Atlanta Hawks: Roster report
The season ends abruptly and fans immediately engage in the annual tradition of wishing their team had different players (if they wait that long). But before you start dreaming about the Hawks adding quality free agents, it’s best to take a sober (somber?) look at their payroll and circumstances.
This summer looks a lot like last summer for the Hawks: They have no cap space, lots of roster spots to fill and not much room under the luxury-tax line to do it.
The Hawks have approximately $61 million in guarantees committed to six players. The salary cap this season is about $58 million and the luxury tax threshold is about $70 million. Each of those figures could increase next season (they can’t decrease) but unless there’s a massive increase in BRI the Hawks won’t have any cap space and won’t gain much additional wiggle room under the tax threshold.
I don’t have to tell you the Hawks are unlikely to spend above the tax line again next season. They tried to avoid doing so this year but the run of injuries forced their hand. The Hawks sold a draft pick to help offset the tax bill. Their payroll is at least 75 percent of their revenues and they are skeptical the new CBA will provide much significant relief through revenue sharing.
Those circumstances don’t suggest a franchise looking to take another luxury-tax hit. Assuming the tax threshold remains at about the same level, that leaves the Hawks roughly $9 million to sign a minimum of seven players to get to 13 on the roster. The player they select with the No. 23 overall draft pick (assuming they keep it) will eat up another $1.2 million or so (assuming the prospect signs for 120 percent above scale, which is standard). That would leave the Hawks $7.8 million under the tax line to sign at least six players.
The mid-level exception for non-taxpayers will be $5 million again next season. If the Hawks use all of that on one player, they’d be left with about $2.8 million under the tax line to add at least six additional players. That’s obviously not feasible even before you consider that a player who signs for the full mid-level commands a multi-year contract, adding future payroll just when the Hawks have a chance to clear some cap space after next season.
So in regards to free agency the Hawks are looking at trying to again build a roster with minimum-salaried veterans and/or young players and probably needing a couple of those players to accept non-guaranteed deals. And this time the Hawks don’t have Kirk Hinrich under contract and so need even more of those kinds of free agents to fill key roles.
Hinrich’s $8 million comes off the books along with roughly $5.6 million in cap salaries from the seven minimum-salaried vets plus Ivan Johnson’s rookie salary*. But Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia and Jeff Teague all get raises.
*The Hawks can claim salary-matching rights for Ivan by extending him a one-year qualifying offer of about $960,00 by June 30.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
460 comments Add your comment
glw
May 17th, 2012
2:45 pm
Just Joe,
I noticed you been pushing that Cleveland deal for Marvin for a while now. Sure you have lots of scenarios, but please tell me why would a team trade for Marvin and give you and expiring deal for a guy that has done nothing and still has 2 yrs left and is owed 15M on his deal? Those teams that are desperate for a young small forward will simply sign one for cheap off someone else bench for maybe 2 or 3 million. Maybe Washington would do the Blatche deal if they are burned out with him. But Cleveland aint doing that deal man, unless you are offering them something. I dont even think marvin can be traded if you threw in a 1st round pick, lol
High-sider
May 17th, 2012
2:46 pm
@Grandad
“…My original statement:
Josh is not our best defender;
however, I`m not certain who is ?…” – Grandad
Josh Smith is clearly the Hawks’ best defender. [See my post @12:57pm dated May 17, 2012.] The discussion/debate/topic should be “Why wasn’t Josh Smith voted [in] as the 2011-2012 DPOY [Defensive Player of the Year]?” Was it “politics” or the “NBA” [Nothin' But Associates]?
Astro Joe
May 17th, 2012
2:48 pm
northcyde, I’m not a believer in the thunder (I think they are still not quite ready) but I am hoping for a Lakers beatdown for the reason you mentioned above. If the lakers lose to the Thunder, they will likely react by trying to improve their athleticism and we have the right assets to offer them for Gasol. When I look across the NBA and look at players who could potentialy pull a “Dirk” (top 10-15 player on the decline who can put a team on his shoulders for about 2-3 weeks), Gasol is the one that comes to mind first. But honestly, #5 in Boston may be doing that right now… he has been unbelievable so far.
northcyde
May 17th, 2012
2:51 pm
Hawks Observer pgs
May 17th, 2012
12:39 pm
There is no evidence that Josh Smith at SF leads to more jumpers.
