Atlanta Hawks: On Josh Smith’s future
Before Josh Smith started his summer vacation, he was asked about the possibility of signing a contract extension with the Hawks.
“I can’t get extended,” Smith said. “They didn’t give me the money; I had to go get it. That’s something I have to play it out and see how it goes from there.”
Two things stand out about that statement. The first is that Smith, who presumably got the info from his agent, is wrong about his contract not being eligible for an extension.
I looked at Larry Coon’s CBA FAQ and could see no reason why Smith is not eligible for an extension. It’s been at least three years since he signed the deal, it’s never been renegotiated and it doesn’t include an opt-in. I checked with Coon and he confirmed the Hawks can extend Smith’s deal (they actually have been able to do so since August).
But the more interesting aspect of Smith’s statement is his allusion to having to “go get” his contract. He’s referring, of course, to the offer sheet he signed with Memphis in 2008, which Atlanta subsequently matched. (The Hawks can thank the Grizzlies for being able to keep Smith with a reasonable deal.)
It bothers Smith he had to create a market for himself to get a satisfactory contract from the Hawks (though at least he didn’t have to leave the country like Josh Childress). Smith’s feelings were amplified when Al Horford got an extension before becoming a restricted free agent. So add that 2008 contract dance to Smith’s list of grievances with the Hawks.
The question now is whether Smith can be persuaded to sign an extension with the Hawks. My educated guess is Smith won’t do it. The Hawks may be able to make Smith feel more appreciated with their public comments, but what can can do about Smith’s main gripe, that they aren’t committed to winning a championship?
It seems unlikely the Hawks will even spend the full mid-level on a free agent. Remember what happened after Smith, Horford and Joe Johnson called on the Hawks to make some major moves during training camp? The Hawks ended up signing an assortment of minimum-salaried free agents, with two of those players on non-guaranteed deals.
Nor do trades look like a very promising way to placate Smith. Any deal that involves sending away Horford could leave as many holes as it covers. If trading Johnson is possible, it almost certainly means taking back another burdensome contract.
Zaza Pachulia and Jeff Teague are assets because they are productive players with reasonable contracts. But those are also good reasons to keep them. As for Marvin Williams, there hasn’t been a market for him for going on three years now.
The irony is that one of the best ways for the Hawks to bring in a major piece is to trade Smith. His production, experience and expiring contract make him an attractive target. So does the sense that he’s still yet to fully reach his potential, though that’s a reality that cuts both ways for the Hawks.
Are the Hawks beyond hoping Smith can become a superstar for them? How much is he worth? If the Hawks don’t think they can persuade Smith to commit beyond next season, do they aggressively try to trade him before the deadline or risk losing him for nothing next summer?
I’m genuinely interested to see how all that plays out. The Hawks have a recent history of overvaluing their own players. Michael Gearon Jr. does have a deep appreciation for Smith, even if Smith doesn’t think Gearon or his partners have done enough to show it.
For his part, Smith deflected questions about his standing trade request, noting that he could be fined for talking about it. But he didn’t sound as if he expects to be traded in the offseason.
“All I know is I have one more year on my contract so I will definitely be here,” he said. “I just have to go into the offseason to better myself and do whatever I have to do to help this ballclub. I was an Atlanta Hawk after the trade deadline and I’m one now, so I have to look at some of the things I can do to help my basketball team win ballgames, especially in the postseason.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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1,015 comments Add your comment
CoachHoops
May 27th, 2012
9:26 am
Trade Josh Smith and Marvin Williams to the Lakers for Bynum or Gasol and their 1st round pick.
KevinM
May 27th, 2012
9:33 am
2 things happen this season if Josh gets traded:
1) on any other ‘contending’ team, no way Josh gets the freedom he gets here in ATL. LD simply says Josh changed his game to more perimeter oriented when he was feeling hurt. So there’s LD’s justification and approval for Josh’s 400 long jumpers.
I blame LD.
2) if Josh is gone, then Al has to step up on both ends. Coming off a major injury, Al isn’t going to stay on the blocks any more than he has to and LD won’t be enforcing it either.
