Atlanta Hawks: Video: Hobbled Hawks fall to Celtics in Game 3
I reviewed the Hawks’ 90-84 loss to the Celtics in Game 3 with Dan Shaughnessy of The Boston Globe.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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217 comments Add your comment
northcyde
May 5th, 2012
3:47 pm
O’Brien . . . I’ve been watching Faried for about 4 years. I saw him all through college. That guy is a mini-beast. He’s FASTER than Dennis Rodman, much more offensively gifted than Rodman, but not as great of a rebounder and defender ( although he is very good in both of those areas ).
A guy like Faried is exactly what this team needs, because like Ivan, there would never be a question on if he brought “energy”. LD would pretty much have to play dude, because he’s all over the place when he’s in the game. Faried is good enough to justify moving Josh Smith to SF, and bury Marvin deep on the bench. Denver hardly runs plays for that guy, and he still gets double-doubles.
The fact that he’s averaging 12 points and 11 rebounds as a rookie in the playoffs . . against arguably the best frontline combo in the NBA ( Bynum and Gasol ), is incredible to me.
As I said during the season, the Hawks just don’t have the vision when it comes to assessing draft picks. Hinrich has come around since being inserted into the starting lineup, but had we kept both Jordan and that draft pick ( and had enough sense to draft Faried when he dropped to us ), this team could be DANGEROUS.
Teague
JJ
T-Mac
Smith
Zaza
Faried
Marvin
Jordan ( who could play the backup PG in short stretches )
Collins/Dampier
In most cases, that would be a very solid 9 man rotation to go with during these playoffs. Just have to convince Jordan to only jack up shots if he’s making them right out the gate, and be a facilitator when he isn’t.
Sautee
May 5th, 2012
3:54 pm
High-Sider,
About this: “Second, this whole notion about Hinrich being a “good or great” defender has been blown way out of proportion. Do you realize that Rondo had a monster triple-double last night vs. the Hawks [17pts, 14rebs and 12 asts]?”
Monster triple-double? Then I guess any T-D is “monster”
But about Kirk’s defense, I’ll repost part of Wendy’s 1:16pm post today:
“When Kirk was on the floor, Rondo was 1-9, plus 2 free throws, for 4 points, 7 rebounds, 7 assists, 5 TOs, and 2 steals.”
“When Kirk was on the bench, Rondo was 6-13, plus 1 free throw, for 13 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 TO, and 2 steals.”
So what is out of proportion about that defense? Does that not seem like at least “good” defense to you? 1-9 with 5 turnovers?
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2012
4:07 pm
“And Faried a periennial All Star? I think Karl will give him that opportunity – He looks more like a 15, 16 and 10 guys on a consistent basis too me. Upper echelon, yes. But better than Love, Gasol, Aldridge, Griffin in the West? It would take a real break, like injuries to others, for him to be an All Star in the West.”
He is the same kind of player as Kenyon Martin, who made an All Star game, and is farther along in his development than Martin was in his rookie season. I don’t think he’s a perennial All Star, but I do think he’ll make one or two All Star games. That’s more than Kirk is going to make for the rest of his career. Stupid, stupid trade.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
4:09 pm
High -sider I agree with you nortcyde says our defense has to be better,no we have to score more points. Having KH & MW on the court at the same time while having JC on the court at the same time is like playing 2 vs 5 .this is the playoffs you got to play your key players major min ,they can rest in the offseason. This is the playoffs LD has to seriously cut back on the min of his bench,they are bring nothing.Why did LD have Pargo playing Pg with jt in the lineup. We need to be playing big,needs to be playing Ivan,needs to play TMac major min sit MW ,WG & Pargo..Rivers wouldn’t be taking JT out of the game to give Pargo or KH min at pg. Why the hell does he have Vlad in at the end of the game,he is not going to give you anything, I guess nortcyde though JJ played great even tho he missed 17 shots.nortcyde is the man who always said Jc1 was not an efficient offensive player,he gives KH credit for his great defense which is really suspect even when he brings nothing to the offense
Sautee
May 5th, 2012
4:15 pm
ding!