In the offense the SF gets
- to create off the dribble (Josh goes and stands in corner ala Marvin)
- post up
- run the wing or to the rim when the PF and C rebound
The PF is more featured in the offense (high post) and gets Josh to take jumpers.
**************************************
Under Larry Drew, Josh Smith has taken 1,053 shots of 16+ feet in the past 2 seasons ( including playoffs ). That’s way too many for most SFs, let alone PFs.
Josh likes shooting the jumper more than he likes to post up. Josh PURPOSELY drifts out toward the 3 point line so he can receive the ball. He is not going to become this post up demon at SF, if he has 2 other guys playing PF and C.
Josh at SF = the same amount or more jumpers
LOL . . there is even LESS evidence that Josh will go to the post if matched up on a SF. He didn’t do it in the times Paul Pierce was playing the 4 and was matched up against Josh.
So if you play Josh at SF, you either have to have people at PF and C who are ready and willing to rebound his misses . . or he has to play Point Forward, and get everybody else great shots, while getting his offense in spurts.
drmaryb.(*_*).
May 17th, 2012
2:58 pm
Donna Summers (RIP) cancer
Rod from College Park
May 17th, 2012
3:01 pm
“( and remember . . the night that Marvin grabbed those 11 defensive rebounds, we were told by “other bloggers” that those rebounds were “hollow and meaningless” because the Celtics don’t go after offensive rebounds. If that’s true, this means that Josh’s defensive rebounds in this series were also “hollow and meaningless”, as well as the increased rebounding totals in Game 3 by JJ and T-Mac )”
The were hollow. Again if you look at the rebounding in the Boston series, everybodies numbers were inflated on the boards. There is a reason for that. They gave up defensive rebounding but prevented fast break points for the Hawks. Excellent coaching by Doc Rivers.
“- No Josh, No Al, No Zaza . . and the Hawks STILL should’ve won that game, if not for some baffling player rotations ( Drew not playing Hinrich for defense, instead opting for Pargo for offense . . . only playing Ivan 11 minutes, etc ), and T-Mac getting hurt in the 2nd quarter.’
But they did not win they lost, so your points are not valid.
rufus1
May 17th, 2012
3:07 pm
High-sider
The don’t have 1 perimeter defender as good as Avery Bradley….
See Jamal’s stats against the bulls for a true gauge.
(the Magic)
KevinM
May 17th, 2012
3:15 pm
Has any player on last year’s roster played in the ECF? Collins and Dampier maybe?
Rod from College Park
May 17th, 2012
3:26 pm
rufus1,
“The don’t have 1 perimeter defender as good as Avery Bradley….
See Jamal’s stats against the bulls for a true gauge.
(the Magic)”
Yeah, the 6′2 Bradley sure does compare defensively to to 6-5 Bogans and the 6-8 Ronnie Brewer. Plus if you watched the Chicago series they started doubling Jamal Just like they did Joe. You have not said anything that makes any sense in the past 2 years on this blog. Give it up.
northcyde
May 17th, 2012
3:32 pm
Points are still valid. Everyone’s rebounding was not inflated. Only Josh’s. And that’s because he was the guy who was normally closest to the rim when a Celtic shot went up, or he was athletic enough to get the rebound.
So in Game 3, when a guy like Marvin was called upon to rebound the ball from Josh’s position, he did just that. And the reason why JJ and T-Mac rebounded at a high rate, was because Drew played both of them at the 4 at times ( the small-ball lineup )
Fact: The Hawks scored 20 fast break points and had 52 points in the paint in Game 3 Both were series highs. Now why do you think that was?
Was it because Teague FINALLY got to function as a PG that could push the ball down the floor and control the offense? Was it because a guy like Marvin grabbed a defensive rebound, and got it to a guard, instead of playing Magic Johnson by bringing it up himself? Was it because guys like T-Mac and JJ were able to create enough shots on their own to get in the paint?
Josh is not the end all, be all for this team. He brings great things to this team, when it can be controlled. But the things we can’t control, absolutely kill us at times. If you trade for, or bring in the right player to replace him, it could actually be a situation of addition by subtraction.
Dawg
May 17th, 2012
3:48 pm
The offense is much better with Teague running the offense. If we have 5 very good players in the lineup and Joe still goes ISO in crunch time, we still will lose. ISO Joe is easy to defend and that is the reason Joe always shoots such a low percentage when it counts (playoffs).
northcyde
May 17th, 2012
3:53 pm
rufus . . those 2 will not read what you said, and dismiss it . . just like Rod just did.
