Atlanta Hawks: Video: Life without Zaza
I talked Hawks with CineSport’s Tara Petrolino after Atlanta’s 109-87 victory over the Raptors.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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175 comments Add your comment
Swatguy
April 17th, 2012
9:11 am
And no mention of Al. Boston’s remaining schedule is as tough or more than the Hawks. An inspired Orlando would make it interesting. I would not be surprised if Atlanta and Orlando wind up 4/5.
Show me state
April 17th, 2012
9:13 am
I’m hoping ZaZa can comeback before the playoffs. Rhythm is key going into the playoffs for da Hawks.
Edgewood Adam
April 17th, 2012
9:22 am
Any doctors on the blog?? How serious is this ZaZa injury. No Zaza = No second round.
doc
April 17th, 2012
9:42 am
uh good lighting there mc.
guess marvin will have to become a man and play some power forward.
hard to say on the injury and recovery time. as it is documented, sprains are tough to gage for recovery, especially the foot and a scenario of heal vs extending the damage. he will need a really good tape job if he is on the court. a sprain of the foot still takes 6 wks to heal but there is repeated trauma with each step so it can worsen easily. been a tough year on these bodies because of how the schedule was mapped out, crazy.
Laurice
April 17th, 2012
9:43 am
Good video MC!!
Im really hoping Zaza can come back ASAP!
Big C
April 17th, 2012
9:46 am
We need Z!!! What is latest on Al?
Ernest
April 17th, 2012
9:53 am
MC, who has the tie breaker between Boston and Orlando? You mentioned in the other blog their tie breakers with Atlanta but this could be important also.
Section 303
April 17th, 2012
9:54 am
One injury after another this season…just never stops. I can’t think of any team that has dealt with more injuries than the Hawks. It is amazing they are in the hunt to have home court in the first round.
They cannot throw away the Detroit game tomorrown night. Pistons are a lot like the Raptors. Teams that are out of it, but not playing like they are out of it. Pistons have been playing tough lately.
O'brien
April 17th, 2012
9:55 am
I hope Zaza can come back healthy, because if we have to play Twin/Dampier major minutes at Center, we will be in trouble. Hopefully LD will get Dampier some PT these last few games.
As for the schedule, the Hawks can fall to 6th and play @ Indiana, or have home court over Boston. Give me Boston. Will they be tougher than Indiana? Yes. But in their mind, I think the Hawks believe they can play with Boston. And the Hawks are a mental team.
And if we somehow get past Boston, I would rather play Chicago in the second round, especially since D-Rose might be banged up.
O'brien
April 17th, 2012
9:56 am
FTPB,
Rod,
Some people say Marvin needs more PT, or more shot attempts. But look at how Ivan is impacting the game in his reserve minutes, for the vet min salary. No excuses for Marvin.
O'brien
April 17th, 2012
10:02 am
As for the game, I’m happy for the win. LD might need to get in Teague’s ear before every game (although it shouldn’t have to be that way). I don’t know why Teague has to be prodded.
In Sunday’s game against the Raptors, Josh went 7-14 on his jumpers outside the paint. Last night, he went 4-11 on his jumpers. In the playoffs, teams will tempt him to take 10+ jumpers every game. And one thing with Josh. Just because he is missing will not stop him from taking them.
And hopefully JJ can find his 3-pt stroke. Last 6 games he has been terrible.
Mark
April 17th, 2012
10:07 am
Wasn’t Marvin that fell on Zaza’s foot the other night because of his CLUMSINESS! Boy that Marvin is a goof ball!
Mark
April 17th, 2012
10:16 am
@ Michael Cunningham
Boy you gotta love LD’s COMPLIMENT of Ivan’s play last night:
Drew on Ivan: “The thing with him, he is a guy who comes in every night I know what he’s going to bring from an energy standpoint. He may make some turnovers, he may take some bad shots, he may botch some defensive assignments. But I do know every time I put him in between those lines he’s going to give me 110 percent from an energy standpoint. He did it last night and came back and did it again tonight.”
And it was you Michael Cunningham that took a shot at us on Saturday when you wrote about Ivan being back at full status. You than took a shot at us FANS/BLOGGERS by saying, “I know this is the kind of thing that inspires conspiracy theories among those who like to fashion the facts to fit their preferred narrative about Drew’s relationship with players.” Maybe you want to reconsider your CONSPIRACY THEORY and write about the fact that Larry “Stupid” Drew can’t even COMPLIMENT Ivan without tearing him down. I guess Josh never NEVER TAKES BAD SHOTS or MAKES TURNOVERS! All we hear about Josh is that he is PHENOMENAL among other compliments. I DARE YOU to write an article or blog on that Cunningham. Like I told you on Saturday, why don’t you just QUIT and give the job to VIVLAMORE. By the way good interview.
Rev in Tampa
April 17th, 2012
10:19 am
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1014529-most-obnoxious-player-on-every-nba-team?utm_campaign=outbrain&utm_source=outbrain.com&utm_medium=referral#/articles/1014529-most-obnoxious-player-on-every-nba-team/page/2
This article blames Josh for being the player who holds the Hawks back from being elite. I think he is the reason they are as good as they are. The areas that Josh could improve would make him an All-star but I don’t think it propels the Hawks into the elite status.
KevinM
April 17th, 2012
10:22 am
Marvin has had ample oportunity to get his minutes. We know he is better with limited minutes and Ivan has earned his slot.
We do Zaza to compete though; there isn’t enough fouls to go around and the interior defense is hindered.
I’m with OB; give me Boston and there is no reason not to be focused each game. But the reality is we will be lucky to get out of the 1st round this year. We won’t have Al on the court…I expect nothing from him and he will be a question mark until next season.
Grandad
April 17th, 2012
10:25 am
Tara Petrolino is a peppy little enunciator isn`t she ?
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
10:31 am
“guess marvin will have to become a man and play some power forward.”
Marvin has arguably been better at (backup) PF this season anyway.
Mark
April 17th, 2012
10:32 am
@ Rev in Tampa
You wrote on Saturday: Mark, “I’m no fan of Larry Drew. But you can’t rag on MC for not tearing him apart. Fisrt, it would hurt his access. But more importantly, it wouldn’t be true. Larry Drew has this team winning. They are exceeding all our expectations. He has overcome their disfunctions, their loss of Horford, and their numerous other injuries. Who among us would have thought they’d be seriously competing for 3rd in the east?
Either you have to give Drew credit or Sund credit for putting together such a good roster that is able to overcome Drew’s definiencies. Who gets the credit, Mark? Please tell us…
To answer your question Rev, Sund is who gets the Credit not Larry Drew. The only reason Larry Drew is even coaching this team is because he comes CHEAP. I wish you had heard the announcers on ABC the other talk about how Woody improved the hawks and how they NEVER should have gotten rid of him. Secondly, I get on Michael Cunningham because he never writes articles Calling out our GREAT HEAD COACH lol! Third, you stated that this team has exceeded our expectations and Drew has the winning. I don’t know what your expectations, but for me it is more than MAKING THE PLAYOFFS! They win DESPITE DREW not because of him. This team learned how to win under Woody.
Mark
April 17th, 2012
10:34 am
It’s crazy how Marvin never has injuries that knock him out for long periods during the season, we really don’t need him.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
10:38 am
Bleacher Report is basically what you would have if T-S started his own sports blog. Nothing there has any more credibility than anything posted here. Those are articles written by random fans, and from the tone I’m willing to bet many of those fans are hung over college students writing articles during class.
Nick
April 17th, 2012
10:42 am
why we dont have a superstar player? Jo Johnson is not a superstar. we need to trade Jo Johnson and acquire a super star type player. This city is longing for a super star. Chicago Bulls and Miami are ahead of us why cuz of stars.
Rev in Tampa
April 17th, 2012
10:53 am
The Hawks quit on Woody resulting in one of the most embarrassing collapses in all of professional sports (rivaled only by the Braves/Red Sox last season). I bet several on the blog can easily recall from memory the point total that the Magic beat the Hawks by in the 2010 playoffs.
A big part of coaching is motivating the players. Larry Drew has the secret button that he presses to make this team go. (Apparently he forgot to press it Sunday night.)
That’s as far as I am able to go in giving Drew credit. Just about everything else he does befuddles me. But that one element is HUGE in making this mentally dysfunctional team “go”.
And, as I have pointed out before, MC called out Drew for not playing Teague last year. MC was relentless and bold, yet classy. It made Drew look foolish. But Drew did not change his stubborn ways until forced to by Hinrich’s injury.
So, I give Drew credit for moving the Hawks past the PLATEAU that Woody reached, but that’s about it.
