Atlanta Hawks: Assistant GM Dave Pendergraft on the draft

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

June 17th, 2012
12:00 pm

……

Ronnie

June 17th, 2012
12:04 pm

Doesn’t seem as truculent as his boss.

sas

June 17th, 2012
12:20 pm

you can still find talent at 23 spot.Josh Smith was about 18-19 pick but somehow I have no faith.I hope im wrong

Rufus1

June 17th, 2012
12:40 pm

Sund and Pendagraft….have done a decent job in the draft

Teague and Jordan Crawford were very decent picks. I think Royce White and Nicholson are on the top of their list, unless Terrance Ross falls to them.

He thinks “shooting and rebounding transfers to the NBA”….Toney Wroten will not be drafted at #23.

Hawk-eye

June 17th, 2012
12:41 pm

Keep the incompetent and broke ass owners out of basketball decisions please !!

Just Joe

June 17th, 2012
12:43 pm

I hope Malcolm Thomas is targeted for summer league. David Lighty too.

Melvin

June 17th, 2012
12:47 pm

With his continue emphasis on the 23rd pick, I don’t expect to see the Hawks trying to move up in the draft….

Rick James

June 17th, 2012
12:47 pm

I’ts awful when a team is not amoung the elite yet cant lose enough for its fans to know that help is coming in the draft.And since the team awarded its third best player with one of the worst contracts in the history of pro sports no help is coming through a trade..The next unwise move will be not extending Josh Smith and losing him through free agency or trading him for lesser talent…The band plays on.

aytunstoppable

June 17th, 2012
1:11 pm

Fab Melo. if he’s there you draft Fab Melo period.

Stan Williams

June 17th, 2012
1:17 pm

I agree Fab Melo would be the pick .

Grandad

June 17th, 2012
1:40 pm

Fab Melo is not a shooter / scorer.
Fab Melo has not been a rebounder.
Fab Melo would not be a rotation player for 2 or 3 yrs at best.
Fab Melo is Hasheem Thabeet at worst.
Fab Melo why ?
____________________________________________

Fab Melo questions ?

His true age ?
His motor ? … [translate = lazy]
Exactly what are his skills ?

Again I say – Fab Melo – why ?

BC

June 17th, 2012
1:47 pm

Spirit Group. So sad.

cp

June 17th, 2012
1:53 pm

I actually like Pendergraft. Dude has done a solid job at finding talent given where we have been selecting in the draft. Sounds like Jeff Taylor might be that pick at 23 if Boston doesnt take him. He is a senior who can probably play from day 1. I wouldnt be mad at the choice depending on who is left on the board. Doesnt sound like Melo will be the choice. Dude is a poor rebounder and from watching the combine they mentioned how he often forgot the plays at Syracuse although they didnt have many. If its about a player that will take some time to develop then it might be Q Miller or Wroten although he did mention shooting and Wroten is not a good shooter.

Im glad they see that Sy is not a pg. It was obvious early that dude is a 2/3. He didnt have the ballhandling skills or playmaking ability to be a pg. I think Sy might make the roster. One thing we didnt have on the second unit this past season was a solid perimeter defender. Thats the one thing Damien Wilkins did well for the Hawks the prior season. He didnt have much offense but he was a very solid defender on the perimeter. Sy has the tools to be a solid perimeter defender. Cant wait for this draft and the summer league. The summer league games will be shown on NBATV this year.

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
1:55 pm

Rodney King [RIP]

cp

June 17th, 2012
1:55 pm

@Grandad. A lot of guys on here get caught up with having a 7 footer. And if you notice most times they dont seem to care if that 7 footer can actually play. They justlike them because of the size not the actuall basketball skills. I read that Melo has been less than impressive in his workouts.

cp

June 17th, 2012
1:56 pm

@Slim. I keep reading about how your boy Nicholson continues to impress in his workouts. I wont be shocked if he goes in the teens now.

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
2:08 pm

cp, who ever drafts Nicholson, will have an impact player who will change the face of their franchise for years to come..

What an incredible skilled big man!

His foot work is a God given gift. His eye/hand coordination is God given gifts…

He’s special…The Hawks should trade down and draft this special basketball player..

“Shoot the J! Shoot it!” – Dave Chapelle

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
2:14 pm

cp, Nicholson’s J looks better than most 2 guards from dream land? Huh? Yep

A beautiful smooth release and follow through..Picture perfect! Teach it!

“Shoot the J! Shoot it!” -Dave Chappelle-

Dawg

June 17th, 2012
2:24 pm

Someone said that Melo would only be a rotational player in a couple of years. For the Hawks to find a rotational player in a draft pick would be amazing.

Who has confidence in the Hawks?

cp

June 17th, 2012
2:41 pm

I like his game Slim. I just think he needs to get stronger.

doc

June 17th, 2012
3:03 pm

On chances of getting rotational-quality player with 23rd pick:

“That’s our hope. At 23 there are some guys that have potential and you have to wait on it and then there are several guys that might not have as much potential but you can put them in the game the first two or three years, whether it is four-year players or physically they are more mature. It’s just going to depend on who’s there. We would like to get a player that can come in and play for us next year.”

sounds like what they did with sheldon for sure and maybe with chills as both were four year guys about 24 coming into te league. if that is what he means fuhgidabout it.

msc

June 17th, 2012
3:06 pm

Im thinking J. Taylor, R. White or Nicholson.
Or Moe Harkless if he falls.

prison mike

June 17th, 2012
3:12 pm

It’s no way Nicholson get’s past either Boston’s picks. Get Plumlee in the 2nd round. The disparity between he and Melo will not be much at the next level.

Michael Gearon, Jr.

June 17th, 2012
3:15 pm

What do you mean “Assistant” GM??

KevinM

June 17th, 2012
3:23 pm

Slim, your guy is outdoing Melo. That might push Melo out of the 1st round. And I don’t like Melo on our team anyway.

But based on Pendergraft’s notes, I would say we need a scorer off the bench at 23. Lamb was here yesterday, Jenkins and Cunningham here today.
The best of that bunch might be the answer, but Jenkins is considered on boards as almost a given in the 1st round, where I’ve seen Lamb and Cunningham drop to the 2nd.
Give me Lamb, who has played in big games for 2 years now, with a FF and a NC under his belt. He quite possibly can get minutes behind both Joe and Teague.
#23 will be a bench guy, for Jeff Taylor is not going to be able to do much off the bench. If you think Taylor could start, I might be for him trying to win a starter’s slot.

Lamb gives you depth if you have Joe in trade discussions. We get something for Joe and should get an asset for him to add to the roster even if it would be a Gasol.

KevinM

June 17th, 2012
3:25 pm

Can Draymond Green work out better at SF than Taylor?

Ken Strickland

June 17th, 2012
3:29 pm

http://soaringdownsouth.com/2012/05/30/2012-nba-draft-hornets-win-lottery-hawks-to-draft-23rd/

Here’s a very interesting article on the Hawks draft.

Ken Strickland

June 17th, 2012
3:36 pm

http://www.foxsportssouth.com/06/15/12/Hawks-eyeing-size-in-pre-draft-workouts/landing_hawks.html?blockID=746742&feedID=3557

Here’s another interesting article.

prison mike

June 17th, 2012
3:38 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnbYDmZHi00

I like this guy in the 2nd depending who is still there. I want White in the 1st. His rebounding and interior defense is elite.

Rufus1

June 17th, 2012
3:44 pm

Draft the best player available…

At #23 the best basketball player won’t be a center…unless someone slips.

I think the Hawks need a SLASHER or LOW POST scorer more than a center….Also, I think the depth in this draft is at the PF/C rebound /shot blocker. Most ppl only talk about Melo and Ezeli but there are others in this draft… O’Quinn, Bernard James, Sacre, Roberson(Colorado) and Plumlee, who might be availible at #43

None of the 1st rd worthy wing players we will look at will be available at #43… I think Jared Cunningham was the best in the country at getting to the line(That is a skill we don’t have and is hard to get), we can’t pass on a player like that for a STIFF big man..

Best player regardless of position.

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
3:49 pm

0
2012 NBA Draft: Atlanta Hawks to hold workouts from June 16 – June 26
Jun 12th, 2012 at 5:33 pm by Daniel ChristianAnalysis

UPDATE: Hawks full workout schedule released, courtesy of Michael Cunningham of the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

The list from MC’s article has been recreated below, for you and your viewing pleasure:

June 16: Kris Joseph (F, Syracuse, Sr.), Doron Lamb (G, Kentucky, So.), Quincy Miller (F, Baylor, Fr.)

June 17: Jared Cunningham (G, Oregon State, Jr.), John Jenkins (G, Vanderbilt, Jr.)

June 19: Draymond Green (F, Michigan State, Sr.), Darius Miller (F, Kentucky, Sr.)

June 20: Will Barton (G, Memphis, So.), William Buford (G, Ohio State, Sr.), Eric Griffin (F, Campbell, Sr.), Khris Middleton (F, Texas A&M, Jr.), Jeffrey Taylor (F, Vanderbilt, Sr.), Hollis Thompson (F, Georgetown, Jr.)

June 21: Miles Plumlee (F, Duke, Sr.), Garret Stutz (C, Wichita State, Sr.)

June 22: Kevin Jones (F, West Virginia, Sr.), Andrew Nicholson (F, St. Bonaventure, Sr.), Mike Scott (F, Virginia, Sr.), Royce White (F, Iowa State, So.)

June 23: Festus Ezeli (C, Vanderbilt, Sr.), Scott Machado (G, Iona, Sr.), Fab Melo (C, Syracuse, So.), Henry Sims (F, Georgetown, Sr.)

June 24: Jae Crowder (F, Marquette, Sr.), Moe Harkless (F, St. Johns, Fr.)

June 26: Tyshawn Taylor (G, Kansas, Sr.), Tony Wroten (G, Washington, Fr.)

***

“According to Steve Kyler of HOOPSWORLD, the Atlanta Hawks will work out 12 players for the 23rd pick in the NBA Draft.

Those players are: Doron Lamb (Kentucky), Darius Miller (Kentucky), Tyshawn Taylor (Kansas), Quincy Miller (Baylor), Festus Ezeli (Vanderbilt), Jeff Taylor (Vanderbilt), John Jenkins (Vanderbilt), Royce White (Iowa State), Moe Harkless (St. Johns), Draymond Green (Michigan State), Fab Melo (Syracuse), and Scott Machado (Iona).

According to a report from Jason Smith of the Commercial Appeal, the Hawks also plan on working out Will Barton (Memphis).

Now out of these 13 players, Darius Miller, Tyshawn Taylor, Green, and maybe even Machado seem like a stretch at the 23rd pick. The rest seem like viable first round options.

It’s become increasingly clear by looking at this list that the Hawks are focused on adding a small forward, with some interest in shooters and bigs as well. 8 of the 13 listed project as small forwards in the NBA, while the rest seem to be scattered amongst the positions.

The Hawks could honestly use some help at every position, but small forward appears to be the weakest by nature of the team. Marvin Williams, Jerry Stackhouse, Vladimir Radmanovic, and Tracy McGrady all spent time at small forward, as did Joe Johnson. That shouldn’t sit well with Coach Drew as 3 of those are washed up vets (Stack, Vlad-Rad, T-Mac), one is out of position (Johnson), and the other just isn’t that good (Williams). Adding a player like Moe Harkless, Jeff Taylor, Quincy Miller, or Royce White could provide some much needed depth at the struggling position, along with some fresh legs. It would behoove Atlanta to infuse this roster with more talented youth, as opposed to scrounging through a regular season with a bench full of veterans that half of this league’s fans have never heard of.

