Atlanta Hawks: Video: Hawks collapse at Boston
I joined The Boston Globe’s Bob Ryan to review the Hawks’ 101-79 defeat to the Celtics in Game 4.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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251 comments Add your comment
BillyBadAss
May 7th, 2012
9:06 pm
At least Woodson made it to the second round. His hired servant you guys begged for to replace him can even win 2 fcking games… i dont count last year because that was still woody’s team. This one is more Drews team because he has a bench, something Woodson never had…
all yall said it was Bibby’s fault why Al refuse to play defense. Teague was suppose to fix that…. Al still aint playing no defense. and got abused yesterday.
BillyBadAss
May 7th, 2012
9:07 pm
*cant win 2 fcking games.
Ray
May 7th, 2012
9:11 pm
@ Northcyde
Not to be mean dude you say get that bandwagon crap out of here, but tell me this when are the hawks going to get real about actually fielding a championship team?
Not that lame B.S “We like our core.”
I’m just telling the truth if you don’t want to be disappointed you’re better off supporting another team that’s not the Bobcats or Wizards lol.
Clarification
May 7th, 2012
9:15 pm
Last night Horford received the ball on the left block. Instead of hesitating (as he has done too often in the past), he immediately drove across the lane for a baby hook over the taller shot-blocking Stiemsma. How is that not creating his own shot? Case closed.
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
9:19 pm
Non Partial
May 7th, 2012
8:17 pm
You dont carry the team the way josh did with or with out JJ with out being able to create your own shot. Josh is not only the teams MVP this year but is tie for the team lead in PPG with JJ. You dont do that unless you can create your own shot.
No hateraid here.
Facts are facts.
Your killing me but hey i’m at work and can use the comedy to pass the time here: Josh has made tremendous strides this season and should have been an All-Star, he still makes mistakes like thinking that he’s a Point-Foward running the break instead of finding a better ball handler, he should be no further than the “elbow” when shooting jumpers, but I see the talent and upside that he still has….But getting up a shot and creating your own shot is big difference, anyone can jack up a shot, but he cannot create his own shot and thats not a major knock….Look at film of TMac back in the day, now thats creating your own shot. He too at times is a ball stopper and mainly only passes to Joe…..Don’t get me wrong, love SMOOVE but he just like Al still have to develop their game…Only person that I gets on my nerves on this team is Marvin, Al had 12pts 5rbs, what has Marvin brought in his entire career??
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
9:23 pm
Clarification
May 7th, 2012
9:15 pm
Last night Horford received the ball on the left block. Instead of hesitating (as he has done too often in the past), he immediately drove across the lane for a baby hook over the taller shot-blocking Stiemsma. How is that not creating his own shot? Case closed.
Stiemsma?? Really??
Horford fan here but beating a backup scrub ain’t much to holla at..Al as a 3rd or 4th option that he has been on this team will get better and has upside
BillyBadAss
May 7th, 2012
9:25 pm
I agree with you guys. Al is not as talented as Josh. Josh is a bad dude and completely takes over games. Al could never do that. This team is rightfully built around Josh. Al will forever be a 10-14 pt guy.
Josh can shoot drive, post, crossover take you with his left hand right hand shoot the runner… dude can take you many many ways. and carried the offense this year.
Al cant do that. All Al can do is beg for a pick to get guys off him or hope for a pick and roll.
Hey did not Amare Call Al out and Punked him?
Send in the clowns....
May 7th, 2012
9:27 pm
“Al did a baby hook over the taller shot-blocking Stiemsma. How is that not creating his own shot? Case closed.”
Dont bother theyre here….
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
9:27 pm
Why are we blaming Al for for all the Hawks problems??
Ray
May 7th, 2012
9:28 pm
Now you got B***h made Johnson asking for more touches you kidding right?
I wish this dude would go back and look at that stat sheet from this entire season, and realize for as much as we pay him he hasn’t done a darn thing all season except against the sorry teams. Josh actually took over games and a good bit he kept us in, and these were games that mattered.
