Atlanta Hawks: On Josh Smith’s future
Before Josh Smith started his summer vacation, he was asked about the possibility of signing a contract extension with the Hawks.
“I can’t get extended,” Smith said. “They didn’t give me the money; I had to go get it. That’s something I have to play it out and see how it goes from there.”
Two things stand out about that statement. The first is that Smith, who presumably got the info from his agent, is wrong about his contract not being eligible for an extension.
I looked at Larry Coon’s CBA FAQ and could see no reason why Smith is not eligible for an extension. It’s been at least three years since he signed the deal, it’s never been renegotiated and it doesn’t include an opt-in. I checked with Coon and he confirmed the Hawks can extend Smith’s deal (they actually have been able to do so since August).
But the more interesting aspect of Smith’s statement is his allusion to having to “go get” his contract. He’s referring, of course, to the offer sheet he signed with Memphis in 2008, which Atlanta subsequently matched. (The Hawks can thank the Grizzlies for being able to keep Smith with a reasonable deal.)
It bothers Smith he had to create a market for himself to get a satisfactory contract from the Hawks (though at least he didn’t have to leave the country like Josh Childress). Smith’s feelings were amplified when Al Horford got an extension before becoming a restricted free agent. So add that 2008 contract dance to Smith’s list of grievances with the Hawks.
The question now is whether Smith can be persuaded to sign an extension with the Hawks. My educated guess is Smith won’t do it. The Hawks may be able to make Smith feel more appreciated with their public comments, but what can can do about Smith’s main gripe, that they aren’t committed to winning a championship?
It seems unlikely the Hawks will even spend the full mid-level on a free agent. Remember what happened after Smith, Horford and Joe Johnson called on the Hawks to make some major moves during training camp? The Hawks ended up signing an assortment of minimum-salaried free agents, with two of those players on non-guaranteed deals.
Nor do trades look like a very promising way to placate Smith. Any deal that involves sending away Horford could leave as many holes as it covers. If trading Johnson is possible, it almost certainly means taking back another burdensome contract.
Zaza Pachulia and Jeff Teague are assets because they are productive players with reasonable contracts. But those are also good reasons to keep them. As for Marvin Williams, there hasn’t been a market for him for going on three years now.
The irony is that one of the best ways for the Hawks to bring in a major piece is to trade Smith. His production, experience and expiring contract make him an attractive target. So does the sense that he’s still yet to fully reach his potential, though that’s a reality that cuts both ways for the Hawks.
Are the Hawks beyond hoping Smith can become a superstar for them? How much is he worth? If the Hawks don’t think they can persuade Smith to commit beyond next season, do they aggressively try to trade him before the deadline or risk losing him for nothing next summer?
I’m genuinely interested to see how all that plays out. The Hawks have a recent history of overvaluing their own players. Michael Gearon Jr. does have a deep appreciation for Smith, even if Smith doesn’t think Gearon or his partners have done enough to show it.
For his part, Smith deflected questions about his standing trade request, noting that he could be fined for talking about it. But he didn’t sound as if he expects to be traded in the offseason.
“All I know is I have one more year on my contract so I will definitely be here,” he said. “I just have to go into the offseason to better myself and do whatever I have to do to help this ballclub. I was an Atlanta Hawk after the trade deadline and I’m one now, so I have to look at some of the things I can do to help my basketball team win ballgames, especially in the postseason.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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1,015 comments Add your comment
Sugar Ray
May 25th, 2012
4:30 pm
Who would you rather have on the Hawks: Russell Westbrook or James Harden?
Your answers will say a lot about what you value from a player/team concept.
Supreme Grand Poobah
May 25th, 2012
4:30 pm
Rod from College Park
May 25th, 2012
4:16 pm
“But from a basketball perspective and wanting to remove distractions and selfishness from a locker room, you take Horford.”
Please inform me what distractions and selfishness you witnessed in the locker room? So the best rebounder, best defender, and one of the top assist men on the team is selfish?
