Atlanta Hawks: Roster report

What about shedding salary? We can get at least 4 new pieces for Josh Smith and Marvin Williams which would offset overpaying for two players. Just my opinion…

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The Hawks roster and salary cap space for 2012-13 season sucks. I think they will have/need to make some very tough decision to shake up the roster this summer. This core has ran its course.

I wouldn’t mind seeing them trade Joe to the Pacers (or a team with cap space) for Paul George and a pick. The Pacers will have enough cap space to take on Joe contract and the Hawks will receive a talented young player, draft pick and cap space going forward. This trade may appeal to the Pacers b/c they dont have a true SG nor a better number 1 option on offense than Joe. I know its wishful thinking but it’s the type of move I would go for to breakup this core and create some salary cap space.

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Its going to be a long, hot summer on the blog.

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Let’s hope the Hawks claim salary-matching rights for Ivan. That would be a step in the right direction. I’m not sure how many of the ‘bench brigade’ would want to return but they definitely formed a good core and provide opponents challenges this past season.

IMO, Josh’s trade value is at its highest and now is the best time to trade him. It’s easy for many to say we should trade Joe or Marvin however another team would have to want them. Josh having one year left on his contract also assures the Hawks can get a return before he becomes an unrestricted free agent. Without question, Josh can bring back the greatest return value to the Hawks in either a combination of 2nd tier players or picks. Any second tier player combinations would have to include a center.

Would a team trade an aging 1st tier player for Josh, i.e. Garnett? That would be interesting.

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Garnett for Josh would be a waste. Josh sounded like he would approve of going to Boston but it would be a shame to lose him. I think if mgmt committed to him and coaching improved he would be happy and more successful. Trading Joe makes the most sense. Hist salary is bringing us down not to mention his lack of performance in playoffs and lack of leadership. The problem is since we’re losing Hinrich and if we traded Joe we’d need another guard — Green doesn’t do it. It is truly a mess they’ve created. Perhaps the only answer is to trade Joe, commit to Josh ($$$) and really commit to getting young positive attitude team players on board even if luxury is hit. Take the hit and build a winning team. Otherwise, there’s really no point. Lackluster on top of maybe’s for another year will mean the Hawks move to a different city.

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Ownership/Mgmt. will tell you that all will be good next season w/ a healthy roster and a good (rotation) pick at twenty-three. The question is whether to believe this.

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Can we trade Joe Johnson for danny granger or amnesty his contract? But we really need a good coach/mgmt and some hard core players on defense…

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Off-season issues are many:

1. Rick Sund – unimpressive, aloof; hamstrung; did not advance team.
2. Larry Drew – impressive; clever; resilient; good 1st/2nd yr coaching job.

3. JJohnson – $21M limits flexibility; good, not great, outside presence.
4. AHorford – Allstar C-F is future; move him to PF now?
5. JSmith – Part ways now, will not re-sign, not champion-smart.
6. ZPachulia – Starting C alongside Horford or trade him now?
7. MWilliams – Inconsistent, but absent Smith, does he rise? Good Gm 6.
8. JTeague – Improved, worst PG in playoffs, weak link. Need upgrade.

9. KHinrich – Dissapointment, did not provide leadership in backct.
10. TMac – Given opportunity, still playmaker, minus Josh, then what?
11. WGreen – Athletic, streaky scorer, LD favors him.
12. IJohnson – Good rookie season, suspect character issues.
13. JCollins – Good depth at center, can still play, good value.
14. EDampier – Good depth at center, can still play, good value.
15. VRadmanovic – Early success, streaky shooter, injured late.
16. JPargo – Early success, but horrid playoffs, injured late.

1. Where does Horford play next season C or PF?
2. If PF, trade Josh for best player available or Top 5 pick.
3. Move ZaZa to starting C position, contract expires next season.
4. Keep or Trade Marvin? Probably can get a late lottery pick – 15/16.

5. With 2/3 1st rd picks target:
a. 6′11, PF, Perry Jones, Baylor
b. 6′9, G/F, Quincy Miller, Baylor
c. 7′0, C, Fab Melo, Syracuse;
d. 6′4, G, John Jenkins, Vandy

6. Acquire FA vet point guard – Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Chauncey Billups…

2012-2013 Hawks

JTerry JTeague JPargo
JJohnson WGreen _______
TMcGrady QMiller IJohnson
AHorford PJones JCollins
ZPachulia FMelo EDampier

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MC,

You certainly brighten my day. Wow. The first round draft pick is locked in at #23 in a deeper draft.

Any thoughts to a Josh Smith for Marc Gasol trade to Memphis? The salary numbers are close to a match and Memphis could have the money to absorb the cap hit. They also have Speights and Darrell Arthur as RFAs which they could move freeing close to $6 million up.

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Michael Cunningham

Are the Hawks at least willing to look at one or both of
the following two / *[three] courses of action:

(1) Trading or using the amnesty clause on Joe ?

(2) Trading Josh for [primarily] draft picks ?

(3)* Based entirely upon trading Joe – using amnesty clause on Marvin ?

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M C

Thanks for the new Blog !

Speaking for our entire community; we appreciate it Mucho.

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PG Playoff Efficiency – as of May 15, 2012

Name PPG Eff

Rondo 15.0 +24.7
Paul 20.4 +23.4
Westbrook 23.2 +22.8
Parker 23.2 +20.3
Lawson 19.0 +19.0
Wade 22.3 +18.7
Holiday 16.9 +17.0
Kidd 11.5 +17.0
Conley 14.1 +15.7
Nelson 15.6 +15.2
Teague 14.0 +14.3
Chalmers 10.5 +12.8
Collison 9.0 +12.8
Sessions 10.5 +8.8
Harris 13.0 +8.3

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Teague, Joe, Marvin, Smith, Horford, Zaza——6 players back

Bring back: Pargo, Green, Ivan, Collins, maybe TMAC

Look at: Josh Howard for the minimum and sign Kirk for 2 million

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Our owners like to follow “models” like Detroit, Dallas, BS, etc. If that rings true for next season I like the model of building around young, available, affordable talent. As mush as I like our stars, they’re not “max” money stars. We need hungry youth who are developing. We need a solid GM to set the tone and stay active with the team. We need a coach who can push the guys to get better.

This season we learned injuries are key. Will they be as bad next season? Probably not.

Sund – we just need more energy & exposure for our team. He’s retired, let him go.

Drew – decent rookie campaign, but is he enough to mold our talent? Can he mold young talent?

Joe is not a max player. Josh stepping up w/o Al proved we can go without a “max star”. I’d research exactly what we could get for him. His contract will never allow us to get him a supporting cast under the cap.

Marvin will never consistently step up. I don’t see him stepping into a role if folks are traded away.

Josh will never focus on becoming an All Star. He focussed great when it was all on him, but faded back to jump shots when it counted. Sure the leg was hurt, but dude should always be on the block. He is our leader, our captain, our team, but he just fails to realize he needs to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses on the court. Dude hasn’t quite learned how to win.

ZaZa proved if given the minutes and trust he can produce well.

Al – too many games lost to tell? He is a PF as is Josh so this leaves us with a problem.

Teague – improved shot, improved play, but needs to learn to effectively run an offense to get guys shots. I’ll guess he improves mightily next season with Al on the pick and roll/pop to get folks open, especially if Josh stays in the block giving us multiple offensive threats.

Ivan – loved his energy, don’t mind the attitude. Give Gearon the finger buddy!

Pargo & Green – I liked their contributions and would like to see them back.

Vlad – just didn’t seem to really plug in here full time.

TMAC – he’s done, move on

Stack – should’ve been a coach, not a player.

Dampier – he did give us some good playoff minutes, but dude is done. Let him retire.

Collins – almost the same. We’ve paid him handsomely for helping us overcome Dwight that year, but his time here has passed unless we slow our team down tremendously.

Kirk – gone like Jamal. No $$ to keep him.

I think we did great on 1/2 our vet mins. If we would’ve gotten the same return for our investment on Damp, Collins, Stack and TMac who knows. I also think we need to shake things up by allowing someone like Joe and Marvin go and maybe one of Josh/Al go to get quality picks or younger talent to retool our roster.

We need a new identity. There’s just too much disfunction when all the pieces are in place for our team to gel. We’ve watched it for how many years? I love each of the guys, I value their contributions as a player, but it’s just not a good mix together to overcome our culture. If we stay pat = more of the same.

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AGTFan – I don’t see alot of get rid of Josh on the blog. More, get a GM & Coach who can coach Josh into being the All Star he is, instead of the liability he is. Don’t whine about Josh’s value. It’s been said 1000’s of times why Josh gets no love and respect, even in his own city:

30% of the time he plays like an MVP candidate
30% of the time he plays like an above average PF
40% of the time he mentally checks out on one end of the floor leaving us at home instead of en route to the ECF.

Dude just can’t seem to put it together. That’s where the beef is! Use your head, ask him to use his too.

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@ AGTFan

Agreed on that both parts

Now here’s the thing everyone is talking about getting Draft Picks newsflash people you only care about draft picks if you are a team like the Bobcats, Nets, Raptors, and Pistons.

The reason they need their draft picks so they can pick up that No.1 guy for their team can anyone even named the stars or who people consider the stars on that team? Besides Deron Williams at the Nets of course.

We need to trim the fat first before we talk about any draft picks getting rid of Marvin would be a start. Somehow we need to trade Joe he was the reason that we lost you don’t blame guys like Josh Smith or Horford or even Teague when the money man is not even producing at all during the regular season or even the playoffs.

Go look back at the regular season stats for anyone on this team except Horford(injured) you’ll see Josh produced Teague produced and even Zaza of all people produced more than I expected.

Even Ivan has tried to keep us in games.

For all the money we pay this guy he’s really no more than Average Joe He’s not as bad as Marvin, but since he’s gotten that fat contract dude lost all heart.

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How do we build around JJ in 2 years SteveW when he’ll be 33 by that time if I’m not mistaken that’s why I’d rather build around Horford and Smith both of them got the tools just need a Center or actually might not even need that Zaza has shown this season he can put up with the best of them maybe not produce the same numbers, but he can do his job on them.

What we really need at C now is some depth I mean quality depth not centers that just sit there and do nothing.

We move Josh to SF and Horford to PF even slide Zaza to starting C this team might go a bit farther then most people think.

Just find us an SG that we don’t have to overpay and who’s actually got heart and pride too. Please keep Willie Green though he’s good at the backup role.

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We need Josh he has been our best player the last 2 or 3 years i say get rid of Joe and his contract throw in Marvin and get a quality coach some1 who will get instant respect from Josh and build around Josh, Al and Teague. Josh is not the reason we lost 2 Boston I blame it on bad coaching and Joe, Josh had a pretty good run versus Boston with a sore knee and was still better than Joe u only trade Josh if u can get some1 better or at least almost equal it just seems when we really need Joe 2 step up the most he just falls back………

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I know that they are considered incompetent (and they are), but I’m guessing that the ASG knew the cap situation when they signed Joe & Al to their contracts in the past 18 months. Maybe they expected more relief from the CBA last summer… but just because MC has spelled out the situation so crisply for the blog community, it doesn’t mean that the guys in charge of the team didn’t consider this all along. My guess is that very little changes. LD may have a single year left (if his option is picked up) and will surely lobby for sameness. Remember, this guy held a camp just to teach the team his complex offensive system… surely he isn’t going to want to enter into his last year with some fresh faces who don’t know how to run his sophistacated pentangle offense. If Sund is retained, he will likely remain a caretaker. If he bolts, the new GM willl likely be told to take a year to evaluate the roster and LD. All in all, I expect the Summer of Sameness, The Sequel.

Good to have the blog back… to discuss the NBA playoffs. Amazing to watch the so called megastars from other teams have their issues with living up to the hype/contract. Maybe these guys really are human, despite their bank accounts.

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Joe Max just didn’t have the heart or conditioning to play all season. He showed flashes when we rested him, but he shows no reason to build around him. He’s completely expendable after this season’s performance. At contracts end he’ll be completely washed up.

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Hawks’ Summer 2012:

July 3: A list of teams interested in JaVale McGee is reported, with the Hawks among them. The Hawks do not end up signing JaVale McGee.

June 24: Hawks pick up Larry Drew’s option.

July 6: Hawks sign Kirk Hinrich to $12 million/3 year contract.

July 12: Joe Johnson on whether moves need to be made: “Nah man. What we got here is good. We just need to sign a few vets”

July 18: Gearon: “You look at the Dallas Mavericks. They won the Championship last year. This year, they got swept by the Oklahoma City Thunder. We lost in 6 games. We were the most injured Playoff team in the league this year. You cannot judge this team. We had a two-time All-Star who missed almost the entire regular season.”

August 5: Hawks sign veteran guard Mike James to 1-year veteran minimum contract

August 11: Hawks sign veteran forward Darius Miles to 1-year veteran minimum contract

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PS.. what this team really needs is a good solid veteran coach like Jerry Sloan. Would love to see this team with a real coach.

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I think it is also fair to assue that the ASG made the least amount of profit this past season than any since they started making the playoffs. Payroll was the highest whil only seeing revenue from 3 home playoff games 9which were fairly well discounted). Previously, they were NOt paying the luxury tax and getting revenue from 6 home playoff games. So on the heels of this disappointing financial year, do you really expect them to hand over a check to Marvin for $15M and then spend ~$5M on another player, essentially a $20M outlay for a SF? Not to mention Joe at around $80M. Amnesty is like a $100,00 poker chip. It sounds good but the reality is that only a few can actually afford that type of chip. Amnesty wasn’t “built” for all 30 NBA owners/ownership groups.

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I’d take 3-5 randomly selected Nets for Joe. They’ve got some great talent in yet another losing culture. At least we’d get some young talent looking to make a splash in the NBA instead of a washed up ISO Joe. Trade them Joe for Brooks, Green, Morrow, Wallace, I’d even take Shellhead. Anything to give us some flexibility and upside.

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The first link on today’s AJC’s sports page is to a 5-day-old column by MC on which we no longer are allowed to comment.

What’s wrong with this picture?

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Agreed, Amnesty is a dream, not reality. JeJe has a way of letting us know just what to expect. Unfortunately, he’s on track 99% of the time.

We can’t even drop a mid level chip, much less a $100,000 chip.

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Look at the Spurs as a Franchise to mold yourself after. 3 players on the roster make 43 million, Duncan,Parket Gino, after that they find players that fill specific rolls within the sytem Popovich runs. Atlantas problem is not necessarily the salaries but the lack of creativity the GM and Coaches have shown over this run. It would seem as if they run the franchise just as disinfranchised as the fanbase has become. Go find a young Ast. GM in Oklahoma City, San Antonio or Memphis and give him a shot at running this mess of a NBA team.

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“Look at the Spurs as a Franchise to mold yourself after. 3 players on the roster make 43 million, Duncan,Parket Gino, after that they find players that fill specific rolls within the sytem Popovich runs”

Actually it’s more like $46.7M for those three. And Duncan’s contract is over, so his next one will likely be less. While the Hawks “medium sized three” make about $ 44.9M. Just FYI.

