Atlanta Hawks: Elite talent, not ‘Detroit model,’ still best path to title
Assuming the favored Heat beat the Celtics tomorrow and advance to the Finals, it will add to the mountain of evidence suggesting the best way to build a championship team is to acquire elite players.
Yeah, I know: radical statement. But before you lump me with Captain Obvious, remember it’s at odds with the “Detroit model” currently favored by the Hawks.
My view is that there are two kinds of NBA teams–those with top 10 players, and those without–and everything an organization does should be in an attempt to be the former rather than the latter. The Hawks’ view is that they can build a team with three not-quite-elite talents and keep knocking at the door until they become championship contenders.
That’s assuming the Hawks do have aspirations of winning an NBA championship, something that’s not always clear. The franchise often seems more preoccupied with dinging its critics and demanding credit for its successes (and there are many) than raising the bar. That perception is fueled by superficial-but-telling tendencies (such as statements boasting about making the playoffs) and the embrace of a team-building philosophy that rarely leads to a championship.
In a league where superstars contend for titles, the Hawks have tried to do it without one.
“It is going to be very hard for us to get that MVP candidate unless you pick one or two [in the draft],” Rick Sund said last summer. “Or unless you happen to have … free-agent money, to get one in free agency. It’s going to be tough, so we are going to have to do it the hard way.”
The Detroit model certainly is that.
There have been 62 NBA championship teams since 1950, and 57 those teams placed at least one player on one of the top two All-NBA teams in the season they won it. In fact, only 15 of those champions failed to have at least one player voted first team All-NBA (a third five-man All-NBA team was added starting with the 1988-89 season).
Furthermore, only 10 of 62 finals runner-up teams failed to have at least one player considered among the top 10 in the league. That means just 15 of 124 teams to make the finals — 12 percent — did so without a player voted to be among the league’s 10 best.
The Heat or Thunder would add to those totals while the Celtics would not. And chances are if Boston advances it’s because Kevin Garnett or Paul Pierce once again rekindle their form from the recent past and/or Rajon Rondo plays to the level that has him on track to reach top 10 status.
The Hawks tried to do build a contender the way the Thunder have done it. They executed the first part of the plan by getting bad enough to get a chance at a high draft pick and lucky enough to land one. The second and most important part, drafting the right players, didn’t go so well.
Making the wrong pick hurts, but it happens. Worse is that instead of cutting their losses and turning Marvin Williams et al into assets they could use to take a shot at acquiring an elite player, the Hawks doubled down. And instead of using Joe Johnson to acquire more assets (draft picks, relatively cheap and productive players, cap space) that hey could parlay into a top 10 player, the Hawks gave him the richest deal in the league.
Now the Hawks aren’t projected to have real cap space until after next season, by which time Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia could be gone, Johnson will be a year older and they’ll have no more than four players under contract. Tough to get an elite talent and complementary players with $15 million or so in cap space.
I understand the calls for a new coach as the answer with this group of Hawks. Sometimes, though, I think that’s the most popular thing because it’s easier to change coaches than acquire a top 10 player. I’d rather have the elite talent–Scott Brooks just beat Gregg Popovich and I’ll go out on a limb and say that had more to do with OKC’s two top 10 players to San Antonio’s one than any Thunder coaching advantage.
The Hawks could try to trade for an established top 10 player. There’s precedent for this with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Julius Erving (who was actually “sold” to the 76ers by the Nets), Tiny Archibald, Moses Malone, Charles Barkley and Jason Kidd.
Going that route would almost certainly mean the Hawks would have to trade away part of the proverbial “core” and perhaps take a step back in the short term. My feeling is this is less likely to happen if Sund returns as GM. After a season in which injuries legitimately hurt their chances to advance in the playoffs, the Hawks under Sund probably would stay the course.
That’s a defensible position insofar as it keeps a good team intact. It’s not a proven plan as far as contending for a championship, unless you believe Johnson, Josh Smith, or Al Horford can be top 10 players next season. Essentially, the best way for the Hawks to become true championship contenders is for one of their players to be good enough to transcend the Detroit model.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
768 comments Add your comment
Buddy Grizzard
June 10th, 2012
9:23 am
“I gave you a lineup of the Hawks players [I thought] should have been playing [in] the 4th quarter and overtime of Game 3 vs. the Celtics in the 2012 playoffs.”
Right, what you said was:
“McGrady, not Pargo, should have been playing in lieu of Hinrich.”
