Atlanta Hawks: Larry Drew to return as coach

*Moe Harkless

Har[k]less with a *k

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Sautee, I disagree with you about being a poor shooting team. Without a true floor general and facilitator you’re left with an offense more reliant on one on one play. And that leads to lower field goal percentage. Marshall changes everything on offense, because he becomes the first pass first point guard the Hawks have had since who? This also allows Josh to be able to post up more, because you finally have someone on the team (besides T- Mac) who properly knows how to feed the post. This also leaves Teague with a speed advantage on who’s ever guarding him at the 2 guard. I truly believe Josh and Joe don’t cut often in the current line up because they are the only ones who passes well enough to read the play and get the ball to the cutter. With Marshall, you have three people on the court who can facilitate and create shots for other teammates. Teague and Joe are more than reliable spot up shooters when needed. Rather with Kendall penetrating, or Josh posting up, the team becomes better and less predictable.

AJ, If Josh hasn’t agreed to an extension by the trading deadline, you still have the option to trade him then, to many teams looking for cap space (I could see LA trading Gasol for Josh in that scenario or Brooklyn trading Lopez in that scenario also). But worst case scenario, am I comfortable going into 2013 without Al and Josh? Of course I am, because if that lead to me having a top 3-5 pick that season, then I’m happy. I believe no superstar will come to Atlanta as a free agent. So you must draft one. Either way the team is more appealing to a potential buyer than because the only long term contract you have on the books is Joe. No Josh, Al, and Marvin opens up $30 million of salary to rebuild your team around your draft picks. And I also believe in 2013, trading Joe’s contract becomes more feasible then because it will be only 2 seasons left on the deal. And long as Joe is still relative healthy, some team would take a chance on him coming in (even at that price tag) and being their 2nd or 3rd option.

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@Dept. Of Unintended Irony aka DUI

Dept. Of Unintended Irony
May 21st, 2012
9:19 am

“Get some originality (about yourself), O’Brien; think for yourself. [Part I-A]”

Pretty ironic coming from Rod’s Mini-me.
——————————————————————————————-

As I am relatively new to this “blog,” I never knew Rod from College Park [as you, DUI, would probably describe him (Rod from CP)] to be a supporter/defender of Jamal Crawford until recently or a few months ago [when I used to go by the name/handle, "Give-us us free [Amistad]“. I would say that, because both Rod from College Park and I, High-sider, have similar views concerning Jamal Crawford, is a testament to the old idiom/proverb/phrase of “great minds think alike.” Now, you, DUI, or some of other blogger will probably respond snidely with “yeah, great minds [do] think alike” and “fools seldom differ.” LOL

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so heads rolled in orlando. no surprise there.

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SVG fired and Otis Smith is leaving as well… Dwight is bigger than Mickey Mouse in Orlando…LOL

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Lol, Orlando is about to show Atlanta how to do a GM and head coaching search. The Magic have had three coaches who have reached the finals at some point in Van Gundy, Rivers, and Brian Hill. Look at the coaches this ownership (ASG) have hired.

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That should be THERE AREN’T ANY CENTERS IN THIS DRAFT WITH THE KNOWN POTENTIAL TO BECOME AN ALLPRO CENTER WITH PF SKILLS.

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I expected that Orlando and Miami would get new head coaches this summer and I expected that the Hawks would bring back LD. Next November, the Bobcats, Magic, Wizards and likely Heat will ALL have new head coaches and the promise (not always accurate, but at least the promise) that they will have new and better leadership to guide them forward. meanwhile, we’ll hear about stability and continuity from our ownership.

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KenS, there is no definitive evidence to say that if Josh was injured instead of Al, that the Hawks still get home court advantage. Nothing suggests that, that is merely your opinion. But the common opinion supported by statistics and +/- is Josh was the best player on a top 4 seed team.

Funny you say only an absolute fool trades a young AllPro double double machine for unproven draft picks (you said improving, but no stat suggests that Al is improving since his 2nd season in the league). But the very trade that has been the largest curse was Billy Knight (then with Grizzlies) trading a double double machine who was still improving to the Hawks for an unproven draft pick and Pau Gasol. Didn’t Chicago trade Brand for Tyson Chandler, who was unproven at the time? Which do you think most GMs would’ve rather have over the last 6-7 seasons, Chandler or Brand? Chicago also traded a double double machine for Scottie Pippen back in the 80s, how did that work out for them? The Lakers traded a double double machine in Divac (still in prime) to Charlotte Hornets for a high school kid named Kobe, not even with a top 3-5 pick. I think they like the results of that trade.