The playoffs are a physical game. It is not a free-for-all in which
Guys like Rod and High will swear up and down that the Lakers lost last night because they didn’t score enough points, not because the Thunder played great defense in the final 2 minutes of that game to fuel the amount of offense they needed to pull that game out.
Lakers were up 7 with 2 minutes to go. Play defense, and you turn the game into a FT shooting contest. But it was the Thunder who turned up their defense, forced turnovers, and got block shots to get them back in the game. Toss in a few contested fadeaway jumpers by Kobe, and the comeback was complete.
No matter how much they want to talk about guys like Jamal Crawford being “the difference”, the fact is that offense first guys who need a high volume of shots to justify them being on the floor, almost NEVER win.
It’s a reason why that dude has only played on 2 winning season teams in his 11 year career. It’s a reason why when he’s given the green light to shoot as much as he wants . . he fails much more often than he succeeds.
36% FG in the playoffs in 2010
39% FG in the playoffs in 2011
But he would’ve helped us?
Nah. He simply would’ve given us more of what we already have on this team . . . inconsistent offense and schizophrenic shooting.
He opts out of his deal. Now let’s see how many teams offer him more than the 5 million he turned down from the Blazers. See if a GOOD TEAM brings him in.
northcyde
May 17th, 2012
3:54 pm
It is not a free-for-all in which “schizophrenic offensive shooters” save the day by scoring 30 points in a game.
ryan
May 17th, 2012
3:54 pm
So who do we go after since we are not in the Howard sweepstakes i know we need a big man don’t trust ASG and Sund to do the right thing just have cross our fingers and hope some one like Fab Mello will be available .
Ernest
May 17th, 2012
3:57 pm
Wouldn’t it be interesting if Josh was traded for our first round pick back in 2001? If we could make the dollars work out, that could be an ‘win-win’ trade for both clubs. Perhaps Kobe could be the influence to help Josh realize his full potential (maybe an more athletic Lamar Odom) and Pau Gasol could be the scoring center we’ve lacked for years. Interior defense might suffer some but we would offset that offensively.
Rufus1
May 17th, 2012
3:59 pm
Rod,
I know The the Celtics are the best defensive team in the league and Bradley is a FEROCIOUS PERIMETER defender.
I know that Jamal SUUUUUCKED against the best defensive team we faced last year.(Bulls)
I know that Jamal played 30+ minutes a game last year and we had a worse winning%
I know you seem to mention that Magic series whenever you talk about Jamal, but for get the Bulls series.
I know the team Jamal was on THIS YEAR is worse than it was last year… AND OUR TEAM WAS BETTER.
I know Jamal is a worse “BALL STOPPER than Joe.
I know our DEFENSE is better without Jamal.
I know the 1st time that GREAT SCORER went to the playoffs was in ATL.
I know that the game is played on offense and DEFENSE.(Jamal should have been a wide reciever in the NFL)
I know that Jamal is the WORST DEFENDER I HAVE EVER SEEN IN ALL OF MY LIFE and you don’t think that matters.
I know your “PUFF the Magic Dragon” arguments about Jamal don’t hold water, because we had him and he wasn’t the difference in the Bulls series….HE SUUUUUUUUUCKED on OFFENSE and DEFENSE.
KevinM
May 17th, 2012
4:01 pm
This is how we get out of the Marvin salary dump……..I am following the Lamar Odom/Laker to Dallas model:
Trade exceptions are difficult to explain, but the Lakers can obtain a player from another team by trading only a draft pick if the player makes less than $9 million. Teams have exactly one year to use a traded-player exception.
And say that a Portland does that deal, and gives us a #2 and a TPE, couldn’t Portland enforce a rule where Marvin redoes his last 2 years of that deal?
With this scenario, you gotta be creative and keep Sund’s 2nd place Exec of the Year slot look legit.
Yes, you’re right, Sund is anything but creative.
Astro Joe
May 17th, 2012
4:05 pm
northcyde is en fuego.
rufus1
May 17th, 2012
4:22 pm
Northcyde
Facts are unimportant when comes to certain players, for certain ppl.
