Atlanta Hawks: Josh Smith doubtful for Game 3 with knee injury

A person with knowledge of the prognosis for Josh Smith said the Hawks forward is doubtful to play in Game 3 against the Celtics Friday after he suffered a left knee injury in Game 2 Tuesday.

The person said Smith has patellar tendonitis with inflammation in the injured area but an MRI revealed no structural damage. If Smith misses Game 3 he likely would return for Game 4 Sunday in Boston, according to the person.

The person did not want to be identified because the Hawks have not released details of Smith’s injury. The Hawks released a statement that said Smith is day-to-day with a “strained left tendon.”

Smith suffered the injury during the fourth quarter of Atlanta’s 87-80 defeat to Boston. He appeared to pull up limping after a layup attempt and later aggravated it while jostling for rebounding position with Boston’s Kevin Garnett.

Smith played through nagging injuries during the regular season. Smith and Jeff Teague were the only starters to play in all 66 games.

“I know Josh is a guy if it’s just hurting him, he’s going to play,” Hawks coach Larry Drew said before Smith’s MRI results were known. “He has that kind of toughness. But if it’s a situation where he positively, absolutely can’t play, then he won’t be out there.

“I’m always worried in these situations. He’ s just been so good for us and certainly he’s a key component in order for us to have success. With both of your centers out and looking at your power forward being injured, I’m hoping for the best. ”

The Hawks also are without Al Horford (pectoral) and Zaza Pachulia (foot). Horford has ruled himself out for the entire series but there is a chance Pachulia can return if the series is extended.

Drew said Smith’s injury has no bearing on the timetable for Horford and Pachulia.

“I ask every day how they are doing, but me asking and wanting them back is not going to speed up the process whether they are ready or not,” Drew said. “If they are ready and they can play I am sure they would play. If Josh is not ready to go, and if Zaza and Al are not ready, I will just have to be without all three guys and we will march on. As bad as I want those guys back, if those guys aren’t ready to play I can’t push it or pressure them into playing.”

If the Hawks have to play without Smith, they’d be left with no effective low-post scorers or help defenders in the frontcourt. Ivan Johnson would be about it as far as big men who can rebound.

Drew’s options for the lineup would include starting Johnson at power forward alongside Jason Collins or going small with Marvin Williams, Vladimir Radmanovic or Tracy McGrady at power forward.

None of those options is likely to do much to help Atlanta’s anemic offense. Smith’s ability to score in the post and ignite the fast break after rebounds have been the most reliable options for the Hawks in this series.

“We have to make a decision who to insert into the starting lineup,” Drew said. “It changes the matchups. Defensively, we would have to make adjustments. Offensively we are certainly going to have to do some things differently. As far as posting up, he’s the guy I’ve really been going through a lot. We would have to tweak things quite a bit.”

Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat

272 comments Add your comment

cwebb

May 2nd, 2012
2:06 pm

High-sider

May 2nd, 2012
2:09 pm

GET WELL SOON!!

May 2nd, 2012
2:10 pm

The world saw how Joe is the worst Superstar when J Smith went down. Joe benefits from having Josh collapse and breakdown the D so Joe can get a wide open jumper. God knows he can’t create his own shot!!!!

BigDawg

May 2nd, 2012
2:10 pm

Series over, Boston to round 2!

msc

May 2nd, 2012
2:11 pm

im hoping this person has no idea what he is talking about lol

mike

May 2nd, 2012
2:13 pm

MC- don’t turn into Chris Broussard and his “sources” right now.. a person with “knowledge of the prognosis”?

MsDee

May 2nd, 2012
2:15 pm

All in all tho, the Hawks should just call it a day and rest..this season was just too brutal for them and many others, for that matter, to handle a 66 game season..way to go!! Proud of how far u guys came with all the injuries and to STILL finish in 4th place (record wise). Take a LONG vacation and heal, U GUYS DESERVE IT!!

High-sider

May 2nd, 2012
2:15 pm

Rod from College Park

May 2nd, 2012
1:03 pm

High-sider,

Could not have said it better myself.
———————————

‘Preciate it, Rod f.C.P.

Brime Lee

May 2nd, 2012
2:18 pm

Oh God, It’s even hard to overcome last night’s 4th quarter.
Please don’t get this torture getting more worse.

Shamrock

May 2nd, 2012
2:19 pm

Maybe the Hawks will rally around Josh’s absence and pull out a win; like the Celtics did in Rondo’s absence.

*snicker*

tom

May 2nd, 2012
2:24 pm

time for TMAC

MattP

May 2nd, 2012
2:25 pm

1st round exit here we come!

hawksfan2012

May 2nd, 2012
2:25 pm

well, we already didnt have al and zaza. no josh for game 3 means a loss but i think we were gonna lose that game anyways. our best shot is to steal game 4.

mountain_jim

May 2nd, 2012
2:26 pm

Maybe the ‘person with knowledge’ was Josh, but not for attribution.

In any case, this is good news compared to the ‘done for season’ type news, even though the Hawks do look done for after that collapse of coaching, leadership, and execution.

hawksfan2012

May 2nd, 2012
2:26 pm

boston wont beat miami.

High-sider

May 2nd, 2012
2:31 pm

SWAT Native

May 2nd, 2012
2:03 pm

@High-Sider: Don’t forget that Jamal Crawford is a Celtic killer, who they never found an answer for. The deep bench was better for the Hawks in the regular season, but they are going to miss JC1 in playoff games like last night.
—————————————————————————

SWAT Native, add it to “the list.” I have on several occasions referred to Jamal Crawford as the “Boston Strangler” on this blog but our recent [and resident] Celtics’ fan, Shamrock, immediately “corrected” and told me that Andrew Toney, [a] former 76ers’ shooting guard, is/was the “original Boston Strangler” along with Albert DeSalvo.

I guess I could refer to Jamal Crawford as “Boston Strangler Part II [or Part III]” in order to pacify Shamrock

BIG DOG

May 2nd, 2012
2:33 pm

Somebody said LD played bench to long, SMH.

You can’t run your starters in the ground, Hawks have the deepest bench in the nba so why would you over play your starters, makes no senese.

Best coach in the NBA Gregg Popovich never run his starters in the game, and also the Bulls coach does the same to that’s why there the 2 best coach in the game today.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

mike

May 2nd, 2012
2:34 pm

i’m still confident that the hawks can pull one out in Boston.. the media is making it seem like the series is 3-1 in the Celtics favor lol..

hawksfan2012

May 2nd, 2012
2:36 pm

mike wilbon ripped the hawks last night. arent analysts supposed to be objective?

Melvin

May 2nd, 2012
2:36 pm

Hawks will have to win at least 1 game in Boston. Lose game 3, then it put pressure on them to win 2 games in a row.

Rod from College Park

May 2nd, 2012
2:39 pm

MsDee,

“AND??? So u mean to tell me we shouldn’t TRY and see for a couple of possessions IF they (the bench) have the the touch going for them 1st?”

Yes that’s what I mean. This is the playoffs. You should always keep one of your best players on the floor, like Doc Rivers does.

Melvin

May 2nd, 2012
2:40 pm

RIP Junior Seau

steve brown

May 2nd, 2012
2:40 pm

GET WELL SOON!! -truly one of the most ignorant statements that I have ever read.

hawk_life

May 2nd, 2012
2:41 pm

I’m hoping this is some kind of psyc game against Boston. He’s been a big part of the team this year, even if he’s overly confident in his jump shots. Josh and Ivan are big with rebounding which we need to do better on.

Big Lou

May 2nd, 2012
2:42 pm

“I do want to ride my starters but I don’t want to wear them out. It’s going to be a long series.” Larry Drew

The way you’re subbing… it won’t be a long series, clown. Pack up and get out of ATL!

hawksfan2012

May 2nd, 2012
2:45 pm

if we can steal one in boston and get zaza back for game 5, i say we win this series.

Big Lou

May 2nd, 2012
2:47 pm

“You can’t run your starters in the ground, Hawks have the deepest bench in the nba so why would you over play your starters, makes no senese.

Best coach in the NBA Gregg Popovich never run his starters in the game, and also the Bulls coach does the same to that’s why there the 2 best coach in the game today.”

That is such an idiotic statement. Have you watched the other playoff games this year? This is the playoffs, not the regular season!

Chicago – Deng is almost in the WHOLE game.
Heat – Lebron is almost in the WHOLE game.
Boston – Rondo/Bradley/Pierce is almost in the WHOLE game.

Pierce was in the WHOLE second half yesterday, and what did he do? He dropped 36 points and grabbed 14 boards.

Nobody is saying play the starters the duration of the game. The point is that you don’t HAVE YOUR WHOLE F!CKING BENCH UNIT OUT AT THE SAME TIME! THAT’S F!CKING STUPID! Especially when you have Pierce, Garnett, and Bradley out for the other team.

kingd92

May 2nd, 2012
2:48 pm

Josh has heart, he will play.

Lineup:
Teague
JJ
T-Mac
Josh
Ivan

Bench:
Pargo
Kirk
Marvin/Vlad/Collins (For Ivan/Josh rest)
Rotation ends at 8 players.

Let’s get one back at Boston.
#FreeTmac

Big Lou

May 2nd, 2012
2:48 pm

“All in all tho, the Hawks should just call it a day and rest..this season was just too brutal for them and many others, for that matter, to handle a 66 game season..way to go!! Proud of how far u guys came with all the injuries and to STILL finish in 4th place (record wise). Take a LONG vacation and heal, U GUYS DESERVE IT!!”

I hope that’s sarcasm. If it’s not, as the great DawgNole and Grandmaster JeJe would say…

Welcome to Looserville.

Michael Cunningham

May 2nd, 2012
2:49 pm

blog updated with quotes.

High-sider

May 2nd, 2012
2:49 pm

Josh Smith’s recent [knee] injury coupled with his playing status listed [graded] as “doubtful” further strengthens my argument/case/point that Jamal Crawford should have been re-signed. If Josh Smith doesn’t play [Friday night in Game 3 vs. the Boston Celtics], the Hawks will have only one quality, legitimate, experienced and proven [playoff] scorer in [a Hawks'] uniform.

Look at all that [potential scoring] pressure that will [or could possibly be] thrust upon Joe Johnson.

Rick Sund and the ASG, this playoff series, if lost, is on you [two] due to bad player/roster moves and management.

kingd92

May 2nd, 2012
2:51 pm

@ Big Lou:

Completely agree man. You have to sprinkle them in with the starters. If casual fans and some of us that have experience with only high school or college basketball can recognize this how can our dumba$$ NBA coach not?

hawksfan2012

May 2nd, 2012
2:52 pm

we lost momentum when coach drew left the bench in for too long.

AtlTodoLaVida

May 2nd, 2012
2:52 pm

Tmac and Stack time.

Section 303

May 2nd, 2012
2:55 pm

Good thing those idiots lost last night. Sure Game 3 will be a breeze without Josh…..

Boston in 5. We have no chance.

Marvin Williams sucks.

kingd92

May 2nd, 2012
2:56 pm

Knowing how clueless LD is I already know the answer to: “We have to make a decision who to insert into the starting lineup,” Drew said.

He’s gonna start Marvin and be content while the rest of us sit here frustrated.

KellieJ

May 2nd, 2012
2:56 pm

First, get well soon Josh and ZaZa we need you!!

SMH!! Atlanta “fans” sure are hard on the “stars”. Joe only came here when we were the worst team in the NBA…and had been for years…he didn’t have to come here and he didn’t have to help bring back excitement and some positive recognition to the Hawks…but he did. The minute we fall in ONE game it’s ALL his fault and he’s the worst superstar in the league..REALLY??!!

I still believe the Hawks will be fine, it’s ONE GAME PEOPLE!! Let’s move on and get ready for the next one! The series is even, it’s now the best of five, it’s FAR from over.
LETS GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS IF YOUR A HAWKS FAN AND YOU HAVEN’T BEEN TO THE HIGHLIGHT FACTORY, CAN YOU PLEASE START SHOWING UP??? I’M SOOOOOOO SICK OF SITTING NEXT TO PEOPLE CHEERING FOR THE OPPONENT!!!!!!!!

Slimjr

May 2nd, 2012
2:59 pm

RETIRE RICK SUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Josh maybe done for this series? Remember hes an unrestricted free agent next year and will get close to 100million…

He’s not going to risk destroying his knee for this organization…Why should he..They treated him like the step child..

45×2=90 [2058]

northcyde

May 2nd, 2012
2:59 pm

O’brien

May 2nd, 2012
10:04 am

northcyde,

History suggests that Rod is right. The problem with this team (when going up against Boston) is our offense (not defense).

These are the points given up to Boston this year (regular season and playoffs, but not counting the game where Doc rested his starters).

79 (L), 88 (L), 74 (L), 87 (L). We are giving up 82 ppg to Boston, but yet we are 0-4 in those 4 games. Where is the offense?

******************

It’s still about the defense O’Brien.

In those games you listed, here is what Boston did in the 4th quarter

Game 1: 29 points on 50% FG ( Hawks scored 25 points on 47% FG ) . . . Boston hadn’t scored over 20 points in any quarter up until that point, but pulled away when Allen and Pietrus sparked the run with 3 point shots.

Game 2: 16 points on 29% FG ( Hawks scored 17, shoot 27% FG ) . . . we lose in OT

Game 3: 21 points on 47% FG ( Hawks scored 18, shoot 35% FG) . . . with the Boston defense fueling their run to get them back in the game . . . we WON this game by the way.

Last night: The Celtics scored 26 points and shot 57% FG in the 4th quarter last night, mainly because their defense fueled their offense. And this is right after the Hawks had held them to 20 points and 27% FG shooting in the 3rd quarter.

So in 3 of the 4 games, the Boston offense got going due to the Hawks not being able to stop them on the other end in transition, or in the half court.

All of this talk about the Hawks getting out and running is fine, but they also have to play defense and rebound the basketball. That’s the only way we’re winning this series.

Defensive rebounding fuels offensive transition opportunities.

As for Jamal Crawford . . last I checked, the Boston defense is much more similar to the 2011 Bulls defense, than it is to the 2011 Orlando defense. And we all know what Jamal did against the 2011 Bulls defense, after they decided that they were going to take him out of the series.

Boston would’ve ( and is ) doing the same thing to our perimeter scorers.

The offense can be better, but it starts with defense. You simply have to get stops.

BIG DOG

May 2nd, 2012
2:59 pm

MC – Please don’t say Marvin is going to starte ? JUST DAM

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

Slimjr

May 2nd, 2012
3:02 pm

Hawks lost when they hired RICK SUND AND LARRY DREW!

45

Agree section 303, this series is ova….Celts in 5.. They have their brooms ready.. Sucks being a Hawks fan..