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the players are fine.just need to get the deadweight out like kirk hinrich, jerry stackhouse, za za pachulia, eric dampier, jason collins and tmac. the real problem is rick sund along with larry drew. there’s van gundy, phil jackson just to name a few for coach and GM. DWIGHT HOWARD WOULD COME HOME IF YOU’RE TRYING TO WIN BUT IF SUND STAYS THE FRANCHISE IS DOOMED TO LOSE AND FALL SHORT. HE’S ABOUT SAVING MONEY FIRST AND CHAMPIONSHIPS NEVER

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Sautee- rough math had me 3mill off. Duncan coming off the books is not the point. They are still putting a winning product on the court with a 21million dollar player, obviously a better one, but it can be done is the point with the right Front Office and Coach in place. This is what the ASG has failed to do. They need a bright basketball mind to figure this thing out. Hince my suggestion into delving into the Ast GM ranks of some proven and then up and coming Franchises.

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they shouldnt never gotten rid of crawford and to not get anything inreturn was just stupid. they need to stop picking up all these has been like dampier and get them a ligit center. the only bright spot that came off the bench was TMAC. we have a great team they just take too damn many jump shots. attack the basket and draw fouls. they need to get rid of all them old guys open up some money unfortunely someone has got to go either Kirk Hinrich or Jeff Teague to open up more money and sign someone like a Derek Fisher someone who can come in and be a leader someone who can handle the ball and score plus with is age he will not require to much money and then focus on a true center. one of them Lopez boys will work out and Marvin Williams might have to go as well.

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LMAO @ JeJe’s 4:42 post. Sad but probably true.

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Boom Dizzle
May 16th, 2012
2:15 pm

MC — Before we even get into the players, who is going to be the GM/Coach? As far as player-wise, do you get the feeling Josh will be here still by say July 1? Will they use the amnesty rule for anything?

UGA
May 16th, 2012
3:01 pm

MC: Any truth to the Portland paper report that they are after Larry Drew because it is believed he will not be back with the Hawks?

Grandad
May 16th, 2012
3:42 pm

Michael Cunningham

Are the Hawks at least willing to look at one or both of
the following two / *[three] courses of action:

(1) Trading or using the amnesty clause on Joe ?

(2) Trading Josh for [primarily] draft picks ?

(3)* Based entirely upon trading Joe – using amnesty clause on Marvin ?
________________________

You guys actually expecting a response?

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SteveW
May 16th, 2012
4:19 pm

. . . But when you can’t hold a11 point 3rd quarter lead with the other teams All Star Point out, and could/should/woulda won the OT game 3, and the Game 6, you probably don’t deserve it. End of story.
_______________________

Remove the “probably” from that first sentence and you’re right on the money.

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“I don’t want to build my team around a “Head Case” with an Identity problem. He is best “on the block” and “attacking the rim” but spends his time shooting jumpers.”

The Hawks shouldn’t be “building this team” around anybody on the current roster.

With that said, let’s play NBA 2k for a second. Say, for a second, that the “player ratings” for the “core” Hawks on the roster go something like this: Josh 88, Joe 84, Al 84, Teague 80, Marvin 67. You’re not going to a win a championship with any of them as your best player. But you are also not going to get anyone at 88 or higher by trading your 88. More likely, you trade your 88 and you receive maybe a 78, a 74, and a draft pick.

On the other hand, if you simply salary dump your max contract 84 and your 67, you will have enough cap space to sign a free agent. Forget about getting players or picks in return for them; nobody is going to give you anything of value for Marvin and it will take a miracle to get something of value in return for Joe. Just clear the cap space.

So are you better off with your best players ranked 88 (Josh), 84 (Al), 80 (Teague), with a decent amount of cap space to pursue free agents, or with your best players ranked 84 (Joe), 84 (Al), 80 (Teague), with much less cap space to pursue free agents?

Pretty easy answer if you ask me.

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Of course, the 3rd alternative is Josh walking in free agency after Joe and Marvin get salary dumped. Even that situation, to me, is better than trading Josh and keeping Joe. You still have Teague and Al to build around, along with a ton of cap space to pursue free agents and/or trade targets.

One way or another, a shakeup of the core has to start with Joe.

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I’m sure even by now Billy Knight is wondering “why the hell is this core STILL together?!”

Whatup Fundamentals

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Astro Joe,

I will break down our entire summer in the near future.

Stay tuned.

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“These individuals that you like include Ivan Johnson, Zaza Pachulia, Kirk Hinrich and maybe Rick Sund and the individuals that you have a disdain for include Joe Johnson, Larry Drew, Jason Collins [rightly so], Jamal Crawford [who's no longer with the Hawks] and others.”

You’re absolutely correct High-Sider. I have an ingrained bias in favor of players who have heart and play defense. Ivan, Zaza and Kirk have heart and play defense. Joe has no heart. Drew is the worst coach in the NBA. Collins plays defense but he’s been one of the worst players in the NBA for 7 consecutive seasons. Crawford doesn’t play defense.

“[You] mentioned that Kirk Hinrich had a +/- of zero [0] in Game 3 and that he [Hinrich] played good defense on Rondo but you don’t mention that Hinrich didn’t score a single point that game [Game 3]?”

Actually you missed it. I wrote of Hinrich in Game 3, “Hinrich played 26 scoreless minutes, but as Cunningham broke down here, he kept Rondo from going off.”

“I don’t understand your [constant] fascination, preoccupation, fixation, and obsession with +/- [plus/minus] statistics.”

It’s because if you outscore your opponent, you win. If your opponent outscores you, you lose. The Hawks were outscored by 40 points in the series with Willie Green on the floor. He’s the worst player on the Hawks roster.

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Paddy

” The USSR had a better plan for growing wheat ”

You made me laugh out loud !

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Jeff Schultz: “GM Rick Sund got one second-place vote for NBA executive of year”

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/16/executive-of-the-year/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

I’m shocked he actually got one vote

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@ Grandmaster JeJe

As bad as Billy Knight was I think you’re right even by now he’d broken this crap up now how he goes about it don’t know.

ONE THING I DO KNOW MARVIN WILLIAMS IS A BUST even Mr. Knight himself is probably saying man I stunk it up on that one.

Still we’ve gotten a new coach and even a GM during the time of this core the only thing not new within the Core i the Core itself it’s reminded the same.

So now it’s time for a player or two a.k.a Joe and Marvin to GTFO I’ll keep saying that until I’m blue in the face. Both are deadweight to me if they read this blog they really need to hear it. I bet even UNC alumni’s are wanting to distance themselves from him as well.

Joe is now our modern day Jon Konack might as well be got that fat contract and all of a sudden big time decline.

That’s why I say trade Joe and Marvin NOW!

I’d rather it just be Horford and Josh as co-leaders than this three headed Hydra beast crap L.D made up.

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Najeh,

I agree with your analysis complete. I think the 1st step is to get rid of Joe contract to create cap space to sign other players… Which is why I proposed on the 1st page to trade him to a team (Pacers) that has cap space and not worry about receiving equal talent in return.

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JJ or JS for Melo or Gasol

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Fundamentals @ 4:21 pm:

-enjoyed the read-

Plus your ensuing posts as well.

I haven`t seen you around as much lately
-or-
maybe I haven`t been looking closely enough.

Alot 0` strange birds been on lately
so I`ve been scrollin` more.

I very much agree:

“Joe and Marvin are our weakest links ”

If two *’`must`’* go it`s gotta be Marvin & Joe !
-Although-
It is the Sine Qua Non for Joe to Go !

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@Buddy Grizzard aka B-Grizz

This is [written] in response to your post @6:28pm [dated May 16, 2012].

I hear [read] what cha sayin’ [writin']; [I] don’t necessarily agree with it [though]. Don’t forget [that] the ultimate +/- statistic is the [final] score.

BTW, I’m sure you’ve already read that your boy, Rick Sund, received one [lone] 2nd place vote for Executive of the Year. Did that [vote] come from you, B-Grizz?

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When I read “trade x for draft picks” all I think about are the lottery picks of Childress, S. Williams, M. Williams, compared to what the announcers were saying the other night about the Thunder. Look at those lottery picks: Durant, Harden, Westbrook. Wow.

Rick Sund, although he has grossly overpaid his own players to keep them, did bring in some good vets for the vet minimum this year, got Jamal Crawford for almost nothing a few years back, and I’ll take holding on to Josh and Al vs. GMs like Otis SMith of the Magic who made deal after deal (Arenas, Turkoglu, Carter, Richardson) to try to appease his star and still had a team that was not going to win a championship.

I am so low on Joe Johnson, but he is not going anywhere. J. Smith, albeit a head case, willed us to victory this year. I would listen to trades for he and Al, but unless I am getting a legit player who will be as good while also shedding cap room, I am not biting.

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With the 23 pick the Hawks should draft Fab Melo. Unless somebody else falls. As far as breaking up the core. I’m pro Josh, Al and Jeff. If someone offers anything for Joe I’d ship him. Ivan Johnson I would resign. Then fill out the roster with vet minimums. I would hate to trade Josh now as he was our best player this season. Getting closer to the trade deadline there is always a team that is willing to give up a little more for a player they feel can push them to championship status. ( Think along the lines of Denver and new York) the nuggets came out pretty nice on that deal. Also all these fake Hawks fans who are calling for Josh’s head need to realize that the refs blew that game for the hawks. True the hawks could have done more to not get in that position but they still got hosed.

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R.f C.P.

Rod;
I`m neither debunking nor defending your hypothesis.

Just chiming.

1st;
Josh is not necessarily our best defender.
I`m not real sure who is.
In the last two games of the play-offs
there was such a stark difference between Al & everyone else
it was as black is to white.

Although ‘fresh’ legs may have been such a contributer
that a comparison would be unfair.

Josh is a weakside shotblocker [admittedly]
and he gets alot of steals (by gambling).
-Yet-
he is not a very good position defender.

My other point;
Nash is not recognised as a great defender (and he`s not)
but players like Nash use the head [smarts] and their heart
to get by so much that there is an off-set.

Countermanding that he is neither a poor defender.

Some players:
Jamal Crawford, Willie Green, and many others are poor defenders.
[by NBA standards] understanding they are guarding the …
*very best players in the world* !

But crafty players like Nash, Battier, Hinrich, Kidd, Hill, Ginobili, et al;
can still beat you after they have lost a step with their savvy.

Honestly, I never see Josh fitting into that category.

One would think Joe would have become that player over time,
alas, seems not.

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As much as I’ve dreamt of it, chances of trading Joe are slim to none. Really folks…who would take on his salary considering his level of production…or should I say non-production? Marvin’s contract & the fact that no one would trade for him doesn’t help either. As Najeh said, the only way we escape this nightmare is to cut our losses with Joe. Unfortunately, our ownership doesn’t have the championship-desire/foresight/cojones to do such a thing. Realism won’t allow me to hope for them to do so. I’m as much a fan as anyone, but my hope lies in this: That one day we’ll awaken to the news that a sale of the team finally went through.

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Trade Joe and Marvin for Dwight Howard. Add Josh as well if you can get a shooting guard. That would give the Hawks a center and allow Al to move to one of the two forward spots depending on who else you got.The Hawks may have to offer to pay a portion of Joe’s contract because he is so overpaid. But that is why they have someone to manage the cap.

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Again, say it with me folks: No one will agree to a trade for Joe Johnson. And if we did offer to “pay part of his contract,” by the time we pay enough of it to convince a team to trade for him, we might as well just release him & call it a day.

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For all you Josh haters, talking about trading your best player is crazy unless your getting a star player back that can take the Hawks 2 next level.

Only free agent i see Hawks signing is Javale Mcgee, amnest Marvin contract and bring in some players to take this team 2 next level, Josh only want’s to win that’s it nothing more or less.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Melvin,

Larry Bird just won Executive of the year, but I’m not sure why. That being said, I cant see him trading for JJ. The Pacers are a small market team with attendance issues (just like the Hawks). They want no part of 4 years, $89 mil.

I think we are stuck with JJ for at least 2 more years. Ouch.

I think the Pacers will go after Eric Gordon. Yes, he is a RFA, but the will the Hornets match, given their budget constraints?

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Hawks right now is about 9mill under Luxury Tax, if amnest Marvin that would give this team 16mill to work with.

Sign Mcgee like 5 years 35mill with the back end being around 8 or 9mill

Hawks would be in good shape.

STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, MCGEE

BENCH PARGO, GREEN, TMAC, IVAN, ZAZA

RESERVE MELO, ?, ?

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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And let’s be honest, if you trade Joe or Josh this summer, the team takes a step backwards in the coming season. Folk are mad at Joe’s contract… he was instrumental in the team’s regular season success that saw them land a 4th seed. Joe was the top dog pre All Star Game, Josh took over after the All Star game. Those wins in January counted the same as the wins in March. And cap relief from trading Joe won;t likely materialize until the summer of 2013. You’re not going to acquire an elite wing player for Joe. I think you will be hard pressed to find a team that has a very successful big man tandem without an elite wing to join them. So, presumably, the plan would be to spend around $30M on Josh & Al starting in ‘13-14 and find someone to join them in that season? I think some of y’all are so distracted by Joe’s contract and most recent playoff performance that you forget how often he allows this team to play a winnable first round series by keeping us out of the 6-8 seeds.

Teague at 80 & Joe and Al at 84? Funny.

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Darrell Starks, that’s not right. Hawks are at $61M and salary cap is $58M. If you amnesty Marvin, then they go down to $53M and have $5M to sign a FA. Your ability to sign external free agents is based on the difference between your payroll and the salary cap, NOT based on the luxury tax. Once they reach the salary cap, they can only use the mid-level exception or minimum salary players to complete the roster. Dumping Marvin would be s step but it won’t make a material difference in this team.

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Joe most likely will still be here and the Hawks arent amnesty Marvin. They are saving the amnesty for Joe’s contract in a year or two.

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Asrto Joe, That is right you don’t go into Luxury tax until you hit the 70mill then your penalized, right now Hawks are at 61 mill – 70mill = 9mill

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Trade Josh and Joe to piston, for Greg Monroe, T. Prince and late first rd pick.

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I like Moe Harkless over Jeffrey Taylor. If Quincy Miller regains that explosion he had before that injury in High School he could be a steal in the draft but I have to admit, he looked terrible in the tournament. Its going to take some time for him to develop. Its hard to say who will move up or drop in the draft but Harkless, Fab Melo, Taylor, Andrew Nicholson, and Royce White could be there when the Hawks pick and would be solid choices. I like Drew Gordon in the second round.

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Would a team be willing to trade for JJ if he’d be willing to restructure his contract?
And would he ever do that, knowing we don’t want him here? Maybe we could get Dwight Howard for JJ and Zaza?

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I haven’t seen Harkless play but from what I’ve read he sounds like a player that the Hawks would want….a versatile athletic SF/PF

Maybe that’s the Hawks identity….Versatile athletic tweeners all around the same size that can play multiple positions.

I’m looking him up and they say he has Kevin Durant like potential…I don’t expect all of that but sign me up! I also don’t expect him to be there at 23 but like KG said….anything is possible

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Moe Harkless is sneaky athletic

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Here’s the thing about trading Josh. While it is ideal for all those that have been trying to find a reason to get rid of him since, forever, you better get back equal value or we will see this team as not even exciting enough to watch much less good enough to watch.

Bottom line is, if you trade Josh you’re going to have to get at least (2), and i can even make an argument for (3), players that will the affect the game and give you the production of 1 Josh.

You’re not going to get a top tier player that is close to equal or more productive than Josh. So you’re going to be stuck with 2nd tier players. There is no 2nd tier player that you’re going to plug into the starting lineup that is going to give you anything close to the production of Josh so this team immediately becomes a worse team.