KevinM
May 17th, 2012
4:27 pm
“Ernest
May 17th, 2012
3:57 pm
Wouldn’t it be interesting if Josh was traded for our first round pick back in 2001? If we could make the dollars work out, that could be an ‘win-win’ trade for both clubs. Perhaps Kobe could be the influence to help Josh realize his full potential (maybe an more athletic Lamar Odom) and Pau Gasol could be the scoring center we’ve lacked for years. Interior defense might suffer some but we would offset that offensively”
Okay, so go look at Pau’s salary numbers and without making an offer, ask the ASG first if they would pay ‘another’ guy 19M the next 2 years.
There is no way, not even if we traded Joe and Josh that Pau Gasol would be coming to Atlanta.
The only hope we have is for the ASG to start dumping salary, a la Billy Knight, and start working on draft picks to get us back up and running. Then they can keep LD and see if he can win 40 games without his all-vet, oldest and 2nd most playoff experienced team in the league.
Man in Black
May 17th, 2012
4:37 pm
Offer Smith & Williams for Howard – Orlando has run out of other offers and that would be the best they can get.
Ernest
May 17th, 2012
4:39 pm
KevinM,
Fair analysis but I don’t want to be the Charlotte Bobcats for the next 3-5 years. We have enough pieces to make a trade without going back to ground zero. In my opinion, Josh having one year left of his contract and having some appeal throughout the league is our best asset to trade. Who we trade him for could be up to much debate and discussion over the summer.
Just Joe
May 17th, 2012
4:40 pm
glw…Cleveland takes on Marvin’s 2yr $15.5M contract because of a few reasons…his ability to knock down 3’s at a 40% clip while standing 6′9″ with a 7′+ wingspan, which allowed him to rebound this year at a per minute rate on par with the top small forwards in the league. If they draft Beal and pair him with Irving in the backcourt, then all they need Marvin to do is stand in the corner on offense and rebound & defend on the other end.
Cleveland will believe that they have better coaching & a better scheme than Atlanta. Its that arrogance that will lead them to trade for Marvin, and in the end, be disappointed with their acquisition. But lets face it, Walton is never going to play for Cleveland, so its not like they’re giving up anything.
K. Irving, B. Beal, M. Williams, T. Thompson, A. Verejao….with the Lakers’ 1st rd pick plus an early 2nd rd pick.
Clarification
May 17th, 2012
4:41 pm
“When it comes to Jamal Crawford, some of these bloggers refuse to accept reality.”
This should have been a Dept. of Unintended Irony post.
Hawks in the playoffs with Jamal Crawford playing starters minutes off the bench:
09-10: vs. MIL we gave up an average of 90.0 points (and won)
vs. ORL we gave up an average of 107.3 points (lost historically)
10-11: vs. ORL we gave up an average of 88.7 points (and won)
vs. CHI we gave up an average of 92.7 points (lost)
In 23 playoff games with Jamal, we gave up an average of 93.3 points.
11-12: Without Jamal we gave up an average of 86.8 point.
That’s a 6.5 pt. difference PER GAME of points given up with Jamal playing major minutes. Dude cannot play defense. Period. Funny how some bloggers refuse to accept reality.
High-sider
May 17th, 2012
4:56 pm
@Rufus1
I know the Atlanta Hawks with Jamal Crawford won four postseason games in 2010 and advanced to the EC Semifinals.
I know the Atlanta Hawks with Jamal Crawford won six postseason games in 2011 and advanced to the EC Semifinals.
I know the Atlanta Hawks WITHOUT Jamal Crawford won two postseason games in 2012 and FAILED to advance to the EC Semifinals.
I know that the Atlanta Hawks in 2010-2011 with Jamal Crawford won 53 games. The Hawks had not won 50+ games since, I believe, the 1997-1998 season.
I know that the Atlanta Hawks in the 2011 postseason with Jamal Crawford won its first EC Semifinals game since, I believe, 1997. Jamal Crawford scored 22 points in that EC Semifinals [victory] game.
I know the Atlanta Hawks with Jamal Crawford won two consecutive elimination games vs. the Bucks in 2010 to advance to the EC Semifinals. Jamal Crawford scored 24 points and 22 points, respectively, in Game(s) 6 and 7 off the bench which also led the Hawks in scoring. Game 6 vs. the Bucks was a “road” elimination game and Game 7 vs. the Bucks was a “home” elimination/close-out game for the Hawks.
I know Jamal Crawford is/was the only Hawks’ player in franchise history to win the SMOY [Sixth Man of the Year] Award.