Ray
May 7th, 2012
9:30 pm
As much as people wale on Carmelo I’d bet they are more thankful for him than Joke or excuse me Choke Johnson.
blackprix
May 7th, 2012
9:37 pm
There is NO WAY in this world or any other for that matter that Joe Johnson is worth the contract he got! Folks this is not a ‘Hall of Fame’ type player. Only players with ‘Hall of Fame’ careers get the kind of money he got.
As long as ownership continues to make these kinds of mistakes, and it’s not just with players, Hawks will go no where anytime soon.
The best Hawks basketball was in the 70’s and early 80’s with Hubie Brown and Mike Fratello coaching. This franchise has not come close to what those teams and those coaches did. Looks like it will be a long time before Atlanta sees that calibre basketball played here again.
Non Partial
May 7th, 2012
9:46 pm
As long as Al is in your front court you are never, ever , ever…. going to get out of the second round
Non Partial
May 7th, 2012
9:48 pm
Most of you guys was calling Drew coach of the year.. last year and early this year.
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
9:51 pm
Non Partial,
I guess it was all Horford’s fault that we were down 2-1 with homecourt advantage before Sunday?
BuddyC
May 7th, 2012
9:53 pm
NON PARTIAL……you are CLUELESS my friend……..CLUELESS!
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
9:55 pm
Very CLUELESS & Very Comical!!
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
9:59 pm
This blog NEVER has said Drew was coach of the year!!! LOL!
Big Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:03 pm
I like Josh but he cannot create his own shot, hell half the time he can barely dribble.
Yep….which is why he had both a higher scoring average and a higher shooting percentage for the regular season. Ah, but let’s not pay attention to facts….
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
10:05 pm
Give examples of him creating
Big Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:11 pm
But getting up a shot and creating your own shot is big difference, anyone can jack up a shot, but he cannot create his own shot and thats not a major knock
Agreed. And Joe has shown us how to do that in the playoffs so far this year, hasn’t he? Go ahead…show me how…on the stat line.
Look at film of TMac back in the day, now thats creating your own shot. He too at times is a ball stopper and mainly only passes to Joe
Yeah. Wish we had TMac from back in the day. Actually, I would have settled for Chris Paul at #3 overall in the 2005 draft….thanks again for that one, Billy Knight….
Don’t get me wrong, love SMOOVE but he just like Al still have to develop their game…Only person that I gets on my nerves on this team is Marvin, Al had 12pts 5rbs, what has Marvin brought in his entire career??
Totally agreed. Josh and Al have to work on their games. I thought Al was going to turn that corner some more before he got hurt.
Of course, Al does not have the pure talent that Josh has. Josh’s problem has been developing his talent at the right time, instead of doing it all HIS way. Al’s problem is he forgot who he was when he came into the League, the guy he was his first two years.
But the biggest issue continues to be this – the guy who once was clearly the best player on the team, can create his own offense, the mutiple all-star….isn’t even who he used to be, which was a very good player, worthy of all-star votes. Instead, he’s now paid like he’s a top 5 player. And he ain’t playing anywhere near that level. Nowhere close. He’s not leading this team, he’s not doing what he does best. He just ain’t getting it done.
And do we think he’ll be better next year? No. But he will be PAID even better. Joke’s on us…
Non Partial
May 7th, 2012
10:11 pm
“it was all Horford’s fault that we were down 2-1 with homecourt advantage before Sunday?- Luke Cage
I wont argue with you. Did you see what that ass ho le did with his summer….nothing then came to camp and tried to speed rush his self in shape. What a clown. Then he tried his best to rip his chest muscle from the bone just to get out of work…. Im like Dude, get your sorry ass up and play some freaking defense….
Yea, the dude is just nasty. I dont want him any where near the hawks
Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:11 pm
@ Non-Partial
I remember a few people shouting those words across the board, but it don’t matter as long as we got “The Core” it won’t matter same ish different year.
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
10:11 pm
I mean Ray Allen has scored many points in his career but can’t create his own shot. He can get his shot off but how often does he create it??