High-sider
May 5th, 2012
4:18 pm
@Sautee
Rondo’s 4pts, 7rebs, 7asts and 2stls is still a helluva contribution to me. Seven [7] assists mean Rondo accounted for or assisted in 14+ points for the Celtics while being guarded by Hinrich. In Game 1, Rondo shot 10-18 from the field, scored 20 points, “accumulated” 11 assists and “grabbed” four rebounds while getting four steals. Is that “good or great defense” on Rondo? I think not. Hell yes, Hinrich is an overrated defender and is an overrated NBA player.
Rondo can perform the intangible which is he [Rondo] has the ability to control the pace [or tempo] of the [basketball] game. Hinrich doesn’t “manage or control” the tempo [of a basketball game] like Rondo does.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
May 5th, 2012
4:21 pm
I bash on Marvin because I’m a realist and he sucks. I hardly form emotional connections with any players. It’s all about winning games.
Northcyde, apart from Pargo, are we playing bad defense in this series? No. STFU.
May 5th, 2012
4:18 pm
“In Melo’s case, he simply hasn’t played on great teams, which led to most of his teams getting a 6 – 8 seed. That’s a recipe for disaster in most cases in the playoffs.”
Pretty sure he’s been to the WCF
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2012
4:27 pm
“The truth . . . is that while Josh is a MAJOR talent, he does some things that hinder the overall success of the team as well ”
So does everyone else on this team. So does pretty much everyone else in the league not named LeBron. Bottom line is, when you average out the positives and negatives, Josh contributes more to this team than anyone else. He emphatically proved that over the course of the regular season.
It’s not about whether or not I “believe” that Josh is the most important player on the team. He just is. You might as well try to argue that Westbrook means more to the Thunder than Durant. Some things are just obvious. Joe’s relevance to this team doesn’t even approach Josh’s relevance to this team, and hasn’t all season.
I haven’t even really been “doubting” Joe. He is what he is — a solid complementary player and on-ball defender who will hit big shots if he doesn’t have to create them himself. I have just realized for at least two years that he needs to take a back seat offensively on this team. They finally, thankfully, stopped using him as the focal point of the offense this season.
” But in THIS series, in which you have a weak offensive rebounding Celtic team that doesn’t have much depth outside of their starters, most of Josh’s contributions to this team CAN and WILL be made up by multiple people. ”
Not over multiple games, they won’t. What about Dampier and T-Mac’s seasons suggest to you that they will pick up the slack every game the rest of this series if, God forbid, Josh can’t go? T-Mac was great yesterday and he deserves more playing time, but we have seen all season that he doesn’t have that lift in his legs most games. The more they play, the more the Celtics will game plan for them and limit their effectiveness. That’s what well-coached teams do. Against good teams, you can’t get collections of role players to duplicate what stars do on a consistent basis. That’s why Chicago’s offense has fallen apart without Rose, and that’s why Orlando has fallen apart without Dwight.
“The reason why Chicago is having trouble compensating for what Rose brought to the table, is because Philly is an excellent defensive team themselves ( #3 in the league ).”
Yeah, and Boston is the #1 defensive team in the league, which is why if the Hawks have to go more games without Josh, they are going to find a way to account for the role players who try to pick up the slack.
“The Hawks didn’t even play great last night. That group could actually play a lot better than what they did.”
HELL NO they can’t. Not against Boston. The Hawks yesterday fought and fought hard. They played with more heart than I have seen them show since the 2007-08 playoffs. Dampier and T-Mac found the fountain of youth. Teague played one of the better games he has played all season. Kirk defended Rondo pretty well. Weak defensive players like Willie Green came up with stops when the Hawks needed them. That collection of players is simply not going to play any better. LD could have substituted better, but that is about as good as that collection of players can play.
You are way overestimating the value and ability of role players. Role players only play well consistently when they can play off stars. Without a star around, a collection of role players might steal a game here or there, but they are going to give you diminishing returns the more they play. This is especially true when you have a mediocre coach like LD as opposed to a great coach like Thibodeau, who is having his own problems getting role players to produce.
