Atlanta Hawks: Draft prospects scheduled for workouts

Dawg
June 12th, 2012
4:28 pm

The thing about this entire discussion is that the Hawks are not following any “model”. The owners are simply going through the motions as cheaply as possible until the Hawks are sold. There is no long range plan, there is no attempt to improve.

Why keep a coach before securing a GM? Horrible, Horrible management The people on this blog put more effort into planning for this team than the management.
______________________

No surprise here. This is an unfortunate but accurate reflection of ATL’s pro sports history.

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Oh, there is Melo….my bad eyes!

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Tyshawn Taylor is almost a complete clone of Flip Murray. Would love to snag him in the 2nd. Festus combine numbers are impressive.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Festus-Ezeli-5774/

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Gearon’s comments about KG being leaked to the world probably have something to do with that.

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ugh…no Jeff Taylor.

Man, get a wing defender.

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Michael Cunningham
June 12th, 2012
5:50 pm

they didn’t offer a reason. the recent trend for them has been less access for media. it’s their prerogative, obviously.
_______________________

Yes, it’s their prerogative. But if they don’t “offer” a reason for it, doesn’t that warrant a simple question: “Why no media access?”

A “trend” toward less media access doesn’t seem like a particularly good thing to me–especially with this generally noncommunicative franchise.

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Hawks need to find a way to draft Meyers Leonard in the worst way. Round 2, point guard from Iona is a poor man’s Chris Paul( Scott Machado).

1. Meyers Leonard C
2. Scott Machado PG

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1. Quincy Miller – top 10 talent, torn ACL, needs time…
2. John Jenkins – purest shooter in draft, can he be PG?
3. Fab Melo – shotblocking big, sloppy body
4. Doron Lamb – versatile guard, not explosive
5. Darius Miller – good mid-range shooter

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@ Astro Joe

From the previous blog no one said Joe Johnson is our MVP, but the way he’s paid he basically is the default MVP and doesn’t play like one hell he barely played like an All-star this past season.

This is the main reason why I’d wish people stop jumping on Al Horford especially since he was injured 3/4 of the year you know.

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@ tyger

We already have our PG what we really need is a legit backup PG like how OKC got with Eric Maynor didn’t cost them too much either.

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Steven A. – Terrence Jones mentioned he had a workout scheduled with Atlanta, and Marquis Teague may have been part of that as well.
I will check around to see if that is the case.

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Priority…of this group

Hawks LD ME
Royce White Jeff Taylor Royce White
Nicholson Nicholson Nicholson
Harkless Jared Cunn Jared Cunn
Will Barton John Jenkins John Jenkins
Plumlee Doron Lamb Will Barton

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Here is the funny thing about being Overrated in NBA draft. Honestly outside the Top 10 do you really consider those say 11-30 overrated?

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Robert Sacre is worth a look too and Quincy Acy in the 2nd round

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Also, The Atlanta Hawks must move “Average” Joe Johnson out of town as soon as possible. His “LACK OF LEADERSHIP” is destroying this organization. He has No Passion, No desire,
No traits. No characteristics, of a true leader. He has been absolutely “Inept” on the court and off the court.

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I like this list of guys. Harkless, Quincy Miller, and Lamb are the guys I like in the first. I like Darius Miller, Cunningham, and Plumlee in the second. Quincy Acy, Drew Gordon, and Kyle O’Quinn are some other guys I wouldnt mind in the second round.

John Jenkins cant play pg. He shoots well but other than that he does nothing else well. The more I look at Jeff Taylor the more I would stay away from him. The only way I wouldnt mind the Hawks taking him is if Harkless, Lamb, and Miller are both gone. I think those 3 will end up being better players than Taylor not saying Taylor is a scrub or anything.

@KevinM. I was shocked to see Quincy Miller test so well with his vertical although I still dont believe his knee is 100%. Add in his size and length and I just think its hard to pass over that type of value at 23.

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Steven A., you are absolutely correct, Josh is leaving, I have the same info from a VERY reliable source.

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joe johnson for jose calderon the number 8 pick..the hawks get cap relief,a back up point guard, and the raptors get the wing player they need, everyones happy… )

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1. Royce White!! Please draft him if he’s available n his anxiety won’t get in the way.
if not then..
2. Quincy Miller.
3. Moe Harkless.
4. Doron Lamb or jeffery taylor
5. Tony Wroten

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What is wrong with the ATL using the DL to develop talent…I am happy with the find of Ivan, but what have the Hawks done with their own picks…

There are so many (not ready for the NBA players) that come out too early…that could use a couple years in the DL to get their game on…the Hawks do nothing with their draft rights.

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I love the list of guys as well, Kris Joseph, Jeffery Taylor, Moe Harkless, Tony Wroten, Quincy Miller Will Barton are the guys I like the the most on the list.. Terrance Henry from Ole Miss is a sleeper, Hawks should have given him a workout

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We need no more PF with both Josh and Horford here..could definitely use a great center, but none worth getting @23 and any picked @43 would eventually get sent to D-league

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Astro Joe
June 12th, 2012
1:36 pm

Because I liked “Coming to America” and “48 Hours” I have to like “Pluto Nash” and “Norbit”? WOW!!!
——————————————————————————-

These movie channels have been playing “Vampire in Brooklyn,” “The Distinguished Gentleman,” and “Imagine That.” Did anybody like “Meet Dave”? LOL

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Q.Miller, Harkless, White or Wroten with the 1st rounder.

Barton, Taylor, Middleton or Sims with the 2nd rounder.

I would prefer to see the Hawks move up and draft Terrence or Perry Jones…

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OB,

I guess the Kings were thinking along the same lines as me. See below, even if Drummond is not available I would draft the best prospect which is probably a wing player that could replace Marvin or backup at the 2/3 if we could get Evans.

“Meanwhile, the Kings might be interested in moving their pick for a big man if Connecticut center Andre Drummond doesn’t drop to them at No. 5, says a source. “They have enough perimeter guys,” the source said. “In fact, I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if they saw what Marcus Thornton or Tyreke Evans, and maybe their pick, brought them. Probably not enough, but they really want another big to place alongside (DeMarcus) Cousins.”

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Here’s an old school “gem” for you Eddie Murphy fans. [LMAO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDbpzjbXUZI&feature=related

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Former Ohio State star David Lighty, who was undrafted and played in Italy, has workouts scheduled with Cavs, Spurs, Pacers and maybe Hawks

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UGA, that’s who we were going to give a shot to last year, and then the strike came, and there went any development. What have you heard about Lighty this past year? He is similar to Buford.

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I just read this on a twitter, he played in Italy and I looked up his stats. I think we were interested in Joe Alexander too….he played in Russia but got hurt.

Lighty may not be a bad get, for 475,000 that would be a good get.

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If the Hawks had kept the both of the 2nd round picks, could they have packaged both to get a late 1st round choice or package both + No. 23 slot to move up to get a better 1st round draft slot?

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Sorry, I’m bitter about how hopeless it is to be a Hawks fan while the ASG is in charge.

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Wilt Jr has got to go to the mid post up and attack! No way to stop Wilt Jr once he does that!

He’s too good!

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“GTanner

June 12th, 2012
9:24 pm
Maybe they can trade their draft pick for Shelden Williams”

I miss Shellhead! Remember how he was Player of the Month for April his rookie year? I bet BK was just grinning ear-2-ear on that one!

FYI, we sold pick 22 of the 2nd round, and nbadraft has the Warriors taking Miles Plumlee in that slot.

I’m okay with the Hawks dumping picks. They still have the current foreign crop:

G/F Alain Digbeu 1997 NBA Draft 49th pick
G/F Cenk Akyol 2005 NBA Draft 59th pick
G Sergiy Gladyr 2009 NBA Draft 49th pick

We can bring them over and let LD have a look at them to see who he can replace Teague with.

And back in ‘95, the Hawks drafted Cuonzo Martin, G out of Purdue. That same guy is now the head coach at Tennessee.

And the most successful pick the Hawks have ever made in the 2nd round?
Doc Rivers, G, Marquette, pick 31 in Round 2, 1983.

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donte080

June 12th, 2012
8:24 pm

Stephen A….

Joe Johnson is hardly inept…A 6-time all-star is not inept, dummy. I know his contract pisses you off, but get real. As far his “no desire”, you obviously have no clue. The guy plays hurt half the time….

Joe Johnson is an “overpaid scrub” he will never lead a team to a championship. Hard to beleive he made more money than Durant, Wade, Bosh, Westbrook, and James, this season.

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Hawks choices 2012 Draft.

1. Terrence Jones SF OR PF

2. Fab Melo C

3. Jeffery Taylor SF

4. Meyer Leonard C

5. Royce White SF

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Heat can’t keep up with Thunders in this series, Heat played there best 1st half of the playoffs.

Thunders in 6

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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FTPB,

Ra’mon,

O’B, Nique was right. How often does a bust of a #2 pick come, who contributes minimal to his team, and doesn’t even master one single skill. That only happens once every 10 years..

Don’t forget Darko Milicic. And I think MJ is very concerned about the #2 pick this year.

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doc, WiltJr going to work!

That crossover at the top of the key to beat Durant off the dribble then finish with a tomahawk dunk over Perkins was SICK!!!!!!!!