Nick
April 17th, 2012
10:56 am
We never had a super stars until we do we’re not going no where
doc
April 17th, 2012
11:31 am
yup najeh, only wish he would embrace it.
jay
April 17th, 2012
12:04 pm
Woody was a terrible coach and if he were still here we’d still be seeing Joe dribble for 22 seconds and bricking. We’d still have centers switching to point guards at the 3 point line. Teague would be out of the league. Josh would still be getting ejected from games. I’m suprised there are so many Drew haters. He took a team that got spanked by the Majic in the playoffs and had them spank that same Majic team. He has Ivan Johnson playing like he belongs. He has Zaza filling in nicely at center when Zaza is truly a back up at best. Willie Green and Pargo have been lights out in their roles. He’s kept McGrady healthy the entire season. I could go on and on, but the fact is this team actually looks like a real ball club with Drew even with the lack of talent.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
12:06 pm
Al cleared for contact work per MC’s Twitter.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
12:09 pm
“Woody was a terrible coach and if he were still here we’d still be seeing Joe dribble for 22 seconds and bricking. We’d still have centers switching to point guards at the 3 point line. Teague would be out of the league. Josh would still be getting ejected from games. I’m suprised there are so many Drew haters. ”
There are Drew haters because he is hopelessly mediocre. You are correct that he is much better than Woody, but that is a little like saying Bridget The Midget is taller than Mini-Me.
Dawg
April 17th, 2012
12:19 pm
LD is better than Woody. LD seems at least to be learning as he goes. Woody, not.
Ra'mon
April 17th, 2012
12:25 pm
Najeh, if LD is better than Woody. And neither are above average coaches. Yet both have reached the 2nd round of playoffs with THIS CORE, wouldn’t we have to say that the CORE is underrated (Joe, Josh and Al)?
jay
April 17th, 2012
12:27 pm
There are Drew haters because he is hopelessly mediocre.
Based on his results(the team’s record under his tenure and a playoff series win and challenging CHI) I’d have to disagree. Obviously they aren’t getting his bust ready for the Hall or anything, but he is much better than mediocre. I’m lost on what you guys are expecting from him. Josh Smith is the only true allstar on this team and they are in the mix for the 3 seed in the conf and if not that, they should get home court advantage. And this is without a real cente and with the fake center albeit an awesome talent in AH hurt.
Ra'mon
April 17th, 2012
12:28 pm
Dawg, That is incorrect. If you watch the Knicks play, they are actually running OFFENSIVE PLAYS which is different than when Woody was here. So he has improved.
Rev in Tampa
April 17th, 2012
12:33 pm
Horford is cleared for contact work within 24 hours of Zaza being pronouced out for most of rest of the season. Coincidence? Hmmm…
Surely somebody will concoct a semi-plausible conspiricy.
O'brien
April 17th, 2012
12:37 pm
Rev,
101 points combined
But players did quit on Woody. However, Woody also shared some of the blame for being unable to adjust. We couldnt stop Dwight, and we couldnt stop the shooters.
O'brien
April 17th, 2012
12:51 pm
And while I also think LD is a better coach than Woody, please keep in mind that the team did not quit on Woody until year 6. This is only LD’s second year, and the players did campaign for him, so I’m not surprised he is able to make them go.
Dawg
April 17th, 2012
1:11 pm
Ramon: True, I haven’t even watched the Knicks.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 17th, 2012
1:42 pm
Foot Sprain!
And, to add to what doc said, the foot is the ultimate weight bearing joint. The foot sustains the total body weight and, is a collection of 27 bones that come together to form all it’s joints.
I specialize in extremity joints alignment (arms and legs) which, end with hands and feet. Like doc said, it depends on the severity of the sprain and specific joint location.
I didn’t see the MOI (mechanism of injury) de he come down wrong? Or, did someone step on his planted foot while he was out of position.
We just don’t have enough medical information here. I saw the report yesterday that, it was worse than first reported. So really, who knows? Sprains are extremely painful and tough to heal for world class athletes that depend on their bodies to perform at high levels.
WhAt a brutal year for the NBA! Blame Stern!
Mark
April 17th, 2012
1:47 pm
@jay
Really Jay, you think Woody was a terrible coach. First of all Woody never had the point guard that Drew has and please don’t count Teague rookie year. He needed to sit the bench that year to learn. I wish people will please stop saying that Drew got us past the Magic when in fact it wasn’t the SAME MAGIC TEAM. The Magic team that Spanked Woody’s Hawks went to the finals. When the Magic made all of those trades such as getting rid Petrius (who shuts down Joe), Vince Carter (who owned us his whole career) Lewis, Turkoglu and replaced them with guys like Richardson they were a better match up for us. LD is benefitting from what Woody had to build despite Dumb GM’s and stupid draft picks. We beat the Magic because of a man named Crawford hitting big shots who by the way flourished under Woody i.e. (6th man of the year). Woody had all but STOPPED Josh from shooting those jumpers, but under Larry Dufus Drew he can do whatever he wants. If Drew had to start with what Woody had when he first came here, he would not have made as long as Woody.
As a far as Woody switch defense everybody knows that he ran that style of defense to try and cover up for the DEFENSIVE FLOP which was Mike Bibby. Woody kept Josh dumb self under control. The only reason Drew is here is because he COMES CHEAP. The players RESPECT Woody, they only TOLERATE Drew..
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 17th, 2012
1:49 pm
Stern = Corporate Greed!
They don’t care about the individual players, just the cash cow machine. 66 games in a truncated schedule is just stupid! No time for practice nor recovery. Conversely, the playoffs have too many games in between, moment is never sustained for either team. Seems like one series takes two weeks. It’s all about the Benjamins baby!
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 17th, 2012
1:52 pm
* momentum …
Big Lou
April 17th, 2012
1:55 pm
“Horford is cleared for contact work within 24 hours of Zaza being pronouced out for most of rest of the season. Coincidence? Hmmm…
Surely somebody will concoct a semi-plausible conspiricy.”
I’ve always thought that all sports were just like wrestling, only not as obvious. You can tell by the refs which team is suppose to win, and who isn’t. After watching the Marlins and Braves(Baseball)/Kings and Lakers(Basketball)/Patriots(Won three in a row after 9/11, coincidence?) and Raiders(Football) series with the horrible calls, I learned that only the people behind the scenes determine who wins.
northcyde
April 17th, 2012
2:08 pm
LD is a better Xs and Os guy over Woody. Woody was a better personnel manager.
For all of those that love to laud Jamal Crawford, he had his career year while WOODY was the coach. Under Drew, he reverted back to his old self. Flip had a career year while WOODY was the coach. Marvin played much better while WOODY was the coach. Joe Johnson played better while WOODY was the coach. Josh Smith didn’t jack up a ton of jumpers when WOODY was the coach ( and if he did, he got called out on it ).
The only thing that stopped this team from making a better playoff showing in Woody’s final 2 years . . . was running into a red hot Cleveland team in the 2nd round ( that had won a league high 66 games that year, and we had both Horford and Marvin hurt ) . . . and not figuring out how to beat Orlando when Jason Collins was still a “cheeseburger” and out of shape as hell.
People need to keep it real. We beat a totally different Orlando team that had swept us the previous year
( 59 win team – 2nd best record in the league – and 4th best offensive rated team with 111.4 rating in 2009 – 10 . . . . . compared to a 52 win team – 8th best record in the league – and 14th best offensive rated team with a 107.7 rating in 2010 – 11 )
The Hawks play better on the road under Drew, but have laid complete eggs at home. And Drew has had more talented teams in the past 2 years than Woody ever had. Woody routinely had to play Mario West as our 4th guard off the bench, Mo Evans had to play a lot. Solomon Jones was the backup PF.
Guarantee you that if Woody had this squad, a guy like T-Mac wouldn’t be complaining about his playing time. Heck, seeing how Woody promoted both Flip and Jamal, T-Mac might be starting right now ( and it might be over Teague, unfortunately ). And Ivan is definitely the type of energetic big man that he would’ve loved. And he wouldn’t have sent Ivan home for lighting into the team.
If Drew doesn’t get a handle on who he needs to be playing, and who shouldn’t play on a nightly basis, we’re going to lose in the 1st round, no matter who we play. It’s been obvious for a while that guys like T-Mac, Ivan, and Marvin should be getting the bulk of the minutes off the bench, with Pargo/Green playing ( whomever is hot ).
Stop all of this trying to give Collins, or Vlad, or whomever else playing time. Go with a set rotation so that those guys can develop some cohesiveness.
northcyde
April 17th, 2012
2:10 pm
Damn. Wish I would’ve seen Mark’s post. Would’ve saved me a lot of typing.
northcyde
April 17th, 2012
2:21 pm
And as for Marvin . . what is the problem folks? He’s a role player, right? We know he’s not going to be a star, right? So what is the problem if a role player . .
- scores in double figures in 14 of his last 17 games
- is shooting 46% FG and averaging a little over 11 ppg in the past 2 months
- is playing better defense at both the SF and PF positions
- has become a much more consistent player coming off the bench
I know a select group of bloggers are going to rag on him just to be doing it, while being silent when he does play well . . but the dude is finally giving us a consistent effort on a nightly basis. So what is the problem?
