Atlanta Hawks: Season Review: Jason Collins

I think retaining Ivan is a good idea, especially since this organization usually gets nothing out of it’s scouting and lower round picks. Collins holds a roster spot that needs to be filled with better talent, even if that talent is old like Damp.

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yup. Time to refresh the roster. Now, it remains to be seen if the ‘GM to be named later’ will be directed to find bargain basement filler after the top 7 players (assuming that our 1st rounder will be in that top 7). including 3rd string C behind Horford and Zaza.

be nice if the undrafted free agent SG from Seton Hall has enough game to make the roster, which would free up potential draft spots for a SF and mabye backup PG.

Luv Jeff Taylor (SF) from Vandy, esp. his supposed def. prowess. I see folks want C Fab Melo, but then it causes a domino effect on what becomes of Smoove, Horford, and Zaza. I don’t think the Hawks are ready to deal with that this summer.

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FTPB

“Would you do a Josh for Al Jefferson trade straight up – especially if we knew we could sign Jefferson after this season?”

Jefferson brings many of the same problems as Gasol (not a true center, not a great defender, hasn’t proven he can win playoff games as the best player on his team) and isn’t as good of an offensive player as Gasol (mainly because Gasol is a much better passer), but unlike Gasol, Jefferson is still pretty young, not declining, and not locked into a wildly overpaid deal. For that reason, I’d rather bring him in than Gasol.

I don’t see Utah making that deal, though, and I’d rather not deal Josh for a player who will tie up cap space without improving the team.

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Michael:

Are the hawks seriously;
going into the draft, workout for players , etc,
w/o a GM in place ?
-0R-
The admitedly *uneducated
*[draft picks, i.e. college prospects]
Rick Sund in charge of the draft ?

Thnaks for the new Blog !

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FTPB

“The East too me looks like:
Miami
Then New York, ATL, Indy, Philly and Chicago, in no particular order. I could see the Hawks beating any of those teams in a series – even Miami.”

I don’t think there’s any way in hell the Hawks beat Miami unless LeBron is injured. But one team you are forgetting in that mix is New Jersey. If Dwight gets his wish and goes there to unite with Deron Williams, they will probably be at worst a top 3 team in the East along with Miami and Chicago.

I still don’t see the Hawks breaking through that ceiling to the ECF unless they get some sort of break like the opposing team’s best player tearing his ACL. The chances of something like that happening are not good enough to justify keeping this core together in my opinion.

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Also, I counted out Boston this year and I was wrong. If that team stays intact they are still going to make noise. Maybe they don’t make it back to the ECF but they will be good enough to knock someone out of the playoffs barring injury, especially if some of the young players on that bench like Bradley, Moore, Johnson, and Stiemsma develop.

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Don’t trade Josh and Al, if we do, the team would be worse. I have never been a fan of a two for one deal, it never works. Keep our core group together ego. Josh, Al, and Jeff.

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lacsho this might be fun if mc goes through the roster this way, starting with the bottom of the list first.

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There is no reason why Twin should be brought back. Dampier looked better than Twin despite being out of shape…

@Grandad the Hawks are not working out players until after the combine. They will be showing the combine tmw and friday on ESPNU. Not having a gm in place for working out players doesnt seem to matter much anyway in my opinion. If Sund doesnt come back Pendergraph will be promoted. He scouts all the college guys anyway so I dont think it matters much.

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@Eric C. I see where you are coming from, but the Hawks should have had enough fire in them to beat them regardless, because it’s a series with one of our most hated rivals, and we are trying to get to a ECF(Hopefully). Also, if we would have beat them in the game, that the Celtics didn’t have Rondo, we would have had a game 7, that game should have been a easy win!

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LOL @ KG. He looked directly into the camera when he said “the owners who talk too much”.

Gearon proved how much of an idiot he was during that luncheon. He’s too much of a “fanboy” who thinks he knows about the league, but doesn’t know a thing about what it takes to win in the league. KG may be “dirty” at times, but if he’s on your side, that’s the type of guy you want on your team. Someone who will stop at nothing to win.

As for you Najeh, you seem to totally ignore the reciprocal effects ( team wide ) of having a guy who plays the PF position like it’s supposed to be played, and how that may have a ripple effect on the team as a whole. You’re against bringing in better offensive PF’s in Gasol or Jefferson . . yet you’re for a trade for Joakim Noah, a guy who will definitely defend, but would weaken us even more offensively.

Why is that?

You act like Gasol is a defensive liability, but he isn’t. The same goes for Jefferson. Both players can hold their on on the defensive end. Both players are loads to handle on the offensive end.

When you add Zaza to the mix, you now all of a sudden have a big frontline to deal with. Instead of worrying about matching up with other frontlines, people would have to match up with us.

Horford: 6-10 . . 250
Zaza: 6-11 . . 275
Gasol: 7-0 . . 250

or

Horford: 6-10 . . 250
Zaza: 6-11 . . 275
Jefferson: 6-10 . . 289

That’s either major height or major beef on the frontline.

I know your opinion is set in stone about not bringing in either of these guys, but I’m just throwing it out there for everyone to see. Josh Smith is a great roming defender, one of the best in the league at what he does. But at 6-9 and now at 225, he’s simply too small now to defend good low post players down on the block.

He’s changed his body to play SF, so I guess we may as well play him there, seeing that he’s taking SF type shots.

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MC’s player write-ups should be interesting. A mix of opinions and facts to back his opinions up. When he gets to the coach, I hope the same formula will be used.

I think I’m going to sign up and pay to subscribe to Synergy ( $19.95 now ). It’ll give me something to do over the summer. Should’ve done it a long time ago.

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“You act like Gasol is a defensive liability, but he isn’t. The same goes for Jefferson. Both players can hold their on on the defensive end.”

We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Long arms may get you 1.5 blocks per game by default but they don’t make you a good defender.

“You’re against bringing in better offensive PF’s in Gasol or Jefferson . . yet you’re for a trade for Joakim Noah, a guy who will definitely defend, but would weaken us even more offensively.”

I thought the whole point of trading Josh was to move Al to his natural position of PF. In order to do that, you have to get a natural C. Noah plays C with the toughness and tenacity necessary to play that position full time. Gasol and Jefferson don’t. I realize Noah is not a good offensive player, but if this is just about making the offense more “balanced”, replacing Josh with Noah will arguably accomplish that better than replacing him with Gasol or Jefferson, since Noah does actually hang around the basket all the time, while Jefferson often shoots jumpers and Gasol very frequently shoots jumpers.

Assuming Al’s best position is PF, if you have a front court of Al and Gasol/Jefferson, someone is playing out of their best position. If you have a front court of Al and Noah, both players are playing at their optimal position.

More importantly, Noah brings competitive energy and fire that Gasol simply does not have. This team’s personality is already way too much like Gasol. They need someone like Noah.

“Horford: 6-10 . . 250
Zaza: 6-11 . . 275
Gasol: 7-0 . . 250

or

Horford: 6-10 . . 250
Zaza: 6-11 . . 275
Jefferson: 6-10 . . 289

That’s either major height or major beef on the frontline.”

Those three players can’t all play at the same time, so I don’t really see the point. Unless you are starting Zaza, someone is still playing out of position.

“But at 6-9 and now at 225, he’s simply too small now to defend good low post players down on the block.”

You sound an awful lot like pointguardslim right now. Size is important but it isn’t everything. I can tell you this — Josh defends KG a hell of a lot better than Gasol does.

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If the Hawks were going up against Dwight Howard, and they had to guard him with either Al or Gasol, I know who I’d rather have guarding Dwight, and it ain’t Pau. That is a problem if Pau is being brought in to be the C who moves Al to his “natural position”.

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Give me Gasol all day long and twice in the low post.

What mistake has Sund made in the draft that warrants such concern?

Twin appears to be super smart and he likely is able to overcome his physical limitations for short spurts before the reality of his body takes over. So I’m not terribly surprised that he has been effective (during abbreviated stints). I recall that MJ’s Bulls always had some gray-haired big man on the bench waiting for their 5 minutes to earn a championship ring. John Salley, an ancient Robert Parrish and Bill Cartwright come to mind.

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Marcus

June 6th, 2012
3:04 pm

Najeh,
not feeling overly excited about the prospects looking at this list:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/2012-nba-free-agents

I kinda like Solomon Alabi, but I wonder if he has “stiff-like” qualities …. and if he has enough experience to be play sound position defense that belies his career stats.

Didn’t realize we spent nearly 4 mill between 3 players as SG backups … (T-Mac, WG, and Stack).

*****************************

Of that list, here are the realistic people that we can afford, to bring in ( not going to include guys on the team last year )

POINT GUARD

- Delonte West
- Keyon Dooling
- John Lucas

SHOOTING GUARD

- Mickael Pietrus
- Shannon Brown
- Marquis Daniels
- Michael Redd
- Keith Bogans

SMALL FORWARD

- Matt Barnes
- Damien Wilkins
- Rasual Butler
- Sam Young

POWER FORWARD

- Troy Murphy
- Chris Wilcox
- Brian Cardinal
- Yi Jialian ( whew . . so glad we didn’t take him over Horford )
- Reggie Evans ( a pipe dream, somebody will pay him )
- Shelden Williams ( haha . . a big possibility actually )

CENTER

- Daniel Orton ( who the Hawks so-called coveted last year )
- Solomon Alabi
- Hasheem Thabeet
- Ben Wallace

So there you go. Happy shopping.
- Donald Sloan

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MC, thanks for the blog and I know you are doing your due diligence on recapping the Hawks season but I hope the ASG spent less time on resigning Collins then I did reading this blog on him. Nice to hear they are going to attempt to bring back Ivan.

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Pau is a PF
Al is a PF
Josh is a PF

Why are we obsessed with PFs in this city?