So after what we saw in a critical Game 6, with Josh’s bad jumper launches at the end and Al’s de vision to make that 2nd FT, it won’t happen , but I feel good about moving both guys to go in another direction.
Someone earlier said not resigning Chills was one of the best decisions Sund has made, and i think I’m just tired of not having a more impacting head coach and allowing players to just do as they wish. I think we’ve seen the extent of how good this team cam be as constructed.
With Sund running the ship, we’ll be fortunate to have one new starter this year.
Greg
May 27th, 2012
10:01 am
Stephen Jackson is a role player for the Spurs(20 minutes or so per game) in the twilight of his career. If Josh played anywhere close to 20 minutes and God forbid was criticized for his decision making(including shot selection) by Popovich, he would whine to the media for a week. Jackson is a veteran who knows his place at this point in his career.
The Hawks have no leaders(Drew, Johnson, Teague – what a joke) or maybe Josh would have figured out how to handle himself on and off the court by now.
Buddy Grizzard
May 27th, 2012
10:21 am
San Antonio would have to add about 10 chairs for how far at the end of the bench Josh would be.
drmaryb.(*_*).
May 27th, 2012
10:36 am
The Age-less Wonder!
“but can anyone name the #1 option type players who significantly improved their shooting after their prime?” – Sugar Ray –
___________
Now Lena Horn, that woman just took her game to a whole ‘notha level. If, you don’t know? You better ask.com.
Dick Clark didn’t start shooting blanks until he lost his stroke, (oops!) I meant – after he had a stroke. Aiight, I know that was bad but, you know drmaryb is gonna’ always keep it real.
Humor aside, here’s my point: no offense to MJ, but he didn’t find his pure, reliable shooting touch until around year 7 or 8 after he got bored with dunking and, tired of losing to the Bad Boys – Pistons.
So, in opinion Josh can certainly go to another gear and, add more stuff to his stuff.
The real question is actually two:
Can he do it here?
Can he do it with a coach like Mr. Drew, (a non-enforcer)?
If, you want to add a third? – Will he and Will he?
drmaryb.(*_*).
May 27th, 2012
10:38 am
* So, in my opinion …
maaavelous
May 27th, 2012
11:06 am
The dumbest player in the NBA a future superstar? Never.
brigadierjerry
May 27th, 2012
11:08 am
Interesting discussion on realgm on Joe Johnson and state of the Hawks:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1183411
Rufus1
May 27th, 2012
11:44 am
Does This team win a TITLE…
CP3
JJ
J-Chill
Josh
Zaza
Do you believe that team wins a TITLE with WOODY coaching?….. I DON’T… Also, I am not sure CP3 would be the same player under WOOOOOODY.
Please don’t say, “No, but they would be exciting”
Buddy Grizzard
May 27th, 2012
11:51 am
“He performed well under any standard you might utilize in order to evaluate his job performance.”
G-Dad, you talked about the adjustments LD made with Zaza moving into the starting lineup. I can’t argue X’s and O’s with you, but you do realize the Hawks almost traded Zaza at the deadline last year at a time when Drew thought Josh Powell was a better player, right?
You say he performed well under any standard. I’ve praised his play calling in the past and think this team’s disfunction is a function of the coach not having the respect of the players, both because of how he got the job (stabbing woody, befriending the players) and because he’s a low-paid, lame-duck (two years running now) coach.
But what about the standard of putting the best lineup on the floor? Let’s talk about that standard. Do you think he performed well by playing Willie Green ahead of Kirk Hinrich? Do you think he was right about Josh Powell? Do you think he did well be leaving Ivan on the bench in favor of Jason Collins this year, and by playing Collins ahead of Zaza in the playoffs last year? Do you think he did well to utilize JC1 in a facilitating role rather than letting him play off ball and look for his own shot? Please evaluate Larry Drew’s asset management and tell me how he’s done well by that standard.
Rod from College Park
May 27th, 2012
11:53 am
“Stats are useful to a point, but sometimes you have to put the pocket protector down and watch the game. Efficiency and skill level are not the same thing.”
Cosign.
