Atlanta Hawks: On Josh Smith’s future

1st again…

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Can’t blame Josh for feeling that way. I’d be pretty p-ssed if I was in his position and I saw a scrub like Marvin getting extended and paid more than half of what Josh makes.

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I don’t blame Josh for not committing to an extension. Hold this sorry group of owners (ASG) feet to the fire. Can’t blame him for still feeling under appreciated from his first contract negotiations.

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It’s got to be tough to watch a guy half as talented as you keep getting invited to the AllStar game and make the All Whatever team while your left out of everything..What a joke that is..

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Gortat – Zaza – Draft pick
Horford – Frye
Johnson – Williams
Draft pick – FA shooter
Teague – resign Pargo

Boom.

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Heard a rumor that Mr. Fal-can’t Fanatic has left the building? So should we shed a tear or jump for joy? LMAO!

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There he goes blaming the fans again…We’ve heard that tune before..

1-Championship in 155 combined seasons spread over almost half of one CENTURY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I propose that this City has the worst Professional Franchises in Pro-Sports history?

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Answer this, how did Josh hold it down while Mr one-handed dribbler was out of commission for 3 months hanging out with Camel toe?

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I’d be pissed if I was Josh too. Sund treated Chills and Josh different than any other guys in this lineup. He groveled over Joe, Marvin, even frickin’ Bibby and Zaza and didn’t let any of them test the market. After year 1, I had Sund on my inept list and he hasn’t left it.

Josh should go test the market and be in control of where he wants to play. And he does sound like he’s moving on…..While once I was all for Josh, that was before LD came around. Josh’s value has not improved under LD.
” As for Marvin Williams, there hasn’t been a market for him for going on three years now.”

You can’t include him in any deal unless you take back a twice as bad deal. No one is fooled by Marvin’s limitations….except Sund.

All 3 could be dealt, and no one should complain because this trio has done very little to prove their worth. We haven’t even sniffed the potential to get past the 2nd round. So no stat Gearon and Sund comes up with should make anyone renew their tickets until serious changes have been made.

SteveW, are you listening? Its time to quit settling for this mediocrity…..Chik Fil-A 4 packs shouldn’t convince anyone to see this core play any more games together.

MC, is everything on hold waiting for Sund to make a decision? Aren’t deals able to be formulated after the draft lottery?

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“As for Marvin Williams, there hasn’t been a market for him for going on three years now.”

Whoa there MC, there are Duck enthusiasts that would put on their cape and find you where you lay.
As for Josh, he wants to play with a pure point or in the limelight. Nothing the team can offer him right now.

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Gearon Jr is the reason why D12 wont come here Genius……

“Crack is Whack” Whitney Houston- Rip

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insert [banging Camel toe]^^^^

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“Answer this, how did Josh hold it down while Mr one-handed dribbler was out of commission for 3 months hanging out with Camel toe?”

Torn pec knocks out most football players (who are tougher than NBA players) for their entire season, like Mario Williams last season. Based on the numbers, Josh had a slightly better season, but we’re not talking about superstar numbers – he wasn’t even averaging 20-10. If you read what I posted above, it’s obvious how they survived: They had great shooters. Sund did an underrated job of filling out the roster, whether we like him or not. Hawks lost to the Celtics because they didn’t have enough in the paint for the entire series, so KG went off on both ends. If they had Horford and Zaza from the start, they probably win.

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My plan right now would be to:
1) Trade Marvin for Biedrins straightup (Salaries seem to match well enough and the Warriors save 9mil the following season)
2) Draft a SF 1st round and PF 2nd round (I like Jeff Taylor at SF and Drew Gordon or Mike Scott at PF)
3) Then pickup either JJ Hickson, Marreese Speights or Ersan Ilyasova with part of the Mid-level
4) Extend Smoove from somewhere around 12M for 5years

This will put the HAWKS about where they are now and give them next year and the year after to see Horford, JJ and Josh play together. If it isn’t working at that point then amnesty JJ and start rebuilding.

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Josh played some of the best basketball in the country during that Feb-Mar stint..

The Hawks missed ZaZa more in that Celtic series than All Whatever..

I do agree, with both suited up going into the series Hawks win probably in 5..

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After Josh is gone, I would shop Joe..And even shop All along with Marvin…

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I can understand why he feels the way he does, but he isn’t the 1st pro athlete to have a “woe-is-me” attitude and think they’re not being taken care of by ownership/management. So there’s hardly a story there.

For me, my biggest gripe about him is how uncoachable he seems to be. It blows me away that he’s so dense that he won’t stop shooting long jumpers (at a higher rate than anyone in the NBA not named Kobe) even in the face of hitting only 32% of them. There’s no question that 2 different staffs over 6 years have been unable to convince him to abandon the long Js. Unless they’re enforcers (like my man Ivan) then I don’t want any thick-skulled players.

On that note, I pray to the basketball gods that Sund (or whoever is there) is able to parlay “Smoove” (I hate it when players conjure their own nicknames) into a top-10 center such as maybe Chandler or even an aging Gasol (Hawks’ current window is only open for 2-3 more yrs anyway)… move Horford back to his natural 4… move Joe to the 3 spot… and suddenly the Hawks have one of the best frontcourts in the league. Of course, prayers are just that when talking about Hawks ownership and front office.

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In other words we need to trade Josh Smith. Get something for him before its too late.

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If you have never played with a point guard before, of course you would want to start some day. This is pretty much common sense.
If I’m athletic and a few inches from 7 feet… HELLO I WOULD LIKE A PLAYER THAT CAN GET ME IN POSITION TO SCORE.

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MC – Hawks can’t worry about Josh, let him walk if he decide 2, can’t keep going back and forth with players if not happy.

Bring in a center and move Horford 2 PF and Josh 2 SF

Hawks would be a good team only if LD come to his sense.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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MC, how could trading Horford leave as many holes? The Hawks just finished playing a season in where they ended up with just as good of a record and playoff position without Horford as they get with him. So if Horford brought back a high production player, or 2-3 good production players, then how would the Hawks be left with as many holes as they had this past season? If you subtract Al, Kirk, and Marvin from last season’s team, that’s over $25 million lower in salary cap, and you still have a great chance to produce the same type of record (look at the drop off in production in Teague, Pargo, and Green when Kirk returned). So trading Al should very well be on the table (especially if there’s anyway to include Marvin with him).

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“I don’t understand the hatred for Al. Many of the things he does do not show up in the box scores, unselfish plays for other teammates, and he clearly lit a fire under the team when he returned.”

I am not an Al hater, but please help me understand what he does that does not sow up in the boxscore. What unselfish things are you referring to? Any warm body with a pulse would have ignited the Hawks. They were undermanned and injured. If Zaza came back, he would have lit a fire also. The facts are Al really does nothing better than Josh, but shoot a 15 foot jumper at a higher percentage.

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“But from a basketball perspective and wanting to remove distractions and selfishness from a locker room, you take Horford.”

Please inform me what distractions and selfishness you witnessed in the locker room? So the best rebounder, best defender, and one of the top assist men on the team is selfish?

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Once again, I ask why are we ok with settling for cheering for a team that isn’t committed to winning a championship? Shouldn’t this be the make or break off season for us as fans to tell ownership put up or goodbye? In the eastern conference playoffs, each team appears to be more in a championship mind and committed than the Hawks. Even on this blog, just about every one who has posted on this blog in the last two days, have been posting on Hawks blogs since before Al Harrington was traded.

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Rod from College Park,

Let’s take what you suggested then, making the 15 ft jumpers. Read my above post from 3:31pm on here, it has stats to back up what the Hawks/Josh’s problems were (and have always been) – bad shot selection. Most coaches would rather have a guy who plays to his strengths, instead of someone is clearly not playing the right way (taking a lot of bad shots) and let it hurt the team.

Also, for others who have mentioned it, the lack of PG excuse doesn’t work. Teague had a very good season in his first year as a starter, yet the Hawks still had issues on offense because the same guys keep going ISO and taking bad shots. Offense has always been the Hawks downfall in the postseason.

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Who would you rather have on the Hawks: Russell Westbrook or James Harden?

Your answers will say a lot about what you value from a player/team concept.

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Dead on right on Jeff Teague . He has developed a sweet game & is a legit NBA point guard . The Hawks have just made to many front office blunders . I woundn’t mind if Sund left . Signing Marvin to an extension & the JJ supermax were awful . I know it falls on Billy Knight but taking Marvin Williams over CPIII was as terrible as any draft move in the NBA in recent memory . The only decision should have been whether to draft Paul or Deron Williams .

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Sugar Ray @ 4:23 – You know logic has no place on this blog. They’d rather have a more “athletic” guy taking shots from way beyond his range, yelling cuz he thinks the PG is taking some of his shots from him than a guy that plays to his strengths and shoots over 50%

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Guys, this is the trade I would make, and its a gamble (as all trades are). However I believe it would be worth it and accepted.

Atlanta gets:
Demarcus Cousins
Jason Thompson
And Sac Kings 1st round Pick

Sac gets:
Josh Smith
Al Horford
And Atlanta’s 2nd round pick.

The Maloofs need some box office draw because they’re still trying to find an arena fund or a new city to play in. I believe Josh and Al INSTANTLY puts them in playoff contention with Evans and Fredette. And the Maloofs know if they put an interesting product on the court, the fans in Sacramento will once again start to come out in waves. And they are willing to hire the big name coach like Van Gundy to coach those guys into the playoffs.

The Hawks should do it because I really believe that would be a top 5 pick they get in return. And with the pick you draft the player that has the biggest superstar upside to go along side Joe, Teague, your new big man in Cousins, Thompson, and Zaza. If it turns out to be the 2nd pick, you take Drummond, and roll out the new twin towers, let them clean up Joe and Teague’s misses while learning how to dominate the lane. On two occasions, I’ve seen Cousins outplay Bynum. I’m not saying he’s better than Bynum, of course. But the same thing that happened to McGee when he got out of a losing atmosphere could happen to Cousins. And with Thompson and Zaza you will upgrade to having the best big man depth in the eastern conference.

Teague – Joe – sf – Cousins – Drummond (or Thomas Robinson if it ends up being 5th pick).

While the Hawks may not win as many games next season. In two years, you’re fielding a hard match up for anyone in the playoffs.

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The most important thing no one has brought up: For those who want to extend his deal, as Josh gets older, he will continue to lose his explosiveness which means he’ll rely MORE on his jumper. Horford has always had a mid range game, one of the league’s best bigs in that capacity, so he will age well and have a long productive career if he stays healthy. But Josh isn’t the same explosive athlete he was 3-4 years ago, so what kind of player will Josh be in 2-3 years when he can’t dunk and block like he used to? Just think about it. Is that how you guys want to invest another big contract?

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[...] Atlanta Hawks: On Josh Smith’s future – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]

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Slimjr, Al’s best position is the 5. Yet, Al will never make another all star game again unless Dwight heads west and not to Brooklyn. D12 and Hibbert will be the new Ewing and Mourning of big men in the east. And there’s no way the media starve Hawks will be able to market Al enough to change that. With this postseason the Pacers and Sixers most assuredly just secured majority of the Hawks national television games on ESPN.

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Sugar Ray that question you present {pick between a talented starter or a bench player} is like that left hook you missed on, coming up empty…

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“Sugar Ray, you realize James Harden game is the same game of that of Joe Johnson before he the mask right? Look at an old game of Phoenix where Joe goes off, and you will see Harden.”

No not even close. Harden is more like a young Manu Ginobilli, He’s arguably the deadliest pick n roll player in the league, and also one of the most efficient at getting to the free throw line, that’s why he will have nights of scoring 25 while only taking 12 shots. Great outside shooter also. Joe never got to the FT line that often and has never been an elite pick n roll ballhandler.

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You guys really want to bring back the corpse of Jason Collins? Isn’t it time to let go?

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“Also, for others who have mentioned it, the lack of PG excuse doesn’t work. Teague had a very good season in his first year as a starter, yet the Hawks still had issues on offense because the same guys keep going ISO and taking bad shots. Offense has always been the Hawks downfall in the postseason.”

We actually agree that the offense is the problem, however I tend to blame the coach for the offensive woes. I have not seen us run a decent play in the playoffs in 3 years. We have no offensive system except ISO, which leads to bad shots from everyone.

