Atlanta Hawks: Raptors 102, Hawks 86
- This was a throwback game for the Hawks, harkening to their bygone days of ugliness. Just like old times–by which of course I mean last season–you had a lifeless loss, aggravated fans and Joe Johnson calling out teammates without naming names.
- “I think some of us was ready, and some of us wasn’t,” he said. “It just kind of gave a bad effect on the whole team. But give Toronto credit. They were better than us tonight. If we come out and start like that tomorrow, they’ll be better than us [again].”
- Not sure who Joe was talking about or if he included himself (seven points on 12 shots) among those not ready. Really, it could be anyone outside of Ivan Johnson and Josh Smith. No one else on Atlanta’s roster provided much evidence that they expected to actually have to play to beat the Raptors, who really do deserve credit for taking it to the Hawks.
- “Our season has been up and down but we’re not going to lay down,” James Johnson said. “We still have pride, we’re still men, and this is our job.”
- Larry Drew echoed Joe’s concerns while naming a name: “Early, I know Jeff Teague seemed very passive. His energy level wasn’t very good. I put [Jannero] Pargo in earlier than usual just to try to muster up some energy. Not taking anything from Toronto, I thought they played hard. We told our guys that’s not a team that has rolled over. The played extremely hard against Boston.”
- Joe’s gripes didn’t end with who was or wasn’t ready. Asked about the stagnant offense, he said: “It’s been like that for quite some time. I don’t feel like we take advantage of mismatches for whatever reason. It’s frustrating because of where we are at this point in the season.”
- That’s also the reason this is such a bad loss. It’s been a while since the Hawks turned in such a listless performance, and it would be easier to chalk it up as a bad night if the Hawks weren’t playing for home court. Then again, it’s doubtful many of the fans at the game tonight were inspired to run out and get their playoff tickets.
- “I don’t think this is a game you put our of your mind,” Willie Green said. “I think this is a game we need to think about. We’re supposed to be getting ready for a playoff run. It was a letdown on our part.”
- Actually, come to think of it, this would be a bad L even if the Hawks didn’t have something to play for. That’s always going to be the case when Ben Uzoh, Alan Anderson and Justin Dentmon outplay Teague, Joe, Kirk Hinrich and whichever-bench-guards-were-in-there.
- I’m not sure which was the worst sequence. Was it Josh throwing away the inbound pass just before halftime, leading to Uzoh’s score right after DeMar DeRozan had flipped in an uncontested jumper? Or maybe it was Josh taking a seat and Joe failing to check in, leaving the Hawks with four players on the floor as play started?
- I’m going with those two Pargo airballs in the fourth quarter because, if you can’t even count on Pargo Time, what else is there?
- I’m thinking Dwane Casey played a good amount of zone with the hope that the Hawks, especially Josh, would settle for Js. It worked. “You can’t win a championship with it, but it’s a good thing to have in our back pocket,” Casey said.
- Ivan (14 points on 9 shots, seven rebounds, three assists, three steals) was really the only guy to match Toronto’s effort and pace for the entire game. He needed help.
- Jason Collins started. He lasted less than six minutes. It seemed as if Drew had finally given up on playing Collins in anything but a very narrow role, but this wasn’t it.
- Drew says he likes to start Hinrich because he adds defensive tenacity to the lineup. It’s true that Kirk plays with spunk but he’s just not the defender he was even last season, and I’m not saying that just because he struggled with a tough matchup tonight.
- Green stayed behind in Atlanta as his wife prepares to have a baby.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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219 comments Add your comment
pointguardslim
April 16th, 2012
9:47 am
# Drew says he likes to start Hinrich because he adds defensive tenacity to the lineup. It’s true that Kirk plays with spunk but he’s just not the defender he was even last season, and I’m not saying that just because he struggled with a tough matchup tonight.
****************
THANK YOU.
