Atlanta Hawks: Mixed signals from Al Horford on injury
Perhaps this is to be expected considering this is Al Horford’s first major injury. Or maybe it’s all part of some gamesmanship from Horford and the Hawks, who would rather the Celtics not have too much info about his progress.
But to judge by Horford’s comments over the past few days, he’s conflicted about if and when he can play in the postseason.
Last Thursday Horford told Chris Vivlamore he was “frustrated” by the pace of his progress and that he’s “not where I need to be.” By yesterday, Horford was telling Jeff Schultz that there’s a 70 percent chance he would play against the Celtics, saying: “I don’t know if it’s the smartest thing for me physically but I want to be out there and I feel like it’s realistic.”
Now today Horford told Marc Spears of Yahoo Sports that it’s actually not realistic that he can play in the postseason, saying: “[A]s of right now the way I feel I think I am out for the playoffs.” But he even hedged that statement by suggesting he could play if the Hawks advance past the first round.
(UPDATE: Now Horford tells Spears that not only will he be ready for the playoffs, he plans to play in Thursday’s regular-season finale against Dallas. Like I said, we may not know if Horford will play until he actually takes the court or the season ends and he hasn’t played.)
Maybe all of this uncertainty is why Larry Drew has consistently played down the possibility of Horford returning.
“We are keeping our fingers crossed but we are not totally counting on him,” Drew said yesterday. “We don’t want to have wishful thinking. When they told us about the surgery, that the probability [of return] would be very slim, at that point made our mind up we would not get him back.”
It looks like we may not know for sure until Horford actually takes the court or the playoffs end with Horford still on the sidelines.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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150 comments Add your comment
Nanny
April 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm
Horford needs to suck it up and get out there. He has all offseason to rest his pecs. Without him, we have no chance of advancing.
Rob
April 23rd, 2012
1:44 pm
2nd
Joe for 3
April 23rd, 2012
1:45 pm
Calm down, Nanny. If he can contribute, he will be out there.
Jody
April 23rd, 2012
1:49 pm
Yeah, let’s rush the Hawks all-star big man back out there so he can risk further injury in a series the Hawks are likely to lose anyway. Yeah, that makes alot of sense.
Andy
April 23rd, 2012
1:56 pm
Any update on Zaza?
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
2:00 pm
Well Done!
” … When they told us about the surgery, that the probability [of return] would be very slim, at that point made our mind up we would not get him back.” -Drew-
______________
Then, why wasn’t this man immediately replaced. There were some options out there to back up Zaza. (Kaman?)
@Nanny … Remind me never to leave my kids with this lady. Suck it up?
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
2:05 pm
Poor Management!
This is what happens when you have 8 owners and ‘Nam one of them have ever played professional sports. These ASKG people are clueless.
The GM, has told everybody to “get healthy?” Is that all he got to help build his roster? A mandate? What a perennial loser Sund is. Do your job Sund, or just do us all a favor – and, LEAVE!
Paul
April 23rd, 2012
2:07 pm
You all didn’t want him, so you all can’t start complaining now! Shut up and get it done, no excuses!
It’s either ECF or I want EVERYONE gone.
Steve
April 23rd, 2012
2:13 pm
Did ‘drmaryb’ just say “nam one of them”? I think I’m in love… lol
northcyde
April 23rd, 2012
2:13 pm
The only way I want a less than 100% Horford playing, is if it’s Game 7 of the EC Semis, and the Hawks big men are playing like crap. If you need him to play defense or rebound, then and only then do you play him.
You play him in absolute emergency situations only, if at all. He definitely shouldn’t play if he feels uncomfortable about playing. I could see a guy like Noah or Garnett “accidently” banging that shoulder.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
2:15 pm
No Excuses!
Who is “you all”? Two, three bloggers? Horfaord has more fans than haters. The real question is “management” did nothing to replace him, nor back up Zaza!
So, no excuses points towards management – not us fans! All we wanna’ do is WIN something for ONCE in our life time. Get your facts straight – to the guy named, Paul!
northcyde
April 23rd, 2012
2:18 pm
I tend to agree with drmaryb though. This looks like an injury that simply needs time to heal. So it’s probably in Al’s best interest to stay out. No need of him possibly ruining his career trying to be the Celtics in Round 1.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
2:19 pm
Let’s hope Zaza is “kick paddling” in the pool morning, noon and night on the daily and, getting ultra-sound therapy on his ankle and big toe. Also, walking in a boot when not. If not, that medical team needs to be fired too.
Big Lou
April 23rd, 2012
2:21 pm
If the guy is not 100%, then he should not play. Zaza can carry the load just fine. I am more worried about the coaching. Can LD get a shoulder injury and be out for the playoffs?
atlthrasha404
April 23rd, 2012
2:26 pm
It doesnt matter Horford just rest up. The celtics are going home in the first round anyway. But we will need him in round 2.
Joe for 3
April 23rd, 2012
2:30 pm
Big Lou – Zaza hasn’t played in 5 games. He hasn’t been carrying much of anything.
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
2:31 pm
We just need to focus on beating at least one of the two remaining teams on our schedule.
That will ensure us HC
atlthrasha404
April 23rd, 2012
2:38 pm
Yeah you right TMACfan. Homecourt advantage is vital to our success
Kobie
April 23rd, 2012
2:41 pm
Horford needs to suck it up and play, what? The man had a torn pectoral and any doctor will tell you that is a 3-6 month injury to heal up from. does it make any sense to risk him in the playoffs and then he reinjures himself and might actually be out 6 onths longer. No it does not. Give Horford a break and allow to heal and get well. The Celtics are a very good defensive team and the Hawks have to actually show up against them. Al would help against them but not at the risk of further injury.
O'brien
April 23rd, 2012
2:44 pm
Even with a 80% healthy Horford, there is no guarantee that we beat the Celtics. I think he should take the time off, and heal up properly.
Dawg
April 23rd, 2012
2:45 pm
We need ZaZa more right now. Hortford would potentially hurt himself longterm and his effectiveness would not be much considering he has not played in months.
O'brien
April 23rd, 2012
2:45 pm
Doc,
Culture is a huge problem (I remember when Bibby would shrug off losses nonchalantly). And it starts once again, with ownership.
3 captains later, Hawks still have an issue with leadership.
CHUCK NORRIS
April 23rd, 2012
2:46 pm
Im just ready for them to get knocked out and lets see what they come up with for next season!
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
2:48 pm
Let Boston focus on Al Horford and let Zaza fly under the radar. I like it.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
2:50 pm
FTPB
“Trading JJ is the same as trading Smith or Horford. If you’re not getting close to their talent level back in return, you’re basically going into give up mode.”
From a cap perspective, no it is not. Horford has a manageable contract. Josh, even when he gets re-signed, will have a much more manageable contract than Joe and likely will not decline over the course of the contract. Joe’s contract is going to get worse year by year because he will decline while his salary rises.
Unless some team does a Pau Gasol trade with the Hawks, giving the Hawks an All Star in exchange for crap, there is no way to improve the core without trading one of the medium-sized three. Better to trade the player who is going to give the least bang for the buck over the course of his contract, which is easily Joe.
atlthrasha404
April 23rd, 2012
2:51 pm
We would kill the Celtics and the Bulls with our full lineup healthy. Right now though its looking like a second round exit yet again. Get the hell gone Rick Sund you suck.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
2:53 pm
Again, Horford is gone for the E N T I R E post season.
H e L L O?
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
2:53 pm
“Horford shot around 54% last season and somehow, he has become among the most dispised player on the squad.”
Huh? Despised by who, other than T-S?
Nobody despises Horford. He is the difference between the Hawks being favored against the Celtics vs. being an underdog against them. The perception of him is just coming back to where it needs to be. A year ago, he was perceived as the MVP of this team, the one untradeable and indispensable player this team has, a guy who (according to Bret LaGree at Hoopinion) should have the offense run through him. This year is conclusive proof that this is not the case, so perceptions of him have come closer to reality than they were last year. Doesn’t mean he’s not a very good player, but people are now realizing that he is the 3rd best player on this team.