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
2:23 pm
Big Lou – I was reading some book from 1922 or something several months ago. It was not long after the Black Sox scandal. And a section of the book was about the influence of organized crime and gambling on Baseball. It was a perspective I had never heard before, but it sounded very much like what you just said. I’ve heard the same about pro football also.
About the Hawks – I guess I have the notorious loser’s mentality mentioned by Dawgnole and those guys, but right now I’m just enjoying the ride.
I’m glad Ivan is bustin’ out. I thought we might have a sleeper after I looked up his bio when he was invited to summer camp. I’m enjoyin’ that.
Glad Teague beasted last nite. He’s had a few really good games recently, peppered with some really ineffectual games. But when he’s switched on, he’s as athletic at PG as any I see in the NBA.
Glad to hear about Al. Hope’s he back somewhere in the playoffs, at either PF or C. A frontline of Ivan, Al, and Josh wouldn’t make me mad one bit. Neither would ZaZa, Ivan, and Josh, with Al as first big off the bench.
I hate and despise losing. But until, if and when we get bounced from the playoffs, I’m just enjoying the ride.
Hoping for a Championship. But I’m more realistic than that.
The only miniscule sliver of hope I’ve got is all these 30+ somethings on the squad thinking this is their last, best shot at a Championship, and playing like crazy in the playoffs. I firmly believe that’s what happened to the Mavs last season. Kidd, Jet, Dirk, Marion and the boys basically said last shot, let’s do this thing. Maybe JJ, TMac, Green, Pargo, and the rest of the Hawks say the same and go for broke this postseason.
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
2:28 pm
Right this second, the Pacers have become red hot – I’m not sure I want them instead of Boston. Just bring on whoever, and let’s get it on and do this thing! Give us Miami or the Bulls in Round 1 – I don’t care. Just get in there and fight like a bunch of men should!
Effort and intensity many times win the day. Gotta have talent and make smart decisions also.
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
2:30 pm
As daddy used to say – The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
Seems like Goliath learned that in the Bible.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 17th, 2012
2:35 pm
Delegate Authority!
“LD is a better Xs and Os guy over Woody. Woody was a better personnel manager.” -nortycyde-
________
Great observation here, then IF Mr. Woodson was smart, he would have used Drew to keep his job here.
briggy
April 17th, 2012
2:35 pm
question for hawks fans. do u think this hawks team is a win now team?by that i mean what type of team in reltions to the other teams in the east/league?
r they a contender such as bulls/heat/celtics or more of the pacers/orlando/philly or kncks\bucks level?
also would u consider hawks contender the next 3 years or just a middle of the road team?
Astro Joe
April 17th, 2012
2:38 pm
northcyde, if Woody had TMac, TMac may have well been in a permanent back-sling at Grady.
IMO, LD gets crazy credit for beating a watered down Magic team and taking a Bulls squad that previously had not gotten passed the 1st round to 6 games. I think they are essentially on par with each other. If there are 10 ways to evaluate coaches, they clearly have different strengths, but their overall rating is eqaul (IMO). The difference is that LD gets as many wins for less salary, so he is clearly the better value.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
2:44 pm
“if LD is better than Woody. And neither are above average coaches. Yet both have reached the 2nd round of playoffs with THIS CORE, wouldn’t we have to say that the CORE is underrated (Joe, Josh and Al)?”
Joe and Al are multiple-time All Stars and Al made an All NBA team. They are properly rated. Josh is underrated because he hasn’t made an All Star game.
Being underrated, though, doesn’t mean they have any shot at winning a title. This is a core with a ceiling of making the ECF and giving Miami a run for its money. With a good coach, they would reach that ceiling. Even with Popovich, though, they won’t get farther than that. Yet, the owners and management are happy with this. Therefore, criticism is warranted of both the coach (who keeps this core from going as far as it can) and the management (who is satisfied with a core that can’t win a title).
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
2:48 pm
My preferred path moving forward with this team.
This off season trade JJ for any draft pick you can in the 1st round. This is supposedly the biggest infusion of talent into the NBA in 10 years or whatever, because so many kids stayed in last season because of the lockout.
If you can’t get a 1st rounder for JJ because of the cap, trade him for shorter contracts. Get Rodney Stuckey and Ben Gordon for all I care. At least the cap hit is for the next 2 years and not the next 4.
But preferably a 1st pick. The best you can.
Then build around Josh, Al, ZaZa, Ivan, and Teague. Try Josh at the SF until the trade deadline. If he can’t play SF, trade Al. Again, get the best young player(s) draft pick(s) you can for him, and re-sign Josh long term. Give him max money if needed, or close to it, he’ll only be 28 when the contract starts, and the ‘tract will only be for 5 years not 6 because of the new CBA.
Then build around Josh, and maybe Teague, unless you get a stud PG in 1 of these trades or drafts.
But if Josh works at SF, build around he and Al, with ZaZa, Ivan and Teague as secondary pieces.
And if Josh still wants to be traded, after you’ve shown he’s the man, trade him for the best young pieces possible or draft picks, and build around Al, Ivan, ZaZa, and Teague, and all the young pieces you’ve acquired trading Josh and Joe.
I like JJ alot. But I’ve come to the conclusion that he is the biggest hinderance to the long term success of this team because of his contract and his declining skills because of age.
Done right, we don’t have to rebuild going forward. We can reload. But this off season is the time to trade JJ. Still only 31 for next season, and his salary under 20 mill. After that, he’ll be almost impossible to unload, unless you get garbage back for him..
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
2:50 pm
“please don’t count Teague rookie year. He needed to sit the bench that year to learn. ”
No he didn’t. Look at his game log. He played 3 solid games in December of his rookie year and then was never heard from again. He got to start in the final game of the season — albeit against a team resting its starters — and put up an All Star worthy line. Should he have been starting from day one? Maybe, maybe not, but he was EASILY good enough to play 20 minutes a game. Woody didn’t play him because Woody is too incompetent to develop players and incorporate them into a scheme.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
2:56 pm
“We beat a totally different Orlando team that had swept us the previous year”
The impact of that trade is overrated at least as it relates to the Hawks. The Hawks lost in 2010 because they kept doubling Dwight, leaving 3 point shooters wide open, and never adjusted. They won in 2011 because they single-covered Dwight and didn’t let any of Orlando’s shooters get going.
Orlando’s scheme didn’t change from 2010 to 2011. They just had a different group of shooters stationed around Dwight waiting to get open looks and knock them down. The difference is that the Hawks had a scheme that shut them down and didn’t let them get going.
And for all the talk of Pietrus being some big Joe-stopper who killed the Hawks’ offense, it’s not like Joe had a particularly efficient series against Orlando last year with no Pietrus. He shot over 40% in exactly one game out of six in the series.
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
3:07 pm
Hawks fans will believe this, but this is our best run since 93-99. We went to the playoffs 7 straight years, had 4 EC Semi appearance’s, and had the best record in the East in 93-94, and the 2nd best in the NBA that season behind Houston I believe.
The Atlanta Hawks have never won a playoff series in 4 consecutive years. It would be nice to put an end to that streak.
And yes Dawgnole, it would be nice to win a Championship! Go Hawks!!
briggy
April 17th, 2012
3:08 pm
i think woody prefers veterens over youth but i think ld is the same way. teague played out of circumstance more than anything else. i look at woody as more of a disciplinarion and ld more as a person who probably better relates to personalities like someone running a daycare.
drmaryb,
i agree with u with stern but players wanted to play that is why they signed the cba agreement.
northcyde
April 17th, 2012
3:09 pm
Player Efficiency normally correlates with the amount of minutes you play on the court, which gives you a chance to put up more stats.
When you compare efficiency rates within each position, and compare them to the amount of minutes they’re playing, it gives you an indication on who is possibly playing better than the average person receiving those particular minutes.
It can also do the opposite. It can give you an indication on who is playing below what they should be playing at that position, for the minutes they’re receiving.
The following comparisons for Hawks players do NOT indicate who is better than the other on the team. But it does compare them to those at their respective positions across the league. If you really watch the entire league, the following shouldn’t surprise anybody.
From hoopsstats.com
Teague: 21st in efficiency at PG . . . 15th in minutes . . . ( -6 )
Hinrich: 45th in efficiency at PG . . . 48th in minutes . . . ( +3 )
Johnson: 4th in efficiency at SG . . . 2nd in minutes . . . ( -2 )
Smith: 6th in efficiency at PF . . . 6th in minutes . . . ( even )
Zaza: 23rd in efficiency at C . . . 17th in minutes . . . ( -6 )
BENCH
Marvin: 17th in efficiency at SF . . . 29th in minutes . . . ( +12 )
Ivan: 53rd in efficiency at PF . . . 64th in minutes . . . ( +11 )
T-Mac: 50th in efficiency at SF . . . 59th in minutes . . . ( +9 )
Pargo: 59th in efficiency at PG . . . 73rd in minutes . . . ( +14 )
Green: 58th in efficiency at SG . . . 64th in minutes . . . ( +6 )
Vlad: 63rd in efficiency at PF . . . 64th in minutes . . . ( +1 )
Dampier: 92nd in efficiency at C . . . 90th in minutes . . . ( -2 )
Collins: 97th in efficiency at C . . . 80th in minutes . . . ( – 17 )
briggy
April 17th, 2012
3:10 pm
najeh, i agree this team at best with a better coach is an ecf team possibly finals team
briggy
April 17th, 2012
3:12 pm
also agree with northclyde the sooner most realize marvin is a role player who was drafted too high people will be ok with his outputs as far as points rebounds,etc
Rod from College Park
April 17th, 2012
3:13 pm
“We beat the Magic because of a man named Crawford hitting big shots who by the way flourished under Woody i.e. (6th man of the year).”
