Atlanta Hawks: Rick Sund Q-and-A
More from my interview yesterday with Hawks GM Rick Sund.
MC: What is your evaluation of the season?
Sund: There are two seasons. Once you become a real playoff team, there are two seasons. I thought we had an unbelievably great first season: 40 wins, key people hurt, the players and Larry [Drew] kept their focus. We ended up having the fourth-best record in the East. I thought with all the adversity it was really a great year with the compressed schedule and all the obstacles a team has to climb, which every team has those obstacles. I thought it was good.
The second part of the season is the playoffs and that’s disappointing. I think a great thing when you go through the [exit] interview process you get to talk to the players, and to a man—I still have a couple to do—but to a man they all think we should still be playing. And that’s a good thing. There’s disappointment in their heart. They look [at the playoffs] and feel they are good enough to be playing at the championship level.
MC: When you evaluate the team, are you able to separate out the effects of all the injuries from where you need to get better?
Sund: Two-and-a-half weeks after the season, you are a little bit more pragmatic. The emotions are out of the focus. When you look at it and you have to say, the last four years this team in the Eastern Conference has had the third-or fourth-best record either by the end of the regular season or by getting through the first round and getting to the second round. We’ve had the third- or fourth-best record in the last four years. Our goal is to get into those top two [in the East], because that’s when you have a legitimate shot to get to the finals. That’s that championship level. That’s the NBA’s version of the Final Four. You want to be one of those top two teams playing at the end of May and into June because you’ve got a legitimate shot to win a championship. We’ve fallen short of that. That’s our goal. Having said that, we have to look at our club and say where are the areas we can improve, what can we do without taking a step back. So we will have to explore all opportunities.
MC: The team’s deficiencies were mostly on offense, which came to fruition against the Celtics, a very good defensive team. From a personnel standpoint, how can the team improve offensively?
Sund: Again, you say separate the injuries, you really can’t, because if your key personnel are core members of your club, you are going to miss the points that that person may bring or the rebounds. I think we were one of the better defensive teams in the league, something last season we really wanted to focus on. I think Larry and the team did a great job. Points-wise it was Chicago one, Boston two, Philly three, Miami four, Memphis five, we are sixth. Defending in certain areas [like] field-goal percentage. In all of that, we really improved. I think that was the strength of our team. Now we have got to focus on, can we score a little more. Having said that, our offensive efficiency—which I know you are a big stat guy—was really good in the fourth quarter, particularly the last five minutes of the game. Joe [Johnson] in particular [was good] in crunch time. We were good in the fourth quarter, we were good in overtime games, close games. You are always looking at how you get better. I think some of that will come, if the team is the same, from [Jeff] Teague. Teague is going to continue to get better. He got a lot of easy shots for us in the playoffs for some of our players. Joe really improved his 3-point shooting. Marvin [Williams] shot the 3-pointer pretty good. You are asking me questions that really Larry should answer but I think, overall, the dialogue from the coaching staff and the management last year was [about] defense. We’ve got to focus on that and we can manufacture and we have enough talent to get shots.
MC: Why do you think things like good offensive efficiency in fourth quarter didn’t translate to the playoffs?
Sund: I haven’t really zeroed in on that. I think with the exception of the blowout game, all of the games—and we pretty much dominated Game 1-you take those two games out and the other four games were pretty close and could have gone either way. It was a missed shot here and a missed shot there.
MC: We saw the tension between Joe’s deliberate style that he likes to play and LD’s motion offense, something that he expressed his frustration about at one point. Can that tension be resolved with this personnel?
Sund: That question should be to Coach.
MC: Do you plan to extend a tender to Ivan [Johnson]?
Sund: I’m not going to comment on that right now.
MC: Will you try to sign Josh Smith to an extension?
Sund: I’m not going to get into contract stuff.
MC: Josh had a great year production-wise but–
Sund: I think it was the best year Josh has had, at least in the four years I’ve been here. I’ve said it for the record and I’ll say it again: Irrespective of how the voting came out, he should have been an All-Star. I thought Josh had an absolutely terrific year. He did a great job of making sure, hey, we lost some huge production with [Al] Horford and he picked it up.
MC: But his offensive efficiency fell off, and a large part of that is because he’s taking more shots away from the basket and not shooting–
Sund: You have to ask those questions to Larry.
MC: But from a personnel standpoint, do you think he fits with what Larry is trying to do offensively?
Sund: Yes.
