Atlanta Hawks: Elite talent, not ‘Detroit model,’ still best path to title
Assuming the favored Heat beat the Celtics tomorrow and advance to the Finals, it will add to the mountain of evidence suggesting the best way to build a championship team is to acquire elite players.
Yeah, I know: radical statement. But before you lump me with Captain Obvious, remember it’s at odds with the “Detroit model” currently favored by the Hawks.
My view is that there are two kinds of NBA teams–those with top 10 players, and those without–and everything an organization does should be in an attempt to be the former rather than the latter. The Hawks’ view is that they can build a team with three not-quite-elite talents and keep knocking at the door until they become championship contenders.
That’s assuming the Hawks do have aspirations of winning an NBA championship, something that’s not always clear. The franchise often seems more preoccupied with dinging its critics and demanding credit for its successes (and there are many) than raising the bar. That perception is fueled by superficial-but-telling tendencies (such as statements boasting about making the playoffs) and the embrace of a team-building philosophy that rarely leads to a championship.
In a league where superstars contend for titles, the Hawks have tried to do it without one.
“It is going to be very hard for us to get that MVP candidate unless you pick one or two [in the draft],” Rick Sund said last summer. “Or unless you happen to have … free-agent money, to get one in free agency. It’s going to be tough, so we are going to have to do it the hard way.”
The Detroit model certainly is that.
There have been 62 NBA championship teams since 1950, and 57 those teams placed at least one player on one of the top two All-NBA teams in the season they won it. In fact, only 15 of those champions failed to have at least one player voted first team All-NBA (a third five-man All-NBA team was added starting with the 1988-89 season).
Furthermore, only 10 of 62 finals runner-up teams failed to have at least one player considered among the top 10 in the league. That means just 15 of 124 teams to make the finals — 12 percent — did so without a player voted to be among the league’s 10 best.
The Heat or Thunder would add to those totals while the Celtics would not. And chances are if Boston advances it’s because Kevin Garnett or Paul Pierce once again rekindle their form from the recent past and/or Rajon Rondo plays to the level that has him on track to reach top 10 status.
The Hawks tried to do build a contender the way the Thunder have done it. They executed the first part of the plan by getting bad enough to get a chance at a high draft pick and lucky enough to land one. The second and most important part, drafting the right players, didn’t go so well.
Making the wrong pick hurts, but it happens. Worse is that instead of cutting their losses and turning Marvin Williams et al into assets they could use to take a shot at acquiring an elite player, the Hawks doubled down. And instead of using Joe Johnson to acquire more assets (draft picks, relatively cheap and productive players, cap space) that hey could parlay into a top 10 player, the Hawks gave him the richest deal in the league.
Now the Hawks aren’t projected to have real cap space until after next season, by which time Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia could be gone, Johnson will be a year older and they’ll have no more than four players under contract. Tough to get an elite talent and complementary players with $15 million or so in cap space.
I understand the calls for a new coach as the answer with this group of Hawks. Sometimes, though, I think that’s the most popular thing because it’s easier to change coaches than acquire a top 10 player. I’d rather have the elite talent–Scott Brooks just beat Gregg Popovich and I’ll go out on a limb and say that had more to do with OKC’s two top 10 players to San Antonio’s one than any Thunder coaching advantage.
The Hawks could try to trade for an established top 10 player. There’s precedent for this with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Julius Erving (who was actually “sold” to the 76ers by the Nets), Tiny Archibald, Moses Malone, Charles Barkley and Jason Kidd.
Going that route would almost certainly mean the Hawks would have to trade away part of the proverbial “core” and perhaps take a step back in the short term. My feeling is this is less likely to happen if Sund returns as GM. After a season in which injuries legitimately hurt their chances to advance in the playoffs, the Hawks under Sund probably would stay the course.