Not only does a youth movement like this instill confidence in the team’s player development capabilities, but it also makes the Hawks a little more frightening. While I love Willie Green, no one is scared of him or anyone else on Atlanta’s bench even putting the ball on the floor. Add some fresher, quicker, and bouncier legs, and that’s not the case, especially if they can shoot. Guys like Moe Harkless and Jeff Taylor are incredible slashers with supreme athletic abilities. Guys like Quincy Miller and Royce White are guys who can shoot from outside and put the ball on the floor.

If it was up to me, and thankfully it isn’t, I’d flip a few coins to decide between a few players. I love Will Barton, John Jenkins, Q. Miller, White, Harkless, and J. Taylor. I love Fab Melo and Festus Ezeli. All of these guys could become starters in the league one day, and each could very well develop their own little niche skill (if they don’t already have one).

I love that the Hawks are looking towards some critical needs, and hopefully management addresses more of them come free agency. Of course, trading up still isn’t out of the question, but this draft has so many potential “good not great” players that I’d be thrilled with several of the guys set to workout for Atlanta soon. The crazy thing is that so many teams will have an opportunity to add an instant impact player this late in the first round. It’s rare to find so many players of this quality at the 23rd pick. Hopefully the Hawks take advantage of it.”

The Hawks tryout Nicholson on this Friday the 22nd! Once they see him ball they will be convinced this is their guy!

They better!

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
3:58 pm

“One June 22, St. Bonaventure’s Andrew Nicholson, listed as a forward at 6-9, 240, will visit. He averaged 18.5 points and 8.4 rebounds playing in the Atlantic 10 as a senior, when he was an honorable-mention All-America selection.”

Go get him Hawks!

Great links Ken!!!!!

Ken Strickland

June 17th, 2012
4:51 pm

SLIMJR-Thanks. If I was the Hawks GM I’d contact the Lakers to see if they would be interested in a MWilliams and JSmith fpr PGasol trade. That would give us the a rebounding, shot blocking inside/ourside scoring center we cove, and would allow us to move Horford to PF. We could then draft a SF with the #23 pick, and we should be able to get a quality SF with that pick.

That would give us a solid core of 7 players with C-PGasol, PF-AHorford, SF-Draft Pick, SG-JJohnson, PG-JTeague, backup C-ZPachulia, PF/C-IJohnson. We could bring over one of the Euro players we have stashed overseas, and try to resign PG-JPargo, maybe SG-WGreen., and our 2nd rd pick. Sign a backup SF and we’d have a solid, young, athletic, well balanced team.

If that didn’t workout, I’d go with the Big Lineup of C-ZPachulia, PF-AHorford, SF-JSmith, SG-JJohnson, and PG-JTeague, with MWilliams and IJohnson completing our core 7 players. I know some think Josh can’t play SF, but he played SF his 1st couple of yrs. With his weight loss and regained athleticism, he could do it.

While he wouldn’t be the idea SF, he’d create a ton of matchup problems for the opposition. I can’t think of any SF who could match his size, strength, and athleticism down on the block. From a DEF standpoint, defending SFs wouldn’t be anymore difficult for him than the PGs and SGs he was forced to guard under former HC MWooodson’s switching DEF. Just a thought.

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
5:24 pm

(( clapping @ Mr. Strickland ))

We are in total agreement with that trade.

Not in agreement with Josh Smith playing SF Josh Smith should only play PF if Joe Johnson is gone. Zaza is not a better center than Al Horford. And Josh Smith isn’t a better SF than Joe Johnson.

Playing Smith at SF should be a last resort, with the current construction of the team.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 17th, 2012
5:26 pm

“With his continue emphasis on the 23rd pick, I don’t expect to see the Hawks trying to move up in the draft….”

Of course, they could always move down and collect a few million dollars extra to pay the electric bills like they did in 2010.

tjhook

June 17th, 2012
5:32 pm

Everybody keeps harping on talent but what the team needs is leadership. MR. CUNNINGHAM, why won’t you write about that? The owners paid Joe Johnson big bucks because it was assumed prematurely that Joe would become more of an oncourt leader. Reality has shown that he is only a glorified mercenary. Josh Smith is a better player but not necessarily a more disciplined one. Bibby was immobile but he at least discouraged Smith from shooting so much on the perimeter before he was traded. Teague appears to have no confidence placed in him by Drew so we are leaderless on the court. This is why the team gets labeled as immature. There is a significant void in leadership. Knight recognized that when he first brought in Bibby and Hinrich didn’t fill that void.
I wanted Tony Parker but I would be more than happy if we brought in Andre Miller. The team’s core (Smith, Johnson, Horford, Pachulia) are in their best window now and Miller does what Teague does best (dribble penetration) and also is a better defender. It is in our best interest to trade Teague now- he’s talented but not an oncourt leader – not his fault but Van Exel has to stay in his ear constantly about being assertive. The Hawks need someone who can direct the team when they are in tight situations. We play the best teams close but have trouble with offensive structure when things get tight. See this year’s playoff series. LD should go for this since he will he has only a one year contract. THIS is what you should be asking the GM and coach before the draft. Stay with a young point guard or go with a proven one to lead this core.

tjhook

June 17th, 2012
5:34 pm

by the way: Jeff Teague and Marvin Williams to a lottery team. Sacramento, maybe?

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
5:44 pm

tj . . . I’ve never heard anyone call Joe Johnson, or Al Horford, or Jeff Teague “immature”. There’s only one person on the team that fits that description.

As far as this team needing a leader, I agree. Whether it be in the backcourt or the frontcourt, the team definitely needs a leader. Of this current group, Al Horford is best suited to be that guy. Teague could run the team if people stop messing with him all the time. And once again, there’s only one player and the coach who messes with Jeff Teague.

tjhook

June 17th, 2012
5:51 pm

The TNT studio has always called us immature. And select members of the media have as well.
On leadership, Teague is just not allowed to mature here at a rate sufficient enough to help the team move forward in the playoffs. And most importantly, we don’t need a voice for leadership, we need structure. That was the best thing Woodson offered – only Iso Joe was not enough to win championships. We need a veteran point guard to run LD’s offense and FORCE our core to stay focused with executing plays when we are in tight or adverse situations. I grew frustrated with some of Drew’s personnel decisions but overall the team did perform better over the course of the season. They just need to improve upon last season and Teague cannot be trusted as a leader to make this happen. And the leadership needs to come from the point guard position.

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
6:03 pm

And I wanted Dre Miller on this team 4 years ago, instead of re-signing Bibby. While Miller can’t shoot the deep ball, he can go to the hole, post up opposing PGs, and make the right plays in the half court.

But even if we acquired Miller, I’d keep Teague as the starter. He played a lot of 2 guard in Denver last year, so we may could get away with him being our “Hinrich” for next season.

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
6:05 pm

tj . . . TNT’s and the media’s target has been Josh Smith. No one else on this team gets called out for their immaturity.

They call out JJ for his “quietness” and lack of leadership
Most everyone loves Horford.
Most everyone likes Teague.
There’s hardly any opinion on Marvin

As a whole, the team is called “soft” and “too nice”.

But when it comes to maturity, Josh Smith is always the target.

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
6:08 pm

tj . . . just do a google search, and type in any Hawks player name + the word “immature” next to it, and see what pops up.

UGA

June 17th, 2012
6:09 pm

If the Hawks use the midlevel or bi-annual exception does that put them over the cap?

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
6:10 pm

Actually, they call JJ out for a number of things ( being overpaid, not a #1 option, not aggressive, etc ) . . but hardly ever for his immaturity.

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
6:13 pm

UGA

Not necessarily. They have a little over 10 million to sign 7 players. The Mid-Level probably takes us above the line. The Bi-Annual wouldn’t, but put us very close to it.

O'Brien

June 17th, 2012
6:40 pm

FTPB,

Ra’mon,

Would either of you be for trading our pick and Zaza for Houston’s two first rounders? Or would you be for trading Teague and Zaza for both of their picks while keeping our pick?.

I don’t want to trade Jeff, because I think he will continue to improve. However, I am open to trading Zaza though, because he is what he is, and he only has one year left on his deal.

That being said, Houston has a $6.7 mil option on Dalembert, so I assume they will keep him, and keep their picks to draft a guy like Zeller to back him up.

cp

June 17th, 2012
6:45 pm

@Rufus. Cunninham is a guy i would love to get in the second round. I just dont see him being on the board by the time the Hawks pick again. As you stated, he gets to the line. We need more players like him that attack and get to the charity stripe. Can you imagine him and Teague on a fast break, well if Teague is actually allowed to run the break but thats a different story.

I think what the Hawks do really depends on what Boston does ahead of them. I could see Boston taking Nicholson and Taylor. Those are two players who really fit the description Pendergraft made about shooters, seniors, and guys who can play from day 1.

O'Brien

June 17th, 2012
6:49 pm

northcyde,

When Bibby became a FA, I wanted the Hawks to sign Andre Miller, and I was even open to Jarrett Jack. What’s ironic is the Sixers let Miller go, and the Pacers let Jack go, but we overpaid Bibby to keep him.

What’s ironic is LD said (emphatically) that JC2 is not a PG, but yet he insisted on playing JC1 at PG, and insisted at playing Sy at PG, when everybody knows neither of them are PGs.

And I think it all comes back to LD not knowing how to put players in a position to maximize their talents.

O'Brien

June 17th, 2012
6:51 pm

Najeh,

From nydailynews.com;

- The Memphis Grizzlies’ sale to Robert J. Pera, announced this past week, is already in serious trouble, according to league sources. Pera owns Ubiquiti Networks, a Silicon Valley communications technology company.

When its stock bottomed out in the last two weeks, his net worth plummeted from $1 billion to $200 million, according to league insiders who say that unless he has some wealthy partners lined up to help him finance the sale, it will likely fall through.

In that case, the Grizzlies will continue to be owned by Michael Heisley. Pera agreed to buy the team for $350 million, a figure that raised many eyebrows around the league..

So much for that.

UGA

June 17th, 2012
6:51 pm

So if the midlevel puts us over then we pay the luxury tax?

How much is the bi-annual for? 2 million or so?

hawk21

June 17th, 2012
6:51 pm

I am watching the finals (Championship), who are playing center for both team? OKC-Perkins/Obaka? Then Miami-Haslem? You can see that all are not true centers! What is wrong with our fans. Resign Josh, keep everyone the same. Shop MW,Kirk and 1 rd pick! Release Twin, Stack, Vlad!!!!

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
6:57 pm

Yea but who playing the SF for OKC and The Heat? Hmmmmmm?

We have “it was a good #2 lottery pick” playing the SF for the Hawks…See the difference? Hmmmm

Major difference/drop off….lol

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
7:31 pm

SlimJr . . exactly.

Heat’s top 2 players: Lebron and Wade
Thunder’s top 2 players: Durant and Westbrook
Hawks’ top 2 players: Johnson and Smith

Only way to beat those types of teams is to become as strong as possible in your starting unit, and hope your bench doesn’t completely suck.

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
7:32 pm

Even the Heat and Thunder’s #3 player . . . Bosh and Harden . . . could legitimately be the #1 guy here.

steven a smith

June 17th, 2012
7:38 pm

Chris Kaman will be an excellent veteran addition. Starting center for the next 3 years while we groom a younger player,

tony

June 17th, 2012
7:49 pm

The former and present owners of this franchise have disppointed the fanbase for 44 years. I think it would be in ASG best interest if they would allow the fans to choose the hc and players whom they believe will bring a championship to Atlanta. ASG will be well appreciated if they did this.

glw

June 17th, 2012
7:54 pm

northcyde,

you mentioned the Hawks have about 10 million for 7 players. So would you say assuming no trades are made, the Hawks will follow a plan of something like this?

