Atlanta Hawks: Elite talent, not ‘Detroit model,’ still best path to title

Also, hard to use events that happened in the pre-salary cap, pre-millionaire era of basketball as precedent for what can or will happen now. Julius Erving and Moses Malone’s NBA was very different from the current NBA.

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Whats wrong with this picture?
Lebron James, Paul Pierce, Carmelo Anthony, Danny Granger, Iggy, MARVIN WILLIAMS.
Something just doesnt look right. And this is just in the EAST.

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So, when do the Horford and Smith for Howard rumors begin, again?

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If the Hawks traded to get a superstar player, that player would be on the downturn of his career. And besides the Hawks franchise, the city of Atlanta is not attractive for high caliber NBA talent. In the last 30 years, Dominique Wilkins is the only undeniable superstar to play in his prime for this franchise. Do I wish the Hawks could have had better luck or just better judgement when we had high draft picks, yes. The draft is where the Hawks will get its “superstar”. But even if the Hawks did draft Chris Paul, whose to say he wouldn’t have wanted to leave Atlanta, the same way he left NO.

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This article just emphasizes how hard it is to maintain parity in the NBA, compared with the other major sports leagues. Before every season there are, at best, 5-7 teams that have a realistic shot at contending for a championship. That is a problem, and one that I don’t have an easy fix for.

Did anyone have the football Giants or the baseball Cardinals as top ten teams prior to their championship seasons? Probably not.

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Horford and Williams for Howard. Josh is off limits and a possible top 15 player next year if LD stops putting him at the perimeter!!

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“The Hawks tried to do build a contender the way the Thunder have done it. They executed the first part of the plan by getting bad enough to get a chance at a high draft pick and lucky enough to land one. The second and most important part, drafting the right players, didn’t go so well”

Ok MC, is Sund telling you we’re doing now going to do it the OKC way?
Does Sund have any idea who he’s trying to model after?
We have been building this thing since the signing of Joe Johnson. We’re now heading into Year 8 of the Joe Johnson regime and frankly, Joe is the only one who has gotten something out of these 8 years of basketball in Atlanta.

So model us after the team that fired you to do it a successful way, huh Rick? Now I see how you’ve lasted 33 years. You keep following someone else’s model instead of building your own.

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@MC how come y’all never point out that LD play calling is what’s keeping Josh on the perimeter rather than in the post

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And what is more crazy is that the Hawks beat the Thunder this year without Joe and Horford……!

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“OK, so if you are one of the 20-something teams that don’t have a top 10 talent, what do you do?”

You give it one more run with this core as Lang Green’s chat makes it very clear the Hawks intend to do. As MC said, the team’s chances of advancing were legitimately hurt by injuries (never mind all the injuries to the Celtics). Keep it together until the trade deadline. If the Hawks are in the top 3 in the conference and Josh is not making noise about being unhappy, maybe you keep him through the end of the season.

The Hawks’ chances next year will be aided by Derrick Rose’s injury and who knows? Maybe Josh, Al and Teague will have monster seasons and Joe will play as a spot-up shooter instead of a ball stopper and the Hawks will make a run. Next offseason Josh is gone, Zaza is gone. The Hawks will have one more season with Teague on a qualifying offer. At that point, if you didn’t get anything for Josh and you didn’t convince him to stay (and Zaza happily took his talents to a team that didn’t think he should be behind Josh Powell in the rotation), it’s time to blow it up.

At that point, you Amnesty Joe Johnson, not with the intention of paying someone to take his place and thus paying twice, but with the intention of letting his salary count toward the minimum salary floor so that you can tank with supreme efficiency. The Hawks will not be required to add players to meet the minimum salary since Joe’s salary will count toward the salary floor. That’s when the Hawks will have the opportunity to tank and get really bad and get high draft picks.

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MC,

I have to agreed and disagreed on this one. I agreed that Elite talent maybe is the best path to title but here is the thing, you got many cities that isnt blessed with good management like OKC, Spurs,or C’s or deep pockets or anything like that, like Toronto and Bucks of the NBA and Draft is a 50/50 or 25/25/25/25, so its a crap shoot. See how many teams that want to trade out of their picks this draft.

I think that “Detroit” Model still can work if you had these things
- A Head Coach that is willing to evolve and get 110% of his players in every contest and demands respect
- A core that knows their roles and play it to perfection, they dont try to be something that they are not.
- A bench that is dependable and able to keep you in the game.

The reason why Spurs loss because they finally broke down and OKC found their second wind.

For the Hawks, right now they need to the path that is the best for them and to raise the bar of what they want to accomplish. You have proven that you are one of the top teams in regular season and you can get to the 2nd round of playoff but they need to be more hungry to get to the Final. ECF isnt the final destination, once they realize that and play for that with the right part, they will get there.

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Buddy,

I dont know, we have been running the “core” for years, what is going to be the difference between then they are full health and when they are not. The core needs to tweak up in way, some way.

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The ‘Detroit model’ might have worked for this team if it had drafted a PG (C Paul or D Williams) instead of Marvin and anyone with a pulse other than Shelden Williams….

Chris Paul/Brandon Roy/Joe Johnson/Josh/Horford would have been an interesting assembled team here….

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KevinM great post. we could not get any of those guys because we dont have the kahunas to make a franchise altering move. we(asg) seem to be content with saying we made the playoffs and state that only us and bos/lal are the only three teams over the past 5 years blah blahdid our job of getting there.
Im excited that josh will be traded even though i want him to stay. i think a big move we could do would be if bos loses saturday to try a sign and trade deal with bos for KG giving up josh smith. KG 2 year 20 mill deal. I love how KG doesnt let anyone on the team give less than 100% and i think we could get a 1st from BOS as well. KG could play C/PF with AL doing the same with different matchups, i dont think any team would have more energy with their bigmen then us.KG would be someone that could turn joe into a more expressive player and ultimatley make us more accountable with our passion night in night out.

dont forget that we have two picks and if we can get some good logical choices we have a good start to the offseason.

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Sautee, considering some of the coverage this team gets, I’m not feeling the beat writer offering up this viewpoint. I’d rather see hime use his time to investigate (or suggest) how this team can improve this summer, not offer up a “no hope” view of the situation. In some ways, it comes across as sour grapes after going from the Heat (and wondering what it might be like to be covering that team now) to the Hawks.

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Highest body fat – Texas guard J’Covan Brown, 12.5 percent.
OSU guard William Buford, 11.3 percent
Jared Sullinger’s body fat is a not so good 10.7 percent.

On flip side, Terrence Ross’s is a measly 3.2 percent.

Yeah, Rick’s draft board probably has Sullinger in his sights now….PF extraordinaire.

Draft, Jared Sullinger, Terrence Ross

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Well I guess another season of the core is on the way.

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So if Defense and Rebounding are the keys to winning, why is the worst rebounding team in the League (Boston) still playing?

If Defense and Rebounding are the keys to winning, why isn’t Chicago still playing, sans Rose? Still had a great defensive and rebounding unit.

I know the answers, just wanted to know what ya’ll thought.

Think Coach Thibodeau could have used Jamal? Great D, but they couldn’t throw the ball in the ocean w/o Rose.

OB – You asked about Brand. I’d have to know how Philly would use the money, and what their intentions were.

But I do know Philly had exactly zero low block presence outside of Brand in the playoffs – and he was extremely valuable to them for that reason during the postseason.

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ITS NOW THAT SUPERSTAR PLAYERS DON’T LIKE THE “A”.

Its the hawks franchise, the ownership,the gm, very poor ran franchise.

If Arthur Blanks bought the hawks tommorrow morning at 8am, by 5pm hawks ticket sales would go up 25 percent, just on an announcement that one day.

Its just that after 43yrs, of the samething every yr. it gets tired!!!!

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The reality is this:

6 players are under contract. 6.
Those 6 give us almost no room to sign FAs. No one wants to hear it but Josh Smith is our best trade asset and HAS to be traded this offseason for us to have any hope in the future.

IF the front office would use the amnesty option on Joe or Marvin (preferably Joe) then boom suddenly we’d have the ability to climb out of the hole instead of watching the team dig itself deeper into one.

For an organization that wants to use the “Detroit” model and seems so reluctent to want to spend over the cap, they sure as heck aren’t good at either of those efforts.

Building from within only works when you keep draft picks and young talent and develop that talent by allowing them to play.

I wonder if the Hawks have even worked out any of the players in the draft. Oh wait, why do that when you’re probably going to trade the pick/player or even worse and not give the player a chance when they get here.

Such ineptitude.

Thanks MC for the article!

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For you doc:

“LeBron, he had a game. He had a game.” — 16-year NBA veteran Ray Allen

“In Game 6′s first three quarters, of which he played every second, LeBron James took 26 shots and missed seven. He was a human hydrogen bomb, capable of detonating himself multiple times—even though, just like a real hydrogen bomb, to drop it once is more than enough. At halftime, James had relegated his arch-nemesis Celtics to a minute community scurrying to rebuild their devastated village. Every time a brick was laid, another bomb was dropped. Then another. And another. And another.

From the strategist’s bunker of a living room couch, I’m sure many fans were wondering why Boston didn’t just double the man. Throw as many defenders at him as humanly possible, and force Miami’s supporting cast to prevent a historically embarrassing playoff loss. Here are three reasons, both general and hyper-tuned to Game 6 specifically, why that might not be the best strategy when dealing with a player as naturally gifted as LeBron James.”

-more to follow-

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MC

Is there any news on Sund?

Have the Hawks even talked to any draft prospects?

Thanks in advance!

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We had our chance to be just like the Thunder, but we blew it. (Chills(2004), Marv(2005), Shellhead(2006). That couldve been Iggy, Josh Smith(2004), CP3(2005), and B.Roy or Rudy Gay in 2006.

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It’s very fustrating be a HAWK fan, but we’re no different than most teams in the league.

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No need to go after Joe way back when, if we could get our freakin draft picks right. idiots

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Sautee
June 8th, 2012
4:56 pm

“The franchise often seems more preoccupied with dinging its critics and demanding credit for its successes (and there are many) than raising the bar.”

Well put, Michael. Succinct and right on point.
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“Succinct and right on point”–perhaps. But “many successes”? Having a tough time swallowing that one. For sure, what successes the team has had haven’t been in the postseason, which is where they really matter.

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hawksfancents95
June 8th, 2012
6:28 pm

i know yall hate optimisim on here with this crap ownership but you know you will watch every game next year so i like to think positive and be wrong as oppose to being a pessimist and being right
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Your only hope in ATL is to be a pessimist and be wrong. Tried the ol’ optimist stuff for years. Never worked (except in ‘95), so resorted to pessimism (or “reality,” as I prefer to call it). Still waiting–and HOPING–to be wrong. No longer sure that it’ll happen in my lifetime.

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Najeh Davenpoop
June 8th, 2012
7:15 pm

If you are a fan of a have-not, you should recognize that you are SOL and have a nice summer. The teams that recognize this and act accordingly — like the Sonics in 2007 — give themselves a good chance at rising to the top. The teams that don’t — like the current Hawks — continue to be have-nots and afterthoughts.
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One important edit: Should read “like the current AND PAST Hawks . . . .”

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Will
June 8th, 2012
8:19 pm

For an organization that wants to use the “Detroit” model and seems so reluctent to want to spend over the cap, they sure as heck aren’t good at either of those efforts.
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Based on their history in ATL, they aren’t good at many other efforts either.

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The only hope going forward is that the ASG won’t be here after a year.

I’m at the point where its okay to extend Sund and LD to 5 years.

I’d love to hear whether the current season ticket holders are going to bite that apple one more time and attend 50 or so home games of the core as we know it?
The last time I had season tickets was 2001, when Gasol was selected and traded for Abdul-Rahim, the 20/10 machine. That worked out well for Lon Kruger didn’t it? The same year that Jason Collins and Joe Johnson were drafted. Ahh, the good ole days of Hawks basketball.

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I do not think the Hawks will make any major moves this offseason, even though they should. Trading Josh Smith seems like a no-brainer to me. He does not want to be here and will likely leave the Hawks at the end of the season. Why not trade him for a decent pick in this year’s draft? You get a shot at a good player, who will come cheap.

Another thing Michael should mention is that the ASG is content with just having a good team. I have heard Michael Gearon say as much on more than one occasion. He likes that this team will make the playoffs and have a shot at winning most of the games they play. That’s why he won’t break up this “core” group. It might lead to taking a step back in order to get a shot at improvement. They’re (the ASG) simply not going to endure the step back. So, get used to this team as constructed. For one more year, at least. Josh will leave at the season’s end. Who knows what happens from there?

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Ahhhh…..it’s new owners that The Hawks need!!

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When we are healthy the core still ain’t good enough to win a championship.

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Alex Kennedy (CNNsi) reports that Moultrie is the real deal. Kennedy said last night while all other prospects were out having fun, Moultrie was in a local gym going through an intense workout.

Guys, Moultrie’s measurements (used to be an SG/SF before a crazy growth spurt) are insane. I could see the Hawks drafting him, and using he, Josh, and Al in a three big line up, with Josh guarding the SF (Moultrie’s outside shot is pretty decent). A line up like that (Moultrie is extremely athletic) would allow the Hawks to switch even more for positions 2-5. This would give the Hawks a great advantage on guarding the most dangerous play in the league (P&R).