You’re kidding right? Best brick-layer, best momentum buster, best whiner. Where does he come up with this “they should have done a better job promoting me for all-star” crap? Try doing something for yourself loser.
Glenn
May 25th, 2012
4:32 pm
Dead on right on Jeff Teague . He has developed a sweet game & is a legit NBA point guard . The Hawks have just made to many front office blunders . I woundn’t mind if Sund left . Signing Marvin to an extension & the JJ supermax were awful . I know it falls on Billy Knight but taking Marvin Williams over CPIII was as terrible as any draft move in the NBA in recent memory . The only decision should have been whether to draft Paul or Deron Williams .
cp
May 25th, 2012
4:34 pm
So not having a pure point guard is the reason Josh continues to take those long 2’s, shoot 3’s, and push the rock on the break? Oh ok I guess so then.
Supreme Grand Poobah
May 25th, 2012
4:34 pm
Sugar Ray @ 4:23 – You know logic has no place on this blog. They’d rather have a more “athletic” guy taking shots from way beyond his range, yelling cuz he thinks the PG is taking some of his shots from him than a guy that plays to his strengths and shoots over 50%
Rick James
May 25th, 2012
4:34 pm
I just dont understand why people keep blasting Josh.The third best player on this team has a max contract which makes him impossible to trade which concerns me more than Josh Smith.Josh needs to listen to his coaches instead of his daddy sitting courtside yelling at him to take those crazy shots. Translation- He’s never had a strong coach and he needs one.You dont find those at the bottom of the pay scale.
Ra'mon
May 25th, 2012
4:35 pm
Guys, this is the trade I would make, and its a gamble (as all trades are). However I believe it would be worth it and accepted.
Atlanta gets:
Demarcus Cousins
Jason Thompson
And Sac Kings 1st round Pick
Sac gets:
Josh Smith
Al Horford
And Atlanta’s 2nd round pick.
The Maloofs need some box office draw because they’re still trying to find an arena fund or a new city to play in. I believe Josh and Al INSTANTLY puts them in playoff contention with Evans and Fredette. And the Maloofs know if they put an interesting product on the court, the fans in Sacramento will once again start to come out in waves. And they are willing to hire the big name coach like Van Gundy to coach those guys into the playoffs.
The Hawks should do it because I really believe that would be a top 5 pick they get in return. And with the pick you draft the player that has the biggest superstar upside to go along side Joe, Teague, your new big man in Cousins, Thompson, and Zaza. If it turns out to be the 2nd pick, you take Drummond, and roll out the new twin towers, let them clean up Joe and Teague’s misses while learning how to dominate the lane. On two occasions, I’ve seen Cousins outplay Bynum. I’m not saying he’s better than Bynum, of course. But the same thing that happened to McGee when he got out of a losing atmosphere could happen to Cousins. And with Thompson and Zaza you will upgrade to having the best big man depth in the eastern conference.
Teague – Joe – sf – Cousins – Drummond (or Thomas Robinson if it ends up being 5th pick).
While the Hawks may not win as many games next season. In two years, you’re fielding a hard match up for anyone in the playoffs.
Slimjr
May 25th, 2012
4:35 pm
If memory serves, did not All Whatever give MC some lame excuse a couple of seasons ago that he was playing out of position even though he’s been to two AllStar games and been voted to the All Whatever squad playing the 5? Or was it his dad Tito? Or Both? Hmmmmm
Is this the same guy that cant protect the rim even though he’s an AllStar at the 5?
Yea team guy…Whatever……
Sugar Ray
May 25th, 2012
4:38 pm
The most important thing no one has brought up: For those who want to extend his deal, as Josh gets older, he will continue to lose his explosiveness which means he’ll rely MORE on his jumper. Horford has always had a mid range game, one of the league’s best bigs in that capacity, so he will age well and have a long productive career if he stays healthy. But Josh isn’t the same explosive athlete he was 3-4 years ago, so what kind of player will Josh be in 2-3 years when he can’t dunk and block like he used to? Just think about it. Is that how you guys want to invest another big contract?
