Atlanta Hawks: Raptors 102, Hawks 86
- This was a throwback game for the Hawks, harkening to their bygone days of ugliness. Just like old times–by which of course I mean last season–you had a lifeless loss, aggravated fans and Joe Johnson calling out teammates without naming names.
- “I think some of us was ready, and some of us wasn’t,” he said. “It just kind of gave a bad effect on the whole team. But give Toronto credit. They were better than us tonight. If we come out and start like that tomorrow, they’ll be better than us [again].”
- Not sure who Joe was talking about or if he included himself (seven points on 12 shots) among those not ready. Really, it could be anyone outside of Ivan Johnson and Josh Smith. No one else on Atlanta’s roster provided much evidence that they expected to actually have to play to beat the Raptors, who really do deserve credit for taking it to the Hawks.
- “Our season has been up and down but we’re not going to lay down,” James Johnson said. “We still have pride, we’re still men, and this is our job.”
- Larry Drew echoed Joe’s concerns while naming a name: “Early, I know Jeff Teague seemed very passive. His energy level wasn’t very good. I put [Jannero] Pargo in earlier than usual just to try to muster up some energy. Not taking anything from Toronto, I thought they played hard. We told our guys that’s not a team that has rolled over. The played extremely hard against Boston.”
- Joe’s gripes didn’t end with who was or wasn’t ready. Asked about the stagnant offense, he said: “It’s been like that for quite some time. I don’t feel like we take advantage of mismatches for whatever reason. It’s frustrating because of where we are at this point in the season.”
- That’s also the reason this is such a bad loss. It’s been a while since the Hawks turned in such a listless performance, and it would be easier to chalk it up as a bad night if the Hawks weren’t playing for home court. Then again, it’s doubtful many of the fans at the game tonight were inspired to run out and get their playoff tickets.
- “I don’t think this is a game you put our of your mind,” Willie Green said. “I think this is a game we need to think about. We’re supposed to be getting ready for a playoff run. It was a letdown on our part.”
- Actually, come to think of it, this would be a bad L even if the Hawks didn’t have something to play for. That’s always going to be the case when Ben Uzoh, Alan Anderson and Justin Dentmon outplay Teague, Joe, Kirk Hinrich and whichever-bench-guards-were-in-there.
- I’m not sure which was the worst sequence. Was it Josh throwing away the inbound pass just before halftime, leading to Uzoh’s score right after DeMar DeRozan had flipped in an uncontested jumper? Or maybe it was Josh taking a seat and Joe failing to check in, leaving the Hawks with four players on the floor as play started?
- I’m going with those two Pargo airballs in the fourth quarter because, if you can’t even count on Pargo Time, what else is there?
- I’m thinking Dwane Casey played a good amount of zone with the hope that the Hawks, especially Josh, would settle for Js. It worked. “You can’t win a championship with it, but it’s a good thing to have in our back pocket,” Casey said.
- Ivan (14 points on 9 shots, seven rebounds, three assists, three steals) was really the only guy to match Toronto’s effort and pace for the entire game. He needed help.
- Jason Collins started. He lasted less than six minutes. It seemed as if Drew had finally given up on playing Collins in anything but a very narrow role, but this wasn’t it.
- Drew says he likes to start Hinrich because he adds defensive tenacity to the lineup. It’s true that Kirk plays with spunk but he’s just not the defender he was even last season, and I’m not saying that just because he struggled with a tough matchup tonight.
- Green stayed behind in Atlanta as his wife prepares to have a baby.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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219 comments Add your comment
Cwebb
April 16th, 2012
1:33 pm
First french post ever (on AJC) !
O'brien
April 16th, 2012
1:34 pm
Northcdye,
nobody said that JJ is great. But he’s been playing at a high level (most of the time) since the All-Star break
20.7 ppg
3.8 rebs
4.0 asst
48% FG
42% 3FG
84% FT.
Unfortunately, “most of the time” comes against bad teams.
They’re not Superstar numbers, but still very good nonetheless. If he has a good game tomorrow, people will say “he only plays like that vs bad teams”. So he can’t win either way..
Sure he can. All he has to do is step his game up when we play good teams. But he doesn’t.
O'brien
April 16th, 2012
1:35 pm
Vava,
This year the Hawks only lost 5 games against sub .500 teams. That’s a vast improvement with regard to last year..
True, but last year Hawks went 14-26 (35%) against Winning teams, and this year, they are at 14-26 (35%). So although they may be better against bad teams, they are the same against winning teams (assuming my math is correct). Isn’t that how they should be judged?