In fact, even when Horford was drafted, the word “potential” or room to improve was RARELY used with his name. Every one described him as the most NBA ready, not as a potential superstar or even franchise cornerstone. In fact, most viewed the draft as lackluster beyond the first 2 picks. I even remember many people on this very blog lobbying to draft Noah, Yi, or Conley over Horford because they had potential. Its quite possible that Horford (like Okafor) will never be more than a 16 ppg and 9 rpg player. So if with one trade, you can help the Hawks become less of a three on five team (Joe, Josh, and Al against every other team), and more of a 5 on 5 team with an improved bench, WHILE slashing salary by over $7 million, then you do that deal. You do realize, if the Hawks had a healthy Zaza and one more big on the bench who is capable of playing, they beat Boston in that series, even without Al correct? Also for Al to be such a great PF, funny how LD never desired to put Al on KG (a career PF).

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Marcus, Otis Smith would find a way to trade Al and Joe by next off season if he was brought in here. Because he would be attempting to woo D12 (they still have a great relationship) here. Not saying he would successfully woo him here, but he would try. It hurts me to say though, I’m not sure that Smith is a better GM than even BK.

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So if we’re making trades based on what players have said, don’t you first have to trade the guy who speaks adoringly about other fanbases and who allegedly wants to be traded away from his home town team?

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If the Hawks hire an experienced GM, it needs to be someone who has been able to shop with a very limited budget. Otis has had a blank check for most of the past few seasons, he wouldn’t know what to do with the ASG’s shoe-string budget.

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AJ, in a perfect world, I say trade all three, and rebuild all the way. But no I do not trade the one guy who has repeatedly stated that he just wants to WIN, and wants to play for an ownership who wants to win. That is the guy I want on my team. Moreso than the guy who has complained about rather he’s slotted at the 4 or 5 position. Quentin Richardson once was asked if he preferred playing the 3 or the 2, and he replied ‘A wing is a wing’. Well a post player is a post player, doesn’t matter if its at the 4 or the 5. I see Josh aggressively go at 7 footers just as much 6′8 PFs. Every good player in my life time that I’ve liked (even MJ – Remember when he got into it with ownership?) wanted a commitment from ownership that they wanted to do what’s necessary to win. I believe you trade Al while his value is still high, because I firmly believe this time next season, it will be a lot lower, and in this CBA Al would be looked upon as being overpaid. But I never said trade Al because of what he said or stated. I said trade Al because of his perceived value to other teams, and the knowledge of his shortcomings. If your best player can not create his own shot, he is not your best player. And please don’t say Al hasn’t been given the chance, because everyone from Kirk to Zaza to Ivan and Even to Powell have all been given the chance to create their own shots while a member of the Atlanta Hawks.

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B-list and below need only apply for ANY open position with the Hawks…PERIOD!!! a willing-to-work-for-cheap A-list is still outta reach for this stupid a$$ franchise.

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Announcement of a 2 year deal for Drew the day the world finds out Stan Van Gundy is available.

Ahhhh….The Hawk Way.

The suffering continues……

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AJ, I actually believe that the Hawks could win with Joe, Josh, and Al. If they had a coach as knowledgeable as Hubie Brown or Larry Brown. If the Hawks used their FULL mid-level exceptions to fill out the bench and found away to get rid of Marvin, I would say just package Jeff Teague and their first round pick, to move up the draft board to select K. Marshall. Even with Rose, I don’t believe the Bulls can beat the Hawks full strength with Marshall and another serviceable big who make more than vet minimum (maybe even Camby).

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The perfect coach for a hapless franchise we all love to hate & hate to love.

Imbeciles.

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Larry Coon ‏@LarryCoon
No. RT @pharoahemonch: can NBA players willingly restructure their existing contracts to create cap space?
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Yes, that is the same Pharoahe Monch who made “Simon Says”. This should put to rest any talk of Joe restructuring his contract.

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“Of course, none of these trades make the Hawks better… it just eliminates players so that we can enjoy the excitement of a season full of “I wonder if we’ll make the playoffs” or “maybe we can get lucky and get a top 3 draft pick”. Both scenarios are more interesting to some than watching 45+ regular season wins and a playoff defeat in one of the first 2 rounds.”