High-sider
May 27th, 2012
12:17 pm
“Yeah, and as I point out over and over again to northcyde, as usage rate increases, efficiency decreases for pretty much every single player. Why? Because as usage rate increases, defenses focus more on a player and a player has to create his own shot more. So far in Al’s career, for all the other great things that he does, he has not shown that he can consistently create his own shot (let alone shots for others) the way Josh, Joe, or Jamal can. So it makes perfect sense that those players’ usage rates were higher…” – Najeh Davenpoop
With respect to basketball, this statement [above] basically sums up or at least ties in to the idea/concept/belief of the “law of diminishing returns.” “Certain bloggers” want to believe [in] their false idea[s] that if you were to give certain players such as Marvin Williams [nothcyde's boy], Kirk Hinrich [Buddy Grizzard's and clarification's boy] and Zaza Pachulia [Buddy Grizzard's boy] “increased usage” or more shot opportunities/playing time, these players will maintain their same [level of] efficiency as they had with “less usage.” These [aforementioned] players’ efficiency will decrease “over time” or with “increased usage” just like other “high usage” players. I don’t necessarily subscribe to the idea that Josh Smith is on or near the same level as Jamal Crawford or Joe Johnson when it comes to “shot creation.” He [J. Smith] doesn’t have the ball handling skills of Jamal Crawford or Joe Johnson. Josh Smith’s rather high assist average for him as a power forward comes primarily from his ball domination.
Marvin Williams, Kirk Hinrich and Zaza Pachulia can’t create shots for themselves much less others like Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford [can].
Clarification
May 27th, 2012
12:39 pm
High-Sider,
Just because YOU brought up Kirk Hinrich’s four low scoring games, and I contrasted that with Jamal’s four low scoring games (still a bad idea for you to have used that comparison) doesn’t mean at all that KH is my “boy”. It could have been ANY Hawk that you berated for scoring only 22 points in 4 games, while your “boy” JC1 could only score 29 in four games with an additional EIGHT SHOTS PER GAME.
All I did was to jump on the foolish opening that you gave to me. The player you chose to use for the example (in this case Kirk Hinrich) is irrelevant. I wasn’t defending Hinrich, but showing, based on your own words, the futility of Jamal’s final four games as a Hawk.
O"Brien
May 27th, 2012
1:45 pm
If I am Doc Rivers or Popovich, I would love to have Josh on team. I think they could persuade Josh to reduce his bad habits, and play to his strengths more frequently. And with a better HC, and a better team culture, I think Josh would finally give in, and be coached.
Like Josh, Rasheed Wallace had his issues too. But ask any Piston player (or HOF coach Larry Brown), they do not win the title w/o Rasheed. LB got his players to play the right way. We need a HC who will do what it takes to get Josh to play the right way. And if that involves benching him (like Barkley said), then so be it.
prison mike
May 27th, 2012
1:45 pm
If Horford shot 19-20 attempts per game his percentage would go down drastically, it’s no different for any player. Obviously, if a player can get you 50% return on that many attempts he would be a mega star: LBJ and KD.
Horf is a heavy jumpshot taker and teams rarely throw doubles his way. All you have to do is check the numbers from the Bulls and Magic series in 2011. They played him to his left and bodied him.
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3213/seasontype/3/al-horford
If he gets more responsibilities on offense it’ll hurt his game. He’s better off letting others create for him, ideally a pure point guard.
Also, the offense is not tailored for Smith, it’s specifically made for Joe since day one as he “perfected” his Iso skills as the full time point guard.
O"Brien
May 27th, 2012
1:49 pm
ATL should let Rick Sund ride off into the sunset, and do what Orlando is doing.
From hoopshype;
The Orlando Magic’s search for a general manager is centering on the Western Conference finals, where top Oklahoma City and San Antonio executives have emerged as serious candidates for the opening, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
Thunder vice president and assistant general manager Troy Weaver and Spurs assistant GM Dennis Lindsey have been targeted, and Orlando has been granted permission to talk with Weaver, sources said. The Spurs’ OK of permission for Lindsey is imminent, sources said.