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
2:54 pm
For the game against the Clippers, Josh is going to have to man up and show ESPN why he is better than Blake Griffin and shut him down.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
2:57 pm
““We are keeping our fingers crossed but we are not totally counting on him,” Drew said yesterday. ”
They shouldn’t be counting on him at all. Go into battle with what you have. If Al returns, it is a Willis Reed moment and probably will pick up the entire team psychologically, but nobody on the team should have the mindset that Al is going to return.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
2:59 pm
I have a feeling that Griffin is going to put up some big numbers, not so much because Josh will do a bad job on him, but more because the Hawks don’t defend the pick and roll well and Collins will be playing center. Josh is going to be overextended on D again and Griffin is going to have open lanes to roll to the basket.
I am also pretty confident that there will be three times as many Clippers fans in the building this year as there were last year. There were a few last year but not that many.
Section 303
April 23rd, 2012
3:03 pm
I think we will know his playoff status on Thursday. If he shows up for the Mavs game in uniform and logs a few minutes, he will probably contribute some in the playoffs. If not, then he probably would not be ready for the postseason.
Of course, that is just my hunch. I have zero inside info on his status at all. It just seems to me that Thursday’s game has been a target date. If he can’t play in that one, I would not hold my breath for any Al sightings against the Celtics.
I hope Al can play, at least a small amount of time. I think it would be a great boost to the team and crowd. But, Zaza’s ability to play is probably of larger concern. He will be playing more minutes and have a larger role.
Rod from College Park
April 23rd, 2012
3:16 pm
At the beginning of the year, we read an article that stated that LD hung up a sign in the locker room that said, “NO EXCUSES”. This was supposed to be the Hawks Mantra for the year. All we see on the blog is people making excuses. Horford is not playing. Get over it. His 10 points and 10 rebounds would not change the outcome of the series against Boston. Zaza brings that and more physicality than Horford does. Zaza is not a better basketball player than Horford, but his physical style fits better with what we need from that position. The last thing we need in this starting lineup is another jump shooter.
prison mike
April 23rd, 2012
3:18 pm
The timing is odd with all these “updates” on his health. Hopefully it is a ploy against the Celtics otherwise it is something that could mess up the team’s chemistry.
tmc
April 23rd, 2012
3:32 pm
this SCREAMS like a move the ASG want to make to win over fans and maybe win a game or two in the playoffs.
When in reality, this Hawks team isn’t going anywhere. And to risk one of your better players and play him to early coming back from injury. May stunt him for the rest of his career.
NOTE TO AL: Do what’s best for you. Listen to your doctors. The idiots running the team will screw you up if you listen to them.
THAT, i am sure of.
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
3:33 pm
HAWKS FANS! THIS MIGHT BE THE MOMENT!
Blake Griffin will dunk on Twin and force him to finally retire!!
Robbie
April 23rd, 2012
3:36 pm
“Doesn’t mean he’s not a very good player, but people are now realizing that he is the 3rd best player on this team.”
If I were building a champioship club, and I had to pick one of Josh, Joe and Al to start on my team, I’d take Al no question. High bball IQ, no off court issues, managable contract, doesn’t piss off fans, doesn’t complain about All Star snubs, great shooting big, rebounds, and defends.
Hawks will regret it if they choose to stick with eniogmatic, turnover prone Smith over him longer term.
Rod from College Park
April 23rd, 2012
3:52 pm
“If I were building a champioship club, and I had to pick one of Josh, Joe and Al to start on my team, I’d take Al no question. High bball IQ, no off court issues, managable contract, doesn’t piss off fans, doesn’t complain about All Star snubs, great shooting big, rebounds, and defends.”
Al is not even on the same level as Joe, and is not better than Josh. Kirk Hinrich supposedly has a high bball IQ, what does that mean. Most of the great players in the league have off the court issues, means nothing in respect to them performing on the court, unless what they are doing could possibly land them in jail. Al (9rpg) does not rebound much better than Josh this year (9rpg), and is not even on the same defensive plane. Al poses no threat defensively, and has no defensive versatility and Josh does. Al shoots mid range jumpers better than Josh, and thats about it offensively. Your selection of Al is based on your dislike of Josh’s game, or his personality, not basketball ability.
atlthrasha404
April 23rd, 2012
3:57 pm
I just believe that when the celtics and the hawks get together. It doesnt matter who is on the floor. This is a intense rivalry. They hate each other. Whoever is out there will give it their all. Al or not that series is a toss up.
Just Joe
April 23rd, 2012
4:13 pm
Josh, ZaZa & Ivan will have to battle with Bass, KG & Steisma. Sounds even to me, if everyone’s healthy.
Shouldn’t need Horford unless we draw the Bulls in round 2. We know all too well how deep that team is: Boozer, Noah, Gibson & Asik.
Dr. Warren
April 23rd, 2012
4:34 pm
Let’s keep Horford safe and rested through this year’s playoffs so he can be at full speed next year and ensure we make it to the 2nd round in 2013. Ah, the suspense.
Melvin
April 23rd, 2012
5:07 pm
Najeh,
My AL for Tyreke trade on the last blog was under the impression that Joe would play SF and Tyreke SG. Tyreke would fit in well b/c he’s a guy that like to take people off the dribble and the Hawks have too many jumpshooters and he like to handle the ball and that will give the Hawks a 3rd ballhandler and a guy who can create his own shot.
Melvin
April 23rd, 2012
5:09 pm
Horford needs to shut it down and allow his injury to heal correctly. No need to rush back and risk re-injurying himself.
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
5:10 pm
There are many things wrong with this picture. The biggest being the dude with the basketball.
http://yfrog.com/z/nxn17kwj
doc
April 23rd, 2012
5:17 pm
O’b we see eye to eye on so many things, so you know I don’t have to salute your comments above. Many here are frustrated so little was done to cover, what to even the man on the street that did the faintest of research, what was a season ending injury. With that, the emphasis should have shifted to what was needed to be done to correct the now more deeply flawed roster, without a true first line big. Then is when you get what might be at worst as true back up or the best you can do. It wasn’t to stick Zaza in there and hope with your fingers crossed that twin can fill the bill, only then to have your hand forced a bit to get Dampier, when twin went down. They lucked out and into Ivan and they still don’t know, for sure, what he can do. They refuse to let him sink or swim in certain situations against the big boys, like yesterday with Zaza now out indefinitely if Ivan is their true back up to now fill the void.
Sorry, stupid BASG, your logic fails even the best of your supporters is my guess now. The rest of us sit bewildered by move after move you make.
No, from the get go, when surgery was necessary, only the remotest of chances were he would be more than a walking wounded at this juncture of the season. Action should have been taken then and there. As a doc, I cringed when I heard the report of his injury not even seeing it and knew the recovery would most likely be as long as an acl or an elbow for Tommy John surgery. Anyone who Googled it found similar information that I found and posted folks to review, if so inclined, to understand the injury and then blame the stupid basg and not Horford as they are want to do now.
Of course, the BASG can dodge the criticism by saying it is up to Horford as they are doing now. Yes, that is chicken azz owner speak for, we let you down and we are playing dodge ball for you stupid enough to not think we are culpable and should have been more proactive. It is Horford’s fault then for not healing quicker and bad luck for us. Of course back then, when it happened there were a lot of fans throwing up the smoke screen of how al was a wimp, to serve their own agenda, which was just as stupid sounding as the BASG for no action since they were fully informed.
That even continues now. It isn’t an act on Horford’s part. He and his is physical therapist know exactly the limitations of his range of motion and the overall lack of strength in the repaired side, to his normal, which by now is much weaker. Remember, he hasn’t been even able to work that side out. He knows how limited he is as he sees the tests done, if they are caring for him properly. It is even more stupid of the BASG to probably allow it since he has a long term contract but after all, it is the stupid BASG we are talking about . I cant expect any more out of them than to play to the lowest common denominator if they are truly asking Al to come back.
O’b, wasn’t it just last week Ricky oy Sund was sayng that there was little chance of a Willis Reid moment where Al walks on the court? Some of you young guys might have to Google that one. heh heh
And yes, I have little respect for the organization formerly known as the asg now known in my eyes and to all as the broken atlanta spirit group… BASG.
