Atlanta Hawks: Knicks 113, Hawks 112
- The Hawks had what might have been their best offensive game of the season against a top 5 defense. At the very least, it was their best offensive game since Dec. 31 at Philadelphia. They lost both games because of lackluster defense and shaky late-game execution.
- Depending on your view, it could either a good sign that the Hawks showed the ability to score against good defensive opponents or a bad sign they squandered those efforts when they finally got them. Or maybe another way to look at is the Hawks have shown they can play consistently effective defense so maybe not doing it this game was a fluke and their offense is finally ready for the playoffs.
- Josh Smith didn’t sound too worried. “It wasn’t like we got blown out of the game,” he said. “If we didn’t compete at all, then I would be concerned.”
- But there is a worrisome disconnect with the Hawks when it comes to their offense. It’s been that way since I’ve been around and it was brought into sharp relief while listening to Larry Drew and Joe Johnson talk about the offense after this game.
- Drew: “We had enough stuff that I knew we wouldn’t be predictable offensively in what we did. We run things where we put things in Joe’s hands but, for the most part, we had good ball movement, we share the basketball and we get things moving from one side to the other.”
- Joe: “Down the stretch, I just figure you have got to put the ball in the hands of your playmakers. Point blank. The Knicks did it all game. [Carmelo Anthony] shot 32 times, man. They made sure they got the ball to the right man.”
- The Hawks didn’t do that? “Naw,” Joe said. “Not when we needed buckets.” So that means he should have gotten the ball more? “Of course. I always want the ball down the stretch.” But weren’t the Knicks forcing the ball out of your hands? “Naw. It was probably more just play-calling.”
- There are obvious holes in what both Drew and Joe said. Drew’s offense often devolves from what’s working–whether it be the share-the-ball philosophy or post-ups for Josh–into Iso-Joe. And Joe, for all his talents, just isn’t as effective as Anthony in that situation.
- Witness Joe’s forced, missed fadeaway 20-footer with the Hawks down 113-112. Or look at the next possession, when Joe dribbled out the shot clock in isolation before passing out to Josh for an airballed 3-point try.
- Joe took three shots in seven fourth-quarter minutes and made three. Marvin Williams, who was hot all game, took five shots and made three in 11 minutes. Josh took three shots and missed them all in 11 minutes. Jeff Teague missed both of his field-goal attempts in seven minutes.
- I just don’t see Joe’s gripe here. But I do see that this disconnect could be Atlanta’s undoing in the playoffs, and not energy or effort or defense or any of the other things the Hawks tend to attribute to their losses.
- That’s not to say nothing good came out of this from the Hawks. Aside from 19 turnovers and seven missed free throws, the Hawks were about as good as they could be offensively: 54 percent shooting, 26 fast-break points, 15 of 23 on 3-pointers. The Hawks engaged the Knicks in a high-possession game and nearly matched their output.
- “We knew they were going to get up-and-down, especially with ‘Melo’ playing the four,” Joe said. “They’ve got so many shooters to spread the floor. We didn’t put no force behind it when we was guarding him. You have got to make it tough. He’s a scorer in this league.”
- “We was getting [offense] from all different angles,” Josh said. “I loved what I saw from Marvin, especially the outside jump shots.”
- Marvin was nearly flawless: 29 points on 14 shots, 11 rebounds, three blocks, one steal and just one turnover. He did a really good job with spacing, catching, and shooting with confidence when the Knicks doubled Joe and Josh.
- His final dunk attempt missed but it came too late, anyway. The Hawks ran a play similar to the one they used to beat the Clippers last season, when Al Horford was decked by Blake Griffin and recovered to make two free throws.
- “Similar play,” Drew said. “Marvin made the right play. Probably didn’t get there quick enough, but he got to the rim and we got the look we wanted.”
- Marvin thought Amar’e Stoudemire fouled him. It looked like a clean challenge to me. “I don’t think anyone should complain that there was any contact on that last play,” Amare said.
- The Hawks didn’t immediately call timeout after Joe rebounded Anthony’s miss, with Joe instead passing to Kirk Hinrich. That cost them 1.5 seconds, which ended up being costly. There didn’t seem to be much situational awareness from the bench or the players on the floor.
- Marvin did what he could to slow Anthony but it’s tough when Anthony is making those pull-up Js with very little air space. “He’s a tough cover when he’s not making that,” Marvin said. “In my mind he’s top five, top three best scorers in this league. The things he is able to do is unbelievable.”
- Joe had 23 points on 14 shots but couldn’t consistently take advantage of Iman Sumpert’s tight defense (even if Shumpert got away with a lot of reaching). Joe tried to get around him with his hesitation dribble move but it was ineffective. So Joe often had to resort to making challenge Js, which he can do, but it wrecks the offensive flow when he misses.
- Josh took some good turns on Melo but never found his offensive flow. In games like this he has to earn more than three free-throw attempts. But it’s hard to do that when he’s so slow to make his move that he allows the Knicks to poke away the ball.
- Baron Davis should not be able to slip past Teague so easily to get to the basket. Teague should be able to score 23 points on 14 shots, and he did.
- Hinrich’s line (three points on four shots, four assists in 28 minutes) sticks out on a boxscore where so many others did much more.
- Jannero Pargo led the charge in the second quarter with nine points on five shots. He’s been pretty consistent with those outbursts. Pargo’s defense has been good this season but not today.
- Tracy McGrady is having a career-worst season on long 2s. That’s not so costly when he’s playmaking and rebounding but he didn’t do much of either today.
- I thought Ivan Johnson would make more of an impact in a smallball game like this.
- “He took 32 [shots] to get them,” Drew said. “I’m happy about that. I told our guys before the game, when you play guys who are high-volume scorers and big-time scorers you make a decision what you want to do against them and we carry the same approach against all scorers. Similar to how we play Dwight Howard, we try to defend him as best we can one-on-one and try to lock in on the other guys. Our problem is we didn’t lock in on the other guys.”
Melo’s 39 points on 32 shots weren’t so bad for the Hawks. Basically New York’s offense was Melo in isolation, Amar’e rolling to the basket (until the Knicks forgot about him late) and Landry Fields catching-and-shooting.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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194 comments Add your comment
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
6:29 pm
FIRE LD
FIRE SUND
Astro Joe
April 22nd, 2012
6:30 pm
OB, did doc suggest Teague was incapable of ever playing well? Just wondering?
With about 2:20 left in the game, Joe drew a double team and passed to a wide open Teague behind the 3 point line. Teague gave the ball up immediately like it was a hot potato. He is coming along but his next step is showing more late game confidence, especially when he is wide open. If he refuses to attack the defense in the 4th quarter, the opposing PG will double Joe and Josh everytime down the floor.
It was a thrilling game. Hawks can’t lose focus at the free throw line like they have done several times this season. A few less of those careless TOs would have been nice.
BTW, can’t get too excited about a game that featured such anomolies as over a dozen made 3-pointers and Marvin going the F off.
Fun game.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
6:30 pm
Nothing is ever Joe’s fault. Josh too.
It’s never their faults
Najeh Davenpoop
April 22nd, 2012
6:31 pm
“The Hawks didn’t do that? “Naw,” Joe said. “Not when we needed buckets.” So that means he should have gotten the ball more? “Of course. I always want the ball down the stretch.” But weren’t the Knicks forcing the ball out of your hands? “Naw. It was probably more just play-calling.””
This is such BS. He had the ball in his hands nearly every possession down the stretch. He converted on the possessions where he was set up by a teammate and failed on the possessions where he tried to create offense on his own. As usual.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
6:31 pm
U gotta keep Melo on the perimeter. He is too strong once he posts up
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
6:32 pm
MC’s postgame blogs are excellent
Viv’s are just AP-looking stuff with no opinions or anything
Najeh Davenpoop
April 22nd, 2012
6:33 pm
“With about 2:20 left in the game, Joe drew a double team and passed to a wide open Teague behind the 3 point line. Teague gave the ball up immediately like it was a hot potato. He is coming along but his next step is showing more late game confidence, especially when he is wide open.”
How much of this is lack of confidence on Teague’s part, and how much of it is an effort to get the ball in the hands of the so-called “playmakers”, as Joe calls it? I wouldn’t be surprised if Teague deferring has at least as much to do with trying to grow into a so-called “true” PG as it is due to any confidence issues.
Get Throwed
April 22nd, 2012
6:33 pm
waiting for Amare to make an angry tweet about pargo and marvin like he did Al last year
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
6:34 pm
Similar play,” Drew said. “Marvin made the right play. Probably didn’t get there quick enough, but he got to the rim and we got the look we wanted.”
***
no he didn’t make the right play. He waited 2 seconds and I knew the time would run out. You are a terrible head coach
Tootsi
April 22nd, 2012
6:35 pm
Someone please give me some reasons as to why there should be any confidence in this team making some noise in the playoffs? You absolutely cannot afford to lose either of the next two. The only chance we have is to get home court in the 1st round otherwise it will be a quick exit.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
6:35 pm
Ppl should be worried about BOS, reardless of HC. Gotta beat KG PP Ray Rondo Avery AND Doc 4 times…
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
6:36 pm
We will not blow BOS out in any games. Need to play outta his world to win a 7 game series vs them.
Then get owned in Rd 2
Najeh Davenpoop
April 22nd, 2012
6:37 pm
“But it’s hard to do that when he’s so slow to make his move that he allows the Knicks to poke away the ball.”
This is the second game in a row against the Knicks that Woody has made his players aggressively double Josh and poke at the ball to try to force turnovers. Other teams haven’t caught on yet, but Josh needs to be ready for this the next time the Hawks and Knicks play.
pointguardslim
April 22nd, 2012
6:37 pm
“We knew they were going to get up-and-down, especially with ‘Melo’ playing the four,” Joe said. “They’ve got so many shooters to spread the floor. We didn’t put no force behind it when we was guarding him. You have got to make it tough. He’s a scorer in this league.”
—————-
Josh at the 3 come playoffs. Chandler will be back.
Win Shares Per 48 Minutes (Chandler)
2010-11 NBA .218 (top 5)
2011-12 NBA .222 (top 7)
Najeh Davenpoop
April 22nd, 2012
6:38 pm
“Hinrich’s line (three points on four shots, four assists in 28 minutes) sticks out on a boxscore where so many others did much more.”