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I would have no problem with Josh getting $63M over the next 5 years (that’s his 2012/13 salary plus a 4 yr extension with 5% raises each year). I want this guy to retire a Hawk. Next, I want to get him a good coach and get rid of “dead weight” teammates like Marvin Williams.

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Bash Horford all you want but there is a reason the coaches put him on the All Star team while Josh waits and whines about being left out. Guys like Josh don’t deserve to make it because of their attitude and their negatives outweighs their positives.

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Since you insist on comparing Joe and Harden, here you go (both at age 22, 3rd season):

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=johnsjo02&y1=2004&p2=hardeja01&y2=2012

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Well slimjr, you said Horford didn’t have an impact, so if you are right, we now know they couldn’t get out of the first round led by Josh against an old as hell Celtics team that had no bench. If that’s all the Josh-led Hawks can do, the leader doesn’t sound like much of leader to me.

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Don’t compare Nique to Josh.

Nique is an all time great, in the Hall of Fame.

Josh can barely make his case to get into the All Star Game.

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Super Ray, how are those numbers not very similar? Joe averaged more assists while Harden averaged more free throw attempt. Either way they both have an ‘old man’s’ game.

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The leader Josh was playing on one leg after game one. And he still managed to average a double double, while having to guard KG instead of Al guarding KG.

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Marcus, if you want an idea on who we will draft, just look at the prospects ability to play more than one position. This management team along with LD all want to brag about our versatility, yet we get less of a basketball player.
So, don’t be surprised when you hear the Hawks select a power forward. It won’t be what we need, but it will be who can play C, PF and maybe SF.

Don’t let any draft pick surprise you. After all, we did draft a PF last year in Benson, only to dump him and say we wasted that pick.

All the crack staff assistants Sund supposedly has, and we can’t get one draft pick right?

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On his callup to the Warriors last year, guess who he beat out?
“In 19 D-League games this season, Benson averaged 15.1 points and 7.6 rebounds to go with 1.4 blocks per game. It wasn’t until after Friday night’s performance of 17 points, 11 rebounds and three blocks, however, that the Warriors decided to tell him they planned to call him up (he was matching up with Brian Butch, a fellow call-up candidate, for what it’s worth).”

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Ramon, you would honestly take Joe over Harden? Even if the money was equal?

Other than post-up, what does Joe do better than Harden right now in terms of skillset?

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KevinM…that draft pick will be 6′7″ 240lb SF/PF Draymond Green. He’ll take Marvin’s spot at SF within the first month. Fills up every category on the stat sheet. Great court vision and feel for the game. He & Ivan Johnson will bring it every night. He’ll have trouble defending the quicker SF’s, but unlike Marvin, this kid has a back to the basket game to even things out on the other end of the court. No more putting your best defender on Joe and sending a skinny, little SG to go stand in the corner by Marvin.

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Sugar Ray… Great Post!!!!

Sugar Ray

May 25th, 2012
3:31 pm

DISCIPLINE & TALENT is what makes you great….TALENT without DISCIPLINE makes you Charles Barkley… No Rings.

Lack of DISCIPLINE is a sign of intelligence…. and Josh is the MOST UNDISCIPLINED player on our team.

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Compare Josh’s shooting chart I posted at 5:34pm with Al’s shooting chart below:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=horfoal01&year_id=2012

All you really need to see how Al’s offense actually IMPROVES each quarter.

1st – .400 FG%
2nd – .586
3rd – .605
4th – .667

Shooting 58% with under 3 minutes in the quarter. 53% when it’s a 5pt of closer margin.

Then look at his shooting numbers against Boston.

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Matter of fact, Barkley was still averaging 15 and 10 at age 36 with the Rockets… at 6′6″ tall with a bad back.

So being short is no excuse for today’s post players. Some just want to be jumpshooters but aren’t built for that life.

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As long as Joe Johnson is on this roster, they will never be top of the line competitive. He is an above average player making excessive amounts of money. His contract is unloadable. Can you think of any other “star” that you couldn’t trade away if you wanted? I would mortgage next year if we could unload him, trade Josh for something. Keep Al and Teague. We are stuck for years with that Joe contract that will be like an anchor tied to a canoe trying to go up the river.

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“Most coaches would rather have a guy who plays to his strengths, instead of someone is clearly not playing the right way (taking a lot of bad shots) and let it hurt the team.”

True. In other words, most coaches would rather have players that they have to spend less energy coaching. This is why coaches are usually not in charge of personnel decisions.

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@Sugar Ray

“So being short is no excuse for today’s post players. Some just want to be jumpshooters but aren’t built for that life.”-Sugar Ray

That is all most of us have said about Josh… JUST DO WHAT YOU DO WELL and STOP trying to be something you are NOT!!!

PS. You are presenting FACTS… Josh LOVERS don’t listen to facts.. They treat them like UFO sightings.

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Dwight Howard is a Coward
-rhymes-
DH denying he had anything to do with VG firing !
-cowardly-

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“Who would you rather have on the Hawks: Russell Westbrook or James Harden?

Your answers will say a lot about what you value from a player/team concept.”

Your question tells me you’ve been watching too much Skip Bayless. Both of those players are indispensable to the Thunder.

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Sugar Ray

James Harden

# 3 ranked two guard in NBA.

-by my standards-

“unless I`m forgetting someone” … Kobe; Wade; Harden: Afflalo

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“Other than post-up, what does Joe do better than Harden right now in terms of skillset?”

I am a big Harden fan and I have no problem with ranking him as a top 5 NBA SG, but I would caution you against overrating him considering he is playing as the 3rd option on his team and never has to deal with the amount of defensive attention that Joe sees on a daily basis. Joe, in his last couple of years in Phoenix, had a role that was similar in many ways and flashed some of the same skills. Let’s not forget Joe averaged 25 points per game for a season shortly after he came here. Harden is good, but it is very possible he is no more of a franchise player than Joe. No way to know for sure until he is actually placed in that situation.

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Yes put Harden in a starting role and lets see if he can maintain that degree of excellence especially when he will be targeted defensively game in and game out…

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“You can’t say Josh didn’t step his game up based solely on his stats and then in the same post say Al’s contributions go beyond the stat sheet. Josh assumed the role of the #1 option and it resulted in better ball movement and open rhythm shots for those shooters you give Rick Sund so much credit for finding.”

Then how much criticism does Josh deserve for all of those terribly inefficient shooting stats I posted on the first page? I’m sure he does a lot of things that go unnoticed just like Al, and Zaza, etc. But it’s obvious that the Hawks’ biggest weakness has always been shot selection on offense, and with him as the #1 option this season, the glaring holes grew even more and the team made an earlier exit in the playoffs. All I see his fans doing is blaming everything on the coach, no responsibility on the player whatsoever, and we’re talking about about someone who has been in the league for 8-9 years.

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Flip the Switch…..

What if Josh went down for 3 months and Al had to became the #1 or #2 scoring option? Hmmmmm

Oh boy….

I thought I was done?

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“I am a big Harden fan and I have no problem with ranking him as a top 5 NBA SG, but I would caution you against overrating him considering he is playing as the 3rd option on his team and never has to deal with the amount of defensive attention that Joe sees on a daily basis.”

Harden is often guarded by the opposing teams best perimeter defender and is still unstoppable on the PNR, transition, spotting up, etc. Just because Lebron is clearly the dominant player on the Heat doesn’t mean Bosh is overrated.

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The lulls in offense come from someone not controlling tempo which falls on the point guard and coach. You have to have someone that can control the offense and I’m not talking about iso Joe.

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“Josh’s efficiency numbers are lower than Al’s in part because of shot selection, but also in large part because Josh’s role on the offense is much greater than Al’s.”

As bad as those shooting stat look for Josh, do you believe he should get more shots than Horford?

This group would be better off in a pick and roll offense since Teague is a good ballhandler and Al is one of the best pick n pop bigs in the league. Josh’s role should be some post plays and plenty of cuts to the basket for dunks and easy lay-ins… but the problem is he doesn’t like to post up. Joe needs to be running off screens and spotting up on the wing. But none of this happens because Josh and Joe love to break the play via isolations and take bad shots… it looks bad to viewers, which is why people clown them and Hawks attendance because no one wants to watch ugly selfish brick filled offense.

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All I’m going to say is this and then I’m done. In previous playoffs series All NBA would virtually disappears..2012 does not count[fresher legs than everyone else since being injured for 3 months]

In reality because of his inability to create his own shot he should be a 4th option at least on offense..

If Josh had 3-4 years left on his contract All would be shopped pronto..

I’m done, I hope?

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Smith lead all power forwards in assists. 2nd only to Love in defensive rebounds. 2nd in steals. 6th in points per game. 2nd in blocks.

He is ready to break out next season. He’s going to pack on a few more pounds and work on the right hand to get more comfortable. The team needs a vet point that can get all four guys to trust him at the right moments.

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@ Sugar Ray

The most damning thing against Horford why are no teams asking for him why instead are they asking for Josh Smith?

Apparently they know something the ASG, but we the fans do Josh is a game changer If we have all our pieces on the court and they played like they were suppose to be We’d be in a ECF battle with the Heat and we just might win the battle.

Why because look at the Pacers roster and look at ours besides the advantage of Hibbert and David West what else does the Pacers have over us maybe coaching, but we’ll see on that.

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“The most damning thing against Horford why are no teams asking for him why instead are they asking for Josh Smith?”

When the Hawks made a run at Dwight this past offseason, Orlando wanted Horford, but it was nixed mainly because Dwight did/does not want to play in Atlanta.

Josh should be the one traded… “sell high” on players like a stock. People keep ignoring all of these reasons that HE is ASKING to be dealt. Why keep someone who doesn’t want to stay and disses you as fans? Doesn’t make any sense to me. Sounds very similar to the situation with Joe actually. If they cut bait and traded Joe when he had high vaue and wanted out, they wouldn’t be in this position. You fans shouldn’t want them to overpay another guy who will increase the amount of jumpers taken as he gets older and his athleticism fades.

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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1194669-atlanta-hawks-josh-smith-most-snubbed-this-year

NUFF SAID

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doc, I am missing the connection between firing someone who provides you a service for a fee (an agent) and having a lead assistant suggest that he can do a better job than his boss who put him in that lead role. The agent has many clients and the nature of that position is one of churn… clients come and go. Having a lead assistant allegedly betray you seems like something less ordinary. I think your staff is suppsed to be like family, while your agent is essentially a hired gun. You work with your staff each and everyday, I doubt that head coaches speak to their agents more than 2x/month. One is like your “your boy”, the other is like your barber or tailor.

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Spent!

“I will never understand why everyone butcher’s the ASG. This year they had the 9th highest payroll and the 7th worst attendence.” – jim -
______________

Because, they don’t spend wisely. If your worst neighbor spent 61M on an olive green Ford Pinto, and, parked it beside your 39M Mabach? Would you be impressed?

Maybach Landaulet Convertible (Daimler AG)
MSRP from $1,382,750

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AJ sorry to see your naïveté. Dolan and the group that is called CAA is connected at the hip. If woody were really loyal he would have stayed with the group that brought him there. By ditching them and going with Dolan’s group he is doing what is best for him and his family to make sure he gets what he wants in spite of a long term relationship that would be a thorn in his new bosses side. Isn’t that all LD did once Woody had buried himself was to do what was in his grasp in spite of previous loyalties, just like Woody has done and why the question was brought to him by the press? “Woody, did you make the change to get the job? Oh no, says woody I was going to make the change of my own accord” but obviously my own loyal assistant I wouldn’t let leave for greener assures is a bad guy. Don’t play dumb AJ.

AJ if you believe it then I feel for ya. You have seen too much of it in your own life in business and palace politics. That was also a long term relationship Woody had or the new York press who will see right through any false pretense like barracuda in a school of red snapper would never have brought it to light, no?

Anyway, I doubt the churn side you speak of among stable coaches and players. Most times unless it is a TO client there are few changes.

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Slimj bury your head if you want. I am pleased for Woody, really though I thought his false pretense was sad. That is true especially now that he throws an old relationship under the bus like he claimed LD did. Sorry if you can’t see the hypocrisy in it. Business is business ain’t it Woody?

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DMB we have long wondered among so many why any organization would spend so much for players and soon little for a coach.

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Matt Chernoff on 680 The Fan, said this evening around 730 PM that D12 is being shopped hard right now. Looks like The Magic are starting a rebuild and, immediately.