Arent they supposed to be taking another step forward?
Astro Joe
April 16th, 2012
1:37 pm
Joe was awful last night and has no business trying to call out anyone else for the debacle. However, the saddest part about the game was the defense. Without Bargnani, Calderon, Bayless and with some 10-day contract PGs in tow, the Raptors scored 100 points.
And what does LD need to see from Twin to understand that this guy is wretchedly bad? Please, give Dampier a chance to be equally as bad… I personally doubt that it is possible.
Joe for 3
April 16th, 2012
1:37 pm
Zut alors!
doc
April 16th, 2012
1:40 pm
bulls eye o’b even without al. seems the monster got my emphatic ditto. nice data.
IlliniDawg
April 16th, 2012
1:50 pm
CWebb: Tres magnifique!
Jah, ich habe zwei oder drei schlecten Fehlerin der Grammatik gemacht! Scheiss!
But the point of my post was this: as Sir Charles and others have noted, the basketball IQ on this team is abysmal.
KevinM
April 16th, 2012
1:56 pm
OB, nice research on that….you would think that we are better than that this year, and we probably are, because since Al is down, we need Zaza and Ivan to help us. If and when Al returns, we should be better.
This is a unique season, and we have seen every team throw a game or 2 away, perhaps with the exception of Chicago.
Now, after hitting me in the gut with that news on Sund, it sure is hard to see us making any significant changes because we our future is not one of developing our players. It is a task of minimum players around our current big 3. That’s all we can afford and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Sund try to move JT this offseason.
Is it possible we end up this year like last year heading into the playoffs? Hard to imagine people buying playoff tickets with the thought of us being a contender this year.
Bravesfan79
April 16th, 2012
2:01 pm
BIGLOU: YOUR the reason Atlanta is called looserville, so youd rather us blow up the core and become like who? The pistons? The warriors? Your a moron. Give me a playoff team any day! Only a fool would give up all together on a team when there one of the top 4 teams in their conference.
Rooting for your team to face a certain team or scenario in the playoffs dosent make you a looser, it makes you a strategist! Or perhaps you suck at games like chess where you actually have to think.
Bravesfan79
April 16th, 2012
2:03 pm
Chances we beat Indiana… around 60% Chances we beat Boston 40%. So now you tell me, what seed is better, the 5th or 6th. Besides, the Heat in the 2nd round would be more exciting to watch than the defensive minded Bulls.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 16th, 2012
2:14 pm
Team Solutions!
Same players = same outcomes. Get new players, if you really want to move forward.
Trade away what’s holding you back and replace them with players that give you what’s missing. How hard is that?
Sushi
April 16th, 2012
2:15 pm
Only one game – watch – the Hawks are gonna kick Toronto in the butt tonight. It’s obvious they totally underestimated Toronto’s D-League loaded lineup and expected them to roll over.
Also, Josh Smith had a decent game, but he needs to quit trying to be a point guard and give up the ball to a guard. His domination of the ball is one of the reasons why Teague is ineffective.
Slimjr
April 16th, 2012
2:42 pm
Sund MUST RETIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
April 16th, 2012
2:43 pm
32 lackluster years? Time to go fishing man…
High-sider
April 16th, 2012
2:47 pm
“True, but last year Hawks went 14-26 (35%) against Winning teams, and this year, they are at 14-26 (35%). So although they may be better against bad teams, they are the same against winning teams (assuming my math is correct). Isn’t that how they should be judged?” – O’brien
win-loss record: 14-26
14+26 = 40
14/40 = 7/20
7/20 x 5/5 = 35/100 = 0.350 = 35% winning percentage
Yes, your math is correct. [Just kidding. LOL]
Slimjr
April 16th, 2012
2:47 pm
“Trade away what’s holding you back and replace them with players that give you what’s missing. How hard is that?”
Apparently very hard for this group of investors…sigh….
Cwebb
April 16th, 2012
2:52 pm
Illinidawg,
“But the point of my post was this: as Sir Charles and others have noted, the basketball IQ on this team is abysmal.”
I won’t go as far, but I must admit that it’s nothing to be proud of…
Slimjr
April 16th, 2012
2:52 pm
Gearon Jr, if your squad buttered its bread in the Western Conference they’d be castrated on a nightly basis…Aren’t you grateful you do not operate your business in the West?
You maybe wealthy and I guess very wise too? How ironic?
Slimjr
April 16th, 2012
2:58 pm
14-26 against the winners is absolutely pathetic!!