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
5:35 pm
Steve is not SteveW BTW
Any trades I propose are based on cap, and not on improving the team. It is based on re-signing:
Ivan
ZaZa
Josh
Teague
And knowing ASG is not going way over the cap, which keeping JJ and Al, and re-signing Josh and the others will require. For Example:
JJ 22mill (average)
Al 12 m
Josh 16 m (maybe more)
ZaZa 8 m per (Kwame got 7 mill. ZaZa is better than Kwame. And teams need C’s. And ZaZa is still pretty young).
Teague 6 m
Ivan 3 m (But we really don’t know)
Marvin 7.5 m
That’s 74.5 mill with those 7 players. Gotta fill 13 roster spots. 1st picks in our range will be getting 1.2 mill to start then go up.
Even if you ditch Marvin somehow, and say ZaZa gets 6 mill per, Teague 5 m, and Josh 14 m, That’s
still 62 mill for 6 players, and it’s unrealistic in it’s re-signing numbers, so in other words, it ain’t happening.
Somebody’s got to go it appears to me cap wise. JJ, Al, Josh. And Josh has asked to be traded. I think unless he agrees to a new deal, he’s gone for a draft pick, or another cheaper piece.
And as long as Josh plays in the post, he’s as effective as all but the elite players in the game. He is a delight to watch down low.
And those back to back blocks in the 3rd yesterday were just sick, as was his low post jam – made some other plays in the sequence also.
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
5:39 pm
Now of course if we can make a trade, improve the team, and get cheaper – obviously I’m all for that. Just trying to be realistic.
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
5:47 pm
If we ditch Marvin, Teague, and ZaZa, and keep JJ, Al, Josh, and Ivan I just don’t think the surrounding players with journeymen, DLeaguers, castoffs, and 1st picks in the low 20’s are good enough for a Championship. We could try it I guess and see.
JJ 22.5 mill (average)
Al 12 m
Josh 16 m
Ivan 3 m
That’s 53.5 m on 4 players. You’d need a couple of Pg’s, a couple of Bigs, 3 Wings, and a couple of others to fill out the roster. Hmmm, not totally impossible.
Still gotta ditch Marvin’s contract to make that work. 7.5 m player option in 2013/14.
I guess we could try JJ at PG again and see what happens in that scenario. I’m not against the JJ at PG try – maybe not fulltime, but he’s got the tools to be good at it.
Jody
April 23rd, 2012
6:09 pm
With Horford’s contract and injury recovery, I highly doubt he gets traded. If anyone gets dealt, I think it is more likely to Joe or Josh.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
6:09 pm
O’brien
April 23rd, 2012
2:45 pm
Doc,
Culture is a huge problem (I remember when Bibby would shrug off losses nonchalantly). And it starts once again, with ownership.
3 captains later, Hawks still have an issue with leadership.
_______________________
“. . . shrug off losses nonchalantly.” That’s what losers do.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
6:13 pm
Rod from College Park
April 23rd, 2012
3:16 pm
At the beginning of the year, we read an article that stated that LD hung up a sign in the locker room that said, “NO EXCUSES”. This was supposed to be the Hawks Mantra for the year. All we see on the blog is people making excuses.
_______________________
Well, it’s not ALL we see on the blog, but there’s certainly way to much of it. And after decades of the SOS, it sure gets old in a hurry.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
6:24 pm
Beetle Juice?
SteveW
What about Kirk’s 8M? Or are you just looking at the guaranteed contracts for now as it relates to the league salary cap?
Last season I would have said try to buy Marvin out of his player option for 2013 – 2014. But, I love Marvin coming off the bench and he is a fine contributor from there. Marvin was a “man beast animal” on Sunday. I wonder whAt got his ire up and fire lit? Did someone steal his girl?
Then, do that again for the post season. Why can’t Marvin play like that daily, then he would be worth his salary of 7.5M. IMO. Can he do it? And, why not?
So many questions, SteveW but, so few answers. Larry Brown reported two weeks ago, he wants an NBA job as GM/Coach. I say, give it to him at least the GM job and he can guide Drew or replace him of necessary.
Why not? What have we got to lose?
____________
Beetle Juice refers to what Starbucks admitted they’ve been using to color their strawberry flavored drinks red. The vegans are irate and in June 2012, Starbucks will cease using this additive to their products. My question is: Why not just use strawberries in strawberry flavored/colored drinks?
Buyer Beware! At Starbucks customer service counter and, at Phillips “RED” Restaurant too. You never know what they’re adding to the food.
LOL
Admiral Snackbar
April 23rd, 2012
6:30 pm
man I hate losing. that being said the loss to NY was a pretty good game and the Hawks can take alot of good from it, just not a W. MARVIN, JT had solid games, JJ and Josh played good mano y mano D on Melo at times. Cut down on turnovers and hit the fts. Go HAWKS.
EmirS.
April 23rd, 2012
6:41 pm
Whats the status on Zaza? I haven’t been following much since we clinched a playoff spot. Will Zaza be ready to go? We have a very realistic chance to beat the Celtics, but we need Zaza to be good to go.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
6:42 pm
AJC is turning into a dump.
BLog monster in full effect, Tony Parker announcement earlier couldn’t even stream
No one monitors this blog
THe AJC Hawks page is rarely updated
THere are trolls here
No username system
Get your !@#$ together already AJC
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
6:42 pm
I would be VERY CAREFUL about playing Horford in Round 1. KG is no dummy. He is a dirty @#@^$bag. He will injure Horford at an angle no ref will see and then play innocent. I would only play Al vs. their 2nd unit. He will get beaten up by Chicago too most likely. Best bet would be to put him in vs. Bosh who is soft as hell (if we played Miami in round 2), but that won’t happen because CHI will be the 1 seed.
Smh
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
6:44 pm
Can’t even get the 2nd part of my freaking post to post on here. THanks a lot AJC
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
6:51 pm
I typed up 7 excellent points about these last 2 games but blog monster got me.
!@#$ this.
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
6:54 pm
Atleast ASG is slightly better than the Saints ownership…
LOLOLOLOL
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
6:54 pm
What we need last 2 games:
4)
Big minutes for Ivan. We need more from him than an occasional
uncontested dunk. He needs to be playing at 110% energy the entire time
he is in.
5) Marvin to play at least half as well as he did yesterday. He MUST MAKE OPEN SHOTS.
6)
Something out of Kirk. WTF has he done these last 2 months? We need
either superb defense or good shooting or both from him
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
6:55 pm
Atleast ASG is slightly better than the Saints ownership…
LOLOLOLOL
*****************
If ASG cheated, it still wouldn’t get a championship, so no – they are not better than Saints ownership
Michael Cunningham
April 23rd, 2012
6:56 pm
blog updates with Horford changing story again and now saying he will play Thursday vs. Dallas.
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
6:57 pm
Horford changes mind again says he will return to action 4/26 vs DAL
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
6:57 pm
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE FIX THIS DAMN BLOG MONSTER
WHY AM I UNABLE TO POST ON A FREAKING BLOG??????????????????????????????????????
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
6:57 pm
Al Horford changes mind telling Yahoo! he will return to action in limited fashion 4/26 vs DAL after doc meeting. The Hawks forward-center told Y! Sports in the morning he didn’t expect to return from the postseason due to pectoral injury suffered earlier this season. But doctor told him some pectoral weakness is normal and not to be fearful of it, which led Horford to changing his mind and becoming more confident for return. He will play about 15 minutes per game in 1st round.
Mark J Spears of YAHOO SPORTS
jeppz23
April 23rd, 2012
7:01 pm
WELCOME BACK AL. 15 minutes a game is great!
Rod from College Park
April 23rd, 2012
7:04 pm
Whoopee Horford will play. Now we will surely beat Boston. LOL
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
7:04 pm
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
6:24 pm
Last season I would have said try to buy Marvin out of his player option for 2013 – 2014. But, I love Marvin coming off the bench and he is a fine contributor from there. Marvin was a “man beast animal” on Sunday. I wonder whAt got his ire up and fire lit? Did someone steal his girl?
Then, do that again for the post season. Why can’t Marvin play like that daily, then he would be worth his salary of 7.5M. IMO. Can he do it? And, why not?