Orlando has also been granted permission to speak with Oklahoma City’s assistant GM Rob Hennigan, who came into the league with the Spurs..
confusahawk
May 27th, 2012
1:53 pm
This guy is the most talented, clueless, hopeless, unteachable moron I’ve ever seen. Time to call this a bad investment and move on. He can’t seem to realize he is not an outside man. Trade him for a bag of new balls. He refers to himself as “J-Smoove”??? What the hell does that even mean? Body of an All-Star, Brain of a 12 yr old……….
Clarification
May 27th, 2012
1:55 pm
“Marvin Williams, Kirk Hinrich and Zaza Pachulia can’t create shots for themselves much less others like Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford [can”
Funny, but here we go again with Hinrich. No, he’s not my “boy” but you keep on bringing him up in comparison to JC1.
Career assist totals:
Kirk Hinrich: 5.4 / gm.
Jamal Crawford: 3.9 / gm.
Who created more shots for others? The nimbers say Hinrich.
But I will agree that JC1 creates his own shot better than KH. Neither of whom are still Hawks, but hey, we can argue in a vacuum, right? But of course, we’ll be abhorred by Nature.
O"Brien
May 27th, 2012
2:05 pm
More from the article;
Weaver is considered one of the league’s elite young executives, rising from a personnel director with the Utah Jazz to the No. 2 spot in Oklahoma City under GM Sam Presti.
Weaver has a strong track record as an evaluator of talent, and is well-connected on every level of the game. He pushed hard for the Thunder to draft point guard Russell Westbrook out of UCLA with the fourth overall pick in the 2008 draft, significantly higher than most NBA executives would’ve selected the future All-Star guard. Weaver has worked closely with Presti on constructing one of the most talented, cost-efficient rosters in the NBA.
Lindsey has been an assistant GM with the Spurs for five years, moving over to work under team president R.C. Buford after spending 11 seasons in the Houston Rockets’ front office. Lindsey has been careful in considering GM opportunities, and pulled out of searches with Minnesota, Phoenix and Toronto that would’ve likely resulted in offers of the general manager title..
I hope Rick decides to retire.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
May 27th, 2012
2:27 pm
“But I will agree that JC1 creates his own shot better than KH. Neither of whom are still Hawks, but hey, we can argue in a vacuum, right? But of course, we’ll be abhorred by Nature.”
Not to mention being abhorred by most of the blog. Crawford and Hinrich are gone.
Joe D
May 27th, 2012
2:40 pm
For the love God, please trade Marvin Williams to Cleveland for hopefully their second 1st round pick or more realistically for the 2nd round pick. If need be sale the pick for cash, Marvin’s performance and contract is restricting the Hawks ability to resign its key players along with retarding the team’s performance.
When Miami acquired Lebron, they dumped their 1st round underachieving weedhead to the Wolves for a 2nd round pick. It was a money dump; the player they drafted has not contirbuted. Again, how many times does this organization have to miss opportunities to cut their loses as it concerns Marvin. First, it was a mistake to resign Marvin over Chills. Chills was clearly the more productive and effective player. In addition, his contract would have much less. Next, Cleveland offered Shaq for Marvin and even if the Shaq experiment had failed. It was an one year deal and we would have dumped Marvin’s contract. Next, Cleveland offered Sessions for Marvin + a 2nd round pick and the Hawks turned down the deal. Finally, Cleveland continues express interest in Marvin and they have a ton of cap space.
Whatever deal which does not bring back salary, the Hawks should make similiar to Miami.
With Marvin’s contract gone, resigning of Josh, Ivan, and a legit FA SF become realistic possibility!
Signed concerned and troubled fan!
Go Hawks!
High-sider
May 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
@Clarification
I hear ya. BTW, my apologies [go out] to you [Clarification] and northcyde for misspelling your handles/names in my post @12:17pm.
jhan
May 27th, 2012
3:04 pm
Bulls Elevate Phil Jackson to Head Coach AP
Published: July 11, 1989
Phil Jackson, the top assistant to Doug Collins, was named head coach of the Chicago Bulls today, three years after he was passed over when the job was given to Collins.
