning toward crying, because 45 plus years of mediocrity and being led by buffoon after buffoon is starting to wear thin. This is truly horrible that a man supposedly devoted to winning games wants this team to lose with all his heart apparently. I hate Rick Sund and ASG with ALL my heart. They continue to believe in this heartless, immature, arrogant group of players. The series in Boston explained it all…we had homecourt advantage and lost it, won the first game and lost the 2nd with Rondo and Pierce out, then we have a chance to tie it back in game 4 and get BLOWN out. Got blown out in Orlando 2 years ago, got blown out in Chicago. These are playoff games and our team is full of chokers and whiners, who aren’t championship pedigree. The only player who is a champion type player is Al Horford, and maybe Jeff Teague in a few years. Sund wants a Bench back that had Jason Collins on it, Jason “the worst player on an NBA roster” Collins? Eric Dampier, 38 years old and out of shape? Vladimir Radmonovich, who has one good game, then 5 bad ones. T-Mac who can’t shoot anymore, Kirk “turnover machine” Hinrich. Then 3 guys who had decent years in Pargo, Ivan, and Green, but its doubtful Pargo and Green have career years back to back. Every TNT analyst laughed at your bench depth and so did the entire nation during the playoffs. You were playing Eric Dampier and Jason Collins in meaningful minutes. Pargo and Green were downright awful, T-Mac had a spurt and then was injured for the 5th time this year, Ivan was bad, and the rest of them didnt even step on the floor to contribute. And this Rick Sund is the “deepest bench in the NBA?” , are you high or just think this is some kind of joke to say something like that?….
Guess I won’t be watching any Hawks games this year… 5th seed in East and first round exit again, Josh leaves and we are stuck with Joe for another 3 years after next season. I guess I will hopefully be able to step back into Phillips somewhere around 2016 or so…
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
9:01 pm
Thanks Sautee for setting the record straight!
You’ve done it again! lol
I typed out of turn!
TMACfan
June 22nd, 2012
9:04 pm
All Hawks fans answer this question:
Will the Hawks win the title next year???
————————————————————
It is time to blow it up and restart.
Section 303
June 22nd, 2012
9:07 pm
Slimjr, I think Najeh is a really smart. But, like someone pointed out, all of those moves came before he was GM in Cleveland.
Who knows if the Hawks will actually hire Ferry? If they do, I think he could be a good GM. Late in the LeBron Cleveland era, the team was desperate to keep LeBron. So, whatever moves were made during LeBron’s final season were not the norm. They (the Cavs) were trying hard to win the title and ensure LeBron’s re-signing. That is not a normal condition.
Besides, most on here will rip the furture Hawks GM, regardless of who it is. There were fire Sund posts the day he was hired. I’m willing to give Ferry a shot. I think he could do well here. But, until he actually signs on, it is all just Internet BS. I like Internet BS, by the way…
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
9:11 pm
Ken, it would be disastrous for this organization to let Josh walk at the end of next season and get nothing in return..
It would get real ugly in Hawks land..
.
Sautee
June 22nd, 2012
9:14 pm
Monger,
Just for some perspective: Kirk “turnover machine” Hinrich in the playoffs had the best assist to turnover ratio for the entire team. Not saying I want him back, unless it’s at a reasonable price for his production, but “turnover machine” is a bit hyperbolic, IMO.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
9:18 pm
Section 303 it really does not matter who they bring in as the new GM. Gearon Jr wants a puppet so he can “pull the strings” from his office.
And yes I agree with you its just BS until he is introduced as the new GM of our Atlanta Hawks..
High-sider
June 22nd, 2012
9:26 pm
@Buddy Grizzard
““I find it hilarious how High-Sider has heavily criticized Westbrook throughout this series, even though Jamal Crawford plays the exact same way as Westbrook.”
No comparison between Westbrook and JC1. Westbrook leads his team on deep playoff runs. JC1 nuts up in the 2nd round…” – Buddy Grizzard @12:03pm dated 6/22/2012, FTPB
I guess [as you (Buddy Grizzard) would say] Jamal Crawford’s “nutting up” in the 2nd round of the playoffs is better than Kirk Hinrich’s “nutting up” in the 1st round of the 2012 playoffs against [the] Boston [Celtics]. Dude [Hinrich] only scored two points from the beginning of the 3rd quarter of Game 2 vs. Boston to the end of the 4th quarter of Game 4 vs. Boston; that means, your boy, Hinrich, only scored two (2) points in 10+ quarters [125 minutes] of playoff basketball. Please remember that Game 3 vs. Boston was a(n) (single) overtime game.