I figure the 1st rd pick will be slotted at 1.2 or 1.3 million and Ivan is tendered and is resigned for about 1 million, I would go as far as to say at least 1 player will be a young developmental player like maybe Pape Sy or the 2nd rd pick, who they dont have to pay but 500K for.

That essentially means that the Hawks would have 7 million for 4 players. So at best maybe they use the mini mid level or something in the 2-3 million range to sign 1 player and the remaining 3 players would be guys on the vet minimum, assuming its in the 1.3 or 1.4 million range.

tjhook

June 17th, 2012
8:15 pm

@northcyde,

Immature doesn’t always means stupid. Immature can simply be the inability to accomplish stated goal. Joe’s quietness, Marvin’s softness, Horford’s inability to successfully push team over hump strategically . . . they all play a part. Horford is unfortunately lumped in with the group, but JJ, Smoove and Marvin are the true culprits . . . and these three offer the greatest variety of talent on the team. So that is why I reference immaturity.
Teague is just a year late, a season short. LD should have played him in his first season- he did not. That attitude in my mind meant that LD can only trust and reach veteran players. Besides,the most important thing is this is LD’s PROVE IT season. He was lucky to get that – so he should play for now
Andre Miller for leadership. Then you can look at bringing in Pargo again or even Donald Sloan.

tjhook

June 17th, 2012
8:15 pm

And I’m not sure if we could sign Andre Miller as a mid-level guy, but if we can, the team should.

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

June 17th, 2012
8:23 pm

Finished reading Donaghy’s book.

Smh. Grandad was right.

Priest Lauderdale

June 17th, 2012
8:27 pm

I am hoping they draft my son.

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
8:42 pm

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

June 17th, 2012
8:23 pm

“Finished reading Donaghy’s book.”

I got to get a copy of that book!

Did not Tim accuse the old ref that Barkley kissed on the lips and raced up and down the court a few years ago during AllStar festivities as being corrupted? Hmmmm

Actually he accused several refs still employed today of being part of the Chief Gangsters Cartel?

Where there is smoke, there is usually fire…

steven a smith

June 17th, 2012
8:45 pm

Give Hasheem Thabeet an opportunity. “Low Risk” type of player. vet min. for 3 years… Jeff Green would be another guy who can hel this team at the 3 and 4.

High-sider

June 17th, 2012
8:52 pm

When is a “jump stop,” a “jump stop” and [IS] NOT a travel[ing violation] and when is an “up-and-down,” an “up-and-down” and [IS] a travel[ing violation]? What’s [really] the difference? I saw LBJ come to a “jump stop” after soaring through the air for about ten to fifteen feet like he [LBJ] was “broad jumping” in the Olympics.

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
9:00 pm

its call a pro hop H-s..LOL!

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
9:01 pm

We called it a travel in the play grounds of Da Bronx….

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
9:03 pm

Wade cant throw it in the Ocean…His game has been off for a while…

High-sider

June 17th, 2012
9:22 pm

‘Rio Chalmers’ Game 3 first half stats vs. the Thunder: 0-4 from the field, 0pts, 0rebs, 1ast, 1stl, and 1trnover in 17:27 of playing time

And some of you [bloggers] want[ed] this guy [Chalmers] playing for the Hawks? Dude [Chalmers] lacks consistency – straight up.

The Heat [team] needs a 6th-man like Jamal Crawford to provide scoring off the bench. ‘Rio [is] not getting it done [at all].

High-sider

June 17th, 2012
9:36 pm

@Slimjr

So, Slimjr, can I take a 19-ft. “pro hop” [jump stop] from the 20-ft. arc, come to a stop and then take a one-foot shot at the basket? LOL

Rufus1

June 17th, 2012
9:41 pm

CP,

I love players who attack the rim. We have too many jump shooters on this team. imagine how back court of Teague and Cunningham would effect Joe, Al and Marvin.

If we could get a White/Nicholson/Taylor/ and Cunningham, I would be very happy.

I want the Hawks to trade next years #1 for Clev or OKC #1

High-sider

June 17th, 2012
9:55 pm

Grandad, you’re tellin’ me that Coach Spo’ is credited for “fixing” D-Wade’s [perimeter] shot? Have you seen D-Wade’s jumper lately? And he’s [D-Wade] somewhat mediocre from the FT line.

Those were stupid, terrible fouls by Chalmers and Ibaka on [the] 3pt. shooters [Fisher and Battier].

WHY ARE THEY STILL HERE ?????

June 17th, 2012
10:21 pm

WHY DO YOU ALL DISCUSS THIS WASTE OF A FRANCHISE ?

THEY MUST BE SOLD AND MOVED, THIS TOWN DOES NOT NEED nba BASKETBALL, WHAT A BORING AS HELL SPORT !!!!!

MOVE TO SEATTLE ASAP PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

June 17th, 2012
10:24 pm

# 23 Fab Melo

# 43 Eric Griffin

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

June 17th, 2012
10:25 pm

I heard about this guy last year, i have never seen Eric play but drafting him in second round is not a reach.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

June 17th, 2012
10:27 pm

http://youtu.be/Zr-s7HIOS9Q

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
10:43 pm

Wow Miami trying to lose this game? 9 TO’s in the 4th?

Miami’s coach is scratching his head!

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

June 17th, 2012
10:56 pm

I believe every single thing Donaghy said about the state of officiating in that book

Smh

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
11:02 pm

doc, WiltJr 29 and 14. Has made 25 of 29 free throws..Getting it done Sir?

Kevin Loughery[.417 career winning %] could win with this Miami Franchise…Not impressed with
Erik Spoelstra at all….

James Harden went 2-10..Ouch!

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
11:10 pm

glw

June 17th, 2012
7:54 pm

northcyde,

you mentioned the Hawks have about 10 million for 7 players. So would you say assuming no trades are made, the Hawks will follow a plan of something like this?

I figure the 1st rd pick will be slotted at 1.2 or 1.3 million and Ivan is tendered and is resigned for about 1 million, I would go as far as to say at least 1 player will be a young developmental player like maybe Pape Sy or the 2nd rd pick, who they dont have to pay but 500K for.

That essentially means that the Hawks would have 7 million for 4 players. So at best maybe they use the mini mid level or something in the 2-3 million range to sign 1 player and the remaining 3 players would be guys on the vet minimum, assuming its in the 1.3 or 1.4 million range.

********************

That 10 million I was talking about, would be if we were to trade Smith + Marvin for Gasol + 1st round pick ( next available that Lakers could trade )

As of right now, if we keep the team together, we’d have 6 players under contract at 60.9 million. We need at minimum 7 more players. If the luxury tax line is somewhere around 70.3 million . . that’s about 9.4 million for 7 players.

So let’s do what you did:

1st round pick . . 1.2 mill
Ivan Johnson . . . 1.0 mill
2nd round pick . . 0.5 mill

Total . . . . . . . . . 2.7 mill

So now you’re at 9 players and 63.6 million. We need 4 more players with about 6.7 mill to spare

Bi-Annual Guy . . 1.9 mill
Vet Minimum . . . 1.3 mill
Vet Minimum . . . 1.3 mill
Vet Minimum . . . 1.3 mill

Total . . . . . . . . . . 5.8 mill

13 players . . . . . 69.4 mill . . with still another mill to play with. So maybe you add a 14th guy like a Pape Sy or a big man for 500K. Or you dabble in that 2 – 3 million range for that player you really want in free agency, then fill it out with vet minimum guys.

Or you give Ivan a raise and/or another guaranteed year, to make sure he sticks around. I think Ivan at 2 yrs – 2.5 mill ( 1.25 mill a year ) would be a good bargain for the Hawks. Even if you go 2 yrs – 3 mill, that’s a good deal.

We’re going to have to make sure we get this 1st round pick right, with a guy who can play and contribute right away. And we need to find at least 2 free agent guys who can contribute on a nightly basis. That would give us a solid 10 players to roll with.

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
11:17 pm

If no trades happen amongst our regular guys, here is your 2012 – 13 Hawks

PG – Teague
G – Johnson
F – Marvin
PF – Smith
C – Horford

PG –
G -
F –
PF – Ivan
C – Zaza

G -
F/C –
C –

Plug in where you want the 1st and 2nd round draft picks to go . . . along with the one Bi-Annual guy ( whom I doubt will be good enough to replace a starter ) . . and the 3 vet minimum guys.

northcyde

June 17th, 2012
11:26 pm

The Hawks got that “rebate” for all of the vet minimum players they signed last year, so instead of 1.3 mill, we paid 0.85 mill. So re-calculate that last part of the salary breakdown:

Bi-Annual Guy: 1.9 mill
Vet Minimum: 0.85
Vet Minimum: 0.85
Vet Minimum: 0.85

Total: apprpx 4.5 mill . . . . add that to the 63.6 mill for 9 players . . . that’s 68 mill for 13 players.

Still 2+ mill under the Luxury Tax, which gives you room to pay 3 mill for a free agent that you really want, and still fill out the rest of the roster while staying under the Tax.

UGA

June 17th, 2012
11:30 pm

So if the Hawks sign Pargo or Willie Green they only pay .850?

UGA

June 17th, 2012
11:32 pm

I’d like to see if we can find some way to split the mid-level exception and use it for a combo guard like Randy Foye and a SF like Josh Howard. I think that would be reasonable for those two plus they could each help us

KevinM

June 17th, 2012
11:34 pm

So n’cyde, we did or didn’t pay the tax last year? All we heard was the ASG saying we went over to get help when Al went down.

Have we been suckered once again by the ASG?

glw

June 17th, 2012
11:35 pm

@northcyde

Ok, that sounds about right, I doubt that they would want to add a 14 players if it gets them too close to the luxury tax. Maybe if it gets late in the season and they want to pick up a vet minimum guy for the playoff run, I think they might.

Assuming they bring in 4 veterans, I figure it will be

1. veteran pg
2. shooter
3. wing defender
4. big man

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
11:40 pm

H-s, Shaq just said on NBA TV that the “PRO HOP” Lebron executed in the game was a legal play as long as you land on two feet and does not matter how much ground you cover on the landing…
He said Coach Tom Penders taught him that move way back in college….

UGA

June 17th, 2012
11:44 pm

Here is who I think we will look at:

PG: Tinsley and Pargo
SG: Green, Foye, Arenas, Redd
SF: Korver, Howard, Ronnie Brewer
C: Ryan Hollins and Collins

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
11:48 pm

UGA, don’t drink and drive! LMAO!

Slimjr

June 17th, 2012
11:54 pm

Hey UGA, after reading your list again, I better not drink and drive…hehehehe

You wrote “look” at. Not sign up…

Only takes 5

June 18th, 2012
12:04 am

The Atlanta Buttheads would not know a ballplayer if they went to the Hall of Fame everyday for a year. POPSY?????? l make jokes about them drafting popsie and they actually still talk about him in summer league. lol We will never, or NEVER draft Byrd, Jordan, Bryant, or James, etc.. l keep up with the draft to get a laugh at whom the hawks will pick. hahahaha. Fans of hawks have to laugh to forget the pain.

glw

June 18th, 2012
12:04 am

@UGA

At PG, I think Tinsley would be a good pick up or maybe Derek Fisher, not sure he would come here though. Delonte West has a screw loose, but might be a good pickup too though not a true pg

For a shooter, I have always been intrigued by Roger Mason Jr. he seems to bounce around a lot though. Deshawn Stevenson would work good here too. I love his defense and plays with a chip on his shoulder.

Could you imagine a 2nd team that consisted of Delonte West, Deshawn Stevenson, Zaza, and Ivan? They might not outscore a lot of teams, but they sure would hurt somebody.

High-sider

June 18th, 2012
12:09 am

D-Wade [is] doing an interview on ESPN with the eyeglasses and no lenses. What a “look”! [LMAO]

northcyde

June 18th, 2012
12:20 am

Knock off another 1 million off of that total, if they simply decide to go with a cheap vet minimum guy, instead of using the Bi-Annual on somebody.