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Wade is ICE_COLD………

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yeah bro, been laughing with the wilt jr monker, but it is hard to deny that he is as much a freak as wilt was. meanwhile, okc finally got out of first gear.

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Looks like they are trying to find a SF to replace Marvin……..

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LBJ, learn to close!

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another terrible call. jvg is making stuff up.

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doc, cant imagine James going a whole career and join the likes of say Barkley, Malone, and one of my all time favorites the great Patrick Ewing in the 0-fer club? Nah……

Bosh has got to go to work now!

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Spoelstra’s an idiot.

Put James on Durant, Wade on Westbrook, Battier on Sefolosha, Chalmers on Fisher, and Bosh on Collison.

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Shoot Lebron! Shoot!

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i cant either slimj but you cant give it to him until he gets it. fouts and marino two of the best qb’s i ever saw are 0-fers, too. what he hasnt gotten is the time is now and always has been.miami put the target on their own backs saying stupid stuff in a public forum just as our owner did is the bottom line. but durant is having a huge game and the okc is taking it to the heat so i would say it is all about heat not doing it but the thunder taking it back what they gave them in the first half.

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10-17 is better slimj. heh heh

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yeah durant is lethal at 23 and he has it in his eye every game, never ever joking around. respect it.

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make it 11-18.

oops 12-19

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Miami shooting like the Hawks in this 4th quarter, just brutal..

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westbrook is trigger happy.

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Heat starting lineup [vs. Thunder] should be:

Chalmers vs. Sefolosha
Wade vs. Westbrook
James vs. Durant
Bosh vs. Ibaka
J. Anthony vs. Perkins

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HS, agreed! Also Durant being 6′11″ just adds to his arsenal…

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By game 5 Lebron and D wade will need oxygen mask.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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queen is getting a bit more attention from the thunder than he did against the celts.

oh my

turn out the lights, the party is over.

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Mike Miller [is] the ultimate gravy train and coattail rider.

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Spoelstra should not be the head coach next year if they dont get it done….

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Miller=Capt Kirk, nothing left in the tank….

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Yea doc, Kevin is a CLASS ACT for sure dude……

Just an awesome baskeball player and person!

BK would have passed on him for ALL Whatever… Heheh

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doc, I don’t know too much about golf [or tennis].

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JSS, a few weeks ago Grandad pointed out Andrew to us on this blog!

This dude has AllStar written all over his game!!!

He already more polished than any of the Bigs the Hawks have right now!!!!!

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@KevinM. I really like Lamb’s game. I had almost forgot about him until you brought him up the other day. If the Hawks do as they did last year with picking up a lot of vets then I dont think the guy we take at 23 will get much pt anyway. Its still Harkless, Miller, and Lamb for me… I dont think Cunningham can play point but he can play some off guard Dude is very explosive and he gets to the line. They said he was moving up the board but if he is there when the Hawks pick then they should grab him up. I know Miller doesnt have that explosiveness but he was never a really big leaper anyway. Dude has some solid post moves and his length really gives people problems. He could have used another year of school but its still somebody I think that will be hard to pass up.

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I just flip flopped!

OKC in 5!

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The Refs tried to give it to Lebron but Durant was not having it…

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His post game is the real thing, and he is Ivan Johnson tuff without the Drew coma inducing mode swings! Steve Nash just gushes about him!

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Spoelstra should put the Heat’s best defensive player [James] on the Thunder’s best offensive player [Durant]. He, Spoelstra, should start Bosh. Even though I’m not “crazy” about Bosh, he should still start. Bosh is not [a] Jamal Crawford, Jason Terry, James Harden, Lamar Odom or Lou Williams; he’s not a sixth man. Bosh is not accustomed to coming off the bench. Spoelstra should bring Battier and Haslem off the bench and start Joel Anthony. I hate that “video coordinating” SOB.

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Message to James and Wade:

You two [James and Wade] need to duplicate what you [two] did against the Pacers. The two of you need to go for [score] 30-37pts apiece [or possibly 40+ points] with Bosh chipping in 17-21pts and hopefully, you, James and Wade, can get decent to marginal [scoring] contributions from [your] teammates.

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KevinM

You mentioned earlier that A.nicholson`s vert leap was poor.
I agree.

The thing about A.N. however, is not his athleticism,
but his skill level.

This kid is a stretch [4] who will easily be able to play the [3].
Yet, he has the best footwork in the post of any kid
I`ve seen coming out of college in quite some time.
Not just in the Post either; his footwork is terrific all `round.

Understanding how to play, and mastering technique;
may be more important than pure athleticism.

____________________________________________

Slimjr … -&- … JSS

Thanks fot the props !

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No, James Jone did not play in Game 1 vs. the Thunder.

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^Correction: “No, James Jones* did not play…”

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Vote in the latest poll being conducted by the ASG !

http://twitter.com/Retire248/statuses/200775442632949761

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What the pros are saying about the trade?

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/06/12/atlanta-hawks/?cp=3#comment-312679

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Gasol is coming to Atlanta, Al Horford goes to the lakers!

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Riggatore, stop posting that trash. No one wants Pau for Smith much less Gasol. How about Gasol for Hinrich and Marvin?

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I see the Hawks drafting a forward that will be cut before the season starts!!!

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Hawks still need to dump Joe to Washington for Rashard Lewis’s buyout and the 32nd pick. There should be a decent SG prospect available at 32. Hawks free up $6M to use the MLE on a free agent SG as well. Free agent + 32nd pick replaces Joe. Put the ball in Teague’s hands to see what he has in his second full year.

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OB,

I almost jump on a plane to OKC at halftime to go choke Westbrook. Yes, he took a lot of shots but OKC needed him to be aggressive. Harden didn’t have a good game and didn’t play much in the 4th qtr so that allowed Westbrook an opportunity to take more shots as well. Westbrook is the catalyst that makes that team play at a fast pace. As they say back in my day “You live by him, you got to die by him”. However, Durant is the heart and soul of that team. He’s a special player.

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o’b, i hope you heard the rest of it when it said that brooks supports him and wants him to keep doing the things he wants him to do that westbrook is his point guard and no one else’s. basically dont listen to anyone else’s criticisms except his own and he likes the way the kid plays. nice confidence builder for a young point guard.

also, still too many missed calls one on chalmers and two on collison among the most egregious. hated jvg trying to downplay the role of the charge. with a the ticky calls on defenders brushing anyone that is the most effective one to keep the game from being a lay up pregame drill. also ittakes the hustle and bravado away from the game.

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doc,

If you listen closely to JVG, he always debating calls/plays in the Heat favor but he’s neutral….lol

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aj, i was making that comparison last week as well though a perimeter player he does impact the game in a similar way.

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From yahoo sports;

Most of all, this was Durant’s night and a window into his deeper development as a true star. He wanted the assignment to defend James, and he did admirable work on him. “Kevin always wants to guard the best player,” Thunder coach Scott Brooks said. “He’s determined to play great defense..

Compare that to Lebron, who is the Heat’s best perimeter defender, but Spoelstra suggested he guard Perkins. I know Spo wants to keep LeBron fresh, but I would put him on KD.

Lebron: LeBron: “We have to get more guys in there to give me and D-Wade rest.”.

Comments like this is why people give him a hard time. Don’t make excuses (although he is right).

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OB,

Did you see my post at 8:43 last night, in reference to the Sacramento Kings?

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Melvin, in the 2005 draft, Portland originally had the #3 pick, but switched with Utah so that they could draft the player they wanted… Martell Webster. So Portland could have also drafted Deron Williams or Chris Paul, but decided BEFORE draft night that they would rather have Martell Webster. Most franchises have a few of those boneheaded slections hidden in their closet. of course, folk like Chad Ford ALWAYS mention the Hawks and NEVER talk about other team’s mistakes. I always guessed it was because when Ford calls someone from the Hawks for insider information, the Hawks tell him “go and kick rocks”.

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Hawks obviously need to address the SF position. If Harkless or Jones slip, sccop one of them. If Melo is there, gamble on him. In the 2nd round, if Draymond Green is still there, he is a winner.

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northcyde, that strategy would probably work well.

Meanwhile…
Atlanta general manager Rick Sund is also believed to be a potential candidate. Sund’s contract expires at the end of the month, and there is no word from Atlanta or Sund on whether he will be extended. Last month the Hawks denied Portland’s request to speak with Sund regarding its hunt for a GM. Portland eventually filled the position with former Los Angeles Clippers GM Neil Olshey. Philadelphia Inquirer

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aj where is sund going?

and why isnt this organization trying to pull in a guy like walsh to be president of basketball operations and hire a gm to oversee?

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@aj

That is simple because they are still in caretaker mode. For the Sund question, no idea at all. I think they are keep their mouth shut about any transaction so they wont get another Garnet problem.

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Back to our team, I like what someone mentioned in a previous post where Denver had a core that they simply blew up shortly after making the conference finals. They left no one unturned. Denver looked good this past year and has a lot to be excited about this year.
I can see the same thing needing to be done here instead of us standing pat. The difference is ownership of course. This group has no inclination of admitting that this ain’t working.
You move one of the 3 captains signals a resurgence in the thinking of the front office.
Whether Sund leaves or not is probably irrelevant. His guys think like he does and I would be surprised if there were ever any serious differences in the bunch.