“And I’ll say this right now. If Josh DOES play, the Hawks win a game in which they hold Boston to under 75 points.”
If Josh plays yesterday, the Hawks win. If Josh plays yesterday and Joe sits out, and Josh gets 28 shot attempts, I can guarantee you that a) he gets at least 29 points off those attempts, b) the team’s ball movement is better throughout the game, and c) the Hawks get better shots in the late 4th quarter and overtime, and I’m pretty confident that d) the Hawks win. This is not me hating on Joe. It is just me recognizing that Joe is a complementary player and shouldn’t be counted on to create offense. Granted, Josh is also a complementary player, but he is much closer to being a competent focal point of an offense than Joe is.
Sautee
May 5th, 2012
4:28 pm
High-Sider,
So you just IGNORE 1-9 shooting? And IGNORE 5 turnovers?
According to your logic, Hinrich just stopped a potential 16 to 24 points (8 shots) and gave the Hawks an extra 5 possessions. If that’s over-rated, I’ll take it.
Methinks someone’s hater-ade is showing.
And BTW, in Game 1 Teague guarded Rondo most of the time.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
4:31 pm
KH is on the downside of his career,I doubt that he would be playing first string pg or sg on many NBA teams if any.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2012
4:31 pm
“And if Marvin could give us ANYTHING offensively from a spot up shooting standpoint, we may have won the game last night.”
But that’s the thing — he can’t. He’s a role player. Role players are not going to give you that if they can’t play off a star who creates offense for others. It’s the same reason Pargo and Green have been absent on offense this series.
It’s why Ryan Anderson as the league’s most improved player is such a joke. Players like him produce like they do because they have stars to free them up.
That’s why you’re flat out wrong when you say that group last night can play better. They can’t. That’s the best they can play. The only way those players are going to play better is if a star is on the floor to create offense and free them up for easier shots. The Hawks don’t have a star. But the closest thing they have to a star, by FAR, is Josh Smith.
northcyde
May 5th, 2012
4:34 pm
Jeje . . do you pay attention to detail, just to take a jab? Wasn’t the topic Melo’s 1st round exits? Didn’t I list every single team that he lost to in the 1st round? I think I even talked about Melo’s only deep run in the playoffs coming when Billups was with him, and the Nuggets were a good defensive team.
So YOU . . STFU. LOL @ you dudes.
And let’s rewind about the Hawks defense. These are the playoffs. You cannot afford to have a defensive lapse at ANY point in the game, because most of these teams are good enough that you may not be able to recover from that.
And it is critical that you’re able to get stops in crunch time. That’s what playoff basketball is all about.
What do you NOT understand about the Celtics being the #1 defensive team in the league? We’re not going to just put up 100 points on that team. So what we have to do is limit their production as much as possible. It is much more likely for the Hawks to win a defensive battle with the Celtics, than to see then offensively explode on them for 100 points. So the Hawks focus has to be to play better defense, especially when it comes to securing rebounds.
Are you watching the Indiana – Orlando game right now? Everytime Orlando makes a run at Indy, they have a defensive breakdown in which the Pacers get a wide open look, or an easy basket. You just can’t have that in the playoffs. Great offensive teams get knocked completely out in the playoffs, because everybody’s focus is on defense.
But you, and some of the other guys will never understand this.
Watch “Lob City” in a few minutes vs Memphis. If they don’t play defense today, Memphis will beat them. They can dunk and toss lobs all they want. But they better play some damn defense.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
4:34 pm
Sautee I kind of think you are wrong whom KH was playing,I remember during the game thinking why does LD have KH playing Rondo.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2012
4:37 pm
““Second, this whole notion about Hinrich being a “good or great” defender has been blown way out of proportion. Do you realize that Rondo had a monster triple-double last night vs. the Hawks [17pts, 14rebs and 12 asts]?””
I agree that Kirk is an overrated defender (he was a very good defender 3 years ago, not so much now). With that said, Rondo shot 7/22 yesterday and had 6 turnovers. Yeah, he put up a triple double, but he also had the ball in his hands every single possession. Give Teague that kind of offensive freedom and I’m pretty sure he can put up a triple double with that kind of inefficiency too.