But McGrady never came off the floor in the 4th quarter. Neither did Joe or Teague. It comes down to a question of whether LD should have used an end-of-the-bench reserve (Pargo) over a part-time starter we traded two first round picks to obtain (Hinrich). The results were a disaster and likely cost the Hawks their season. In the first 4:21 of the 4th quarter, the Hawks were outscored by 7 points. LD got Pargo out of the game, but the damage was done.
Melvin
June 10th, 2012
9:23 am
OB,
If Drummond is gone, you take the best player available. You can always trade that player or another player later for a position of need. Like OKC did with Jeff Green.
Buddy Grizzard
June 10th, 2012
9:27 am
This shows a pattern of LD failing to put his best players on the floor when it matters. Last year against Chicago’s young, mobile, athletic front line, LD played the corpse of Jason Collins when Zaza was available. Zaza was in the top ten in rebounding percentage for the second time in three seasons in 2010-2011, one of only 5 players to accomplish that feat. And yet LD had Josh Powell ahead of Zaza in the lineup at the All-Star break and started Collins ahead of him in the playoffs. Does anybody have any question about who is the better player between Collins and Zaza? Then why did LD play Collins against Chicago? Does anybody have any question about who is the better player between Pargo and Hinrich? Then why did LD play Pargo ahead of Hinrich in the 4th quarter of a pivotal playoff game?
doc
June 10th, 2012
9:40 am
there is a model we could have used that wasnt the flawed one year wonder maximized only by billy knight’s stupidity of giving sheen to them for a bad song. it would have involved excellent experienced coaching and superior gm work to manage money and egos. it would be a philosophy of protecting your own assets, providing stability to everyone looking in or inside as a part of it and building from within, including coaching up young players. it is called the san antonio model.
last look the san antonio model doesnt involve trading away two number one draft picks to cover a bad contract decision nor adding to the insult of the failure of coaching to not pull the trigger within and make a switch to a younger player, as ready as he is going to be by sitting and watching and within months providing as good a point guard play as we have seen in over a decade. nor is it selling number two picks for money, nor throwing away a second rounder for a long shot foreign player even euros never heard of. this is all about the entertaining culture of the basg and a fly by the seat of your pants management agenda of an nba franchise.
Melvin
June 10th, 2012
9:41 am
Marquis Teague said Atlanta is one of the teams that his agent spoke to. I wonder if they would really considered picking him?
http://www.hoopsworld.com/marquis-teague-says-he-can-shoot-too
Marcus
June 10th, 2012
9:56 am
Looking back @ ‘06 draft *yeesh* Lotta stiffs in 1st round, excepting LaMarcus Aldridge, who went 3 picks ahead of us. Shelden W. was a bust, but hindsight, not much as expected has come from 1st rounders that year.
2005 could have turned our franchise around … no guarantee that we would have been in position (record-wise) to get Horford in ‘07, but it is what it is.
Buddy Grizzard
June 10th, 2012
10:26 am
If the Hawks draft Wroten and Teague is still on the board, that will be the final straw for me.
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
10:52 am
Holy crap! T-s was off his meds last night, eh?
For the record this is my first post since Friday night at 9:41.
Any Sautee post since then was the troll.
Northcyde, you are a gullible man to have believed that T-s was me. Hell, the content should have told you. And would you truly believe I’d want to trade Horford for Deandre Jordan? Seriously?
C’est la vie
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
12:10 pm
Im still shaking my head at northcyde thinking i was Super blogger T.S.!
WTF was that?
What were you thinking northcyde?
I would not pull the trigger on the DeAndre Jordan trade be case im holding out hope that one day Al will accept his role on this team and embrace the defensive potential of his 6′ 10 1/2″ 265lb frame brings to the game.
Al is too slow, and awkward to play power forward and lacks the proper offensive tools to have an impact role, so id prefer he uses all that size and weight to help his team defenisively although he has rejected helping the team in that way. I wish he was more of a team player than thinking about his own role and stats.
Selfishness aside if he were as talented as Josh I would entertain the thought. But he is not. Center is his position with minor minutes at power forward.
Moving forward if and when we find a suitable trade for Al I will only support 1 of the following
Howard
Gasol
Bynum
Players like Chandler, Amare,Perkins are about the same as Al ( I know Amare punked Al out and embarrassed the hawks), and it makes me think these are more lateral trades than upgrades.
Al needs to embrace defending the rim. Period! I agree he is very soft. A trade with any of the 3 mentioned above coupled with Smoove as Josh will take us to higher ground.
Northcyde thats my story no matter which imposter or troll comes along and says otherwise.
Go Hawks!
