Atlanta Hawks: Season Review: Jason Collins
Season reviews presented in alphabetical order . . .
One of the Hawks’ odd organizational quarks is the insistence that Jason Collins is more than a specialist best suited for a narrowly defined role. Perhaps even weirder is how often that line of thinking has worked out for them . . . until it doesn’t.
Consider the 2012 playoffs. Larry Drew’s decision to start Collins against the Celtics in Game 1 seemed foolhardy but Collins had probably his best performance of the season in Game 1. He not only played good defense against Kevin Garnett but added six points and five rebounds in 32 minutes.
Collins’ production dropped off in Game 2 but his on-court, off-court was positive even as it became apparent Boston would focus more on attacking him with screen-rolls. Collins was OK in Game 3 but Drew’s faith in him had diminishing returns as Garnett abandoned his strange insistence on posting up Collins.
That Drew stuck with Collins as long as he did is an example of his tendency to give a long leash to veterans who have done anything positive for him in the past regardless of the negative things they are doing at the present (or, for that matter, the limitations suggested by their long-term history). That’s not to say the Hawks had any great options in the front court, especially after Ivan Johnson’s shaky outing in Game 2, but best to try something different when what you are using isn’t working.
I offer these critiques while acknowledging I thought it was a bad idea for the Hawks to bring back Collins in 2010-11. It seemed absurd that part of the reason the Hawks parted ways with Mike Woodson was because he didn’t play Collins enough minutes against the Magic in the 2010 playoffs. But it turned out Collins was a key part of the Dwight Defense in 2011. I also thought playing Collins significant minutes against the Celtics was a mistake but his play in Games 1 and (most of) 2 showed that he could help in small doses.
But if I’ve undervalued Collins at times, the Hawks continue to overvalue him. He’s still a solid post defender in certain matchups, though there’s evidence he’s slipping in that area: According to Synergy Sports Technology, this season Collins allowed .84 points per possession in 32 chances (141st in the league). His defensive on-court, off-court magic subsided even as his opponent PER was respectable.
Those defensive numbers (which, mind you, were accumulated in circumstances most favorable to Collins) would have to be much better to compensate for Collins’ career-long lack of offensive production and poor efficiency for a big man. There’s also the matter of Collins missing six weeks with an elbow injury, though that development had the effect of freeing up frontcourt minutes for Johnson.
Word is the Hawks will extend a tender to Johnson (as soon as they get around to putting a permanent GM in place) which probably would be enough to keep him. Perhaps that also would mean the end of the occasionally-fruitful-most-times-perplexing Collins era for the Hawks.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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344 comments Add your comment
northcyde
June 7th, 2012
11:45 am
smh . . well let’s post those links again. the Hawks link worked, so I won’t re-post that.
Pau Gasol vs Thunder . . regular season
Pau Gasol vs Celtics
northcyde
June 7th, 2012
11:49 am
Pau Gasol vs Clippers . . vs Blake Griffin and a little vs Reggie Evans
northcyde
June 7th, 2012
11:50 am
Pau Gasol vs Heat . . Going up against mainly against Bosh
northcyde
June 7th, 2012
11:53 am
Pau Gasol vs Knicks . . battling against Chandler and Amare
O'Brien
June 7th, 2012
11:55 am
As for JJ, I really don’t think the ASG want to trade him, because that will require an admission on their part that his contract just 2 years ago was a mistake. They will not admit that.
Instead, they will come up with reasons to justify still keeping him on the team.
Melvin
June 7th, 2012
11:58 am
Hawks need to hold tight on trading Josh if that’s the case. They need to be knowledgeable of how many teams will have caps space to sign Josh and of those teams what are the possibilities of Josh signing with those teams. Even if he doesn’t want to resign with the Hawks does not mean they can’t work out an S&T deal to help both parties.
Rod from College Park
June 7th, 2012
11:59 am
“Add Gasol to this team, and the basketball IQ, especially in the half court, goes WAY UP for the Hawks.”
Sounds really familiar. I remember hearing the same thing about Kirk Hinrich. Nothing has changed.
