Atlanta Hawks: Elite talent, not ‘Detroit model,’ still best path to title
Assuming the favored Heat beat the Celtics tomorrow and advance to the Finals, it will add to the mountain of evidence suggesting the best way to build a championship team is to acquire elite players.
Yeah, I know: radical statement. But before you lump me with Captain Obvious, remember it’s at odds with the “Detroit model” currently favored by the Hawks.
My view is that there are two kinds of NBA teams–those with top 10 players, and those without–and everything an organization does should be in an attempt to be the former rather than the latter. The Hawks’ view is that they can build a team with three not-quite-elite talents and keep knocking at the door until they become championship contenders.
That’s assuming the Hawks do have aspirations of winning an NBA championship, something that’s not always clear. The franchise often seems more preoccupied with dinging its critics and demanding credit for its successes (and there are many) than raising the bar. That perception is fueled by superficial-but-telling tendencies (such as statements boasting about making the playoffs) and the embrace of a team-building philosophy that rarely leads to a championship.
In a league where superstars contend for titles, the Hawks have tried to do it without one.
“It is going to be very hard for us to get that MVP candidate unless you pick one or two [in the draft],” Rick Sund said last summer. “Or unless you happen to have … free-agent money, to get one in free agency. It’s going to be tough, so we are going to have to do it the hard way.”
The Detroit model certainly is that.
There have been 62 NBA championship teams since 1950, and 57 those teams placed at least one player on one of the top two All-NBA teams in the season they won it. In fact, only 15 of those champions failed to have at least one player voted first team All-NBA (a third five-man All-NBA team was added starting with the 1988-89 season).
Furthermore, only 10 of 62 finals runner-up teams failed to have at least one player considered among the top 10 in the league. That means just 15 of 124 teams to make the finals — 12 percent — did so without a player voted to be among the league’s 10 best.
The Heat or Thunder would add to those totals while the Celtics would not. And chances are if Boston advances it’s because Kevin Garnett or Paul Pierce once again rekindle their form from the recent past and/or Rajon Rondo plays to the level that has him on track to reach top 10 status.
The Hawks tried to do build a contender the way the Thunder have done it. They executed the first part of the plan by getting bad enough to get a chance at a high draft pick and lucky enough to land one. The second and most important part, drafting the right players, didn’t go so well.
Making the wrong pick hurts, but it happens. Worse is that instead of cutting their losses and turning Marvin Williams et al into assets they could use to take a shot at acquiring an elite player, the Hawks doubled down. And instead of using Joe Johnson to acquire more assets (draft picks, relatively cheap and productive players, cap space) that hey could parlay into a top 10 player, the Hawks gave him the richest deal in the league.
Now the Hawks aren’t projected to have real cap space until after next season, by which time Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia could be gone, Johnson will be a year older and they’ll have no more than four players under contract. Tough to get an elite talent and complementary players with $15 million or so in cap space.
I understand the calls for a new coach as the answer with this group of Hawks. Sometimes, though, I think that’s the most popular thing because it’s easier to change coaches than acquire a top 10 player. I’d rather have the elite talent–Scott Brooks just beat Gregg Popovich and I’ll go out on a limb and say that had more to do with OKC’s two top 10 players to San Antonio’s one than any Thunder coaching advantage.
The Hawks could try to trade for an established top 10 player. There’s precedent for this with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Julius Erving (who was actually “sold” to the 76ers by the Nets), Tiny Archibald, Moses Malone, Charles Barkley and Jason Kidd.
Going that route would almost certainly mean the Hawks would have to trade away part of the proverbial “core” and perhaps take a step back in the short term. My feeling is this is less likely to happen if Sund returns as GM. After a season in which injuries legitimately hurt their chances to advance in the playoffs, the Hawks under Sund probably would stay the course.
