Atlanta Hawks: Larry Drew to return as coach

Is Sund not returning? Did he have a say in this? Prob not since LD wasn’t Sund’s guy

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That kind of confirms my concerns, the decision was made prior to having Sund (or someone else) formally signed to be the Hawks GM for the ‘12-13 season. IMO, it is never a good thing for ownership to make a coaching hire (or pick up an option) without the GM being fully on-board. It creates the possibility for unneccesary distractions (not to mention having a lame duck head coach looking over hs shoulder all season long).

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MC, did they even consider an upgrade at coach or are the ASG happy with the team and its accomplishments?

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No surprise. Moving on.

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MC, I am trying to figure out why do I support this team for.

So in other words, they are going to submit that Josh isnt coming back and they aint going to do anything to get value back.

This is how i feel right now
“Dont push me cause I’m close to the edge”
“I’m trying not to lose my head, ah-huh-huh”

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@ Dr.Warren,

If I’m not mistaken, LD signed a contract for 2 years in the year 2010 with a 3rd year option for the 2012 – 2013 season. I think it’s just the way that was written that’s messing with you?

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Whyyyyyyyyyy???????? For the love of GOD whyyyyyyy!!!!!! What is the goal each year? “HEY EVERYBODY LETS STRIVE TO MAKE IT TO THE FIRST OR SECOND ROUND OF THE PLAYOFF THEN TANK!!!!!!”

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I really think that ASG is in their own little world, right now. This guys is making it easy to hate him and I want to hear the spin about this because its going to be good because if not. Oh boy.

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Emir—you are right, it is the confusing way it is written. Should be rewritten, frankly.

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Darn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

Prediction: No shot with this coach at an ECF……

Too soft!! Round peg square hole….

Will research his record against the winners past two years..Its abysmal!

Out West he would not make the playoffs…

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I am also interested to see if Drew Moves Al to the 4 spot while starting Pachulla at the 5 and moving josh to the 3 and marving to the bench in a sixth man role. Obviously Joe stays at the two unless you can trade him and ZsaZsa and the first round pick along with Marvin to the magic for Dwight Howard, Turkalou, and Jason Richardson, then you have the same starting lineup instead you have Dwight at the 5 spot and Richardson at the two with Turkalou off the bench, let’s see what hawks management come up with.

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I guess ASG didn’t watch the last playoff game when Josh walked out of the huddle and it was obvious no one was listening to LD. Aside from the fact that he’s a horrible coach, he does not command respect. On top of that, his players are immature. That’s the worst combo possible and ASG seems content. Does anyone else here feel like ASG should be barred from ownership for sabotaging this team? We are hamstrung with JJ’s contract, our biggest producer is also our biggest detriment and refuses to show up in high pressure situations. The fans have no reason to show up for games. ASG’s solution? LETS BUILD A 3 STORY FINE DINING RESTAURANT BECAUSE SURELY THAT WILL APPEAL TO THE MAJORITY OF WORKING CLASS FANS WHO ARE ALREADY HAVING ISSUES PAYING FOR TICKETS! screw this team and it’s owners. GO GRIZZ!

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All Whatever at the 4 and ZaZa at the 5 means no rim protection= LAYUP CITY

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Summer of Sameness the Sequel Act. 1 has began

The Return of L.D

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The Atlanta Hawks made a very good move in keeping Larry Drew as Head Coach. Good Luck next year. The Hawks could win the NBA Championship with this nucleus.

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What will part 2 of Act 1 bring

Prediction Gearon says that Orlando didn’t advance past the first round either nor did the Bulls.

Newsflash Gearon if you even make that mistaken both of those teams have been to a ECF and one of the teams has made it to the Finals in the last 4 years.

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Dallas Mavericks coach, Rick Carlisle is from Lisbon, N.Y. You do not know where that is.

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And we are stuck in neutral for another year

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Say good by to Josh

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“Your best bench player in Ivan Mr. 9 – 5 didn’t play in Celtics series”

Actually, Ivan played in all but the final game.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ivan_johnson/

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i saw someone posted elsewhere on another blog that hawks will be 2nd best team in east next year due to bulls rose out a year. lets look at other teams i east:

phillly still young
boston no longer elite
knicks unproven bad mix
orlando dwight more than likely gone team will be worse
chi rose out for year
heat if no title this year changes
indy will be better next year

assuming josh dont get traded in summer do anyone really thin hawks can contend next year with exact core team minus a few tweaks? i dont see it especialy with this coach who comes off as a pete carroll nfl career as a coach

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For how much longer? Other teams that were a couple of years helplessly behind, a re now ahead of the Hawks, and some of them are still in playoffs. Why?

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*raised eyebrow*

Mildly surprised, as I would have thought that a decision on Rick Sund is the big domino that had to fall first.
The GM would seem to be the key decision maker on:

Head coach (esp. since LD’s option was up this year)
J-Smoove (1 year left on deal, need to resign or trade)
FA inquires (depends on who is here, see J. Smith and expiring deals from 2011-2012)
Final draft big board (see J. Smith – draft-worthy talent depends on who is here and who is gone for 2012 … can you really draft for need or BPA if you aren’t sure if Smoove will be here past 2013?)

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Remember: The goal is not winning CHAMPIONSHIPS IN ATLANTA..

PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT!

That is all..

If you believe other wise can I sell ya the beautiful, magnificent GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE?

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NOOOOOOOOOO !!!

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“Atlanta isn’t a basketball town so fans really don’t have a clue, unless the “Zen Master” or Jerry Sloan walks threw the door, Drew’s the man for this team.”

Which direction did they throw the door?

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“Larry did an outstanding job this season in guiding our team to the fourth-best record in the Eastern Conference, despite a condensed schedule and unfortunate injuries,” Hawks GM Rick Sund said in a statement released by the team. “The Hawks have reached the postseason in each of his years on the bench, and we feel Larry’s experience, expertise and dedication to the game were a key ingredient to our success.”

**********************

LOL . . you were saying Astro?

Just STFU Sund. Please STFU.

I guess next up will be Gearon, and his schizophernic, long-winded explanations on why the Hawks are still striving to get better.

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This spells 1 and done for TMac.

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I say we boycott Philips.

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The Hawks are lucky that only about 5.000 people actually care about who the coach is. They just better hope that all 5,000 of them aren’t season ticket holders.

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LOL @ Drew stopping Josh from taking jumpers. He encourages it.

1,053 jumpers from 16+ feet or more in the past 2 years under Drew. Add another 600 to that total, especially since Josh is the #1 offensive option on the team now.

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“This team either gets it done this year coming up, because if not we are looking at a complete overhaul of this roster”

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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The Hawks management is like electricity-they are have been taking an will continue to take: the shortest path of least resistance. They could care less what the fans think. They are in it, not to win it, but to keep the revenue stream flowing-with no boat rockers mucking it up. Give the dog a bone. Keep Larry, keep Marvin, Joe, Josh, etc. and trade the bench guys with the chump change left over.

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Hey northcyde? Whats Drew’s record against the winners his past two years? Any idea?

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Atlanta did have the 5th best defense overall in the NBA this year, give Drew some credit the man can coach.

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How about the Thrashers?

Will they be returning?

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The man left T-Mac to rot on the bench [played 5 mins] in the critical game two against the Celtics and lost the home court and the series!

Oh yea he can coach alright..Perhaps a High School squad?

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Congrats Hawks! With Drew returning and the ‘core’ players, Hawks will certainly win the championship next year. And Kansas City will win the World Series and Ron Paul will be elected president. Can’t wait!

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Slimjr, I agree T-Mac was the best player all year he really would have made a difference probably could’ve dropped 35 on those shaky knees.

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Josh attended the initial press conference for Uncle larry. Talked about his role as peace-maker when he and Woody got tangled up. I think that Josh is likely happy about this also, and it may have been done (in part) as part of the sales job to keep Josh. LD’s willingness to unleash “Josh to be Josh” may help him earn an extra few millions on his next contract. LD encourages Josh to run the fast break, take jumpers, etc. LD named Josh a captain, even when it wasn’t yet clear that he was ready for that responsibility. Uncle Larry stays.

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I like my coach, even though he looks like a drunk.

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The ASG give Timothy McVeigh a run for his money.

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“The man left T-Mac to rot on the bench [played 5 mins] in the critical game two against the Celtics and lost the home court and the series!” – slimjr

slim do you see ANY irony at all with mentioning leaving T-Mac on the bench, when T-Mac WAS ON THE COURT for that now famous “poor rotation” that YOU claim lost the game and the series?

You want it both ways. You want to claim LD lost the game and the series for his poor rotation, and yet T-Mac WAS RIGHT THERE in the middle of that crucial segment. And now you’ll criticize LD for not using T-Mac more?

A little bit hypocritical I’d say. Though I would have loved to have seen T-Mac more, myself.

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At least he’s cheap.

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“Sautee, I assume that part of that record you quoted for Woody was during the early re-building process when he had to lean on guys like Antoine Walker, Kenny Anderson and Tony Delk. Me thinks LD inherited a slightly better roster than Woody had in his first 2 seasons.”

No doubt, AJ, which is why I brought up the 09-10 season. However, I’m hoping that we never ever SEE LD’s 5th and 6th seasons.

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The Hawks made a smart move with Larry. Instead of looking for anew coach,We should be looking for a new GM !! …. no idiots like Billy King or someone who doesn’t even reside in Atlanta!! Get a Theo Epstein type…. young, smart and ambitious! We won;t find a good GM unless he can pick his own coach…hence, the 1 yr extension of Drew. As for our new GM..no more technocrat, balding, white guys who never played the game! Larry is OK…. he just needs one big man and some good B players like Pachulia and Ivan J. to round out his roster. LD got one year to proves he’s worth a long term deal and/or also the next GM’s man!! I say let the Man child Josh Smith go seek his fortune elsewhere and try to get a Lemarcus Aldridge type to fill the middle and complete out world class roster. Josh Smith should get us something good in trade …. especially in the draft! Oh, and before I forget…. Dump Marvin Williams!! NOW!! Please !!

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Larry Drew cannot overcome a ISO LOCKDOWN SPECIALIST..

Plain and simple..Got it? His St. Johns offense has too many holes….

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“Mike

May 18th, 2012
3:05 pm
Atlanta did have the 5th best defense overall in the NBA this year, give Drew some credit the man can coach.”

Hey Mike, where did the 5th best defense get Drew and his coaching this year?

Was is just a fluke that we did not play our best against Boston?
Was it a fluke we lost HC advantage against a Rondo-less Celtics team?

Just way too many excuses for where we ended up this year and where management said we would give this one more run in 2012. So what management really said was this is the 1st time we evaluated them on a one year basis and they are deserver another year.

Like 790 said today…..we’re just wasting everyone’s time.

This is the NBA’s version of Groundhog Day…..if you can’t see that, then there is no reasoning to try and wake you up.

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Hey we heard a rumor the Swans [investors/ownership] are strapped for cash?

Then why in the heck did they drop 2 million large on a freaking STEAK HOUSE?????????????????

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No reason not to. Under Drew the Hawks have at least competed in the playoffs. Last year they beat Orlando in six, and lost to Chicago in six. They found Teague at PG in that Chicago series. They would have beaten Boston this year if Smith, Horford, and Pachulia werent injured. He needs a year where he can play with a full lineup of Teague, Smith, Horford, Johnson, and Hinrich/Williams.

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Barney, responding to your post, are you kidding me?

LD’s playoff record in 2 years: 8-10

It kinda sounds like his record against teams over .500 doesn’t it?