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
12:12 pm
*I would not pull the trigger on the DeAndre Jordan trade because im holding out hope
i_am_soulstar
June 10th, 2012
1:13 pm
I’d rather see Hawks get rid of JJ (bad contract for his level of production) and take a step back than to see them waste the best years of Josh (if he stays) and Al. Trade Marvin for a couple of late first rounders. The focus should be on rebuilding around Josh, Al, and possibly Teague. If Josh wants to leave, his trade value is the highest it’s ever been. We don’t necessarily need to blow it up, but maybe take a few steps back
It has become more clear than ever before that the Detroit model is not going to work.
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
12:10 and 12:12 are obviously our troll, who must have run out of ideas for his own handle, so he is compelled to borrow mine.
I truly feel sorry for you T-s. I mean that. To carry that kind of rage around is an awful burden.
I hope you can find whatever it is that you need.
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
1:32 pm
Clearly I am being impersonated at 1:27 and as I said to the trolls face what I said at 12:10 Stands
no matter what you troll(s) do. I know what I am saying and what I am talking about. You guys obviously want to discredit my thoughts which must be having an impact.
C’est la vie
KevinM
June 10th, 2012
1:37 pm
I’ve been hoping that Teague would be there at 23, but with Boston having 2 picks, I don’t think they let him pass.
Other choice would be the quiet assassin, Doron Lamb.
And Golden State needs to make some noise. Jerry West is going to have major input in their decisions. What is crummy is we have a GM in limbo who isn’t sure if he wants to go one more year.
Our organization somehow gets to the playoffs and promotes that as enough justification to do things how they do. How many years have been wasted waiting for our guys to play better than they are?
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
1:40 pm
If the troll continues to use my handle I will be forced to use one of my 5 other handles that I use on times like these, or to make you guys think that many people are sharing my ideas, when infact its me under 5 different handles. See if you can tell when I’m undercover or down low.
By the way. That was not me at 1:32. That was T.S.
KevinM
June 10th, 2012
1:40 pm
We’ll be fortunate to get a lottery pick for Josh. No way Sund trades his all-stars.
It’s comical to think that now the ASG want to move Marvin. He’s been here 7 years and you’re just deciding his pick may not have panned out?
Fire the guy that agreed to the player option for 2013 against no competition……idiocy.
X-factor
June 10th, 2012
1:43 pm
I think this teague may be better than the scrub we picked up. I wish all these projects and experiments would end. Lets just get a player who can play. Cancel the Teague and Al type experiments.
Teague is never going to be a point guard and Al will never be a center. These experiments are whats killing the hawks. Lets get a proven talent
X-factor
June 10th, 2012
1:46 pm
I agree with the guys who say we need to trade Al now to shed that 12-17million we are paying for 12pts 8rbs.
Why in the hell are we paying millions upon millions for 12pts and 8 rbs? Didnt Ivan and Zaza do the same thing for less?
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
1:46 pm
Im still shaking my head at northcyde thinking i was Super blogger T.S.!
WTF was that?
What were you thinking northcyde?
I would not pull the trigger on the DeAndre Jordan trade be case im holding out hope that one day Al will accept his role on this team and embrace the defensive potential of his 6′ 10 1/2″ 265lb frame brings to the game.
Al is too slow, and awkward to play power forward and lacks the proper offensive tools to have an impact role, so id prefer he uses all that size and weight to help his team defenisively although he has rejected helping the team in that way. I wish he was more of a team player than thinking about his own role and stats.
Selfishness aside if he were as talented as Josh I would entertain the thought. But he is not. Center is his position with minor minutes at power forward.
Moving forward if and when we find a suitable trade for Al I will only support 1 of the following
Howard
Gasol
Bynum
Players like Chandler, Amare,Perkins are about the same as Al ( I know Amare punked Al out and embarrassed the hawks), and it makes me think these are more lateral trades than upgrades.
Al needs to embrace defending the rim. Period! I agree he is very soft. A trade with any of the 3 mentioned above coupled with Smoove as Josh will take us to higher ground.
Northcyde thats my story no matter which imposter or troll comes along and says otherwise.
Go Hawks!
———————————-
So saith the troll
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
1:47 pm
*I would not pull the trigger on the DeAndre Jordan trade because im holding out hope
—————————————————————————————-
So saith the troll
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
1:48 pm
Clearly I am being impersonated at 1:27 and as I said to the trolls face what I said at 12:10 Stands
no matter what you troll(s) do. I know what I am saying and what I am talking about. You guys obviously want to discredit my thoughts which must be having an impact.