Supreme Grand Poobah
May 25th, 2012
4:38 pm
Rick James – Does he need a coach to tell him when to go to the potty? If he hasn’t figured it out for himself by now, he never will regardless of who the coach is.
Contract News May 25, 2012 — Contract Future
May 25th, 2012
4:39 pm
[...] Atlanta Hawks: On Josh Smith’s future – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Ra'mon
May 25th, 2012
4:40 pm
Sugar Ray, you realize James Harden game is the same game of that of Joe Johnson before he the mask right? Look at an old game of Phoenix where Joe goes off, and you will see Harden.
Either way, which one does someone prefer depends on your situation. Westbrook is the same type of player with the same ability as Derrick Rose. The only difference is Rose doesn’t have Durant on his team for the media to count his shot attempts. So if you put Westbrook on the Bulls in place of Rose, you’ll get better results for the Bulls than if you put Harden on the Bulls in place of Rose. At the same time, if you are a team similar to Dallas or the Spurs, you’d prefer Harden over Westbrook. So that’s a very vague question.
Ra'mon
May 25th, 2012
4:43 pm
Slimjr, Al’s best position is the 5. Yet, Al will never make another all star game again unless Dwight heads west and not to Brooklyn. D12 and Hibbert will be the new Ewing and Mourning of big men in the east. And there’s no way the media starve Hawks will be able to market Al enough to change that. With this postseason the Pacers and Sixers most assuredly just secured majority of the Hawks national television games on ESPN.
Supreme Grand Poobah
May 25th, 2012
4:45 pm
You know, I hope we do keep Smith. For the next five years we’ll get to hear new and funny excuses as to why the Hawks can’t go deeper into the playoffs. It’s never Josh’s fault. It’s always someone else’s fault.
Slimjr
May 25th, 2012
4:45 pm
Sugar Ray that question you present {pick between a talented starter or a bench player} is like that left hook you missed on, coming up empty…
Rod from College Park
May 25th, 2012
4:45 pm
“You’re kidding right? Best brick-layer, best momentum buster, best whiner. Where does he come up with this “they should have done a better job promoting me for all-star” crap? Try doing something for yourself loser.”
No need for me to respond. I see where you are coming from.
Sugar Ray
May 25th, 2012
4:46 pm
“Sugar Ray, you realize James Harden game is the same game of that of Joe Johnson before he the mask right? Look at an old game of Phoenix where Joe goes off, and you will see Harden.”
No not even close. Harden is more like a young Manu Ginobilli, He’s arguably the deadliest pick n roll player in the league, and also one of the most efficient at getting to the free throw line, that’s why he will have nights of scoring 25 while only taking 12 shots. Great outside shooter also. Joe never got to the FT line that often and has never been an elite pick n roll ballhandler.
Slimjr
May 25th, 2012
4:47 pm
Ra’mon great points.. All Whatever overrated allstar run is ova…….Poor fans…..lol
Buddy Grizzard
May 25th, 2012
4:48 pm
You guys really want to bring back the corpse of Jason Collins? Isn’t it time to let go?
Marcus
May 25th, 2012
4:48 pm
This years’ draft will be interesting …
If we select a G to groom for JJ’s eventual departure or replace voids created by the vets whose contracts may not be renewed (Heinrich, Green, Pargo, Stack), it lets us know that ASG is half-way convinced to ride the J-Smoove saga out.
If we select a SF or C in the 1st round, then it gets murky. Lot of options to free up personnel via trade (Marvin or Smoove) and slide Horford to PF, and maybe Zaza to starting C.
Rod from College Park
May 25th, 2012
4:49 pm
“Also, for others who have mentioned it, the lack of PG excuse doesn’t work. Teague had a very good season in his first year as a starter, yet the Hawks still had issues on offense because the same guys keep going ISO and taking bad shots. Offense has always been the Hawks downfall in the postseason.”
We actually agree that the offense is the problem, however I tend to blame the coach for the offensive woes. I have not seen us run a decent play in the playoffs in 3 years. We have no offensive system except ISO, which leads to bad shots from everyone.
