Horford ‘frustrated’ by progess following surgery

Vivlamore reporting from Hawks practice.

Al Horford said Thursday he is “frustrated” by his progress as he works to return from surgery to repair a torn left pectoral muscle.

The Hawks All-Star center went through a full-contract practice with the team.

“Today was the first chance I actually got to play 3-on-3 half-court with the guys and I’m not where I need to be,” Horford said following the workout. “I had a deadline in my mind that I wanted to be back by the last game of the regular season … but I’m not where I need to be. That is a little frustrating for me.

“I’m going to keep trying to work, but I’m not there yet.”

The Hawks have four games remaining in the regular season with the finale a week from today. Horford didn’t put a timetable on his return nor did he offer the chances he could return in time for the start of the playoffs. The postseason would begin for the Hawks either April 28 or 29. However, he made it clear he would continue to work in hopes of seeing  the necessary improvements.

“It’s awkward just because this is only the third time I’ve played with contact,” Horford said. “Once you get moving and doing different stuff that is when you start to realize [how far you have to go] and I feel limited. Any chance we get to practice, I want to get in there. It’s hard because I can’t expect guys to come out and practice just for me. They play every other day. If we get a full practice I’m going to try to get out there and keep progressing.”

Horford said that while he has been working on his game during the rehabilitation process, it’s the physical condition of his shoulder and the nature of the NBA that is the biggest concern.

“When you play in the post you have to have a level of physicality and you have to naturally be able to bang with another player and I’m not confident doing things like that yet,” Horford said. “The other thing is really keeping [my left] arm above [my shoulder] for a certain period of time, that is another weak point for me. Keeping my hands up defensively and if I can’t do that, I’m going to be in trouble. The last thing I want to do is hurt the team.

“It’s very frustrating because I was doing everything on schedule, my rehab was going well. … It’s just tough.”

Hawks coach Larry Drew said Horford will continue to work with the team and that the decision on when he will be able to return rests with the center.

“When he tell us,” Drew said of Horford’s availability.

204 comments Add your comment

Rod from College Park

April 19th, 2012
12:45 pm

Horford won’t be back. Let’s get over it.

glw

April 19th, 2012
12:49 pm

Horford is a warrior, he will be back. I do worry about him going against a physical team like the Celtics. If I had to guess, I figure he plays by Game 3 or 4 of the playoffs.

Priest Lauderdale

April 19th, 2012
12:51 pm

No Rod, let’s keep talking about it

jlewis

April 19th, 2012
12:54 pm

As long as ZaZa comes back, and get the other bodies, the Hawks will be fine. Myself and others said on this blog that losing Horford was not a death sentence for the team, although some thought we might miss the playoffs. Horford would get in Josh’s way, he is much better in the post than Al and is a better rebounder. Other than maybe a little depth, which Ivan provides, I dont see the big deal.

City Of Atlanta Still Recovering From William Tecumseh Sherman

April 19th, 2012
12:59 pm

Just sit out for the rest of the playoffs too dont want to risk more injuries

dirty south bird

April 19th, 2012
1:12 pm

he will be back for the 2nd round-game 3…i put money on it, cuz i know its true

glw

April 19th, 2012
1:12 pm

j lewis,

I think Horford could end up being a big deal assuming we play Celtics. The Celtics are going to send Bradley and Iso stopper Pietrus at Joe. I dont expect Joe will have a great series, they are going to make anyone other than Joe beat them. And if you remember in our last game against Boston…..Pargo, Green, and Marvin couldnt hit a shot to save their lives, so having a guy we can put into the game like Horford who can knock down a mid range jumper will be vital. That is the one trait that he can bring above all our other bigs.

Heisenberg

April 19th, 2012
1:13 pm

Even now he would probably be more useful than Collins and/or Dampier.

SteveW

April 19th, 2012
1:15 pm

Now I do agree if Josh plays in that “zone” where he gets in the post, attacks, and passes out on occasion, the Hawks look as good as any team on the planet.

He just doesn’t stay in that zone very often.

And I’ve always wanted us to try the Marvin-Theo Ratliff experiment. Ratliff was built like Marvin; thin, long arms, maybe an inch or two taller.

Stick Marvin in the low post, especially in the middle of a zone, and tell him to attack the ball and shooter when it comes in the lane. He’s quicker than most C’s would be in responding to a pass off the attack also.

I know he’s been a failure as a #2 pick, and a 40 mill. contract. But I’ve often wondered if Marvin could be Theo. Then at least your getting an athletic shot blocker in the middle. And if he added a little bulk, he wouldn’t get pushed around by the bigger guys that bad. The NBA is short on Centers right now, so there’s not that many bigger guys to push him around really.

I would try Marvin as backup C during training camp, just to see what he could do.

Najeh – I guess I’m not as sold as you are on having ZaZa on the floor at crunch time. Maybe the Denver loss lingers a little to close.

If Ivan was a little more mature and careful with the ball, I would say our closing team should be Teague, JJ, Josh, TMac and Ivan. A big C could possibly push Ivan around, but not to many of them could. But Ivan can get careless with the ball a little to much sometimes, and on occasion makes poor decisions again just a little to much for my taste.

I do think TMac, Ivan, and Josh could rebound just fine.

I hate to see Marvin closing out games. Too many clanked wide open jumpers at clutch time for me throughout his career. Sigh

Our biggest mismatch against Boston. Doc vs LD

I think that alone may cost us the series.

And if you gave Doc the Hawks, and LD the Celtics, I still think Doc’s team wins.

But here’s hoping…. 4 straight trips to the Semi’s would be nice in a win starved city.

Hawks postseason way better than the Falcons postseasons recently.

O'brien

April 19th, 2012
1:17 pm

“When you play in the post you have to have a level of physicality and you have to be able to bang with another player and I’m not confident doing things like that yet,” Horford said..

Even when he was healthy, I’m not sure how confident he was.

But I dont think anybody is expecting anything from Al this year. As a player, I’m sure he wants to come back and help his team, even if he is only at 75%. But long term, I think both Al and the team is better off just gettng ready for next season.

FTPB,

Najeh,

I think another reason Dumars gets to stay so long is because he also won championships as a Piston himself.

O'brien

April 19th, 2012
1:19 pm

Steve W,

Agreed. If Doc Rivers or Popovich was coaching this team, I would like our chances of getting to the ECF. As a matter of fact, I would have been okay with Thibs from Chicago too, because his players buy into his defensive system. And if you can defend, and rebound consistently I think you will always have a chance.

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
1:21 pm

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
1:11 pm

“I hate to see Marvin closing out games. Too many clanked wide open jumpers at clutch time for me throughout his career. Sigh”

Why are they shooting jump-shots in the first place? If Marvin doesn’t close out the game, Pierce will win it himself. I just don’t trust JJ’s defense compared to Marvin’s proven past. There is a simple solution to your dilemma. DONT PASS THE DANG BALL TO MARVIN ON THE PERIMETER!

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
1:15 pm

“Our biggest mismatch against Boston. Doc vs LD”

This is the thread winner. I want to see if LD can make adjustments this post season. Last one was his first, so I’ll give him a pass on being stubborn with CHI.

“Hawks postseason way better than the Falcons postseasons recently.”

That’s like saying one team doesn’t suck as much, but they both suck in the end. One just makes it one step further into mediocrity.

SteveW

April 19th, 2012
1:27 pm

Big Lou – You have to pass Marvin the ball on the perimeter if he’s open. That’s just smart basketball. If your doubled, somebody is open. And your taught since middle school to find the open man.

Then you trust your teammate to make the correct decision with the ball. You cannot play basketball having to “protect” a player from themselves.

That is what was destroying the Hawks last season in those horrible blowouts – they had 1 or 2 guys who needed “protecting” on D, and it burnt us badly.

If Marvin’s open, the only smart BB play is to swing it to him. Now he can be coached to cut to the basket, or position himself closer to the basket. Or to set screens.

But taking on a double team is courting basketball disaster.

But agreed – we probably do need Marvin on PP in crunch time. And that’s probably why we couldn’t score the last 5 minutes of our last game against them, and 2 pts. in OT, I don’t remember if Marvin was in the game or not.

Sigh.

Teach Marvin to attack the basket. But then he injures his back oftentimes, and no Marvin – so back to square 1.

Sigh.

Trying to Coach the Hawks those last 5 minutes of a game is a tall task. Just not built with a closer.

TMac – great, oft injured, not much on D maybe.

Marvin – better on D, usually brings you nothing else

Teague – Get’s passive, sometimes JJ and Josh commandeer the ball and make him passive.

JJ – Pound, pound, pound, pound…

Josh – Just not a go to scoring guy – but our O should run thru him the last 5 minutes of the game. Unless he’s jumper happy.

SteveW

April 19th, 2012
1:30 pm

Hinrich at crunch time? Not so much. Green? If he’s smokin’ hot, great. If not, big D liability. Pargo? Yes, but D liability, streaky, and makes you play small.

The Hawks are built for alot of things. Closing out BB games is not one of them.

TMac is our best option, unless Green, Pargo or somebody is smokin’ like they can.

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
1:31 pm

“But agreed – we probably do need Marvin on PP in crunch time. And that’s probably why we couldn’t score the last 5 minutes of our last game against them, and 2 pts. in OT, I don’t remember if Marvin was in the game or not.”

Yes, he was.

No. They couldn’t score because LD’s ‘game plan’ was to pass to Joe Johnson for ISO brick. For the life of me, I do not understand why they don’t feed Josh in the post or have Teague drive/kick. Or here’s even a better idea, set up a play for Joe, but have him coming off screens. LD’s predictability is what cost the Hawks the game.

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
1:32 pm

“Closing out BB games is not one of them.”

Again. You are wrong about this. They can close games if they run the right plays. The issue is that they just pass to Joe on the top of the key and expect him to dribble through a double team for the game winner.

BIG DOG

April 19th, 2012
1:35 pm

Horford take your time bro, us true Hawks fans support you and wish you the best, get better and take your time before coming back, 100percent is the Horford we need not 80percent.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
1:36 pm

How many times this year have the fans(us) give a collective grunt when LD calls a stupid play at the end of the game… or doesn’t take advantage of a match up… or try to foul out the other players?

The issue was never the talent.

BIG DOG

April 19th, 2012
1:36 pm

GET BETTER HORFORD.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

Heisenberg

April 19th, 2012
1:36 pm

What I find frustrating about Hawks in crunch time is the sloppy ball handling. I almost expect someone to dribble off their foot. Would rather see running some crisp plays with cutting and passing over dribble isolation.

I like Marvin coming off the bench. He seems more productive with second unit. But way to soft to play the 5.

BIG DOG

April 19th, 2012
1:43 pm

If im Horford i would wait until second round before coming back.

Hawks will destroy Celtics in 5 so Horford will not be needed in first round.