Knock off even more money if they decide to stock the team with a bunch of young guys that they brought in for summer camp.

Would the fans be mad if these were the Hawks additions next year:

- Jeff Taylor ( 1st round pick ) . . 6-7 . . 213 lbs

- Kyle O’Quinn ( 2nd round pick ) . . . the 6-10 . . 240 lbs PF/C from Norfolk St

- Pape Sy ( 6-6 . . 185 lbs )

- Scoop Jardine ( the PG from Syracuse, currently projected to go undrafted ) . . 6-3 . . 200 lbs

- Yancy Gates ( the PF/C from Cincinnati, projected by most to go undrafted ) . . 6-8 . . 290 lbs

- Veteran free agent ( probably a shooter/scorer at G or F ) . . hate to say it, but this sounds a lot like Jannero Pargo

**************************

2012 – 13 roster

PG: Teague – Pargo – Jardine

G: Johnson – Sy

F: Marvin – Taylor

PF: Smith – Ivan – O’Quinn

C: Horford – Zaza – Gates

This would give you a core 8 players + Taylor being in the rotation as the 9th guy. The rest of the guys could fight for playing time. And instead of bringing in “old big men”, we go with the youth movement on the frontline, with O’Quinn and Gates possibly being a replacement at backup center for Zaza ( whom we should NOT overpay for, to keep here ).

And we’d deal with the Smith situation at the end of the year.

High-sider

June 18th, 2012
12:22 am

@Slimjr

Slimjr, on that “pro hop” or “jump stop” [aka long jump or broad jump], LBJ looked better than Mike Powell, Bob Beamon and Carl Lewis on their best days in the Olympics. [LOL]

I also heard what Shaq said about LBJ’s “jump stop” on NBA TV.

northcyde

June 18th, 2012
12:28 am

KevinM

June 17th, 2012
11:34 pm

So n’cyde, we did or didn’t pay the tax last year? All we heard was the ASG saying we went over to get help when Al went down.

Have we been suckered once again by the ASG?

*************************

The Hawks were stupid last year. They didn’t need to sign Jerry Stackhouse to the team. We had more than enough guards. But we went over the tax only because we signed Stackhouse, and then Dampier later in the year. They didn’t have to do both.

Hinrich being off the books helps out this year. LOL . . that’s who I forgot in that shooter/scorer role. Hinrich has said that he’s not going to play for the vet minimum. The Hawks may offer someone like him 2 mill for 2 years to come back. I bet that would fire up the fan base.

Yeah . . the Hawks would bring back Hinrich and Pargo . . maybe draft a wing and a big . . and sign a young wing and a big.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 18th, 2012
12:28 am

Wow. Must be nice to lose $800 million in 2 weeks and still be worth nine figures.

northcyde

June 18th, 2012
12:30 am

Add Ivan to that “bring back list”

- Pargo
- Hinrich
- Ivan

- 1st round pick
- 2nd round pick

- young free agent
- young free agent

pg

June 18th, 2012
12:31 am

Hawks Coaching and management are stuck on the highway with no gas or a clue of where to go! This can be fixed, maybe let Williams, ZaZa, Hinrich, Jeff and all the names on the bench go and take that money and try and bring Dwight Howard or some TRUE BALLER here. Draft real players, use lack of players on contract to get some real under the radar talent. But this is WAAAAAYYYY over this ownership and management head. So we will continue to go one and done.

northcyde

June 18th, 2012
12:36 am

2 years for 4 mill ( 2 mill a year )

Buddy Grizzard

June 18th, 2012
12:40 am

FTPB:

“Yes, Buddy give Sund credit for drafting Teague. The same Rick Sund who told us he doesn’t deal with the draft in his own front office.

And Pargo is not the answer as a backup, but since we are cap-strung, it may be him or LD’s pet Pape.” – KevinM

If Pendergraph found Teague, Sund is the GM who hired Pendergraph. At the end of the day Sund is the GM. If that pick is a bust or if it turns into a competent starting point guard, the credit or the blame goes to Sund for either spotting the talent, or putting the team in place to spot it.

Think OKC where Sam Presti, who talked the Spurs into drafting Tony Parker, is GM. He brought Troy Weaver with him. Weaver (whom we should be going after as our next GM) helped convince the Thunder to draft Westbrook where most agreed he was a reach. He also helped convince the organization to draft Harden. But at the end of the day, Presti is the genius because he brought Weaver with him to be part of his staff. If Westbrook was a complete bust, Presti would take the blame for it.

Also, I’m glad we agree Pargo is not the answer as the backup point guard for the Hawks. His performance in the playoffs, which likely cost the Hawks a shot at going to the ECF, should show any serious basketball observer that he is an end-of-the-bench scrub, not somebody who should have ever had his number called ahead of a legit rotation player like Hinrich. And Pendergraph acknowledges that Sy can’t play point, so that’s not the answer either. I’m 100% on board with going after Andre Miller. I wanted him so bad in that draft where we got Jet with the next pick after he was taken.

SteveW

June 18th, 2012
12:41 am

Sund, in his interview the other day indicated that the Hawks still had their bi-annual exception to use.

Wikipedia says the bi-annual exception was eliminated with the new CBA. It says speaking of the bi-annual exception,

“The exception was eliminated following the 2011 NBA lockout as many high spending teams were using this as a tool to gain top paid players.[6]”

I wonder which is correct – Sund or Wikipedia?

You would think Sund, but with Sund thinking retirement, you never know – and with this bunch, who are used to selling picks and signing vet min. guys, you really never know. They’ve never used it before have they?

SteveW

June 18th, 2012
12:45 am

Glad Sy is getting another look. I thought he played ok in camp last season – DLeague and Summer also. No J to speak of, but can get to the hoop at will, and plays strong D.

SteveW

June 18th, 2012
12:49 am

Team:

ZaZa
Al
Josh
Marvin
JJ
Teague
Sy
1st pick
2nd pick
Benson?

That’s 10 guys.

I see why Sund isn’t making noise about trading Josh for the 2nd pick, like he did last season. Thomas Robinson just doesn’t look as promising as Al Horford coming out of college. He’s shorter than Al, weaker in the Bench press than Al, has no offensive game to speak of – but he does rebound well.

MKG, Beal, Drummond – that UNC guy – they all have question marks.

SteveW

June 18th, 2012
12:52 am

Reading the Chicago news, it seems they either want Kidd or Hinrich to play PG with DRose out.

Can’t believe they’re thinking of cutting Watson – that guys good – maybe not starter good – but 18 mpg off the bench good.

SteveW

June 18th, 2012
12:53 am

Folks are saying Miller is up to 7 mill per year – I’m saying wow.

I wonder what we can get Billups for – he’s out until Jan.

SteveW

June 18th, 2012
12:55 am

Didn’t we already announce Caracter, Hazell, and Butch?

I’m guessing Butch makes the team unless he’s injured.

SteveW

June 18th, 2012
12:57 am

That SF out of Missouri Draftexpress has us drafting sounds good – can’t remember his name – Man, I’m getting old!

SteveW

June 18th, 2012
12:58 am

Royce White in the 1st round Draftexpress has us getting looks slow as Christmas on film. But he’s huge. He threw Nicholson off like a child at the combine.

Grandad

June 18th, 2012
1:30 am

Jump-stop vs Pro-hop

Jump-stop;
is a perfectly legitimate, authorized, sanctioned, permissable, legal
move any league anywhere.
executed by;
ballhandler must be dribbling and leave floor while:
(a) ball is between dribbles [e.g. not in ballhandlers hand]
(b) ballhandler must land on two feet simultaneously
Thus, he`s allowed to pivot.

If `n he leaves floor with ball in his hands,
then he must release ball before landing or it is a travel.

If `n he has the ball in his hands and jumps, [leaves the floor]
then the same rule apllies.

otherwise the basic rules of basketball
would need to be thrown out the window.

The Pro-Hop;

Whatever the heck that is ?
A creation of the NBA perhaps ?
just like the added Xtra step:
two steps are now permissable in the NBA [by rule]
after a ballhandler picks up his dribble.
A basic castration of the Rules of the Game.
I`m certain that the Pro-Hop is some sort of NBA referee
interpretation of the original rules that allow for greater
entertainment value;
also applied only when Shaq, LBJ or other select few
use said moves.
Guaranteed that if Zaza tried the Pro-Hop
he would be called for travelling !

High-sider

June 18th, 2012
2:01 am

@Grandad

Thanks for the “Jump-stop” vs “Pro-hop” breakdown.

Ernest

June 18th, 2012
6:00 am

MC, maybe I missed your comment from before but are you going to continue the season review series on the remaining players on the team?

Astro Joe

June 18th, 2012
9:57 am

I’m glad to hear the Hawks are focused on a player who is ready to contribute sooner than later. Pendergraft also raises a good point about the summer league roster likely being among the better gropu of players due to the number of vacancies on the team. This may be Sy’s last chance to prove that he is an NBA talent… too bad it took the Hawks 2 years to determine if he is not a PG. He appears to be more athlete than basketball player… seems like 6′5″ guys who can jump can be found anywhere. But LD gets another shot with his pet project.

SteveW

June 18th, 2012
10:09 am

AJ – The thing about Sy is his ability to get to the hoop. Remember Pendegraft drafts based on 1 NBA talent with the later picks – and Sy’s is the ability to get to the hoop. Also, can be a very good defender.

Listed at 6-7, so your probably correct, closer to 6-5. Looks long however

Melvin

June 18th, 2012
10:31 am

Looks like the league is going to do everything they can to get Lebron his title this year. The officiating has been unfair towards OKC in my opinion.

glw

June 18th, 2012
10:55 am

@ Northcyde

I doubt the Hawks go with a youth movement, while the GM bring in a lot of the players, its ultimately the coach who decides who makes the team and who doesnt. And just like last year, when the Hawks chose to go with Stackhouse. His spot could have just as easily gone to Pape Sy, who could have developed and had time to learn the system. Its obvious he was raw. I think this philosophy has just as much to do with whats wrong with the Hawks as the other factors which make them who they are. Drew is trying to save his job and he would rather trust an old washed up vet more than a guy with potential I wouldnt expect anything different this year. I think they will limit the amount of vet minimum guys they bring in, but I expect at least 3 of those type guys to bring in. At best, the Hawks would have the 1st round pick, and a 2nd younger player, either a 2nd round pick or Pape Sy makes it as the 13th guy.

Ken Strickland

June 18th, 2012
10:56 am

STEVEW-It looks like we’re repeating the same ill advised mistake of trying to make a PG out of Sy that we made when we tried to make one out of his fellow Frenchman and former Hawks draft pick Boris Diaw. If the trade I suggested with the Lakers didn’t work out, I’d look to the Bulls.

I’d see if they would be willing to trade LDeng and CBrewer, K Korver, or RHamilton, for JJohnson. With the question mark hanging over them and the future health of DRose, they could certainly use a SG with JJs scoring and playmaking skills.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 18th, 2012
11:11 am

What LeBron did is not a jump stop or a pro hop, but is in fact a Crab Dribble.

JayD

June 18th, 2012
11:12 am

SIZE also goes with you to the next level. The Hawks need to get bigger!

KevinM

June 18th, 2012
11:20 am

So heading into this season, we have LD on a one year deal. We aren’t going to be adding any long term contracts, not that we have room. The question should be how many young guys can we expect to have on this roster?
I think maybe 2 at most, probably just one if we can nail the draft picks. We will have a summer league that more than likely won’t have a guy making this roster.
I hear Brian Butch and Pape Sy, but please, Pape Sy as a SG? You’re going to put a non-shooting ‘athlete’ out there? This is purely a LD pet rescue mission. He must see his skill set in Pape Sy.