Kenneth Faried last night: 18 points, 14 boards, 1 steal, 3 blocks, zero turnovers, 2 assists, 9/13 shooting. JUST SAYING
pointguardslim
April 22nd, 2012
6:38 pm
Josh at the 3. I mean small forward.
He’s like Iguodala. He’s not a #1 option. But he can defend, rebound and terrify in transition.
We have enough scoring. We need his defense.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
6:39 pm
Teague passes up way too many open 3s
pointguardslim
April 22nd, 2012
6:43 pm
“Hinrich’s line (three points on four shots, four assists in 28 minutes) sticks out on a boxscore where so many others did much more.”
************
He’s an (unathletic) tweener in size shooting and slashing ability. Emphasis on unathletic. Only 6′3 and change.
What do you expect?
Come playoffs, this man should not be starting. Rather 3 big man frontcourt rather than 3 guards.
Our identity has to become size and the defense and rebounding. That comes with it. We have to feature Josh as the 3 if we expect to win.
But that relies on health.
DawgNole
April 22nd, 2012
6:49 pm
Astro Joe
April 22nd, 2012
6:30 pm
Fun game.
______________________
It’s never fun to lose.
DawgNole
April 22nd, 2012
6:53 pm
One of the most painful aspects of today’s game is that it ended the way espn hoped it would.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
6:53 pm
Yo Najeh,
What popup blocker do u use again? Sorry I keep asking. Accidentally got rid of it and these ads are horrendous
DawgNole
April 22nd, 2012
7:14 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
April 22nd, 2012
3:08 pm
JeJe, it is AdBlock Plus, but it won’t block the toolbar on the bottom of this page.
Harry
April 22nd, 2012
7:14 pm
What about turnovers? I really wish Josh would take ‘nique’s advice and give the ball to the point guard – being the finisher instead of trying to initiate the play.
DawgNole
April 22nd, 2012
7:16 pm
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
6:53 pm
Yo Najeh,
What popup blocker do u use again? Sorry I keep asking. Accidentally got rid of it and these ads are horrendous
________________
If it’s the “Meebo Bar” you’re referencing, you should be able to go to the icon at the lower right of your window and “Hide” it.
Dave
April 22nd, 2012
7:20 pm
“Fun game”
LOSER TALK.
hbcuclassics
April 22nd, 2012
7:23 pm
HBCU Classic Sports
2012 Draft Preview:
WR, Mario Louis, Grambling
#1 WR in HBCU Football
http://www.hbcuclassics.com/hbcu_showcase
High-sider
April 22nd, 2012
7:24 pm
Woody finally got his “revenge.”
Dave
April 22nd, 2012
7:25 pm
“Josh at the 3. I mean small forward.
He’s like Iguodala. He’s not a #1 option. But he can defend, rebound and terrify in transition”
YOU FORGOT, “AND TURN THE BALL OVER, GET DUMB TECHNICALS, GET OUTREBOUNDED BY PLAYERS SHORTER THAN HIM, TAKE DUMB JUMPERS THAT KILL THE FLOW OF THE OFFENSE AND LOOK TERRIBLE TO CASUAL FANS, EVENTUALLY BECOME THE REASON THE HAWKS WILL GET BOUNCED IN THE PLAYOFFS, ETC ETC ETC.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
7:29 pm
Thanks DawgNole. Need it for when I watch games online
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
7:33 pm
YOU FORGOT, “AND TURN THE BALL OVER, GET DUMB TECHNICALS, GET OUTREBOUNDED BY PLAYERS SHORTER THAN HIM, TAKE DUMB JUMPERS THAT KILL THE FLOW OF THE OFFENSE AND LOOK TERRIBLE TO CASUAL FANS, EVENTUALLY BECOME THE REASON THE HAWKS WILL GET BOUNCED IN THE PLAYOFFS, ETC ETC ETC.
**
cosign
Ole Hawk's Fan
April 22nd, 2012
7:34 pm
Joe will never see that he is the one not making the plays in crunch time against GOOD NBA TEAMS. He needs to look in the mirror to see where the PROBLEM LIES> It is you ISO JOE…………YOU HAVE THE BALL and dribbling while the shot clock runs down and then you fade away jumper misses. GET JJ OUT OF HERE………………….DON”T BRING BACK LD and SUND>.
Dave
April 22nd, 2012
7:41 pm
“But that relies on health.”
CERTAINLY NOT TALKING ABOUT AL RIGHT? BECAUSE IVE SEEN YOU DOG HIM OUT AS IF HE WAS THE PROBLEM AND JOSH WAS READY TO BECOME TIM DUNCAN ON THE BLOCK. THIS IS THE GROUP YOU ALL WANTED, DON’T CRY ABOUT IT NOW. GO OUT THERE AND GET IT DONE. NO EXCUSES.
JSS
April 22nd, 2012
7:51 pm
Maybe we finally get a breakout performance over two weeks from Marvin like we got out of Josh Childress in first Boston playoff series? Not saying it will happen, but like Falcons fans, I’m using blind some hope!
Man in Black
April 22nd, 2012
7:54 pm
FREE THROWS. When we don’t make our free throws we lose. We missed 8 free throws today and lost by 1. Joe was 0-3 from the line – we missed a T free throw. Look at the 26 games we lost this season – 23 of them we would have won if we shot 90% from the line.
Pat Riley said it in the 80’s – you don’t make free throws – you don’t get rings.
Melvin
April 22nd, 2012
8:02 pm
I wonder if that was Melo on the last second drive instead of Marvin, would Melo had gotten a foul call.
steven a smith
April 22nd, 2012
8:19 pm
Please..Dwight Howard,AKA Superman could not have gotten that shot off in 3.4 seconds.
steven a smith
April 22nd, 2012
8:20 pm
Superman..AKA Dwight Howard could not have gotten that shot off…
steven a smith
April 22nd, 2012
8:21 pm
It does not matter. The Knicks would defeat the Hawks 4 games to 1 in a series anyway…
deddeee
April 22nd, 2012
8:24 pm
What happened was that the Hawks had to hit the Knicks in the mouth, which they did, but then they forgot that the Knicks had and other elite teams always do have some weights inside those jock straps, if you know what I mean, and the Hawks seem to forget they have them too. MArvin should have driving to the basket on that miss where the Hawks got lucky and got the ball back and he should have taken a jumper knowing it was a 3.5 second played bothered by the Knicks for 1 second or so when that play began. Not enough time to dunk, no fouls would be called. Joe cannot dunk so he would had taken the jumper – and miss? It happens almost every time against elite teams, the Hawks lose those games because they let the other team get to them which results in bad shots, rushed shots, you name it.
Astro Joe
April 22nd, 2012
8:30 pm
Najeh, when the playmaker sets you up with an open shot, you have to take it. He (Joe) managed the double team to perfection. Surely even the most loyal Teague fans recognizes how differently he plays in the first half vs. the second half. Again, I’m not trying to slam the guy, especiallyafter an overall solid performance, Just highlighting a specific area where he must improve. Sometimes, a young player has deficiencies, irrespective of some previous perceived victimization or the ongoing bullying from the mean teammates.
Brian
April 22nd, 2012
8:36 pm
This game was just another sign that the Hawks can’t get it done when it matters. They lost the season series to Chicago, Miami, NY, Philly and Boston. Which means they should just forfeit their playoff spot and sit home because THEY WILL fail again. They always do. They’ve won about three or four good games all year and that’s it. The rest is just filler. Including the pointless wins over Orlando. That team isn’t top notch anymore, but fans act like the hawks have won the title when they beat Orlando.
The Hawks are failures. The only reason they’re in the playoffs is because the east is so weak. The hawks would be under .500 out west.
Fats OKelly
April 22nd, 2012
8:38 pm
We had little Spike Lee worried most of the game. That was worth something:)
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
8:43 pm
This game was just another sign that the Hawks can’t get it done when it matters. They lost the season series to Chicago, Miami, NY, Philly and Boston. Which means they should just forfeit their playoff spot and sit home because THEY WILL fail again. They always do. They’ve won about three or four good games all year and that’s it. The rest is just filler. Including the pointless wins over Orlando. That team isn’t top notch anymore, but fans act like the hawks have won the title when they beat Orlando.
The Hawks are failures. The only reason they’re in the playoffs is because the east is so weak. The hawks would be under .500 out west.
***
exactly what I’ve been saying for the last 3 months.
DawgNole
April 22nd, 2012
8:44 pm
Brian
April 22nd, 2012
8:36 pm
This game was just another sign that the Hawks can’t get it done when it matters . . . . That team isn’t top notch anymore . . . .
______________________
Uh, could you tell me exactly when it was that they were top notch?
Brian
April 22nd, 2012
8:46 pm
Note… They made the finals a few years ago. That’s more than we can say for this team since they’ve been in Atlanta. This team hasn’t even won a division title since 1994. Even Nique was a playoff failure by never getting anywhere.
DawgNole
April 22nd, 2012
8:52 pm
Brian
April 22nd, 2012
8:46 pm
Note… They made the finals a few years ago. That’s more than we can say for this team since they’ve been in Atlanta. This team hasn’t even won a division title since 1994. Even Nique was a playoff failure by never getting anywhere.
__________________________
Yes, Orlando did, but I thought he was referring to the Hawks. If not, my mistake.
Section 303
April 22nd, 2012
8:54 pm
I see two problems in this game. One, is free throw shooting. The Hawks are just leaving way too many points on the floor. Hurt them today.
Two, I do not think Josh Smith is playing well. He was not good Friday and today. He was matched up on three straight possessions in the first quarter with Josh Harrison (sp? The kid from Kentucky) and failed to score each time. Getting that favorable of a matchup, on three straight trips, and getting no points was costly.
Also, not sure what the F was going on before the timeout prior to the last shot. Everyone looked unsure. Lost nearly two seconds. Can’t happen next weekend.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
8:57 pm
How do you call a timeout before a last play and don’t even get a shot off?
Shame on Marvin. The idiot held onto the ball way too long before dribbling.
Pargo or Willie would’ve ethered NYK there. Instead, we went to freaking Marvin Williams. All he did today was knock down open shots he ALWAYS GETS. There’s no proof or evidence he will repeat this performance again this year. This game was an anomaly for him and he will fade into mediocrity after tonight
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
8:59 pm
Small ball against the Celts and its over in 4….
47
O'brien
April 22nd, 2012
9:01 pm
Najeh,
Doc Rivers is a much better coach than Woody, so I think Josh might struggle (agains) against the Celtics.