That’s a defensible position insofar as it keeps a good team intact. It’s not a proven plan as far as contending for a championship, unless you believe Johnson, Josh Smith, or Al Horford can be top 10 players next season. Essentially, the best way for the Hawks to become true championship contenders is for one of their players to be good enough to transcend the Detroit model.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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768 comments Add your comment
Buster Douglass
June 9th, 2012
11:20 pm
I’ll whoop Al sorry As.
Buddy Grizzard
June 9th, 2012
11:20 pm
Yeah, he was a true leader when he was quitting on plays to argue with refs in Game 6.
“No wonder why Reggie Evans and Kenyon Martin got major minutes during the playoffs.”
DeAndre Jordan is available for trades!
“2) Why not put Hinrich back into the game early in the 4th, when it was obvious that Pargo wasn’t going to give you anything that night?”
Well, that’s the million dollar question, isn’t it? Pargo was complete garbage the entire series. If LD plays KH “the scoreless wonder” in the 4th instead of Pargo (-7 in 4:21 in the 4th according to PopcornMachine), maybe he prevents one of those Rondo layups, the Hawks win in regulation, and this series goes to a 7th game at Phillips. What if?
“Until Drew learns how to manage rotations, limit that dude’s options.”
And this is why my biggest priority for the offseason is for the Hawks replace the following players on the roster: Collins, Pargo, Green, Radmanovic. These players are garbage. Collins and Pargo in particular have cost the Hawks the chance of advancing in the playoffs the last two years.
Floyd Money Mayweather
June 9th, 2012
11:22 pm
You guys cant tell me Al aint too soft.
Buddy Grizzard
June 9th, 2012
11:26 pm
“Neither Pargo or Kurt should have been playing the idiot should have had Teague in the game.”
Teague also played the entire 4th quarter of Game 3.
I Hate Al Horford
June 9th, 2012
11:26 pm
My butt hurts. Daddy used to touch me.
Sonny Liston
June 9th, 2012
11:27 pm
I do that Al for DeAngelo trade. What can we lose? Hes a better fighter than Al, plus we can Always go to Zaza or Ivan, both of them proved they are every bit as good as Al
Time to break up the experiments like Teague and Al. Go get rondo and De Angelo
Rondo
Green
JJ
Josh
DeAngelo
High-sider
June 9th, 2012
11:28 pm
@Clarification
BTW, are your “hands [still] folded in benediction”? I was just wondering.
Al Hoford
June 9th, 2012
11:29 pm
My butt hurts.Tito used to touch me.
Sautee
June 9th, 2012
11:30 pm
DeAndre Jordan is available for trades!> pimping Al stats
northcyde
June 9th, 2012
11:30 pm
I just don’t see KG retiring right now. Dude was a top 10 player in these playoffs. He could easily come back. Ray Allen might retire though. It’ll be interesting to see if he wants to come back.
Boston also has an insane amount of cap room this summer. 20+ million if Garnett and Allen are renounced.
Pierce
Rondo
Bass ( if he doesn’t opt out of his 4 million due next year )
Bradley
JaJuan Johnson
. . . are the only ones under contract
Stiemsma is a restricted free agent this year. I’d personally let him walk to whomever wants him.
Jeff Green may opt to return to Boston, if no one else throws a lot of money at him . . and if Boston even wants him. He’d be a nice pickup for the Hawks to bring off the bench, if he’s totally over his injury.
So they have a lot of room to re-construct the team, while also wooing other veterans to join the Celtic Green. If KG and Allen come back for one more run at things, Boston isn’t going anywhere anytime soon in the East.
Buddy Grizzard
June 9th, 2012
11:32 pm
Ok so Teague, Joe and TMac all played the entire 4th quarter. The question was, should LD have played Pargo or KH.
“I think Josh views himself as a consistent #2 option” – brigadierjerry
Josh took more long jumpers than anybody in the league except Kobe. Josh considers himself a #1 option on any team.