I don’t have a lot of understanding how we keep changing to bottom of the roster to keep making the top of the roster try to look so good?

Let’s update the top of the roster and let these spare parts work themselves out. Its gonna be a group of vets working at the minimum and yet when they don’t produce, we bang on them like they are the key to the ECF.

And 1 man’s vote: Kirk Hinrich in a Hawks uniform doesn’t improve this team.

Astro Joe

June 18th, 2012
11:50 am

Kevin, Hinrich won’t return… he get get better than the vet’s minimum from another team (likely closer to $3M). And you’re right, improving the talent at the bottom won’t get us into the conference finals… a better bench and a healthy starting 5 will get us into a competitive 2nd round where we will lose to one of the two best teams int he conference.

I suspect that we will have 3 young players… the 1st round pick and a combo of NBDL players and the 2nd round pick (and that does not include Ivan).

BIG DOG

June 18th, 2012
12:10 pm

Northcyde – In all your starting lineup i see Marvin starting, SMH

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

BIG DOG

June 18th, 2012
12:12 pm

LD is not starting Marvin in 2012 if so has 2 be the dumbest head coach in NBA.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

cdog

June 18th, 2012
12:13 pm

thats why pendergraft should be the GM instead of rick sund. anything would be better than sund.

BIG DOG

June 18th, 2012
12:17 pm

Northcyde – If there is no changes in 2012 here is your starting linup.

Teague, Joe, Josh, Horford, Zaza

Pargo, Gerald Green, Marvin, Ivan, Fab Melo

Willie Green, Tmac, Collins.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

cp

June 18th, 2012
12:21 pm

As mentioned by glw, LD probably prefers vets since he is on a one year contract. Dude is coaching for another contract so I’m sure he feels more comfortable with a season vet rather than a young guy even if that vet is over the hill. The Hawks have to do a better job at developing talent and managing assets but its hard to do when a coach has no type of job security. I think our 2 draft picks and maybe one guy from the summe league makes the team and the rest will be vet min guys like a Pargo or Willie Green. I just hope we dont see Twin on this roster next year. I cant take another year of that dude .

I really wish the draft was on TNT. Stuart Scott almost makes the draft unwatchable. He was absolutely terrible last year. It was bad enough the Hawks didnt pick until almost the end of the second round but listening to him made it worse. They either have to have somebody replace Scott or just give it back to TNT.

Astro Joe

June 18th, 2012
1:03 pm

cp, I agree with all of your points.

The other possibility are D-League players with a fair amount of experience. Guys who have “toiled” in the D League for 3+ years in theory should be more ready to contribute to an NBA roster than a 2nd rounder fresh out of college.

O'Brien

June 18th, 2012
1:08 pm

Melvin,

From hoopshype;

Craig Stouffer: Awesome evaluation sample for Andre Drummond workout with #Wizards: he goes 1-for-4 at the line, workout over. #top3pickright? (Twitter)

“The season is over. I’m on to the next chapter,” Drummond said. “I feel that I had on okay year. Things I could’ve done better: Score more. Play less passive. Grab more rebounds and block a few more shots. I felt I was ready to make the move [to the NBA] and that’s what I did.” Washington Post.

Not sure what to expect from him…

Najeh,

Of course, they could always move down and collect a few million dollars extra to pay the electric bills like they did in 2010..

The score board is not going to fix itself.

O'Brien

June 18th, 2012
1:10 pm

The Hawks have been busy. From business news;

The Atlanta Hawks promoted Ailey Penningroth to chief marketing officer and senior vice president.

The team also promoted Phil Ebinger and Scott Wilkinson to executive vice president. .

I hope the new CMO does a better job than the last guy, because Hawks are not very good at marketing (imo).

pointguardslim

June 18th, 2012
1:37 pm

2012 – 13 roster

PG: Teague – [PG] – Pargo

G: Johnson – Alex Young – Al Thornton

F: Smith – Marvin Williams – Al Thornton*

PF: Horford – Ivan Johnson –

C: Zaza – Fab Melo/Festus Ezeli – Dampier
——–
PG – $2,433,076 – [$$$$]* – $1,352,181
SG – $19,752,645 – $473,604* – $402,419*
SF – $13,200,000 – $8,287,500 – *
PF – $12,000,000 – $1,352,181*
C – $5,248,750 – $1,167,000* – $1,223,166*

60,921,971 = Signed players – Teague, Johnson, Smith, Horford, Pachulia + Williams
5,970,551 = Pargo, Young, Thornton, Johnson, Melo/Ezeli, Dampier
2nd team point guard = ?

66,892,522 w/o the Second string PG to move Pargo to 3rd reserve PG.

If you entice (key word being entice) a vet for $4M PG to come to ATL such as Kidd or Miller then that’s still less than the $73,512,021 listed here.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm

1: Teague – Johnson – Smith – Horford – Pachulia

2: [Andre Miller/Hinrich] – Alex Young – Al Thornton – Ivan Johnson – Melo/Ezeli

3: Pargo; Dampier

PGs that might, might, might well come to ATL for cash and years rather than the Heat or wherever else: Miller, Kidd.
Devin Harris- Earl Watson – Earl Watson – Earl Watson – Earl Watson – C.J. Watson(Bulls) – Shaun Livingston

Hinrich is a realistic backpocket option i guess. Taking CJ watson from the Bulls would be nice and he should stay at $3.2 mil. Shaun Livingston is available and could be nice off the bench.

Alternatively the Hawks could invest in a Sundiata Gaines or some lesser talent.
But either way that should be around $3 mil less than what they shelled out in 2011-2012/

pointguardslim

June 18th, 2012
1:41 pm

Big Dog do not bring back Tracy. He’s deteriorating and fast. Is there any consistent advantage in a guy who can’t shoot can’t elevate and gets injured at crucial moments.

Too much drama and unreliability.

Gerald Green is likely going back to Brooklyn. And Earl Watson, would bring toughness while CJ Watson would be nice to sabotage the Bulls who are in disarray. Watson might leave for $3.5 mil and 3 years and an option. Which is slightly more than he makes now

cp

June 18th, 2012
1:42 pm

@Astro. Im thinking we will have a few d league guys like you just described on the summer league team. This is a great chance for them because the Hawks have so many roster spots but so little money. Those guys are going to do whatever it takes to show they belong on the team.

Melvin

June 18th, 2012
1:50 pm

OB,

The more I think about it, I think I would draft the best wing player at #5 and big at #23. If Josh walks, then you have money to sign other bigs…

If Cleveland draft SG Bradley Beal from Flordia, maybe they would still be interested in Marvin. I would trade Marvin to them for as little as a 2nd round pick. Just to move his salary off the books. Then use the cap space to round out the roster.

Astro Joe

June 18th, 2012
2:10 pm

cp, yep… hopefully those guys will be hungry, kind of like Ivan.

Astro Joe

June 18th, 2012
2:38 pm

I wish we had money for Sonny Weems. He was coming along nicely in the ‘10-11 season and then took the sure money from a Euro team and headed overseas (instead of waiting for CBA resolution). There are probably some other guys who were at the end of the NBA bench who made a similar move and now are trying to return. But Weems is a UFA and is a hard-nosed SG who will likely get more than the vet’s minimum. Bottom line, the Hawks should have a decent talent pool to complete their roster… of course, that won’t change the roster slot 1-6 situation.

vino

June 18th, 2012
2:49 pm

if denver didnt trade up to select ty lawson the pick right before we took Jeff, we probably would have took Lawson and he would have ridden the bench the same way jeff did his first three years….

WOODY DONT PLAY ROOKIES!!!!!!

Najeh Davenpoop

June 18th, 2012
2:50 pm

The fact that we are talking about Pape Sy like he is a key piece to next season says all you need to know about this team as currently constructed.

BIG DOG

June 18th, 2012
2:56 pm

pointguardslim – Thanks bro

BIG DOGS IN THE HOUSE

Rod from College Park

June 18th, 2012
3:00 pm

Pape Sy. SMH

BIG DOG

June 18th, 2012
3:00 pm

pointguardslim – Why Northcyde always have Marvin starting ? is Northcyde and enemy of Hawks or what, who in there right mind would continue 2 starte Marvin after watching him for past 6years do nothing, JUST DAM

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

@atlsportfan4eva

June 18th, 2012
3:02 pm

real Hawks fan, stop buying tickets and sit back and hope the ASG sell this team soon. I am bored with this team and have been for as long as the ASG have been owners. I am no longer giving my money to this organization. Not even to watch the visitng team.

Slimjr

June 18th, 2012
3:42 pm

A guard with no jumpshot [Pape Sy] what a terrible idea?

Slimjr

June 18th, 2012
3:45 pm

doc, how bout those Braves? Crickets………….roll eyes…

Lost 6 of last 7..Headed to Yankee stadium tonight. Yankees on a 9 game winning streak!

Oh the Humanity…..

prison mike

June 18th, 2012
3:51 pm

Yeah I dont’ respect guys that crab dribble. I don’t even tolerate it on the playgrounds.

Rod from College Park

June 18th, 2012
3:55 pm

BIG DOG,

“who in there right mind would continue 2 starte Marvin after watching him for past 6years do nothing, JUST DAM”

The key words in your sentence are right mind. Northcyde in a fantasy basketball player. He does not look at the games. Everything he does is based on fantasy. So actually he is not in his right mind.

Glenn

June 18th, 2012
3:59 pm

That Pape Si was a second round pick . The fact that he is part of the team is amazing . I’m not seeing Fab Melo being there when the Hawks draft . A team will roll the dice on him due to size alone between 15-20 .

As far as the Laker trade they will want ZaZa & Josh for Gasol . Thats kinda steep imo . Gasol is a 4 for the most part as well . Not the 5 we need to team up with Horford .

glw

June 18th, 2012
4:22 pm

@BIG DOG

Not to speak for northcyde, Im not sure he is necessarily saying Marvin is the starter, but as the team is currently constructed, he probably is the starter more or less by default. Of course that could change with the drafting of a guy like Jeffrey Taylor or a free agent signing. As bad as Marvin is at times,currently, he is probably our no.1 option at small forward. But I will agree with you thing you said…(DAMN!!!!)

glw

June 18th, 2012
4:28 pm

As bad as the Hawks financial situation is with the Joe Johnson contract, Boozer is even more of a handicap to the Bulls. With Rose max deal kicking in this year, they will be in luxury tax range. I think someone will overpay for Asik knowing Bulls probably wont match it. Short of that, they might have to dump Korver and or Russell. There is even talk of them trading Deng. I thnk the bulls will take a big drop off next year.

Just Joe

June 18th, 2012
4:30 pm

Going to have to get creative to move Marvin.

Marvin, #43, and next year’s 1st rd pick to Portland for Jamal Crawford, #40 & #41.

Jamal extended his player option decision until the day after the draft. If there’s a trade available, he’ll opt in to his $5M contract for next year just before Portland trades him. This also establishes bird rights for Jamal on his next contract. Portland takes on Marvin & drops from pick 41 to pick 43, with the incentive of trading their 40th pick in this year’s draft for our 1st rd pick in next year’s draft.

Hawks save $3M and have the ability with picks 40 & 41 to package them and trade back in to the late 1st round. It would be nice for the Hawks to target seniors Jeff Taylor & Andrew Nicholson. Draftexpress currently has those players going 24th & 27th. I’m not so optomistic about them being available then, but a run on big men like Ezeli & Melo could drop them until later in the first round.

glw

June 18th, 2012
4:48 pm

@Just Joe,

Nice trade!!!! they can even keep both their 2nd rd draft picks if they would just take Marvin.