I would send the whole team to Orlando to pair Josh with Dwight up – then, just add “pink slime” filler like they do at the Wal-Mart Meat Warehouses.

If you don’t know? Pink slime are floor scrappings gathered up, liquefied and, injected back into the meats to add weight and enhance color. Yum … Yum … Yummie.

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agree drmaryb, send them all including the incredible All NBA for D12 in a New York minute!

Build off of the dynamic duo: Josh and D12!

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Slimj you gotta take what is out there . It happens. DH did it, Magic did it, Shaquille did it and it appends every day in business just no reporters there to record it. Woody had a LNG term relationship he would have never changed from his past work with Larry Brown, years bro. Now all of a sudden it comes down to egotiating a contract with his potential boss Dolans who doesn’t like Larry Brown at all and going with who Dolans likes? Now let me think about it? Naw bro.

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Maybe trade Joe “choke Johnson to Memphis for OJ Mayo for starter
Just a thought

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AJ and Slimj for your edification:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-06-04/sports/29636272_1_knicks-fans-isiah-thomas-james-dolan

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Y’all who think that Dwight would even think about signing up with your lame-ass organization are just fools wasting your time on a fantasy. He ain’t walkin’ through that door. Never. He’s dumb, but he ain’t that dumb. He’s goin’ to Brooklyn, if not LA, where all the cash he’ll make off the court will dwarf whatever he does on the court. The ATL is podunk to Dwight.

But y’all just keep on dreamin’ LOL. It truly makes me laugh out loud to read your blog and see all the angst over trying to get Dwight. It’s so laughable, that it’s really not funny, it’s pitiful. And none of you seem to see it. Rave on, you ignorant fools. But he ain’t comin’.

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If you are a Hawks fan, you should not have to put one player down to lift up another player. I like Josh, and I like Al. But I am a Hawks fan first and foremost. Hopefully the ASG can find a trade to improve the Hawks.

That being said, I don’t blame Josh for his feelings towards the ASG. They have done nothing to show they are worthy of a long term commitment, and if I was him, I would not sign an extension.

It will be telling if there are no reports of the ASG wanting offer him an extension.

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You have to offer ORL more than anyone else and even if its for 1 year.

It has to trump the Melo deal the Nuggets got and it has to be one that no other team would consider matching.

We have more pieces to offer than the Nets, that’s for sure.

But if I’m Orlando, I’m asking to see how many #1s a team will give me.
3 + good talent could do the trick. If that’s the case, we can’t trade this year’s #1 because of dumb Sund and his Hinrich infatuation.

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If the Hawks dont resign Ivan, I hope they will go after Reggie Evans. He has his limitations on offense, but he gives max effort, and will go after every rebound.

DMB,

It pains me to say it, but I think ASG will bring all the core players back, and sign mostly vet min players to round out the team. Gearon will say injuries are what derailed our season.

And if Sund decides to leave, I think they will promote Pendergraft from within.

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Hey doc, do you realize this maybe one of the most important weekends in Hawks History?

Why you ask? Rick Sund will decide over his grill whether he stays on board as acting GM or catch Greyhound…. We Hawks fans are holding our breath with anticipation! lol!

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[if]^^^

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Is it possible for Joe to renew his contract and give The Boyzs upstairs some wiggle room to help him,JJ,win before time is over for this group.Joe must be willing to by into the fact that he ain’t The Man,but a part of something that could be good,ala The Celts.As Sugar Ray said,Sund put together a heck of a supporting cast that injuries to Zaza,Holford,and Coach Drew refused to use as season wore on.I really liked this Team when they broke camp.I hope Joe wake up and see what can be before it is too late!Oh yeah,if Josh don’t want to extend,trade him before we end up like Dwight’s Team!Go Hawks and we were so close this year.

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Slimj just keeping it real, no agenda beyond that. These guys believe in their agents more so than their wives if they are smart enough to realize it is a barracuda world they live in. Just because Woody is a coach doesn’t make him smarter unless he knows which card to play to get ahead. Woody was smart enough to survive BK for a few dollars more, now he dumps his long lived companion agent to get a job with Dolan and says uh no the CAA relationship to Dolan had nothing to do about it. After trying to play the card he played with LD, don’t fly in my book slimj just don’t. again agents and these guys go way back as they have to have a real trust beyond marriage and that is where I differ to AJ.

It isn’t about the coaches who come and go and the guys they play with who do the same and it certainly doesnt come with the gm’s and owners as that harkerns back to the dark ages where these guys had no recourse except to follow. Woody went where he knew his bread was buttered and for him to say otherwise is ludicrous and I’ll call him on it especially how he tried to play mind games before and after he left. Ok I’ll say it, jeff was one of his victims with the mind games among others including Zaza.

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Loyalty in Check!

The words loyalty and agents should never be used in the same sentence. Your agent is not a personal relationship, it is a business relationship. An agent, is essence is a lawyer. Sports Agents are Sports Agents for one reason – Get Money! They can buy friends.

Lawyer is synonymous with Lie-awyer. IMO, agents are paid a commission fee to protect their clients interest and, that is where it ends. If you have had the same agent for twenty years, then that is twenty years too long. Surely, you don’t take family vacations with your agent. Nor, do they come to your house for sleep-overs and, Thanksgiving dinners.

Some agents steal their clients money, (see Don King stealing from Mike Tyson) some agents will fk your wife, some agents will smile in your face and, stab you in your back with off color jokes when you’re not around. Some agents will sign you to bad deals because, either way their money comes off the top.

Bottom line is this, I wouldn’t trust a pariah (flesh eating) lawyer, (not for one minute) especially if his lips are moving. If Dolan told me to fire my agent and hire CAA to close a deal? That deal would be closed in a NY second.

Conversely, Mr. Drew was a personal relationship – in that they lied in the same bed, drank from the same cup and ate from the same table. A Ride or Die relationship, that puts you in a fox hole and, that cohort has to have your back at all times – because your livelihood depends on it.

Would you go to war with a back stabber? Now, I’m not saying that is what happened because, quite frankly I wasn’t there and I don’t know. I’m just saying. Hiring a lawyer is the equivalent of shopping for shoes in a Jewish shoe shop. Take your pick, they’re all over priced, if it gives you a corn – give the old shoes to Goodwill and, buy a new pair – get to steppin’.

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MC tells you that ASG overvalues our players. That’s why the odds aren’t high we move any of the core.
I predict Sund will re up and continue his watch as we try to match our 5th seed. We’ll justify it and all involved go home satisfied.

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drmaryb bringing the “16 inch guns”[ reference to the movie battleship] tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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On another note:

Yes, it appears that Hawks management is only interested in competing with their own self, as opposed to competing with the NBA as a whole.

To hear them (management) tell it, you’d think they were sitting in their room playing a video game and celebrating when they scored a little higher than they did last night.

Everything that rolls off of their collective toungue’s supports this opinion.

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Got Milk?

“Is it possible for Joe to renew his contract and give The Boyzs upstairs some wiggle room to help him,JJ,win before time is over for this group.” – jj -
_________

It is not Mr. Johnson’s responsibility to pay his teammates salary. He is employee #2, not the owner of a NBA Franchise.

Based on that flawed logic, I guess Joe should fuel the jets, pay the Arena electric bills, buy scoreboards, purchase team uniforms, pay the ushers and collect all the TV revenue, BRI, hire the GM, coaches and equipment managers too.

Would you go to your job on Monday and, tell your boss, “I need help on the assembly line, can you hire three extra hands and just take it out my pay check?”

If so, YOUR’E HIRED … You Big Dummie!

A better scenario would be to tell the ASKG to: adjust heir incomes, move into smaller houses, eat less steak and caviar, take fewer international vacations, put their brats in public schools, tell the house wives to get a job & pull their own weight, close down that RED Restaurant, turn in those Mercedes for a F-150 or, better yet:

SELL THEIR DAMNED TEAM TO SOMEONE WHO CAN AFFORD TO PUT A WINNING PRODUCT ON THE FKG FLOOR!!!

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“But it’s obvious that the Hawks’ biggest weakness has always been shot selection on offense, and with him as the #1 option this season, the glaring holes grew even more and the team made an earlier exit in the playoffs.”

The Hawks’ biggest weakness is a lack of a true #1 option on offense. Without that, we can talk until we are blue in the face about shot selection and ball movement but they are still not going to score consistently against elite defenses.

I would also say this year’s Celtics are a significantly better team than the 2009 Heat, 2010 Bucks, or 2011 Magic.

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Gee Najeh, ya think?

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No one asking Joe to do anything but renew and stterch it out so The Boyz will have more to offer someone else right now.He will still get his Mony,just paid out over more yrs.I don’t know if he can,but if it is possible,I hope he give it some thought.Hey,this Team ain’t that bad and if not for some bad luck they could possibly be playing now.

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Sleep Tight!

jj … didn’t I already give you a bath, put you in a onsie, read you a night time story and, put you to bed?
What are you still doing up?

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doc, you are scaring me with all these capital letters.

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But Najeh, why is “shot selection” their biggest weakness on offense. Its because they are weak minded, wont take direction from coaching, and fold their tent if faced with a little adversity. That’s a lack of heart that has nothing to do with “shot selection.”

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* typos

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ORDER UP!

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COULDNT AGREE MORE ON DEEWIGHT DR. MARY. I WOULDNT WANT HIM ANYWAY. YOU CANT HAVE HIM ON THE FLLOR IN THE LAST 5 MINUTES OF A GAME ANYWAY, SIMPLY BECAUSE HE CANT MAKE A FREE THROW. OTHER TEAMS JUST FOUL HIM AND PUT HIS BABY A** ON THE LINE. HE’S A COACH KILLER AND MAYBE A FRANCHISE KILLER BECAUSE ORLANDO CAN SAY GOODBYE TO HIM.

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dmb, truth hurts. a lot of these guys had agents before they were married and the agent was their first mature relationship. you also seem to have romanticized love more than these guys ever have. shaq. magic, mj, kobe, puhlese. then there is wilt and the guy with about twenty children? these guys have sex thrown in their faces every night. baby, get real. money and sex drives many of these guys and really the guy who makes it happen is the agent, ala tiger. you know it is true.

najeh got an ipad and i hate it, it has a mind of its own.

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G’dad, lets break down the list of players you said who do not or did not create their own shots or didn’t have the ability to.

Karl Malone – made a living off the pick & -Roll-.-Yes he made a living off of it, but Karl Malone also could abuse a PF on the lower block without the pick and roll. This is why Dennis Rodman’s defense on him was so important in the Finals, because before then Malone had used every one who faced him on the blocks. And that is creating your own shot.
[Thank you Mr Stockton]
Blake Griffin – Blake Griffin has many flaws in his game soon on the offensive end, so I wouldn’t even use that as a positive for Al.
Ray Allen – Notice how Ray Allen could create his own shot quite well in Milwaukee and in Seattle. In fact Ray Allen had some of the best handles when he was younger.
Amare – in PHX (with Nash) – You’re right Amare can’t create his own shot that well. And what has Amare won in the playoffs?
[most anyone who has played with Nash]
KG – in Boston – KG (once again he used to be my favorite player) is unstoppable on the block and at the high post against most PF/C because he was either too quick or too tall for them to contest his shot. In 2000, when practicing for the Olympics, KG beat everyone on the court in one on one full court for practice during preparation. And even now, teams have a hard time guarding KG on the post. He just doesn’t do it often because he doesn’t need to.
Chris Webber – Chris Webber is one of the most underrated bigs who has played during my life. This guy could beat you man on man/ISO when called upon, and often times did. In Washington, he didn’t have Bibby or any other guy to set him up for his fga.

As far as Bill Russell, I never really seen him play. But if I recall, Russell wasn’t the leading scorer on most of his teams either was he? I may be wrong.

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* That would [[[make]]] little or no sense.*

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Someone mentioned Philly’s cap situation earlier. Here’s the deal. They have $49M committed to 5 players, one of which is Lou Williams’s player option. If he stays, and they pick up the team options on Evan Turner and Jrue Holiday, that puts them up to $57M for 8 players. CraigBrackins has a $1.3M team option as well. Do you pick that up? Now, what do you do about free agents Spencer Hawes and Lavoy Allen? They don’t have much flexibility to improve unless Lou opts out, they let Hawes walk, or they trade Iguodala. This is why the media seems pretty sure that Iggy will be back on the trade block this summer.