Kirk and Teague did a pretty good job on Rondo yesterday. The Hawks didn’t lose because Rondo had a triple double. They lost because LD overused Pargo and the Hawks couldn’t score in overtime.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
4:38 pm
Nortcyde. I look at Melo & JJ as having the same type of game,iso ballplayers . I would rate Melo as being a better player than JJ.
Sautee
May 5th, 2012
4:40 pm
No Rusty, in Game 1, Kirk started out on Bradley and Teague on Rondo. If you saw Kirk on Rondo, it was either off a switch, or Teague was out of the game.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2012
4:41 pm
“Everytime Orlando makes a run at Indy, they have a defensive breakdown in which the Pacers get a wide open look, or an easy basket.”
So you’re telling me the hodgepodge of role players that are playing Dwight Howard’s minutes can’t band together and have his level of defensive impact?
Stars are stars. Role players are role players. The Magic are playing as well as they possibly can right now, and they still are only tied in this game, against a team who don’t even really have true stars themselves.
northcyde
May 5th, 2012
4:41 pm
@ Najeh . . . All I’m asking from Marvin at this point, is to make a few of those wide open shots that he’s made all year. As bad as people say Marvin is, he was nowhere near this bad. I’m not asking for 20 points. Just do what he did during the season: 10 pts – 6 rebs – while shooting around 40% from three. But he can’t even do that.
And look at Orlando. Finally decided to play defense, and goes on an 8 – 0 run.
@ Sautee . . that’s what these guys do though. They don’t see the value in defense. They think playoff basketball is just like regular season basketball, in which teams will go for 100 points. LD has that same mentality, while expecting Pargo to lock people down.
If you have the choice between seeing Pargo score 5 points on 9 possessions . . or seeing Hinrich limit Rondo to 0 points on 9 possessions, I’m taking the defense every single day.
But those guys don’t think like that.
It’s a reason why there has never been an Atlanta Hawk team that has made the EC Finals. And part of that is because most Hawk playoff teams haven’t been a top 5 defensive squad.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
4:41 pm
The hawks lost the last 2 games because Doc out coached LD,it is as simple as that.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
4:46 pm
The scores tell the truth our defense has been good,our offense not so good,it is as simple as that.
Sautee
May 5th, 2012
4:47 pm
The Hawks lost the last two games because Boston scored more points than the Hawks did. It’s as simple as that.
northcyde
May 5th, 2012
4:48 pm
Najeh . . to say that the Hawks couldn’t play better than they did last night without Josh in the lineup, is silly.
We basically got nothing offensively from Hinrich, Ivan, Marvin, and Pargo. If those guys even make a few wide open jumpers, that would be an improvement.
What can stay consistent though, is the defensive effort exerted by those guys. T-Mac was on pace to have about a 18 – 22 point game, had he not turned his ankle. Of course those guys could’ve played better.
LOL . . we shot 37% last night, but we couldn’t do better than that? Come on man.
Josh isn’t the end all, be all for this team . . . just like JJ isn’t. Just like Horford wasn’t ( even though people thought we would crash and burn without him ).
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
May 5th, 2012
4:49 pm
High-sider
Second, this whole notion about Hinrich being a “good or great” defender has been blown way out of proportion. Do you realize that Rondo had a monster triple-double last night vs. the Hawks [17pts, 14rebs and 12 asts]? In addition, Hinrich didn’t score a single point in Game 3 vs. the Celtics – zero, zilch, nada, nothing, nyet [that's Russian for "no"], goose egg, etc. You, northcyde, keep stressing [that] the Hawks need to play good or better defense. In Game 3, the Celtics only shot 40.5% from the field and 30.8% from the 3pt. arc; I would consider that to be bad offense or good defense – take your pick. On the other hand, the Hawks shot 37.8% from the field and 20.0% from the 3pt. arc. The Hawks need to play better offense and need other players to step [it] up, offensively, [most] notably, Kirk Hinrich.
***
amen.