If Jordan will take Rudy Gay for the #2 pick. I wonder if he would trade that pick and a contract for Joe Johnson. Joe Johnson gives Charlotte an instant all star, and credibility. The Hawks would have a chance to get from under Johnson’s contract. I know Jordan may laugh the Hawks off of the phone. But its worth a try.

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Check out the “great “D”" of Kirk Hinrich in the following [video] clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txKdnGPmHVo&feature=related

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Drummond measured in at 6′9 3/4 without shoes (6′11 with shoes). And his vertical was 38 inches, while weighing 285 lbs. That’s way better than DeAndre Jordan. I think he will be a great defensive player and rebounder for years. I would trade Josh, Al, or Joe for him.

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Now if we can get rid of sorry as Al horford and Jeff what the fuc was that teague,then we can at least make progress in the right direction. I so tired of this experiment called Al Nowitski. horford. It aint working time to move away from the projects jeff and al and build around Josh with JJ complementing. I cant take 1 more year of this Al project.

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Where did I put my weed? Why is every one saying trade Al horford?

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Al horford makes me sick with that weak as game. you aint gonna win with that chett. Trade his as now!

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Detroit had an Hall of Fame bound Head Coach, not Woody, nor LD.

We were severely undermanned and still put up a good fight against Boston, who is proving to be a tough cookie.

If we had better coaching and all personnel, we would have had a genuine shot to be in the Finals this year.

Undermanned as we were BUT with quality coaching, ECF would have been perfectly feasible.

All those bad shots/possessions from Josh and JJ would be greatly reduced, instead of ISO-JJ we would have ISO-Teague which, any blind man can identify as a perfectly viable end of game play.

More, we would have T-Mac on the floor to close games ALL THE TIME.

Let’s not talk about roster models without first talking about who is on the bench.

LD is an enabler with some X’s and O’s, but he is weak and scared and I don’t care about the fact that he was and still will be on the last year of his contract.

Either you have balls or you don’t.

You would not go to war with guys like LD. At least, I wouldn’t.

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Josh is not coming back, why not trade something for him now if your the Hawks ?

Josh, D william, D 12 .

Word on the street Brooklyn will have there big 3 come 2013.

Trade Josh ASAP.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Lang Greene said Moultrie was his darkhouse pick as well – late first rounder that could be a solid player.

Waiters went home early, supposedly has a locked up offer at either #8 or #13, so no need to work out at the combine.

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Teague, Joe, ? , Horford, Lopez

DRAFT Terrence Jones or Jefferey Taylor plug right in at SF.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Not a fan of “blow it up”. I just don’t think it works. Did it work for Bulls? It did not, Curry and Chandler never helped the Bulls anywhere near a Championship. Lots of years of horrible basketball and probably short of anything worthy of it. It would only work if 2 things are true. Talent such as Lebron or Shaquille available.(Durant too maybe). And you have to be able to attract free agents.

Let’s face it. We could have paid Lebron same money but he did not want to play for ASG. if we got Lebron to play with Josh, Al, Teague I submit that we are as good or better than current Heat. No need to think about LD as Lebron would have demanded a better Coach by now. Phillips Arena would be packed every night and we would all wear Hawks jerseys to Church on Sunday.

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If any of you guys want make some big money call vegas ASAP

BRADLEY VS PACMAN.

Bradley will win this fight.

BIGDOG IN THE HOUSE

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Interesting note here: Sund is 3rd on a list of most spent money the past 5 years….and where has it gotten him?

(*) Via signing, sign-and-trade or exercised contract option in the last five seasons.

.CONTRACTS
Team Payroll added per year *
1. Pat Riley Miami $114,064,952
2. John Paxson Chicago $91,809,162
3. Rick Sund Atlanta $90,033,433
4. Masai Ujiri Denver $83,751,750
5. Otis Smith Orlando $78,518,915
6. Chris Wallace Memphis $76,131,263
7. David Kahn Minnesota $74,962,078
8. Mitch Kupchak LA Lakers $74,574,189
9. Glen Grunwald New York $73,185,448
10. Joe Dumars Detroit $71,051,640
11. Danny Ainge Boston $67,052,671
12. Sam Presti Oklahoma City $64,514,723

Just showing that we spend, but we don’t spend wisely. In the last 5 years, it has given us 2 2nd round wins.

I’d say Sund has made a few mistakes.

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Najeh and Northclyde and others have made some good points. Only problem I have with blowing it up is that it was done before and I do not trust the Hawks to make the right picks just like they did not make the correct picks the first time as has been well documented.

Also you have to be very lucky to make the right picks and hope that one of those picks is a franchise talent. It took OKC 5 years for them to get where they are today. Would Hawks fans be willing to wait 5 years for that even if it isnt a sure thing?

This was the Hawks records from 1999-2007

28-54
25-57
33-49
35-47
28-54
13-69
26-56
30-52

Are Hawks fans willing to wait that long to possibly get a franchise proven talent in the draft and build?I am not so sure Hawks fans would be willing to do that. Hawks would end up turning into franchises that has been bad for a long time and hasnt had winning seasons in quite some time such as the Wizards and the Timberwolves.

Interesting about the Celtics when they tanked games in trying to get Durant or Oden and they didnt after coming off of 2 losing seasons with Doc, they decided to make a trade to get Garnett and for Ray Allen while already having Pierce who was rumored to wanting to be traded and drafting Rondo.

My point being is that if the Hawks decide not to go the blowup route then what they should do is decide who to build the team around either Smith or Al or keep both and keep Teaque and build around them with better parts. This is is Smith wants to be here. If he doesnt than you try to move him. The first thing that would have to be if you decide to do that is find a taker for Johnson and Marvin Williams.

The Rudy Gay trade scenario isnt a bad one that some have mentioned around here. I just dont see unless you get new management that the Hawks fans want to wait for another 5-6 years to blow it up and start over and that I trust Hawks management to make the right picks again this time around.

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I guess the easiest solution Is to move Al “I wont play defense at power forward either” and his 12 pts 8 rbs for a center like Gasol or Bynum…. Dont count out a resurface of the Al for Dwight trade either.

Then Package teague and Marvin for DWillaims

Gasol
Smoove
JJ
Green
Williams

Or

Dwight H
Smoove
JJ
Green
Williams

or

Bynum
Smoove
JJ
Green
Williams

EITHER OF THESE TEAMS WHOOPS THAT STUPID AS CHIT LITTLE MUTT IS BARFING

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Miami traded up to get Norris Cole last season – he’s helped them a little this season – during the regular season anyway

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MC – The weird thing is just before you closed the last blog down, I almost said – “Forget the Detroit model, let’s build on the OKC model” – but after considering the arguments, I didn’t post it.

OKC hit on 3 Top 5 picks – now they’ve done a nice job building around them – but really that’s the end of the story.

NC – I know what you saying about fool’s gold – almost every prospect this season has 1 or more suspect parts of their game or physiology.

That said, I do thing there will be some very good players in this draft – deep draft pool

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Big Dog – I would want Lopez to rebound better before I commit to him.

BrigJerry – That’s my point – I don’t trust the Hawks, the lottery, nothing. Blow this thing up, and there’s no guarantee that in 10 years we won’t be worse.

Gotta look for an opening to tweak this thing – and maybe hit on a #21 pick that turns into Rondo or a 48 pick that turns into Marc Gasol – or a 22 pick who is Faried.

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Well we could amnesty Al for 13 million dollars in Cap space. We lose nothing that way and solve a lot of chemistry issues

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“If bos loses saturday to try a sign and trade deal with bos for KG giving up josh smith.”

KG is a UFA. He would have to agree to such a deal in advance once free agency begins. Do you think KG is going to agree to come to Atlanta?

“Bonner- oh my God, he was a failure in the Thunder series.”

Any team that has a coach with a pulse can neutralize Bonner. Against the Hawks… career night!

“I prefer to call it a “realistic” view of the situation. If the goal is a championship, this team has no hope of achieving that goal without a superstar. MC is absolutely right to point that out.”

/co-sign

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vava74
June 9th, 2012
4:47 am

We were severely undermanned and still put up a good fight against Boston, who is proving to be a tough cookie.
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A good fight? We lost twice as many games as they did in the series–including that Game 4 blowout. If that’s a good fight, then it’s obviously not nearly enough.

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brigadierjerry
June 9th, 2012
10:42 am

Najeh and Northclyde and others have made some good points. Only problem I have with blowing it up is that it was done before and I do not trust the Hawks to make the right picks just like they did not make the correct picks the first time as has been well documented.

Also you have to be very lucky to make the right picks and hope that one of those picks is a franchise talent. It took OKC 5 years for them to get where they are today. Would Hawks fans be willing to wait 5 years for that even if it isnt a sure thing?
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“Would the Hawks fans be willing to wait 5 years . . . .?”

Oh hell, why not? We’ve already waited 44 years–what’s another 5?

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MC: The Hawks are not being build on the Detroit model. They are calling it the Detroit model as an excuse for the failings and as a way to stall. There is no plan. There is no blueprint. We started this rebuilding using Billy Knight who was not a great GM at all. Who chose him? He was chosen because he was the cheapest GM available.

Now we have Sund who is not someone to take a team anywhere. The Hawks are simply drifting in salary cap ……

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Great Post. I totally agree with you her my friend.

DawgNole

June 9th, 2012
2:59 am

Al horford makes me sick with that weak as game. you aint gonna win with that chett. Trade his as now!

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I know there is a lot of trade talk swirling around Josh. Makes sense, with the contract entering its last year. But IMO that is just a way to get worse, start dumping assets and tanking. There could be some scenarios where a better – older – player gets traded to the hawks for Josh. I bet some contenders would love to get their hands on Josh. But it would be hard to get anything close to equal value for josh. He is truly the best player on the Hawks, someone who can fire the whole team up, and he’s going to get better. ATL needs to show Josh some love. The way to get better is to build around him. Find more players that play with passion and energy and run teams out of the building. I think if the hawks trade josh, it could come back to haunt them.

Obviously Joe’s contract puts severe limitations on the moves the team can make. The hawks brass was duped when they signed Joe to that contract. They were betting that he would get better. He had a couple seasons where he had to rest and heal from some injuries. My guess is they thought he would be able to come back stronger and more youthful. He put a lot of miles on his legs in his first 5 or 6 seasons, was definitely looking more fatigued. But MAYBE he would be rejuvenated if he played less minutes or took care of these nagging issues. Well, Joe did not come back stronger. He has gotten older and slowere every year. And it is going to get worse. He does not fit what the team wants to do offensively. I say the ony way to make the team is to move Joe at all costs. Find someone that wants him. Trade him for draft picks or a couple decent hound players. And move on. Don’t trade your tradeable assets right now because this guys ( josh and al ) play really well together. Give them a chance to take the league by the horns next season. Just get rid of slow man Joe. Draft a couple young energetic pieces, and let ‘er rip! It will be a more exciting team. You are not getting anything close to equal value for Joe. But that’s ok. This is the only way to move on and have a chance in the near future. Finding someone to take Joe needs to be the top offseason priority.

Just my two cents…

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I have said it all season long. The Atlanta Hawks need to draft “FABULOUS” Fab Melo. He has an Andrew Bynum type skill-set. In round 2 “Robert Sacre as your back-up center.”

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I hear so many people talk about getting rid of Josh or Al but the problem with this team is not them. The problem with this team is we ant score. We have no scorers on this team. That being said, we do have a pretty good defense and the removal of Josh and Al makes that even more susceptible. I believe that if we trade for a true scorer then josh will feel less like the team is on his back and he needs to score. We lost our only legit 3 point shooter last year when we lost Jamal, big mistake.

I propose we see if Ney York will list to a trade for Carmello for Joe. This would solve a problem in the club house for them and give us a scorer who all he wants to do is score. This might also relieve some stress on Josh to make bad shots in crunch time. Carmella had 27 ppg whereas joe had 17ppg. Next move is to trade Marvin for draft pick or picks. The salaries for Joe and Carmelo are about 300k different. This would free up about 20 mil in cap space to sign the rest of the team . Try to get josh to redo his contract and extend it and you might free up more.

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@ Najeh

You kmow more about basketball, and what it takes
to be a GM than Sund.

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The smartest guys on this blog is Steven A Smith, hands down. The rest of these Georgia “Morons”
do not know much about professional basketball.

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falCans

June 8th, 2012
5:21 pm

@MC how come y’all never point out that LD play calling is what’s keeping Josh on the perimeter rather than in the post

*********************************

People do point that out. But Josh is culpable in this as well.

Ivan Johnson plays PF and some C for the Hawks. In the regular season, he took 73 shots from 16+ feet. He took 275 shots total. So that means that 26.5% of his shots came from 16+ feet.

Compare that with Josh

499 shots from 16+ feet
1101 total shots taken
45.3% of his shots taken were from 16+ feet

Josh is 4 times a better player than Ivan. But Ivan’s mentality is more in line with how a PF should play. He’s going to be around the rim on the offensive end. He’s going to be in position to grab offensive rebounds. And he’s going to cut to the basket to possibly receive passes.