Against Josh, the ways to play him are 1) If he is trying to post up, reach inside and try to poke the ball away, especially since he has shaky handles 2) Mix in a few timely double teams 3) If he is facing up, play off him and entice him to take the jumper.
And Doc will make the necessary adjustments.
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
9:01 pm
The guard play perimeter defense was absolutely atrocious!!!!!
12-21
45
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
9:06 pm
Captain Kirk wore the cloaking device today..
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
9:07 pm
12-21 is abysmal….
ejh
April 22nd, 2012
9:20 pm
I believe that most of these bloggers here do not know the game of basketball. You are young fans who do not have patience and everything for you has to be immediate gratification. That is what is wrong with the young generation today. This was a very entertaining game, but it was not a playoff game. Nobody in the playhoffs scores a 113 or 112 points. This was an entertaining game for the fans. Come playoffs there are no easy shots. The Hawks will have to get used to that and so will there opponents. For the negative bloggers here when this team makes the ECF I hope you continue to blog the same negativity, and don’t use fake blog names to come back as if you were true fans, because you are not.
PDIDDY
April 22nd, 2012
9:25 pm
Spike Lee is a racist and he hates white people….
Not a blogger, just a fan.
April 22nd, 2012
9:27 pm
ejh
April 22nd, 2012
9:20 pm
“I believe that most of these bloggers here do not know the game of basketball.”
________________________________________________________________
We are not “bloggers” just fans…..
Cade99
April 22nd, 2012
9:28 pm
@Pdiddy, DUH everyone knows that…..
Brian
April 22nd, 2012
9:28 pm
ejh… I’ve watched this team since the late 80’s. This team will go nowhere in the playoffs. They’ve proven this time and time again. They will prove it again this year.
This team can’t beat up on the Bobcats and Nets when the playoffs get started. They will be matched up against Boston and they WILL LOSE again. Just like before. They will lose. They will lose because Josh Smith will jack up jumpers and Joe will have more poor shooting performances. And they will blame Al being out of the line up. Only a few people will be buy though.
This team got owned by most of their rivals during the regular season and the samething will happen in the playoffs in a few weeks.
Cade99
April 22nd, 2012
9:29 pm
Didn’t you mean for your username to be Kanye?
PDIDDY
April 22nd, 2012
9:31 pm
@Cade…lol yes I messed that up. Just don’t know why that worthless Spike Lee punk get’s the cover. He is a loser and hasn’t done anything other than tweet the wrong people’s address for the past 20 years.
Seven70
April 22nd, 2012
9:37 pm
Tough loss, good effort though…Lakers Rule baby!!!
KOBE
ejh
April 22nd, 2012
9:44 pm
I have watched this team since Dan Roundfield, Tree Rollins, etc. So I have been a fan of this team for a long time. I just do not believe in negativity. Fans support there teams, not berate and say they can not get the job done. Fans who continue to spew this obiviously only have negative things that constantly transpire in their lives because they never see the positive of anything or any progress. This franchise missed the playoffs for 9 straight years. I was going to games when this team was 13 – 69 where were you. So I understand patience and what it takes to try and win at a high level with limited resources. The Dallas Mavericks were nothing for years until Mark Cuban paitently waited and turned them in to a champion. So for any real true fans they understand that only 1 out of the 30 teams is going to win the NBA title and to do that you first have to be 1 of 16 and then 1 of 8 and then 1 of 4 and then 1 of 2. The Hawks are at least 1 of the 16 that gets the chance and for the past 2 years they have been 1 out of the last 8. Real fans understand that, bandwagoners well they come and go.
doc
April 22nd, 2012
9:45 pm
“OB, did doc suggest Teague was incapable of ever playing well? Just wondering?”
astro, never, i did say i think the celts have jt0’s number and would remember it in a few weeks and pobably continue whatever they did to him on both sides of the court when the playoffs come.
the bar they are trying to get over just got higher.
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
9:52 pm
Nice offensive output by Marvin and rebounding to boot..What did his guy score he primarily defended most of the night? Wow…
Does the word torched come to mind? Hmmmmmm
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
9:55 pm
Up next Two very Hungry WESTERN CONFERENCE TEAMS? Here we go…
Clippers then Dallas…
Clippers are 8-3 in April!
doc
April 22nd, 2012
9:55 pm
The Hawks didn’t immediately call timeout after Joe rebounded Anthony’s miss, with Joe instead passing to Kirk Hinrich. That cost them 1.5 seconds, which ended up being costly. There didn’t seem to be much situational awareness from the bench or the players on the floor.
bad bb iq there which he really has little. only look to how he hekd the ball several paragraphs up and why it is detrimental to put it in his hands.
not so good on the lock down on the rest of them larry.
Brian
April 22nd, 2012
9:57 pm
EJH…. the playoff format is part of the “Everybody is a winner” crap that’s been going for decades. George Carlin covered this ground pretty well years ago. Most of these teams shouldn’t be in the playoffs. The Hawks included. They simply don’t stack up with the best teams. They’ve proved it by losing to good teams all year that they can’t get the job done.
I’m tired of hearing about “what a real fan is”. I don’t buy the cliche arguments made. Never have and never will… Sorry that you wasted your money on a franchise that doesn’t set high goals. But that was up to you. I’m tired of early 2nd round exits being the most this team can achieve. NOT IMPRESSIVE.
The reality is this team should be ashamed that they lost to NY and they should be ashamed of the season they’ve had.
ejh
April 22nd, 2012
9:57 pm
I also would like to point out that the hawks nucleus of players are still young. When you look at their starting lineup if Marvin is in there. You have Josh at 26 years, Marvin at 25 years, Al at 25 years, Teague at 22 years, and Joe at 29 years. Take Joe out and remove the bench players and all of the key hawks players are just coming into their prime. Boston has KG 36, Ray Allen 37, Paul Pierece 35, and they only have one NBA title, so I say the chances are going to be good that the Hawks will win the title in the next 3 years.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
10:01 pm
ejh
“For the negative bloggers here when this team makes the ECF”
LOL. I’ll believe it when I see it.
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
10:01 pm
Josh is gone. The Hawks will not be able to keep him..They better trade him for picks….
Brian
April 22nd, 2012
10:03 pm
lol. ok ejh.
ejh
April 22nd, 2012
10:09 pm
If the hawks win there last two game that would give them 40 wins on the season: There will be only 8 or 9 other teams with 40 wins. Chicago, Miami Indiana in the East. Lakers, Clippers, Thunder, Spurs, Grizzlies in the West. And to do this with an injury pleagued season. The Milwaukee bucks were supposed to be better than the hawks. The hawks lose their starting center and have the 4th best record in the east, the bucks lose their starting center and can’t even make the playoffs. The knicks lost to cleveland the other night the bulls and the heat lost to washington at home. We can play that game all day. The thing is getting healthy and continutity going into the playoffs and I believe the hawks are on that path. This team last year was a couple of free throws away from taking a 3-2 advantage on the bulls in the 2nd round and coming back to Atlanta for a game six clincher. It did not work out then but I believe they will get it done this year.
Isaiah Rider
April 22nd, 2012
10:12 pm
Did you say Hawks will win a title in 3 years…oh my goodness !
DawgNole
April 22nd, 2012
10:16 pm
ejh
April 22nd, 2012
9:20 pm
For the negative bloggers here when this team makes the ECF I hope you continue to blog the same negativity, and don’t use fake blog names to come back as if you were true fans, because you are not.
_________________________
And when this team does not make the ECF, I’m sure you will return to the blog to admit you were mistaken.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
10:19 pm
“_________________________
And when this team does not make the ECF, I’m sure you will return to the blog to admit you were mistaken.”
Thank you DawgNole.
Amidst all the obnoxious antagonistic people here, there’s a few of us who actually see things clearly, and I am thankful you and I are among 2 of them.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
10:21 pm
FTPB
northcyde
“LOL @ Melo screaming “All Day”.
This is good for the Hawks to play a talkative, arrogant team like this. It’ll get them in the right frame of mind for the playoffs.”
LOL. We have played plenty of arrogant talkative teams. We are a bunch of nice quiet timid guys. The team won’t change because of what happened with Melo or Amar’s washed up azz
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing………..
You get the idea. This severely undercoached and flawed roster is not going anywhere
DawgNole
April 22nd, 2012
10:25 pm
ejh
April 22nd, 2012
9:44 pm
I just do not believe in negativity . . . . I was going to games when this team was 13 – 69 where were you. So I understand patience and what it takes to try and win at a high level with limited resources.
___________________
Haven’t won a second-round series in 45 years. And you’re asking for “patience”?!
Dave
April 22nd, 2012
10:27 pm
WHO CARES IF JOSH LEAVES? PLAYERS LIKE HIM DON’T WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS AS STARTERS.
HE’S LAMAR ODOM 2.0… HE’LL NEVER GET RIGHT UNTIL HE GOES TO A BETTER ORG THAT WON’T PUT UP WITH HIS STUPIDITY. OUR FANS ARE TOO BUSY MAKING EXCUSES AND PRINTING UP HIS CLUB POSTERS.
GOOD RIDDANCE. GRAB SOME PICK, AMNESTY JOE MILLIONAIRE AND START OVER.
OWWWW… LOL
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
10:30 pm
ejh
“So I understand patience and what it takes to try and win at a high level with limited resources.”
Limited resources? We have a top 10 payroll (not top 5 like the brilliant Gearon Jr claimed).
We are undercoached and still a flawed roster despite a reasonable payroll.
SSDY
Dave
April 22nd, 2012
10:30 pm
BRING IN SOME REAL GOONS WHO WILL LAY SOMEONE OUT IF THEY EVEN LOOK AT ONE OF OUR PLAYERS WRONG. NOT “J-SMOOVE”… SOUNDS LIKE A STRIPPER’S NAME LOL
DawgNole
April 22nd, 2012
10:32 pm
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
10:19 pm
And when this team does not make the ECF, I’m sure you will return to the blog to admit you were mistaken.”
Thank you DawgNole.
Amidst all the obnoxious antagonistic people here, there’s a few of us who actually see things clearly, and I am thankful you and I are among 2 of them.
________________
We’re heavily outnumbered, Mr. JeJe, but I believe the few of us on here who fully understand what’s been happening for the past 44 years are strong in spirit–and are in this for the long haul (i.e., until the team finally wins it all).