The MF [Hinrich] was a straight [up] “bust(er)” in the playoffs for the Hawks this year. Don’t forget your boy, Hinrich, lost his starting position [in this year's playoffs] to Marvin Williams of all (Hawks) players. We’re talkin’ about Marvin “The Duck” Williams.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
9:27 pm
The only way I would agree to starting over is with new ownership. Present ownership along with Rick Sund cannot be trusted in turning this franchise into a title contender..See past four years.
This season maybe the last for this mature core who have played together for years and have
already peaked several seasons ago.
Change is coming..The question is how much and what time line?
44
2156
Jae Evolution
June 22nd, 2012
9:32 pm
Thunder’s pick could probably be had for cheap, they are looking to not add any guranteed salary with extenstions coming for both Harden and Ibaka. Late 1st round will still be a lot of quality and value picks.
Clarification
June 22nd, 2012
10:03 pm
“Dude [Hinrich] only scored two points from the beginning of the 3rd quarter of Game 2 vs. Boston to the end of the 4th quarter of Game 4 vs. Boston; that means, your boy, Hinrich, only scored two (2) points in 10+ quarters [125 minutes] of playoff basketball. Please remember that Game 3 vs. Boston was a(n) (single) overtime game. ”
Funny that you mention 10+ quarters, since Hinrich only played the first 3 quarters of that OT game. So there’s one blow to the old credibility. And tell me High-Sider, what do YOU think Kirk Hinrich’s PRIME DUTY was with the Hawks? I’ll tell you since you wouldn’t answer anyway:
To play defense, which he did decently. You can throw Rondo’s stats up all day, but since Kirk didn’t guard Rondo exclusively, it proves only that Rondo was effective against the Hawks overall. But as Buddy Grizzard can tell you, MC had an entire blog that showed Hinrich’s defensive effectiveness against Rondo:
http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/05/06/atlanta-hawks-reining-in-rondo/
There you were yapping about Rondo getting a triple double. And there MC was explaining that it didn’t happen on Hinrich’s watch. But hey, if the facts disagree with how you WISH it was, then you’ll stick your fingers in your ears and say “la la la la la I can’t hear you”. Did you even READ that blog?
Now about Jamal: What was Jamal’s prime duty with the Hawks? To score.
Yet in Jamal’s last 4 games he only scored 29 pts. That’s a whopping 7.5 ppg, from someone WHO’S JOB IT IS TO SCORE! In the second round of the playoffs WHEN WE NEEDED HIM MOST!
His last 2 games were particularly horrid: In 51:29 Jamal scored 10 whole points on 3-19 shooting. He was 0-7 from 3 point range. 10 points in 8 quarters of basketball. From a gunner, as you describe him.
A gunner who averaged almost 5 shots per game more than Hinrich did in this years playoff, which clearly indicates who was SUPPOSED to be scoring and who was not.
Did I mention his prime duty was to score? Epic fail. As I said before, you’d do better as a JC1 fan to not mention Hinrich’s scoring, because when you do, I’m parading Jamal’s very worst here for all to see.
O'Brien
June 22nd, 2012
10:28 pm
2 years ago, the ASG interviewed Avery Johnson. Did anyone really think he was in the running?
I think the Danny Ferry rumor is a smoke screen. The current GM (Rick Sund) has not (officially) decided if he will retire or not, and his contract is not up until June 30. The assistant GM (Pendergraft) is commenting on draft picks. The option on the HC has already been picked up. Why would the ASG bring in a GM this late?
O'Brien
June 22nd, 2012
10:32 pm
As for bringing back the same bench, I will repeat what Rod was saying from the beginning of the season. You cannot rely on our bench players in the playoffs.
I think the main reason they are interested in bringing back the same bench is because they will be paid the league minimum (imo).
LD:We are going to have to make sure we are strengthening our bench and guys who can fit in with the core..
I amso tired of hearing about the core…
KevinM
June 22nd, 2012
10:52 pm
Rick Sund’s last day as GM is June 30. The draft will be over and the FA pool will begin. Does anyone else see the irony there?
We have a GM who may or may not be back and may not be decided upon until after the draft.