I know Jamal Crawford scored 20+ points off the bench in 49-50 games in two Hawks’ regular seasons.
I know Jamal Crawford scored 23+ points off the bench in four consecutive postseason games vs. the Magic in 2011.
I know Jamal Crawford with the Hawks averaged 20+ppg vs. Magic as a reserve in the 2011 postseason.
I know Jamal Crawford with the Hawks averaged 20+ppg vs. the Celtics in the 2010 regular season and 15.0ppg vs. the Celtics in the 2011 regular season and became known as the Hawks’ [new] “Boston Strangler.”
I know Jamal Crawford with the Blazers in 2011-2012 led the NBA in FT% at 0.927 or 92.7%. Correct me, if I’m wrong, but didn’t Al Horford miss the first of two free throws that could have tied the game late in the 4th quarter in Game 6 vs. the Celtics this 2012 postseason. Can you say “poetic justice”?
I know Jamal Crawford has the most 4-point plays in NBA history with 36 [34 in the regular season and two [2] in the postseason]. Jamal Crawford set that [4-pt. play] record while he was playing for the Hawks.
I know Jamal Crawford scored 50+ points for three [separate] NBA franchises – CHI, NYK and GSW.
I know Jamal Crawford is a respected scorer by NBA experts, analysts and pundits.
I know Jamal Crawford is a “true” NBA baller.
Rod from College Park
May 17th, 2012
5:02 pm
Dufus1,
“I know The the Celtics are the best defensive team in the league and Bradley is a FEROCIOUS PERIMETER defender.”
Actually the Bulls were the best defensive team in the league, and Bradley has no chance defending much bigger shooting guards. He is good a pressuring smaller point guards like Teague. So you are wrong on both accounts.
“I know that Jamal SUUUUUCKED against the best defensive team we faced last year.(Bulls)”
So did Joe, Horford, Josh, Al and Marvin. What’s your point.
“I know that Jamal played 30+ minutes a game last year and we had a worse winning%”
I know that we got to game 6 of the SECOND ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS last year, and we got to game 6 of the FIRST ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS this year. 2nd round is >1rst round.
“I know you seem to mention that Magic series whenever you talk about Jamal, but for get the Bulls series.”
See my above answer. We advanced to the SECOND ROUND.
“I know Jamal is a worse “BALL STOPPER than Joe.”
They are both ball stoppers. Jamal gets to the line better, does not avoid contact, and makes a decision with the ball instead of dribbling around aimlessly for 20 seconds and then passing to Josh.
“I know our DEFENSE is better without Jamal.”
I know we got to the SECOND ROUND with him, and lost in the FIRST ROUND without him. Do you want better defense or to advance farther in the playoffs?
“I know that Jamal is the WORST DEFENDER I HAVE EVER SEEN IN ALL OF MY LIFE and you don’t think that matters.”
You obvoiusly don’t watch the Hawks games then. Does the name Mike Bibby ring a bell.
“I know your “PUFF the Magic Dragon” arguments about Jamal don’t hold water, because we had him and he wasn’t the difference in the Bulls series….HE SUUUUUUUUUCKED on OFFENSE and DEFENSE.”
I seem to recall D. Rose, and Deng killing us. Majority of the time Jamal was matched up on the backup point guard or the two guard. He was guarded primarily by Bogans and Brewer. The guys who guarded Rose for the majority of that series were Teague and Joe. Offensively in that series he was just as good as our 2 time all-star center while playing less minutes. So why not bash Horford. He was not stellar on defense against the bulls either.
Rod from College Park
May 17th, 2012
5:05 pm
“northcyde is en fuego.”
That’s usually what two dudes that like each other say. My man is hot. SMH
Rod from College Park
May 17th, 2012
5:13 pm
Re-Clarification,
2nd Round of the playoffs game 6 is > 1rst round of the playoffs game 6
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
May 17th, 2012
5:14 pm
We need JaVale McGee!!!!!!!!!
Amnesty Marvin or trade him for a second round pick or something. The Hawks would be stupid to give him a pay raise for just running up and down the court.
High-sider
May 17th, 2012
5:18 pm
@Clarification
“…Hawks in the playoffs with Jamal Crawford playing starters minutes off the bench:
09-10: vs. MIL we gave up an average of 90.0 points (and won)
vs. ORL we gave up an average of 107.3 points (lost historically)
10-11: vs. ORL we gave up an average of 88.7 points (and won)
vs. CHI we gave up an average of 92.7 points (lost)
In 23 playoff games with Jamal, we gave up an average of 93.3 points.