MC, you gotta admit…one 32min/6pts/5reb effort is not enough to beat the Celtics in a best of 7. Collins was visible for one game and after that, LD’s magic wand went poof.

The Garnett accusations are comical by Gearon. He definitely has no idea how to keep a sleeping dog down. Like when Sund decides to speak, I hope MC forgoes any more interviews with these 2 going forward.
All they do is rile the population.

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northcyde,

I think the writeups on Josh, LD and JJ will be the most interesting.

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Najeh, I totally agree with you. Gasol can’t be relied upon to play the C position in the playoffs. However, if the Hawks had Gasol and Horford in the line up, and signed someone similar to Dalembert to back him up, then that is different.

However, who ever it is that think you can get Gasol for Josh and Marvin, you’re wrong. The Lakers don’t want Gasol. The deal would be closer to Josh, Zaza, and Teague for Gasol and a pick.

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O’B, in your mind, who’s contract is worse, Boozer’s or Joe?

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A blog on Collins? Thanks buddy, how bout just saying they intend to retain Ivan as a title and post a new blog with no article, just room for comments. It’s not your fault MC, I realize you’re really scraping. So in the end…thanks for the new material.

Maybe you can feature a blog on why Jamal would/could/will save the Hawks and another to bash the Hinrich/JC2 deal to rehash more stuff that has nothing to do with our future.

We need young rising talent. We have plenty of vets who just don’t have what it takes. We need a new culture. One only dreams of turning our Sonics in to a new Thunder. Always wishin we had scouts like the Spurs or Thunder making our pics. Instead we’ll sell the draft rights to the 2012 Shellhead for cash to pay our tax on our underachieving lackluster team.

Maybe I’m in a bad mood today, makes me want to vomit. Sorry Hawks fans.

Amen to KG proving it’s about Hard Work, Committment, Passion for the game and HEART! Screw ASG.

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Perfect High Sider – we need to pay Iverson to make an infomercial for Sund, ASG and the whole Hawks franchise leadership with him saying:

We’re sitting here talking about Collins? Not the playoffs, not the championship, but Jason Collins? over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

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re: “Dampier looked better than Twin”…

I’ve seen this comment 2 or 3 times in this blog….all I can say/ask is What are you clowns smoking? Collins is certainly nothing special, but…..Dampier looked awful…just awful…all season long.

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Ra’mon,

Given the Hawks financial limitations, Boozer’s contract is better than JJ’s imo. 4 years, $89 mil left on JJ’s contract. As a matter of fact, Boozer’s original contract was 5 years, $75 – $80 mil. So Boozer’s overall contract is less than what’s left on JJ’s contract.

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re: We need a natural center…

We already have an all-star center in Horford, and ZaZa did a fine job replacing him last season. Center is not this team’s problem, SF is. If Josh forces us to trade him, move horford to PF, ZaZa to Center, and acquiring either a SF or a SG (moving Joe to SF)

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Jason Collins is the 13th man…

At 7′0, 255 with 14 years NBA experience…
The Hawks have room for Jason Collins…

Never forget who we are, this is the Hawks…
Collins’ 10yr+ vet contract only counts 85% toward cap…
So, a min. $1M x .85 deal is always a safe bet…
Especially for team with no cap room…

All that Synergy PER crap is fine in a rotisserie league…
But the game is played on the floor not in stat book…
LD knows this, thats why we won the games we did…

Collin’s nor Dampier’s “real value” will show in the stat line…
But it will on the court – there are intangibles in sports…
True 7fters that “bang” are a tremendous help…
Collins/Damp/Ivan keep the “moistness” out of the lineup…

Vs Boston, KG “could not” post…that’s invaluable…
We already know Collins is kryptonite to Superboy…
Thus, Collins nuetralizes two of best BIGS in league…

And we shouldnt give him $800,000?….really????

I’m penciling in both Dampier/Collins 12/13th spot…
If something better falls to us, so be it, but…
I’m comfy with Horford, Pachulia, Collins, Dampier…

I like what they bring – size, strength, experience, security…
Had they not been ready in crunch time, I’d feel differently…
But, they both made the case for more P/T and another k…

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My apologies to one and all:

That was horrible.

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O’B, I don’t think his contract should be more than the neighborhood of 5 years $80 mil. Yes I think they can. Because that is roughly $3-$4 million increase, and that’s basically half of what Marvin and Kirk made last season each, without being a significant player. So they could re-sign Josh for that deal. And stop trading their draft picks, and do well. Still remains, very doubtful to win a title without going into the luxury at least $5 mil.

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O’B, question, at the trading deadline, Doc admitted that Rondo was available. I threw around the Rondo for Horford and Teague scenario for a long time. Have this playoffs not shown everyone, that was the right deal to at least offer Boston with Rondo’s play?

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Some suggested trading for Derrick Williams – While I’m def. not against that, I do have to say he did not impress me at all this past season. Looks a little pudgy – and looks like a tweener. He probably turns into a star since I said this of course – but just going on my observations.

Ditch Jason Collins. Thanks for the contributions Jason!

Najeh – If what you postulate occurs in Brooklyn, then, yes, they have a team. If not, and DeRon is gone, with or w/o Dwight, they don’t have much going on up there.

With Dwight and no DeRon, a playoff team. Not much more.

I wonder what Robin Lopez gets in FA? Hawes? Hibbert? Brook Lopez (or is he even a RFA? Kaman? Kwame?

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f the Hawks were going up against Dwight Howard, and they had to guard him with either Al or Gasol, I know who I’d rather have guarding Dwight, and it ain’t Pau. That is a problem if Pau is being brought in to be the C who moves Al to his “natural position”.

I’m pretty sure the Hawks beat the Magic with Howard averaging “Wilt-like” numbers against Twin, Zaza, Al, Etan and Hilton Armstrong. The Hawks won because of the combination of better defense against the supporting cast and the deterioration of the magic supporting cast.

In the next two years, Gasol would be a better fit for a team that is NOT going to exceed the luxury tax, use the amnesty clause or use the MLE than just about any other player that may likely be available. Because the Hawks are an ensemble cast, won’t likely be able to acquire a classic “leading man” and Gasol would be the best player available who appears capable of fitting with an ensemble cast. Someone like Al Jefferson is a black hole, guys will quickly learn that once he gets the ball, they won’t see it again. The guys who are tradeable ALL have warts (including our 3 captains)… get over the notion that we can use some combination of our captains to land the perfect player. Gasol is better than any player we have… if we can get him, we have upgraded the top of our roster . That is a really good start, because historically, we’ve only been focused on upgrading the bottom of our roster, and that hasn’t (and won’t work.

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I even wonder what Camby and Asik get as FA’s?

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I wouldn’t be surprised to see ATL make a run at Daniel Orton. Our scouting dept. was supposedly high on him coming out of college.

Looks like the backup, cheap FA PG market is a little deeper than last season. Same with backup C’s.

And I’ve always thought of Jefferson of more of a real Center than Gasol. Just me.

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I feel like those old Chuck Tanner Braves commercials – “This could be the year”

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This group of potential affordable (vet min. or close) FA’s is deeper and has more breadth than last season. If Sund or whoever knows what they’re doing (I’ll let ya’ll have fun with that), we could have a better, deeper team than last season.

I guess it all depends on Josh doesn’t it? And what we do with him – extend him, trade him or whatever.

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Summer of Sameness….no excitement on the horizon.

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whoever thinks gasol is better than josh smith are idoit..gasol is to old and would make this team terrible definsively

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Twin is a journeyman big man. All teams need guys like him. Twin is best as a 3rd center/12th man kind of guy, who is good to use for a few minutes mostly against a Dwight Howard or somebody like that. Plain and simple, he’s nothing special, but we werent expecting it when we signed him. It was just unfortunate that Drew put him in the lineup and played him more than he should have.

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“WE DONT NEED NO LOSERS, WE NEED WINNERS MAN!!!!!!!!!!’ -MEL- [Frequent sports talk radio caller from Atlanta]

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Hey, they call you “doc” for a reason Mr. Rivers? Yes!

What do they call you Mr. Spoelstra? A day late and a dollar short? Wow……..

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The Raptors want to trade their #8 overall pick for a swingman. They have their sights set on Rudy Gay and Andre Iguodala.

Neither Joe nor Josh fits the bill perfectly, but depending on who is available at #8, this could be a good deal for the Hawks if the Raptors are interested.

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“And can’t trade Josh Smith because he is a future HOFer and has doen so much to prop this horrific franchise on his broad shoulders that are forced to carry the other 14 bums around him. And after watching well-executed basketball played in the conference finals, it is so perfectly clear that Josh has all of the characteristics of a player who can lead his team to the conference finals… so let’s scrap the whole thing and build around him. In fact, we don’t need no stinking Dwight Howard, let’s trade Marvin for Al Thornton and simply put the right pieces around Josh the Legendary. Who’s with me?”

And gotta acquire Pau Gasol because he is a future HOFer and has done so much to carry lesser players on his shoulders. And after watching defense and toughness win out time and time again in the playoffs, it is so perfectly clear that Gasol has all the characteristics of a player who can lead his team to the conference finals… so let’s build around him.

Josh for Gasol is a lateral, cap-clogging move and does absolutely nothing to push this team over their current second-round ceiling. Either blow it up completely or make a move for Dwight.

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“One of the Hawks’ odd organizational quarks is the insistence that Jason Collins is more than a specialist best suited for a narrowly defined role.”

I suppose an organizational electrically charged particle would be odd. Not to mention a physics miracle. Somehow, they just can’t make those little boogers organize.

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Beat you to it, DUI. hee, hee.

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I would check in and see if the Clippers are having any buyer’s remorse on Deandre Jordan. Hawks could send the expiring contracts of Josh and ZaZa for Jordan and either Mo Williams or Caron Butler.