What kind of stat will the ASG come up with this year to justify them getting bounced on their arse after only 6 games?

“Hey, we’re within 14 wins of the NBA trophy!” Only 14 teams in the NBA could say that this year! We’re elite!

No stupid, you’re average!

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I love to read those that think they know how to coach put down an actual coach.

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Well another season where I will not attend a game!!!!

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I agree with Eric. Larry Drew did a good job. The Hawks had a chance to win the series and blew it in game #2 (the one game I went to). We also had our chances in Game 3 and 6 but came up short. I was disappointed but I think we were pretty close. I know the roster will change some but I liked the team and how they played for most of the year. If they can keep some of the key reserves and maybe up-grade at center a little we may get there.

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@Jake – Here’s a heads up. We don’t have an actual coach.

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Supreme Grand Poobah,

Here’s a famous quote that is sadly apropos:

“Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”

― Albert Einstein

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no comment

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“Walt Frazier

May 18th, 2012
2:59 pm
The Hawks management is like electricity-they are have been taking an will continue to take: the shortest path of least resistance. They could care less what the fans think. They are in it, not to win it, but to keep the revenue stream flowing-with no boat rockers mucking it up. Give the dog a bone. Keep Larry, keep Marvin, Joe, Josh, etc. and trade the bench guys with the chump change left over.”

For any Hawks fans that get irritated when Spike or any band of Celtic fans invade Philips, read what Walt said……as long as the revenue keeps coming in, so what!

Now we know why Kobe jerseys are on sale in the Hawks experience stores…

As long as the ASG is here, it’s getting easier to watch these guys fail over and over again.

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You can whine, cry, complain and b!tch all you want, but LDrew did an excellent job of keeping his team in the hunt and moving this team forward under a trying schedule. It makes his accomplishment even more impressive when you consider the financial constraints he had to work with. When you add the brutal schedule his Hawks had to endure, and the fact they led the league in gms lost to injuries, he should have been extended.

What it does tell us is that a key player or 2 won’t be returning. I don’t think LDrew or management wants to bring this team back intact. One thing they definitely learned this yr, and that’s a talent and versatile veteran bench can overcome a lot of flaws in your starfting 5.

I believe Ivan Johnson will return since we can offer him a tender and match any offer he receives. We should also consider bring back JPargo and WGreen, but we should replace Hinrich with a PG. Starting the season with these 3 guys after a full training camp under their belts will give us a chance at a solid start.

We definitely need to add a starting caliber SF, along with a younger, more athletic DEF minded OC with starting potential. If DHoward ends up being traded to the Western Conference, will we still be obsessed with holding onto JCollins and/or EDampier?

I have a question. Suppose we traded Josh for a 1st rd pick and took back an additional player or players to make it work salary wise. Can we amnesty one of the acquired players to keep us under the cap? If so, that move, along with not having to pay a 2nd rd pick, or having to pay Josh’s salary increase, should give us the cap spaceand money needed to sign 2 1st rd picks. JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

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Ken…you can’t use the amnesty provision on a player that was not under contract at the time of the new CBA. Hawks can only use the provision on Teague, Joe, Josh, Marvin, Al, or ZaZa…no matter what moves happen going forward.

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I’m not your average fan, but a sports guru. please give me a job with the Hawks and let me assist you owners and GM AT GETTING US A CHAMPIONSHIP SQUAD.

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KenS, the way we operate, we don’t bring in young guys to develop. Go back all the way to Al Horford as a draft pick as a guy we believed in.

And if you’re referring to us not having a 2nd rounder, we only got rid of 1 2nd round pick, not both. But drafting a guy and keeping him would be unique for this team, yes, I agree.

You make good points, and I’m not surprised, but you always want to hear that we’re making progress, not making a corporate lateral move because it’s easy on the balance sheet.

This ownership group is clueless in developing a culture here. Right now, we are a 1 year Occupy movement waiting for someone else to make a move and we just fall into that slot.

How many 4th or 5th seed finishes do you need to see to be convinced we are simply filling up a space in the conference standings?

Orlando should be totally embarrassed finishing behind us.

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Game 2= “so close, yet so far” –unknown author-

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..but I know that both Khawai and Faried went in the top 20 of the draft……….we would have to be real shrewd to snag a talent like that in the late 1st round.

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Tyger you make no sense whatsoever.

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Just Joe

May 18th, 2012
4:31 pm

“Ken…you can’t use the amnesty provision on a player that was not under contract at the time of the new CBA. Hawks can only use the provision on Teague, Joe, Josh, Marvin, Al, or ZaZa…no matter what moves happen going forward.”

Just Joe, I betcha this amnesty provision is not part of this cash strapped organization?

Doug Collins wins Game two going away!

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DAMN, NOW MY WEEKEND IS ALL F*CKED UP!!!

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Somebody remind us what a team does when they get a 2-0 series advantage in the playoffs? Bring out that stat.

For 2 straight years, it has been coaching that has cost us Game 2, not injured players. Do I need to remind you of Chicago and 2 foul Al? How about NO Rondo for 48 minutes? Its comical.

Only LD has that mark on his resume.

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I have never seen owners that hires the head coach. Typically, that is the job of your GM. This organization has 16 hands in the pot and that’s 14 hands too many.

New past times for me ahead.

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@ drmaryb

You and me both, but the only reason L.D was hired was to appease the core if I’m right, and someone just said that these players are turning on him.

If I were Josh I probably would hope to be traded as well because as people keep saying this ownership don’t know how to promote basketball. People will come you just got to be committed to winning, but as someone else said.

IT’S NOT ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS

IT’S PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT!

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We gave a GM who may leave, a say in our next head coach. Wow.

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Go up 2-0, winning the series in 7 game format goes up to over 85%!

LARRY DREW= 28-47 against teams above .500[WINNERS] IN HIS 1ST TWO SEASONS AS A HEAD COACH!

THE STREAK WILL CONTINUE!

ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY BRUTAL!

44

2056

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The Hawks are still the best franchise in town though acording to some of yall. HA!

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Whats the definition of insanity again!!!! I’m don,I can’t take this anymore! I’ll start back watching when some real changes are made.

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Ken S,

What it does tell us is that a key player or 2 won’t be returning. I don’t think LDrew or management wants to bring this team back intact..

In the ASG’s history, is there anything to suggest they wont keep the team intact? They have already served us the “injuries” excuse, so they will justify bringing everybody back by saying “If Horford and Zaza were healthy, we would have beaten Boston, and potentially advanced to the ECF”.

KevinM,

Orlando should be totally embarrassed finishing behind us..

I think Orlando will make some moves. The HC might be gone, the GM might be gone, and at the very least, I expect them to try and shake up the roster.

And maybe I am in the minority, but I think the condensed schedule helped the Hawks. Not only are we a veteran ball club that has played together for years, we are still fairly young and athletic, and we do have good players.

Its just that in the playoffs, our shortcomings are magnified.

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ob, PLAYING IN THE EASTERN CONF. HELPS THE HAWKS CAUSE THEIR A 9TH OR 10TH SEED OUT WEST FOR SURE……

THEY’D LOSE BY 30 A NIGHT AGAINST THE SPURS!

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It’s deja vu all over again.

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Another year of whatever.

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Yeah he’s grown into 28-47..

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Lame Duck

GM JeJe- your previous post about the hawks future was on point.

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We have been making fantasy trades for 4 years and the Hawks still refuse to make a major move. Give it up yall. We are going to have the same team going into the next season.

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I heard somewhere Golden State wanted Josh Smith for Monta Ellis. If its true we should have made that trade.

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That would have been a horrible trade. Monta Ellis was horrible after being traded from GS to Milwaukee. Thank goodness Hawks didn’t make that trade.

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I knew nothing will change ASG CHEAP , CHEAP , CHEAP don’t expect any big name free agents ether prepare for a boring summer folks Atlanta sports sucks .

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Well he’s done better than any other Hawks coach recently. But then again that ain’t saying. Except for your fooball coach, what is it about pro sports in Atlanta that attracts douche bag owners?

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after watching DWade last night I don’t feel too bad about our team anymore.

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Josh is gone after this season. We should have got something for him while we could.

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WOW. MC, do you relish in being the bearer of BAD NEWS. First the the report the Josh Smith is tsill eyeing greener pasteurs, to the bleak roster/salary outlook to this LD return. He is overmatched and his presence is underwhelming. They should have solidified the GM quagmire first. The inept basturds at the ASG have to fold the tents and walk away. Its sad that LD did not argue that bs call at the end of game 6. Incompetent simpletons

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I am sick of mediocre – this is a dayum sports city but the ASG just does not give hoot about excelling. We are carved out to be a ‘filler’ team, not the ‘meat and potatoes” teams that are battling now. What’s sad is we are not that far off but a couple of shrewd moves here or there and real coaching away from contending.

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I am done. I am in shock. Proof positive the Hawks ownership/management is not serious.

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We all knew it was coming–the same ol’ same ol’ plus the injuries excuses. I guess seeing it “officially” announced kind of brings home what we all dreaded with a thud.

Forty-four years and counting.

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I am trying to get 50,000 Hawks fan to join me in buying into the team. $2000 a piece will give us a $100 million. The Atlanta Hawks is worth $295 million. I believe we should be like the Green Bay Packers and find a way to buy this team away from the Atlanta Spirit. We as fans can come together,it only takes 50,000 Hawks fan to join me in buying into the team. $2000 a piece will give us a $100 million. Then we find another investor to join us. The Atlanta Hawks is worth $295 million.

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Betcha Josh walks just like JC1 and the Swans get zero in return…..

Hey at least their saving money? Huh?

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So where the hell is Gearon with his BS spin that only works on 4 year olds probably not even lol.

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Hawks organization really proved to Josh Smith its commitment to winning a championship with that move.

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“Hawks organization really proved to Josh Smith its commitment to winning a championship with that move.”

How do you know that? They may have ASKED Josh, and he said he wanted LD.

After all, LD gives Josh free rein, right? Even if he’s thinking of leaving, he could make more money on his next contract if he is the focus, and given free rein (assuming he stays until near the trade deadline). Can you imagine a new coach allowing Josh to do what he does with LD?

I can’t.

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Buddy G got jokes! Hahahah

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LD deserves one more year after success with a depleted team. Even Boston needed the refs. To help them to the next round. Good luck LD and Go Hawks!

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I like tuttles.

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JUST JOE/KEVIN M-Thanks for the info. Changes must be made, but not drastic changes. We have no choice but to trade Josh Smith due his impending FA after the season, and his desire to go elsewhere. There’s little doubt that he’s worth more now than at any other time. He and Horford are our 2 of our most valuable assets.

Making the right trade for him could get us the Big we need, or the draft pick we need to get that Big. I was wrong about having JJ play SF. His lack of rebounding puts too much pressure on our C and PF. We desperately need a SF that’s capable of consistently scoring outside, finishing at the rim, and playing DEF.

If we can add that type of SF to Horford, JJ and Teague, teams won’t be able to consistently double JJ like Boston did. We need to maintain a solid, versatile bench, and get a scoring SF and DEF minded C. We can get a quality SF with our current 1st rd pick, and we could possibly bet a high enough 1st rd pick in trade for Josh to get a quality C in trade or through the draft.

Getting those 2 assets, plus bringing back Pargo, Johnson, and Green, to go with Teague, JJ, Marvin, Horford, and Zaza, would give us a very solid core of 10 players. Add another PG and Big to that mix, and we’d have a 12 man roster that could challenge for the Eastern Conference title.

