Atlanta Hawks: On Josh Smith’s future
Before Josh Smith started his summer vacation, he was asked about the possibility of signing a contract extension with the Hawks.
“I can’t get extended,” Smith said. “They didn’t give me the money; I had to go get it. That’s something I have to play it out and see how it goes from there.”
Two things stand out about that statement. The first is that Smith, who presumably got the info from his agent, is wrong about his contract not being eligible for an extension.
I looked at Larry Coon’s CBA FAQ and could see no reason why Smith is not eligible for an extension. It’s been at least three years since he signed the deal, it’s never been renegotiated and it doesn’t include an opt-in. I checked with Coon and he confirmed the Hawks can extend Smith’s deal (they actually have been able to do so since August).
But the more interesting aspect of Smith’s statement is his allusion to having to “go get” his contract. He’s referring, of course, to the offer sheet he signed with Memphis in 2008, which Atlanta subsequently matched. (The Hawks can thank the Grizzlies for being able to keep Smith with a reasonable deal.)
It bothers Smith he had to create a market for himself to get a satisfactory contract from the Hawks (though at least he didn’t have to leave the country like Josh Childress). Smith’s feelings were amplified when Al Horford got an extension before becoming a restricted free agent. So add that 2008 contract dance to Smith’s list of grievances with the Hawks.
The question now is whether Smith can be persuaded to sign an extension with the Hawks. My educated guess is Smith won’t do it. The Hawks may be able to make Smith feel more appreciated with their public comments, but what can can do about Smith’s main gripe, that they aren’t committed to winning a championship?
It seems unlikely the Hawks will even spend the full mid-level on a free agent. Remember what happened after Smith, Horford and Joe Johnson called on the Hawks to make some major moves during training camp? The Hawks ended up signing an assortment of minimum-salaried free agents, with two of those players on non-guaranteed deals.
Nor do trades look like a very promising way to placate Smith. Any deal that involves sending away Horford could leave as many holes as it covers. If trading Johnson is possible, it almost certainly means taking back another burdensome contract.
Zaza Pachulia and Jeff Teague are assets because they are productive players with reasonable contracts. But those are also good reasons to keep them. As for Marvin Williams, there hasn’t been a market for him for going on three years now.
The irony is that one of the best ways for the Hawks to bring in a major piece is to trade Smith. His production, experience and expiring contract make him an attractive target. So does the sense that he’s still yet to fully reach his potential, though that’s a reality that cuts both ways for the Hawks.
Are the Hawks beyond hoping Smith can become a superstar for them? How much is he worth? If the Hawks don’t think they can persuade Smith to commit beyond next season, do they aggressively try to trade him before the deadline or risk losing him for nothing next summer?
I’m genuinely interested to see how all that plays out. The Hawks have a recent history of overvaluing their own players. Michael Gearon Jr. does have a deep appreciation for Smith, even if Smith doesn’t think Gearon or his partners have done enough to show it.
For his part, Smith deflected questions about his standing trade request, noting that he could be fined for talking about it. But he didn’t sound as if he expects to be traded in the offseason.
“All I know is I have one more year on my contract so I will definitely be here,” he said. “I just have to go into the offseason to better myself and do whatever I have to do to help this ballclub. I was an Atlanta Hawk after the trade deadline and I’m one now, so I have to look at some of the things I can do to help my basketball team win ballgames, especially in the postseason.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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1,015 comments Add your comment
Rod from College Park
May 26th, 2012
11:48 pm
“Monta Ellis and Jamal Crawford can create their own shots, but I’ll take someone like Steve Novak or Tyson Chandler over both of them.”
Steve Novak and Tyson Chandler are two totally different types of players. If you would tale Steve Novak over Monte Ellis or Jamal Crawford, I can assure you that basketball scouting or being a general manager of a basketball organization is not in your future. SMH
Rusty
May 26th, 2012
11:50 pm
I’m so sick of iso Joe. He slows our offense down to a crawl & often bails out to Josh with little time on the cloak. The ball definitely doesn’t need to be in JJ’s hands. There was a lot of reasons why I wanted LD gone,his crazy substitutions, his putting people in his doghouse like JT,Ivan & TMac. His offense which is really nothing more than a lot of iso play with every one taking jumpshots with very little easy buckets. It seems that this team has a lot of athletic talent but he prefers us to play at a snail like pace. He is a coach who can’t control JJ or JS. This team will play this year just like the season just completed. I certainly don’t expect any trades.
Slimjr
May 26th, 2012
11:58 pm
Rusty, in my OPINION Larry cost them the Series…Game two he just got out coached..Win that game and they had a over 82% chance to win the Series..