So many questions, SteveW but, so few answers. Larry Brown reported two weeks ago, he wants an NBA job as GM/Coach. I say, give it to him at least the GM job and he can guide Drew or replace him of necessary.
Why not? What have we got to lose?
________________________
I’ve wondered the same thing about Marvin for a couple of years now. He’s got the physical tools (despite the duck waddle) but he just can’t seem to put them together more than a time or two each season.
As far as Larry Brown, he just took over the SMU basketball program so I don’t believe he’s available.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
7:10 pm
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
6:57 pm
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE FIX THIS DAMN BLOG MONSTER
WHY AM I UNABLE TO POST ON A FREAKING BLOG??????????????????????????????????????
______________________
Of all the criticism leveled at AJC, this likely is the most valid. I’ve had it happen to me too many times, although I always copy my comment before submitting. What’s infuriating is when you know your post contains NO “trigger words,” but it still just sits in purgatory. Do they not have an IT dept?!
I’m always amazed too that the writers largely ignore requests to address the issues.
Small-town operation in a big city.
Rod from College Park
April 23rd, 2012
7:13 pm
“I’ve wondered the same thing about Marvin for a couple of years now. He’s got the physical tools (despite the duck waddle) but he just can’t seem to put them together more than a time or two each season.”
Marvin is like the tin man, he has no heart. All the physical tools in the world can’t make up for that. Plus he is easily one of the clumsiest professional basketball players I have ever seen in my life. No heart, clumsiness and his nice guy personality hold him back. He needs to have something or someone make him mad before every game, so that he will come on the floor aggressive.
WxJoe
April 23rd, 2012
7:30 pm
Enter your comments here
Reggie
April 23rd, 2012
7:51 pm
We need Al Horford back for the playoffs but not to shoot 10-12 times a game…We need about 15 mins of rebounding and defense…thats all
prison mike
April 23rd, 2012
7:56 pm
Good call myself and others, the docs cleared him a few weeks ago. No self respecting doctor would allow their patient risk of injury if they felt he wasn’t ready or fully healed for rehab.
Now Al has to stop being a pussee and play through the pain.
“Nothing easy… nothing easee… we are going to game 7 baby”
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
8:10 pm
I always copy my posts beforehand. I actually emailed myself the post but it is BS my best ish never goes thru.
DawgNole, wish we had gotten Tony Parker!
Jungle Jack
April 23rd, 2012
8:16 pm
Hello,
If it was Horford’s Knee, I would be far more understanding of the concern about rushing him back too quickly. While there is a possibility his Pectoral Injury could be made worse, the chances are relatively low. Such a rare injury for an NBA Player. I am far more concerned about his stamina, jumper, etc, than him exacerbating his current injury.
Robbie
April 23rd, 2012
8:18 pm
“Al is not even on the same level as Joe, and is not better than Josh. Kirk Hinrich supposedly has a high bball IQ, what does that mean. Most of the great players in the league have off the court issues, means nothing in respect to them performing on the court, unless what they are doing could possibly land them in jail. Al (9rpg) does not rebound much better than Josh this year (9rpg), and is not even on the same defensive plane. Al poses no threat defensively, and has no defensive versatility and Josh does. Al shoots mid range jumpers better than Josh, and thats about it offensively. Your selection of Al is based on your dislike of Josh’s game, or his personality, not basketball ability.”
False, it’s about the entire package. None of you knows what to expect from Josh on a given night. his numbers aren’t up acrcoss the board like many would like you to believe; they are actually DOWN. he only getting more touches, and he’s still not in 20-10 territory. But the reason they are winning is because the depth is light years ahead of where it was last season. Josh will never lift a Finals trophy, you know it and so do I. Players like him do not win trophies unless they get around tougher coaches and their roles are minimized. But players like him do not LEAD teams to championships, and that’s what should be a goal here.
Robbie
April 23rd, 2012
8:23 pm
“We need Al Horford back for the playoffs but not to shoot 10-12 times a game…We need about 15 mins of rebounding and defense…thats all”
Huh? He’s the best shooter on the team, you should WANT him to shoot more.
Player A shoots 55%
Player B shoots 45%
Who has a better chance of making their shot?
This is hilarious.
Just like the Lakers won’t win anything unless they give their HIGH PCT players (Bynum, Gasol) more shots than Kobe.
Rev in Tampa
April 23rd, 2012
8:29 pm
doc,
Good post earlier today, but it was too long. F-U.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
8:30 pm
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
8:10 pm
I always copy my posts beforehand. I actually emailed myself the post but it is BS my best ish never goes thru.
DawgNole, wish we had gotten Tony Parker!
______________________
Yeah, I just saw where Parker’s going with the Bruins. Would’ve been a huge boost for UGA BB, which sure could use it.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
8:31 pm
Larry Brown!
“As far as Larry Brown, he just took over the SMU basketball program so I don’t believe he’s available.” – DawgNole-
__________
Yeah my Dawg! When he was offered that position @ SMU, he didn’t accept it right away. That was when he made the comment about his preference to return to the NBA in a GM/Coach’s role as he as held that desire while, he was in Detroit. Nothing was available in the NBA apparently, so he did take that SMU job. But he did open that door.
The problem in Detroit, was he and Joe Dumars were battering rams over the roster changes that je wanted but, Dumars refused. Joe would not give him the players he needed to play his style.
Another lost opportunity for the ASKG to move towards an elite staff member. These owners love operating on the cheap and mediocrity.
I know Larry Brown wears on the nerves, but there is no denying he is a master at his craft and a winner!
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
8:35 pm
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
8:31 pm
Another lost opportunity for the ASKG to move towards an elite staff member. These owners love operating on the cheap and mediocrity.
____________________________
And when you “love operating on the cheap and mediocrity,” you get the level of success achieved by ATL pro teams.
Astro Joe
April 23rd, 2012
8:45 pm
Najeh, you must be doing some serious scrolling if you don’t think that Horford’s “favorable ratings” haven’t tanked in the past 12 months.
Doc, still think that my theory that the Hawks PR machine provides misinformation when it comes to the expected return of players from major injuries? If Al shows up in game 66, he will join a few others who have mysteriously healed before the projected timeframe. And I don’t blame them (if they are fibbing). Why tell the world the exact date and time of a player’s expected return? To increase home attendance?
Melvin, I would pull the trigger on your suggested trade for Tyreke and Thompson but only after first offering your boy Josh an extension. If he is truly ready to bolt, trading Horford 12 months before that happens seems pretty silly. Sund needs to test Josh’s intentions this summer, so the TEAM isn’t caught in a soap opera during the season?
The resident doctors will surely correct me, but I assume that Horford only gets to return once he gets medical clearance from the team physicians. I am beginning to get comfortable with the idea of him giving 12-18 minutes/game off the bench. If he is in good enough condition to play solid pick and roll defense, that would be a tremendous plus against both Rondo and Rose. Horford at 75-80% should do a better job of “getting in the way” than Collins or Dampier at 100%.
BTW, does anyone know which playoff team Rasheed Wallace is playing for next week?
cp
April 23rd, 2012
8:50 pm
I don’t really understand all the criticism for Horford. I can understand being disappointed at how soft he played at times last year but some of you guys act like he is Sheldon Williams or something.
As great as Larry Brown is as a coach, you don’t want him as your GM. He was always in love with a player one week and was ready to trade him the next. Pretty much how many on this blog is game by game.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
8:51 pm
Metta World Peace!
Ha Ha! Where is the DUI guy for this one?
Ron Artest does not deserve that self imposed name. This guy has come unglued once again and, tried to decapitate one of the nicest and, most loved guy in the world. James Harden.
This story is so big, MSNBC The Ed Show is running it tonight on a political news network. SMH
Aye Ronnie! Give The New Orlean Saints a call, if you wanna’ play “Bounty, Rouge, Bush – League Football”. I’m sure they can find a spot in their player rotation for a guy like you. What a certifiable nut job this guy is.
cp
April 23rd, 2012
8:55 pm
That should have been. I don’t really understand all the criticism for Horford but can see being disappointed at how soft he played at times last season but dude isn’t Sheldon Williams or Solo Jones out there.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
9:10 pm
I wonder what LB’s motivation is to coach is? A return to College might be good for him. He seemed to flame out with his last 2 NBA teams. As the only coach with a College AND NBA ring, I wonder what left he is trying to accomplish in his career. Sad things were so miserable for him in NY and CHA.