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
10:15 pm
Non Partial,
Man you should have your own comedy sitcom LMAO!!!
Big Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:16 pm
Luke ,
Give examples of him creating
That’s exactly my point. He doesn’t, like you said. Yet, he is clearly head and shoulders above the guy who is SUPPOSED to be able to. $125 mil (with increasingly higher pay as the contract goes on) for a guy who can’t play as well or be as efficient as 1) a guy who can’t create his own shot, 2) a pg who many said wasn’t even going to make it, and 3) a guy playing in his first game since missing most of the season.
I mean come on….how do you explain that?
Josh can’t create his own shot, Teague still can’t shoot….but both are outplaying mega millions Joe. You wanna explain that one?
Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:18 pm
I’m stilling wondering why a PG who basically just started this year is outplaying a guy who has been a 6 time all-star just like Big Ray is saying.
Big Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:20 pm
I mean Ray Allen has scored many points in his career but can’t create his own shot. He can get his shot off but how often does he create it??
What’s your point? Ray Allen was a sniper/scorer…one of the best. He didn’t need to “create” his own shot. There are different kinds of scorers. Some create their own shot one-on-one, others score the ball a different way. Lebron James, for all the hype and ability, still needs to get to the basket. If he can’t, his jumper simply does not fall much at all. Wade is the same way, though less so. He can hit jumpers with more frequency.
Derrick Rose used to need to get to the bucket all the time. Then he worked on his jumper and his 3 ball and the rest is history.
There are several great “shot creating” scorers. Shaq wasn’t one of them. Yet he was the most dominant center since guys like Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul Jabar. Want a shot creating guy at center? Try Hakeem Olajuwon.
Big Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:28 pm
Ray,
What should really make you wonder is why that pg is only just now starting. Dude had to give MVP Derrick Rose a run for his money for the sake of forcing his own coach to play him. And we all know that would not have happened if Hinrich hadn’t gotten hurt before that series.
Larry Drew is a colossal imbecile.
And you’re right about “the core.”
At this point, here’s what’s funny – as sorry as Marvin Williams is, there’s not much point in trading him. You won’t get sh!t for him. So keep him on your bench, where is arse belongs.
Josh has proven that despite “not being able to create his own shot”, he can blow teams up all day and be the PF we need him to be (finally…took 8 damn years).
So, ship Joe and Al out of here, get a starting-caliber SF who can score (preferably a guy who can hit the open shot…like Marvin should, but doesn’t do), a 2 guard who can defend and also hit outside shots, and a bonafide, big boned, down and dirty in the paint center. We don’t need an all-star center…fact is that we are not going to get one. You either draft those or pay for them via free agency.
Now I’d take Dwight’s diva a$$ in a heartbeat, but I don’t think he wants to be here (he don’t wanna be in Orlando either). So we’re stuck going with some rugged beastie that will do all the dirty work in the paint, let Josh go back to being our brilliant help defender.
Marvin = no trade value. Put on bench.
Joe = big awful contract. Get rid of him any way you can.
Al = great trade value. Get the most you can out of this. If you can’t get a beefy guy who actually wants to play center, then go cheaper and let some monstrous non-scoring ghoul split minutes with Zaza at center, and get a very good player at either SG or SF.
That’s how you blow up the core.
Big Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:30 pm
Non Partial,
Man you should have your own comedy sitcom LMAO!!!
It would be titled “Everybody Hates Al”….starring the asian guy who hates Al.
Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:32 pm
@ Big Ray
I agree don’t have to sell me on that lol.
Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:32 pm
I’m taking leave for tonight I’ll be back on tomorrow.
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
10:33 pm
I wasn’t excusing Joe my man, someone brought up to me that Josh creates his own shots and I disagreed, Joe is the luckiest man on the face of the planet because he NO-Shows in the playoffs and IS NOT worth his deal but when its all said and done will be the highest paid player in the league someday, ASG was stupid, bottom line.
Ray.
Teague is basically playing his 1st year because they wasted his 1st 2, love his upside and can see him being a very good if not top PG in the NBA
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
10:38 pm
Cmon fellas I have about 45 more minutes to go, need some entertainment up on this Blog
Think we can get Stephanie Ready next season and Amnesty Jerome??