Clippers would go in to the 2013 summer with CP3, Josh, and ZaZa as unrestricted free agents, and Griffin as a restricted free agent. Hard to say whether that’s good or bad.

Jordan put up 4.5 pts, 5.3 rebs, and 1.6 blocks in 22 minutes per game in the playoffs. That’s not exactly tearing it up for a guy earning $33M over the next 3 years. Hawks can afford to take the chance. Clippers should be in a win-now mode with CP3.

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Gasol is signed for a single season longer than Josh. 82 more games.

Cap space (which no one can say would be used by these owners) would get us what? At best, a chance for some level 2 or 3 FA (like Al Jefferson or Deng) but it certainly won’t deliver a clear cut #1 scoring option. Any team willing to trade a clear cut #1 scoring option would be looking to dump salary after that guy proves that he isn’t able to carry the team deep in the playoffs (e.g. Joe Johnson, Brand, Granger) or someone at the end of their career who can no longer carrry a team on their back.

“Blowing it up” means what in terms of managing the business? Shedding expenses and watching revenue decline only to turn around and increase expenses later whil revenue drags behind (as fans wait to be shown that it is time to spend again). My guess is the ASG already lived that cycle during the early Woody days… Sund has indicated that they won’t look to step backwards. So time to stop the “blow it up” discussion. Heck, they aren’t even willing to spend a fairly modest $3-4M on a real head coach.

SteveW, yeah and folk hyped up Al Thornton a year or two ago as being better than Marvin and I said back then that Thornton would likely not get another non-minimum salary contract. And he spent last season watching the NBA on TV. Thabeet will likely get a 2 year deal around $3M in an attempt to save his career.

The thing that GMs (and bloggers) seem to fail to consider is passion. I read about “motor”, but I think that is different than passion. IMO, Marvin’s motor is fine (not great, but fine). It is his passion that is absent. There are a bunch of young players who seem to be missing the passion. That is why I instantly thought JC2 would make a more immediate impact than Teague.. passion. It is also why I don’t like the idea of compiling draft picks… because I see way too many young players lacking passion these days.

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Ra’mon,

It has always been my opinion that this team could use a pass first PG to get other guys easier shots, and a PG who plays defense like Rondo would be that much better.

But at the trading deadline, Horford was injured, so no team was going to trade for him (imo), especially not a team like Boston that still wanted to make the playoffs, because they had no idea if and when Al would come back.

AJ,

Gasol is better than any player we have….

While I would welcome Gasol in a trade if it came down to it, I’m not so sure he is better than Josh.

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High-sider,

Let it go. Hinrich and Marvin were already under contract, and the cheap ASG were not going to amnesty either of them to make room for Jamal.

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High-Sider,

You should realize that you are beginning to be as repetitive as pgslim with his Jon Leuer posts.
We all know how you feel. Telling us again and again changes nothing. And you know what Einstein said…

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If there’s any lesson we can learn from Miami, it’s that you can’t nurture your players’ prima donna side. Lebron and Wade’s egos have gotten so big that they feel they are entitled to special treatment from the refs, and when they don’t get it, they become more preoccupied with the officiating than the actual game. And as a result, they stop playing transition defense, allowing Boston to get a critical basket just by beating Miami down the floor after a made basket.

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Or as a second trade suggestion: Jeff Teague and Al Horfod for Chris Bosh and Mario Chalmers. Larry Drew has shown that he wants a perimeter attack. Chalmers does what Teague does’t -shoot well. Teague would diversify Miami’s attack but we could get someone to play post for the Hawks in Bosh. Horford would be the grinder that the Heat needs. Anthony can move to center full time for the Heat.

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Quickest path to Eastern Finals:

PG, Damian Lillard

- significant upgrade over Teague…
- natural scorer, aggressive, deep range…
- any deal for Smoove must include Lillard…
- immediately best PG since Mookie…
- would punish teams for doubling JJ…
- makes it rain from 3 – no grannie shotput…

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M C must been bored made blog on Collins, SMH

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Thunders 2012 NBA Champions.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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The Hawks should jump on this. Marvin for Ariza and 10th pick…

Shaun Powell: Hornets will entertain offers for 10th pick if someone also agrees to take Ariza or Okafor contracts.

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Where’s Chris, where’s T-Mac, where’s Chris, where’s T-Mac?

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Video highlights of Perry Jones

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/perry-jones

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All these trade ideas and you know what Rick Sund is going to do?

He’s going to do nothing for another year. He just has to swallow the fact that LD is the coach for one more year, so let’s give this one more run. We don’t need to change out what we have.

We just have to try and avoid a step back, meaning falling out of the playoffs.

And call me an idiot for saying Gasol is better than Josh because he is.
At least the Josh that LD has allowed to develop.

I hope this Collins article is the last one on him. He’s making 1M for playing 6 good games a year. Nice gig if you can get it.

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Slim, I hope you’re not pushing for us to go get a PF are you?

That is the last position that this versatile, multiple defending position lineup that we need.

We are just too good already with our balanced lineup. We have a group of great guys who really like each other.

I don’t think we should break any of this up….(roll your eyes right here!)

Well, that’s what we’re going to hear going forward.

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Melvin
June 6th, 2012
9:42 pm

The Hawks should jump on this. Marvin for Ariza and 10th pick…

Shaun Powell: Hornets will entertain offers for 10th pick if someone also agrees to take Ariza or Okafor contracts.
——————————————————

Hawks-Hornets trade scenario as follows:

1. The Hawks get Emeka Okafor and the [2012] 10th pick.

2. The Hornets get Marvin Williams and Zaza Pachulia.

Hawks new starting lineup:

pg – JeffTeague
sg – Joe Johnson
sf – Josh Smith
pf – Al Horford
c – Emeka Okafor

Hawks then draft the best big man available with the 10th pick. Is that [scenario] even possible?

P.S. Bring back Jamal Crawford.

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Melvin, I’d make that trade in a nano-second. Regarding Perry Jones, I understand that he believes that he is a SF and wants to be given a chance to be an SF. Evidently, he isn’t a big fan of contact. But I’m sure there is someone else with passion that can be selected at that slot. As you may expect, I’m a Sullinger fan.

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High-sider,

‘ or “,it’s me lol.

Melvin,

If Marvin only had 1 year left, it would have been possible. But Ariza has 2 years, $15mil left. Marvin has 2 years, $15.8 mil. The Hornets will not do Marvin for Ariza and the #10 pick.

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Steven Jackson is unconscious! 6-6 from dream land!

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Collins is a stiff.

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So Picks #7,8, and 10 are willing to trade their picks? 7 and 8 for wings. That goes along with what I’ve heard about this draft:

1) Everybody but Davis and Zeller have questions. And Zeller is only a late lottery type of guy.

2) There are 15 legit NBA PF’s in this draft. But all but Davis have some question, whether it’s conditioning, attitude, game, whatever – there is an issue.

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If the Hawks get Emeka Okafor and the Hornets get Marvin Williams and Zaza Pachulia, how do the Hawks come out “on the short end” of the deal by giving up M. Williams?

Hollinger’s Analysis:

Hawks [-6 wins]
Hornets [+4 wins]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4tmerc4

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Melvin,

Yep. We might still be playing.

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Rod from CP,

Co-Sign

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Manu not getting any calls tonight?

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Has the King just been Dethroned? Kevin may have a say soon…

The Spurs are done.. Ran out of steam..Wow!

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The “Young and Inexperienced” Thunder is showing the “Experienced and Veteran” Heat [on] “how to close” in the playoffs. The Heat should be ashamed of themselves. A-B-C – Always Be Closing.

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As good as Lebron is at scoring the ball, Durant is just as good if not better cause of his range and super quick release that you cant teach. Its a gift from up above and to be 6′11″ with a handle like that?

CRAZY?????????????????????????????

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Oh, did I forget to mention, Durant has a [mid-range game/jumper] that Lebron can only dream about?

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“And how do you know it does nothing to push them past their second round ceiling?”

Because Gasol has never won a playoff game as the best player on his team, which he would be after a Josh for Gasol trade, not to mention that Gasol is declining.

I think that trade keeps the Hawks treading water as the 4th or 5th best team in the conference, but nothing more.

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preach- choir- preach some more Najeh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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“Cap space (which no one can say would be used by these owners) would get us what? At best, a chance for some level 2 or 3 FA (like Al Jefferson or Deng) but it certainly won’t deliver a clear cut #1 scoring option. Any team willing to trade a clear cut #1 scoring option would be looking to dump salary after that guy proves that he isn’t able to carry the team deep in the playoffs (e.g. Joe Johnson, Brand, Granger) or someone at the end of their career who can no longer carrry a team on their back.”

See previous post about the Thunder. Cap space is the reason why they can keep Harden and Ibaka after this season.

““Blowing it up” means what in terms of managing the business? Shedding expenses and watching revenue decline only to turn around and increase expenses later whil revenue drags behind (as fans wait to be shown that it is time to spend again). My guess is the ASG already lived that cycle during the early Woody days… Sund has indicated that they won’t look to step backwards. So time to stop the “blow it up” discussion.”

You are probably right about this, but if I was going to take this dysfunctional organization’s limitations into account every time I proposed a move they could make, I would be limited to trying to pinpoint what minimum salary players to add to this team.

Atlanta is a star-driven market. Hopefully after eight years of ownership the DASG realizes this. If they blow up the team and actually draft a superstar this time, the revenues won’t lag behind expenses this time around.

I wouldn’t describe Josh as a high motor guy, but I don’t question his passion. In Gasol’s case, I question both.

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That’s what I get for not closing my italics tag.

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OKC is bunch of nice guys with attitude and skills!!!

Class Act! Top to bottom!