Celts were just as bad as us offensively. Both teams played great D. I don’t even think northcyde watches the games.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2012
4:55 pm
“We basically got nothing offensively from Hinrich, Ivan, Marvin, and Pargo. If those guys even make a few wide open jumpers, that would be an improvement.”
They are role players. They are not going to make those jumpers unless someone is creating those shots for them. The Hawks’ two best shot creators are Josh and T-Mac. And out of those four, Marvin is the only one who got “wide open” jumpers out of the flow of the offense.
I mean, really, you say Josh hurts the team by taking jumpers, but you want Ivan — who shoots in the 25% range on long 2 point jumpers — to hit jumpers for you in a playoff game against the #1 defense in the league? You’re not being realistic. Those players are not that good.
northcyde
May 5th, 2012
4:57 pm
Ummm Najeh . . . Josh Smith is NOT Dwight Howard.
Like I said, there are some things that you cannot replace with Josh ( the shot blocking, the post offense, the passing out of the post ).
But with Josh out of the lineup, you get other things ( bigs playing like bigs and not like guards, a little better “on the ball” defense, more of Teague running the show, ).
It’s a give and take.
The entire Hawks offense doesn’t revolve around Josh. And while Josh is the heart and soul of the Hawks defense, his presence can be made up by a multitude of guys doing more things.
I mean . . that team not only survived without Josh, it survived without Zaza. Those are our 2 top rebounders. If you count Horford, those are our top 3 rebounders.
This is basketball man. If it takes 4 guys to replicate the production of 2 people, and if the team plays good “team defense” overall, then they can get it done.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2012
4:57 pm
“Josh isn’t the end all, be all for this team . . . just like JJ isn’t. Just like Horford wasn’t”
None of them is good enough to be the best player on a championship team. But Josh creates quality shots for teammates. Joe and Al don’t. That is why, even with the questionable shot selection, even with the complete inability to do anything with his right hand, Josh has the best plus/minus on this team.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2012
5:00 pm
“a little better “on the ball” defense”
I have no idea where you are getting this from. Who exactly plays better on the ball defense because Josh is out of the game? This makes absolutely no sense.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
May 5th, 2012
5:06 pm
I have no idea where you are getting this from. Who exactly plays better on the ball defense because Josh is out of the game? This makes absolutely no sense.
***
he derived this information from convoluted statistics the rest of us are too dumb to understand
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2012
5:07 pm
“And while Josh is the heart and soul of the Hawks defense, his presence can be made up by a multitude of guys doing more things.”
“Can” and “will” are not the same thing. Yeah, people like Dampier “can” step up and make up for Josh’s absence. That doesn’t mean they “will” do so over a period of multiple games in the playoffs against a good team.
Orlando just fought their asses off in a must win game without their best player, playing with heart and pride, and lost. No matter how hard the likes of Glen Davis and Daniel Orton try, they cannot and will not make up for Dwight’s absence. No, Josh isn’t Dwight, but his replacements are not going to adequately replace what he does over an extended period of time either.
Sautee
May 5th, 2012
5:15 pm
“But Josh creates quality shots for teammates. Joe and Al don’t.” – Najeh
To me, if a shot goes in, it’s a quality shot. Al has better assist totals than most bigs at their respective positions. Last year Al averaged 3.5 assists / gm, which would lead the league for centers this year. And if you measured him at PF, only Josh, Pau, and Diaw would have better assist nimbers.
I agree that Josh is a very good passer but we tend to forget Al’s passing since we haven’t seen it in so long. That said, Josh certainly tries, and mostly makes more difficult passes than Al. Al tends toward the simple play, which is why coaches love him.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
5:23 pm
Josh is the end all for this team just like joe or al is. This isn’t what nortcyde was saying when we resigned JJ . He said if we lost JJ we would be in the lottery. The smart move would have been for JJ to go,but who would have given him the money we gave, no one in their right mind
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
May 5th, 2012
5:25 pm
Playing great defense has NOTHING to do with guys on our team missing WIDE OPEN shots last night.
Offense is the issue
northcyde
May 5th, 2012
5:27 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
May 5th, 2012
4:55 pm
“We basically got nothing offensively from Hinrich, Ivan, Marvin, and Pargo. If those guys even make a few wide open jumpers, that would be an improvement.”