SlimJr – Good thing the Bulls weren’t following your GM101 philosophy!!
High-sider
May 27th, 2012
3:22 pm
@Clarification
“Funny, but here we go again with Hinrich. No, he’s not my “boy” but you keep on bringing him up in comparison to JC1.
Career assist totals:
Kirk Hinrich: 5.4 / gm.
Jamal Crawford: 3.9 / gm.
Who created more shots for others? The nimbers say Hinrich…” – Clarification
Kirk Hinrich’s higher apg [assist per game] average over Jamal Crawford’s [apg average] has more to do with the fact that Hinrich has [probably] spent more [playing] time at the point guard position than Jamal Crawford has [on a per game or per minute basis]. Playing the point guard position [usually] translates into increased ball handling [responsibilities] and [more] ball domination which [usually] increases [a player's] assist opportunities and/or assist totals.
I still maintain that Jamal Crawford is a better facilitator than Kirk Hinrich. Kirk Hinrich has [probably] played the point guard position [in the NBA] more than Jamal Crawford has [played the point guard position].
High-sider
May 27th, 2012
3:25 pm
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
May 27th, 2012
2:27 pm
“But I will agree that JC1 creates his own shot better than KH. Neither of whom are still Hawks, but hey, we can argue in a vacuum, right? But of course, we’ll be abhorred by Nature.”
Not to mention being abhorred by most of the blog. Crawford and Hinrich are gone.
——————————————————————
You mean I’m hated on this blog? [smh]
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
3:27 pm
Buddy G
1st of all;
that query was directed at rusty specifically ?
Don`t give him any help.
Seriously:
about LD and the points you mentioned;
several of which were directed toward year 2011-2012.
*LD was learning on the job.
*He showed growth
** I would have fired him after yr one **
[the Teaguer debacle alone]
-ditto-
Sund for including our # 1 pick in the Washington trade
[that was a great trade, `cept for losing our # 1 pick]
Now back to 2012;
this is the season in which I was referencing
when I made my statement:
concerning adjustments LD made when Al went down;
I will stand by those as the man did well under trying
circunstances, and no, he didn`t do everything perfectly.
when a supervisor in management, evaluates performance,
they must take into account all factors;
including:
experience, entry level position [salary], working conditions,
unforesenn factors and events [inj],
the lockout & subsequent shortened season, etc.
My point was he dealt with those professionally.
Inserting Kirk into the starting line-up was an A+ move.
[do not say it took him too long to do it] … he did it.
Regardless of what many say:
Josh had his best season and
Teaguer had a breakout season.
____________________________________________
Look;
if the half-ASSG woul put out the $ to hire a ***** Coach
-FINE-
but until then;
it scares me to have them trying to throw darts at pictures on a wall
to choose the next guy.
Although Lester Conner would probably do just as well as LD.
Ray
May 27th, 2012
3:38 pm
@ O’brien
I wouldn’t even bank on it that’s how stupid and idiotic the ASG is for you.
As for those bashing Josh Smith I say keep it going because the guy played his heart out this entire year to be passed over for everything from All-star to All NBA(which ever) is a tragic thing.
As bad as you think Josh Smith jacking up those jumpers rather have that then Iso-Joe bogging down the offense to a halt that’s what happens all the time.
Does anyone actually go back and look at many of these stats for Joe vs. Josh if you look clearly Josh cared the team outright into the playoffs.
Whenever Joe had a really good game we played the sorriest teams, but on the other hand when Josh had really good games we played best and some of the worse.
I do agree Josh can be a handful, but he’s our best player we got honestly after this year I’m willing to put all my money on Al and Josh then put my money ever on Joe and Marvin.
I honestly don’t see how ASG can’t see it Marvin Williams is a bust pure bust he hasn’t done a darn thing we’ve changed coaches and still nothing.
Zaza outproduces Marvina He was stuck on the bench for the longest in favor of other players.
Ray
May 27th, 2012
3:47 pm
@ Grandad
Do you honestly know the reason why L.D did so great under what you and some others call trying circumstances?