If we could put Ivan’s brain and demeanor and put it in Josh’s body, we’d have an All-Star and a potential All-NBA player playing at PF.

Instead, we have a very good PF whose basketball IQ on the offensive end will always be questioned, because of his shot selection.

So it is what it is.

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“Instead, we have a very good PF whose basketball IQ on the offensive end will always be questioned, because of his shot selection.”

It’s coaching that should be questioned. LD owes his position to “relationships with players.” Josh didn’t like Woody telling him he couldn’t shoot jumpers. The Hawks quit on Woody. LD got the job. LD can’t turn around and do what Woody did that caused the players to quit on him.

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Too easy to do the obvious.

- Call Kupchak and tell them that if he wants to make the Lakers more athletic, give us Pau Gasol and their 2013 1st round pick . . and we give them Josh Smith and Marvin Williams

- Hawks then use the draft to choose the best available player on the board ( hopefully it’s a wing player that can play either SG or SF )

Hawks would then have

Teague – 2.4 mill
JJ – 19.8 mill
1st round pick – 1 mill ( hopefully Jeff Taylor )
Gasol – 19 mill
Horford – 12 mill
Zaza – 5.2 mill

Hawks would then have 59.4 mill committed to 6 players.

Since the Hawks would only have to fill 7 more spots, that’s roughly 10 – 11 million to spend on 7 players.

- re-sign Ivan ( hopefully for league minimum, but don’t be afraid to give him a little more money or more years )

- sign 2 offensive minded vet players who could contribute
- sign 2 defensive minded vet players who could contribute
- sign 2 young guys who can watch and learn

PG – Teague / vet PG ( defender ) / young PG
G – Johnson / vet SG ( shooter )
F – Taylor / vet SF ( shooter/defender )
PG – Gasol / Ivan / young PF ( shot blocker/rebounder )
C – Horford / Zaza / vet C ( defender/rebounder )

Simple as that Sund.

Hawks tweak the mix of the team, while also staying at playoff level.

If it fails, you now have a 19 million trade chip in Pau Gasol to either bring in for draft picks or for multiple players.

If it works, Sund ( or whomever ) is NBA GM of the Year for making that move.

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brig, dawg-hole has no fresh ideas, nor is she a hawks fan… just a whiner and complainer who enjoys dissing everything about this team

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Hawks definitely need to find a better solution to SG/SF in this upcoming draft….with Joe now in his 30’s with skills starting to decline and assuming Josh stays put it would seem logical for hawks to slide Joe to SF and draft a SG ..Terrence Ross would be an ideal fit but most likely gone by the time we pick…

.if we trade Josh, I could see us get a scorer (higher draft pick) in return and then draft a center like Melo with our 23rd pick and move Horford to PF…

Jamal Crawford had a good two year run here but not sure he would have made a difference for us this season….he had an awful year in portland….

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NC – Lakers can’t give up a 1st rounder two straight years – Cleveland has theirs this season.

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SteveW,

1) Marvin is owed 2 years, $15.8 mil. Nobody wants him. Nobody.

2) As for Josh, I think he may take $14 mil from another team, but not from the ASG (especially if he has another all star worthy season next season).

Think about it. JJ is making $20 mil. Would you accept a contract paying you 30% less than the highest paid player, despite the fact that you are arguably the best player? imo, Josh will get closer to $16 mil per.

3) The OKC model was the Hawks model when they hired BK. He traded away contracts, and ended up with high picks (#2, #3, #5, #6, #11, #17). But we only got 2 of those picks right (Josh and Al). Compare that to OKC’s picks (#2, #3, #4, #24), and they got all 4 right.

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GREAT ARTICLE MR. CUNNINGHAM!!!!! YOU REALLY NAILED THIS ONE!!!!

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“Why can’t we move on past the Hinrich and Jamal discussion?”

We are past the Jamal discussion… at least, everybody but High-sider is. But I’m still waiting for High-sider and Rod from College Park to answer a simple question: Was playing Pargo in the 4th quarter of Game 3 and sitting Hinrich the correct call? Still waiting for an answer.

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OK, so here we go again:

In the recent playoff series against the Celtics, Kirk had the 6th most FGA on the team. He averaged 5 FGA / gm in the playoffs, scored 5.7 ppg shooting 43% from the field, and 37.5 % from 3.

The SIXTH most FGA on the team. I don’t think you are as obtuse as you are making out.

You realize full well that if Kirk is SIXTH in FGA, then scoring is low on his list of responsibilities, yet you harp on a scoreless game in a blowout loss, where if Kirk HAD scored his season average (or better) it would NOT have affected the outcome. SMGDH. Clueless.

Yet you continually post ad nauseum about your hero, who HAD responsibility for scoring and was a major failure in the last 4 games of the playoffs vs. CHI. Shall I post Jamal’s sterling numbers for those last 4 games? Why yes, I will, since you can’t let Hinrich’s flaws go.

In Jamal Crawford’s last 4 games as a Hawk, when his team most needed him to step up and score, he TOTALED 29 points. FOR 4 GAMES! Let’s see, that’s 7.25 points per game. On over 9 shots per game. Efficient? I don’t think so.

He actually had 37 FGA in those 4 games. That’s 9.25 FGA /game. Or 4.25 fga / gm MORE than Hinrich in this year’s playoff. Yet even though Jamal’s primary responsibility was scoring (it surely was not his defense!), he FAILED when we needed him most. His shooting % for those games?

Glad you asked: 11-37 (29.7%) from the field, and 1-14 from 3 (an abysmal 7.1%!)

You can post all you want about Hinrich’s scoreless game in a blowout loss. Hinrich’s lack of scoring wasn’t the difference in that game. But Jamal? Jamal’s lack of scoring, BECAUSE HE HAD SO MANY ATTEMPTS, affected those 4 games WAY more than Hinrich’s scoreless game.

You know High-sider if you are truly a JC1 fan, you should stop harping on Hinrich, because every time you do, I’ll throw these awful stats back on the blog, reinforcing negative attitudes about Jamal’s time here. But hey, if that’s a fair price for you trashing Hinrich, and you are willing to see these stats over and over, then by all means keep it up.

7.1% from 3. SMGDH.

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“harp on a scoreless game in a blowout loss..”

You’ve got the wrong game, Clarification. We’re talking about Game 3, which the Hawks lost in overtime. Pargo was -11 through 4 quarters (he did not play in overtime). Hinrich was (0) through three quarters (he did not play in the 4th quarter or overtime). And yet Pargo played in the 4th quarter and Hinrich didn’t. The Hawks were 11 points worse with Pargo on the floor. At the end of the 4th quarter, the game was tied, forcing overtime. In the 4th quarter, Rondo have 3 field goals, including 2 layups. While Hinrich was on the floor, Rondo didn’t score a single field goal.

Still waiting for the answer. Was playing Pargo in the 4th quarter of Game 3 the correct call? Rod from C.P.? High-sider? Bueller? Bueller?

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Buddy,

Nice catch. My bad. But High-Sider DID mention Game 4 as well.

High-sider,

“Being held scoreless in Game 3 vs. the Celtics was an absolutely pathetic, disgraceful and inexcusable performance by Hinrich since McGrady, Dampier and Collins even managed to score 12, 6 and 4 points, respectively.”

LMFAO again. Kirk had 3 whole FGA and missed all 3. That was EIGHTH on the team in FGA for that game. I’ll say it again, seven Hawks players had more FGA in that game than Kirk, but you say he “should have” been the 3rd option? Sounds like you should be complaining about LD’s play calling to me. More shots for Collins, and Damp than Kirk? But it’s on Kirk for what, not taking more shots out of the flow of offense? That’s what Jamal would do BECAUSE IT WAS HIS JOB TO SCORE. That was not Kirk’s job. You make no sense whatsoever.

“Shooting Guard” doesn’t ALWAYS mean your job is primarily to shoot. Take Tony Allen, for example. Defensive 2 guard who is 6th on the Grizz in playoff FGA. Sound familiar?

Or Thabo Sefolosha. Defensive 2 guard who is, wait for it…6th in FGA for the Thunder for the playoffs.

Your lack of understanding as to Hinrich’s role on this team is either purposely obtuse (my guess) or impossibly ignorant given the facts on the ground. A player who is 6th in FGA on his team is NOT considered a 3rd option on offense.

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Both teague and Al are experiments and project cases. Both have had enough time to do something….. anything.

Let the projects end. Trade Al and teague for Williams and Gasol

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Grandad – Billups won’t be back until January from the achilles injury. If we could spread our mid-level – and you can spend it on more than 1 player, it just has to cumulatively equal the mid-level – on Chancey Billups and Andre Miller – and maybe even Kirk Hinrich – would you do that?

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SteveW I always suspected you were dumb, but your line of thought proves it. This whole thing about Kirk Hinrich is irrelevant. Whats relevant is Jeff Teague is not producing, hasn’t produced and wont produce.

Dumb question. Kind of like Obama talking about gay marriages while the economy is collapsing .

Id like you to come up with better thoughts than that Steve.

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steven a smith
June 9th, 2012
11:59 am

Great Post. I totally agree with you her my friend.

DawgNole
June 9th, 2012
2:59 am

Al horford makes me sick with that weak as game. you aint gonna win with that chett. Trade his as now!
____________________

Can’t take credit for that one, Steven A. It was an imposter–probably donte80, who continues to obsess over me and my comments.

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Smith for Bynum is the answer. It makes Hawks and Lakers better teams and neither guy is going to resign with their respective teams anyway. Both guys need a change of scenery and feel unwanted anyway. This allows Al to move to his natural position and everybody knows the Lakers are going after Howard once he becomes an unrestricted free agent after one more season with the Magic anyway. Let’s go Sund and Spirit and get a little creative. The team you have right now ain’t cutting it and is never going to win a championship. Hortford and Teague should be the only untouchables. Do something for crying out loud and let the fans know you are serious about winning a championship because this team is putting me to sleep.

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BG – Just been studying up on Wroten on Draftexpress – but I haven’t seen his J. Sounds horrid.

OB – That’s kinda the reason I’m wondering if a shell game trade with the Cavs may work. Our #23 and #43, and our whole draft next season maybe for the Cavs #24, 33, and 34 in a deep draft. I think Darius Miller may be an ok SF, and he’s maybe still on the Board at 33. And maybe Jenkins from Vandy is on the board at 34.

Ok, never mind, back to the drawing board.

Man, it’s hard to come up with a plausible salary dump scenario for a #2 bust.

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OB – You may be right about Josh – he sounds like he really would like to try another situation.

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“The team you have right now ain’t cutting it and is never going to win a championship. Hortford and Teague” – theres your fc8cking problem right there.

Al hoeford and jeff brainless teague.

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brigadierjerry
June 9th, 2012
12:04 pm

Dawgnole,

You get to a point in time as you have stated many times were you get tired of waiting. To me with this management owenership team Hawks have it is time to show some progress advancing in the playoffs past 2nd round. Hawks need to make some moves and decide who they are building the team around.

Dawgnole, if you was the management/ownership, what would you do with this Hawks team as far as moves?Who would you keep and who would you get rid off
___________________

I’m with you, brigadier, on Hawks ownership/management having had more than enough time to show progress. As far as moves, the team’s in purgatory–not good enough to make it past Round 2, but too good to qualify for lottery picks. They had their chance at the latter, obviously, but Knight blew it–more than once. I’d like to see them keep Josh, Teague, Al, and Ivan–their top talent, IMO–and try to build around them. I still like TMac’s savvy. JJ’s past his prime. Pargo’s hot and cold. Marvin and Hinrich should go. All of this is easier said than done, of course. Blah Blah Blah. We’ve been through this too many times. There’s no magic out there.

By the way, I don’t understand all the grief Al gets on these boards. Hard to judge him in light of that injury, which some say he milked, but you saw what he did when he returned late in the Boston series. I think we could do a lot worse than letting him go.

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Enter your comments here

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Some of us know
June 9th, 2012
5:01 pm

SteveW,

Black Man, Rubuenstein the Jewish Kind, Thats fc8cked up, break up the core, the fake Grandad, fake stephen a smith, and fake DawgNole posts are all our resident troll. You probably knew that.

An ignorant troll at that, if he thinks Horford makes $15M. He’s at $12M / yr for the rest of his contract. But this troll never let’s the facts get in the way of his agenda. Never.
____________________

It’s gratifying to know, frankly, that you know these posters well enough to recognize a fake post. I didn’t realize we had a “resident troll” (imposter), but I’m beginning to find out the hard way.

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Co-sign some mo hoes -June 9th, 20125:01 pm

Al making between 12 and 17 million per year is a waste. for that kind of money we can have a real center that wont complain, milk injuries, lay out, fight his teammates and use his dad as a mouth piece to hate on Josh, the teams MVP and leader.

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for 12,000,000 to 18,000,000 Million mtherfckingdollars you think wed get a real center who wont fight his teammates and will love his position, play some defense not act like a hoe.

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So What will we get for the millions and millions upon Millions that we pay Al hoeford?

can we get better than 12pts 8 rebounds?

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Id take DeAndre Jordan for Al, Pull that trade now !

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Buddy Grizzard,

This isn’t superior blogman. This is t r u t h – s e r u m. A name that can’t be spelled without spacing because he’s been banned so many times here. They are not the same person, though t-s has, like a famous character in the Bible, Legions of personas. All of them saying the same worthless BS. Over and over.