Just Joe, why not Joe for Pau instead of Rashard? A huge shrink in the long term commitment.
Wouldn’t that give us a team to field next year instead of having a guy who may not even accept a buyout? Honestly, I don’t see the ASG giving anyone money for walking away.

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I have no faith in the Lakers accepting a Joe for Pau trade.

Rashard does not have an option to accept or decline a buyout. The $13.7M is the guaranteed portion of this year’s salary. You simply cut him and pay him. Consider it “ripping off the Joe Johnson band aid”.

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At least several teams in the top 15 want to trade down from reading ESPN rumors if Hawks trade Josh Smith they move up and get a decent C or PG but this is Sund and Gearon’s draft so would not bank on it .

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JustJoe, believe it or not, I can’t see trading an all-star from Lewis, who is far removed from efficient.

If it were to potentially happen, it would have to be like for like. The problem it opens is there is no Joe replacement lined up like we could have had 2 seasons back. So, too much of an onus to try and move a player with zero depth behind him.

This management team couldn’t put one noteworthy trade together, much less 2. Would you be surprised if Hinrich is back in the fold? I wouldn’t.

These guys simply think opposite of common sense.

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Or we could trade Joe Johnson to Milwaukee for the #12 best chance to draft Meyers Leonard.

It would work for Milwaukee so they could find a way to keep Jennings from not leaving, and plus Joe Johnson is a better all around player than Monta Ellis plus Joe is 6′7 vs. 6′3.

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@ O’Brien

Thank you someone else mention it at least Joe Johnson is beginning his decline, but on this blog we got Josh Vs. Al where as it should be what to do about Marvin Williams and Joe Johnson.

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I say Trade Marvin for Clevelands #24 pick the one right after ours at #23 they would probably go for it.

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ryan – Josh for Lopez right now if im the Hawks.

If the Magic was going trade D12 for Lopez you can’t tell me Hawks can’t do the same.

Teague, Joe, Terrence Jones, Horford, Lopez

Pargo, Gerald Green, Marvin, Ivan, Zaza

LOOK REAL GOOD ON PAPER.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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That doesn’t look good on paper at all @ BIG DOG

Why because #1 Joe Johnson is still here
#2 Marvin
#3 Don’t know what we going to get out Terrence Jones
#4 We lose a game changer in Josh Smith

#4 is the biggest concern when we trade Josh I’m hoping to get back someone like Durant basically.

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“Or we could trade Joe Johnson to Milwaukee for the #12 best chance to draft Meyers Leonard.”

He will go to Portland at 6 or 11 if they pick him before Detroit. If he was to slip to Milwaukee’s pick, that is his floor. No way Milwaukee trades that pick if they have any shot at him.

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Actually, drafting a Euro player and stashing him overseas could easily be something the Hawks consider. They won’t have to pay him until he comes here and they would still meet the requirement of making a draft selection. (I’m just thinking about the balance sheet people, not speaking as a fan who wants them to add talent to the roster).

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MsDee – How about Josh for Ellis and Bucks #12 and Hawks Draft Meyers Leonard.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Grandad – Only 2 scenarios I want ATL drafting Adam Nicholson (rhymes with Keefe – joking) is:

1) If he can play the 3 or 5 legit – not just in spots. We have enough 4’s

2) If he’s the best available player left at #23. I say always draft the best available player, regardless of position. Then you at least have a valuable asset to trade.

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2 things can beat OKC – An injury or they mentally start celebrating early.

Miami cannot beat them otherwise.

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Teague, Joe, Terrence Jones, Horford, Meyers Leonard

Pargo, Ellis, Marvin, Ivan, Zaza

Ellis would be the 6TH man of year, he would be the Hawks new Jamal Crawford.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Josh is a vet – Faried is a young guy – Josh for Faried and Chandler? We discussed this several days ago – some were for it.

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Big Dog,

Not sure if the Bucks would go for Josh considering the fact that the Bucks fans dont like Josh and he would NEVER sign as extention with them, whereas, their fans would love Joe since he always put on a show in front of them.

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I feel sorry for any player drafted by the Hawks. The player will never have a shot at a Championship and will not be developed by the coaches.
Whoever is drafted I say, Welcome to loserville, where mediocrity is the goal.

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Stephen A…..

Again, you have no clue. Johnson is not a bad defensive player at all. I understand you hate his contract, but you don’t seem to have the emotional maturity to be able to separate the player from the moola….

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SteveW

June 13th, 2012
2:05 pm

The Nets GM was asked why would he trade a lottery pick, only Top 3 protected, for Gerald Wallace – he said there were only 3 guys they liked in the draft.

So Northcyde may be right about this fool’s gold thing.

Or the Nets GM may be really wrong.

***********************

SteveW . . . some of these GMs are idiots. But ALL of them aren’t. There are too many lottery teams trying to trade their pick for established talent, for me to believe that this is a “deep draft”.

Most of these guys are role playing starters or bench guys at best. So you got lottery teams dangling their picks to Luxury Tax teams or cash strapped teams, in hopes that the team will give them a good, established player for that pick.

Those non-playoff teams do not want to wait for these kids in the draft to develop into quality players. They want a quality player NOW.

- Anthony Davis
- Thomas Robinson
- Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
- Jeremy Lamb
- Terrence Ross

Those are the 5 that are probably most “NBA Ready”. You got too many guys who need to work on NBA essential aspects of their game, respective to their position.

A guy like Mo Harkess is good. But he’s “good” in a Chris Singleton defensive player type of good. He can’t shoot well enough to be a “stretch the floor” SF, so he’ll have to be a slasher on the next level. If he gets exposed defensively, that kid could get buried on the bench.

It’s going to be a lot of teams mad at their draft picks in this draft, come 2015.

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BIG DOG,

Many ways the Hawks could go in trading Josh.

1. Josh for Lopez in a straight up deal..

Despite being 7’0”, 265 pounds, and a starting center, Lopez only averaged 4 rebounds per game this past season. I know he was injured, but still…Unacceptable for a starting center.

2. Josh and # 23 for Tyreke and Kings #5.

I don’t think Sacramento will give up their 5th pick for a guy who will only play with them for one season, and then leave as a FA. The better trade is what Melvin proposed (Al for Tyreke and #5).

3. Josh for Gay Grizzles say there not trading him but rumor is still out there he may gone..

Josh is on the books for $13.2 mil, while Gay will make over $16 mil. I doubt the ASG wants to pick up extra salary to pay a SF, while still paying Marvin $7.5+ mil.

4. Josh for Gasol i hate this trade because of Gasol age 32..

The salaries don’t match up, so it would have to be Josh and Marvin for Gasol.

5. Josh for Ellis and Bucks #12.

Ellis for JJ I would do, but Josh for Ellis and #12? I don’t like that deal.

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I prefer to look at what youngsters have actually accomplished
with what gifts have been given them.
-rather-
Than, try to envision potential
that may or may not be there if properly motivated.
Who`s to say that previous coaches have not done
all that could be done referencing motivation with these lazy kids
[ones who seemingly do not have a motor].
Why not call it like it is – they are lazy. = PJ III; Moultrie; etc.
Everyone thinks they are the ones who can turn that kid around !
Yeah – myself included ! … It don`t work … neither do they.

Watch the kids play.
See what they have actually accomplished.
Factor in their skill.
Then look at their ceiling !
Whether or not there is room for growth ?
*This is Important:
*’`note the Intangibles`’* !!!

G-dad the scout
editor`s note – all this and stll no one bats a 1.000.

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I know the Hawks cannot trade their 1st round pick this year (because they traded it last year). However, can they trade the pick as long as they get a 2012 1st round draft pick back?

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northcyde

I surmise the thinking amongst the blog intelligentsia is;
that Joe`s trade value is so low
that he might not even be worth a Yugo in return.

My thinking is;
Joe would have value in a pkg with another young plyr [Teague].
Therefore the question becomes;
can we – afford to / or not to – trade Joe ?

Obviously;
any trade of this nature would be intricate and involve either simultaneous
or subsequent moves by an intelligent forward thinking non-retiree of a GM.

One who would be thinking ahead -not only- as to how to replace Joe;
but Jeff as well.
Therein lies the problemo`.

We have toooo much of thisama and not near enough of thatama.

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I think Meyers Leonard will be gone before # 12.
His stock is rising rapidly.

Right now – my guess is as high as # 6 & low being #10.

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Doesn’t matter who they draft. Even with LaBron, Kylie, KG, and Derrick, the Hawks are still the Hawks. Doesn’t even matter who the manager is…they are a tradition in mediocrity. Just my learned opinion.

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Ray, That right keep Josh if stay that’s good if he leave so what 13mill of the cap next summer.

Draft Melo with #23 it only make since with Zaza contract coming 2 and end next season, Fab is a good young center who could defend the paint better than any one in this draft, and also a legit center.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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If we could get the Cavs to give us picks 33 and 34 for Marvin’s contract, I’d probably do that at this point.

Or GSW with picks 30 and 35

OB – Yes, you can trade your 1st pick, as long as you have a 1st pick at least every other year. So we probably trade down for GSW’s 30th pick and stay within the letter of the law.

