Atlanta Hawks: On Josh Smith’s future
Before Josh Smith started his summer vacation, he was asked about the possibility of signing a contract extension with the Hawks.
“I can’t get extended,” Smith said. “They didn’t give me the money; I had to go get it. That’s something I have to play it out and see how it goes from there.”
Two things stand out about that statement. The first is that Smith, who presumably got the info from his agent, is wrong about his contract not being eligible for an extension.
I looked at Larry Coon’s CBA FAQ and could see no reason why Smith is not eligible for an extension. It’s been at least three years since he signed the deal, it’s never been renegotiated and it doesn’t include an opt-in. I checked with Coon and he confirmed the Hawks can extend Smith’s deal (they actually have been able to do so since August).
But the more interesting aspect of Smith’s statement is his allusion to having to “go get” his contract. He’s referring, of course, to the offer sheet he signed with Memphis in 2008, which Atlanta subsequently matched. (The Hawks can thank the Grizzlies for being able to keep Smith with a reasonable deal.)
It bothers Smith he had to create a market for himself to get a satisfactory contract from the Hawks (though at least he didn’t have to leave the country like Josh Childress). Smith’s feelings were amplified when Al Horford got an extension before becoming a restricted free agent. So add that 2008 contract dance to Smith’s list of grievances with the Hawks.
The question now is whether Smith can be persuaded to sign an extension with the Hawks. My educated guess is Smith won’t do it. The Hawks may be able to make Smith feel more appreciated with their public comments, but what can can do about Smith’s main gripe, that they aren’t committed to winning a championship?
It seems unlikely the Hawks will even spend the full mid-level on a free agent. Remember what happened after Smith, Horford and Joe Johnson called on the Hawks to make some major moves during training camp? The Hawks ended up signing an assortment of minimum-salaried free agents, with two of those players on non-guaranteed deals.
Nor do trades look like a very promising way to placate Smith. Any deal that involves sending away Horford could leave as many holes as it covers. If trading Johnson is possible, it almost certainly means taking back another burdensome contract.
Zaza Pachulia and Jeff Teague are assets because they are productive players with reasonable contracts. But those are also good reasons to keep them. As for Marvin Williams, there hasn’t been a market for him for going on three years now.
The irony is that one of the best ways for the Hawks to bring in a major piece is to trade Smith. His production, experience and expiring contract make him an attractive target. So does the sense that he’s still yet to fully reach his potential, though that’s a reality that cuts both ways for the Hawks.
Are the Hawks beyond hoping Smith can become a superstar for them? How much is he worth? If the Hawks don’t think they can persuade Smith to commit beyond next season, do they aggressively try to trade him before the deadline or risk losing him for nothing next summer?
I’m genuinely interested to see how all that plays out. The Hawks have a recent history of overvaluing their own players. Michael Gearon Jr. does have a deep appreciation for Smith, even if Smith doesn’t think Gearon or his partners have done enough to show it.
For his part, Smith deflected questions about his standing trade request, noting that he could be fined for talking about it. But he didn’t sound as if he expects to be traded in the offseason.
“All I know is I have one more year on my contract so I will definitely be here,” he said. “I just have to go into the offseason to better myself and do whatever I have to do to help this ballclub. I was an Atlanta Hawk after the trade deadline and I’m one now, so I have to look at some of the things I can do to help my basketball team win ballgames, especially in the postseason.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,015 comments Add your comment
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
10:51 am
And to “Billy Knight Jr” who said “Marvin is a reliable shooter” needs to get his eyes checked ASAP!!
Marvin’s jump shot is playground reliable that’s is all!
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
10:54 am
28-47 is all that needs to be said.. No shot at winning anything but a 5 dollar foot long…..
northcyde
May 28th, 2012
11:11 am
Ra’mon
May 28th, 2012
12:34 am
O’brien, that’s what I thought. So if that’s the case, Josh shot better as the season went on. And I don’t include the playoffs, because when he was healthy (game 1 – 38.5% from mid range) he shot pretty well, and we all know everyone’s field goal percentage goes down against Boston’s (ask Joe Johnson or even Lebron). Also it seemed to me Josh was shooting his free throws extremely well in the playoffs (76.2%). The thing about Josh is look at the Hawks record whenever he scored over 20 points. Not many players can go from being a number 3 option to a number 1 option and still not sacrifice wins when scoring. But knowing that the Hawks are extremely more efficient when Josh scores over 20 (even when Joe was injured), leaves me believing he would be willing to stay if he was made the focal point of the offense, and the Hawks brought in some more players who are willing to hustle and go after loose balls besides he, Zaza, and Ivan. I’m not saying the Hawks will win a championship with him as the lead player. But honestly the Hawks won’t win a championship with anyone on the roster as the lead player.