But Philly would have swept them in the next round so its just as well they didn’t advance and be embarrassed again…
Rusty
May 27th, 2012
12:08 am
Slimjr we will never be a real good team as long as LD let’s JJ & JS do what ever they want. I give credit to AH & JT as they try to play the game the right way. MW & KH should never play first string. I really feel that this team would have got past Boston if LD didn’t fk up with his crazy substations.
High-sider
May 27th, 2012
12:10 am
“…Monta Ellis and Jamal Crawford can create their own shots, but I’ll take someone like Steve Novak or Tyson Chandler over both of them…” – Sugar Ray
That depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re looking for a player that provides rim protection and interior post defense, then, yeah, you should take Tyson Chandler over Monta Ellis, Jamal Crawford and Steve Novak. But if you’re looking for a player that will give you explosive and clutch scoring perhaps off the bench and a good-to-excellent one-on-one player that create a shot for himself or someone else especially during “crunch” time, then you should take Monta Ellis or Jamal Crawford. Other than spot-up shooting, Novak really gives you very little. If Novak’s jumper is off, then what good is he [Novak] on the court?
I don’t know any [known] “clutch” players that shoot [or have shot] 50+% or even 40+% from the field when shooting game-tying or game-winning shots over a [considerably lengthy NBA] career. If I’m wrong, Sugar Ray aka AJC Hawks Blog “stat boy,” please provide those statistics to refute what I’m saying.
Slimjr
May 27th, 2012
12:16 am
So the Hawks have the 23rd pick? They should try and move up to Houston’s pick[#14] and draft probably one the most talented/best players coming out of this very deep draft: Jeremy Lamb, Connecticut!
This guy should be a lottery pick but will be a steal at 14!
High-sider
May 27th, 2012
12:17 am
@Sugar Ray
Correction: But if you’re looking for a player that will give you explosive and clutch scoring perhaps off the bench and a good-to-excellent one-on-one player that [can*] create a shot for himself or someone else especially during “crunch” time, then you should take Monta Ellis or Jamal Crawford.
Z-Ro
May 27th, 2012
12:20 am
Josh and Al play GREAT off of each other the problem is they’re playing 4 and 5 when they should be playing 3 and 4 respectively!! Joe Johnson doesnt elevate anyone on the teams game because while he can handle the ball AND pass by the time he decides to stop driblling and make that pass there’s only 0.3 left on the clock! joe Johnson is the epitome of overrated! There is NOTHING overrated about Josh or Al’s games even though Josh throws up some horrible shots he more thatn makes up for it (just check those box scores)
Slimjr
May 27th, 2012
12:34 am
6′9″ two guard Lamb!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdJ8HXp-3SY&feature=related
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
12:36 am
Sugar Ray @ 10:46 pm
Co~Sign … !
The point I`ve been trying to make for ages.
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
12:39 am
Slimjr
Lamb is 6-5
Where did you get 6-9 ?
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
12:42 am
Just Joe
I really like Draymond Green alot.
I love Izzo`s kids.
I think if we had Cleveland`s two 2nd round picks,
we could grab him there.
I do not have him with a 1st round grade.
Slimjr
May 27th, 2012
12:42 am
oops thanks Grandad….
BirdDawg
May 27th, 2012
12:49 am
People say Josh has a bad attitude, and he might. But in my mind, his attitude is justified. If you asked Michael Jordan to take a back seat to Pippen, Kobe to take a back seat to Gasol, or any player with superstar talent to take a back seat to a player of lower caliber, I imagine the result would be the same. Josh is more talented than Joe, he gets his teammates involved better than Joe does and he’s more active or both ends of the floor than Joe. Joe is not a superstar or anywhere close, but the Hawks seem unwilling to admit that to themselves. Joe is a great complementary player getting paid like a superstar and given free reign of the team like a superstar. In truth, this team should run through Josh and should have for a few seasons now. So, to all his naysayers, watch him walk, join another team and become the player he should have become if Hawks coaching/management had any basketball sense at all. I.E. Boris Diaw and Jason Terry
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
12:55 am
Rusty
I agree with you.
Joe stops the offense.
Where you and I differ, is, LD does not run Iso
as much as you think.
It begins as a play or motion or whatever;
then it devolves into Iso-mish~mash.
Even when Joe runs pick and roll,
he never looks for the slip [cutter] or [roll].
Josh Isos are more often than not;
along the baseline or at the high-post
which;
is completely different from Iso-Joe.
Many, many times Joe catches the ball in the post area,
[such as Josh] or along the baseline,
then dribbles back out and starts over.