2058

Scoop

May 2nd, 2012
3:08 pm

@ All the blog people

Relax. We will be fine without Josh for one game. As long as LD doesn’t blow an 11 point lead late in the 3rd then we will win game 3 AND the series. BTW I put all of the blame on LD. Aside from his awful substitution patterns, what in the world was up with our 4th Q offense?????? It seemed like 10 possessions in a row consisted of Ivan Johnson with the ball and the shot clock running low(which would explain his poor shooting performance MC).

A portion of it does go to the players though. It’s been the question everyone has had about the Hawks since they’ve become a playoff team………can they handle the physicality of a playoff series. To be honest, they looked soft last night. All of them, with the exception of maybe Teague and Hinrich. Now, I understand that Boston got away with a lot of contact AND got every call on the other end. But sometimes you have to fight back if the officials aren’t going to call the game fairly. Fight fire with fire. I would have wanted to see somebody knock Paul Pierce on his backside, even if it means getting a flagrant. Obviously you never want to hurt anybody but we needed to send a message that were not going to let them manhandle us AND they did just that last night!

I don’t know if Joe got hurt, or he was tired, but in the 4th but it seemed like anytime he got the ball he would pass it like a hot potato. He needs to demand the ball in the 4th and especially when our offense was struggling like it was.

And Josh…..only 16 points on 21 SHOTS!!!!!!!! R U KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!! No wonder he took himself out of the game. And he was missing badly to. He was lucky he was 4-4 from the FT line or the numbers would be even worse.

Teague is the only guy on our team showing any kind of competitive fire. Enough with the calm and coolness. I want to see anger/fire.

LD is resembling Woodson in a lot of ways. The first adjustment I would have made last night is put Vlad in for some spacing. They are clogging the lane against Joe and having shooters around the perimeter will not only make it easier for Joe but make Bos think twice about their D.

Second, Josh if he is healthy needs to be playing the 5 spot against Bos down the stretch. I’m fine with starting Collins, but we need another shooter to spread the floor.

Finally, play TMAC!!!!!!!! We need a combo of Joe, TMAC, Marvin, and Josh on the floor. This will allow us to switch a lot of things so Pierce/Tebow can’t get those easy mid-range jumpers that he got so easily last game.

Somebody plz get in LD’s ear and relay these adjustments to him as he seems to have been asleep this whole series………

Glenn

May 2nd, 2012
3:11 pm

The way Josh was choking the second half of the second game, tossing moon shots and bricks, my guess his egos hurting more than his knee.

BIG DOG

May 2nd, 2012
3:11 pm

Big Lou – The Most idiotic statement , JUST DAM

What true statement have been made to the game it self, if you think your supposed play your starter 40mins or more a game you are the most idiotic person on this blog, you will have injurys all over the place Josh, Joe and Teague would be in grady Hospital.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

terrell

May 2nd, 2012
3:14 pm

“Im hoping for the best’. lol. Thats ALL your’re doing is hoping.

terrell

May 2nd, 2012
3:18 pm

‘It changes the MATCHUPS’. lmfao. So sick of that damn word.

[...] Check out the original source here. [...]

terrell

May 2nd, 2012
3:24 pm

“Offensively, we’re certainly going to have to do some thingss differently”. Um, like what? Iso Joe? Iso Duck butt? lol. Dumbazz wont play TMac, so I know he wasnt talking about him???

[...] thought — Hawks forward Josh Smith has a sprained left knee and is doubtful for Game 3 in Boston, reports the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.  A person with knowledge of the prognosis for Josh Smith said the Hawks forward is doubtful to [...]

High-sider

May 2nd, 2012
3:30 pm

Correction: “The last time I checked, Jamal Crawford averaged 15.0ppg vs. the Boston Celtics in the 2010-2011 regular season. The Hawks lost by seven [7] points last night to the Boston Celtics. You *add* it up; you do the math.

terrell

May 2nd, 2012
3:31 pm

BIG DOG, Bulls coach didnt look so good without Rose last night. Looked like LD out there trying to adjust to Philly. lol

northcyde

May 2nd, 2012
3:31 pm

If Josh is a little gimpy, no way should he be out on the court for Game 3. Knee injuries are nothing to play around with. Let that knee rest until Sunday, then decide what to do.

In the meantime, Drew should use Game 3 to “experiment”.

His normal reaction to this, would be to start Marvin at the 4 . . . but there is no doubt that Ivan is the one who should get the start now.

Teague – Hinrich – JJ – Ivan – Collins . . . will probably be his lineup.

I would personally like to see this starting lineup:

Teague
JJ
McGrady
Ivan
Collins

Teague and JJ should play 40+ minutes. Everybody else should play according to how productive they are. Guys like Dampier and Vlad may have to be used if foul trouble occurs or if people simply aren’t getting it done.

Fortunately for us, Boston is a jumpshooting team. A very good one at times, but still a jumpshooting team. So it’s not like Boston is going to pound it inside or attack the paint. They’ll still do what they do . . shoot a lot of midrange jumpers, sprinkled in with some 3s.

Drew almost HAS to play T-Mac now, like it or not. Josh is a major facilitator on this team, so we’ll need to replace that at the minimum.

Something tells me though, that Marvin will get the start, driving the fan base into madness. If he does, this may be Marvin’s last stand in ATL. With Smith out, he HAS to perform . . . period.

The ASG isn’t using the amnesty on JJ, unless they completely want to start from scratch, so the most likely target of an amnesty, is Marvin.

dstdeelite

May 2nd, 2012
3:37 pm

Najeh Davenpoop

May 2nd, 2012
3:38 pm

I might be the only one who thinks this way, but I wonder if the Hawks shouldn’t just rest all their starters for Game 3 and come back at full strength in Game 4. They have no chance of winning at Boston, in Rondo’s first game back, without Josh. None. Boston is already going to have the psychological edge with Rondo returning, and without Josh it will just be a layup line for them. Give Joe and Teague a breather, see if one of the bench players (Marvin?) can get going, and then come back for Game 4 at full strength.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 2nd, 2012
3:39 pm

Also, RIP Junior Seau

terrell

May 2nd, 2012
3:39 pm

Here comes Marv. lol

doc

May 2nd, 2012
3:42 pm

doc
May 2nd, 2012
3:39 pm

so sad

great warrior jr seau commited suicide

LinkReport this comment

Rod from College Park

May 2nd, 2012
3:43 pm

northcyde,

“It’s still about the defense O’Brien.

So in 3 of the 4 games, the Boston offense got going due to the Hawks not being able to stop them on the other end in transition, or in the half court.”

As for Jamal Crawford . . last I checked, the Boston defense is much more similar to the 2011 Bulls defense, than it is to the 2011 Orlando defense. And we all know what Jamal did against the 2011 Bulls defense, after they decided that they were going to take him out of the series.”

We are holding Boston to 80.5 ppg this series when they averaged 91.8ppg during the regular season. We are not going to be able to play better defensively than we already have. Even if you add Zaza, you can bet the the Cetics free throw attemps will go up because Zaza is known for fouling.

In case you did not know, guys like KG, Allen, and Pierce will be first ballot hall of famers for a reason. When you see them becoming unstoppable in the 4th quarter or continuing to get to the line in the 3rd and 4th quarter, its because they are superstars, and no one player can stop them. You would not understand that being that your two favorite players are Marvin Williams and Joe Johnson, who fold like foling chairs in the 3rd and 4th quarter against quality teams,

No need to hypothesize about what Jamal could do against the Cetics, the stats are there. Go take a look at them. LOL

Section 303

May 2nd, 2012
3:44 pm

Najeh, I agree. Your thinking is great. The Hawks have no shot on Friday. Zero. I’m not even going to watch (going to Counting Crows at the Tabernacle).

Have the bench players play the entire game. Get beat by about 50 pts. On we go to Sunday night with a rested group and Josh back (though Josh was various levels of awful at the start of last night’s game). Probably the best shot we have at this point.

I think last night’s game is the hardest I have ever taken a Hawks loss. I am just p#ssed. I would have fired Larry Drew when the clock struck zero in the 4th quarter. He shares 90% of the blame. The other 10% goes to Marvin Williams. A complete piece of sh#t that needs to be out of the NBA. At this point, I would play Stackhouse over Marvin.

Larry Drew is a f#cking idiot to say that this is going to be a long series. Is 5 games a long series these days? This thing ended last night.

Sautee

May 2nd, 2012
3:47 pm

WHOA!

Yes, LD makes stupid rotations at times. HOWEVER…

I keep seeing posts about LD having all the second teamers on the court at the same time. News Flash folks. THAT NEVER HAPPENED.

Check the play – by – play. Here’s the link:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=320501001&period=0

The part of the game that everyone is falsely accusing LD of is from the time of our 11 point lead until the Celtics caught up. Here’s how it actually went down:

At 2:51 of the 3rd qtr, Ivan had just fouled Pierce, and LD called a timeout, with the Hawks up 11. On the floor at that time was Ivan (and I’m assuming most of the blog is fine with Ivan over Twin) Josh, Joe, Jeff, and Marvin. That lineup remained until 0:46 when Willie replaced Joe. During that time Boston cut 5 points from the lead. That’s with Joe, Jeff, and Josh ALL on the floor other than the last 0:46 when the only change was Pierce hitting 1 of 2 FT. 66-61 hawks at end of 3rd.

4th qtr begins with Kirk, Josh, Ivan, Marvin and Willie. That’s two starters, y’all, and Ivan who is better than Twin (IMO). At 11:12, T-Mac replaces Josh. Still 66-61. At 10:42 Pierce makes a two, cutting the lead to 3. Next dead ball, at 10:22, Twin replaces Ivan. Still two starters, Kirk and Twin.
This lineup played until LDs next timeout at 9:23, when he put Josh, Jeff, and Joe back in. BTW, we STILL had the lead when the starters came back. Had we executed our offense down the stretch, and stepped up on D (Joe Johnson) we had a decent chance of winning. But we failed to do that.

So how is that “putting the entire second unit at once”?

I realize that folks are upset, but at least keep it honest. LD DID NOT play his bench all at one time.

Once again, perception is not reality.

Rod from College Park

May 2nd, 2012
3:48 pm

We might not be able to get to 70 points for the game Friday without Josh. LOL

Scoop

May 2nd, 2012
3:52 pm

@Rod fcp

I’ll argue we get more points next than any other with Josh!!!! Without his turnovers, poor shot selection, and lack of an offensive post up game, I bet our offense will be more efficient. I am worried, however, about our defense. We need to get physical.

[...] have blown the series with it, they really haven’t. Josh Smith, hurt at the end of Game 2, figures to miss Game 3 but no more, and it would be just like the Hawks to win in Boston on a night when their best player [...]

High-sider

May 2nd, 2012
3:55 pm

“No need to hypothesize about what Jamal could do against the Celtics, the stats are there. Go take a look at them. LOL” – Rod from College Park

LOL & LMAO

doc

May 2nd, 2012
3:56 pm

i am not sure why pundits are ripping the hawks. boston is goid, disciplined and well coached. anytime kg and pp are on the court and their players are grinding playing good d and stayingclose tgey can and will win no matter the competition except the heat who have better stars and cangrind just as well.

patellar injuries hard t evaluate from here. little info except my seeing josh limp off come back and saw him tapping his knee before resumng play. i hoped he and kg had bumped knees. that was wishful thinking when i didnt see jish on the court.

my thoughts? patellar ie knee cap lig injuries hurt like hell and cant be reinforced because it is fundamental to the only action the knee should do that is bend. so dvery bend or stop or fall from a jump hurts like hell. medial or lateral collateral lig sprain would be better. sorry it doesnt sound good and i can only hope it isnt much deeper an injury than they see but what they see is nit a true expression of the total injury.

Melvin

May 2nd, 2012
3:57 pm

Najeh,

I’m slighty in agreement with you and Northcyde. I would much prefer the Hawks to win game 3 and not have the pressure of winning 2 games in a row. However, i think the odds are stack against them in game 3. Rondo first game back and Josh injury doesn’t make this a favorable game to win for the Hawks. But, the pressure is on Boston to win this game so the Hawks should feel loose coming into game 3. If the Hawks lose, I hope they dont get blown out and allow the Celtics to rest their starters.

northcyde

May 2nd, 2012
4:00 pm

LMAO @ the give up mentality on this board right now. Wow.

Josh being out for one game MAY be what this team needs, to wake a few of these players up. It just may FORCE a few people to step up their games. I hope the team isn’t feeling sorry for themselves like the fans are.

And what have we always said about Larry Drew? He coaches better when he has fewer options.

Ivan, in a starting role, is capable of getting a modest double-double ( 13 pts – 10 rebounds ), and he isn’t scared of the moment.

If Josh is out though, “ATL’s Most Hated” must step up to the challenge. He deserves everything the fans are throwing at him right now. So with Josh out, there will be ample opportunity for him to perform.

And once again, Drew must play T-Mac extended minutes. Set aside anything personal, and understand that T-Mac might just save YOUR DAMN JOB.

northcyde

May 2nd, 2012
4:01 pm

@ Sautee . . . the main thing is that he never should’ve taken out JJ in the 3rd. That was his major mistake. Gotta leave him in if Pierce and Garnett are still in.

doc

May 2nd, 2012
4:01 pm

sautee there was a time i think when josh teague kirk and jj were off the court at the same time. eva was wondering why 2 and 5 werent playing. they should have been in there with kg and pp there. not sure but i think it might have been pargo, green, marvin, ivan and twin. sorry twin is not a star
starter.

Nique

May 2nd, 2012
4:02 pm

This is exactly why you can’t choke & loss a game at home to Boston without Rondo & Allen, if we won game 2, we could afford to miss Josh in 3 & potentially take the L, but now if we drop game 3 as well, all the pressure in the world is on us in game 4 to not go down 3-1! So disappointed in last nights game, it just proves that we’re still not there

northcyde

May 2nd, 2012
4:03 pm

Tickets are bought. Will be at Game 5 in ATL on Tuesday.

Series will at least be tied 2 – 2 by then.

tyger

May 2nd, 2012
4:04 pm

Nothing wrong with JSmoove other than…

That as whipping 40 yr old KG put on him…
He realized he blew the game…
Missed long jumper after missed long jumper…
Stupid circus dunk, when we just needed 2…
He’s probably more embarrassed than anything…

That was “Bad Josh” on National TV…
Everything the critics said about him…
He showed…

They said, best thing is for him to hit a couple…
Then he plays for the other team…
Game 1 he couldnt miss – I knew he had fallen in love…
Game 2 he couldnt buy one – and he wouldnt stop…
That’s the problem…a smart player would recognize…adjust

But Josh can be an A-hole, instead he’ll get an attitude…
You cant say issh to me, I’m going to shoot no matter what…
If you dont like it, take me out, trade me, I dont give a issh…
Blah, blah, blah…that’s why he didnt make the All-star team…
Thats why we are 1-1, instead of 2-0…

Yes, Joe stinks too…but Smoove took the reigns long ago…
If only he had played smarter, led by performance…
Driven to the basket, forced the issue in the paint, got to the FT line…

And JJ is no help, that fast break layup sums him up…
The fans didnt do it, the pundits didnt do it, nor the coaches…
He’s timid, he doesnt have “it”, superstars rise…
He beotched out…that one play says “tons” about him…
That 4Q “no show” just emphasized what we know…

Now, as a coach, when you see your two best play like that…
What do you do? Its a pickle, catch 22…but you gotta to coach…
A coach reigns stupidity in, adjusts, plays the mental game…
If you cant do it right, I’ll put somebody else in who will…

Granted choices are limited, but I doubt Stackhouse or TMac…
Miss layups or try circus dunks in “do or die” home playoff games…
Do I sit my “stars” and risk alienating them or do I coach to win?