MC: Does that mean the migration away from the basket–
Sund: Those are questions you have to ask Larry. I think he’s an All-Star player. He played a total All-Star caliber play this year. He’s been exceptional in the post. I thought his defense was great. He’s one of the better passing power forwards in the league. I think he had a very good year.
MC: Is it your perception Josh is still happy being here with the Hawks?
Sund: I’m going to have his exit interview sometime this week. But, yeah, when you read the things of him saying . . . He’s such a competitor. I was talking to his dad the other day, and he mentioned we all think we should be playing, and that’s great. And [Josh] is one of them.
MC: Can you discuss tour team salary situation going forward?
Sund: I don’t like to talk about it until we find out what the taxes are and the league does its audit. We are in a situation where we have six guys under contract and we will have to fill in either via trade, first-round pick, second-round pick. How much room [under the tax level] do we have to use the mid-level, the bi-annual. We have all of those exceptions. Its’ too early to say.
MC: Is it possible you may have to build the same way as last year, when you had to find some value with minimum-salaried guys?
Sund: Many of the good teams are going to have to finesse their way around and look at that as an option. If you don’t want to be a perennial taxpayer, you have to look at those options. . . . I thought our team this year had a legitimate chance to get to the one or two spot [in the East]. We ended up with the fourth-best record in the [East] but we thought we could still be playing. I asked ownership if we think we are going to have a chance to make a run at it, we are going to have to dip our toe into and go into the tax and pay a little bit of tax. And they did it with no problem. We are an official taxpayer this year and I thought that was a good move for us given the injuries.
MC: I know you probably haven’t had much chance to study prospects in detail, but do you have an idea of the quality of depth in the draft?
Sund: I’m a real division of labor guy and that’s Dave Pendergraft and Mike McNeive, they focus on that all the time. I am getting more involved. During the year I go out and see some people but really focusing in on the groupings, where we pick at 23 who is going to be there, who do I really need to look at, who do you like in the combines, who do you not like. Chicago [combine] has become a really good tool because it’s basically all interviews for two or three days. That’s turned out to be really more productive than even in the past, when they just play.
MC: Have you gotten a feel from Dave and Mike on what they think about the draft prospects?
Sund: They’ve handled the draft pretty good the last couple of years. We got a good player in Teague and we got a good player in [Jordan] Crawford, which we parlayed into [Kirk] Hinrich. They feel that we will get a quality player at the 23rd pick, or there are quality people there. There are a few people they like that they might want to move down to get. Who knows. It’s way too early to tell. The lottery is tonight and next week is when it really starts to focus.
MC: How do you think that Crawford trade turned out now that Hinrich’s contract is expiring?
Sund: We felt we could make a run last year. Not quite as good as this year [but] we had to get through Orlando. It was the first time in four years we didn’t have home-court advantage and many people picked Orlando to win the conference. And then we took the best team record-wise [the Bulls] where we won the first game and then won another game. Hinrich didn’t play in that [series]. We like to think if Hinrich did play we would have advanced that round. It’s just unfortunate he came in with the injury this year. But I don’t think there’s any question in my mind that we wouldn’t have advanced to the second round last year without Kirk on our team.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
535 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
June 5th, 2012
10:01 am
Najeh,
I would roll the dice on Dwight for one year too, but I don’t think that deal is going to happen. Would I love to keep Josh and trade some combination of JJ and Al? Sure.
In the meantime, a Josh and Marvin for Gasol trade may just tread water, but I would rather try it for a year and see. If it doesn’t work, then we have Gasol’s $20 mil as an expiring contract to trade and blow it up completely.
Teague-JJ-defensive minded FA-Gasol-Horford would be the starting 5. And with Zaza (and hopefully Ivan coming off the bench), a bigger offensive role given to Jeff, and a couple of smart signings, I would like to see what they can do.
Boston should be a different team next year, Rose will be coming off a major injury, and who knows what to expect from Orlando, Philly, Indiana and the Knicks, so maybe they find a way to get to the ECF. If we lose again in round 1 or 2, then blow it up. LD”s contract will be up then, Zaza will be a FA, hopefully bring in a new GM, and Gasol would only have 1 year left on his deal, so we could start over.
Astro Joe
June 5th, 2012
10:20 am
Just Joe, I like your trade idea. I had been playing around with a Darko, Derrick Williams and Ridnour for Joe deal.I think the T’wolves have enough cap space to absorb the extra salary and a Love-Rubio-Joe core would likely put the T’wolves in the playoffs for the first time since Sam Cassell and choke-man were on the team with KG.