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In fact, let’s trace the Thunder’s history back to the 2004-05 season, when our dear friend Rick Sund was their GM.

That year, led by Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis, the Sonics won 52 games and took the eventual champion Spurs to 6 games in the 2nd round. In other words, they went as far as the current Hawks team has gone.

The next two years, the Sonics reverted back to a lottery team. During this time, Sund largely kept the team intact. (Sound familiar?) Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Luke Ridnour, Damien Wilkins all stayed together. Sund made some peripheral moves swapping out players like Chris Wilcox and Vlad-Rad, but by and large that team was the same. Meanwhile, Allen was getting paid the max and Lewis, while locked into a reasonable deal, was set to hit free agency. And, of course, the team’s attendance was comfortably in the bottom 10.

In the summer of 2007, Sund and coach Bob Hill were fired and replaced by Sam Presti and PJ Carlesimo, and the Sonics got the #2 pick in the lottery. Of course Presti could have kept their “core” intact and tried to build around them. He could have, like many people here, refused to part with one of his two best players for draft picks and cap space, insisting on trading Allen or Lewis for other established SGs or Fs.

Instead, here’s what he did:

Ray Allen to the Celtics for the #5 pick
Rashard Lewis to the Magic for a 2nd round pick and a $9 million trade exception

Two very good players — one of them a future Hall of Famer, another one an All Star — traded only for picks and cap space. No attempt whatsoever to get an equal, or even lesser, player in return.

We all know that they hit the jackpot with Durant at #2, without which nothing else they have done is possible, but here’s what else Presti did. Picked Jeff Green at #5 that year (and later traded him for Perkins). Traded a second round pick to Phoenix for Kurt Thomas and two first-round picks (one of which was used on Serge Ibaka), made possible by the Rashard Lewis trade exception. Later flipped Thomas to the Spurs for another first rounder. Picked Russell Westbrook in the lottery in 2008. Picked James Harden in the lottery in 2009. And since they had an extra pick in 2009, they were able to trade one of them to Chicago for Thabo Sefolosha.

So to recap:

-Traded their two All Stars for cap space and picks
-Used the cap space to absorb an unwanted player’s salary and acquire two more picks
-Built their ENTIRE CURRENT TEAM (with the exception of Collison who has been there for ten years and Fisher) either by drafting players or trading draft picks

Durant – drafted
Westbrook – drafted
Harden – drafted
Ibaka – drafted with a pick was traded for
Sefolosha – acquired for a pick
Perkins – traded for using a player who was drafted
Cook – acquired for a pick
Maynor – drafted

And not only that, they have extra first-round picks stashed away for the future as part of the Daequan Cook acquisitions.

Can’t be afraid to blow it up. Can’t be afraid to trade established players for what seems like nothing. Either get Dwight or begin the purge. Dump Joe for cap space. Dump Marvin for cap space. If you’re going to trade Josh, get lottery pick(s). Same with Al. Lateral moves get you nowhere.

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Trevor Ariza and the 10th pick for Josh isn’t that bad a deal…

The Hornets only have 36mil committed to next years team and we could do that trade 1-for-1.

Hawks:
Would get an ELITE wing defender , 6mil in cap space and the 10th pick… That isn’t a bad deal for a players who wants to leave.

Hornets:
Would get a motivated Josh in his final season.

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I do not have one thing against OKC.
Other than the Hawks;
they are my # 3 son`s favorite team.

However;
tonite – 2nd half – the officiating was at best suspect.

Admittedly, I detest Miami.
No such acrimony for the Thunder.

Still tonite – 2nd half – whew ? … -make me wonder- … again ?

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“Paul is good but he’s no Kevin Durant. Durant is a special player.”

Very true. But I do think a CP3-Joe-Gay-Josh core or a CP3-Joe-Iguodala-Josh core, both of which were entirely possible, would have had this team in title contention by now. Neither of those cores has a player as good as KD but they are definitely good enough to contend.

Of course, to keep those teams intact, cap space would have been essential. Can’t understate the importance of cap space.

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“I realize that you do not like the man,
but other than his age,
talent wise we could not wish for better.”

It’s not even so much about whether I like him or not. You are right that he is not one of my favorite players, but there’s no denying his talent. It is more about a combination of a) the fact that he isn’t the true center that will allow Al to move to PF, b) he and Joe together will be taking up more than half the cap by themselves making it impossible to improve the team, and c) he isn’t good enough to push this team ahead of Miami, a healthy Chicago, or a Dwight-Deron combo to contend for a title.

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Whats funny about the Lillard thing is that even his coach talks about the comparisons Lillard gets to Teague.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Damian-Lillard-Video-Scouting-Report-3946/

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Pau Gasol. SMH. Guy is softer than charmin.

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Seattle/OKC went to the next level when they got rid of Sund.

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Somebody over at Bleacher Report likes Josh & Marvin for Pau Gasol

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1209976-the-super-insane-30-team-nba-trade-that-helps-every-franchise/page/2

rufus1, I would say lets get SF Jeff Taylor from Vandy and develop his already-presumed wing D and let him and Marvin fight it out for starting position.

‘poop,

I like your summary @ 12:33 am. OKC is where we should be if we had foresight in drafting new players, deftness in trading for players/picks (vs. selling them off or getting hosed) and unincumbered by $$$$. *sigh*

I think selling off the 2nd rounder this year and the selling of the 31st pick in 2010 will haunt for years. penny-wise; pound foolish. To build inexpensive quality depth, this is where the scouting dept. and the GM need to work together to unearth a diamond in the rough in the 2nd round, instead of wasting the one commodity we have to do on real project players who we have no intention to play or selling the draft pick to pay for short term luxury tac or just to have $$ on hand.

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slimjr,

Williams might be a better shooter than Smith but do you think D Williams will be a better player down the road than Josh Smith?

Congrats on OKC to getting to the Finals.They have done a good job drafting and being patient and making moves. Key with them is that you have to be patient so when they traded Ray Allen and Durant drafted you have a couple of down years but look at the fruits of their labor now. Key will be if they can contain Harden and Ibaka down the road and some other key guys

Slimjr,

If you were GM of the Hawks what moves would you make to improve the team now?

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@Buddy Grizzard

Don’t forget to add your boy, Brad Davis, to “the list.”

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One of the biggest moves OKC made early on was to hire Sam Presti as GM, who comes from the Spurs front office. In addition to Sam Presti, they also have assistant GMs who came from the Spurs front office.

Without the right front office, OKC is not where they are today. And it helps that ownership stays out of the way.

Hawks, on the other hand, are stuck with Rick Sund (who by the way, was replaced by Sam Presti) and the ASG.

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Just Joe – It’s fun to speculate about trading Joe Johnson. I have. But realistically, I don’t think it’s in the Hawks radar right now, unless a team just blew them away with a deal. But I could be wrong – just haven’t heard anything to suggest it from any party.

But rebuilding this roster for a Championship run, if you don’t think a squad of:

JJ
Josh
Al
ZaZa
Teague
Marvin

And filler makes a title run next season, is to trade Joe, and his ghastly expanding contract.

Josh and Al have chemistry on the court. Josh is committed to winning and improving. Great off season work ethic. Picked this team up and carried it at times during the regular season for some stretches. Had some pretty crazy statlines consistently, like 25-14-6-3-2 and stuff like that. It’s all about convincing him to stay, and wanting to be here.

Look – I can’t stand Josh’s whining and hoisting J’s either – and his mental lapses – but he really, really minimized that part of his game this season, at 26. You’d think that’s only going to get better.

The only reason I trade Josh, is if when I go to extend his contract, he says he doesn’t want to be here.

Right now – I just don’t think ASG is going to trade Joe Johnson. It looks like he’s here for a while longer. But with all these teams in the lottery wanting to trade picks for Wing help, you have to wonder if now is not a good time to shop him pretty hard – before the per season number on the contract get’s any worse, making him more difficult to trade in an ok move – not just a total bad contract swap meet.

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Efficiency ratings for all Guards in the East:

JJ 9th
Teague 13th

That’s out of 30 starting Guards in the East, then top backups as well.

Not bad – our back court is not our problem on the court.

Teague’s biggest weakness? Court vision, which leads to a lack of decisiveness in passing. a second or two late on his passes compared to elite PG’s.

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Josh for Rudy Gay.

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“Can we continue to rely on vet min players to come up big for us (especially in the playoffs)?” – O’Brien

I believe the reason Sund still hasn’t signed his 1-year extension is because he is fuming about Drew playing Pargo (-11) in the 4th quarter of Game 3 instead of Hinrich, who had the best +/- among the starters in that game (0) and against whom Rondo didn’t score a single basket. Sund may be average, but he is not stupid. He knows that the Hawks had opportunities the last two seasons to go to the ECF, and that those opportunities were squandered in no small part by Drew’s penchant for playing scrubs ahead of rotation players.

The Hawks retained Drew without a GM under contract. I believe they did this because Sund, if he had any say-so, would argue that Drew has been a disaster and the Hawks should have moved on. I believe that Sund, if retained, will want to do a complete make-over of the Hawks bench this offseason. Drew will want Collins, Pargo and Green retained. Sund will realize that if those players are retained, it could cost the Hawks a third straight shot at the ECF. Hawks owners might as well make Drew the coach/GM at this point.

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If the Hawks trade Josh to the Lakers for Gasol then they are fools. There’s a reason why teams like the Lakers and Celtics win multiple titles. Lakers and Celtics make these type of trades then win Championships the other teams just tread water. I don’t understand why teams continue to make these whop-sided trades with those teams.

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“I’m comfy with Horford, Pachulia, Collins, Dampier…”

That’s nice, Tyger. I’m sure you’re comfy with more early playoff exits as well.

“I threw around the Rondo for Horford and Teague scenario for a long time. Have this playoffs not shown everyone, that was the right deal to at least offer Boston with Rondo’s play?”