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“We can’t be satisfied with every year making it to the playoffs. … We’re beyond that now. We’ve got to ask ourselves, with what we have now can we get to the next level?”

– Atlanta Hawks coach Larry Drew

Easy answer LD: NO!!!!!

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FTPB

LOL . . tell that to the Indiana Pacers or the Sixers.

What exactly have the Pacers and Sixers accomplished? The Sixers beat a team whose best player by far was injured the entire series, and the Pacers beat a team whose best player by far was injured the entire series. The Sixers are well on their way to getting destroyed by Boston in Round 2 and getting booed by their home crowd. I give the Pacers credit for playing hard and going up 2-1 on Miami, but the main reason for this is Miami’s complete and utter lack of big man depth behind Bosh, which is a problem against a team that has good players at PF and C like Indiana.

Miami has the two best players in that series, but if Bosh is out, the Pacers have the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th best players in that series. Asking former or current All Stars like Hibbert, Granger, West, etc. to step up against a two man team surrounded by scrubs is nothing like asking players like Zaza and Marvin to step up for an entire series, let alone an entire season, to compensate for the loss of Josh.

You’ve been one of the biggest proponents of Jeff Teague from Day 1. When he was finally given the chance to play the way he needs to be playing, he responded with his best game of the series. And he did it without really dominating the ball. Probably should’ve been used a little more in that game actually, instead of the offense going through JJ and T-Mac.

On a night in which the Hawks shoot an abysmal 6 – 37 on shots 16+ feet and out, the Hawks compensated by scoring 52 points in the paint

Once again, all of this is completely irrelevant in light of the fact that the Hawks put up their worst offensive rating of the series in Game 3, the game Josh missed. So Teague plays a little better, Marvin grabs some boards, the Hawks put up an offensive stinker and lose, and this is evidence to you that they can trade Josh and be just fine?

Josh is a major reason why this team stays out of balance on the offensive end. It’s not a coincidence that this team was the #2 offensively rated team in the 2009 – 10 season, when Josh basically abandoned the jumpshot and played 15 feet and in. It’s also the season in which he grabbed almost 3 offensive rebounds a game, something the team did very well collectively that season.

Yeah, they were the #2 offensive team that year because they dominated the offensive glass, not because of better offensive balance or better shooting from the field. How did that work out when they went up against a team in the playoffs with the best rebounder in the league, who had a size advantage over every player the Hawks threw at him?

He’s not the SOLE reason why this team finished 5th in defense. Josh is an elite help defender and a slightly above average man defender. He is the unquestioned defensive leader of the team.

But once again, you’ve been one of the biggest proponents of Jeff Teague. You think Teague playing the point full time, and not Bibby or Jamal, helped the Hawks to achieve that #5 ranking? And both JJ and Hinrich are good defensive guards. Underrated defensive guards actually.

Sure, replacing Bibby and Jamal with Teague helped. Doesn’t change the fact that Josh is still the linchpin of this team’s defense. The addition of Iman Shumpert didn’t stop DPOY voters from recognizing that Chandler is the linchpin of that team’s D. No different with the Hawks and Josh.

You keep talking about one weakness of Josh’s game — his unwillingness to consistently play around the rim — and trying to say this outweighs his positive contributions to the extent that his positive contributions are replaceable by far lesser players. This is no different than taking one strength of Jamal’s game — his ability to score — and saying that this outweighs his other deficiencies to the extent that his scoring alone justifies keeping him on the floor. You’re doing the exact same thing High-sider does with Jamal and applying it to Josh, and you’re just as wrong as he is.

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Rephrase: Coaching cost us game 2 vs Orlando LAST YEAR. I believe Al had 2 fouls in 1st and finished with 2 fouls, yet got hardly any minutes?

2 years ago was just a disaster with the roster ORL had. Woody did NOT CHANGE THE STARTING LINEUP ONCE THAT ENTIRE SERIES.

In other words, we got MURDERED in games 1 and 2 and he STUCK WITH THE SAME STARTING LINEUP ANYWAY

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For the first time since 07 (when we were in the lottery) I’m actually interested in the draft order, mostly because I wonder who gets Anthony Davis. He’s so much fun to watch, that I’ll be a fan of whichever team drafts him. and if it’s the Bobcats, I’ll get to see him more often, since my directv package includes the Carolina Fox station.

I only wish that the Hawks could pull a blockbuster and get him. Not a prayer, though with this bunch.

IMO he will have a Duncan-like impact.

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“Another blown chance to rise above mediocrity. LD was an average coach. This bunch needs FAR more than that. FAR MORE.”

Yup.

If you have superstars, you can get pretty deep in the playoffs even with an average coach (see Erik Spoelstra). When you have a less than stellar roster, you better have a stellar coach if you want them to get anywhere meaningful.

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I’m amazed at the idiots who keep suggesting that the hawks would move to Seattle. But damn, if we don’t have a post every week or so saying just that.

Here’s why they will be in Atlanta for a long time:

“Under the terms of the new bond agreement, the Hawks cannot leave Philips Arena for at least seven years even if they pay off the bonds in their entirety. If the Hawks do leave, there’s a $75 million “early termination penalty” that the Spirit or the new owners that want a team elsewhere would be socked with.”

“[The team] could theoretically pay off the remaining $123.5 million in bonds off tomorrow and the Hawks could leave, but they cannot leave until the 2018-19 season at earliest without also forking over another $75 million in addition to the $123.5 million or so left remaining on the bonds.”

“Even that is an incomplete pricetag: the NBA has a relocation fee that is decided by the other 29 owners. The last time a team relocated, in 2008, the Oklahoma City Thunder had to fork over $30 million. The L.A. Lakers and Clippers threatened to push for a painful relocation fee when the Maloof family attempted to move the Sacramento Kings to Anaheim last season. The costs of relocation could easily exceed the value of the franchise.”

“That makes relocation — to Anaheim or anywhere — pretty much untenable. So sleep easy, Atlanta.”

http://www.sbnation.com/2011/8/7/2350239/atlanta-hawks-sold-alex-meruelo-philips-arena-relocation

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Also FTPB

Rod, I am generally pretty skeptical of “fantasy stats”, but offensive and defensive rating are not that hard to understand. Points per game is the number of points a team scores in 48 minutes. Offensive rating is just the number of points a team scores in 100 possessions (and defensive rating is how many points a team gives up in 100 possessions). Doesn’t require any crazy calculating.

A team like Sacramento that jets up and down the court looking for fast break buckets all game is going to have an inflated points per game because they get so many shots up, and a team like Toronto that isn’t particularly good defensively but slows the game down is going to have an artificially low points per game allowed. O-rating and D-rating allow you to see through that.

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I’ll see you in about an hour then Rutherford. I’m going to beat your rear end like your daddy should have a long time ago.

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“This is a chance to right the ship…
Get a Hibbert instead of Teague…”

Hibbert and Teague weren’t even in the same draft. Stick to posting HBCU standings in blogs where they are not relevant.

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Shut up Bruce. If I wanted your advice, I’d clog a commode.

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” I was wrong about having JJ play SF. His lack of rebounding puts too much pressure on our C and PF. We desperately need a SF that’s capable of consistently scoring outside, finishing at the rim, and playing DEF.” – KenS

Ken, I liked your Joe to SF idea….the problem is we may be the only team in the league that can’t find a fixture at SF.
I don’t like SF Josh
I refuse to accept Marvin and his game at SF…he is so over his head.
I would have liked a legit chance to see T-Mac but he isn’t much of a post guy.

There’s always hope that things finally clicked, but I’ve seen Groundhog Day at Philips more than we should be forced to watch it.
We know the ending here, just like we knew a visiting team would come into the Ted and wipe the Braves off the field for what, 7 or 8 years?

This ASG is a bunch of buffoons…..I hope they read this because they deserve nothing better than 60% of the fans of Atlanta to quit supporting their ineptness.

Any other city would not stand for this. For what they did to hockey here, I would fear for my life if I were them. You’re messing with passionate fans here. Pull the plug and sell this team.

I’m with Ray; Charlotte will have more intrigue than this clown show.
You might as well bring Sund back too. I wouldn’t want to leave any of the incumbents out.

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Andre has an issue like most NBA players have, no mid-range game..Its either 3 pointers or dunks..

Lebron has very little mid-range game.. He’s on his way to becoming an improved version of Charles Barkley[ring less]…

He should own that mid-range area[8-18 feet].. See Mike or Kobe film….

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This is it. On Monday, I’m cutting funding for home internet reimbursement. This was the last straw.

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Hey David, I still own more land than you! Punk.

Special thank you to all the incredibly stupid citizens of Atlanta who don’t have a problem with my name being on the baseball stadium b/c they don’t realize how much I screwed them by having my old company sell to my son and his loser friends. You people make the world a better place for guys like me.

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Dad, this may not be the best time but can I borrow the plane next month to go to South America?

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I told you never to call me that Rutherford. And no, you cannot borrow it. I’m going to Canada to go geese hunting with Keanu Reeves’ dad, Bobby.

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Yeah the 76ers are flawed, and at times they get into that one on one jump shooting funk, but man they are so athletic and move without the ball, unlike the Hawks, they make the Celtics move on defense.

How about this deal in the summer?

Josh Smith
for
Thaddeus Young, Jodie Meeks and Lavoy Allen

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Philly in this game is taking full advantage of Boston’s inability to rebound in a way the Hawks never did during their series.

And even with all their hustle and domination of the glass, they are still down by 3. They may very well win this game, but it’s not a good sign that they are taking full advantage of their biggest advantages and can’t maintain a lead against Boston at home.

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PATHETIC!! Losersville yesterday. Losersville today. And , oh yes, Losersville tomorrow. And most probably, for eternity. You can’t make this stuff up….

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Sweet! I think I should get one for getting kicked off stage that one time.

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You weren’t at the Pink Pony you liar! I want my $20 back! I swear I’m going to staple your a$$ to your face.

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Good grief Eddie, anger management…like we practiced.

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Huge win for the 76′ers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A testament to great coaching!

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“Another sobering truth: The shortened schedule wasn’t exactly balanced. The Hawks played 25 games against the seven Eastern clubs who failed to make the playoffs, all of whom finished under .500. Boston and Chicago and Indiana each played 23 games against those seven; Miami played 21. Among Eastern playoff qualifiers, only the Knicks had so many games against the conference’s bottom tier. The Hawks played the minimum four games against the top four finishers in the West; every other Eastern playoff qualifier except Indiana played more.” -Bradley-

Fools Paradise, was it very nice? –Rufus featuring Chaka Kahn-

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“Eight days after elimination, the Hawks moved to keep Drew. Why? Well, he works cheap. Beyond that, I really don’t know. To say he hasn’t been a disaster as head coach ignores the reason he was given the job: Drew convinced management he could improve on what Woodson had done. Two years later, he hasn’t.” -Bradley-

Bradley is on point!

44

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Walk away

Idiots

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Oh my god they have extended that idiot.

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face it people, we’re screwed!

We got a bunch of broke millionaires as owners. They got money but they ain’t got bigboy paper. So we end-up with a knockoff gm and a knockoff coach and a talented player who doesn’t get it – Josh Smith and there’s nobody to hold him accountable.

Until somebody buys the team, it is what it is.

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I want to act shocked, surprised, and disappointed. Unfortunately this is exactly what I have learned to expect from the ASG. Wake me up when these morons have sold the franchise to someone, anyone. The Rankin Smith family could not possibly do worse. ASG < The Clampetts.

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Keep him!!! Work the roster, Spirit Group! Aweeee heck…FIRE THE SPIRIT GROUP!