But second round if Horford is ready along with Zaza we will go 2 the NBA finals.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

BIG DOG

April 19th, 2012
1:47 pm

Teague, Joe, Josh, Horford, Zaza

vs

Rose, Hamilton, Deng, Boozer, Noah

Hawks dominate the paint and beat the Bulls in 6.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

Jesse

April 19th, 2012
2:00 pm

Smith is playing so much better without him, do we want him back? I know we do, but I want them to keep going to Josh in the post like they are doing.

BIG DOG

April 19th, 2012
2:12 pm

Jesse thats the key you move Josh SF he would destroy Deng in the post all day.

Josh might AVG 25points in the playoffs at SF specially in the post.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

doc

April 19th, 2012
2:13 pm

it would be super human for al to come back this early. not sure he shpuld until measured full range of motion and strength level to the other arm. like astor said some will take issue and call him soft if he doesnt make it.

interesting concerns about our attendance. tough year to be a fan, like baseball. string 5 straight home games in nine days precludes some one having a life. stern milked it out of us for an inferior product due to injuries and players havng to take games off t rest during yhe season. funniest was pops preparing a dnp on duncan as “dnp-old”.

pp gets into foul trouble against the hawks s i hope the trend contines friday.

f u guys for any disagreements old or new. thanks rev for the grace of it all.

similar probs elsewhere. read about it in pacer land:

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/14/pacers-thriving-on-court-not-at-gate/?ref=sports

BIG DOG

April 19th, 2012
2:13 pm

Big lineup would be to much for the Bulls in the playoffs.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

Hoops

April 19th, 2012
2:18 pm

With or wothout Horford the Hawks beat the Celtics in the first round. Then it’s on to Chicago!

Dawg

April 19th, 2012
2:23 pm

It is debatable if we would be better or not if he came back. If there is any question, let him sit and heal. Perhaps we can use him in tandem with Paculia and one other LEGIT center next year.

drmaryb.[*_*].

April 19th, 2012
2:28 pm

For the last time for the hard of hearing and resing comprehension: Horford sustained a 12 month (down time) injury. If you can not understand this simple fact, then ’sux being you’.

My newest concern is that Zaza will not be able to return this post season either, (see Marvin).

We are going to have to go to war with what we got and, just deal with the facts. I sure hope I’m wrong about Zaza but, from the org? Mums the word. I would like to see the org use an injury exception, waive Dampieer and sign a useful big man, who can defend the post and rebound on both ends, (at least 7 boards per). We need a Haslem on the end of that bench where Dampieer is “occupying Atlanta”.

We will not get past round two either way, but what’s new? That was never the plan from the start.

If you want to see a team here in Atlanta that is built to win a championship, I reccommend you check out The Atlanta Dream – WNBA. Women are fundamentally sound in every aspect of the game because, they play the right way, between the ears, have more heart, rely on fundamental skills and, below the rim.

Ya heard?

drmaryb.[*_*].

April 19th, 2012
2:29 pm

* and, LACK of READING comprehension …

jlewis

April 19th, 2012
2:44 pm

drmaryb:

I have to disagree on the point about girls being more fundamentally sound, thats the perception, but not necessarily the truth. I have followed circuit basketball the last couple of years, the highest level and many girls lack instinct because of their inability to play pick up basketball. The girls game in a lot of instances is the Detroit Pistons, throw it in the post and try to get a foul call. Many girls do not shoot it well, thats why the WNBA has floundered, its ugly, and many girls that play cant stand to watch it themselves.

BIG DOG

April 19th, 2012
2:45 pm

drmaryb – Miss Doctor Maryb who say so .

HA

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

PD

April 19th, 2012
2:46 pm

They should have kept Keith Benson instead of signing Dampier

Najeh Davenpoop

April 19th, 2012
2:47 pm

FTPB

Shot blocking is an instinct. A lot of athletic players were/are never great shot blockers because they didn’t have the instinct or timing — see Tyson Chandler and Blake Griffin. Marvin may have the body type of Theo Ratliff (I think this is debatable, but that’s beside the point) but he has never consistently shown the shot blocking instincts to where he could fill such a role.

PD

April 19th, 2012
2:48 pm

This is going to be a rough match-up for the Hawks. Celtics are old but they are very crafty and efficient.

Najeh Davenpoop

April 19th, 2012
2:50 pm

Nice link about the Pacers’ attendance, doc. The story is the same everywhere. Get superstars and the attendance goes up. Even in podunk Indiana.

jlewis

April 19th, 2012
2:51 pm

Indiana has superstars? lol

Chris Vivlamore

April 19th, 2012
2:57 pm

Went back and cleaned up the Horford quotes after rush to get the story posted. Not much different.

drmaryb.[*_*].

April 19th, 2012
2:58 pm

IMHO, if Al Horford was not a world class athlete, then sure he might be able to return to work on some other type job in 4 or 5 months. But, like Joe Johnson said last year, “This is the NBA man.”

From Al’s comments on here, he seems to be tentative between the ears as well. To get that confidence level back up, I reccommend he work with a sports psychologist before he returns next year. I suggested this when I first heard about the severity of his injury. If I were him, I sure know I would need that because, wellness encompasses the:

Mind
Body
Spirit

In that order. The human brain, (the greatest gift God gave man) controls every nerve, cell and tissue in the human body. You have to address all three, but it all begins with getting the mind right. Phil Jackson unsterstood this and, always assigned his players to read selected books on the plane rides in lieu of playing “Tunk”, video games and other mindless activities.

That’s the difference between champions and the extras. I’m just saying, the human being is more than the physcial, the human being is dynamic.
_______

Get Well Soon Al and, take your time bruh. Basketball is just not that important in the grand scheme of life. Forget about these rabid, irrational owners and fans – they don’t care about you.

Chris Vivlamore

April 19th, 2012
3:00 pm

As an update, Drew still calling Pachulia and Dampier “day-to-day.” Pachulia did not practice Thursday but worked with trainers on the side.

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
3:03 pm

drmaryb on fire!

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
3:05 pm

Prediction, Paul will get the contact calls and Marvin will be in foul trouble in no time during these playoff match ups… Regular season and playoffs are two different animals got it? Got it….

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
3:09 pm

Sund’s lack of quality bigs acquisitions are about to come back and bit him in the butt?

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
3:10 pm

doc

April 19th, 2012
3:11 pm

yeah najeh, sometimes we get so self absorbed in our own teams we dont see what happens elsewhere. it is why i tend to look around to see what is happening and how it reflects on us one way or the other.

if that is the only formula having a superstar that gets fans out; one, it doesnt say much for the fans and second, there arent enough superstars around. especially, when they get shunted to big markets or group together because they are afraid to compete on their own. that is why i admire the duncans, dallas’ and durants in this league and not the queens, celts and heat for big spenders. fortunately there are the nets and knicks to balance out the folly of just spending or wanting to. i especially admire the experiment of george karl wanting and professing the desire to show it can be done with 10 good players, whether he makes it or not.

SteveW

April 19th, 2012
3:14 pm

Big Lou – I agree with you kinda – We don’t have folks with closer mentality on this team. Iso is all, and only against bad teams.

But could we if we ran the correct plays? Yes, of course. But this is the NBA, and plays are only run on an after TO basis – 1 play, that’s it.

The rest is just letting the players play. So in theory you are correct. If this was college, you would be correct. And for 1 play after a TO you are correct.

But in the NBA, for the last 5-6 minutes of the game, you are not correct.

Najeh – I guess I’m thinking about that highlight block Marvin had against Rose last season, and actually a couple of more times the last two seasons, where Marvin has absolutely had impeccable timing and athleticism to make crazy blocks. I think he had one on LeBron either earlier this season, or last season.

I used to be a shotblocker, and he can do it if he wants to.

But he’s not much on the mid-air blocks – grant you that. Maybe he is missing that.

But if he’d broaden his shoulders a little bit, he’d be nearly Theo – except for a couple of inches in height. He’s got plenty of length.

Heisenberg

April 19th, 2012
3:14 pm

Danny Granger is a stud. Mayne a notch below superstar, but a stud. Indiana attandance is driven by the fact basketball there is religion – not sport.

Heisenberg

April 19th, 2012
3:16 pm

Even if Marvin got bigger shoulders, he does not have the interior tough guy style that role requires.

SteveW

April 19th, 2012
3:17 pm

Doc – You said – “i especially admire the experiment of george karl wanting and professing the desire to show it can be done with 10 good players, whether he makes it or not.”

This is officially the Detroit, Sund, and ASG model. Glad you like it.

SteveW

April 19th, 2012
3:20 pm

Theo is 6.875 w/o shoes, and played his career between 215 (early) and 235 (later).

I’m not sure how he and Marvin are not similar physically.

Admiral Snackbar

April 19th, 2012
3:26 pm

don’t come back no matter what. Horfy is too valuable to risk his long term health for anything! imagine re injuring that arm and having to drag that noodle around the rest of your life! not fun! be smart and listen to the docs.

AtlSouthside

April 19th, 2012
3:27 pm

I like Ivan more than Horford honestly.. Ivan is at least 2-3 inches smaller but twice as physcial, and his offensive game is what we need in our PF or C. Horford relies on the jumper too much. We’ll be OK in first vs Boston. We will need him in 2nd round for sure tho.

Astro Joe

April 19th, 2012
3:28 pm

Steve, but there are a TON of players that size who are clearly not elite shot-blockers (Theo, IMO, was an elite shot-blocker in his prime).

The Truth

April 19th, 2012
3:29 pm

“When you play in the post you have to have a level of physicality and you have to naturally be able to bang with another player and I’m not confident doing things like that yet,” – Horford

This comment by Al is interesting if we reflect back when Al suggested numerous times that PF was his natural position and not center. I’m sure Al after his injury and now watching Ivan (who also is a natural PF) has had an influence on his prospective about a PF switching to the center position. Ivan has embraced the role of playing center and has taken his game to another level as a center.

Once Al return (whether this postseason or next BB season), he will likely back-off his claims of playing PF because it’s his natural position.

That message out of his mouth was probably his dad influence anyway.

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
3:31 pm

“Get Well Soon Al and, take your time bruh. Basketball is just not that important in the grand scheme of life. Forget about these rabid, irrational owners and fans – they don’t care about you.” drmaryb

We are all going to die some day. Might as well be banged up in the process.

But in the NBA, for the last 5-6 minutes of the game, you are not correct.” SteveW

Do you remember how many games the Hawks lost this year that came from that last shot? At least six games. That is with a time out and everything. The Hawks lose because they can’t close the last possession. They are usually in the game until the last play. Use the last two games against the Celtics for example, and the Miami game(Pargo missed three). The Hawks have not been closed out in the fourth quarter in the last 5-6 minutes often. Either it’s a huge lead by the other team, or they lose by the last shot attempt.

That’s all on the coaching staff. Period.