I remember his brother Herb was an assistant here for years and one game Larry Brown was behind our bench (I think?) and David Aldridge ( think?) reported he would be a candidate to be a coach for us. Does anyone here remember this? Big Ray or northcyde maybe?
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
9:15 pm
“I’ve wondered the same thing about Marvin for a couple of years now. He’s got the physical tools (despite the duck waddle) but he just can’t seem to put them together more than a time or two each season.”
Marvin has 0 body strength. He cannot defend in the post (Melo punked his azz yesterday). He lands awkwardly every time in the air and because of his lack of strength, he finishes at the rim at an alarmingly horrendous rate
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
9:16 pm
Rebounding!
““We need Al Horford back for the playoffs but not to shoot 10-12 times a game…We need about 15 mins of rebounding and defense…thats all” – Robbie -
__________
Ha Ha! That’s how he ripped his pectoralis off his shoulder joint the first time! Trying to rebound with Hibbert.
Horford will play so far from the paint this time, you’ll have to close one eye to see him from the paint. LOL
Just last week, Horford said he couldn’t hold his arm above his head. What has changed? I applaud Al for missing the game and wanting to rejoin his team but, I don’t want him to re-injure himself. I’m scared for him to play right now, let Ivan get those boards, put backs and hustle plays, taking charges and steals. Ivan does a lot for us in the paint and, he loves it.
doc
April 23rd, 2012
9:29 pm
rev f u too bro
nothin but love
i_am_soulstar
April 23rd, 2012
9:33 pm
No comment. Just waiting to see what happens Thursday, or during Game 1.
Hawks forever.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
9:37 pm
Need T-Mac, Willie, and Pargo to get major minutes these next 2 games.
Need these 3 cats (and Ivan) feeling really good about themselves going into the Playoffs
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
10:10 pm
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 23rd, 2012
8:51 pm
Metta World Peace!
Ha Ha! Where is the DUI guy for this one?
Ron Artest does not deserve that self imposed name. This guy has come unglued once again and, tried to decapitate one of the nicest and, most loved guy in the world. James Harden.
This story is so big, MSNBC The Ed Show is running it tonight on a political news network. SMH
Aye Ronnie! Give The New Orlean Saints a call, if you wanna’ play “Bounty, Rouge, Bush – League Football”. I’m sure they can find a spot in their player rotation for a guy like you. What a certifiable nut job this guy is.
___________________
Been wondering if/when someone would bring this up. Couldn’t agree more with your assessment. Artest is a criminal–and should consider himself fortunate not to be in prison.
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
10:15 pm
Veteran Firepower and intangibles are what’s going to get this team to the ECF.
That and a contributing Al Horford (Whatever that may be, a jumpshot here and there plus defensive rebounds).
This season has the potential to be different.
EmirS.
April 23rd, 2012
10:25 pm
You know who Harden could really help….the Bulls.
I’m also one of the few people who believes that Artest (screw his name change) did deliver that elbow on accident.
Anyways have we clinched home court against the Celtics? If so we shouldn’t be playing our starters major minutes in these last two games.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
10:27 pm
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
9:15 pm
“I’ve wondered the same thing about Marvin for a couple of years now. He’s got the physical tools (despite the duck waddle) but he just can’t seem to put them together more than a time or two each season.”
Marvin has 0 body strength. He cannot defend in the post (Melo punked his azz yesterday). He lands awkwardly every time in the air and because of his lack of strength, he finishes at the rim at an alarmingly horrendous rate
___________________
Oh, you know you love ol’ Marvy.
I agree with what you’re saying; I guess those rare big games of his just leave me thinking he’s got the POTENTIAL to perform like that more often. I know what you mean about body strength (particularly upper), but he CAN shoot the 3 and run the floor; he just can’t finish.
All we can do at this point is hope he’ll follow up Sunday’s effort with something comparable–although admittedly there’s no history of that.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
10:37 pm
EmirS.
April 23rd, 2012
10:25 pm
You know who Harden could really help….the Bulls.
I’m also one of the few people who believes that Artest (screw his name change) did deliver that elbow on accident.
________________________
One of the VERY few (if any).
Rev in Tampa
April 23rd, 2012
10:52 pm
Blogmonster!
Test – does the word “Liar” cause the blogmonster to eat a post.
Rev in Tampa
April 23rd, 2012
10:55 pm
Don’t worry anybody. I wasn’t calling anybody a liar when my post was eaten. I was referring to Metta Audacious Liar
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
11:04 pm
Artest didn’t even turn around to look at Harden after elbow.
Then he got confrontational
I have actually supported him in past too. Not yesterday.
A 3 or 5 game suspension would be a joke. Larry Sanders got 2 games for stepping over someone without looking.
Melo got 15 for slapping Balkman? Give Artest 12 games
O'brien
April 23rd, 2012
11:09 pm
If Horford proves to be healthy enough, then Rick can try and trade him this offseason if Josh will sign an extension.
I hope Zaza is healthy, so that we can bring Horford off the bench. However, I assume he will be rusty, and I hope LD doesnt cut Ivan’s PT, because we need his physicality.
brigadierjerry
April 23rd, 2012
11:11 pm
I think if you check his stats, Marvin seems to have good games against the Knicks. That was the best I ever saw Marvin play in somewhat of a playoff type atmosphere game. Took it to the basket making aggressive moves. I dont think he likes the Knicks since he got into that fight with Shawne Williams of the Knicks last season!!
ALso interesting with Horford playing. If he can give 15 mintues that would be huge. Would be good to see.
One thing about the Hawks the sum is greater than the parts and when you have a team like that where you kinda depend on everyone to make a contribution to win, that is where coaching comes to play as far as execution and adjustments. This is where I have a problem with LD as coach. Having said that Hawks have better depth than last year and I expect if Hawks get homecourt which i think they will because the Heat will beat Celtics tomorrow, I expect Hawks to win series against the Celtics.
One thing I would like to say about Joe Johnson even though he isnt in the class of a Kobe, Mel, Durant, Wade, etc. What are Hawks expecting out of him?He is what he is. He isnt good enough to do it by himself. He needs help from his teamates. I think if he plays in the same manner as he has when he played against the Celtics in the playoffs in ‘07, then you really can’t have much to complain about him. not that he’s already met that challenge, but I think the expectations can only be so high.
I dunno. thing is, he’s a scoring small guard/forward. He’s not a center. he’s not going to alter shots in the paint or dominate the boards. there are only so many ways he can affect the game. if he scores like he’s been scoring, get a few more rebounds and moves the ball like he’s capable of doing, I don’t know what more you can expect out of him. I guess, the passing out of double teams is crucial. He has to get open shots for his teammates. he does that some nights, but it’s not consistent.
But again, I think expectations can only be so high. Is he the all around player kevin garnett was? No. If he can play something like how paul pierce and dirk nowitzki did during their finals MVP years, that’s about as much as you can reasonably ask of him. his play making needs to improve a bit, I agree. pierce is easily better than him in that regard. dirk probably isn’t much better as a play maker if he’s better at all, but dirk also plays a lot better without the ball which counteracts that somewhat.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
11:31 pm
Is doc now using capital letters? The Mayans were right…
doc
April 23rd, 2012
11:33 pm
o’b you know that quote of bibby used to get me so riled up. what were you trying to do to me, get me on a rant or something? heh heh
doc
April 23rd, 2012
11:38 pm
nice pick up there najeh. the blog monster failed to pick that one up and post it, so i had to recopy that rant in word to copy and paste. since it was doing caps on half of it after periods, on its own, i felt i needed to bring it all into some coherence. sorry to throw you off. heh heh
btw, appreciated the heads up to me and dmb the other day. mighty kind of you. always enjoy your own original efforts and thought. you have brought a lot here form day one.
ok then, back to being the illiterate me. much more comfortable in the loose skin rather than the up tight one.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
11:38 pm
Cosign Steve.
Our financial situation sucks going forward.