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Thugs

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/benches-clearing-youth-indoor-lacrosse-brawl-leads-15-150118092.html

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LD coming back is a heart breaker to the die hard Hawks fans, there is no light at the end of the tunnel with this move only another wasted time and money.

ASG are not in this for the benefit of this franchise but for self preservation in there on ways, having said that its evident that ASG are cluless as owners and how to become successful business men.

It takes money to make money,signing a underperform coach who have a losing record against teams with winning record and getting exile in the first round, let the fans no that ASG don’t care for fans who spend there hard ern money to go and try to support this team but is discombobulated and confuse in many ways for the average Joe.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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There goes hope….

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Hawks team’ needs are to improve offensive efficiency and rebounding. Individual player “roles” would be a wing defender and a wing that can create his own shot, a backup PG to lead the 2nd unit, a 3 pt shooter, a backup PF and a 7 footer to defend, rebound, and bring energy off the bench.

If we can fill those 6 roles, then I’m fine with keeping the “core 6″ together for another year. If we can’t because we don’t have the cap space, then trades need to be made.

And don’t try to sell me Jason Collins as my 7 footer, or Pargo as the PG that’s going to lead my 2nd unit. Our core is not good enough to compensate for not having these defined role players coming off the bench. This year’s bench had Hinrich as a backup PG, McGrady as the wing shot creator, Ivan as the high energy PF, and Green as the 3 pt shooter. We were missing the wing defender and 7 foot rebounder/shot blocker (and a healthy core). The rest of our bench were 13-15 roster spot guys (Pargo, Collins, Vlad, Damp). I’d rather see youngsters developing in those spots.

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[off] insert

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1-6= Falcons against the Winners.. This past season

14-25= Hawks against the Winners.. Ditto

These are the true barometers or measuring sticks that gives you a clue to how these teams are really performing and also will give you an idea about the melt down that will come in the playoffs…

Moral to the story: don’t believe the hype( 40-26) this organizations record they are selling you…

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“Slimjr Larry Drew said Hawks are at their best with Josh leading the fast break, not Teague.” -Buddy-

Hey Buddy, I guess it’s not an accident why this coach is only 28-47 against the winners? Hmmmmmm

44

2056

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GEARON SAID THERE WOULD BE MAJOR CHANGES IF WE DID NOT IMPROVE THIS YEAR

WTF IS LARRY DREW RETURNING AS COACH? THERE WAS AN OPTION ON HIS CONTRACT. IF WE DON’T EXERCISE IT, WE DON’T OWE HIM ANYTHING

SMH

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I don’t think the coach matters…. I have probably watched NBA basketball for the last time… They play NO structured offense, NO DEFENSE. It’s basically backyard basketball played by millionaires… Pathetic at best….

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Of course ASG picked up LD’s option!! It was the cheapest option available to them! As a Thrashers fan, I feel sorry for you guys! ASG made the same promises to the hockey fans and you saw the results of those promises. As long as ASG owns the team it will NEVER be successful! Get used to the same results or worse!

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“Slim, everyone knows the season starts with the playoffs..when youve got 16 teams in a 32 season league in the postseason, it’s really not an accomplishment that you are just above average…” – KevinM

I’m not sure what you meant by the above statement [excerpt]. Yes, as currently constituted, 16 out of 30 teams qualify for the [NBA] playoffs. I don’t know what you mean by “…in a 32 season league in the postseason…” as the NBA has been in existence for well over four decades. At the present time, there are 30 teams in the NBA which is comprised of two conferences [Eastern & Western] and three divisions in each conference; each division has five teams.

http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

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I swear someone keeps stealing my nametag lol.

ASG knows what we need the only thing is they aren’t willing to pay Blank is willing to pay to bring home the hardware someone start a petition to make Blank buy this team damnit.

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Why not trade Josh Smith for the first pick and get Davis kid from Kentucky i know i am dreaming but why not go for the top prize .

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OB, the best way to win a playoff game….see your Laker stat.
OKC gets that game out of their head and gets to come right back and right the ship…advantage OKC

No way a Hawk team ever approaches a FTA number like that in the playoffs…we simply don’t like the contact.

Its sad that Marvin’s best attribute is at the FT line. No defense to intimidate him.

The ASG on the beach right now laughing at the bloggers…..

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@ O’Brien

Why amnesty Kirk his contract is over right now.
Marvin is really the only amnesty option here not Joe

@ Ryan

chances we get the #1 from Charolette is slim unless we give up Horford and Teague or even Smith then again nevermind I’d rather stick with Horford don’t know how Davis will turn out college is different from the pros.

Look at Tyreke Evans one minute he’s a star now he’s being shopped around in favor of Demarcus Cousins.

Our #1 priority is to get rid of Joe Johnson he’s shown he’s all about the money that’s it nothing more cause if he wasn’t then #1 he would have put up better numbers, and #1 he would have produced all star stats this crap I saw this year wasn’t All-star nor even remotely superstar caliber.

Priority #2 Get rid of Marvin The Duck Williams he’s a bust it’s over there is no well he still got NO! he ain’t got ish the dude is a dud we’ve seen all we can of Mr. Super Sixth Man out of UNC Williams he’s not even a Role Player at best he’s an end of bench guy that only gets played every so often.

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IMO, the only type of FAs who come here have a year or 2 left or they can’t nail down a starting spot on their current team.
Case in point: Eric Bledsoe. I don’t think he will be in LA much longer. He isn’t leaping over CP3 and he will want his own gig. He is on a team option (no brainer) and then a QO. He will have to wait it out.

The only way this city will get any ’superstar’ is via the draft. Yet, this management team hasn’t taken that approach as they view the draft as a crapshoot. And based on Sund’s past record, I gotta agree with them.

Ray, Davis IMO is as good a lock for pro success as there will be in this draft. There isn’t a big need for PFs. Will he have to work on things? Of course. But get him with the right mentor (Ewing?), then you’ll see his growth.

I would do Al and Teague if that’s what it took to get him. I could then turn around and bring in Marquis Teague (UK again!) and you have your future with Davis being the defensive backbone:

Davis (6M)/ Al (12M) / T-Mac (1.5M) / Joe (19M) / Marquis Teague (1.5M).
Those numbers are solid for at least 2-3 years.

I take my shot with that kind of team, but would rather move Josh because Davis can take up the slack for what defense we lose with Josh.

That gives you 39-40M going into next year. You can then fill a bench with that 20M.

Would our lethargic management group consider it? Of course not.

Seriously, if ORL was smart, they should shoot for moving D12 for the #1 and MJ could roll the dice for one year. But if they’re hiring Ewing, perhaps the commradarie isn’t there like we thought.

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Najeh Davenpoop

May 18th, 2012
9:28 pm

FTPB

LOL . . tell that to the Indiana Pacers or the Sixers.

What exactly have the Pacers and Sixers accomplished? The Sixers beat a team whose best player by far was injured the entire series, and the Pacers beat a team whose best player by far was injured the entire series. The Sixers are well on their way to getting destroyed by Boston in Round 2 and getting booed by their home crowd. I give the Pacers credit for playing hard and going up 2-1 on Miami, but the main reason for this is Miami’s complete and utter lack of big man depth behind Bosh, which is a problem against a team that has good players at PF and C like Indiana.

Miami has the two best players in that series, but if Bosh is out, the Pacers have the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th best players in that series. Asking former or current All Stars like Hibbert, Granger, West, etc. to step up against a two man team surrounded by scrubs is nothing like asking players like Zaza and Marvin to step up for an entire series, let alone an entire season, to compensate for the loss of Josh.

Well they’ve accomplished more than us this season, that’s for sure. Sixers tied the series 2 – 2. They’re simply tougher than the Hawks, so the physical play of the Celtics doesn’t bother them as much, as it did us.

Pacers are using their overall talent to take it right to Miami. Funny how Bosh is all of a sudden so important to the Heat now, when people has been clowning that dude ever since he came to Miami. But now that he’s down, and the Pacers have exploited the soft underbelly of the Heat, he’s so important to Miami’s success . . despite the Heat having 2 superstars who are currently selling them out.

**********************************

You’ve been one of the biggest proponents of Jeff Teague from Day 1. When he was finally given the chance to play the way he needs to be playing, he responded with his best game of the series. And he did it without really dominating the ball. Probably should’ve been used a little more in that game actually, instead of the offense going through JJ and T-Mac.

Is is a coincidence that he had that type of game without Josh on the floor not giving him the ball after rebounds . . or not having to see Josh wave him off when he actually has a better shot?

As for the other guys, they simply played their roles . . collectively. T-Mac finally got some minutes, and produced, before he got hurt. Marvin played horribly offensively, but stepped into Josh’s role as a rebounder. The two big scrub centers scored 10 points and grabbed 9 rebounds. Hinrich played good defense.

On a night in which the Hawks shoot an abysmal 6 – 37 on shots 16+ feet and out, the Hawks compensated by scoring 52 points in the paint

Once again, all of this is completely irrelevant in light of the fact that the Hawks put up their worst offensive rating of the series in Game 3, the game Josh missed. So Teague plays a little better, Marvin grabs some boards, the Hawks put up an offensive stinker and lose, and this is evidence to you that they can trade Josh and be just fine?

No. The reason why we can trade Josh Smith and be fine, is because we have Al Horford and Zaza to replace him. Re-sign a guy like Ivan and maybe find some other big man that can play either good position defense, or block a few shots, and the Hawks will be fine.

What may just happen though, is that Al Horford ( given greater offensive responsibility ) will have the same season Josh Smith had . . with much more offensive efficiency.

**********************************

Josh is a major reason why this team stays out of balance on the offensive end. It’s not a coincidence that this team was the #2 offensively rated team in the 2009 – 10 season, when Josh basically abandoned the jumpshot and played 15 feet and in. It’s also the season in which he grabbed almost 3 offensive rebounds a game, something the team did very well collectively that season.

Yeah, they were the #2 offensive team that year because they dominated the offensive glass, not because of better offensive balance or better shooting from the field. How did that work out when they went up against a team in the playoffs with the best rebounder in the league, who had a size advantage over every player the Hawks threw at him?

The 2009 – 10 Hawks were the 4th best offensively rated team in the HISTORY of the franchise and by far a better offensive team than anything we’ve had in the past 8 years here. They also shot 47% FG, higher than any of the 2 teams Drew has coached ( despite him being a better offensive coach ).

The Hawks got the beatdown vs Orlando because the players were scared to mix it up against Dwight, and JJ had a horrific series against them.

****************

He’s not the SOLE reason why this team finished 5th in defense. Josh is an elite help defender and a slightly above average man defender. He is the unquestioned defensive leader of the team.

But once again, you’ve been one of the biggest proponents of Jeff Teague. You think Teague playing the point full time, and not Bibby or Jamal, helped the Hawks to achieve that #5 ranking? And both JJ and Hinrich are good defensive guards. Underrated defensive guards actually.

Sure, replacing Bibby and Jamal with Teague helped. Doesn’t change the fact that Josh is still the linchpin of this team’s defense. The addition of Iman Shumpert didn’t stop DPOY voters from recognizing that Chandler is the linchpin of that team’s D. No different with the Hawks and Josh.

You keep talking about one weakness of Josh’s game — his unwillingness to consistently play around the rim — and trying to say this outweighs his positive contributions to the extent that his positive contributions are replaceable by far lesser players. This is no different than taking one strength of Jamal’s game — his ability to score — and saying that this outweighs his other deficiencies to the extent that his scoring alone justifies keeping him on the floor. You’re doing the exact same thing High-sider does with Jamal and applying it to Josh, and you’re just as wrong as he is.