So that is the dilemma. It is sad that we have come to a point where people are arguing that we have to give away our best all round player because of the money that we are paying our 3rd best all around player. (At least that is the way Charles Barkley sees it, and I agree)

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folks y’all need to talk some sense into poor rod. he over at mark’s place and is still delusional at worst or in denial at best as to who the owners are. he still thinks the amnesty chip could or should have been used to save the team and get us, who else, but jamal. that chip is only for the richest of the rich and further degrades any suggestion the new cba was about evening the playing field.

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Or we could always trade Josh for Leuer, JJ for Thabeet, and Al for Jordan Hill and make somebody on this blog very happy…Let he that readeth understand.

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So many offseason decision for the Hawks here are the list of free agents that will be available:

Here is the complete list:

Point Guard
(name, team – 2011-12 salary – status)

Deron Williams, Brooklyn Nets – $16.4 million – Player Option ($17.8 million)
Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns – $11.7 million – Unrestricted
Aaron Brooks, Phoenix Suns – $2.0 million – Restricted ($3.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Raymond Felton, Portland Trail Blazers – $7.6 million – Unrestricted
Kirk Hinrich, Atlanta Hawks – $8.0 million – Unrestricted
Jason Kidd, Dallas Mavericks – $8.6 million – Unrestricted
Andre Miller, Denver Nuggets – $7.8 million – Unrestricted
Chauncey Billups, L.A. Clippers – $2.0 million – Unrestricted
Jameer Nelson, Orlando Magic – $7.8 million – Player Option ($7.8 million)
D.J. Augustin, Charlotte Bobcats – $3.2 million – Restricted ($4.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Jason Terry, Dallas Mavericks – $10.7 million – Unrestricted
George Hill, Indiana Pacers – $2.1 million – Restricted ($3.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Jordan Farmar, Brooklyn Nets – $4.0 million – Player Option ($4.3 million)
Leandro Barbosa, Indiana Pacers – $7.6 million – Unrestricted
Beno Udrih, Milwaukee Bucks – $7.0 million – Player Option ($7.4 million)
Goran Dragic, Houston Rockets – $2.1 million – Unrestricted
Jerryd Bayless, Toronto Raptors – $3.0 million – Restricted ($4.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Derek Fisher, Oklahoma City Thunder – $3.4 million – Unrestricted
Randy Foye, L.A. Clippers – $4.3 million – Unrestricted
Mo Williams, L.A. Clippers – $8.5 million – Player Option ($8.5 million)
Jonny Flynn, Portland Trail Blazers – $3.4 million – Unrestricted
Keyon Dooling, Boston Celtics – $2.2 million – Unrestricted
Ishmael Smith, Orlando Magic – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Ramon Sessions, L.A. Lakers – $4.3 million – Player Option ($4.6 million)
Jeremy Lin, New York Knicks – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Sundiata Gaines, Brooklyn Nets – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
A.J. Price, Indiana Pacers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Baron Davis, New York Knicks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Royal Ivey, Oklahoma City Thunder – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
John Lucas, Chicago Bulls – $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Gilbert Arenas, Memphis Grizzlies – $0.4 million – Unrestricted
Jannero Pargo, Atlanta Hawks – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Delonte West, Dallas Mavericks – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Walker Russell, Jr., Detroit Pistons – $0.4 million – Unrestricted*
Darius Morris, L.A. Lakers – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Terrell Harris, Miami HEAT – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Carldell Johnson, New Orleans Hornets – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
DeAndre Liggins, Orlando Magic – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Ronnie Price, Phoenix Suns – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
T.J. Ford, Golden State Warriors – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Anthony Carter, Toronto Raptors – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Roger Mason, Washington Wizards – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Jamaal Tinsley, Utah Jazz – $1.2 million – Team Option ($1.3 million)
Donald Sloan, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.2 million – Unrestricted*
Manny Harris, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.4 million – Unrestricted*
Patty Mills, San Antonio Spurs – $0.3 million – Unrestricted*
Courtney Fortson, Houston Rockets – $0.2 million – Unrestricted*
Mike James, Chicago Bulls – $0.6 million – Unrestricted
Jerome Dyson, New Orleans Hornets – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Ben Uzoh, Toronto Raptors – $0.2 million – Unrestricted*
Armon Johnson, Brooklyn Nets – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Earl Boykins, Houston Rockets – $0.2 million – Unrestricted
Blake Ahearn, Utah Jazz – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*

Shooting Guard
(name, team – 2011-12 salary – status)

Eric Gordon, New Orleans Hornets – $3.8 million – Restricted ($5.1 million Qualifying Offer)
O.J. Mayo, Memphis Grizzlies – $5.6 million – Restricted ($7.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Ray Allen, Boston Celtics – $10.0 million – Unrestricted
Landry Fields, New York Knicks – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Carlos Delfino, Milwaukee Bucks – $3.5 million – Unrestricted
Nick Young, L.A. Clippers – $3.7 million – Unrestricted
Jamal Crawford, Portland Trail Blazers – $5.0 million – Player Option ($5.2 million)
Louis Williams, Philadelphia 76ers – $5.2 million – Early Termination Option ($5.4 million)
J.R Smith, New York Knicks – $1.4 million – Player Option ($2.6 million)
Mickael Pietrus, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Courtney Lee, Houston Rockets – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Rudy Fernandez, Denver Nuggets – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
DeShawn Stevenson, Brooklyn Nets – $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Damion James, Brooklyn Nets – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
C.J. Miles, Utah Jazz – $3.7 million – Unrestricted
Shannon Brown, Phoenix Suns – $3.5 million – Unrestricted
Josh Howard, Utah Jazz – $2.2 million – Unrestricted
Gerald Green, Brooklyn Nets – $0.4 million – Unrestricted
Terrence Williams, Sacramento Kings – $2.4 million – Unrestricted
Jodie Meeks, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Marco Belinelli, New Orleans Hornets – $3.4 million – Unrestricted
James Anderson, San Antonio Spurs – $1.5 million – Unrestricted
Matt Carroll, Charlotte Bobcats – $3.9 million – Early Termination Option ($3.5 million)
Brandon Rush, Golden State Warriors – $3.0 million – Restricted ($4.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Alonzo Gee, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Danny Green, San Antonio Spurs – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Tracy McGrady, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Jerry Stackhouse, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Willie Green, Atlanta Hawks – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Jason Kapono, Cleveland Cavaliers – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Marquis Daniels, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Sasha Pavlovic, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Cory Higgins, Charlotte Bobcats – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Anthony Parker, Cleveland Cavaliers – $2.3 million – Unrestricted
Travis Leslie, L.A. Clippers – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Keith Bogans, Brooklyn Nets – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Michael Redd, Phoenix Suns – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Mo Evans, Washington Wizards – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Kelenna Azubuike, Dallas Mavericks – $0.4 million – Unrestricted
Bobby Simmons, L.A. Clippers – $0.5 million – Unrestricted
Morris Almond, Washington Wizards – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
Alan Anderson, Toronto Raptors – $0.2 million – Unrestricted
Xavier Silas, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Cartier Martin, Washington Wizards – $0.1 million – Unrestricted

Small Forward
(name, team – 2011-12 salary – status)

Gerald Wallace, Brooklyn Nets – $9.5 million – Player Option ($9.5 million)
Nic Batum, Portland Trail Blazers – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Jeff Green, Boston Celtics – $4.5 million – Restricted ($7.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Chase Budinger, Houston Rockets – $0.9 million – Team Option ($0.9 million)
Grant Hill, Phoenix Suns – $6.5 million – Unrestricted
Sam Young, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Matt Barnes, L.A. Lakers – $1.9 million – Unrestricted
Andres Nocioni, Philadelphia 76ers – $6.7 million – Unrestricted
Anthony Tolliver, Minnesota Timberwolves – $2.1 million – Unrestricted
Donte’ Greene, Sacramento Kings – $2.0 million – Restricted ($3.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Bill Walker, New York Knicks – $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Devin Ebanks, L.A. Lakers – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Dahntay Jones, Indiana Pacers – $2.7 million – Player Option ($2.9 million)
Jeremy Evans, Utah Jazz – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Eduardo Najera, Charlotte Bobcats – $2.8 million – Unrestricted
Derrick Brown, Charlotte Bobcats – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Damien Wilkins, Detroit Pistons – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Dominic McGuire, Golden State Warriors – $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Chris Wright, Golden State Warriors – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Trey Thompkins, L.A. Clippers – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
DaJuan Summers, New Orleans Hornets – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Steve Novak, New York Knicks – $1.0 million – Unrestricted
Rasual Butler, Toronto Raptors – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Diamon Simpson, Houston Rockets – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Jamario Moon, Charlotte Bobcats – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
James Singleton, Washington Wizards – $0.2 million – Unrestricted
D.J. Kennedy, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*

Power Forward
(name, team – 2011-12 salary – status)

Kevin Garnett, Boston Celtics – $21.2 million – Unrestricted
Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs – $21.2 million – Unrestricted
Michael Beasley, Minnesota Timberwolves – $6.3 million – Restricted ($8.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Brandon Bass, Boston Celtics – $4.3 million – Player Option ($4.3 million)
Kris Humphries, Brooklyn Nets – $8.0 million – Unrestricted
Kenyon Martin, L.A. Clippers – $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Carl Landry, New Orleans Hornets – $8.5 million – Unrestricted
J.J. Hickson, Portland Trail Blazers – $2.4 million – Restricted ($3.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Elton Brand, Philadelphia 76ers – $17.1 million – Early Termination Option ($18.2 million)
Antawn Jamison, Cleveland Cavaliers – $15.1 million – Unrestricted
Shawne Williams, Portland Trail Blazers – $3.0 million – Player Option ($3.1 million)
Jason Thompson, Sacramento Kings – $3.0 million – Restricted ($4.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Marreese Speights, Memphis Grizzlies – $2.8 million – Restricted ($3.8 million Qualifying Offer)
Ryan Anderson, Orlando Magic – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
D.J. White, Charlotte Bobcats – $2.0 million – Restricted ($3.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Anthony Randolph, Minnesota Timberwolves – $2.9 million – Restricted ($4.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Renaldo Balkman, New York Knicks – $1.7 million – Unrestricted
Ronny Turiaf, Miami HEAT – $4.4 million – Unrestricted
Troy Murphy, L.A. Lakers – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Boris Diaw, San Antonio Spurs – $9.0 million – Unrestricted
Chris Wilcox, Boston Celtics – $3.0 million – Unrestricted
Ersan Ilyasova, Milwaukee Bucks – $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Darrell Arthur, Memphis Grizzlies – $2.0 million – Restricted ($3.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Louis Amundson, Indiana Pacers – $2.4 million – Unrestricted
Jason Maxiell, Detroit Pistons – $5.0 million – Player Option ($5.0 million)
Jordan Hill, L.A. Lakers – $2.9 million – Unrestricted
Craig Brackins, Phildelphia 76ers – $1.4 million – Unrestricted
Chris Johnson, New Orleans Hornets – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Derrick Caracter, L.A. Lakers – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Brian Cook, Washington Wizards – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Ian Mahinmi, Dallas Mavericks – $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Earl Clark, Orlando Magic – $1.2 million – Player Option ($1.2 million)
Luke Harangody, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Vladimir Radmanovic, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Ivan Johnson, Atlanta Hawks – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Brian Scalabrine, Chicago Bulls – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Brian Cardinal, Dallas Mavericks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Yi Jianlian, Dallas Mavericks – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Vernon Macklin, Detroit Pistons – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Reggie Evans, L.A. Clippers – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Juwan Howard, Miami HEAT – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Shelden Williams, Brooklyn Nets – $1.0 million – Unrestricted
Jared Jeffries, New York Knicks – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Francisco Elson, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Lavoy Allen, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Jeremy Evans, Utah Jazz – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Lance Thomas, New Orleans Hornets – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Ryan Reid, Oklahoma City Thunder – $0.5 million – Unrestricted
Sean Williams, Boston Celtics – $0.1 million – Unrestricted

Center
(name, team – 2011-12 salary – status)

Andrew Bynum, L.A. Lakers – $14.9 million – Team Option ($16.1 million)
Roy Hibbert, Indiana Pacers – $2.6 million – Restricted ($3.7 million Qualifying Offer)
Brook Lopez, Brooklyn Nets – $3.1 million – Restricted ($4.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Chris Kaman, New Orleans Hornets – $12.7 million – Unrestricted
JaVale McGee, Denver Nuggets – $2.5 million – Restricted ($3.5 million Qualifying Offer)
Marcus Camby, Houston Rockets – $12.9 million – Unrestricted
Spencer Hawes, Philadelphia 76ers – $4.1 million – Unrestricted
Kwame Brown, Milwaukee Bucks – $6.8 million – Unrestricted
Aaron Gray, Toronto Raptors – $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Robin Lopez, Phoenix Suns – $2.8 million – Restricted ($4.0 million Qualifying Offer)
Jermaine O’Neal, Boston Celtics – $6.2 million – Unrestricted
Nazr Mohammed, Oklahoma City Thunder – $3.8 million – Unrestricted
Omer Asik, Chicago Bulls – $1.9 million – Unrestricted*
Semih Erden, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Ben Wallace, Detroit Pistons – $2.2 million – Unrestricted
Hamed Haddadi, Memphis Grizzlies – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Mehmet Okur, Portland Trail Blazers – $10.9 million – Unrestricted
Greg Stiemsma, Boston Celtics – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Daniel Orton, Orlando Magic – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Solomon Alabi, Toronto Raptors – $0.8 million – Team Option ($0.9 million)
Hasheem Thabeet, Portland Trail Blazers – $5.1 million – Unrestricted
DeSagana Diop, Charlotte Bobcats – $6.9 million – Player Option ($7.4 million)
Ryan Hollins, Boston Celtics – $0.3 million – Unrestricted
Jason Collins, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Joel Przybilla, Portland Trail Blazers – $0.7 million – Unrestricted
Eddy Curry, Miami HEAT – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Tony Battie, Philadelphia 76ers – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Greg Oden, Portland Trail Blazers – $1.5 million – Unrestricted
Jamaal Magloire, Toronto Raptors – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Kyrylo Fesenko, Indiana Pacers – $0.3 million – Unrestricted
Mickell Gladness, Golden State Warriors – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Mikki Moore, Golden State Warriors – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
Dan Gadzuric, New York Knicks – $0.1 million – Unrestricted

http://www.hoopsworld.com/2012-nba-free-agents

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You obviously have to amnesty Duck. Waiting to to use it on Joe is not practical. Only way to really get rid of his contract is trade.
8.3 million relief for next year would allow for much needed breathing room and a few million below the luxury tax even if you use all your exceptions.

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How can saving it on Joe to pay him 25 million to not play make any more sense. If you have to pay him regardless might as well play him or trade him.

Waiting that long to just get salary relief when the only players worth anything still on the roster would be Al and JT. I’m pretty sure Al by 2014 would want out more badly than Josh does right now.

I still contend we could trade him to Orlando for Turk and redick right now. Redick has one more year and Turk has two.

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Josh Smith is gone, gone, gone…

Forget about Josh, he is being shopped heavily…
Hawks will not take chance on him pulling any stunts…

He will be moved during draft or summer…
They will not wait until trade deadline for limited offers…
The $3M trade kicker is irrelevant, he already makes $12M…
He’ll get $15M in his next deal anyway…

Best thing for Hawks is 2 draft picks and keep moving…
They can dump salary and stock young talent…

I love Josh’s talent, but he seeks greener pastures…
You have to wish him well…we’ll all miss his talent…
He was the heart and soul for many years…

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Rod from College Park,

Ginobelli is a very good defender. I normally agree with your comments, but Ginobelli deserves more respect than be identified as a professional scorer. He’s a playmaker and defender.
Second, we need to see who would want Al Horford because the regular season proved that he was not a necessity. Good player, but we need a bench and we need money to make deals.