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Go point dap01 this is Al hoefarts blog and I hate people that dont worship him.

We should have kept woodson.

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Thats not me posting as stopped being gay. someone has hacked my name.

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@Buddy Grizzard

“…This from a guy who dodged the direct question: Was it the correct call to play Pargo in the 4th quarter of Game 3 and sit Hinrich? As long as you dodge questions and bring up the ancient history of Jamal Crawford, you’re not even participating in the discussion. We’re talking about what could have changed in the BOS playoff series that could have resulted in the Hawks still PLAYING RIGHT NOW. None of us has a hot tub time machine and GM powers to retroactively re-sign Jamal Crawford. But LD had a choice of available players to use in the 4th quarter of Game 3. He chose Pargo over Hinrich. Was that correct call? Answer the question or stfu…” – Buddy Grizzard @12:43pm dated 6/9/2012

““Why can’t we move on past the Hinrich and Jamal discussion?”

We are past the Jamal discussion… at least, everybody but High-sider is. But I’m still waiting for High-sider and Rod from College Park to answer a simple question: Was playing Pargo in the 4th quarter of Game 3 and sitting Hinrich the correct call? Still waiting for an answer.” – Buddy Grizzard @3:25pm dated 6/9/2012
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LD was “partially” right [in] sitting/benching Hinrich in the 4th quarter and OT of Game 3 vs. the Celtics; McGrady, not Pargo, should have been playing in lieu of Hinrich. The five Hawks players that should have been playing in the 4th qtr. and OT of Game 3 vs. the Celtics include Teague @pg/sg, J. Johnson @sg/sf, T. McGrady @pnt frwd/sml frwd, M. Williams @pwr frwd and Dampier @cntr. Maybe LD could’ve inserted Ivan Johnson instead of M. Williams for some duration in the 4th quarter and overtime but that [substitution] should depend on the level of performance of both players late in that [particular] game. Please note [that] Kirk Hinrich HAD NOT SCORED A SINGLE POINT after logging 26:19 [26 minutes and 19 seconds] of playing time in Game 3 vs. the Celtics in the 2012 playoffs before being benched in the 4th quarter and overtime of that same game. The Hawks needed another player on the court who could score the basketball and McGrady proved he could give the Hawks [some] scoring by tallying 12 points in Game 3.

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looks like the Al horford for Danny Granger trade is back in discussions, I just dont see Danny Granger as helping us at center. Id prefer the Al for DeAndre Jordan trade or the Al plus Teague for D12 and a draft trade. Either way we address our #1 weakness center.

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Bleacher did have a Al, Teague, Marvin, ZaZa trade for D12. Said D12, Josh, and JJ equal anybody in the League’s Big 3.

Durant, Westbrook, and Harden would sure give them a run for that accolade.

OKC also has pieces. ATL would have no one.

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Dawgnole, Grandad,

I agree I dont get the hate against Al Horford. Is he as talented as Josh Smith no but can you win with him yes. He or for that matter Josh Smith arent a number one option on any teams unless you are a perennial lottery team or a team that is going nowhere. Does Al have limitations yes. We all know what Al can or cannot do but u can win with him. Al will probably have a loner career then Josh. The reason I say that is because as josh gets older and his athleticism declines, he will have to rely on his skills to continue his career.

As I stated before Al Horford is Buck Williams with a better jump shot. Buck Williams had a pretty solid career. Horford would be best suited in the role Buck Williams played on those Blazer teams in the 90’s with Drexler Duckworth Porter. Buck Williams was the 4th option on that team. Horford is a 3rd option at best but you know what so is Josh as well although I think Josh views himself as a consistent #2 option after Johnson and I dont think he is that as of this point in time. That is part of the reason against the better teams he struggles.

Hi-Sider,

I see you didnt answer my question in regards to who is better Jamal Crawford or Jason Terry and what state do you reside in but that is cool. It is pretty much time to end the Jamal Crawford chronicles that premiered on Lifetime last year.

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Best roster to keep the Hawks under the CAP:

PG: Teague, Wroten Jr., Pargo
SG: Joe, JR Smith/Nick Young
SF: Marvin, Josh Howard/Ronnie Brewer
PF: Smoove, Ivan
C: Horford, ZaZa, Collins, Brian Butch

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We were linked to Josh Howard last year…..I think if Smith opts out we could sign him for around 3 a year. He is a knuckledhead and it would be risky but he can create a shot which is what we lack off the bench.

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best roster under the cap to compete for a championship:

D William
W.Green
JJ
Josh Smoove
DeAngelo Jordan or Gasol or Bynam

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UConn center Andre Drummond is projected to be drafted in the second tier of players, after Kentucky’s Anthony Davis goes to New Orleans with the No. 1 pick. But there are red flags about the 6-10 Drummond, who has been told by UConn coaches that he is not ready for the NBA after only one college season. They’ve warned him that when he gets to the next level, he can’t spend countless hours playing video games. He’s going to have to show a new work ethic and get out on the court and improve his game. Let the buyer beware

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/seattle-bitter-transplanted-sonics-reach-nba-finals-oklahoma-city-thunder-article-1.1092686#ixzz1xL8RZyAY

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Thats a funny joke to say Al is in josh league talent wise. he is not nor ever will be in josh’s league as for talent.

Al will probably end up as a bench or role play 3 years from now. The days of waiting for Al to blossom in to a talent is over. We know that he has peaked.

This is who Al is

College? 12pts game
Pros? 12pts game
Allstar 05 pts game
Playoffs? 10.8 pts game (42 games) 7rbs

Al just doesnt have the talent that josh does. Sorry. No capable of taking over a game as Josh can.

Nobody has to set Josh up and Josh doesn’t need the pick and roll nor a screen. Josh can take you off the dribble, left hand, right hand at the basket, cutting, on the fly, cross over. face up, step back short hook, whatever. Josh has lots of offensive tools. Al doesn’t. Get real Al has a face up shot from 12-17 ft back that’s it. That’s why Al can’t score or command a double team like Josh.

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*Al has to go

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^Correction: “…2011-2012 NBA Regular and Post Season: averaged 6.6ppg in the regular season…”

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Put me down for the De Angelo for Al Trade. Do it now!!!

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Horford for Granger? So we become an even more jumpshot oriented team?

Joe Johnson: 554 shots from 16+ feet . . shot 39.4% from that range

Josh Smith: 499 shots from 16+ feet . . . shot 34.5% from that range

Danny Granger: 485 shots from 16+ feet . . . shot 37.9% from that range

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I agree Al should be traded but not for Granger. We can do better than that.

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http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2012/4/1/2919212/al-horford-for-danny-granger-who-says-no

Interesting that only 14% of those who answered the poll would trade Horford for Granger straight up. I thought it would have been higher.

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OMG

DeAndre Jordan’s Opponent Counterpart Per 48 Minute Production numbers.

20.9 points ( on 15.8 shots )
13.6 rebs
56% eFG ( extremely too high )
20.2 PER

That dude is THAT BAD defensively? That’s worse than Javale McGee and DeMarcus Cousins and even Andris Biendris. Only Anderson Varejao was worse last year.

No wonder why Reggie Evans and Kenyon Martin got major minutes during the playoffs.

It really shows you how overrated the blocked shot really is. Especially when that’s all you have. Jordan would get the occasional highlight block shot, but get lit up by his man overall.

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D-Wade is point shaving tonight.

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“LD was “partially” right [in] sitting/benching Hinrich in the 4th quarter and OT of Game 3 vs. the Celtics; McGrady, not Pargo, should have been playing in lieu of Hinrich.”

High-sider, this is at least progress. You finally acknowledge that the series was lost in part due to bad coaching. But if you want to pretend like you know something about basketball, here’s a suggestion. Before you make a comment like the above, jump on over to ESPN.com and look at the play by play for Game 3. If you had bothered to do that, you would know that Pargo and McGrady PLAYED TOGETHER in the 4th quarter. Despite turning his ankle in the first half, McGrady PLAYED 41 MINUTES in that game. There was hardly a time when MCGRADY WAN’T ON THE FLOOR.

But at least you admit playing Pargo was a mistake. As I said, progress.

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LOL . . if Willie Green is brought back, maybe it’s best to have a Royal Ivey on the roster as well . . so that Drew can either go with a strictly offensive player, or a strictly defensive player.

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Mike Brean sounds like a Heat announcer, he gets so excited when they do something positive. Then if the Celtics score, he sounds bored. I wonder if he realizes how one sided the game sounds? Isn’t he supposed to be impartial? Not a chance. I think JVG is embarrassed.

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the way ray allen runs routes, he looks like jerry rice, both real pros doing it the right way and with precision.

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bosh doing his best josh imitations. heh heh

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If Teague was Rondo and Al was Bynum we’d win A championship.

Duh

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hell if Al was as good as Bosh wed have a chance.

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Had to stop watching… so many unforced turnovers and bad defensive possessions by the Celtics. They didn’t want it bad enough.

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Here’s who else Al is:

Two time National Champion in college
2010-2011 Third team All-NBA
NBA All-Rookie First Team
Second in ROY voting to Kevin Durant
2 time All-Star at Center
More 4th quarter baskets than Josh and Joe combined in the playoffs this year, even though he only played two and a half games to their 6
1.33 blocks per game in the playoffs (for comparison Josh was 1.0 / gm)
.588% FG in the 2012 playoffs (for comparison Josh was .386%)
Career playoff FG% of 47.4 (for comparison Josh is 42%)

None of those stats were”trumped up”.

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heat playing to perfection, now.

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As for this topic. If a team is going to go with the “Detroit Model”, understand that the Detroit Model was constructed with DEFENSE as the #1 priority. From the coach, to the GM, to the players on the court, DEFENSE was the main emphasis in their construction.

And on offense, they were unselfish with no one guy being the offensive focal point of anything. But they knew who to get the ball to in certain situations.

And that team didn’t have much of a bench at all. That team was never no more than 8 deep on most nights. They were going to ride or die with their starters.

The true beauty of the “Detroit Model”, is that they managed to assemble top 10 talent at each starting position, while having a defensive identity.

The fatal mistake of Dumars, was not drafting Carmelo Anthony and believing the hype of Darko. Had he taken Melo at #2, Carmelo would’ve been perfect in a 6th man scoring role in his first few years in the league, while learning how to play defense on that squad.

Instead of being “the man”, but constantly losing in the playoffs, he could’ve had a career similar to a James Worthy, where he plays 2nd or 3rd fiddle for his first few years in the league, but being known as a key cog on a championship team.

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All that Bull Chitt and hes still just the 3rd or 4th best player on this tame

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Al Haters…

Al’s intelligent play, highlights Josh’s unintelligent play..

(2011) 15pts, 9rebs, 1 block, 1.5 turnovers and 56% shooting = SCRUB
(2011) 16pts, 8rebs, 1.6 blocks, 2.6 turnovers and 48% shooting = SUPERSTAR

Talented and undisciplined only takes you so far…. I will take moderate talent and discipline any day.

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Neither Pargo or Kurt should have been playing the idiot should have had Teague in the game.

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Hey doc, going to be a great series?

Wilt Jr. vs. Durantula!

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Here’s who else Al is:

Two time National Champion in college
2010-2011 Third team All-NBA
NBA All-Rookie First Team
Second in ROY voting to Kevin Durant
2 time All-Star at Center
More 4th quarter baskets than Josh and Joe combined in the playoffs this year, even though he only played two and a half games to their 6
1.33 blocks per game in the playoffs (for comparison Josh was 1.0 / gm)
.588% FG in the 2012 playoffs (for comparison Josh was .386%)
Career playoff FG% of 47.4 (for comparison Josh is 42%)

None of those stats were”trumped up”. Didn’t need to be. They are what they are.

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Yeah, he was a true leader when he was quitting on plays to argue with refs in Game 6.

“No wonder why Reggie Evans and Kenyon Martin got major minutes during the playoffs.”

DeAndre Jordan is available for trades!

“2) Why not put Hinrich back into the game early in the 4th, when it was obvious that Pargo wasn’t going to give you anything that night?”

Well, that’s the million dollar question, isn’t it? Pargo was complete garbage the entire series. If LD plays KH “the scoreless wonder” in the 4th instead of Pargo (-7 in 4:21 in the 4th according to PopcornMachine), maybe he prevents one of those Rondo layups, the Hawks win in regulation, and this series goes to a 7th game at Phillips. What if?

“Until Drew learns how to manage rotations, limit that dude’s options.”

And this is why my biggest priority for the offseason is for the Hawks replace the following players on the roster: Collins, Pargo, Green, Radmanovic. These players are garbage. Collins and Pargo in particular have cost the Hawks the chance of advancing in the playoffs the last two years.

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“Neither Pargo or Kurt should have been playing the idiot should have had Teague in the game.”

Teague also played the entire 4th quarter of Game 3.

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I do that Al for DeAngelo trade. What can we lose? Hes a better fighter than Al, plus we can Always go to Zaza or Ivan, both of them proved they are every bit as good as Al

Time to break up the experiments like Teague and Al. Go get rondo and De Angelo

Rondo
Green
JJ
Josh
DeAngelo

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My butt hurts.Tito used to touch me.