No denying that Josh is the leader of the defense. But I keep talking about that one weakness, the one MAJOR WEAKNESS, because it effects the entire team.

And with him being the #1 offensive guy now, this team will be more out of balance than ever.

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“Rod,

I dont think as highly of Jamal as you do, but one thing we can probably agree on is the impact of coaching. If LD knew how to handle/use a guy like Jamal (or a JR Smith) effectively, they would be good additions…” – O’Brien

He [LD] handled/used him [Jamal Crawford] well enough to advance past the first round [of the playoffs] last postseason. With Crawford this postseason, the Hawks could’ve advanced to the ECF or perhaps the NBA Finals, that is if the Hawks would’ve played the Pacers in the ECF.

P.S. I don’t think Hawks’ management would waste its amnesty “right[s]” on Kirk Hinrich’s expiring contract [or a contract in its last year].

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Wolfwarrior1
May 18th, 2012
1:48 pm

Whyyyyyyyyyy???????? For the love of GOD whyyyyyyy!!!!!! What is the goal each year? “HEY EVERYBODY LETS STRIVE TO MAKE IT TO THE FIRST OR SECOND ROUND OF THE PLAYOFF THEN TANK!!!!!!”
__________________

Well, based on the past 44 years, that IS the goal.

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It’s kind of difficult to build through the draft when your HC(Woodson)is obsessed with veteran players and refuses to develop and utilize the players the GM drafts. The Hawks could easily become a championship caliber team with the acquisition of a quality SF and an athletic, DEF minded, rebounding center, either as a starter or backup.

Personally, I think Sund did an outstanding job of putting together a solid and talented bench, considering the financial limitations he had to deal with. The strength of this team during this grueling season, with all of our numerous injuries, was our bench. I would look to return all of them except Stackhouse, JCollins, and maybe TMac and/or VRad.

Marvin, Ivan, Green, Pargo, Draft pick(Big) or Zaza, Dampier, G or combo guard, would make for a very talented, deep, and versatile bench. Drafting a SF in the mode of say Danny Granger would give our starting lineup far more balance and scoring ability. JJ shouldn’t be the one trying to penetrate, he should be the beneficiary of those who can do it much more efficiently, like Teague and our new SF.

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the buster
May 18th, 2012
2:24 pm

For how much longer? Other teams that were a couple of years helplessly behind, a re now ahead of the Hawks, and some of them are still in playoffs. Why?
_______________________

For the answer to your question, see Slimjr’s post at 2:35 p.m. (May 18)

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@DawgNole

It’s not a joke

I wish in some backwater world it was, but this is reality my friend.

@ KevinM

I think Davis is going to be great, but people always say for every Derrick Rose and Kevin Durant there is Kwame Brown and Sam Bowie.

Honestly it’s been a minute since we’ve had a blunder as the #1 pick last one I can remember being Greg Oden and surprisingly people talking about bringing him here which would be the worse thing to ever do.

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atlnative
May 18th, 2012
2:52 pm

Coach Drew,Thanks for returning to the Atlanta Hawks. If you can Stop Josh Smith from shooting three pointers,and let Jeff Teague break down the opposing defenses,this team can win about 57 wins a year.
______________________

And lose once again in the first or second round of the playoffs.

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Good move. Drew is a good coach that held this team together with kite string and band-aids.

Seriously, Marvin Williams, Jeff Teague, Twin, Ivan……no JJ (he mailed it in), no Al, and even Za Za with injuries.

The issue is not with the Coach. The issue is with that max contract to about the 50th best player in the league.

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Ken Strickland
May 18th, 2012
4:25 pm

You can whine, cry, complain and b!tch all you want, but LDrew did an excellent job of keeping his team in the hunt and moving this team forward under a trying schedule. It makes his accomplishment even more impressive when you consider the financial constraints he had to work with. When you add the brutal schedule his Hawks had to endure, and the fact they led the league in gms lost to injuries, he should have been extended.
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Oh, lord. It’s Mr. Delusional again. And Mr. Excuse Maker. And Mr. Admirer of Mediocrity. All rolled into one convenient package.

Talk about whining!

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xfan
May 18th, 2012
6:05 pm

Time the BS stops..hawks are happy to always be 2nd best.
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Actually, 2nd best would represent a huge improvement for this team. But it’s never happened.

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benjamin
May 18th, 2012
7:14 pm

I am trying to get 50,000 Hawks fan to join me in buying into the team. $2000 a piece will give us a $100 million.
__________________

Hell, they oughta be paying US to watch.

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tyger
May 18th, 2012
9:24 pm

LD did a marvelous job with the Hawks this year…
_________________________

Absolutely stunning how some of these folks define “marvelous.”

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Buddy Grizzard
May 19th, 2012
2:12 am

“Prior to landing on the Spurs’ doorstep, Diaw hadn’t played much defense in years, but here he is grinding away for Popovich in May.”

Diaw hadn’t played defense IN YEARS, but he arrives on a team with championship culture, and see what happens. When Josh Smith lands on a team with championship culture, he will be an All-Star and All-NBA for years to come. He could have been that in Atlanta if the Hawks had hired a coach capable of instilling such a culture.
_____________________

I’ve long said this city’s “culture of losing and of accepting mediocrity” is a big part of the problem. You’ve said it quite well here yourself.

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This is the main reason I don’t blame Josh for wanting to leave no one in GA cares about Basketball as they claim they just see stars for the most part. To most people it’s like a big party when the popular guy shows up ex. Kobe, Durant, Lebron, or Paul Pierce the party is great. When it’s not so great guys like Kevin Love or Lamarcus Alridge are here. Not saying these guys are bad, but fans see this party as a snooze fest basically.

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i have posted several times form my iphone and have had it blocked for some mysterious reason like about six or seven times now. not sure but wonder if dawgnole complained about my grave errors to the ajc and has had me and my iphone disconnected. heh heh

anyway i will say now in brief that the white elephant in the room is josh and what to do with him and his pending contract. my opinion is to trade him for tow or three players and build around teague, jj and al. dont let the ld news distract us. it was expected and anyone thinking otherwise has not followed this organization. doing something proactive with josh would of course be out of character but i continue to hope for and have three players like a big, a perimeter defender and a three point expert walk through the door or santa claus, the way rod continues to say that jamal is a difference maker and santa came through his chimney last night.

o’b the officiating last night was an abomination. when they called a foul on harden after gasol and chopped him two straight times and all harden seemed to do was to turn and run away i pretty much turned of the tube until later in the game. i dont get it sometimes except to know i am watching wwf and i am thinking about giving up the nba forever. yeah the lakers had to make em but it allows an old team to catch its breath and it also extends the game for the winner of all the free throws.

42 shots, those thunder guys are thugs arent they?

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DawgNole

May 19th, 2012
4:13 pm

Ken Strickland
May 18th, 2012
4:25 pm

You can whine, cry, complain and b!tch all you want, but LDrew did an excellent job of keeping his team in the hunt and moving this team forward under a trying schedule. It makes his accomplishment even more impressive when you consider the financial constraints he had to work with. When you add the brutal schedule his Hawks had to endure, and the fact they led the league in gms lost to injuries, he should have been extended.
____________________

“Oh, lord. It’s Mr. Delusional again. And Mr. Excuse Maker. And Mr. Admirer of Mediocrity. All rolled into one convenient package.

Talk about whining!”

Freaking funny! Hehehehehehhehehe

44 more years of excuses= 2056

The Starship Enterprise maybe fully operational by then? Scottie we need more warp drive! Aye Captain!

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The [Atlanta] Dream is playing the [Indiana] Fever on WNBA LiveAccess.

WNBA LiveAccess @ $4.99 > NBA [Premium] League Pass @ $189 [or $169 with the $20 credit/discount]

I was never able to access [set up] my NBA League Pass broadband or mobile device account[s]. NBA League Pass and the partnering telco [telecommunication] providers need to get their technical issues straight.

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That’s it…..it’s official. The NBA is too rough. Time to go back to the leather helmets.

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doc for you:

“Allegations against the NBA

On June 10, 2008, Donaghy’s attorney filed a court document alleging, among other things, that Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and Sacramento Kings was fixed by two referees. The letter states that Donaghy “learned from Referee A that Referees A and F wanted to extend the series to seven games. Tim knew Referees A and F to be ‘company men’, always acting in the interest of the NBA, and that night, it was in the NBA’s interest to add another game to the series.”[39] The Lakers won Game 6, attempting 18 more free throws than the Kings in the fourth quarter, and went on to win the 2002 NBA Finals. The teams were not named, but the Western Conference Finals was the only seven-game series that year.[40] The document claimed that Donaghy told federal agents that to increase television ratings and ticket sales, “top executives of the NBA sought to manipulate games using referees”.[39] It also said that NBA officials would tell referees to not call technical fouls on certain players, and states that a referee was privately reprimanded by the league for ejecting a star player in the first quarter of a January 2000 game.[39] Stern denied the accusations, calling Donaghy a “singing, cooperating witness”.[4 -Wikipedia-

Hmmmm. Where there’s smoke……………

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atlnative
May 18th, 2012
2:52 pm

Coach Drew,Thanks for returning to the Atlanta Hawks. If you can Stop Josh Smith from shooting three pointers,and let Jeff Teague break down the opposing defenses,this team can win about 57 wins a year.
______________________

And lose once again in the first or second round of the playoffs.

*******

Co-sign

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o’b who do you think is more fragile dh or josh? we saw how dh handled it, i dont want to see josh make us more hostages than we already are to the actions of the basg.

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for spur fans:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1198491/index.htm

and not so much kg fans. heh heh

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rod if you could saty these things about jamal and his career aganst the celts then you might have an argument, to put in context from a sports illlustrated article on duncan:

5 His Buddy KG

Just kidding, as this might count in his favor. In fact, Duncan hates Kevin Garnett. Hates him the way liberals hate Sean Hannity. This information comes from very reliable sources, who talk about how KG has made a career of trying to punk Duncan, baiting him and slapping him and whispering really weird smack into his ear. They talk about how funny this is, because the worst thing you can do as an opponent is piss off Duncan. Then, as Malik Rose says, “he f—— destroys you.” Duncan’s lifetime numbers versus Garnett’s teams, by the way: 19.4 points per game, 11.6 boards and a 44–17 record, including the postseason.

dont think jamal measures up lifetime, not even close and there is no argument to suggest jamal had it in him to be a difference maker this time in his career when he really never was before.

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kd is so much more deadly that queen. i remember when queen did that during regular season games but he has not been able to pull that trigger like durant has done repeatedly when it counts. nice, go thunder!

not sure i know who i could pull for if it comes to it the thunder or the spurs because i like and respect how much they play. take that back if westbrook would stop playing with is mattel popgun after a big shot.

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doc
May 19th, 2012
6:47 pm

i have posted several times form my iphone and have had it blocked for some mysterious reason like about six or seven times now. not sure but wonder if dawgnole complained about my grave errors to the ajc and has had me and my iphone disconnected. heh heh
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You know better than that, doc. I share your frustration about the idiotic filters that block perfectly legitimate posts–even those filled with “grave errors.”

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test

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LD deserves another chance.

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achieving the goal of mediocre playoff team is the winnin’ formula the the Hawks. i’m sure their goal is within reach next season too…continued success to the most uninspiring team i have ever watched.