C’est la vie
——————————————————————–
So saith the troll
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
1:50 pm
If the troll continues to use my handle I will be forced to use one of my 5 other handles that I use on times like these, or to make you guys think that many people are sharing my ideas, when infact its me under 5 different handles. See if you can tell when I’m undercover or down low.
By the way. That was not me at 1:32. That was T.S.
——————————————————————————
So saith the troll
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
1:50 pm
I think this teague may be better than the scrub we picked up. I wish all these projects and experiments would end. Lets just get a player who can play. Cancel the Teague and Al type experiments.
Teague is never going to be a point guard and Al will never be a center. These experiments are whats killing the hawks. Lets get a proven talent
——————————————————————————–
So saith the troll
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
1:51 pm
I agree with the guys who say we need to trade Al now to shed that 12-17million we are paying for 12pts 8rbs.
Why in the hell are we paying millions upon millions for 12pts and 8 rbs? Didnt Ivan and Zaza do the same thing for less?
—————————————————————————————————-
So saith the troll
X-factor
June 10th, 2012
1:53 pm
Co-signing bigtime good post:
“O’Brien while I do agree that Al is injury prone missing entire playoff series, 90% of the season and 20 sent of the season means Al is injured too often at this stage of his career and this will only become worse and worse as Al gets older. Al is about peaked I trhink Al would be a nice role player or a nice bench guy but really, hes not the guy you want leading your charge. 12pts 8 rbs…. no, not Al. Any team that has Al as its leader is going down.”
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
1:55 pm
Co-signing bigtime good post:
“O’Brien while I do agree that Al is injury prone missing entire playoff series, 90% of the season and 20 sent of the season means Al is injured too often at this stage of his career and this will only become worse and worse as Al gets older. Al is about peaked I trhink Al would be a nice role player or a nice bench guy but really, hes not the guy you want leading your charge. 12pts 8 rbs…. no, not Al. Any team that has Al as its leader is going down.
————————————————————————————
So saith the troll
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
1:58 pm
Subtlety (AKA Sautee)
June 10th, 2012
1:47 pm
*I would not pull the trigger on the DeAndre Jordan trade because im holding out hope
—————————————————————————————-
So saith the troll Subtlety (AKA Sautee)
June 10th, 2012
1:48 pm
Clearly I am being impersonated at 1:27 and as I said to the trolls face what I said at 12:10 Stands
no matter what you troll(s) do. I know what I am saying and what I am talking about. You guys obviously want to discredit my thoughts which must be having an impact.
C’est la vie
——————————————————————–
So saith the troll Subtlety (AKA Sautee)
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
1:50 pm
If the troll continues to use my handle I will be forced to use one of my 5 other handles that I use on times like these, or to make you guys think that many people are sharing my ideas, when infact its me under 5 different handles. See if you can tell when I’m undercover or down low.
By the way. That was not me at 1:32. That was T.S.
——————————————————————————
So saith the troll Subtlety (AKA Sautee)
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
1:50 pm
I think this teague may be better than the scrub we picked up. I wish all these projects and experiments would end. Lets just get a player who can play. Cancel the Teague and Al type experiments.
Teague is never going to be a point guard and Al will never be a center. These experiments are whats killing the hawks. Lets get a proven talent
——————————————————————————–
So saith the troll Subtlety (AKA Sautee)
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
1:51 pm
I agree with the guys who say we need to trade Al now to shed that 12-17million we are paying for 12pts 8rbs.
Why in the hell are we paying millions upon millions for 12pts and 8 rbs? Didnt Ivan and Zaza do the same thing for less?
—————————————————————————————————-
So saith the troll Subtlety (AKA Sautee)
KevinM
June 10th, 2012
1:58 pm
You don’t go out and acquire a player after he has landed a big contract.
We’re frickin’ strapped to the neck in contracts already.
We overpay to keep our own guys….and you give them less responsiblity.
Total ineptness. Joe is laughing at all the clowns associated with management, as his agent. I wouldn’t do more either because its not expected.
We wasted another year, because the 7 dwarfs wouldn’t fill the void left by Al. Did OKC stand pat when Maynor went down? Did SA stop searching for talent when Ginobili went down for a chunk of games?
We’re watching a product that has limited resources because they don’t know what smart decisions are.
I guarantee you Chicago won’t be sniveling in their offices because DRose is down. They will get resources to fix the problem before camp starts.
We’re trying to figure out if we need to grab Collins and Dampier before they leave town.