They are role players. They are not going to make those jumpers unless someone is creating those shots for them. The Hawks’ two best shot creators are Josh and T-Mac. And out of those four, Marvin is the only one who got “wide open” jumpers out of the flow of the offense.
I mean, really, you say Josh hurts the team by taking jumpers, but you want Ivan — who shoots in the 25% range on long 2 point jumpers — to hit jumpers for you in a playoff game against the #1 defense in the league? You’re not being realistic. Those players are not that good.
**********************
You still don’t understand Najeh. The way Ivan can help the team in the absence of Josh, is to rebound the basketball at a high rate and put the ball back in the hole off of offensive rebounds. Not by taking the same type of shots that Josh takes.
Najeh . . are we going to play this game about Josh? He’s shooting 39% in this series at PF. And the reason for that is because he’s shooting 29% on his midrange jumpers. KG isn’t letting him post up, so Josh is settling for jumpers,
41 FG attempts for Josh . . 21 of those attempts have come from outside the paint, but inside the 3 point line. If thats going to be Josh’s shot dispersal, we may as well play him at SF, and start Ivan at the PF, so that he can fight for offensive rebounds and get put backs.
With Josh out of the game, you simply had a different dispersal of shots. You got more Teague going into the lane. You got JJ and T-Mac basically taking Josh’s midrange shots ( and not making a high percentage of them either ). So from an offensive standpoint, the main difference was Teague getting better looks and having the ball more in his hands.
It’s not like Josh is going into the post and dominating people and drawing a lot of fouls to get to the FT line. He’s taking guard-small foward like shots in this series. That’s why his offensive impact wasn’t sorely missed, with JJ and T-Mac basically absorbing the shots that Josh usually takes, with Teague getting into the lane for his offense.
Both T-Mac and JJ went a combined 16 – 44 FG ( 36% FG ) and scored 41 points. Heck, that’s pretty much what both JJ and Josh do combined against the Celtics anyway. So the thing that had to be made up, was the rebounding. Marvin grabs 11 rebounds ( 6 over his regular season average ) and Dampier grabs 6 rebounds.
So there you go.
So say that those players can’t do that again. Maybe not in that combination, but it can be done again. We have enough mix of talent to better what we did last night.
Maybe instead of Marvin getting 11 rebounds . . Marvin grabs 5 rebounds, but Ivan grabs 6. Maybe instead of T-Mac going for 12 points, Hinrich duplicates his Game 1 performance, and goes for 12 points.
We don’t have great talent on this team, but we do have a specialty mix of talent. We have centers who can’t score, but can defend. We have guards who aren’t good defenders, but can make open shots on occasion. T-Mac gives you an all-around player off the bench. Marvin wil at least rebound the basketball, if anything.
He’s not the end all, be all Najeh. He just isn’t. He’s a very good player with flaws, just like JJ.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
5:28 pm
Is not the end all
Rod from College Park
May 5th, 2012
5:29 pm
“@ Najeh . . . All I’m asking from Marvin at this point, is to make a few of those wide open shots that he’s made all year. As bad as people say Marvin is, he was nowhere near this bad. I’m not asking for 20 points. Just do what he did during the season: 10 pts – 6 rebs – while shooting around 40% from three. But he can’t even do that.”
Northcyde might well be one of the dumbest bloggers ever. Guess what. Marvin never makes the same shots he makes during the regular season. Look at his career playoff stats.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
5:36 pm
We need major min from JJ ,JT TMac Ivan & Josh if it will be,we don’t need to play KH,WG,Vlad & Pargo if they are not giving us anything on offense.we need to win now or go fishing
Rod from College Park
May 5th, 2012
5:37 pm
Northcyde (You big dummy in my Fred Sanford Voice),
I posted this on the game blog, and if you watch the games you can see that the Celtics don’t go after offensive rebounds. That’s part of their gameplan. Thus the inflated rebound numbers for our guys in this series (Josh, Joe, TMac, and Marvin). The Hawks announcer (Steve Holman) pointed it out. If you look most of the guys rebounds are all defensive. The Celtics gameplan is to keep Teague from getting out on the break, by not going after offensive boards. Those rebounding #’s you are pointing out are meaningless.
northcyde
May 5th, 2012
5:38 pm
Najeh, the reason why Orlando couldn’t make up for Dwight’s absence, is because that team would rather invest in shooters, than rebounders. Substitute a guy like Reggie Evans on the Magic, and take out Daniel Orton, and you now have a squad that could possibly make up for Howard’s rebounding, with a Big Baby – Evans frontline. Even if you put Evans at center, they may not skip a beat from a rebounding standpoint.