Dave
April 22nd, 2012
10:32 pm
PATIENCE???? THEY HAVE BEEN IN THE SECOND ROUND AD OUT EVERY YEAR FOR THE PAST WHAT 3 SEASONS? BUNCHA SUCKERS IN THIS TOWN SMH
Lil Fawkers
April 22nd, 2012
10:35 pm
Get the first round over with losers so we can move on. Get a real coach and breakup this group of underachievers finally during offseason.
RA
April 22nd, 2012
10:38 pm
I’m just glad the Hawks played like they had a pair today. For my money, I’d take today’s loss over Friday’s win any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And Joe, I’m sorry, but there are five guys on the floor. If the Hawks are going to win the close ones in the playoffs, sometimes you’re going to need to be the decoy so that one of them can get open shots. Whether they hit them or not is anyone’s guess. Now, here’s the thing, it took two great players playing at the tope of their game to be Atlanta today, and this was the same team that dismantled Celtic (regular) not a week ago. If Atlanta executes on offense the way they did today, and ups the intensity on defense to where I’ve seen them play it, they take out Boston, in less than seven games. If they don’t, they’ll have a long summer to think about it.
B'Red
April 22nd, 2012
10:39 pm
The Hawks get swept in the first round by the Celtics. The Hawks dont have a go to player on their team that can produce when needed.
RA
April 22nd, 2012
10:42 pm
Oh, and if any of the Hawks are reading this blog. Don’t think that you’ll have any type of advantage playing at Phillips in the playoffs. The home crowd is split at best. You’re in it for each other, bottomline.
justahawkfan
April 22nd, 2012
10:42 pm
Jeje if you throw enuff crap on the wall some has got to stick. Keep running those post out some of them are bound to make sense.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
10:42 pm
1st round = have to beat Pierce, KG, Rondo, Ray Allen, Avery and Doc Rivers 4 times.
Those dudes, just like the Knicks and any other team worth a bucket of piss, is not scared of us and will steal a game in our arena.
We are not a scary home team anymore. Sorry folks
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
10:43 pm
Retire Sund!!
You cheerleaders are almost amusing..
RA
April 22nd, 2012
10:43 pm
Sorry B’Red, you’re wrong. This Hawks team is better than the one that beat Orlando last year, and Orlando had more talent last year than Bost does now, and that talent was younger. If the Hawks half step, Boston may take the series, but it won’t be a sweep.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
10:45 pm
“Jeje if you throw enuff crap on the wall some has got to stick. Keep running those post out some of them are bound to make sense.”
1) If you are going to call me out, at least show some semblance of knowledge of the English language. While your writing isn’t as egregious as doc’s, it indicates to me your comments are frivolous at best.
2) Please let me know which posts I made which aren’t making sense to you. I’d be glad to clarify.
RA
April 22nd, 2012
10:47 pm
Here’s a real idea for Hawk’s management. Get that team out of Atlanta and give them to a city that is capable of supporting them. As for Coach Drew, fire him if you want to, but with resources in hand, that man took this team within shouting distance of fourth place in the eastern conference. For my money he’s coach of the year. Fire him if you want. He won’t be out of work long.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 22nd, 2012
10:47 pm
“You have Josh at 26 years, Marvin at 25 years, Al at 25 years, Teague at 22 years, and Joe at 29 years. Take Joe out and remove the bench players and all of the key hawks players are just coming into their prime. Boston has KG 36, Ray Allen 37, Paul Pierece 35, and they only have one NBA title, so I say the chances are going to be good that the Hawks will win the title in the next 3 years.”
Bismack Biyombo, Kemba Walker, Byron Mullens, and Gerald Henderson are pretty young, too, but somehow I doubt that they are going to grow into a champion. You either have the talent or you don’t. The Hawks have enough talent to make it to the conference finals. That’s it.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 22nd, 2012
10:48 pm
JeJe in addition to Adblock Plus I would also recommend getting Lazarus Form Recovery to combat the blog monster.
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
10:49 pm
Got to get my scroll wheel warmed up…The Fal-con Fanatics are about to peek in and throw the stink bombs again…
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
10:49 pm
Joe is 30 and almost 31
SteveW
April 22nd, 2012
10:52 pm
All I got out of today is that we can’t beat the #7 seed who was playing without Chandler and Lin, and we were at Home.
I’m supposed to be pleased by this?
All I saw is what I’ve been concerned about – come playoff time, we can’t beat the good teams this season. Especially not without Al.
Joe Johnson – about 5 years ago you were a scorer that could come close to ‘Melo. You have not been that guy in 4 or 5 years. Quit thinking like you are.
For all I don’t like about ‘Melo – JJ does have it right – he’s a scorer in a scorer’s League. And I dare say if you put him on this Hawks team instead of JJ, we would be better.
And I like JJ.
UGA
April 22nd, 2012
10:52 pm
With a healthy Horford……………this team could very well be the number 2 seed in the East. I honestly believe that. I would bring this whole group back next year regardless after what I have seen. Including Pargo, Green, Ivan, etc. Hinrich may be out, but if he comes back cheap it would be worth looking at.
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
10:53 pm
With this ownership the Hawks aren’t winning jack Genius…
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
10:56 pm
The Hawks had Robotus all of last year and won 46..
If All whatever was healthy the Hawks would still have a major problem that would not be addressed by him. What?
NO RIM PROTECTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEXT……
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
10:57 pm
No point bringing Kirk back.
Biggest concerns are what to do with Teague and Smoove. Smoove won’t resign here unless he gets a freaking fortune (he will EASILY ask for 17M or get it on the open market). Everyone’s salary is going up next year and Teague will want an extension soon. He will be at least 6 mill a year.
ASG better sell this team soon
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
11:00 pm
Even more impressive was the fact that Woody rested his RIM PROTECTOR/ BEST DEFENDER and still got a win on the road against his rival….Huh?
16-6 overall, 8-4 against the winners….
Najeh Davenpoop
April 22nd, 2012
11:01 pm
In the last four years the Hawks have drafted exactly one player who is on the team and contributing. The 2008, 2010, and 2011 first round picks were traded to try to fill the position that the 2009 first round pick is filling.
Four straight years worth of draft picks to address one position. That’s the Hawks.
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
11:04 pm
“Four straight years worth of draft picks to address one position. That’s the Hawks.”
No, thats incompetence from your 32 year GM and his lackluster NBA career….
Retire!
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 22nd, 2012
11:05 pm
LD needs to spend these last 2 games getting our key bench guys minutes. Need Willie and Pargo to step up huge. I’d also extend Kirk’s minutes. Need more from him
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
11:06 pm
IF Woody coached the entire Knick season, his team is the #1 seed…I’m just saying…
Rufus1
April 22nd, 2012
11:16 pm
What do you NEGATIVE bloggers WANT?
Do you want us to be HOPELESS fans like you?
Are you trying to convince us that a team that could go 40-26 SUCKS?
Are you saying that you don’t want the Hawks to make it to the playoffs?
Am I WRONG for cheering for my team?
What is the VALUE in repeating the same NEGATIVE statement…what is the END GAME?
———————————————————————————————————————————–
How many wins are enough against good teams?
If we make to the ECF for 3 straight years, will you change you complaint to 47yrs of not making it to the finals?…If the finals for 3 straight years will it 50yrs of no titles?….WHEN YOU CAN CHANGE THE QUESTION, IT IS HARD TO GET THE ANSWER RIGHT!
What was the question before we made it to the 2nd rd?
Most teams lose to GOOD teams…Most teams feast on BAD teams.
“If you look hard enough, you can always find a flaw”- That Guy with the dirty t-shirt
Good night my friends
Najeh Davenpoop
April 22nd, 2012
11:26 pm
“Am I WRONG for cheering for my team?”
If the so-called negative minded bloggers weren’t cheering their team, they probably wouldn’t be on here every day talking about them. People who don’t like or don’t care about the Hawks don’t waste their time posting on MC’s blog. You are not wrong for cheering your team, but they are not wrong for being realistic either.
Grandad
April 22nd, 2012
11:27 pm
I wish to comment on the game;
but 1st, I need to set things straight with a few characters
who frequent this blog and think they have taken over !
For everyone else:
No, you do not have to join their Gay Pride agenda to
post your opinions on this here blog.
No, you do not have to kiss their ass to express your opinion.
Yes, you can be a Hawks fan,
regardless of how many years since a Championship.
The Red Sox & the Cubs fans are some of the best in the world.
Do not let their smarmy little comments
and smooching with each other cause you to shy away.
Also, to dissent does not mean that you are attacking anyone.
Dissent is purely American.
However, if you wish to be in Club Kiss-Ass;
that is well and good.
That is your privelege as well.
Lastly, the plum puckers have the same rights and priveleges
as we old farts and Jack-Asses on the blog.
So they should be respected as such.
avec tout le respect dû
G-dad
SteveW
April 22nd, 2012
11:34 pm
No team has won the Title in 30 years since Pat Riley said no rebounds, no rings, being less than 19th in the League in rebounding.
The Hawks were about 23rd last I checked.
It’s not looking good.
The only chance I see vs. the Celtics is ZaZa coming in doing his best Buford Pusser imitation, and it spooking the C’s just a little bit.
We shot 15-23 from 3 point land. 54% for the game from the field. At Home. And we lost. I’m supposed to feel good?
At least Orlando is mathmetically eliminated from the 5 seed now. So I guess it’s def. us vs the Celts in Rd. 1. Tough go to get Homecourt however. Today, a win would have helped alot.
SteveW
April 22nd, 2012
11:39 pm
Slim – But they had the worst Coach in the history of any sport in LD last season. He has improved in the playoffs, and this season.
But he was a disaster – This season with Al, we were actually playing pretty decent.
Slimjr
April 22nd, 2012
11:54 pm
I believe if the Hawks had won today, they would have cliched the Home court..That’ s how huge this loss was today! HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Clippers and Dallas are coming! They wont be resting and laying down either…
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
12:01 am
We need to win 1 game to clinch home court advantage. Miami will beat Boston for sure this time.
Slimjr
April 23rd, 2012
12:01 am
LD lucked out SteveW…Orlando was missing Pietrus, Matt Barnes, Vince Carter and Gortat! These guys were match up nightmares for our Hawks and owned them…Had won 7 of the previous 8..