Buddy Grizzard
June 9th, 2012
11:35 pm
Al Horford for DeAndre Jordan assures two things: Lottery picks for the Hawks and an NBA championship for the Clippers. Think about it. If you could trade a certified scrub like Jordan for a third-team All-NBA center who is the best mid-range jump shooter in the league, would you pull the trigger?
Let me think… let me think… let me think… hmmm…. brain is straining….
northcyde
June 9th, 2012
11:37 pm
Sautee . . . Deandre Jordan is available because he’s sorry. A truly one dimensional player on both offense ( lob dunking ) and defense ( shot blocking ).
He’s essentially what Mikki Moore was in New Jersey, when Jason Kidd turned him into a highlight dunking machine with those lobs to him.
Some of you need to go to a Clipper message board, and see if they’d take an Al Horford for Deandre Jordan trade. They’ll probably say . . . “in a heartbeat”.
Stop being enamored with SportCenter highlight dunks and blocks, and actually watch how a guy plays. Reggie Evans, a rebounder/defender, makes a guy like Deandre expendable.
Buzzard Giddy
June 9th, 2012
11:38 pm
If we keep mr. 12pts 8rb horford we will be in the lottery in 2 years. We did not miss him this year and proved we are a better team with out him.
We are never going to win a championship or even compete for one with soft sorry as non performing Al.
northcyde
June 9th, 2012
11:40 pm
LOL @ Chris Paul working the pick and roll with both Blake Griffin and Al Horford.
That would make the Clippers a very scary team, especially with Al’s ability to make mid-range jumpers.
Yeah . . Clipper fans would drool at a trade like that, while Hawk fans will be looking at Deandre like a homemade “house burger” fried in a skillet . . . saying . . “Mama . . this ain’t a McDonalds hamburger”
( Eddie Murphy – Raw )
Sautee
June 9th, 2012
11:40 pm
Northhyde thats all we need from De Angelo. Defensive, protect the rim, like your position, block some shots and make the other player stay home to guard against the lob dunk. perfect.
Now, shut the fck up
doc
June 9th, 2012
11:41 pm
buddy bosh is a lot better than you give him credit for. he has willingly played the third banana and has been the ultimate teamer. there was a time when i thought maybe josh might be ebtter but he isnt and wont be ever. bosh didnt blink with kg on him where i think josh was had by kg in the head if nothing else. leaving toronto he was considered top three and i still dont see too many that are really better, he makes it look easy usually.
Buddy Grizzard
June 9th, 2012
11:41 pm
“Jeff Green may opt to return to Boston, if no one else throws a lot of money at him . . and if Boston even wants him. He’d be a nice pickup for the Hawks to bring off the bench, if he’s totally over his injury.”
Green had surgery for a heart condition, not an injury. He appears to have fully recovered. And despite the fact that his contract with the Celtics was voided, he traveled with the team and was frequently on their bench in street clothes. They made him feel like part of the team throughout his recover, and I have to think he will end up back with the Celtics.
Ray Allen has no intention of retiring and will be seeking a multi-year deal with a team other than the Celtics. He does not like the fact that his expiring contract was dangled in trade scenarios and wants to go to a team that is committed to keeping him on the roster until he retires. KG I think most likely will be back with the Celtics on a less-expensive deal.
So think about this. Avery Bradley’s emergence as the starter at shooting guard completely changed the identity of this team. His defense made the Celtics better, and as you can see they missed it badly in this playoff series. With a healthy Bradley and a healthy Green, two first round draft picks, KG back on a bargain contract and money left over to add an impact free agent, the Celtics might be tougher next year than they were this year.
Sautee
June 9th, 2012
11:45 pm
Ok then its settled Al Hoford has been a big 6′10 1/2″ 260lb burst for Atlanta and you want us to believe hes going to take his 12pts and 8 rebounds to the clippers and win a championship…yea…Right.