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“probably” be

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This is definitely the most NEGATIVE MINDED blog ever. What else can you say when a blogger takes the intelligent positive approach to dealing with the Hawks situation, and he gets attacked by a NEGATIVE MINDED MORON for interferring with his NEGATIVE MINDED BITCH, WHINE AND MOAN session.

One has to be an absolute DUMBASS to continue whinning, crying, and bitching about decisions that have already been made, and circumstances that aren’t going to change anytime soon. Larry Drew will be our HC next yr, DEAL WITH IT, and try to discuss intelligent and logical ways for the team to improve. As I write the phrase INTELLIGENT AND LOGICAL WAYS TO IMPROVE, I realize I’m wasting time dealing with an issue, in this case a flawed mentality, that’s a done deal and isn’t going to change

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@ Ken S.

How can you actually blame people for being so negative we’ve been fed this same crap for some years now.

At one point I always thought LA Clippers would be the laughing stock of the NBA forever even the Cleveland Cavs, but now we are why because we’re the only team would gets to the 2nd round every year calling that progress never reaching the ECF in the history of the franchise here.

People talk about the Falcons and Braves, but Hawks really are the worse why because they’ve never been to a National Championship here.

Falcons have been a Superbowl didn’t win, but they’ve been.
Braves won a World Series and kept getting to the national stage in the 90’s.
Even Georgia Tech while not a professional sport has been on the map the hawks NOTHING!

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Ken Strickland – What is positive about this organization ?

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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D wade will be gone if Heat lose this series.

Joe and 1st round for D wade.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Teague, Dwade, Josh, Horford, Zaza

Pargo, Tmac, Marvin, Ivan, Melo

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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[...] Journal Constitution: Larry Drew will coach the Atlanta Hawks next season.  The team’s next move will be an attempt to secure the entire roster through [...]

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I would also move up in round two and pick Fab Melo. We need a project center and, he is as agile as Roy Hibbert. Roy Hibbert was developed, he did not arrive ready to roll. What have we got to lose? Why not? Hopefully, he is not a Darko Milicic.

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drmaryb – Hey Sweetie how do feel about Javale Mcgee ? I see there is a lot of support on this blog for Javae Mcgee.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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If the Hawks could Trade Joe and 1st for D wade and amnesty Marvin contract, Hawks can sign Mcgee.

Teague, D wade, Josh, Horford, Javale

Pargo, Green, Tmac, Ivan, ZaZA

Could be the best team in Hawks History.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Ken Strickland
May 20th, 2012
9:07 am

This is definitely the most NEGATIVE MINDED blog ever. What else can you say when a blogger takes the intelligent positive approach to dealing with the Hawks situation, and he gets attacked by a NEGATIVE MINDED MORON for interferring with his NEGATIVE MINDED BITCH, WHINE AND MOAN session. . . .

As I write the phrase INTELLIGENT AND LOGICAL WAYS TO IMPROVE, I realize I’m wasting time dealing with an issue, in this case a flawed mentality, that’s a done deal and isn’t going to change
____________________

So stop wasting your time–and ours–posting the same BS excuses we’ve been fed for 44 years.

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Ray
May 20th, 2012
9:57 am

@ Ken S.

How can you actually blame people for being so negative we’ve been fed this same crap for some years now.

BIG DOG
May 20th, 2012
10:07 am

Ken Strickland – What is positive about this organization ?
_________________________

He can’t answer those questions, gentlemen. He’s too busy making excuses, living in denial, and taking potshots at all the (gasp) NEGATIVE bloggers on here.

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FIRE LD

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Injuries are not excuses… They are a reason.

I know it sounds nice to think you can overcome anything, but that isn’t true…. The football fan seems to understand this. If you have injuries to 3 of you top 6 players or you starting QB(Like DRose), you are not going to win.

It isn’t a coincidence that all the teams left are the healthiest in the playoffs…. Miami could lose because they lost Bosh and Wade isn’t healthy…But that is an excuse, RIGHT.

What is Excuse-
My owner is cheap
My coach is stupid
My GM Sucks
We should have signed player X
The Refs cheated
These are excuses…

Injuries are REASONS…. The world isn’t an ABSOLUTE, some of us understand this and adjust our expectations accordingly…But we live in the REAL world.

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Well Rusty;

In your world LD makes the trades ?

” KH as he isnt worth8 mil & LD will always play him
trying to justify his stupid trade with Washington ”

Rusty:
you are aware Cap`n Kirk`s contract has expired … correct ?

Why would you cringe Rusty ? You have already stated:

You wish our Hawks to lose so that LD will be fired !

I would think a trade;
in your pessimistic world would be just the ticket.
Another reason for gloom, dispair, and agony … to rid yourself of LD.

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It seems to be people like you that are content with what is happening with this team even tho they have the potential to be very good if they had a coach like Sloan,pops or Doc coaching them by that I mean a real coach.

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Grandpa just let us call a spade a spade & not write a lot of bullcrap.

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Rusty,

There’s a difference between thinking a coach did a good enough job to be retained, and being “content with what is happening with this team”.

A BIG difference.

Just because YOU think that all we need is an elite coach, doesn’t necessarily make it true.

Someone can think LD is worth having and STILL have major concerns about the way the franchise is managed.

But that may be too nuanced a view for you to even acknowledge. C’est la vie.

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Rufus1
May 20th, 2012
12:19 pm

Injuries are not excuses… They are a reason . . . .

Injuries are REASONS…. The world isn’t an ABSOLUTE, some of us understand this and adjust our expectations accordingly…But we live in the REAL world.
____________________

Have injuries been an excuse–oops, I mean a reason–for 44 years of playoff failure?

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Ken Strickland
May 20th, 2012
2:15 pm

With what amounted to an entirely new bench, very little time to incorporate these new players due to the lockout, shortened training camp, preseason, and no consistent practice time, along with a NBA record brutal schedule and NBA leading gms lost to injuries, LDrew did one helluva job finishing 4th in the Eastern Conference.
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Wah, wah, wah. More tired excuses from Mr. Happy With Mediocrity. Every team had to deal with the unique issues presented by the lockout. What’s the excuse for 44 years w/o getting past Round 2?

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Ken Strickland,

Do you see the Hawks trying to trade Joe Johnson or trading Josh Smith if they cannot work on an extension or a new contract by the trading deadline?

Also do you want to see them bring back Ivan Johnson?Do you feel they should get rid of Marvin Williams?

Who positions would you like for them to address via the draft?

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Ken discussing what it will take for this team to get better is pure nonsense as they will never listen to anything we have to say but for sure they will continue to make stupid moves as always.

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Dawgnole,

Injuries may not be the reason for the other 44 years, but it is a damn good reason this for the Hawks and a number of other teams.

I will only judge this team based on their accomplishments and expectations…. So for me, that is about 5-8 years.

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@ Just Joe

Don’t remind me of that I’m upset we could have had Chris Singleton and still held onto Jordan Crawford. I don’t know what either will turn out to be, but they both had major upside when being drafted.

If we trading Josh Smith I’m saying we neeed Top 5 draft pick at best basically I’d like the NO Honerts #4 and their other pick at #10 that’s how much I think Smith is worth oh and give me Trevor Ariza and give them Marvin Williams.

As for Joe Johnson he just needs to go.

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Love the way the Pacers play. Although the Miami are getting more calls, they are playing as if they are not going to be denied….

Lebron has committed 3 fouls thru 4 games….LOL, yeah right….

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Ray – Joe could be traded to Heat for D wade if lose this series.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Its not the players or the coach fans are fed up with the owners ASG Hawks fans want change yes we have made the playoffs back to back but that’s all we have done they keep saying something will change but it never happens under these owners we can’t spend any money and missed out drafting good players .

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This team had a good year because of Josh, clearly this teams MVP and inspite of another disappointing performance and season from Al Horford.

I wish Michael Cunningham would quit licking Al’s nuts so this team can develop by trading the lazy heartless bum.

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Don’t worry every thing is great as grandpa says LD is really a good coach.

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Dawgnole,

It is called a process…. From 13 win team to 5 straight years of playoffs… I don’t know how that if failure but I live in the real word. Where winning is hard and should be respected and not some fantasy attainable by anyone that wants it.

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DAWGNOLE-Please explain how you’re negative attitude and disappointment in the teams performance over the last 44yrs changed a damned thing for you, the team, or anyone else? IT’S NOTHING BUT A WASTE OF TIME, SELF DEFEATING, AS WELL AS SELF SERVING.

RUSTY-Apparently you feel continuing to be negatie by discussing what we shouda, coulda, woulda done, makes far more sense to you than realistically discussing what might actually be done to improve the team? That obviously makes sense only to you and those who think like you.

BRIDADIERJERRY-JSmith has only 1yr remaining on his contract to JJs 4, and he seems to want out of Atlanta. He also has a smaller salary, as well as far more trade value, which makes him the most likely 1 of the 2 to be traded. With Horford’s desire and ability to play PF, Josh can be replaced far easier, cheaperand more effectively than JJ.

At any rate, one of them needs to go. We’ve been unable to maintain any OFF consistency and ball movement because one of them is always stopping ball movement by going ISO. Getting a consistently productive SF and a functional starting or backup center to team with Zaza is a must.

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rufus1
May 20th, 2012
4:53 pm

Dawgnole,

It is called a process…. From 13 win team to 5 straight years of playoffs… I don’t know how that if failure but I live in the real word. Where winning is hard and should be respected and not some fantasy attainable by anyone that wants it.
_______________________

Is it a process to go from a Round 2 exit last year to a Round 1 exit this year? Is it progress?

You can continue to dance around the 44-year history all you want, but that is a huge issue for this city in terms of developing a passionate fanbase. And it’s not just the Hawks, obviously. ATL has ONE championship in 155 seasons of competition. That’s the real world.

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Ken Strickland
May 20th, 2012
5:55 pm

DAWGNOLE-Please explain how you’re negative attitude and disappointment in the teams performance over the last 44yrs changed a damned thing for you, the team, or anyone else? IT’S NOTHING BUT A WASTE OF TIME, SELF DEFEATING, AS WELL AS SELF SERVING.
___________________

Ken, please learn how to spell and how to stop screaming in your posts. Then you can explain to me how your satisfaction with mediocrity has “changed a damned thing for you, the team, or anyone else.” You can also explain to me how your delusional thinking is anything but “a waste of time, self defeating, as well as self serving.”

Happy, happy, happy with a half-century’s worth of postseason failure–that’s our Mr. Ken. Maybe you should slip on a skirt and run out there with the Hawks’ cheerleaders. You can smile like they do and continue to “think positive” after yet another early exit.

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and the beat goes on.

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“How in the world is trading JJ and Marvin for a trade exception that we will NOT use, a good move? ”

Who said anything about not using it?

Utah traded Boozer for a trade exception and used that exception to acquire Al Jefferson, which ended up being an upgrade for them. There’s no reason the Hawks couldn’t make a similar type of move by trading Joe and/or Marvin.

The whole idea behind clearing cap space is that it will be used eventually to acquire someone better. Obviously if you are of the opinion that the Hawks will let $18 million in cap space just sit there, then it does no good, but I think a Joe-sized trade exception is more likely to be used by this team than a Childress-sized trade exception.

“The one thing you DON’T do, is trade any of these guys for scraps, just to get them off the books. The teams that aspire to win championships or advance deep into the playoffs, at least trade their assets, for other assets that they can use.”

Maybe not frequently, but it has happened. Just last summer, the world champion Dallas Mavericks let Tyson Chandler walk for nothing because they believed it is in their best long-term interest to keep cap flexibility to pursue free agents.