It’s not that difficult to double team ISO Joe.

Astro Joe

April 19th, 2012
3:36 pm

Can you chnage your working personality? If you are naturally in quisitive, can you turn that off and stop asking questions? If you are a natural leader, can you stop that?

Ivan is naturally aggressive. Big Ben was a natural-born “warrior”. So was Alnozo Mourning. You can’t simply take players of similar size or stature and decide that they should be Zo or Big Ben or anyone else. It doesn’t work that way in real life and my guess is that you can’t turn a choir boy into a stone-cold Konbe0like killer.

I like the Pierce and Joe comparisons from a skill (and close enough) size perspective. But Pierce has that Kobe/MJ thing and Joe does not. That won’t change. Josh won’t play within his sstrengths, Al won’t forget his shooting skills and settle for an Ivan type role, and it is unlikely that Teague becomes a true floor general. Ain’t happenin’.

Heisenberg

April 19th, 2012
3:37 pm

Theo could jump out of the building and had a mean streak,

Admiral Snackbar

April 19th, 2012
3:46 pm

“Boston is going to be a division champion. A non-division championship team with a record better than a division champion (or champions, plural) can be seeded higher — but just the single winningest non-division champion can do that under NBA rules. The Hawks are three games behind the No. 3 Pacers (40-22), who have won six straight but cannot catch their division-leading Bulls.”

does that mean we can’t get the home court?

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
3:50 pm

“does that mean we can’t get the home court?”

If the Hawks have a better record, they will get home court over the Celtics.

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 19th, 2012
3:53 pm

Girls Gone Wild!

Ok ok … Jlewis and BIG DOG. Why yalw wanna give the girls a hard time. I admitt, you are right tho, but hey I gotta’ root for the home team! LOL

Girls don’t have the physical ability to play above the rim, so they have to play on a string, together and below the rim.

prison mike

April 19th, 2012
3:54 pm

Just going to put this out there, Josh would have returned a month ago with the same injury…

prison mike

April 19th, 2012
3:55 pm

Throw a gotdam shoulder wrap on that thing and let’s go!

High-sider

April 19th, 2012
3:59 pm

Maybe Al [Horford] can pull a “Willis Reed” in the playoffs. Oh, wait a minute; Willis Reed made that emotional appearance in Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals. I don’t think the Hawks are going quite that far [in the playoffs] this postseason.

http://www.nba.com/history/reedwins_moments.html

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 19th, 2012
4:01 pm

D12 is for Quitters!

FTPB: STRETCH

Thanks for that Howard update. Yeah man, I posted last week that I don’t believe Dwight has a herniated disc, more like a herniated brain.

He is like school on Sunday – no class. What gave me the conspiracy theory was that he supposedly flew to LA to see a specialist and reported he had a herniated disc.

However, he tweeted something about hosting a party with Josh in Orlando the very next day for a friend’s BDay party.
So, basically all we have is Howard’s word that his disc is herniated. I posted that I think he would never play another game for SVG. Personalities aren’t compatible at all. Sometimes, that just happens and isn’t anyone fault – it’s just a lot of bad chemistry between those two.

They are both very emotional at work and don’t trust each other. It’s time for SVG to move on and the TRAGIC just need a new voice. Nothing personal, their window just closed there.

Oh well, too bad for them, but we got problems of our own!

jlewis

April 19th, 2012
4:03 pm

Drmaryb, it was said with love. Danny Granger a notch below superstar? He is JJ lite, without the handles and the defense. The thing that gets me, is the praise of teams that are below or not better than the Hawks. The Hawks had a lot of players go down this year, I have league pass like i’m sure a lot of other bloggers. The teams and players people fall in love with are not better than the Hawks.

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
4:13 pm

15-5 last 20(.750 clip) and their defense sux? Now that’s blowing it out of your azz. Pot calling the frying pan…LMAO!

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
4:17 pm

Shut it down Robotus!

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
4:19 pm

Friday night is probably the biggest game of the season for the Hawks.It’s a statement game, a must win on National TV too boot? Uh Oh!

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 19th, 2012
4:21 pm

I wonder if Horford is losing some confidence too because, he sees how easily he was replaced by Zaza and Ivan combo. Also, what does he think of Ivan’s contribution to the team in his absence?

I wish the beat writers would ask some introspective questions to Al for a change aside form his obvious injury
status. Most of us don’t expect him to return any time soon and don’t need a daily update on that per se.

I wanna’ hear some Larry King type questions to get underneath the outer layers. We want some dirt man!

I hope we play Boston with home court advantage, we owe them a beat down from 4 years ago. We already paid Orlando back, been there done that. Now it’s the old men of Boston’s turn for a 4-3 beat down. Hopefully, we can do it in six!

O'brien

April 19th, 2012
4:24 pm

I think Marvin on Pierce is the way to go. The only problem is, Marvin on offense late in the game becomes a liability. As disciplined defensively as the Celtics are, they will not let JJ or Josh have any easy shots, so we will need guys to step up.

I think they will double JJ, let Josh take the tough jumper, or pass the ball to an open Marvin. Which normally does not end well for the Hawks in crunch time.

High-sider

April 19th, 2012
4:27 pm

Slimjr,

Add Ving Rhames to “the list” for his role in the movie, “Holiday Heart.” Also, don’t forget about Terry Crews when played “Damon [Pearly]” in [the movie,] “Friday after Next.” Remember the “bathroom scene” with him [T. Crews] and “Money Mike” as played by Katt Williams.

O'brien

April 19th, 2012
4:27 pm

Like Woody before him, LD likes iso-JJ too much, because it hardly ever works against good teams anymore. But to be fair to LD, there are games in which he actually calls a certain play for the final shot, and the players don’t execute.

For example, against Detroit when the play was called for JJ to back his man down in the post (if they switched). Well, needless to say, the Pistons did switch, JJ had a shorter Stuckey on him, and still decided to take a fade-away jumper.

There is also the botched layup by Zaza at the end of the Nuggets game.

Sometimes, players need to execute.

briggy

April 19th, 2012
4:34 pm

hawks bench are better than celtics if hawks have homecourt i could see hawks winning the series. if not celtics probably win in 7. u could see this series in different ways. if hawks get embarasses against celtics like woody did against orlando and cleveland is drew back?

i read the celtic blogs on realgm.com and they dont care if they dont get hca. also celtics do not have a lot of depth

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
4:38 pm

High-sider, red alert, shields up Scottie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This rabbit hole gets deeper the more you dig Sir!

Hollyweird is one sick group of Mf’ers……

briggy

April 19th, 2012
4:39 pm

hawks r at stage they need to break through like years ago pistons get by celtics, bulls get by pistons. they are famliar with the celts and bulls in playofs. knock them off make some noise.

also i stated before would love fo hawks to get donnie walsh for gm or even larry bird.

doc

April 19th, 2012
4:39 pm

stevew, i never heard karl say it was for “entertainment”. he wants to win it all.

briggy

April 19th, 2012
4:40 pm

Enter your comments here

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
4:45 pm

“15-5 last 20(.750 clip) and their defense sux? Now that’s blowing it out of your azz. Pot calling the frying pan…LMAO!”

I was talking about the game versus the Celtics, where they allowed those old guys to put up 110 points. Don’t try to twist my words you simple minded wind bag. And no, their defense is not as good as the Hawks. They are 10th in points allowed, the Hawks are 4th. I hope the Hawks beat the Knicks again so I don’t have to see you for the night like last time, where you magically disappeared for couple days. Why don’t you hang around the Knicks board and stop polluting this blog with your nonsense.

We might have realists like Grandmaster JeJe and Dawgnole, but at least they don’t cheer for the other teams. They legitimately want the Hawks to be better. Why are you even on here? You seem like one of those girly flip floppers who can’t decide which team to root for.

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
4:52 pm

“There is also the botched layup by Zaza at the end of the Nuggets game.” O’brien

That’s one example on how the players didn’t execute, yet this is Zaza we are talking about. Do you think the Lakers count on the final shot to be made by Barnes? Why draw up a play for captain McFumbles?

The whole point is to utilize the true closers(Josh and JJ), but write up plays that better utilize their strengths–the Detroit game earlier this season, for example. In that game they set up a screen for JJ on the top of the key, where he caught it, was wide open and shot it for the game tie.

Or, do what most teams with an actual coach do, force a switch from a pick and roll(like Pierce did against the Magic last night for the game clinching shot.

Why have a play where everyone sits on the perimeter, one guy drives to the basket, and he kicks out to… Josh for the three? Come on man. LD needs to make plays where Josh is in the paint. Remember the game winning dunk against the Magic last year?

I’m not saying the Hawks have a Kobe or Lebron, but they make it harder on themselves by the plays LD is calling at the end of games.

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
4:55 pm

Lol

They made a Jeff Teague poster on the espn conversation board for the Celtics/Hawks game. I’ve seen an Ivan Johnson one, but this one is much more hilarious.

doc

April 19th, 2012
5:02 pm

on the other hand here is a snippet on a team i had a lot of love for about four years ago and sadly how far south it has gotten. funny how owners of teams in smaller markets can become a bit snarky to journalists:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/blazers-owner-paul-allen-posts-strange-octopus-themed-143804744.htm

big lou i dont think of them as realists but more cynics. realists are that, they size it up, set the appropriate expectation and if exceeded suggest that or if it falls below it your put the hammer down. in no way could one be called a realist or prophet for suggesting this team would not win the nba championship at the top of the season. look the basg isnt interested in more. however, these guys have played some ball this year with a main cog out, so give it up for them.

some things are out of the players control, but winning games and playing hard is and they have delivered fairly well this season except some games we all know about. karl expects those types of games every year, it is the others you have to control or getting more than expected like we saw last year or in second rounds with woody.

cynics are like that and the atlanta scene keeps them very happy. only so many trophies to go around and they usually go to bigger markets. maybe if they arent happy and arent really cynics and want to shift they should either move or become a fan of the yankees or lakers as the braves and hawks arent going to get it for them. remember, it was funny when the braves started slowly how they were quick with the editorial derision. now they are hitting the ball and winning, nary a peep.

drmaryb.[*_*].

April 19th, 2012
5:03 pm

Biggie Lou!

I’ve been thinking about this for a while and I’m gonna start calling you -
Biggie Love. LOL Anybody talk as much ish as you, need a catchy handle.

I just pray and hope you can live up to that name – If, you don’t like that, then imma call you “A WALKER!”

what … What?

Astro Joe

April 19th, 2012
5:22 pm

Mary, Al likely would be excited to play with Ivan. They are very different players. Not to mention that Al is younger. I know it has been a while, but Al is far superior to Zaza and Ivan. They may do some things better or as well but they don’t have the A-Z skills like Al. I hope that we get to see Josh,Al, Zaza and Ivan next season. 4 complementary and productive bugs on the Hawks would be a rare treat.