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I just don’t see KG retiring right now. Dude was a top 10 player in these playoffs. He could easily come back. Ray Allen might retire though. It’ll be interesting to see if he wants to come back.

Boston also has an insane amount of cap room this summer. 20+ million if Garnett and Allen are renounced.

Pierce
Rondo
Bass ( if he doesn’t opt out of his 4 million due next year )
Bradley
JaJuan Johnson
. . . are the only ones under contract

Stiemsma is a restricted free agent this year. I’d personally let him walk to whomever wants him.

Jeff Green may opt to return to Boston, if no one else throws a lot of money at him . . and if Boston even wants him. He’d be a nice pickup for the Hawks to bring off the bench, if he’s totally over his injury.

So they have a lot of room to re-construct the team, while also wooing other veterans to join the Celtic Green. If KG and Allen come back for one more run at things, Boston isn’t going anywhere anytime soon in the East.

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Al Horford for DeAndre Jordan assures two things: Lottery picks for the Hawks and an NBA championship for the Clippers. Think about it. If you could trade a certified scrub like Jordan for a third-team All-NBA center who is the best mid-range jump shooter in the league, would you pull the trigger?

Let me think… let me think… let me think… hmmm…. brain is straining….

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If we keep mr. 12pts 8rb horford we will be in the lottery in 2 years. We did not miss him this year and proved we are a better team with out him.

We are never going to win a championship or even compete for one with soft sorry as non performing Al.

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Northhyde thats all we need from De Angelo. Defensive, protect the rim, like your position, block some shots and make the other player stay home to guard against the lob dunk. perfect.

Now, shut the fck up

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“Jeff Green may opt to return to Boston, if no one else throws a lot of money at him . . and if Boston even wants him. He’d be a nice pickup for the Hawks to bring off the bench, if he’s totally over his injury.”

Green had surgery for a heart condition, not an injury. He appears to have fully recovered. And despite the fact that his contract with the Celtics was voided, he traveled with the team and was frequently on their bench in street clothes. They made him feel like part of the team throughout his recover, and I have to think he will end up back with the Celtics.

Ray Allen has no intention of retiring and will be seeking a multi-year deal with a team other than the Celtics. He does not like the fact that his expiring contract was dangled in trade scenarios and wants to go to a team that is committed to keeping him on the roster until he retires. KG I think most likely will be back with the Celtics on a less-expensive deal.

So think about this. Avery Bradley’s emergence as the starter at shooting guard completely changed the identity of this team. His defense made the Celtics better, and as you can see they missed it badly in this playoff series. With a healthy Bradley and a healthy Green, two first round draft picks, KG back on a bargain contract and money left over to add an impact free agent, the Celtics might be tougher next year than they were this year.

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Ditch~Weed

You can`t be me if you`re you and I`m me, `cause you`re you;
and if you`re you; that means you ain`t me,
so who are you if you`re not you `cause you`re sure not me,
and if I ain`t you I must be me, therefore if you ain`t you,
then then who are you, `cause somebody has got to be you,
and we know it ain`t me, and you ain`t me so really you are you,
so now that we have that settled, you are you and I am me.

Evenin`
G-dad

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Joky maybe then dont know what it takes to win a NBA championship but they surely know what wont.

That is Al Hoefart.

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“We did not miss him this year and proved we are a better team with out him.”

Yeah we didn’t miss his 4th-quarter scoring in the playoffs, even though he matched Josh and Joe combined for the series in 4th-quarter field goals. Let that scrub walk!

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Northcyde thats not me, thats an imposter. Im actually struggling with being on the down low right now and wondering whether I should stop being game or embrace my homo/ology and marry you like Obama suggested.

Thoughts?

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Randy, are you really Josh Smith?

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no idiot Jody, Im Dick bigger in bed with yo mama

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know by now

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Yeah the butt-hurt Horford-hater troll is off his meds tonight… That’s it for me… any further “Buddy Grizzard” posts tonight are from the guy with the hurt feelings.

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SteveW,

Billups was only making 2 mill with the Clips last season.

Incorrect. Remember that the Knicks used their amnesty on him, so they paid him $12 mil, while the Clippers paid him $2mil (the last year of billups contract was for $14mil).

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Me too Booty Gizzard, Any body posting as me after this is Buddy Grizzard

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O’Brien while I do agree that Al is injury prone missing entire playoff series, 90% of the season and 20 sent of the season means Al is injured too often at this stage of his career and this will only become worse and worse as Al gets older. Al is about peaked I trhink Al would be a nice role player or a nice bench guy but really, hes not the guy you want leading your charge. 12pts 8 rbs…. no, not Al. Any team that has Al as its leader is going down.

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I dont like the Al for any of the guys except Bynum, or Gasol maybe D12

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@Buddy Grizzard

““LD was “partially” right [in] sitting/benching Hinrich in the 4th quarter and OT of Game 3 vs. the Celtics; McGrady, not Pargo, should have been playing in lieu of Hinrich.”

High-sider, this is at least progress. You finally acknowledge that the series was lost in part due to bad coaching. But if you want to pretend like you know something about basketball, here’s a suggestion. Before you make a comment like the above, jump on over to ESPN.com and look at the play by play for Game 3. If you had bothered to do that, you would know that Pargo and McGrady PLAYED TOGETHER in the 4th quarter. Despite turning his ankle in the first half, McGrady PLAYED 41 MINUTES in that game. There was hardly a time when MCGRADY WAN’T ON THE FLOOR…” – Buddy Grizzard @10:08pm dated 6/9/2012

Are you talking about the following play-by-play breakdown of Game 3 vs. the Celtics in the 2012 playoffs?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/201205040BOS.html

“LD was “partially” right [in] sitting/benching Hinrich in the 4th quarter and OT of Game 3 vs. the Celtics; McGrady, not Pargo, should have been playing in lieu of Hinrich. The five Hawks players that should have been playing in the 4th qtr. and OT of Game 3 vs. the Celtics include Teague @pg/sg, J. Johnson @sg/sf, T. McGrady @pnt frwd/sml frwd, M. Williams @pwr frwd and Dampier @cntr. Maybe LD could’ve inserted Ivan Johnson instead of M. Williams for some duration in the 4th quarter and overtime but that [substitution] should depend on the level of performance of both players late in that [particular] game…” – High-sider @6:09pm dated 6/9/2012

I gave you a lineup of the Hawks players [I thought] should have been playing [in] the 4th quarter and overtime of Game 3 vs. the Celtics in the 2012 playoffs. [See above for a portion of my earlier post.]
I meant that McGrady, [and] not Pargo, should have been the “third [3rd] player” in the Hawks back court [J. Johnson, Teague and McGrady] so to speak in Game 3 vs. the Celtics. I realize that McGrady played 40+ minutes in Game 3 vs. the Celtics.

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they beat the chiit out of us

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I’ll whoop Al’s As

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Let Rick Sund go and go after Dennis Lindsey from the Spurs and let him run the team not the stupid people from the spirit group

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OB,

If Drummond is gone, you take the best player available. You can always trade that player or another player later for a position of need. Like OKC did with Jeff Green.

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there is a model we could have used that wasnt the flawed one year wonder maximized only by billy knight’s stupidity of giving sheen to them for a bad song. it would have involved excellent experienced coaching and superior gm work to manage money and egos. it would be a philosophy of protecting your own assets, providing stability to everyone looking in or inside as a part of it and building from within, including coaching up young players. it is called the san antonio model.

last look the san antonio model doesnt involve trading away two number one draft picks to cover a bad contract decision nor adding to the insult of the failure of coaching to not pull the trigger within and make a switch to a younger player, as ready as he is going to be by sitting and watching and within months providing as good a point guard play as we have seen in over a decade. nor is it selling number two picks for money, nor throwing away a second rounder for a long shot foreign player even euros never heard of. this is all about the entertaining culture of the basg and a fly by the seat of your pants management agenda of an nba franchise.

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Looking back @ ‘06 draft *yeesh* Lotta stiffs in 1st round, excepting LaMarcus Aldridge, who went 3 picks ahead of us. Shelden W. was a bust, but hindsight, not much as expected has come from 1st rounders that year.
2005 could have turned our franchise around … no guarantee that we would have been in position (record-wise) to get Horford in ‘07, but it is what it is.

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Holy crap! T-s was off his meds last night, eh?

For the record this is my first post since Friday night at 9:41.

Any Sautee post since then was the troll.

Northcyde, you are a gullible man to have believed that T-s was me. Hell, the content should have told you. And would you truly believe I’d want to trade Horford for Deandre Jordan? Seriously?

C’est la vie

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*I would not pull the trigger on the DeAndre Jordan trade because im holding out hope

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12:10 and 12:12 are obviously our troll, who must have run out of ideas for his own handle, so he is compelled to borrow mine.

I truly feel sorry for you T-s. I mean that. To carry that kind of rage around is an awful burden.

I hope you can find whatever it is that you need.

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I’ve been hoping that Teague would be there at 23, but with Boston having 2 picks, I don’t think they let him pass.

Other choice would be the quiet assassin, Doron Lamb.

And Golden State needs to make some noise. Jerry West is going to have major input in their decisions. What is crummy is we have a GM in limbo who isn’t sure if he wants to go one more year.

Our organization somehow gets to the playoffs and promotes that as enough justification to do things how they do. How many years have been wasted waiting for our guys to play better than they are?

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We’ll be fortunate to get a lottery pick for Josh. No way Sund trades his all-stars.

It’s comical to think that now the ASG want to move Marvin. He’s been here 7 years and you’re just deciding his pick may not have panned out?
Fire the guy that agreed to the player option for 2013 against no competition……idiocy.

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I agree with the guys who say we need to trade Al now to shed that 12-17million we are paying for 12pts 8rbs.

Why in the hell are we paying millions upon millions for 12pts and 8 rbs? Didnt Ivan and Zaza do the same thing for less?

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*I would not pull the trigger on the DeAndre Jordan trade because im holding out hope
—————————————————————————————-

So saith the troll

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If the troll continues to use my handle I will be forced to use one of my 5 other handles that I use on times like these, or to make you guys think that many people are sharing my ideas, when infact its me under 5 different handles. See if you can tell when I’m undercover or down low.

By the way. That was not me at 1:32. That was T.S.
——————————————————————————

So saith the troll

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I agree with the guys who say we need to trade Al now to shed that 12-17million we are paying for 12pts 8rbs.

Why in the hell are we paying millions upon millions for 12pts and 8 rbs? Didnt Ivan and Zaza do the same thing for less?
—————————————————————————————————-

So saith the troll

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Co-signing bigtime good post:

“O’Brien while I do agree that Al is injury prone missing entire playoff series, 90% of the season and 20 sent of the season means Al is injured too often at this stage of his career and this will only become worse and worse as Al gets older. Al is about peaked I trhink Al would be a nice role player or a nice bench guy but really, hes not the guy you want leading your charge. 12pts 8 rbs…. no, not Al. Any team that has Al as its leader is going down.
————————————————————————————

So saith the troll

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You don’t go out and acquire a player after he has landed a big contract.

We’re frickin’ strapped to the neck in contracts already.

We overpay to keep our own guys….and you give them less responsiblity.
Total ineptness. Joe is laughing at all the clowns associated with management, as his agent. I wouldn’t do more either because its not expected.

We wasted another year, because the 7 dwarfs wouldn’t fill the void left by Al. Did OKC stand pat when Maynor went down? Did SA stop searching for talent when Ginobili went down for a chunk of games?

We’re watching a product that has limited resources because they don’t know what smart decisions are.

I guarantee you Chicago won’t be sniveling in their offices because DRose is down. They will get resources to fix the problem before camp starts.

We’re trying to figure out if we need to grab Collins and Dampier before they leave town.

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Anybody wanna wager between Al or Josh who is an all-star next year? All this disdain for Al, yet somehow the league votes him on the all-star team. Heck, if Noah could add 4-6 points his stats, he would be an all-star over Al.

But Josh’s best chance was this past year, and Rondo took Joe’s slot.

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Al may have been on the all star team but hes only the 3rd or 4th best player on this team. He may have some self centered awards but this is a team game and Al doesnt get that. This was a much better team with out Al.

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“Al, yet somehow the league votes him on the all-star team.”

WRONG

The leagues fans have never ever, voted Al to an All star team. and Never will

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Al, is an former Coach pick as an allstar addition. Its true the fans dont see his contributions of 12 pts 8rbs as all star material.

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“Al, yet somehow the league votes him on the all-star team.”

WRONG

The leagues fans have never ever, voted Al to an All star team. and Never will
———————————————————————————————–

So saith the troll

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No one knows I am Subtlety I am so dam smart

_______________________________________________________________________________

So saith the troll

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Is Sautee a the troll or is Subtlety the troll Which or them is the troll? or Are they both the same troll or 2 different troll?

How many trolls are there?

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I ve never seen a troll talk to himself what the fck is this chiit?

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12,000.000 / 12 pt 8rbs = 1,000,000 per point average plus 0.66 rbs

I think we can do better investing than Al horford

_________________________________________________________

Thus saith the troll

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“Al may have been on the all star team but hes only the 3rd or 4th best player on this team.”

That’s funny because Al had as many 4th quarter field goals in the playoffs as Josh and Joe combined.