Melvin
June 7th, 2012
12:00 pm
OB,
If the ASG doesn’t want to trade Joe (or any player) to improve the team b/c of their pride then they are bigger fools then we think.
clarkekent
June 7th, 2012
12:12 pm
TRADE JOE JOHNSON TO THE BROOKLYN NETS
doc
June 7th, 2012
12:13 pm
i think what gdad said was though i dont say blow it up; get rid of every one of the starters except teague and al, along with the coach going, but that isnt blowing it up?
some good stuff today buddy. love the pp in your face comment.
been hoping to see durant hold the trophy before the chosen one. he is the real deal.
also laugh at bradley’s concern for queenie’s feelings. they put the target on their own backs and everyone is using it as target practice. when they say it is tougher than we thought then i might show some pity, but not until the humility bell is rung. until then pour it on bostonians. i might be wearing green tonight as well as i watch.
KevinM
June 7th, 2012
12:14 pm
A quick boost to the potential of this roster:
Move Joe/Josh or Al to Charlotte and take their #2 and get us a young gun like Beal or Kidd-Gilchrist. Would we even consider adding a young guy to the starting lineup? Charlotte is not going anywhere without an experienced player.
So watching the draft combine, and I have yet to see ANY Hawks representation.
Ive seen Bird/Thibs/Avery/Carlisle/Ainge/McHale/Wallace/Frank/Kupchak, but so far, no Hawks….are we not allowed in the front row?
SGs that look good in these drills: Buford, Lamb looked okay, Ross
Top guys are holding out from these drills, so better to look for someone up and coming.
William Buford caught my eye overall. Good coverage on this combine.
Rod from College Park
June 7th, 2012
12:15 pm
2005 # 2 pick Marvin Williams
2006 # 2 pick Lamarcus Aldridge
2007#2 pick Kevin Durant
One year to early. You simply can’t miss on that high a pick unless you are taking a chance on a center, or a player gets injured. I have no confidence in this ownership group making the correct pick if we could get that high again. Marvin over CP3, D Will, and Granger, Sheldon Williams over Rudy Gay, and Brandon Roy, Josh Childress over Andre Iguodala, and Loul Deng. We have made much better picks later in the draft (Teague, Josh, Jason Terrry, Boris Diaw).
Just Joe
June 7th, 2012
12:22 pm
BuddyG….Lang Greene’s chat also mentioned the Hawks trying to find a “taker” for Marvin in order to create some cap space. If that’s our only move this offseason, then I’ll give a “job well done” to whomever the responsible GM may be.
BIG DOG
June 7th, 2012
12:24 pm
Melvin – Josh is out of here, im telling you Trade Josh for Lopez the Nets will have something to build on, so Nets would take that trade, you bring Lopez in Atlanta he would be your building Block by finally being able to move Horford PF.
Lopez, Horfod, Joe, Teague,
and find a SF now there in position 2 become and elite team.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Buddy Grizzard
June 7th, 2012
12:24 pm
Najeh, great breakdown of the Sonics/Thunder turnaround. I’m a big fan of getting someone from the Popovich/R.C. Buford/Sam Presti front office tree in here to do the same thing, take a team stuck in mediocrity and put it over the top.
“Since the NBA season doesn’t start until much later in the year, does his injury bother you?” – O’Brien
Wouldn’t bother me if Marshall slipped to a spot where the Hawks could draft him. With Hinrich gone and the Hawks sitting at home because Drew played Pargo, backup point guard is obviously the biggest need for the Hawks. Plus, wouldn’t it be delicious irony if Marshall, the player who took LD II’s starting job at North Carolina, ended up here? Marshall’s injury is not career-threatening. He’s going to be in the NBA for a long time.
“JC2 may not be a starter for a playoff team, but he could easily become a perennial SMOY candidate for a playoff team and have a Jason Terry like career.” – AJ
I’ll check back with you in 5 years and see how that prediction turned out. Meanwhile, Teague is on the rise. With Rose out injured, Teague becomes one of the best point guards in the Eastern Conference at attacking the rim. I believe his passing and shooting will improve next year. The Hawks, since according to Lang Green they are determined to keep this thing together for one more year, are poised to have their best season next year. Teague’s continued development will play a role in that.