The Truth

April 19th, 2012
5:22 pm

“Al won’t forget his shooting skills and settle for an Ivan type role” – AJ

“Remember the way we were” – Barbra Streisand (75’)

Al 1st year as a Hawk transcended to the center position after a Zaza injury and never gave it back. Woody realized that Al was more athletic, more effective on the boards and finished better than Zaza. The perception then was that Al was an upgrade over Zaza as the main reason Zaza never got his starting job back. That was validated after Al 1st All-star appearance.

I and others have praised Al back in those days as being the “Yeoman in the middle”; the lunch pail guy who was the steady-hand of the core with his consistency. That role mimicked him during his college days as a gator. A double-double guy you can depend on, no matter the competition.

However, something happen along the way; Al developed an effective mid-range jump shot. So the offense shifted to featuring AL in a pick-and-pop role that he embraced. From that point, Al interest and attitude seemingly changed from being the “Yeoman in the middle” guy to fantasizing about being this exotic PF more interested in picking-and-popping while his once “yeoman defense” became secondary. With his dad in his ear promoting him as a PF out of concern for his longevity, perhaps also was a factor.

So Al has it in him to being again that “Yeoman in the middle” guy. He’s been there and done that. I’m sure he’s struggling with that “man in the mirror”, especially in light of his recent injury. Hopefully watching Ivan will help inspire him to become the man he once was.

vava74

April 19th, 2012
5:31 pm

The Truth
April 19th, 2012
5:22 pm

Fantastic post! Not sure if I fully agree, but well written.

Astro Joe

April 19th, 2012
5:39 pm

The Truth, that assumes that Al wants to be that type of player. Maybe he feels like being Reggie Evans or Michael Cage is a waste of his overall talents and skill set. He likely doesn’t want to simply be a smaller version of his college teammate (Noah). Personally, I don’t think he needs to apologize for being a 14/10 kind of player who also provides very good post defense.

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 19th, 2012
5:42 pm

Looking Forward!

AJ, you’re so right. I can’t wait to see Al, Zaza and Ivan patrol and control the paint next year. Coach Drew will be licking his chops to play around with the big line ups.

Each player brings something different and necessary to the table. Drew has a team option next season, so they will definitely bring him back at that price.

Zaza has elevated his game nicely, he has just been so under-utilized in the past. We now know, what Zaza knew – he plays better with consistent and heavy minutes. It improves his timing greatly, when he rotates in and out like clock work.

Al Horford is Al Horford, you know what you’re gonna’ get on the nightly.

We can finally rid ourselves of the Twin Project and maybe go get Kaman in here too, we would be set for years. If not Kaman, I wouldn’t mind developing Fab Melo if, he is around in round 2, which I seriously doubt.

MVT is set at the PG. Josh is at PF/SF. Marvin is … IDK what Marvin is at that price? A sixth man with an unreliable jumper who defends and rebounds well?
____________

AJ man, who do we take in the draft, round 1?

SF – Terrence Jones (UK)
C – Project
SG – Project

What do you think we need next season from the draft?

Astro Joe

April 19th, 2012
5:45 pm

And I’d suggest you look at draft forecasts for Al. He always projected to be more than a lunch pale player. That one dimensional kind of projection was placed on Noah and not Al.

Big Lou

April 19th, 2012
5:47 pm

drmaryb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3×7UaAMn9Qw

The haters can sing this anthem all they want, but I’m not going nowhere. I don’t back down from anything, especially some internet troll.

Biggie Love, huh? The ladies who know me personally already know I live up to that just fine.

You can call me walker if you want, just make sure to end my misery with a bullet to my head.

vava74

April 19th, 2012
5:50 pm

Astro Joe

April 19th, 2012
5:52 pm

Mary, Zaza is a free agent in about 15 months.So I would with draft a project center or an athletic wing defender (like Pietrus). I just hope they draft someone whose pilot light stays lit.

The Truth

April 19th, 2012
5:53 pm

Thanks Vava

“The Truth, that assumes that Al wants to be that type of player.” – AJ

That’s likely and is part of his “man in the mirror” dilemma

Junebug

April 19th, 2012
5:55 pm

The Hawks training staff sucks ..Al should be doing Yoga and Qi Gong to build mental and physical strength…In fact if Josh,Joe, Jeff,Marvin etc,etc all did Yoga and Qi Gong they would win the title.The Hawks are clearly the most talented team in the NBA .They just don’t have the mental toughness to win .

doc

April 19th, 2012
6:00 pm

astro dont know if you missed it but i compare ivan to the brandon bass type we have been missing for a long while. hope we can keep him.

doc

April 19th, 2012
6:01 pm

wow, someone has mentioned qi gong on the hawks blog. way out dude.

The Truth

April 19th, 2012
6:03 pm

“And I’d suggest you look at draft forecasts for Al. He always projected to be more than a lunch pale player” – AJ

Perhaps that was his projection but that’s what he was his early years as a Hawks. Besides, the “lunch pail guy” label means different things to different people. If you call Ivan a “lunch pail guy” he will no doubt take it as a compliment. He loves Nique description of him as 9-to-5 which is similar to being a “lunch pail guy” IMO.

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
6:33 pm

Hey pal kick rocks..Dude I’m not going anywhere…Use the scroll key when I come around..

scroll buster———->

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

April 19th, 2012
6:37 pm

Does anyone at AJC care enough to PUT THE MOST RECENT BLOG on the TOP OF THE AJC HAWKS PAGE? There are like 4 different blogs to choose from. WTF is the Ivan back to ‘full status’ blog still at the top?

SMH

SMH @ Smoove throwing full court passes and then acting like it’s the teammate’s fault they were thrown away

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
6:43 pm

“We might have realists like Grandmaster JeJe and Dawgnole, but at least they don’t cheer for the other teams. They legitimately want the Hawks to be better. Why are you even on here”

Why is this dude asking such a dumb azz question….Hit the scroll troll…There, I’ll use the Troll word out of context just like you use it….

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
6:47 pm

SteveW
April 19th, 2012
1:15 pm

But here’s hoping…. 4 straight trips to the Semi’s would be nice in a win starved city.
__________________________

I’d much prefer one straight trip to the Finals.

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
6:54 pm

Big Lou
April 19th, 2012
1:21 pm

“Hawks postseason way better than the Falcons postseasons recently.”

That’s like saying one team doesn’t suck as much, but they both suck in the end. One just makes it one step further into mediocrity.
_________________________

Excellent assessment.

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
6:57 pm

drmaryb.[*_*].
April 19th, 2012
2:28 pm

We will not get past round two either way, but what’s new? That was never the plan from the start.
____________________

Yup. And that’s a big part of the problem–it’s never been the plan from the start.

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
6:59 pm

I’d like to see Joe attack the interior of the Celts defense very early in the game and set the tone..Don’t worry about getting your shot blocked. Get into the teeth of the defense and draw some fouls..Generate some free throws..Your 6′8′ 240..Absorb the contact and go to the line..Dictate early and take it to them…

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
7:01 pm

BIG DOG
April 19th, 2012
1:43 pm

Hawks will destroy Celtics in 5 so Horford will not be needed in first round.

Hoops
April 19th, 2012
2:18 pm

With or wothout Horford the Hawks beat the Celtics in the first round.
________________________

Arrogance? Ignorance? Confidence?

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
7:10 pm

Slimjr
April 19th, 2012
4:19 pm

Friday night is probably the biggest game of the season for the Hawks.It’s a statement game, a must win on National TV too boot? Uh Oh!
_________________________

Kind of mirrors my earlier post:

DawgNole
April 19th, 2012
9:20 am

HUGE credibility game Friday night–and on national TV (espn).

Yeah, we go to the playoffs win or lose, but need to start RIGHT NOW shaking that rep of not being able to take The Big One.

EARN that playoff berth, Hawks. Earn it by showing up tomorrow night!

City Of Atlanta Still Recovering From William Tecumseh Sherman

April 19th, 2012
7:19 pm

josh bout to be live on nbatv

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
7:33 pm

“haters and trolls”, parrots his cousin “reach around”

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
7:37 pm

Those rocks he’s wearing on his ears are freakin blinding! lol!

City Of Atlanta Still Recovering From William Tecumseh Sherman

April 19th, 2012
7:39 pm

lol josh called joe out for being too quiet on the court

tls

April 19th, 2012
7:44 pm

LD needs to turn in the coaching job of his life. This game WILL decide home court for round 1. With the celtics being without 3 key players, this should give Hawks an advantage, but they tend to come out flat when oppoenent isn’t full strength. Hopefully Hawks will come up big and secure home court. Sure wish it looked better on horford, he would be huge plus esp against Celts in round 1. GO HAWKS!!!!

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

April 19th, 2012
7:46 pm

If T-Mac and Teague show up on Playoffs and play hard for however long they’re in, we have a chance.

Teaugue still shiEs away from going up to the basket.

And has Marvin EVER made a layup while drawing contact?

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

April 19th, 2012
7:47 pm

Homecourt isn’t as important as people think. We aren’t that good at home anymore. Boston will easily steal a game here in a 7 game series…probably game 1

High-sider

April 19th, 2012
7:58 pm

@vava74

I hope your “Let Josh [Smith] be Chief Cog” theory doesn’t blowup in the playoffs. I have a feeling Josh Smith in the playoffs will transform/change from “J-Smoove” to “In-COG-nito” or, shall I say, “In-COG-negro.”

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
8:06 pm

Big Lou
April 19th, 2012
4:45 pm

We might have realists like Grandmaster JeJe and Dawgnole, but at least they don’t cheer for the other teams. They legitimately want the Hawks to be better.

doc
April 19th, 2012
5:02 pm

big lou i dont think of them as realists but more cynics . . .

cynics are like that and the atlanta scene keeps them very happy . . . remember, it was funny when the braves started slowly how they were quick with the editorial derision. now they are hitting the ball and winning, nary a peep.
_________________________

You’re hurting me, doc. You didn’t think those thinly veiled barbs would slip by me, did you, you sly ol’ dawg you. Well they almost did. Almost.

I’ve butted heads with Big Lou before, but I believe he’s accurate in his assessment. I AM a realist, and while I don’t profess to speak for JeJe, I see him in the same light.

One of your mistakes is in your contention that a realist and a cynic must be different. While I’m a realist, I’m also very much a cynic. That tends to happen when you’ve pulled hard (for nearly half a century) for teams that have rewarded your loyalty with ONE championship in 154 seasons.

And if you think I’m in any way “very happy” with “the atlanta scene,” you’re not nearly as bright (beneath those grammatical/spelling/typing flaws we can always count on) as I thought you were. This assumes, of course, that the atlanta scene to which you refer is the ATL pro sports scene.

Hey, I made plenty of peeps when the Braves turned it around–was one of the few on this blog who pointed out that they’d won their 5th straight (while the Hawks were bending over for the Raptors). So don’t label me with that “nary a peep” crapola.