Like Gearon said we had never even considered selling our 1st pick – so we trade down the 24th pick for 27 and 31 (the 1st pick in the 2nd round), and sell #31.

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OB – Here is the germane part of the Ted Stepien rule concerning draft picks:

“Also, a team can remain in compliance with the rule by acquiring a first-round pick that originally belonged to another team.”

Source: Wikepedia

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trade josh smith for a center or trade for a wing defender and to move up in the second to take a center, and draft tony wroten in the 1st hes a legit pg/sg combo

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There are plenty of legit centers in this draft that will be available at 23. Melo is a project, very athletic, but has no offensive game with only half a year of experience. Henry Sims is the man! Not extremely athletic, but decent post game, blocks shots, and extremely high bball IQ, at 43 pick the best player available…i.e Scott Machado

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@ snonuff

I’d like move Josh Smith to SF because of his frame and size dude is 6′8 or 6′9 225 that’s Kevin Durants Weight now compare that to Amare, Horford, Duncan, Pau, Kevin Love, and others

Those guys are 6′10 or higher and weights can range from 230-260 or 280 depending.

Horford can handle those guys better cause he matches up with them better just like Josh can handle the SF’s except Durant and Lebron(we will see if he moves to SF full time).

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You have to love the posts that call Horford mediocre followed (n the very same post) by a suggestion we trade him for a top 20 player. Horford is average but we can trade him for one of the best centers in the game?

Grandad, I just noticed that Henry Sims is not even projected to be drafted in the 2nd round by DraftExpress. How is that possible? Have you chjecked him out yet? Supposedly a very worthy prospect to be considered late in the first round/early second round. Good size, athleticism, shot-blocking skills and passing. Just needs to improve his rebounding from what I have read.

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aj, there are certified psychotic and/or obsessive compulsives on this blog. there is no way to reason with them.

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The Hawks are not drafting Melo at #23…

He doesn’t have the offensive game of Keith Benson and Benson is equal the shot blocker….. and you see what happened to him.

There are too many BIGS in this draft that will be around in the 2nd for the Hawks to draft Melo…
Sims, Plumlee, Sacre and Fetus… those are just the ones in the draft.

The Hawks are going to draft the best skilled player at the SG or SF…Unless someone slips.
Taylor, Cunningham, White, Barton, Green or Harkless…

I think Barton is the favorite…Barton has the size, length, and athleticism of a prototypical NBA wing, he can get to the hole, rebound and defend…. Plus, we have enough jump shooter, we need a SLASHER.

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O’B,

Al for Evans and #5 pick is the best trade (that actually seems realistic), that I’ve seen this off season. I can’t say it makes the Hawks better than with Al. But I can say on paper, it does make the Hawks better than what they were this season. Teague – Tyreke – Joe gives the Hawks the best back court in the East (not as good as Westbrook, Harden, Durant, lol). And I would attempt to move the #5 and #23 to get the #2 pick from Charlotte if it seemed you wouldn’t end up with Drummond, or who you were targeting. I know if you lose Josh that’s a threat (though I don’t think he would leave with that line up), you still have a chance to go into the next season with a lineup of Teague – Tyreke – Joe – Drummond – Zaza. That’s not a terrible line up. I actually would take Zaza over any of the centers in the NBA finals right now.

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northcyde,

JJ has 4 years, $89 mil left on his deal (including $20 mil next year), and will turn 31 this year,while coming off 2 disappointing years (for various reasons).

Josh will make much less than $20 mil per year on his next deal (and only $13 mil next year), and will turn 27 this year,while coming off one of his best years.

Therefore, Josh will bring back a better package than JJ, and Hawks can actually afford to keep Josh and Al (if they get rid of JJ). If they keep JJ, their budget is very limited. It is what it is.

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Hawksfan12, Sund didn’t choose Marvin. Also if BK used game footage and not hard workouts to evaluate Sheldon (who was dominate in college games), wouldn’t that be an indicator to not use only one, but to use both?

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Good posts Shonuff. I hope you dont mind me re-posting your earlier post.

Im amazed at the illogical thinking of the AL Horford supporters who are trying to avoid the inevitable trade of Al Hoford by trying to shift every body out of position.

a) Al is amongst the weakest defenders in the post. More so, because he has a passive attitude about defense that lacking the ability to play defense.

b) Josh Smith is our power forward and one of the very best in the NBA both offensively and defensively. So why in the name of wisdom, would you want to move Josh from the post and to put him on the wing to

1) shoot from the perimeter as a small forward

2) take him from the post play of the power forward where he is a great shot block, defender and rebounder

3) Put in Al who is not in Josh’s league offensively or defensively. Why would you move to lower the level of talent at the power forward to accommodate Al while weakening the position.

c) If you want to mess up the chemistry of this team. Force Josh out of his position to make room for a player who has less ability than him. That stirs internal strife, makes the hawks a weaker team offensively and defensively, and is insulting enough for Josh to ask for a trade to a team thats serious about winning.

The best solution is to trade AL HORFORD, for Gasol, Bynum Dwight Howard or any other .real impact center. It keeps us with one of the best power forward in the game in his position, (Al would be rated some where from 17th to 23rd, Josh easily in the top 4) and it strengthens us at the center position with the type of talent that will allow us to take it to the next level, instead of backsliding with the mediocrity of Al’s play.

Al has 12+ Million dollars that he is getting paid to put up 12pts and 8 rebs. Take Al’s 12 million and put that with Marvin’s 6.7Million and you have 20 million dollars to land any franchise changing center out there.

This is a no brainer people We can do this. We can get D12, Bynum or any other major center. Dont settle of the Mediocrity called AL HORFORD.

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Thank you 2X Sir James. for the re-post and correction

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O’Brien

June 13th, 2012
11:32 pm

northcyde,

JJ has 4 years, $89 mil left on his deal (including $20 mil next year), and will turn 31 this year,while coming off 2 disappointing years (for various reasons).

Josh will make much less than $20 mil per year on his next deal (and only $13 mil next year), and will turn 27 this year,while coming off one of his best years.

Therefore, Josh will bring back a better package than JJ, and Hawks can actually afford to keep Josh and Al (if they get rid of JJ). If they keep JJ, their budget is very limited. It is what it is.

*********************

That wasn’t the point that I was making.

My thing is . . . why just take ANYTHING to get out from under JJ’s contract? We are talking about an All-Star level guard who is still a top 5 SG in this league. But you have people who are in favor or trading him for a bucket of uncooked “chitlins” with flies all around it, just to get out from under his contract?

If you as a fan care about being even in the playoff picture, it doesn’t make sense.

Trades talking about Monta and Milwaukee’s pick . . . or Tyreke and Sacramento’s pick, are actually good trades if the Hawks are dead set on moving JJ. At least those moves gets you something tangible back for that caliber of player.

Teague
Monta/Tyreke
Marvin
Smith
Horford

( 1st round pick )

At least in that scenario, you get something decent back for JJ to work toward the future

But check it. If you replace JJ’s name with Josh Smith . . and say that you wanted to move him for Monta + Milwaukee’s pic or Tyreke + Sacramento’s pick, people would have a fit. It’s funny to me.

JJ for Gasol = OK

Josh for Gasol = No – no – no – no – no

And all of this with Josh being the “wild card” in all of this. You got people suggesting trades of guys who we KNOW will be here for at least the next 3 years, but aren’t willing to trade the guy who may leave us hanging like Danny Manning at the end of 2013.

And to me, that’s the worst case scenario. For us to go the entire season next year, only to STILL lose Josh to someone else because he simply wants the change of scenery. God forbid that he keeps shooting jumpers, and the fans at Philips keep getting onto him about it. He’s definitely gone then.

What’s the use of having “assets”, if a franchise isn’t willing to use them to improve the team?

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According to nbadraft.net its Royce White. From his highlights he looks pretty good.

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Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

June 14th, 2012
2:51 am

According to nbadraft.net its Royce White. From his highlights he looks pretty good.

***********************

Royce White = a poor man’s Boris Diaw, but maybe a little tougher

The biggest red flag against White is his FT shooting, which is abysmal ( 50% FT ). And if you’re a SF that shoots that poorly from the line, that means that your jumpshot is probably garbage too. Dude can pass his butt off though.

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Then you look at the 56% of the plays he did score in transition. Teague and JJ set that dude up for all kinds of dunks this season. So why not give the ball to a guard every time? He tends to only give it to them when a steal is forced, and the Hawks have a 2 on 1 the other way.

Other times, when the Hawks get a steal, JJ and Teague seem to be always looking for a trailing ( or snowbirding ) Josh to pass to, so he can finish with a dunk or layup.

If we keep Josh, Drew has to break his habit of bringing up the ball after he gets a defensive rebound. He hardly ever scores when he does that. But he’s a monster when he actually gets the ball to a guard and receives the pass from them.

SMH . . you got

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JJ for Evans + 5 = miracle

The Hawks are scheduled to pay Joe roughly 1/3 of the league salary cap for the upcoming year. So, 1/3 of our 2013/14 allowed cap (not considering exceptions) will be spent on a 31 yr old SG that averaged 18.8 pts, 3.7 rebs, 3.9 assists against 1.9 turnovers, on 45% shooting (39% from 3).