“They just had little Teague on there doing shooting drills and talk about him probably being the best PG in the draft.” – KevinM
You beat me to it, Kevin. Marquis is a much more realistic possibility to be available when the Hawks pick. He could instantly replace a lot of what Kirk gave us and if he turns out to be as good as his brother, that’s good because there’s no guarantee that Jeff Teague is going to extend with the Hawks. He hasn’t exactly been treated like a star by this organization.
“I’m not sure we’re behind Boston next season either.” – SteveW
I’m thinking Boston may be the team to beat in the East next year with a healthy Jeff Green, a healthy Avery Bradley, a re-signed KG plust two first round draft picks. Bass and KG are both among the best-shooting front court players in the NBA.
KevinM
June 7th, 2012
12:25 pm
Slim, you don’t want us picking Mo Harkless…..no way LD will develop the kid. This kid will need some grooming.
We have to go get a guy who has patience and who has an inner ability to get better without any help.
Buddy Grizzard
June 7th, 2012
12:27 pm
“The guy has missed maybe 10 games in his whole career, and he has fragile health?”
The wear and tear on that knee is cumulative, Rod. He may not have missed many games up until this point, but now he’s starting to miss playoff games. Why do you think he shoots all those jumpers instead of banging in the post? He’s trying to extend his career. I don’t believe facts discredit me.
“I am pretty sure Josh isn’t the one who missed the majority of this season rehabbing an injury.”
Wow, you guys are really in fantasy land today. Horford was out due to a freak injury that he recovered from to make a substantial contribution in the playoffs. He made as many fourth quarter baskets in two games as Joe and Josh made for the entire series COMBINED. Knee tendinitis is a CHRONIC condition. It’s only going to get worse, and it’s going to eventually rob Josh of the explosiveness which is the basis for his entire game. Thus why he stands outside and shoots jump shots instead of dominating the paint.
BIG DOG
June 7th, 2012
12:33 pm
You guys have to remember im Big Dog, word on the street Josh, D12, D William will be playing in Brooklyn 2013.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Just Joe
June 7th, 2012
12:35 pm
If this is your core/roster: Teague, Joe, Marvin, Josh, Ivan, Horford, & Pachulia…
…then we need the following from free agency/draft (in no order of priority):
1) Defensive-minded 7-footer as 5th big.
2) Wing-defender (strong enough to handle the big SF’s in the league).
3) Instant offense off the bench (preferably a combo-guard that can play some PG in a pinch). A Jamal Crawford-type, if you will.
4) Backup PG. Please, someone with a better handle than Pargo. He could barely bring the ball up the floor against Rondo & Bradley.
5) 3-pt specialist (based on the mix of our team, someone capable of playing some 3).
northcyde
June 7th, 2012
12:42 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
June 7th, 2012
11:11 am
“hope that a hall of fame player . . check that . . a top 10 ALL TIME player . . is in one of those drafts, and people are too stupid to draft him before we do”
Doesn’t have to be a top 10 all time player. First of all, Durant is great (my favorite non-Hawk) but he is nowhere near top 10 all time yet. Secondly, if the Hawks had played their cards right and drafted CP3 — who, as many astutely point out, is no Durant — they would still be in prime position to seriously contend year after year.
There may not be a future Hall of Famer in every draft but there are certainly franchise-caliber players in nearly every draft. 2000 is the only exception I can recall off the top of my head. Even last year’s weak draft produced Kyrie Irving who may very well turn out to be a CP3-caliber player.
***************
But would the Hawks have won only 26 games during the season in which CP3 was a rookie. Then only win 30 games the next year . . and be lucky enough to land in the top 3 in the 2007 lottery? I mean, that’s what would’ve had to happen.
The Hawks would draft Paul in 2005 . . then be bad enough to still be in position to take Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay in 2006 . . and still be bad enough to have enough ping pong balls to jump us up to #3 in that draft, so that we could take Horford.
Hawks in 2007
PG – Paul
G – Johnson
F – Roy/Gay
PF – Smith
C – Horford
Yeah, if we were that fortunate during our rebuild, we could’ve possibly been in the same position back in 2009, that the Thunder are in now. And that’s the type of “luck” the Thunder had.