Well, the answer is easy…
If I dont win, I’m gone, whether you like me or not…

If we just had that attitude…we’d be 2-0 right now…
Instead of looking at 1-3 by Monday

MsDee

May 2nd, 2012
4:04 pm

Hey, this MAY be a blessing in disguise..remember how Teague got his shine when Kirk got hurt last playoffs..well, TMAC, now is your time to dust off that ‘old’ man mentally and bring back that 2001 swagger! We need it like never b4. Dont have to worry about getting pulled since Josh is out!! Game 3, here we come!!

Slimjr

May 2nd, 2012
4:07 pm

Marvin should have never been on that court in the 4th till 3 minutes left in the game..

Do it again Larry up in Boston and watch a blowout occur…..

13-22 against the winners does not look promising at all….

Sautee

May 2nd, 2012
4:08 pm

A comment on my 3:47 post:

While LD didn’t actually play the second team at once, IMO, he did something worse, which was to begin the 4th with Kirk at PG. Thankfully, that only lasted 2:23 until the timeout. And in that time, the Celtics only cut into the lead by 3 points. But IMO, use Pargo there, and let Kirk play the 2. Or better still, keep Jeff out there with his young legs.

LD is certainly fair game for criticism, but after a frustrating loss, it seems that some here lose perspective and see things that never happened. Roger Clemens would say they “misremembered”, lol.

ejh

May 2nd, 2012
4:08 pm

I say this, it is important that Josh and ZsaZsa are healthy for game five. Even if the hawks loose both games in Boston, they still only need to come home and win and go back to boston and win a game 6 which would be highly unlikely but possible. I still believe the Hawks are going to win one of the next two. I think the bench realize they have let the team down and are going to want to come out and prove that they can be a difference maker. Look for green, pargo, McGrady, and Vlad, and Ivan Johnson to finally show up for one of those games I got a feeling it is going to be in game 3, because I think Boston comes in over cofindent in thinking they now have this series won. remember the hawks won game one with rondo. The one thing that rondo does is keep the ball away from Paul Pierece. Pierece will not have 36 points friday. He will more likely have 15 to 20 because rondo will control the ball not pierece. To me this gives the hawks a better chance to win.

Slimjr

May 2nd, 2012
4:09 pm

Larry appears to have personal issues with T-Mac to the point of throwing his team under the Bus?

Is that the kind of coach that will coach a team to an ECF? I say heck no!

CrαZy

May 2nd, 2012
4:10 pm

Before yesterday I really thought we had a good chance to make the conference finals…. Now I think we’ll lose to the Celtics in 6. I think we missed Jamal Crawford’s ability to create shots last night. We just don’t have anyone that can create for themselves against the Celtics when they get motivated on D.

Melvin

May 2nd, 2012
4:10 pm

What game was Tyger watching? Did he not see what happen to the Hawks when Josh was not on the court.

Slimjr

May 2nd, 2012
4:14 pm

If Marvin and several of those guards coming off the bench could hit wide open jumpers like Ray Allen does, I’d say we have a shot..

But do not hold your breath..I sense a major beatdown coming Friday…

Oh the Humanity!

Sautee

May 2nd, 2012
4:20 pm

doc,

Sorry man, but perception is not reality. Kirk, having rested for the last 4:18 of the 3rd, played the entire 4th qtr. Unless the play-by-play got it wrong. But I don’t think so. BTW, Pargo only played for 4 minutes in the 2nd qtr. And that was his entire night.

O'brien

May 2nd, 2012
4:22 pm

Since 2008, the Hawks are 6-16 on the road in the playoffs. And Boston is 30-9 at home. Also, LD is 2-4 on the road.

No matter what the numbers say, I think the Hawks have a chance to get game 4 (when Josh comes back), because we will be playing desperate.

Anyways, with Josh, Al and Zaza out, it will be up to our $20 mil man JJ to step up and lead by example. Can he? Will he? How will be respond when Boston puts Pietrus (the iso-JJ stopper) in, and we are in trouble.

CrαZy

May 2nd, 2012
4:24 pm

with Josh, Al and Zaza out

We lose by 20!!!

Sautee

May 2nd, 2012
4:26 pm

“@ Sautee . . . the main thing is that he never should’ve taken out JJ in the 3rd. That was his major mistake. Gotta leave him in if Pierce and Garnett are still in.” – northcyde

I agree with this. Totally.

Like I said, LD has screwy rotations. But he did NOT play the second team all at once, as several here have accused him.

That said, 5 points of the 11 point lead were when Joe, Jeff, and Josh were all in late in the 3rd. So even if LD had never subbed for them, the Celtics could have done the same.

Much of the blog acts like the Celtics could only score against the second team. Yeah, right.

kuhndog

May 2nd, 2012
4:31 pm

UH OH….this is not the end of the series but the hawks need to handle good defensive pressure better and the whole team has to gel quickly.LD needs to bear some of game 2 loss but so doesn’t the players.You know the Cs are gonna be all over the loss of smoove,just like we should have been with rondo,playoff basketball you gotta love it

doc

May 2nd, 2012
4:32 pm

Enter your comments hereok sub kirk for pargo against kg pierce marquis bradley dooling is a mismatch.

Rod from College Park

May 2nd, 2012
4:32 pm

“Before yesterday I really thought we had a good chance to make the conference finals…. Now I think we’ll lose to the Celtics in 6. I think we missed Jamal Crawford’s ability to create shots last night. We just don’t have anyone that can create for themselves against the Celtics when they get motivated on D.”

Ding!!!!!!

hawksfan2012

May 2nd, 2012
4:37 pm

josh smith needs to play. boston is prone to losing game 3s in their home building.

Sautee

May 2nd, 2012
4:41 pm

doc,

I never said it was a good move on LDs part. But let’s not falsely accuse him of something he didn’t do.

As I said the worst part was having Kirk play PG with that group. And even then LD realized it and called timeout after 2:23, and got Jeff back in. All of this criticism of LD for being slow to react, but in that case, I though he reacted properly.

And, once again, when he got the starters back WE STILL HAD THE LEAD.

Rusty

May 2nd, 2012
4:41 pm

Nortcyde it’s almost comical as you talk about JJ as he really is a star.He is a choker not a star.he is a major obstacle to our offense running smoothly.

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
4:41 pm

ROTFLMAOLOL @ Northcyde calling me a “Fan” of his when this dude spent half an hour the other day typing up an 8 Mile rap featuring thoughts I allegedly was running through my head. Get real, dude.
“Dear JeJe, I wrote you but you still ain’t calling. I left my cell, my pager and my home phone at the bottom. I sent 2 letters back in Autumn, you must not’ve got’em”

LOL @ Grandad suggesting we trade Joe for Amar’e, then backtracking as soon after he saw all the backlash.

I am 10021360247602360236% for signing Jerry Sloan this offseason. Offer Smoove for Millsap/Harris and GET A REAL HEAD COACH HERE (Smoove will NOT resign here unless we give him the max). GET AN @ZZHOLE COACH WHO HOLDS PLAYERS ACCOUNTABLE AND DOESN’T PICK FAVORITES. I would presently sacrifice any of our 3 best players (Joe/Josh/Al) and LD for A REAL HEAD COACH..

CrαZy

May 2nd, 2012
4:42 pm

josh smith needs to play

If he could I’m sure he would. If he doesn’t play it’s because he absolutely can’t help the team by being out there.

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
4:42 pm

STOP COACHING LIKE IT’S FREAKING CHARLOTTE. WE CAN’T AFFORD TO USE 9 OR 10 PLAYERS, ESPECIALLY IF 3 OF THEM HAVE BEEN STRAIGHT UP GARBAGE. LD, YOU HAVE DONE A MEDIOCRE JOB IN GAME 1 AND A TERRIBLE JOB IN GAME 2. YOU CAN SAVE THE SERIES. STOP USING OUR WHOLE DAMN BENCH

If Smoove is out for game 3, Marvin better be ready for the game of his life (I assume he’d start). But I am not expecting much [or anything] for that matter.

LOL @ people claiming we should just tank game 3. Um, HELLO?!?!!?!?!?! We just lost at home to a team without 2 Hall Of Famers, one (Rondo) of which is better than anyone on our team. If we can get ANYTHING out of Marvin, T-Mac, and the bench (which has been AWOL for 95% of the series), we will be fine. Also, Teague just needs to stay aggressive. Got people like Najeh, who I actually think is one of the smarter people on this blog, saying that. SMH

Rod from College Park

May 2nd, 2012
4:43 pm

Sautee,

You are correct, but the problem also is LD had a lineup of COLLINS, MARVIN, Hinrich, TMac, and Ivan. Marvin and Collins can never be on the floor at the same time. You are correct that the lead was only cut to 2 points, but the whole flow and momentum of the game changed. Once Boston gets going, the Hawks freeze up, and that is exactly what happened in the 4th quarter.

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
4:44 pm

Huge props go to Rod who has been spot-on about us missing Jamal so far. The only feasible way to compensate for his absence, as Rod stated, IS TO GIVE T-MAC ALL OF MARVIN’S MINUTES. Marvin SHOULD NOT be playing AT ALL in this series. Play Willie OR Pargo (NOT together) sparingly. We should have a 7 player rotation – maybe 8. /

tyger

May 2nd, 2012
4:44 pm

Horribly coached 2nd half…

No bigger LD fan than me, but I lay this one in his lap…
Up 13 in the 3Q, he ran the starters ragged…
They were literally walking up the court…

Yet, his creativity only extended to Marvin and Green…
And neither clearly had it…TMac is right to be upset…
I’m upset…Hawk Nation is upset..
.
We couldnt score a bucket, couldnt do anything right…
And he sits TMac???? That was just dumb…
And if he lets whatever’s going on between him and TMac…
Cost us this series, then he’s just ignorant and needs to go…

He’s acting like he’s JSmoove and JJs beotch…
They start the game off like they were in Summer league…
Smoove shouldve gotten a quick hook early…
JJ missed a layup like he was scared…

Yet, LD so far up their collective as that he does nada…
Smoove jacks up long jumper after long jumper 8-21….
Think LD had balls to say a word to him…

JJ too timid to lead, yet LD forcing his BS down our throat…
Marvin has nothing, yet TMac and Pargo sit…

TMac and Pargo have been saving our as all year…
Now, in the biggest game of the year, neither see light of day…
While the starters drag as up/down the floor…
TMac had them on their heels and gets pulled…thats BS!!!

Why did you sign Tmac if you’re not going to use him?
This issh is old and stupid…this was a horribly coached game…
You really think Ivan, Marvin and Willie Green going to beat Celtics?

Get the F outta here!!! C’mon man!!!

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
4:47 pm

Took me 15 minutes to type all I want to say.

Has taken about 10 minutes to post [most of] it.

Maybe if someone at AJC cared, they could HELP COMBAT THE BLOG MONSTER, but I know they’re all *so* busy on this offday. MC is probably retweeting some NBA writer as we speak

Sautee

May 2nd, 2012
4:49 pm

Rod,

You are right on the money. I was not defending LDs strategy except for the false accusation of using all second teamers together. Yes, indeed that group lost SOME of the momentum (as I said, 5 points of the lead were already lost late in the 3rd with JT/JS/JJ all there). But mostly, that group gave Boston defensive confidence because they were so inept offensively. To me, mostly because Kirk floundered at PG. It was at that point that Boston’s defense became smothering.

tyger

May 2nd, 2012
4:49 pm

Downside to LD philosophy/hiring…

LD lobbied that he could get more from team…
Believes being positive works better…
Woody too quick to berate…
To a great degree he’s right, but regular season over…

Stop trying to be their friend…
We need you to be a Coach now…
Stick a cattle prod up their as or they wont respond…

This team is not composed that way…
They dont have natural born leaders…
They are quiet, passive, gentlemen…

The Coach has to lead them…

Sautee

May 2nd, 2012
4:52 pm

“This team is not composed that way…”
“They dont have natural born leaders…”
“They are quiet, passive, gentlemen…”

Much like their coach, lol.

[...] rest is here: Atlanta Hawks: Josh Smith doubtful for Game 3 with knee injury – Atlanta Journal Constitution … Share this:No related [...]

Slimjr

May 2nd, 2012
5:05 pm

Free T-Mac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Larry must go………………..

[...] – Atlanta Hawks high-flying forward Josh Smith is doubtful for Friday’s Game 3 against the Celtics in Boston. [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] [...]

Slimjr

May 2nd, 2012
5:18 pm

Best passer and smartest baller played for 5 mins in a crucial pivotal playoff game?

Stupidity rains supreme..This coach is putting his [personal feelings] ahead of the team?

Go back to assisting.. Or go coach a high school squad..

No wonder Woody does not talk to this jackanap…

Not Michael the con and Ham.

May 2nd, 2012
5:18 pm

It sad that this season’s MVP Josh has to miss anything at all. The man has made this season worth something. I hope JJ and Ivan step up in his place. This team has too much talent not to compete in the next two games.

JOHN DREW

IS

WITHOUT A

CLUE!

Al horford is doing his world famous houdini trickchit again. Dude is worthless. We are a much better team with out him. He has never amounted to much in the playoffs(10pts 7 rbs) or All Star game (5pts 3 rbs). Hes laying out again just like he did last summer. Probably somewhere humping Mrs. Camel Toe. We get nothing from this scrub.

Atlanta still needs a point guard and a center. JJ is at small forward where he belongs and Josh is a top 3 powerforward. Teague is a shooting guard and we still dont have a center.

Give the hawks a chance.————-

Fire Sund
Fire Drew
Fire Mike Con & Ham
Fire Al Horford.

Mel

May 2nd, 2012
5:20 pm

Will the 18 million dollar man (Joe Johnson) step up and take over the game, like someone who is making that kind of money.

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
5:25 pm

Al horford is doing his world famous houdini trickchit again. Dude is worthless. We are a much better team with out him. He has never amounted to much in the playoffs(10pts 7 rbs) or All Star game (5pts 3 rbs). Hes laying out again just like he did last summer. Probably somewhere humping Mrs. Camel Toe. We get nothing from this scrub.

Atlanta still needs a point guard and a center. JJ is at small forward where he belongs and Josh is a top 3 powerforward. Teague is a shooting guard and we still dont have a center.