********************
If this is the case, why does it matter so much which guy goes? Joe or Josh?
The facts are still the facts. Josh is the one who is about to be at the end of his contract. Josh is the one who is most tradeable because of this. Josh is the one who ( behind the scenes ) has asked or heavily implied that he wants to be traded. Josh is the one who doesn’t believe this organization is committed to win a title, so he wants to go.
This is why all of the talk is about Josh leaving or being a trade asset, and not JJ, Al, or anybody else. And even if people continue to dismiss it, if we lost Josh, we have Al Horford to replace him. We’d simply give Al more responsibility ( much like we did with Josh ), and see if he can handle it.
What MC or somebody in the media needs to find out for sure, is if Josh can be extended this summer or not. If the answer is YES, the Hawks need to come up with a number that Josh will be happy with, and deal with the rest of the financial issues after that. If the answer is NO, the Hawks simply have to deal with the consequences this summer or next summer.
Unfortunately for the Hawks, the smart move for Josh, is to do exactly what Joe Johnson did . . . test his worth on the open market and become an unrestricted free agent.
When JJ turned down that 4 year – 60 million extension before the 2009 season, JJ and his agent wasn’t worried one bit about what type of deal he would get when that contract expired. They still weren’t worried at the end of that season, despite JJ playing like complete garbage in that Orlando playoff series. They both got indication that demand for him would be so high, that he’d get major money from somebody. This forced the Hawks to either let him go, or overpay to keep him. They chose to do the latter.
2 years later, they’ll find themselves in the same situation with Josh if he’s not able to be extended this summer. Does 4 years – 60 million secure Josh in ATL? I say NO. I’m using that number because that was reportedly the maximum the Hawks could offer Joe Johnson before his contract was up. That number may be even less for Josh, seeing that he wasn’t on a max contract during his 2nd contract like JJ was . . and because of the new CBA.
And if he desires to get out of ATL at the end of the season, the Hawks may be left with nothing but a gigantic trade exception that they may or may not use. That’s why the Hawks did what they did with JJ, and why they acted early in the case of Horford.
And I think the only reason why Horford signed his deal, was because of the uncertainty of how much he’d get with a new CBA in place. So he took his 5 year – 60 million deal and ran with it instead of testing the FA market last summer. Josh is simply 3rd in line to get his deal. And that may be bad for the Hawks.
KevinM
May 28th, 2012
11:22 am
We will never find out what value Josh would bring back to us.
Sund doesn’t have the knowledge to get it done. He is probably asking for current all-stars in return.
Wait til next year, Hawks fans, when the Knicks eliminate the Hawks from the 1st round…..Woody gets his revenge!
High-sider
May 28th, 2012
11:29 am
“…In his prime, Manu played the passing lanes as well as anyone in the league, and while he may not be big enough to body someone out of their spots, he has quick hands and rips his man on occasion too. On offense, he’s an all-purpose player. Facilitator, scorer, spot0up shooter, whatever you need him to be…” – Sugar Ray
Manu Ginobili is a dirty player. He holds, grabs, kicks, flops, slaps, complains and whines. The NBA and NBA franchises are desperate for white superstars especially American-born white superstars. Ginobili gets a lot of undeserved calls just like Dirk Nowitzki; Nowitzki is [German] white and Ginobili is [Argentine or Argentinian] white. I’ve heard Colin Cowherd say on his ESPN [radio/talk] show called “The Herd,” that NBA team executives are desperate for a [starting] white point guard but said those NBA team executives did not want their [individual] names disclosed, acknowledged or made known. This is partly why I thought Rick Sund chose to keep [Kirk] Hinrich over [Jamal] Crawford for the 2011-2012 regular season. Ginobili is a good player but he [Ginobili] is “pumped up” or “hyped up” by the [sports] media and he doesn’t have HOF career stats.