We have a GM who may be gone prior to the start of the FA process. Doesn’t that tell you there is no work being done to prepare for available bodies?
I can see the scenario now…..GM to go Sund and his staff decide to go with the best available athlete despite having needs at SG, PG and C.
He picks a PF because that’s where the depth is in this draft.
We don’t need him, but we have him just in case, similar to the JC2 draft. We have 2 SGs who get the max of the minutes and we’re going to bring in a guy who’s best attempt to get playing time consists of firing it up every time he gets it. He impresses LD enough to try to move him at PG as a backup to Prime. Our drafted PG from ‘09 just sits and watches for 36mpg.
You see what I’m getting at here? There are no plans…everything is being made up along the way. We have a 1 month GM and a 1 year coach making decisions that impact at the minimum the next 5 years. You have to get this draft pick and the guy has to be an NBA player the next 4 years.
Now you know why comments about bringing back the entire bench so there is no mystery about finding players, dealing with negotiations for free agents that other teams are interested in.
The GM is going to take the easy way out and try to sell you the same car that you want to get rid of….lots of mileage, but the GM sees lots of ‘dependable’ miles left and considers your asset one of the best in the industry.
This line of thinking has no place in today’s NBA. We’re going to be looking at resigning 5-7 vets at the minimum provided that no one else will claim them.
I dont’ see T-Mac back…other than that, our roster will be just like last year’s and it won’t survive a season without numerous injuries.
Dawg
June 22nd, 2012
10:53 pm
It’s horrible to be a fan of such a poorly run franchise. It’s horrible to see such ineptness. The Hawks management and ownership do EVERYTHING wrong.
Dawg
June 22nd, 2012
10:56 pm
Do we need a GM at all? We simply hire the players who are left over every year? We aren’t really interested in Ferry. What would he do? Why does the NBA let this ownership continue?
Does Sund have an internet connection yet?
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
10:56 pm
We really have no idea what we could get for Josh. Even if we could trade Josh for a lottery pick, is 1 year of Josh worth:
4 years of Thomas Robinson?
MKG
Beal?
Drummond?
And any of those guys would almost certainly make us weaker this season, w/o Josh.
So do I want to see what we can do in 2012/13 with josh, and then probably lose him? Or do I want a lesser team next season, unless an incredible trade comes up, and have some cap flexibility and maybe a piece for the future?
And with Josh’s salary gone, even if you draft #2, your still about 9 million under where you would be with Josh here. So about 52 million. So technically you could sign a guy for about 6 mill to get to the cap (your 7th player), and then use the full mid-level for 5+ mill (your 8th guy) and be at 63+ mill. – then be at about 64.7 mill with the #23 pick for the 9th guy – and fill out the roster with vet min./2nd round/DLeague types.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
10:57 pm
The above is assuming that the cap is somewhere around 58 mill again, and Luxury Tax around 71 mill.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
11:08 pm
So if Charlotte would do Josh for the #2 pick straight up, you could field a team that looked like this:
C – Al/ZaZa
PF – Robinson/Ivan
SF – Marvin/Jeff Taylor
SG – JJ/Jamal (Mid level)
PG – Teague/Andre Miller (6 mill+ to get to the cap)
And depending on what Ivan signed for, have about 65.7 mill in salaries (if Ivan signed for 1 mill – he may sign for more) for those 10 guys.
But you could tweak that all day long – draft MKG instead of Robinson, sign Nash or somebody instead of Jamal or Miller etc. – But the salary slots are the same.
The wildcard is – you’d have to do something with Marvin before the next season if you wanted to re-sign ZaZa and Teague realistically, without going into Luxury Tax territory.
Grandad
June 22nd, 2012
11:17 pm
Lang Greene reporting:
The Hawks and Danny Ferry are talking about the Hwks GM position.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
11:19 pm
Danny Ferry even looks like Rick Sund. Will the nightmare never end?
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
11:21 pm
Reports are the Heat, Thunder, and maybe the Bulls want out of the 1st round because they don’t want the guaranteed contract a 1st round pick has.
Grandad
June 22nd, 2012
11:23 pm
Sorry;
didn`t realize it had already been reported.