Here’s the thing about using playoffs to measure individual players. 9 out of 10 players have sub-par individual stats whent hey make it to the playoffs… and the farther they advance, the worse their stats become. It is pretty simple, the better defensive teams typically are the opponents the deeper you go into the playoffs. If your team scores fewer points against better defensive teams, that almost always translates into the better scorers on your team scoring less than usual. If team A is playing a top 5 defensive squad, that top defensive squad typically isn’t focused on shutting down players 4-10 on the team, they are primed to stop options 1-3. Again, maybe 1-10 players can defeat that but the vast majority of players will fail. While Rod’s fasciantion with Jamal is a little creepy, he is right that having a player capable of creating instant offense is critically important in the playoffs. (BTW, I’m 98% certain that Jamal is no longer that type of player, but I digress). So all of this talk about Al not performing well against elite defensive teams is both accurate and irrelevant. IMO, 90% of players are impacted by playoff-caliber defense. What we’re seeing in the playoffs (especially in the West series) is that having 4+ viable scoring options is super important to produce 90+ points/game. Of course, running a scheme that doesn’t require making 18-22 footers all game long would be nice to see also, and having players who can actually execute plays out of a TO would n’t be an awful thing… but again, I digress.
KevinM
June 5th, 2012
10:26 am
Orlando considering Jeff Bowers for GM…did they not watch him trade Oakafor for Tyson Chandler? It was a year removed from reaching the ECF and Bowers was not going to keep Chandler:
7/28/2009 – The Hornets have been trying to unload the 7-foot-1 Chandler for several months. Last season they sent him to Oklahoma City, but the trade was rescinded after Chandler failed a physical amid concerns over a lingering toe injury.
Chandler would have looked nice on that OKC roster and there would not have been a need for Perkins.
But you can tell OKC knows talent. We don’t have anything like that happening at Philips.
Astro Joe
June 5th, 2012
10:29 am
Fool’s Gold
I’m feeling lazy today so I’ll let one of the “I have to see it to believe” bloggers go and do the research, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the Hawks relied on the 3-ball to score more than any other playoff team. In other words, let’s say the Hawks averaged 100 PPG in the regular season and averaged 5 3s per game, that would be 15/100=15%. My guess is that percent (whatever it is) is likely higher for the Hawks than other teams. The Hawks were not a great offensive squad and if they have to rely on making 3s to produce an average amount of points, then that would make it fairly easy to defend them (at least for a superior defensive team).
We need Woody’s offensive coordinator and LD’s defensive coordinator and then we might have the right assistants in place to do something. And add Laimbeer to stand on someone’s throat when they make a boneheaded play.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 5th, 2012
10:30 am
“The other 10 shots he made in that series came within 6 feet of the basket. And he was flat out dominant in the 4th quarters of Game 5 and 6, going 9 – 11 FG.
He shoots 59% in the series.
Explain how he did that vs the Boston frontline please?”
Because he hangs around the basket (a fair criticism of Josh) and gets those shots set up for him, much like Tyson Chandler. Case in point, the beautiful lob Josh threw to him in the 2nd quarter of Game 4.
This is partly why I don’t think the Hawks necessarily have to choose between Josh and Al. I think their games complement each other better than many people think. If you find a way to clear Joe and Marvin off the cap, keep Teague/Josh/Al, and add a #1 scoring option at the 2 or 3 who is actually worth the max, this becomes a dangerous team. The hard part is figuring out how to get that #1 scoring option without a high draft pick, because players like that almost never change teams in free agency.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 5th, 2012
10:34 am
“Denver sends ATL Wilson Chandler, Mozgov, Harrington and the #20 pick for
Josh Smith”
Not a huge fan of Mozgov or Harrington, but I would do Chandler and Faried for Josh even if the Nuggets didn’t throw in a pick. I wonder if Denver would do that.
Astro Joe
June 5th, 2012
10:37 am
The hard part is figuring out how to get that #1 scoring option without a high draft pick, because players like that almost never change teams in free agency.
Why do I find it hard to believe that Josh would welcome some wet-behind-the-ears-youngster joining the Hawks as the #1 scoring option? The issue is more than just finding the player, it is also about the remaining players accepting a role that may not be as prominent as they desire.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 5th, 2012
10:39 am
“Would also love it if Josh didn’t quit on plays to argue refs, as if the refs were going to change their mind and it would benefit the Hawks more than, you know, hustling back on defense. ”
Would love if LD got in the refs’ ear so that players didn’t have to do so. Not excusing what Josh does, but good coaches stay in the refs’ ear so that players can do their job. Look at Doc Rivers on the sideline. Every time they show him on camera he is talking to a ref or to a player. Can’t remember him ever sitting in his seat whistling like LD.