I’m as big a fan of ATL pro sports teams as anyone on here–and have pulled for them longer than most. I’m just way beyond weary of the BS excuses. The city’s teams should be well past that stage, and the Hawks, especially, need finally to show some real progress–i.e., make it to Round 3–if not win a title outright. Enough of the BS excuses.

SteveW

April 19th, 2012
8:14 pm

Doc – I’m not sure what you meant about George Karl and entertainment. Maybe 1 of us misread a quote?

Big Lou – Baskets count as much at the 4:56 mark as at the .02 mark in a game. Just because we’ve lost 6 games on the last possession doesn’t mean we couldn’t have won those games be playing better in the 5 minutes before the last possession.

If you think we’re built for closing, fine. But on a consistent basis we’re not. In College, they say you need 3 scorers on the floor to be successful at crunch time. That is almost always true.

In the Pros its a little different, but the context is the same. Gotta have some guys who thrive on taking and making the big shot – and who play just a little harder, and smarter that last 5 minutes.

Kinda like in baseball – Runners in Scoring Position stat.

Trust me, I’ve coached and seen it a bunch.

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
8:15 pm

DawgNole, a couple of bloggers are just very frustrated homers..So they are going to vent on those who see beyond the veil..

They’ll continue to swallow and excrete the bs excuses while attacking others personally…It is what it is….

..

SteveW

April 19th, 2012
8:24 pm

Green, Pargo, and JJ have all been really good closers at times this season. Josh, TMac, and Teague have also at times as well – but many variables – too many to explain on all those guys.

But we don’t have Kobe, Pierce, Durant/Westbrook, DWade/LeBron (hah), Carmelo or Amare, or even Monta Ellis for that matter. That’s what I’m talking about.

We may just have to agree to disagree on this one.

We don’t even have John Drew.

SteveW

April 19th, 2012
8:29 pm

Oh well, about done talkin’ – I’m ready to see some throw down, playoff basketball tomorrow nite. A brutal bloodbath of humanity – I’m just joking on that one.

I just hope we can gut one out and have some psychological advantage over the Celtics in the playoffs. If they beat us, mentally it will not be good in the playoffs.

SteveW

April 19th, 2012
8:30 pm

A 20 pt win would really help the Hawks heading into the playoffs.

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

April 19th, 2012
8:38 pm

I am as big a realist as they come. Don’t worry about that, DawgNole.

Thanks for the kind words, doc

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

April 19th, 2012
8:42 pm

“cynics are like that and the atlanta scene keeps them very happy . . . remember, it was funny when the braves started slowly how they were quick with the editorial derision. now they are hitting the ball and winning, nary a peep.”

Don’t think I’ve ever made one post about the Brave on this blog.

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
8:42 pm

Marvin’s minutes should be reduced significantly, but that will probably happen naturally as Paul attacks and draws fouls on him…

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
8:47 pm

2001 dot dot dot dot dot

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
8:50 pm

Knicks clinch tonight if the Bucks lose.. They are losing…

Astro Joe

April 19th, 2012
8:51 pm

The Truth, Paul Millsap was a pure blue collar guy when he entered the league. But he “evolved” or some might say that he actually improved his game. I understand what Al was when he first came into the league. I also understand that he was the 5th or 6th option behind guys like Bibby and Flip when he entered the league. The blog world often complained about shot-happy guards who didn’t get the ball to the big men. Over time, the shot distribution changed (for the better) as Josh and Al refined their offensive skills.

That was then and this is now. I don’t see anyone asking Josh to be the same player he was in his first 2-3 years in the league. Do we really want Teague to be the same in 3 years as he is now? I don’t think it is a man in the mirror thing, I think it is a guy who has busted his butt to develop his skills so he can do more than what a 27 YO undrafted FA does.

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
8:52 pm

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 19th, 2012
8:38 pm

I am as big a realist as they come. Don’t worry about that, DawgNole.
_____________________

Figured you were. Are you a cynic as well (like I am)?

Astro Joe

April 19th, 2012
8:55 pm

doc, yes, a little Brandon Bass and a whole lot of Jason Maxiell. And probably a healthy dose or Danny Fortson, too. I recall my post when I went to the free scrimmage several months ago. I said something like “that #44 won’t make the team but he sure could bring something to this team that they have been lacking”. It was “man crush” at first sight. My tweener has finally arrived. :lol:

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
8:57 pm

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 19th, 2012
8:42 pm

“cynics are like that and the atlanta scene keeps them very happy . . . remember, it was funny when the braves started slowly how they were quick with the editorial derision. now they are hitting the ball and winning, nary a peep.”

Don’t think I’ve ever made one post about the Brave on this blog.
________________________

Just to clarify, I was simply responding to doc’s accusation that some of those he views as cynics didn’t praise the Braves during their recent revival–after criticizing them during their 0-4 start. I was speaking for myself on that one to refute his contention that “nary a peep” was made by the cynics as the Braves were righting their ship.

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
9:02 pm

SteveW
April 19th, 2012
8:30 pm

A 20 pt win would really help the Hawks heading into the playoffs.
___________________

Now don’t go gettin’ greedy on us, SteveW. As for me, I’d be more than satisfied with a one-pt win, which also “would really help the Hawks heading into the playoffs.”

Luke Cage

April 19th, 2012
9:23 pm

Heard the WOODY may start BIBBY from here on out.

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
9:32 pm

Watch out Luke Cage, you keep this up for a couple of days, and “Haters & Trolls who parrots his cousin Reach Around” will be riding your jock! lol!

doc

April 19th, 2012
9:33 pm

yeah aj i kinda fell for the guy when he took on bosh in the first miami game then played big afains the twolves wojdering what was taking ld so long to get the guy mnutes. lve his quick hands and feet.

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
9:39 pm

Knicks are in Luke! Bucks just lost to Indiana..

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
9:43 pm

drmaryb.(*_*).
April 19th, 2012
4:01 pm

D12 is for Quitters!

FTPB: STRETCH

Thanks for that Howard update. Yeah man, I posted last week that I don’t believe Dwight has a herniated disc, more like a herniated brain.
_____________________

Espn is reporting tonight that he has a herniated disc and is done for the season. Back surgery scheduled for a few days hence.

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 19th, 2012
9:44 pm

Biggie Love

“The haters can sing this anthem all they want, but I’m not going nowhere. I don’t back down from anything, especially some internet troll.”
_________

Hugh? Your new love handle is all about your passion for Hawks BBall, at least for me anyways. I used the term “ish” positively – to describe your points of view basketball wise. That’s it.

LOL! A little touchy there?
___________

Meanwhile, I like what Shaq just said on TNT @ The Bulls team discipline. Shaq said, in the first half, this team hasn’t taken ONE BAD SHOT … and, that’s why they are leading the east and up by two.

Barkley said, the Heat will never win a championship with their bench, Haslem starting and, only Battier coming off that bench. Barkley said the Heat need a rebounder like a Varejao.
_________

Interesting there because I thought the Hawks matches up better with the Heat than the Bulls. I’d rather see Drew vs Spolestra than Thibbs from a coaching perspective.
____________

Dwight is having minor surgery to clean up that herniated disc. I fully endorse that for him and surmised that as well a couple weeks ago. I was telling Briggs, who asked me the
differences between: Byron, Amare (disc buldges) and Dwight with a herniated disc. Of those three I thought Dwight should opt for th surgery, like Marvin did.

I also mentioned that the “dunking” from Dwight will have to decrease, my rationale is because of the axial load put on the spine from jumping straight down after the dunks. That is the same problem you see for long distance truck drivers who bounce up and down on those “springy” seats.

Wow! Dwight would rather have the risky surgery than play another game with SVG. That is quite telling and, I hope he fully recovers. I think he will.

DawgNole

April 19th, 2012
9:48 pm

Make that tomorrow morning on Howard’s back surgery.

From the espn story:

“The back issues have forced Howard to miss eight games this season, one more game than he missed in his first seven seasons combined. His total of 621 games and 22,471 minutes is the most by a center in his first eight seasons in the modern-NBA era.”

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

April 19th, 2012
9:52 pm

DawgNole,

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 19th, 2012
8:38 pm

I am as big a realist as they come. Don’t worry about that, DawgNole.
_____________________

Figured you were. Are you a cynic as well (like I am)?

LinkReport this comment
****

jeje, maybe not as much. I think you have a few years on me so I can’t fully appreciate 0-45 ha

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
9:53 pm

“LOL! A little touchy there?”– drmaryb–

sounds like a description of Larry Drew….Hehehe

The Truth

April 19th, 2012
10:07 pm

“I don’t think it is a man in the mirror thing, I think it is a guy who has busted his butt to develop his skills so he can do more than what a 27 YO undrafted FA does.” – AJ

AJ, Al evolving his offensive skill is welcome news and was never suggested otherwise. But for the man in the middle main responsibilities, his first priority should be defending the paint, blocking shots, rebounding and other related intangibles. Being pick-and-pop capable is desired but should not be necessarily required.

The biggest complaint about Al on these blogs prior to his injury is that he has become a softy in the paint on defense and only interested in scoring mostly away from the basket. I often wrote after opponents victories against the Hawks; how their “block party in the paint” was a major factor. That was a direct swipe at Al.

Even LD has acknowledged that they can’t win games by just trying to outscore the opponents. He knows they need more physicality as the reason Ivan has been music to his ears. The outcry on these blogs for another big to help defend the paint has been so loud most of us need hearing aids as a result.

brigadierjerry

April 19th, 2012
10:16 pm

drmaryb,

thanks for the explanation between the different types between Amare, Dwight and Baron Davis. Out of the three which one is more likely to reoccur?Sounds like Amare but I could be wrong.

Slimjr,

What percentage do you give the Hawks against the Celtics if Hawks have homecourt advantage?Also let say Hawks beat Celtics who do you give them a better chance against Heat or Bulls?

doc

April 19th, 2012
10:23 pm

dawgnole @ 7:01

the answer is ….. hawks psychosis

brigadierjerry

April 19th, 2012
10:24 pm

It is interesting that and I have stated myself the Hawks win in spite of Larry Drew but I think the Heat do as well but they get away with it because of their three players and they play defense. I do not see any set plays runs with Miami. Bulls reminds me of those 90’s Knick an Heat teams that would wear u down with defense and rebounding. Look end of 3 and bulls down 5 without Rose. As long as you can keep Heat in halfcourt and keep turnovers and play solid defense you can have a chance against the Heat u have to swing the ball and make outside shots and rebound the ball

steven a smith

April 19th, 2012
10:24 pm

The Atlanta Hawks are only in the playoffs because of the Brook Lopez injury. Those early wins against New Jersey padded their record. Their record is misleading!!!

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 19th, 2012
10:29 pm

Call Em’ Out!