The Next Great GM
June 22nd, 2012
11:24 pm
the atlanta hawks have got to be the dumbest franchise in the history of the nba…every year every decade its the same thing with the hawks…wen we need a point guard we draft or go after a center wen we need a center we sign a foward..in order to become successful you need a complete team and a focus hardworking franchise with owners who has there players back..al joe and josh all came to management and requested that the team go after a true center before the 2011-2012 season and did the stupid spirit organization do that NO! instead we brought in 2 more guards 2 more small fowards wtf!..now i will agree the hawks had one if not the best bench in the league this year but lets be real for one second..the atlanta hawks will never i repeat NEVER advance past the second round let alone compete for a title intill the realize that the center position is the most important cuz the center controlls the paint..marvin williams will never amount to anything and is a waste of 7 million dollars hell they can pay me that and il play worst than marvin if thats what they want…al is not a center he is a poward forward give it up and stop trying..joe is not a 30 point scorer thats not his game make him take a pay cut…and last but not least josh smith is the hawks best player and who we should build the team around for the past three years hes been snubbed out of the allstar and is the most underatted player in the nba…HAWKS if you want to get past the champs in MIAMI or the bullys in indian and the rising Knicks i suggest you listen to me and sign josh smith trade marvin and a couple first round picks try to bring in howard if that attempt fails and more than likely it will you should try to go after on of the top 5 free agent centers this summer as well as draft big….anybody with any sense can see that the hawks are a good team but are to small and ti we get a true center we will only make the playoffs…..P.S. plz notify the hawks ownership that i will take half of sunds salary give me four years and i promise a title for the HAWKS!!!!!!
Grandad
June 22nd, 2012
11:25 pm
Sorry,
I did not realize, this had already been reported.
SteveW
June 22nd, 2012
11:26 pm
Even if Mike Miller and James Jones retire, the Heat still have over 69 mill in salaries committed to 9 players next season – so they’re in the Luxury Tax to get to 13 players, unless the Tax threshold goes way up.
And Chicago is trying to salary dump Deng. I tried to tell ya’ll Chicago was in a terrible cap spot with Boozer, Rose, Deng, and Noah. They got close to 60 mill committed to those 4 guys next season – and all of them get a raise the season after that as well. Then Rose, Boozer, and Noah get more raises into the future, even with Deng coming off the books.
And their owner hates the Luxury Tax like our owners does.
And the Luxury Tax is getting punative in the very near future.
The Next Great GM
June 22nd, 2012
11:30 pm
im in favor with going over the luxary tax for the simple fact that every team that went further than we did in the playoffs did… you have to spend money to make money and get talent look at the yankees…
Najeh Davenpoop
June 22nd, 2012
11:41 pm
Like others have pointed out, those fatal mistakes Cleveland made that squandered their ability to build around LeBron were made before Ferry took over.
It’s hard to tell from Ferry’s time in Cleveland how good he really is. He didn’t make any especially inspired moves (maybe the Shaq and Mo Williams trades, that’s about it) and did make several questionable ones early in his career (the Larry Hughes signing in particular), but he also had to deal with the pressure of having to find players who would make LeBron happy and salary cap constraints that predated him in large part. And there was really no feasible way for him to add another legit superstar next to LeBron unless the rumors of the Cavs shooting down the JJ Hickson for Amare trade are true.
I think he’d definitely be better than Sund but I don’t see him having a Presti-like impact on the team.
Slimjr
June 22nd, 2012
11:45 pm
Hey Grandad, Gearon Jr maybe getting ready to put a new pair of shoes? lol
Grandad
June 22nd, 2012
11:46 pm
If Danny Ferry is in fact interested in the Hawks;
what a wonderful day it will be.
# 1. He wishes for full autonomy:
Great, wonderful, terrific, anything to get the basketball out of
the hands of Sund, Pendercrap, and Gearon.
# 2. A drawback is supposedly Joe`s contract.
I disagree; for if one is smart, motivated competitive;
they want a challenge !
# 3. He has played for the Spurs;
plus now he is completing his 2nd managerial stint with S.A.
which just happens to be the best organization in the NBA
for the last two decades. (give or take a couple yrs)
# 4. He will be different … something, anything, different is good.
It means there is ‘`hope`’.
Nahila
June 22nd, 2012
11:59 pm
Somebody get me the smelling salts because it they bring most of last year’s bench back, then I have either list consciousness or the Hawks management has. No way they bring back the 2 reserve centers, please draft or free agent sign a younger one. I would offer Hinrich a small salary based on last year’s production but give him Large incentive bonuses for points scored over 2012 base year plus defense stops, rebounds, and assists, Hinrich makes it if he plays well. I would send out Joe Johnson in the amnesty clause as he will only get worse as a player. Resign Josh Smith. Draft another big center and trade Williams for a 3 point shooter.