Grandad
June 9th, 2012
11:47 pm
Ditch~Weed
You can`t be me if you`re you and I`m me, `cause you`re you;
and if you`re you; that means you ain`t me,
so who are you if you`re not you `cause you`re sure not me,
and if I ain`t you I must be me, therefore if you ain`t you,
then then who are you, `cause somebody has got to be you,
and we know it ain`t me, and you ain`t me so really you are you,
so now that we have that settled, you are you and I am me.
Evenin`
G-dad
Jody
June 9th, 2012
11:50 pm
Lol at DeAndre Jordan for Al Horford. It’s quite clear many Hawks fans don’t know what it takes to put together a winning team. For that matter, neither does the Hawks front office.
Randy
June 9th, 2012
11:52 pm
Joky maybe then dont know what it takes to win a NBA championship but they surely know what wont.
That is Al Hoefart.
northcyde
June 9th, 2012
11:53 pm
Sautee
June 9th, 2012
11:40 pm
Northhyde thats all we need from De Angelo. Defensive, protect the rim, like your position, block some shots and make the other player stay home to guard against the lob dunk. perfect.
Now, shut the fck up
**************************
LOL . . so why did the Clippers get swept by the Spurs? Why did Tim Duncan and even Boris Diaw abuse that dude?
Deandre Jordan isn’t stopping anybody in the Eastern Conference. Not KG. Not Chris Bosh. Definitely not Amare Stoudamire. Not even Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah.
Clipper fans are already regretting that contract for Deandre.
Buddy Grizzard
June 9th, 2012
11:54 pm
“We did not miss him this year and proved we are a better team with out him.”
Yeah we didn’t miss his 4th-quarter scoring in the playoffs, even though he matched Josh and Joe combined for the series in 4th-quarter field goals. Let that scrub walk!
Buddy Grizzard
June 9th, 2012
11:56 pm
“Why did Tim Duncan and even Boris Diaw abuse that dude?”
LOL DeAndre “Worked By Boris Diaw” Jordan… trade him for Al right now!
Sautee
June 9th, 2012
11:58 pm
Northcyde thats not me, thats an imposter. Im actually struggling with being on the down low right now and wondering whether I should stop being game or embrace my homo/ology and marry you like Obama suggested.
Thoughts?
Sautee
June 9th, 2012
11:58 pm
** I should stop being Gay
Jody
June 10th, 2012
12:01 am
Randy, are you really Josh Smith?
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
12:01 am
North hyde, can three men be married? like you me and grandad? I heard mike cunningham is gay too.
Randy
June 10th, 2012
12:04 am
no idiot Jody, Im Dick bigger in bed with yo mama
northcyde
June 10th, 2012
12:06 am
No problem Sautee. I see the kids are out playing tonight. I should know by know which posts are trolls/kids or not.
northcyde
June 10th, 2012
12:06 am
know by now
northcyde
June 10th, 2012
12:08 am
LOL . . and I respond to another troll post and didn’t even know it.
Haha . you kids can have the blog. Time to go holla at some females. When ya’ll get older, you can do that too on a Saturday night.
Buddy Grizzard
June 10th, 2012
12:09 am
Yeah the butt-hurt Horford-hater troll is off his meds tonight… That’s it for me… any further “Buddy Grizzard” posts tonight are from the guy with the hurt feelings.
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
12:14 am
Northcyde I dont know who all these trolls are. I see your points be we can do better than Al Hoford in the middle. And its foolish to move Al over to Josh’s position because that lowers the power forward position. So the best thing is to trade Al or have him come off the bench.
O'Brien
June 10th, 2012
12:16 am
SteveW,
Billups was only making 2 mill with the Clips last season.
Incorrect. Remember that the Knicks used their amnesty on him, so they paid him $12 mil, while the Clippers paid him $2mil (the last year of billups contract was for $14mil).
O'Brien
June 10th, 2012
12:17 am
For whoever thinks Al is injury prone, please keep in mind that prior to this season, Al played in 77, 67, 81, and 77 games, so he played in 92% of his team’s games his first 4 years in the league.