Now thats real data there…No way around that math…It is what it is, Pathetic….
35% against the winners= PRETENDERS
45
Slimjr
April 16th, 2012
3:00 pm
4 hrs till tip off. I’m contemplating not watching..
13-5
kingd92
April 16th, 2012
3:06 pm
START TMAC FOR KIRK!!
doc
April 16th, 2012
3:06 pm
slimj dont miss the piece from ny times on ya knicks and melo i posted earlier today.
MistaGamer
April 16th, 2012
3:12 pm
Man I’m so sick of this Joe Johnson guy aka “The Hamburgular”. Who and what the hell is he talking about… or in Joe’s case NOT talking about.
How he continues to get away with is lack of performance without coaching, management, media not calling this guy to the carpet is beyond me.
If Joe is not is up for discussion I wish they would just come out and say it. Josh was always up for discussion both fair and unfairly. But I’m just sick of this crap. Every reason why I said you don’t pay Joe the money has come to fruition 150%.
Slimjr
April 16th, 2012
3:28 pm
Good Stuff doc..Anthony has got to buy into sharing the rock when Amare’ returns this week to gear up for their playoff run. I think Woody will get him to comply. It’s great to see the Knicks in the playoffs for a change.. They actually may have more of an impact than our Hawks.. I hear that Lin can return if they make it out of the 1st round.. Nice
Basketball drama, NY has it now…….lol
KevinM
April 16th, 2012
3:29 pm
Makes no sense to pay Joe that money if you are going to have a coach who makes less than 10 percent of the superstar he coaches. He isn’t going to get Joe’s attention, Josh’s attention, or even Al’s attention. These guys have made it already.
But here we are hoping for Al to come back in time to make a difference, but I don’t see it as any advantage as Zaza has played very well. Can he perform for 20+ more games? We can’t depend on Collins or Dampier, and we have T-Mac who has the strangest role on any team in recent memory.
I agree with someone who said to insert T-Mac into a starting role, but my guess is LD’s ego wouldnt allow it at this point.
We are seeing the final tour for one T-Mac because he isn’t going to be wanted next year. I remember Stinger said at the beginnning of the year that we need T-Mac to come in and have a few 30 point games…..that hometown broadcasting is just painful sometimes.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see a 4 min T-Mac stint here and there going forward.
justahawkfan
April 16th, 2012
3:33 pm
Charles and others have noted, the basketball IQ on this team is abysmal. It’s that the same Charlie that wear a dress. Can you really take a man who don a dress serious. What is charlie’s IQ?
kevkat
April 16th, 2012
3:35 pm
To be honest, I’m really just waiting for the playoffs to start. They are obviously satisfied just to make it into the playoffs which for a team with this talent and considering the currently playoff format isn’t that hard to do. I’m even more interested in the off season, which at their current level of play, will come sooner than later. I hate to see Josh leave but for all his faults, he deserves to be on a better team. This group can’t get it done consistently because they simply can’t co-exist together, their individual games don’t compliment one another and they seem to refuse to try to make it work. Good to great basketball talent mixed with some bad or conceited attitudes, an unwillingness to look in the mirror at yourself and sacrifice pride to make your team better and low fundamental basketball I.Q’s gives you what you are presently looking at..an inconsistent team with a consistent future of losing unless changes are made.
KevinM
April 16th, 2012
3:35 pm
i will say, nba.com ranking the Hawks 10th in the power rankings is simply amazing. They havent’ done alot lately to deserve that high a ranking, and we are def fortunate to be in the East.
KevinM
April 16th, 2012
3:40 pm
is it not amazing that New Orleans will get an all-star game and this city is probaby not in the discussion?
Are you sure you guys want Indy instead of Boston? I dont think there is an advantage there at all.
We play Boston just fine….we just have to close those games out.
Bravesfan79
April 16th, 2012
3:41 pm
Charles Barkley is a has been womanizer who only has a career after basketball because of affirmitive action. Anyone who takes what he says seriously is a moron.
Ps… the Hawks basketball IQ goes up a good bit when Mcgrady is on the floor!
Bravesfan79
April 16th, 2012
3:43 pm
Kevin: Ok say we get by Boston, would u rather see a series against the Bulls (that might go to 5 or 6 games max), or against Miami, that could potentially be a 7 game series. Not to mention more exciting. Give me Indy/ Miami anyday.
Slimjr
April 16th, 2012
3:44 pm
I would be surprised if Josh stays on board with the Hawks organization. I do not expect him to stay though.. They would be wise to trade him for picks…..