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
June 23rd, 2012
12:28 am
I love womens track and field…..My God!!!
Yall know we dont make moves before August, There will be no trades,new GM or coach.. How do u not have a new GM in place with the draft less than a week away….SAD
THE IMMORTAL...I MUS WRITE
June 23rd, 2012
12:30 am
June 29, 2012 @ 11 pm Sund signs his new contract…..
mykhalc
June 23rd, 2012
12:42 am
“The Summer of Sameness is operating in the 4th gear. Now, we just need the final touches on the GM decision and we’ll be at top speed going no where.”
@Joe…LOL…yep!! same drool on the same pillow ’cause i’m still in the middle of the same f’n nightmare!!!
Grandad
June 23rd, 2012
1:03 am
If Sund and Pendergraph are on the way out,
-&-
the ASG does not get Ferry signed before the draft;
I can see;
Sund / Pendy draftin` Furkan Aldemir @ 23,
then saying:
Furkan yawl ATL !
Then ol` Furk stays in Europe fer about 8 yrs.
-while-
we never hear of him again.
Kinda reminds me of Alain Digbeu ?
Alain is 36 yrs old now by the way;
has anyone ever seen him? … summer league ? anything ?
SteveW
June 23rd, 2012
1:12 am
About TMac returning – besides the friction between he and LD – This season there will be far fewer back to backs – No more compressed schedule, so it’s a regular schedule. TMac may be more valuable, unless he’s just officially done healthy wise.
And the non-compressed schedule should help teams with better players 1-9, and less dependency on the back part of the bench. Less injuries, less need for incredible depth this season.
So we need the best players 1-9 or 10. Still pay attention to the back part of the bench as always, but it’s not going to play the vital role it did this season on so many teams.
And starters will be able to play closer to 35 mpg this season. The schedule is just not quite as brutal.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
June 23rd, 2012
1:38 am
Same Ole Hawks
Stuck On Stupid And Not Looking To Improve
Its Hard Out Here For A Hawks Fan
falCans
June 23rd, 2012
2:20 am
Wonder if I’m the first to report the Hawks are looking to sign DFerry as GM. Widely recognized as an influential architect of the Spurs
High-sider
June 23rd, 2012
2:27 am
@Clarification
“…Funny that you mention 10+ quarters, since Hinrich only played the first 3 quarters of that OT game. So there’s one blow to the old credibility. And tell me High-Sider, what do YOU think Kirk Hinrich’s PRIME DUTY was with the Hawks?…” – Clarification @10:03pm dated 6/22/2012
Hinrich’s primary duties were to play good perimeter defense and to provide solid to good offense (average about 12-14ppg) in the playoffs due to the injuries/absences of Al Horford, Zaza Pachulia and Josh Smith (especially in Game 3). As you (Clarification) stated, Hinrich played the first three quarters of that (Game 3) overtime but, yet, he (Hinrich) did not score a single point – zero, zilch, nada, nyet, nothing, goose egg, etc. With the absences of Pachulia, Horford and Jo. Smith, coupled with the fact that he (Hinrich) was a starter in Game 3 vs. the Boston Celtics, Hinrich should have scored at least 12-15 points in that game. I’m not letting you (Clarification) or Kirk Hinrich off the hook for Hinrich’s Game 3 abysmal (offensive) performance. Hinrich scoring zero (0) points in Game 3 vs. Boston in the 2012 playoffs (in approximately 26 minutes of playing time) is both unacceptable and inexcusable. To make matters worse, Hinrich followed up his Game 3 “clunker”/”stinker” by scoring only two points in Game 4 vs. the Boston Celtics. This is a guy (Hinrich) who is supposed to be a savvy, veteran combo-guard with the ability to “spread the defense” and knock down (wide) open perimeter shots.
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“…Now about Jamal: What was Jamal’s prime duty with the Hawks? To score.
Yet in Jamal’s last 4 games he only scored 29 pts. That’s a whopping 7.5 ppg, from someone WHO’S JOB IT IS TO SCORE! In the second round of the playoffs WHEN WE NEEDED HIM MOST!