Astro Joe
June 5th, 2012
10:49 am
I can’t help but wonder (given the recent link between Josh and Rondo) if some of Josh’s frustrations are based on pre-NBA history. Like what if Josh was head and shoulders better than Rondo when they were at Oak Hill. I mean, that is fairly easy to see, right? And now all of a sudden, Rondo is considered a potential HOFer and JOsh hasn’t seen an All-Star game?
What if Josh felt like he was a better all-around basketball player than HOward when they played together in AAU? That is possible, right? I mean Josh likely has always had terrific court vision coupled with comparable athleticism (in a smaller frame). And Josh probably has never been straight wretched at the free throw line. I think it is plausible that at one point, Josh was considered the better ball player than both Rondo AND Dwight.
And now?
I wonder if instead of considering how those guys may have improved, or how they may have accepted coaching or how they may have matured off-the-court that helped them on the court, that Josh feels like he didn’t get what those guys received… attentive coaches, loving fan bases and talented teammates. And while there may be truth in all of that, surely there was something that JOsh could have done differently. Surely he isn’t a total and complete victim of his surroundings. Surely he wasn’t powerless to improve his situation and reach another level of performance.
OK, that ends the Dr. Phil segment of the blog.
Sautee
June 5th, 2012
10:50 am
“Sautee, I’m saying if Al moves to the PF, then his trade value will go down. The very things that make Horford productive as a center, are the very things that will become less reliant at the PF position for him.” – Ramon
Ramon, you are contradicting yourself. You say that you don’t believe that Josh will leave, yet your reason (you say) for wanting to trade Horford is that his trade value will disappear after this coming season. If Josh does not leave, why would Horford move to PF? Thus, why would his trade value diminish?
BTW, I’m in agreement, as we have previously discussed, that center is Al’s best position. And you never responded when I posted Al’s interview with MC where he said the Hawks have matchup advantages with him at the 5 and Josh at the 4, that they needed to take advantage of. You had posted about wishing Al would say something about Josh staying. The interview clearly shows that Al is not after Josh’s position, but wanted an additional big body in the rotation.
Buddy Grizzard
June 5th, 2012
10:54 am
“So all of this talk about Al not performing well against elite defensive teams is both accurate and irrelevant.”
How is that accurate? Horford had as many 4th quarter field goals (9) in two games against BOS as Josh and Joe had COMBINED in 11 games between them. I’d say Al performed brilliantly!
“Orlando considering Jeff Bowers for GM…did they not watch him trade Oakafor for Tyson Chandler?”
Kevin did you see this:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-kendall-marshall-the-playmaker
Interesting notes about Bower and Dennis Lindsey. Apparently Lindsey is thought to be seeking a team where he will have more control, whereas Bower is known to be able to fit into a situation where he will be one voice among many with Alex Martins having ultimate power.
I said it before… if the Hawks could land Dennis Lindsey it would show the league that the owners are finally willing to step back and let basketball people run the team’s basketball operations. What will actually happen is that once they agree on a salary, Sund will be back for another lame duck year to rubber stamp the decisions of the ASG who will NEVER give up control. They really think they know basketball, these owners who signed off on the Marvin draft pick.
Just Joe
June 5th, 2012
10:59 am
Astro Joe….I’d be in favor of a Joe Johnson trade that brought in Derrick Williams.
Joe Johnson trades:
1) to Washington for R. Lewis’s $13.7M buyout & 32nd pick in draft.
2) to Golden State for A. Biedrins, R. Jefferson & 30th pick in draft.
3) to Dallas for B. Haywood, D. Jones & L. Odom’s $2.5M buyout.
4) to Minnesota for D. Williams, L. Ridnour & D. Milicic (nod to Astro Joe).
5) to Phoenix for J. Childress, H. Warrick, and J. Dudley.
6) to Lakers for MWP, J. McRoberts & S. Blake.
Rod from College Park
June 5th, 2012
10:59 am
“While Rod’s fasciantion with Jamal is a little creepy, he is right that having a player capable of creating instant offense is critically important in the playoffs. (BTW, I’m 98% certain that Jamal is no longer that type of player, but I digress). So all of this talk about Al not performing well against elite defensive teams is both accurate and irrelevant. IMO, 90% of players are impacted by playoff-caliber defense. What we’re seeing in the playoffs (especially in the West series) is that having 4+ viable scoring options is super important to produce 90+ points/game.”