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I would be willing to trade Josh, ZaZa, and our 23rd pick for Iguodala, Vucevic, and their 15th pick.

Hawks would be Teague, Johnson, Iguodala, Horford, and Vucevic.
Sixers would be Holiday, Turner, Young, Smith, and Hawes.

This gives the Hawks a better value in the draft, creates a little extra cap space, but most importantly, it balances out the roster. At 15, Hawks should probably look hard at a big man like Meyers Leonard. What would we do as Hawks fans if we actually had two skilled young seven footers on our team (one that can actually put it on the floor and shoot from 3, and one that’s an athletic freak)?

Sixers would have crazy depth up front with Young, Smith, Hawes, Brand, Pachulia, and Allen (for a year at least).

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drmaryb!

I see your A. Nicholson ….. like that pick. but I think I am down w/Jeff Taylor (SF- Vanderbilt) or C Fab Melo (the ‘cuse). It might give us the same lineup flexibility to slide folks around, plus both are probably better known for their defensive work in college. I kinda liked where our defense “appeared” to end up this season and should continue its progression.

A few mocks seem to have some common names projected for us, including the aforementioned three guys, in addition to SF – Moe Harkless (St. Johns) and/or Jeffy Teague’s li’il bro Marquis from national champ Kentucky. The Teague option in those mocks lend me to think some of those dudes were TUI (Typing under the Influence), but maybe I am not seeing their logic n picking him. I can see getting a defensive-minded backup PG to replace Heinrich, but essentially pitting two brothers to compete for starting PG on the same team is kinda …..shady.

Since the draft this year is being held at the home of the Team formerly known as the New Jersey Nets, I might plop down the $15-$30 bucks and make that hour-and-a-haf drive up to the Prudential Center.

MC, if the ajc comes up off a ticket to cover the Hawks draft, holla (@decatur_g)

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Seems like hawks management was right when it come to Josh Childress. Right? We can probably get him back for a buck-fifty.

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Marcus,

Where do you live in Philly or NY since it would only be an hour and a half drive for you?

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Love Conquers All Things!

“you also seem to have romanticized love more than these guys ever have. shaq. magic, mj, kobe, puhlese. then there is wilt and the guy with about twenty children? these guys have sex thrown in their faces every night.” – doc -
____________

Love is one of only 9 human characteristics that bears the fruitage of the spirit. And, the greatest of them all is – LOVE.

doc, I am not germane to that which you speak of. I just choose to look those issues and facts that you truthfully put out there for what it really is. A man that loves his wife more than their own bodies and, to the exclusion of all others is a sanctified man – and, would never behave so poorly (imo).

Those guys you mentioned, have some serious character issues and, need some serious help and assistance. Most women do romanticize love – and, that’s the way our minds and hearts were created and, why we are “the nurturers of mankind.”

doc, help me out here, I’m trying to elevate the conversation. lol

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Oder Up!

My Buddy … wassup honey? I was the cafeteria lady wearing fish nets last night. I was serving crow cooked in hot fish grease for $1.99 per plate. I just hope all my customers dined sufficiently.

Click on this link & see Cedric the Entertainer playing The Cafeteria Lady – (empty your bladder first).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN249nI26GI

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The Cafeteria Lady!

Here is another clip of Cedric the Entertainer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiDO76h2Ivs&feature=related

Classic and Funny

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Cedric The Entertainer Presents- cafeteria lady at school

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp1wJTXTS6I&feature=related

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FIRE LD

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http://articles.boston.com/2012-05-25/sports/31852785_1_new-york-knicks-coach-mike-woodson-james-dolan

“We thought he was the right guy for this team at this time. Obviously, there’s some great coaches out there that had we opened up the search would have been called, mainly Phil Jackson, who’s the most successful coach in the NBA history, but we felt Woody was our guy and he showed it during the season and our discussions after the season.’’

Karma is a Mutha. LD bout to get canned and Woody get one of the best jobs in the league.

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Maybe Woody can hire LD as an assistant.Not, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. LOL!!

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“How does it feel to be a fat bride – left at the alter? Sour Grapes? Where is the Majik now – MajikMan? Po Dunk Atlantans have a lot more to choose from than Disney Land, nobody goes to that 1970’s Amusement Park anymore.”

“Get Back – Jack! You just got served.”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I would only be “served” if I were moaning and b!tching about Dwight leaving. By now I don’t care. He gave us some good seasons, but after the last years BS, I’m actually very happy to see him go. I just want to get decent value in return. Thank God Otis Smith is gone, and now we’ll hopefully get someone who knows asset management.

If that is sour grapes, how come it don’t taste bitter? Our bitter was all last year. Now we just see light at the end of the tunnel (perhaps an oncoming train?).

But my point in last night’s post was to LOL @ all the fools in Atlanta who even think for a moment that Dwight would come back there. Dream on fools, it’s just a fantasy. I’m amazed by just how many of you actually think that could happen. Are y’all that dumb in the ATL? Or just fooling yourselves over and over?

And, BTW, it was Dwight who thinks the ATL is podunk, not me. I always have a good time there. But I’m not looking for marketing deals, and he is. So Brooklyn, or LA.

Good luck with your team. But give the fantasies about Dwight a rest. It ain’t happening.

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LD

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The Hawks averaged 82.2ppg in six playoff games this [2012] postseason. Last night, the [Atlanta] Dream defeated the [New York] Liberty, 100-74. The Dream scored 100 points in 40 minutes. In six postseason games, the Hawks without Jamal Crawford had its highest scoring game in Game 5 [87 points] and failed to score over 80 points in three games [played]. In the previous postseason [of 2011], the Hawks with Jamal Crawford scored 100 points or more in three playoff games. And some of you bloggers still want to focus on “the Hawks need[ed] to play better defense”? How about focus on “the Hawks need[ed] to play better offense”? This [post] is for all [you] “Jamal Crawford haters.”

100/40 = x/48
40x = 4800
x = 120

The Hawks averaged 82.2ppg [or 82.2 points per 48 minutes] this 2012 postseason while the Dream last night was on pace to score 120 points in 48 minutes against the Liberty. It seems to me that the Hawks this postseason needed another dynamic scorer [Jamal Crawford] to “fill it up” at Philips Arena [(with) pun greatly intended]. [smh]

Hawks’ 2012 postseason offense = deplorable futility
Dream 2012 offense in [its] second regular season game = excellent productivity
http://www.nba.com/hawks/stats/2011/playoffs

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@ Rod fcp

-Smoove is not selfish, he’s just arrogant. He would have u believe the perspective u posted. The other side is: guy w/ most turnovers on team (as PF!!!!!), poor fundamentals ( no box-out, poor p&r d), bad shot selection (more turnovers), and TERRIBLE body language when things aren’t going well. U could also make a case that he’s soft….

Don’t get me wrong Smoove has a lot of talent, but last year he didn’t have that lift that he’s had in previous years. You take the good with the bad with Smoove, and right now, with his value being high bc of the stats he put up, I would NO DOUBT trade him while his value is high.

This would allow us to clear up cap, give Teague an extension, and hopefully get some depth for our bench. Also, another reason to trade him is Zaza proved he is a quality starting center in this league. Move Horford to his natural position at the 4 and u have a much more balanced lineup.

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Scoop, ask Ibaca about that lift that Josh didn’t have last season.

In fact Josh was jumping better this season (until game 2) then he was the last two seasons because he was relatively healthier and much lighter.

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Ray

May 25th, 2012
7:36 pm

@ Sugar Ray

The most damning thing against Horford why are no teams asking for him why instead are they asking for Josh Smith?

Apparently they know something the ASG, but we the fans do Josh is a game changer If we have all our pieces on the court and they played like they were suppose to be We’d be in a ECF battle with the Heat and we just might win the battle.

Why because look at the Pacers roster and look at ours besides the advantage of Hibbert and David West what else does the Pacers have over us maybe coaching, but we’ll see on that.

***********************

Teams are asking for Josh instead of Al, because Josh is the one whose contract is about to expire next year. When Al’s deal was coming up, there were numerous teams interested in him, which led to the Hawks locking him up before the start of last season.

Don’t get it twisted. More coaches absolutely LOVE Al Horford, than anyone else on this roster. Even if people think that Josh or JJ are more talented, the coaches around the league would rather have Al than anybody.

But the Hawks JUST re-signed Al, so it is assumed that he is NOT on the trading block.

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DMB,

Draft express has Fab Melo (from Syracuse) going 28th to OKC, and draft net has him going 24th to Cleveland. I would take a chance on him at #23. He is a 7’,250 lbs Center from Brazil, and Zaza will be a FA after next season.

Who knows, maybe we can convince Nene (his fellow Brazilian) to take him under his wing in the offseason.

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Ken Strickland
May 25th, 2012
2:14 pm

Well Hawks fans, I’m going to give it a rest. I’ll stop by from time to time, but for now, I’ll leave it to the TRADE FANATICS, NEGATIVE and FANTASY MINDED fans who usually dominate the blog about this time of yr. I know some of you are elated to hear this, because it will allow you to over indulge in your fanatical, negative minded, trade obsessed approach without being subjected to regular doses of reality and common sense from me. I’ll see you during the draft.

Najeh Davenpoop
May 25th, 2012
2:28 pm

“I’ll leave it to the TRADE FANATICS, NEGATIVE and FANTASY MINDED fans”

What about the anal minded fans?
________________________

And what about the egotistical fan that thinks he’s the only one who can provide “regular doses of reality and common sense”?

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“And what about the egotistical fan that thinks he’s the only one who can provide “regular doses of reality and common sense”?”

Ummm, DawgNole, I don’t think Ken claimed that he was “the only one”, now, did he?

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Yet another uninformed, ignorant “fan”, who knows nothing of lease agreements, lol.

An endless parade of inanity.

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doc & Mary Ellen

1st
doc, I see your point [re; agents]
However, my points concerning loyalty from earlier topics
have proven that even with agents, players, [these days]
much like marriage [vows] do not understand the meaning
of words such as:
loyalty, commitment, team, sharing, trust, etc.

Yes, these are words that can be used with an agent,
a spouse, a teammate, a coach, imagine that !

Yes again, it is a societal issue.
These are not just words but character traits;
not hereditary, but learned in most part [hopefully]
by loving nurturing parents and a strong father.
[The way God intended]
`Though, sadly a family unit is not always in place,
believe me I understand.
I`ll accept no excuses from the youngsters
as I came from a broken home, raised by a single mom.
Yet I do feel empathy for the children of this generation.

This is where Teachers, Coaches, Ministers, Big Brothers,
Mentors, yea even Agents come into play.

This is where folks in leadership cannot drop the ball
and become sefish therefore prostitute these youngsters
for the almighty $.

On to Mary Ellen -&- remaining on topic:

Yes;
One lady, 40 years and counting. [plus two for courting]

I took a vow. It meant something.

I coached HS – mentored youngsters – my ministry.
I gave back what was given to me.
Coaches [and Ward cleaver] were my surrogate fathers.

Plus, I gave up a collegiate coaching career to be a
” stay at home Dad ” … for my children.
[3 biological, 1 adopted]

I had a hard time figuring out how to love God.
I didn`t understand how to love a father ?
I had faith … 0`plenty … enough to share.
Finally it dawned on me.
God is Love – to love God, just Love.
Love others.
Show your love;
by loving your wife, your children,family, friends,
strangers, poor people, your enemies, [that`s hard]
people who hate you [not really that hard], dirty folks,
people who look different, people who dress different,
people who have a different pigmentation [easiest],
and even people from up north, to which I`ve discovered
people from New Jersey are really nice.
Love God simply by Loving … -Grandad-

Sincerely,
G-dad

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The absolute best deal we could get for Josh
is multiple picks in this [2012] draft.

If we picked up a serviceable player or two to boot = great.

Prime Targets:
*Moe Harkless = wing defender [2 or 3]
*Andrew Nicholson = best post moves in draft
*Kevin Murphy = equal to John Jenkins as a shooter
*Scott Machado = led nation in asst; pg
*Eric Griffin;
= someone wanted to know who is this yrs Kenneth Faried ?
_____________________________________________

We Do Not Want Fab Melo !!! = Hasheem Thabeet except worse !!!
____________________________________________

To get these players:
Atl would have to acquire one additional 1st rounder
above the one we already have.
Also;
acquire Cleveland`s two high 2nd round picks,
while keeping our current 2nd rounder *[and or 1st rounder]
____________________________________________

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My wish is for a three team trade where we acquire
both of Hoston`s 1st round picks
& both of Cleveland`s 2nd round picks.