His last 2 games were particularly horrid: In 51:29 Jamal scored 10 whole points on 3-19 shooting. He was 0-7 from 3 point range. 10 points in 8 quarters of basketball. From a gunner, as you describe him.
A gunner who averaged almost 5 shots per game more than Hinrich did in this years playoff, which clearly indicates who was SUPPOSED to be scoring and who was not…” – Clarification @10:03pm dated 6/22/2012
The Chicago Bulls and coaching staff made a defensive adjustment to focus on Jamal Crawford by double-teaming him (Crawford). The Atlanta Hawks coaching staff did not counter this defensive strategy implemented by the Bulls. The Atlanta Hawks should have had Jamal Crawford playing off (of) the ball on offense by running him (Crawford) off (of) picks, screens, curls, etc. to free him up to get (him) good or quality looks/shots from his (Crawford’s) “sweet spots.” Personally, I was most frustrated with Crawford’s Game 3 performance vs. the Bulls in the 2011 playoffs because he (Crawford) scored only seven (7) points on 3-7 (42.857%) shooting from the field. Jamal Crawford should have taken more shots in that Game 3 vs. the Bulls.
P.S. Clarification, your criticism of Jamal Crawford is concerning his performance in the second round (EC Semis) of the 2011 playoffs – a playoff round in which the Hawks did not advance. My criticism of Kirk Hinrich is concerning his performance in the first round of the 2012 playoffs – a playoff round in which the Hawks did not advance. Do you see “the difference” in the Hawks’ two post season performances of 2011 and 2012 – one (post season performance) with Jamal Crawford and another (one) without him (Crawford)? In the post season of 2011, the Hawks WITH Jamal Crawford, ADVANCED to the second round of the playoffs, however, in the post season of 2012, the Hawks WITHOUT Jamal Crawford FAILED TO ADVANCE to the second round of the playoffs. Who would you (Clarification) say is more valuable to the Hawks post season success – Jamal Crawford or Kirk Hinrich? I (would) say Jamal Crawford (is more valuable than Kirk Hinrich is).
“You Can’t See What I Can See” (You blind baby, you blind from the facts.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5uqPUZxZHg&ob=av3n
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
June 23rd, 2012
2:50 am
HIRE NIQUE AS THE GM
vava74
June 23rd, 2012
3:19 am
Back from the grave of former Hawks’ Blog regular just for a short stint:
All these discussions (draft, bench, trades, …) are moot.
The main problem last year was LD and anyone overlooking this is a fool.
The roster was good, good enough to compete at a high level, however, it was a self managed roster, “coached” by an enabler who has NO COMMAND over the personnel and has no F..CKING CLUE how to counter-adjust and exploit match ups and extract the best out of the skill sets of his players and that only made changes/strides on account of injuries making players unavailable to him.
We have quality players, but the play like a bunch of guys who are regulars on pick up games.
Once quality coaching gives the opposing side the advantage that distinguishes a pick up team like ours and a contender, our game play collapsed.
That is that and there is no other argument needed to explain what we have.
If you look at the underlying quality of our roster, we were/are very good, but the most talented players in this team never had or have been so long away from quality coaching that when push comes to shove they simply produce brain farts after brain farts.
I am talking about both JJ and Josh.
JJ was coached by:
Pitino, Dantoni, Woody and LD. Neither is a really good coach (I don’t know who coached JJ at the college level, but it was too long ago to make an impact right now).
Pitino’s coaching is all about full court pressure and not much else. The results in the NBA were visible for everyone to see.
Dantoni is all about run and gun and his “system” needed an unbelievably good PG (Nash) in order to be a self managed style which worked, but in true X’s and O’s, Dantoni is crap.
Woody and LD is what you saw: one made JJ an ISO-only player and the other does not have the balls to change that and lets JJ play to his weaknesses (his ISO does not work against playoff defenses).
Josh?
High-school to NBA and since he entered he has had Woody and LD…
Do you think that with this type of coaching Josh will suddenly wake up and know about good basketball when has been coached by these two fools?
Everyone loves Horford’s maturity because Horford is still relatively fresh coming out of a good basketball program that preached team play and solid balanced effort (O and D) by everyone instead of hero-ball.
But even Horford was (is) slipping into the dark side under this idiot coach who was OK with him becoming an almost exclusive jump shooter.
LD getting another year even before a new GM is hired is the mark of a sorry ass franchise that is not worth the trouble of us following like hooked fools.