DawgNole – standing ovation for calling out the ole windy fart-bags and, sly red foxes. I’ve noticed the testy reach arounds on here too, from others when you don’t share their veiled opinions. When you call them out? They walk it back a little, but no one on here is stupid.

I will do and say what I please and if someone doesn’t like it – “SCROLL BABIES – SCROLL”. The rude name calling is not necessary, keep the personal opinions to your selves.

I don’t fight often, but when I do – I fight dirty! They know “I eat kids.”
__________

Just Joe

April 19th, 2012
10:32 pm

Boston signing Sean Williams for the playoffs. Hmmm….Hawks couldn’t pull off that move? Releasing J O’Neal.

Slimjr

April 19th, 2012
10:54 pm

Slimjr,

“What percentage do you give the Hawks against the Celtics if Hawks have homecourt advantage?Also let say Hawks beat Celtics who do you give them a better chance against Heat or Bulls?”

brigadierjerry, whats up homie? Glad you asked that question.. If I were a delusional homer like the dude who parrots his cousin “reach around”, I would say 85-15 Hawks with the home court. Since I tend to be a realist I’m going to say 55-45 Hawks.. LD’s substitution patterns have got to improve such as reduce Marvin’s minutes significantly. Increase Ivan minutes significantly along with T-Mac’s.. ZaZa has got to play effective also or else….Need positive contributions from Pargo and Green too.

If and I mean BIG {IF} the Hawks advance theoretically, I believe Chicago would be a hand full (Hawks may get one win,maybe).. So I will have to say Miami would be a much better match up..But forget about advancing this year… The Chief Gangster will see to it.. Hehehe

45 11-20

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 19th, 2012
11:15 pm

Ditto!

“Since I tend to be a realist I’m going to say 55-45 Hawks.. LD’s substitution patterns have got to improve such as reduce Marvin’s minutes significantly. Increase Ivan minutes significantly along with T-Mac’s.. ZaZa has got to play effective also or else….Need positive contributions from Pargo and Green too.

If and I mean BIG {IF} the Hawks advance theoretically, I believe Chicago would be a hand full (Hawks may get one win,maybe).. So I will have to say Miami would be a much better match up..But forget about advancing this year… The Chief Gangster will see to it.. Hehehe” -slim-sexy-
___________

Co-Sign that. Me too.

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 19th, 2012
11:29 pm

Boston gets Sean Williams.

Hawks should waive Damp and grab the best D-League PF/C available. Maybe Sund can pull a name out of Ivan to help us for the post season.

brigadierjerry

April 19th, 2012
11:36 pm

Interesting seeing all the teams in the Eastern Conference that are in the playoffs it is like the 90’s all over again.

Going down memory lane, I was looking at the Hawks draft picks in the late 80’s 90’s some of these draft picks were brutal, look below:

2000 2 57 Scoonie Penn Ohio State University
1999 1 10 Jason Terry University of Arizona
1999 1 17 Cal Bowdler Old Dominion University
1999 1 20 Dion Glover Georgia Institute of Technology
1999 1 27 Jumaine Jones University of Georgia
1998 1 20 Roshown McLeod Duke University
1998 2 49 Cory Carr Texas Tech University
1997 1 22 Ed Gray University of California
1997 2 49 Alain Digbeu
1997 2 50 Chris Crawford Marquette University
1996 1 28 Priest Lauderdale Central State University
1995 1 16 Alan Henderson Indiana University
1995 2 42 Donnie Boyce University of Colorado
1995 2 45 Troy Brown Providence College
1995 2 57 Cuonzo Martin Purdue University
1994 2 34 Gaylon Nickerson Northwestern Oklahoma State University
1993 1 15 Doug Edwards Florida State University
1993 2 40 Rich Manning University of Washington
1992 1 10 Adam Keefe Stanford University
1992 2 38 Elmer Bennett University of Notre Dame
1991 1 9 Stacey Augmon University of Nevada, Las Vegas
1991 1 15 Anthony Avent Seton Hall University
1991 2 30 Rodney Monroe North Carolina State University
1990 1 10 Rumeal Robinson University of Michigan
1990 2 36 Trevor Wilson University of California, Los Angeles
1990 2 41 Steve Bardo University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
1989 1 23 Roy Marble University of Iowa
1989 2 49 Haywoode Workman Oral Roberts University

I am not gonna lie, out of that group, I thought Roy Marble, Steve Bardo, Scoonie Penn, Jason Terry were gonna be decent and it turns out I was only right about Jason Terry.

By the way does anyone remember that Russian player that got drafted by the Hawks in the late 80’s early 90’s played on those Nique teams?I think his name was Alexander Volkov. I remember he got a lot of hype back then and he was an absolute bust. I think he went back to his country

Big Lou

April 20th, 2012
12:02 am

drmaryb

Nah, never touchy… unless you want me to. ;) I am passionate about ATL sports–all day, everyday. How about them Bravos? They keep killing the ball lately. I’m loving the runs.

Big Lou

April 20th, 2012
12:04 am

They will move to number one in the league in runs score after tonight.

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

April 20th, 2012
12:05 am

Granger is nowhere close to being a superstar. He can’t even make an All Star team without guysbgetting hurt. Gtfoh.

I overrated him too. He is a very good player. That’s all

doc

April 20th, 2012
12:23 am

cynicism

1. an attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others
2. a scornfully or jadedly negative comment or act

interesting

if the shoe fits

well

heh heh

easy to be jaded from atlanta and a fan of its sports teams, in fact it is too easy, maybe a sign of hopelessness or weakness. ;-) .

a team i loved to watch from the first puck drop, atlanta flames become the calgary flames and win the stanley cup. selah

a hung slider

a db goes for a walk on the wild side

bird again and again

the abl

pistol blows a knee and he was a superstar.

henry never gets anyone around him

asg becomes basg

the list goes on

easy to be weak

Grandmaster JeJe (GM)

April 20th, 2012
12:28 am

drmaryb.(*_*).
April 19th, 2012
11:29 pm

Boston gets Sean Williams.

Hawks should waive Damp and grab the best D-League PF/C available. Maybe Sund can pull a name out of Ivan to help us for the post season.

LinkReport this comment
****

You think Sund is going to stress himself out by finding some scrub to replace Erick WaHo?

smh, Miss Mary

doc

April 20th, 2012
12:33 am

stevew @8:14

the basg says this is about entertainment as the goal without the superstar supposedly putting the emphasis on the team

george karl is into developing a new model to compete to wn the big prize and cares nothing about the entertainment aspect

and i still shudder at how poorly the hawks were managed to get to this point. the issues are primarily there.

as i said to begin he season as i falsely predicted a win total of 33-36 wins we continue to slide down the scale. if boston wins then i might get the second part of it right because we are again fifth but i would give the hawks little chance against boston in seven without home court.

Najeh Davenpoop

April 20th, 2012
1:08 am

Hornets are 6-2 this season when Eric Gordon plays. Whoever gets him in free agency is going to improve by a lot. The Pacers have the cap room to make it happen, and if they do they will be scary.

vava74

April 20th, 2012
1:58 am

We stand little to no chance against the Celtics.

Our only real hope is that age becomes a factor and the injury bug hits them.

They MUCH MUCH better coached than we are and they have championship pedigree:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kevin-garnett-thanks-media-pathetic-articles-lousy-analysis-182047567.html;_ylt=AqA8LiqpV8NYj71JLCot_4.8vLYF

These guys are determined, resilient and confident.

Unless injuries derail them, we will lose to them.

I think it will be a close series (not worse than 4-2) but we will come out losers.

vava74

April 20th, 2012
2:10 am

On Horford:

The Truth had a very good post on the subject. As I said, I am not necessarily in full agreement, but it contains a very strong angle on the subject.

My “disagreement” is that I am even more critical of Al than Truth is and I really doubt that Al has the cojones to go back into the paint.

His overall demeanor has indeed went the soft path and sincerely, I don’t think he will revert back to Boss Al under Drew.

I think that much of Boss Al’s past toughness came from his coach at Florida (Donovan) and from playing with Noah who is simply electric.

Drew is an enabler, which happens to be the good formula, IMO, for Josh’s recent evolution who needed and deserved to become the Hawks’ focal point on offense.

Since Drew – somehow by default, due to injuries – enabled that Josh became and remained as the offense’s focal point, Josh’s focus has improved and his effort levels within games and from game to game became a lot more stable.

AJ will disagree with me, but as a boss/coach you need to lead your personnel with a mix between setting up a rule AND understand that people need some personalized “adjustments”.

A hard line stance on a given instruction does not work with everyone, in particular in a league where coaches are not seen by players as their “bosses”.

On this subject:

Teague’s self confidence is shaky, he needs pampering and a good coach would have pampered him and built his confidence.

Woody and LD shattered his confidence.

Another example on how mentally weak Teague is – in my opinion, he wasn’t when he came into the league – since he airballed that 3 at the buzzer against the Celtics, his 3 point shot is COMPLETELY OFF when previously he was hitting those shots at close to .400.

He has taken that “that guy is nobody” take from Garnett to his heart and he has completely lost his mojo from the outside.

This will also be a factor in the playoffs. I very much doubt that Teague will not sulk and shrink against BOS.

vava74

April 20th, 2012
2:18 am

Forgot to make a conclusion on the first part of the previous post:

Since LD is an enabler, I don’t think he will have a good influence in curbing Horford’s softness and his “enabling” ways will lead to a conflicting roles between Horford and Josh.

Josh has superior offensive skills and should continue to have more shots – that is essential for him to be motivated.

Al should be using his superior mobility to go back to snatching offensive rebounds and getting his points out of garbage plays.

Yes, Horford midrange is very good, but that was a byproduct of slow scouting – everyone was leaving him wide open.

Horford’s mid range shots can still be a feature in our offense BUT at a much smaller rate since defenses will close him out, as last year’s playoffs proved to satisfaction.

With the rock in Josh’s hands down low, he would have three good options:

1. Force a shot over double/triple teams in the post with Al working the offensive boards.
2. Pass to JJ for perimeter shots out of the double teams.
3. Pass to Al for elbow shots out of the double teams.

Al does not and will not command double teams. That makes him AT BEST a #3 option on offense.

Given Josh 20 shots per, JJ between 14 and 18 and let Teague and Al fight for being the #3 option (I would prefer that Teague gets more touches).

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 20th, 2012
7:33 am

Too Much Good Stuff!

Vava74 is on FIYAH!!! Nice work, comments and insights all the way around. I’m glad you’re a Hawks fan.

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 20th, 2012
7:36 am

Vava! We need your brother – Zaza.
Ha Ha … That rhymes.