Seriously just like in the first year under L.D we were calling for Teague to be let lose and L.D couldn’t hear none of us, and guess what happens the infamous trade and then K.H gets injured which in turn forces L.D to unleash Teague.
Fast Foward to this year with Horford going down and a few others throughout the year we got to see just how good certain players really were.
I’m sorry I don’t buy it that L.D is a great coach under these circumstances why because he got lucky. Because he wanted to be stubborn as a H.C and not play the players like Teague and others kind of like Woodson.
Always stuck to Horford, Marvin, Joe, Josh, or Bibby and Kirk.
Now because he was forced to play these people he’s actually been able to keep his job.
It’s all so the same reason some of these guys that normally wouldn’t play you see a few of the main guys become extremely irrelevant.
Marvin can have his numbers be reproduced by just about anyone on the bench even T-mac who’s often injured sometimes.
When you have people like Pargo contributed more than you there is a huge problem cause he’s no more than a 3rd string PG on a contending team.
DawgNole
May 27th, 2012
4:06 pm
Grandad
May 26th, 2012
2:06 pm
DawgNole
I suppose you are the perfect fan ?
Hurry back.
_______________________
Did I say I was the perfect fan? Absoutely not. There you go again, putting words in my mouth.
DawgNole
May 27th, 2012
4:14 pm
Sautee
May 26th, 2012
2:23 pm
“And what about the egotistical fan that thinks he’s the only one who can provide “regular doses of reality and common sense”?”
Ummm, DawgNole, I don’t think Ken claimed that he was “the only one”, now, did he?
_____________________
No, he didn’t, but he did say “regular doses of reality and common sense FROM ME.” So it’s a fairly safe assumption–especially when coupled with the fact that he spends much of his time here railing (in ALL CAPS) against those he perceives as “negative.” As I’ve said before, it’s not negativity; it’s reality.
Clarification
May 27th, 2012
4:15 pm
“I still maintain that Jamal Crawford is a better facilitator than Kirk Hinrich. Kirk Hinrich has [probably] played the point guard position [in the NBA] more than Jamal Crawford has [played the point guard position].”
It’s certainly your right to maintain that. However, the league only has one statistic to measure facilitation, and that is assist numbers. And the numbers say that Hinrich “facilitates” at a greater rate than Jamal.
DawgNole
May 27th, 2012
4:16 pm
donte080
May 26th, 2012
4:05 pm
Dawghole….I still see you don’t know wtf you are talking about….
___________________
And I see that you’re still defending your love interest.
Ray
May 27th, 2012
5:11 pm
@ Clarification
I’ve seen all I want to out of either Kirk and Jamal Crawford, but all you got to do is go back one year to see how much JC1 stunk it up trying to play PG he’s not a PG.
I do realize you weren’t the one saying that, but to whomever you were talking to they need to stop smoking that crazy ish.
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
5:23 pm
DawgNole
I did not put any words into your mouth.
I said:
‘` I suppose `’
meaning that I [me] Grandad;
interpreted your running narrative as a pseudo fan who -
‘rises above the fray’ – …
… while we – *untouchables * [re; the Hindu culture]
run amok, mindlessly, for your occasional amusement.
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
5:25 pm
… as you being the perfect fan.
Marcus
May 27th, 2012
5:36 pm
OB,
As long as ASG is signing the checks, top GM candidates will avoid us for the same reason top FAs do.
Mr. Blank send help. Show us the power of Home Depot.
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
5:45 pm
Ray
Thanks for proving my point.
Also I am not clairvoyant, as are you,
so I cannot look into LD`s mind and devine the reasoning
for why he makes decisions.
Therefore;
the using injuries to reason for everything he did good,
and coaching acumen for everything he does bad is flawed logic.
e.g. Rusty`s applied logic
Last item;
when did you ever hear / read me say LD is / was great ?
‘` I’m sorry I don’t buy it that L.D is a great coach
under these circumstances `’
Also:
Lucky … Lucky … Lucky … Al is injured for nigh on to a yr.
You are maybe the 1st I`ve heard to lable an inj to a player
of that caliber as Lucky. Most likely we are still playing if Al
is healthy for the play-offs ! … Lucky ? … Serious … ?