Cosign
“And for all the talk of Pietrus being some big Joe-stopper who killed the Hawks’ offense, it’s not like Joe had a particularly efficient series against Orlando last year with no Pietrus. He shot over 40% in exactly one game out of six in the series.”
More reason to believe that Crawford was the reason we won the series, along with not switching.
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
3:15 pm
This is the 1st year Josh has shown the consistency to be the guy to actually build around. I hope the Hawks brass will do it.
But if Josh insists on leaving this dysfunctional, lawsuit bound, cash strapped, lying ownership group behind, and I couldn’t blame him if he did, it’s off to plan B.
High-sider
April 17th, 2012
3:20 pm
And y’all thought Joe Johnson and [the] other Hawks’ players had problems and issues with “trickin.”
http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-secret-bragged-protecting-obama-while-partying-colombian-110143053–abc-news-politics.html
High-sider
April 17th, 2012
3:22 pm
^should be “trickin’.”
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
3:23 pm
I predicted 48 – 38 before the season began. Gonna be close. I tell you, the last few games will probably be decided by who has a playoff spot/homecourt clinched, and who doesn’t. Boston, Clips, Mavs, Knicks, all could be playing for their lives, or coasting depending on the aforementioned circumstances.
The Knicks probably play all out for sure. And if Boston wants Homecourt for at least 1 series, they probably do also. The Mavs, who knows. The Clips may be already clinched HC for the 1st round and resting their guys.
Gonna be interesting.
briggy
April 17th, 2012
3:26 pm
steve w i was thinking this hawks should really look to just build around one star player with some good pieces around that player. joe johnson is past his prime and i like your ideas in a previous post but i am not sure u can build around smith. look at that celtics game in boston celtics are fine with joshshooting jumpers. he is better at it but still not consistent enough and he doesnt have a good dribble and not a great post player
Rod from College Park
April 17th, 2012
3:34 pm
also agree with northclyde the sooner most realize marvin is a role player who was drafted too high people will be ok with his outputs as far as points rebounds,etc
Role players don’t make 8 mil per year, they make the vet minimum, or a couple of million per year. Role players also don’t get drafted #2 in the draft, and get resigned for a 5 year deal with a player option for the sixth year. Marvin should not be a role player, and should never be considered one while he is a member of the Hawks.
Marvin Williams Stats against Eastern conference playoff teams 2012:
7.3ppg, 35.5%FG, 23%3point
Actually he is still not even a good role player if he can’t step up against good teams.
jay
April 17th, 2012
3:37 pm
Marvin being a role player is A OK with me, but he isn’t paid like a role player which is NOT ok. At the moment he is being outplayed by a late 20’s rookie.
As for Woody being such a good coach, it’s very interesting to me that he’s sat for the last two years with barely a mention of interest with all the coaching changes that have happened. The only job he could snag was taking over as an interim coach. He had ZERO propencity to ADJUST his philosiphy. He took the team from pups to men, but they hit a ceiling with him.
northcyde
April 17th, 2012
3:38 pm
And in case some of you think those efficiency vs minutes comparisons were bogus, here are some more
Kenneth Faried: 23rd in efficiency at PF . . . 42nd in minutes ( +19 )
Steve Nash: 5th in efficiency at PG . . . 19th in minutes ( +14 )
Antwan Jamison: 22nd in efficiency at PF . . . 9th in minutes . . . ( -14 )
Hedo Turkoglu: 24th in efficiency at SF . . . 13th in minutes . . . ( -11 )
Astro Joe
April 17th, 2012
3:41 pm
Orlando was the #2 seed that year and since have been #4 and likely #6. Yeah, I think they have been going in the wrong direction (for whatever reason) since that frightful playoff series.
northcyde
April 17th, 2012
3:46 pm
Pietrus and Barnes wasn’t the difference in the 2010 series when it came to JJ?
JJ didn’t shoot over 37% in ANY game that series. He was pretty much shut down, along with him not being able to buy an open 3 point shot to save his life ( 3 – 17 from three in that series )
Compare that to 2011:
- JJ has a MONSTER Game 1 that we won
- scored 20 or more in 4 of the 6 games . . compared to zero the previous year
- shot below 40% in only 2 of the games.
- only had one horrific game
JJ last year vs Orlando was far and away better than JJ vs Orlando in 2010
northcyde
April 17th, 2012
3:53 pm
Jay . . well you’ll just have to get over that man. It’s not Marvin’s fault that the ASG overpaid that dude. They felt that they needed to keep Marvin in the fold, so they gave him an inflated contracted ( which looked to be a pretty fair contract at the time ).
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 17th, 2012
3:55 pm
Rooks!
“i think woody prefers veterens over youth but i think ld is the same way. ” -briggy-
__________
So, did Lenny Wilkens and all other successful established NBA coaches. Typically, only lottery picks on bad teams start out as starters.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
4:04 pm
2009-10 Hawks-Magic series
Offensive rating
Game 1: Magic 124.7, Hawks 77.7
Game 2: Magic 138.5, Hawks 121.2
Game 3: Magic 127.7, Hawks 91.2
Game 4: Magic 117.0, Hawks 100.3
2010-11 Hawks-Magic series
Offensive rating
Game 1: Magic 104.4, Hawks 115.6
Game 2: Magic 102.1, Hawks 95.2
Game 3: Magic 103.8, Hawks 108.7
Game 4: Magic 93.4, Hawks 96.7
Game 5: Magic 117.0, Hawks 88.0
Game 6: Magic 102.1, Hawks 105.9
The point of all that is, while the Hawks were somewhat better offensively against Orlando last year as opposed to 2 years ago, the difference between the two years begins and ends with the Hawks’ defense. The Hawks had no answers for Orlando two years ago, and kept Orlando under control last year, pulling out a series win despite not being that impressive offensively. And that defensive difference is almost entirely attributable to LD’s scheme change.
briggy
April 17th, 2012
4:22 pm
drmaryb,
true but if the starter ie bibby isnt cutting it then teague shouldve played
briggy
April 17th, 2012
4:23 pm
Enter your comments here
briggy
April 17th, 2012
4:25 pm
najeh, drmaryb, northclyde, steve w etc what moves would u do to make this hawks team better cause hawks have been stuck for years between a rock and a hard place
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
4:25 pm
Average Hawks offensive rating in the ‘09-’10 series: 97.6
Average Hawks offensive rating in the ‘10-’11 series: 101.7
Average Magic offensive rating in the ‘09-’10 series: 127.0
Average Magic offensive rating in the ‘10-’11 series: 103.8
Whatever personnel changes the Magic made, combined with whatever offensive scheme changes the Hawks made, resulted in 4 points per 100 possessions more for the Hawks. Not an insignificant improvement, but nowhere close to the 23 fewer points per possession the Hawks allowed on D.
doc
April 17th, 2012
4:43 pm
if al gets back on the court for meaningful minutes no one should ever doubt the size of his nads. for sure no one of the inquiring mind has to doubt the size of his camel toe of his partner.
stevew 38-28? not 48-38 i presume. i maxed them out at 36 so i might miss by a few. they sould get some cudos with the injuries and improved rosters in the east.
i hate the idea of boston fans in the phil, sold out, which it wouldnt be for the pacers. it makes it hard to be either a hawks player or a fan. almost like a high school intense rivalry at a neutral site.
DawgNole
April 17th, 2012
5:14 pm
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
2:28 pm
Right this second, the Pacers have become red hot – I’m not sure I want them instead of Boston. Just bring on whoever, and let’s get it on and do this thing! Give us Miami or the Bulls in Round 1 – I don’t care. Just get in there and fight like a bunch of men should!
_____________________
Don’t always agree with you, SW, but you’re right on the money here. As I wrote earlier this week, I could care less WHO we play in the postseason, I just want to WIN in the postseason. All these “fans” pulling for the Hawks to lose for playoff seeding can’t be true fans. WIN–especially in the playoffs–and everything else will take care of itself.
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
5:20 pm
Doc – Haha – yes, 38-28 was my prediction.
DawgNole
April 17th, 2012
5:24 pm
Section 303
April 17th, 2012
9:54 am
They cannot throw away the Detroit game tomorrown night. Pistons are a lot like the Raptors. Teams that are out of it, but not playing like they are out of it. Pistons have been playing tough lately.
______________________
That’s a legitimate concern (looking past Detroit), with Boston looming Friday.