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yes I agree guys. After Josh and then JJ, I think Marvin and Al about even, depending on who you ask. But they are both bursts and project cases so whether you make Marvin the 3rd best player or Al this is a gap between the level of Josh and JJ to the level of Marvin and Al – Im just saying

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And they were right. We lost. Thanks Al, Thanks Teague!

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“Sautee

June 10th, 2012
2:13 pm
“Al, yet somehow the league votes him on the all-star team.”

WRONG

The leagues fans have never ever, voted Al to an All star team. and Never will”

Sautee, doesn’t the league’s coaches ‘vote’ on who should be the reserves for the all-star team? I think so…..and LD can’t vote for his own players to help their cause. And here we’ve seen Joe and Al get multiple nods.

If vote isn’t the right word, then you pick the word, but Al’s been there.

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Just read Bradley’s Hawks/OKC comparison is it is a good one. It tells you how far apart these 2 teams are:

- Shelden, Chills & Marvin are our faces of our drafts.
- Durant, Westbrook & Harden are the faces of the OKC draft. Quite humorous.

- We are totally against breaking up the core.
- OKC went right into their core and moved Jeff Green for interior defense.

- We bring in a last hurrah Mike Bibby. We then move him for past-his-prime Hinrich who is overmatched at PG and SG. Who thought he was a shooting guard? The same guy that drafted Pape Sy?
- OKC goes and creates their PGs, and Eric Maynor is their backup, one pick behind our current PG, Teague.

We’ve been working on a product for 8 years and are now in 1st round rejection.

OKC has just stepped on everyone’s face and blown by them to the Finals.

Finally, we take the Seattle reject, let him come and go as he pleases and he just sits in his rocking chair waiting for his staff to prepare for the draft….the same draft that we traded away 2 picks for to get Hinrich.

OKC, they hire a young gun, he absolutely nails his selections and his coach. Now tell me, do you think the ASG paid Sund more than they would have had to pay Presti? Inept….

Yep, OKC has followed our model and just blown it right up. The comparisions couldn’t be more ‘bizarro’.

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Nothin’ can be finer than to troll in the recliner in my mommy’s basement
Nothin’ can be sweeter than to be a self-meat beater in the basement.

I average more “beats” per day than Al averages points a game. If you know what I mean.

Trolls 4ever. Time to shave my palms.

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Here’s the huge list of upcoming free agents…note that the ones Sund will touch will be the ones that everyone else has passed over:

Unresticted free agents:

Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns – $11.7 million – Unrestricted
Aaron Brooks, Phoenix Suns – $2.0 million – Restricted ($3.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Raymond Felton, Portland Trail Blazers – $7.6 million – Unrestricted
Kirk Hinrich, Atlanta Hawks – $8.0 million – Unrestricted
Jason Kidd, Dallas Mavericks – $8.6 million – Unrestricted
Andre Miller, Denver Nuggets – $7.8 million – Unrestricted
Chauncey Billups, L.A. Clippers – $2.0 million – Unrestricted
Jameer Nelson, Orlando Magic – $7.8 million – Player Option ($7.8 million)
D.J. Augustin, Charlotte Bobcats – $3.2 million – Restricted ($4.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Jason Terry, Dallas Mavericks – $10.7 million – Unrestricted
George Hill, Indiana Pacers – $2.1 million – Restricted ($3.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Jordan Farmar, Brooklyn Nets – $4.0 million – Player Option ($4.3 million)
Leandro Barbosa, Indiana Pacers – $7.6 million – Unrestricted
Goran Dragic, Houston Rockets – $2.1 million – Unrestricted
Jerryd Bayless, Toronto Raptors – $3.0 million – Restricted ($4.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Derek Fisher, Oklahoma City Thunder – $3.4 million – Unrestricted
Randy Foye, L.A. Clippers – $4.3 million – Unrestricted
Mo Williams, L.A. Clippers – $8.5 million – Player Option ($8.5 million)
Jonny Flynn, Portland Trail Blazers – $3.4 million – Unrestricted
Keyon Dooling, Boston Celtics – $2.2 million – Unrestricted
Ishmael Smith, Orlando Magic – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*

Jeremy Lin, New York Knicks – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Sundiata Gaines, Brooklyn Nets – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
A.J. Price, Indiana Pacers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Baron Davis, New York Knicks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Royal Ivey, Oklahoma City Thunder – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
John Lucas, Chicago Bulls – $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Gilbert Arenas, Memphis Grizzlies – $0.4 million – Unrestricted
Jannero Pargo, Atlanta Hawks – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Delonte West, Dallas Mavericks – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Walker Russell, Jr., Detroit Pistons – $0.4 million – Unrestricted*
Darius Morris, L.A. Lakers – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Terrell Harris, Miami HEAT – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Carldell Johnson, New Orleans Hornets – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
DeAndre Liggins, Orlando Magic – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Ronnie Price, Phoenix Suns – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
T.J. Ford, Golden State Warriors – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Anthony Carter, Toronto Raptors – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Roger Mason, Washington Wizards – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Jamaal Tinsley, Utah Jazz – $1.2 million – Team Option ($1.3 million)
Donald Sloan, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.2 million – Unrestricted*
Manny Harris, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.4 million – Unrestricted*
Patty Mills, San Antonio Spurs – $0.3 million – Unrestricted*
Courtney Fortson, Houston Rockets – $0.2 million – Unrestricted*
Mike James, Chicago Bulls – $0.6 million – Unrestricted
Jerome Dyson, New Orleans Hornets – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Ben Uzoh, Toronto Raptors – $0.2 million – Unrestricted*
Armon Johnson, Brooklyn Nets – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Earl Boykins, Houston Rockets – $0.2 million – Unrestricted
Blake Ahearn, Utah Jazz – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*

Shooting Guard
(name, team – 2011-12 salary – status)

Eric Gordon, New Orleans Hornets – $3.8 million – Restricted ($5.1 million Qualifying Offer)
O.J. Mayo, Memphis Grizzlies – $5.6 million – Restricted ($7.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Ray Allen, Boston Celtics – $10.0 million – Unrestricted
Landry Fields, New York Knicks – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Carlos Delfino, Milwaukee Bucks – $3.5 million – Unrestricted
Nick Young, L.A. Clippers – $3.7 million – Unrestricted
Jamal Crawford, Portland Trail Blazers – $5.0 million – Player Option ($5.2 million)
Louis Williams, Philadelphia 76ers – $5.2 million – Early Termination Option ($5.4 million)
J.R Smith, New York Knicks – $1.4 million – Player Option ($2.6 million)
Mickael Pietrus, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Courtney Lee, Houston Rockets – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Rudy Fernandez, Denver Nuggets – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
DeShawn Stevenson, Brooklyn Nets – $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Damion James, Brooklyn Nets – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
C.J. Miles, Utah Jazz – $3.7 million – Unrestricted
Shannon Brown, Phoenix Suns – $3.5 million – Unrestricted
Josh Howard, Utah Jazz – $2.2 million – Unrestricted
Gerald Green, Brooklyn Nets – $0.4 million – Unrestricted
Terrence Williams, Sacramento Kings – $2.4 million – Unrestricted
Jodie Meeks, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Marco Belinelli, New Orleans Hornets – $3.4 million – Unrestricted
James Anderson, San Antonio Spurs – $1.5 million – Unrestricted
Matt Carroll, Charlotte Bobcats – $3.9 million – Early Termination Option ($3.5 million)
Brandon Rush, Golden State Warriors – $3.0 million – Restricted ($4.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Alonzo Gee, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Danny Green, San Antonio Spurs – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Tracy McGrady, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Jerry Stackhouse, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Willie Green, Atlanta Hawks – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Jason Kapono, Cleveland Cavaliers – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Marquis Daniels, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Sasha Pavlovic, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Cory Higgins, Charlotte Bobcats – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Anthony Parker, Cleveland Cavaliers – $2.3 million – Unrestricted
Keith Bogans, Brooklyn Nets – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Michael Redd, Phoenix Suns – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Mo Evans, Washington Wizards – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Kelenna Azubuike, Dallas Mavericks – $0.4 million – Unrestricted
Bobby Simmons, L.A. Clippers – $0.5 million – Unrestricted
Morris Almond, Washington Wizards – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
Alan Anderson, Toronto Raptors – $0.2 million – Unrestricted
Xavier Silas, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Cartier Martin, Washington Wizards – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
Von Wafer, Orlando Magic – $1.0 million – Unrestricted

Small Forward
(name, team – 2011-12 salary – status)

Nic Batum, Portland Trail Blazers – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Jeff Green, Boston Celtics – $4.5 million – Restricted ($7.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Chase Budinger, Houston Rockets – $0.9 million – Team Option ($0.9 million)
Grant Hill, Phoenix Suns – $6.5 million – Unrestricted
Sam Young, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Matt Barnes, L.A. Lakers – $1.9 million – Unrestricted
Andres Nocioni, Philadelphia 76ers – $6.7 million – Unrestricted
Anthony Tolliver, Minnesota Timberwolves – $2.1 million – Unrestricted
Donte’ Greene, Sacramento Kings – $2.0 million – Restricted ($3.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Bill Walker, New York Knicks – $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Devin Ebanks, L.A. Lakers – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*

Jeremy Evans, Utah Jazz – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Eduardo Najera, Charlotte Bobcats – $2.8 million – Unrestricted
Derrick Brown, Charlotte Bobcats – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Damien Wilkins, Detroit Pistons – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Dominic McGuire, Golden State Warriors – $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Chris Wright, Golden State Warriors – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
DaJuan Summers, New Orleans Hornets – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Steve Novak, New York Knicks – $1.0 million – Unrestricted
Rasual Butler, Toronto Raptors – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Diamon Simpson, Houston Rockets – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Jamario Moon, Charlotte Bobcats – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
James Singleton, Washington Wizards – $0.2 million – Unrestricted
D.J. Kennedy, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*

Power Forward
(name, team – 2011-12 salary – status)

Kevin Garnett, Boston Celtics – $21.2 million – Unrestricted
Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs – $21.2 million – Unrestricted
Michael Beasley, Minnesota Timberwolves – $6.3 million – Restricted ($8.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Brandon Bass, Boston Celtics – $4.3 million – Player Option ($4.3 million)
Kris Humphries, Brooklyn Nets – $8.0 million – Unrestricted
Kenyon Martin, L.A. Clippers – $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Carl Landry, New Orleans Hornets – $8.5 million – Unrestricted
J.J. Hickson, Portland Trail Blazers – $2.4 million – Restricted ($3.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Elton Brand, Philadelphia 76ers – $17.1 million – Early Termination Option ($18.2 million)
Antawn Jamison, Cleveland Cavaliers – $15.1 million – Unrestricted

Jason Thompson, Sacramento Kings – $3.0 million – Restricted ($4.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Marreese Speights, Memphis Grizzlies – $2.8 million – Restricted ($3.8 million Qualifying Offer)
Ryan Anderson, Orlando Magic – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
D.J. White, Charlotte Bobcats – $2.0 million – Restricted ($3.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Anthony Randolph, Minnesota Timberwolves – $2.9 million – Restricted ($4.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Renaldo Balkman, New York Knicks – $1.7 million – Unrestricted
Ronny Turiaf, Miami HEAT – $4.4 million – Unrestricted
Troy Murphy, L.A. Lakers – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Boris Diaw, San Antonio Spurs – $9.0 million – Unrestricted
Chris Wilcox, Boston Celtics – $3.0 million – Unrestricted
Ersan Ilyasova, Milwaukee Bucks – $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Darrell Arthur, Memphis Grizzlies – $2.0 million – Restricted ($3.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Louis Amundson, Indiana Pacers – $2.4 million – Unrestricted

Jordan Hill, L.A. Lakers – $2.9 million – Unrestricted
Craig Brackins, Phildelphia 76ers – $1.4 million – Unrestricted
Chris Johnson, New Orleans Hornets – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Derrick Caracter, L.A. Lakers – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Brian Cook, Washington Wizards – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Ian Mahinmi, Dallas Mavericks – $0.9 million – Unrestricted

Luke Harangody, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Vladimir Radmanovic, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Ivan Johnson, Atlanta Hawks – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Brian Scalabrine, Chicago Bulls – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Brian Cardinal, Dallas Mavericks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Yi Jianlian, Dallas Mavericks – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Vernon Macklin, Detroit Pistons – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Reggie Evans, L.A. Clippers – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Juwan Howard, Miami HEAT – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Shelden Williams, Brooklyn Nets – $1.0 million – Unrestricted
Jared Jeffries, New York Knicks – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Francisco Elson, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Lavoy Allen, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Jeremy Evans, Utah Jazz – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Lance Thomas, New Orleans Hornets – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Ryan Reid, Oklahoma City Thunder – $0.5 million – Unrestricted
Sean Williams, Boston Celtics – $0.1 million – Unrestricted

Center
(name, team – 2011-12 salary – status)

Roy Hibbert, Indiana Pacers – $2.6 million – Restricted ($3.7 million Qualifying Offer)
Brook Lopez, Brooklyn Nets – $3.1 million – Restricted ($4.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Chris Kaman, New Orleans Hornets – $12.7 million – Unrestricted
JaVale McGee, Denver Nuggets – $2.5 million – Restricted ($3.5 million Qualifying Offer)
Marcus Camby, Houston Rockets – $12.9 million – Unrestricted
Spencer Hawes, Philadelphia 76ers – $4.1 million – Unrestricted
Kwame Brown, Milwaukee Bucks – $6.8 million – Unrestricted
Aaron Gray, Toronto Raptors – $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Robin Lopez, Phoenix Suns – $2.8 million – Restricted ($4.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Jermaine O’Neal, Boston Celtics – $6.2 million – Unrestricted
Nazr Mohammed, Oklahoma City Thunder – $3.8 million – Unrestricted
Omer Asik, Chicago Bulls – $1.9 million – Unrestricted*
Semih Erden, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Ben Wallace, Detroit Pistons – $2.2 million – Unrestricted
Hamed Haddadi, Memphis Grizzlies – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Mehmet Okur, Portland Trail Blazers – $10.9 million – Unrestricted
Greg Stiemsma, Boston Celtics – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Daniel Orton, Orlando Magic – $1.1 million – Unrestricted

Hasheem Thabeet, Portland Trail Blazers – $5.1 million – Unrestricted

Ryan Hollins, Boston Celtics – $0.3 million – Unrestricted
Jason Collins, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Joel Przybilla, Portland Trail Blazers – $0.7 million – Unrestricted
Eddy Curry, Miami HEAT – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Tony Battie, Philadelphia 76ers – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Greg Oden, Portland Trail Blazers – $1.5 million – Unrestricted
Jamaal Magloire, Toronto Raptors – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Kyrylo Fesenko, Indiana Pacers – $0.3 million – Unrestricted
Mickell Gladness, Golden State Warriors – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Mikki Moore, Golden State Warriors – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
Dan Gadzuric, New York Knicks – $0.1 million – Unrestricted

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good ole dawg-hole and the fresh ideas he brings by repeating “44 years of playoff frutility” 50 times a day …

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Northcyde is the pot head of the day.