Larry would have been swept too..He should have sent the Orlando GM some of his playoff winnings! Hehehehe
Melvin
April 23rd, 2012
12:05 am
“Kings executives will entertain trade offers for Tyreke Evans this summer, and they should. Evans remains a major asset. His team remains in a major funk. ”
I would trade AL to the Kings for Tyreke Evans & Jason Thompson. The Kings are under the cap so the salaries do not have to match. Hawks could play Tyreke at SG and Joe at SF. He would be another consistent scorer the Hawks desperately needs along side Joe, Josh and Teague. Thompson would be another big coming off the bench with Ivan.Hawks would also save money depending on how much they could sign Thompson for since he would be a restricted free agent. Kings could pair Horford alongside Cousins.
Slimjr
April 23rd, 2012
12:06 am
Orlando also did not have Rashad Lewis who used to be a Hawk killer too…
Larry gets way too much credit, but so be it.
Slimjr
April 23rd, 2012
12:10 am
Clippers on a 20-4 run last 6:35 in the 4th!
9-4! Train wreck coming I sense?
Slimjr
April 23rd, 2012
12:26 am
CP3= 33 and 18! Incredible!
Still had a better night than Marvin! lol!
Big Lou
April 23rd, 2012
12:45 am
LOL
You guys don’t get what Joe’s saying.
He’s talking about the predictable play-calling from LD.
Remember the three Joe made? How did he get open for that? Oh, I know… THEY RAN A F!CKING SCREEN TO GET HIM OPEN. As for the other possessions, they have him try to make a play by himself. That’s stupid basketball. ISO Joe is the real issue, not Joe taking the last shot.
Let me ask you this… WHY THE F!CK was Joe in-bounding the last play anyways? Why didn’t they set up screens for him to get free?
Yeah, Joe missed shots in the fourth quarters, but so did Carmelo. That didn’t stop Woody from going to him. Joe had a better efficiency than Melo, as well.
Josh didn’t do sh!t today and it shows. Don’t try to protect that idiot. The guy turned over the ball FIVE times, had horrible offensive efficiency, and allowed Amare to punk him. Heck, even Teague stepped up to that fool more than Josh. He tackled that bum to the ground!
Anyways, still an entertaining game. I can’t wait for the playoffs.
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
12:49 am
Marvin awakened his inner dog tonite!!!
It was a poodle.
I couldn’t resist, sorry – he played his obligatory 2 or 3 20+ pt. games per season tonite.
Now if he could keep it up…
I’m not holding my breath .
TMACfan
April 23rd, 2012
12:54 am
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/18773030/video-clippers-f-reggie-evans-executes-flop-of-the-year-against-hornets
If anyone wants a laugh…
Dave
April 23rd, 2012
2:59 am
“Get the first round over with losers so we can move on. Get a real coach and breakup this group of underachievers finally during offseason.”
PASS THE COLLECTION PLATE, THERES A PREACHER IN THE BUILDING. GRANNY PASSED OUT UP FRONT LOL
Lil Mikey
April 23rd, 2012
3:01 am
“…IF Woody coached the entire Knick season, his team is the #1 seed…I’m just saying…” – Slimjr
Drugs.
Lil Mikey
April 23rd, 2012
3:04 am
“…I would trade AL to the Kings for Tyreke Evans & Jason Thompson…”
Definitely drugs. For a lockerroom headache and career underachiever? lol Sund-esque type move
vava74
April 23rd, 2012
3:23 am
Annoying loss, but not much more than that.
Lack of coaching and a series of bad calls and non-calls derailed us.
Also, Josh reverts back to his old self for TWO matches and everyone is ready to dismiss him, forgetting that he has been carrying this team throughout the year??
Calm down people. If continues to go astray from what he did well during the season, you can criticize him, but not after two games (you cannot also forget that bad calls usually make him lose his focus and there were plenty of those yesterday).
These guys already know that they are locked up with the Celtics and its normal that their effort on D would be suspect.
On JJ:
JJ should be called into LD’s office – if LD had a brain – to tell him that he will be the man for the last shot, BUT ONLY AFTER BALL MOVEMENT.
JJ can’t be serious after those last two possessions and needs a reality check.
It’s not that his ISO play is completely ineffective, but it is simply NOT GOOD enough to be the scheme to close games every single possession.
This is on LD (again).
Also, how can an ISO play feature Josh at the three point line?
We have the tools, but we do not have the coach to make it work.
Yesterday was the battle of the perennial assistants and won the team with the better ISO scorer and the refs assistance.
That’s it.
Finally: poor Marvin, he does not have any basketball awareness in his bones. If had popped, we would have won easily because from 10 feet he would have not missed the shot.
Lil Mikey
April 23rd, 2012
4:32 am
You Josh apologist are ALWAYS blaming the coach! When are you going to stop babying him? He’s a CAPTAIN, makes 13 MILLION and whines about ALL STARS SNUBS more than PLAYOFFS BLOWOUTS.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
7:46 am
LD and Joe need to have a chat.
But they won’t, because LD never holds Joe accountable
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 23rd, 2012
7:49 am
Steve
Finally: poor Marvin, he does not have any basketball awareness in his bones. If had popped, we would have won easily because from 10 feet he would have not missed the shot.
*****
did the guy not even look at clock as he was driving to hoop?????? He was DIRECTLY in front of it
Eric T
April 23rd, 2012
8:02 am
Ok If Josh attacks the rim quickly and on a regular basis the hawks can win an NBA title!
E43
April 23rd, 2012
8:32 am
How is it that some are crying about Joe Johnson. Joe has the most complete game in every phase. The problem is his teammates get into trouble and then all of a sudden don’t want anything to do with the ball.
Example was against the celtics. Hinrich passes the ball to Teague with the shot clock running down. Teague makes no attempt to even dribble, he then passes the rock right back to hinrich? Perfect opportunity to drive or attempt to get something. That way he can say the clock ran out. He passed it to hinrich who dribbled for a few steps and clanked a mid range shot. He essentially forces hinrich whoi gives Teague the ball because hes the fastest to get to the rim into forcing a long shot.
Another example is that same game when Josh is running a break on his weak side. Nothing was going to happen out of the play but he dumps the ball off to hinrich and the defense is already set. He dumps the ball off early and you just might’ve had a 3 pointer somewhere.
Alternative to both situations is to start pargo instead of hinrich because pargo can make a bucket with inches and he is quicker than Kirk.
If your going to complain about ISO joe bogging down the offense then Smith and Teague should be held accountable for things when they break down the offense. Pargo and Green find their way onto the court in crunch time because they can be held accountable for their possessions in the clutch.
It takes 5 to take the court. I’ll take ISO joe and his issues because he makes the right decisions and doesnt just dump the ball off when he gets in trouble. It’s the other 4 guys that need to be studied more before the playoffs. If anything, Joe needs to be benched the next two games. Maybe even bench Willie Green as well because he knows his role and has been consistent.
Let Teague-hinrich-smith*-Ivan*-Zaza* try to figure things out in the 2 upcoming games. This way we can bring horford off the bench at PF if he is ready vs Dallas. We would also have time to get both mcgrady and stack some warm up minutes without loosing competitiveness. I think they will gain more by resting joe and Willie. Besides, home court in Atlanta is not saying much.
rollow lawson
April 23rd, 2012
9:30 am
E43 at 8:32am and Big Lou at 12:45 am:
HAMMER MEET NAIL!!!!
You are exactly right in your summation on the situation regarding this coaching staff and Joe Johnson. Run plays in crunchtime to get Joe the ball to make a play. And I’m not talking about Iso-Joe. That is not a play!!
When Joe got good looks, he was knocking down shots. When he was double teamed he consistently found the open man. I get where Joe is coming from. Larry Drew gets out-coached constantly. He is afraid to call Josh out when he is playing out of control. But he goes out of his way to scold Teague when he makes a mistake. This team has know direction and that is Larry Drew’s fault.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
10:09 am
“If your going to complain about ISO joe bogging down the offense then Smith and Teague should be held accountable for things when they break down the offense. Pargo and Green find their way onto the court in crunch time because they can be held accountable for their possessions in the clutch.”
It is important to make a distinction between Joe and iso-Joe. Joe is a person, iso-Joe is a play. I don’t think there’s anyone here who doesn’t want Joe taking shots in crunch time. The problem is that on a consistent basis, he makes those shots at a higher rate when someone else creates the shot for him than when he has to create it himself in an isolation situation.
As for Teague, I will always hold a 10 year veteran more responsible for a breakdown than a guy who hasn’t even started for a full season.
KevinM
April 23rd, 2012
10:31 am
LD and Marvin have something in common: both think he is better than Marvin really is….again I ask…has Marvin EVER had the ball in his hands the last possession of a game? Everyone here should have known the results. There was no foul, and of all the possessions in the game, Marvin decides to penetrate on the final possession. His IQ is not in question by me.
The game was back and forth, and we all know, we make some teams look better than they are. The Knicks are no better than last year’s group that got swept by the Celtics.
Give me Josh on Melo all day and move Marvin to Baron Davis. Melo knew he could deliver on Marvin, and that folks is coaching strategy, nothing more.
As I said earlier, we need Zaza against Boston, or it will be a fast exit. It may be anyway, because what has Zaza exerted since his injury?
Going into this week, we should just enjoy the last 2 games and keep everyone involved, even if that includes Collins and Dampier.
vava74
April 23rd, 2012
10:35 am
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
10:09 am
Co-sign.
The bottom line is simple: we have been competitive in most of our losses.
Came up short over and over due to poor coaching.
That gives me SOME comfort going forward since it’s not impossible that we manage to play well and win games in the playoffs against the same teams against who we lost.
Difficult, but not impossible with that fool on the bench, since he is not devoid of some play calling.
That final play was a good play, which worked last year and almost worked yesterday.
Unfortunately, Marvin has not been placed on that situation before last night and his lack of court/shot clock awareness was exposed.
He should have popped and shot that damn ball from the free throw line.
Also, is it me (who hasn’t been watching whole games recently) or LD has shut down the zone D to close the season?
I think he may be keeping some of his cards close to the chest for the playoffs (an imbecile move, if you ask me).
KevinM
April 23rd, 2012
10:49 am
Is it me or is LD not trying to win EVERY game? Is he still experimenting the last week of the season?
That’s what I love about LD. He tries to win when he doesn’t give it his all. He tries to ‘keep’ some of his special go-to strategies for the playoffs.
We have a chance against Boston if we have HC and if we can close them out in 7.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
10:51 am
RA
April 22nd, 2012
10:38 pm
For my money, I’d take today’s loss over Friday’s win any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
______________________
No wonder we’re called “Losersville.”