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
5:26 pm
Boston and Orlando play each other tomorrow nite, so if we take care of business at H against the Pistons, we get ahead of somebody.
All Road games are over. The Hawks close on a 5 game homestand. Win them all, and we almost control our own destiny. Only Boston winning out would give them a H court advantage on the Hawks.
prison mike
April 17th, 2012
5:27 pm
I can’t but wonder if Al has an underdeveloped chicken arm. With that I wouldn’t be surprised if he got 20 mpg the last 2 regular season games.
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
5:29 pm
I think the psychological boost of getting Al back would be enormous for the Hawks. Just listening to JJ’s comments the past month has shown me that is on his mind. I think they feel they can compete with anyone if Al’s healthy. Look how they started the season playing Miami and Chicago with Al healthy.
DawgNole
April 17th, 2012
5:30 pm
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
3:07 pm
The Atlanta Hawks have never won a playoff series in 4 consecutive years. It would be nice to put an end to that streak.
And yes Dawgnole, it would be nice to win a Championship! Go Hawks!!
_____________________
A championship obviously is WAY overdue, but even if they do no more than show progress in this their 45th year (i.e., making it past Round 2), it would at least indicate they’re heading in the right direction. Year after year of the same old crap is what has long since gotten old.
DawgNole
April 17th, 2012
5:32 pm
Rev in Tampa
April 17th, 2012
10:53 am
The Hawks quit on Woody resulting in one of the most embarrassing collapses in all of professional sports (rivaled only by the Braves/Red Sox last season). I bet several on the blog can easily recall from memory the point total that the Magic beat the Hawks by in the 2010 playoffs.
A big part of coaching is motivating the players. Larry Drew has the secret button that he presses to make this team go. (Apparently he forgot to press it Sunday night.)
That’s as far as I am able to go in giving Drew credit. Just about everything else he does befuddles me. But that one element is HUGE in making this mentally dysfunctional team “go”.
And, as I have pointed out before, MC called out Drew for not playing Teague last year. MC was relentless and bold, yet classy. It made Drew look foolish. But Drew did not change his stubborn ways until forced to by Hinrich’s injury.
So, I give Drew credit for moving the Hawks past the PLATEAU that Woody reached, but that’s about it.
_____________________
An accurate summation, IMO.
DawgNole
April 17th, 2012
5:36 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
12:09 pm
You are correct that he is much better than Woody, but that is a little like saying Bridget The Midget is taller than Mini-Me.
______________________
Which is why we still haven’t made it past Round 2.
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
5:39 pm
The playoffs begin April 28th, so Al has 11 days to get in game shape. Hmmm, that’s more than I thought, but still not quite enough time.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him play that last game against the Mavs maybe – 9 days away.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 17th, 2012
5:41 pm
“i hate the idea of boston fans in the phil, sold out, which it wouldnt be for the pacers. it makes it hard to be either a hawks player or a fan. almost like a high school intense rivalry at a neutral site.”
The last time the Celtics played playoff games in Philips Arena, they worked out pretty well for the Hawks, even with all the Celtics fans in the house. Those crowds were electric. Hawks just gotta take care of business and the fans will get on their side.
Bravesfan79
April 17th, 2012
5:52 pm
Big Lou: Totally agree with what u said about the conspiracy theories, esp the Kings/ Lakers… And i think even Jazz / Bulls and Lakers/ 76ers series. No one ever gives Mutombo enough credit for leading that team defensively into the playoffs, but dude was a Beast! If not for Shaq pushing him all over the place without a foul ever being called, they might of taken it.
briggy
April 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
at this point doesnt matter who hawks play to me although i think if hawks play celtics the attendance by hawks fans will be better than i they play indiana. hawks celtics is the sexier mattchup than hawks pacers even if hawks dont have homecourt against celtics
Mike
April 17th, 2012
6:00 pm
This playoffs is going to be the most important in Atlanta Hawks history, because if this team doesnt get passed the first or atleast win a couple of game in the second. Then the core is going to be dismantle, Hawks dont have much money to pay for three large contacts with Josh, AL, JJ, plus Zaza iS unrestricted and Teague is restricted then you have to pay for Pargo, Ivan and others. I hope they can get to ECF or better because if it doesnt. You going to see a wholesale changes.
kingd92
April 17th, 2012
6:01 pm
Can we please start Tmac over Kirk for the playoffs! Btw Al cleared for contact!
Playoff lineup:
Pg- Teague (6′2”)
Sg/sf- Tmac (6′8”)
Sg/sf- JJ (6′7″)
Pf- Smoove (6′9”)
C- Al/zaza (6′11″), if slow recovery- Ivan (6′8″ plays like 6′11″)
That’s a lot of length out there. I like to see the likes of bradley, korver, rip and ray allen trying to guard t-mac in the low post. Double teams would be inevitable leading to open buckets.
kingd92
April 17th, 2012
6:04 pm
Bench:
pg- Pargo
sg- kirk/willie
sf- marvin
pf- Ivan
c- Zaza
pf/c- rotation depends on the injury situation. With the upcoming centers being Garnett and Noah there is no need for Twin or Damp to see the court. Oh and Rad in spot minutes.
prison mike
April 17th, 2012
6:22 pm
“With the upcoming centers being Garnett and Noah”
You are way off base. We have a pretty difficult last 5 games. We could easily face the Pacers in the first round which I don’t prefer because they are deep.
I like the Celtics matchup more than most. Games are going to be fast and furious and their bench would be worst than ours.
High-sider
April 17th, 2012
6:30 pm
^should be …In the next season [2010-2011*], LD was primarily hired because he supposedly impressed Hawks’ management with his presentation…”
doc
April 17th, 2012
6:34 pm
yes najeh, was there. it would be intense for sure looking back only a couple of weeks ago at what went donw. i think the fan base has actually gone down since then though.
kingd92
April 17th, 2012
6:35 pm
@ Prison mike:
Orlando last five games (no Dwight): @Bos (L) @Utah @Den (1-1 versus Den/Ut) Char (W) @ Mem (L)
Orlando will most likely go 2-3 in their last 5. Since we own the tiebreaker we only have to win two more to stay at the 5 seed. I know our schedule is tough but i think we can muster at least two wins. The first being against Det and the second against either Bos or NY. So most likely we will be playing Bos and then Chi (if we win). So I fail to see how: “With the upcoming centers being Garnett and Noah” is way off base. Please explain.
kingd92
April 17th, 2012
6:37 pm
@ prison mike
Plus I agree with you about the Celtics as I like the match up as well. It all rests on if Teague can man up and play with Rondo.
doc
April 17th, 2012
6:38 pm
the good thing about playing ivan more is he will not be intimidated and he is only getting better. he is our brandon bass finally though he might be better. his bulk and quickness will wear folks down too. i love to watch how he takes space and his quick feet getting under the opponent.
please let twin stay on the bench and only be seen when their second line players are in.
doc
April 17th, 2012
6:42 pm
the schedule suggests the only way we can lay down enough to get to six is to start twin and erik at point and shooting guard respectively.
O'brien
April 17th, 2012
7:38 pm
“please don’t count Teague rookie year. He needed to sit the bench that year to learn. ”.
From the nytimes;
Teague, who was selected 19th over all in the 2009 N.B.A. draft, may be in his third season, but he is essentially a rookie. He averaged about 10 minutes a game, starting three of them, in the 2009-10 season, Mike Woodson’s final year as Atlanta’s head coach. “My rookie year, Coach Woodson told me I wasn’t going to play, straight up,” Teague said. “That was just how he worked. So I respected that.”.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/sports/basketball/next-up-for-jeremy-lin-hawks-emerging-point-guard.html/
Hmm. That’s just how he worked. Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Marvin etc got PT early on, but who else would have played? For some reason, Woody fell in love with Bibby, and LD fell in love with Jamal, both at the expense of Jeff.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 17th, 2012
7:40 pm
FIRE MIKE WOODSON
pointguardslim
April 17th, 2012
7:43 pm
Idiotic talking about McGrady starting and Avery Bradley vs McGrady.
If all our bigs are healthy we have to play a playoff style lineup
Celtics; 76ers ; Bulls ; Heat ; NY lineup:
Pg- Teague / Pargo/ Hinrich
Sg- Johnson / Green / Hinrich
sf- Smith / Tracy McGrady
Pf- Ivan / Marvin Williams
C- zaza/ Al Horford / Dampier+Collins
if Carmelo is going to play the 4, then we can go with the normal lineup. Also watch out for Indiana.
For the uneducated Hawks (McGrady/Marvin/Hinrich) fanatics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Buy0P4e7×3w
We would never have won a playoff game last year without playing a normal NBA sized lineup. Outside of the Heat; Josh Smith and Joe Johnson at the wings is too versatile to stop.
briggy
April 17th, 2012
8:06 pm
rip dwayne shinkus nba player died from leukemia 43
Joe D
April 17th, 2012
8:10 pm
Hopefully, Zaza will be back before the end of the season. Tmac should either become the starter at SF or the first forward out the bench during playoffs. Anything can happen during the playoffs: injuries, players choking, and sometimes a Star is born!