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
12:19 am
Me too Booty Gizzard, Any body posting as me after this is Buddy Grizzard
O'Brien
June 10th, 2012
12:20 am
Melvin,
What if Drummond is gone before the 5th pick? What’s plan B?
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
12:24 am
O’Brien while I do agree that Al is injury prone missing entire playoff series, 90% of the season and 20 sent of the season means Al is injured too often at this stage of his career and this will only become worse and worse as Al gets older. Al is about peaked I trhink Al would be a nice role player or a nice bench guy but really, hes not the guy you want leading your charge. 12pts 8 rbs…. no, not Al. Any team that has Al as its leader is going down.
Sautee
June 10th, 2012
12:26 am
20%of another season
Grandad
June 10th, 2012
12:35 am
I dont like the Al for any of the guys except Bynum, or Gasol maybe D12
Grandad
June 10th, 2012
12:36 am
Al for Bosh?
High-sider
June 10th, 2012
12:39 am
@Buddy Grizzard
““LD was “partially” right [in] sitting/benching Hinrich in the 4th quarter and OT of Game 3 vs. the Celtics; McGrady, not Pargo, should have been playing in lieu of Hinrich.”
High-sider, this is at least progress. You finally acknowledge that the series was lost in part due to bad coaching. But if you want to pretend like you know something about basketball, here’s a suggestion. Before you make a comment like the above, jump on over to ESPN.com and look at the play by play for Game 3. If you had bothered to do that, you would know that Pargo and McGrady PLAYED TOGETHER in the 4th quarter. Despite turning his ankle in the first half, McGrady PLAYED 41 MINUTES in that game. There was hardly a time when MCGRADY WAN’T ON THE FLOOR…” – Buddy Grizzard @10:08pm dated 6/9/2012
Are you talking about the following play-by-play breakdown of Game 3 vs. the Celtics in the 2012 playoffs?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/201205040BOS.html
“LD was “partially” right [in] sitting/benching Hinrich in the 4th quarter and OT of Game 3 vs. the Celtics; McGrady, not Pargo, should have been playing in lieu of Hinrich. The five Hawks players that should have been playing in the 4th qtr. and OT of Game 3 vs. the Celtics include Teague @pg/sg, J. Johnson @sg/sf, T. McGrady @pnt frwd/sml frwd, M. Williams @pwr frwd and Dampier @cntr. Maybe LD could’ve inserted Ivan Johnson instead of M. Williams for some duration in the 4th quarter and overtime but that [substitution] should depend on the level of performance of both players late in that [particular] game…” – High-sider @6:09pm dated 6/9/2012
I gave you a lineup of the Hawks players [I thought] should have been playing [in] the 4th quarter and overtime of Game 3 vs. the Celtics in the 2012 playoffs. [See above for a portion of my earlier post.]
I meant that McGrady, [and] not Pargo, should have been the “third [3rd] player” in the Hawks back court [J. Johnson, Teague and McGrady] so to speak in Game 3 vs. the Celtics. I realize that McGrady played 40+ minutes in Game 3 vs. the Celtics.
Grandad
June 10th, 2012
12:50 am
one sider you are wrong as a mother fcker. We lost because we got out played. They put the ball in the hole and we did not. Al came back and destroyed the chemistry of the team and the beat the chiit out of us.
So quit making excuses , biitch. if you were that smart you would be coaching in the pros you stupid excuse making biitch.
Grandad
June 10th, 2012
12:51 am
they beat the chiit out of us
Buster Douglass
June 10th, 2012
12:55 am
I’
Buster Douglass
June 10th, 2012
12:55 am
I’ll whoop Al’s As
Buster Douglass
June 10th, 2012
1:03 am
Now Fck this blog Al hoford blog page where you block out all the Josh supporters and pretend like this is a legitimate page. Fck this page.
a fan
June 10th, 2012
5:53 am
Let Rick Sund go and go after Dennis Lindsey from the Spurs and let him run the team not the stupid people from the spirit group