Slimjr
April 16th, 2012
3:47 pm
Boston and Philly own the Hawks, Indiana with the home court advantage should win in 5 or 6 games…
Bravesfan79
April 16th, 2012
3:48 pm
No advantage in playing Boston over Indy? LOL Rondo vs Collinson, then u got Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett. How many NBA finals has Indy made in the past 4 years? What team has the more intense playoff defense? Like they say on NFL live….Common Man!
Bravesfan79
April 16th, 2012
3:51 pm
Hawks beat Indy in 6 or 7 games. If Indy wins the series, it takes them 7 games to do it. How many future hall of famers does Indy have? How many does Boston have? my point exactly..
O'brien
April 16th, 2012
4:03 pm
KevinM,
Also, it makes no sense to pay Joe that money if you are not going to surround him with the right pieces to make a run. As Melvin so eloquently put it…The Hawks are in luxury tax despite 8 guys making the vet minimum. 8! And a 9th guy on a rookie contract. And then to help offset the LT bill, we had to sell a second round draft pick SMH.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
4:04 pm
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 16th, 2012
2:14 pm
Team Solutions!
Same players = same outcomes. Get new players, if you really want to move forward.
Trade away what’s holding you back and replace them with players that give you what’s missing. How hard is that?
_____________________
Agreed. Shouldn’t be all THAT hard. Something about being an ATL team seems to significantly increase the difficulty factor in this key area.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
April 16th, 2012
4:09 pm
WHERE IS GEARON?
WHY DON’T YOU GIVE AN EXPLANATION FOR LAST NIGHT?
PEOPLE SPENT THEY HARD EARNED MONEY TO TAKE THEY FAMILY TO THE GAME!
GAS PRICES TOO HIGH TO GO SEE THE HAWKS GET BLOWN OUT AT HOME!
WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY!
Admiral Snackbar
April 16th, 2012
4:11 pm
it’s obvious the hawks have shut it down for the year after losing the Boston game there is no way they can move up. problably a good move. all that matters now is the playoffs. and indy would the team to play although it would be nice to retire that Boston team for good. wouldn’t that be SWEET!!!
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
April 16th, 2012
4:14 pm
THAT DUDE WITH THE PIZZA CHAIN WOULD HAVE SHOOK THIS TEAM UP.
WE NEED NEW OWNERSHIP ASAP
THE SPIRIT GROUP SHOULD HAVE BEEN RAN OUT OF ATLANTA WHEN THEY SOLD THE THRASHERS!
Admiral Snackbar
April 16th, 2012
4:14 pm
hawks really have had an uphill climb when it comes to getting superstars. I remember when we signed dr J and then had it nullified. that’s how you break fan’s hearts.
O'brien
April 16th, 2012
4:20 pm
High-sider,
You forgot to mention…Trading a #6 pick (Childress) for a 2nd round pick and a player exception (that was never used).
O'brien
April 16th, 2012
4:22 pm
doc,
I read the Melo piece. JJ owes Woody a % of his contract, because if it wasn’t for Woody running iso-JJ all the time, JJ would not have had the high usage rate he had, which allowed him to increase his stats.
High-sider,
Thanks for double checking my math
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
4:26 pm
Bravesfan79
April 16th, 2012
3:43 pm
Kevin: Ok say we get by Boston, would u rather see a series against the Bulls (that might go to 5 or 6 games max), or against Miami, that could potentially be a 7 game series. Not to mention more exciting. Give me Indy/ Miami anyday.
______________________
I could care less WHO we meet in the playoffs. I just want to WIN in the playoffs, as I have for the past many years–without much success.
cp
April 16th, 2012
4:29 pm
Even if the Hawks don’t make it out of the first round this year I don’t expect many changes. They have already offered Sund a contract to come back so I expect LD and the core for another year too. They will use injuries and the shortened season as a reason to bring everyone back. At one point I was thinking the Hawks might try and trade either Josh or Al during the draft but I don’t think this front office is bold enough to make a move like that. I just hope that some changes are made. I don’t know about blow it up but somebody from the core has to be moved.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
4:38 pm
cp
April 16th, 2012
4:29 pm
Even if the Hawks don’t make it out of the first round this year I don’t expect many changes. They have already offered Sund a contract to come back so I expect LD and the core for another year too. They will use injuries and the shortened season as a reason to bring everyone back. At one point I was thinking the Hawks might try and trade either Josh or Al during the draft but I don’t think this front office is bold enough to make a move like that. I just hope that some changes are made. I don’t know about blow it up but somebody from the core has to be moved.