Joe contract……..sigh…
doc
April 23rd, 2012
11:44 pm
quote from al:
“It remains to be seen what I can bring,” Horford said. “But I hope to bring some scoring. They can’t expect a lot from me defensively because it’s been a while since I’ve even played. That’s one of the things that will hold me back, but scoring I can help. And also with presence with the team in general.”
uh oh! no al, we need a banger and tough guy to pay defense. sorry bud, that is the way it is. i dont know how i feel about this and it may be the ultimate problem for team unity.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
11:44 pm
“But players like him do not LEAD teams to championships, and that’s what should be a goal here.”
Nobody on this team is going to lead a team to a championship. That includes Al, Josh, Joe, and everyone else. Out of the players on this team, though, Josh and Joe are much, much better at being go-to offensive options than Al. To be honest even Teague is better at creating shots for himself and others than Al. It’s not that close. Al does plenty of things really well, but he is a complementary player at this point.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
11:51 pm
JeJe, get Lazarus Form Recovery to combat the blog monster. No need to copy/paste your posts. Also avoid using the words suolucidir and suolucarim (read them backwards).
High-sider
April 24th, 2012
1:31 am
Metta World [War and] Peace punishment – the first and/or second round of the playoffs
darrell starks
April 24th, 2012
1:58 am
LD will never learn, this team will not go any where as long LD starte the smallish lineup.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
April 24th, 2012
2:05 am
The tallest guy played in sundays game was 6′9 Josh Smith, if coach have not learn by now then his career is closen out as Hawks coach.
Hawks will not beat the Celtics unless coach go with big line up, but nowing him he will continue the same old BS.
Celtics will beat the Hawks 4 – 1
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
April 24th, 2012
2:10 am
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, IVAN, ZAZA
BENCH PARGO, GREEN, TMAC, MARVIN, COLLINS
RESERVE HINRICH, VLAD, DAMPIER
PLAYER ASSIST. STACK
HAWKS IN 5 WITH THIS ROTATION
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
April 24th, 2012
2:35 am
Hawks are 10 wins and 21 loss against teams with winning record how flawed is that, now i see why media never respect the Hawks, SMH.
Hawks have talent but and underachieve coach.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Robbie
April 24th, 2012
4:35 am
“Josh and Joe are much, much better at being go-to offensive options than Al.”
They may create their own shots easier, but so do Jordan Crawford and Nick Young. Means nothing. Offense is about high pct shots and unselfish play – and that is what’s holding this team back right now. Josh and Joe don’t shoot a higher pct than Al and both hurt the offense because those two love to pound the bball for no real reason, resulting in a bad shot, likely a long 2pt jumper. Have you guys actually looked at their stats or are you just blind loyalists? I mean, they aren’t leading you to a ring, why are you all so quick to defend them? lol
Robbie
April 24th, 2012
4:39 am
The problem here is you guys have been watching awful offense so long you have no clue what REAL offense looks like, lol. Watch the Spurs – they RARELY take bad shots and no one player dominates the bball. Because of the way they play, Horford would start on that team, Josh would be a 6th man.
James
April 24th, 2012
5:04 am
Interesting news about Horford. Personally, I would like to see him rest and heal fully before returning to the court for NBA basketball. I, simply, would not want him to risk re-aggravating an injury in a series that the Hawks will most likely lose anyway. Also, in terms of silly debates about who is the best player on the team, Joe, Josh, or Al, I will simply say this. Each player has his own strengths and area where he excels and each player is vital to this team actual achieving significant success. For the Hawks to really make an ECF push, they would need all 3 of these guys healthy, and that is just not happening this season, so while it will be fun to watch the Hawks play, I am not expecting anything more than possibly another second round exit, and perhaps more realistically, a first round exit.
Also, when assessing the offensive ability of players, you have to keep in mind that Joe and Josh have both been given the opportunity to be go-to scorers, whereas Al has never been given that opportunity. We know that Al has typically provided increased production with an increased role, but we will never know whether or not he is capable of a large offensive role without him being given that opportunity, and I don’t think that will happen in ATL under the current coach with the current roster. So, it’s basically just theoretical speculation to discuss that.
Now, in terms of the playoffs this year, I don’t feel very good about the Hawks matching up against the Celtics. One thing that you can always count on from the Celtics is that whoever they put on the floor is going to play hard, and that is not always true of the Hawks, even in the playoffs. Also, when I look at both teams on paper, while the Hawks have more depth and more offensive weapons, the Celtics seem to have a slew of defenders that could give the Hawks trouble. The Hawks have shown all season long that they have problems against good defensive teams, and the Celtics play both good individual defense and good team defense. The Celtics have guys who can eliminate all of the Hawks major options on offense. Bradley and Rondo both have the physical tools to contain Teague and prevent his penetration. Meanwhile, KG can more than defend Josh 1 vs. 1 anywhere on the court, and if Josh manages to get by him, the Celtics know how to pressure Josh into turning the ball over with timely double-teams and by digging down in the post. Also, if you look at Josh’s games against the Celtics this year, he wasn’t very effective in a lot of them, and in the ones where he was effective, the majority of his offense came from perimeter jumpers, which are not the highest percentage shots for him, normally. This tells you that Josh was not comfortable scoring inside against the Celtics.
Looking at those factors alone, that tells you that the Hawks are going to have to base their half court attack on perimeter ball movement or isolation for Joe Johnson. The Celtics do a good job of rotating and preventing open shots, and to make matters worse, they have players that can effectively defend Joe. Pietrus is the perfect guy to put on Joe. He has the length, speed, and savvy to defend Joe and has proven to do a great job of doing so in the past. Also, the Celtics still have the options of putting Bradley or Marquis Daniels on Joe, each of whom is a capable defender. Joe could likely score on either of these two, but doing so repeatedly throughout the course of a game will wear on Joe and likely tire him out in crunch time.
This means that the Hawks are going to have to focus on transition baskets and offensive rebounding for higher percentage scoring opportunities. With Josh on the perimeter, and Ivan on the bench, that means that Zaza is going to be our only real rebounding threat on the offensive end, and if he is not healthy come playoff time, that could be a serious blow. I’m ruling Horford out of the playoffs, since I don’t expect him to be healthy or in rhythm by then, so I am not factoring him into the equation. That leaves just Ivan and Zaza as the “dirty-work” guys. Also, Ivan is at more of a disadvantage against the Celtics than he usually is against others due to the fact that they bring a lot of size off of the bench. The Celtics have Steimsa, a 6′11″ shot blocker, and Hollins, a very athletic 7′ player, that they can bring in off of the bench. While neither player is great offensively, both guys appear to give the Hawks a bit of trouble with their size and Steimsa does a great job of controlling the paint with his shot-blocking for being a rookie. I don’t see Ivan having a big advantage over either player, so I’m not looking for him to have a huge impact on the game, either.
That leaves guys like Marvin, Pargo, and Willie Green as x-factors on the offensive end. Each of these guys can get hot at any time and put points on the board. Marvin is capable of scoring in isolation and in catch-and-shoot situations, meanwhile Pargo and Green can be instant offense at time. However, all of these guys can also do the opposite and go very cold at times. If the Hawks are going to score enough to stay afloat against the Celtics, it’s likely going to require significant production from one of these three.
Now, on the defensive end, I think the Hawks can give Boston some trouble, but if need be, Boston has some favorable matchups to score in isoation. The Hawks don’t have anyone right now who can defend KG 1 vs. 1 in the post. Josh just doesn’t have enough size and KG can shoot right over him at will, meanwhile, Zaza doesn’t have the quickness/agility to defend a guy like KG who has played at the 4 for most of his career. Similarly, Pierce is a proven scorer and is capable of scoring on even the best defenders when he has it going. There’s no doubt that guys like Marvin can slow him down, but I never count Pierce out after seeing what he has done in big moments in the past. Furthermore, the Celtics have the luxury of having a rested Ray Allen who is a master of moving without the ball and capable of scoring from anywhere on the floor if he has a clean look. Whoever is defending Allen is likely going to be exhausted as the series wears on, and I expect Allen to get off and start putting up points at some point in the series. After seeing what Bradley did against the Hawks last week, I am even a bit worried about his offense. We know he can lock people down and rack up the steals defensively, but he is now showing that he can a big-time offensive spark as well, which could spell disaster if the Hawks have to start giving him a lot of defensive attention in addition to the big three plus Rondo.