I really don’t give a damn if this [post] upsets some of you bloggers but that’s my opinion and I’m “sticking” to it. I also feel that Skip Bayless, Colin Cowherd, Merril Hoge, Mark Schlereth and others give their analyses, opinions, criticisms and commentaries of black athletes with or from a pro-white, anti-black perspective or philosophy.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html
Clarification
May 28th, 2012
11:47 am
“This is partly why I thought Rick Sund chose to keep [Kirk] Hinrich over [Jamal] Crawford for the 2011-2012 regular season.”
WTF????? You’ve said this a number of times, and I still don’t get it.
Hinrich was already under contract for this year. He wasn’t “re-signed” instead of Jamal. There was no choice to make between them. When we traded for Hinrich, we traded for his contract, which had two years (10-11, and 11-12) left.
Tell me exactly how you think Sund “chose” between Kirk and Jamal, when Kirk was under contract, and Jamal was not. I think you are confused about this.
O"Brien
May 28th, 2012
12:10 pm
Sugar Ray,
Also, Marvin hasn’t lived up to his draft spot, but he has evolved into a reliable spot up shooter in the corner and on the wing..
Marvin came up big in the last 2 games of the playoffs, but let’s not forget he also went 5-23 combined in the first 4 games. And during the regular season, he missed a lot of open 3’s during crunch time. imo, Marvin tightens up during crunch time.
If Marvin from game 5 and 6 of the playoffs would show up consistently, this team would be so much better. But Marvin is not reliable enough, especially at $7.5mil.
bama52
May 28th, 2012
12:20 pm
J Smih, Al Horford and J Teague are keepers for the Hawks. They are the foundation for a championship team. Everybody work hard in the off season,with no injuries this team can play great basketball. We have a good draft pick use it wisely. Joe and Marvin can be traded. Zaza need’s to stay also.
Grandad
May 28th, 2012
12:24 pm
High-Sider
It does not upset me if that is how you truly feel ?
But you are wrong about Ginobili !
Your point about white Americans lost me with your logic;
when you referenced a Euro & a South American.
For I assumed your point to be U.S. Americans.
I can understand your disdain for the media,
especially espn,
as I hold them in contempt myself,
but to make an argument one should make it
on the strength of the argument itself;
not, the innocent bystander.
What I mean is:
if your debate is High-Sider v espn; then attack espn.
Do not disparage Ginobili for the sake of winning your gripe
against espn, Cowherd, Bayless, Hodge, et al.
Please allow me this example;
I would have parents come in to talk with me.
I had guidelines set up beforehand;
“one being we would only talk about their child`’.
invariably, the parent would devolve into:
“well Johnny So&So does this or that, what about my son Jimmy`’;
to which I simply reminded them of my rule:
we were there to talk about their son … not Johnny So&So.
I hope that little story made some sense.
Please;
if you wish to bring up race, fine.
If your gripe is the media, then focus on the media.
But, once again, your wrong about Ginobili.
Listen and listen carefully.
I am as white as they come.
So white as to be practically transparent.
I say, anything and everything that comes to mind.
But;
I am as far from being racist as any white man out here.
I`ve stood up for my principles, and for my players [minorities].
When I say stood up for – I`ve put it on the line.
So;
anybody comes on here and comes back at me, ain`t got a clue !
G-dad the renaissance man
Sugar Ray
May 28th, 2012
12:27 pm
I guess I have to teach another lesson. OK, follow me closely:
Atlanta had the 5th highest 3pt FG% in the league this season…
And Marvin Williams made 39% of his threes, second highest on the team behind Willie Green…
Leaguewide, he ranked ahead of guys like Durant, CP3, Jason Terry, Anthony Morrow, Dirk, Paul Pierce, and one percentage point behind Steve Nash…and this was the second consecutive year that his 3pt FG% has gone up, even though his attempts have also increased…
So that’s should be the end of that foolish debate.
ATLien
May 28th, 2012
12:28 pm
The ignorance it seems the entire city of Atlanta has towards Josh Smith is really incredible. They love soft as putty Horford, but hate Smith. I hope you idiots are all happy next year when Smith leaves (who could blame him for not wanting to play for a crappy franchise with even worse fanbase) and the Hawks are a 35 win team with zero hope.
Sugar Ray
May 28th, 2012
12:35 pm
High-sider,
If you don’t believe Manu has a Hall of Fame resume, I guess you don’t know much about his career or the history of the sport itself.