I have worked it on trade machine w/o the picks of course.

It could be done;
only not by the lethargic, apathetic, indifferent, idle, passive
-Mr Sund-

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Sautee

You know me

I`m a talent hawk [no pun]
-don`t spoil Christmas-

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Sugar Ray arguably had the best series of FACTUAL posts this blog has seen all year. And that graph from hickory-high.com on the Hawks offense is absolutely amazing.

The 5 most used plays by the Hawks

1) Josh Smith spot-up jumper . . . which most everyone who watches the Hawks believe that defenses actually leave Josh open ON PURPOSE, just so he can take that shot. It speaks volumes that this is the ONLY type of possession used more by the Hawks, than it produces points.

2) Josh Smith post up

3) ISO JJ

4) Pick & Roll w/Teague having the ball

5) ISO Josh

This pretty much proves that, contrary to popular opinion, Josh is already the #1 offensive option on this team, not JJ. As was pointed out in that article, almost 30% of the Hawks possessions were used by Josh. That’s superstar-like usage, with pedestrian efficiency.

Top 5 least producing point possessions:

1) ISO JOSH . . . usually in the post, but it probably counts for those times he brings the ball up the court by himself, and tries to make a scoring play on his own. He gets fouled on some of these possessions, but doesn’t get a call to get to the FT line.

2) Pick & Roll w/JJ as ballhandler . . . this is usually the notorious JJ – Jeff combo setting screens for each other. It’s also a result of a big man coming to try to screen for JJ so he can go around it and get into the lane. This is a by-product of ISO JOE, and not an attempt to run a true pick and roll. The big man never rolls, he pops for a jump shot opportunity if JJ gets in trouble.

3) ISO TEAGUE . . . not used very often, but that doesn’t surprise me that his point per possession was low.

4) Josh Spot-up jumper . . self-explanatory as to why the point per possession is low

5) Josh Post-up . . . like with ISO JOSH, he gets fouled sometimes in the post, but isn’t called. But his post game, while improved, is still average, and isn’t something that is highly efficient.

**********************

What people who blindly support Josh doesn’t understand, is that there is a reason why there is a negative national perception about him. And that reason normally gets exposed when we play national TV games. That’s normally when we see all of the long jumpshots, the excessive crying to the refs, and the careless turnovers. He plays hard, but he simply tries to do too much to the detriment to the team at times.

That’s why I say one of Josh or JJ has to go. We can’t have them taking the same type of shots, and us get to the next level. People call for reducing JJ’s role offensively, but JJ is still a far more efficient scorer than Josh is. So if we’re going to get 30% usage from Josh, we need people who can rebound his missed shots.

A great series of posts by Sugar Ray yesterday. But as usual, people were making excuses as to why Josh are doing the things that he does, instead of placing blame squarely on himself.

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gdad, my point is you are either loyal all the time and expect it of yourself and others or you arent. if you arent, then dont get hurt, mad or upset if it comes back at you. look, i dont begrudge him anything, except dont try to play it what it isnt when it is, that is the defintion of hypocrite. you cant choose when you get to love if you are truly loving mankind and declare it, be good to your wife and shame her in public, and finally loyal to your friends and associates, etc. depending on the situation at hand and not do it in every opportunity and why woody has come under scrutiny.

from ny times:

“Before negotiating the deal, in a move that created a minor stir, Woodson terminated his longtime agents, Joe and Keith Glass, and hired Terry Prince of Creative Artists Agency. The Glasses indicated that Dolan ordered Woodson to make the switch, presumably because they also represent Larry Brown, whom Dolan fired in 2006.

Woodson, addressing the matter for the first time, said: “I elected to move on. Mr. Dolan had nothing to do with me making this decision.”

C.A.A. has been increasing its influence at the Garden for the last year. Its agents also represent Anthony, Smith and two key members of the front office, Mark Warkentien and Allan Houston.

The agency also does extensive business with the Garden in the marketing and entertainment areas.

“I chose C.A.A. because I just thought that they would be the best for me,” Woodson said.”

anybody see it was about the “me” and not about the loyalty of years of service, past services or relationships. me and my family is my guess is what he meant, which is fine and what ld did. who is not to say woody wasnt undercutting d’antoni’s efforts as they were like oil and water maybe reporting back. he was brought in to to do the defense and was there by his indiana connection with isiah thomas who under the table is said to have a life time agreement with dolan?

my thought is when woody lost his job then all was fair, also woody had gotten in the way of ld before so it served him right. folks tend to forget that point as well. maybe now that woody has got the job of most people’s dream he can drop it and act like a man.

the money these guys get is based on who can sell them best and that is why i say the most important thing going is their agent who sometimes has a closer relationship to them than their wives as far as knowing what is truly going on in their minds. wives that are smart accept it as well. cpa’s are pretty important as well and can come well paid if they are good. just ask the one that took care of ted’s money,who owns thousands of acres of land in se ga. please dont try to paint it as a casual relationship as aj did was my point missed by many. gdad agreed it is a new era and one that is more it is what you can do for me today or what i can get today rather than anything else. not too many tim’s and pops out there. you got to go read the article from si on timmy. pops and him spent about three or more days just swimming around in the ocean where tim is from talking life before he got drafted and that was the start of their powerful union. bliss.

as an aside, it also seems this blog will be forever over run by guys still smelling the jocks of the guys they have man crushes on in spite of realizing the basg was never going to offer their guys, in jamal and woody, fair market value blog opinions otherwise or not. be pleased that they were able to get it somwhere else because it was never in the cards here. would woody have stayed at 1 mil a year and taken a 3 mil pay cut? naw, he probably went to them thinking he should get a raise. really in woody’s last two years and in ld’s first two years they have about performed the same winning percentage, you could throw a blanket over their records figuratively speaking and it would have been the same victory wise. would you have rather spent 2 mil over two years for the same number of victories and same outcome or 8 mil which is what woody got then and now i might add? the basg who doesnt have msg garden money behind it has to say they will take the save the 6 mil and spend for something else.

look reality, the basg are playing it very close when it comes to cash flow and it went beyond the scoreboards. the last few games of the year had them running out of premium beers several times and ice cream and the vendors saying these guys dont care as they are already on vacation and arent ordering more. yup, game five at the phillips. they werent expecting our guys to win and had closed down essentially for the summer. go figure.

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O”Brien

May 26th, 2012
1:02 pm

Ra’mon,

From MC’s blog (in case you missed it).

I looked at Larry Coon’s CBA FAQ and could see no reason why Smith is not eligible for an extension. It’s been at least three years since he signed the deal, it’s never been renegotiated and it doesn’t include an opt-in. I checked with Coon and he confirmed the Hawks can extend Smith’s deal (they actually have been able to do so since August)..

Unless you can find a better source than Larry Coon, I think Josh is wrong in thinking he cant sign an extension.

***********************

MC needs to ask that question about a possible Josh extension, to Sund or Pendergraph. Just ask a simple question:

“Do the Hawks have the ability to offer Josh Smith an extension during the summer?”

If MC has already asked Larry Coon this question, and he said that they could, then that’s about as good of a source ( outside of a GM ) that you can get.

As for the other frequently said thing on here . . . JJ needs to renegotiate his contract . . this is what Larry Coon says about that when it relates to the current CBA:

59. Can existing contracts be renegotiated?

A contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension, or previous renegotiation (if the previous negotiation increased any season’s salary by more than 4.5%). Contracts for fewer than four seasons cannot be renegotiated. A contract cannot be renegotiated between March 1 and June 30 of any year.

Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap (and cannot increase the player’s salary beyond the maximum salary). A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase — players can’t take a “pay cut” in order to create more cap room for the team.

If the player agrees to waive a portion of his trade bonus in order to facilitate a trade (see question number 96), his contract may not be renegotiated for six months following the trade.

Every category of compensation (base salary, likely bonuses, and unlikely bonuses) that are increased in the renegotiated season must also increase in all subsequent seasons of the contract. Raises (and decreases) in subsequent seasons are limited to 7.5% of the salary in the first renegotiated season.

A renegotiated contract can be extended simultaneously (see question number 58). If a player’s contract is extended and renegotiated simultaneously in this manner, his salary may not decrease by more than 40% from the last season before the extension (after it is renegotiated) to the first season of the extension. For example, if the salary in the last season of a contract is renegotiated to $10 million and the contract is simultaneously extended, the salary in the first season of the extension cannot be less than $6 million.

Other rules for renegotiations:

- A signing bonus cannot accompany a renegotiation unless the contract is extended simultaneously (see question number 58).

- A rookie scale contract (see question number 48) cannot be renegotiated.

- A contract cannot be renegotiated in conjunction with a trade.

**************

So when it comes to JJ, the Hawks could renegotiate his contract . .

- after the completion of his 3rd year in the deal ( which occurs next summer )
- ONLY if we’re under the salary cap ( which we’re nowhere near )

And he can’t take a pay cut.

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Trade Josh to LAL for Gasol..move Al to 4, JJ to 3, draft Terrance Ross at SG, and Hawks become a very interesting team…..

Bench ZaZa, MARVIN, Ivan, Willie Green, Prago….

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doc

You went so far past me that I got lost.

My reference was mainly about players and
their relationships to their agents.
A simple remark you made to Mary Ellen
a couple of days ago, re;
“a player is with his agent longer than his teammates or his coach”
-paraphrase-

Then this AM;
M`Ellen started talkin` about some other perceptions and principles,
love in particular, so I spewed forth some Grandadism.

I`m with you all the way … I think ? … yeah.

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Hawks news!! Looking to sign shooter. Gladyr, former pick.

http://www.solobasket.com/contenidos/sergiy/gladyr/objetivo/atlanta/hawks/proxima/campana/c-29706.html

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northcyde, long time, no see (on Hawks ESPN board)…..sure wish you were there, no real hawks fans there…(just critics)…

You apparently concur with my thoughts of moving JJ moving to SF full-time?

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” Most coaches would rather have a guy who plays to his strengths, instead of someone is clearly not playing the right way (taking a lot of bad shots) and let it hurt the team.”
You just described Al Horford the last half of 2010 until his reemergence in game 5 of this year’s 1st round… Al was an enigma during period…

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“3) ISO TEAGUE . . . not used very often, but that doesn’t surprise me that his point per possession was low.”

I am pretty sure I read recently that Teague is one of the top 40 players in the entire league in iso situations. I don’t know where to confirm this, but I am pretty sure Iso-Teague isn’t one of the worst plays this team has in its arsenal.

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gdad, i guess you didnt read the beginning of the thread how the issue of loyalty and to whom it was relevant started. aj felt they jumped from agent to agent and i said no some if not all of htese guys are closer to theri agents than their wives as that is where the bread is buttered. then dmb took exception i took exception to that giving certain examples(these guys arent choir boys ya know right down to kemp and his many children ), then you came along with her and so on and so on as a blog should. heh heh.

important to not miss the article on tim in a recent sports illustrated. i posted it on another blog. well worth digging out. he doesnt like kg and he does like pops and he hates interviews much preferring to spend it with his wife and two children, heh heh breaking the mold.

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The top tier perimeter players with be scooped up by the time we pick. Boston has back to back picks, they will get some decent talent.

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“Read this article first, posted by Sugar Ray yesterday and highlighted on Hoopinion. Then find the Hawks graph and click on it. It tells you all you need to know about this team in the half court offense.”

I see that graph is talking about something different from what I posted. Iso-Teague is not a good play compared to other possible plays for the Hawks, but Teague is still the 76th ranked iso player in the league according to Synergy, which would put him in at least the top 3rd of the league in isolation. Teague is better than the league average of 0.78 isolation points per possession. Even Josh is right at the league average at 0.78 isolation points per possession, and if there was a way to break that down between face up and back-to-the-basket possessions, Josh’s back-to-the-basket iso points per possession would probably be much higher than that.

What this really means is that isolation in general is a bad play, as we all should know by now.

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SUGAR RAY U R OUT OF YOUR MINE

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It’s time we make JJ our amenstiy playe for 2012 and save a ton of cap.
17pts per game 6-25 shooting is not worth it

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“He did well, alittle inefficient”

That’s being kind. Again, I give him credit for stepping up, specifically on the boards finally… but we’re still not talking about numbers that make him untouchable. This still boils down to him wanting out and the Hawks maximizing what they can get for him.