That trade scenario would look pretty brilliant if Josh was healthy. Bringing Rondo here (he’s under contract for three more years at a very reasonable rate) would have made Josh want to stay. The problem is, if you let Horford go you have no negotiating position with Josh. You HAVE to re-sign Josh to a long term deal or risk losing your entire front court. So then you overpay Josh, whose career may be shortened by his ongoing knee issues. I’ve been arguing for a long time on this blog that re-signing Josh was the key to this team’s future. I no longer think that because of the fragility of Josh’s health. Horford is a much better risk at this point. The Hawks need to get what they can for Josh, rid themselves of the redundancy of having two jump-shooting power forwards, and move on with the one who can actually shoot jumpers.

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Just Joe – Agreed. I just don’t think ASG agrees yet

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Don’t underestimate the rift between Sund and Drew. Not only was Drew’s hiring imposed over Sund’s head, but Drew thumbed his nose at Sund by playing Pargo ahead of Hinrich in the playoffs. The trade for Hinrich is the centerpiece of Sund’s tenure as Hawks GM, and Drew chose to go with Joe’s roomie with the season on the line. If Pargo is back as a Hawk next year, Sund may be wearing the GM title, but Drew is the one calling the shots. Make sure you have plenty of ink for that rubber stamp, Rick Sund.

“There are a few GM’s available right now that would be an upgrade but it seems like the ASG would prefer a yes man over a guy who would have his own opinion on what moves need to be made.” – cp

And none of those GM’s that would be an upgrade (Dennis Lindsey) are going to take Sund’s place as the ASG yes man. If the Hawks ever bring in a GM of Lindsey’s calibre, you will know the ASG has finally decided to sit down, shut up, and let people who actually know basketball make the team’s basketball decisions. As long as they stick with guys like Sund/Pendergraph, you know the ASG owners are sitting in their office suites playing fantasy basketball (badly). That being said, after the Teague draft pick, I feel completely comfortable with Sund/Pendergraph running this year’s draft for the Hawks.

“Trade Josh and the #23 pick for the #8 pick and select [Nicholson].”

That would be such a Hawks move since Nicholson could possibly be available at 23.

“I suppose an organizational electrically charged particle would be odd. Not to mention a physics miracle. Somehow, they just can’t make those little boogers organize.” – Sautee

LOL

“Hawks could send the expiring contracts of Josh and ZaZa for Jordan and either Mo Williams or Caron Butler.” – Just Joe

Instant lottery team. Just add water.

“That is why I instantly thought JC2 would make a more immediate impact than Teague.. passion.” – AJ

Teague is a clear-cut starting point guard on a consistently playoff-calibre team. JC2’s impact is such that the starting point guard on a perennial lottery team (Wizards) wants his team to draft a shooting guard.

“Josh Smith for Chris Bosh – HO!!”

Miami won’t make that trade. It makes their hole at center worse.

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I wonder if the Tony Wroten speculation for Sund/Hawks is true? Would the Hawks trade up or down just to stay locked in on this guy?

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Ra’mon,

From nba.com;

Kendall Marshall‘s strange comeback from the broken wrist he knew about (and the fractured elbow he did not) moves to an important stage today as the ex-North Carolina point guard participates in all basketball activities as part of the NBA’s annual pre-Draft camp. Marshall, though, concedes he still has pain and is hesitant to rely on the right arm.

I plan on doing everything,” Marshall said. “It still hurts to kind of dribble and pass, but I’m way farther along than I was, which is a positive. If I keep doing my rehab, hopefully that pain will get to at least a complete no pain.”.

Since the NBA season doesn’t start until much later in the year, does his injury bother you?

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Buddy G – Interesting speculation on Sund/Drew/ASG – Could be…

I say dump Collins, Stack, and Vlad Rad for sure.

I’d put Damp in the maybe camp – He’s not a bad last Big off the bench if he agrees to stay in shape.

McGrady I’d keep if his health is ok, especially if you can keep him for the vet min.

I’m ok with Pargo being the 3rd PG off the bench.

Green showed some good stuff – I still wish we had a better backup behind JJ – I’m not against keeping Green, maybe in a lesser role or something. Good vet presence.

Hinrich showed some energy off the bench, and some good toughness at times. I’m not against keeping him either, just not as a starter.

Hazell and Gladyr may come in and show us enough that they fill in at SG #2 or #3.

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Just Joe – I also agree that Ivan and ZaZa give you a good start for a bench. A healthy McGrady does also, and to a lesser extent maybe Hinrich.

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“Since the NBA season doesn’t start until much later in the year, does his injury bother you?”

OB, I don’t think he will be there at 23, and LD wouldn’t take him anyway, but I would be concerned. Phoenix at 13 could likely be his destination if they can’t get a good read on Nash. And we know about their training staff.

I see Boston making a major attempt to climb the ladder with 2 #1s.

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Northcyde – And there are still gurantees at that:

#2 – Marvin
#5 – Shelden
#6 – Childress
#11 – Acie

I only go after Dwight if he agreed to stay long term.

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Anyone watching the NBA draft combine this am? They just had little Teague on there doing shooting drills and talk about him probably being the best PG in the draft.

It would be a mistake for us to bypass his potential at 23 if we can’t get the shooter we need.

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I don’t say we’re behind Indy just yet – They excelled in the compressed season, because they were deep and had a Coach who rotated them greatly in regular season.

But Barbosa is a FA, so you don’t know if you keep him.

Their cap space is about to take a big hit with the re-signing of Hibbert.

Hill is a RFA.

And West is getting old, what 31, or 32, and coming off big knee surgery a year and a half ago.

And Granger is about maxed out as a player.

Yes, George will probably get better.

But I think Indy was artificially high this season because their Coach did a magnificent job with the compressed schedule and rotations.

They’re good, but not that good. Maybe 46-48 win good next season.

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And let’s settle this Pau Gasol issue once and for all. Some of you simply have pre-conceived notions about the dude. You talk like this dude cannot play basketball at a high level at times. All of these clips were from last season. Just watch the clips from a pure basketball perspective.

Pau Gasol vs Hawks . . . specifically vs Josh Smith

Pau Gasol vs Knicks . . specifically vs Tyson Chandler . . no Bynum in this game, because he’s serving a 5 game suspension for the JJ Barea hit during the 2011 playoffs

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I’m not sold on Philly being world beaters either – they rebelled against Coach Collins the last 60% of the season – then came together to make a playoff run.

But Lou can opt out

Hawes is unrestricted

Thad Young totally disappeared in the playoffs.

Brand is still eating up a chunk of cap space – and he’s a year older.

Just who is Evan Turner? James Harden or Marvin Williams, or somewhere in between (probably).

New York has the potential to really move up as well – but they’ve got alot of question marks also.

And I’m not sure we’re behind Boston next season either.

Just trying to be real.

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“the Sonics/Thunder reverted to a lottery team before they blew it up. The Hawks don’t seem to be in danger of that happening just yet.”

Is the situation the Hawks are in actually better? Is it better to have the 8th highest payroll in the league and be guaranteed to make it no farther than the 1st round, ending up with a pick in the low 20s every year, or is it better to be in the lottery where you might get a shot at adding a true impact player?

The Hawks are in no-man’s land. To me that is the worst place to be.

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AJ – Teague has quiet passion – he really wants to excell both in the off season and on the court when challenged.

What will keep Teague from being great is:

1) He’s not a leader. Not vocally. Not by aura. He’s just not hard wired that way. Just a quiet guy.

2) Lack of court vision. Sorry, he wasn’t born with it, and you either have it or you don’t.

That’s why I’ve said around a 15,16 point per game and 7 assist cap for him, unless he played on a really bad team who needed him to score alot.

And he’ll also have above average D – he has elite quickness. I hope I’m wrong – but I’ve gotta a pretty good eye for these things and I’m afraid I’m right.

But he does have the drive to be great – he’s just quiet about it. He just doesn’t have some inborn intrangibles to make it happen. And Larry, Nick Van Exel or anybody else cannot make it so.

Put Rondo’s head on Teague’s skill set, and you have the monster PG for the ages. Massive elite.

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If you had 20 grand on that action, and few probably did, and it happens – that 20 grand becomes 1.8 mill.

Then you stop gambling at that point.

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It does concern me that JT’s training buddy Jarret Jack got stopped for DUI, and that Teague kinda taped a girl maybe getting violated by a buddy or whatever that deal was (maybe there was nothing too it – I will not bear false witness, so maybe you guys can help me on that one) – I hope JT doesn’t have some off court issues that will hurt him.

If I’m JT, I figure out how Josh is training in the off season, hang out with my Wake buddy Chris Paul a bunch, get married, stay out of trouble, keep my nose clean – and make a lot of money in this League. The sky is the limit for Jeff Teague.

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“I’ve been arguing for a long time on this blog that re-signing Josh was the key to this team’s future. I no longer think that because of the fragility of Josh’s health. Horford is a much better risk at this point. ”

I am pretty sure Josh isn’t the one who missed the majority of this season rehabbing an injury.

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Josh for Lopez is the perfect trade, also remember this D William wan’t to stay in New York, so i could see this trade happen Lopez is young and Josh in his prime.

Next Summer D12 will be on his way to New York is the rumor that’s going on now.

Hawks should make that deal.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Steve, i don’t doubt Teague’s physical abilities. In fact, i think it is his tremendous physical abilities that tend to cloud the judgement of some. They think about what a PG with his physical abilities can do for the Hawks, without thinking specifically about the young man and his specific personality/demeanor. If you focus exclusively on physical abilities, Marvin would be one of the more impactful SFs in basketball. But that isn’t quite the case.