- win 31 games with Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis . . then decide to blow it up
- have the 5th worst record ( 28% chance at a top 3 pick ), but land #2 in the lottery
- was fortunate enough to NOT get the #1 pick and take Greg Oden ( whom everybody had at #1 ), but take what was essentially the next Michael Jordan at #2 ( Kevin Durant )
- suck even more in 2007 – 08, because Durant is the only decent player on the team
- have the 2nd worst record in the league ( 46% chance at drafting in the top 3 ) . . but fall to 4th in the draft . . and STILL draft what is now maybe the 2nd or 3rd best player in that draft behind Derrick Rose and Kevin Love ( Russell Westbrook ). All 3 rapidly develop into all-star caliber players within 3 years.
- suck AGAIN in 2008 because Westbrook isn’t quite there yet, and they have no talent outside of he and Durant
- have the 4th worst record in the league ( 38% chance at a top 3 pick ), but land #3 and draft James Harden, the 2nd best player in that draft
- and in between all of that, you promote an assistant coach who becomes potentially the next Phil Jackson? ( Scott Brooks )
Even you have to admit that everything fell perfectly for the Thunder/Sonics. Al Horford is a good player, but if the Thunder has the 3rd pick in that draft, and Oden and Durant are off the board, the Thunder are not where they are today if Horford was the choice in 2007.
So no, it simply couldn’t be any top 3 pick. It had to be a franchise changing top 3 pick, such as a Lebron, a Dwight Howard, or a Derrick Rose.
A Kevin Love, or a Michael Beasley, or an Al Horford, or an OJ Mayo, or even a Blake Griffin wouldn’t have the Thunder at this level . . without Durant being that pick.
Durant is on pace to be a top 10 player of all time. If he’s this good at 23 years old, the only thing that is going to keep him from being top 10 of all time, is injury.
- He’s already arguably a top 3 player.
- 3 consecutive scoring titles.
- 3 consecutive 1st team All-NBA selections
- has one of the best mid-range games in the NBA ( essential for superstardom for a wing )
All he basically has to do is win a few titles, and he instantly becomes the face of the NBA, even over Lebron. From an NBA standpoint, Stern would definitely want a Heat – Thunder NBA Finals, so that all of his future young talent would be on display for the world to see.
Just Joe
June 7th, 2012
12:43 pm
Teague / “Backup PG”
Johnson / “Combo-Guard”
“Wing Defender” / “3-Pt Specialist” / Williams
Smith / Johnson
Horford / Pachulia / “Defensive 7-Footer”
Buddy Grizzard
June 7th, 2012
12:50 pm
“Please, someone with a better handle than Pargo. He could barely bring the ball up the floor against Rondo & Bradley.”
It’s going to be hard for me to watch this team if they bring Pargo back. Please don’t draft a combo guard who isn’t good at either position (looking at you, Tony Wroten).
Buddy Grizzard
June 7th, 2012
12:55 pm
“All he basically has to do is win a few titles, and he instantly becomes the face of the NBA, even over Lebron.”
I don’t understand why you put any qualification on that. Here, let me restate that for you:
“When Durant wins his first title two weeks from now, he will BE THE FACE OF THE NBA for the foreseeable future. LeBron James will be a nobody.”
Buddy Grizzard
June 7th, 2012
12:56 pm
“Sounds really familiar. I remember hearing the same thing about Kirk Hinrich. Nothing has changed.” – Rod from C.P.
Hey Rod, remember in Game 3 when Rondo didn’t score a single basket while Hinrich was guarding him? But when Teague or Pargo guarded him, it was a layup line? Guess what? No Hinrich next year. I guess Joe will have to guard opposing point guards like he did when the Hawks played Chicago last year.
“I might be wearing green tonight as well as i watch.” – doc
LOL me too!
“If that’s our only move this offseason, then I’ll give a “job well done” to whomever the responsible GM may be.” – Just Joe
/co-sign. Ivan can play both forward positions and center. Marvin is a waste of space.