I’m positive he has a better shot reaching his potential if he gets with a GREAT offensive minded coach with a great system in place — the Hawks have neither of those so they have to make a move now, but like MC said, they tend to overvalue players and wait until it’s too late to do the right thing. You don’t want to overpay to keep guys who want out (like you did with Joe) and you REALLY don’t want to lose good players for nothing (like Toronto with Bosh).

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Again, the final 33 games of the season when he started to get consistent 20 field goal attempts a game. His significant increase in free throw percentage helped out tremendously as well. 71% the latest 33 games opposed to 55.5% the first 33 games.

For March he avg. 24 and 10 – 4.5 assists – 1.5 blocks and steals.
For April he avg. 18.7 and 8.8 – 3.8 assists – 1.3 blocks and 1 steal.

It’s no doubt in my mind he will come into next season on a tear. He knows he’s on the cusp of breaking out. It wouldn’t be too bad to wait until the trade deadline especially if he makes the all star team.

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“Flip the Script” ^^^^^^

Could All Whatever hold it down like that with Josh down for 3 months? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Seems silly to ask that kind of question since we have never seen it. I do believe you all are overrating Josh’s performance this past season and underrating how important those shooters and depth were.

Al is by far more efficient player, that’s a fact. Josh wants out, that’s a fact. Everything after that is opinion, and I have yet to see any Josh’s fans hold him responsible for how he kills this offense.

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“Again, the final 33 games of the season when he started to get consistent 20 field goal attempts a game.”

Those numbers look impressive until you look at how he got them:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=smithjo03&match=single&year_id=2012&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=34&game_num_max=66&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q1=Y&q2=Y&q3=Y&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

Shot 46% overall, and 25% on 3s. The numbers would look better if he took better shots, but as stated earlier, he still took the same ISOs and spot ups that hurt the Hawks offense. There was also a point when he whiend about not getting enough shots when he was the #1 option.

He had a 28% Usage Rate (pct of team’s possession used by a player), which means he was getting the ball as much as any star would, so where is the responsibility for taking all of those terrible shots that ended up costing the Hawks games? He’s like a bigger version of Monta Ellis on offense.

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Also, Horford has never had a usage rate higher than 20% in his career… Josh, Joe and even Jamal were always higher (meaning, they got more opportunities), even though each of those three players are less efficient than Al on offense.

The Hawks have also traditionally ranked near the bottom in pace (number of possessions for each team in a game), which means they play WAY too slow and using too much of the clock in boring ISO instead of running… which is doubling down on stupidity for any team that has their most inefficient players taking the most shots.

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From MC’s article on ajc.com;

The blot on Smith’s season was his poor offensive efficiency. He was a bigger part of Atlanta’s offense than he had been in his career and had his least efficient scoring season as his game continued to migrate to the perimeter.

Hawks coach Larry Drew said he thinks Smith played closer to the basket early in the season before shifting more outside. He said Smith’s sore knee contributed to that development..

I think lack of a quality HC also contributed to that development. However, Josh takes most of the blame (imo). He needs to play to his strengths, and not try to do too much.

“As the season wore on, particularly when he started experiencing some injury, I thought he moved out on the floor a little bit with not taking as much of a banging,” Drew said. “When you’ve got a bad knee and you are banging down there, every jolt you get, you feel it..

If LD said this about Al, Ra’mon and others would quickly use the opportunity to criticize Al again. .

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The Sixers are just gutty. Scratching and clawing for everything. Making this game as ugly as possible and trying to score quickly when they play great defense. I hope they pull this out.

Iggy looking like a superstar this quarter.

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Josh is very turnover prone… did you forget how Game 5 ended? And who saved them from being bounced at home?

With Josh and Joe getting the most shots this season, the Hawks offense was terrible. 16th in offensive rating, 22nd in pace, 17th in pts per game.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012.html#misc::10

Those are the facts. I mean, you guys can ignore them all you want, but the bottom line is the Hawks offense IS what holds them back year after year, and it seems like you guys can’t let go of Josh. Maybe you all prefer his watching ISOs and missed missed dunks more than winning a championship. Unless they feature more efficient players such as Horford more often, it will be more of the same. Simple as that.

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“I think lack of a quality HC also contributed to that development. However, Josh takes most of the blame (imo). He needs to play to his strengths, and not try to do too much.”

This is true, coaching plays a part in it, but can anyone name the #1 option type players who significantly improved their shooting after their prime? Jason Kidd is one, but he never wanted to be “the man” on any offense. Who else?

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slimjr, everything you just said about tricky one hand dribbles describes Josh. He has no handle, most people in here would probably say Al has the better handle actually. Teague’s progression makes life better for BOTH Al and Josh, difference is Al can make those open jumpers, whereas Josh relies on speed which won’t be around forever.

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O’Brien . . that stat on Josh’s mid-range attempts is an unacceptable number. If you add the playoffs, that number jumps to 430 attempts. If you add the 3 point attempts, he took 543 shots from 16+ feet. For comparison, Joe Johnson took 604 shots from 16+ feet

JJ shot 38.6% from that range

Josh shot 33.8% from that range

But people give him a pass on that, even the dang coach. It’s unacceptable to me. There’s no way this team can ever reach its potential, with both of those guys taking the same type of shots. May as well move Josh to SF, and trade JJ for a good rebounding PF, if Josh is going to take those type of shots.

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Yes a great pt. guard changes everything{See Lin in New York}..

Woody should win between 57-65 games next season!!

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“If Josh had played four years of college ball, he would have just finished his 4th season in the NBA? Fascinating”

Hypotheticals won’t work. If Josh played college ball, he likely wouldn’t take all of those bad shots. But that’s something we’ll never know. He’s a flawed player on offense and his bad shot selection hurts the offense in the regular season and the playoffs.

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Sugar Ray, you keep this up Big Al is going to buy you season tickets to sit behind him….LOL!!!

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You know, the Knicks are a great exmaple of what I’m talking about actually.

Melo and Amare went down at seperate times, but the team didn’t miss a beat. I think we’d all agree both of them are good players. Still, the Knicks didn’t start losing until Lin went down. Bottom line, a decent ballhandler can keep the ship afloat. Everyone should know that. But once the high usage/inefficient players start going for their own and taking bad shots, you get embarrassed by good teams.

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I said that to give credit to Teague, who played all 66 games this year. If he went down, they would have lost many more games, maybe even missed the playoffs.

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If Al’susage increases, I think his efficiency will decrease, one reason being he still needs to work on creating his own shot.

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“Sugar Ray, you keep this up Big Al is going to buy you season tickets to sit behind him….LOL!!!”

I could say the same thing for you if Josh is shipped out. You seem to care more about his wittle feelings and enabling his dumb decisions than actually making this team a contender haha. I’m guessing you will desert the Hawks and be cheering him on wherever he goes.

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If Rondo ever develops a consistent jump shot, he will be close to unguardable (imo).

Even if they lose, Philly had a good run, pushing it to a game7, despite not having home court advantage (we lost in 6).

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The Sixers are about to lose to the Celtics for the same reason the Hawks lost: Bad shot selection.

PHI and ATL have talent, but their best players got selfish and their coaches stuck by bad role players. Same thing happened to the Pacers.

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Spurs will crush the men in Green…

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:If Al’s usage increases, I think his efficiency will decrease, one reason being he still needs to work on creating his own shot”

Kinda of a ridiculus statement. Creating your shot means nothing if you take bad shots. Monta Ellis and Jamal Crawford can create their own shots, but I’ll take someone like Steve Novak or Tyson Chandler over both of them. I mean, I can prove that Josh offense gets worse. I have also shown that Al’s numbers get better over the course of a game. The Hawks proved Josh can’t get them out of the first round as the guy getting the most shots, and their offense is the reason.

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Hey OB, now we are silly and rediculus..Is this guy related to the “screamer” [KS better known as kill shot not the Kimmer straying]?

OB, he’s only got one shot, so his assist rate will go up cause if you watch closely he gives it up rather quickly when is set shot is guarded by #4’s….The rock becomes a hot potatoe in his hands like his buddy Marvin!

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Rick Bucher of ESPN is reporting that Marvin Williams has been traded to the Baghdad Camel Jockeys for 5 packs of smokes.

As for Josh, he’ll never admit it(and maybe he doesn’t even realize it, but he wouldn’t fit in on a championship caliber team. He wouldn’t be able to defer to the leaders of the team and the coaches wouldn’t tolerate his undisciplined play. Can you imagine Greg Popovich dealing with Josh? It would never happen because a team like the Spurs wouldn’t touch Josh with a 10 foot pole. He’ll likely end up somewhere like Toronto or Milwaukee or some other place where he can be one of the better individual players on a team that isn’t taken seriously by the leagues elite teams. In other words, it’ll be more of the same…except the new team and city won’t be nearly as tolerant as his hometown team and city.

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Slimjr,

I know you arent a big fan of AL, but who exactly overrates him?He is what he is. Josh is more talented but do you think say for example Josh moves on goes to another team with a better coach, are we going to have this convo about Josh what he should and should not be doing with the ball?

Al has his limitations but if you did a poll on this blog about who they like better or who is a better player it will be overwhelmingly Josh so again who exactly is overrating Horford?

Al knows what he can and cannot do. He isnt a great player and he has faults. He is a Buck Williams type of player. Can get some boards and can score from the outside. Not a great post up player or great off the dribble. Josh sometimes has problems with that concept about what he should and should not do. That is really difference between the two players. Josh and Al have different skill sets. It would be one thing if they had similar games but they do, so I dont get when people compare the two players.

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Sugar Ray throwing sugar! Big Al loves ya man! Hehehehe..

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Nice comparo to Buck Bjerry!

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Both players can get you 18-10 every game… but one won’t need 6 more shots to do it haha

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“Monta Ellis and Jamal Crawford can create their own shots, but I’ll take someone like Steve Novak or Tyson Chandler over both of them.”

Steve Novak and Tyson Chandler are two totally different types of players. If you would tale Steve Novak over Monte Ellis or Jamal Crawford, I can assure you that basketball scouting or being a general manager of a basketball organization is not in your future. SMH

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Rusty, in my OPINION Larry cost them the Series…Game two he just got out coached..Win that game and they had a over 82% chance to win the Series..

But Philly would have swept them in the next round so its just as well they didn’t advance and be embarrassed again…

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“…Monta Ellis and Jamal Crawford can create their own shots, but I’ll take someone like Steve Novak or Tyson Chandler over both of them…” – Sugar Ray

That depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re looking for a player that provides rim protection and interior post defense, then, yeah, you should take Tyson Chandler over Monta Ellis, Jamal Crawford and Steve Novak. But if you’re looking for a player that will give you explosive and clutch scoring perhaps off the bench and a good-to-excellent one-on-one player that create a shot for himself or someone else especially during “crunch” time, then you should take Monta Ellis or Jamal Crawford. Other than spot-up shooting, Novak really gives you very little. If Novak’s jumper is off, then what good is he [Novak] on the court?

I don’t know any [known] “clutch” players that shoot [or have shot] 50+% or even 40+% from the field when shooting game-tying or game-winning shots over a [considerably lengthy NBA] career. If I’m wrong, Sugar Ray aka AJC Hawks Blog “stat boy,” please provide those statistics to refute what I’m saying.

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@Sugar Ray

Correction: But if you’re looking for a player that will give you explosive and clutch scoring perhaps off the bench and a good-to-excellent one-on-one player that [can*] create a shot for himself or someone else especially during “crunch” time, then you should take Monta Ellis or Jamal Crawford.

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6′9″ two guard Lamb!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdJ8HXp-3SY&feature=related

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Slimjr

Lamb is 6-5

Where did you get 6-9 ?

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oops thanks Grandad….

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Rusty

I agree with you.
Joe stops the offense.

Where you and I differ, is, LD does not run Iso
as much as you think.
It begins as a play or motion or whatever;
then it devolves into Iso-mish~mash.

Even when Joe runs pick and roll,
he never looks for the slip [cutter] or [roll].

Josh Isos are more often than not;
along the baseline or at the high-post
which;
is completely different from Iso-Joe.

Many, many times Joe catches the ball in the post area,
[such as Josh] or along the baseline,
then dribbles back out and starts over.
What`s the point ?