” because he got lucky ” … -Ray- … @ 3:47 pm [r e; Al`s inj]
High-sider
May 27th, 2012
5:49 pm
@Clarification
Clarification
May 27th, 2012
4:15 pm
“I still maintain that Jamal Crawford is a better facilitator than Kirk Hinrich. Kirk Hinrich has [probably] played the point guard position [in the NBA] more than Jamal Crawford has [played the point guard position].”
It’s certainly your right to maintain that. However, the league only has one statistic to measure facilitation, and that is assist numbers. And the numbers say that Hinrich “facilitates” at a greater rate than Jamal.
———————————————————————
So, according to your logic, Mike Bibby is a better “facilitator” than Kirk Hinrich, Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford.
Career assist per game averages:
Mike Bibby – 5.5apg
Kirk Hinrich – 5.4apg
Joe Johnson – 4.4apg
Jamal Crawford – 3.9apg
Ray
May 27th, 2012
5:57 pm
@ Grandad
I’m saying no one knows what happens if Al doesn’t get injured that was one of those blessings for L.D because Zaza became more effective than he had been to most in a long time.
Also the reason I said all that is I don’t like L.D as a Head Coach, but we have no choice, but to endure it because he got very lucky. Because in my eyes L.D is just as if not more stubborn than Mike Woodson.
If no one gets injured in this shorten season does Josh become a beast? What about Zaza stepping it up till he got injured? How about us seeing Ivan Johnson at all this season.
We could still be playing if Al was still healthy or we could be as bad as a 7th seed.
High-sider
May 27th, 2012
6:01 pm
@Ray
“I’ve seen all I want to out of either Kirk and Jamal Crawford, but all you got to do is go back one year to see how much JC1 stunk it up trying to play PG he’s not a PG.
I do realize you weren’t the one saying that, but to whomever you were talking to they need to stop smoking that crazy ish.” – Ray
Don’t blame Jamal Crawford because players like Zaza Pachulia “blew” [missed] point blank layups after receiving “sweet feeds” [passes] from JC1 off [the] pick ‘n rolls during the 2010-2011 regular season; blame players like Pachulia, [Etan] Thomas, [Josh] Powell, [Jason] Collins and [Hilton] Armstrong who had trouble finishing at the rim for the Hawks in that ‘10-’11 [regular] season.
Sugar Ray
May 27th, 2012
6:11 pm
Some weekend reading material for the fanbase, an excerpt actually, about Udonis Haslem:
“Not once but twice Haslem has turned down contracts that would have paid him more than $10 million more than salary-cap-strapped Miami could afford. No one else in the NBA has literally given up so much to stay in one place. When the blueprint was being put together, Wade went to LeBron James and Chris Bosh and implored them to take millions less so the team would have room to keep Haslem’s toughness.
Wade knew they’d need a rugged man like that when the stakes and emotions escalated in the playoffs, so James and Bosh agreed, even though they didn’t know Haslem, which is how it comes to be that LeBron James, three-time MVP, earns many millions less than Joe Johnson. You know what Haslem says was the toughest part of last season for him? It wasn’t losing in the Finals. It was not being able to defend LeBron and Dwyane when they crumbled after hard fouls because he was injured and in a suit on the sidelines.
The last time Haslem saw his late mother smile? It was on her death bed, when he told her he was turning down the Dallas millions to stay with the Heat. And he has rarely been as moved as he was, in that rough neighborhood he calls home, when car after car pulled in to his mother’s wake and so many members of the Heat family emerged to be at his side in his weakest moment, Pat Riley included. So, yeah, when Wade fell at Haslem’s feet bleeding, back when that Indiana series was still close, somebody was going to pay for it.”