My argument for salary-dumping JJ is that he is not good enough to be eating up that much of the cap. If I moved Joe to Washington for Lewis’s $13.7M buyout and the 32nd pick, then for the same money in 2013/14, I can only afford the 32nd pick plus an MLE-level free agent. But in 2014/15 I can afford another MLE-level free agent and still have $10M+ to spend elsewhere. How much worse is this team if we spend the MLE on Landry Fields/Nick Young/JR Smith, draft Orlando Johnson at 32 (current draft express prediction), and sign free agent David Lighty? Still a playoff team?

Tyreke Evans averaged 16.5 pts, 4.6 rebs, 4.5 assists against 2.7 turnovers, on 45% shooting (20% from 3). He makes $5.2M this year with a qualifying offer of $6.9M next year.

Washington can afford to give out 1/3 of the cap to Joe because his actual cost in 2013/14 is only $6M (they have to pay Lewis $13.7M), and 7 members of their current roster are on rookie scale contracts, with all but 1 under team control until the last year of Joe’s contract.

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IMO, Royce White’s star took off against Kentucky in the NCAA tournament. He had a dynamic game for the 1st 2/3, then the game was out of hand and he was no longer a factor.
Here is what I see that will keep Pendergraft from taking this guy:

Weaknesses

White has an anxiety disorder, he’s seriously afraid of flying, and he was suspended at Minnesota for his part in allegedly stealing a laptop.

That might be enough for White to be passed over by Pendergraft.

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Northcyde – No way are you still talking about starting Marvin in 2012, JUST DAM

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2012/6/13/3082712/nba-mock-draft-2012-fab-melo-hawks
Check this out and tell me what you think Hawk fans.

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I think I see where we may be going with all this:

Remember Sund saying we will make every effort to keep Jamal, he’s part of the core, we’ll wait until after the season to make an offer blah, blah, blah? Then no offer to our knowledge.

Same may be happening with Josh, just for cap purposes. Except they haven’t said they’ll make him an offer so much.

Our cap after next season looks like:

JJ 21 mil
Al 12 mil
Marvin 7.5 mill

About 40.5 mill – JJ’s numbers are rounded – within a few hundred thousand.

I think ASG may have figured out, with Pendergraft’s help, that maybe a Jeff Taylor/Darius Miller combo at SF, or some other SF, gives you Marvin for a whole lot less money. That’s why their seriously trying to salary dump Marvin. It may even be Trey Gilder and a draft pick who replaces Marvin.

But even if you have to keep Marvin, if you can re-sign Teague and ZaZa for 6 mill per each, your 2013/14 season is looking like this:

JJ 21 m
Al 12 m
Marvin 7.5 m
Teague 6 mill
ZaZa 6 mill
This years 1st 1.4 mill
Next years 1st 1.2 mill

That’s 55.1 mill – And it let’s ASG use it’s mid – level – The full mid – level, not the over the cap, over the LT mini mid – And still have alot of cash left over to fill out the bench. Because you under the cap.

Even figuring Ivan in at a couple of mill per – Your still under the cap.

And if you can dump Marvin’s salary all the better, because then you can pursue a FA up to the cap – then use the mid – level on another FA.

But re-signing Josh is not looking too promising from a cap perspective

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To Steven A.
#1 you have no sources, who do you think you are? #2 Let Josh Smith walk. The best the Hawks could get for him is a bag of balls. Why do you think he’s still here.

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Grandad,

I’m a loyal Georgetown Hoyas fan and watch that team religiously. I don’t care what Henry Sims athletics test results are. He’s a legit 2nd round pick. He was an enforcer in the paint on defense. He’s a great passer and has post moves with his back to the basket. Yes he’s not a high flyer but he knows how to use his length and size to be effective. You have to watch this kid play to appreciate what he brings to the game. Using drills and measurements as your deciding factor will have you drafting more guys like Marvin Williams.

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glw – I would do Joe for Gasol in a heart beat, Laker need a change also with a front court of Josh, Horford, Gasol is not bad.

Teague, ? , Josh, Horford, Gasol

Pargo, Gerald Green, Marvin, Ivan, Zaza

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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I was reading about Marvin on a Jazz blog – and he’s rather well thought of there – ship him there. There wanting a Raja Bell for Marvin swap however. They just think Marvin is an improvement over the injured Josh Howard – the current Josh Howard, not the past Josh.

And Sacramento has a hilarious piece on SB Nation about their inept front office – and how they trade Tyreke and # 5 for Marvin instead of Josh because they need a 3.

And the team of Teague, JJ, Tyreke, Josh, and Al make it to the ECF’s as the East #2 seed. Good read.

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Lakers Gasol for Joe

Session, Kobe, Joe, World, Bynum

Lakers will except this trade and work for both team with Joe and Gasol being almost the same age.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Now I would do JJ for Gasol. I have no idea who I’d draft at #23 to play SG however. Jordan Jenkins? Lamb? Barton?

And Grandad – I’m sold on Machado as a legit 2nd round pick. Look at what Isaiah Thomas did with Sactown last season. As the 60th pick.

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But at the end of the day, I think that any trade involving JJ, regardless of merits, is just daydreaming. Same with Al. I think Josh and Marvin are the only two guys on the block right now, though I could see LD trading Teague if the right deal came along.

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And I can’t see a realistic Josh trade that makes us a better team this season. Not even considering cap situations.

Gasol probably is the closest realistic trade scenario…but the salaries are really far apart.

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If Josh takes the same leap in improvement this season that he made last season, he’s a Top 20 player. Hands down. Fighting towards the Top 10.

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BIG DOG,

Im not real high on a Joe for Gasol deal. Gasol is declining, and he disappears more than Joe in the playoffs, he would help the inside game, but you then have Josh, Zaza, Al, and Pau. And please dont tell me move Josh to the 3. every team in the league would back off and dare us to shoot a jumper.

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Now I would offer Miami Josh, Marvin, swap 1st picks with them this season so they can draft higher, our 1st picks in 2013 and 15 which is the most allowable in that time frame for LeBron. Sign Ivan and give them Ivan also. Get Riley and Arinson drunk so they’d do it. Set a honeytrap. Get MI6 inolved or whatever.

I could deal with a team of:

ZaZa
Al
LeBron
JJ
Teague

I wouldn’t dislike LeBron any longer if he were a Hawk.

He’d probably opt out after next season and leave us stuck – but hey, even 1 year with that team would be great.

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Steve, some of Josh’s improvement this past year was a result of him having to shoulder more of the load with Horford missing. My guess is that while Smith’s stats went up, the team’s stats didn’t. For example, if Smith grabbed 2 more rebounds, did the team grab 2 more rebounds or did he just get 2 boards that Horford would have grabbed? And that isn’t a knock, better for Josh to have grabbed the rebounds than the opposition. And better for Josh to have taken the extra FGAs than Zaza (hands of stone). I just think that folk should be cautious when expecting comparable stats from a player who had higher usage due to an injured key teammate. My guess is that Gay ’s numbers were higher last season due to Z-Bo missing a lot of time. I wouldn;t expect Gay to do the same with a healthy Z-Bo playing around 80 games next season.

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Northcyde,

Some of you would change your mind about Josh bringing the ball up the court, if you could watch all of his plays in transition. He turned the ball over on 22.3% of his possessions in transition. Some of these turnovers are flat out comical. A lot of these I remember, but they still blow my mind.

And Drew can’t break him from this?.

LD lets Josh get away with it.

From a Hawks blog on March 3, 2011.

Drew: “Josh, he’s kind of a kamikaze. You know in transition with him bringing the ball on the break that there’s a chance the ball could end up in the stands somewhere but you also know he’s capable of making plays. I’ve come to the point to live with that. When he gets the ball off the glass and brings it down on the break, we are in an attack mode….

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2011/03/03/hawks-83-bulls-80/?cxntfid=blogs_hawks/

Josh needs a coach who can save him from himself, and LD is not it. On the other hand, I think LD is afraid to say anything to Josh because it might rub Josh the wrong way, and could push him further out the door.

Josh and LD’ s contract expire the same time, and when trying to convince Josh to resign, he may have an opinion on the HC. So if Josh is no longer sold on him, there is a strong possibility LD wont be brought back (if Josh wants to come back), so LD plays nice with Josh. Just my opinion.

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Odom / Al / Zaza / Joe / Teague

Draft picks 7, 23 & 30

That would be a revamp of this roster.

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Is this another Hawks draft where they give up the second rounder for cash? Or just end up keeping the pick, but not developing it? Hawks management/ownership suck and have no clue how to build a franchise. Stupid idiots.

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Grandad- Sism being 7ft in shoes and having a 9 ft standing reach means nothing. Solomon Jones had a 9′1 standing reach and we all know how that turned out. Fab Melo,Sims,and Myers Leonard are ehhhh….. Im not impressed at all. They would never see the court here. The would be the New Benson from last yr.

I am for Josh staying but if he definitely wants to go the best trade Idea Ive seen is Josh for Fahreid/Chandler. Legit SF and a Hustle/Rebounding machine.
I would like to snag Asik in FA Josh/Horford/Asik or Fahreid/Horford/Asik

Can we amnesty Marvin already, I swear we could get the same production from one of these SF’s in the draft.