Now for next year, Marvin has to go; his salary determines if Josh, Zaza, and Ivan can be resigned! Now, that is clear that the starting lineup should be: Zaza, Al, Josh, JJ, and Teague. This lIneup would have the best chance to challenge for the ECF as well as Final!
Trade Marvin any way possible!
salary determines
BIG DOG
April 17th, 2012
8:43 pm
pointguardslim – You are 100percent right the Hawks are not going any where unless they starte playing the big line up, people are hypnotize by there record, but looking at this team they are not a good against team with winning record.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
BIG DOG
April 17th, 2012
8:48 pm
Teague, Joe, Josh, Ivan, Collins
Hinrich or Pargo, Green, Tmac, Marvin, Dampier
You might have a chance with this line up instead of the smallish lineup, because playoffs games are played half court with top notch defense.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Rev in Tampa
April 17th, 2012
8:57 pm
Woody has NYK playing “good”. 40-26 over Boston in the 2nd. Indy & Philly tied at the end of 3
BIG DOG
April 17th, 2012
8:59 pm
Teague vs Rondo edge Rondo
Joe vs Allen edge Joe
Josh vs Pierce edge Josh
Ivan vs Bass toss up
Collins vs Garnett edge Garnett
I would have Ivan guarding Garnett the hole series.
Hawks would win this series from defense, defense, defense.
Hawks wins 4 – 2
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Melvin
April 17th, 2012
9:15 pm
Woody is all smiles in the 1st half of the Celtics game tonight. I hope the Hawks beat the eyebrows off his face on Sunday…
Melvin
April 17th, 2012
9:43 pm
Look who NBADraft has going to the Hawks in the upcoming draft…
Terrence Jones
NBA Comparison: Marvin Williams
Strengths: Southpaw combination forward possessing a multi-faceted set of skills … Not biased against any particular area of the court – gets his points from a variety of avenues (16 ppg) … He’s maintained ball handling aptitude and court craft cultivated as a freshman PG in high school … Dynamic in the face up game with excellent creativity off the bounce, breakdown ability and a quick first step … Favors his left hand dramatically, but right side is not a detriment and continues to improve … When given time, can extend his range beyond the college three line (33%) … Utilizes the pump fake to great effect … Forced into the post out of necessity for UK, he’s done an admirable job playing out of his comfort zone … Displays good patience down low, with surprisingly good footwork and ability to finish over either shoulder … Makes prudent decisions passing out of double teams (1.6 ast) … Extremely well put together frame for a 19-year old with broad, burly shoulders … His wingspan is outrageous allowing him to rebound out of his area (8.7 reb), block shots at their apex (1.9 blk) and get his hands into passing lanes (1.1 stl) … Length, lateral mobility and quickness off the deck make him a versatile force on the defensive end and on both backboards … Instant fast break potential with his ability to handle and push the rock in transition …
Weaknesses: Is he a tweener or a mismatch? Deliberate jump shot and tendency to “push” the release (failure to follow through) limit his effectiveness on the perimeter … Mechanics on his shot are unorthodox, does not get his elbow under the ball when he shoots … His mid-range game currently consists of unorthodox push shots and floaters … Development of jumper off the dribble would take his offensive stock to another level … Doesn’t play with a consistent mean streak on the interior, often double clutching and going the “clever” route rather than playing physical and finishing with authority … His athleticism shines when presented with room to operate, but his explosiveness is inhibited in confined areas and when contacted … Solid but not overwhelming foot speed and vertical leap … His movements appear restricted, lacking fluidity with an overall awkward gait … Needs to be more efficient with his shot selection (12 attempts, 44%) … Critical that he find the balance between playing within himself and not conjuring up a disappearing act … Mental lapses, bad body language, dips in concentration and loss of confidence are not foreign territory for Jones … Plays with passion, but needs to remain on an even emotional plain throughout the game … Eliminate the flash and make the simple play- can be careless at times (2 to).
Grandad
April 17th, 2012
9:54 pm
SteveW
” This is supposedly the biggest infusion of talent
into the NBA in 10 years ”
Another reason Sund or ASG should be fired / run out of town !
We had two 2nd round picks
in a yr when 2nd round picks are the most valuable !
Two names for the 2nd round:
*Henry Sims – Georgetown
*Kevin Murphy Tn Tech
The Portsmouth Invitational just finished and these two young men
really improved their draft status.
Our Hawks could use either one.
My scouting reports to come.
Both will be successful & both will be taken in the 2nd round.
Thanks ASG / Sund !
We sold someone *[maybe one of the aforementioned kids]
to buy some toilet paper.
Grandad
April 17th, 2012
9:56 pm
* We had two 2nd round picks
in a yr when 2nd round picks are the most valuable !
** AND … we SOLD one of them ! ! !
High-sider
April 17th, 2012
10:03 pm
Correction: “On the other [hand*], Al Horford’s and Josh Smith’s scoring averages increased but Josh Smith was the one who reverted back to taking ill-advised, deep perimeter jumpers.”
[I hate when I make "writing" mistakes.]
Mark Question
April 17th, 2012
10:06 pm
Al is a scrubb with no talent just a press favorite. He is trade bait and should be a bench player.
This is Josh’s team and Al has to go.
Mark Question
April 17th, 2012
10:10 pm
Josh is an all around player and the main reason the hawks are a good team.
Package Al and Teague and go after a couple of players to compliment Josh JJ and Zaza. the real back bone of this team.
Grandad
April 17th, 2012
10:13 pm
Henry Sims;
* true 6-10, in bare feet, at least 6-11 wi shoes; 7-4 wing-span; 265;
* very smart, High B-ball IQ; Great Passer (typical G-town center):
[Hibbert / Monroe] … a true Center / not a tweener
Kevin Murphy:
6-7; [2] guard; led NCAA in scoring; had a 50 pt game;
I watched this kid shoot and he has a picture perfect shot.
” a pure shooter ” / literally perfect shooting mechanics
* note – from Creekside HS – right here in our backyard.
_____________________________________________
** either or of these kids would be a tremendous choice
with our 2nd pick.
Murphy … may be one of those kids who somehow
work their way to the 1st round.
____________________________________________
*** Turns out I coached against K. Murphy
although at the time I never realized how good he would become.
Creekside HS has put out some really good athletes
over the last several yrs both fb & Bb.
Mark Question
April 17th, 2012
10:14 pm
What a lie and a liar. Al horford average be for the injury was12.4 and 8 rebounds almost identical to his career average. Its Josh who has taken his game to the higher level and is the teams scoring leader and high assists rebounds producer every night. Get lost horford liars.
Big Lou
April 17th, 2012
10:15 pm
“This playoffs is going to be the most important in Atlanta Hawks history, because if this team doesnt get passed the first or atleast win a couple of game in the second.”
Um… they won two games against the Bulls last year in the second round, and almost beat them in game five…
Mark Question
April 17th, 2012
10:17 pm
starting lineup Next year?
Zaza
Josh
JJ
Hinrich
Teague
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
10:17 pm
Grandad – I was perplexed at that as well. I know ASG needed the money because of Luxury Tax and all. But even if we could have packaged our #44 and #53 for say a #38 pick, or traded one or both of our 2nd picks to move up a couple or few notches in the 1st round to take a player we liked a little better, I think we would have come out ahead in the long run.
The team would be better, would draw more, and hence make more money over the life of the pick(s) contract(s) than the mill or two they made from selling the pick. Very short term thinking.
Or even as you said, stay put and draft well – it does seem like 1-50 in this years draft is solid – unlike last years. Still some good players from last year however – Shumpert (we could’ve had him!) Faried, Norris Cole, Harrelson and more – all selected way after the lottery, and some even in the 2nd round.
But last years draft was still pretty sad really.
Mark Question
April 17th, 2012
10:18 pm
Al horford is an all nba all star….
My pet pig wears lipstick
Mark Question
April 17th, 2012
10:21 pm
“On the other [hand*], Al Horford’s scoring averages increased ”
Roll it up home boy…
12pts, 8 rbs
Grandad
April 17th, 2012
10:23 pm
Next yr:
We need to make a run at Omer Asik.
Unrestricted Free Agent
26 yrs old
I would say make him an offer he cannot refuse.
He`s from Turkey;
geographically a neighbor to Zaza … let Zaza recruit.
I do not care what the $ restraints are.
Add / subtract / cut / nip / tuck / amnesty / practice abstinence …
Whatever ….. just go get this kid !
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
10:23 pm
PS – I’ve been impressed with Shump’s play with the Knicks this season. He’s really come thru when they had some injuries and things. He went 17, and our draft spot was 18 – we coulda traded up a spot and snagged him if not for the Jordan Crawford/Hinrich trade.
And Faried is a beast. Where was he drafted, 22nd or something?
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
10:31 pm
Knicks are starting to look like they’re going to beat the Celts tonite. Good for us.