That’s a defensible position insofar as it keeps a good team intact. It’s not a proven plan as far as contending for a championship, unless you believe Johnson, Josh Smith, or Al Horford can be top 10 players next season. Essentially, the best way for the Hawks to become true championship contenders is for one of their players to be good enough to transcend the Detroit model.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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768 comments Add your comment
Liar, Liar, Pants On Fire
June 10th, 2012
8:09 pm
“Al has said more than once through the press and through his dad that either he plays power forward or be traded.”
Never happened. Why lie? We all know that didn’t happen. Nor did the locker room fights you claim. Nor any problems with the chemistry of the team, which Collins said was excellent, BEFORE Al got hurt. Do you have to lie to “convince” somebody of your point? Are you that unsure of yourself. I guess maybe you are.
northcyde
June 10th, 2012
8:19 pm
Actually, from a balance standpoint, the Josh + Zaza for Gasol may be the way to go. Both guys would probably leave ATL ( or be out of ATL’s price range ) come next summer anyway. Zaza may be an on again – off again fan favorite, but we’re talking about improving the team while also preparing for the future.
But the draft is always funny. If a high quality guy freefalls through the draft, the Hawks can’t afford not to take him, simply because they need a position elsewhere.
You just have to wonder how seriously the Hawks take the draft, seeing how many times they’ve missed on players, or trade away guys just for the sake of saving a few dollars.
News Indeed
June 10th, 2012
8:23 pm
From Peachtree Hoops:
“Long before Dwight Howard‘s training camp trade request went public, his preschool classmate and former AAU teammate Josh Smith beat him to the punch, going to Hawks’ management with his trade request before last February’s trade deadline.”
“Sekou’s report indicates that the Hawks basically ignored Smith’s demand last season and sets the precedent that they could do so again this season.”
“However, Smith’s situation will have to be addressed sooner rather than later due to the financial ramifications. Atlanta has heavily invested in Joe Johnson and also has signed Al Horford to a long-term extension. It is going to be debatable whether or not the Hawks can afford to make a reasonable offer to Smith when his contract expires after next season. As more reports leak out, it appears that Smith may not even entertain the idea of remaining in Atlanta when he hits the open market.”
Josh is long gone. Book it.
News Indeed
June 10th, 2012
8:35 pm
From cbssports.com
3/12/12
“Josh Smith isn’t exactly denying that he asked to be dealt by the Hawks. “I’m here. I have one more left on my deal. We have to see what happens,” Smith told reporters. “I just have to keep playing the way I’m capable of playing and keep doing what I’m doing and not worry about any outside distraction”
Not even a plausible non-denial. Hmmmmm.
News Indeed
June 10th, 2012
8:43 pm
From Bleacherreport.com:
By Eric Ball (Featured Columnist) 3/8/2012
“Look no further than his last second trade demand as proof that the straight-out-of-high-school forward still puts himself in front of the team. The Hawks are 23-16 and right in the thick of things in the Eastern Conference and he’s willing to give up on his teammates now?”
“It’s a weak move and makes you wonder if the 26-year-old will ever get it. Kobe doesn’t have time to deal with drama. He has enough of it in his personal life. His only concern is improving on the No. 5 seed they certainly find themselves in”.
Well somebody believes Josh wants to leave.
News Indeed
June 10th, 2012
8:58 pm
From si.com:
3/12/2012
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported on Thursday that Smith requested a trade. Smith — the All-Star snub who is averaging 17.4 points, 9.6 rebounds, two blocks and 1.5 steals for the 24-17 Hawks – didn’t deny it in a chat with SI.com Sunday night.
“You know, nobody’s been traded [recently], and that’s very rare at the trade deadline, so they have to talk some stuff up,” said Smith, who is slated to earn $12.4 million this season and $13.2 million in 2012-13. “Me personally, if I were to say something directly about getting traded, I would obviously be getting fined by the NBA, so I’m just playing.
“I think people on the outside looking in see that there might be some more growth to me somewhere in another place. I’ve been with this team so long.”
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/03/12/trade.notebook/index.html#ixzz1xRRUsE6m
Sounds worse and worse. More growth in another place?