Sure, I will still watch some games next year, but I will not pay the League Pass again and will only pass by over here every now and then.
High-sider
June 23rd, 2012
3:30 am
“…Pitino, Dantoni, Woody and LD. Neither is a really good coach (I don’t know who coached JJ at the college level, but it was too long ago to make an impact right now)…” – vava74 @3:19am dated 6/23/2012
Joe Johnson played college basketball at the University of Arkansas and was coached by Nolan Richardson (in college).
High-sider
June 23rd, 2012
3:51 am
I believe the Heat will probably pursue a sixth man-type shooting guard who can provide consistent, quality perimeter shooting and “instant offense” off the bench (e.g., Ray Allen, Jason Terry or Jamal Crawford). I hope both Ray Allen and Jason Terry hate the Heat too much to sign with the Champs (and vice-versa) thus leaving the door open for – yes, that’s right – Jamal Crawford aka “The Difference” aka @jcrossover.
High-sider
June 23rd, 2012
3:54 am
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1231641-nba-free-agency-2012-jamal-crawford-and-hottest-shooting-guards-on-market
Jae Evolution
June 23rd, 2012
7:00 am
1. Package Marvin Williams to Brooklyn Nets for Morrow and their 57th pick. LD gets the shooter he has wanted and we get rid of Williams awful contract, Nets get a young wing, a position they lack to move them along. This also eliminates us having to look to overpay a Jamal/Allen type in free agency.
2. Try to get Bulls/Thunder/Heat late first pick for cheap they are set more or less team wise and don’t want to add guranteed salary, their picks could be had if we were aggressive.
3. Draft a combination of Fab Melo and a wing whether Harkless/Miller/White/Jones. Second round preferably a PG slot or another wing.
4. Re-sign T-Mac, Ivan, and Pargo the rest will see the door.
5. Pursue Omer Asik at all costs, Chicago will NOT be able to re-sign him if he is even slightly overpayed for.
Teague/Joe/Josh/Al/Asik — Pargo/Morrow/Draftee/Zaza/Melo — Reserves: Mac/Ivan/2nd rounder
None of this will happen, but I wanted to play GM for a day.
Jae Evolution
June 23rd, 2012
7:12 am
Also I know very little of Scott Machado’s game, but if we were able to get him in 2nd round he would be starting on the second unit, a pass-first PG over a much more trigger happy Pargo.
Big Daddy
June 23rd, 2012
7:42 am
There were times early during the regular season when I thought we had a great bench. To see Vlad hitting those 3’s from the wing and Green spotting up and hitting the open shots and Pargo coming in an upping the tempo. Not too mention Ivan bulling his way for rebound and scores. T-Mac showed real flashes of his old self on both offense and defense. All of them gave me inspiration and hope.
As the season wore on there were several issues that became apparent to me.
Ivan is imho opinion a time bomb waiting to go off. Although he can play well in long spurts, his meltdowns are scary. The fact that LD sent him home for disciplinary reasons during a road trip speaks volumes. Even after that, him getting into the face of a fan after a game says this guy, in a full season, is not going to make it, no matter what his basketball skills are.
Pargo became inconsistent with the good teams and his minutes when down significantly. The same can be said about Green.
T-Mac continued to give hope and provided the much needed leadership for the second unit when he was on the floor. He still has a tendency to get full of himself sometimes but, overall he did a good job. I don’t know if it is still in him to do it again.
I have always been a Stackhouse fan. However, the player I remembered is no longer there. The years have worn on him to the point where I believe he should be ready to move to the coaching ranks where I think he will do well.
We need players on the bench who can come not only come in a play their roles but to also do them consistently. Not just with the bad teams. However, given our salary constraints I don’t know how we will able to get the players we want. We need a GM who can be creative and truly understand what the team needs. Not the cheapest or the easiest to get.
Zaza continues to be a great player coming off the bench and if we can get a true center with some moves around the basket that who should be our starter. No small task for any GM.
There has been lots of talk about getting rid of Josh. Everyone seems to forget how poorly the team played when he was out for a few games toward the end of the season. The team did not suffer as much with Joe or Al out as it did with Josh. He does so much for this team and unless we get someone super to replace him, this is going to make the 2nd worse move for this team behind giving Joe that contract.
Paddy
June 23rd, 2012
8:27 am
Well,that summary did not energize the buying public. ASG will not or can not spend the money, neither should we!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!