No facisination with Jamal in particular. I just am aware what he provided on this team because he played here. He was our best scoring option behind Joe Johnson last year in the playoffs. Josh nor Al were really scoring options. Teague stepped up, but he was an unknown. So to your point, if we need 3 to 4 scoring options to win in the playoffs unless you are the Heat, with Jamal on the team this year, we would have had 3 or 4, and if you include Horford 5 scoring options. I have to believe that we would have had a much better chance of advancing being that we only averaged 82 ppg. In reality this year we had 2 scoring options, Joe and Josh. Contain both of them, and you force Marvin Williams, Pargo, Green, Teague, and Hinrich to beat you in the playoffs. I’d take those odds anyday. Interesting to know that you are 98% sure that he is no longer that type of player, when he put up almost the exact same #’s in 16 less games, with less mpg playing in a whole new environment, while leading the league in FT percentage. I guess I would be in that 2% (LOL).
High-sider
June 5th, 2012
11:10 am
@drmaryb.(*_*).
drmaryb.(*_*).
June 5th, 2012
8:01 am
High-Sider!
Your brackets look stupid, and Poop is jealous. You two are stuck on stupid!
Stupid!!!!
———————————————————————————-
Kinda like “[Russell]-Westbrook-wearing-[eye]glasses-[without-the-lenses]” stupid? That’s cool [if that's how you see it]. [LOL]
Rod from College Park
June 5th, 2012
11:19 am
“How is that accurate? Horford had as many 4th quarter field goals (9) in two games against BOS as Josh and Joe had COMBINED in 11 games between them. I’d say Al performed brilliantly!”
He played two games and was guarded by Ryan Hollings. He is an ALLSTAR. I would expect him to perform well. Did you see the playoffs last year ? How did he perform then, when teams game planned agianst him?
KevinM
June 5th, 2012
11:41 am
Buddy, makes perfect sense to bring in Lindsey even though they accepted the fact they had to ignore the luxury tax to shoot for the ECF.
The Spurs are paying no less than 20 players to find the best roster head to toe. That isn’t happening here. We are working on mimimum effort here and the owners here would never give up authority. They vetoed BK moves, and are probably doing the same with Sund, although his moves are full of yawns.
Orlando will meet their demise with their decision to have multiple people having to sign off.
I would be satisfied just to never hear Gearon or any or his minions spout off about anything. They truly are not in it to win it.
Astro Joe
June 5th, 2012
11:46 am
Buddy, I was including last year’s playoffs in my statement about Al. Anyone who wants to judge him based on 3 games against the Celtics after returning from a multiple-month injury is just being silly. And those bloggers are also ignoring a phenomenal performance in Game 4 (I think, or maybe Game 5).
SteveW
June 5th, 2012
12:08 pm
AJ – I do agree that 32 or 33 years old, Jamal is pretty much on the down side of his career.
Najeh – And I do agree that Josh and Al have good chemistry on the court. Folks do overlook that.
And I do see a path to the ECF’s next season – because I do think Boston will be down, I’m not sold on Philly (what happened to Thad Young in the playoffs? Guy disappeared for what Philly needed), and I think we can beat Indy on a consistent basis. Orlando is shot for awhile. And NY has so much drama between Amare’s health, ‘Melo’s conditioning, health, and shots – is Lin back etc.
The Bulls probably lose Asik this offseason, and Rose is gone until the All Star break. Not looking good in Chicago.
The East too me looks like:
Miami
Then New York, ATL, Indy, Philly and Chicago, in no particular order. I could see the Hawks beating any of those teams in a series – even Miami.
Wade will be older. Haslem, Battier, Miller, and even Anthony will be older.
Next season’s probably as good a shot as we get for awhile to make some real noise in the playoffs.
KevinM
June 5th, 2012
12:11 pm
I say Josh should be moved simply for the fact that the ASG will not pay Josh more than Al. Do you think Josh is looking to stay at the same salary level he is now? He’s at 13.2 and I am sure he knows how much David Lee makes.
So if Josh went to the Lakers, he would get that salary easier to getting it from the ASG.
No way we move our all-stars……before Josh.
SteveW
June 5th, 2012
12:12 pm
Chalmers is not a half bad PG seeing the playoffs. Miami is missing a C plain and simple. If they solve that problem this off season with Chris Kaman or somebody, they’re heads and shoulders above anybody else in the East.