Let’s Go Hawks! 89-84 Hawks 2Nite

Admiral Snackbar

April 20th, 2012
7:37 am

“Boston is going to be a division champion. A non-division championship team with a record better than a division champion (or champions, plural) can be seeded higher — but just the single winningest non-division champion can do that under NBA rules. The Hawks are three games behind the No. 3 Pacers (40-22), who have won six straight but cannot catch their division-leading Bulls.”

hawks ain’t the single winningest non division winner, we are number 2 so we can’t get home court against the Celts.

Admiral Snackbar

April 20th, 2012
7:42 am

if the coach has to mollycoddle Josh to get him to play then Josh should be traded while he has value.

Grandad

April 20th, 2012
7:54 am

vava

You are way overstating the case for what is a
“coach`s job description”.
A coach has no control over a player`s personality.
It has been way overstated about LD`s ruinng Teaguer`s confidence.
[I`ll come back to that.]
Personally, my opinion all the folderol about Al`s softness
has been overstated as well.
Butr to address Al`s softness, one last time, here goes:
when that coward and bush league, plus downright dirty Blake Griffin;
took that cheap shot on Al … what ? two yrs ago … I think that has
left a psychchological scar on Al.
Upon which he has yet to overcome. Now this surgery in addition
will be another hurdle to overcome.
Now this is me doing nothing more than being Dr Phil just as you
have been doing. My theory holds just as much water.

I said I would come back to Jeff Teague.
Wdsn did the most damage to Teague because the young man
is / was fragile to begin with.
He is meek by nature. No coach ruined him.
Perhaps some coach one day may motivate him better than another
but no coach can alter a kid`s personality.
A person`s basic personality is what it is.

My hope is that Al can overcome his trauma.

Grown men sinking to calling other grown men petty names
that debase their manhood is puerile at best, mean spirited at worst.

O'brien

April 20th, 2012
7:54 am

Truth,

So the offense shifted to featuring AL in a pick-and-pop role that he embraced..

Al has never been featured. Only JJ and now Josh has been featured.

But for the man in the middle main responsibilities, his first priority should be defending the paint, blocking shots, rebounding and other related intangibles..

It depends on the makeup of the team, and the type of player. Not all centers are created equally.

Al is not the shot blocker or help defender) that Josh is, but he plays good defense on his guy . And, let’s not forget that Al was playing with guys like Bibby and Jamal on the perimeter. How would Al’s defense have looked playing a full season with Teague defending the PG? I think his defense would improve.

O'brien

April 20th, 2012
7:58 am

AJ,

It might be a few picks early, but a project center the Hawks could take is Fab Melo from Syracuse. 7′, 250 lbs. Draft Express has him at #28.

Najeh,

Isn’t Eric Gordon restricted though? If he is, I dont think N.O. will let him get away. But the Pacers would be scary if they could sign him.

drmaryb.[*_*].

April 20th, 2012
8:02 am

West Coast!

Suns and Utah are dead locked for the 8th seed, looks like the Suns win the tie breaker:

33 – 30 (.524) Last 10 Games: 6 – 4

I hope Utah knocks the Suns outa’ there, so the Hawks move up a spot for the 2nd round pick. With the draft being so deep, perhaps we can find a sleeper pick there. Knowing Sund, he will sell that pick for cash to line ASKG pockets just a little deeper. They need a digital scoreboard.

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 20th, 2012
8:18 am

OB

Nice counter point re: Horfy’s role in the past with Bibby around and, what could have been With MVT.

Also, I hope you are right about Fab Melo falling to #28, we sure could use a big man project at that size. Fire Van Exel and get a big man coach in here. I like where we are at with Al, Zaza’s emergence with fair PT and, MVT @ point.

We have found some strengths through all the injuries, especially with Josh’s step up to another level plays. Josh has a few more notches he can improve upon with his shot selection. However. his 16′ rainbows look very solid to me from the 45 degree angle around the arc.

Have to give coach Drew a shout out for managing all the volatile personalities on this team: TMac, Josh and Ivan. We must admit that Joe is low-maintenance from a personality perspective.

Hope Kirk. Parg, Green and Vlad steps up in the post season. I’m not worried about TMac, he always takes his time and makes the right play, defends, rebounds, passes and scores.

vava74

April 20th, 2012
8:55 am

Grandad,

LD said before training camp last year that Teague would be the starter and then went on the whole year barely giving him any chance to play.

He also was guilty of awarding Teague with DNP-CDs left and right AFTER good performances.

LD coaches scared and only injuries force him to make personnel decisions.

The only exception was Collins against ORL, but after a beat-down of biblical proportions during the previous year, only an full blown idiot would not try a different approach to Woody’s.

Teague’s college career indicates that he was the leader of his Wake Forest teams and the clips which are available on youtube are pretty telling of his fearless character before entering the league.

Teague’s THIRD game in this league was in LA against the Lakers. He almost single handedly brought us back into the game, capping his performance with a thunderous dunk on Lamar Odom.

12 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 steals, 1 TO in 16 minutes and 46 seconds.

Do you know what happened on the following game? DNP-CD

I am trying to get hold of Teague’s stats on that pre-season, but if memory serves me right, his numbers before a huge stinker against ORL to close the pre-season, were more or less in line with what he posted this year and last year during the CHI series.

Teague’s spirit has been hammered and broken down during 3 full years. The player we saw against CHI last year was always there.

This year LD has again tried to undermine him: when Kirk came back, completely out of sync, he started to sub Teague at the 6/7th minute mark regardless of how well he was playing.

We lost a substantial number of games during that period and if it wasn’t for JJ’s injury, forcing LD to again change the line up and introduce Hinrich as a SG we would still be watching LD taking Teague out by that same 6/7th minute mark.

vava74

April 20th, 2012
8:58 am

Oh, and for the people banking on Fab Melo dropping onto our laps, forget it.

No 7′ with perceived talent/skill/potential drops that far.

I would go out on limb and say that he will not be selected below the 14th pick even without looking at mock drafts and knowing who is ahead of him theoretically.

vava74

April 20th, 2012
8:59 am

drmaryb,

thank’s for the props. I should have re-started from there, but I was not polite enough to do it.

i hope you forgive me!

vava74

April 20th, 2012
9:04 am

One final note, before I go back into work mode:

We need to take the risk and get T-Mac as many minutes as possible during these final games.

Apart of the risk of him breaking down, we have to consider the potential benefits coming from those extended minutes:

a) He would get his playing legs going;

and most importantly,

b) His name would become visible again (if he performed well), so he could get the calls and respect from the refs during playoff time.

Basically, T-Mac is still playing, but psychologically for the refs he is “out of the league” so he is not getting ANY calls going on his favor.

He has been consistently hacked and whacked when he drives and getting less than 1/3rd of the calls he should be getting.

That would change if he managed to average on or around 15ppg for this final leg, playing 25 minutes per.

O'brien

April 20th, 2012
9:13 am

Rick Sund live on 790 the zone right now.

doc

April 20th, 2012
9:32 am

o’b didnt catch much of it but rick was on 680 yesterday. the last time i think he was on was when they were heading into february 10 games over .500 and saying LD reminded him of nate mcmillan in his first year stating the obvious, he hired a rookie. guess they are trying to build up some advertising visibility and cred before the playoffs. yeah, right! oops, there i go being cynical again when it comes to the basg, always.

o’b share any tidbits bro.

Astro Joe

April 20th, 2012
9:47 am

vava, you’re right, I have very little sympathy for the weak-minded and emotionally insecure. Step up or step off would be my answer to it all (or get some meds).

Folk want Al to be something he is not. He isn’t the super-athlete to be able to overcome his smallish stature compared to other true centers. Yet, he still has been effective against guys like Lopez and Hibbert in the past. So instead of trying to be Amare or Dwight and fail to simply jump over guys, he has worked on other parts of his game. His low-post game hasn’t come as far as his mid-range game, but he clearly has worked at it. And because he is a terrific passer and makes very good decisions in general, you can feed him the ball in the low post and run half-court sets through him. That doesn’t mean he will rule the paint like Al Jefferson or Z-Bo, but it does mean that the TEAM has a good chance of scoring out of that set. His shot blocking skills are average. Most teams don’t want to have two weak side defenders because it will potentially leave 2 players cutting to the basket (when those guys are left by the weak side defenders). I think Al could post more blocks but with Josh on the floor, it makes little sense to have Al do what Josh does so well.

Al’s problem is that he isn’t quite big enough, athletic enough or tough enough. meanwhile, he still routinely produces 14/10 as the team’s 3rd (or 4th) scoring option. He is one of the best pick and roll defenders in the league because of his agility and quick feet. Again, I’m not sure what dude needs to apologize for… not being some hybrid of Ben Wallace, Shawn Kemp and Karl Malone?

Najeh Davenpoop

April 20th, 2012
9:51 am

“when that coward and bush league, plus downright dirty Blake Griffin;
took that cheap shot on Al … what ? two yrs ago … I think that has
left a psychchological scar on Al.”

I was at that game and I didn’t think it was that much of a cheap shot. It was a hard foul, but Al had a wide open lane for a game-winning layup and Griffin was out of position. What was Griffin supposed to do, let him score?

I mean, Griffin takes a cheap shot like that literally every game, and it hasn’t affected him psychologically. If Al is still thinking about that, he is softer than a baby’s ass. For that matter, if decapitating TJ Ford is the reason he doesn’t consistently come over from the weak side to try to block shots anymore, he is softer than a baby’s ass.

Astro Joe

April 20th, 2012
9:52 am

OB, I know the name (And a great one at that) but I have only seen highlights of Syracuse on TV. But he sounds like the kind of project center worth drafting.

Mary, the Hawks DO have a big man coach, his name is Tyrone Hill. Now, are you suggesting that a former player who probably never averaged 14 points in the league may not be the ideal tutor on how to score in the low post (at least he is better than Alton Lister)? Well, according to some around here, position coaches don’t do anything anyway…. skills are developed exclusively by playing in real games. :twisted:

O'brien

April 20th, 2012
9:58 am

Some good stuff from Rick Sund’s interview.

1) They relived the Boston-Hawks series from ’08, and he gave major props to the crowd for helping lift the players.

2) His opinion…very unlikely that Al will have a Willis Reed moment this playoff

3) Looking at the last 4 or 5 NBA champions, they all had one of the oldest benches in the league. So he didn’t want the Hawks to have guys who would take 3-4 years to develop, and hav to rely on them in the playoffs. They wanted vets who can help now. And although they liked Jamal, they needed more depth.

4) He is pleasantly surprised at what Stackhouse has done (off the court and on the court).

O'brien

April 20th, 2012
9:59 am

The most interesting comments (to me) from Rick.

5) Didn’t talk much about Josh Smith trade rumors. But he is not a big believer in mid-season trades. However, he thought the Hinrich trade was necessary, and thought Hinrich played well last year.

6) He checks box scores from around the league, and he does take notice of certain guy’s stat lines, like JC1 and JC2.