Sugar Ray
May 25th, 2012
4:49 pm
“Sugar Ray that question you present {pick between a talented starter or a bench player} is like that left hook you missed on, coming up empty…”
Doesn’t matter if he starts, Harden is a Top 5 shoot guard right now at least.
If anyone disagrees, I’d like to see the names you would take ahead of him
Just Joe
May 25th, 2012
4:50 pm
I would have no problem with Josh getting $63M over the next 5 years (that’s his 2012/13 salary plus a 4 yr extension with 5% raises each year). I want this guy to retire a Hawk. Next, I want to get him a good coach and get rid of “dead weight” teammates like Marvin Williams.
Ra'mon
May 25th, 2012
4:52 pm
Sugar Ray, you said Joe has never been an elite pick n roll ball handler. Do you realize Joe Johnson was Phoenix back up point guard when he was there NOT Barbosa? And Joe was brought here to be the PG. Before Joe got in the weight room and added muscle, he was very good with the duties of being a ball handler. And before that injury, Joe used to attack the rim a lot. Go look at some of the box scores of Joe in Phoenix. He would score over 20 points in similar fashion.
JOE
May 25th, 2012
4:53 pm
Bash Horford all you want but there is a reason the coaches put him on the All Star team while Josh waits and whines about being left out. Guys like Josh don’t deserve to make it because of their attitude and their negatives outweighs their positives.
Slimjr
May 25th, 2012
4:57 pm
How many of those coaches have won championships in the last 30 years? Maybe 6 or 7 of em..[talking Head Coaches]…
Yea they know it all……
Sugar Ray
May 25th, 2012
5:00 pm
Since you insist on comparing Joe and Harden, here you go (both at age 22, 3rd season):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=johnsjo02&y1=2004&p2=hardeja01&y2=2012
ryan
May 25th, 2012
5:02 pm
So will this be like when Wilkins got traded for Danny Manning i just have feeling the Hawks and Sund will screw this up like do every other deal .
JOE
May 25th, 2012
5:06 pm
Well slimjr, you said Horford didn’t have an impact, so if you are right, we now know they couldn’t get out of the first round led by Josh against an old as hell Celtics team that had no bench. If that’s all the Josh-led Hawks can do, the leader doesn’t sound like much of leader to me.
Buddy Grizzard
May 25th, 2012
5:07 pm
Wow no comparison… Harden is a beast.
JOE
May 25th, 2012
5:08 pm
Don’t compare Nique to Josh.
Nique is an all time great, in the Hall of Fame.
Josh can barely make his case to get into the All Star Game.
Sugar Ray
May 25th, 2012
5:10 pm
I’m still waiting for someone to name 5 shooting guards they would take over Harden right now.
Better yet, I’ll make it easier. Name three SGs better than Harden right now.
Ra'mon
May 25th, 2012
5:11 pm
Super Ray, how are those numbers not very similar? Joe averaged more assists while Harden averaged more free throw attempt. Either way they both have an ‘old man’s’ game.
Ra'mon
May 25th, 2012
5:12 pm
Kobe – Wade – Joe are better than Harden right now. But he is number 4 on my list.
Ra'mon
May 25th, 2012
5:14 pm
The leader Josh was playing on one leg after game one. And he still managed to average a double double, while having to guard KG instead of Al guarding KG.
Slimjr
May 25th, 2012
5:14 pm
JOE you said that..I said that the Hawks missed ZaZa more than All Whatever..
ZaZa did an excellent job filling in for the overrated AllStar…He’s a ton more physical too!
KevinM
May 25th, 2012
5:15 pm
Marcus, if you want an idea on who we will draft, just look at the prospects ability to play more than one position. This management team along with LD all want to brag about our versatility, yet we get less of a basketball player.
So, don’t be surprised when you hear the Hawks select a power forward. It won’t be what we need, but it will be who can play C, PF and maybe SF.
Don’t let any draft pick surprise you. After all, we did draft a PF last year in Benson, only to dump him and say we wasted that pick.
All the crack staff assistants Sund supposedly has, and we can’t get one draft pick right?