When Memphis lost Zach Randolph for most of the year, people thought the Grizzlies would slip. So what did they do? They traded Xavier Henry to Philly for Mareese Speights(sp). Then they signed Dante Cunningham ( pretty much their version of Ivan ).
The result was that both Speights and Cunningham, while not nearly as talented as Z-Bo, balanced that team out in his absence. They got a combined 14 points and 10 rebounds from those two over the course of the season. So to make up for the rest of Z-Bo’s production, Marc Gasol’s touches increased, and so did his production.
It’s an illustration on how the production of a very good player can be made up by multiple people. It happens all the time in the NBA, if you have the right mix of players on the team.
northcyde
May 5th, 2012
5:49 pm
Rod . . so does that mean that the 22 point – 18 rebound game that Josh Smith had . . was a mirage? And if Marvin’s 11 rebounds in 20 minutes were so “insignificant”, why couldn’t Collins and Dampier gather in more rebounds in a 34 minute span?
No matter what the Celtics’ strategy on offensive rebounding is, we still have to go get the ball. And for a team that doesn’t go after offensive rebounds, it was an offensive rebound that sealed that game last night.
I love the name calling though. Keep it coming. And I’ll keep destroying your azz on these boards with your lack of basketball knowledge. 80% of your posts are about Marvin Williams and what he’s not doing, and not discussing the Hawks as a whole. At least posters like Najeh, Doc, Astro, and O’Brien take time to discuss the strategy of the team, without focusing on one player.
But you and your “son” High-Sider, spend all of your time on these boards either talking about Marvin’s ineptness, or Jamal’s so-called clutch shotmaking.
I’d much rather type with Najeh, seeing that he does know the game, unlike you, Jeje, High-Sider, and Crusty ( whom may all be the same person anyway ).
*********************
Memphis finally decided to play defense in this game, and cut off all of that running that the Clips were doing. Now we have a game. Knock those overrated Clippers out.
ejh
May 5th, 2012
5:59 pm
I have to say this the hawks fought back to tie the game in the 4th quarter. Joe Johnson hit two clutch shots, which was good to see, because we do not get that when the hawks need it sometimes. But to me the key play was the Willie Green missed jumper. That play was designed perfectly. Joe drew to defenders to the corner and made a quick pass to McGrady who took a dribble towards the paint and drew a defender and then made a quick pass to willie green who gave a great pump fake, but the problem was he took the jumper, when there was nobody in front of him, and he could have driven all the way to the basket, for an easy layup, because the celtic defense was late to react. If anything they would to had to foul to stop the easy basket. to me that was the play that cost the hawks the game. Go Hawks lets get Game 4, and then come home and get game 5.
northcyde
May 5th, 2012
6:03 pm
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
5:23 pm
Josh is the end all for this team just like joe or al is. This isn’t what nortcyde was saying when we resigned JJ . He said if we lost JJ we would be in the lottery. The smart move would have been for JJ to go,but who would have given him the money we gave, no one in their right mind
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You know why I said that? I said it because Jamal Crawford would become the leading shot taker on the team. He would be the guy that Drew would’ve gone to down the stretch. It would’ve been ISO CRAW ( like always when he has the ball ) instead of ISO JJ. And contrary to popular belief, ISO CRAW is worse than ISO JJ.
And the Hawks would’ve suddenly found themselves being back in 2007 times, in which Josh and Al would have to watch the opposing SG constantly, because Jamal wouldn’t be able to guard him.