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If they close the Hawks blog again let’s take over the Falcons Blog. They always keep their blog up.

The Celtics are cheaters and I hope they lose.

FIRE SUND

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R.f C.P.

I only made the point that Al was our best defender in the play-offs
and gave all his deriders an out by stating:

“Although ‘fresh’ legs may have been such a contributer
that a comparison would be unfair ”

But since you decided to debate; I`ll take it a little further.

1st;
You are so correct !
I had it wrong about Marv and I admit as much !!!
I thought poor coaching was his downfall;
I now see the error my ways.
Yes, I will err again … and again.

Now;
I must challenge your estimation that ‘gambling’
makes you a good defender.
Nossir, cannot go along with that atall.

My original point was speaking about position defense.
Josh is poor.
Josh is also a poor help defender
when there is no opportunity for the block shot.
He does not rotate properly “to help” …,
so much, as he roams the middle as would a free safety
looking for a block.
This leaves him vulnerable for cutters on the back-side.
There are games witin the game that some people fail to see.
Some fans;
see great athletes make great plays.
But;
fail to see the finer points of “team” play.

You said you did not se my point when I mentioned Nash,
Battier, Ginobili, et al, and to use one of your examples Harden.
I will not be snarky here out of respect.
But;
some fans would fail to see the point of “team” players
using their Mind to play the game.

As much as I hate to admit right now;
KG, Pierce, -&- Ray Allen beat us with their Mind and their Heart
rather than their legs in our most recent series.

Josh could not guard KG in game 6. – Period.

Back to Josh;
someone mentioned he does not box-out = true;
but;
I`ll give him a pass due to his def. rebounding.

The same person mentioned close-outs;
for which, I cannot give him a pass.

I could name 6 or 8 other facets of defense in which Josh
is weak fundamentally, but that is really not my point.

You seem to have jumped on the abhor Al wagon:

Sad;
Al and Josh are apples and oranges / we both know that.

My original intent was not to diminish Josh`s ability;
but to draw a comparison between an athletic player
who uses his gifts, but has never discovered the
inner game.
Versus the aging vet who once had those similar gifts
but learned to compensate over time, when father time
has eroded those gifts.
Much like an aging pitcher who has lost his fastball
now;
he must learn to pitch.

My original text stated; no intent to debunk.
-same here-
The exception being, clarification,
and somewhat defending my conviction gained through experience.

Sincerely and with respect,
G-dad

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Blog monster on a ramapage…

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Hope the hawks fellow the falcons plan get a young gm from a winning team and let him decide who to keep or trade.

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Hey Hawks fans im going to Provide you guys with real facts and solutions to your teams problems in the near future! i agree with @yodaddybrother more or less but he was walking the right path until…..he never realy gsve you solutions

Problems:
1. Coaching: sorry to tell you Drew lovers but Larry is not the answer for this type of team, this team needed an experienced coach to cach and unestablished core Drew was not the answer. the solution to this problem is simple, Bye Bye to Drew The best option for this team out there is D’antoni this is a 388 career game winner who turned a franchise around in 05, 06 season with the suns. Plus teague will thrive in his system and will reach closer to his potentials.

2. Josh Smith: This guy has the right amount of energy and skills to perform at a all star level but doesnt have the right guidence, he needs a new environment with a team that has a hard notch coach that eliminates him from part of his game that will set him back like those long range 2s/3s for Now! solucion for this problem is simply trading him for good quality assets, remember he has consistently asked to be traded. This way you can put al Horford in his natural position power forward.

3. Bench: There are quality guys that could stay for very cheap and perhaps play bigger roles. there were many options but there are better assets out in the free agent market this year. Willie Green provided with solid scoring of the bench when needed most of the times! but no Deffense whats so ever hes a maybe because like i said before there are better assets out there. Pargo provided good back up scoring but also no Deffense and at time was to shooting friendly taking shots with out a pass (greedy) for a pg specialy backup. The best bench performance went to ivan johnson and Tracy Mcgrady dispite the lack of minutes given to him in some of the first half and the whole second half of the season, T-mac Provided what i call Star I.Q. off the bench because remember this was his first year playing this role and even doe it was inconsistant because of playing time he showed at times that he could provide more then what people cut him of to be and he played solid Deffense (bothering shots and passes). Ivan Johnson provided good quality minutes do to starters injuries and he played good hard notch basketball. My returning list is of Ivan Johnson, Tracy Mcgrady (if given a bigger role or perhaps starting at the 3) Marvin williams, and Zaza.

4. Free agency: this teams needs to go out shopping for a new starting center sense they didnt spend last off season tehy could do a little shopping this off season, hibbert, mcgee, Kaman, brook lopez. is that enoff for you guys? and a new back up point gaurd maybe Jason Terry Back in ATL? or perhaps Kidd, Delonte West?.

My starting Lineup would be:

D’antoni

Jeff Teague/FA/FA
Joe Johnson/Tmac?FA
Tracy Mcgrady/Marvin Williams
Al Horford/Ivan Johnson/Zaza
Free Agent/Zaza

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Just Joe

Off the top of my head;
sounds like an intelligent proposal.

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Can you trade a player`s team option ?

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vava

I disagree with your assessment.

LD is not a 1st tier Coach.
-Granted-
Yet he is not the jackass you just painted him to be.

These are professional players.
Take Dampier for example:
He was as professsional as you will ever see,
didn`t play hardly at all, but when called upon he was ready.
-gave us all he had-
Still, we make excuses for Joe Johnson !

So, now it`s LD`s fault that Joe is charlatan ?

Once more, I`m not an LD champion;
but you cannot heap upon the man crap from another pot.

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‘ a ‘ charlatan … with an [ a ] in front.

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Eight Balls!

“But you are also not going to get anyone at 88 or higher by trading your 88. More likely, you trade your 88 and you receive maybe a 78, a 74, and a draft pick.” – Najeh D -
____________

I like this analaphor, (see Greg Anthony) I like it because it effectively communicates “The Big Idea”. Player Rankings is a basic principle and we all get this. However, let’s look at a value concept in addition to the ranking numbers:

If you trade #88 and, in return you get back three pieces a: 76, 74 and a draft pick? While the values may be lower in rankings, the sum is greater than it parts. If, the 76 gives you defense like Sergie Ibka and, he gives it to you in a big way – that is priceless and a role is filled. A Sergie type player who lives in the paint and, patrols the rim would change the landscape so much that the opponent becomes muted on interior offense.

Relatively, if the #74 player give you rebounding like a Kenneth Faried does, the value goes beyond belief. The specialist in that role doesn’t look to score and, provides balance on a contending team.

If that draft pick gives you anything at all, be it promise, hope, rebounding, and/or scoring (say 8 points and 8 rebounds) that is a prospect every team needs. Let’s say the pick is an Ivan Johnson type player coming in with the second unit, you have to do that because the collective sum of role players will provide depth and should prove to be cap friendly all the way across the board.

So, even though you are not getting an 88th ranked player back, you are getting useful parts to plug and play with. This type of creativity is the way to go when all you have is a loaf of bread, a fish and 13 people to feed.

This scenario worked well for the Denver Nuggets when Melo was traded to New York. For New York, not so much …. they gave up the farm for a stud cow. While neither team advance in the playoffs beyond round one, the Nuggets appeared to have more balance on their roster, more importantly it seemed to me anyways – they were having fun. Especially George Karl.

When your best player doesn’t want to be there, it can be quite detrimental to a team: see Dwight in Orlando and Melo in Denver and to a lesser extent, Rip Hamilton in Detroit. Let them go but, try to get those three pieces back. As it relates to the Hawks, what we need in return for Josh is:

Teague
Johnson
Williams
Horford
Zaza

In this order, to supplant the starters with upgrades from a Josh Smith trade:

SF – scoring
PG – assists
C – starter/backup

Then the next scenario should be moving Johnson and/or Williams to address the players remaining who don’t necessarily want to leave and, are not demanding trades per se. IMHO

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vava, Grandad,

If the ASG decides to keep the roster together (which they may have to, because of JJ and Marvin’s salaries, and the GM’s lack of creativity/financial flexibility), then at the very least, they should bring in an established veteran coach.

Not to make excuses for the players, but it will be very difficult to change the roster. However, it will be easy to change the coach. Give another coach a chance to coach Josh (before Josh walks away after next season). Give another coach a chance to change JJ’s game, to change the team dynamic, to change the culture etc.

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Brad Miller is washed up

Brad Miller? He couldn’t pass a Hawks team physical two years ago, when Sund tried to destroy our best Center, Zaza in a lopsided trade with Houston. Didn’t Houston status him as irrelevant and, place Brad on the IR list before this season began? He stopped traveling with the team at that point.

Has anyone seen Brad play this season?

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Brad Miller appears to be done, but his team option is valuable (up until decision day, when it gets declined).

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Vava74
Grand-Daddy
O’Brien
Just Joe

Brilliant conversations this morning. I got a cup of coffee and the dialogue is my breakfast, a lot of good stuff to chew on here. Thanks cohorts!

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He loves me – he loves me not!

“For all you Josh haters, talking about trading your best player is crazy unless your getting a star player back that can take the Hawks 2 next level.” – darrell starks -
_________

Most people on this board and, the ASKG included do NOT want to see Josh traded. Based on MC’s reporting from a close and confidentia,l reliable source inside Josh’s camp and, from Josh’s own words after the Boston series exit last week:

Josh has demanded a trade and, that request has not changed. So, it is Josh himself that plans to walk after this year. A realistic person has to now consider trade options to improve the Hawks roster once, he leaves.

What would you do? Poison his food and drink and tie him to his locker?

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Grand-Daddy

Mr. Woodson and Mr. Drew, (hand picked by the players “coup de grat”) were two rookie coaches who, worked on learning curves.

O’Brien and others are talking about replacing the coach with proven, elite, established and of a championship ilk. We have NEVER had that here. Like Obie just said, “It is easier to replace a coach than a star player.” Not only that, it makes more sense in reality.

A high level coach would make all the difference in the world in, influence, respect factors, imposing their wills and defining roles. That remains to be seen in Atlanta.

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For those that Love Josh;

How much would you love him if the ASG gave him JoeJohnson $
in order to keep him in Atlanta ?

Do you love him that much $120 with 6 zeroes following ?

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Josh will get a slightly above the Horford/Noah type deal. imho. 5 years @ 70M.

Didn’t Horford/Noah get 5/$55 – $58M?

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What makes Josh above Al ?

In terms of salary ?

If you are the GM negotiating ! … Not Josh`s agent.

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Grand Daddy

Does Josh believe he is a Max Player? I haven’t heard him say this. I wonder what he perceives his dollar value to be to another team?

Or, is it more about playing for an org committed to winning a championship that offers unrelenting fan support – and, not so much the money?

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9:07 am was for Mary Ellen !

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josh should have been an all star the last two season at power forward. al is not an all star at power forward. he is an all star at center is because of his speed and quickness. at power forward he would be an average player.

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really feeling down

anither long post denied by the blog monster

beginning to feel like josh up against kg

i want a trade to greener pastures

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STRONGHAWK

The point is:

Josh has demanded a trade and will be an UFA after next season.

Joe is not an UFA and, would have to be proactively shopped by management to a team that is willing to pay him that MAX SALARY. Do you know of such a team with cap space?

Two totally different circumstances.

More than likely, Josh will go first … and, that is Josh’s prerogative – not the Hawks.

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dmb,

Give me Jerry Sloan. I think he will give this team more credibility, and having coached Karl Malone all those years, maybe he would have a positive effect on Josh.

In Karl Malone’s 18 seasons, he attempted a total of 310 3-ptrs (he shot 27%). In Josh’s 8 seasons, he has attempted 741 3-ptrs (career 28% from 3, but yet he keeps shooting SMH).

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And for the Josh Smith discussion…He has not “demanded” a trade. He has asked for one. Big difference. And to his credit, it has not been a distraction for him or for the team (remember how the Melo thing played out).

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Offer Jerry Sloan whatever he wants.

It’s cheaper than using the amnesty clause.

His salary would be paid just on playoff revenue.

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Josh stands to make $13.2M in the upcoming season. If the Hawks had not blown his last free agent period (matching Memphis’s offer which now keeps them from offering Josh an extension), then a 4 yr $60M extension would probably be market value. That’s based on Josh getting 5% raises in each of the next 4 years (roughly $13.9M in 2013/14, $14.6M in 2014/15, $15.4Min 2015/16, & $16.1M in 2016/17). I believe that takes Josh up to the age of 31 (probably his last big contract due to his # of yrs in the league & a game based on athleticism).

I could live with Josh making that kind of money, but if the man wants to collect that check somewhere else, then there’s nothing we can do about it other than turn the team over to him. What position do you want, SF or PF? (I think he would choose SF by the way). Who do you want to coach? Give us your input on the offense? Is Teague a good enough PG for you? What free agents should we pursue? In other words, give him the treatment that Orlando & Brooklyn are giving Dwight Howard & Deron Williams right now.

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vava

You done crossed the line when you called me a fool.

You can call me any kinda ass;
and I would have no choice but to agree.

Now it`s on !

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Breakdown of Celtics breaking up the Hawks’ final play with multiple fouls that were not called:

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/5/10/3013327/josh-smith-video-celtics-vs-hawks-nba-playoffs-2012/in/2775502

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Anyone seen the rumor that has the Hawks interested in Alexey Shved? 6′5″ Russion PG free agent.

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http://hoopshype.com/videos/videos/moe-harkless-i-want-to-show-a-lot-of-things-i-wasnt-able-to-this-season

I think he is the sleeper in this draft as far as the first round. Wont be shocked to see him move up after the workouts.

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vava why use jj numbers against the worst expecting it to be coincident with the ability he might have against the best. apples to oranges as you conceded. only a fool would base his argument on that. what you say last might be true as jj has his best shot as a catch and shoot guy, that wont be available against the best in the playoffs is the rub. he is at his worst against the best in iso but he falls to that as soon as his hands are on the ball. sometimes one has to keep the ball out of his hands and go to plan two using him as a decoy against the best.

metta did the right pass last night to blake, kobe was not open over durant and ibacka the third best defender in the league across the court. the design of the play was flawed if they wanted to get kobe open or they thought the thunder would not defend. same principle; in the playoffs the good teams deny the other guy doing what he does best and takes away the best option two and three sometimes as well forcing guys to come up with the big shot.

btw, before more criticism of metta, kobe is 0-7 on last ten second game winners over the past few years. like the hawks sputtering away late game leads they should have never been faced with a comeback. nice to see we are among the best in doing that. maybe that is what gearon can say, “gee we lose em just like the lakers do”. heh heh

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More of the same …..Luxury tax, contracts Blah blah blah…..We need to keep these bench players- Pargo, Ivan, Willie Green.

Josh is the heart of this team and I would hate to see that yungn leave…… I would like to trade JJ and Marvin or amnesty one of them. They dont give us much imo-marvin was missing the entire season and Joe Cool had flashes but wasnt consistent at all.

JJ/Marvin for Cousins /Thornton/1st

JJ/ZaZa for Ariza/Gordon/2nd

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vava74: your assessment of Larry was spot on.. I’ll just add if his two main guys don’t buy into him why would the rest of the team? Hmmm…

Before addressing the players.. The GM and Coach should be addressed 1st!

Trade Josh for picks cause he’s walking after next season anyway.