FYI -This team is going NOWHERE as long as JJ is on this team. Besides the contract he just doesnt perform all the time and has the leadership ability of a folding chair. My god its gonna be a long two years.

If the Kings did the JJ for Evans and the 5th pick…..WE take Kidd Gilchrist and call it a day.

Possible lineup

Teague,Evans,Chandler,Horford,Asik

Teague,Evans,JJ,Horford,Lopez

I would also be all over a JJ for Tyreke and the #5 pick.

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Shots, shots, shots, shots….

One thing the Thunder prove…
is you have to have shotmakers…
Westbrook, Durant, Harden all make shots…

Hawks do not have enough shotmakers…
JJ is the only one…all others suspect…

Hawks need young legs and shotmakers…
When Green, Vladi, Pargo were going well…
Hawks were great, when not, well…

Marvin, Josh, Al can make the intermediate shot…
But neither are consistent shotmakers…
We need a young, lights out shooter/scorer:
Lillard, J.Lamb, Q.Miller, Jenkins…

Folks love to diss Marvin…
But Marvin can defend Durant, Kobe, Lebron and Pierce…
How many in draft can do the same?

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BIG DOG,

I was just saying what we have if we traded Joe for Gasol. We would be too stocked at the 4 and 5. So either Josh would play 3 (which I am totally against) or trade somebody (most likely Josh)

As far as the Tyreke Evans and #5 pick rumors. I just cant see them giving up both for any 1 player on our team. not even sure if we threw in our 1st rounder. Sort of would be dumb. I do think if they would want to pair someone with Cousins, it would be Al over Josh. JJ makes no sense to them, they want a new arena and u going to take on 90 million in salaries for a decling player? While I think they would trade Josh straight up Evans, what is the incentive in giving away a 1st round pick for Josh who is a long shot at best to sign long term?

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NOTE: Robinson nor Kidd-Gilchrist will be available for Sacramento at 5. They are either 2-3 or 3-2 draft positions.

Beal may be there at 5, Barnes probably won’t be there at 5 though.

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with rick sund, you will get a below average player who won’t require a big salary and will be a loser.sund is your problem point blank. why is he still with the hawks? he’s knows nothing about basketball

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Actual efficiency, that is, not NBA.com’s fantasy stat.

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I admit I am a little biased against Evans because he has killed my fantasy team’s percentages the last two seasons, but why are people infatuated with him? He can’t shoot, his free throw attempts have dropped every year he’s been in the league, he’s a high-turnover player who doesn’t clearly fit at either PG, SG, or SF, and if rumors are to be believed, he apparently has a hard time sacrificing his game for his teammates.

Maybe he improves with a change of scenery, who knows, but right now he is well on track to be a guy who puts up big counting stats on bad teams for the rest of his career.

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I would do Joe for Evans + the #5 with the goal of a) shedding Joe’s contract which is imperative if this team wants to improve and b) trading Evans to someone else for more assets, but I don’t see Evans as a building block for a good team.

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“Does anybody on the Hawks staff use Synergy?”

Does Rick Sund even know how to use a computer?

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if rick sund returns, the franchise will go backward. if he was black, he would have been long gone by now. larry drew should be gone also. but it’s about saving money instead of winning with the hawks

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Najeh, for me its not more so Evans being a star or anything, its the fact that no matter how you put it he upgrades the starting line up over Marvin. Evans does a great job of getting to the line. And Joe and Teague are both good spot up shooters, something Evans haven’t had while in Sac. Also Evans is an EXCELLENT rebounding guard. Then when you factor in the slight chance of drafting another starter and possible high impact player with the 5th pick, you have a situation where it seems the Hawks is taking a minimum risk by trading for that package.

Imuswrite- We totally disagree. In a BASKETBALL TOWN, Joe is a ticket seller to basketball fans. In a SUPERSTAR TRENDING TOWN, like Atlanta, Joe is nothing but a bore. In a city like Sacramento or Milwaukee, a 6 time all star (and what 2 guards in the West would end that streak if Joe was there), would bring more fans to the arena. And Sac could definitely see Joe and Cousins pairing up to make a pretty decent inside/out combo. When Sac traded for Webber, everyone said Webber wasn’t a winner and had a terrible attitude.

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OB,

Even if Drummond is not there at #5, Hawks could trade down and draft another center prospect like Zeller/Leonard, or they could take the best player available then draft a center at #23 like Melo or the big guy from Vandy.
I think the Hawks need to acquire as many assets as possible then decide who to keep going forward then use the other assets to improve the area of need.
The #5 pick or Evans doesn’t have to remain with the team long term but as long as they are flip for assets to help build this team to a championship level. Similar to what OKC did with Jeff Green.
Hawks need to consider chess moves not checkers.

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Melvin, yeah, I was thinking about him as a 2nd rounder. Some college players are “victims” of the system they play in. It seems that Georgetown players (in the past few years, not going back to their great era) are under-valued because no single player is featured in their offense. So it seems like that school may produce a few “sleepers” worth checking out. What I’ve noticed is that most players (as long as they have good form on their jumper) can become at least average jump shooters in time. It is all of the other stuff (defensive awareness, agility, athleticism, IQ, etc.) that doesn’t seem as easy to develop as a pro. That’s why I’ve been suggesting to find a wing player with a good stroke, above average athleticism and a demonstrated ability to play hard-nosed defense. In time, that kind of guy could develop into our version of Afflalo, Thabo or Battier. It won’t happen overnight, but it could happen fairly quickly as they work on burying the spot-up 3 pointer. But again, it all starts with above average athleticism and the proven desire to shut down the opposing player.

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Najeh,

Look as if Ramon beat me to a rebuttal for Evans. Sac tried to play Evans at PG (similar to what the Hawks tried to do with Joe) and that’s not his natural position. He’s a SG that can play some mins at SF depending on the matchups. His numbers declined b/c his 2nd year the team added Cousins to the roster. Then midway thru the 2nd year, the team added Thronton to the roster. Both of those guys have taken the ball and shots away from Evans. Those 3 guys didn’t have the best of chemistry which got the coach fired (maybe unfairly). With the Hawks, he would be a guy who can create his own shot, another ball handler and not rely on jumpers. All are areas of weakest for the Hawks. Hopefully, he could convince his brother Reggie Evans to sign with the Hawks as well…

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Before you guys just assume that the Lakers will take Joe’s awful contract, you need to check out the new rules for the luxury tax this year. Most specifically, the escalations at every $5M over, and the penalties for repeat offenders, which the Lakers most certainly are.

If the Lakers hold their salary and use the Odom trade exception to add a $9M player, that player will actually cost them $38M this year. $4.25 in luxury tax for every dollar spent!!!

This is also why the Hawks will absolutely not flirt with the tax again this year.

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Just Joe – And a team like Miami, with 3 Max guys, and Anthony, Battier, Haslem, and Miller at mid-levels, and Chalmers making a chunk also, are in major luxury tax for the forseeable future.

Scenario: The Heat lose to the Thunder this year. Very likely.

The Heat spend like crazy – 1 more Mid-level (mini is all they can use) to obtain the best big out there, and draft a couple more bigs.

They lose to the Thunder again next season. Again, very likely.

I think LeBron opts out and tries to go back to the cap friendly Cavs, who have Irving, Thompson, and this years lottery pick still on rookie contracts, and tries to lead them to a Championship, rather than staying on what would then be a sinking ship called the Heat.

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Just Joe, that is also why Cuban traded away Chandler to get Lamar who has an easy buyout clause. Even Cuban isn’t willing to pay the luxury tax in the coming seasons. So he took a bad hit last year to free up enough room to get Deron Williams, and then he will likely have to go the minimum salary route with Dirk & Deron as the new core of his franchise. Even Jason Terry may have to take a pay cut to stick around (I think he also has a buyout option next season).

IMO, the team that would be most willing to tka eon Joe’s contract are the teams that need the stability Joe provides to get them over some hump they haven’t been able to climb previously. A team like the T’Wolves, who could get in the postseason with a healthy Love, Rubio and Joe. Or a team like the Warriors who have to consider that Curry may not be the reliable 18+/night scorer due to injury concerns. Or a team like Rockets who can’t get over the “very average” moniker (too good to get a great draft pick and not good enough to get to the 2nd round0.

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AJ – That’s why I’m thinking the Cavs would be a perfect fit for JJ also. But I don’t want him in the East either.

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SteveW, I don’t think theres a team in the Lottery that you could trade Josh for, because I don’t see him re-signing with either of those teams you would consider. Maybe Portland, but that’s about it.

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I still think the Clippers are the best fit for Joe and the most likely team to trade for him. The problem is finding $18 million worth of expiring contracts on that roster to take back.

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Yeah, I’m on record as saying Taylor in the 1st round & Sims in the 2nd round. But it could be flipped, if there is a better “project” center in the 1st round and Hollis in the 2nd round. I just would prefer leaving draft day with a guy ready to contribute defensively on the wing from the start of camp and a center who can be groomed to replace Zaza for the ‘12-13 season.

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Ra’mon – You know, GSW was willing to trade for Dwight on a rental – maybe they would Josh also

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Najeh – I know what you mean – would have to be an awful lot of fence mending for that to happen. But LeBron may desire that homer moniker.