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
10:53 am
Jeff Teague has more Steals and Blocks this season than Joe Johnson ever has, and that after only 64 games.
Not to minimize JJ, whom I like – just sayin’ – trying to keep it real.
Teague’s played every game also. He’s still trying to be a PG on this team, with two alpha dogs above him on the pecking order. That’s why he defers. It’s in his nature to take over games if you’ve ever seen him when he played at Wake. Here, he gets called out for it by JJ and Josh. Then when he doesn’t take over games, he gets called out by some bloggers for being scared, no confidence etc.
Nope, he’s just trying to adjust to his role as facilitator and not alpha male.
And after watching Teague this year, I’m mad we ever traded Jason Terry. I was mad when we traded him. I knew it was the wrong move, but I kept trying to convince myself Hawks brass knew more than me. Same with the Gasol trade. I liked Shareef. But something told me that was the wrong move.
Teague is a slightly lesser version of Jason Terry to me. Games aren’t identical, but they’re similar.
Let’s not make the same mistake and let JT2 out of here. He’ll be a decent player in this League. Already is really, but seems to want to keep improving based on his obvious offseason work ethic.
I’d take his brother on this team as well if he’s available. They are 5 years apart in age. So when Jeff’s 29, he can turn the reins over to little bro’ at 24, and become the backup. Marquis would be pretty good in a Jamal/Flip/JC2 role.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
10:55 am
SteveW
April 22nd, 2012
10:52 pm
All I got out of today is that we can’t beat the #7 seed who was playing without Chandler and Lin, and we were at Home.
I’m supposed to be pleased by this?
_________________________
Nope, and it’s good to see that you’re not. Too many around here dimishing the importance of a win vs a loss.
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
11:00 am
Tyreke Evans is a good BB player. I just don’t know if he’s got that drive to improve and stay in shape the way JJ, Josh, Teague and Al have.
That’s what I like about those 4 guys BTW, despite all the negatives we can lard on them. They improve and train like crazy in the off season, and that culture is fantastic for a team. It breeds it on the other guys.
So if we thought Tyreke could buy into that, I’d take him in a heartbeat. Dudes got game. But he does make Josh look like Reggie Miller from the 3point line.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
11:03 am
“Also, is it me (who hasn’t been watching whole games recently) or LD has shut down the zone D to close the season?
I think he may be keeping some of his cards close to the chest for the playoffs (an imbecile move, if you ask me).”
Yeah, I haven’t seen much zone recently. I don’t mind him playing it close to the vest, though, because you know that Doc is going to be prepared for anything LD throws at him. The more tricks LD has up his sleeve, the more time the Hawks can buy before the Celtics start figuring out what they are doing.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 23rd, 2012
11:05 am
I like the idea of trading Al for a small forward, but I don’t know if Evans is a great fit on this team. He seems to be the type that needs to dominate the ball to have success. With the emergence of Isaiah Thomas, Marcus Thornton, and DeMarcus Cousins this season, if Evans was able to play off the ball, we would have seen his numbers stay the same and his efficiency increase. He hasn’t been as consistent or efficient as he should have been.
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
11:07 am
Our guys came into camp in good shape, except MC said Al was a little overweight marrying Ms. Universe and all I guess.
That’s why our winning % is .594 this season and it was .536 last season, even though we lost Al. That, and Teague giving us an athletic PG.
I like our core because of that. Now if it would ever rub off on Marvin…
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
11:12 am
I just don’t look at Tyreke as a 3. And I wouldn’t trade Al for him straight up either. Now Al and our 1st pick for Tyeke and their lottery pick, I may take a look at.
I’d play Tyreke as 3rd G. Or start him, and bring Teague off the bench as the 3rd G.
Rusty
April 23rd, 2012
11:13 am
One major problem the hawks have besides LD is JJ. Down the stretch he plays iso basketball ,as shown before the hawks might win 2 games out of 10. He just takes the team out of rhythm wenth he is dribbling the ball with the cloak running down. This team will never win as long as we keep going into iso Joe mode with 5 minutes left in the game. I guess we ca. Also blame that on LD as he always let’s that happen.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
11:16 am
KevinM
April 23rd, 2012
10:31 am
Going into this week, we should just enjoy the last 2 games and keep everyone involved, even if that includes Collins and Dampier.
____________________________
We SHOULD enjoy the last 2 games, yes; hopefully the team will make that possible by winning them.
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
11:19 am
Another thing I like about Tyreke, he’s only 22 so he’s got a long career ahead of him if he’ll “get it”.
cp
April 23rd, 2012
11:21 am
Yea Tyreke has to dominate the ball to be successful plus he cant shoot. He doesnt look like the same guy from his rookie season. They say he is a locker room cancer too. Dude has talent but he hasnt turned into the player many thought he would be so far. Im also not a fan of Jason Thompsons game. I still think the Hawks will try and move Josh or Al during the draft. I dont know how high of a pick they would get for either but I think they will try and move one of them. Maybe a team like the Nets would be willing to give up their pick for say Josh so they could convince DWill to stay. Hard to say what will happen with this front office I wouldnt be surprised if they brought everyone back and talk about how injuries kept them from being as good as they could have been.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
11:24 am
Najeh Davenpoop
April 22nd, 2012
11:26 pm
“Am I WRONG for cheering for my team?”
If the so-called negative minded bloggers weren’t cheering their team, they probably wouldn’t be on here every day talking about them. People who don’t like or don’t care about the Hawks don’t waste their time posting on MC’s blog. You are not wrong for cheering your team, but they are not wrong for being realistic either.
________________________
Rock-solid response to yet another SCREAMER.
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
11:26 am
Boston’s off season:
Sign Asik as a FA. Can’t see Chicago matching a decent offer. The Bulls payroll is shot.
Start:
Asik
Bass
Peirce
Bradley
Rondo
Bench: Green at F (if he comes back), and they have picks #23 and 24 in this years draft.
And they will be a tough team with Doc coaching. And have a ton of cap space moving forward.
SteveW
April 23rd, 2012
11:30 am
I keep thinking Detroit is going to try and give up their lottery pick for Josh, so they can pair Josh and Monroe together in the Frontcourt.
But who knows, we may try to build around Josh (if he’ll stay) Al, and JJ, with ZaZa and Teague as pieces around them.
After this injury, I think Al’s full time C days are over. Spot minutes yes, But full time, no.
Bravesfan79
April 23rd, 2012
11:34 am
SlimJR: YEA RIGHT! Better overall record that Chicago? No team with melo will ever bring that intensity night in and night out to have the best record in the league. And im hoping Orlando wins at least 1 more game so we can be treated to a exciting Knicks/ Heat 1st round playoff series. One thing for sure, Orlando/ Miami would be very boring. And i dunno about anyone else, but im pulling hard for the Suns to get that 8 seed out west so i can see Nash do his thing 1 more time.
justahawkfan
April 23rd, 2012
11:49 am
JeJe (Gone MAd) You understood my post, did you not? I guess it wasn’t really that bad. Not to get into a contest with you because I dont’t have that much free time. My life gets in the way. I’m suprise yours don’t. You have to admit that you are a quantity poster, not neccessarilly a quality poster. You have random thoughts and you post them all, somtime in ALL CAPS. Your make predictions are often wrong and usually against the home team. You have fired all the coaches and traded all the players at least once or twice. This is a blog and you do have right to post as many times as you wish but maybe you should consider how it looks to the other bloggers.
Things you should consider before posting; 1. how many time I’ve posted in the last hour 2. how many times have repeated myself in last hour, 3. Did I miss my therapist appointment. and 4. Do (GM) really mean Gone Mad
Bravesfan79
April 23rd, 2012
11:57 am
DawgNole: When was the last championship for Ga football or basketball ? Over 30 years ago! Go root for the clippers and see how far that takes ya.
doc
April 23rd, 2012
12:00 pm
ill go with the mantra a win is a win. i wont go for it was a good loss. this team has a huge monkey on its back, along with jj, for not performing under pressure in big games. they lost another on yesterday. in my opinion the monkey got heavier. sorry, no excuses.
as i said yesterday, the bar to get over to win big games just got higher, not lower, as with each close loss it becomes harder to win. anyone with a background playing sports knows this or the least amount of knowledge of sports psychology. unfortunately, for them to get over the bar is going to take a huge win where they break it down in a big way. i dont see it happening from these guys when you hear jj complaining, he wasnt getting the ball, rather than saying, i still didnt deliver and it is on me, for the umpteenth time.
Dawg
April 23rd, 2012
12:09 pm
The offense can not run through JJ. He makes everything stagnant. He is great at moving without the ball and taking a pass but the offense boggs down if he dominates the ball.
Big Ray
April 23rd, 2012
12:21 pm
Can’t get into a shootout with a team like the Knicks. They have two bonafide STARS in Anthony and Stoudamire, and a former one in Baron Davis who is still very dangerous.
Marvin Williams had an exceptional game. Won’t see another like that for about a year, most likely. Josh had several games like that since the all-star snub….
Speaking of Josh, the Hawks still don’t get it. They have a (finally) budding star and once Joe is healthy, they seem to have problems consistently going to him. Joe was once head and shoulders above everybody else on the team. Not so anymore, and he’s not even what he once was.
Basically equal number of shots between Joe, Jeff, Josh, and Marvin. Josh struggles and is the low man. But look at Joe, Marvin, and Jeff. Joe was least efficient of the three.
Joe is still a heck of a player. But NOT for the money we’re paying him. Get him outta here, or watch us struggle with identity even more when Horford returns (next season). Josh is the man, Jeff has basically arrived, and Marvin still needs to be a bench guy in most cases…let Horford work his way back in or trade him if a good Center situation arrives. But get Joe out. He represents the past, and has issues reintegrating into what is now the future.
doc
April 23rd, 2012
12:27 pm
big ray, as i said before the game, we might be playing right into their hands by trying to go small ball on them. shootouts are for folks who have hired hands whose hands are steady when it comes down to the last minute. we dont have anyone like that on our team.
Big Ray
April 23rd, 2012
12:31 pm
Just look at the last 7 or 8 losses. In each one (except when we lost to Boston 79-76) and you see where Joe is SO much less efficient than Josh from game to game. In fact, Josh has outplayed Joe for more than a month now.