Ra'mon
May 28th, 2012
12:44 pm
Northcyde, for Josh it is not about the money mainly. Its more about if management is going to do what it takes to improve the roster significantly. Josh sees how well the Falcons do with marketing and sales, although the Hawks core have experienced more playoff success. And I think he truly feels with a couple of roster moves fans would come out to support the Hawks again. Atlanta bring in Dwight Howard, and they would end up selling out most games. Or if they brought in a Steve Nash or D. Williams, it would raise the value and marketability of the Hawks current players because they would be able to catch and attack more often than isolation.
Ra'mon
May 28th, 2012
12:51 pm
Grandad, the thing for me is I believe Joe take more bad shots than Josh. I also believe Joe make more poor decisions than Josh does. Majority of the times Josh always pass out of a double team, and he makes the right pass at the right time majority of those times. Routinely, Joe waits until he gets trapped and there are less than 4 seconds on the shot clock before trying to make a pass. Joe waits for the defense to get set or adjust to him having the ball before he attacks, and that leads to bad shots and turnovers. That’s why it seems the Hawks win at a higher percentage when Josh is the focal point compared to Joe.
Sugar Ray
May 28th, 2012
12:51 pm
You won’t be winning any playoff series with Josh as your #1 option, it’s that simple. He’s not untouchable, better players have been dealt before.
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
Its a love Fest!
….
BKJr rallying for one of the worst picks ever..
Comparing this bust to Durant is like swinging that left hook and coming up empty….
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
12:57 pm
All whatever as your 2 or 3 scoring option= blowouts
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
12:58 pm
Joe has got to go….
Should have let Larry go West first…
Sugar Ray
May 28th, 2012
12:59 pm
I am critical of Joe, but the little explosiveness he did have is all but gone now with age, so he can’t be a #1 option carrying a team through a playoff series anymore, which means the Hawks need a more unselfish, team-oriented approach than anything, not to hand over the keys to another inefficient player because guarantees that their offense with be their downfall once again.
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
1:01 pm
If you rely on All Whatever as a scoring option in crunch time after Josh has left the building expect a 1st rd exit again….
Sugar Ray
May 28th, 2012
1:05 pm
Slimjr,
You really do have a man crush on Josh. I think that’s cute lol, good for you.
You keep bringing up Horford when no one else did because it’s a sleight to your man crush.
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
1:05 pm
All Whatever is what he is casual role player and nothing more on a Championship team..
On this team he and his fans thinks he’s potentially a whole lot more…. Yawn…..
northcyde
May 28th, 2012
1:07 pm
Ra’mon . . you say it isn’t about the money? Well take a look at this:
The reason why a 4 year – 60 million extension would be turned down by Josh, is because if the Hawks thought he were worth 15 million a year, Josh would simply wait until the end of the season to get a 5 year – 75 million deal
That’s easy economics.
It’s just a lot of issues that will come into play next summer.
********************
Here’s a scenario:
The Hawks express that they want to sign Josh to a 4 yr – 60 million deal, but is prepared to offer him that 5th year, making it a 5 year – 76 million deal.
The Brooklyn Nets, desperate to bring ANY named player to the squad because of the loss of Deron Williams, come up with a plan to throw MAX contracts at both James Harden and Josh Smith in the summer of 2013.
Because of the Hawks financial situation, they would want for Josh to sign a normal contract with the maximum 7.5% increase in raises.
On a 5 year – 76 million deal ( actually 75.9 million ), you’re talking about a starting salary of 13.2 million ( exactly what he’s due to make next year ). Then you increase the base salary by 7.5% of that year, every year ( which is an increase of $990,000 a year )
Year 1: 13.2 mill
Year 2: 14.19 mill
Year 3: 15.18 mill
Year 4: 16.17 mill
Year 5: 17.16 mill
If I’m reading this right . . . if Brooklyn goes “All-In” to try to get both Harden and Smith, Harden would get a 1st year salary of around 12.9 million ( because he hasn’t been in the league for 6 years yet ), while Josh would get a 1st year salary of 15.5 million, ( because he’d be in his 9th year in the league )
If this is the case, this is what a 4 year Max contract with Brooklyn could look like with 7.5% raises:
Year 1: 15.5 mill
Year 2: 16.663 mill
Year 3: 17.825 mill
Year 4: 18.988 mill
Total: 4 years – approx 69 million
If the Hawks maxed out Josh Smith, this same scale would apply, with a 5th year being added to Josh’s deal
Year 5: 20.151 million
Total: 5 years – approx 89 million
So honestly, even if the Hawks could extend Smith, there will be no incentive on his part to sign a deal like that, if he knew other teams coveted him once he became an unrestricted free agent.