Or maybe he opts out and goes to the Lakers or Knicks. Maybe more likely. I can’t see him staying in an impossible situation, which is what Miami will gradually become.

Miller, Haslem on horrid contracts. And amnestying doesn’t help, because if your over the cap and luxury tax, you can’t sign more than a mini-mid. Battier aging, same with Anthony. 1st picks traded away to the Cavs in 2013 and 15 probably (some leeway on the Cavs part there I think). DWade breaking down.

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Melvin, I would do Joe for Granger. I’m pretty sure Granger has 2 years left on his deal. Again, another example of finding a player to help the Hawks “tread water” and keep revenues fairly consistent.

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Miami’s got over 78 mill in committed salaries next season. They’ve got Miller, Anthony and Haslem for 3 more years – the last years are player options. James Jones and Battier for 2 more seasons. Chalmers for 1 and then a Team option, same with Cole.

They’ve got some bad contracts.

And most everybody is getting raises every season – they’ve got over 75 mill committed for the 2014/15 season at this point.

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SteveW

June 14th, 2012
9:00 am

I don’t know if the Cavs can absorb his salary (last I checked, the Cavs were in incredible cap friendly position), but I’ve thought if you wanted to ditch JJ – The Cavs #24, 33 and 34 picks for JJ puts us in an awesome cap perspective – Convince Josh to stay, and your still sitting pretty.

Josh 16 m
Al 12 m
Teague 6 m
ZaZa 6 m
Ivan 2 m

That’s 42 m – And you’ve got room for a max FA to go with that core. And some good young draft picks as filler on the cheap with picks #23, 24, 33, 34, 43 in this draft.

And assuming we can dump Marvin. Ugh.

*************************

True.

Now here’s the million dollar question. What Max free agent would come here, or sign an offer sheet?

For example, if the Hawks offered James Harden a max level contract ( 13 mill in 1st year ) . . and Brooklyn and the Celtics did the same, who doe James Harden sign with? If he signs with us, that’s an instant upgrade over JJ. If he doesn’t, now we’re moving down to the next guy . . until we find somebody that will sign with us.

Or ownership will just say that we’re going to stay under the salary cap for a while, in order to save money.

This organization can’t mess this Josh Smith situation up. If they just let him walk, the fans will never forgive them. If they trade JJ for scraps and future cap space, and that doesn’t materialize in us getting a guy that will help us, the fans won’t show up at the arena to watch Josh – Al – Teague.

GET IT RIGHT ASG.

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BIG DOG

June 14th, 2012
9:09 am

Lakers Gasol for Joe

Session, Kobe, Joe, World, Bynum

Lakers will except this trade and work for both team with Joe and Gasol being almost the same age.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

********************

They want to get younger and more athletic . . and get some relief money wise.

So you’re for JJ for Gasol . . . but are you for Josh + Marvin for Gasol?

Hawks: Teague – 1st round pick – JJ – Horford – Gasol

Lakers: Sessions – Kobe – World – Smith – Bynum

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I would trade All Whatever for Evans and the # 5 pick, then draft Andrew Nicholson in a heartbeat! Just saying!

Andrew is a ton more polished and talented on offense than any Big the Hawks have RIGHT NOW!

He will get buckets……

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Najeh,

We have seen players benefit from a change of scenery (plus he would be closer to Kentucky), better team culture, and winning. Maybe Evans could be one of those players. And if it doesn’t work out, his contract expires next year.

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Looking at this draft the Hawks need a Center so we can move Al Hoford to the PF position…..I do not want to see us get another forward 6-9

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IMHO, the play of the year thus far:

Lebron at the 22.5 ft mark, beyond the top of the key straight up sizing up Durant defending him..
Lebron crosses Durant over on his lighting quick 1st step, he cuffs the ball as he is fouled[no call of course] by Durant while entering the paint area, as he beats Durant he explodes above the rim on the 2nd step as Kendrick Perkins attempts to block the shot.Lebron rises above Perkins and posterizes him!

The athletic ability to do that is off the charts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats why I call him WiltJr…Dam….

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Andrew would replace All at the 4! Josh moves to the 3 and resigns..ZaZa is our starting 5!

Our front line of Josh, Andrew, and ZaZa is pretty dangerous in the East…

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Melvin

My post @ 12:48 am was in response to a query from AJ:

‘`Grandad, I just noticed that Henry Sims
is not even projected to be drafted in the 2nd round
by DraftExpress. How is that possible? `’

AJ proceded to laud his accomplishments
much like you just did.

My response; was to his question only.
I provided commentary that I have read.
Whether or not I agree is irrelevent but whatever the people
who are making the decisions to draft think is what matters.

I have made a similar point to yours that accomplishment
should be weighed against porential.
Yes, I do think measurement data has it`s place.
However, watching film and viewing the individual workouts
outweigh other data.

Example:
Andrew Nicholson – did not test well athletically.
But it`s undeniable the kid is a basketball player.

That`s why trying to pigeon-hole certain players is wrong.

Another example:
Jae Crowder – 6-4.5 = shooting guard size.
-It doesn`t matter-
This kid from Villa Rica, Ga. can play !
Big East player of the yr.
Not to mention strongest player at the combine !
* How do you measure this kid`s heart ?

So, Melvin, I hope I`ve given you a little better insight
into my eval. process.

Respectfully,
G-dad

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ISO Joe is coming back better than ever..Stay tuned!

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To be clear I have no idea if there is a player available at #5 who actually will be a building block on a championship contender. I am just saying that pick has a lot of value if there is. Considering how untradeable Joe is and what a huge obstacle his contract is to any rebuilding effort, I am in favor of any trade that gets rid of him without taking on massive amounts of salary. This team plainly and simply will not become a championship contender as long as he is taking up a quarter of the salary cap.

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“Najeh, on the Clippers, would you take Butler and Bledsoe and their 2nd round draft pick for Joe? Throw in Mo Williams in that deal as well as we have depth in the backcourt and Mo is a 1 year playa.

Butler fills the 3, Josh and Al up front until we move one of them….not so bad.

That wouldn’t be so bad IMO. Bledsoe would have to step up big time and we end up with a small backcourt in the interim. ”

I don’t mind that at all. I am a little hesitant about having to pay Butler for two more seasons, since the whole point of trading Joe is to clear cap room, but Bledsoe is a very good young player, Mo Williams expires, and it may be possible to move Butler to a contender and acquire more picks and cap space if he is healthy.

That would leave you with Teague, Josh, and Al as your nucleus, with Bledsoe and whatever you get for Butler as potential trade assets.

“But do the Clips see CP3, Blake, Joe and DJordan as their nucleus?”

I don’t think it would take too much to convince them that Joe is the missing piece to put them over the top. They were weak all season at 2 guard. CP3’s contract expires after next season and if he doesn’t see that they are making moves to win a championship he could very easily leave. It would be a major financial gamble on their part, but if they think adding Joe can make them title contenders, they will do it.

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Conversely, JJ shoots 53% on his post ups . . but that only represents 12% of his possessions.

So post ups from 15 feet at the end of games isn’t an option, but JJ from 25 feet in an ISO situation is?

Come on Drew. Get a hold to your team man. Take Hubie Brown’s advice, and see where your players score the basketball most efficiency, and try to increase their shot attempts from that area.

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“That means trading everybody then Najeh. No sense even keeping Teague and Horford around either, if that’s your thought process. Because we need to be as bad as possible to get that “hope” draft pick that you want.

5 years of futility then, unless we get a top 20 of all time player in the draft who becomes a superstar immediately.”

That’s fine with me. In fact, preferably, that top 20 all time player doesn’t become a superstar immediately, so that they can suck for a couple more years and get him a Westbrook and a Harden.

“I wonder how many of these posters would still follow the Hawks if we traded everybody off?”

If High-sider can stick around after Jamal got traded, I’m sure the rest of us can stick around after our respective favorite players get traded. I am more concerned about T-S, who will have nothing to write about if they get rid of Horford.

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^that should say “after Jamal left as a free agent” obviously

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2 draft updates:

1)Charlotte doesn’t like the so-called best players at 2, so they are now thinking Harrison Barnes if they can’t deal the pick.
MJ, have you rang Rick Sund yet?

2)2nd Sac-town rumor today: They won’t take that chance on Drummond at 5 since they have Cousins……I bet they want Beal if he slides that far.

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My guess is MJ is willing to move down a few slots (but stay in the top 10) but he may not find many takers. Some drafts have more than one franchise type player and others do not. I would take the almost certain production of Robinson, myself.

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I see no hope, when’s the interview with Stack coming now that we’re done with Damp & Collins?

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Think about what we could do with a 12 million dollar trade exception. 4 times more than we did with the 3 million dollar one = NOTHING!

We need the GM decision ASAP to at least give us a course, right now we’re just stuck in the summe of sameness!

Gearon shapes the team’s strategy and he is still around 9probably out-of-town, but still around). Sund executes the strategy. It wouldn’t shock me if they take the Fournier kid and keep him in Europe. They use the pick without spending a penny on his salary next season.