Cosign

Dept. Of Unintended Irony

May 2nd, 2012
5:27 pm

“JOHN DREW

IS

WITHOUT A

CLUE!”

NO wonder we traded him for Nique.

Some of us know

May 2nd, 2012
5:30 pm

[...] Cunningham of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports Josh Smith’s injured knee makes him doubtful for Game 3 in Boston. [...]

Not Michael the con and Ham.

May 2nd, 2012
5:37 pm

Some of us know – Sautee!

Not Michael the con and Ham.

May 2nd, 2012
5:39 pm

Dept of of got me again on D irony…..

Thats
Larry Drew
Making Hawks Fans….

Blue…

Orville Wright

May 2nd, 2012
5:41 pm

Fire Sautee!

Buddy Grizzard

May 2nd, 2012
5:46 pm

“Set aside anything personal, and understand that T-Mac might just save YOUR DAMN JOB.”

Josh’s minutes will go to Marvin and vlad. Ld has no fear of losing his job.

Shooter

May 2nd, 2012
5:52 pm

Someone tell me what T-Mac does well ?

He doesn’t rebound, play defense, hit shots, dribbles too much………

He is way past his prime and just a guy…..

tyger

May 2nd, 2012
6:16 pm

We’ll see what Hawks made of …papier mache my guess..

Excuses at the ready…no Horford, no ZaZa, no Josh…no hope.

Don’t see Doc Rivers rolling over…
No Wilcox, no Oneal, no Rondo, no Allen…no Quit!
Emphasis on KG, Rondo, Pierce, but Doc not hesitant to turn to…

Dooling, Smeitsma, Pietrus, Bradley, Pavlovic and guess what?
They respond, know their roles, play within themselves…

Doc doesnt yank them b/c they miss a shot…
He’s playing to win…he has old dogs…
We’re just outclassed…looking at blowout in Beantown

Wilborn/Kornheiser just roasted Smoove on circus dunk.
Added to the several missed long jumpers and that…
Just sucks the life outta your team… inspires the other team

He lacks the mental acuity to appreciate the challenge before him.

I guess b/c he’s taking heat…he’ll want to get traded this off-season…
So be it, if this is all we can expect year after year…
Then take your talent to Timbuktu…and take JJ with you…

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
6:16 pm

If Sund was offered a deal [for doing nothing], I’m sure LD will be back next year too

Rod from College Park

May 2nd, 2012
6:20 pm

“Someone tell me what T-Mac does well ?”

Everything better than Marvin does. Marvin has played 35 minutes in both playoff games, and TMac has played 20 minutes, yet TMac has scored more points, has more assist, more blocks, been to the freethrow line more, and has only been outrebounded by Marvin by 2 rebounds. TMac also was able to slow down Paul Pierce, while Marvin has been abused everytime he guards him.

Disgusted

May 2nd, 2012
6:26 pm

Glad the Celtics came back last night, could not happen to a more deserving ownership.

Sad about Josh Smith but hopefully he gets a chance to play elsewhere someday. A place where he can win.

Don’t want to take it out on the athletes, but I want the Spirit, or whatever they call themselves now, to not be very good.

I want to see Gearon Jr with egg on his face and that confused puppy look again.

Disgusted

May 2nd, 2012
6:28 pm

And, I want Josh to take care of that knee and not dameage it further.

Glad that Rondo is back, he got a bad deal in game 1, the ref set him up.

Disgusted

May 2nd, 2012
6:29 pm

As a Celts fan, I still think the Hawks have a shot, the Celts have to close these guys out and not let up.

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
6:31 pm

To all you people who incredulously want to just tank Friday’s game and go for game 4, did Boston QUIT last night in the 3rd quarter, down 2 HOFers, down 11 points? No.

Shame on all of you.

If Marvin has one decent game (which for him will be 16 points), it will be Friday night

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
6:35 pm

““Someone tell me what T-Mac does well ?”

Everything better than Marvin does. Marvin has played 35 minutes in both playoff games, and TMac has played 20 minutes, yet TMac has scored more points, has more assist, more blocks, been to the freethrow line more, and has only been outrebounded by Marvin by 2 rebounds. TMac also was able to slow down Paul Pierce, while Marvin has been abused everytime he guards him.”

Only people who can’t see this are Larry Drew and maybe Marvin’s family.

Mike D

May 2nd, 2012
6:42 pm

OH now everybody is on the T Mac bandwagon! Funny somebody need to let LD know whats really good. Tracy could have won the Hawks this game 2 if he coulda played some kind of consistent minutes he could have created some offense for the lack of playmakers on this team.Josh is the second best passer an he is the power forward for the hawks! Man LD MUST BE LOSING HIS MIND RUNNIN THE STARTERS LIKE THAT give my dude T Mac a chance he knows how to play in these type of games a veteran who have won many big playoff games on his shot alone. All Im saying is gotdammit play T Mac

tyger

May 2nd, 2012
6:50 pm

Sautee: Good observations…

Unlike others, my beef with LD is that during that time…
He didnt go deep enough into the bench…
At that time, Marvin, Willie, Hinrich had done nada…
The starters were walking up the floor…

Doc countered with Dooling, Pietrus, Hollins all with fresh legs…
While Pargo, TMac, Stackhouse, Vladi, Dampier sit frozen…
And my point is not that they are better players, but fresh legs…
We were stagnant, could not score, couldnt keep up…

TMac, Stack, Dampier have been there before…
Have fresh legs…if they cant play 5-10 min…
Why are we paying them, this is what they are for…

TMac, Stack have shown repeatedly they can still play…
Not big minutes, we just need a contribution, buy time…
I dont like it, no BIGs and Dampier doesnt play at all…
LD acts like we cant use a 6′11, 260 bruiser at all…

Just stupid…he reverted to Woody and cost us…

I like Ivan, but Ivan is a situational, complimentary player…
Good in spurts…LD has to recognize who’s on and who’s not…
He’s stuck in his 8 man rotation thats not working!

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
6:52 pm

“He’s stuck in his 8 man rotation thats not working!”

More like a 10 man rotation

Mike D

May 2nd, 2012
6:58 pm

Just Jumpers cant do ii by himself…nah without J Smoove its over unless T Mac gets some playing time they beat teams in the regular season by letting Tmac close out games so whats the problem now!

Rod from College Park

May 2nd, 2012
7:08 pm

“OH now everybody is on the T Mac bandwagon! Funny somebody need to let LD know whats really good. Tracy could have won the Hawks this game 2 if he coulda played some kind of consistent minutes he could have created some offense for the lack of playmakers on this team.”

You obviously have not been on this blog regularly. This has been an ongoing thing the whole year, that has been discussed here many times.

drmaryb.(*_*).

May 2nd, 2012
7:15 pm

Genius!

“Prosperity conceals genius – Adversity reveals it.” – author unknown -
________

This adversity is an opportunity for Mr. Drew to shine his noggin; and pull a few rabbits out of his hat. Coach has three days to draw up five plays and, teach them to perfection. Coach has to sell it to the players and, they have to buy it.

More than that, they have to execute for 48 relentless minutes on both ends. Stackhouse, TMac, Vlad, Marvin and Eric is walking through that door. They may pull of one, maybe two wins. Problem is – we need three.

Prayer works.

SG

May 2nd, 2012
7:43 pm

Give T-Mac a chance in the starting 5. I still believe if he wants it he gets it done offensively as long as sharing the ball, shooting the basketball, drawing fouls. Or defensively he knows every kind of move kobe bryant pulls so paul pierce is not a concern for him. he can also defend post-ups.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 2nd, 2012
7:55 pm

“To all you people who incredulously want to just tank Friday’s game and go for game 4, did Boston QUIT last night in the 3rd quarter, down 2 HOFers, down 11 points? No.

Shame on all of you.”

Haha. If the Hawks lose by less than 10 points I’ll publicly apologize. But to be honest, I didn’t think they would win that game even with a healthy Josh. Without a healthy Josh, they have no chance. I think there’s a lot more to be lost (injury-wise) by playing the starters in that game than there is to be gained.

Blast

May 2nd, 2012
7:57 pm

Calm down, folks. Josh is a warrior. He will be out there for game 3.

O'brien

May 2nd, 2012
8:07 pm

Rod,

Also, when Marvin was in the game (in the 4th, if I’m not mistaken), they tried to run the offense through him. Two things happened. 1) He passed the ball like it was a hot potato and 2) He missed his shot.

Najeh,

No way we should ease up for game 3. Its not like we wont have Saturday to recover, so Hawks need to go hard on Friday night, and let the chips fall where they may. If we lose on Friday, we just have to play desperate on Sunday.

LD needs to ride his starters if he has to. Pierce played 44 minutes yesterday. And although JJ did a good job defensively on him in game 1, and played well in the first half yesterday…LD only played Joe 38 minutes.

Walt Frazier

May 2nd, 2012
8:08 pm

If Larry starts Marvin, then that rewarding bad play. Larry may start Marvin because he may not have a choice. Let’s say he starts Marvin and he continues to be a buster, then Larry will yank him quick and insert Ivan. Knowing from past experience-Larry will be out coached and make the dumb move by doing nothing. All that fighting for home court meant nothing. The Hawks will drop the next one.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 2nd, 2012
8:13 pm

Marvin’s D has been really pathetic this series, especially since he is playing a guy (Pierce) who doesn’t have the quickness to exploit Marvin’s poor balance. They don’t have a choice but to play him, since he’s probably the 2nd best healthy PF on the team, but he shouldn’t start. Put T-Mac in the starting lineup and see if he has the juice to offset the loss of Josh for one game.

Mikew109

May 2nd, 2012
8:29 pm

i got faith in hawks through thick n thin thin,still win this series no matter how bad the situations look.

Not So Casual Observer

May 2nd, 2012
8:31 pm

TMac is a dim shadow of his former self and can no longer take a defensive player off the dribble but LD should give him a chance if Josh is out.

The difference in the 2 teams Tuesday was on defense. The Celtics doubled Joe at every opportunity and were intent on taking him out of the game.

The Hawks were being lit up by one player and yet Pierce was consistently open against a straight-up defense from the Hawks with no imagination. The Hawks should study the Celtics “D” from game 2 and use it against Pierce.

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
8:39 pm

People on here want us to tank a PLAYOFF game.

Would Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, or Thunder fans want the same?

No

Loserville

steven a smith

May 2nd, 2012
8:46 pm

Joe Johnson..Joe Johnson….Joe Johnson..need i say more, this guy is a MAJOR SCRUB when you need him most. No respecct for his game…

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
8:54 pm

In 2 months, assuming we don’t win an NBA Championship, we will see a Q&A with Moron Jr or Sund, in which they claim you can’t evaluate this year’s team because there were injuries. You will hear Sund on the radio too saying the same thing. It’s like when the Falcons lose in the 1st round every year and you hear Smitty’s postgame remarks.

SSDY

Man in Black

May 2nd, 2012
8:56 pm

START T-MAC – THIS IS WHY YOU SIGNED HIM – tell him now he’s starting – this is his chance to show how great he is 1 more time.

Grandad

May 2nd, 2012
9:20 pm

Tendonitis = non structural

I`m not gonna try & be doc or Mary Ellen here
-but-
having a son who has undergone seven knee surgeries
-yes-
I said seven.
Plus having coached all those years, not to mention a surgically repaired
[torn ACL] amongst other torn stuff in my own knee.

What worries me, and should worry the Hawks organization:
would be Josh favoring his inj knee by playing before it is strong,
thereby putting undue strain & excess pressure on his ‘`good`’ knee
`tis possible, if not likely, to injure [severely] his ‘`sound`’ knee.

Were it my decision to make;
I would err on the side of caution.

Rev in Tampa

May 2nd, 2012
9:33 pm

I seem to remember last year how LD stupidly gave the second game of the series against Orlando away by enforcing the 2-foul rule against Horford. Just when we were about to commit hari kari the Hawks came out and won in Orlando.

I think the odds are considerably more stacked against the Hawks now, but one thing every one of us on this blog have come to learn the hard way is that the only consistent attribute of this team is that they are unpredictable.

If Josh is able to play the Hawks starting 5 (even with Collins starting!!!!) are better than the Celtics starting 5. They have won 7 of the 8 quarters they have played against them during the playoffs.

The Hawks need to trust each other when the Celtics start playing their 4th quarter ferocious defense. The Hawks panicked and everyone played iso-ball. Every player tried to take the responsibility on their own shoulders when they were having difficulty scoring. I remember numerous stupid shots by JJ. I remember Teague getting close to the goal and throwing up the ball without even drawing iron. I remember Ivan driving into the middle of three celtics (including Bass and Garnett) and shooting a lay-up that was blocked.

If they had simply run the offense, the Celtics defense would not be able to rotate to the extra pass or they would have overplayed and missed assignments. A couple of easy buckets by the Hawks would have stopped the Celtics momentum.

What’s going to happen in game 3 if Josh is out? Marvin and Collins are the rim protectors because in LD’s mind rooks (Ivan) don’t start. I can’t bear to think about it…

CamiloAtlanta

May 2nd, 2012
9:35 pm

Another disappointing season it is.

Grandad

May 2nd, 2012
9:37 pm

*’`For`’*
Walt Frazier … today … 5/2/12 … 11:36 am

I would like to congradulate you sir;
on one of the best, most thoughtful and insightful posts
of which I have had the honor to read on this blog.

I would like to counter;
that Joe is perhaps just as difficult to coach as is Josh.
In his own quiet yet contrary [set in his own] way.

Thanks for the good read.
G-dad

O'brien

May 2nd, 2012
10:03 pm

So muc for winning game 1. Orlando was blown out in game 3 in Orlando. Assuming Orlando loses to Indy, I think SVG will be let go.

Spurs also blow out Utah.

Najeh,

Can Memphis rebound after a terrible choke job in game 1? Do you still want to stick with them as your pick to get to the NBA finals?

maler

May 2nd, 2012
10:22 pm

Hawks, Don’t know if you all watched the Braves tonight, but they provided a great example of heart. Maybe you all can do the same.

Mike D

May 2nd, 2012
10:40 pm

@Rod from College park I been reading dis blog all yr. An I see the love for T Mac but there is still some doubters that just now want to say play Tracy thats the same people that were happy when dudes like Marvin,Willie even Stack was coming of the bench before Tracy at one time.

iamceltic

May 2nd, 2012
11:04 pm

so i guess celtics in five game.

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

May 2nd, 2012
11:12 pm

Rod from College Park

May 2nd, 2012
11:32 pm

Watching the Memphis and Clippers game seeing Nick Young out here balling, and he was available for nothing at the trade deadline. SMH

Melvin

May 2nd, 2012
11:37 pm

Rod,

No the BASG preferred to pay the luxury tax to sign Stack and Diamp then sell one of their 2nd round picks for cash… They could’ve easily traded that pick for Nick Young.