My surprise team next season in the East? Cleveland. Then Detroit. Monroe and Knight will be scary one day.
SteveW
June 5th, 2012
12:13 pm
Toronto has the Coach – if they can get some players, they can make some noise as well, as far as making the playoffs etc.
glw
June 5th, 2012
12:15 pm
1) to Washington for R. Lewis’s $13.7M buyout & 32nd pick in draft.
2) to Golden State for A. Biedrins, R. Jefferson & 30th pick in draft.
3) to Dallas for B. Haywood, D. Jones & L. Odom’s $2.5M buyout.
4) to Minnesota for D. Williams, L. Ridnour & D. Milicic (nod to Astro Joe).
5) to Phoenix for J. Childress, H. Warrick, and J. Dudley.
6) to Lakers for MWP, J. McRoberts & S. Blake.
Just Joe, please explain, not sure your reasoning, but what is the fascination with trading Joe Johnson. Sure Joe is overpaid, and disappears in the playoffs. But I am not interested in trading Joe for straight garbage and becoming an awful team. The East is influx, nothing is a sure thing for next year outside of Miami. Sure if we can trade Joe and get a young player and a 1st rounder, ok.
SteveW
June 5th, 2012
12:15 pm
Peachtree hoops asked the question should Ivan be a part of the core going forward to build around. I say yes, in a limited degree.
That guy is a poor man’s Udonis Haslem. I do think his past problems may scare other teams from offering him too much money – I can’t see anybody offering him more than 2 years 4 mill (total), just because of his baggage. GM’s won’t like the risk.
SteveW
June 5th, 2012
12:17 pm
I’d like to see the Hawks keep Ivan for the next 3 years or so. He is 28 or so already, so I’m not sure beyond that.
SteveW
June 5th, 2012
12:19 pm
Been reading some scouting reports. Seems a general consensus is that Tyler Zeller is maybe the safest pick in the draft after Davis. Tons of folks have more upside, but the general consensus is for Tyler: 10-12 ppg, 8-10 rbg, 10-12 years in the League.
I’d take those numbers for a #12 pick or so, especially at the C spot.
SteveW
June 5th, 2012
12:25 pm
I’ve been rooting for the Spurs, but my head tells me OKC, then Miami, then Boston.
The only way I see OKC losing this thing is if a rift develops between Westbrook and Durant like last season in the playoffs.
And could somebody give 30-40% of whatever it is that Rondo has to Jeff Teague, Joe Johnson or somebody on the Hawks?
When Pierce fouled out Rondo mouthed to Garnett – “We gotta win this game”. Now that’s leadership – a 26 year old 21st pick talking to a future HOF’er like that.
Rondo didn’t say it like a plea, but a command – like it’s up to you and me now KG. Now that’s leadership I like.
SteveW
June 5th, 2012
12:31 pm
Northcyde – Would you do a Josh for Al Jefferson trade straight up – especially if we knew we could sign Jefferson after this season?
I doubt the Jazz do that, but they do have a backlog on bigs with Jefferson, Favors, Millsap and Kanter. I’m thinking they may try Josh at the 3.
SteveW
June 5th, 2012
12:34 pm
OKC may be able to stick together for awhile:
Durant 17m
Westbrook 15m
Harden 12m – or do you think he’ll get the max
Perkins 8m
Ibaka 8m
That’s 60 million for 5 players – but it’s also a best case scenario – some of those guys may command more.
And Thabo has shut down Parker pretty good since game 2. Parker is a beast however, make no mistake about that.
Ra'mon
June 5th, 2012
12:39 pm
Sautee, you are contradicting yourself, not me. You just said it clearly said that Horford wants to play the center position, though reports say those close to him say he wants to play PF (his father). But you say Al doesn’t. Then you turn around and suggest that Josh wants to be traded. Though Josh has never come out and said those words, only reports exist of those close to him saying that. You can’t dismiss one and accept the other. Either you accept both, or dismiss both.