Sugar Ray
May 28th, 2012
1:08 pm
Why is Horford on your mind so much? Josh is gone, there’s nothing you can do about his hurt wittle feelings. You love him, but that’s how it is.
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
1:11 pm
ATLien
May 28th, 2012
12:28 pm
“The ignorance it seems the entire city of Atlanta has towards Josh Smith is really incredible. They love soft as putty Horford, but hate Smith”
Interesting point….
He will be missed once All Whatever has to step up and replace his production..Good luck with that one…
Sugar Ray
May 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
Josh would be a role player on a title team, 3rd or 4th option at best. Mostly cuts and put backs, which is role player stuff. I mean, Popovich wouldn’t be dumb enough to think he could carry them to the title like some fans do, haha. This isn’t hard to figure out.
Sugar Ray
May 28th, 2012
1:15 pm
Can’t replace Josh? They are both 18pt-10 reb type players at their peak, Josh blocks a few more shots, but Al is more efficient on offense. It’s basically a wash but one isn’t whining about all stars nubs and trade demands haha.
northcyde
May 28th, 2012
1:16 pm
The other danger is this.
Remember how we got JJ to come to ATL? We did it by offering him what was essentially a signing bonus. We basically gave him around 10% – 15% of his total earnings of his contract upfront ( the signing bonus ) , making the amount he made in that 1st year in ATL to be 20 million ( new base salary + the signing bonus ). That’s why even when Phoenix came close to matching our overall deal, JJ still chose to come to ATL. It was a loophole that Phoenix used to lure Quentin Richardson away from the Clippers to Phoenix. And we turned around and did the same thing to them.
So what if Brooklyn did this?
The maximum “signing bonus” is 15% of the total contract. In a re-calculated Max contract with Brooklyn, Smith could receive a signing bonus of 10.35 million in Year 1, in addition to his re-calculated 1st year deal.
Once again, If I’m reading this right, Josh’s salary with a signing bonus would have to be re-calculated.
10.35 million bonus ( divided by ) 4 years = 2.588 million
So his new 1st year base salary would be 15.5 mill – 2.588 mill = approx 12.91 mill
Then you would go down the rest of his contract and subtract the pro rated signing bonus from his original base salary, to come up with his new base salary for the rest of his contract:
Year 2: 16.663 – 2.588 = 14.075 mill
Year 3: 17.825 – 2.588 = 15.237 mill
Year 4: 18.988 – 2.588 = 16.4 mill
With the signing bonus, his total contract payout is virtually the same . . . with the exception that he’d get paid somewhere around 23.26 million in that 1st year.
That still doesn’t trump the potential 5th year that he could get from the Hawks. But a power move like that from Brooklyn would FORCE the Hawks to give him that 5th year.
And in this scenario, I don’t know if a 5 year – 76 million deal over 5 years would entice Josh to stay . . over a 4 year – 69 million deal, in which he could get 23+ million in the 1st year and be the featured player on that squad.
The hell if it AIN’T about the money. This is Josh’s 3rd contract, the “big money contract”, so he’ll try to get all he can.
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
1:24 pm
Josh is 3> than All Whatever on the defensive side of the house.
Guess two rings in College riding coat tails will get you invites above more talented players..Oh well..
Sugar Ray
May 28th, 2012
1:29 pm
Look at him, still bringing up Al to defend his man crush Josh haha. You’re hilarious kid.
Sugar Ray
May 28th, 2012
1:32 pm
Also, Josh is a good weakside help shotblocker. But as far as on ball defense, they are even or I might give the small advantage to Horford, his defense of Rondo at the end of Game 5 is an example.
Ra'mon
May 28th, 2012
1:35 pm
Northcyde, what I am saying is I believe Josh is looking to be on a winning team that’s committed to the long term, even more than getting the highest salary that he can possibly get. The same way Wade and Lebron didn’t sign for the highest dollar amount that they could get, I believe Josh will be the same way for the right situation.