Shop Joe too..Shop and or cut Marvin…

Larry= 14-25 against the winners. A shot at an ECF with that record? HaHahaha..Over matched? Hmmmm..

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The Hawks went hard after Enes Kanter last season – for Josh Smith. Kanter is really young, like 20, and came on towards the end of the season. I wonder if Josh and Marvin for Kanter and Devin Harris, with maybe some picks (2nd rounders?) thrown about by one of the sides would get a deal done?

Devin would be a great backup for Teague at this stage of Devin’s career. And Kanter/ZaZa at C would give us a big, athletic C position.

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Unless it’s a sure thing – like I think they felt Kanter was, I think the Hawks are scared of a lottery pick because of the disaster of Marvin, Shellhead, Childress, and Law.

Oh what coulda been!

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Grandad,

You do realize that Josh was playing on one leg in the Boston series right? Even healty, no one in the league can stop KG from hitting that 15 to 18 foot jumper. Let alone a 6′9 guy. Josh and Horford can not be compared defensively, no matter how much you try to harp on that position defense nonsense. Marvin plays good position defense, but he take no chances, and is not aggressive, thus he is a average defender.

I did not say that you have to gamble to be a good defender. I said most great defenders gamble. Just like most wealthy people take risk. Josh gambles a lot defensively, but his gambles pay off more times than not.

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vava

you have repeatedly shown either a lack of basketball acumen
or an indifference toward the subtleties of the game.

Your constant carping about Al makes you a nolo contendere
in my eyes due to your non-admission of guilt;
(that you don`t know what your talking about).

Then you come on board and whine about Joe
[a professional basketball player]
and blame his shortcomings on his most recent coach.

It doesn`t matter that Joe makes more $ than the Coach
and they both know it.
At least to you it doesn`t as you sit in Portugal and postulate
profusely with nothing to lose.

Al McGuire said it best:
” I`ll coach in the pros if I have a contract that guarantees
I make at least $1.00 more than the highest paid player.”

Reasoning:
Joe carries more gravitas than LD.
Joe is stubborn as a mule
Joe don`t want to change.
Joe don`t have to change .
Joe don`t care.
Joe got his $.
Joe ain`t a natural winner.

I`m tired of tellin` you what Joe ain`t – he just ain`t.

For all – that Joe ain`t – Al is !

Now you got that.

I kept it real simple for you.
____________________________________________

And you know the statement that aggravitated the piss outa` me ?

” Without Josh, Zaza must go to the bench again;
Zaza and Horford would not fly.
Only a fool would think it would work.”

Actually – only an obtuse superficial miscreant
would come to that conclusion
much less state it for public consuption.

Someone who actually understands the game,
would also understand that;
Zaza is not a full time 1st string Center but a solid workmanlike
plugger who is tough as nails plus he rebounds.
Al is a good, yes I said good position defender,
and a good team defender who also rebounds plus
he is quick enough to guard multiple positions.
Yes – another Big is necessary regardless if Josh stays or not !

Why are you crapping on two solid team fan favorites.

It`s a silly debate technique to belittle one component
of the same organism only to build up another within the same;
as they both have the same goals and aspirations,
I would think … if not … one or the other needs to go.
-Correct-

If one or the other is not pulling for the Team to Win ?

Right about now;
I wish to be snarky, but I have thought better.

Have a good day,
G-dad

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O’brien

May 16th, 2012
8:45 pm

Rod,

Speaking of Lou Williams…despite his 12 ppg in 28 mins, he is shooting 35% from th field, and 15% from 3. This includes shooting 29% in the first 2 games against Boston.

*****************

Mmmmmm hmmmmm

Funny how “professional scorers” get completely shut down by great defensive teams in the playoffs.

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R.f C.P.

I still do not think Josh is a great position
nor a great team defender.
Plus I think he is weak in other areas as well.

Our Hawks as a whole are the same.
Fundamentally weak.
-&-
Mentally weak.

Coaching over a long period of time has contributed.

Not -just- LD.

Habits are not formed overnite.
-nor-
are they broken overnite.

Dishevelling the team to a certain point or degree
might be necessary at this time due to my aforementioned
litany of reasons pertaining to habits.

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I dont know why Rod and High-sider continue to talk about Jamal like he is the missing piece to a ECF appearance from the Hawks.

Would he have helped? Probably. But the Hawks have bigger issues than just a scorer off the bench.

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Can anyone provide a legit list for teams that would even take on Marvin?

We had to give up a huge portion of our future to dump the Bibster!

I say 2 teams if that…..Cleveland and Portland…both who have little to be optimistic about. If you’re considering Sund and you have a former asst GM in your ranks, that’s just not a lot to boast about.

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“O’brien

May 17th, 2012
1:23 pm
I dont know why Rod and High-sider continue to talk about Jamal like he is the missing piece to a ECF appearance from the Hawks.

Would he have helped? Probably. But the Hawks have bigger issues than just a scorer off the bench.”

Yes, JC1 would have gotten us to a Game 6 in the 1st round…..because LD is the coach here and Sund gave us a bench that checked out 6 games prior.

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LETS KEEP IT REAL. JOSH DID IMPROVE A LITTLE ON HIS JUMP SHOT, AND DEFENSE. MARVIN HAS BEEN A HOT MESS FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS AND HIS ISN’T WORTH 8 MIL THIS SEASON. I WOULD TRADE BOTH OF THESE PLAYERS FOR DRAFT PICKS, AND BRINK BACK IVAN AND MCGRADY. HE PROVED THAT HE STILL HAS A LITTLE JUICE LEFT. I WOULD LET THE GM GO TO CAT MAN DO IF HE WANTED TO BECAUSE HE HASN’T DONE ANYTHING. AS FAR AS A COACH GOES, CAN THE HAWKS AFFORD TO PAY A NEW COACH A LARGE SALARY?

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You don’t have trade Josh, if Josh wan’t to leave at the end of his contract, then good let it be and also Zaza 5MILL of the books, thats 18 mill of the books next year.

Amnesty Marvin contract this year so Hawks can sign Mcgee.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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IF JOSH, AND ZAZA LEAVE NEXT YEAR 18MILL OFF THE BOOK.

TEAGUE, JOE, ?, HORFOD, MCGEE

MELO WILL STEP IN WHEN ZAZA LEAVE.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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MistaGamer

May 16th, 2012
10:36 pm

Here’s the thing about trading Josh. While it is ideal for all those that have been trying to find a reason to get rid of him since, forever, you better get back equal value or we will see this team as not even exciting enough to watch much less good enough to watch.

Bottom line is, if you trade Josh you’re going to have to get at least (2), and i can even make an argument for (3), players that will the affect the game and give you the production of 1 Josh.

You’re not going to get a top tier player that is close to equal or more productive than Josh. So you’re going to be stuck with 2nd tier players. There is no 2nd tier player that you’re going to plug into the starting lineup that is going to give you anything close to the production of Josh so this team immediately becomes a worse team.

So that is the dilemma. It is sad that we have come to a point where people are arguing that we have to give away our best all round player because of the money that we are paying our 3rd best all around player. (At least that is the way Charles Barkley sees it, and I agree)

****************************

First off, Josh Smith or anybody else on this team is a “box office draw”, so nobody is going to watch them anyway. I doubt very few Hawk fans go to Philips saying . . . “man . . I can’t wait to see Josh Smith ( or any other Hawk ) play tonight against the Sixers”.

So whatever perceived “excitement” factor that Josh brings, shouldn’t even be an issue here, because people aren’t flocking to Philips to watch Josh’s “excitment” anyway.

But back to the topic:

Game 3 of the Boston series proves the notion that without Josh the team would fall, to be absolutely wrong. All you need is for people to simply step up.

- Joe Johnson and Jeff Teague combined for 52 points on 44 shots. Both were much more aggressive offensively without having to defer to Josh. In the series, JJ – Josh – Teague COMBINED averaged 48 points on 44 shots

- Marvin Williams ( 11 ), Joe Johnson ( 7 ) and Tracy McGrady ( 6 ) essentially grabbed all of the defensive rebounds that Josh would’ve grabbed, plus upped their total a bit. In this series, JJ – Josh – Marvin and McGrady COMBINED averaged 17 defensive rebounds a game, with Josh averaging 11.6 defensive rebounds on his own.

( and remember . . the night that Marvin grabbed those 11 defensive rebounds, we were told by “other bloggers” that those rebounds were “hollow and meaningless” because the Celtics don’t go after offensive rebounds. If that’s true, this means that Josh’s defensive rebounds in this series were also “hollow and meaningless”, as well as the increased rebounding totals in Game 3 by JJ and T-Mac )

- Hawks survived at center with Jason Collins and Erick Dampier manning the center spot for 42 of the 53 minutes of that game.

- The 40.5% FG shooting the Hawks held Boston to, was the 2nd lowest of the series . . and this despite only having 4 blocks in the game.

- No Josh, No Al, No Zaza . . and the Hawks STILL should’ve won that game, if not for some baffling player rotations ( Drew not playing Hinrich for defense, instead opting for Pargo for offense . . . only playing Ivan 11 minutes, etc ), and T-Mac getting hurt in the 2nd quarter.

*********************

The thing that most of you forget about this team, is that we DO have someone who can replace Josh Smith at PF. And his name is Al Horford. And we simply move Zaza to center. And we wouldn’t lose a beat.

The question is, who will be the backup center and PF. I think Ivan has done enough to lock down the backup PF spot, if the Hawks want him and pay him enough to keep him here. ( I’d personally go 3 yrs – 6 million . . with a player option in Year 2, and a team option in year 3 ).

An increased role for Ivan would be the key in a Josh trade. His Per 36 numbers indicate that not only could he be a good rebounder, but also a decent scorer in a secondary role.

So say we do like I suggest that we do, and try to woo Deron Williams into coming to Atlanta. And you offer up Josh + Teague for Deron. This is the lineup:

Deron
Johnson
Marvin
Horford
Zaza

Ivan ( 6th man )

Then you go to the Dollar Store, and fill in the blanks with those vet minimum players. And when you go shopping, you shop for SPECIFIC roles that these bench players should play. They all can’t be “shooters”. Gotta mix in shooters with defenders.

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So is it safe to conclude that maybe Boston is just a really good defensive team that makes their opponent play really ugly basketball? Or do we need to see another series before reaching that conclusion? After watching guys like Pierce, Kobe and Granger stink up recent playoff games, is it safe yet to conclude that when playing elite teams, it is very hard to be a prolific scorer game-after-game? (Throw in Durant and the <80 points his team put up last night). Is it safe to conclude that the ability to execute may be more important in the postseason than the ability to run fast, jump high or dunk gracefully?

Two themes continue to pop up as I watch other series… coaching matters (helps with that whole execution thing) and so does toughness (again, helps with that whole execution thing). And toughness comes in two forms, mental and physical.

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Even if Deron is out of the question, both Josh and JJ could still be traded for a good player. And all you have to do is look west.

Pau Gasol

Hawk fans who want to transform this team, should hope for a Thunder sweep of the Lakers, to prompt the Lakers to go into panic mode. We know that the initial target for them will be Dwight Howard. If that falls through, the Hawks should step in and dangle Joe Johnson and Josh Smith in their face, and tell them to pick one.

Of course I would prefer to have Bynum, but the Lakers aren’t giving him up. The guy that COULD be had ( in my opinion ) is Pau Gasol.

*************************

SCENARIO #1:

In a Joe Johnson trade, you offer them JJ for Pau . . . straight up . . no chaser. Both are going to make essentially the same amount of money next year. The appeal of this deal is to simply change up the mix for both teams.

You’d give the Lakers a legit All-Star perimeter threat to play alongside Kobe . . and to keep on the floor when you’re trying to get Kobe rest in between quarters. For the Hawks, you give them another premier frontline player who actually acts as a 1 year insurance policy if Josh or the Hawks choose not to re-sign after the 2013 season.

Lakers:

PG – Sessions
G – Kobe
F – Johnson
PF – Jordan Hill ( whom they love, despite his legal troubles )
C – Bynum

Or the Lakers could play small ball, and play World Peace at the 4, and let Bynum have the paint all to himself.

Hawks:

PG – Teague
G – Veteran Free agent ( not Jamal, because he wants to get paid )
F – Smith
PF – Gasol
C – Horford

That frontline essentially becomes the best in the league, especially if Smith could control his shot selection and maybe accept a Point Forward playmaking role. You also now have the option to bring in Marvin as the 6th man at SF, and rotate Smith, Horford, and Gasol at the PF and C spots, keeping at least one of those guys on the floor at all times.

Those of you who think that JJ can’t be traded, aren’t paying attention to the league. If the Hawks wanted to move JJ, they can and will find someone who will take him.

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“…To say Jamal was the missing piece is crazy, when al, zaza and josh were hurt.
Imo they were the missing pieces.

I would have liked to see Jamal try to score against Avery Bradley….” – rufus1

Oh, Jamal [Crawford] would’ve lit him [Avery Bradley] up like [the movie,] “Backdraft” unless, of course, the Celtics [would have] decided to double-team Crawford. Furthermore, he [Crawford] would have contributed a helluva lot more than what [Kirk] Hinrich gave the Hawks this postseason. Through the first four postseason games last year [vs. the Magic], Crawford scored 96 points. Through the first four postseason games this year [vs. the Celtics], Hinrich scored 22 points.

“You do the math. You add it up. And after you’ve finished, [you] book it.” – High-sider

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They said this!

“When two men in business agree, one of them is unnecessary.” – author unknown -

“A successful stock broker, never falls in love with his stocks.” – John Schurholtz -

“Prosperity conceals genius, adversity reveals it.” – author unknown -

“There is no calamity in not reaching your goals, the calamity is having no goals to reach.”
- author unknown -

“If you don’t know where you are going, any road will take you there.” – author unknown -

“If the players you have don’t do what you need, then get new players.” – Hubie Brown -

“If nothing is broken, then break it … so, you can fix it.” – a college football coach -
_____________

These are just a few of my favorite quotes. Sorry, I can’t find my book to tell you who said most of these. (smiles) But, these quotes changed my life along the way and, I have never forgotten them.

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SCENARIO #2

In a Josh Smith trade, you have to make the numbers work. Pau will make 19 million next year. Josh is due to make 13.2 million next year. So we’d have to at least pair up 4+ million worth of contracts to send to L.A to get Pau.

The Candidates ( which are only 2 guys ):

- Zaza ( 5.25 million )
- Marvin ( 8.29 million )

Adding one of these guys + Josh Smith brings in Pau. Hawks would probably want to hold onto Zaza for that extra big man, so the guy to be dealt would be Josh + Marvin.

LAKERS

PG – Sessions
G – Kobe
F – World Peace
PF – Smith
C – Bynum

6th man – Marvin

It’ll probably be a scenario in which the Lakers would opt to start World Peace for defense, but opt to bring in Marvin when they needed outside shooting. Josh would get to play PF, and probably C in a smallish lineup with the reserves.

HAWKS

PG – Teague
G – Johnson
F – Free Agent Vet
PF – Gasol
C – Horford

A lot of you have always said that SF is the easiest position to fill in the NBA. If a trade like this went down, I’d rather get a guy who was a defensive SF who could make an occasional shot, and let the other 4 guys worry about offense. The usual SG/SF suspects come to mind

- Matt Barnes
- Deshawn Stevenson
- Keith Bogans ( who would play the 2, sliding JJ to the 3 )
- Wilson Chandler ( a pipe dream, but would be a big time defensive pick-up )
- Tayshawn Prince ( another pipe dream . . will probably be playing in MIA next year )
- maybe a re-signed Kirk Hinrich on the cheap

From a business and culture perspective, you do change the makeup of the team. Teague may get a little more offensive freedom with this lineup. Zaza and hopefully Ivan would be your backup C and PF. Just have to add role playing guards to pick up the slack on the bench.