Indy is like 10-1 in their last 11 games. Sure you want to play them? And those guys are healthy also. Top 8 or 9 have missed almost 0 games with injury. Not alot of minutes played also – deep team.
Beware the Pistons – They were beating the Cavs by 50 going into the 4th quarter. That’s Fifty – not a misprint.
Grandad
April 17th, 2012
10:32 pm
*He`s from Turkey;
geographically a neighbor to Zaza … let Zaza recruit.
*He`s from Turkey;
geographically a neighbor to [Zaza's / Georgia] … let Zaza recruit.
High-sider
April 17th, 2012
10:40 pm
Mark Question
April 17th, 2012
10:21 pm
“On the other [hand*], Al Horford’s scoring averages increased ”
Roll it up home boy…
12pts, 8 rbs
——————————————-
I was referring to Al Horford’s [regular season] scoring averages of 2009-2010 [14.2ppg] and 2010-2011 [15.3ppg].
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01.html
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
10:55 pm
Josh has shown me enough this season, ill advised J’s and all, that he needs to be the guy we build around. But what if he refuses to budge from his trade request? You’ve gotta get something for him.
I could see the Hawks trading Josh for Rondo, and making Teague into Jet, just to save on salary. Rondo’s is signed for 3 more years for 36 mill. And he’ll make 2.2 mill less than Josh will make next season.
The Celtics blogs and beat writers say that Doc and Danny want to rebuild around Josh. That let’s me know they think he’s pretty good.
Ditch JJ and Marvin if possible for some good young talent, and rebuild around Josh and Al and then Ivan, Teague, and ZaZa. If Al can’t play C, and Josh can’t play SF, trade Al for more young talent.
JJ may bring you some valuable pieces for someone who wants to win a Championship now – and we can reload instead of rebuild. Then we can play for a Championship.
I doubt ASG will ever make a big, bold move. When they do, it usually turns out to be Shareef (who was pretty good) for Pau Gasol or something. I know that was before ASG’s tenure – but still….
Slimjr
April 17th, 2012
10:56 pm
Ra’mon
April 17th, 2012
12:28 pm
“Dawg, That is incorrect. If you watch the Knicks play, they are actually running OFFENSIVE PLAYS which is different than when Woody was here. So he has improved.”
Right on Ra’mon! Woody is improving..
He’s 7-4 against the winners..LD, a sorry 11-20(per Sautee) lol!
14-5 CWebb! Improving indeed..
Carmelo with a triple double 35 pts, 12 rbs, 10 dimes!
ZaZa will be missed for sure. How much does Robotus have in the tank after rehab? Will not be long now to find out?
SteveW
April 17th, 2012
11:02 pm
Grandad – A Frontcourt of
Asik/ZaZa
Al/Ivan
Josh/Marvin
Would be a formidable Frontcourt. No way we do that unless JJ is gone, or unless the team is sold to Bill Gates or something.
EmirS.
April 18th, 2012
1:12 am
Anyone else think that the Sixers match up well, if not better,with the Bulls? And poor Milwaukee, they had a wonderful chance to get the number 8th spot, I think they’re out of it.
So far we hold a better record then the Celtics. But I would rather let the Magic have them in the first round. I wouldn’t mind slipping into the 6th spot to take on the Pacers. I feel like they’re do for a slide!
Mark Question
April 18th, 2012
1:13 am
yeah I was going to pick out Jon Koncak 2 best years and kind of market it as him being star material, but his career is what it is.
If we take every players 2 best years where they and ignore the 5 bad years we can make it seem like they are something.
14 and 16 pts are still average numbers and thats his best years. Al is a scrubb. I dont know how you can see other wise. The man cant score and wont defend , he fights among his team mates, he injury prone. He helps players score on him and HE DISAPPEARS IN THE PLAYOFFS.
Hes not the player Josh is and it weakens Altanta’s front court to have Al over Josh. Stupid move to put Al at the 4 over Josh.
We lose a very great defender in the post for one thats a pasty in the post, We lose a scoring threat in the post for 12.4
Josh’s career numbers are as good as or better than Al’s best years. Al is not now nor never will be the player Josh is. Josh is averging 19pt 10rb per night. Al is not now nor ever will be in that league.
Josh 2012
18.9 9.6 1.8 21.05
Career
15.1 7.9 2.2
Mark Question
April 18th, 2012
1:24 am
Asik/ZaZa
Al/Ivan
Josh/Marvin
Would be a formidable Frontcourt……
If you plan on making the lottery
or
arent interested in winning.
Mark Question
April 18th, 2012
1:28 am
Zaz/Al
Josh/Ivan
JJ/Tmac
Hinrich/ Green
Teague/ Hinrich
Mark Question
April 18th, 2012
1:31 am
Zaza, Josh, JJ > Hoford Ivan, Marvin
Mark Question
April 18th, 2012
1:33 am
Zaza or Al = Zaza
Josh or Al = Josh
Ivan or Al = Ivan
Marvin or Al even.
Let's get the 6th Seed
April 18th, 2012
3:51 am
It is enough to look at Paul Pierce’s stat line vs the Knicks: 43 points on 19 shots hahahah yeah so i have been saying all along we are doomed if we face the celtics. 18 FT Attemps for paul pierce against a knick defense that includes Tyson Chandler, Jeffries, Shumpert. Come on give me a break. Complete disaster if we end up facing the celtics. Just complete disaster.
Rev in Tampa
April 18th, 2012
7:11 am
Grandad,
Thanks for the update on athletic program at Creekside HS. It is sort of my old high school since they combined several schools to create it. I went to Palmetto during our run of state championships in football in the 1980’s
O'brien
April 18th, 2012
8:01 am
I havent watched many of the Knicks games that Woody has coached, but on the outside, it appears he has shown signs of improvement. However, please keep in mind that he has Tyson Chandler and Carmelo. Tyson will probably finish second in the DPOY voting, and Carmelo is one of the best scorers in the league.
Knicks put it on Boston last night. Carmelo with a triple double. Impressive. Celtics have another tough game tonight, playing the Magic.
vava74
April 18th, 2012
9:36 am
I don’t care if its IND or BOS, but…
The fact is that BOS is, beyond their natural “favoritivism” in normal circumstances (calls will go on their way by default since they are good for the ratings) they would also be a “feel good story” if they go far this year:
One of the most traditional themes in sports’ imaginarium: a bunch of old geezers which are together for what will be their last playoff run make a push for the title.
Even refs which would not be “by default and NBA ratings/policy” favoring the Celts will be psychologically inclined to give them a few breaks.
vava74
April 18th, 2012
9:38 am
On the global picture:
IF (big one) there are no injuries hindering them, I am putting my chips on SAS.
They have a deeeeeeeep and versatile roster and are coached by the best in the business.
The additions of Mills, Jackson and the French Man-Boobs were huge IMO.
Slimjr
April 18th, 2012
9:46 am
The Spurs look unbeatable right now, a whopping 15-2 in the last 17 games! Wow…
Another title coming their way? Steven Jackson has fit in nicely and gave them more energy!
Slimjr
April 18th, 2012
9:47 am
Hawks better secure the home court or they are toast in the 1st round…
Slimjr
April 18th, 2012
9:48 am
11-20
45
vava74
April 18th, 2012
9:49 am
I would actually like to see Duncan getting another title.
He is a class act and it would be fitting that they would have the luck to remain healthy (major obstacle for their past failures have been Manu’s untimely injuries and to a less extent Duncan’s nick-knack injuries)
vava74
April 18th, 2012
10:36 am
My moves for next season:
1. Amnesty Marvin – someone will probably pick him up at around 4 million per, which means that the cost, as a owner, would be only the differential.
What he produces can be easily replaced by – exactly – players in the 3-5 million range.
The cap relief would allow us to comfortably re-sign Ivan since he will also command something in the vicinity of 2-4 million.
2. Trade Al for cap relief and hopefully a high pick which could replace his production for 3 years on a rookie contract, taking someone’s bad contract – but lower than Al’s 13 million (if an expiring was not achieved).
Al and Josh cannot coexist IMO and Josh is BY FAR a more valuable player on court, whilst Al garners a respect which certainly make him a very coveted asset.
Josh would get from us a close to max deal at 17/18 million and I am sure that he would stay if he received main cog status and be the best paid Hawk (see point 3 for this).
3. There is no way anyone is taking JJ’s contract, so what I would is to offer him an extension, re-structuring his contract to 16 million per on average.
JJ knows that at the end of this contract he will not command in the open market more than 5 million per, so if he gets 2 extra years at 16, he will get the same $$ in total he would get with whatever contract he would sign after his tenure with us.
Use the cap space to re-sign Teague for what will be a more or less a 7 million per deal.
Ra'mon
April 18th, 2012
10:37 am
O’Brien, doesn’t Woody has the same roster as Mike D’antoni had? In fact he has a worse roster because Amare is out. If LD doesn’t return next season, the Hawks may play a loop and re-hire Woody, lol. Seriously though, why won’t the Hawks call Larry Brown if he’s interviewing with SMU?
vava74
April 18th, 2012
10:39 am
Point 1 would allow us to convert Marvin into Ivan + any SF who breathes and has a pulse.