I’ve said many times that I would prefer for the Hawks to keep Josh and Al, and for Al to continue to playing Center. In my mind, the Hawks have three great options, trade neither of them, trade one of them, or trade both of them. I just think as a team though, if you must trade one, because he’s locked up in a contract for more seasons, Al would bring back more in a trade than Josh. And I believe if Joe was to go down for 2-3 weeks again (like he has been doing the last two seasons), that Al would not be able to keep this team with having a winning record during those games Joe is missed. So if Josh is gone, its clear that Al will be playing the PF position. And that’s why many of us always talk about Al playing the PF position, and comparing him to Josh. When the last time you saw someone on here post an idea of Josh being traded for another PF (besides the silly Josh for Bosh that happened last year)? Everyone always say trade Josh for a starting center and a small forward (or Gasol, who they slot in their center position). So if you’re asking me if I’d rather have Josh or Al starting at PF, I’m going to say Josh.
northcyde
June 5th, 2012
12:43 pm
Buddy Grizzard
June 5th, 2012
5:47 am
“I can’t believe anyone could shoot more than Kobe? Is this really true?” – drmaryb
No, I said Josh takes more long jumpers than anybody EXCEPT Kobe. If you go to basketball-reference and go to the shot finder, search for all players, shots between 15 and 23 feet. Then, once it pulls up the list, click at the top of the column for field goals attempted, so it sorts in order of most FGT. The top ten in attempts at this distance, followed by their shooting percentage (plus Joe Johnson) are as follows.
1. Kobe 445 FGA .404
2. Josh 410 FGA .366
3. Dirk 392 FGA .490
4. Garnett 363 FGA .496
5. Monta 357 FGA .401
6. LaMarcus 354 FGA .421
7. LeBron 352 FGA .403
8. DeMar DeRozan 351 FGA .345
9. Westbrook 350 FGA .426
10. Gerald Henderson 339 FGA .401
21. Joe Johnson 280 FGA .404
As you can see, the only person in the top 10 in attempts at this distance that shoots worse than Josh is DeRozan. JOSH TAKES MORE LONG JUMPERS THAN DIRK!
“Memphis needs a closer for some games. And JJ is great at that.” – Ra’mon
As of last year’s playoffs, JJ had the second worst shooting percentage among active players in win-or-go-home playoff games. Not my definition of a “great” closer.
*************************
Buddy, it’s an incredible stat on Josh, and you have to place as much blame on Larry Drew for that, as you do with Josh Smith. Josh ranks 2nd on shots from 15 – 23 feet . . . but 84th in percentage made from that range.
When you narrow it down even further, from 18 – 22 feet, Josh was #1 in the NBA with 302 attempts ( despite only shooting 36.1% from that range ). The next closest person in attempts from that range? Kevin Garnett . . . with 230 ( and shot 49.6% ).
In fairness to Josh, he shot 42.1% in 2010 – 11 from that same range on 240 shots. Hawks fans would take that all day, if he completely abandoned the 3 point shot. But his jumpshot can’t be depended on because his shot selection is so suspect. There is no filter in his head on what is a good shot or a bad shot.
Midrange misses are worse when Josh misses, because there’s normally only one person within 15 feet of the basket who will corral that offensive rebound. You simply can’t have your PF taking that many shots from that range, if he’s not making a high percentage like a Garnett, an Aldridge, or a Nowitzki . . or an Al Horford . . or a Pau Gasol.
But the bottom line goes back to offensive balance. For this team to progress, we just can’t have Joe Johnson and Josh Smith essentially taking the same types of shots. Somebody has to play around the rim more. And we all know who that person must be, if this team is kept together.
northcyde
June 5th, 2012
12:48 pm
As for JJ’s closing and his playoff performances . . .
God knows that JJ’s shot is unreliable at times, because he has a tendency to settle for too many 3 point shots even when ice cold ( ala Jamal Crawford ), instead of trusting his midrange shot or getting into the paint. And that’s why JJ has failed more often than not in the playoffs. That, and the fact that drawing a foul on a shot is almost unheard of for him. And even when he does get hit, he doesn’t get the call.
Tim Legler while talking about Lebron’s inability to close games, cited that all of the great closers in the game were midrange KILLERS at the end of games. The ability to take and make that midrange pull up jumper, is what normally separates stars from superstars. And while Lebron IS a superstar, his inability to consistently knock down midrange shots is what separates him from the great closers in the game.
Not only does JJ not make enough midrange jumpers in the playoffs, he doesn’t take enough of them at times. And worse, enough plays aren’t designed for him coming off screens for him to get decent looks for midrange jumpers. He makes it bad on himself though, because sometimes you need to just go quick and shoot the damn ball, instead of dribbling for 10 – 15 seconds before deciding what to do.