Najeh Davenpoop
May 7th, 2012
10:39 pm
New blog up (and has been for some time)
Luke Cage
May 7th, 2012
10:39 pm
Guess Jazz Goin’ Fishin’
Big Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:46 pm
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/05/07/time-for-the-hawks-to-turn-the-page/?ls=iref:nbahpt1
Here’s the crazy part – if Josh truly wants out of the ATL, then he’s the guy you trade. Just not to Orlando while they still have Dwight. Or, you’ve just handed the southeast division away to TWO teams, not just one.
Big Ray
May 7th, 2012
10:47 pm
I wasn’t excusing Joe my man, someone brought up to me that Josh creates his own shots and I disagreed, Joe is the luckiest man on the face of the planet because he NO-Shows in the playoffs and IS NOT worth his deal but when its all said and done will be the highest paid player in the league someday, ASG was stupid, bottom line.
Agree, agree, agree….
atlhawks4lyfe
May 7th, 2012
10:48 pm
glw
May 7th, 2012
10:24 am
…….Josh, needs to stop trying to lead the break, give the ball to Teague and fill the wings. The offense has to keep moving, when Joe gets the ball, guys need to cut, and not stand around waiting for the pass for a jump shot.. Defensively, Teague and Hinrich need to tighten up on Rondo a lot more. I think Joe is having to work too hard on defense trying to guard Pierce. Marvin, u got to give me something on the defensive end at least.
————————————————————————————————————————————————-
My thoughts, exactly! I cannot believe the conversation is not about Smith starting the game off doing his own thing….back to his old ways of thinking he’s Lebron by bringing the ball up the court. His turnovers starting the game out caused the downward spiral. Can’t recall how many back to back turnovers dude was a part of in the 1st few minutes of the game. Dude, he missed an entire game, then he comes out trying to be Lebron. I thought when you see the game from the bench, you see where you fit in???????????
Mike
May 8th, 2012
12:52 am
Tuesday night is gonna be another night of slow play, just running the shot clock down, and taking a completely contested 20 footer. Smh. It’s over, nothin’ but the cryin’. It’ll be cool though because no players will cry because they couldn’t give a flying f**k. They’ve given up.
a1andonly
May 8th, 2012
2:27 am
I’m sick of being disappointed…..
a1andonly
May 8th, 2012
2:30 am
New Blog Campaign: Amnesty Joe
tyger
May 8th, 2012
4:52 am
tyger
May 7th, 2012
7:49 pm
Dismantling the Hawks…
Sunday was humiliating but why are we surprised? The
Hawks havent beaten +.500 teams all year. Why now?
Only way into second rd. if they got NYK, Orl or Indy…no luck…
One positive is you get a good eval on this group and it…
Totally dismantles Sund’s core improvement theory…
Teague – Better but insufficient; desperately need a leader…
His 3pt shooting killing us, where’s the defense? steals???