KevinM

May 2nd, 2012
11:37 pm

One game later and the tone has totally changed here.

LD lost that game last night and he should admit it.

Why aren’t we dressing Dampier with guys hurt? Doesn’t make sense.

I saw Marvin make 2 excellent plays last night, but LD loves this guy. He’ll get more minutes than he deserves.

doc

May 2nd, 2012
11:42 pm

gm jeje, there are different levels of bone on bone so it is hard tosay and the term itself is used loosely. for roy it was so bad i read that they were considering cartilage transfer, highly experimental. i guess it would be reasonable to try unless there were some contraindications to it.

as far as roy the decision to do it was devastating as he risked early returns after surgery before which may have ultimately done him in. remember he was back in two weeks to play playoffs so he is a gamer. i respect it if he says he cant play at the risk of not walking.

doc

May 2nd, 2012
11:44 pm

reasonable was the stem cell not cartilage transfer.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 2nd, 2012
11:47 pm

“Can Memphis rebound after a terrible choke job in game 1? Do you still want to stick with them as your pick to get to the NBA finals?”

Haha… I won’t back down from that pick after one game. My instinct says bouncing back from that should be really tough for a non-battle tested team, but Memphis is leading right now and apparently teams that have suffered that kind of crushing defeat early in the playoffs have historically bounced back and advanced pretty far. I still think they match up well with everyone in the West and they will get to the Finals.

doc

May 3rd, 2012
12:02 am

45 what slimj?

[...] Cunningham of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports Josh Smith’s injured knee makes him doubtful for Game 3Article source: [...]

Buddy Grizzard

May 3rd, 2012
12:46 am

Basketball value confirms, Willie Green is the worst player to see court time for the Hawks:

http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2012%20playoffs&mode=full&sortnumber=93&sortorder=DESC&team=ATL

Interestingly, it is the offense that suffers more with Green on the floor than any other player. The player with the most negative defensive impact? Ivan. Hat tip to Bret.

Buddy Grizzard

May 3rd, 2012
12:50 am

In case you missed it, Willie Green posted the worst aggregate +/- for the season for the Hawks:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22011&split=9&team=Hawks

At -75 total for the season, Green was worse than the next closest player (Stack, -4) by a massively huge margin. Collins broke even (0) and all other Hawks posted a positive aggregate +/- for the season. The numbers from basketball value from my previous post show that this trend has continue in the postseason. Willie Green hurts the Hawks more than any other player.

So why isn’t T-Mac playing again? Only Josh, Joe and Teague posted a better +/- for the season. And according to basketball value, McGrady has the best overall net rating of any non-starter for the Hawks.

TMACfan

May 3rd, 2012
1:11 am

#FreeTMAC

#FreeTMAC

#FreeTMAC

#FreeTMAC

#FreeTMAC

#FreeTMAC

#FreeTMAC

#FreeTMAC

[...] Cunningham of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports Josh Smith’s injured knee makes him doubtful for Game 3Article source: [...]

JSS

May 3rd, 2012
6:50 am

It will be interesting to see if they completely shake their Woodson roots. That first half is so important! Let McGrady set the offense if you’re not fast breaking. Then if the Celtics can’t stop it, leave it the heck alone!

Grandad

May 3rd, 2012
7:38 am

Buddy G

When I was coaching;
I found that a far more telling and important (+/-) stat
was the 5 man combinations.

This shows the value of Cap`n kirk to our team.
Our best 5 man combo: [in no particular order]
*Kirk *Joe *Zaza *Josh *Teague

* others who pop up in 5 man combos in descending order
from best to worst with (Josh, Joe, Teague) being in most;
(Kirk & Zaza) being in more than the rest.
1. V-Rad / Horford
2. Marv
3 Ivan
4. Collins
5. Willie Green
6. Pargo / T-Mac
____________________________________________

- To me the anomaly is Marv -
____________________________________________

aggregate (+/-) is always dependent upon the other four
players on the floor simultaneous with player x.

Dawg

May 3rd, 2012
7:53 am

We lose momentum in this series everytime Joe brings the ball up court. He does not have the skills to start an offense.

He bogs every thing down.

BIG DOG

May 3rd, 2012
8:24 am

Coach LD must go with big lineup.

Teague, Joe, Josh, Ivan, Collins

Hawks would win this series.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

BIG DOG

May 3rd, 2012
8:27 am

With out Josh Friday

Teague, Joe, Vlad, Ivan, Collins

Pargo or Hinrich, Green, Tmac, Marvin, Dampier

Hawks wins Game 3.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

BIG DOG

May 3rd, 2012
8:32 am

Joe get the ball more around the basket against Avery in the Paint would eliminate ISO Joe 1 on 1.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

BIG DOG

May 3rd, 2012
8:42 am

All good coaches make the correct adjustment, will LD do what necessary for benefit of the team ? HA

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

terrell

May 3rd, 2012
8:48 am

Thanks BK for drafting that dude with the duck butt, who WASNT even a starter in college, #2 overall. Preciate it..

terrell

May 3rd, 2012
8:49 am

And thank you Woody and LD for continuing to start him.

terrell

May 3rd, 2012
8:50 am

And thanks for giving him an extension Ricky boy. Your’re the greatest.

[...] no structural damage to Smith’s knee, but the Hawks still consider their star forward as being doubtful to suit up for Game 3: A person with knowledge of the prognosis for Josh Smith said the Hawks forward is doubtful to play [...]

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
9:24 am

With no J Smoove on Friday, our frontcourt options are:

Ivan, Collins, and Dampier at 5

Marvin, Vlad, and Ivan at 4

You can easily rotate those 5 guys and have a valid frontcourt. But all those guys have weaknesses of various sorts – Ivan too small, Marvin too weak, Damp to slow, Vlad too many things, Collins slow and can’t hold up. But rotate them, and you have a serviceable Frontcourt. Doc would.

And you still have plenty of options 1-3:

3 – JJ, TMac, Stack (Hinrich in a pinch)

2 – JJ, Hinrich, Green

1 – Teague, Pargo, Hinrich, even Green if you had too.

Been rewatching some of game 2. Observations:

1) The two fastest guys on the court were Teague and Marvin. Teague’s jog was faster than anyone else’s sprint. And I see how coach’s can get intoxicated with Marvin’s athleticism – he can flat out fly getting up and down the court when he wants too. He just all too rarely does anything with it beneficial.

2) Gotta get the ball out of JJ’s hands. Folks need to start moving, cutting, slicing, screening and attacking when the ball touch’s JJ’s hands. Get that ball out of his hands!

We’ve been excoriated on the national media for not doubling Paul Pierce in the game. I guess what they don’t see, if we would have doubled PP in most situations, it would have led to easy baskets for Bradley and Garnett. Our best approach, at least in that game – was straight up D. Gotta credit Paul Pierce – that’s why he’s a 1st ballot HOF’er.

And don’t get me wrong, I like JJ’s game alot. But Paul Pierce is way better than JJ. Not even close especially in what’s needed for playoff basketball.

JJ needs another great scorer to be effective. He’s just not “the man”.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
9:26 am

I think we can steal a game in Boston. It may be Boston who’s too over confident after game 2.

vava74

May 3rd, 2012
9:26 am

Unbelievable… :-D

Rod and mini-Rod trying to convert a loss which happened AFTER Josh first tweaked and then sprained his knee into “we are missing Jamal”.

We are not missing Jamal, we are MISSING:

a) 3 of our 4 main front court guys (PF – C positions since the middle of the 4th quarter of Game 2);

b) A REAL HEAD COACH.

It’s crystal clear that we lost Game 2 exactly where playoff games are won and lost, ON DEFENSE and ON REBOUNDING.

BOSTON was the worst rebounding team in the league and we got out rebounded (-5, being that this differential happened exactly on the second half).

Apart from Josh’s 12 rebounds we had nothing else going on the rebounding department.

We had Marvin with 6 and we all know that any minutes in which Marvin is on the floor in this series are LOST MINUTES since he is giving us NOTHING and LD keeps on playing him.

Also, you cannot go into the playoffs and not have at least one of the main cogs on the floor. WTF is LD doing playing 5 reserves at the same time when we are already missing 2 of our top 6 players in Zaza and Al???

JJ or Smoove must be on the floor at all times AND you need to ride them 40+ minutes if necessary.

Another LD mistake: he needs to get McGrady on the floor with the starters, in particular with JJ to spread the floor and stop teams collapsing.

NO ONE WILL GUARD COLLINS, NOR MARVIN, so it’s always 5 defenders on 3 players. YOU CAN’T WIN GAMES LIKE THIS.

Another blunder:

Many are gripping and chirping about Jamal and saying that Pargo and Green are not giving us what Jamal gave us, clearly forgetting Jamal’s production against CHI after game 1.

WRONG: it’s the rotations and the sets that LD is using that are WRONG.

If you run plays for Green, he will shoot and will shoot at high percentage.

If Green is on the floor, you need to run sets which have him shooting off screens and once he starts to get going he will score in other ways too.

Also, you can and should use Pargo for short stretches with the starters, for instance, with Hinrich and JJ so you have 3 guys capable of handling the rock and let Pargo play as an off guard.

MIX and MATCH

LD is being exposed for what he is: an assistant coach which is waaaaaaay over his head

As for Game 3:

Rest Smoove and HOPE he comes back to normal for Game 4 so we can get the win then and regain home court.

Nonetheless, on Game 3 play hard nosed physical basketball and unleash Ivan – give him 40 minutes (if he does not foul out) and the authority to play his game as if he was playing in Korea.

We need to be fearless in spite of the lack of bodies – JUST SHOW UP AND HIT THEM AS HARD AS POSSIBLE.

HARD FOULS – DIRTY PLAYS – JUST F%%$$YG DO IT. If you lose, you lose, but don’t go down without a fight.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
9:29 am

I know we are building on the Detroit model, the San Antonio model blah, blah, blah, but it’s obvious to me we need a great scorer, who can also play D, to get to the next level. Paul Pierce, as I’ve been saying for awhile now, would have been a great fit on this team.

But Marvin, Hinrich, and a 1st wouldn’t have gotten him here when the Celts were looking at trading everybody, and that’s about all we had to offer really.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
9:33 am

Vava – Yeh, Collins, Ivan, and Dampier ought to be able to deliver some physicality in the paint.

Collins has looked ok to me for what he is, but moving that fast for any length of time has normally led to an injured Collins since he’s been a Hawk.

vava74

May 3rd, 2012
9:34 am

Rod,

Nick Young does not rebound, pass or play any D.

24 minutes: zero rebounds, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks and a ± of -13

Sure, he is talented, but you are so infatuated with offense that you don’t even consider other aspects which are far more important.

In the playoffs, you need rebounding and D to win games and that must come from ALL players on the court.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
9:34 am

I’m just glad our guys sound like they are in battle mode – 7 games etc. They’re not conceding it sounds like, and that’s good.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
9:46 am

It really is time to unleash TMac. I’m not sure what the hold up is. Saving him? For what, the off season? I mean seriously, play the man.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
9:53 am

Najeh, I really like Memphis, and started saying they would be contenders when they were 41-41 a couple of years ago. But It just doesn’t look like they have quite enough firepower to make the Championship round. Close, but not quite. But really good however. The West is just loaded.

The Spurs just dismantled the Jazz. I really thought the Jazz could at least make them work in that series.

Pops is just a great coach.

And Indy has made a good move in starting George Hill at the Point, and having Collison come off the bench. Did Collison get hurt or something? Seems like it’s working out well for them.

I would like to see Orlando win the next game at home. Big Baby’s been playing ok. What happened to Jason Richardson? You talk about a demise. He was a good ball player at one time.

joeygt1

May 3rd, 2012
10:11 am

all the negativity bc the hawks lost one game is unreal.. we are the better team we will win the series against the celtics.. it is a best of seven not of one or two games… when we count the hawks out the always impress us… lets wait til after games 4 til we start makeing assumptions…

drmaryb.(*_*).

May 3rd, 2012
10:58 am

We got needs.

We need 28 points and 12 rebounds from Marvin in game 3. Joe need to step up and score, rebound and, assist.

life time hawk

May 3rd, 2012
10:58 am

To. Slimjr. I hate when ppl are talking out of their a$$ 1st Josh is still under contract next year and how can Boston have their brooms ready when Atlanta won game 1 in order to have brooms out u have to win a series 4 games to none

drmaryb.(*_*).

May 3rd, 2012
10:59 am

Ivan, we need you to play inside and grab 15 boards, 15 points.

drmaryb.(*_*).

May 3rd, 2012
10:59 am

Ivan, we need you to play inside and grab 15 boards, 15 points.

drmaryb.(*_*).

May 3rd, 2012
11:01 am

Really?

I only hit submit, once.

MsDee

May 3rd, 2012
11:05 am

drmary, the blog had to ditto that statement..

MsDee

May 3rd, 2012
11:06 am

It should have dittoed your Marvin needs as well!!

life time hawk

May 3rd, 2012
11:08 am

If ls make good decisions with the rotation we hold the big 3 around 60 points we should win in a close game

DD

May 3rd, 2012
11:19 am

guys we need to inform LD to play t-mac more or else will loose the series.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
11:21 am

I’ve been thinking about how to improve our halfcourt offense, and I would appreciate Grandad’s imput here, but I think the simple give and go, with JJ as as the go, with a well placed screen as JJ heads ot the basket, would be very effective.

We ran a high post, double high post, motion O were our 3 basic sets, but the give and go would seem to be the way to go with JJ involved. Of course with Josh in there, running it through the post, with movement, cuts and screens would be the basic way to go.

I had a great player like JJ once. But on our level (small college) this guy was better than JJ is on his level (NBA). So I really never had the problems like the Hawks have with JJ. This guy would get the ball and either elevate for a high % J, which he shot at over 50%, drive and either dish to the open man if somebody came off him to stop him, or layup if not (or get fouled), or hit a cutter from the high post where he received the ball.

It was really 75% effective if executed properly. You really put pressure on the D to have to make a play.

Oh well, just figuring. Gotta be a better halfcourt O than pound, pound, pound, and then throw up a contested shot as the shot clocks winds down.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
11:33 am

Give and Go example:

JJ is to the left of the basket at the top of the key if your facing the basket. He’s fed the ball as Hinrich and Teague come out a few feet on either side of him. Whichever one is open receives a pass from JJ, and JJ heads to the basket. Collins comes up at the foul line to pick JJ’s defender off. JJ is re-fed the basketball while all this is happening (play takes less than 2 seconds from start to finish). He is now in the lane for 1) a floater 2) tear drop 3) lay up 4) Or if the defense collapses on him from the right side, which is what help D should do, he can drop the ball to Ivan for a layup. 5) If the wall is just too great, he kicks it back out to the Post guy at the top of the key, who usually has a clean jumper, because the D has collapsed on the lane. Or the other guy who is stationed kind of where JJ came from. Tons of variations on this also. You can have the post G on JJ’s left sneak down for a corner 3 as JJ attacks the lane with the ball.