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Just Joe,

I noticed you been pushing that Cleveland deal for Marvin for a while now. Sure you have lots of scenarios, but please tell me why would a team trade for Marvin and give you and expiring deal for a guy that has done nothing and still has 2 yrs left and is owed 15M on his deal? Those teams that are desperate for a young small forward will simply sign one for cheap off someone else bench for maybe 2 or 3 million. Maybe Washington would do the Blatche deal if they are burned out with him. But Cleveland aint doing that deal man, unless you are offering them something. I dont even think marvin can be traded if you threw in a 1st round pick, lol

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northcyde, I’m not a believer in the thunder (I think they are still not quite ready) but I am hoping for a Lakers beatdown for the reason you mentioned above. If the lakers lose to the Thunder, they will likely react by trying to improve their athleticism and we have the right assets to offer them for Gasol. When I look across the NBA and look at players who could potentialy pull a “Dirk” (top 10-15 player on the decline who can put a team on his shoulders for about 2-3 weeks), Gasol is the one that comes to mind first. But honestly, #5 in Boston may be doing that right now… he has been unbelievable so far.

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Donna Summers (RIP) cancer

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High-sider

The don’t have 1 perimeter defender as good as Avery Bradley….
See Jamal’s stats against the bulls for a true gauge.
(the Magic)

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rufus1,

“The don’t have 1 perimeter defender as good as Avery Bradley….
See Jamal’s stats against the bulls for a true gauge.
(the Magic)”

Yeah, the 6′2 Bradley sure does compare defensively to to 6-5 Bogans and the 6-8 Ronnie Brewer. Plus if you watched the Chicago series they started doubling Jamal Just like they did Joe. You have not said anything that makes any sense in the past 2 years on this blog. Give it up.

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The offense is much better with Teague running the offense. If we have 5 very good players in the lineup and Joe still goes ISO in crunch time, we still will lose. ISO Joe is easy to defend and that is the reason Joe always shoots such a low percentage when it counts (playoffs).

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It is not a free-for-all in which “schizophrenic offensive shooters” save the day by scoring 30 points in a game.

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Wouldn’t it be interesting if Josh was traded for our first round pick back in 2001? If we could make the dollars work out, that could be an ‘win-win’ trade for both clubs. Perhaps Kobe could be the influence to help Josh realize his full potential (maybe an more athletic Lamar Odom) and Pau Gasol could be the scoring center we’ve lacked for years. Interior defense might suffer some but we would offset that offensively.

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This is how we get out of the Marvin salary dump……..I am following the Lamar Odom/Laker to Dallas model:

Trade exceptions are difficult to explain, but the Lakers can obtain a player from another team by trading only a draft pick if the player makes less than $9 million. Teams have exactly one year to use a traded-player exception.

And say that a Portland does that deal, and gives us a #2 and a TPE, couldn’t Portland enforce a rule where Marvin redoes his last 2 years of that deal?

With this scenario, you gotta be creative and keep Sund’s 2nd place Exec of the Year slot look legit.

Yes, you’re right, Sund is anything but creative.

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Northcyde

Facts are unimportant when comes to certain players, for certain ppl.

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Offer Smith & Williams for Howard – Orlando has run out of other offers and that would be the best they can get.

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glw…Cleveland takes on Marvin’s 2yr $15.5M contract because of a few reasons…his ability to knock down 3’s at a 40% clip while standing 6′9″ with a 7′+ wingspan, which allowed him to rebound this year at a per minute rate on par with the top small forwards in the league. If they draft Beal and pair him with Irving in the backcourt, then all they need Marvin to do is stand in the corner on offense and rebound & defend on the other end.

Cleveland will believe that they have better coaching & a better scheme than Atlanta. Its that arrogance that will lead them to trade for Marvin, and in the end, be disappointed with their acquisition. But lets face it, Walton is never going to play for Cleveland, so its not like they’re giving up anything.

K. Irving, B. Beal, M. Williams, T. Thompson, A. Verejao….with the Lakers’ 1st rd pick plus an early 2nd rd pick.

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@Rufus1

I know the Atlanta Hawks with Jamal Crawford won four postseason games in 2010 and advanced to the EC Semifinals.

I know the Atlanta Hawks with Jamal Crawford won six postseason games in 2011 and advanced to the EC Semifinals.

I know the Atlanta Hawks WITHOUT Jamal Crawford won two postseason games in 2012 and FAILED to advance to the EC Semifinals.

I know that the Atlanta Hawks in 2010-2011 with Jamal Crawford won 53 games. The Hawks had not won 50+ games since, I believe, the 1997-1998 season.

I know that the Atlanta Hawks in the 2011 postseason with Jamal Crawford won its first EC Semifinals game since, I believe, 1997. Jamal Crawford scored 22 points in that EC Semifinals [victory] game.

I know the Atlanta Hawks with Jamal Crawford won two consecutive elimination games vs. the Bucks in 2010 to advance to the EC Semifinals. Jamal Crawford scored 24 points and 22 points, respectively, in Game(s) 6 and 7 off the bench which also led the Hawks in scoring. Game 6 vs. the Bucks was a “road” elimination game and Game 7 vs. the Bucks was a “home” elimination/close-out game for the Hawks.

I know Jamal Crawford is/was the only Hawks’ player in franchise history to win the SMOY [Sixth Man of the Year] Award.

I know Jamal Crawford scored 20+ points off the bench in 49-50 games in two Hawks’ regular seasons.

I know Jamal Crawford scored 23+ points off the bench in four consecutive postseason games vs. the Magic in 2011.

I know Jamal Crawford with the Hawks averaged 20+ppg vs. Magic as a reserve in the 2011 postseason.

I know Jamal Crawford with the Hawks averaged 20+ppg vs. the Celtics in the 2010 regular season and 15.0ppg vs. the Celtics in the 2011 regular season and became known as the Hawks’ [new] “Boston Strangler.”

I know Jamal Crawford with the Blazers in 2011-2012 led the NBA in FT% at 0.927 or 92.7%. Correct me, if I’m wrong, but didn’t Al Horford miss the first of two free throws that could have tied the game late in the 4th quarter in Game 6 vs. the Celtics this 2012 postseason. Can you say “poetic justice”?

I know Jamal Crawford has the most 4-point plays in NBA history with 36 [34 in the regular season and two [2] in the postseason]. Jamal Crawford set that [4-pt. play] record while he was playing for the Hawks.

I know Jamal Crawford scored 50+ points for three [separate] NBA franchises – CHI, NYK and GSW.

I know Jamal Crawford is a respected scorer by NBA experts, analysts and pundits.

I know Jamal Crawford is a “true” NBA baller.

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“northcyde is en fuego.”

That’s usually what two dudes that like each other say. My man is hot. SMH

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We need JaVale McGee!!!!!!!!!

Amnesty Marvin or trade him for a second round pick or something. The Hawks would be stupid to give him a pay raise for just running up and down the court.

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PG-Teague
SG-Joe
SF-Josh
PF-Horford
C-Mcgee

Bench – Zaza, Willie Green, Tmac, Big Ivan, Fab Melo, Pargo, second round pick, Free agent.

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RFCP,

The results and point totals are exactly what they are. We were better on defense in the playoffs this year than the last two. IMO, Jamal’s absence was a definite factor.

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Just Joe,

wow, you really playing marvin up. sounds like his scouting report coming out of college. Yeah the Hawks fell for that when he came out, and passed on Paul and Williams. You must not have read the most updated scouting report on him: athletic and plays hard, but inconsistent doesnt always show up, no post up ability though being bigger than most 3’s, not very balanced, at best a 10ppg on an average team. So again, why would Cleveland trade Luke Walton’s expiring contract for Marvin’s? If they need a small forward, am sure there are plenty of other guys out there for 2 million a year. Marvin is virtually untradeable unless he is package with other pieces, or you must be willing ot take back a worse contract than Marvin’s. Luke Waltons contract is not worse.

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WE NEED A COACH THAT WILL GIVE PLAYING TIME BASED ON RESULTS NOT HOW HIGH THEY WAS DRAFTED.

FIRE LD

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Just like glw said Marvin has no trade value. We need to amnesty him before the pay raise kicks in.

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I used to want J. McGee before Washington traded him but unless we get a new coach I’m not sure he helps. If people think Josh makes bad decision, McGee would be much worse. A strong coach is needed, until then roster moves won’t make much a difference.

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Acquiring a good center would be nice… Al could shift to PF and Josh to SF. Zaza is alright but we need better. Although this might be a stretch, Spencer Hawes is set to be an UFA.

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Hawks’ Summer 2012:

June 22: Rick Sund accepts job as GM of Portland Trailblazers. David Pendergraft is named the Atlanta Hawks GM.
Michael Gearon Jr: “We want to thank Rick Sund for his contributions to the Atlanta Hawks franchise. He is a very savvy and professional executive who really helped this team mature and grow through the years. We wish him nothing but the best”

June 24: Hawks pick up Larry Drew’s option.

July 3: A list of teams interested in JaVale McGee is reported, with the Hawks among them. The Hawks do not end up signing JaVale McGee.

July 5: A list of teams interested in Jason Terry is reported, including the Hawks. The Hawks ideally want Terry in a 6th Man role, but he shuns the Hawks, given how his prior stint with the franchise occurred.

July 6: Hawks sign Kirk Hinrich to $12 million/3 year contract.
David Pendergraft: “Kirk Hinrich has been an integral part of this franchise since we traded for him in February 2011. He has taken Jeff Teague under his wing and shown him the ropes of the game”

July 12: Joe Johnson on whether moves need to be made: “Nah man. What we got here is good. We just need to sign a few vets. We really kept our resolve this year, given all the injuries we had to endure.

July 14: Marvin Williams on his summer:
“Man I’ve just been at Chapel Hill. I just got a few semesters left until I get this African Studies Degree.
**MC: What aspects of your game are you working on this summer?
-Marvin: Just perimeter shooting in general. I need to become more reliable as a 3 point shooter also. I’m still working out with Sean May, and I even saw Raymond Felton drop by a few days ago

July 18: Michael Gearon Jr. interview with Michael Cunningham
**MC: What do you think about Joe’s performance on his contract so far?
-Gearon: I think he is still an elite shooting guard. Most people don’t know this, but Joe has had knee issues the last few years, and the fact he has insisted on playing shows he is a true warrior. That’s the funny thing about the NBA. Going into summer 2010, we had about 8 million in cap space if we let Joe go. So who do we go sign and still maintain our status as the 3 seed in the East if Joe leaves? Do we sign Bubba Jones off the street [Gearon laughs while MC looks at him curiously]?
**MC: What do you have to say to those who claim the team has taken a step back from last year?
-Gearon: That’s the funny thing about the NBA. You can overachieve in the regular season given what you have, and in the Playoffs, it’s a whole different animal. You look at the Dallas Mavericks. They won the Championship last year. They lost Tyson Chandler. They added the NBA’s 6th Man from last year. This year, they got swept by the Oklahoma City Thunder. We lost in 6 games to a team that has been elite for 5 years. We were the most injured Playoff team in the league this year. You cannot judge this team based off one Playoff series. We had a two-time All-Star who missed almost the entire regular season. 
**MC: A lot of fans have the feeling that it’s the same drill every season and the ownership isn’t dedicated to winning – that this core has hit its ceiling
-Gearon: [Laughs]. Michael, you look at the Detroit Pistons, the San Antonio Spurs, and the Boston Celtics. Those main cores have been together for years. Have they been to the Finals every single year that their core has been together? An analogy I like to use is that you have to crawl before you walk. Josh and Al are just now entering their prime ages, and Joe is a 6x NBA All Star. You look at our Playoffs series against Boston. Going against 4 future Hall of Famers and a Hall of Fame coach, we played tremendous defense. We are always looking to build on what we did well and address what didn’t. Like, if I go to the same restaurant, let’s say ZaZa’s, and the service is lousy each time (God Bless ZaZa [chuckles]!), do I just quietly take the bad service every time I go? Let’s say the restaurant allows the patrons to fill out anonymous surveys. The key, Michael, is you always have to evaluate the situation and try to improve what’s good and address what’s bad. [MC thinks: "What the hell does that story have to do with anything?]
-Gearon: I know a lot of fans are upset about not winning a Championship this year, but so are 28 other teams. You look at Sacramento and Golden State. Those teams were last relevant when I HAD hair [chuckles]!
**MC: It’s been widely reported Josh Smith wants out. How do you plan on dealing with the situation?
-Gearon: I’ve known Josh and his family for so many years and it’s been incredible watching him grow up from a skinny high school kid all the way to a star in the NBA. He is the engine that keeps this team moving, especially with the injuries to several key guys this year. You look at LeBron James and you look at Josh Smith, and these are two very special players……[**notice how the question isn't actually addressed]

July 24: Larry Drew interview with Michael Cunningham
**MC: What changes do you hope to bring to this roster in terms of coaching this season?
-LD: We need to approach this season with a certain physicality. I noticed at times these last two seasons we did not display a certain sense of urgency, and if you do that in the NBA, it will be a long season.
**MC: Many people say that Josh Smith’s jumpshooting has been out of control, moreso than it was when Woodson was here. How do you plan to address this for the coming season?
-LD: ………um, well Josh has to recognize his role in the offense. He is so important to this team.
**MC: Do you have anything to say about Marvin or Horford? Marvin, one can say, had a dreadful first 4 games in the Boston series, and Joe really looked uninspiring at time in the regular season and playoffs.
-LD: No. Those guys are not allowed to be called out. It is clear that Teague and Josh Smith are the scapegoats for every problem this team has.

August 2: Hawks offer Ivan Johnson 1 year contract for the smallest possible amount. Ivan, seeing Pendergraft at the Hawks gym one morning, curses him out and has to be restrained by Anthony Johnson.

August 5: Hawks sign veteran guard Mike James to 1-year veteran minimum contract

August 11: Hawks sign veteran forward Darius Miles to 1-year veteran minimum contract

October 14: Hawks sign Matt Harpring as player development coach

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jamal has become a greater figment of the imagination than santa claus.

all he needed to do to stay was to play for vet minimum.

i am as sure that doc would have shut jamal dwn just as effectively as thibs did. at least i am just as sure of this as anyone that suggests that jamal couod have been the gate to the ecf. got it? i too can play the santa claus game and make stuff up. neither santa claus or any statement of what difference jamal might have made have any basis in reality. i prefer reality. my reality is there were no funds for jamal.

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Funny Stuff!

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
May 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
__________

I really enjoyed that … Nice to see we haven’t lost our sense of humor. Hahahaha

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“i am as sure that doc would have shut jamal dwn just as effectively as thibs did. at least i am just as sure of this as anyone that suggests that jamal couod have been the gate to the ecf. got it? i too can play the santa claus game and make stuff up. neither santa claus or any statement of what difference jamal might have made have any basis in reality. i prefer reality. my reality is there were no funds for jamal.”