________________________
That’s a realistic assessment, and a sad one for ATL fans–given the number of years they’ve had to face this same situation at season’s end.
Astro Joe
April 16th, 2012
4:41 pm
OF COURSE the Hawks won’t make many changes if they make it to the 2nd round… because that is the objective of ownership. Seriously guys, how many times do you need ownership to explain it? These guys have an annual target of 6 home playoff games. Gearon said earlier this season that he would prefer a long first round series over a first round series sweep. Now why do you think he said that? Because of the revenue of the extra home games! The current standard is 6 home playoff games… they have achieved that for 3 consecutive years. IMO, the only way things change is if that is either in jeopardy (as it was last season when Bibby was stinking up the gym and they traded for Hinrich) or if it doesn’t happen (which could happen this season, especially if we face the Celtics in the opening round).
All of you who continue to dream of an ownership group that is diligently focused on bringing the gold trophy to Atlanta and holding a parade down Peachtree need to wkae-up from your deep, deep, deep, deep slumber. An ownership group that doesn’t pay to get a scoreboard fixed in their home arena isn’t concerned with grand slam home runs, they are perfectly content with a ground rule double. They will maintain the status quo as long as the forecasted revenue meets the annual budget.
Big Lou
April 16th, 2012
4:53 pm
Well, I’m going to the Braves and Mets game. Hope they can make it 6 straight! Good luck with the Hawks tonight guys. I predict Joe to go off. Hawks should win by ten, not like it would matter.
High-sider
April 16th, 2012
5:04 pm
justahawkfan
April 16th, 2012
3:33 pm
Charles and others have noted, the basketball IQ on this team is abysmal. It’s that the same Charlie that wear a dress. Can you really take a man who don a dress serious. What is charlie’s IQ?
—————————————————————————-
I’m sick of all these male entertainers wearing dresses or effeminate/feminine clothing. Is this part of that “Illuminati” stuff that I keep hearing about?
Charles Barkley – wore dress in “Weight Watchers” commercial
Will Smith – wore belly dancer/”Genie” outfit in movie “Wild, Wild West”; played a gay role in movie,”Six Degrees of Separation”
Wesley Snipes – played transvestite in movie, “To Wong Foo Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar”
Chris Rock – wore dress/lingerie in movie, “CB4″; wore dress in episode of “Fresh Prince of Bel-Air”
Chris Tucker – wore effeminate/feminine outfit in movie “The Fifth Element”
Marlon Wayans and Shawn Wayans – both wore women’s clothing in movie, “White Chicks”
David Alan Grier and Damon Wayans – both wore effeminate/feminine outfits in “Men on Film” skits on the “In Living Color” show
Martin Lawrence – wore women’s clothing in all three “Big Momma’s House” movies, dressed up as Shanaynay and Mrs. Payne [both female characters] in the “Marin Lawrence” show
Jamie Foxx – played “Ugly Wanda” [female character] in “In Living Color” skits
Tyler Perry – plays/played “Madea” [female character] in all his movies and plays
Flip Wilson – played “Geraldine” [female character] in his skits on “The Flip Wilson Show”
Eddie Murphy – played female characters in “The Nutty Professor” and played “Rasputia” [female character] in movie “Norbit”
Brandon T. Jackson – wore women’s clothing in movie, “Big Momma’s: Like Father, Like Son”
Cuba Gooding, Jr. – starred in movie, “Boat Trip” where two “straight” men end up on a gays only cruise; not sure if Gooding, Jr. wore any female clothing
Chiwetel Ejiofor – played drag queen in move, “Kinky Boots”
Cedric the Entertainer – played “Cafeteria Lady” [female character] in his sketch show “Cedric the Entertainer Presents”
Steve Harvey – not sure if he has played any female characters; I’ve heard he’s dressed up like an elderly church lady
Denzel Washington – received or took a gunshot [wound] to the buttocks in movie “Training Day”; this type of act/event [getting shot in the behind] is supposed to have strong sexual connotations/analogies/metaphors
Eddie Griffin, Jr., criticized playing a female role in the movie “Foolish” and Dave Chappelle criticized playing a female role on “The Oprah Winfrey Show.” Where are Griffin, Jr., and Chappelle now[adays]?
I really hate the emasculation and the effeminization of all men and black men, in particular, since I am a black man/male.
High-sider
April 16th, 2012
5:08 pm
I forgot about Larry Johnson playing “Grandmama” in the Converse [basketball] shoe commercials.