Buddy Grizzard
June 10th, 2012
9:16 pm
“Why dont you propose a trade that send our center Al horford to LA for Gasol and see if that would be a popular trade.”
Absolutely not. I trade Josh for Pau because Josh has already checked out on the Hawks and he’s not going to extend. I don’t trade Al for Pau because Pau only has two years on the back end of his career left on his contract. Al Horford is signed to the best value contract in the NBA and he’s wrapped up for his prime years.
Astro Joe
June 10th, 2012
9:22 pm
The report from Levinson was around the All-Star game as I recall and does not include a quote from Josh. Not to mention that Levenson is in Washington, DC and likely doesn’t have much insight into the day-to-day issues of the team. Lastly, it has been almost 90 days since those March articles and I am pretty sure that MC wrote the first “Josh wants out” blog before the season started. There have been numerous opportunities for him to emphatically put down the rumors (much like Marvin did a few months ago). Heck, dude went at least 3 weeks before holding his exit interview with Sund. That doesn’t sound like anyone gung ho about staying as a Hawk.
KevinM, you said that you are hoping to find a diamond in the rough? Is there a franchise in professional sports who doesn’t want to find a diamond in the rough? I agree that we need a JC2 like player… at the same time, volume shooters are fairly easy to find (IMO). Where’s Rashard McCants? I won’t be upset if they go that path, I just hope that it is someone with a relentless zeal for attacking the rim… we don’t need anymore jump-shooters.
Steven A.
June 10th, 2012
9:22 pm
Hasheem Thabeet—-he is not done yet. Also, give Greg “6 million dollarman” Oden, a very long look.
With limited salary cap space, they have to think outside the box….
DawgNole
June 10th, 2012
9:23 pm
donte080
June 10th, 2012
3:58 pm
good ole dawg-hole and the fresh ideas he brings by repeating “44 years of playoff frutility” 50 times a day …
_________________
“Frutility,” donte? “Frutility”? Hello?
Didn’t believe it was possible, but you’re actually making yourself look dumber and more obsessed with each post. First you tell lies, then you obsess over my comments. Now you’re making up new words. Oh, and I see you’re still counting my posts each day. What a sicko.
Astro Joe
June 10th, 2012
9:27 pm
Buddy, I wouldn’t say that Josh has checked out on the Hawks (although the exit interview thig doesn’t look too good). I think this whole rumor thing has been out there for a while and Josh still produced his best season. I think the Hawks benefited from his “FU” after the All-Star selections. I think Josh’s drive to be considered among the best in the league will keep him motivated… at the same time, it could also motivate him to do things like take an awful hero shot in the final seconds of a close-out game.
BIG DOG
June 10th, 2012
9:46 pm
Just like i say before Josh is done in the ATL.
Trade Josh now for Lopez will be the best option for the Hawks.
Word on the street is a big buzz, so Big Dog must keep real with you guys.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
BIG DOG
June 10th, 2012
9:52 pm
I got paid of that fight last night , word on the strr=eet from inside sources, and the act of delivering or the condition of being delivered.
IN OTHER WORD I GOT PAID
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
O'Brien
June 10th, 2012
9:55 pm
Buddy,
Josh may have requested a trade (behind closed doors), but he has not checked out. He still plays hard, and his alleged trade request has not become a distraction.
glw
June 10th, 2012
9:58 pm
I think Josh is done here too, with Al already signed and suspecting Josh will want in the 15-17 million range, its just a good idea to move Josh this summer.
I would seriously consider offering Josh for Tyreke Evans
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/tyreke-evans-may-not-receive-contract-extension-summer-191100269–nba.html
Wille Stargell
June 10th, 2012
9:59 pm
Yeah, I agree, Michael Cunningham another blind and illogical Al Hoford worshipper is responsible for planting a large number of “josh wants to be traded seeds”. His motives are clear. Hes in love With Al Horford and supports the Mediocre Player Movement.
Josh Has never ever said he wanted to be traded. His agent has never ever said he wanted to be traded. This is pure instigation from the Al horford fans who realize one or the other has to go.