Spud was much much better then stupid as teague…. that stupid mother fcker teague is just dumb

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its hard to believe that all those centers on the list that are equal to or better than Al is making Millions less than Al. Millions. Al is way overpaid. Why in the hell would I give any player a 1,000,000 per point average and 1,000,000 per 0.66 per rebound average. What a wastes of money.

Quite a few player on that list whooped Al’s as for Millions less.

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Teague and Al are 2 projects we need to move away from. Like a care that keep costing more and more money. Dump it. You arent going to get a championship trying to get to projects to lead your team. You will for every be a project team.

Dump these two projects and move on to more impacting players like Josh and JJ.

Quit with the statistic pimping and misrepresentations.

for get taking some players 5 best minutes and projecting that accross 42 minutes and say look at this efficiency. Al is just a 12 pt 8 rebound average Al and teague is an idiot. Lets just move on.

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Josh is wasting good years waiting on projects like teague and al to wise up and up their games. Josh, it aint happening. Those to scrubs will always be scrubs. if the hawks dont put the right pieces around you to win a championship than demand to be traded.

I wont blame you at all. You cant compete with Al and Teague projects.

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Don’t understand the anti-Horford sentiment on this board…he is the one guy here you can build a team around.

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2009 – 10 Hawks efficiency rank by position

PG – Bibby ( 40 ) . . . #179 overall
SG – Johnson ( 5 ) . . #37 overall
SF – Marvin ( 23 ) . . . #142 overall
PF – Smith ( 7 ) . . . . #18 overall
C – Horford ( 6 ) . . . . #22 overall

SG – Jamal ( 17 ) . . . #99 overall

Three top 40 players . . Four top 100 players on this squad. If we were a little stronger at PG and SF . . or . . if we had more of a defensive mindset, this would be the type of team that could be part of the “Detroit Model”.

Woody did right in limiting the playing time to his top 8 players on his squad. A case could be made for Teague possibly being used a lot more, but Jamal was playing good basketball at this time, and Woody was opting to go with him.

I still say a Pau Gasol for Josh Smith and Marvin Williams is the way to go, if the Hawks want to balance this team out more.

My 2012 – 13 projected efficiency numbers for the Hawks if that trade is made

PG – Teague ( 14 ) . . #64 overall
G – Johnson ( 4 ) . . . #45 overall
SF – ????
PF – Gasol ( 5 ) . . . #10 overall
C – Horford ( 4 ) . . . #18 overall

With all of the talk of Pau Gasol in decline, the facts are that he’s been in the top 10 in efficiency in the league since 2008 and a top 20 efficiency player since 2005. Those are facts. And I don’t see that changing one bit if he were brought to the Hawks. He’s going to shoot a high percentage. He’s going to rebound the basketball. And he’s going to play good position defense on the man he is guarding.

All of those are facts.

And I still say that part of Teague’s problem not only has to do with Drew, it has to do with Josh Smith. Just like the departure of Jamal Crawford enabled Teague to take more control of the PG position, moving Josh enables Teague to become a more impactful and efficient player on the offensive end. His assists would go up because he’d be passing the ball to 2 of the best mid-range shooting big men in the league.

His shooting % would go up as well, with him being able to get the ball from defensive rebounds and by teams not doubling him, with JJ, Horford, and Gasol being offensive threats.

The only thing to figure out then, is who to play at SF. We could draft one, but we’d also need one via free agency. If we’re following the “Detroit Model”, the SF will probably have to be one who can play defense, while providing timely offense. Not too much to choose from, judging from that free agent list. So maybe we just get a shooter/defender, but don’t rely on him for major minutes.

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“I still say a Pau Gasol for Josh Smith and Marvin Williams is the way to go, if the Hawks want to balance this team out more.”

northcyde, now that is a fantasy trade. Sund can’t even redo the Bibby deal to get Marvin out of here. His contract is that bad.

IMO, Marvin is more than worth amnesty provisioning if the 7 dwarfs had any interest in moving forward. They aren’t going to say it for Joe; he’s not going to be dropped for no return. Sund’s creativity has killed this team for another 2 seasons minimum. I believe it was BuddyG who stated that earlier.

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Indiana beat a horrid Orlando team and were decent against Miami. But they aren’t at any level to boast about. They will sell tickets, but they have a lot of upcoming questions too. Hibbert just wants to play nice and get that LT deal, but I would let him go get an offer that has to be matched.

I like us as much as I like Indiana. They are 2-3 starters away from contending also.

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I found this rating that tells us how well the Hawks have drafted over the years 1989-2008, some of the worse years this franchise has seen since coming to Atlanta:

http://www.82games.com/bestdraftingteams.htm

If you don’t want to be disgusted, don’t view this…..and this is BEFORE Sund!

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@ BigWad . . . it’s easy just to throw something like that out there. The real question is . . what center in the league fits that description, and if that team would trade that center for JJ and Marvin?

The only trade that even close to fitting that description, is a trade with Dallas that sends JJ for Shawn Marion and Brendan Haywood.

If you want to tank and remake the team, that’s the type of trade you do. And while Shawn may still give you decent production at the level of a Marvin, Haywood has turned into complete garbage since getting that contract.

But if you truly wanted to get rid of JJ’s contract, that’s the type of deal you’d do.

PG – Teague
SG – ???? ( 1st round pick )
SF – Smith ( I guess with JJ gone, people would want Smith @ SF )
PF – Horford
C – Zaza

6th – Marvin
7th – ??? ( would have to be a guard )
8th – Marion
9th – Haywood
10th – ??? ( probably another guard )

No immediate relief though.

Marion + Haywood would make 17 million next year . . and 18 million the next ( Shawn’s final year, so he could be traded off ). Haywood would still have a year left on his deal until his player option of 10.5 million comes up in the summer of 2015.

If Dallas failed to get Deron Williams this summer, I could definitely see Cuban trading for a player like JJ and dumping Marion and Haywood on us.

Dallas could then roll with Dirk, JJ, and a re-signed Jason Terry as their core for the next 2 years. And they’d still be under the cap enough to go get a player or two. And of course the Mavs wouldn’t be shy about using their exceptions and going into the Luxury Tax to fill the rest of the roster

PG – Beubois
G – ???
F – Johnson
PF – Nowitzki
C – ???

Cuban is the type that would rather swap and switch out parts, instead of blow it up. Even with a “declining Dirk” ( down to #22 in efficiency overall from #11 last year ), he wouldn’t blow it up until he’s for certain that it is the end.

If he does blow it up, he’ll trade Dirk to an up and coming playoff team and won’t send Dirk to a bottom feeder. If Cuban coveted Josh Smith, would Hawk fans be in favor of a “declining Dirk” in exchange for Josh Smith and Marvin Williams?

PG – Teague
G – Johnson
F – ???
PF – Dirk
C – Horford

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Northlied, all of your trade scenarios keep Sorry As Al horford who is a very major part of the problem and clearly not part of the solution.

This shows that you are not thinking objectively but are looking for ways to salvage your favorite player. Al sorry Horford.

You lose credibility with me because you are not trying to make the hawks better, You are trying to keep your favorite player who is a scrub.

Its an better and easier trade to keep Josh who is a major talent and one of the best 3 power forwards in the game and trade our center Al for A better center Gasol, Howard, Bynum…etc.

You are wasting your ink dude You have zero credibility.

Perhaps we can trade you and Al for a center.

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mr. north/lied that was also a dumb move you supported in running woodson out of town to make way for Larry Drew.

You credibility with me is zero because you are only trying to help your favorite player and not make the hawks a better team

trade our center and get us a better center.

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“Don’t understand the all anti-Horford sentiment on this board…he is the one guy here you can build a team around.”

Yeah, if you are building your way to the lottery, or the injured list

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Rondo
Green
JJ
Smoove
Gasol

CHAMPIONSHIP AND AFFORDABLE

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Northcyde try and be fair. I understand that Al Horford is your favorite player, for what ever unknown reason. Be why dont you shoot out 3 or 4 real trade scenarios where you keep Josh and trade Al and upgrade the center position.

At least give the fake image that you are fair and impartial. It would make it look like you are trying to help the hawks instead of Al horford.

Right now its clear you are trying to make Al look as good as Josh which we all know he isnt.

Try to redeem your credibility.

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Grandad

June 10th, 2012
7:00 pm

Northcyde try and be fair. I understand that Al Horford is your favorite player, for what ever unknown reason. Be why dont you shoot out 3 or 4 real trade scenarios where you keep Josh and trade Al and upgrade the center position.

At least give the fake image that you are fair and impartial. It would make it look like you are trying to help the hawks instead of Al horford.

Right now its clear you are trying to make Al look as good as Josh which we all know he isnt.

Try to redeem your credibility.

*********************

Fake Grandad . . it is what it is.

Al’s contract is not up. Al isn’t the one asking behind the scenes to be out of ATL.

Josh Smith is.

Would I trade Al Horford for Pau Gasol? Yep.

Would I trade Al + JJ for Dwight Howard? Yep. ( and would’ve done that last season involving ANY TWO of our “core” players )

Would I trade Al for Brook Lopez? Nope.

Would I trade Al for Deandre Jordan? Hell naw.

So there you go.

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“I don’t know where the rumors are coming from and neither does Josh,” Levenson said. “Josh said to me, `They’re not coming from me, Bruce. They’re not coming from my agent.”’

Read more here: http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2012/03/14/1971223/atlanta-hawks-co-owner-bruce-levenson.html#storylink=cpy

They are coming from NorthLied an Michael Cunningham

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“This is Josh’s team.”

LOL Josh quit on this team.

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PG – Teague
G – Johnson
F – Marvin
PF/C – Gasol
PF/C – Horford

C – Fab Melo
PF – Ivan

With Melo, we don’t have to worry about running plays for him. He’d essentially be a little quicker version of Jason Collins, who can defend his man, rebound, and block shots. Put him in the middle to enable Horford and Gasol to play PF for stretches in the game, and the Hawks would be straight. If you want to play small ball, play Ivan instead of Fab.

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Actually, from a balance standpoint, the Josh + Zaza for Gasol may be the way to go. Both guys would probably leave ATL ( or be out of ATL’s price range ) come next summer anyway. Zaza may be an on again – off again fan favorite, but we’re talking about improving the team while also preparing for the future.

But the draft is always funny. If a high quality guy freefalls through the draft, the Hawks can’t afford not to take him, simply because they need a position elsewhere.

You just have to wonder how seriously the Hawks take the draft, seeing how many times they’ve missed on players, or trade away guys just for the sake of saving a few dollars.

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From cbssports.com

3/12/12

“Josh Smith isn’t exactly denying that he asked to be dealt by the Hawks. “I’m here. I have one more left on my deal. We have to see what happens,” Smith told reporters. “I just have to keep playing the way I’m capable of playing and keep doing what I’m doing and not worry about any outside distraction”

Not even a plausible non-denial. Hmmmmm.

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From si.com:

3/12/2012

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported on Thursday that Smith requested a trade. Smith — the All-Star snub who is averaging 17.4 points, 9.6 rebounds, two blocks and 1.5 steals for the 24-17 Hawks – didn’t deny it in a chat with SI.com Sunday night.