And your bigs are in great rebounding position regardless, as is JJ. And your 2 G’s, 1 is at the top of the key for getting back on D, and the other can be as well, so your ok there.

I could see ATL being a good pick and roll team with JJ and Josh, or even Teague and Josh also.

KevinM

May 3rd, 2012
11:33 am

I can guarantee if Josh isn’t going in Game 3, we see Marvin take his slot earned or not. Excuses aside, its Marvin that needs to blow up and take on some of the responsibility that comes with his role on this team.
T-Mac isn’t going to get any more minutes than he’s been getting all year. 8 games over 25 min, 1 game @ 30 minutes….all year! Don’t even look at Marvin’s numbers….it’s embarrassing IMO.

Its not going to happen folks….Willie, Vlad, Dampier, Ty Hill, Van Exel…all these guys get more minutes than T-Mac. To me, its a huge waste and an acknowledgement that LD isn’t budging from his scheme.
T-Mac knows it isn’t going ot happen either, so he just spends time in the huddle talking with the trainers.

And Al can’t give us 15 mpg in his current condition? Isn’t that better than nothing?

KevinM

May 3rd, 2012
11:36 am

Sorry, I forgot to include Stack….this a.m, the Stews are discussing playing time for T-Mac and they are confused as well. Reminds me of the Teague scenario where 3 guys have to drop off to get an actual shot.

Brian

May 3rd, 2012
11:36 am

Joe Johnson is a good #2 or #3 option. He will never carry a team. Atl is screwed with that contract. He didn’t come to Atl as a charity case he came for +$100 million !!! Smith/Johnson would be nice complements to a true alpha dog but over paying those two leaves no room for an alpha dog paycheck.

Rod from College Park

May 3rd, 2012
11:36 am

Vava,

“Rod and mini-Rod trying to convert a loss which happened AFTER Josh first tweaked and then sprained his knee into “we are missing Jamal”.”

Iv’e been saying this all year. Why act surprised now? We are averaging 81.5ppg in the playoffs. that speaks for itself. It’s no so much Jamal, its the fact that another scorer is needed. I have said that all year, and the playoffs will prove that.

“BOSTON was the worst rebounding team in the league and we got out rebounded (-5, being that this differential happened exactly on the second half).”

Just like I informed your clone northcyde, if you actually think that Josh and Zaza, or Josh and Collins are going to night after night outrebound KG and Bass then you need to brush up on you basketball knowledge. What they did in the regular sesaon means nothing. How many times do you need for me to post that. This is the PLAYOFFS. Totally different game.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
11:39 am

But with Teague being able to get into the lane at will, there should be open shots all over the court, because folks are collapsing on Teague. If Teague had a little better court vision and awareness, with his quicks, he would be elite.

I would send Teague to summer camp with Parker, Nash, or Paul. He doesn’t need to be DRose – Rose gets to beat up in the lane. He may be like Wade – awesome, but career cut short by playing to aggressive in the lane for a little guy.

But Wade’s still going pretty strong. Clear he lost a half step this season however. Still like his game alot.

Rod from College Park

May 3rd, 2012
11:44 am

“Nick Young does not rebound, pass or play any D.

24 minutes: zero rebounds, zero assists, zero steals, zero blocks and a ± of -13

Sure, he is talented, but you are so infatuated with offense that you don’t even consider other aspects which are far more important.

In the playoffs, you need rebounding and D to win games and that must come from ALL players on the court.”

Did it ever occur to you that Nick Young’s role on the team migh not be to rebound and facilitate. When you have a point guard like Chris Paul, you don’t need to have your 2 guard setting up other players. Nick Young had a plus minus of -13, and Chris Paul was -3, so I guess you don’t think that Chris Paul should have been on the floor either (LOL). In the playoffs you don’t need ALL players to rebound and play D. You need all players to do what they do well. I don’t think Steve Kerr, or Vinnie Johnson….. were great rebounders, or great defensive players. You need your players to do what they do well in the playoffs, whatever that is.

julius

May 3rd, 2012
11:49 am

I think Joe johnson shoud give the money back

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
11:50 am

On D, at least to give Collins a breather at C, I would run the Diamond and 1 Zone, with Dampier down low, and Teague shadowing Rondo.

I personally don’t think Boston can beat us shooting J’s. That’s just me. I would make them beat me shooting J’s.

And whoever can get inside of Paul Pierce’s jersey and stay there – Stack or whoever, that’s who I would put on him. I would think Marvin’s length would bother him. But I would be thinking wrong.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
11:58 am

Rod and Vava – Weirdly enough, you are both correct in a sense. You gotta have folks that can put the ball through the hoop, regardless of how good you D is.

But you’ve got to rebound and play D, or your not going very far in the playoffs.

Vava – I think one thing sometimes you and ‘Cyde miss is that you can hide a guy on D, unless your opponent has all good scorers at say the 1-3, as in Young’s case. All you do with Young on D is put him on Tony Allen, since he can’t G Conley or Gay. Then if Tony Allen tries to beat you on O, really that’s what you want.

But Vava – I think we were all so shell shocked by Bibby and Jamal and the matador D and the horrible coaching by LD last season, we just never want to get anywhere near that again. But even Rod said Jamal should be nowhere near the Point on O.

And that’s why it’s all about matchups. Rightly used, a scorer can be invaluable. LD was trying to turn Jamal into something he wasn’t and didn’t even like to do – an all around BB player. Jamal is not. Jamal is a volume scorer, who doesn’t need to lead a team

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
12:09 pm

Vava – But now let’s say JJ was on the Grizzlies, and you had Conley, JJ, and Gay on the court at the same time. There is nowhere to hide Nick Young in that scenario. So then, the only way he sees the court is as a situational 3 guy, or if the game is out of hand, or if there is an injury or something. No way you can use Young there in a normal situation in the playoffs.

And that’s why it’s all about matchups. And good coach’s know how to exploit them, and bad coach’s do not.

Vava – Notice we didn’t get blown out really this season? Jeff Teague playing D at the point was almost the total reason why, even without Horford.

And that’s why we were beasting pretty good with Horford out there. Jeff’s presence alone tightened the D, and kept us from getting blown out. The other teams couldn’t exploit our PG Defensive deficiencies and it changed the game.

I have no idea why LD or some fans couldn’t see what was so obvious.

As you say, infatuation with O maybe.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
12:22 pm

We only had 12 double digit losses this season out of 26 losses. Our worst loss was by 22 @ San Antonio.

Compare that to last season – I have no idea how many 20+ point beat downs we had. And many could have been worse, but we were down so bad in the 3rd, the other team would call off the dogs, and we’d only lose by 20 instead of 38 or something.

So I counted – we had 8 beatdowns of 20+ points last season. We had 4 30+ beat downs.

This season the worst beatdown was 22 pts at San Antonio. None even by 25.

Credit Jeff Teague, and the rest of the Hawks really.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
12:31 pm

I dare say that us getting ZaZa back will change the complexion of this series, if he’s anywhere near healthy, more than the C’s getting Ray Allen back.

ZaZa can tip this thing in our favor really.

Sautee

May 3rd, 2012
12:31 pm

“WTF is LD doing playing 5 reserves at the same time when we are already missing 2 of our top 6 players in Zaza and Al???” – vava74

Vava, this is untrue. Go back and read my 3:47 pm. post yesterday and you’ll see.

northcyde

May 3rd, 2012
12:33 pm

Co-sign Vava 9:26am

The only way we’re winning this series, is if we outwork the Celtics on the boards and on the defensive end. This is NOT a great Celtics team. And this series is far from over. Drew just needs to understand that in the playoffs, your main cogs must be on the court as much as possible. They can be on the court and “rest” at the same time.

When I say “rest”, I mean be on the court, but instead of being the focal point of the offense, have them be facilitators for others. You can also give a player a variety of looks on defense. As much as Boston loves to shoot the jumpshot, I’m surprised that the Hawks haven’t gone to more zone in this series.

*********************

Offensively, one thing about Game 3 is this. If we can effectively defensively rebound the basketball without Josh in the game, Jeff Teague has the potential to have a HUGE offensive game.

I say that because instead of Smith bringing the ball up after a defensive rebound, the guy who gathers up the rebound will probably get it right to Teague, who can then push the ball right down their throats in transition ( ala Spud Webb ). If we can get early and quick offense in that fashion, that may make up some of the offense we’ll lose with Josh gone.

I still would like to see Drew start this lineup

Teague
JJ
T-Mac
Ivan
Collins

Let T-Mac be the “point forward” and see if he can get multiple people easy looks. Drew may have to concede that the same premise that he used to start Hinrich, may have to be used in order to start T-Mac.

McGrady gives you better playmaking and better rebounding than Hinrich. And he has an all-around better offensive game. If defense is an issue, you can always “hide” him a little, if you don’t want him going head up against Pierce. He also gives you a guy who can get his own shot.

It’s strange. In the only appearance the Teague – JJ – McGrady – Smith – Collins lineup has appeared during these playoffs, they outscored Boston 6 – 0 in a 4 minute span.

Expecting T-Mac to play 30 minutes and score 20 points is probably unrealistic. Expecting T-Mac to play 30 minutes and score 10 points and dish out 6 assists to create 24 total points, is probably something that can be achieved.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
12:37 pm

On that offensive set, there are alot of variations obviously.

But the main things are:

If somebody is doubled, somebody is open

And if your in the Lane on O, many times good things happen if you know what your doing.

Rod from College Park

May 3rd, 2012
12:47 pm

SteveW,

“Vava – I think one thing sometimes you and ‘Cyde miss is that you can hide a guy on D, unless your opponent has all good scorers at say the 1-3, as in Young’s case. All you do with Young on D is put him on Tony Allen, since he can’t G Conley or Gay. Then if Tony Allen tries to beat you on O, really that’s what you want.”

Thanks for attempting to give this guy some knowledge. Vava and northcyde are fantasy stats guys. They probably neveer have played the game or coached, so they have no idea that players have different roles and responsibility. Everyones job on a championship team is not to rebound and play great man to man defense (LOL). That is why there is a term called team defense.

Rod from College Park

May 3rd, 2012
12:57 pm

“The only way we’re winning this series, is if we outwork the Celtics on the boards and on the defensive end. This is NOT a great Celtics team. And this series is far from over. Drew just needs to understand that in the playoffs, your main cogs must be on the court as much as possible. They can be on the court and “rest” at the same time.”

LOL. So what are we going to do hold them to 70ppg? We are already holding them to 80ppg. Please explain to me haw we are going to outrebound them. Who is going to do that on a consistent basis?

[...] A person with knowledge of the prognosis for Josh Smith said the Hawks forward is doubtful to play in Game 3 against the [...]

northcyde

May 3rd, 2012
1:11 pm

Sautee . . . here’s the thing about your 12:31 post . . when you look at the personnel on the floor, we actually DID have 5 reserves in the game.

The way our team is constructed, the only legit starters we have on this team are JJ, Smith, and Teague. The issues with this team arise when 2 of those 3 are out of the game. A lot of times during the season, bad things would begin to happen as soon as Teague and JJ/Smith left the game. You could almost tell right out of the gate if the 2nd unit was going to be effective.

If Drew is going to manage this rotation effectively in the playoffs, he CANNOT have two of those guys on the bench at ANY point in this series.

When that 4th quarter started, this is was who was on the floor

Hinrich
Green
Marvin
Ivan
Smith

While Hinrich is technically a “starter”, you have Teague and JJ on the bench. Josh goes to the bench. Now you have THIS lineup on the floor

Hinrich
Green
T-Mac
Marvin
Ivan

Once again, Hinrich is “techincally” the starter in the game, but you have ALL 3 of our main guys on the bench. Celtics only score 2 points, while the Hawks are getting nothing, so Drew changes the lineup again. And here’s what we have on the floor

Hinrich
Green
McGrady
Marvin
Collins

And you STILL have our new “Big 3″ on the bench.

So when people talk about having 5 “bench guys” on the floor, they’re basically right. Just because Collins and Hinrich are “starters”, doesn’t mean that they are “starter quality”.

And in the 1st half, Drew did the same thing . . except for a longer period. Instead of our usual “bench mob” of Pargo -Green – McGrady – Marvin – Ivan . . he sat Ivan and put back in Collins. 5 Bench players.

Fortunately for the Hawks, Pierce happened to be on the bench, and KG didn’t score. LOL . . but that group was still outscored by 1 point.

The fact is that Drew MUST manage this lineup better. At no point in last night’s game, was both Pierce and Garnett out of the game at the same time. And if you consider Bradley part of their “Big 3″ on Tuesday night, Doc had at least 2 of those guys in the game at all times for 45 minutes of that game.

Meanwhile, JJ – Smith – Teague were out of the game TOGETHER for a total of 5 minutes that game . . with 2 of the 3 out of the game for about 9 minutes.

This is the playoffs. You can’t do that crap now. Paul Pierce played the final 33 MINUTES of that game. He didn’t come out of the game from early in the 2nd quarter on. KG played 24 of the final 27 minutes of that game. Bradley, Pierce, and KG played the entire 4th quarter, and scored 24 of Boston’s 26 points.

Drew better quickly learn how to coach in the playoffs. If you have to play JJ, Smith, and Teague the entire 2nd half of games, then so be it. Call a few extra timeouts during the flow of the game, to get them rest.

northcyde

May 3rd, 2012
1:23 pm

Rod . . you’re the fantasy guy, seeing how you want to play one dimensional offensive players. Both Vava and I specifically stress the importance of defense and rebounding, while you want to put unconscious gunners in the game so the team can score. Forget about the other end, in which they could give those points right back.

So YOU’RE the real fantasy guy. Basketball is played on two ends of the court. And if you can effectively defend people, and then rebound their misses, that in itself can create offense. This is why in the NBA, the team who can stop people, and turn those stops into points, will usually win a title. That’s why everybody feared Chicago.

Rod, it’s not about the total points, it’s WHEN you need to get stops.

If you’ve held a team to 60 points going into the 4th quarter, you have to maintain enough defensive intensity to NOT let them break 80. You just can’t all of a sudden give up 25 points in the 4th quarter. That’s when your defense needs to be at its toughest.

The guys that you covet like Nick Young and Jamal Crawford, are not added to great teams for a reason. They’re not added because their games are too one-dimensional. And they’re too streaky of shooters.

But that’s what YOU like. Those streaky shooters who if they’re shot is not on, can shoot you right out of the game . . and make things worse because they’re not stopping anybody.

northcyde

May 3rd, 2012
1:38 pm

Hmmm Rod . . . let’s see

We’re facing the #1 defensive team in the NBA who is 2nd in least points given up . . but you think we can beat them with good offense.

Meanwhile, they finished the season 25th in offensive rating, and are DEAD LAST in offensive rebounding, and #20 in defensive rebounding.