Rod from College Park
May 28th, 2012
1:52 pm
“Leaguewide, he ranked ahead of guys like Durant, CP3, Jason Terry, Anthony Morrow, Dirk, Paul Pierce, and one percentage point behind Steve Nash…and this was the second consecutive year that his 3pt FG% has gone up, even though his attempts have also increased…
So that’s should be the end of that foolish debate.”
You are right, that is the end of the debate. Durant shot 344 3’s this year, and Marvin shot 149. No comparison.
Rod from College Park
May 28th, 2012
1:55 pm
“Also, Josh is a good weakside help shotblocker. But as far as on ball defense, they are even or I might give the small advantage to Horford, his defense of Rondo at the end of Game 5 is an example.”
I guess that is why our coach is forced to play Josh defensively on guys like Howard, Garnett, and Duncan even when Horford in on the floor. Again, Josh was the only guy in the league who ranked in the top 20 in blocks, steals and rebounds. He was top 10 in blocks and rebounds.
northcyde
May 28th, 2012
2:14 pm
Ra’mon, don’t be fooled by what Wade and Lebron did.
Lebron made 30 million in endorsements in 2010. And that amount will only grow, especially if he wins a title. Wade made 14 million in endorsements in 2010.
The millions that they bypassed by not signing max deals with their current/former teams, is easily made up with the money they bring in off of endorsements.
Lebron made 44 million in 2010
Wade made 28 million in 2010
Plus both of them can opt out of their current contract and get even more money in 2 years. Playing together will enable both of them to make more off the court, than on the court.
I agree that Josh isn’t going to necessarily sign with whomever throws the most money at him. Just don’t expect a significant hometown discount either. Start at next season’s number ( 13.2 million ), and that’s where he’ll probably be looking to get at the minimum in that first year.
And he’d be silly not to make the Hawks sign him to a 5th year if he wants to stay here. That’s too much money to be giving up,
darrell starks
May 28th, 2012
2:20 pm
Rod from CP, I agree but the biggest ? what are the owners of the Hawks agenda.
Hawks must keep this core around and add pieces..
Marvin has 2 years left on his contract.
Josh and Zaza are on the last deal of there contract.
Right now the Hawks are at 60mill with 6 players being sign, so what should the Hawks do ?
If amensty Marvin contract that would leave them at 52mill but i believe the Owners are not trying to pay a guy if not on the team, so that leave us to believe that there stuck with Marvin for the next 2 years.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
May 28th, 2012
2:29 pm
“If this is the case, why does it matter so much which guy goes? Joe or Josh”
Because Josh is younger, better, has skills that make the game easier for teammates (particularly on D), and doesn’t have a cap-crippling deal that will prevent this team from improving. None of those things is true about Joe. The Hawks need to bring in someone better than both of them, but you’re always better off keeping the best players you can.
darrell starks
May 28th, 2012
2:32 pm
Okay let look at 2013.
Next year if the Hawks let Josh and Zaza back that would be 18mill of cap space leaving the Hawks with around 42 mill with only 4 players being sign.
TEAGUE, JOE, MARVIN, HORFORD.
Could you keep this core and go out and sign a superstar player in D12 ?
TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, MARVIN, HORFORD, D12
Would he even consider coming 2 ATL with out his buddy Josh being here.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
May 28th, 2012
2:42 pm
If some how the Hawks could figure out a way to trade Joe to a team that’s on the verge of being a championship team, and also amnesty Marvin contract, then you could see Josh coming back to the ATL with D12 signing here 2.
2013
could look like this.
TEAGUE, ? , JOSH, HORFORD, D12
This could be our big 4 in ATL.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
May 28th, 2012
2:50 pm
Sugar Ray said he’d rather have Novak over Monta/Jamal and that Marvin is reliable spot up sooter.
LOL!!!!!
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
2:57 pm
Sugar Ray should have kept the head gear on..He seems to have take to many rope-a-dope shots to the head? lol
Slimjr
May 28th, 2012
2:57 pm
[taken]^^^^
darrell starks
May 28th, 2012
3:04 pm
What good team has expiring contracts that could take on Joe contract ?
This a trade that could happen.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7r79dsp
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
May 28th, 2012
3:09 pm
Kobe is on his last leg for championship could LA take on Joe contract for Paul Gasol.
If so then ASG could amensty Paul Gasol contract with only one year remaining and go sign D12 and keep Josh for 2013.