Buddy Grizzard

June 18th, 2012
4:51 pm

“You’re going to put a non-shooting ‘athlete’ out there?” – KevinM

Haha and people on this blog want to draft Wroten. If the Hawks draft Wroten and Sy makes the team, they can both fight over the “combo guard who can’t play either position” minutes.

“And 1 man’s vote: Kirk Hinrich in a Hawks uniform doesn’t improve this team.”

Strongly disagree. With KH gone, the biggest dilemma facing the Hawks is replacing his perimeter D. Remember, in the first game against Chicago last year, Teague was so pathetic trying to guard drose that LD put Joe on drose for much of the game. Any time KH was on the bench against BOS it was a layup drill for Rondo with Pargo or Teague guarding him.

This is a huge hole in the roster that must be filled or you’re going to find out just how valuable KH was to this team.

glw

June 18th, 2012
5:07 pm

@Buddy Grizzard
I agree with you about Hinrich, he was underrated in what he did for the team. He wasnt worth what he was getting paid, but he made a solid contribution. I dont particularly care to draft Wroten, and Sy wouldnt be a rotational player, more like a situational player at best like Mario West was. Hinrich skill set would have to be replaced. I think Delonte West would be a cheaper alternative than Kirk.

UGA

June 18th, 2012
5:08 pm

Here is how the roster will fill out:

Guards: Pargo, Hinrich/Randy Foye, Tony Wroten
Wings: Josh Howard, David Lighty/Al Thorton/Damion James
Centers: Ryan Hollins/Collins, Butch

Astro Joe

June 18th, 2012
5:12 pm

When you see that Wroten gets to make the last impression on the coaching staff (coupled with Najeh’s previous “investigation” into Sund’s presence at the Huskies games), it kind of makes you believe that pick #23 is his to lose.

http://www.nba.com/hawks/2012-draft-prospect-bios

UGA

June 18th, 2012
5:15 pm

I like the Delonte West idea and maybe even Matt Barnes, but we tend to stay away from those with a troubled past/controversial.

UGA

June 18th, 2012
5:16 pm

I have never seen Wroten play. Know he can’t shoot but can get to the rim, which we need. Rondo use to not be able to shoot either……….

TMACfan

June 18th, 2012
5:39 pm

Hawks draft Wroten, we will end up with a star in 2 years.

TMACfan

June 18th, 2012
5:43 pm

The Hawks need to dump Mrs. Marvina Williams.

End of the story.

cp

June 18th, 2012
6:04 pm

Not being able to shoot is just one of many issues Wroten has. He cant go right, cant finish with his right, cant shoot free throws, and is a terrible decision maker. He gets to the rim and gets a lot of free throws he just cant knock them down when he gets there. The Hawks threw away a few games last season because of their inability to knock down free throws. If the Hawks could get Wroten in the second I would be fine with that but I wouldnt want him in the first. If Cleveland still wants Marvin just ask for their two second rounders. The Hawks could probably get Wroten early in the second, a big, and probably Cunningham. I think they will be taking a wing player at 23. I was watching Q Millers workoout video and he looks a lot better than he did at Baylor. He looks like he has changed his release on his shot too as it looks much higher. I still say dude is going to be a steal in the late 20’s. I see a Avery Bradley type situation. A guy who was highly ranked coming out of high school but didnt blow anyone away with his freshman year but ended up being great value late in the draft.

hawksfancents95

June 18th, 2012
6:18 pm

this years draft is the worst i can think of in recent memory. anthony davis will be a nba star for years, anthony davis=an intelligent javale mcgee. other than him i see maybe only a handful of guys that will be solid players(terrence jones,kidd-gilchrist,barnes,sullinger,zeller,rivers) we have nothing that can help us at #23. fab melo just because he would take the place of jason collins. i honestly wouldnt mind trading this pick to a team for that teams 1st rounder next year if a team wanted to move in. im more excited about our #43 pick, we should try for Kostas Papanikolaou. he lead the Olympiacos to a euroleague championship over andrei kirilenko and nene kristics russian team. my other possibilies that i think could come in and reliev some minutes would be tyshaun taylor from KU, kim english from MIZZ or darius miller from UK, all could make the team and contribute 5-15 mins a game. id like the pick of Kostas Papanikolaou because i think he could be a gem that is hiding in the second round and could potentially be a starter later in the season bringing marvin off the bench.

donte080

June 18th, 2012
6:20 pm

re: Fab Melo…

The dude couldn’t find his game in college, and yet so many here think he will find it in the NBA? Please name one player who stunk as much as Melo did in college and ended up being special in the NBA?

donte080

June 18th, 2012
6:27 pm

re: Woody don’t play rookies…

Not true. Josh Smith started 59 games as a rookie…Al Horford 77 games…Josh Childress played > 30 MPG as a rookie….

Teague didn’t play as a rookie because he wasn’t NBA ready out of college…physically or mentally.

Rufus1

June 18th, 2012
6:37 pm

The Bio you should read is…

Jared Cunningham (Oregon State, G, 6-4, 194)

•Concluded his collegiate career as the school’s 13th all-time in total points (1,271), second in steals (21(, thied in FTs made (427) and fifth in FTs attempted (566) … Cunningham owns 11 Oregon State records … A two-time Pac-12 All-Defensive Team member, he also took home All-Pac-12 honors as a sophomore (second team) and junior (first team) … he started in all 36 games for the Beavers as a junior, recording 17.9 ppg, 3.8 rpg and 2.8 apg (.450 FG%, .338 3FG%, .737 FT%) … Cunningham had a career-high 37 points last season against Texas … his quick hands led the conference in steals in back-to-back seasons, and he tied Gary Payton and current Hawks’ assistant coach Lester Conner for the second most steals in one season with 91 … his hometown is Oakland, CA … CAREER TOTALS – 13.0 points, 3.0 rebounds, 1.96 assists and 2.2 steals (.455 FG%, .344 3FG%, .754 FT%).

But… I think #23 is going to be Royce White if he is there. He doesn’t have a great jump shot, so he will spend his time on the block(imagine the Hawks with a player , who plays in the post).. If you doubt his skill.. Watch what he did to Terrance Jones/ Anthony Davis is the tournament. 6′8, 260lbs(of muscle), low post moves and can attack off the dribble(at the SF)… I want him

Cunningham in the 2nd round and Lavoy Allen in free agency… Allen will cost about $2-4 mill a season( an athletic center at 4 mill a season)

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20120618_Sixers__Williams_wants_to_stay_but_willl_test_market.html

TMACfan

June 18th, 2012
7:28 pm

A lot of people on this blog want another Power Forward. Do we really need another one of those??

KevinM

June 18th, 2012
7:54 pm

“Najeh Davenpoop

June 18th, 2012
2:50 pm
The fact that we are talking about Pape Sy like he is a key piece to next season says all you need to know about this team as currently constructed.”

Truer words have not been spoken on this blog.

Buddy, we can’t afford Kirk….at least to what Kirk thinks he’s worth. If Kirk was so worthy of a roster slot, why couldn’t we beat Boston more than 2 times?

We do as well with Kirk injured than being our starting SG. Kirk accomplishments as a Hawk are on quite a short list.

Sautee

June 18th, 2012
8:14 pm

“We do as well with Kirk injured than being our starting SG. Kirk accomplishments as a Hawk are on quite a short list.”

Maybe this will refresh your memory:

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/05/06/atlanta-hawks-reining-in-rondo/

High-sider

June 18th, 2012
8:24 pm

I see Sy is getting a second look by the Hawks organization. “Si o no” [yes or no], should Pape Sy get a second look? I say “si” [yes]; Sy should get a second look but only at the SF or SG positions. I see Sy as a possible defensive specialist like Tony Allen, Thabo Sefolosha or Damien Wilkins. If there is anyone in the Hawks organization that feels Sy could be a backup point guard for the Hawks, that individual should be dumped at sea for thinking [that] Sy could be a point guard. I’m referring to the Caribbean Sea – not the Caribbean Sy.

@Najeh Davenpoop

Crab dribble? I Sy – I mean I see you got jokes [too].

cp

June 18th, 2012
8:33 pm

They have a couple of videos of guys that worked out

http://www.nba.com/hawks/2012-draft-workout

Melvin

June 18th, 2012
8:47 pm

What a stupid award but most importantly, I can see Lin getting voting into the All-Star game as a starter b/c of his popularity.

“Brian Mahoney: Jeremy Lin wins NBA TV’s “Social Breakout Player of the Year.” Surely a huge boost headed into free agency. #Linsanity”

O'Brien

June 18th, 2012
9:00 pm

Guys,

I dont think Cleveland wants Marvin, unless we give them another desirable asset (like Zaza, or a future first).

O'Brien

June 18th, 2012
9:02 pm

From espn.com;

Ohio State Buckeyes big man Jared Sullinger has been medically red flagged by NBA doctors, multiple league sources told ESPN.com on Monday.

Sullinger, who is projected to be a lottery pick in the 2012 NBA draft, underwent a series of medical tests at the NBA draft combine a week ago. According to sources, the doctors who looked at Sullinger were concerned with Sullinger’s back.

A number of NBA team doctors have reviewed the information from the NBA and have told their front office staff that Sullinger’s back issues could shorten his NBA career and some have advised their teams not to draft him in the first round.

“He had a bulging area that was due to his hamstring and quads being so tight,” Satch Sullinger told ESPN.com senior college basketball writer Andy Katz in a phone call Monday afternoon. “It pulled on his hip flexor and he’s been taking care of it to loosen it. You can call it a red flag if you want. But it’s tight hamstring and tight quads. He’s been to doctors, he’s doing yoga and deep tissue massage. The flexibility is helping take the pressure off the area..

ep

June 18th, 2012
9:03 pm

Pau Gasol returns to his original team for Josh Smith?

Melvin

June 18th, 2012
9:31 pm

If I was the Hawks I would try to sign Brandon Roy and Greg Oden. They should be low cost, low risk and high reward type of guys if they can get/remain healthy.

cp

June 18th, 2012
9:46 pm

Oden says he wont play next season but Roy could be an option if he truly wants to play again. He has to accept a bench role though. I know he really didnt like coming off the bench for Portland although it was was to his benefit because of his knees.

TMACfan

June 18th, 2012
10:22 pm

I would sign Brandon Roy to be the sixth man. Super low risk, super high reward.

O'Brien

June 18th, 2012
10:55 pm

Melvin,

I would stay away from oden. But i would take a chance on roy.

Speaking of taking a chance, AJ was right. Despite many high profile interviews (sloan, brian shaw),bobcats reportedly hire st. Johns assistant HC mike dunlap to be their hc. Yes.that mike dunlap

Melvin

June 18th, 2012
11:10 pm

The Bobcats had a list of head coaching candidates with veteran coaches included and they decided to hire a College assistant coach???? Whew, they may be worst off then the Hawks organization although they have a legendary owner…

Ra'mon

June 19th, 2012
12:13 am

O’B, are you familiar with Sullivan’s game? Would you take a risk on him with the hamstring concerns?

Ra'mon

June 19th, 2012
12:15 am

Sullinger*

Buddy Grizzard

June 19th, 2012
12:21 am

“Hawks draft Wroten, we will end up with a star in 2 years.”

Rondo 2/1 assist-to-turnover ratio in college. Wroten 1/1 assist-to-turnover ratio in college. Yep, Wroten has star written all over him. Can’t shoot or dribble.

Buddy Grizzard

June 19th, 2012
12:24 am

Why do we need another guy who can’t dribble? We already have Pargo.

Buddy Grizzard

June 19th, 2012
12:26 am

“Are you familiar with Sullivan’s game? Would you take a risk on him with the hamstring concerns?”

He looked like the most out-of-shape player at the combine. Would take a risk on him in the second round.