11-12: Without Jamal we gave up an average of 86.8 point…” – Clarification
In 200-2011, with Jamal Crawford, the Hawks advance to the second round [or EC Semifinals] of the playoffs. In 2011-2012, without Jamal, the Hawks fail to advance past the first round of the playoffs. With the Jamal Crawford, the Hawks advance to the second round of the playoffs two consecutive years and without Jamal Crawford the Hawks fail to advance to the second round. Thanks for proving my point, Clarification.
Clarification, first, you used +/- statistics to discount and discredit Jamal Crawford and now you’re using ppg averages to discount and discredit Jamal Crawford’s contributions and value as a Hawks’ player when you, Clarification, should be [first] using/observing wins and losses in particular postseason wins and losses.
Clarification, you “truly” need clarification.
Clarification, you might want to consider changing your name/handle to “Nullification” because everything you state to discount or discredit Jamal Crawford and his postseason performance is nullified by the Hawks’ first round exit this [2012] postseason.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
May 17th, 2012
5:21 pm
PG-Teague
SG-Joe
SF-Josh
PF-Horford
C-Mcgee
Bench – Zaza, Willie Green, Tmac, Big Ivan, Fab Melo, Pargo, second round pick, Free agent.
MaxxHawk
May 17th, 2012
5:22 pm
Bummer
Clarification
May 17th, 2012
5:22 pm
RFCP,
The results and point totals are exactly what they are. We were better on defense in the playoffs this year than the last two. IMO, Jamal’s absence was a definite factor.
High-sider
May 17th, 2012
5:27 pm
Correction: From *2009-2011, with Jamal Crawford, the Hawks advanced* to the second round [or EC Semifinals] of the playoffs. In 2011-2012, without Jamal Crawford, the Hawks failed* to advance past the first round of the playoffs. With *Jamal Crawford, the Hawks advanced* to the second round of the playoffs two consecutive years and, without Jamal Crawford, the Hawks failed* to advance to the second round. Thanks for proving my point, Clarification.
glw
May 17th, 2012
5:37 pm
Just Joe,
wow, you really playing marvin up. sounds like his scouting report coming out of college. Yeah the Hawks fell for that when he came out, and passed on Paul and Williams. You must not have read the most updated scouting report on him: athletic and plays hard, but inconsistent doesnt always show up, no post up ability though being bigger than most 3’s, not very balanced, at best a 10ppg on an average team. So again, why would Cleveland trade Luke Walton’s expiring contract for Marvin’s? If they need a small forward, am sure there are plenty of other guys out there for 2 million a year. Marvin is virtually untradeable unless he is package with other pieces, or you must be willing ot take back a worse contract than Marvin’s. Luke Waltons contract is not worse.
glw
May 17th, 2012
5:41 pm
The only way Cleveland does that is if you do
Luke Walton for Marvin and 1st round draft pick.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
May 17th, 2012
5:43 pm
WE NEED A COACH THAT WILL GIVE PLAYING TIME BASED ON RESULTS NOT HOW HIGH THEY WAS DRAFTED.
FIRE LD
Clarification
May 17th, 2012
5:44 pm
High-Sider,
A team can be better on defense than a previous year (and have the numbers to prove it) and not win a playoff series. Why in the world would the result of the series necessarily be an indicator of improved defense? That doesn’t follow. So, I’m not sure which point you think that proved, but what I was speaking of, was whether or not the Hawks defensive numbers were better without Jamal. I don’t believe I brought up anything about who won.
I’ve shown conclusively that they WERE better without JC1, by the numbers. Sorry if that fact offends you. But, unlike you, I’m not “out to prove something”, or “trying to win an argument”. Just providing the actual numbers needed to assess defensive impact (or lack thereof).
The numbers show what they show. If you choose to disbelieve what is shown, it’s your right to do so.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
May 17th, 2012
5:45 pm
Just like glw said Marvin has no trade value. We need to amnesty him before the pay raise kicks in.
hdg39607
May 17th, 2012
5:45 pm
The Hawks need to admit that they made a mistake in drafting Marvin Williams over Chris Paul. Marvin is ass and we need to do whatever is necesarry to get rid of him and some of his future salary and find someone to take his place.