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Out of 30 teams and 60 Starting Guards in the NBA, and Top Sub Guards:

Teague was 29th in efficiency rating. (Joe Johnson was 19th btw)

Teague was 1 of only 5 guys in the Top 30 who played all 66 games

He finished with a higher efficiency rating than:
Ray Allen
Afflalo
Jrue Holiday
Goran Dragic
Kevin Martin
Rodney Stuckey
Luke Ridnour
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Jason Terry
Lou Williams
Isaiah Thomas
Jason Kidd
Raymond Felton
Darren Collison
DeRozan
Augustin
Evan Turner
Kemba Walker
Tony Allen

Just to name a few – all in his first year starting. Not bad.

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northcyde, in previous seasons, when the Lakers were among the best teams, folk didn’t like the idea of trading for Bynum because of his issues with injuries. And during those seasons when Bynum missed 30+ games, Gasol was the low post option for the Lakers. Now, after a single season of health for Bynum, Gasol has suddenly become an after-thought?

Some say that it is debatable if Gasol is better than any Hawk. While I disagree, I’ll gladly trade for someone who is “debatable” as the Hawks best player. It is far better than focusing on trading for Trevor Ariza, Jason Thompson or some other player who may upgrade the talent level in slots 4-8 but won’t impact 1-3.

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Jamal was 67th in efficiency

Interesting about Jamal – he has averaged 17+ ppg 5 times in his career, and 4+ assists per game 6 times in his career – including 2 seasons with 5.0 or more assists per game.

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The dude simply plays where we need a PF or C to play on the court

Pau Gasol vs Celtics

Pau Gasol vs Thunder . . regular season.

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northcyde, you need to put http:// in front of those links for them to work.

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Najeh, you should have your own blog man. I like reading your stuff.

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“If you focus exclusively on physical abilities, Marvin would be one of the more impactful SFs in basketball. But that isn’t quite the case.”

Hate to tell you this, but Marvin physical abilities are not anything to write home about considering his height and length. He is weak, uncoordinated, goofy, and has terrible footwork,

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“1. The Hawks get Emeka Okafor and the [2012] 10th pick.

2. The Hornets get Marvin Williams and Zaza Pachulia.”

Now who is smoking weed?

“If I was going to take this dysfunctional organization’s limitations into account every time I proposed a move they could make, I would be limited to trying to pinpoint what minimum salary players to add to this team.” – Najeh

You should also take into account that Lang Green chat NekiEcko linked. Lang is very much plugged in to the Hawks organization and he says several times that the Hawks are not going to trade a core piece this offseason, including Josh Smith. They want to give this team one shot with a healthy roster and no major moves are going to be made until at least the trade deadline next season. Book it people. Stop with the trade scenarios until you see this team perform in the first half of next season.

“Don’t forget to add your boy, Brad Davis, to “the list.””

Who is Brad Davis? What list?

“Josh for Rudy Gay.”

In a heartbeat. Gives us a legit small forward, removes the Josh/Horford redundancy and Josh gets to go to the team he signed an offer sheet with. Would need to move Marvin to clear cap space.

“It is alleged that Rick Sund wanted to hire Dwayne Casey, but the ASG wanted Uncle Larry”

Dwane Casey, architect of the Mav’s championship defense. Larry Drew, architect of consecutive blown opportunities to reach the ECF.

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Astro Joe

June 7th, 2012
11:09 am

northcyde, in previous seasons, when the Lakers were among the best teams, folk didn’t like the idea of trading for Bynum because of his issues with injuries. And during those seasons when Bynum missed 30+ games, Gasol was the low post option for the Lakers. Now, after a single season of health for Bynum, Gasol has suddenly become an after-thought?

Some say that it is debatable if Gasol is better than any Hawk. While I disagree, I’ll gladly trade for someone who is “debatable” as the Hawks best player. It is far better than focusing on trading for Trevor Ariza, Jason Thompson or some other player who may upgrade the talent level in slots 4-8 but won’t impact 1-3.

********************

Totally agree.

And Gasol doesn’t have to be the best Hawk on the team for it to progress. He simply has to play where we need him to play. Add Gasol to this team, and the basketball IQ, especially in the half court, goes WAY UP for the Hawks.

Right now, the Hawks are too easy to defend, because we settle for too many jumpshots of 16+ feet. As good as people think that Josh and Al compliment each other, a duo of Gasol and Al would be dynamite in the half court offense.

And I still say the big beneficiary would be Jeff Teague, because he’d finally be able to play to his strengths.

I personally don’t have a problem with Najeh’s plan . . but I do have a problem with it right now. Simply trade out the guy who is always the biggest wild card for the Hawks, for a player who is usually consistent across the board, and see how it affects the team.

If Josh is dead set on leaving ATL, you trade him out right now and go with Gasol for one, maybe 2 years. That gives us 3 All-Star caliber players at SG, PF, and C that we can throw at teams. And a young scoring PG that attacks the rim. We actually have that now.

But instead of being known as an athletic team, we’d be known as a half court executing team.

Teague – JJ – vet or young SF – Horford – Gasol

is simply a more balanced team across the board. And it keeps us in a position to win NOW, instead of 8 years down the line.

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Pau Gasol vs Clippers . . vs Blake Griffin and a little vs Reggie Evans

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Pau Gasol vs Knicks . . battling against Chandler and Amare

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Hawks need to hold tight on trading Josh if that’s the case. They need to be knowledgeable of how many teams will have caps space to sign Josh and of those teams what are the possibilities of Josh signing with those teams. Even if he doesn’t want to resign with the Hawks does not mean they can’t work out an S&T deal to help both parties.

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OB,

If the ASG doesn’t want to trade Joe (or any player) to improve the team b/c of their pride then they are bigger fools then we think.

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i think what gdad said was though i dont say blow it up; get rid of every one of the starters except teague and al, along with the coach going, but that isnt blowing it up?

some good stuff today buddy. love the pp in your face comment.

been hoping to see durant hold the trophy before the chosen one. he is the real deal.

also laugh at bradley’s concern for queenie’s feelings. they put the target on their own backs and everyone is using it as target practice. when they say it is tougher than we thought then i might show some pity, but not until the humility bell is rung. until then pour it on bostonians. i might be wearing green tonight as well as i watch.

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2005 # 2 pick Marvin Williams
2006 # 2 pick Lamarcus Aldridge
2007#2 pick Kevin Durant

One year to early. You simply can’t miss on that high a pick unless you are taking a chance on a center, or a player gets injured. I have no confidence in this ownership group making the correct pick if we could get that high again. Marvin over CP3, D Will, and Granger, Sheldon Williams over Rudy Gay, and Brandon Roy, Josh Childress over Andre Iguodala, and Loul Deng. We have made much better picks later in the draft (Teague, Josh, Jason Terrry, Boris Diaw).

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Melvin – Josh is out of here, im telling you Trade Josh for Lopez the Nets will have something to build on, so Nets would take that trade, you bring Lopez in Atlanta he would be your building Block by finally being able to move Horford PF.

Lopez, Horfod, Joe, Teague,

and find a SF now there in position 2 become and elite team.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Slim, you don’t want us picking Mo Harkless…..no way LD will develop the kid. This kid will need some grooming.

We have to go get a guy who has patience and who has an inner ability to get better without any help.

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You guys have to remember im Big Dog, word on the street Josh, D12, D William will be playing in Brooklyn 2013.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Najeh Davenpoop

June 7th, 2012
11:11 am

“hope that a hall of fame player . . check that . . a top 10 ALL TIME player . . is in one of those drafts, and people are too stupid to draft him before we do”

Doesn’t have to be a top 10 all time player. First of all, Durant is great (my favorite non-Hawk) but he is nowhere near top 10 all time yet. Secondly, if the Hawks had played their cards right and drafted CP3 — who, as many astutely point out, is no Durant — they would still be in prime position to seriously contend year after year.

There may not be a future Hall of Famer in every draft but there are certainly franchise-caliber players in nearly every draft. 2000 is the only exception I can recall off the top of my head. Even last year’s weak draft produced Kyrie Irving who may very well turn out to be a CP3-caliber player.

***************

But would the Hawks have won only 26 games during the season in which CP3 was a rookie. Then only win 30 games the next year . . and be lucky enough to land in the top 3 in the 2007 lottery? I mean, that’s what would’ve had to happen.

The Hawks would draft Paul in 2005 . . then be bad enough to still be in position to take Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay in 2006 . . and still be bad enough to have enough ping pong balls to jump us up to #3 in that draft, so that we could take Horford.

Hawks in 2007

PG – Paul
G – Johnson
F – Roy/Gay
PF – Smith
C – Horford

Yeah, if we were that fortunate during our rebuild, we could’ve possibly been in the same position back in 2009, that the Thunder are in now. And that’s the type of “luck” the Thunder had.

- win 31 games with Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis . . then decide to blow it up

- have the 5th worst record ( 28% chance at a top 3 pick ), but land #2 in the lottery

- was fortunate enough to NOT get the #1 pick and take Greg Oden ( whom everybody had at #1 ), but take what was essentially the next Michael Jordan at #2 ( Kevin Durant )

- suck even more in 2007 – 08, because Durant is the only decent player on the team

- have the 2nd worst record in the league ( 46% chance at drafting in the top 3 ) . . but fall to 4th in the draft . . and STILL draft what is now maybe the 2nd or 3rd best player in that draft behind Derrick Rose and Kevin Love ( Russell Westbrook ). All 3 rapidly develop into all-star caliber players within 3 years.

- suck AGAIN in 2008 because Westbrook isn’t quite there yet, and they have no talent outside of he and Durant

- have the 4th worst record in the league ( 38% chance at a top 3 pick ), but land #3 and draft James Harden, the 2nd best player in that draft

- and in between all of that, you promote an assistant coach who becomes potentially the next Phil Jackson? ( Scott Brooks )

Even you have to admit that everything fell perfectly for the Thunder/Sonics. Al Horford is a good player, but if the Thunder has the 3rd pick in that draft, and Oden and Durant are off the board, the Thunder are not where they are today if Horford was the choice in 2007.