We’ll see what happens in the playoffs. Better hope the Celtics are too old to support the pride they’re gonna have, and that Teague can help slow Rondo down. Otherwise, it’s a first round loss. Especially without help from Horford down low (rebounds, defense, double figure scoring, energy).
Big Ray
April 23rd, 2012
12:32 pm
Doc,
You are so right.
Catch y’all later.
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
12:40 pm
Bravesfan79
April 23rd, 2012
11:57 am
DawgNole: When was the last championship for Ga football or basketball ? Over 30 years ago! Go root for the clippers and see how far that takes ya.
____________________
When a poster has little if anything of substance to bring to a blog, he posts irrelevancies when he would’ve been better off posting nothing.
Congratulations, Mr. Irrelevant.
doc
April 23rd, 2012
12:49 pm
big ray i think it would be great to find a buyer no mater the terms to move jj on. he has fewer and fewer big games and they come against the dregs. again to me though there may be stats to dispute it that he can be a first half guy or a last half guy but never carries the greatness through a full game like a true superstar can. example was his first half against the depleted celts was great, some adjustment was made and he became a non-factor. in big series good coaches learn how to stop him and do it if it os going to affect the outcome.
like vava has used the jamal idea that he was an addiction for ld, it still is for ld, as it as for woody, to use jj at the end of games even though he cant do it on his own. he does not have the ability to consistently create his own shot because like the best receiver in football who cant create separation, he is no good because he cant create separation whenever he needs it nor make the contested shot in close quarters. he isnt as good as he was 7 yrs ago and as much as i hate to say it he isnt the second coming of paul pierce nor will he. he is a good ballplayer just not a money player; the closest we got to that is josh. selah.
doc
April 23rd, 2012
12:50 pm
or creates echoes.
Rod from College Park
April 23rd, 2012
12:52 pm
The playoffs are coming. Winning percentages during the regular season will mean nothing. We won’t be playing the NJ Nets in the playoffs. Marvin won’t score 26 points in a playoff game. Most playoff teams have hired assasins. Guys that want the last shot, like Melo, Wade, Rose, Kobe Durant, Pierce…. We have Joe Johnson. We had a guy like that (assasin) in Jamal Crawford, but we did not want to pay him. Boston in 4, no more than 5.
Pargo needs major minutes in the playoffs. I don’t know how, but he has that killer mentality that is needed to be successful in playoff games. He also does not seen to feel like he has to defer to anyone on this team. If he is open, he takes tha shot.
O'brien
April 23rd, 2012
12:52 pm
Vava,
you cannot also forget that bad calls usually make him lose his focus and there were plenty of those yesterday.
Don’t you think there will be bad calls going up against the Celtics in the playoffs? So should we expect (and be ok with) Josh losing his focus if that happens?
5 rebs from Josh against the Knicks is terrible. And he had 7 turnovers against the Boston reserves (and 5 yesterday). I like what he has done this year, but he needs to be mentally tougher. Doc Rivers will find a way to get inside his head.
northcyde
April 23rd, 2012
12:52 pm
Big Ray….. So how is this team better without JJ? Getting rid of JJ means trading him for a bunch of expiring contracts. Meanwhile, you lose your best perimeter scorer AND perimeter defender on the team. Who do you trade him for? Tyreke Evans?
Trading JJ is the same as trading Smith or Horford. If you’re not getting close to their talent level back in return, you’re basically going into give up mode.
And another thing. What evidence is there that Smith is ready to be “the man”? He’s scoring more, but taking a lot, a lot of shots to get those points. And without the ability to score in the post down the stretch of games, who do you go to?
For all of the hatred of ISO JJ, hd’s 8th in the league in ckutch scoring points per 48 minutes, and is shooting 47% during that time frame. But perception is reality around these parts.
doc
April 23rd, 2012
12:53 pm
Blog Troll 73 up, 30 down
1.(n) -A pathetic and moronic person who maintains a blog with an unhealthy obsessive-compulsive drive, especially angsty goths (sorry to all the likeable goths out there). The content of their blogs usually includes events that no sane person would care about. Here’s sample of what a blog troll might write on their blog:
“today, I ate a sanwich. It bad – it was just ok, mediocre, I guess you could call it. After that I read a few chapters out of an Anne Rice book and was deeply moved by her erotic descriptions of gay vampires fornicating. . Then I took a nap.
2.(n) -A depraved individual who sits in front of a computer all day and posts flames of an idiotic or pseudo-intellectual nature on public forums and private websites. Many of these people actually become emotional about what is said on the afore-said mediums and feel it is their duty to punish those who disagree with them. They too may pursue this object in an obsessive-compulsive manner.
doc
April 23rd, 2012
1:03 pm
northcyde, can you break it down to opponent and how good he is in the clutch. sorry, i dont feel it. maybe it is as much his crybaby demeanor when he doesnt deliver and blames it on the others for not getting the ball in his hands after a close loss when he didnt deliver rather than say, i didnt get the job done. yes, he can really ball against the detroit’s but not so much against the boston’s is my observation. again, it may be only my perception based on his lackadaisical non-accountabilty role, just like in josh, it is his demeanor that folks dont like rather than his game. what about a breakdown in the close losses against the cream that i think, he just doesnt get er dun? perception or realty?
Astro Joe
April 23rd, 2012
1:06 pm
By definition of their positions, most SGs are less efficient than a PF. The 5th best PF would always be more efficient than the 5th ranked SG (as an example). Paul Millsap is probably more efficient than D-Wade, so what? It is a function of where they shoot. Childress shot over 55% for the Hawks and fans hated him. Horford shot around 54% last season and somehow, he has become among the most dispised player on the squad. I suspect that the Hawks are very close to a .500 team when Josh leads them in scoring. I’m sure some will be fine with watching the Hawks win around 45 games as long as Josh is the main cog. But will that be enough for him to stay (”I’ll stay and be a 7th seeded team as long as I get the bulk of the shots”).
Josh had a phenomenal month of March, when the Hawks were essentially a .500 team. The most recent mediocrity the Hawks are showing (IMO) is due to Zaza’s absence… or more generally, the absence of a quality big (i.e., Horford or Zaza). When Ivan plays well, the Hawks are able to win, when he has a rookie-type game, the Hawks lose. Yesterday, we got nothing from the C position and gave up over 110 points. If the Hawks have to score more than 110 points to win a game, the problem isn’t one of offensive efficiency (especially when the Hawks go for ~110).
J
April 23rd, 2012
1:15 pm
Brian – “the east is so weak” … really? Tell that to Boston/Chicago/Miami/Indiana. Making a comment like that just makes you look like a fool.
northcyde
April 23rd, 2012
1:19 pm
The fact is that we need as much talent on this team as possible. Unless people want to just go into rebuild mode, the Hawks just can’t arbitrarily trade off pieces. Even when the Smith rumors were rampant, I was talking about trading him for a comparable talent, like a Pau Gasol. I’m not trading Smith for Omer Asik.
The fact that JJ has had some bad games in our losses actually illustrates that he’s needed as much as ever.
The other thing that’s not being talked about, is that Josh has basically been the #1 offensive option since the All-Star break.
Josh is averaging 19.1 shots per game, scoring 21.7 points since the All-Star break, by far tops on the team. JJ is averaging 15.4 shots per game, scoring 20.2 points So JJ is already functioning as the #2 guy.
So if Smith wants to be the man, it is HE that has to do more, especially in crunch time. Otherwise, the Hawks need as much talent on the floor as possible. With our opponent being for certain being Boston now, people simply have to step up and get the job done as a team. If it comes down to individual performances, these are the numbers vs Boston
Johnson: 23.7 ppg – 4.7 rebs – 3.7 asst – 0.3 blks – 0.7 stls – 48% FG ( 17.3 shots/gm ) – 50% 3FG ( 7 – 14 ) – 86% FT ( 12 – 14 )
Smith: 16.3 ppg – 11.3 rebs – 5 asst – 1.7 blks – 1.7 stls – 39% FG ( 18.7 shots/gm ) – 13% 3FG ( 1 – 8 FG ) – 80% FT ( 4 – 5 )
Despite whomever the team’s offense should revolve around, Boston does not fear Josh Smith. They fear Joe Johnson. Because of this, JJ should get a plethora of defensive looks thrown at him. This “should” enable Smith to face one on one coverage most of the series.
The question is . . if Boston does everything they can to shut down JJ, can Josh ( and others ) deliver?
northcyde
April 23rd, 2012
1:21 pm
My bad . . JJ averages 23 ppg vs Boston. Not 23.7 ppg
Astro Joe
April 23rd, 2012
1:22 pm
doc, I think your perception is reality. But I aslo think the personality (and contract) continues to cloud the issue. In the world of “you are who you are”, the Hawks are 2 games away from finishing as the 4th seed after playing the vast majority of the year without their All-Star center. IMO, Joe deserves some credit for that accomplishment. Josh gets a lot, so does Zaza, Teague and heaven forbid, the head coach and GM who built a better 1-14 roster than we’ve seen in a decade. But if memory goes beyond tjust the month of March, then Joe gets a fair share of the love for a surprisingly successful regular season.
O'brien
April 23rd, 2012
1:23 pm
Rod,
If Pargo and/or Green or hot, I think they will get minutes, especially late in the game when Teague tightens up.
Doc,
JJ is known for spouting off to the media. But I wonder if he says anything to his teammates and his coach, which is what a leader should do.
Astro Joe
April 23rd, 2012
1:25 pm
northcyde, what is the Hawks record since the All-Star game?
northcyde
April 23rd, 2012
1:28 pm
Astro . . and to drive home your point, Wade leads all SGs in efficiency at 22. However, that is .1 behind David Lee’s 22.1 efficiency rating, who is 5th among PFs.
And I also agree that the thing that will carry us through the playoffs will be DEFENSE, not offense. If the Hawks are having trouble scoring, they have to buckle down on the other end and prevent their opponent from scoring. And that means playing good on the ball defense, and securing defensive rebounds.
Scoop
April 23rd, 2012
1:29 pm
@MC
Why was there no mention of how poor Josh played? 5-13 with 5 TURNOVERS!!!!!!!!!!! R u kidding me????????? For a wannabe all-star to come up that short in a ‘playoff’ type game is a joke.
This game epitomizes Josh as a player to me. He is soft, in a nutshell. The Knicks INTENTIONALLY put a smaller player on him (a guard no less) and Josh still settled. Except when he spun and got the and-1 against Landry Fields. Twice with J.R. Smith on him, he let J.R. push him to the baseline FROM THE TOP OF THE KEY and steal he pass to him!!!!!TWICE!!!!!!