JM
May 17th, 2012
5:45 pm
I used to want J. McGee before Washington traded him but unless we get a new coach I’m not sure he helps. If people think Josh makes bad decision, McGee would be much worse. A strong coach is needed, until then roster moves won’t make much a difference.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
May 17th, 2012
5:46 pm
I would rather have Mario West than Marvin.
hdg39607
May 17th, 2012
5:56 pm
Acquiring a good center would be nice… Al could shift to PF and Josh to SF. Zaza is alright but we need better. Although this might be a stretch, Spencer Hawes is set to be an UFA.
prison mike
May 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
The reason Cleveland likes Duck is because their GM, Chris Grant was an assistant to BK here. He still feels some affinity for him.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
May 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
Hawks’ Summer 2012:
June 22: Rick Sund accepts job as GM of Portland Trailblazers. David Pendergraft is named the Atlanta Hawks GM.
Michael Gearon Jr: “We want to thank Rick Sund for his contributions to the Atlanta Hawks franchise. He is a very savvy and professional executive who really helped this team mature and grow through the years. We wish him nothing but the best”
June 24: Hawks pick up Larry Drew’s option.
July 3: A list of teams interested in JaVale McGee is reported, with the Hawks among them. The Hawks do not end up signing JaVale McGee.
July 5: A list of teams interested in Jason Terry is reported, including the Hawks. The Hawks ideally want Terry in a 6th Man role, but he shuns the Hawks, given how his prior stint with the franchise occurred.
July 6: Hawks sign Kirk Hinrich to $12 million/3 year contract.
David Pendergraft: “Kirk Hinrich has been an integral part of this franchise since we traded for him in February 2011. He has taken Jeff Teague under his wing and shown him the ropes of the game”
July 12: Joe Johnson on whether moves need to be made: “Nah man. What we got here is good. We just need to sign a few vets. We really kept our resolve this year, given all the injuries we had to endure.
July 14: Marvin Williams on his summer:
“Man I’ve just been at Chapel Hill. I just got a few semesters left until I get this African Studies Degree.
**MC: What aspects of your game are you working on this summer?
-Marvin: Just perimeter shooting in general. I need to become more reliable as a 3 point shooter also. I’m still working out with Sean May, and I even saw Raymond Felton drop by a few days ago
July 18: Michael Gearon Jr. interview with Michael Cunningham
**MC: What do you think about Joe’s performance on his contract so far?
-Gearon: I think he is still an elite shooting guard. Most people don’t know this, but Joe has had knee issues the last few years, and the fact he has insisted on playing shows he is a true warrior. That’s the funny thing about the NBA. Going into summer 2010, we had about 8 million in cap space if we let Joe go. So who do we go sign and still maintain our status as the 3 seed in the East if Joe leaves? Do we sign Bubba Jones off the street [Gearon laughs while MC looks at him curiously]?
**MC: What do you have to say to those who claim the team has taken a step back from last year?
-Gearon: That’s the funny thing about the NBA. You can overachieve in the regular season given what you have, and in the Playoffs, it’s a whole different animal. You look at the Dallas Mavericks. They won the Championship last year. They lost Tyson Chandler. They added the NBA’s 6th Man from last year. This year, they got swept by the Oklahoma City Thunder. We lost in 6 games to a team that has been elite for 5 years. We were the most injured Playoff team in the league this year. You cannot judge this team based off one Playoff series. We had a two-time All-Star who missed almost the entire regular season.
**MC: A lot of fans have the feeling that it’s the same drill every season and the ownership isn’t dedicated to winning – that this core has hit its ceiling
-Gearon: [Laughs]. Michael, you look at the Detroit Pistons, the San Antonio Spurs, and the Boston Celtics. Those main cores have been together for years. Have they been to the Finals every single year that their core has been together? An analogy I like to use is that you have to crawl before you walk. Josh and Al are just now entering their prime ages, and Joe is a 6x NBA All Star. You look at our Playoffs series against Boston. Going against 4 future Hall of Famers and a Hall of Fame coach, we played tremendous defense. We are always looking to build on what we did well and address what didn’t. Like, if I go to the same restaurant, let’s say ZaZa’s, and the service is lousy each time (God Bless ZaZa [chuckles]!), do I just quietly take the bad service every time I go? Let’s say the restaurant allows the patrons to fill out anonymous surveys. The key, Michael, is you always have to evaluate the situation and try to improve what’s good and address what’s bad. [MC thinks: "What the hell does that story have to do with anything?]