Every team weighs costs and benefits when making a trade, and when you have a guy who already isn’t giving you enough benefit for the cost and whose cost-benefit ratio is only going to get worse from here on out, the right move is to clear him off the books, especially when he likely isn’t leading to an appreciable increase in the win column.

I realize there are differing opinions of Joe’s value on this blog, but at this stage of his career, I honestly think the Hawks can replace him with someone like Arron Afflalo and lose in 6 games in the first round just as well as they currently do. They did go 4-2 with 3 wins over playoff teams without Joe this season. At Joe’s salary, the value he provides in the win column is nowhere near enough. And yeah, you can say that about other players on this team as well, but other players’ contracts don’t cripple the Hawks’ ability to improve the roster the way Joe’s contract does.

Any serious rebuilding/retooling of this team has to start with moving Joe’s contract. With the amount he gets paid and the trade value of the other key players on the team, there is no way you can keep Joe and seriously expect to upgrade this roster beyond its current 2nd round ceiling. There are, on the other hand, ways you can realistically expect to keep Teague/Al/Josh, dump Joe/Marvin, and improve the roster beyond its current 2nd round ceiling.

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The Pacers are in a much better long-term position than the Hawks mainly because they have cap space. Two years ago, three of their four highest-paid players were Mike Dunleavy, TJ Ford, and Troy Murphy. Needless to say, none of them were making the impact in the win column that would come close to justifying their salaries. So the Pacers let Ford and Dunleavy walk for nothing, traded Murphy for Darren Collison, made a couple of solid draft picks, and now they are a second round team with enough cap space to acquire another high-priced player via free agency or trade.

Three of their four highest paid players from two years ago, totaling nearly $30 million in annual salary at the time, and all they had to show for it after they left was Darren Collison.

Would I trade Joe and Marvin for, say, Eric Bledsoe and cap space? Hell yeah I would, and I would feel quite confident that in two years the Hawks would be in much better shape than they would be with Joe and Marvin on the roster.

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“Well they’ve accomplished more than us this season, that’s for sure. Sixers tied the series 2 – 2. They’re simply tougher than the Hawks, so the physical play of the Celtics doesn’t bother them as much, as it did us.”

So the Sixers and Pacers are in the exact same position the Hawks were in a year ago. How did that work out for the Hawks? How did all that “stepping up” Joe and Josh and Jamal and Al did work out?

I am not crowning the Sixers or Pacers with anything until they win their series. All the good things I said about the Pacers’ future in the previous post aside, they have done nothing more than last year’s Hawks up to this point.

And regardless, like I said before, bringing up the Sixers and Pacers doesn’t relate at all to your original point. All Stars like Iguodala and Granger stepping up against superstars in a playoff series is nothing like role players like Zaza and Ivan stepping up permanently to replace what Josh provides. Zaza and Ivan will never be the help defender and shot creator Josh is, because they simply don’t have that level of talent. You can’t ask people to step up and do something they are incapable of doing. It’s not going to happen on a regular basis.

“What may just happen though, is that Al Horford ( given greater offensive responsibility ) will have the same season Josh Smith had . . with much more offensive efficiency.”

Al Horford, for all the good things he does, has never shown the ability to consistently create his own shot even in one on one situations, let alone draw double teams and create shots for other people like Josh does. Again, you cannot expect someone to “step up” and do something they are incapable of doing. Maybe Al develops those skills down the road, but he is not going to magically become Tim Duncan just because he gets the ball more. His offensive efficiency is where it is in large part because he has very little shot creating responsibility. The greater his offensive responsibility becomes, the worse his efficiency will get, just like with any other player.

“No. The reason why we can trade Josh Smith and be fine, is because we have Al Horford and Zaza to replace him. Re-sign a guy like Ivan and maybe find some other big man that can play either good position defense, or block a few shots, and the Hawks will be fine.”

There are no LeBrons on this team, so everyone including Josh is tradeable and replaceable. But that does not mean that the replacement for Josh is on this roster. If they go out and get Ibaka, and Teague learns how to consistently set up his teammates with good shots over the offseason, then sure, Josh probably won’t be missed. But Zaza and Al and Ivan are not going to step up and do what Josh does game in and game out, because they simply do not have the talent to do so.

If “stepping up” was that easy, the NBA would be like football. Just get a good coach and a bunch of role playing Andy Daltons who fit into the system and you can win. That is never how the NBA has been. Even the ‘04 Pistons, the one lone exception to the rule that superior talent wins in the NBA, had the league’s best defender and rebounder.

“The 2009 – 10 Hawks were the 4th best offensively rated team in the HISTORY of the franchise ”

Ask DawgNole about the history of this franchise.

“and by far a better offensive team than anything we’ve had in the past 8 years here. They also shot 47% FG, higher than any of the 2 teams Drew has coached ( despite him being a better offensive coach ).”

They shot 0.6% better from the field than last year’s 44 win, 20th-in-offensive-efficiency team that advanced farther in the playoffs. The offensive efficiency they posted was primarily because of their excellence on the offensive glass. I don’t deny that they were a great regular season offensive team. My point is that the way they compiled that great offensive efficiency was not sustainable in the playoffs as Orlando emphatically proved.

“The Hawks got the beatdown vs Orlando because the players were scared to mix it up against Dwight, and JJ had a horrific series against them.”

No, they got a beatdown vs. Orlando because Woody’s insistence on doubling Dwight left Orlando’s shooters wide open, the players Woody used on Dwight were physically incapable of mixing it up with him, the team was unable to dominate the offensive glass against a better rebounder, and the player Woody had at his disposal who was physically capable of mixing it up against Dwight got a DNP-CD for the entire series.

Once again, you assume that 6′10″ 240 pound Al Horford can simply “step up” and battle with the 6′11″ 270 pound, athletically superior Dwight Howard. That’s not how it works. Al and Josh couldn’t mix it up with Dwight because they were incapable of doing so, due to Dwight’s superior talent and physical skill. They can try as hard as they want, but without a bigger body like Twin to occupy Dwight, they are never going to step up and battle him on a regular basis. That’s why the Hawks lost that series. The method they used to compile that great regular season offensive efficiency number — crashing the offensive glass and giving themselves extra possessions — did not work against a team that was bigger and better on the defensive glass than they were.

“While a great defensive rebounder, his unwillingness to play close to the rim prevents him from being an ELITE overall rebounder. If he blocked anyone out, he could average 12 rebounds a game.”

OK, well, he has the 3rd highest overall rebound rate of anyone in this year’s playoffs. How did that change the team’s fortunes?

“But I keep talking about that one weakness, the one MAJOR WEAKNESS, because it effects the entire team.”

Everyone on this team has major weaknesses that affect the entire team. If you looked at it that way, ship Teague out because he isn’t aggressive enough, ship Joe out because he takes ten seconds to figure out what he wants to do every time, ship Al out because he can’t create his own shot, ship Zaza out because he can’t finish. All of those weaknesses affect the way the entire team approaches the game. There are no LeBrons on this team.

I try to avoid bringing up individual strengths and weaknesses and look at the overall contributions each player brings. Josh’s overall contributions this season were greater than anyone else on the team, even with that weakness, and this roster does not have the personnel to step up and replace that.

“And with him being the #1 offensive guy now, this team will be more out of balance than ever.”

Not necessarily. Generally speaking, when they run the offense through him in the post, he stays closer to the basket and the team as a whole gets good shots. When they get away from posting him up, he starts drifting to the perimeter.

Of course, this gets thrown out of whack when he’s guarded by a bigger player like KG, who forces him to the perimeter and makes him try to face up and inevitably shoot jumpers.

There is no true #1 option on this team, but Josh is the closest thing the Hawks have. If the Hawks are going to go out and get a true #1 option somehow, I’d rather pair him with the best player currently on the roster than one of the supporting players on the current roster, and that’s before taking salaries into consideration.

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Enter Comments

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Does any Hawk care? That may sound silly, but as I watch with amazment the “real” teams that have heart in these playoffs play, I can’t help but think-what are the Hawks players thinking about themselves-having to watch other teams and they aren’t playing? I would dare to say that yes, most care, but some aren’t looking for the Naismith Trophy-meaning working hard to get their hands on one. They are just concerned about themselves-just glad to be in the NBA. That’s enough for me, they’re thinking. Some have higher goals-I just want us to have a winning record in the NBA season and possibly make the playoffs-management. Some want to make it to the second round. That’s good-but you have to want more. If management wanted more-they would have done whatever it took to put themselves in a position to move to the next round. The Hawks are stuck with what they’ve got. Now this may not be a bad thing, but how are the issues with the Hawks players not listening to, and not following the dictates of the coach. And more importantly-how can Larry Drew implement actual plays in the game of basketball and actually “coach” the game, instead of relying on individual performances of his top “mediocre” players? Josh doesn’t listen, iso-Joes not the answer, Marvin’s a bust. Deal with that question and maybe there-we’ll have an answer to the Hawks issues. The 2012-13 season is already here. What will the Hawks do, and how will they prepare in the summer for the preseason? This time-there will be no excuses. No injuries, no strike shortened season, no contract disputes, etc. What will be the excuse going forward?

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Joe Johnson for Rashard Lewis’s $13.7M buyout and the 32nd pick makes too much sense. None of Washington’s current players become unrestricted free agents until the last year of Joe’s contract. Adding Joe actually saves the Wizards $4M (pre-buyout). Wall, Johnson, Nene, and one of the top picks in this year’s draft is a decent start, especially if Wall takes the next step in his 3rd year. Oh, and Washington would pick up a $4M trade exception too (Joe’s $19.7M to Lewis’s $23.7M).

Hawks could go a number of different ways with the $6M savings. $3M would get JR Smith, who currently has a player option of $2.6M. The 32nd pick should be a decent player as well.

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@Big Ray

Don’t hate; congratulate.

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@O’Brien

Jordan Farmer averaged 4.7ppg and 4.6ppg, respectively, in the 2009 and 2010 playoffs for the Lakers. In those two NBA championship runs for the Lakers in 2009 and 2010, Jordan Farmar would be considered, at best, a [bench] filler and marginal contributor towards those [two] Lakers teams’ success. How many times has Jordan Farmar led the Lakers in scoring in the playoffs? How many times has Jordan Farmar scored 20+ points in the playoffs for the Lakers? Do you think opposing coaches and scouts prepared and developed game plans to neutralize, stop and/or contain Jordan Farmar in the playoffs for the Lakers? Are you thinking, no? I thought so. Do you think opposing coaches and scouts considered Jordan Farmar [to be] a [primary] scoring threat for the Lakers in the playoffs? I don’t think so. Next, you, O’Brien, will be trying/attempting to say/argue/propose that the Lakers should’ve kept Mark Madsen after the 2003 [regular] season because with him [Madsen] the Lakers won [two] NBA championships in 2001 and 2002 but without him [Madsen] the Lakers lost [in] the 2004 NBA Finals. O’Brien, quit playin’ [and clownin’] yourself.

P.S. O’Brien, stop listening to northcyde. Quiet as [it’s] kept, he [northcyde] is not the NBA aficionado that you [O’Brien] and he [northcyde] think he is. [shhh + smh] [Part III]

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Playing the [4] Power Forward position has nothing to do with where
Al is positioned for defensive Rebounds.

His defensive assignment would have more to do with that, than his
position on Offense.

Still a rebounder who wishes to rebound will go get the ball; regardless.

As a matter of fact;
many [4`s have led the league in rebounding.
[Case in point / K.Love]

Even if a player plays the [3] on Offense;
the coach can assign him the [5] man to defend.

It`s not rec league [beginners] where the ref makes the players
match up by positions at the jump circle.