TRADE SORRY AS AL HOEFART NOW.
O'Brien
June 10th, 2012
10:00 pm
ASG and Rick want to talk about injuries? Celtics had no Avery Bradley (his defense on Wade would have helped), no Jeff Green (he averaged 10 pts, 3 rebs with Boston last year), no Jermaine Oneal, Ray Allen was hurt, and Paul Pierce was hurt. But they came within one quarter of making it to the NBA finals.
We couldn’t even get to a game 7 in the first round.
And if they really want to follow the Detroit model, then get a better HC in here.
Wille Stargell
June 10th, 2012
10:01 pm
IT CANT BE TRUE THAT WE PAY AL 12-15 MILLION DOLLARS FOR 12PTS AND 8 RBS. YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING.
IVAN AND ZAZA PUT UP THE SAME NUMBERS FOR MUCH LESS.
BIG DOG
June 10th, 2012
10:03 pm
Lopez coming to the ATL would be beautiful for the Hawks, i never support any athlete that say he want out if playing for the home team, give Josh his wish and make it true, letting him walk for nothing is bad for this organzation and would set them back again, and i no ASG can’t afford that specially at this present time.
Josh should be traded for Lopez now not during the middle of the season on trade deadline.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
GORE VIDAL
June 10th, 2012
10:04 pm
Take the 12 billion we pay Al to whine about playing center and trade him and marvin to LA for Gasol
Then pick up free agent Billups.
then you have
Billups
Teague
JJ
Josh
Gasol
O'Brien
June 10th, 2012
10:04 pm
Najeh, northcyde
What do you think about Melvin’s proposal of trading Al for Tyreke Evans and the #5 pick (which hopefully turns into Drummond)?
doc
June 10th, 2012
10:08 pm
that isnt the usual iambic pentameter of grandad. well maybe not shakespearian but gdad doesnt usually string together sentences into paragraphs. what he says reads like poetry to me anyway. heh heh
sautee, i think northcyde was really having a hard time finding someone to interface with and had to jump at the first bait he could find. no offense northcyde. enjoy all of your contributions. speaking of which durant will be soon higher than middle of the pack, like maybe the number one second pick ever if gary payton is number one.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 10th, 2012
10:10 pm
“But in the past 2 years ( under Drew ), his overall efficiency has ranked #54 ( 2012 ) and a dismal for him #67 in ( 2011 ).
Why the dip? Because his usage has decreased along with his assists, FTA, and rebounding.”
Wait, what?
That flies in the face of pretty much everything anyone has ever said about efficiency, ever.
Efficiency decreases with increased usage, because players face more defensive attention and have to create more of their own shots.
Joe’s efficiency is decreasing because he has played through injuries and because he is starting to decline as a player from where he was from 2006-2009.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 10th, 2012
10:12 pm
“Better follow the Indiana model that Bird put in place. That is far more attainable than anything else in our present situation.”
One huge difference is that Indiana has its current team AND $14 million of cap space to add another top of the line free agent to their existing squad. Imagine what they would be if they convinced someone like Deron Williams to come play there. The Hawks have zero cap flexibility to add players to the current mix.
With that said, Indiana this year got as far as the Hawks got last year. They are also trying to pursue the no-superstar model, and just like with the Hawks, the odds are overwhelmingly against the Pacers.
BIG DOG
June 10th, 2012
10:13 pm
Horford is a good solid player that love the ATL, Josh who is from here want out, so why the Love for a guy who hated here and so much buggering for player who loves the ATL, SMH
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Najeh Davenpoop
June 10th, 2012
10:16 pm
“Since the topic is ALWAYS about Marvin when it comes to this, he figured out that the average career numbers for a #2 pick is
12.9 pts . . 11.5 pts
5.9 rebs . . 5.3 rebs
2.8 asst . . 1.3 asst
Which would give them a 21.6 rating ( according to his system ) . . Marvin 18.1″
All this means is that a lot of teams have missed at #2. Off the top of my head players like Hasheem Thabeet and Darko Milicic probably bring those numbers way down. Let’s face it, if you pick a player at #2 and he is getting you 13 points and 6 boards a game, you have failed. Just because other teams have also screwed up #2 picks doesn’t make it any better.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 10th, 2012
10:18 pm
“LOL Josh quit on this team.”