The reality is Jamal’s numbers against the Celtics when he played for Atlanta were much better than his overall career numbers. That is reality. It’s not fantasy. Look them up. You are a doctor, do your research. Could it be because they don’t have anyone who can check him, except maybe Rondo? Are you as sure about Doc being able to shut him down like Thibs did, as you were about Drew not backstabbing Woodson to get the job. If so, I would tend not to trust your opinion, as much as I trust mine. LOL

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No matter how someone trys to explain the Hawks financial situation, some of you still can’t see the forest for the trees. Even though we’ve all been told over and over that this franchise is financially stapped, we still get these stupid comments about amnesting JJohnson. It somehow doesn’t seem to get through the thick skulls of some that amnesting a player still obligates a team to pay his salary, it just doesn’t count against the cap.

When you have to add an additional salary to replace the player you amnested, how in the hell does creating more financial debt help the team? Man, some of you are so dense. Barring new ownership, we need to look at coaching. The 1st question that needs to be asked is, can better coaching get better results from the talent we have.

Can a stronger and more experienced coaching personality with a fresh and different perspective get the attention of JJohnson and JSmith, who are our 2 most disruptive players, as well as 2 of our most talented? Can a HC like Nate McMillian, for instance, have that type of effect on them, as well as the team overall. If so, that should be our 1st move.

If JSmith can’t be convinced to resigned after the season, or it’s believed he’ll continue his same bad habits and immaturity, then trade him for something we can use. I think Teague can run this OFF with ease as long as he doesn’t have to constantly deal the dominant and/or disruptive personalities of both JJ and Josh.

Since Josh is a FA after this season, and he seems to want out, we need to trade him for some needed assets, preferably a young athletic center or a high pick that will allow us to draft one. We then need to use our own 1st rd pick to draft an athletic scoring SF that plays DEF and rebounds.

That would give us a starting lineup of Teague-PG, JJ-SG, Draft Pick-SF, Zaza-C, and Horford-PF. Our bench could be Draft Pick-C, IJohnson-C/PF, Pargo-PG, WGreen-SG, Marvin-SF/PF, filler. The most important aspect of this team would be having a HC with the willingness and will to insist that everyone stick to the OFF and play solid DEF.

We’ve seen how effective and productive Zaza can be as a starter, and we’ve seen how Horford can impact this team, even at less than 100%. With Horford at PF, DEFs won’t invite Horford to launch jumpers like they do Josh. And having a SF that can put the ball on the floor and get to the rim and/or FT line will really balance our OFF out. All JJ needs to do is launch open jumpers and post up. No more ISO Joe. Just my opinion.

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Rod and High-sider,

Not making the 2nd rd..
Was more about not playing the Magic and the injuries to our front line, that was the difference this year….NOT Jamal.

We DESTROYED the Magic this year without Jamal and would have beat them in the playoffs if we would have played them.

We played a better team this year in the 1st rd and lost.
We had injuries this year and lost.(Everyone was healthy against the Magic)… Health matters

Repeating that we made it to the 2nd Rd last year can’t be argued, but I could argue that Zaza was the difference if I use your line of thinking.

Everything we did this year say we were better without Jamal…Except the 1st rd exit.

We didn’t have a healthy Josh(except in game 1 and we won)
We didn’t a healthy Al
We didn’t have a healthy Zaza
but you say we lost because we were missing a “Ball chucking”, defensive liability in Jamal Crawford, who DISAPPEARS against great defenses….REALLY?

PS. Jamal made 11mil last year and got shut down by some journey man in the Bulls series, but he would have been the difference in this series…Really, Stop make excuses?

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Great post Jeje

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@Rufus1

“…Everything we did this year say we were better without Jamal…Except the 1st rd exit.

We didn’t have a healthy Josh(except in game 1 and we won)
We didn’t a healthy Al
We didn’t have a healthy Zaza
but you say we lost because we were missing a “Ball chucking”, defensive liability in Jamal Crawford, who DISAPPEARS against great defenses….REALLY?

PS. Jamal made 11mil last year and got shut down by some journey man in the Bulls series, but he would have been the difference in this series…Really, Stop make excuses?” – Rufus1

One of the major themes Larry Drew tried to impress on the Hawks [team] this past season was “No Excuses.” You, Rufus1, listed at least three excuses [as to] why the Hawks didn’t advance past the first round this postseason and then you, Rufus1, [attempt to] command me to stop making excuses [concerning Jamal Crawford]. If that isn’t hypocritical, [then] I don’t know what is. [smh]

“Practice what you preach.”

“Check yourself before you wreck yourself.”

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“I totally agree, except for the Kirk Hinric stuff. He is just as useless as Marvin.” – Rod from C.P.

Agreed! He’s just not nearly as useless as Pargo and Green.

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High-sider,

Great minds think alike. Fred Sanford says it best. “YOU BIG DUMMY”. Notice his name in all my post is DUFUS1. Must be related to Marvin.

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Rod from College Park
May 17th, 2012
7:29 pm

High-sider,

Great minds think alike. Fred Sanford says it best. “YOU BIG DUMMY”. Notice his name in all my post is DUFUS1. Must be related to Marvin.
—————————————————————–

Co-sign.

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High-Sider,

Once again:

It’s a testimony to just how much those numbers bother you, that you have now made post after post to try and discredit them. LOL.

Post after post. Shall I count them? Too bad you can’t let what the numbers say inform you. Even Rod admits that Jamal was a poor defensive player. My point was in a vacuum, but you would think that I was personally accosting you. You “wear” your Crawford colors so proudly that any mention of something negative about him and you over-react. I guess you don’t see it.

So will you claim a victory and do a dance again like a teenager? An empty victory if you do, since I was not arguing with you, but listing statistics. Statistics that apparently are an Inconvenient Truth for you, based on post after post attempting to discredit them.

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Contrary to some on this blog, I still think Joe to the Pacers would be a good trade for both teams. I prefer Paul George, pick and cap space in return for the Hawks but the Pacers may be more inclined to send back Granger instead but I would still make the trade if I was the Hawks. Moving Joe contract is the main reason for this trade to allow cap flexibility going forward.

Watching the Heat/Pacers game, its evident that the Pacers are missing a better wing player to go along with Hibbert/ West. Granger is not on the Joe level and Joe would be a better fit/option for the Pacers than Granger.

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“Teague at 80 & Joe and Al at 84? Funny.”

Well, the point was more to show that Josh > Joe & Al > Teague. But I suppose if Teague had sat on the bench all year, he would be ranked higher.

Maybe the Hawks should sign up The-Dream to play PG. With those outstanding courtside seats, he must fully understand the point guard position by now.

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Jay Dubu,

Keep in mind there’s a slight difference in amnesty and paying the luxury tax if the Hawks execute it effectively. If the Hawks amnesty Player X then sign another player (s) and remain under the luxury tax line, then they will still receive Luxury Tax revenue sharing funds at the end of the season to help offset the salary that’s being amnesty. Also, if the signing of the new player(s) improve the team and produce more playoffs home games than that will create more revenue to help offset the team bottom line. So using the Amnesty effectively could result in more revenue and team improvement.

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“And in other news, a local village has lost it’s idiot…..”

Everyone look out for Big Ray. He’s lost. LOL Still want to defend Marvin Williams huh?

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“Neither Al nor Zaza is a good help defender. This team got by all season with Zaza at center because he was playing next to one of the best help defenders in the league. Zaza at C and Al at PF = layup line.

Say what you want about Josh’s mental lapses and shot selection but he is the reason this team finished 5th in defense.”

Ding.

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“So will you claim a victory and do a dance again like a teenager? An empty victory if you do, since I was not arguing with you, but listing statistics. Statistics that apparently are an Inconvenient Truth for you, based on post after post attempting to discredit them.”

You do know that stats can be used to justify almost any argument Nullification. Stats say Marvin Williams in middle of the road. Hawks fans know better.

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MC has his LD interview/story up and LD talks about how he was a positive reinforcer for the players.

Yet, “Swingman Tracy McGrady complained the loudest. In February he said he deserved more playing time and that Drew hadn’t adequately explained why his minutes had been erratic.

“I was more disappointed than anything,” McGrady said at season’s end. “It was frustrating. I felt like I could have gave more.”

Is T-Mac just accepting the fact that Kirk and Marvin has bigger roles since their paychecks were so big? T-Mac doesn’t sound on the same page with LD.

There is no way you can state that this team played hard night in and night out. The Atlanta Hawks have a limited knowledge on what it takes to be a real contender.

Willie Green calls it a great year…I guess you can say that when you’re on the brink of being out of the league, and you get a full year’s salary.

No matter what comes of LD, the players will never come out and state that they can’t beat teams over .500 with regularity.

My prediction at the beginning of the year was the Hawks would lose to Miami in the playoffs. They didn’t even meet that expectation of getting to the 2nd round.

I dread the thought of Sund bringing in a coach of his liking.

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“glw

May 17th, 2012
5:41 pm
The only way Cleveland does that is if you do

Luke Walton for Marvin and 1st round draft pick”

Please don’t tell me you’re starting to think like Rick Sund….the guy would ooze with exuberance because we bring in Bill’s boy here, and his natural ability to lead.

At least we can say like with Josh Powell, we have a guy here who knows what it takes to win a championship ring!

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And I will go ahead and make a statement for which I will get pilloried – I think if the Hawks had Jamal this season, and he was properly utilized, we win the Celtics series. A player of Jamal’s caliber – rated 75th best player in the NBA this past off season by ESPN, surely gives you what you need to win that Game 3 and 6 in Boston, and maybe even hold that lead in Game 2. Jamal is durable also.

But would LD have used him properly? The same guy who left Teague to rot? The same guy who tried to have ZaZa traded for Miller, because he didn’t like ZaZa for calling him out about his inconsistencies? What kind of mess would we have been if that trade had gone thru?

The same guy who cost us Jordan Crawford, a shot a Kenneth Faried, Mo Evans, because of his incompetence?

I’m not sure he would have used Jamal properly.

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Go Pacers!! 66-55 in the 3rd

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Big Ray,

How you like Roy Hibbert now?….. LOL, I told you he’s gotten better…

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San Antonio acquiring Stephen Jackson, and using him effectively in the playoffs, should answer this Jamal question for all really. Nit pick about Jamal and Jackson’s differences all you want, but they essentially serve the same purpose, and have throughout their career’s.

Jackson shot 38.7% from the floor in the regular season, 28.8% from 3, but THE BEST COACH IN THE LEAGUE saw where he could use a respected scorer like Stephen Jackson for another run at a title – A CHAMPIONSHIP.

So Jackson has been playing 20-30 mpg in the playoffs – because THE BEST COACH IN THE LEAGUE KNOWS THE VALUE OF A SCORER IN THIS LEAGUE.

Really, this settled it for me. Again, nitpick if you want. Nuance if you want. But Jamal properly used helps the Hawks this season.

But we didn’t have him, so no use crying over spilt milk.

Rod was right. Hawks built for the compressed regular season schedule. But sure could have used Jamal in the playoffs.

And contrary to popular belief, I’m not a Jamal pangyrist.

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“San Antonio acquiring Stephen Jackson, and using him effectively in the playoffs, should answer this Jamal question for all really. Nit pick about Jamal and Jackson’s differences all you want, but they essentially serve the same purpose, and have throughout their career’s”

Exactly correct Steve W. I will give Jackson a little more defensive credit than Jamal but they do serve the same purpose. They are gunners. Hired assassins. Coaching will and always has been the issue with the Hawks. Most of these idiots on the blog said no way would they take Steven Jackson (because of attitude and shot selection), or Boris Diaw, or Javale McGee. They all go to teams with great coaching and look like totally different players. I wonder why? Jamal did many things offensively for this team that people who don’t know the game don’t understand. He opened up the floor, commanded a double team, took pressure off of Joe, was one of the best on the team in the playoffs at getting to the line, handled the ball well……. But all they see is his defensive weaknesses. We averaged 81 ppg in a playoff series. Speaks volumes. Philly is averaging 88ppg vs the Celtics so far in their series, and we were better than then offensively this season.

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Indy is deep – If they had a backup C, they may win this thing – but I think OKC is the team to beat. Nazr, DFish, and Perkins gives them the experience they need.

And Westbrook is their Josh; He can both win and lose games for OKC at the same time.

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SteveW agree 100% what you say about LD,a poor exuse for a good team,but be careful or grandpa will diagree with you & call you stupid.

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Hey Al real center play defense and own the boards. You are the reason why the Hawks will never get to the championship game. Your attitude sucks as much as your All Average Play.

Hibbert was your Judge tonight with 19pts 18rbs and 5(FIVE) BLOCKS. If Al hoford played like the Hibbert did wed be going to the championship…. and Hibbert is a scrub.

Al your whining and mediocre play along with fighting in the locker room Hurt the hawks again this year. You should be the 1st one that should be traded. Perhaps the only one. You have done nothing for this team.

You have peaked
you are average
You done play defense
you fight your teammate
and you wont play center

GET LOST AL HORFORD

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2012 Playoffs

Al Horford: 1.33 blks / gm 1.78 blks / 48 min

Josh Smith: 1.0 blks / gm 1.23 blks / 48 min

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“Really, yet your whole post is full of excuses . You are even dumber than I thought. The purpose of the regular season is to be good enough to get to the playoffs. Once you get to the playoffs the best teams advance. So if we advanced to the second round last year, but lost in the first round this year, how are we better? Typical Atlanta fan logic. I’m proud of the team because they had injuries but still played well. Losers mentality. Guess what Boston had injuries also. Ray Allen was injured. Rondo missed game two, a game which we still lost, and Paul Pierce played injured like Josh for the 5th and 6th game of the series. Guess what, they still won and advanced. Maybe since your mental capacity might not be that high, you need to look up what making excuses means, and then re-read my post and re-read your post. LOL”- ROD

I read that post and I don’t see your facts on how Jamal would have gotten us to the 2nd RD…or why he SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS against good defensive teams..or how he pissed his pants against the Bulls in the 2nd rd… or how he is more important than a healthy Josh, AL or Zaza…. I see the insults, but that is because you are defending an indefensible LOSER.

I know what an excuse is, this is the one you gave for Jamal’s performance against the Bulls.

“II seem to recall D. Rose, and Deng killing us. Majority of the time Jamal was matched up on the backup point guard or the two guard. He was guarded primarily by Bogans and Brewer. The guys who guarded Rose for the majority of that series were Teague and Joe. Offensively in that series he was just as good as our 2 time all-star center while playing less minutes. So why not bash Horford. He was not stellar on defense against the bulls either.”- ROD

Jamal the Difference between losing to the Celtics and going to the ECF, shut down by so journey men….Sounds like a winner to me.

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Dufus1,

You can surely do better than that. Or can you? No response needed. Go to technical school or junior college and get some knowledge. Learn what an excuse is.

“Everything we did this year say we were better without Jamal…Except the 1st rd exit.”

So are we better than Philly this year? We had a better regular season record.

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“To” not “top” in the first paragraph above

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Really, all I expect the Hawks to do this off season is dangle Josh for a lottery pick, or a Derrick Favors type, who is young, and from here, so they can win the PR battle.

And if there are no takers, they roll into next season with the same team as this season, with different backups.

And please JeJe – I hope no 3 year 12 mill deal for Hinrich. 2 years for 4 mill I can see as a backup G – he is versatile – but man I hope your wrong on that.

Your post was classic though – especially LD’s words. Good stuff.

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I look for Miami to make a run for Nash and weirdly enough, for Kwame Brown. I’m not sure Miami doesn’t take a flyer on a Brad Miller, Kurt Thomas or somebody either. Maybe even Jason Collins if we don’t re-sign him. Nah, their probably not that desperate.

This is only if they lose. Win, and things probably stay close to the same.

They still may go after Nash however.