Rondo’s wiping his as with this kid…
Hinrich – Showed flashes of productivity, but exposed now…
Thought his leadership would be key to playoff success, but…
Has regressed instead and doesnt seem to fit w group…
JJohnson – The move to SF seems to have re-invigorated him…
Apparent that he still clashes with Smoove for the ball…
His understated nature doesnt transcend into leadership…
But at $20M per, we are probably stuck with him…unless Amare…
Stick him in corner and let him shoot and defend, he can do that…
JSmoove – probably better off not returning for playoffs…
Too bad for his injury, but hometown boy’s value will never be higher…
He’s played his last selfish card and will get his wish this summer…
We’ll miss the energy, highlight dunks, post defense…but not
The selfishness, long jumpers, poor attitude, bad passes…
We can win without him…Game 3 proved that…
Horford – probably better off not returning for playoffs…
Not good PR for last image to be that of weak link…
But we know fundamentally sound, coachable Big Al…
At full strength, he’s an Allstar and best draft pick…
Marvin – was one of my favorite Hawks at 6′9, 230
He could play 3 positions, SG, SF, PF and defend…
Occasionally showed flashes of brilliance…
But his time has run out and his salary is unjustifiable…
ZaZa – most improved and missed Hawk…
To the novice, they thought ZaZa was garbage…
They forgot ZaZa avg. nearly a double-double as starter…
Now, they know, I miss ZaZa more than Josh or Al…
TMac – was never used properly, wish him well…
Green – has value, but huge playoff letdown…
Pargo – ditto
Vladi – ditto
Collins – continues to prove worth as emergency BIG
Dampier – was never used properly, wish him well…
Stackhouse – ditto
In sum, Hawks will be active at draft, we have enough assets to…
secure two 1st rd. picks and dump some salary simultaneously…
Early favorites are Perry Jones and Quincy Miller, both of Baylor…
They would give us two promising wings to replace Marvin, Smoove…
While still building around:
Jason Terry
Joe Johnson
Al Horford
ZaZa Pachulia
Perry Jones
Percy Miller
Secondarily, Sund/LD has got to acquire a true PG…
A pass first, knock down shooter that can lead…
Teague is fine coming off the bench but he cant shoot…
Maybe Jason Kidd or even Jason Terry…
ZaZa and Horford are as good a frontline as there is…
JJohnson is the shooter and big guard defender…
Acquire a slasher…draft and free agency…
Acquire a true point guard thru free agency…
There will be enough scraps left over from the bench…
Tmac, maybe once Smoove, Marvin removed…
Willie Green is fine as long as the games dont count…
Vladi still a threat to stretch the defense…
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playoff cash
May 8th, 2012
6:05 am
the hawks made the playoffs and won 1 game—the players and coaches will be looking for a nice playoff bonus check before heading out to the caymans and europe for a long vacation.
Ray
May 8th, 2012
7:28 am
To me if we talking about trading people Josh is worth as much as a #10 draft pick in the first round or higher. Giving him to a team like the Kings or someone with a #10 or higher even New Orleans would give us that.
Al if we trading for draft picks is #25 or higher people aren’t stupid plus there are many PF’s in this league so you’d be better off trading for pieces instead of a draft pick for him.
Ray
May 8th, 2012
7:33 am
Like I said before if this thing must be blown up first things first fire the Owners and then you get rid of this pathetic excuse of a G.M and this bonehead guy parading around as the Head Coach.
I’d rather get rid of L.D now then later because he will try and draft his kid to ATL leave yet another burden on us cause he’s a letdown.
Ken Strickland
May 8th, 2012
9:14 am
With KHinrich and Twin starting, the Hawks are playing 3 on 5 offensively, which definitely accomodates Boston’s efforts to double JJ. Surely LDrew doesn’t think Hinrich’s DEF is so doggone great that he can continue tolerating his shakey ball handling, lack of assists, penetrating ability, and almost total lack of OFF production.
If Drew doesn’t like the idea of starting a big lineup of Josh-SF, Twin-OC(since he seems to somehow think he’s more productive than Dampier), Horford-PF, JJ-SG, and Teague-PG, he should bench Twin and start TMac-SF, Horford-OC, Josh-PF, JJ-SG, and Teague-PG. While I continue to believe TD is a far better HC that Woodson, he still seems to be affected to a large degree by the WOODY SYNDROME.
The WOODY SYNDROME is falling in love with certain veteran players and featuring them as starters and/or giving them heavy mins, even though they’ve become little more than fringe players who can no longer produce consistently. Considering KG is little more than a jumpshooting OC at this point, I’d start VRad at OC ahead of Twin.
With him at OC instead of Twin, we won’t being playing 4 on 5, and he’s definitely a better rebounder and scorer than twin. We can’t continue doing the WOODY, like
1-relying on ISO JOE,
2-letting Boston get away with doubling JJ with no counter alternative,
3-starting and giving heavy mins to the same unproductive players,
4-allowing the same players to beat us each gm,
5-Pressuring players like JTeague to overcome the lack of production from favored starter KHinrich, or Josh to overcome the lack of rebounding from favored starter Dampier.