Played the last three games of the playoffs on a busted knee and guarded the opposing team’s best big man nearly the entire time he was in the game, but sure, whatever.
Talks are restarting
June 10th, 2012
10:21 pm
The Dwight Howard trade saga continues to engulf the NBA despite the Orlando Magic removing Howard from the trade block. It seems that Dwight has worn out his will to play in Orlanda. More, Dwight’s Back injury makes the trade more doable now than before. The Magic are willing to accept Al and a role player to offset salary concerns.
This time it’s being reported that the Atlanta Hawks were in trade discussions with the Magic about acquiring Howard in exchange for Josh Smith and Joe Johnson. Interestingly enough, the trade talks fell apart on Orlando’s end.
This news comes after the recent revelation that the Magic aren’t seeking young talent in exchange for Howard, a smart strategy employed by New Orleans when losing Chris Paul. Instead the Magic are looking for veteran talent that will keep the team in playoff contention.
This way of thinking is a direct result of a brand new arena and an aging owner.
So the Hawks offer fits what Orlando wants, to a degree. Joe Johnson is a veteran shooting guard that comes with a $124 million contract. Johnson is a 10-year pro with his best years behind him. However, he is exactly the type of player the Magic are looking to acquire.
It is unlikely that Josh Smith would actually be traded to Orlando. It makes no sense for Atlanta to give up Smith when he will be a valuable bargaining chip when attempting to get Howard to re-sign with the Hawks.
Smith also makes no sense for Orlando when they could have All-Star center Al Horford. Horford is only 25 and is immensely popular in Orlando because of his collegiate days with the University of Florida and helping bring the state two National Championships.
Horford is the type of player Orlando could build around.
Obviously Horford and Johnson wouldn’t be enough for Howard. Atlanta would have to throw in draft selections, as well as possibly bring a third team into the deal to further compensate Orlando.
BIG DOG
June 10th, 2012
10:22 pm
Lopez for Josh in a straight up deal.
Make a hard push to bring in Gerald Green and draft #23 Terrance Jones or Jefferey Taylor.
Teague, Joe, Terrance Jones, Horford, Lopez
Pargo, Gerald Green, Marvin, Ivan, Zaza
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Najeh Davenpoop
June 10th, 2012
10:26 pm
“What do you think about Melvin’s proposal of trading Al for Tyreke Evans and the #5 pick (which hopefully turns into Drummond)?”
Hard for me to give an informed opinion because I haven’t seen enough of most of these soon-to-be rookies to know how good this draft really is. If Drummond can turn into something better than Roy Hibbert, then it may be worth it. But Hibbert isn’t as good as Al in my opinion, and if that’s all Drummond can be, then maybe not.
I am not a huge fan of Evans’ game, though, and he is also injury prone. He can’t shoot, is turnover-prone, and had a hard time taking a back seat to other players this season. I would hope if the Hawks get him that he can stay healthy long enough to build up his trade value so he can be moved for someone else.
Talks are restarting
June 10th, 2012
10:28 pm
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported on Thursday that Smith requested a trade. Smith
LOL
You MEAN AL HOEFART LOVER MICHAEL CUNNININGHAM.
YEA HE CAN QUOTE JOSH AS SAYING HE WANTS TO LEAVE LIKE AL WAS QUOTED WE HE WAS ADMITTING HE WAS JEALOUS OF JOSH AND WANTED TO BE TRADED.
BIG DOG
June 10th, 2012
10:31 pm
Talks are restarting – My sources and believe me when i say my buzz on the street Josh, D12, D william, will be playing in Brooklyn in 2013.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Talks are restarting
June 10th, 2012
10:31 pm
Do the Al for D12 trade can you really imagine Josh and D12 playing together?