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
2:03 pm
Thats right! if we trade Al who on our team can make up his 12pts 8rbs? Thats a huge 12million dollar void.
We are playing Al 12 million Dollars to do what none of the other player can do and that is average 12pts 8 rbs.
Thats a void the 7 dwarfs can fill….. well maybe snow white can. How much are we paying her?
KevinM
June 10th, 2012
2:03 pm
Anybody wanna wager between Al or Josh who is an all-star next year? All this disdain for Al, yet somehow the league votes him on the all-star team. Heck, if Noah could add 4-6 points his stats, he would be an all-star over Al.
But Josh’s best chance was this past year, and Rondo took Joe’s slot.
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
2:04 pm
Thats right! if we trade Al who on our team can make up his 12pts 8rbs? Thats a huge 12million dollar void.
We are playing Al 12 million Dollars to do what none of the other player can do and that is average 12pts 8 rbs.
Thats a void the 7 dwarfs can fill….. well maybe snow white can. How much are we paying her?
So saith the troll
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
2:07 pm
Al may have been on the all star team but hes only the 3rd or 4th best player on this team. He may have some self centered awards but this is a team game and Al doesnt get that. This was a much better team with out Al.
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
2:11 pm
Al may have been on the all star team but hes only the 3rd or 4th best player on this team. He may have some self centered awards but this is a team game and Al doesnt get that. This was a much better team with out Al.
So saith the troll
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
2:13 pm
“Al, yet somehow the league votes him on the all-star team.”
WRONG
The leagues fans have never ever, voted Al to an All star team. and Never will
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
2:17 pm
Thats right! if we trade Al who on our team can make up his 12pts 8rbs? Thats a huge 12million dollar void.
We are playing Al 12 million Dollars to do what none of the other player can do and that is average 12pts 8 rbs.
Thats a void the 7 dwarfs can fill….. well maybe snow white can. How much are we paying her?
———————————————————————————————————————-
So saith the troll
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
2:17 pm
Al, is an former Coach pick as an allstar addition. Its true the fans dont see his contributions of 12 pts 8rbs as all star material.
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
2:18 pm
Al, is an former Coach pick as an allstar addition. Its true the fans dont see his contributions of 12 pts 8rbs as all star material.
————————————————————————————
So saith the troll
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
2:19 pm
“Al, yet somehow the league votes him on the all-star team.”
WRONG
The leagues fans have never ever, voted Al to an All star team. and Never will
———————————————————————————————–
So saith the troll
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
2:19 pm
No one knows I am Subtlety I am so dam smart
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
2:20 pm
No one knows I am Subtlety I am so dam smart
_______________________________________________________________________________
So saith the troll
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
2:20 pm
Dang, this is one dumb troll. Can’t even figure out the format. LOL.
Question?
June 10th, 2012
2:25 pm
Is Sautee a the troll or is Subtlety the troll Which or them is the troll? or Are they both the same troll or 2 different troll?
How many trolls are there?
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
2:27 pm
We are both the same troll
___________________________________________-
So saith the troll
Stupid
June 10th, 2012
2:28 pm
I ve never seen a troll talk to himself what the fck is this chiit?
Stupid
June 10th, 2012
2:35 pm
12,000.000 / 12 pt 8rbs = 1,000,000 per point average plus 0.66 rbs
I think we can do better investing than Al horford
Subtlety
June 10th, 2012
2:37 pm
12,000.000 / 12 pt 8rbs = 1,000,000 per point average plus 0.66 rbs
I think we can do better investing than Al horford
_________________________________________________________
Thus saith the troll
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
2:39 pm
that prove he is the troll because he said “thus saith” and I always say ” so saith”
See, I am not me but its me not impersonating me.
Buddy Grizzard
June 10th, 2012
2:46 pm
“Al may have been on the all star team but hes only the 3rd or 4th best player on this team.”
That’s funny because Al had as many 4th quarter field goals in the playoffs as Josh and Joe combined.
Just Joe
June 10th, 2012
2:51 pm
What’s the scouting report on Royce White, besides the anxiety issues? Dude measured out at 6′8″ 260 lbs, with a 7′ wingspan. Appears to have a tight handle. Nice spin moves and a good crossover. 33% from 3. 50% free throws??? I’d still play him over Marvin.
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
3:06 pm
yes I agree guys. After Josh and then JJ, I think Marvin and Al about even, depending on who you ask. But they are both bursts and project cases so whether you make Marvin the 3rd best player or Al this is a gap between the level of Josh and JJ to the level of Marvin and Al – Im just saying