None of them make the Hawks better immediately, but they increase the chances of the Hawks being better 2-3 years from now. Right now the Hawks have zero chance of improving with the current team and next to zero chance of improving as long as Joe is taking up 35% of the team’s overall salary.

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Let’s keep it accurate now. Utah had to use not only the trade exception, but two 1st round picks, to get Jefferson. Utah coveted Jefferson while Minnesota wanted to trade Jefferson to basically free up Love to do more offensively.

That’s beside the point. The point is that they were able to acquire Jefferson because they had the cap space. If they hadn’t cleared the cap space, they wouldn’t have been able to acquire Jefferson under the salary cap rules no matter how many first round picks they threw at Minnesota.

Same with the Hawks and Joe in 2005, for that matter. If the Hawks hadn’t cleared out all that cap space, they could have offered Phoenix 100 first round picks and they still wouldn’t have got Joe because salary cap rules wouldn’t allow it.

Cap space is useful for reasons beyond just signing free agents like Miami did. It provides flexibility when looking to make trades to improve the team, broadening the potential pool of players that can be targeted in trade talks.

And what about the flip side? Are we going to go after a guy hard enough, that we’d be willing to use a large exception and 1st round picks to get him?

If they vacate Joe and Marvin from the books, they will certainly have the means to do so. I am obviously not a fan of clearing cap space just to make Gearon’s wallet fatter. The entire point is that the Hawks can use that to go after someone else.

Brooklyn, if Deron opts out this summer, may be the only team willing to bring in JJ, plus give us a huge trade exception. But if we didn’t get any draft picks, it would be a waste to us, other than the mythical “cap space”.

The likely scenario for moving JJ, would be a playoff level team looking to bring him in, while shedding expiring contrats or equally bad contracts

I have felt for several months now that the Clippers are the team most likely to pursue Joe. CP3 is entering the last year of his contract. They have several veterans who may be willing to come back for a year but not more. They have a major hole at shooting guard, which, if filled, may make them the favorites to win the championship. I think they would be willing to acquire Joe to be their 3rd option for one or two years, while he still has most of his skills left, and risk the possibility of having to eat the last few years of his deal when he has declined past the point of usefulness.

Only problem is, I can’t figure out a trade on the trade machine that would bring the Hawks the cap space that would make such a trade worthwhile. Maybe something like Mo Williams + Caron Butler + Ryan Gomes might work, but the cap savings from that wouldn’t materialize until the 2013-14 season. A starting five of Teague-(free agent role player SG)-Butler-Josh-Al with Mo Williams as the 6th man and Ivan, the 1st round pick, and other players rounding out the bench wouldn’t be significantly less competitive than the current team next year, though.

A disasterous move by the Mavs by the way.

I agree that Donnie Nelson’s perspective is stupid. Haywood can’t do what Chandler does, and the Mavs definitely missed him. But whether or not it is a disastrous move depends on how well they utilize the $16 million worth of cap space they will have this summer. If they do manage to lure Deron Williams, letting Chandler walk is a genius move. That is how you retool an aging team into a contender without having to blow it up and start from scratch. The jury is still out on that move.

The problem in our case, is that we literally have no one to replace JJ with, unless we do trade him for another SG.

It is not that hard to replace a shot maker who doesn’t make the game easier for teammates on either end of the floor and requires heavy usage of the ball to get his stats. High-usage shot makers can be valuable if they get it done consistently like Kobe, Wade, and LeBron do. Joe has been used like Kobe, Wade, and LeBron on this team, but he is nowhere near that good and doesn’t impact the game in other ways like they do. He doesn’t create easy shots for teammates like LeBron, Wade, or even Josh Smith do. His on-ball defense is good, but his off-ball defense is not so great, and his defensive impact doesn’t erase teammates’ mistakes the way LeBron, Wade, or even Josh Smith do.

Even with all that, Joe is good enough to where if he could take a back seat offensively and get his numbers within the flow of the offense, he would be a valuable piece if the Hawks could otherwise upgrade the roster. The problem is, at his salary, they can’t upgrade the rest of the roster.