Championship!!
BIG DOG
June 10th, 2012
10:39 pm
http://youtu.be/OtTQV6taV6c
Can the Hawks get this guy, im really crossing my fingers.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
KevinM
June 10th, 2012
10:40 pm
“KevinM, you said that you are hoping to find a diamond in the rough? Is there a franchise in professional sports who doesn’t want to find a diamond in the rough? I agree that we need a JC2 like player… at the same time, volume shooters are fairly easy to find (IMO). Where’s Rashard McCants?”
Yeah, I know AJ, that diamond in the rough stuff is everyone’s wish…but sticking to our draft options, I would like to see which remaining player at 23, (because I have zero faith in Pendergraft, not Sund, moving down to a lottery option), I would like to see someone to give us a scoring punch. I know the Stinger said that T-Mac could be a guy who could give us 30 on a given night, but that wasn’t happening, and LD saw to that as much as T-Mac did with his laid-back attitude.
Have you seen Orlando Johnson at UCSB? Guy is 6′4″, with 6′11″ wing span and averaged 20ppg his last 2 years. He got to the FT line 6X/game, so he could get better at that.
Impressive wing span, and at the top of Round 2. For whatever reason, I like William Buford better than John Jenkins, and Jenkins and Jeff Taylor look like 1st round locks. When I see Taylor at 21 or so, I think I get Darius Miller in the 2nd round and get just as good a player and probably more well-rounded overall.
Ready to hear who Pendergraft&co. is working out. My guess is the priority is not a bench scorer.
OB, wow, that would be a trade of major proportions. I would love to see Evans here working with Teague and Joe in the backcourt. That is a solid 3, and with Sacramento trying to move Evans to the 3, perhaps they have given up on him already for what he was supposed to be after his ROY season. And Tyreke just churns out the number of minutes played. He is a workhorse.
That would be an impressive as long as Josh would be considered the PF he needs to be. If he wants to still stand outside and Kobe-us, then I prefer to let him do that elsewhere.
And if we end up with the 5 pick, I would want a Drummond type to come out of there, because we need a starter from that draft slot. Drummond is the one guy I would want to attempt to get here…the guys around him are not as critical a need.
KevinM
June 10th, 2012
10:48 pm
Draft express gives us Andre Drummond best case: Serge Ibaka
Worse case: DeAndre Jordan
I think I would take a stab at that over the others available at 5. No way I look at Dion Waiters, who never started in college. To me, its Marvin Williams all over again.
Najeh, look at the Kings’ stats…..Tyreke the only guy who gave them 2100+ minutes of playing time…..he was a 16/5 man, which is just as good as Joe IMO. He would fit in nicely in a 3 guard lineup. He is agressive to the basket, and while he may be a malcontent about not getting the ball enough, I think he can be taught to do things the right way.
Give them Al or Josh IMO……that deal moves us forward and without taking a step back. We already played a whole year without Al and it is proven that perhaps Al and Josh aren’t a good pair together. I say that about Josh and Marvin too. Maybe the one thing in common is Josh instead of Al.
Man, if I never see another Josh Smith jumper, that could only be my wish for 2012 as a Hawk.
Talks are restarting
June 10th, 2012
10:51 pm
NBA Trade Rumors: Atlanta Hawks Are Perfect Match for Dwight Howard
By
Tim Daniels
(Featured Columnist) on March 10, 2012
12,466 reads
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BOSTON – MAY 28: Dwight Howard of the Orlando Magic looks on against the Boston Celtics in Game Six of the Eastern Conference Finals during the 2010 NBA Playoffs at TD Garden on May 28, 2010 in Boston, Massachusetts. NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and/or using this Photograph, user is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images License Agreement. (Photo by Jim Rogash/Getty Images)
Mike Ehrmann/Getty Images
There are still more questions than answers when it comes to Dwight Howard’s situation with the Orlando Magic. One team that hasn’t been mentioned until recently is the Atlanta Hawks. They would be a terrific fit for the All-Star defensive wizard.