I feel like if the Hawks are going to win a series against the Celtics this offseason, it is going to be in a grinding fashion where the offense doesn’t look pretty and the games don’t have any flow or rhythm. It’s possible, but I just don’t like the Hawks chances. I’m sensing a first round elimination, even if it is a competitive series.
If Al comes back and, surprisingly, is producing well somehow, that could swing the tide, but I don’t expect it to happen. Even with a healthy Al, the Celtics are still tough to get by. They play hard and they play the right way, plus they never takes plays off. That always gives them a chance to win every game.
James
April 24th, 2012
5:09 am
“The problem here is you guys have been watching awful offense so long you have no clue what REAL offense looks like, lol. Watch the Spurs – they RARELY take bad shots and no one player dominates the bball. Because of the way they play, Horford would start on that team, Josh would be a 6th man.”
I agree with most of this. I love watching the Spurs play, their style is the epitome of team basketball in today’s NBA. Coach Popovich is, in my eyes, one of the best coaches not only of today, but of all time because of his ability to always find a niche for his players and always put them in positions where they can play to their strengths and still play within the context of the team. It’s truly impressive. I think Horford would be a great fit in that system, and if he is traded one day, I think it would be good for him if he was sent to San Antonio.
vava74
April 24th, 2012
5:28 am
A general Co-Sign to Rod’s posts.
We don’t need another jump shooter out there (Al) who is even saying that he can’t play D.
What we are really missing at this moment in time is Zaza back at full health and for LD to give major minutes to Ivan.
For instance, he should start him these last two games in order to see what he can count on if Zaza for any reason has a relapse.
It bewilders me that we may not have Zaza and LD is not testing other options beyond playing Collins and moving Josh to C like he – stupidly IMO – did against the Knicks.
Steven
April 24th, 2012
5:42 am
“We don’t need another jump shooter out there (Al) who is even saying that he can’t play D.”
That “jump shooter” that you are referring to was making a concerted effort to play more inside this season before he was injured. In case you don’t remember, he got injured playing inside. If he was just taking jump shots, the injury probably never would have happened. And, for the record, Horford never said that he couldn’t play D. He said that he wasn’t able to be as effective on the defensive end yet because he was having trouble keeping his left arm raised for extended periods of time. It’s common sense that he is going to have some weakness in his pectoral muscle after going through surgery to repair it just 3 months ago. Yes, he should sit out and let it heal thoroughly, but let’s not act like it’s some sort of failure that he is not able to operate with his repaired muscle at 100% percent efficiency yet. How many people do you think could tear a pectoral muscle to the degree that he did and have it surgically repaired and then return to play NBA-caliber defense just a few months afterward?
doc
April 24th, 2012
7:36 am
a few comments on gadzuric being signed by the knicks, just four days ago. now why werent the hawks talking to this guy? instead we are applyingprssure on al to come back as early as physically possible at 70%. boy, it must suck to play for the hawks, kniw it sucks being a fan of the team owned by the group formerly known as asg, the basg.
doc
April 24th, 2012
7:39 am
here tis:
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/veteran-center-lands-with-the-knicks/?ref=sports
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 24th, 2012
7:41 am
LOL @ Al.
Not even gonna be able to play defense.
And smh @ Gadzuric signing. I begged for this guy for like 3 years
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 24th, 2012
7:43 am
Najeh,
Will that Lazarus thing GUARANTEE my posts appear? I am not having trouble losing the conTent of posts. They just are not appearing
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 24th, 2012
7:44 am
Horford looks extremely skinny in recent pics I’ve seen of him. Hopefully not KG-like
doc
April 24th, 2012
7:52 am
vava ld is addicted to your guy twin the way he was to you whipping by jamal. karma bro. heh heh
that is why he was too stupid to play ivanmajor minutes against the celts and knicks amongother teams.
so celts and knicks bring in williams and gadzuric and we bring in al. i hope he is ready but he aint in playoff shape because he cant rumble and play defense. could get ugly real fast.
Dawg
April 24th, 2012
8:40 am
I wish that Al would stay out this entire season and get healthy. Then I would like to hear that he is working out to get stronger in order to bang and play the role that he needs to play with this team.
He is quick and he can shoot. But he is not the best PF on our team. If he would dedicate himself to being more Charles Oakley type player instead of perimiter Al, the Hawks could be very good considering the usefulness of Zaza.
Admiral SnAckBar
April 24th, 2012
8:52 am
Don’t do it Al.
Al wants to do this so he can play for tiny island this summer.
there is no I in team.
it’s a TRAP!!!
vava74
April 24th, 2012
9:26 am
Stephen,
The issue is not what Al was trying to do early in the season. I know and acknowledged that he was playing inside more now that the updated scouting reports were reducing his open looks to virtually none.
The issue is: he is not physically in condition to play D nor to play inside and he said that he could contribute as a scorer, presumably as a shooter.
Those shots will NOT BE AVAILABLE in the playoffs, even if he is featured as a back up C/PF, so his time on the floor probably will only be negative.
History tells us not to mess with line ups to introduce too early guys coming off injuries.
ORL lost any chance to win the title in the finals with the Lakers because they forced the minutes for Jameer instead of relying on Alston who had taken them there.
O'brien
April 24th, 2012
9:48 am
For the hawks to win in the playoffs, I think they should be more focused on defense and rebounding. But LD is an offensive minded coach, and here comes Al already talking about offense.
I know we have struggled to score points (especially against the celtics). But if we committ to playing defense and rebounding, we will be in every game (IMO).
Doc,
I figured the Bibby quote would take you down memory lane. Now that zaza is out, why hasn’t ld given dampier any minutes? They signed him, and went into luxury tax, and with al and zaza injured, he can’t get any minutes?
Collins has looked better the last couple games, but who knows what to expect from him on a game to game basis.
And for the record, I don’t like the idea of Al coming back if he is only at 70%.
Punanny Jones
April 24th, 2012
9:51 am
It was the most stupid thing we could do, in not trading Al when we had the chance. The dudes career average, 12pts 8 rbs, all star average 3 rbs 5 pts, play off average 10 prt 7 rbs and college average 12 pts 7 rebound clearly mark him as an average Al. We should have traded him while other teams believed the hype.
Al is a loser and the Hawks will continue to fall out of the second round as long as Al is associated with this team. Should of dumped him a long time ago.
If you think is career, allstar, playoffs and college numbers are weak, wait til you see the after major surgery Al.
If he fought opponents the way he fights his teammates over who plays what position hed be more of a force. But he works harder on not defending than defending.
Trade all For a center who cares.
Zaza> Al
Ivan> Al
Josh 10X> Al
Najeh Davenpoop
April 24th, 2012
9:56 am
“Will that Lazarus thing GUARANTEE my posts appear? I am not having trouble losing the conTent of posts. They just are not appearing”
No, but when your posts don’t go through, it will let you recover everything you typed with one click.
Also, don’t use those magic words. I only have a problem with the blog monster when I use those magic words. I think the blog monster eats them because they contain the Spanish word for ass, which is ironic because the English word for ass gets past the blog monster.
Punanny Jones
April 24th, 2012
10:00 am
Thats some funny sh it Al talking about not playing defense. When did he ever? His lack of defense and nonchalant attitude about low post defense is why we never get out of the second round anyway. The dudes attitude sucks. We dont need his 10 -12 pts. we get that from zaza/ivan We need his ass to embrace the defensive role of the center position.
Al is not a team player and is only thinking about hisself. His me me me attitude is what starts the fighting in the locker room
Al horford. EMBRACE THE DEFENSIVE ROLE YOU ARE CALLED TO DO. IDIOT.
TRADE AL NOW!
doc
April 24th, 2012
10:25 am
o’b yes ou know how that quote got me the first time i read it of bibby and he was our vet leader.
and, twin is better. better to what? how does one get better than the worst center in the nba? if he gets better is that any better? celt’s williams was better than him, gadzuirc too. oh for a few dollars more. but we can eat better at RED because that is revenue producing, isnt it? BAH HUMBUG, BASG
KevinM
April 24th, 2012
10:34 am
Jeje: ” remember his brother Herb was an assistant here for years and one game Larry Brown was behind our bench (I think?) and David Aldridge ( think?) reported he would be a candidate to be a coach for us. Does anyone here remember this? Big Ray or northcyde maybe?”