What`s the point ?
Joe also does not pass out of double teams.
-rather-
He dribbles out the clock.
I honestly Do Not believe;
LD has designed this into his offense.
LD is Not perfect, neither is he great;
but he is Not the scapegoat for Joe
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
12:59 am
LD does run Iso-J as an end-game strategy.
With this I disagree – vehemently.
Everyone knows it too.
-so-
They double Joe more often than not.
Boneheaded strategy … yes.
*[if you do it all the time] … which he does.
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
1:01 am
Boneheaded strategy – pertaing to LD
Not;
the stategy of double-teaming Joe.
Heck, I would do that too.
He ain`t gonna pass it.
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
1:03 am
*pertaing
That`s a Laotian word for dumbass typer.
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
1:05 am
Slimjr
Like I can type ?
Slimjr
May 27th, 2012
1:09 am
Hahahaha Grandad.. I’m sore from Sugar Rays left and right hooks! lol!
TMACfan
May 27th, 2012
1:11 am
Trade Josh for as many first rounders as possible.
Slimjr
May 27th, 2012
1:14 am
Iso over the years appears to have slowed down in making a quick well defined move toward the basket and or passing quickly out of a double team..He’s got to watch some film and see it for himself..
Wishful thinking with this Head coach I reckon?
[rekon], we did not use that word growing up in Da Bronx! Hehehehe
Rusty
May 27th, 2012
1:16 am
LD encourages JJ to play this way as he doesn’t even attempt to stop this crap. At the end of games the hawks often try to give games away as they let JJ handle the offense which usually comes to a dead stop .
Rusty
May 27th, 2012
1:19 am
That contract encouraged JJ to play this way as he always liked to play the man but now he feels he has to.
Slimjr
May 27th, 2012
1:29 am
Iso and Josh want to win and I believe with a very respectful, seasoned Head Coach they would make the appropriate changes to their game to help this team advance…
Larry does not get the respect he should get being the head coach because he was their friend 1st. I blame Sund for that hire!
You never hire the assistant of the Head Coach you just let go..You let the whole staff go and bring in fresh blood! GM 101
There’s more to a Head Coaching job than just x’s and o’s? Hmmm..
Slimjr
May 27th, 2012
1:36 am
I wonder If Josh market value could garner a lottery pick this year or 2 1st and a 2nd?
DawgNole
May 27th, 2012
1:43 am
Buddy Grizzard
May 25th, 2012
4:16 pm
As I said in my open letter to Josh, I don’t blame him for wanting to leave. Just don’t compare Hawks fans to Celtics fans. Celtics win championships. Hawks get bounced in the first round and call it success.
_________________________
Bingo!
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
May 27th, 2012
1:56 am
ISO NOTHING
We need a offensive system with more movement like the Celtics and San Antonio. LD needs to learn how to coach and draw up more offensive sets so we won’t have to depend on the iso so much.
Rusty
May 27th, 2012
1:57 am
Don’t compare the hawks to the celts,they are well coached . There movement of the ball is beautiful,everybody is on the same page.
High-sider
May 27th, 2012
2:00 am
@Grandad
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
1:03 am
*pertaing
That`s a Laotian word for dumbass typer.
——————————————————————
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
1:01 am
Boneheaded strategy – pertaing to LD
Not;
the stategy of double-teaming Joe.
Heck, I would do that too.
He ain`t gonna pass it.
———————————————————————-
From which foreign language does the word/term “stategy” come from and what does it [stategy] mean?
Rusty
May 27th, 2012
2:06 am
Grandpa our offense is flawed.I just don’t know how you can’t hold the coach accountable for this.
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
3:24 am
Rusty;
I`ve challenged you before:
Please;
tell me exactly how the offense as designed is flawed.
Use X`s & O`s, describe the screening action,
discuss such things as Josh`s poor fundamentals on screening
which is why they never pick & roll with Josh ?
whoops I gave you a clue.
Discuss the Double High set & what is flawed about that.
Let`s talk about not having Al and the adjustments
LD made using Zaza … did you like those ?
Describe those for me & explain those flaws, if any.
Or, did the man adjust well, huh ?
Don`t just make general statements:
give me something concrete.
Not some stats that you can cut and paste.
I want you to [out of your own head] tell me specific plays,
sets, flawed concepts of offensive basketball.
Not Iso-Joe – we all know that one.
Our Hawks ran plenty of good offensive schemes
this yr besides Iso-Joe;
c`mon now`s your chance, I want to hear it !
What you got ?