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/27/2819429/miami-heats-udonis-haslem-shares.html#storylink=cpy
Sugar Ray
May 27th, 2012
6:13 pm
Some weekend reading material for the fanbase, an excerpt actually, about Udonis Haslem:
“Not once but twice Haslem has turned down contracts that would have paid him more than $10 million more than salary-cap-strapped Miami could afford. No one else in the NBA has literally given up so much to stay in one place. When the blueprint was being put together, Wade went to LeBron James and Chris Bosh and implored them to take millions less so the team would have room to keep Haslem
High-sider
May 27th, 2012
6:20 pm
@Clarification
“…It’s certainly your right to maintain that. However, the league only has one statistic to measure facilitation, and that is assist numbers. And the numbers say that Hinrich “facilitates” at a greater rate than Jamal…” – Clarification
2011-2012 assist per game [apg] averages:
Joe Johnson – 3.9apg
Jamal Crawford – 3.2apg
Kirk Hinrich – 2.8apg
Mike Bibby – 2.1apg
Will you [at least] admit that Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford were better “facilitators” than Kirk Hinrich [was] during the 2011-2012 regular season?
Sugar Ray
May 27th, 2012
6:21 pm
That type of selfless attitude and loyalty goes a long way. The Hawks are led by a couple of players who, while talented, have always been out for themselves… and that’s why they don’t progress. Complaining about shot attempts, overpaid, not playing the right way on BOTH ends of the floor, then have the audacity to blame someone else when things don’t work? Talking about needing to make trades to build a contender? How is that possible when the “leaders” aren’t setting the example in every way possible? And they actually have people lining up to defend it all.
O"Brien
May 27th, 2012
6:27 pm
It all starts with ownership. If Udonis was playing for the ASG, I doubt he takes less money.
Ra'mon
May 27th, 2012
6:44 pm
O’Brien, I think that Josh’s field goal attempts and percentages should be broken up in two sections, before the all star selection, and after the all star selection when LD started looking at him as a number 1 option. I believe his field goal percentage went up on his mid range shot considerably. I believe if you look at from mid-February to the end of the regular season, it would show this. Tonight I’m going to attempt and find the statistics to back it up.
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
7:06 pm
Ray
I do not follow your logic, but I understand the point you make.
Now;
please try and understand this:
LD is an avg to middling coach.
No better, No worse.
If you are anyone else could *’`prove`’* to me
-that-
our Hawks *’`would`’* replace him [LD] with a marked upgrade,
such as:
Jerry Sloan, then by all means, I`m right there with you.
However,
if you are anyone else wishes to replace him with an unknown quantity,
chosen by Rick Sund; … then No Thanks !
Having been an athletic administrator;
one cannot justify a decision to replace a coach
*’`solely`’*
for the sake of change.
Having been a Coach;
had I been replaced without just cause,
my feelings would have been that whomever made the decision
-was unprofessional-
and yes I`ve seen it happen, but that don`t make it right.
We constantly wish for the Hawks organization to be:
*professional
*1st class
*championship quality
*clear thinking
*forward thinking
*providers of a winning culture
*with High expectations
Yet, when they actually do something [not wrong];;;
we cannot wish for them [ASG],
to just this once, because of didain for LD [fans],
to make an erroneous administrative decision based on bias.
I`m tired of talkin` about somethin` that is no longer felicitous
due to the man is signed for another yr.
And will probably be terminated upon a changing of the guard.
Sund was / is / and will be the larger problem if `n he is not ousted.
Ray
May 27th, 2012
7:09 pm
@ O’brien
co-sign on that one
@ Sugar Ray
I doubt Josh Smith isn’t out for himself he’s said before he wanted to win something for this city that was awhile ago. You and a bunch of others might not like Josh Smith, but as of this moment many other coaches are hoping that he leaves ATL and comes to their team right now.
Pillar of Wisdom
May 27th, 2012
7:18 pm
Its time we cut Joe Johnson for amensity
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
7:22 pm
Ra’mon
” I think that Josh’s field goal attempts and percentages
should be broken up in two sections,
before the all star selection, and after the all star selection ”
* perhaps *
Or;
maybe Josh suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder ?
alot of folks myself included have used ’schizophrenia’
to describe both Josh and our Hawks but [D.I.D.]
or Multiple Personality Disorder is the more correct term.
so;
the question really is:
Should Josh`s FG attmpts be broken up into;
good Josh or bad Josh ? … or others ???
*humor