Yet, you think the formula to beating the Celtics is to throw one dimensional scorers at them to win games?

Hawks are #6 in points and 6th in points given up. We are a DEFENSIVE TEAM Rod. We beat teams when we’re able to limit what they do best, just like how Boston wins. While we do need to be better on offense, we also can be better on defense.

Get stops when you NEED to get stops, and the Hawks can beat the Celtics in this series. Drew needs to stop holding people back, and simply let them play their game.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 3rd, 2012
1:39 pm

Judging from MC’s Tweets it looks like a Game 3 return for Josh hasn’t been completely ruled out.

northcyde

May 3rd, 2012
1:42 pm

The next blog update I want to see from MC, is something on this T-Mac issue. Either from Drew’s perspective, or from McGrady’s perspective. I would love to see what T-Mac has to say about why he isn’t playing more. I would love to see him publically expose what is REALLY going on between those two, and why T-Mac can’t get on the floor with our new “Big 3″.

Sautee

May 3rd, 2012
1:45 pm

“So when people talk about having 5 “bench guys” on the floor, they’re basically right. Just because Collins and Hinrich are “starters”, doesn’t mean that they are “starter quality”.” -northcyde

First, I think that’s some pretty good hairsplitting. If someone starts the game, regardless of their talent level, by definition, they are a starter (can you say Royal Ivey?). I didn’t see ANYONE post: “LD had 5 players together, none of whom should be a starter.”

LDs options at this point are SO limited. I agree that one of JT/JJ/JS shouId be on the court at any time. Also I agree that Collins is not truly a starter, but Hinrich is certainly starter quality IMO. So I’ll stand by my argument, but acknowledge that Twin is NOT starter quality. But before the season started, how many thought Zaza was starter quality? Not that Twin will prove us wrong, like Zaza, LOL.

northcyde

May 3rd, 2012
1:47 pm

Drew says if J. Smith out, both M. Williams and T. McGrady get mins at PF. McGrady was with 1s at end of practice. #Hawks 52 mins ago

AT PF?

So Drew is going to go with a Teague – Hinrich – JJ – T-Mac – Collins lineup?

Does that mean that Ivan is in the doghouse again?

LOL @ Drew . . . just play the most talented people you got on this roster, and stop over-thinking. Play McGrady at the 2 and the 3 and put your bangers down on the blocks. Or hell, just start this lineup if you’re going to play Marvin

Teague
JJ
T-Mac
Marvin
Collins

And let Ivan be the main guy off the bench that plays both the 4 and the 5. And DON’T have Teague and JJ out of Game 3 at the same time.

This is the playoffs. Shorten your rotation. Give more minutes to your main guys.

northcyde

May 3rd, 2012
1:58 pm

Sautee . . the bottom line is that Drew simply can’t do that anymore, unless those bench guys are rolling.

In the playoffs, our 2nd unit is not going to be going up against the other team’s full 2nd unit. So it’s important for Drew to play only his most productive bench players, while extending the minutes of key starters.

Hinrich has shot the ball well playing alongside JJ, specifically when the ball is rotated back to him for an open jumpshot. But playing him at PG these days is almost the offensive equivalent of playing Jamal at the point, and expecting defense.

Doc Rivers is a championship level coach. Drew is NOT going to outcoach him. So what Drew needs to do, is keep his most talented players on the floor as much as possible.

OPEN YOUR EYES

May 3rd, 2012
2:06 pm

IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!
IT DOESN’T MATTER THE HAWKS WILL GET BLOWN OUT TOMORROW!!!!

doc

May 3rd, 2012
2:23 pm

sautee, i dont think hinrich was in his “starter” position of two but was at the one with green in the game technically he was not being a starter. also i dont ever consider twin a starter as i didnt consider royal one. the bottom line is, as you know, i like finishers and we have had this conversation before.

none of the guys out there have been finishers this year for the most part as hinrich’s role was diminished when all healthy. it was a weak line up and we went form 11 ahead to 7 behind in the time he put non-finishers in there to play the front line players of boston and finishers that doc went with almost the whole game.

i think ld got complacent and thought his guys could turn it on. we saw they cant late against boston over and over this season and then they had almost lost game one because of his over reliance on twin to “guard” kg. so if you want to say it on tech terms they were a few starters and ignore maybe hinrich was a starter in a different position, ok, only you cant deny we had way too few finishers as we wasted away an 11 point lead at the 3 minute mark in the third. ;-)

Sautee

May 3rd, 2012
2:35 pm

“Hinrich has shot the ball well playing alongside JJ, specifically when the ball is rotated back to him for an open jumpshot. But playing him at PG these days is almost the offensive equivalent of playing Jamal at the point, and expecting defense.” – northcyde

But if you noticed, my defense of LDs using that group included the caveat that Hinrich shouldn’t have been at PG. Don’t get that twisted. I wasn’t defending LDs strategy, just the accusation of not having any starters on the floor.

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

May 3rd, 2012
2:40 pm

BIG IVAN FOR PRESIDENT

Hawks have nothing to lose right now. They have to play small ball and wear the Celtics out. Our depth at the 2 and 3 positions is where we have our only advantage.

JOE JOHNSON ITS TIME TO EARN YOUR MONEY

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
2:43 pm

Jamal – His ideal role is a volume scorer off the bench. Most teams have that type of guy – Miller in Miami, Korver/Brewer in Chicago, Reddick in Orlando etc.

The key is off the bench. Jamal will be playing against lesser players, and making up for scorers (starters) who are on the bench. He won a 6th man playing in that role.

It’s when LD began (mercifully) to see Bibby was losing it pretty badly – he still wouldn’t play Teague, so he tried to turn Jamal into a 1. Who many times, not just at the end of games, was on the floor against starters. It didn’t work.

But let’s face it, Jamal is better than Willie Green. Jamal gets 10m per year contracts. 5 mill this season. Willie is on the vet minimum. There’s a reason for that. Would Jamal help us this year? Yes, of course, if used properly. He would school a guy like Avery Bradley many times. But we would have had to give up Stack, Damp, Green, Vlad, Pargo, and either TMac or Collins to sign him. We only pay those guys 854,000 per, with the League picking up the remainder of the tab. And then we would have had no money with ASG to fill out the remainder of the roster – it would have been DLeague, 2nd round pick types to even come close. And not every DLeaguer is like Ivan.

Sund probably did about the best he could with what he had to work with.

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

May 3rd, 2012
2:46 pm

WE’VE COME THIS FAR MY FAITH

Folks said we were finished when Horford went down but others stepped up. Folks said we were finished when Zaza went down but others stepped up. With Josh going down its no different. Someone has to step up and find a way to win 2 in Boston.

BIG IVAN FOR PRESIDENT

doc

May 3rd, 2012
2:48 pm

sautee, let me put it another way. i looked down at what ld had on the court vs what doc had placed out there and thought then politely said we aint got nothing in there. the response form eva, having seen fewer than 25 games of basketball in her life was, yes, we need 2 and 5 out there quick. we didnt say starters or finishers but said ld has left us crippled in essence. everyone saw it except the guy who counted, ld.

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

May 3rd, 2012
2:49 pm

Excuse my typo in my last post

WE’VE COME THIS FAR BY FAITH

LEANING ON THE LORD

HAWKS IN 6

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
2:50 pm

I’m not so sure that if Josh is out, instead of just resting our starters like Najeh suggested, we don’t go back to our regular season rotation, and give Pargo and Green some major burn. If they’re crazy on the 3 ball like they sometimes are, we push Boston, while resting our starters. If they’re off, well, we’re still resting our starters, and maybe giving these guys a way to get in rythym for the series.

Just a thought.

Sautee

May 3rd, 2012
2:55 pm

“it was a weak line up and we went form 11 ahead to 7 behind in the time he put non-finishers in there to play the front line players of boston and finishers that doc went with almost the whole game. ” – doc

Actually doc, that’s not factual. Go back and look at either my 3:37pm post, or the play-by-play. The first 5 points of the 11 point lead were lost to a lineup of Josh, Joe, Jeff, Ivan and Marvin. Then he put the “subs” in. By the time LD called timeout at 9:37 of the 4th and put the starters back in, we still had a 2 point lead.

We were never down 7 in the 4th until Pierce hit that 3 with about 3:30 to go. Starters (or finishers if you wish) had been back in for over 6 minutes by then. Other than Josh, who left at 4:20 with his knee.

Good point on Kirk not playing his “starter” position, though. And like you, I think of Ivan as more of “starter material” than Twin.

As I posted before, the lineup everyone has complained about (Kirk, Willie, Marvin, T-Mac, Twin) only lost 3 points off the lead in their time on the floor. But the biggest impact was how inept they were offensively, which gave Boston defensive confidence. After their stint, the Celtics D was suddenly smothering. And that was because Kirk was failing at PG. Shoulda left Jeff in with his young legs.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
2:58 pm

So finally we find out ZaZa’s foot wasn’t day to day, a sprain, a strain or anything else.

From MC’s twitter – ZaZa “says he has bone chip in foot. Timetable for 4/13 injury was 4-6 wks. He’s out for GM 4 & 5 and likely 6 (if necess.).”

So best case, ZaZa is back May 10th or so. Since Game 7 if necessary will be May 11th, it’s not looking to good. So we better plan on beating these guys w/o ZaZa in our lineup.

This changes the dynamic – now I’m not trying to steal one in Boston to wait for ZaZa to come back – I gotta just go for the jugular full throttle and try to win this thing with what we got.

If LD can do this – he deserves some kudos in my opinion.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:01 pm

Man, having a rested Rondo just is terrible. If we were going to lose the game anyway, I wish he would have played 40+ minutes in game 2.

northcyde

May 3rd, 2012
3:01 pm

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
2:43 pm

Jamal – His ideal role is a volume scorer off the bench. Most teams have that type of guy – Miller in Miami, Korver/Brewer in Chicago, Reddick in Orlando etc.

***************************

SteveW . . those guys you named are not volume scorers. They’re high 3 point shooting spot up shooters. And God knows that Jamal is not that.

Jamal is a volume scorer. That means that he’s going to take a high volume of shots to get his points. Guys like Korver and Redick don’t normally need 9 shots to score 9 points.

MsDee

May 3rd, 2012
3:01 pm

So EXACTLY when do LD suppose to rest these guys?? I STILL dont understand why we cant play the bench for a COUPLE, AND I DO MEAN A COUPLE AS IN 2 possessions to SEE if they have their “A” game going b4 automatically leaving our main guys out there. Look, we have been playing all season with players dropping like flies, Horford being a key starter out, now it has continued with Zaza and NOW Josh. LD dont need to get all caught up with “hay I GOT to keep Joe out there and oh my, Jeff hasnt rested all quarter, but oh well he got to stay out there but now Josh sat all but one time and we allowed them to score A BASKET or 2″. STOP WORRYING!! Some key facts was mentioned by northcyde about Boston being dead last in rebounding and what not..Look, all we need to do, NO MATTERS WHO ON THE COURT, is BOX OUT, REBOUND, and DRAW FOULS. If those on the floor know we have some key starters resting up, DRAW FOULS BY TAKING IT TO THE HOLE OR SETTING UP IVAN DOWN LOW WITH HIS SHOUT FRAME TO DRAW FOULS. HE SHOULDNT BE TRYING TO SHOOT OVER NOBODY CAUSE HE IS SHORTER THAN KG.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:02 pm

If we could somehow steal this series, getting ZaZa and maybe Al back for Round 2 would be quite a lift for this team.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:03 pm

LD’s just gotta turn TMac loose and let him play.

northcyde

May 3rd, 2012
3:06 pm

And what is all this talk about “rest”. Rest for what? These are the playoffs. We can’t afford to just give away a game. JJ and Teague are not hurt. Ivan isn’t hurt. Marvin isn’t hurt. Tell those guys to step up the way Boston stepped up on Tuesday.

Give Ivan 30+ minutes and let’s see what he can do.

MsDee

May 3rd, 2012
3:06 pm

CORRECTION: DRAW FOULS BY TAKING IT TO THE HOLE OR SETTING UP IVAN DOWN LOW WITH HIS ‘SHORT’ FRAME TO DRAW FOULS. HE SHOULDNT BE TRYING TO SHOOT OVER NOBODY CAUSE HE IS SHORTER THAN KG.

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

May 3rd, 2012
3:06 pm

Willie Green, Stackhouse, Vlad, T-Mack get ready.

Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde

May 3rd, 2012
3:07 pm

“Give Ivan 30+ minutes and let’s see what he can do.” – northcyde

BIG IVAN FOR PRESIDENT

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:08 pm

NC – I know what your saying. But at the same time, Jamal could also take it to the hole if he wanted to, and draw some FT action. I wasn’t trying to say that all those guys games were identical – Miller can actually play some D and rebound if he wants to (but that guy can get hurt walking onto the court), but they all serve kinda the same purpose – score while your starters are sitting, whether it’s by 3 or whatever.

And I’ve seen enough statlines out of Korver and Reddick with some o’fers to know they many times take quite a few shots and score nada, zero, as in 0, no points. And they’re deadbeats in basically every other area of the game.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:09 pm

And Brewer with Chitown is more like Green for us, except he can play a little D.

MsDee

May 3rd, 2012
3:12 pm

northcyde
May 3rd, 2012
3:06 pm

“JJ and Teague are not hurt. Ivan isn’t hurt. Marvin isn’t hurt. Tell those guys to step up the way Boston stepped up on Tuesday.

Give Ivan 30+ minutes and let’s see what he can do.”

Yeah so lets keep it that way..no need to kill these guys like that, KNOWING we dont have what it takes AT THIS PRESENT TIME to win it all. Boston can take that chance for several reasons: 1) They have rings, 2) three Hall of Famers on their team, & 3) Its a strong possibility that this is their final year as the ‘Big Three” so they have many reasons to go all out and burn themselves out cause at the end of the day, “THEY ARE TRUE VETERANS”. They know how to win with or w/o their ‘ideal’ line-up.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:16 pm

NC – All I know is when I had a pure scorer on the bench, when I put him in, I would tell him, speaking of the other teams worst player on the court, “guard him”. It’s a risk, but sometimes your team needs some juice, somebody to just put the ball in the hoop.

Even Pops knows this, and got the ever risky Stephen Jackson back for another run. It just is what it is.

Don’t let your antipathy for Jamal, or a feud with Rod or whatever, ruin your objectivity. Your a brilliant guy, and great with reasoning and stats. But Jamal’s and Jordan Crawfords, and Stephen Jacksons and those guys serve a purpose, or they wouldn’t be playing in the highest level. Reddick, Korver, Young, Mayo, they serve a purpose, even if they’re not all around ball players.

But yes, D and rebounding always win championships – but not alone – you gotta put the ball thru the hoop and not just on transition or cause by your D. You gotta be able to score. You just have to.