Joe Johnson from 16 – 22 feet in the playoffs
2008: 28 attempts . . 35.7%
2009: 31 attempts . . 41.9%
2010: 60 attempts . . 43.3%
2011: 62 attempts . . 37.1%
2012: 14 attempts . . 42.9%
Josh Smith in the playoffs from 16 – 22 feet
2008: 21 attempts . . 38.1%
2009: 34 attempts . . 29.4%
2010: 20 attempts . . 45.0%
2011: 38 attempts . . 21.1%
2012: 38 attempts . . 31.6%
Does anybody in the Hawks organization look at advanced stats? People act like stats don’t tell the ENTIRE story, but they give a Cliff Notes version of exactly what is happening. Some of you want to completely dismiss stats, and just go by what you see with your eyes. They both go hand in hand folks. Stats simply confirm or disprove what is really going on.
NekiEcko
June 5th, 2012
1:13 pm
How about this
JJ for Rudy Gay with filler from both sides, then if Josh still didnt want to stay, then trade him.
northcyde
June 5th, 2012
1:18 pm
Rod from College Park
June 5th, 2012
8:33 am
OK northcyde. So lets take a 2 game sample size. In the first two games vs the Celtics, before he got hurt, Josh was averaging 19pts, 12 rebounds, 4.5 assist, 2.5 turnovers per game (less than Joe) all while being guarded primarily by one of the best defensive centers in the league. See how easy that is. Josh scored on the Celtics also. It’s obvious Horford has fresh legs, as he was more active than anyone on the floor. He played well, but should we not expect that from our ALLSTAR CENTER. Especially when Josh Smith and Joe Johnson were the guys that the Celtics were focused on stopping. Lets also not forget that Horford (the guy that shot 9-11 in the 4th quarter in the playoffs) is the guy that missed a free throw that puts us in overtime in game 6. Lets please not forget that. Do you want 9-11 in 4th quarter, or 2 of 2 free throws to continue your season?
*****************
We’re not even in position to shoot those 2 FTs at the end of Game 6, if not for the the 5 – 6 FG performance in the 4th quarter by Horford. Josh Smith in the 2nd half of Game 6 was 1 – 8 FG for 6 points . . while Horford went 5 – 6 FG for 11 points in the 4th quarter alone.
But you want to take shots at Horford?
Really?
And Josh needed 41 shots to score those 38 points in those first 2 games for 39% FG ( but I see you purposely left that out ). And of those 41 shots, 22 of them were from 16 feet or more ( only made 6 of them . . 6/22 = 27% shooting from that range ).
Is that the efficiency and shot selection you want from your PF?
Joe Johnson in those first 2 games was only slightly more efficient, needing 32 shots to score 33 points, but shot a far worse percentage ( 31% ), because he was living too much on the outside as well.
But go ahead. Try to find ways to discredit a guy who suffered a damn near catastrophic shoulder injury, and sucked it up enough to not only play, but to play well.
Astro Joe
June 5th, 2012
1:40 pm
Steve, some combination of Millsap and Josh at forward would be easy to defend… just play zone as neither is reliable from 18 feet out. Any team looking to play Josh at Sf better have someone like Dirk at the other forward position.
northcyde, yeah, this pentangle offense has quickly devolved into “who wants to take the first jump shot?” It kind of makes it hard to imagine why a player would work on any aspect of his game other than jumpers during the off-season… if that is what is required as a player in this scheme.
northcyde
June 5th, 2012
1:44 pm
SteveW
June 5th, 2012
12:31 pm
Northcyde – Would you do a Josh for Al Jefferson trade straight up – especially if we knew we could sign Jefferson after this season?
I doubt the Jazz do that, but they do have a backlog on bigs with Jefferson, Favors, Millsap and Kanter. I’m thinking they may try Josh at the 3.
*****************
SteveW . . . in a heartbeat. Jefferson is a legit low post player who isn’t going to spend 40 – 50% of his shots taking jumpers he normally doesn’t make. Jefferson led the league in shot attempts from 15 feet and in. His defense is weaker than Josh’s, although he can and does block shots.
Trading Josh for Jefferson would be a no brainer. The next move I would make is get a defensive minded PF to bring off the bench. That way, if push came to shove, you could put the defensive PF/C on whomever the best offensive frontline guy was, and let Jefferson have the weaker guy.
But a Horford – Jefferson frontline would be a game changer from an offensive standpoint. The other unseen drawback is that for as big as Jefferson is, he doesn’t get to the FT line nearly enough. He’s like a finesse post player, instead of a powerful one, despite his body build.
Gasol is better though, all around.