Ra'mon

June 19th, 2012
12:26 am

Wroten is Sebastian Telfair. More hyped because of his playing style than what he’s really worth. He would do well under Doc Rivers or Pop. But under the Hawks? No way. PG in the NBA is the hardest position to learn. So if you’re drafting that far down in the draft, you either go for a wing player or a big, but not a point guard.

Grandad

June 19th, 2012
1:01 am

High-Sider

I think what Najeh is/was referring to is what I would call a:
” Power dribble ”

Usually referenced when teaching post moves.

Post player suares up to basket;
and simultaneously pounds the ball to the floor with both hands
while hopping off two feet and landing on two feet.
Properly used, the post player should be as low in stance as possible
as he initiates the move.
Also using two hand plus as low as possible keeps the defender from
digging the ball away.
*(many times Bigs are vulnerable due to dribbling to high)
As I noted last eve, the reaso for leaving off two feet allows you to
land because the ball is between dribbles.
Plus landing on two feet allows the post player the opportunity
to pivot after landing.

I`ve always referred to this as a Power dribble.

I think and I hope this is the same as Najeh was referring.
Evidently and or perhaps;
I did not see the move that is being debated.
However, I have heard the term ” crab dribble ” before.

Buddy Grizzard

June 19th, 2012
1:08 am

“Cunningham in the 2nd round and Lavoy Allen in free agency… Allen will cost about $2-4 mill a season( an athletic center at 4 mill a season).” – Rufus1

That’s really interesting. I remember reading about how much better the 76ers were in the playoffs with Allen on the floor. PHI is in major trouble trying to resign all their players. Iguodala shooting his mouth off and telling the media that Lou Williams “can’t guard anybody” may result in him signing with another team. He has already opted out of the last year of his contract to become a UFA.

Meanwhile they also need to resign Spencer Hawes who is a solid starting NBA center when healthy. I think PHI and CHI are going to take a major step back next season, CHI because of Rose’s recovery, PHI because they won’t be able to bring back all the players that got them as far as they went last year. The Hawks could benefit from this in the playoffs.

“Buddy, we can’t afford Kirk….at least to what Kirk thinks he’s worth. If Kirk was so worthy of a roster slot, why couldn’t we beat Boston more than 2 times?” – KevinM

It’s not what Kirk thinks he’s worth, it’s what other NBA teams think he’s worth that will make it hard for the Hawks to resign him. He may end up being the starting point guard for CHI next year. As for why we didn’t win more than 3 playoff games this year, I’ve talked at length about how the Hawks got destroyed in the 4th quarter of Game 3 while Kirk sat on the bench and watched JANNERO F’ING PARGO get WORKED OVER by Rondo. Do you think Pargo upped his value around the league with his playoff performance? No, he proved why he’s a minimum salary player. In fact, like Josh Powell last year, if the Hawks don’t offer Pargo a contract no other team will. The only reason he has a job in the NBA is because of his friendship with Joe Johnson. Otherwise, he’d be playing with Powell in the Puerto Rican league.

Pargo can’t pass, is one of the worst defenders in the NBA and his handle is so pathetic he can barely bring the ball up against playoff defense. And yet this is the guy Drew played in the 4th quarter of Game 3 while Kirk sat on the bench. Kirk isn’t going to give the Hawks a discount so he can come back and sit on the bench and watch Pargo blow more playoff games. He doesn’t have to. Kirk has value around the league. Pargo has none.

Buddy Grizzard

June 19th, 2012
1:17 am

“So if you’re drafting that far down in the draft, you either go for a wing player or a big, but not a point guard.”

We got our starting point guard at the bottom of the first round a few years ago. The difference between Teague and Wroten or Pargo and Wroten is that NBA-caliber players do not turn the ball over at the rate that Wroten does. Wroten is capable of making highlight passes like Rondo, but will he start ahead of Teague? No… Teague will start because he takes care of the ball. If the Hawks draft Wroten they will be hoping in 2-3 years he will have developed his handle enough to be Jannero Pargo.

Buddy Grizzard

June 19th, 2012
1:18 am

Grrr… meant to say “the difference between Teague and Wroten or RONDO and Wroten…”

cp

June 19th, 2012
1:24 am

Hollinger has his annual draft rater up and it apparently reads my mind because I’ve been locked on MKG for a while and have fallen in love with Waiters’ game. I’ve also thought Quincy Miller is a huge sleeper as well.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft201 … raft-rater

3. High-rated wings usually deliver

As I noted with Leonard a year ago, wing players — especially bigger ones — with strong Draft Rater marks virtually never fail. Of the eight players to rate above 13 in the past decade, the worst among them was Josh Childress. Five of the players have played in an All-Star Game, and Rudy Gay may play in an All-Star Game soon. The seventh player is Leonard.

This year, we have two names to add to that list: Dion Waiters and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Kidd-Gilchrist is probably the safest pick on the board — a big wing who plays defense, has strong stats and comes with no character questions. From a risk-aversion perspective alone he should be a top-five pick; I have him third on my board after Robinson. (See below for how I would rank the prospects, regardless of their Draft Rater numbers.)

I have Waiters fourth for similar reasons. His size, 6-foot-4, is more of a concern, but whatever team made him a promise did a wise thing. Waiters projects as the best small wing since Dwyane Wade, and he’d be a steal if somebody got him in the Nos. 8-10 range currently being discussed.

The other wing everybody is sleeping on is Quincy Miller of Baylor, who put up a strong mark despite coming off an ACL injury. He has more questions marks because of the knee and his bony build, but he is long and can score. The stories of him slipping have me baffled, because he rates as a top-10 pick.

Two other wings who will be drafted highly don’t rate as strongly: Beal and Harrison Barnes. Most players in their range turn out to be solid, but this part of the pool doesn’t produce many stars. I’d be more comfortable taking these two in the later part of the lottery.

cp

June 19th, 2012
1:43 am

Here is Hollingers ranking of guys in the draft this year for those who care to check it out

That’s right: It’s Draft Rater time. I’ve developed a tool that analyzes college stats to predict NBA performance and have refined it over the past several years. It’s something we can use to help identify draft steals and busts.

To review, last season was a pretty good one for the Rater. The 2011 pick with the top chance of success (Kyrie Irving) won Rookie of the Year, three other players it rated highly (Kawhi Leonard, Jon Leuer and Nikola Vucevic) provided great value for their draft position, and long-time favorite Daniel Green emerged as a starter on the West’s best regular-season team……

….As I noted with Leonard a year ago, wing players — especially bigger ones — with strong Draft Rater marks virtually never fail. Of the eight players to rate above 13 in the past decade, the worst among them was Josh Childress. Five of the players have played in an All-Star Game, and Rudy Gay may play in an All-Star Game soon. The seventh player is Leonard.

This year, we have two names to add to that list: Dion Waiters and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Kidd-Gilchrist is probably the safest pick on the board — a big wing who plays defense, has strong stats and comes with no character questions. From a risk-aversion perspective alone he should be a top-five pick; I have him third on my board after Robinson. (See below for how I would rank the prospects, regardless of their Draft Rater numbers.)

I have Waiters fourth for similar reasons. His size, 6-foot-4, is more of a concern, but whatever team made him a promise did a wise thing. Waiters projects as the best small wing since Dwyane Wade, and he’d be a steal if somebody got him in the Nos. 8-10 range currently being discussed.

Potential perimeter busts
One player that Draft Rater isn’t crazy about is Damian Lillard of Weber State, who compiled strong numbers but did so against a weak schedule and is much older than most of the prospects at his position. He not only failed to outrank the top point guards above but also rates behind the less-heralded Tyshawn Taylor of Kansas. No. 6 clearly seems a stretch for Lillard, who looks more like a mid-to-late first-rounder in this analysis.

On the wings, a few potential first-rounders also fare poorly. Moe Harkless of St. John’s had one of the worst ratings of any first-round prospect. While the error rate on one-and-done players has been higher, the difference between Harkless and the other lottery candidates is well outside the standard error of the Rater.

In addition to Harkless, first-round prospects John Jenkins and Jeffery Taylor of Vanderbilt fared poorly. Another first-round prospect from overseas, Evan Fournier of France, didn’t play in the Euroleague this year and thus has no projection. Subjectively, I’m not sold on him — he’s basically a slashing scorer who isn’t athletic enough to score that way in the NBA — but he at least has the benefit of being only 19.

One player gathering momentum is Kostas Papanikolaou of Greece, who shapes up as a solid second-round stash pick. Two other wing prospects — Austin Rivers and Terrence Ross — shape up about where we’d expect as mid-to-late first rounders, but after those two, the pool thins out quickly.

A final sleeper to watch is Maryland point guard Terrell Stoglin, another guy who would make a great second-rounder.

Perimeter Players: The Best
Name College/Country Rating
Dion Waiters Syracuse 14.12
Kendall Marshall North Carolina 13.84
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Kentucky 13.58
Marquis Teague Kentucky 13.18
Quincy Miller Baylor 12.94
Tony Wroten Washington 12.21
Bradley Beal Florida 11.65
Kostas Sloukas Greece 11.51
Harrison Barnes North Carolina 11.11
Will Barton Memphis 10.90
Doron Lamb Kentucky 10.65
Jeremy Lamb Connecticut 10.50

Perimeter Players: The Rest
Name College/Country Rating
Tyshawn Taylor Kansas 10.19
Austin Rivers Duke 9.85
Terrell Stoglin Maryland 9.82
Damian Lillard Weber State 9.75
Kostas Papanikolaou Greece 9.26
Terrence Ross Washington 9.12
Elias Harris Gonzaga 8.64
William Buford Ohio State 8.58
J’Covan Brown Texas 8.49
Jordan Taylor Wisconsin 8.19
Reggie Hamilton Oakland 8.18
Maalik Wayns Villanova 8.02
Hollis Thompson Georgetown 8.01
Tony Mitchell Alabama 7.91
Jae Crowder Marquette 7.90
Jared Cunningham Oregon State 7.76
John Jenkins Vanderbilt 7.76
Khris Middleton Texas A&M 7.68
Scott Machado Iona 7.57
Tornike Shengelia Republic of Georgia 7.33
Moe Harkless St. John’s 7.15
Tu Holloway Xavier 7.14
Orlando Johnson UC Santa Barbara 7.11
Darius Miller Kentucky 6.65
Jeffery Taylor Vanderbilt 6.59

7. Making my board
Knowing everything we know, here is how my board looks heading into draft day. This is taking into account everything from the Draft Rater as well as what we know about the players’ red flags, defensive pluses and minuses and one or two subjective calls:

1. Anthony Davis
2. Thomas Robinson
3. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
4. Dion Waiters
5. Andre Drummond

6. Quincy Miller
7. Jared Sullinger
8. Terrence Jones
9. John Henson
10. Royce White

11. Bradley Beal
12. Harrison Barnes
13. Tony Wroten
14. Kendall Marshall
15. Marquis Teague

16. Draymond Green
17. Jeremy Lamb
18. Damian Lillard
19. Austin Rivers
20. Doron Lamb

21. Furkan Aldemir
22. Will Barton
23. Tyler Zeller
24. Evan Fournier
25. Tyshawn Taylor

26. Meyers Leonard
27. Terrence Ross
28. Perry Jones
29. Festus Ezeli
30. Fab Melo

31. Kostas Sloukas
32. Henry Sims
33. Terrell Stoglin
34. Kostas Papanikolaou
35. Moe Harkless

36. Leon Radosevic
37. JaMychal Green
38. Andrew Nicholson
39. Drew Gordon
40. Garrett Stutz

41. Robert Sacre
42. Arnett Moultrie
43. Elias Harris
44. William Buford
45. Jae Crowder

46. Jared Cunningham
47. Jordan Taylor
48. John Jenkins
49. Orlando Johnson
50. Jeffrey Taylor

51. Quincy Acy
52. Maalik Wayns
53. Tornike Shengelia
54. Scott Machado
55. Mike Scott

56. J’Covan Brown
57. Reggie Hamilton
58. Khris Middleton
59. Tony Mitchell
60. Miles Plumlee

Buddy Grizzard

June 19th, 2012
2:04 am

PS I’m on board with going after Brandon Roy.