7) They asked abut Howard trying to get SVG fired, and the relationship between coach and GM. He gave an interesting example. He said during Teague’s rookie year, he wasn’t ready to play. But he went to Woody and asked him to play Teague a certain amount of minutes every home game (if possible), because young/bench players tend to play better at home, and it could help in his development. And he said Woody obliged (although he didn’t have to).

8) He said when JJ got hurt, he called NBA’s head of basketball operations (Stu Jackson) and lobbied for them to give Josh his slot.

Najeh Davenpoop

April 20th, 2012
9:59 am

For the record, I don’t think Al’s offensive game becoming more perimeter oriented is a result of that Griffin foul as much as it is a result of his jumper developing at a much faster rate than his low post game. To be honest, I don’t even have a huge problem with him being a better version of Ryan Anderson offensively, which is basically what he was last year. Sh-t, if he can extend his range out to the 3 point line, he would complement Josh pretty nicely and be in position to use his quickness to take people off the dribble more often.

My beef with him is more on the other end of the floor, where he doesn’t help on D enough and doesn’t play physically enough. The Hawks’ D is better this year than it was last year, and while Zaza isn’t the main reason, the fact that he plays with more physicality than Al has helped. A bench player who by and large didn’t do sh-t for the last two seasons shouldn’t come in and be an upgrade over an All NBA player in any respect. If Al can get back to being Boss Al on D, I don’t even really mind his offensive game being centered around jump shooting.

Najeh Davenpoop

April 20th, 2012
10:01 am

“Looking at the last 4 or 5 NBA champions, they all had one of the oldest benches in the league. So he didn’t want the Hawks to have guys who would take 3-4 years to develop, and hav to rely on them in the playoffs. They wanted vets who can help now. And although they liked Jamal, they needed more depth.”

Smart move on his part. He deserves props for this. Then again, some of those vets on the bench could have been better players if he didn’t paint himself into the corner where he only had minimum salary contracts to hand out.

drmaryb.(*_*).

April 20th, 2012
10:03 am

Astro Joe

April 20th, 2012
10:09 am

OB, I heard the thing about Woody playing Teague during home games before. And also about older benches. It makes even more sense when you factor in the lack of practice time during this crazy season (not that practice helps individual players…HA… but at least it allows guys to figure out where they are supposed to be in offensive/defensive sets). I liked our bench from the start… several players capable of being at least average on both sides of the floor… something we haven’t seen around here sense forever. I’m still looking for my boy Vlad-Rad to ignite during a playoff game… Vlad will “make it rain” before all is said and done.

[...] his self-imposed deadline as he seeks to rejoin the Atlanta Hawks prior to the NBA Playoffs, and it’s not sitting well with him. Reports the AJC following Horford’s first full-contact workout with the team post-surgery to [...]

doc

April 20th, 2012
10:17 am

well then, i hope to be singing in the rain, aj. hopes are not up though.

vava74

April 20th, 2012
10:52 am

“I mean, Griffin takes a cheap shot like that literally every game, and it hasn’t affected him psychologically. If Al is still thinking about that, he is softer than a baby’s ass. For that matter, if decapitating TJ Ford is the reason he doesn’t consistently come over from the weak side to try to block shots anymore, he is softer than a baby’s ass.”

Unfortunately, I think this is the case. Al is simply too nice and outside the martial environment Donovan implemented and away from Noah’s perpetual hustle, he is simply settling within his innermost nature.

Grandad

April 20th, 2012
10:53 am

vava

My points will stand as stated about Teague;
your points are valid as well,
I do not care to go `round & `round over that topic.

Slimjr

April 20th, 2012
11:04 am

Robotus help defense is absolutely atrocious!

He is one of the main reasons why this squad has an abyssal record of 2-12 (.143) in the 2nd round!

Grandad

April 20th, 2012
11:16 am

Najeh

You were at the game, I was not. [Griffin v Horford]
I did see it live on telecast 7 many times thereafter in review.
* note – Al`s toughness was championed on the blog by many
that eve due to his resolute character and mettle geting off the deck,
converting both FTs thereby winning the game.

On another matter:

Blake Griffin is a bush League, cheap Shot, Dirty Player.
A cowardly, faux tough guy who also fakes injuries, flops,
and hides behind his buddy DeAndre Jordan or ‘`Real`’ Tough guy
Reggie Evans. He dunks on people mocks them and whines & pouts
when he gets a touch foul.
Yet he never fouls anyone ….. noooooooooooo !
His rep around the league is – he`s a dirty player.
I`ve read numerous articles concerning such
& no I have not documented as I didn`t think
I was going to need to do so.

Slimjr

April 20th, 2012
11:16 am

His only weapon, the set shot from mid range is easily neutralized in the 2nd rd because he’s not given wide open looks anymore so essentially he becomes a liability and now other more skilled teammates have to take up the slack for this Allstar/AllNBA player.. Sad…

You notice when he played a full season last year he was involved in some of the biggest blowout losses.. Mike Bibby was addressed.. This guy should be addressed too when he returns..Playing this very limited offensively skilled player at the 4 will have disastrous complications.. He could probably could be used to acquire high draft picks..He cant take you to the ECF..

We have seen this B4?

Grandad

April 20th, 2012
11:17 am

vava

Fab Melo may drop to the 2nd round

Think:

Hasheem Thabeet

Grandad

April 20th, 2012
11:25 am

Mary Ellen

We do not want Fab Melo:

*Andrew Nicholson … St Bonnie
*Kyle 0`Quinn … Norfolk St.
*Henry Sims … Georgetown
*Festus Ezeli … Vandy

** Each of these would be better choices !
- @ our Hawks drafting position -

Please NO … fab melo = hasheem thabeet

Ken Strickland

April 20th, 2012
11:26 am

NAJEH DAVENPOOP-If one accepted your analogy on Horford and the qualities you think would make him as soft as a baby’s ass, then you’d have to say Wilt Chamberland was also as soft as a baby’s ass. It was widely known that he had an issue about hurting players, which is why he never got physical, and never retaliated in anyway when players were overly physical with him.

I also remember when a world class boxer named Emile Griffith was destined to be one of the greatest boxers ever, until he beat Bennie THE KID Parrett so badly that he died in the ring. He was never the same once he lost his killer instinct. Would you call him a soft ass for that? Would you call Ali a soft ass because he’d often waved for the ref to stop the fight because he didn’t want to continue hitting an opponent after it was apparent he wasn’t fighting back?

Night in and night out, no other Hawks player has to contend with anywhere close to the number of disadvantages that Horford does. He usually goes up against centers that are taller, bigger, stronger, or all of the above, on a routine basis. Even with all of these consistent disadvanges, he has still managed to not only hold his own, but perform at an ALLSTAR and ALLPRO level. I don’t know of any soft asses, especially at OC, that can function at that level.

It’s funny when you think of how many Hawks fans were clamoring for us to sign Shaq when he was a FA. The same big, strong, physical Shaq who missed so many gms do to injuries that other players play through routinely. In fact, that was the cause of the rift between he and Kobe. Shaq wouldn’t play through a sprained thumb, toe, when Kobe was playing through fractured and broken bones. I guess Shaq was a soft ass as well.

Rusty

April 20th, 2012
11:34 am

Vava 74 great insight,I agree with your views on LD, JT & TMac.

The Truth

April 20th, 2012
11:45 am

“Al has never been featured. Only JJ and now Josh has been featured.” – OB

That’s not “The Truth”. In LD offense while Al played, Al was a scoring option in pick-and-pop plays. If that was not the case, then how have learned about Al improved mid-range game. by accident?

“But for the man in the middle main responsibilities, his first priority should be defending the paint, blocking shots, rebounding and other related intangibles.” – The Truth

“It depends on the makeup of the team, and the type of player. Not all centers are created equally.” – OB

So if the things I mentioned aren’t part of a center main responsibility, than what are? Please enlighten us

The Truth

April 20th, 2012
11:48 am

^If that was not the case, then how have we learned about Al improved mid-range game. by accident?^

vava74

April 20th, 2012
11:50 am

Grandad,

I was not commenting on Fab Melo’s worth. Never seen him play, not even on youtube clips.

My comment was about how high 7′ with perceived talent/skill are picked and that he would not fall so far in the draft order.

Thabeet is an example that actually goes in favor of my argument: the list of crappy 7′ picked high in the first round is big enough to make a human belt around the globe.

Unless Fab Melo completely sucks in his try outs, there will be certainly a GM on #5 to #10 which will take a flier on him.

KevinM

April 20th, 2012
11:53 am

New blog by Viv…..http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/04/20/pachulia-out-versus-celtics/?cp=1#comment-292644

Astro Joe

April 20th, 2012
11:53 am

The Truth, in March, Josh averaged around 20 FGAs/game. Joe usually averages around 15. Al, has only reached 13 in a month once. And he went for soemthing like 17/12 that month. I think that is what OB means by “featured”. Al, last year, was 4th in FGAs behind Joe, Jamal and Josh. So while he gets FGAs, he certainly isn’t “featured”.

Folk want himt o play differently but differently may not translate into more effectively.

Rod from College Park

April 20th, 2012
11:55 am

” A bench player who by and large didn’t do sh-t for the last two seasons shouldn’t come in and be an upgrade over an All NBA player in any respect.”

Totally Agree.

“Night in and night out, no other Hawks player has to contend with anywhere close to the number of disadvantages that Horford does. He usually goes up against centers that are taller, bigger, stronger, or all of the above, on a routine basis. Even with all of these consistent disadvanges, he has still managed to not only hold his own, but perform at an ALLSTAR and ALLPRO level. I don’t know of any soft asses, especially at OC, that can function at that level.”

No one on this team deals with more defensive responsibility, or mismatches than Josh Smith. Josh has guarded everything from top notch 2 guards to centers. Al is scared of Dwight Howard, and wants nothing to do with him, Josh is not. Al is a good man to man defender, but his help defense is not good at all. Even though a lot of centers are bigger than Al, he has the quickness and agility qualities that balance the size difference out. Simply put, he had just become soft.

[...] Al Horford is frustrated he is not healing more quickly. I imagine Larry Drew is as [...]

The Truth

April 20th, 2012
12:38 pm

AJ
It’s always risky trying to guess a blogger’s intent with word usage. Perhaps you’re splitting hairs with my use of the word “feature”. I intended the word feature to mean showcase or highlight, nothing more. To break it down another way, LD ran “set” plays for Al “showcasing” his midrange shooting skills. Of course the defense and his success rate dictated his attempts. So you trying to translate the FGA stat line of Al, Josh and JJ to determine whether they were a featured offense or not is bit of stretch IMO.

Maybe the word “featured offense” is being misunderstood with “the focal point of the offense”. In that case, the FGA stat line might then be applied
.

[...] Al Horford is frustrated he is not healing more quickly. I imagine Larry Drew is as [...]

Ken Strickland

April 20th, 2012
5:57 pm

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