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
3:31 am
High-Sider:
*stategy
shorthand for strategery
straight out of the George Bush Dictionary – unabridged of course
Najeh Davenpoop
May 27th, 2012
3:42 am
“And despite what some want to believe, Josh is more easily replaced than JJ, because of the presence of Al Horford.”
Josh’s skills are not more easily replaced than Joe’s skills. Not even close. And Al isn’t going to replace them.
Grandad
May 27th, 2012
3:43 am
Rusty
I do hold LD accountable.
When LD is wrong or when he deserves to be chastised.
He is just not wrong in everything he does.
-yes-
He does much to my distaste.
His offensive sets are not one of them.
I think he is a middling coach;
who has overacheived.
I think, perhaps Lester Conner has saved his butt.
Along with Jerry Stackhouse.
Still under the circumstances;
he performed well under any standard you might utilize
in order to evaluate his job performance.
____________________________________________
My biggest problem with replacing LD ?
Yes – there are 5 to 8 names of guys who could do better.
The half-ASSG could not be trusted to hire
one of those 5 to 8 coaches [better] coaches.
So, now we have a guessing game as to;
do we end up with a complete dumb-ass ?
-answer-
Yes; we could do much, much worse, believe me.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 27th, 2012
3:45 am
“Also, Horford has never had a usage rate higher than 20% in his career… Josh, Joe and even Jamal were always higher (meaning, they got more opportunities), even though each of those three players are less efficient than Al on offense.”
Yeah, and as I point out over and over again to northcyde, as usage rate increases, efficiency decreases for pretty much every single player. Why? Because as usage rate increases, defenses focus more on a player and a player has to create his own shot more. So far in Al’s career, for all the other great things that he does, he has not shown that he can consistently create his own shot (let alone shots for others) the way Josh, Joe, or Jamal can. So it makes perfect sense that those players’ usage rates were higher.
It is like asking why the Knicks don’t run more plays for Tyson Chandler, who just set the all time record for field goal percentage in a season. Chandler is so efficient BECAUSE he doesn’t get plays run for him.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 27th, 2012
3:47 am
“I mean, you guys can ignore them all you want, but the bottom line is the Hawks offense IS what holds them back year after year, and it seems like you guys can’t let go of Josh.”
Yeah, and the Hawks’ defense IS what makes them a playoff team year after year, and Josh is the reason why.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 27th, 2012
3:51 am
“The Sixers are about to lose to the Celtics for the same reason the Hawks lost: Bad shot selection.
PHI and ATL have talent, but their best players got selfish and their coaches stuck by bad role players. Same thing happened to the Pacers.”
Yeah, and the thing PHI, ATL, and IND all have in common is the lack of a true #1 offensive option. Can’t beat good defenses without one. As well as the Celtics and Spurs share the ball, they each have true #1 options on offense who can create shots for themselves and others. The Hawks, Pacers, and Sixers do not. You can talk about ball movement and shot selection all day, but it won’t matter until the roster is upgraded.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 27th, 2012
3:53 am
“How many guys on the Spurs can create their own shot? Parker, Manu, maybe Duncan. Yet they have the best offense in the league and cruised to the West Finals.”
Yeah, they have two, maybe three future Hall of Fame caliber players who can create shots for themselves and others, including the best PF of all time. That makes a pretty huge difference.
The Sixers shared the ball all season — 10th in the NBA in team assists — and ended up ranked 20th in offensive rating. No shot creators.
Then you have a team like the Knicks FULL oof ISO players who are selfish and can “create their own shot” and they can’t even make their first round series competitive. Some of yall just like the dunks and then you wonder why the team can’t go any further?”
Najeh Davenpoop
May 27th, 2012
3:54 am
“Then you have a team like the Knicks FULL oof ISO players who are selfish and can “create their own shot” and they can’t even make their first round series competitive. Some of yall just like the dunks and then you wonder why the team can’t go any further?””
And who made them look non-competitive in the first round? The Heat, who have the two best shot creators in the league.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 27th, 2012
3:55 am
“Can you imagine Greg Popovich dealing with Josh? It would never happen because a team like the Spurs wouldn’t touch Josh with a 10 foot pole.”
Yeah, because Stephen Jackson is extremely disciplined. Give me a break.
najeh dappenfart
May 27th, 2012
4:02 am
Woodson got a new contract. Fire Spirit Group! We need Josh.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 27th, 2012
4:03 am
Here are the eFG% leaders for the remaining playoff teams (limited to players who play significant minutes)
MIA: Mike Miller, Joel Anthony, LeBron James
BOS: Ray Allen, Greg Stiemsma, Avery Bradley
SAS: Boris Diaw, Tiago Splitter, Manu Ginobili
OKC: Nick Collison, James Harden, Kevin Durant
If you went into the Heat coaching meeting and told them that Wade needs to give up shot attempts so Joel Anthony can get the ball more, you would get laughed out of the room, and rightfully so. Same with telling Doc Rivers to get Greg Stiemsma more of Pierce’s looks, telling Popovich to give Splitter more of Duncan’s looks, or telling Scott Brooks to give Nick Collison more of Westbrook’s looks.