Josh played the [3] much of the time yhis season and led our Hawks
in Rebs.

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@O’Brien

First, O’Brien, you sound (and write) a lot like northcyde with that “let’s wait and see if Jamal becomes a FA, how many ‘good’ teams will offer him [Crawford] a contract” talk/rhetoric. Get some originality (about yourself), O’Brien; think for yourself. [Part I-A]

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Incremental post was in response to the following:

@O’Brien

“…High-sider,
With Jordan Farmar, Lakers won back to back championships. Without Jordan Farmar, Lakers got swept by Dallas in the second round. So how important of a player was Jordan Farmar?

Every year is different. Orlando swept us by 101 points one year, and then we eliminate them in 6 games the next year. Teams change, players change, so Jamal is not the end all-be all for us getting to the ECF. If Al and Zaza are both healthy, we might have beaten Boston anyways.

Let’s wait and see if Jamal becomes a FA this offseason, and see which teams offer him a contract, and for how much.” – O’Brien

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Ken S

Preach on Brother

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Ken S

On one point, I must go against the grain.

JoeJohnson has gotta go.

It really has less to do with his contract and *’`Much More`’* to do
with his Basketball !

I will go more in depth later but;
I do not wish to upset nortcyde this eve.

Seriously;
the more I look at the Big Picture;
JoeGottaGo !

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Larry Drew’s half court offense is inconsistent. More ball movement is needed. I also think he needs a defensive specialist as an assistant coach AND an offensive specialist to assist with their half court game. Certainly there would be less distractions if someone would purchase the team. Drew did a decent job working with a short handed group during crunch time.

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I think trading JJ or Josh would be a mistake. Run a better half court offense and play srong defense with the players on the roster. Continue to build a strong bench. With a healthy Horford, the team would have beaten Boston and Philly.

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Gearon Jr you keep fooling those “fanatics” all you want….

28-47 means your franchise are miles behind from competing as an elite……You cant spin your garbage on most of us Sir ….

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northcyde

I was only teasin` you a little bit.

Since you and I have disagreed over Joe in the past;
I seriously do not wish to hash all that out again.

I think we are very nearly on the same page.

I feel like Josh`s trade value is high.
So any trade talk about Josh is more about getting return value.
Plus, if Josh truly wishes to leave, I say so long.

Back to Joe;
as you know I`ve harbored some negativity toward his game.
[none of my feeling currently are about his contract]

I really think joe is an albatross to the team`s growth.

Please;
we disagree, I respect your views, we understand each other.
I hold no personal grudge against Joe as he seems like a nice man.

So, debating between you and I is only going `round & `round.

We both feel a change must be made involving Joe and or Josh;
not a kaboom, but a change nonetheless.

I maybe can see where both JS + JJ and Marv would depart
and we remain competitive due to Sund being relieved,
and a new GM who has ” vision ” -along with- ” ingenuity ”
to augment those trades with assets in return.

Once again, I was not casting aspersion upon you in my previous post.
Just teasin` a bit.
G-dad

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I know JJ is probably sleep, or in Little Rock chillin, or if he is in ATL, he’s at the Velvet Room . . . but I hope he’s watching Inside the NBA right now, and seeing Chris Paul take responsibility on his team not winning this game and making it a more competitive series.

Time to start taking full responsibility JJ. Stop acting like one of the guys, and start acting like “the man”. If you’re not willing to do that, it may be time for you to go.

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Correction: Isn’t it [eerily] coincidental that Jamal Crawford’s [career]* playoff shooting percentage[s]* and scoring average[s]* are similar to the Hawks’ top two scorers [Joe Johnson and Josh Smith] in this year’s playoffs?*

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High-sider

May 21st, 2012
2:57 am

Correction: Isn’t it [eerily] coincidental that Jamal Crawford’s [career]* playoff shooting percentage[s]* and scoring average[s]* are similar to the Hawks’ top two scorers [Joe Johnson and Josh Smith] in this year’s playoffs?

**********************

And that’s exactly why we don’t need dude here. JJ and Josh have career lows in FG% this year, yet, you want to bring in another guy who shoots exactly on that level?

You just destroyed your own argument with that post and you don’t even know it

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@northcyde

“And that’s exactly why we don’t need dude here. JJ and Josh have career lows in FG% this year, yet, you want to bring in another guy who shoots exactly on that level?

You just destroyed your own argument with that post and you don’t even know it” – northcyde

Look, again, my dear [Dr. John H.] Watson [played by northcyde as I, High-sider, am Sherlock Holmes in this scenario]. Jamal Crawford’s [career] playoff scoring average of 15.8ppg is greater than [>] Kirk Hinrich’s [2012] playoff scoring average of 5.7ppg. (See my post @2:45am dated May 21, 2012.)

Dr. Watson [aka northcyde], I am using abductive reasoning [deduction] and logic which [both] encompass my “Holmesian deduction” method.

BTW, that “dear” word/term [above] – no homo…just acting out the role of Sherlock Holmes.

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High-sider,

Jamal Crawford may not have been, as you say, “the end all-be all” but he [Crawford] was a major contributor/factor towards the Hawks’ [marginal] postseason [and regular season] success..

I agree with that statement. I’m just not convinced he would have the same impact this time around, especially when you consider how the Bulls shut him down eventually.

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OB….Hawks can’t offer Josh an extension because of how he got his current deal (Hawks matched Memphis). Hawks have no way of avoiding Josh becoming an unrestricted free agent next summer.

Also, in the Marvin trade, do you not consider Prince’s deal a bad contract?

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“Even if they opt to trade JJ, they’d probably do it for expiring contracts only, and go the same route. Re-sign Josh and Teague, and stock the rest of the spots with Dollar Tree players, keeping the payroll as low as possible.”

You say this like keeping Josh instead of JJ is a bad thing.

“A disastrous move by the Mavs by the way.”

Co-sign. First Cuban let Nash walk, then Chandler. They may never get another chance to compete for a championship and they played the Thunder close. No question Chandler would have given them a chance to win that series. Dirk not getting any younger. You go all in to win now and not chase the pipe dream of Deron maybe coming a year later when Dirk is on his last leg.

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“Jamal Crawford averaged 16.3ppg and 15.4ppg, respectively, in the 2010 and 2011 playoffs for the Hawks and was the Hawks’ second leading scorer in the playoffs for two consecutive years [2010 and 2011].”

Yes, he did. He also gave up more points than he scored.

+ /- for Jamal in the playoffs:

2010 post-season: Jamal Crawford: -36

2011 post-season: Jamal Crawford: -51

His numbers are what they are. If he’s on the team this year, he gives up more points to Bradley, Rondo, Dooling, and Allen, than he scores. Just like always.

2011-12 reg. season with POR: Jamal Crawford: -13

Or go back to when he was with the Warriors.

2008-9 reg. season: Jamal Crawford: -203 (worst on the entire team)

The year before, with the Knicks?

2007-8 reg. season: Jamal Crawford: -347 (next to last, only Eddy Curry was worse)

I could go on, but the point has been made repeatedly. Dude gives up more than he scores.

Forever.

[Hands folded in benediction. Adults don't need celebrations on a blog.]

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I’m surprised that so many seem to believe that with 2 of the 3 captains and more cap space, that the Hawks can become a legit contender. I don’t see that and never have. IMO, 2 captains need to get gone and we need an upgrade at head coach. If Joe, Josh or Al are your best player, then you have a 2nd round ceiling. It is just that simple.

northcyde, interesting point about giving LD a bench of better defenders to restrict his ability to choose offense over defense. My counter is that the mythical LD offense has not quite come to pass. (The guys on the radio show said that during LD’s press conference, it was described as a “magical offense”, and then the started laughing about what has happened two years later). If you take away guys who can make things happen offensively, I’m not sure that LD’s scheme will overcome having improved defensive players in the game.

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You have the following teams with multiple 1st round Picks:

Hornets 4th and 10th (All Lottery picks are approximate, since the lottery has not occurred yet.)

Portland 6th and 11th

Houston 14th and 18th

Celtics 21 and 22

Cavs 3 and 24

Golden State 7 and 30

Also the Cavs have picks 33 and 34 in the 2nd round, GSW have 35, and Portland has 40 and 41.

The reason I mention this, is if we have to trade Josh, I would guess that a team with multiple 1st picks, or decent 2nd picks may be the best suitors. They get Josh Smith and still have a 1st pick.

And if this draft is as deep as many pundits say, high 2nd picks may be worth a look also.

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“”We made a commitment to our Knicks fans that we would put together a team that would compete for an NBA championship year in and year out,” Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan said.”

This was part of the conversation when the Knicks had no shot at CP3 and went out and grabbed Tyson Chandler as a parting gift.

You will NEVER hear the ASG have any semblance of acknowledging those who line their pockets.

They nor Rick Sund have a big move in them. We can boast and dream about what captain will be leaving, yet you have an organization that can’t make a timely decision.

Come on, it took 2 months to bring in Dampier. Are you really showing a level of faith in operation here?

Put Just Joe in as the GM for a week, and I can see more progress being made then than Sund will do this summer.

Ken S stated that Sund and LD do a great job with what resources they are given. So it was strictly the ownership group who signed Joe and Marvin? Sund had no input? Why would you have a GM if he didn’t bring the numbers to you?

The issues here are on 3 levels: ASG, Sund and LD. You can’t give LD a pass or Sund a pass because of limited resources. They are spending…they are just spending stupid. You can’t defend stupid.

Want another example? Ask Horford why he made that free throw? Did anyone on the sidelines make an attempt to ensure Al knew what the HAIL he was doing? Just a part of the culture that is Hawks basketball.

LD on his congratulatory video after he was opted in for another year:
“Since I’ve been here, where this team was and where we are today, the organization does believe in what we’re doing here”.

As much as LD might be a good coach, he isn’t a great coach, and that is what this team needs. He is no different than Woody. His results aren’t any better. I love the injury card. That will always get you additional consideration. I never hear from this organization of any dissatisfaction of their accomplishments.

“We paid you 1.5M to get us to the 1st round, and we’re gonna pay you another 1.5M to try to get to the 1st round again! Great job!”

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Chris Paul showed me some stuff in defeat – that guys a warrior. He picked that team up, and almost carried them to a win.

He’s in a contract year also I think. I wonder if he re-signs with the Clips?

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Worst Case Scenario Money wise – In 4 years you have:

JJ > 25 mill

Josh 16 mill

Al 12 mill

That’s 53 mill in 3 players – then you have Teague probably making 6 mill – 59 mill for 4 players.

ZaZa 6 mill? That’s 65 mill for 5 players. With a punative Luxury Tax staring at you. Way worse than now with the new CBA..

So I think that ASG is dumping somebody’s salary in the near future.

In 2 years if you re-sign Josh, ZaZa, and Teague you have:

JJ > 22m

Marvin 7.5 m

Al 12 m

Josh 16 m (Or thereabouts I’m guessing)

Teague and ZaZa maybe 6 m each

A 1st pick at around 1.5 m

That’s just under 71 mill for 7 players. And that’s if we sell our 1st pick next season for cash.

I just don’t see it happening. Somebody’s going to be gone.

And JJ and Josh are the logical choices.

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I could see the Nuggets giving up Picks #38 and 50 for Marvin, where Karl would probably turn him into a 15 and 7 guys, and make him look better than he ever did here.

But he would still stumble over his feet.

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Draftexpress now has us taking Moultrie at #23.

It also has Wroten at 24, and Taylor at 26, two other guys that have been mentioned for the Hawks.

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