So no, it simply couldn’t be any top 3 pick. It had to be a franchise changing top 3 pick, such as a Lebron, a Dwight Howard, or a Derrick Rose.

A Kevin Love, or a Michael Beasley, or an Al Horford, or an OJ Mayo, or even a Blake Griffin wouldn’t have the Thunder at this level . . without Durant being that pick.

Durant is on pace to be a top 10 player of all time. If he’s this good at 23 years old, the only thing that is going to keep him from being top 10 of all time, is injury.

- He’s already arguably a top 3 player.

- 3 consecutive scoring titles.

- 3 consecutive 1st team All-NBA selections

- has one of the best mid-range games in the NBA ( essential for superstardom for a wing )

All he basically has to do is win a few titles, and he instantly becomes the face of the NBA, even over Lebron. From an NBA standpoint, Stern would definitely want a Heat – Thunder NBA Finals, so that all of his future young talent would be on display for the world to see.

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“Please, someone with a better handle than Pargo. He could barely bring the ball up the floor against Rondo & Bradley.”

It’s going to be hard for me to watch this team if they bring Pargo back. Please don’t draft a combo guard who isn’t good at either position (looking at you, Tony Wroten).

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“Sounds really familiar. I remember hearing the same thing about Kirk Hinrich. Nothing has changed.” – Rod from C.P.

Hey Rod, remember in Game 3 when Rondo didn’t score a single basket while Hinrich was guarding him? But when Teague or Pargo guarded him, it was a layup line? Guess what? No Hinrich next year. I guess Joe will have to guard opposing point guards like he did when the Hawks played Chicago last year.

“I might be wearing green tonight as well as i watch.” – doc

LOL me too!

“If that’s our only move this offseason, then I’ll give a “job well done” to whomever the responsible GM may be.” – Just Joe

/co-sign. Ivan can play both forward positions and center. Marvin is a waste of space.

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“Hey Rod, remember in Game 3 when Rondo didn’t score a single basket while Hinrich was guarding him? But when Teague or Pargo guarded him, it was a layup line? Guess what? No Hinrich next year. I guess Joe will have to guard opposing point guards like he did when the Hawks played Chicago last year.”

When has Rondo’s value been determined by how many points he scored. Rondo got wherever he wanted to get on the floor against the Hawks no matter who was checking him. He has also done that against every other team in the playoffs. This Hinrich shut down Rondo fantasy you have in your head is almost laughable.

“The wear and tear on that knee is cumulative, Rod. He may not have missed many games up until this point, but now he’s starting to miss playoff games. Why do you think he shoots all those jumpers instead of banging in the post? He’s trying to extend his career. I don’t believe facts discredit me.”

He missed one playoff game because he was diagnosed with a sprianed patella ligament in his knee. Totally different than knee tendinitis. Won’t get in an argument about the medical side of things, drmaryb, and doc can give you that info, but Josh has no injury history to reflect that his game will change other than age. All players especailly high flyers have to adjust their games as they get older. See Micheal Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Nique, Vince Carter, T-Mac………. He shoots jumpers because that is what this team does. Everyone settles for jumpers, even the great Al Horford. LOL

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If any one of you guys need big money bet on Timothy Bradley Sat. night.

TIMOTHY VS. PACMAN

TIMOTHY WILL WIN

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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re: So you’d rather ‘afford’ Hinrich/MARVIN over Crawford? (high-sider)

Yup….Jamal shoots the ball alot, thereby he scores more than those two, but he gives up much more defensively….you can’t see that?

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Najeh,

Joe and Gasol alone make a combined $39 million next season..

JJ, Josh and Marvin alone make a combined $41 mil next season.

In the ’04-’05 season, OKC went 52-30. After the moves they made, this was their record the next 4 seasons.

35-47, 31-51, 20-62, 23-59. A combined 109-219 (33% win percentage).

Fortunately for them, they nailed their draft picks during that time, but I have no such confidence in the ASG and whoever our GM is. We have seen what the Hawks can do with a #2 pick, a #3 pick, a #5 pick, a #6 pick, and a #11 pick. So now you want to go down that road and see if they get it right this time?

I don’t have a problem trading core players for the right package, but I don’t want to blow it up completely. Not yet anyway.

Melvin,

Hawks need to hold tight on trading Josh if that’s the case. They need to be knowledgeable of how many teams will have caps space to sign Josh and of those teams what are the possibilities of Josh signing with those teams. Even if he doesn’t want to resign with the Hawks does not mean they can’t work out an S&T deal to help both parties..

That’s the approach they should have taken when Marvin became a FA. See which teams had cap space, and which team wanted a starting SF, and compare that to who may be willing to do a SNT. But the Hawks got it wrong.

Any SNT the Hawks work out (for Josh) will be for a trade exemption and a second round pick (imo). How beneficial would that be?

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OB, I doubt that the ASG will hold on to Joe to justify the initial contract. Nene signed an extension last sumer with Denver and was traded before the first year of his new deal was finished. It isn’t a guarantee of the team keeping that player for the life of the deal… in the case of Joe, they decided that they did not want to take a backwards step and did what was needed to stop that from happening. We can debate the merits of that forever… but if they truly wanted to remain “no worse than” (which seems to be their mission statement), then the signings over the past few years have mostly worked.

Didn’t they sign Bibby to a 3-year deal and traded him half-way through that contract?

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If the Hawks keep this team together.

Teague, Joe, Josh, Horford, Zaza

Pargo, Tmac, Marvin, Ivan, Melo

Green, Collins,

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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amen melvin. coaches that dont want the big stage say things like it wouldnt be fair to him to play him the whole game. durant is the next coming of a mix of mj and duncan. well, i can only hope. you know my dream for years has been durant gets his first trophy before queen does.

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doc, yep, TMac’s season here will be less memorable than the year Reggie Theus spent in a Hawks uniform.

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“Najeh, great breakdown of the Sonics/Thunder turnaround. I’m a big fan of getting someone from the Popovich/R.C. Buford/Sam Presti front office tree in here to do the same thing, take a team stuck in mediocrity and put it over the top.”

Thanks. Looks like Mark Bradley stole my idea for today’s column.

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“and in between all of that, you promote an assistant coach who becomes potentially the next Phil Jackson? ( Scott Brooks )”

If Scott Brooks is potentially the next Phil Jackson, you might as well say that about Larry Drew. Don’t know where you are getting this from. Brooks has yet to prove that he is anything more than Spoelstra.

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“So no, it simply couldn’t be any top 3 pick. It had to be a franchise changing top 3 pick, such as a Lebron, a Dwight Howard, or a Derrick Rose.

A Kevin Love, or a Michael Beasley, or an Al Horford, or an OJ Mayo, or even a Blake Griffin wouldn’t have the Thunder at this level . . without Durant being that pick.”

First of all I disagree about Kevin Love. The Timberwolves are one scorer away from becoming an upper echelon team next year. Love isn’t the go-to scorer that Durant is but his impact on the game clearly makes him top 10.

Secondly, of course you need that superstar. That is the whole point of gutting your team and looking for a high draft pick. Without a superstar, you cannot seriously expect to win championships in the NBA. But with that said, that could-have-been Hawks team I mentioned above with CP3 as its superstar would definitely be a legitimate contender. Pretty much every championship team has had at least one superstar, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that superstar has to be on Durant’s level. The Celtics didn’t have a player at that level in 2008, for example.

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I mean, if your argument is that it took a lot of luck for the Thunder to get where they are, I have no arguments there. It takes a lot of luck for anyone to accomplish anything in life. But I am quite certain that Joe and Gasol require a lot more luck to get to the conference finals than the Hawks would to gut their roster and land a superstar in the top 5 of the draft.

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Every small market team is built on luck to a degree. Look at San Antonio. They were a playoff team. And the next season Robinson gets hurt for the entire season almost. And they win the lottery, to draft the greatest skilled big man to enter the draft since Lou Alcinder. If Robinson never gets hurt, Duncan would end up playing for a team similar to the Clippers or Charlotte Hornets. The lottery is luck. And think about it, if OKC ends up with the number one pick that year, they take Oden and not Durant. Now could you imagine Portland with Roy (who would still be playing because he would’ve had more help), Durant, and Aldridge being a three headed monster?

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From Mark Bradley, who sees what we see;

The Hawks went from 13-69 in 2004-2005 to being good enough to win a playoff series three years running. The Thunder have taken the Hawks’ build-via-the-draft method and done it better, adding needed pieces (Perkins last year, veteran guard Derek Fisher this time) as they went.

So what happened to the Hawks’ turn? Has it come and gone? Is this all there is?.

http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2012/06/07/the-hawks-were-there-first-the-thunder-have-done-it-better/?cxntfid=blogs_mark_bradley_blog/

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with rick sund the hawks are doomed.they won”t get any better but worse.injuries are no excuse. sund is terrible but you get what you pay for.

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“What did you tweet Jim Rome? He said it was pornographic, and he wouldn’t read it on air.

I’m not joking – 2:57 PM today on the radio”

Huh? I definitely didn’t tweet anything to Jim Rome.

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Not that anyone wants to hear this… but how many teams have been successful with this whole “building through the draft” strategy? I mean, surely the Hawks and Thunder aren’t the only teams in the NBA who have had 3-5 years of consecutive lottery picks in the past 10 years. If it is so easy that even a casual fan could get this right, then why haven’t we seen success from all of those others franchises that have tried this method?

OK, you may now resume your fanatic rantings.