Oh yes, I recall that JeJe; I thought that was the next step that was going to be taken bringing Larry in here if he had had enough in Detroit.
And from Day 1 I have said that after drafting Al, he was going to have to be our Tim Duncan for us to be successful at that time. I don’t see a lot of similarities though. While both may have a high IQ, Al’s ‘nimbers’ have never rivaled those of Duncan. Yes, I know he’s not the first option on offense, but if there was a true center on this team all these years, we may have seen a totally different development.
Instead, we have our ‘other’ PF at 70-80% for games going into the playoffs. He will share minutes with Josh and let Josh take on the C role because I don’t expect much from Al. At this point, I think we need Zaza more than we need Al, because Zaza is more of a C and plays strictly around the rim.
We go with who we have, and mixing different rotations will be upcoming yet again. Let’s see if LD can figure out how to mesh the pieces together.
Wow, to get to this field lately takes so many clicks and scrolls, it’s almost not worth posting. What is the AJC trying to do here….this has to be the most inefficient platform out there. Even realgm.com is better than this.
KevinM
April 24th, 2012
10:37 am
I hope for Al to come back and make a statement that he can play and we can send he or Josh away this summer. There is just a logjam there and having Josh behind the 3 pt line is not any more attractive than it was when he started doing it. I think we need his defense though and I think I have enjoyed this roster more with Al on the sidelines.
But the ASG will come out and make excuses why everyone from Sund down needs to return and make another run at it.
BIG DOG
April 24th, 2012
11:03 am
Hawks have something special and you guys keep talking about AL like he is worthless, JUST DAM.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
BIG DOG
April 24th, 2012
11:05 am
Al Horford 2times allstar, so what’s the problem folks ?
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
BIG DOG
April 24th, 2012
11:19 am
Sam Mitchell should be the Hawks next coach, LD have no clue.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Classifying the NBA's Playoff Contenders, Part 2 | 4th and Done
April 24th, 2012
11:20 am
[...] they deserve credit for competing all season without perhaps their best player in Al Horford, who may or may not be out for the playoffs. In Horford’s absence, Josh Smith took a major leap in carrying the Hawks. [...]
BIG DOG
April 24th, 2012
11:20 am
Next year starter Teague, Joe, Josh, Horford, Zaza.
could win the east next year.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
vava74
April 24th, 2012
11:26 am
Big Dog,
Al is not worthless, but he is definitively a worse PF than Josh.
So, if he does not want to embrace the C position, we are better off trading him since his perceived value in the league is actually higher than is actual value on court.
Al seems to be a very nice guy and I would even go out on a limb and say that for a front court player, he is too nice.
Really effective front court players who happen to be nice guys are very few and far apart and typically a lot more gifted technical and/or physically than Al.
Duncan, for instance, is much much much better technically than Al will ever be.
If the ASG want to make a final push next year and keep the core together one more year, then Al must play C and do it like he did at the beginning of his career:
Hustling and getting his points out of offensive rebounds, pick and roll plays, rather than pick n pop, …).
His low post moves are not good enough – and probably never will be – and his outside shot needs a lot of space and time, which was given to him last year due to slow scouting but closed in the playoffs and this season’s early games.
Rod from College Park
April 24th, 2012
11:47 am
This is the problem. I like Al. He is way overhyped, but he is solid. The problems are:
1. LD seems to have problems when he has more options. His substitution patterns are already horrible, and adding Al now will simply complicate things for him more.
2. Al coming back will mean little or no time for Ivan. Ivan is not on Al’s level as a player yet, but is is much more physical, and rebounds the ball just as well. Against the Celtics, I think we need more physicality, and less jump shot shooting.
3. Al states he will provide scoring. Al is not a scorer. He scores because teams were leaving him open for that 15 to 20 foot jump shot. In the playoffs he will not be left open (See last year). We need him more for rebounding and banging down low than scoring. Will he be able to provide that?
Rod from College Park
April 24th, 2012
12:11 pm
Robbie,
“They may create their own shots easier, but so do Jordan Crawford and Nick Young. Means nothing. Offense is about high pct shots and unselfish play – and that is what’s holding this team back right now. Josh and Joe don’t shoot a higher pct than Al and both hurt the offense because those two love to pound the bball for no real reason, resulting in a bad shot, likely a long 2pt jumper. Have you guys actually looked at their stats or are you just blind loyalists? I mean, they aren’t leading you to a ring, why are you all so quick to defend them? lol”
Horford aint leading us to a ring either. Horford shoots a higher percentage than Josh and Joe, so what. David Lee shoots a higher percentage than Kobe Bryant, that don’t make him better than Kobe. It’s a function of his position, and where his shots come from. Al shoots a higher percentage than Josh and Joe because of Josh and Joe. His gets wide open looks because teams defend Josh and Joe, and he is left open when he plays center, because the other teams center does not want to be out guarding a guy on the perimeter. Al shot 55% during the regular season last year, and then in the playoffs shot 42%. The reason is percentage dropped so much was because in the playoffs they stopped leaving him open, and guarded him with PF’s, instead of centers. FG’s should not be taken literally. Lot of things determine FG%.
“The problem here is you guys have been watching awful offense so long you have no clue what REAL offense looks like, lol. Watch the Spurs – they RARELY take bad shots and no one player dominates the bball. Because of the way they play, Horford would start on that team, Josh would be a 6th man.”
LOL. who would he start over, Tim Duncan? Pop has started starting Diaw, at PF as opposed to Bonner. Both of the guys are more stretch 4’s than power 4’s, which is what Horford would probably be. I think you would be more than surprised to see what Pop could do with Josh. I think he would no doubt start at the 4 on this Spurs team. Can’t say the same for Horford. I guess we have a difference of opinion. The Spurs not taking bad shots is a function of the coach not letting them take bad shots, not the players.
KevinM
April 24th, 2012
12:17 pm
Al coming back impacts Marvin, Ivan, Zaza and Josh. I have always stated he and Josh are counterintuitive with each other. I would rather have Josh on the inside than Al, and I don’t want Al on the 3 pt line either.
We have seen Josh and Zaza can play well together. Can we compete with +.500 teams? Adding Al back doesn’t help much IMO. His value can be used in a swap this summer, but Sund won’t do it.
J
April 24th, 2012
12:37 pm
have to agree with atlthrasha … this series will be good, regardless of who’s on the court. Anybody who says Atlanta is getting an automatic first round exit didn’t watch any games during the regular season (let’s not count the home win). There will be an intense rivalry, so get ready!
KevinM
April 24th, 2012
12:52 pm
We are still one win from getting HC…..huge IMO.
cdog
April 24th, 2012
1:50 pm
rick sund need to take notes of the falcons thomas dimitrop. he’s not sitting back letting everyone gets better and not do nothing to improve the team as sund does.sund is the main problem with the hawks.look at the players he brought in, has-beens and cheapos. show you he’s not looking to win the championship.hopefully, this is his last go around.the charlotte bobcats would be a good fit for him.the hawks need a GM looking for a finals championship. sund isn’t
Slimjr
April 24th, 2012
5:23 pm
Robotus and Melt maybe the two most over hyped professional athletes today?
If All whatever played out West, LaMarcus and others would whip up on his stiff butt nightly…
This guy would not even get mentioned for All Star accolades…
And Ryan will be replaced with in 2 years… Yawn.
Kudos to Mr. Escort to the rim uncontested for finally being honest and telling the fans he’s bringing no “D” to the playoffs just 1950’s set shots. Yippee! Yahoo!
Slimjr
April 24th, 2012
5:29 pm
Clippers are extremely hungry tonight..Expect a 2nd quarter Hawk deficit..How much? Who knows.
If LD puts Captain Kirk on Randy Foye? Oh the humanity!
A MUST WIN FOR THE HAWKS!
Dwayne
April 25th, 2012
10:22 am
Hawks have no answer for Rondo…Celtics in 6.