As much as people love Jamal around here, you don’t want that guy being the #1 option on any team. His defense and his shot selection would’ve had us as an 8 seed, or in the lottery. Ask Portland fans what they think of Jamal.
VinceVanGo
May 5th, 2012
6:09 pm
Get out the helium, it’s time to blow up this team! Trade Josh Smith & the Hawks #1 pick for the highest pick(hopefully the overall # 1 pick) they can get. Trade Al Horford and the Hawks #2 pick for the highest #1 pick they can get. Draft the best center and power forward they can get and build around Jeff Teague. Keep Marvin Williams around for one more(transition) year, then trade him. Keep Joe Johnson for 1 or 2 more years at the most, then trade him. Keep all of the minimum priced vets that have produced this year(McGrady, I. Johnson, Pargo, Green, J. Collins) to help the transition of the two new first rounders. These would be moves in the right direction. The current nucleus has had and failed at it’s chance.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
6:10 pm
Getting testy nortcyde don’t like anyone to diagree with you,you are boring with all your dumb stats.I do not blog under any other name,can you say the same.
ejh
May 5th, 2012
6:12 pm
This is what win games in the fourth quarter if the hawks or tied up 2 or down 2. The three things you have to do is: (1) outrebound your opponent and not give up more offensive rebounds than you get. (2) You have to have less turnoveers than your opponent, and (3) you have get to the foul line more than your opponent and make 85 to 90 percent of your foul shots. When you win these categories you are going to win the game down the stretch. That should be the hawks focous going into game 4 and 5.Those are effort categories. You hustle for rebounds and loose balls, You focus harder or details like cutting hard off of screens, making the sure pass, and not lazy passes, no dribbling the ball off your foot, not stepping outbounds near sidelines or baselines, when you are mentally focused on these things you do not have unforced errors or turnovers. And get to the lane and create contact to make the referees call something if do not be the agreessor the refs are not going to give anything. make them blow the whistle. Boston have won the last two games because they have done these things down the stretch and the hawks have not. If the hawks had done these things they would be up 3-0 in the series. But if they do these things now they win the series in 6 or 7.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
May 5th, 2012
6:12 pm
Northcyde giving props to someone who grabbed all his rebounds on the DEFENSIVE end vs a team that didn’t crash the glass and who has 8 TOTAL points in this series. DAMPIER has almost 8 in ONE game
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
May 5th, 2012
6:15 pm
Northcyde just gave props to MARVIN .
LOL
About all you need to know about this guy. Same guy who predicted Marvin would score 19 at NYK and dude went scoreless
Same herb who dedicated an 8 Mile rap to me.
GTFOH. i own you
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
6:16 pm
Jc1 wasn’t the answer but neither was Joe.
Sautee
May 5th, 2012
6:24 pm
Rusty, I believe Allen Iverson was the answer.
Rusty
May 5th, 2012
6:30 pm
I would have like to seen iverson here but had big doubts whether LD would have played.him.
northcyde
May 5th, 2012
6:31 pm
Crusty . . . you don’t add anything of value to this blog. I can handle you easily. You claim that you’re 70 something. And I normally respect my elders. But you type and talk like you’re Jeje’s age ( I’m assuming that Jeje is 15 or something ).
I’d rather watch Grandad handle you.
I can do this all day, but I won’t, since I’ll act like a Mexican today, and celebrate Cinco de Mayo.
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@ ejh 6:12 pm
Great post. Imagine that if on that last play, either T-Mac or especially Willie Green had gone all the way HARD to the rim, to draw a foul? They would’ve forced the officials to make a call had they attacked hard into the paint.
I thought Green would make the jumper, but I wish he would’ve gone to the rim and possibly won the game at the FT line.
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Jeje . . you’re the one obsessed with me. Outside of the 8 mile rap, I don’t even respond to most of your posts. But you, Crusty, Rod, and his little boy High-Sider, constantly come at me.
I’ve been doing this for years. And I type fast enough to take on all 4 of you at the same time if need be.
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Memphis slowly gaining control of the tempo of this game. They’re in position to pull this out in the end. Memphis still needs to clamp down on limiting those fast break opportunities though.