Slimjr
May 25th, 2012
5:16 pm
Try naming 3 centers or 3 power forwards who are more talented than the Allstar playing out of position?
KevinM
May 25th, 2012
5:17 pm
On his callup to the Warriors last year, guess who he beat out?
“In 19 D-League games this season, Benson averaged 15.1 points and 7.6 rebounds to go with 1.4 blocks per game. It wasn’t until after Friday night’s performance of 17 points, 11 rebounds and three blocks, however, that the Warriors decided to tell him they planned to call him up (he was matching up with Brian Butch, a fellow call-up candidate, for what it’s worth).”
Slimjr
May 25th, 2012
5:18 pm
Big Al better known as Mr. Escort…..
Sugar Ray
May 25th, 2012
5:22 pm
Ramon, you would honestly take Joe over Harden? Even if the money was equal?
Other than post-up, what does Joe do better than Harden right now in terms of skillset?
Sugar Ray
May 25th, 2012
5:34 pm
Also here is Josh Smith’s shooting chart for the 2011-2012 season:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=smithjo03&year_id=2012
Two areas to look at: How badly he shot anywhere outside 3 feet from the rim, and his shooting stats vs Boston this season.
Just Joe
May 25th, 2012
5:35 pm
KevinM…that draft pick will be 6′7″ 240lb SF/PF Draymond Green. He’ll take Marvin’s spot at SF within the first month. Fills up every category on the stat sheet. Great court vision and feel for the game. He & Ivan Johnson will bring it every night. He’ll have trouble defending the quicker SF’s, but unlike Marvin, this kid has a back to the basket game to even things out on the other end of the court. No more putting your best defender on Joe and sending a skinny, little SG to go stand in the corner by Marvin.
Jamaaliver
May 25th, 2012
5:36 pm
Smoove vs. Horford: The Age old debate.
Josh Smith is the more talented player.
Al Horford is the more consistent player.
Josh has a higher ceiling and a lower floor in regards to what he brings. But he’s a knucklehead.
Al is the steadier player, better shooter, but is more limited.
Josh blocks shots of players he’s not guarding. But he can’t guard PFs not named Bosh.
Horford is the better post defender, as he’s bigger and stronger than Smoove, but blocks fewer shots.
Michael Cunningham
May 25th, 2012
5:39 pm
@KevinM: “MC, is everything on hold waiting for Sund to make a decision? Aren’t deals able to be formulated after the draft lottery?”
deals can be made right now if they involve teams not in the playoffs. that ’s pretty rare, though. the Hawks just now finished all of their exit interviews. Sund is to meet with owners this weekend and a decision is expected early next week.
Just Joe
May 25th, 2012
5:42 pm
Draymond Green’s stats:
Regular season = 16.2 pts, 10.6 rebs, 3.8 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.5 steals, on 45% shooting, 39% from 3, in 33 minutes a night.
In the tournament = 16 pts, 12 rebs, 5 assists, 1 block, and 1 steal per game.
Michael Cunningham
May 25th, 2012
5:45 pm
@Ra’mon: “MC, how could trading Horford leave as many holes?”
how “could” it? do i really need to answer that? i’m not saying he’s irreplaceable, but you make it sound like he’s just a guy.
Michael Cunningham
May 25th, 2012
5:46 pm
@Rick James: “Josh needs to listen to his coaches instead of his daddy sitting courtside yelling at him to take those crazy shots.”
that’s funny.
Michael Cunningham
May 25th, 2012
5:48 pm
@Buddy: “You guys really want to bring back the corpse of Jason Collins? Isn’t it time to let go?”
that’s even funnier.
Michael Cunningham
May 25th, 2012
5:49 pm
@KevinM: “Marcus, if you want an idea on who we will draft, just look at the prospects ability to play more than one position. This management team along with LD all want to brag about our versatility, yet we get less of a basketball player.
So, don’t be surprised when you hear the Hawks select a power forward. It won’t be what we need, but it will be who can play C, PF and maybe SF.”
another funny one. blog people on fire today.