Joe also does not pass out of double teams.
-rather-
He dribbles out the clock.

I honestly Do Not believe;
LD has designed this into his offense.

LD is Not perfect, neither is he great;
but he is Not the scapegoat for Joe

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Boneheaded strategy – pertaing to LD

Not;
the stategy of double-teaming Joe.

Heck, I would do that too.
He ain`t gonna pass it.

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Slimjr

Like I can type ?

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Trade Josh for as many first rounders as possible.

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LD encourages JJ to play this way as he doesn’t even attempt to stop this crap. At the end of games the hawks often try to give games away as they let JJ handle the offense which usually comes to a dead stop .

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Iso and Josh want to win and I believe with a very respectful, seasoned Head Coach they would make the appropriate changes to their game to help this team advance…

Larry does not get the respect he should get being the head coach because he was their friend 1st. I blame Sund for that hire!

You never hire the assistant of the Head Coach you just let go..You let the whole staff go and bring in fresh blood! GM 101

There’s more to a Head Coaching job than just x’s and o’s? Hmmm..

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Buddy Grizzard
May 25th, 2012
4:16 pm

As I said in my open letter to Josh, I don’t blame him for wanting to leave. Just don’t compare Hawks fans to Celtics fans. Celtics win championships. Hawks get bounced in the first round and call it success.
_________________________

Bingo!

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Don’t compare the hawks to the celts,they are well coached . There movement of the ball is beautiful,everybody is on the same page.

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Grandpa our offense is flawed.I just don’t know how you can’t hold the coach accountable for this.

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High-Sider:

*stategy

shorthand for strategery

straight out of the George Bush Dictionary – unabridged of course

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Rusty

I do hold LD accountable.

When LD is wrong or when he deserves to be chastised.

He is just not wrong in everything he does.
-yes-
He does much to my distaste.

His offensive sets are not one of them.

I think he is a middling coach;
who has overacheived.

I think, perhaps Lester Conner has saved his butt.
Along with Jerry Stackhouse.

Still under the circumstances;
he performed well under any standard you might utilize
in order to evaluate his job performance.
____________________________________________

My biggest problem with replacing LD ?

Yes – there are 5 to 8 names of guys who could do better.
The half-ASSG could not be trusted to hire
one of those 5 to 8 coaches [better] coaches.

So, now we have a guessing game as to;
do we end up with a complete dumb-ass ?
-answer-
Yes; we could do much, much worse, believe me.

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“I mean, you guys can ignore them all you want, but the bottom line is the Hawks offense IS what holds them back year after year, and it seems like you guys can’t let go of Josh.”

Yeah, and the Hawks’ defense IS what makes them a playoff team year after year, and Josh is the reason why.

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“How many guys on the Spurs can create their own shot? Parker, Manu, maybe Duncan. Yet they have the best offense in the league and cruised to the West Finals.”

Yeah, they have two, maybe three future Hall of Fame caliber players who can create shots for themselves and others, including the best PF of all time. That makes a pretty huge difference.

The Sixers shared the ball all season — 10th in the NBA in team assists — and ended up ranked 20th in offensive rating. No shot creators.

Then you have a team like the Knicks FULL oof ISO players who are selfish and can “create their own shot” and they can’t even make their first round series competitive. Some of yall just like the dunks and then you wonder why the team can’t go any further?”

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“Can you imagine Greg Popovich dealing with Josh? It would never happen because a team like the Spurs wouldn’t touch Josh with a 10 foot pole.”

Yeah, because Stephen Jackson is extremely disciplined. Give me a break.

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Here are the eFG% leaders for the remaining playoff teams (limited to players who play significant minutes)

MIA: Mike Miller, Joel Anthony, LeBron James
BOS: Ray Allen, Greg Stiemsma, Avery Bradley
SAS: Boris Diaw, Tiago Splitter, Manu Ginobili
OKC: Nick Collison, James Harden, Kevin Durant

If you went into the Heat coaching meeting and told them that Wade needs to give up shot attempts so Joel Anthony can get the ball more, you would get laughed out of the room, and rightfully so. Same with telling Doc Rivers to get Greg Stiemsma more of Pierce’s looks, telling Popovich to give Splitter more of Duncan’s looks, or telling Scott Brooks to give Nick Collison more of Westbrook’s looks.

Stats are useful to a point, but sometimes you have to put the pocket protector down and watch the game. Efficiency and skill level are not the same thing.

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Last year of Josh with a Hawks uni and we will roll out the same sorry excuse of a head-coach next season.

Hah! Josh never got the benefit of proper coaching and people complain that he makes boneheaded plays.

He came straight out of high-school, never got coached at the college level, has been coached by Woody and LD and people complain about him?

Complain about the ASG.

With Sloan, Josh and the Hawks would flourish next year.

The biggest difference that people see between Al and Josh comes exactly from the fact that Al was inserted in a winning basketball program with a quality coach (Donovan) who molded all his players into team-first guys.

Even the guys who did not make it in the NBA have found their niche (Taurean Green even adopted a new nationality in order to keep his career alive – instead of being a drop out in life, he found a way to be a contributor in a different environment).

Even JJ has suffered from poor coaching throughout his pro career:

- D’Antoni, Woody and LD??

And people are surprised that he does not have a clue on how to maximize his game and constantly falls into the same stupid mistakes against quality opposition?

LACK OF COACHING, DEAD SIMPLE.

Look at what happened in Minny – obviously, Rubio was a factor too – between what they produced under Rambis and what they produced with Adelman.

Coaching is as big deciding factor in the NBA as player talent.

We lost 4-2 against a team (BOS) which is much better coached and that now is in the East finals with virtually only 4 or 5 live bodies and a bunch of gimpy vets.

We were clearly robbed by the refs, but lack of quality coaching made the difference on all those close games.

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Search for all the excuses you want, but the bottom line never changes:

Josh wants out.

Blame the coaches, ASG, the arena food, the uniforms, whatever… the bottom never changes:

Josh wants out.

You want Dwight? That’s great… but guess what? Dwight doesn’t want you. Know what else?

Josh wants out.

There isn’t anything you or I can do to change it. I have my opinion, and you have yours. The fact?

Josh wants out.

So now what are you gonna do? Overpay a guy just to TRY to retain him? Didn’t work the last couple times this team tried it. Might want to manage the finances better. But guess what?

Josh wants out.

So you have a choice. Trade him now or watch him walk for nothing. But keep in mind.

Josh wants out.

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I hear you Ray.
Hawks have to make the trade.
Blockbuster time.
here we go.

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Trade Josh Smith and Marvin Williams to the Lakers for Bynum or Gasol and their 1st round pick.

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Stephen Jackson is a role player for the Spurs(20 minutes or so per game) in the twilight of his career. If Josh played anywhere close to 20 minutes and God forbid was criticized for his decision making(including shot selection) by Popovich, he would whine to the media for a week. Jackson is a veteran who knows his place at this point in his career.

The Hawks have no leaders(Drew, Johnson, Teague – what a joke) or maybe Josh would have figured out how to handle himself on and off the court by now.

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The Age-less Wonder!

“but can anyone name the #1 option type players who significantly improved their shooting after their prime?” – Sugar Ray –
___________

Now Lena Horn, that woman just took her game to a whole ‘notha level. If, you don’t know? You better ask.com.

Dick Clark didn’t start shooting blanks until he lost his stroke, (oops!) I meant – after he had a stroke. Aiight, I know that was bad but, you know drmaryb is gonna’ always keep it real.

Humor aside, here’s my point: no offense to MJ, but he didn’t find his pure, reliable shooting touch until around year 7 or 8 after he got bored with dunking and, tired of losing to the Bad Boys – Pistons.
So, in opinion Josh can certainly go to another gear and, add more stuff to his stuff.

The real question is actually two:

Can he do it here?
Can he do it with a coach like Mr. Drew, (a non-enforcer)?

If, you want to add a third? – Will he and Will he?

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The dumbest player in the NBA a future superstar? Never.

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Does This team win a TITLE…

CP3
JJ
J-Chill
Josh
Zaza

Do you believe that team wins a TITLE with WOODY coaching?….. I DON’T… Also, I am not sure CP3 would be the same player under WOOOOOODY.

Please don’t say, “No, but they would be exciting”

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“Stats are useful to a point, but sometimes you have to put the pocket protector down and watch the game. Efficiency and skill level are not the same thing.”

Cosign.

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High-Sider,

Just because YOU brought up Kirk Hinrich’s four low scoring games, and I contrasted that with Jamal’s four low scoring games (still a bad idea for you to have used that comparison) doesn’t mean at all that KH is my “boy”. It could have been ANY Hawk that you berated for scoring only 22 points in 4 games, while your “boy” JC1 could only score 29 in four games with an additional EIGHT SHOTS PER GAME.

All I did was to jump on the foolish opening that you gave to me. The player you chose to use for the example (in this case Kirk Hinrich) is irrelevant. I wasn’t defending Hinrich, but showing, based on your own words, the futility of Jamal’s final four games as a Hawk.

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If Horford shot 19-20 attempts per game his percentage would go down drastically, it’s no different for any player. Obviously, if a player can get you 50% return on that many attempts he would be a mega star: LBJ and KD.

Horf is a heavy jumpshot taker and teams rarely throw doubles his way. All you have to do is check the numbers from the Bulls and Magic series in 2011. They played him to his left and bodied him.
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3213/seasontype/3/al-horford

If he gets more responsibilities on offense it’ll hurt his game. He’s better off letting others create for him, ideally a pure point guard.

Also, the offense is not tailored for Smith, it’s specifically made for Joe since day one as he “perfected” his Iso skills as the full time point guard.

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This guy is the most talented, clueless, hopeless, unteachable moron I’ve ever seen. Time to call this a bad investment and move on. He can’t seem to realize he is not an outside man. Trade him for a bag of new balls. He refers to himself as “J-Smoove”??? What the hell does that even mean? Body of an All-Star, Brain of a 12 yr old……….

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More from the article;

Weaver is considered one of the league’s elite young executives, rising from a personnel director with the Utah Jazz to the No. 2 spot in Oklahoma City under GM Sam Presti.

Lindsey has been an assistant GM with the Spurs for five years, moving over to work under team president R.C. Buford after spending 11 seasons in the Houston Rockets’ front office. Lindsey has been careful in considering GM opportunities, and pulled out of searches with Minnesota, Phoenix and Toronto that would’ve likely resulted in offers of the general manager title..

I hope Rick decides to retire.

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For the love God, please trade Marvin Williams to Cleveland for hopefully their second 1st round pick or more realistically for the 2nd round pick. If need be sale the pick for cash, Marvin’s performance and contract is restricting the Hawks ability to resign its key players along with retarding the team’s performance.
When Miami acquired Lebron, they dumped their 1st round underachieving weedhead to the Wolves for a 2nd round pick. It was a money dump; the player they drafted has not contirbuted. Again, how many times does this organization have to miss opportunities to cut their loses as it concerns Marvin. First, it was a mistake to resign Marvin over Chills. Chills was clearly the more productive and effective player. In addition, his contract would have much less. Next, Cleveland offered Shaq for Marvin and even if the Shaq experiment had failed. It was an one year deal and we would have dumped Marvin’s contract. Next, Cleveland offered Sessions for Marvin + a 2nd round pick and the Hawks turned down the deal. Finally, Cleveland continues express interest in Marvin and they have a ton of cap space.
Whatever deal which does not bring back salary, the Hawks should make similiar to Miami.
With Marvin’s contract gone, resigning of Josh, Ivan, and a legit FA SF become realistic possibility!

Signed concerned and troubled fan!

Go Hawks!

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Bulls Elevate Phil Jackson to Head Coach AP
Published: July 11, 1989

Phil Jackson, the top assistant to Doug Collins, was named head coach of the Chicago Bulls today, three years after he was passed over when the job was given to Collins.

SlimJr – Good thing the Bulls weren’t following your GM101 philosophy!!

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Dept. Of Unintended Irony
May 27th, 2012
2:27 pm

“But I will agree that JC1 creates his own shot better than KH. Neither of whom are still Hawks, but hey, we can argue in a vacuum, right? But of course, we’ll be abhorred by Nature.”

Not to mention being abhorred by most of the blog. Crawford and Hinrich are gone.
——————————————————————

You mean I’m hated on this blog? [smh]

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@ O’brien

I wouldn’t even bank on it that’s how stupid and idiotic the ASG is for you.