Ken Berger of CBS Sports reported Orlando is looking for a massive return, similar to what the New York Knicks dealt for Carmelo Anthony last season, if they decide to move Howard. He also mentioned the Hawks as a potential sleeper team to acquire him:
But a more serious contender could emerge in the coming days: the Hawks, who are dealing with disgruntled should-be All-Star Josh Smith’s own reported trade request.
Smith and Al Horford would represent a coup for the Magic considering the alternative of losing Howard for nothing, and Atlanta is Howard’s hometown, where he attended Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy.
Having the hometown edge should give the Hawks a good selling point to Howard, especially when it comes to working out a long-term contract extension. There’s no way they could deal Smith and Horford without some type of commitment in place.
Howard wants to be the main man wherever he lands. There isn’t another city in the league where he would be a bigger star than Atlanta. Returning to where his career started to be the team’s building block would make him a hero.
His supporting cast would also be solid. Joe Johnson is an ideal second scoring threat to keep teams from focusing too much defensive pressure on Howard. Then there’s promising young point guard Jeff Teague and athletic swingman Marvin Williams.
Should the Hawks pursue Howard?
Yes, he’s exactly what they need.
60.9%
No, he’s not worth the asking price.
39.1%
Total votes: 2,143
The roster wouldn’t be on the same level as the Miami Heat, but it’s a good start. The Hawks could fill whatever voids are left once the dust settles.
It’s also a good deal for the Magic. If they continue to hold out hope Howard will sign an extension, they run a serious risk of getting burned at season’s end. They can’t afford to let their best player walk away for nothing.
Smith and Horford would be more than fair value considering Orlando has backed itself into a corner. Both players have the potential to be key pieces to a contender.
All told, it seems like the best option for everybody involved. The Hawks get a franchise cornerstone, the Magic get two valuable contributors instead of nothing and Howard gets to go home. There won’t be another offer on the table that would seemingly work out so well for each side.
So, while the Hawks might be joining the Howard sweepstakes late, don’t count them out.
KevinM
June 10th, 2012
10:53 pm
Ready for this Big Dog: Terrence Jones of UK is being considered as high as 7 on ESPN’s projections, yet he says he has a workout scheduled with #23 Atlanta.
So do the Hawks really need to see if he can be another Marvin Williams?
Best case: Al Harrington
Worse: Marvin
I gotta stay away from Terrence because he’s better down low than at the 3. And this a place where we don’t need to duplicate talent.
Talks are restarting
June 10th, 2012
10:55 pm
KevinM
June 10th, 2012
10:48 pm
Responsible and fair blogging for once. Please dont regress bloggers.
O'Brien
June 10th, 2012
10:59 pm
Si.com has the Hawks taking 6’8”, 208 lbs SF Moe Harkless from St. John’s.
The athletic, versatile Harkless would give Atlanta another option at small forward, where shooting guard Joe Johnson started down the stretch this season while longtime starter Marvin Williams moved to the bench.
The Big East Rookie of the Year averaged 15.3 points last season, but shot just 44.5 percent overall and 20.2 percent from three-point range. His impact elsewhere entices front-office types who watched him average 8.6 rebounds, 1.4 blocks and 1.6 steals..
I did not see any of St. John’s games, so its hard to comment. Has anyone seen him play?
Two concerns I have. 1) 208 lbs for a SF is skinny and 2) Shooting 20% from 3. imo, a SF needs to shoot a better %. However, looking at some youtube highlites, he seemed to play defense and rebound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_1alVOQos8/
KevinM
June 10th, 2012
11:00 pm
Talks, if not happy, move along……you’re not paying the tab here, MC is.
All your stuff has been on here many times.
BIG DOG
June 10th, 2012
11:02 pm
KevinM – Please don’t get me started on Marvin, JUST DAM
Terrence Jones Fo Sho want be no Marvin, and i would go out on the limb saying Terrence would win rookie of the year.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Talks are restarting
June 10th, 2012
11:04 pm
MC isnt paying a dam thing and neither are you. If you regret that I have freedom of speech and can right to blog as I please the to hell with you and your censorship.