I am liking, for instance, Gerald Green who seems to have matured through his hardships.
Rod from College Park
April 18th, 2012
10:45 am
“Hawks better secure the home court or they are toast in the 1st round…”
Home court or not, that will probably be the case anyway unless we play Orlando.
Ra'mon
April 18th, 2012
10:46 am
Vava, in 3 seasons, Joe will still be a top 5 SG in the league. There’s no way he will get less than 7-8 on his next deal. Remember, Joe rarely misses that many games.To be honest, I’ve been more impressed with Joe this season than I have been with Wade. There is not a clear SG who’s younger than Joe who will undoubtedly be great. Eric Gordon can’t stay healthy. And Brandon Roy who was the heir apparent career ended. Russel Westbrook may be the next 2 guard to be a super star. But other wise its PG/SF that are becoming the superstar position. So Joe has a long career ahead. Not to mention he can play at Paul Pierce’s level for another 5-7 seasons at the SF position.
Ra'mon
April 18th, 2012
10:47 am
Rod, the Hawks can beat the Pacers in a series.
Slimjr
April 18th, 2012
10:49 am
I would like to see OKC win one..SA has 4 already…..Really looking forward to these playoffs…
I wonder how far Indiana can take it? They are a legit 40 and 22 and won the last 9 of 10. Well balanced and deep…. Hawks want no part of Larry Bird’s squad…
The Title will come from the West again…
Slimjr
April 18th, 2012
10:53 am
From the eyeball test, Wade looks like he’s aging much faster than ISO..Hmmmm
Moral of the story; fast cars and fast women will wear you out before your time…LMBO!!
SteveW
April 18th, 2012
11:16 am
Ra’mon – Yes, the talk in Heat land is that Bosh and DWade haven’t had good years. Bosh, probably because he’s playing heavier than he likes combined with the compressed season. And DWade, just because he’s lost 1/2 a step.
Our bloggers may not be worried about the Heat’s ability once the playoffs come to turn it on, but there is total pandemonium in Heat land, both from bloggers and reporters about it. They are very concerned, and ready to blow it up if they don’t win a Championship this season.
Slimjr
April 18th, 2012
11:17 am
Vava74, good stuff man!
Cut Marvin.
Trade Robotus for cap relief and a pick or picks. We found out this season he would not really be missed thanks to Zaza’s play.. Heck even Ivan has more offensive skills at the 4..
I too think Gerald Green with the Nets is the real deal! Always like that dude’s game..Just too immature..He could have used some college seasoning? Getting kicked out the league for a couple of seasons appears to have worked.
He could be groomed to replace ISO someday real soon before the contract balloons to over 20 million a year…
Sund is off his rocker with that obscene contract signing..
SteveW
April 18th, 2012
11:21 am
The problem with trading Al. If I’m a GM, and I hear Al is on the trading block after this terrible injury, my first thought is “What does ATL know that they don’t want anyone to find out?”. Even if your drs. can check him out, you still wonder if they’ve missed something, or did Al say something privately or something.
Your not going to get good value for him. Unless Josh recants his request to go, he’ll probably be the one to go.
If he does decide to stay – trade JJ – his contract is the one holding this team back moving forward.
SteveW
April 18th, 2012
11:23 am
Play Al half a season – and if Al can’t handle C, or Josh can’t play the 3, then trade Al, after he’s shown he’s healthy to rival GM’s.
SteveW
April 18th, 2012
11:25 am
Amnestying Marvin would help things cap wise – can’t see the Hawks ever doing it though.
SteveW
April 18th, 2012
11:29 am
The good thing about JJ and Al’s contracts: This upcoming draft is the 1st one where both those guys contracts will be coming off the books when this years 1st Pick will become a Restricted Free Agent.
You got those 1st round pick rooks for 4 years on the Rookie scale.
And I am a little perplexed at how ZaZa, Asik, Al, Ivan, Josh, Marvin in your frontcourt makes you a lottery team. Unless it’s just a Josh plays 4 regardless type thing. If Josh can’t play the 3, trade Al for young, cheaper talent.
Ra'mon
April 18th, 2012
11:33 am
SteveW, I can see Bosh getting traded for Asik and Boozer at the off season, rather they win a title or not. Truth be told, the Heat should’ve attempted to trade Bosh for Nash and Lopez at the deadline. But they didn’t.
Ra'mon
April 18th, 2012
11:35 am
SteveW, I don’t think another GM would even think that our GM was thinking, lol.
vava74
April 18th, 2012
11:45 am
MC tweeted earlier today agreeing that it would be better to face IND as a 6th seed than playing BOS as a 5th seed with home court.
Rod from College Park
April 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
“Rod, the Hawks can beat the Pacers in a series.”
I’m not as sure as you are.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
April 18th, 2012
12:28 pm
“My rookie year, Coach Woodson told me I wasn’t going to play, straight up,” Teague said. “That was just how he worked. So I respected that.”.
FIRE WOODY
The same dude that told Teague he wasn’t going to play was the same dude that didn’t want Chris Paul or Deron Williams.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 18th, 2012
12:44 pm
” in 3 seasons, Joe will still be a top 5 SG in the league.”
In 3 years, Joe will be 34. Unless there are literally no good SGs who get drafted in that time, I highly doubt he’s still going to be top 5 at that point.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 18th, 2012
12:45 pm
The Hawks took the Celtics to 7 games without home court in 2008, when the Hawks were worse and the Celtics were better. Y’all really think beating them with home court is impossible?
The Pacers have blown out the Hawks. The Celtics haven’t. Give me home court and the Celtics over no home court and the Pacers.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 18th, 2012
12:48 pm
“One of the most traditional themes in sports’ imaginarium: a bunch of old geezers which are together for what will be their last playoff run make a push for the title.”
Haha… if “imaginarium” isn’t a real word it should be.
MsDee
April 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
“The Hawks took the Celtics to 7 games without home court in 2008, when the Hawks were worse and the Celtics were better. Y’all really think beating them with home court is impossible?
The Pacers have blown out the Hawks. The Celtics haven’t. Give me home court and the Celtics over no home court and the Pacers.”
Honestly, give me who ever fall in place. Teams like Indiana, NY, Philly, and even Orlando should be worrying about who they play but a team who has made it to the playoffs 4 consecutive years shouldnt be scared to face anyone, esp being truly a seed #4..Hawks in 6 (1st round) Boston or Pacers!!
Slimjr
April 18th, 2012
1:14 pm
Indiana is on fire with the Home court..Hawks dont want that match up at all..
They’d lose in 5 or 6..
Ra'mon
April 18th, 2012
1:31 pm
Najeh, out of the top 5 SGs in the league now, the only one I would see on an upswing is Harden. Joe will be 34, but Joe is a guy who is never out of shape. And Joe will be able to slide to the SF position to continue his career going. I don’t see any young SG’s who are going to blow up all of a sudden. So someone would have to be drafted, and become an all star in 2-3 seasons to push Joe all the way out of top 5, when the top SG will be retired by then, and the 2nd SG will have lost a lot of his explosion because of injuries.
vava74
April 18th, 2012
1:40 pm
Najeh,
“imaginarium” is Latin.
Literally it “imaginary” but in Latin languages (like my native Portuguese) is both used in its original Latin form or in its converted form (for instance “imaginário” in Portugal) along with another words or expressions like “collective” or “sports”, to describe a “group of concepts, images, themes” commonly known and/or accepted as “ideal”.
We usually use this for instance to describe a movies, sports moments, which appreciation is shared by the majority of people.
Old geezers making one final playoff run together for an emblematic ball club like the Celts fits exactly the bill: it fits a “romantic ideal”.
vava74
April 18th, 2012
1:44 pm
Ra’mon,
Marshon Brooks will be a star in this league within 2 years.
DeRozan, maybe.
What JJ brings to the table and that most of the times passes unnoticed because people only watch half of the games is JJ’s D which is well above average when he does not decide to take the day off (which does happen a bit too much IMO).
Melvin
April 18th, 2012
2:05 pm
Ra’mon,
Tyreke Evans, Eric Gordon and Evan Turner will be good SGs for years to come. And this year High School sensation Shabazz Muhammad (the next Kobe) will be in the league within the next 3yrs… I can’t see Joe being top 3 SG 3 years from now.
glw
April 18th, 2012
2:42 pm
Vava74,
I can buy your next season plans, amnesty Marvin isnt all bad and even trading Al for a younger less expensive player might be smart, but Joe dont need to get any more money. NO way he gets an extension. And Josh getting close to max money??? 17-18 milli? Josh has a unique skill set, but if he got that, his contract would be worse than JJ. Once Josh knees go in 3-4 years, that unique skill set he has will cease to exist. At least Joe has the ability to pound and can shoot, but Josh game will really go down the tube once he cant jump.