Stats are useful to a point, but sometimes you have to put the pocket protector down and watch the game. Efficiency and skill level are not the same thing.
kontract
May 27th, 2012
4:14 am
good points najeh…Miami beats oldass Celtics and Spurs beat yougass Thunder…SPURS win it all!
vava74
May 27th, 2012
4:29 am
Last year of Josh with a Hawks uni and we will roll out the same sorry excuse of a head-coach next season.
Hah! Josh never got the benefit of proper coaching and people complain that he makes boneheaded plays.
He came straight out of high-school, never got coached at the college level, has been coached by Woody and LD and people complain about him?
Complain about the ASG.
With Sloan, Josh and the Hawks would flourish next year.
The biggest difference that people see between Al and Josh comes exactly from the fact that Al was inserted in a winning basketball program with a quality coach (Donovan) who molded all his players into team-first guys.
Even the guys who did not make it in the NBA have found their niche (Taurean Green even adopted a new nationality in order to keep his career alive – instead of being a drop out in life, he found a way to be a contributor in a different environment).
Even JJ has suffered from poor coaching throughout his pro career:
- D’Antoni, Woody and LD??
And people are surprised that he does not have a clue on how to maximize his game and constantly falls into the same stupid mistakes against quality opposition?
LACK OF COACHING, DEAD SIMPLE.
Look at what happened in Minny – obviously, Rubio was a factor too – between what they produced under Rambis and what they produced with Adelman.
Coaching is as big deciding factor in the NBA as player talent.
We lost 4-2 against a team (BOS) which is much better coached and that now is in the East finals with virtually only 4 or 5 live bodies and a bunch of gimpy vets.
We were clearly robbed by the refs, but lack of quality coaching made the difference on all those close games.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 27th, 2012
4:41 am
One more thing: this idea that the Hawks’ offense was good because of Sund’s bargain basement shooters is pretty funny. Willie Green posted a career best FG% and his 2nd best 3FG% of his career this year. Pargo posted the 2nd best FG% and 3FG% of his career this year. Sh-t, even Marvin posted a career best 3FG%. It’s not like they went out and signed Stojakovic.
Maybe, just maybe, this has something to do with Josh being the last starter to get taken out when the bench rotated into the game in the first half and consequently playing more minutes with the bench than any other starter, and something to do with T-Mac’s facilitating ability on the 2nd unit. Always helps a shooter to have teammates on the floor who can find the open guy, and Josh and T-Mac are the best on this team at doing that.
Sugar Ray
May 27th, 2012
5:35 am
Search for all the excuses you want, but the bottom line never changes:
Josh wants out.
Blame the coaches, ASG, the arena food, the uniforms, whatever… the bottom never changes:
Josh wants out.
You want Dwight? That’s great… but guess what? Dwight doesn’t want you. Know what else?
Josh wants out.
There isn’t anything you or I can do to change it. I have my opinion, and you have yours. The fact?
Josh wants out.
So now what are you gonna do? Overpay a guy just to TRY to retain him? Didn’t work the last couple times this team tried it. Might want to manage the finances better. But guess what?
Josh wants out.
So you have a choice. Trade him now or watch him walk for nothing. But keep in mind.
Josh wants out.
Slimjr
May 27th, 2012
7:45 am
We need to get buckets in the crunch against the winners…
28-47= lack of #1 scoring options against better defenders…
Upgrade Upgrade Upgrade!!!!!
C’mon 32 year GM, get out the Rolodex and get to work!
Josh Wants Out!
May 27th, 2012
8:11 am
I hear you Ray.
Hawks have to make the trade.
Blockbuster time.
here we go.
dap01
May 27th, 2012
8:44 am
The Hawks will have no shot at winning a championship if:
1. The ASG fills our coaching staff with the least expensive options possible
2. If the GM’s role is to only save money
3. If we sell our draft picks for cash
4. If we draft with the intent of never letting them play
5. If JJ continues his rapid decline
6. If Al Hortford spends another offseason without building his body
7. If the roster is filled out with the Collins of the world
The fans of the Hawks really have nothing. We have one boarderline superstar and he wants out.