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hated to see my Hawks lose against a bunch of old suckers….

I hope like hell the hawks get rid of Josh, i love smooth, but he always seem to cost the hawks games..he has no HEART..He never takes the ball to the rim when it counts..he just dosnt get it..

Marvin was solid once joe and josh decided to pass the ball…he saved the hawks in game 6th against orlando last year, and hit HUGE 3s in game 5 and 6 against bos this year….man, i have never seen a team waste a kid by letting two guys dominate the ball who never come thru,(joe and Josh) and always screw up in the end

the conclusion

the Hawks are stuck with Joe, but the good news is the hawks have batman and robin already in Al and Marvin.. the Hawks have to trade Josh…he is holding Al back from playing is natural position..we drafted al #3, time to let him shine, the guy we drafted #2 can easily step into the #2 scorer role behind al…Trade josh for best big man we can get..get over it people..Josh did it to us again..and dares anyone to say something about it…

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Go Spurs! Go Pacers! Watching the Cheat lose and the overrated Clipps go down/seeing the Spurs execute are 2 of he most beautiful things in the NBA

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Do the Clippers not understand that getting Blake Griffin the ball in the post when he is defended by Tim Duncan in not a good offensive play.

All this young talent, and the two best players in the playoffs have been Garnett and Duncan. Two of the best to ever play the PF position.

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@rod from cp

Marvin is 10x the player Danny Green will ever be

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Rusty

There is a difference;
SteveW contributes meaningful, lucid information to the blog.

Not continuous, redumbdant, hateful abhorence.

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“Watching San Antonio execute offensively is a thing of beauty. Hawks really should pay attention.” -Rod From College Park

Its all in the coaching. San Antonio has the offensive system they run and the Hawks don’t. Only 2 plays the Hawks run is pass to someone in the post or let someone go one on one on the perimeter.

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No doubt Worldwide Clyde. I totally agree. Coaching is the biggest issue.

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NOT AN AL HORFORD NUT HUGGER
May 17th, 2012
10:06 pm
—————————————————————————

Is that you, Slimjr?

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Rod from College Park

May 17th, 2012
11:32 pm

“Watching San Antonio execute offensively is a thing of beauty. Hawks really should pay attention. Teague needs to watch Parker, Marvin needs to watch Greene, and Joe needs to watch Ginobli.”

They [Hawks] would not begin to know how to play like that..You have to have players that trust each other and their coach….Hmmmmmmmm

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LD has to carefully watch Pops,he might actually see how an offense should be ran.

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Stephen Jackson also plays fine defense.

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T-mac Should of been the starting 3 all year long for this team hes a better playmaker than Teague and a much better finisher and decision maker than Joe johnson….Tracy Mcgrady could of easily avg 15 6 4 if given the role! T-Mac should of gone to the BULLS Start the 2 sharing time with deng 2-3………or better yet the starting forward in LA…next to Kobe………

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Pretty funny that MC quotes Willie Green saying nice things about Drew. “Coach is great… I’m the worst player on the team but he played me ahead of Hinrich! He definitely deserves to keep his job!”

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Gone and amnesty JJ OR Marvin and get it over with…hey, can we amnesty both?lol

GO get Nate McMillan and get it over with.

Oh, and until you get new owners…might as well keep SUND…he’s a bottom feeder specialist.lol

GO HAWK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HEH HEH

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No roster move you can think of will change the fact that with LD at the helm, the success threshold of the team is capped.

2nd round of the playoffs, at best.

Bring Dwight, Kobe, Lebron, whatever.

LD = Playoff mediocrity.

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“Rod from College Park
May 17th, 2012
11:32 pm
Watching San Antonio execute offensively is a thing of beauty. Hawks really should pay attention. Teague needs to watch Parker, Marvin needs to watch Greene, and Joe needs to watch Ginobli.”

Funny, this coming from a guy who said just a couple of weeks ago that he WAS NOT IMPRESSED WITH THE SPURS.

LOL!!!!!!!

Good to see you leave the dark side for once! In no time you’ll start to see that the most successful teams in the playoffs play D and rebound as their primary mantras.

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@ Buddy Grizzard

Great article man got around to reading I also feel the same about Josh it’s not our fault for most of those things you’ve mentioned.

Still though I do feel Josh gets way too much blame when you pay guys like Joe 120 mil a year to be the next Michael Jordan when he’s no more than Scottie Pippen actually that’s a little disrespect to Scottie, but he’s at least in the negihborhood.

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“Could it be because they don’t have anyone who can check him, except maybe Rondo?”

Um… Avery Bradley?”

Has Avery Bradley been voted to some all defensive team that I’m not aware of. Guy would have no chance. LOL

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Here is a question, would you guys be willing to trade Joe Johnson for Rashad Lewis’ expiring contract? For instance if it was a deal of Joe, Marvin and Al for Lewis, Crawford and Nene, would you be willing to sacrifice this one season as a throw in? I’m not sure I would do it. But its an interesting deal that would leave the Hawks with a lot of salary cap room after this season, with Lewis’ deal coming off of the books. For this one season, the Hawks would be left with a line up of **Teague – SG – Lewis – Josh – Nene**. You will be left with the possibility of letting Lewis’ deal expire or trading his contract for a deeper bench and another wing player. Either way Nene and Josh makes the best front court tandem in the east. And you’re opening yourself up to the possibility of signing a big free agent next season.

The potential trade:

Washington Gets:
Joe Johnson
Al Horford
Marvin Williams

Atlanta Gets:
Nene
Rashad Lewis
Jordan Crawford

Let me know what you think.

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Stephen Jackson can play good D when he is engaged. Or he can not show up. But at his best, he’s an average defender.

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If LA fires Mike Brown – I say get him.

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How about DWade yelling at Spoelestra? Things are not looking good in Heat land.

But I expect the Heat to come out and make a big run in game 4. Does George hold Wade to 5 points again?

I doubt it.

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If Josh has to walk, I still say that Josh and #23, and maybe some 2nd picks, for Ariza, Jack and the #10 pick may balance our roster, and be good for both clubs. Especially if we get a legit C like Tyler Zeller.

C – ZaZa/Zeller
PF – Al/Ivan
SF – Marvin/Ariza
SG – JJ
PG – Teague/Jack

I like the idea of 10 deep – and 48 minute ball. How do you maintain quality at each position for 48 minutes is the question good teams are now asking.

A rested above average player can many times compete with a tired superstar. Example 1 – See the Heat series

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Raja Bell is out in Utah – Big fight with Ty Corbin. So Josh for Favors and Bell may work also. Or Josh and Marvin for Devin Harris, Favors, and Bell – works on trade machine.

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On amnestying – the only way we amnesty anybody is if we trade a big contract for a pick, and have loads of cash left over. Then you may amnesty Marvin hoping somebody pays him 3 mill, so your only out 9+ mill the next 2 years.

I still can’t see the Hawks doing that even.

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Amnesty JJ? Nah – somebody gives him 12 mill per year for 4 years, the Hawks are still on the hook for about 40 mill over the next 4 years. I just don’t see the Hawks doing it.

And what if JJ’s contract becomes a race to the bottom like Billups? And he gets 2 mill per year? Or even 5? Now the Hawks are on the hook for 70 mill. or so. Not going to happen.

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AJ – That is true – and it is very difficult to find a wing better than JRich – or at least what JRich was for about 10 years. He fell off a cliff this season, even before Dwight went down.

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ok rod, numbers for you and others to digest. blog monster ate it up last night, i’ll protect it against losses today.

your premise is jamal would make a difference in wins against boston. i dont. i also dont think he was ever considered a player for this team because of salary issues, never, unless he wanted to play at vet minimum. could we have used him as another piece? yes, possibly just not as the absolute difference against the celts. i like jamal and have nothing against him and referred to him as flip on roids which on of the radio guys picked up on and called him, uh without my permission, heh heh

anyway you guys are talking santa claus and make believe. looking back there is nothing except one anomaly year ‘09, to suggest he was a difference ever against the celts. overall he was avg 13,.5 a game against them in his career in 30 minutes of play. nothing sterling there and his fg% were ok at 42 and 36.5.

the kicker to your celt killer theory and his helping us win against the c’s is his own personal win loss record which is 14-22. rod, 4 of those wins came in 09 and 4 came in the years 02 and 03 where he got 2 wins against them against 2 losses. without those years he is 6 – 18. there is nothing to suggest jamal is a giant killer or a celt killer and whatever he brought to the game was negated. one huge outlier ‘09 helped his numbers but that is it in his career. a lot but that was a year i thought against many others that we were actually better than the celts, not because of jamal, and they lived up to it because that was also the year kg went down with a near career ending knee injury to help out our cause.

the data does nothing to support your belief or others in santa claus, uh, i mean jamal helping us to win the series against the celts rod, just doesnt. sorry, and i liked jamal …. a lot.

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Northcyde, I am going to agree to disagree about the top teams would never do a deal like that. In fact, majority of the top teams excluding SAS, were made by trades like that. For instance, the big three never happens in Boston, if the Celtics never jettisoned bad contracts, they never end up with the salary cap to add pieces. You’re right maybe the Hawks should ask for a draft pick also. Either way, right now the Hawks are a first round playoff team. With the changes I suggested, even next season the Hawks are a first round team. So you’re not taking a drop off in results. And you’re adding flexibility to even be able to have a great bench in the future. With Joe here you’ll never be able to have a deep bench, with a top level center and a vocal leader (because that isn’t Joe). You say the Hawks haven’t been good at signing free agents. That’s because the Hawks haven’t ever been a playoff team while courting those top level free agents. Before they were offering to come join Jason Terry and Shareef. Now you’re offering a top level talent to come and lead this first round team to a title.

AJ, Hakeem didn’t have a top level wing player in his first title. Karl Malone, never had that either. I do believe Dwight would not win without a floor leader in the PG, though.

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By the way, I will go on the record of saying, though I don’t like Teague as a point guard (more of a scoring guard), I like Teague’s game MORE than John Wall’s game. Wall’s game is already less than K. Irving’s game.

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I see the Knicks overpaying for Jamal, especially if they return with Woody.

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SteveW, first off…I the numbers may not match…but I would do the Josh trade for Favor and either Bell or Harris today…I think Favors is a special kid…he’s also from the ATL…so that’s even better. However, despite those numbers you presented on JJ and Marvin…I would still amnesty either JJ or Marvin, that’s of course if a trade can’t be worked out. You can’t have two enigmas on your team sucking up all the cash…AT THE VERY LEASE…you got to move one of them.

TOO LONG Hawks fans have had to endure the JJ and ASG saga…surely after up teen years…it’s time for a change, RIGHT!

Go back to sleep mike…I’m out folks.heh heh

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doc, Mike Minor has struggled lately. You know who the Braves should go get to join their starting rotation?

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LD could be the most tenured head coach in the division by July. I’m still not sure that SVG stays and Spoelstra is desited to be sacrificed if the Heat fail to make the Finals. I think Spoelstra (once he shakes off the stigma of appearing like a boy amongst men) may be one of those difference makers in the NBA. But that may take another 5 years, he’ll need at least 3 years before folk stop thinking of him as the guy who couldn’t win with a stacked deck (that in reality, isn’t all that stacked).

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Rod,

You cannot use regular season stats to predict how that player/team would do against them in the playoffs, especially against a team like Boston that is known for turning it up in the playoffs. Is Jamal better than Willie Green? Of course he is. I just don’t think he would have been the difference maker for us getting to the ECF.

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Rod from College Park

May 18th, 2012
10:32 am

“Amazing that we may have a San Antonio vs Boston NBA Finals. The #1 offensive rated team vs the #1 defensive rated team.”

The #1 rated defensive team this year was Chicago, and the #1 rated offensive team was Denver. Not sure what fake stats you are using. Probably some fantasy garbage.

**************************

No Rod. I don’t live in a world in which everything is considered to be truth, by simply looking at PPG averages. Because if I did that, the Denver Nuggets were the #1 offensive team and the Bulls were the #1 defensive team.

But there is a “fantasy metric” called Offensive and Defensive rating, which takes into account more than what a team scores or gives up.

Offensive Rating

1) San Antonio – 110.9
2) Oklahoma City – 109.8
3) Denver – 109.2

Defensive Rating

1) Boston – 98.2
2) Chicago – 98.3
3) Philadelphia – 99.2

But that’s the world YOU live in. Where guys who score a lot of points matter to you, no matter how efficient or inefficient they are.

In your world, Jamal Crawford’s 14 ppg on 38% shooting . . is more valuable to have than Manu Ginobli’s 13 ppg on 53% shooting, simply because Jamal averaged one more point per game.

You try to paint me as the “fantasy guy”, when your entire argument about having Jamal is about his scoring, despite how inefficient he is. You’re the real fantasy guy. Having that fantasy that a dude who is a career 41% FG shooter, is this much needed “offensive assassin”.

Let’s see how many “good” teams court that dude in the offseason. And let’s see who Jamal finally signs with. I say he ends up in Brooklyn.

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“Rod,

You cannot use regular season stats to predict how that player/team would do against them in the playoffs, especially against a team like Boston that is known for turning it up in the playoffs. Is Jamal better than Willie Green? Of course he is. I just don’t think he would have been the difference maker for us getting to the ECF.”

So then use playoff stats. They are available. That’s your opinion, you are entitled to it. My opinion is different. A scorer off our bench would have helped us get by Boston. After that, who knows. Even if he averaged 10 ppg off the bench as doc says he did in the playoffs, that’s still 10 points off the bench that we did not get this year. Plus the fact that he was the best free throw shooter in the league. Plus the fact that we lost 4 games by a combined margin of 17 points. You do the math. If any of you haters (O’Brien you are not in the hater category, they know who they are) can tell me one thing that you have debated with me on and been correct, maybe I will respect your opinion, but you can’t so I won’t. Knowledgable bloggers who have no liking for Jamal have agreed with me, that’s enough for me. Again we averaged 81ppg in the playoffs, while averaging 96ppg during the regular season. Offense was the issue. We played great defense against Boston the whole sereis except for one game.

The issue is not could Boston shut down Jamal by himself. The issue is with Jamal on the floor with Joe, and a much improved Josh, and Teague, would Boston be able to play a box in one on Joe Johnson like they did in the playoffs. I say no.

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“But there is a “fantasy metric” called Offensive and Defensive rating, which takes into account more than what a team scores or gives up.”

Just as I figured. Kind of like PER. FANTASY is not reality. Please remember that. LOL. Too easy.

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The Summer of Sameness has officially begun. The Hawks have picked up LD’s option, per Sekou Smith’s Twitter. He will be back next year.

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“The Summer of Sameness has officially begun. The Hawks have picked up LD’s option, per Sekou Smith’s Twitter. He will be back next year.”

Predictable.

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aj, seem to be blocked from iphone.

my thought has been medlin, you?

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anyone think it was going to be anything else? best win per dollar spent in the league for any coach is my guess.

now who for gm? probably pendergrast as mentioned by many.

trade josh, that could bethe only big splash this “summer of sameness redoux”.

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Also means that you have a head coach with a single year guaranteed on his contract. If we keep our 1st round pick, that guy better come out of the blocks fast or he may not get the “player development” on the court that excites many bloggers around here. Just an overall bad way to manage a franchise… make a coaching decision without having a GM signed AND having a head coach operate with a single guaranteed year. Dude gets to spend a season looking over his shoulder, especially if a new GM is brought on board. Given the way LD takes credit for good and throws players under the bus for bad… this season should come with many a fun quote.

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FIRE LD

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