All your garbage and Al horford support has been here daily. So go swallow a turd.
Talks are restarting
June 10th, 2012
11:05 pm
@KevinM
Talks are restarting
June 10th, 2012
11:07 pm
The advertisers are paying to market to fans just like me so shut up KevinM
BIG DOG
June 10th, 2012
11:15 pm
Terrence 6 ‘9 with excellent ball handle would make Marvin look like Duck Duck, Marvin is a player that get his shot of screams, and not being able create his own shot, Marvin fall more than a blind Man with no cane when trying dribble the ball and take it towards the basket, Terrence ball handling and Balance is of the charts compared to Marvin.
Terrence would be a solid Player in the NBA at SF.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Talks are restarting
June 10th, 2012
11:22 pm
We dont need a SF we have JJ we need a CENTER
northcyde
June 10th, 2012
11:37 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
June 10th, 2012
10:10 pm
“But in the past 2 years ( under Drew ), his overall efficiency has ranked #54 ( 2012 ) and a dismal for him #67 in ( 2011 ).
Why the dip? Because his usage has decreased along with his assists, FTA, and rebounding.”
Wait, what?
That flies in the face of pretty much everything anyone has ever said about efficiency, ever.
Efficiency decreases with increased usage, because players face more defensive attention and have to create more of their own shots.
Joe’s efficiency is decreasing because he has played through injuries and because he is starting to decline as a player from where he was from 2006-2009.
****************
(( sigh ))
NBA.com evaluates all players based on the efficiency formula: ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) – ((Field Goals Att. – Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. – Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).
In other words Najeh, if a player wants to put up a real good efficiency number, he must do either a lot of things on the court, or do a few things very well at a pretty high volume. This is a different efficiency rating than Hollinger’s PER.
Top 10 in regular season efficiency in 2012
1) Lebron
2) Love
3) Durant
4) D-Howard
5) Bynum
6) Paul
7) Griffin
8] Al Jefferson
9) Gasol
10) Aldridge
Notice that the list is full of high scoring, high rebounding big men, with the exceptions being the high scoring Lebron and Durant, and the high assist man in Chris Paul.
The facts are that Joe Johnson is asked to do less in Drew’s offense, than he was in Woody’s offense. From a shooting standpoint, he total shot % numbers comparable to the 2006 – 07 season, as well as an almost exact eFG%. His rebounding % and his are exactly the same, while his assist percentage was up by 2% in the 2006 – 07 season.
So what was the major difference?
Usage.
2006 – 07: 28.3% usage
2011 – 12: 24.9% usage
Almost 2 more FGA and FTA per game back in 2007 for JJ, compared to 2012.
JJ posted efficiency of over 19 in every year that Woody was the coach. As soon as Drew and his vaunted “Pentagle Offense” comes aboard, his usage goes down and his shot attempts go down almost 2 per game. And despite JJ shooting on par with that 2007 season, his efficiency is 3 points less than it was that year.
With his usage decreased, JJ either has to become a much more efficient shooter, or assume a role of a playmaker and rebounder similar to Iguodala. Either way, his production has to increase somewhere, or his usage needs to go back up.
By the way, despite this easily being Josh Smith’s most inefficient shooting year, this was his most efficient year ( according to those same NBA.com stats ).
Why?
Because with he and Josh basically switching usage rates, Josh was able to put up more numbers across the board.
Example: Who is a more efficient basketball player, according to NBA.com
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
June 10th, 2012
11:39 pm
I bet ASG is praying that OKC wins ring so Gearon Jr can boast how we season swept (1 game) the champs
Najeh Davenpoop
June 10th, 2012
11:45 pm
Oh OK, I see we are talking about NBA.com’s fantasy stat again, not actual efficiency (as in how efficiently a player scores). Never mind, then.
I would caution against using that stat for anything other than fantasy basketball. Doesn’t really tell you much about actual efficiency. They should call that stat something else.