The other times J.R. was on Josh he drifted to the three point line and was content to pass the ball!!!!!
Plus, Josh is lazy on the pick and rolls, offensively and defensively. Offensively, he sets weak, shadow picks and a lot of times just moves to the block to get the ball. Defensively is worse. He doesn’t hedge to give his teammate time to get over and then get back to his own defender. Josh does the worst thing possible-he sits in the middle, gives the ball handler an ocean of space and is content to just switch it and leave his teammate out to dry.
Also, Josh NEVER boxes out. He relies too much on his athleticism to get rebounds and then complains for a whistle when he gives up an offensive rebound.
As a fan, I’m angry because the Hawks played like they wanted this game. Marvin did EVERYTHING you could ask of him IMO. He had an incredible night. Teague was outstanding defensively and distributing the bball. Teague set the stage early with those steals and his aggressiveness. Joe made some big threes late and played a good game. But Josh came up short in the clutch and it’s happening consistently.
Josh should stop trying to be Lebron and bringing the ball up the court and focus on the little things like boxing out, pick and roll defense, reducing turnovers, and shot selection. If he just did those the Hawks would go a long way…….
northcyde
April 23rd, 2012
1:37 pm
Record of Hawks since the All-Star game: 18 – 12
E43
April 23rd, 2012
1:41 pm
“The problem is that on a consistent basis, he makes those shots at a higher rate when someone else creates the shot for him than when he has to create it himself in an isolation situation.”
See now that’s exactly what the problem is. There are too many guys with very selective aggressiveness. It would help if the hawks had the size and speed to play possum and then go for the unsuspecting jugular.
Joe is aggressive all day everyday with his shot. Not to break a record but Josh would be fine if he was a SF in my opinion. Why? Because the competition dictates too much whether or not that ball falls.He should be shooting close to 55% and I think he can do that lining up against SF’s more often. I feel like having a C and PF in front of him brings better shot selection because guys like Ivan and Zaza wont go perimeter and if they do it wont be just for the sake of doing so.
I also feel like the same thing that happens to Joe against defensive SF’s like Pietrus is the same thing that happens to Josh Smith against PF’s like Garnett. Obviously the celtics don’t have enough matchup advantages to obliterate the hawks, LD should really keep the in game adjustments rolling enough to keep Doc from keying in and studying our weaknesses. I think this would be a good series or maybe even playoffs for the Hawks to not shorten their rotation and try anything different they’re comfortable with.
O'brien
April 23rd, 2012
1:42 pm
northcyde,
To me, coaching is the bigger problem when it comes to late game execution. At the end of the game, we need our HC to design a play for Josh, or to design a better play for JJ. But we havent seen it very often. Too often it’s iso-JJ, or run another play for somebody else.
And losing JJ Does not make the Hawks a better team. But isn’t it possible that by taking one step back, the Hawks may take 2 steps forward in another year or so (if we had a good GM).
And JJ has been good against Boston this year, Josh not so much. But I think most of JJ’s clutch stats are from playing the Detroits, Washington, Cleveland etc.
I think Josh will struggle against Boston, so we will need the JJ from thr 4th quarter playoff game in ‘08 to show up.
vava74
April 23rd, 2012
1:42 pm
Josh coasted these past couple of games.
His statement after the NYK game is telling (”…it’s not that we were run off the building…”).
I AM NOT JUSTIFYING HIS POOR PERFORMANCES, but I don’t think we saw Josh’s best effort.
Also, as discussed above, LD has not been using zone D consistently after using it substantially at the beginning of the year.
I think that in close quarters the message inside the locker room is: “lets give a decent effort and try and get the most wins without risking injury and disclosing too much of our strategy”.
AGAIN, I DON’T AGREE WITH THIS, but seems to be the mind set coming from the head honcho himself, LD and Josh seems to be the biggest culprit at taking the foot off the pedal.
northcyde
April 23rd, 2012
1:44 pm
Record vs current playoff teams since the All-Star break: 6 – 8
KevinM
April 23rd, 2012
1:49 pm
Let’s talk 2 seconds on Al: If he does come back, you think he’s coming back to fight in the paint? He will have his face to the basket offense in high gear. No way he plays balls-to-the-wall this year.
We need Ivan and Zaza inside more than Al to come back. We’ve made it this far without him.
So 1 win gets us HC for the playoffs? We better get it on Tuesday, as the pressure will be too great during the last game.
E43
April 23rd, 2012
1:49 pm
Northclyde- I’m not familiar with this cosign phenomena or what it means I guess I cosign your 1:19PM post.
KevinM
April 23rd, 2012
1:58 pm
Speaking on David Lee, has he ever played on a winning team in the pros?
His college teams always underperformed. I saw Kenneth Faried give him a post up clinic on THE ASSOCIATION last week.
northcyde
April 23rd, 2012
2:00 pm
Vava, the fact that you had to say that, means that you’re actually doing just that.
Yesterday’s game was a game tailor made for Josh to dominate, and he didn’t. And why would he coast, when he knows ( or should know ) that this team is playing for home court advantage vs Boston? The last thing I want to see in that series, is a Game 7 @ Boston. That would literally be going into the pit of Hell right there.
Like I said, if that dude wants to be “the man”, then a lot is going to be expected of him. That’s why JJ can’t get mad when people call him out. He’s looked to, and paid to be “the man”. So he must deliver.
And Scoop makes a great point about Josh. If he did the fundamental little things on a nightly basis, that dude would be a monster, and might even lead the league in rebounding. I’ve always thought he could be an 11 – 12 rebound a game guy, if he simply boxed out.
And I disagree with you when you say that Drew is taking his foot off the pedal. Drew is the main one trying to keep these guys playing at a high level going into the playoffs. He damn near had a meltdown last year, with the way they entered the playoffs, and was skeptical that they could just “turn it on” ( which they did ).
Nothing easy for Josh next game either. Blake Griffin comes to town, along with Deandre Jordan. They will fight us to the death to win that division and get the 3rd seed over the Lakers. Hope his foot isn’t still “off the pedal”. We need him playing at a high level, at least on the boards and on the defensive end.
northcyde
April 23rd, 2012
2:04 pm
@ Scoop 1:29
The bad thing is, if you see this as a fan, you KNOW coaches see this about Josh. That’s why the perception of him is somewhat negative, despite his All-Star caliber talent. It’s unfortunate too.
doc
April 23rd, 2012
2:05 pm
aj, agreed. in spite of a counter culture here, some things have gone right this year in a big way and should be recognized and lauded against where i thought this team would be and it certainly was not in the ecf. they have played well and probably to their skill set max. does this equate to going further? i dont think so and said so at the beginning of the season we were on a down slope where we might actually perform better during the season in numbers but have an earlier exit in the playoffs. i dont want to pay for this, so with every close loss, i tend to want to keep my dollars in my pocket.
remember, a few years ago i suggested to trade josh to get bigger? right now, jj’s contract will get in the way of making this a better team. i dont see any plausible way around it unless the basg is going to go into tax land. i got news for you if you didnt hear it, they wont until we get to the ecf, which we wont, because of jj’s contract. nice catch 22 there and allows the basg to serve up more spin crap like they ever intend to go into the tax or have a winner and not an entertainer.
if we can get something of value for jj, i say trade him. this isnt taking anything away from the thought i like his game. especially, when he is pouring it in, like he was in the first half against the celts. problem is, those moments seem to be able to be shut off like a faucet by opposing coaches. it is just like, anytime they want to shut down josh, all they have to do is let him shoot or throw him into a double team and slap the ball away.
again, it is to look to the big picture and the bigger albatross is going to be jj’s contract. frankly, i am also not sure about resigning josh as that often turns out bad for guys like him, getting the big money, as their bodies wear down and it will. an example is brand with the sixers; that is how josh could look in three years midway into a max contract.
doc
April 23rd, 2012
2:06 pm
northcyde 6-8 divided by 2 equals 3-4. that equals to a first round exit.
kwooden1
April 23rd, 2012
2:15 pm
Fun game to watch, but bad game for the HAWKS. I would like to win every game, but I’m more concerned with how we played. It’s really evident how poor a rebounding team we are without a real center. I thought Zaza’s impact on games was high, but we’re a completely different team without him. As I watched the game I could see how LD was just stuck and had no options when it came to personnel. At one point he tried Ivan on Amare and very quickly things went bad. I thought LD should have tried more double-teams and zone but all things considered he did a pretty good job. I saw Woody has grown as a coach and was making some adjustments in the 4th.
Right now I’m just waiting for Zaza and Horford to get back, because clearly we have no chance against Boston without at least one of those guys.
GO HAWKS!!
DawgNole
April 23rd, 2012
2:29 pm
kwooden1
April 23rd, 2012
2:15 pm
Fun game to watch, but bad game for the HAWKS. I would like to win every game, but I’m more concerned with how we played.
_____________________
Never fun to lose.
Rather play poorly and win than play well and lose.
Ws are ALWAYS better than Ls.
O'brien
April 23rd, 2012
2:41 pm
New Blog
bama52
April 23rd, 2012
9:07 pm
My opinion Joe don’t know when to shoot. Picks are set for Joe and he’s wide open for a jump shot or drive to the basket instead he dribble’s the ball until he’s double or triple teamed.He needs to learn how to get in a position to shot or drive the ball before he get’s it. Joe,Marvin and Josh must attack the basket more. J Teague is playing great,but no one is breaking open when he’s pushing the ball. Joe,Marvin and Josh are either jump shooting or isolating themselves to far from the basket. Josh still wants to play guard,his passing and ball handling leads to more turnovers than big plays. Get the ball to J Teague so he can run. We turn the ball over simply because we wait to late to pass. Josh and Joe your teammates can shoot.Josh and Joe can bring a championship to the ATL,but they must have confidence in their teammates. The bench is playing outstanding,this team can go deep into the playoff, could be a shocker because of their ability to play defense. DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. LETS GO HAWKS!!!!
Rusty
April 23rd, 2012
9:39 pm
Nortcyde haven’t you had enough time to see that iso Joe does not work. Joe is the last guy on the team whom I want to see with the ball in his hands because it all comes to a complete stoppage.
Geno
April 24th, 2012
12:24 am
Lol… When we start having a sellout arena full of hawks fans actually cheering for the hawks then we will make it to next level…