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PG – Teague . . ( 20th in efficiency at PG in 2012 )

G – Johnson . . ( 4th in efficiency at SG in 2012 )

F – ????? ( Jeff Taylor – Vandy )

PF – Gasol . . ( 3rd in efficiency at PF in 2012 )

C – Hoford . . ( 4th in efficiency at C in 2011 )

The only question mark in that potential lineup, is who we would get to fill Marvin’s spot. Do we go with a cheap veteran, or a young guy in the draft?

Gasol and Horford are interchangable at the PF and C positions and would give you two top level players on the frontline.

The dependence on ISO Joe at the end of games disappears with this lineup, while making him possibly a more efficient player and scorer.

The perimeter defense improves with this group, lessening the burden off of the frontline to cover for guard mistakes.

The potential for Teague to develop into a true PG ( or at least a more efficient scoring PG ) gets better with this group.

Too bad the ASG is too “chicken” to do something BOLD for once.

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FIRE SUND

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On Pendergraph coveting Tony Wroten:

Wroten has probably dropped into the 2nd round:
Two scouting reports I dug up;
1. his shot – he couldn`t hit water if he fell out of a boat
2. he`s a bad teammate

Pendergraph may trade josh for a higher pick …
just to ensure he gets him !

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northcyde, I like Pietrus to add to your line-up. Someone who combines exceptional perimeter defense with the ability to knock down open shots. He made the minimum last season and may want more. He is very good when healthy but is rarely healthy. Your line-up will require another guy to stretch the defense (and optimize Gasol in the post). Rasual Butler is another name, although he has fantasies of being Jamal Crawford andf shooting everytime down the court. I wonder if Grant Hill could be convinced to join that roster?

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Here`s my Arnett Moultrie Scouting Report:
____________________________________________

Arnett Moultrie

6-11, good frame, looks to be 230 or more
I`ve watched some workout tape on him
Lot`s of things to like.
His motor is questionable.

Miss. St. players do ~Not~ tend to translate well to the NBA.
Rick Stansbury is a very good friend of mine,
This causes me disappointment.
He takes in strays – but does not – keep his thumb on them.

Moultrie has a very good skill set
Hits the mid-range easily
Scored well in college /// rebounded even Better !
-so-
Rebounding may be his strong suit
However;
He does not blk many shots

W/O seeing the measureables, it`s hard to tell,
-but-
He may not be blessed with –Great length- [wing span]
Other than that;
No reason for being a (non-shot-blkr).

Comparison = looks like LaMarcus Aldridge
However;
I had a player once:
“ looked like Tarzan, played like Jane “ ?
So he could end up … Charlie Villanueva
____________________________________________

More to Come !

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“The only question mark in that potential lineup, is who we would get to fill Marvin’s spot. Do we go with a cheap veteran, or a young guy in the draft?”

The only kind of cheap veteran possible is one who will take a minimum salary. They will have $12 million to fill the remaining 11 roster spots. So either they nail the starting SF spot down with the 1st rounder, or T-Mac better go to Kobe’s German doctor.

I can think of some other questions, too. Who guards Dwight? Who guards Bynum? When Gasol goes up against physical defenders who punk him and make him crawl back into his shell, who creates shots? Who helps on interior D? Can Al overcome the emotionless passivity of Gasol and Joe to lead this team despite having the ball in his hands less than three other players on the court?

“The perimeter defense improves with this group, lessening the burden off of the frontline to cover for guard mistakes.”

Huh? In what way is Gasol a better perimeter defender than Josh? In what way is Gasol better at ANYTHING on D than Josh?

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Astro Joe

June 7th, 2012
3:43 pm

Not that anyone wants to hear this… but how many teams have been successful with this whole “building through the draft” strategy? I mean, surely the Hawks and Thunder aren’t the only teams in the NBA who have had 3-5 years of consecutive lottery picks in the past 10 years. If it is so easy that even a casual fan could get this right, then why haven’t we seen success from all of those others franchises that have tried this method?

OK, you may now resume your fanatic rantings.

****************

LOL.

Truth be told, the only time completely blowing things up ever works, is if you happen to draft a true superstar in the draft. And that superstar player usually produces right away.

Ask Golden St, Chicago after Jordan/Pippen retired, Washington, Charlotte, Minnesota and others if the “blow-up” works.

It only works when you draft that superstar, and then you can construct the team around that superstar. And even then, it may not work, depending on what teams that superstar has to go through.

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No time to debate with Najeh right now, because I have to go to work

Jeff Taylor was an elite perimeter defender on the college level. He + Teague + JJ makes our perimeter defense better.

Gasol guards Howard, along with a host of other big men. That’s how you guard Howard, by throwing multiple people at him. Here’s the question though . . does Gasol score on, or get Howard in foul trouble? He’s good enough to do just that.

Increase Horford’s role on the team, and he will respond.

Increase Teague’s role on the team, and he will respond.

I’d rather roll with the team I cited, than to simply give up . . blow it up . . and wait 5 years for us to be even at 2nd round playoff level again.

Hell . . we all could be dead in 5 years. I’d rather try to win now.

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“Chicago after Jordan/Pippen retired”

Chicago traded Elton Brand, passed on Gasol for Eddy Curry, and lost their potential franchise point guard to a motorcycle accident.

“Charlotte”

Charlotte drafted Adam Morrison #3 overall, traded a pick for Jason Richardson instead of using it on Joakim Noah, drafted DJ Augustin instead of Brook Lopez or Roy Hibbert, and drafted Gerald Henderson over Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague, and Jrue Holiday.

“Washington”

Too early to pass judgment on them. They looked pretty good late in the season after McGee was traded, and it’s way too early to pass judgment on Vesely, Singleton, or the player they will pick this year.

“Minnesota ”

Minnesota made all kinds of idiotic moves after blowing it up and still managed to come away with future perennial All Stars at PG and PF who are each going to be terrific building blocks for them for the next ten years.

If you make dumb picks and/or suffer bad luck like what happened with Jay Williams, you are obviously going to pay the price. Doesn’t make the strategy bad, only the execution. Of course the draft is hit or miss, but I can point to the majority of contending teams and say they acquired their key players either through the draft or by trading high picks for key players. I cannot think of many contending teams at all who acquired their established key players by trading their own established key players. Very rarely do teams get better immediately by trading a good core player for another good core player.

A truly bold move is to blow it up. Trading one established player for an older, more overpaid, roughly equal established player is not bold. It is just a continuation of the status quo.

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“Hell . . we all could be dead in 5 years. ”

This is more likely than Joe and Gasol leading a team to the Eastern Conference Finals.

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Najeh, I agree with you about utilizing the draft to build a true contender. Heck, BK had that idea about 10 years ago… it isn’t a new one. But that ain’t happening and I have long since left that fantasy behind. It is akin to saying I should leave my wife to chase Stacey Dash. It ain’t happening, but it sounds good.

So the most logical compromise (given that the decision makers have pretty clearly shown their commitment to the standard revenues they receive) is to try and acquire the best fit among available top-notch players or find a team that needs to cross the lottery/playoff line and try to steal a potential up and comer (like Derrick Williams). I’ve moved on to viable compromises because the whole “blow it up thing” is akin to yelling at the rain (or bemoaning a 6 year-old draft).

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I’m a Thomas Robinson fan. I’m not sure which forward position he will play… but that dude is NICE and appears to have that passion I’ve been waxing about lately. He may only become another main ensemble player, but that would be another version of the “compromise” I just talked about. Instead of drafting someone who will take 3 years to find his elbow (in hopes that once he finds it he becomes a top 10 player), draft a guy who looks like he can step right in and contribute (with much lower upside). Again, this ownership group isn’t willing to buy a few million lottery tickets in hopes of winning the big jackpot, they will lose too much revenue and team value by going that path.

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najeh washington already jettisoned a few of its core pieces to get better as they didnt have the right mix. charlotte is just plain incompetent.

minny did it the best way. one we should have made sure was part of the package and still dont know why it never was. that was to find a big league professional coach with a resume and experience.

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Najeh, if you can listen to Rome on the ‘net, on his show today, 1 or 2 minutes before he goes off the air he mentions you by name, except he said Najeh Davenport instead of ‘poop’.

That is beyond weird.

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“re: So you’d rather ‘afford’ Hinrich/MARVIN over Crawford? (high-sider)

Yup….Jamal shoots the ball alot, thereby he scores more than those two, but he gives up much more defensively….you can’t see that?” – donte0808

As a team member of the Hawks for two seasons [2009-2011], Jamal Crawford finished both regular seasons with individual aggregate +/- statistics of +256 and +4, respectively. It’s time to put an end to this [false] notion and idea that “Crawford gives up more points than he scores.” Crawford was also included in the [best] “top five-player [+/- statistical] combination[s]” for the Hawks for the regular seasons of 2009-2010 and 2010-2011, respectively.
———————————————————————————

“…“Don’t forget to add your boy, Brad Davis, to “the list.””

Who is Brad Davis? What list?…” – Buddy Grizzard

You know your boy, Brad Davis. The guy [B. Davis] who the Mavericks spent millions [of dollars] trying to market to Dallas, TX and Fort Worth, TX basketball fans during the 1980’s. Go ahead and add him to your list of “Great _____ Hopes.” You know those guys who supposedly “can’t jump.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohq4FPXSX60
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“…“1. The Hawks get Emeka Okafor and the [2012] 10th pick.

2. The Hornets get Marvin Williams and Zaza Pachulia.”

Now who is smoking weed?…” – Buddy Grizzard

I thought a move or trade [such as the one above] that would allow the Hawks to rid itself of Marvin Williams would be welcomed on the blog. The deal gives the Hawks a [starting] center thereby moving Horford to PF and Josh Smith to SF.

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SteveW, follow football much?

http://www.nfl.com/player/najehdavenport/2505121/profile

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