BIG DOG
June 7th, 2012
1:04 pm
CP and Buddy Grizzard – Hinrich and Keith Brooking are in the same sentence, JUST DAM
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Rod from College Park
June 7th, 2012
1:06 pm
“Hey Rod, remember in Game 3 when Rondo didn’t score a single basket while Hinrich was guarding him? But when Teague or Pargo guarded him, it was a layup line? Guess what? No Hinrich next year. I guess Joe will have to guard opposing point guards like he did when the Hawks played Chicago last year.”
When has Rondo’s value been determined by how many points he scored. Rondo got wherever he wanted to get on the floor against the Hawks no matter who was checking him. He has also done that against every other team in the playoffs. This Hinrich shut down Rondo fantasy you have in your head is almost laughable.
“The wear and tear on that knee is cumulative, Rod. He may not have missed many games up until this point, but now he’s starting to miss playoff games. Why do you think he shoots all those jumpers instead of banging in the post? He’s trying to extend his career. I don’t believe facts discredit me.”
He missed one playoff game because he was diagnosed with a sprianed patella ligament in his knee. Totally different than knee tendinitis. Won’t get in an argument about the medical side of things, drmaryb, and doc can give you that info, but Josh has no injury history to reflect that his game will change other than age. All players especailly high flyers have to adjust their games as they get older. See Micheal Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Nique, Vince Carter, T-Mac………. He shoots jumpers because that is what this team does. Everyone settles for jumpers, even the great Al Horford. LOL
Slimjr
June 7th, 2012
1:20 pm
General Jerry, you ask me what would I do right now to make the Hawks better?
Addition by subtraction: Break up the Core..They’re not good enough to compete with the elites.
28-47 past two years against the winners! Seen thisB4…..Move on….
As Grandad has referenced more than once in several blogs, this is one of the deepest drafts in years!! I want 3 first round picks and maybe two seconds..Shop Josh to get picks…
We got to get him first: Andrew Nicholson, then go get a guard who can score the ball at will!
The brilliant minds on this blog have all made excellent points to go forward from here….
BIG DOG
June 7th, 2012
1:25 pm
If any one of you guys need big money bet on Timothy Bradley Sat. night.
TIMOTHY VS. PACMAN
TIMOTHY WILL WIN
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Astro Joe
June 7th, 2012
1:27 pm
Melvin, I’m pretty sure that S&Ts will happen less frequently among the better players because the player can only sign a 4 year deal via a S&T. It was written in the new CBA rules. I think it was meant to prevent players from forcing the incumbent team to do a S&T so they get the best of all scenarios… a great contract with the preferred team while the incumbent team who potentially nurtured them gets a piece of paper and the likely empty dream of a future player using the cap space (i.e. Toronto & Cleveland). So the FA (Josh in this case) would have to be willing to accept one less year and the reduced salary (like $15M+) to go the S&T path.
donte080
June 7th, 2012
1:27 pm
re: So you’d rather ‘afford’ Hinrich/MARVIN over Crawford? (high-sider)
Yup….Jamal shoots the ball alot, thereby he scores more than those two, but he gives up much more defensively….you can’t see that?
donte080
June 7th, 2012
1:30 pm
re: “Break up the core” (slimjr)
How quickly we forget what happened last time hawks did that. I prefer we ‘tweak’ the core..
BIG DOG
June 7th, 2012
1:30 pm
northcyde
June 7th, 2012
1:31 pm
Just Joe
June 7th, 2012
12:43 pm
Teague / “Backup PG”
Johnson / “Combo-Guard”
“Wing Defender” / “3-Pt Specialist” / Williams
Smith / Johnson
Horford / Pachulia / “Defensive 7-Footer”
****************************
Teague / Delonte West / Tu Holloway ( 2nd round pick )
Johnson / Shannon Brown
Jeff Taylor ( 1st round pick ) / Anthony Parker / Pape Sy
Horford / Ivan
Gasol / Zaza / Nazr Mohammed
There you go
O'Brien
June 7th, 2012
1:31 pm
Najeh,
Joe and Gasol alone make a combined $39 million next season..
JJ, Josh and Marvin alone make a combined $41 mil next season.
In the ’04-’05 season, OKC went 52-30. After the moves they made, this was their record the next 4 seasons.