D
Rebounding
O
In that order is the way it is taught by good Coach’s. And yes, Wooden and Coach K where my teachers from afar.

doc

May 3rd, 2012
3:17 pm

ms. dee this is the playoffs, you lose you go home. everything is on the line. you rest the next day. old men pp and kg were on the court a full 4.5 minutes more each than jj and josh. in that time they are able to wipe out a deficit in a blink. got it, 4.5 minutes is a lifetime in the playoffs as every possession is one to be treasured and where the celts are masters? no rest for the weary, you just got to suck it up and ride harder.

Sautee

May 3rd, 2012
3:18 pm

“everyone saw it except the guy who counted, ld.”

If LD didn’t see it, why did he call timeout and get JJ/JT/JS back in the game? We’re talking about 2 minutes and 23 seconds. For LD that’s pretty fast reaction time. Particularly since the reserves never lost the lead, though they DID lose some of the momentum. During the early 4th when the lineup you objected to was in, the Celtics had 5 possessions, and scored 3 points. We had 4 possessions, and failed to score. Somehow to much of the blog, that 2:23 stint lost the game. Not the late 3rd when the starters lost 5 points off the lead. Not the poor D by the starters when they came back. Not the lack of execution on offense in the last 9 minutes. But a 2 minute and 23 second stint by a group of “less than starter material” that lost 3 points to the lead in 5 possessions. And STILL had the lead when the starters came back.

Puzzling, to say the least. Maybe the blog needs LD as a scapegoat.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:20 pm

I like Josh and Al, and I have no idea how he would fit on this team, but my 1st move this off season, besides securing Ivan, would be to sign Kevin Garnett. He has the toughness this team is lacking. I think he could back slap Marvin, kick Teague, maybe even slap JJ a little bit, and get these guys the edge they need to go to the next level.

Sometimes it’s not so much talent as attitude. When talent is near equal, attitude can take you over the top.

If we’re building on the Detroit model and everything, tell me that team didn’t have attitude.

DD

May 3rd, 2012
3:22 pm

McGrady was running with the starters in practice today,..so expect a change in l the ineup on friday

Sautee

May 3rd, 2012
3:22 pm

“If we’re building on the Detroit model and everything, tell me that team didn’t have attitude.”

They also had a HOF coach. We do not.

Rod from College Park

May 3rd, 2012
3:22 pm

“We’re facing the #1 defensive team in the NBA who is 2nd in least points given up . . but you think we can beat them with good offense.”

Yes that would be correct. We can beat them with good offense. We can’t beat them running iso Joe plays and having the ball in Ivan Johson’s hands with the shot clock runnung down. The # 1 defensive team in the league gives up on average 91.8 ppg, we are averaging 81.5 in the playoffs and our season average was 96.6. It’s pretty obvious that offense is the problem except to you two clowns.

“Yet, you think the formula to beating the Celtics is to throw one dimensional scorers at them to win games?”

Yeah, it would not hurt is to have a scorer on the floor with Joe and Josh. Who would stop the from scoring, Paul Pierce or Avery Bradley (LOL).

“Hawks are #6 in points and 6th in points given up. We are a DEFENSIVE TEAM Rod. We beat teams when we’re able to limit what they do best, just like how Boston wins. While we do need to be better on offense, we also can be better on defense.

Get stops when you NEED to get stops, and the Hawks can beat the Celtics in this series. Drew needs to stop holding people back, and simply let them play their game.”

In case you have not been watching the games, Paul Pierce and Garnett have been beating us from the perimeter and from the foul line. Pierce, Garnett and Bass have been knocking down jumpshots. Rondo has been the only guy really penetrating. Please help me to understand what we can do better defensively to stop Paul Pierce, and Garnett from hitting midrange jumpshots.

O'brien

May 3rd, 2012
3:25 pm

SteveW,

Too often, Jamal settles for the jumper or fadeaway 3, while trying to draw a foul, instead of driving to the bucket.

Anyways, if the Hawks had the money (and knew what they were doing), it would be good to have 2 legit bench players on the bench (for example, Jamal and Pietrus). When you need offense, give Jamal extended minutes, but when you need defense, put Pietrus in.

The problem for the Hawks is we dont have a legit defensive bench player, and we dont have a legit offensive bench player, mostly due to bad asset management.

We are in the luxury tax, despite 8 guys making the vet min, and one guy on a rookie contract.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:25 pm

Sautee – Now your back to arguing facts again. We don’t want facts, we want our opinions. We are fans (short for fanatics) so don’t bother us with the facts. It’s emotion, whether we like a player/Coach or something – how dare you bog us done with those unsightly facts.

We lost and we have to blame somebody!!

Actually, after looking at some of the game, and studying it out – just give props to Paul Pierce and go home. He played lights out, he played like a champion, our hope for coming back left the game with 4:20 remaining in the person of Josh.

Paul Pierce is a Champion and we are not, that’s really game, set and match, at least for that game.

Now on to game 3

Sautee

May 3rd, 2012
3:27 pm

Anybody else noticing that at times this site won’t reload?

High-sider

May 3rd, 2012
3:28 pm

“Rod, it’s not about the total points, it’s WHEN you need to get stops.

If you’ve held a team to 60 points going into the 4th quarter, you have to maintain enough defensive intensity to NOT let them break 80. You just can’t all of a sudden give up 25 points in the 4th quarter. That’s when your defense needs to be at its toughest.

The guys that you covet like Nick Young and Jamal Crawford, are not added to great teams for a reason. They’re not added because their games are too one-dimensional. And they’re too streaky of shooters.

But that’s what YOU like. Those streaky shooters who if they’re shot is not on, can shoot you right out of the game . . and make things worse because they’re not stopping anybody.” – northcyde

This is coming from a guy [northcyde] that a few days/weeks ago gave Marvin Williams a rating/grade [of] 81/”B-” for his [Marvin Williams'] regular season performance. Are you [bloggers] truly going to continue to listen to him [northcyde] and ask for his “basketball” advice like he’s some sort of expert NBA analyst or basketball “guru”? I can see/read it now. Just like Mike Fratello is/was called the “czar of the telestrator,” you [bloggers] will be calling northcyde the “czar of the AJC Hawks Blog.” [smh]

northcyde does make some good points from time to time but he [northcyde] is to the “AJC Hawks Blog” what Skip Bayless is to “ESPN First Take” – pure sensationalism and shock value.

So, northcyde, I guess Mike Bibby is better than Jamal Crawford and Nick Young since Mike Bibby was acquired and played for the Miami Heat last year; the Heat [team] was a title contender last postseason and is a title contender this postseason.

So, I guess Boris Diaw and Stephen Jackson are infinitely better than Jamal Crawford and Nick Young since both Diaw and Jackson were acquired by the Spurs via midseason trade[s] during this past regular season. The Spurs [team] is a title contender this postseason.

So, I guess Derek Fisher, at this stage in his career, is infinitely better than Jamal Crawford and Nick Young because Derek Fisher was acquired by the OKC Thunder during this past regular season. The OKC Thunder is a title contender this postseason.

So, I guess Ramon Sessions is infinitely better than Jamal Crawford and Nick Young because Ramon Sessions was acquired by the LA Lakers during this past regular season. The LA Lakers are a title contender this postseason; let’s just forget about the fact that the LA Clippers [team] sees itself as a title contender this postseason.

So, I guess Gilbert Arenas, at this stage in his career, is infinitely better than Crawford and Young since Gilbert Arenas was acquired by the Memphis Grizzlies this regular season. The Memphis Grizzlies [team] is considered [by many NBA experts] a very dangerous playoff opponent and a “dark horse” to win the Western Conference crown. The Memphis Grizzlies [team] sees itself as a title contender this postseason.

So, finally, I guess Mike Bibby, Boris Diaw, Stephen Jackson, Derek Fisher, Ramon Sessions and Gilbert Arenas are all better than Monta Ellis because Monta Ellis has yet to be acquired by a title contender thus far in his [Monta Ellis'] career. Monta Ellis was traded to the Bucks this past regular season.

Midseason trades or trades, in general, are based/determined/executed on teams’ needs, players’ contract value[s], teams’ salary cap structure[s], players’ fit on [the] teams, players’ attitudes, timing, availability, injuries to key players, etc.

BIG DOG

May 3rd, 2012
3:29 pm

LD need not cut rotation, but extend the bench as for as playing atleast 11guys, the bench Hawks have are solid and will come thru for LD but he must be patient and let the guys on bench get there rythm, playing them 3mins then bringing them back out is not a rythm, play your bench LD and have confidence in them like all year and the Hawks will win.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:29 pm

OB – Now I agree with that. Coach TT kind of has that luxury with his bench in Chicago. We don’t.

But about Jamal settling, is there anybody on this team that doesn’t settle? I mean, i see guys on other teams getting to the line 10+ times a game – 1 guy! That’ just ain’t happenin’ to guys in the Hawks uni’s – and it’s not just about us not getting calls either.

MsDee

May 3rd, 2012
3:29 pm

@doc

No need to kill these guys like that, KNOWING we dont have what it takes AT THIS PRESENT TIME to win it all. Boston CAN take chances for several reasons: 1) They have rings, 2) three Hall of Famers on their team, & 3) Its a strong possibility that this is their final year as the ‘Big Three” so they have many reasons to go all out and burn themselves out cause at the end of the day, “THEY ARE TRUE VETERANS”. They know how to win with or w/o their ‘ideal’ line-up.

MsDee

May 3rd, 2012
3:32 pm

BIG DOG
May 3rd, 2012
3:29 pm

LD need not cut rotation, but extend the bench as for as playing atleast 11guys, the bench Hawks have are solid and will come thru for LD but he must be patient and let the guys on bench get there rythm, playing them 3mins then bringing them back out is not a rythm, play your bench LD and have confidence in them like all year and the Hawks will win.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

Now THATS what Im talking about u BIG DOG U!!

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:33 pm

I will tell you, LA may regret the day they trade DFish – he’s just what OKC needs, especially with Maynor out (I think he’s still out).

DFish, Perkins, Nazr – Those guys can help lead those other young guys to a Championship. OKC has their hands full with Dallas right now though, and they better not look ahead but take care of the business at hand. They’ve almost lost both those games at Home. Now that would have been ugly.

doc

May 3rd, 2012
3:34 pm

zero is zero. ;-)

minus plus/minus’ were lopsided to the second line players over the “starters”. marvin the worst at -13.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:36 pm

Big Dog – I’m not against giving that a try,especially if our starters get down 8 points or more in the first qtr. Give them some burn, let them get in rythym and see what they can do. I know you cut rotations in the playoffs, but this is the 1st round, and if we’re losing already pretty significantly – these are vets, they may surprise you.

I know they sure surprised me enough in the regular season – Pargo and Green especially.

SteveW

May 3rd, 2012
3:37 pm

“traded” DFish, not “trade” as in the above post.

BIG DOG

May 3rd, 2012
3:37 pm

Hinrich should not starte but only rotate with Pargo for backup role at PG, LD making adjustment moving Joe back SG is a advantage for Hawks, but playing him SF against Pierce is advantage Boston, LD must figure out mismatch for Hawks advantage.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

glw

May 3rd, 2012
3:42 pm

I hate to say it, but if Smoove cant go in Game 3, the best option is to start Marvin at 4. Maybe giving Marvin the start will get him into the flow of the game better.

But LD must come with the right combinations to help cover up the loss of Smoove.

Joe definitely will have to carry the offensive load….but other will have to help for sure. that means TMac defnitely has to play more than 5 minutes. Playing Joe and TMac together will give Joe time to rest a bit both offensively and defensively. While JOe will have to spend some minutes guarding Pierce, when possible we need to use TMac and Marvin on Pierce.

2. This is the perfect time to utitlize Radmonvic, I would insert Radmonovic when I have Tmac and Joe on the floor, adding that shooter that can spread the floor will help against the Celtics tight half court defense.

So your best quality half court offense will be

1 Kirk or Teague
2 Joe
3 Tmac
4 Radmonovic
5 Ivan,or Colllins,or Damp

3. The Hawks, thought shorthanded, must run. Teague will get out and run. one good thing about if Josh is out of the lineup is you dont have to worry about Josh trying to lead the break, get the rebound give it to Teague and let him push. The guys most obvious to run with him will be Marvin and Ivan.

1 Teague
2. Kirk or Joe
3 Joe or TMac
4 Marvin
5. Ivan

MsDee

May 3rd, 2012
3:42 pm

Oh and in case u guys forgot, Pierce, KG, & Rondo all rested darn near 2 weeks b4 playing in this 1st round while Josh, Joe, & Jeff played til the end. So dont try and say our 3 guys should be able to HANG IN THERE like Pierce and KG just b/c we are younger and crap like that. At the end of the day, EVERY TEAM PLAYED 66 FREAKING GAMES AND ALL ARE VERY TIRED, NO MATTER THE AGE. Our guys need there rest as well!

BIG DOG

May 3rd, 2012
3:48 pm

Teague vs Rondo – Teague must attack.

Joe vs Avery – Joe should get ball more in the post against a smaller player in Avery is advantage Hawks.

Vlad vs Pierce – size matter 6′10 Vlad guarding Pierce on the perimeter making more difficult for him is a great explore for coach LD.

Ivan vs Bass – Ivan would eat his launch advantage Hawks

Collins vs KG – Collins keep up the good work and keeping KG out of the paint, Collins size in the paint is the role need to be played.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

Sautee

May 3rd, 2012
3:49 pm

“zero is zero. ;-)

minus plus/minus’ were lopsided to the second line players over the “starters”. marvin the worst at -13.” – doc

Point well taken. Marvin should NEVER have played so many minutes. But back to my point about where the “blame” if one must cast it, lies. The “lesser” group you complained about gave up 3 points in 5 possessions, with 1 turnover. And some valuable momentum.

Once the finishers came in, THEY gave up 23 points in 20 possessions. With 5 turnovers in 9:37.

But this 2:23 minute stint lost the game?

Rod from College Park

May 3rd, 2012
3:56 pm

SteveW,

“NC – I know what your saying. But at the same time, Jamal could also take it to the hole if he wanted to, and draw some FT action.”

This is another convienient point that the two stooges continue to leave out, and is probably the most important thing in the playoffs. Jamal got to the free throw line last year in the playoffs more than anyone on our team not named Josh Smith. He also is a great free throw shooter. so when the play breaks down, and the ball was in his hands, not only could he take his man off the dribble, he could also penetrate, stop and pop, or get to the line better than the 20 million dollar man.

BIG DOG

May 3rd, 2012
3:59 pm

Teague, Joe, Vlad, Ivan, Collins

Pargo and Hinrich, Green, Tmac, Marvin, Dampier

Dampier must Play.

Hawks win game 3 from correct adjustment.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

Sautee

May 3rd, 2012
4:04 pm

“or get to the line better than the 20 million dollar man.”

Not setting the bar very high are you, Rod? ;-)

Michael Cunningham

May 3rd, 2012
4:24 pm

new blog posted. shutting down this thread.

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