6-Making no adjustments or changeswhatsoever to take advantage of Boston’s continuous doubling JJ.
After watching their beloved Knicks surge during the regular season after Woodson took over, only to see them crash and burn during the playoffs, sound familiar Hawk fans, do you think they’re as enamored with him now as they were before?
Steve Belkin
May 8th, 2012
11:45 am
You gentlemen seem to be missing the big picture. You are insulting a coach who has a .700 winning percentage in two seasons. You are questioning the talent level of the players.
This suggests you have poor observational skills. The central problem with this franchise is based on a laissez-faire leadership culture and an environment that breeds mediocrity.
You could take any of the “Big Four” from this team and place them on another team under good leadership and they would thrive. You could lose one of them and still get the same results. You could add a player like Carmelo Anthony or Chris Bosh and still have the same result.
It is a culture of insincerity. 11 guys picking up a pay check. Joe Johnson doesn’t even like to play basketball. But he shows up and scores 22 points because he knows that is the minimum he has to do in order to get paid.
No one on this team is inspired to play hard for anyone else on the team and no one plays with heart.
The majority of the owners rarely attend games. Ask Larry Drew when was the last time he had dinner with Rutherford Seydel? Ask Josh Smith the names of Beau Turner’s kids. They can’t tell you. They have no compass, no heart, and no inspiration. They are punching a clock, taking their scheduled breaks and waiting for retirement.
So, talk all you want about firing the coach, shuffling the lineup, packing Joe’s bags for him, but all you’re doing is saying “I don’t get it.” There is literally NOTHING that can be done to get this team over the hump. They don’t even know there IS a hump. All they know is that at about 10PM tonight the season will be over, and they can start their vacations. Don’t expect any noise from any players or management or ownership about expectations or change. The most you will get is Josh Smith demanding to be traded. Most of the people posting here won’t be at the game. But the ones who are there will be raining the boos down on the Hawks as if they did something wrong. But the sad truth is that to the man every one of these players did exactly what team ownership demanded of them. They may have asked them to win, but they did everything they could to show them they don’t really care one way or the other.
It’s time for change – from the top. The Hawks need a leader, a face.
It’s no accident that the Mavericks won a championship last year. They don’t necessarily have more talent that the Hawks. But ask Dirt Nowitzki who he enjoys hanging out with when he’s not playing. He has lots of friends here and in Hamburg, but he really enjoys spending time with his buddy Mark Cuban. All of the guys on the team like him and know a lot about him. What do any of you know about Todd Foreman or Bruce Levenson? Could you pick them out of a lineup? I assure you Al Horford knows approximately as much about them as you do.
So, what do we do? We wait for someone who actually has the resources to own a team to come along and buy it. Not a spoiled son-in-law who can cough up points on a loan for a 9% stake. I mean a bona fide owner. Obviously it will not be Stan Kasten. If he could afford to do it, he would have. Instead he has thrown in his lot with ASG West, a consortium of wannabes now posing as the Dodgers’ new ownership group. Time will tell how long that lasts. But I wish Mr. Kasten the best of luck. The city of Atlanta and sports fans everywhere owe him a tremendous amount of respect and gratitude.
There are viable pieces of this puzzle that exist within the organization. Mike Gearon would still make a good GM. Dominique Wilkins is a recognizable face whom the players respect. What Atlanta needs is a legitimate money man. A Shahid Khan or Mikhail Prokhorov or Arthur Blank.
Doc Rivers would make an excellent GM, and since Boston fans have such a short memory, maybe they will let us have him when the Celtics get bounced short of ECF this year.
But the bottom line is the Atlanta Spirit LLC must go – before the Hawks end up in Las Vegas.
Score
May 8th, 2012
11:47 am
My chances of dating Kate Upton > Atlanta’s chances of ever winning an NBA title
hawkfan335
May 8th, 2012
2:17 pm
If the Hawks lose tonight, I think that the roster will be blown up and some changes will be made before the start of the next season.