35-47, 31-51, 20-62, 23-59. A combined 109-219 (33% win percentage).
Fortunately for them, they nailed their draft picks during that time, but I have no such confidence in the ASG and whoever our GM is. We have seen what the Hawks can do with a #2 pick, a #3 pick, a #5 pick, a #6 pick, and a #11 pick. So now you want to go down that road and see if they get it right this time?
I don’t have a problem trading core players for the right package, but I don’t want to blow it up completely. Not yet anyway.
Melvin,
Hawks need to hold tight on trading Josh if that’s the case. They need to be knowledgeable of how many teams will have caps space to sign Josh and of those teams what are the possibilities of Josh signing with those teams. Even if he doesn’t want to resign with the Hawks does not mean they can’t work out an S&T deal to help both parties..
That’s the approach they should have taken when Marvin became a FA. See which teams had cap space, and which team wanted a starting SF, and compare that to who may be willing to do a SNT. But the Hawks got it wrong.
Any SNT the Hawks work out (for Josh) will be for a trade exemption and a second round pick (imo). How beneficial would that be?
BIG DOG
June 7th, 2012
1:32 pm
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/box/YSports_Boxing/29555385
Astro Joe
June 7th, 2012
1:36 pm
OB, I doubt that the ASG will hold on to Joe to justify the initial contract. Nene signed an extension last sumer with Denver and was traded before the first year of his new deal was finished. It isn’t a guarantee of the team keeping that player for the life of the deal… in the case of Joe, they decided that they did not want to take a backwards step and did what was needed to stop that from happening. We can debate the merits of that forever… but if they truly wanted to remain “no worse than” (which seems to be their mission statement), then the signings over the past few years have mostly worked.
Didn’t they sign Bibby to a 3-year deal and traded him half-way through that contract?
Melvin
June 7th, 2012
1:41 pm
Even the Thunder coach Scott Brooks understand game management.
“”It’s an amazing moment for him to play like this in this moment, in this setting, and I wasn’t going to take him out,” Brooks said.
“I was not going to take him out. I don’t care how many times he looked at me fatigued. He has enough, and I think all of our guys have enough to play. You just have to fight through it.”"
BIG DOG
June 7th, 2012
1:47 pm
If the Hawks keep this team together.
Teague, Joe, Josh, Horford, Zaza
Pargo, Tmac, Marvin, Ivan, Melo
Green, Collins,
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Astro Joe
June 7th, 2012
1:54 pm
TMac? OK, ignore for a moment what you hoped he would be and consider what he actually provided. He had as many impactful moments as Damien WIlkins in the previous season. Why would he be in our plans next season? Because we expect him to get healthier and less fragile as he ages? Because Glenn Robinson isn’t available? We’d be better off bringing in Vince Carter… he won’t get more than a vet’s minimum to maintain his fading career.
doc
June 7th, 2012
1:56 pm
amen melvin. coaches that dont want the big stage say things like it wouldnt be fair to him to play him the whole game. durant is the next coming of a mix of mj and duncan. well, i can only hope. you know my dream for years has been durant gets his first trophy before queen does.
doc
June 7th, 2012
2:01 pm
aj, you know dont you, if tmac goes somewhere else next year it is going to be a topic of the blog similar to the ongoing jc thing. tmac didnt work out here the first year, why should he the second, he was not able to play, tried to create probs through the media and never really grasped or relished the role of not being a starter which is what he is at best. he said it at the end of the year he still wanted starter minutes and acknowledgement. it was putting a round object into a square hole.
Astro Joe
June 7th, 2012
2:07 pm
doc, yep, TMac’s season here will be less memorable than the year Reggie Theus spent in a Hawks uniform.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 7th, 2012
2:09 pm
“But would the Hawks have won only 26 games during the season in which CP3 was a rookie. Then only win 30 games the next year . . and be lucky enough to land in the top 3 in the 2007 lottery? I mean, that’s what would’ve had to happen.”
Not necessary.
If they used their two first round picks in ‘04 on Iguodala and Josh Smith, they would have sucked just as bad as they did with Childress and Josh Smith, and they would have still ended up with a top-4 pick in the ‘05 draft. They would have taken CP3 with that top-4 ‘05 pick, and still been able to make the Joe Johnson trade.