Buddy Grizzard

June 19th, 2012
2:18 am

Wonder what all the Jeff Taylor fans have to say about that, cp. Also, unbelievable how high Hollinger has Wroten ranked… ahead of Marshall, Teague, Lillard and Rivers.

Just Joe

June 19th, 2012
6:40 am

So in Hollinger’s mind, and based on who’s expected to be there, our top 5 draft board should be Quincy Miller, Royce White, Tony Wroten, Marquis Teague, and Draymond Green. Those players fit positions of need (Backup PG and SF). All of them except Teague are scheduled to workout for the Hawks.

northcyde

June 19th, 2012
6:56 am

Hollinger had Kenneth Faried ranked #29 on his Draft Rater last year. Isaiah Thomas ( Sacramento’s PG ) didn’t even rank in his top 40. Nor did Marshon Brooks ( who went toe to toe vs Joe Johnson in the 3 meetings vs the Hawks )

As far as Jeff Taylor goes, he’s at best going to be a Shane Battier type of player. There are very few stars in this draft. Taylor is simply an elite level athlete who can defend on the perimeter and make an open jumper. That’s actually a need on this team.

northcyde

June 19th, 2012
7:03 am

Rod from College Park

June 18th, 2012
3:55 pm

BIG DOG,

“who in there right mind would continue 2 starte Marvin after watching him for past 6years do nothing, JUST DAM”

The key words in your sentence are right mind. Northcyde in a fantasy basketball player. He does not look at the games. Everything he does is based on fantasy. So actually he is not in his right mind.

*************************

. . . . said the FANBOY of a player that only provides fantasy type stats . . once every 4 games.

Haha @ the way this dude always has my name in his mouth. Ima buy him a Jamal Crawford blow up doll for Christmas.

northcyde

June 19th, 2012
7:11 am

BIG DOG

June 18th, 2012
3:00 pm

pointguardslim – Why Northcyde always have Marvin starting ? is Northcyde and enemy of Hawks or what, who in there right mind would continue 2 starte Marvin after watching him for past 6years do nothing, JUST DAM

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

***********************

It is what it is Big Dog. As glw eloquently stated, Marvin is the starter by default. And even if he doesn’t start, that dude is probably playing 25 – 30 minutes a game, if this team stays “as is”, so he may as well start.

I’m not a fan at all of starting Josh Smith at SF, because it will weaken us both offensively and defensively. You keep Smith around the rim on both ends of the floor, not out on the perimeter.

KevinM

June 19th, 2012
7:41 am

If its up to LD, we’re going with an older college guy. How much input does LD have? Well, he somehow convinced everyone that Sy was a good prospect to guarantee money to.

And Buddy, I didn’t say that Kirk was horrible, because he wasn’t. But does he really make us better? If so, why is he always played so limited? I just don’t think he and Teague are a strong backcourt. I would leave Joe and Teague there, and hire me a shooter that can put points on the board. Kirk isn’t a scorer, at all.

Kirk will be fortunate to get Tony Allen money, which is 2 years/6M. The ASG can’t afford Kirk because they have Marvin and Joe taking in any excess salary there might be. Tell Marvin to cut his pay enough to bring back Kirk and I am fine with it.

An interesting tabulation put together by an NBA numbers nerd David Berri who suggests that here is a Top 10 of most overpaid in the NBA:

Berri’s Top 10:

10. Tyrus Thomas, Charlotte Bobcats (overpaid by $12,459,225)
9. Deron Williams, Brooklyn Nets (overpaid by $12,784,867)
8. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks (overpaid by $12,851,295)
7. Corey Maggette, Charlotte Bobcats (overpaid by $12,862,248)
6. Mehmet Okur, Brooklyn Nets (overpaid by $12,988,657)
5. Chris Kaman, New Orleans Hornets (overpaid by $14,613,480)
4. Amar’e Stoudemire, New York Knicks (overpaid by $14,918,309 )
3. Antawn Jamison, Cleveland Cavaliers (overpaid by $17,402,350)
2. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers (overpaid by $19,693,258)
1. Rashard Lewis, Washington Wizards (overpaid by $21,167,231)

I was shocked not to see Joe in that list….he has to be Top 15 then.
Marvin has to be up the list as well.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/06/17/report-bryant-nowitzki-among-nbas-most-overpaid/

KevinM

June 19th, 2012
7:48 am

Add one guy to my draft wish list at 23 if Doron Lamb isn’t there: Wil Barton. This guy was very highly rated going into college, and he shows good rebounding numbers. I think he can play the 2 or 3 and that might be beneficial here being asked to spell Joe for a few minutes.
If you want the combo guard, go Doron Lamb.
If you want the combo SG/SF, go Wil Barton.

I think both will be contributors next season even if it is in small doses.

Would anyone be surprised to see Jared Sullinger there at 23? He reminds me of DeJuan Blair (knees) and all the concerns with his frame. Blair went 2nd round.

KevinM

June 19th, 2012
7:51 am

“I’m not a fan at all of starting Josh Smith at SF, because it will weaken us both offensively and defensively. You keep Smith around the rim on both ends of the floor, not out on the perimeter.”

northcyde, why can’t the frickin’ coaching staff and the GM see that? Is it really that difficult to grasp where Josh is needed most? If he continues his jump shooting, he won’t help much against Miami. They have a couple of guys there who can neutralize anything he does.
Because shouldn’t the goal be to improve against Miami of all teams?

What’s the worse kind of team Miami has to play against?

O'Brien

June 19th, 2012
8:02 am

Ra’mon,

If Sullinger falls to 23, I would seriously consider taking a chance on him (depending on his physical of course).

Melvin,

The Dunlap hire reminds me of the Lon Kruger hire.

Fans on the Charlotte radio station are killing the move, especially after it was alleged that the reason Brian Shaw wasn’t hired was because he wanted too much money, and MJ refused to pay a first year HC what Shaw wanted.

O'Brien

June 19th, 2012
8:06 am

From Mark Bradley,

Here you’re saying, “The Hawks aren’t as good as the teams playing for the NBA title — this is news?” Well, no. But I’m guessing we’ll be hearing very soon that the Hawks have decided to give it one more go with their Core Four, and I can’t see staying that course having much upside. As is, the Hawks aren’t quite talented enough or committed enough to matter.

But the lasting impression of the Hawks — under both Woodson and Drew — is of a team that never has fully believed it’s cut from championship cloth. It knows it has no LeBron, no Durant, no Dwyane Wade, no Westbrook. The Core Four, together since 2007, knows full well that it’s capable of going so far but no further, and it also knows that its management pales alongside Miami’s or OKC’s or San Antonio’s or Boston’s or Chicago’s or the Lakers’ or …OKC, you get the point. You get the point better than I do. Because there are some nights — like March 3, when the Hawks beat the Thunder without Horford and Joe Johnson — when I think, “You know, if this team played like that every night …”

But that’s the thing: This team doesn’t play like that every night, and as constituted it never will. And I can’t really see this front office, with Sund or without, making the bold moves needed to step up in class. I see only more of the Core, of which we’ve already seen too much..

http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2012/06/18/watch-the-nba-finals-youll-see-why-the-hawks-arent-there/

O'Brien

June 19th, 2012
8:16 am

High-sider, Rod,

If you had a choice of Jamal, Jason Terry, and Lou Williams, who would you take?

Ray

June 19th, 2012
8:35 am

@ O’Brien

Jason Terry most likely

Veteran has a championship ring can knock down a 3pt shot when needed.

That is something we have been missing a championship vet on the team. Especially one that has played in championships is what I mean.

I know the question wasn’t for me, but might as well answer.

Buddy Grizzard

June 19th, 2012
8:39 am

“But does he really make us better?”

That’s the key question the Hawks face this offseason. Kirk is not coming back. Will we miss his defense?

Also, that list is kinda stupid. No Hawks as you mention and Dirk and Kobe? These guys have won championships as the #1 guy on their team. That’s priceless.

Slimjr

June 19th, 2012
8:41 am

Hollinger has Andrew Nicholson falling all the way to the 2nd rd as the 38th pick? Huh?

Can you believe that Grandad?

Slimjr

June 19th, 2012
8:44 am

Check that: That’s cp’s draft board listing Andrew as the 38th pick….My bad…

Mookie

June 19th, 2012
10:43 am

There is no way in hell, that the Hawks should trade Josh Smith for Pau Gasoft. Do you guys know how much money Pau is scheduled to make next season? That’s not a good trade for the Hawks. Josh is in his prime, while Gasoft is past his prime. The Hawks would be better off drafting Andrew Nicholson, Jeff Taylor or Royce White.

Rod from College Park

June 19th, 2012
11:05 am

High-sider, Rod,

If you had a choice of Jamal, Jason Terry, and Lou Williams, who would you take?

Probably Jamal because of his salary. Jamal at 5 mil is a bargin. Jason Terry made 11 mill last year, and Lou Williams will probably get more than 5 mil on the open market. I think they are the same player though. I would like to have either one of them. I say Jamal because I have already seen what he could do on this team.

Rod from College Park

June 19th, 2012
11:08 am

“Haha @ the way this dude always has my name in his mouth. Ima buy him a Jamal Crawford blow up doll for Christmas.”

I guess that was supposed to be a joke? This coming from the guy who keeps Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams nuts in his mouth. LOL

Najeh Davenpoop

June 19th, 2012
11:20 am

Michael Jordan is the Craig Ehlo of owners.

Astro Joe

June 19th, 2012
11:28 am

OB & Melvin, that Bobcats hire was fairly predictable. Not the specific guy, but the fact that MJ pretended to be interested in candidates with real resumes (and likely a high salary demand) and ultimately chose someone with very little NBA pedigree (and likely a low salary demand). I was good marketing and likely had more than a handful of folk thinking that he was ready to take the plunge. MJ is a living example of what I often say “when you think you can’t do worse, you can”. IMO, there is little doubt that MJ is a far worse owner than the ASG. I wonder if Barkley will run off at the mouth about that hire?

I recall that there was a “red flag” on the big man that the Spurs drafted a few years back… the guy from Pittsburgh (memory has left me this morning). His knees were supposed to explode the minute he played an NBA game. Someone will get a winner in Sullinger… a guy who will bring production and valuable intangibles to his pro team. I think he may be a little redundant with Ivan and because the Hawks have many needs to fill, Im not feeling like we need to add PF depth in the first round.

cp, so could Teague and Wroten play together like CP3 & Billups/Foye (in time, not initially)? Kind of co-PGs/SGs? At 6′4″ with reported good athleticism, it sounds like Wroten should be able to defend most SGs. I don’t like the idea of drafting a very young PG to back-up Teague (who is still learning the position himself). So if they don’t project Wroten playing with Teague for 20+ minutes in 2+ years, I don’t like that idea.

NBA Draft Rumors for June 17, 2012 | Roundball Direct

June 20th, 2012
12:50 pm

[...] is probably a two. We are going to bring him over and he will be involved with us this summer. Sergei, we don’t know. We are going back and forth with his agent. He has made strides in the ACB…. Well, there is some urgency in our summer league this year because of the roster spots. That being [...]

Atlanta Hawks: Assistant GM Dave Pendergraft on the draft

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Atlanta Hawks: Assistant GM Dave Pendergraft on the draft

211 comments Add your comment

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