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Does this really matter? Atlanta Spirit Group is running the team; if you get drafted by this team, might as well consider changing careers, because you’ll never go anywhere with this ownership group. BOYCOTT ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP!!! BELIEVE IN BLUELAND!!!

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“It wouldn’t shock me if they take the Fournier kid and keep him in Europe.”

Fournier has let teams know he plans to play in the NBA next season. He’s not a draft-and-stash player.

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Wow Steve T thats alot of picks The Gm in N.O must be Billy Knight. I may be in the minority but I dont see Anthony davis being a starin this league. he is Donyell Marshall without the jumshot. That man is rail thin,who is he gonna gaurd in the post…DH12, Bynum, Blake Griffin- Those guys are gonna eat that mans lunch. he is too light in the pants right now. I would have taken the 4 picks……

Anthony Davis ceiling is Marcus Camby

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Royce White

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdYRh5oEJ4U&feature=related

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I MUS

Before you leave

Who is Sism ?

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Moving Al and Marvin for Gasol, Bynum or D12 is all we need to do. Moving Al and Marvin clears up about 20mil. Then we can have our own lethal weapon III

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Oh NO, ‘Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde’, Royce White looks like another Josh Smith. A SF/PF who is on the court playing every body else’s position. In that youtube clip, I see him getting a rebound and running up the court several times instead of handing off to a PG.

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I dont want a 6′10″ PF who cant dribble worth a dam” – see Al Horford..

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OK MajikMan we will through in Sund and a second round to go with Al and Marv. Howards leaving you guys anyway so you wont get anything if you are mindful.

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You lie Majik. Atlanta was already in the process of trading Al for D12 almost straight up before Al injured his self to prevent the injury.

Hey majikman is Jerry Sandusky really your father?

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“…If High-sider can stick around after Jamal got traded, I’m sure the rest of us can stick around after our respective favorite players get traded. I am more concerned about T-S, who will have nothing to write about if they get rid of Horford.” – Najeh Davenpoop

I’m almost done – sticking around [this blog], that is. [LOL]

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He we go game two doc! A must win for WiltJr Sir..

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That pepsie commercial is hilarious!

That baller looks about 75 years old! The ole guy gets buckets!!!! LMAO!

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Majik Sundusky you make some sense… not much but some. In fact. everything you say makes sense….

If you dont think about it.

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Keep hoggin’ [and brickin'], “Westbrick.” Perkins, keep channeling your inner Moses Malone. These two [Westbrook and Perkins] are “playing [right] into the Heat’s hands.”

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Miami off to a terrific start! 13-2 start! Owning the paint! Can they keep it up?

Westbrook just keeps shooting and missing..Wow…

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16-2 doc!

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18-2 doc!

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The Heat should have a 20+ point lead right now.

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If Miami keeps this up, it will be a 25 point lead very soon..Sending a message? Hmmmmm

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OKC shooting 5-20 in the 1st Qtr! Ouch!

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Don’t get too excited slimjr. The Spurs had us down 18 and we came back and won. These boyz are bad to da’ bone.

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Durant: 2-7 from the field, 4pts

Westbrook: 1-8 from the field, 3pts

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Bosh blows a layup right before halftime. [smh]. Y’all talk about Gasol being soft. Bosh is the “soft” big man in the NBA.

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Hey Thunder that has been true but like Michael Wilborn said at halftime, not tonight Sir..

Miami evens it up! Wade appears to have found his groove…Look out Thunder Fans….lol

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Slimj here watching. Big hole for okc after terrible call to give Miami a basket instead of sending it the other way with a chance to cut it ti six. Next thing down 17. Funny the ref missed the call twice, the first block then a second block on a ball coming off the backboard on the way down.

Anyway Miami is taking what stern gives them. Catch the interview with Rome. Man the guy is an a-hole.

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I hear ya doc… The Chief Gangster loves himself big time…Hehehe

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Slimj here watching. Big hole for okc after terrible call to give Miami a basket instead of sending it the other way with a chance to cut it ti six. Next thing down 17. Funny the ref missed the call twice, the first block then a second block on a ball coming off the backboard on the way down.

Anyway Miami is taking what stern gives them. Catch the interview with Rome. Man the guy is an a-hole.

There goes another help call.

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Ratings= Jackpot…

doc, the Chief wants 7 games….lol

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Bosh is scared, has bad hands.

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5 on Durant! With 10 30 left! Its a wrap..

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Good call ref..Was a O on Harden!

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Man Durant aint no joke..What a dunk on Shane…Nice..

He cut the lead to 8 in a blink of an eye…..Whew…

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Chalmers, you’re screwin’ up. LBJ, you can’t leave Durant aka Iceberg Slim; he’s [Durant] a deadly [pure] shooter.

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JVG should just wear and Heat jersey with the refs.

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Good eye H-S!

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Thanks, Slimjr.

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Heat can’t close because of poor coaching.

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Durant missed that clutch shot from 5 feet? Wow

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LBJ got away with a foul but this late in the game I think the refs want the players to decide the outcome.

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doc you got to admit those no calls for Lebron goes both ways.. Durant has been fouling too? Right? lol

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[The] Heat escape with a [Game 2] road victory. Coach Spo’, you suck. The game should have never been this close. LBJ, you hit two clutch free throws – good job.

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Yea doc the men in stripes are going to let the superstars play thru the bumps and holds at the end?

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Lebron shoots 12-12 from the line! Mr Clutch tonight?

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Two big no calls for OKC. No call on Sefolasha shot and no call on Durant shot… The refs were not going to let OKC win. Plain and simple…

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“Westbrick” took more shots than Durant in Games 1 and 2 of the 2012 NBA Finals. Scott Brooks, you need your ass kicked. Durant, the NBA’s leading scorer for three consecutive years, has less shot attempts than a ball-chucking two-guard masquerading as a point guard after the first two game of the NBA Finals. And you, Scott Brooks, were COY [Coach of the Year] a couple of years ago. Are you, Coach Brooks, afraid to get into “Westbrick”’s ass? What’s wrong with you, Coach Brooks? Are the inmates, specifically “Westbrick” and Moses Malone, not 2.0, but 0.2 [Perkins], running the asylum and prison? LMAO

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The hawks better get a center. Fab Melo or Festus Ezeli.

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Jamal Crawford is officially an unrestricted free agent. Would he sign a 3-yr $9M deal to return to the Hawks (3rd yr is a mutual option/both sides have to agree for him to stay)? This is where he’s had the most success. Anyone think he will find $5M a year again like he did in Portland. His minutes per game dropped under 30. His FG% was the lowest since his rookie year. He’s never shot worse from 3. 32 yrs old. There are a handful of free agent SG’s available this offseason as well (Mayo, Gordon, Allen, Young, Smith, Fields, L. Williams, Lee, Fernandez, etc…).

I would want him back at that price. He fills a definite need as a scorer off the bench. I’m a little afraid about how LD will use him though (give him 20 minutes a night at the PG spot???). If used correctly, he’s a valuable asset.

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2 missed calls at the end of the game (both against Lebron). Imagine that. He fouled Durant twice on that shot attempt, and he also fouled Westbrook going for that rebound.

Melvin,

Bad Westbrook showed up in the first half. He was 2-10, and some of his shots looked forced. I don’t understand why he doesn’t consistently try and get KD and others going in the first half, because that opens things up even more for him in the second half.

Magic Johnson said that Westbrook’s first half was some of the worst PG play he had had seen in the finals. I don’t think it was as bad as Magic made him out to be, but that is why I am not sold on Westbrook (despite a very good assist:turnover ratio these 2 games).

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Mike Mazzeo | Special to ESPNNewYork.com

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Brooklyn Nets small forward Gerald Wallace has opted out of the final year of his contract, according to multiple reports.

Wallace had until midnight ET Wednesday to decide on his $9.5 million player option for 2012-13.

Nets Blog

Looking for more information on the Nets? ESPNNewYork.com has you covered. Blog

Wallace now becomes an unrestricted free agent. He had said he wasn’t going to play on a one-year deal.

General manager Billy King said Wallace deserves a multiyear deal and wants to re-sign him.

Wallace, 29, averaged 15.2 points, 6.8 rebounds and 3.1 assists in 16 games after being traded to the Nets.

King dealt his team’s first-round pick in the 2012 draft (No. 6) to the Portland Trail Blazers in a highly scrutinized move for Wallace.

Mike Mazzeo is a regular contributor for ESPNNewYork.com.

I say try to get him as their starting SF, bring Jamal back or sign Mayo or Fernandez and pick up a big man.

Tegue/Hinrich/Pargo
JJ/JC or Mayo/W Green
Wallace/Gordon Hayward
Favors/Ivan
Al/Zaza/Collins/Dampier

Wishful thinking though!

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“Would he sign a 3-yr $9M deal to return to the Hawks”

JJ, I don’t think I would cross that path again. JC1 isn’t changing or isn’t better than he was when he left here.

I would go see if I could grab a James Jones from the Heat for a 2nd rounder….1.5M and he will do as much as JC1 would do for us.

Plus, Sund or his protege won’t be paying over the vet min to bring guys in. The money isn’t there while our 3 captains are here. That has to be addressed first if it even will be.

Improve the starting lineup with 1 or 2 changes, or we will be dangling on the brink of 1st round elimination once again.

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