In two years, that would have assembled a core group of
PG CP3
SG Joe
SF Iguodala
PF Josh
C Zaza (who was signed in free agency)
Even with Zaza starting that is a top-tier team in the East, and they would have had a ton of cap space with which to acquire a better center and additional players before the summer of 2008 when Iguodala and Josh would have been up for extensions.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 7th, 2012
2:11 pm
“Najeh, great breakdown of the Sonics/Thunder turnaround. I’m a big fan of getting someone from the Popovich/R.C. Buford/Sam Presti front office tree in here to do the same thing, take a team stuck in mediocrity and put it over the top.”
Thanks. Looks like Mark Bradley stole my idea for today’s column.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 7th, 2012
2:13 pm
“Knee tendinitis is a CHRONIC condition. It’s only going to get worse, and it’s going to eventually rob Josh of the explosiveness which is the basis for his entire game. Thus why he stands outside and shoots jump shots instead of dominating the paint.”
I defer to drmaryb and doc for medical information, but I disagree that Josh’s game is that dependent on his explosiveness. He doesn’t even dunk as much nowadays as he did his first few years in the league. Tyrus Thomas is a guy whose explosiveness is the basis for his entire game. I give Josh a little more credit than that, particularly if he figures out how to use his right hand.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 7th, 2012
2:15 pm
“and in between all of that, you promote an assistant coach who becomes potentially the next Phil Jackson? ( Scott Brooks )”
If Scott Brooks is potentially the next Phil Jackson, you might as well say that about Larry Drew. Don’t know where you are getting this from. Brooks has yet to prove that he is anything more than Spoelstra.
ryan
June 7th, 2012
2:16 pm
If only the ASG could be more like the Thunder see they did not pass on Kevin Durant unlike the Hawks passing on Chris Paul and Derron Williams i have lot respect what Thunder have done ASG are the Three Stooges of the NBA pathetic .
Najeh Davenpoop
June 7th, 2012
2:19 pm
“So no, it simply couldn’t be any top 3 pick. It had to be a franchise changing top 3 pick, such as a Lebron, a Dwight Howard, or a Derrick Rose.
A Kevin Love, or a Michael Beasley, or an Al Horford, or an OJ Mayo, or even a Blake Griffin wouldn’t have the Thunder at this level . . without Durant being that pick.”
First of all I disagree about Kevin Love. The Timberwolves are one scorer away from becoming an upper echelon team next year. Love isn’t the go-to scorer that Durant is but his impact on the game clearly makes him top 10.
Secondly, of course you need that superstar. That is the whole point of gutting your team and looking for a high draft pick. Without a superstar, you cannot seriously expect to win championships in the NBA. But with that said, that could-have-been Hawks team I mentioned above with CP3 as its superstar would definitely be a legitimate contender. Pretty much every championship team has had at least one superstar, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that superstar has to be on Durant’s level. The Celtics didn’t have a player at that level in 2008, for example.
Ra'mon
June 7th, 2012
2:21 pm
O’B, Marshall’s injury doesn’t stop me from wanting him. Even if he didn’t play until January, I still want him. Marshall’s injury isn’t a career threatening like the torn ACL used to be. And very few NBA players have history of injuries to their arm (except for Rondo last season), that plague them their entire career. In Marshall, the Hawks have a floor general for the next 10 seasons. And while players lose their athletic ability. I have never seen a player get dumber as his career goes on. So Marshall’s number one attribute (his IQ) will always leave him a place on the court. Marshall is Jason Kidd without the defense (Kidd is a very underrated defender). People forget Kidd couldn’t shoot when he came in the league with Dallas, Phoenix, and New Jersey at first.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 7th, 2012
2:22 pm
I mean, if your argument is that it took a lot of luck for the Thunder to get where they are, I have no arguments there. It takes a lot of luck for anyone to accomplish anything in life. But I am quite certain that Joe and Gasol require a lot more luck to get to the conference finals than the Hawks would to gut their roster and land a superstar in the top 5 of the draft.