2013
TEAGUE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD, D12
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
northcyde
May 28th, 2012
3:22 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
May 28th, 2012
2:29 pm
“If this is the case, why does it matter so much which guy goes? Joe or Josh”
Because Josh is younger, better, has skills that make the game easier for teammates (particularly on D), and doesn’t have a cap-crippling deal that will prevent this team from improving. None of those things is true about Joe. The Hawks need to bring in someone better than both of them, but you’re always better off keeping the best players you can.
*********************
And you’ll achieve that whether you keep Josh or JJ. You’d keep a top 10 SG or PF here, regardless of who goes. The difference is that if you keep the top 10 SG, you have another big man here that you could move into Josh’s spot and become a top 10 PF, while trading the top 10 PF for another real good piece . . or good complimentary pieces.
Like I said, JJ isn’t the one expressing to others that he wants to be traded. You don’t keep someone in the mix who isn’t thrilled about continuing his career here ( for whatever reason ).
Both JJ and Josh are expendable, if you bring the right player(s) in here. It’s just that after this summer, the Hawks give complete control of their destiny to Josh, rather than have control of it themselves if they act this summer. He’ll do exactly what JJ did, and wait to become an unrestricted free agent.
At that point, whatever Josh wants, Josh will get.
prison mike
May 28th, 2012
3:23 pm
Marvin was 100th in threes taken, I don’t think he had enough attempts to be taken into consideration. I believe the cut off point should be 67th where Lawson was ranked at with 200 attempts.
Just like Teague’s hot start shooting 3’s he came down hard in percentages in the final half of the season.
darrell starks
May 28th, 2012
3:28 pm
This the trade that Hawks should push for, If the Hawks are going have any chance at D12 coming here for 2013, They must get rid of Joe contract i believe Kobe would push hard for this trade.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7r79dsp
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
May 28th, 2012
3:34 pm
SESSIONS, KOBE, JOE, PIECE, BYNUM
LAKER MIGHT MAKE THIS TRADE.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DawgNole
May 28th, 2012
3:36 pm
Grandad
May 28th, 2012
12:38 am
DawhNole
You say we are satisfied with mediocrity. You say we should not applaud success; even in minor doses when an individual or the team succeeds. You claim it`s the organization [40+] yrs; though ownership and management have changed numerous times. You claim you are -not- a pseudo fan.
You insist the rest of us are ” mindless “.
Which sets yourself up as ” King DawgNole ” -Ruler of all Blog People-`cept for those of us who will not tolerate your little ” Napoleon complex “.
There are a few quirky little minions on this board, who will subjugate themselves to your hineyness;
so enjoy your little blogdumb.
I prefer to spend my remaining yrs enjoying the game I love and sharing that joy with my friends on this here community of Hawks fans on this same blog.
Enjoy your pessimism, with warm regards,
G-dad
____________________
Are you pompous and bitter, old man? You sure do come off that way, which would be fine except that you continue to lie about my comments. Where, for example, did I ever “insist the rest of us are mindless”? Find that post. You can’t, because it never happened. Nor did I say you “shouldn’t applaud success.” You won’t find that post either.
There are many (not just “a few”) on here who are brighter than me–and most certainly brighter than you; among them are the ones you (in all your pomposity and bitterness) have dismissed as “quirky little minions.”
Still longing for the good ol’ days, gramps, when the Hawks were . . . well, the same as they are today, actually? Still no closer to a championship than when they got here. You satisfied with that? Have at it.
“You say we are satisfied with mediocrity.” What is this “we” stuff? You should speak for yourself. You might or might not be satisfied with it, but not everyone here is, nor did I ever say everyone on here is. More of your fabrications.
If it’s not the organization that’s responsible for 44 years of playoff failures, then what is it? The city? Sure as hell isn’t the players or coaches.
And for the XXth time, it isn’t “pessimism”–any more than it’s “negativity.” It’s called REALITY, and you may as well get used to it, because it’s far from over with here.
If you’d like to crown me “King DawgNole,” go right ahead. You’ll be the first–and hopefully the last. Meanwhile, I’ll crown you “King AzzHole.” That oughta make us about even.
Dept. Of Unintended Irony
May 28th, 2012
3:39 pm
“He seems to have take to many rope-a-dope shots to the head? lol”
He took to receiving shots to the head? Too much, man!
Unbelievable how many on this blog cannot seem to differentiate between to, too, and two. Which is only ironic when the meaning is changed. Which is often! (see above example)