-Gearon: I know a lot of fans are upset about not winning a Championship this year, but so are 28 other teams. You look at Sacramento and Golden State. Those teams were last relevant when I HAD hair [chuckles]!
**MC: It’s been widely reported Josh Smith wants out. How do you plan on dealing with the situation?
-Gearon: I’ve known Josh and his family for so many years and it’s been incredible watching him grow up from a skinny high school kid all the way to a star in the NBA. He is the engine that keeps this team moving, especially with the injuries to several key guys this year. You look at LeBron James and you look at Josh Smith, and these are two very special players……[**notice how the question isn't actually addressed]
July 24: Larry Drew interview with Michael Cunningham
**MC: What changes do you hope to bring to this roster in terms of coaching this season?
-LD: We need to approach this season with a certain physicality. I noticed at times these last two seasons we did not display a certain sense of urgency, and if you do that in the NBA, it will be a long season.
**MC: Many people say that Josh Smith’s jumpshooting has been out of control, moreso than it was when Woodson was here. How do you plan to address this for the coming season?
-LD: ………um, well Josh has to recognize his role in the offense. He is so important to this team.
**MC: Do you have anything to say about Marvin or Horford? Marvin, one can say, had a dreadful first 4 games in the Boston series, and Joe really looked uninspiring at time in the regular season and playoffs.
-LD: No. Those guys are not allowed to be called out. It is clear that Teague and Josh Smith are the scapegoats for every problem this team has.
August 2: Hawks offer Ivan Johnson 1 year contract for the smallest possible amount. Ivan, seeing Pendergraft at the Hawks gym one morning, curses him out and has to be restrained by Anthony Johnson.
August 5: Hawks sign veteran guard Mike James to 1-year veteran minimum contract
August 11: Hawks sign veteran forward Darius Miles to 1-year veteran minimum contract
October 14: Hawks sign Matt Harpring as player development coach
High-sider
May 17th, 2012
6:00 pm
@Clarification
“…A team can be better on defense than a previous year (and have the numbers to prove it) and not win a playoff series. Why in the world would the result of the series necessarily be an indicator of improved defense? That doesn’t follow. So, I’m not sure which point you think that proved, but what I was speaking of, was whether or not the Hawks defensive numbers were better without Jamal. I don’t believe I brought up anything about who won.
I’ve shown conclusively that they WERE better without JC1, by the numbers. Sorry if that fact offends you. But, unlike you, I’m not “out to prove something”, or “trying to win an argument”. Just providing the actual numbers needed to assess defensive impact (or lack thereof)…” – Clarification
Clarification,
Your argument/point/case/premise is basically the following:
the Hawks [team] w/o Jamal Crawford is better defensively but may not better overall vs. the Hawks [team] w/ Jamal Crawford is better overall.
I’ll take “the Hawks [team] w/ Jamal Crawford is better overall” argument/side. That’s what executives and “bottom line” thinkers would take – the option that would most improve the organization.
doc
May 17th, 2012
6:20 pm
jamal has become a greater figment of the imagination than santa claus.
all he needed to do to stay was to play for vet minimum.
i am as sure that doc would have shut jamal dwn just as effectively as thibs did. at least i am just as sure of this as anyone that suggests that jamal couod have been the gate to the ecf. got it? i too can play the santa claus game and make stuff up. neither santa claus or any statement of what difference jamal might have made have any basis in reality. i prefer reality. my reality is there were no funds for jamal.
prison mike
May 17th, 2012
6:28 pm
“At times, some Hawks players said they wished Drew would be more forceful with game officials when they felt like the whistles weren’t going their way.”
Yeah Drew is getting that rep as a coach that can get pushed over. You have to send a message not only to the refs but your players showing you have their back. Woodson also never got techs simply because he knew his assistants were better in game coaches than him, imo.
drmaryb.(*_*).
May 17th, 2012
6:30 pm
Funny Stuff!
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
May 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
__________
I really enjoyed that … Nice to see we haven’t lost our sense of humor. Hahahaha
steven a smith
May 17th, 2012
6:38 pm
After drafting (1) Fab Melo or (1a) Festus Ezelli
Round 2 pick 52 (2) Robert Sacre or Renardo Sydney/Reggie johnson
Lets make it happen Hawks…