“You know, nobody’s been traded [recently], and that’s very rare at the trade deadline, so they have to talk some stuff up,” said Smith, who is slated to earn $12.4 million this season and $13.2 million in 2012-13. “Me personally, if I were to say something directly about getting traded, I would obviously be getting fined by the NBA, so I’m just playing.

“I think people on the outside looking in see that there might be some more growth to me somewhere in another place. I’ve been with this team so long.”

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/03/12/trade.notebook/index.html#ixzz1xRRUsE6m

Sounds worse and worse. More growth in another place?

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The report from Levinson was around the All-Star game as I recall and does not include a quote from Josh. Not to mention that Levenson is in Washington, DC and likely doesn’t have much insight into the day-to-day issues of the team. Lastly, it has been almost 90 days since those March articles and I am pretty sure that MC wrote the first “Josh wants out” blog before the season started. There have been numerous opportunities for him to emphatically put down the rumors (much like Marvin did a few months ago). Heck, dude went at least 3 weeks before holding his exit interview with Sund. That doesn’t sound like anyone gung ho about staying as a Hawk.

KevinM, you said that you are hoping to find a diamond in the rough? Is there a franchise in professional sports who doesn’t want to find a diamond in the rough? I agree that we need a JC2 like player… at the same time, volume shooters are fairly easy to find (IMO). Where’s Rashard McCants? I won’t be upset if they go that path, I just hope that it is someone with a relentless zeal for attacking the rim… we don’t need anymore jump-shooters.

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donte080
June 10th, 2012
3:58 pm

good ole dawg-hole and the fresh ideas he brings by repeating “44 years of playoff frutility” 50 times a day …
_________________

“Frutility,” donte? “Frutility”? Hello?

Didn’t believe it was possible, but you’re actually making yourself look dumber and more obsessed with each post. First you tell lies, then you obsess over my comments. Now you’re making up new words. Oh, and I see you’re still counting my posts each day. What a sicko.

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Just like i say before Josh is done in the ATL.

Trade Josh now for Lopez will be the best option for the Hawks.

Word on the street is a big buzz, so Big Dog must keep real with you guys.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Buddy,

Josh may have requested a trade (behind closed doors), but he has not checked out. He still plays hard, and his alleged trade request has not become a distraction.

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Yeah, I agree, Michael Cunningham another blind and illogical Al Hoford worshipper is responsible for planting a large number of “josh wants to be traded seeds”. His motives are clear. Hes in love With Al Horford and supports the Mediocre Player Movement.

Josh Has never ever said he wanted to be traded. His agent has never ever said he wanted to be traded. This is pure instigation from the Al horford fans who realize one or the other has to go.

TRADE SORRY AS AL HOEFART NOW.

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IT CANT BE TRUE THAT WE PAY AL 12-15 MILLION DOLLARS FOR 12PTS AND 8 RBS. YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING.

IVAN AND ZAZA PUT UP THE SAME NUMBERS FOR MUCH LESS.

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Take the 12 billion we pay Al to whine about playing center and trade him and marvin to LA for Gasol

Then pick up free agent Billups.

then you have

Billups
Teague
JJ
Josh
Gasol

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that isnt the usual iambic pentameter of grandad. well maybe not shakespearian but gdad doesnt usually string together sentences into paragraphs. what he says reads like poetry to me anyway. heh heh

sautee, i think northcyde was really having a hard time finding someone to interface with and had to jump at the first bait he could find. no offense northcyde. enjoy all of your contributions. speaking of which durant will be soon higher than middle of the pack, like maybe the number one second pick ever if gary payton is number one.

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“Better follow the Indiana model that Bird put in place. That is far more attainable than anything else in our present situation.”

One huge difference is that Indiana has its current team AND $14 million of cap space to add another top of the line free agent to their existing squad. Imagine what they would be if they convinced someone like Deron Williams to come play there. The Hawks have zero cap flexibility to add players to the current mix.

With that said, Indiana this year got as far as the Hawks got last year. They are also trying to pursue the no-superstar model, and just like with the Hawks, the odds are overwhelmingly against the Pacers.

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“Since the topic is ALWAYS about Marvin when it comes to this, he figured out that the average career numbers for a #2 pick is

12.9 pts . . 11.5 pts
5.9 rebs . . 5.3 rebs
2.8 asst . . 1.3 asst

Which would give them a 21.6 rating ( according to his system ) . . Marvin 18.1″

All this means is that a lot of teams have missed at #2. Off the top of my head players like Hasheem Thabeet and Darko Milicic probably bring those numbers way down. Let’s face it, if you pick a player at #2 and he is getting you 13 points and 6 boards a game, you have failed. Just because other teams have also screwed up #2 picks doesn’t make it any better.

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The Dwight Howard trade saga continues to engulf the NBA despite the Orlando Magic removing Howard from the trade block. It seems that Dwight has worn out his will to play in Orlanda. More, Dwight’s Back injury makes the trade more doable now than before. The Magic are willing to accept Al and a role player to offset salary concerns.

This time it’s being reported that the Atlanta Hawks were in trade discussions with the Magic about acquiring Howard in exchange for Josh Smith and Joe Johnson. Interestingly enough, the trade talks fell apart on Orlando’s end.

This news comes after the recent revelation that the Magic aren’t seeking young talent in exchange for Howard, a smart strategy employed by New Orleans when losing Chris Paul. Instead the Magic are looking for veteran talent that will keep the team in playoff contention.

This way of thinking is a direct result of a brand new arena and an aging owner.

So the Hawks offer fits what Orlando wants, to a degree. Joe Johnson is a veteran shooting guard that comes with a $124 million contract. Johnson is a 10-year pro with his best years behind him. However, he is exactly the type of player the Magic are looking to acquire.

It is unlikely that Josh Smith would actually be traded to Orlando. It makes no sense for Atlanta to give up Smith when he will be a valuable bargaining chip when attempting to get Howard to re-sign with the Hawks.

Smith also makes no sense for Orlando when they could have All-Star center Al Horford. Horford is only 25 and is immensely popular in Orlando because of his collegiate days with the University of Florida and helping bring the state two National Championships.

Horford is the type of player Orlando could build around.

Obviously Horford and Johnson wouldn’t be enough for Howard. Atlanta would have to throw in draft selections, as well as possibly bring a third team into the deal to further compensate Orlando.

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“What do you think about Melvin’s proposal of trading Al for Tyreke Evans and the #5 pick (which hopefully turns into Drummond)?”

Hard for me to give an informed opinion because I haven’t seen enough of most of these soon-to-be rookies to know how good this draft really is. If Drummond can turn into something better than Roy Hibbert, then it may be worth it. But Hibbert isn’t as good as Al in my opinion, and if that’s all Drummond can be, then maybe not.

I am not a huge fan of Evans’ game, though, and he is also injury prone. He can’t shoot, is turnover-prone, and had a hard time taking a back seat to other players this season. I would hope if the Hawks get him that he can stay healthy long enough to build up his trade value so he can be moved for someone else.

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Talks are restarting – My sources and believe me when i say my buzz on the street Josh, D12, D william, will be playing in Brooklyn in 2013.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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http://youtu.be/OtTQV6taV6c

Can the Hawks get this guy, im really crossing my fingers.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Draft express gives us Andre Drummond best case: Serge Ibaka
Worse case: DeAndre Jordan

I think I would take a stab at that over the others available at 5. No way I look at Dion Waiters, who never started in college. To me, its Marvin Williams all over again.

Najeh, look at the Kings’ stats…..Tyreke the only guy who gave them 2100+ minutes of playing time…..he was a 16/5 man, which is just as good as Joe IMO. He would fit in nicely in a 3 guard lineup. He is agressive to the basket, and while he may be a malcontent about not getting the ball enough, I think he can be taught to do things the right way.
Give them Al or Josh IMO……that deal moves us forward and without taking a step back. We already played a whole year without Al and it is proven that perhaps Al and Josh aren’t a good pair together. I say that about Josh and Marvin too. Maybe the one thing in common is Josh instead of Al.

Man, if I never see another Josh Smith jumper, that could only be my wish for 2012 as a Hawk.

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Ready for this Big Dog: Terrence Jones of UK is being considered as high as 7 on ESPN’s projections, yet he says he has a workout scheduled with #23 Atlanta.
So do the Hawks really need to see if he can be another Marvin Williams?
Best case: Al Harrington
Worse: Marvin

I gotta stay away from Terrence because he’s better down low than at the 3. And this a place where we don’t need to duplicate talent.

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Si.com has the Hawks taking 6’8”, 208 lbs SF Moe Harkless from St. John’s.

The athletic, versatile Harkless would give Atlanta another option at small forward, where shooting guard Joe Johnson started down the stretch this season while longtime starter Marvin Williams moved to the bench.

The Big East Rookie of the Year averaged 15.3 points last season, but shot just 44.5 percent overall and 20.2 percent from three-point range. His impact elsewhere entices front-office types who watched him average 8.6 rebounds, 1.4 blocks and 1.6 steals..

I did not see any of St. John’s games, so its hard to comment. Has anyone seen him play?

Two concerns I have. 1) 208 lbs for a SF is skinny and 2) Shooting 20% from 3. imo, a SF needs to shoot a better %. However, looking at some youtube highlites, he seemed to play defense and rebound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_1alVOQos8/

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KevinM – Please don’t get me started on Marvin, JUST DAM

Terrence Jones Fo Sho want be no Marvin, and i would go out on the limb saying Terrence would win rookie of the year.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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@KevinM

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Terrence 6 ‘9 with excellent ball handle would make Marvin look like Duck Duck, Marvin is a player that get his shot of screams, and not being able create his own shot, Marvin fall more than a blind Man with no cane when trying dribble the ball and take it towards the basket, Terrence ball handling and Balance is of the charts compared to Marvin.

Terrence would be a solid Player in the NBA at SF.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Najeh Davenpoop

June 10th, 2012
10:10 pm

“But in the past 2 years ( under Drew ), his overall efficiency has ranked #54 ( 2012 ) and a dismal for him #67 in ( 2011 ).

Why the dip? Because his usage has decreased along with his assists, FTA, and rebounding.”

Wait, what?

That flies in the face of pretty much everything anyone has ever said about efficiency, ever.

Efficiency decreases with increased usage, because players face more defensive attention and have to create more of their own shots.

Joe’s efficiency is decreasing because he has played through injuries and because he is starting to decline as a player from where he was from 2006-2009.

****************

(( sigh ))

NBA.com evaluates all players based on the efficiency formula: ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) – ((Field Goals Att. – Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. – Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).

In other words Najeh, if a player wants to put up a real good efficiency number, he must do either a lot of things on the court, or do a few things very well at a pretty high volume. This is a different efficiency rating than Hollinger’s PER.

Top 10 in regular season efficiency in 2012

1) Lebron
2) Love
3) Durant
4) D-Howard
5) Bynum

6) Paul
7) Griffin
8] Al Jefferson
9) Gasol
10) Aldridge

Notice that the list is full of high scoring, high rebounding big men, with the exceptions being the high scoring Lebron and Durant, and the high assist man in Chris Paul.

The facts are that Joe Johnson is asked to do less in Drew’s offense, than he was in Woody’s offense. From a shooting standpoint, he total shot % numbers comparable to the 2006 – 07 season, as well as an almost exact eFG%. His rebounding % and his are exactly the same, while his assist percentage was up by 2% in the 2006 – 07 season.

So what was the major difference?

Usage.

2006 – 07: 28.3% usage
2011 – 12: 24.9% usage

Almost 2 more FGA and FTA per game back in 2007 for JJ, compared to 2012.

JJ posted efficiency of over 19 in every year that Woody was the coach. As soon as Drew and his vaunted “Pentagle Offense” comes aboard, his usage goes down and his shot attempts go down almost 2 per game. And despite JJ shooting on par with that 2007 season, his efficiency is 3 points less than it was that year.

With his usage decreased, JJ either has to become a much more efficient shooter, or assume a role of a playmaker and rebounder similar to Iguodala. Either way, his production has to increase somewhere, or his usage needs to go back up.

By the way, despite this easily being Josh Smith’s most inefficient shooting year, this was his most efficient year ( according to those same NBA.com stats ).

Why?

Because with he and Josh basically switching usage rates, Josh was able to put up more numbers across the board.

Example: Who is a more efficient basketball player, according to NBA.com

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Oh OK, I see we are talking about NBA.com’s fantasy stat again, not actual efficiency (as in how efficiently a player scores). Never mind, then.

I would caution against using that stat for anything other than fantasy basketball. Doesn’t really tell you much about actual efficiency. They should call that stat something else.

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I didn’t finish the thought . . .

Example: Who is a more efficient basketball player, according to NBA.com

Josh Smith or Kenneth Faried?

The answer according to NBA.com efficiency is Josh Smith.

The answer according to Hollinger’s PER, is Kenneth Faried.

NBA.com’s efficiency rating vs Hollinger’s PER ( in bold )

1) Lebron . . . Lebron
2) Love . . . Paul
3) Durant . . . Wade
4) D-Howard . . . Durant
5) Bynum . . . Love

6) Paul . . . D-Howard
7) Griffin . . . Griffin
8] Al Jefferson . . . Rose
9) Gasol . . . Westbrook
10) Aldridge . . . Bynum

(( shrugs )) . . two different statistical ways of looking at efficiency. One simply values overall production more

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