As for those bashing Josh Smith I say keep it going because the guy played his heart out this entire year to be passed over for everything from All-star to All NBA(which ever) is a tragic thing.

As bad as you think Josh Smith jacking up those jumpers rather have that then Iso-Joe bogging down the offense to a halt that’s what happens all the time.

Does anyone actually go back and look at many of these stats for Joe vs. Josh if you look clearly Josh cared the team outright into the playoffs.

Whenever Joe had a really good game we played the sorriest teams, but on the other hand when Josh had really good games we played best and some of the worse.

I do agree Josh can be a handful, but he’s our best player we got honestly after this year I’m willing to put all my money on Al and Josh then put my money ever on Joe and Marvin.

I honestly don’t see how ASG can’t see it Marvin Williams is a bust pure bust he hasn’t done a darn thing we’ve changed coaches and still nothing.

Zaza outproduces Marvina He was stuck on the bench for the longest in favor of other players.

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Grandad
May 26th, 2012
2:06 pm

DawgNole

I suppose you are the perfect fan ?

Hurry back.
_______________________

Did I say I was the perfect fan? Absoutely not. There you go again, putting words in my mouth.

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“I still maintain that Jamal Crawford is a better facilitator than Kirk Hinrich. Kirk Hinrich has [probably] played the point guard position [in the NBA] more than Jamal Crawford has [played the point guard position].”

It’s certainly your right to maintain that. However, the league only has one statistic to measure facilitation, and that is assist numbers. And the numbers say that Hinrich “facilitates” at a greater rate than Jamal.

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@ Clarification

I’ve seen all I want to out of either Kirk and Jamal Crawford, but all you got to do is go back one year to see how much JC1 stunk it up trying to play PG he’s not a PG.

I do realize you weren’t the one saying that, but to whomever you were talking to they need to stop smoking that crazy ish.

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… as you being the perfect fan.

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Ray

Thanks for proving my point.

Also I am not clairvoyant, as are you,
so I cannot look into LD`s mind and devine the reasoning
for why he makes decisions.
Therefore;
the using injuries to reason for everything he did good,
and coaching acumen for everything he does bad is flawed logic.
e.g. Rusty`s applied logic

Last item;
when did you ever hear / read me say LD is / was great ?

‘` I’m sorry I don’t buy it that L.D is a great coach
under these circumstances `’

Also:
Lucky … Lucky … Lucky … Al is injured for nigh on to a yr.
You are maybe the 1st I`ve heard to lable an inj to a player
of that caliber as Lucky. Most likely we are still playing if Al
is healthy for the play-offs ! … Lucky ? … Serious … ?

” because he got lucky ” … -Ray- … @ 3:47 pm [r e; Al`s inj]

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@ Grandad

I’m saying no one knows what happens if Al doesn’t get injured that was one of those blessings for L.D because Zaza became more effective than he had been to most in a long time.

Also the reason I said all that is I don’t like L.D as a Head Coach, but we have no choice, but to endure it because he got very lucky. Because in my eyes L.D is just as if not more stubborn than Mike Woodson.

If no one gets injured in this shorten season does Josh become a beast? What about Zaza stepping it up till he got injured? How about us seeing Ivan Johnson at all this season.

We could still be playing if Al was still healthy or we could be as bad as a 7th seed.

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Some weekend reading material for the fanbase, an excerpt actually, about Udonis Haslem:

“Not once but twice Haslem has turned down contracts that would have paid him more than $10 million more than salary-cap-strapped Miami could afford. No one else in the NBA has literally given up so much to stay in one place. When the blueprint was being put together, Wade went to LeBron James and Chris Bosh and implored them to take millions less so the team would have room to keep Haslem’s toughness.

Wade knew they’d need a rugged man like that when the stakes and emotions escalated in the playoffs, so James and Bosh agreed, even though they didn’t know Haslem, which is how it comes to be that LeBron James, three-time MVP, earns many millions less than Joe Johnson. You know what Haslem says was the toughest part of last season for him? It wasn’t losing in the Finals. It was not being able to defend LeBron and Dwyane when they crumbled after hard fouls because he was injured and in a suit on the sidelines.

The last time Haslem saw his late mother smile? It was on her death bed, when he told her he was turning down the Dallas millions to stay with the Heat. And he has rarely been as moved as he was, in that rough neighborhood he calls home, when car after car pulled in to his mother’s wake and so many members of the Heat family emerged to be at his side in his weakest moment, Pat Riley included. So, yeah, when Wade fell at Haslem’s feet bleeding, back when that Indiana series was still close, somebody was going to pay for it.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/27/2819429/miami-heats-udonis-haslem-shares.html#storylink=cpy

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@Clarification

“…It’s certainly your right to maintain that. However, the league only has one statistic to measure facilitation, and that is assist numbers. And the numbers say that Hinrich “facilitates” at a greater rate than Jamal…” – Clarification

2011-2012 assist per game [apg] averages:

Joe Johnson – 3.9apg
Jamal Crawford – 3.2apg
Kirk Hinrich – 2.8apg
Mike Bibby – 2.1apg

Will you [at least] admit that Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford were better “facilitators” than Kirk Hinrich [was] during the 2011-2012 regular season?

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It all starts with ownership. If Udonis was playing for the ASG, I doubt he takes less money.

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Ray

I do not follow your logic, but I understand the point you make.

Now;
please try and understand this:

LD is an avg to middling coach.
No better, No worse.

If you are anyone else could *’`prove`’* to me
-that-
our Hawks *’`would`’* replace him [LD] with a marked upgrade,
such as:
Jerry Sloan, then by all means, I`m right there with you.
However,
if you are anyone else wishes to replace him with an unknown quantity,
chosen by Rick Sund; … then No Thanks !

Having been an athletic administrator;
one cannot justify a decision to replace a coach
*’`solely`’*
for the sake of change.

Having been a Coach;
had I been replaced without just cause,
my feelings would have been that whomever made the decision
-was unprofessional-
and yes I`ve seen it happen, but that don`t make it right.

We constantly wish for the Hawks organization to be:
*professional
*1st class
*championship quality
*clear thinking
*forward thinking
*providers of a winning culture
*with High expectations

Yet, when they actually do something [not wrong];;;
we cannot wish for them [ASG],
to just this once, because of didain for LD [fans],
to make an erroneous administrative decision based on bias.

I`m tired of talkin` about somethin` that is no longer felicitous
due to the man is signed for another yr.
And will probably be terminated upon a changing of the guard.

Sund was / is / and will be the larger problem if `n he is not ousted.

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Its time we cut Joe Johnson for amensity

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“Stephen Jackson is a role player for the Spurs(20 minutes or so per game) in the twilight of his career. If Josh played anywhere close to 20 minutes and God forbid was criticized for his decision making(including shot selection) by Popovich, he would whine to the media for a week. Jackson is a veteran who knows his place at this point in his career.”

Stephen Jackson started 58 regular season games and every playoff game for the Spurs in 2002-03 when they won the championship.

He isn’t the only knucklehead who was coveted by a good coach and helped that coach win a ring. Rasheed Wallace won a ring with Larry Brown. Dennis Rodman won several rings.

Josh isn’t anywhere near that level of knuckleheadedness anyway. Josh didn’t throw towels in any of his teammates’ faces.

Good coaches know how to get through to players. Josh would be just fine in Popovich’s system.

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Regarding knuckleheads, Metta World Peace showed questionable shot selection for pretty much his entire NBA career before he made it to the Lakers, not to mention the other knuckleheaded things he did, and Phil Jackson turned him into a key cog on a championship team.

The idea that a good coach couldn’t get through to Josh is laughable. Even Woody got through to him in 2009-10 and Woody is nowhere near a good coach. There are players in the NBA who manifest far more f-cked-up-in-the-head behavior than taking a few bad shots every game and still end up playing key roles on successful teams.

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Ray,

Doesn’t matter what I believe or you believe, really. The man wants out. We have to deal with the situation as it is, not as it should be. ASG is here to stay, Drew is here to stay, Sund we don’t know yet. Right now, it looks like everything is in place for Josh to never reach his potential, more hard feelings between the two sides, and more outbursts and whining about individual stuff. Is that what you guys want, or do you want to make the best out of a bad situation for both the player and the hometeam?

The Hawks can’t be trusted in a game of chicken, not enough forward-thinking individuals in this organization for that. And while Josh is talented, he isn’t good enough for any organization to cater to his every whim, that’s for the Kobes and Lebrons of the world.

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Also, guys like MWP, Sheed, S-Jax all had to bounce around a few times before finding a “home.”

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Buddy Grizzard
May 25th, 2012
4:16 pm

As I said in my open letter to Josh, I don’t blame him for wanting to leave. Just don’t compare Hawks fans to Celtics fans. Celtics win championships. Hawks get bounced in the first round and call it success.
_____________________

This goes to the heart of the matter; namely, satisfaction with mediocrity–year after year after year.

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Josh is gone and it’s really good for the team. The problem with the Hawks is you have two power forwards in the starting 5, the Hawks need to get a center and move Horford to power forward. Josh did a great job upgrading his trade market value this year, each season I’ve seen improvement in his game.In order for the Hawks to take the next step Josh has to go.

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Wow,

Popivich, when asked about Ginobli says, “He’s a SCORER. That’s what he does. Without his scoring we would not be where we are. He seems to understand that teams need scorers. Some on this blog disagree. I wonder who’s right? LOL

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Rusty

Am I so talented as to speak differently out of one side of my mouth
as well as the other;
or, speak the same out of one side then the other.
Maybe your intent was that I speak differently
out of both sides at the same time.
However,could your meaning be as you most probably intended;
that I speak out of one side of my mouth saying one thing,
then switch to the other & say something entirely different ?
For if that is what you mean, then no, you are wrong.
Also, if you are calling me a bearer of false witness, i.e. a liar,
then you should be man enough to do it to my face.
Which you could not do;
for I would make you stutter so badly that you could not speak.

Get someone to read this post to you aloud,
and explain it`s meaning;
so there will be no misunderstanding.
With regards,
Grandad

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“ginobli is a scorer who knows his place and he saw it was necessary to have his best game tonight. only time he has scored that many all year. scoring is about timing, too. ginobli konws he is a much a defender as a scorer and he knows that is what will keep him on the court. you think jackson would play defense like that in atl?”

Yes I do. Steven Jackson has always been a good defender. I think many of you over estimate players. The coach is the one that sets the tone. In case you did not realize it, Pargo and Willie Green had career years. Guys in the league realize that the Hawks have a talented team, they just need a leader. Steven Jackson is the exact type of guy that they need. As Barkley says, they have too many nice guys. They need a guy with an edge.

Ginobli is and has never been a good defender. He has just always had Tim Duncan to erase his mistakes behind him, and San Antonio plays good team defense. He is a SCORER. He scores. Sometimes he is hot, sometimes he is not.

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Rusty

My challenge still stands:

Dissect LD`s offense and tell me something other than:

” When Horford went down who the he__ was he going to put in
besides Zazza (sic) ”

Alright, now that Coach Rusty has done the obvious and inserted
zazzzza, whatcha gonna do now ?

Zaza has a different skill set Mr Coach Rusty;
now what adjustments did LD do or not do ?

Also which side of my mouth am I typing out of now.

Another question:
Am I right brain or left brain ?
Am I an upper or lower L or R brain learner ?

You seem to know of which side of my mouth I speak,
I was curious how much else you had identified about me.

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O’brien, that’s what I thought. So if that’s the case, Josh shot better as the season went on. And I don’t include the playoffs, because when he was healthy (game 1 – 38.5% from mid range) he shot pretty well, and we all know everyone’s field goal percentage goes down against Boston’s (ask Joe Johnson or even Lebron). Also it seemed to me Josh was shooting his free throws extremely well in the playoffs (76.2%). The thing about Josh is look at the Hawks record whenever he scored over 20 points. Not many players can go from being a number 3 option to a number 1 option and still not sacrifice wins when scoring. But knowing that the Hawks are extremely more efficient when Josh scores over 20 (even when Joe was injured), leaves me believing he would be willing to stay if he was made the focal point of the offense, and the Hawks brought in some more players who are willing to hustle and go after loose balls besides he, Zaza, and Ivan. I’m not saying the Hawks will win a championship with him as the lead player. But honestly the Hawks won’t win a championship with anyone on the roster as the lead player.

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