If the Hawks managed to salary dump Joe and Marvin for nothing, if they really insisted on finding a replacement SG for him immediately, they would have enough cap space to go after Eric Gordon. Even if they just salary dumped Joe, they would have more than enough to go after Ray Allen as a short term option or someone like Gerald Green or Nick Young at less than a third of Joe’s salary. Neither Green nor Young is the player Joe is, particularly on the defensive end, but they also won’t stop the ball to get their numbers either.

For the record I am not in favor of immediately signing a replacement SG to take his place unless it’s Gordon, who is a potential All Star caliber player. I’d rather replace him via the draft (Terrence Ross?) and maintain salary cap flexibility to pursue other trades, perhaps for a SF.

One of Al’s best games as a pro came vs Chicago last season, with no Josh Smith. He goes for 31 points – 16 rebounds, consistently crashing the offensive boards and knocking down 17 footers. Dude is more than capable of replacing what Josh brings to the table offensively.

None of those stats say anything about creating easy looks for teammates, which Josh does far better than anyone else on this team other than Tracy McGrady. Teague is my favorite Hawk but he has a long way to go before proving that he can create for teammates consistently. Without a shot creator, Joe and Al will be hoisting up contested shots and their efficiency will plummet.

And obviously Al is going to put up big numbers when Josh is out, just like Josh put up big numbers all year with Al out. I think their games complement each other better than most people seem to think. I definitely don’t think the Hawks have to choose one or the other.

Teague
Johnson
Marvin
Horford
Zaza

. . . is a very balanced starting 5.

It’s time to put an end to the myth that Marvin can be a consistent contributor in any way, shape, or form. He rebounded well this year, but he didn’t do anything else consistently. He got torched by the less physically gifted Paul Pierce when matched on him in the playoffs. Relying on him for any type of consistent contribution is a recipe for failure.

Nobody on that starting 5 is capable of creating their own shot in the low post. That starting 5 is going to be just as much of a jump shooting team as the current one. Let us not forget that Al spent last year hanging out 15 feet away from the basket, too. It’s obviously more excusable on his part because he is one of the best mid-range shooting big men in the league, but if offensive balance is the concern, that is not going to solve any problems. Teague is the only guy in that lineup whose primary method of scoring is not jump shooting. And of course, none of that even gets to the fact that there is no off-ball defense whatsoever in that starting five other than Teague gambling for steals on the perimeter.

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Ultimately this team isn’t going anywhere meaningful until they get someone who is significantly better than anyone on the current roster. Whether that means trading any two players for Dwight, or getting rid of multiple “core” players to tank a season and get high up in the lottery, they have to find a way to get a superstar somehow. 45 wins and an early exit isn’t cutting it for me or the majority of this city’s fan base.

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Jarrod Rudolph writes for RealGM by the way, he’s not just some random guy on Twitter.

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Najeh, Nash would allow a healthy Josh to play the 3 position, because you would have Nash and Joe behind the arc, Al on the high post, and Josh posting up the 3 defender, with the center (Zaza or draft pick) crashing the offensive boards from the weak side.

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By the way, I’m tired of seeing how D12 is being painted as the villain in the Orlando drama. D12 is a top 5 player, without question. Van Gundy is NOT a top 5 coach (Pop, Rivers, Collins, Carlisle, Thibodeau, Scott Brooks, and George Karl). And Otis Smith was not a top 5 GM. Why shouldn’t the one person who is at the top of their profession, not have more say than two others who are average at theirs? It is fair for Van Gundy to repeatedly take shots at D12 in the media, however it is not fair for D12 to desire a change from an under achieving regime?

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Ra`mon

I get your point;
but, D.Howard is not a top 5 player any longer.

That does not make your point any less valid.

I disagree that any player should be the one doing the hiring & firing.
[even the SuperStars] … they get enough perks with the officiating ?

D.Howard – Quit on his Teammates !
D.Howard – No longer the best [5] in the league.
Durant, Kobe, C.Paul, Bynum, K.Love, Duncan, KG, Rose, LBJ, D.Wade,
The (10) above are either better or more valuablr to their teams.
I think I might be able to name 5 more if I thought about it ?

I do not like Van Gundy.

The way it went down was wrong.

O.Smith is / was the Culprit.

Plus D.Howard needs to look into the mirror as well.

____________________________________________

On a different not:

I think Nash is one SS who would make a difference in ATL.
-&-
He would sell a beaucoup 0` tickets as well !

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