Teague – back to PG
Johnson – back to the SG matchup
Smith
Ivan
Pachulia
I know Pachulia was out but Kirk Hinrich is an absolute spoiler.
doc
April 16th, 2012
9:51 am
now tell me why twin is still on our roster for the umpteenth time? whose delusion is it? is it similar to pape sy experiment? why someone like sy, so raw who is described as getting better in his euro league now, when there were plenty of good tested college players or even a stackhouse last year when he might have still could have played at a similar price once you add in the vet minimum payback from the league.
well they were playing to my expectations last night. sadly enough, this team might have over achieved much like the last woody year where everything fell into place like no injuries and other teams faltering so badly except the cavs and the magic that year. man that was a truly sad year for the east, looking back at that year in particular. ha, it was sold as we are elite! amazing that this year there is still no comparison to the depth of the west,as being better than the east. in spite of this i said and restate we are trending down folks. it was the message i gave at the beginning of the year. frankly the swoon of philly might save us from dropping further than we are.
yup the basg made the right move in realizing all had conspired to make the team and woody look better than they were and allowed woody’s contract to run out and not renew. problem is they went soft on the replacement and the desire to save money to spend on a restaurant got in the way of a basketball decision.
no over reaction vava. this is the real hawks coming out last night not the pretenders we want to believe in who are over achieving big time in my opinion against the dregs of the league.
teague? he really showed his stuff at the end of the boston game. anyone interested go back and look at his body language when josh launched his three instead of passing it to him. he slumped, dropped his head and then watched jj have to get the ball that bounced two feet in front of him where he could have taken it and gone straight at the hoop. sorry he just doesnt have that tenacity we all want him to have that inner dog we all talked about and he was sequestered for a year and a half on the bench. it comes out at the worst times now, like last night.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 16th, 2012
9:59 am
“So yall would rather play Boston then Indiana?? And even if u win that u get Chicago. Are you serious??”
Yes, I would rather play Boston and Chicago than Indiana and Miami. I want a chance, however slim, of getting to the ECF. Regular season results aside, the Heat are a tougher matchup than the Bulls. Beating the Bulls will be extremely hard but it can be done if the Hawks play smart and together. Beating the Heat is impossible, period. Like every other team with superior talent, they will turn it on when the playoffs start.
STRETCH THIS YO
April 16th, 2012
10:02 am
How does an NBA player take a night off ? Take several nights off ? What are they getting paid for ? Michael Jordan didn’t take a night off for 20 years college & pro’s). These players need to look at themselves in the mirror and challenge themselves to play hard every game all game.
vava74
April 16th, 2012
10:05 am
Najeh Davenpoop
April 16th, 2012
9:59 am
Co-sign.
Also, IND is very very deep and as well as BOS may be playing, they have, at times, 300 years on the floor and they are bound to wear off and be limited by nick-knack injuries during the playoffs.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 16th, 2012
10:08 am
“Also, you can’t discount – AT ALL – the fact that we played without Zaza since Zaza not only is our enforcer, he is also a guy who nowadays sets the tone from tip off.”
Let’s be real though, vava… if this team is that dependent on Zaza, they are screwed in the playoffs.
The Raptors were playing without their two biggest defensive liabilities, are coached by a very good defensive coach, and had several athletic players on the floor. I will give them that much. It is not that surprising that they played a solid defensive game.
But in their win over the Celtics, Boston still managed to make it extremely difficult for Toronto to score, as they should have since the Raptors’ roster is full of D-League quality players. The Hawks let Toronto shoot 55%. There is NO excuse for that. Zaza being out does not and should not have that big of an impact, seeing as how he’s not a very good help defender anyway.
No excuse for what the Hawks did last night. We can only hope it is a one game letdown and that they will bounce back, but seeing as how every game from here on out is crucial for seeding, it is a terrible sign when all but two players on the team show up looking like they would rather be somewhere else.
Astro Joe
April 16th, 2012
10:11 am
Well, I want the Hawks to play the Celtics in the first round. Here’s my crazy reasoning. The Hawks can beat Orlando (in a 3-6 match-up) relatively easily and without reaching an unprecedented level of team play. However, in order to beat the Celtics, they will have to have a team break-through. A first round defeat of the Celtics will undoubtedly be the biggest playoff series win in this current Hawks era and could provide the proper spring-board into a possible second round victory against a familiar foe, the Bulls. IMO, the Heat are treading water with the intent of “flipping the switch” in a few weeks. I don’t envision the Hawks being able to do anything with the Heat in the 2nd round (especially after a fairly routine series victory against the Magic). So, yeah, I’ll take the risk of battling the Celtics. IMO, they bring out the best of the Hawks unlike any other team in the NBA. And if that best is good enough to win a playoff series, then maybe, the Hawks can finally break through the glass ceiling of the 2nd round. And if not, maybe the ASG will tell Sund to do something bold in the summer. Either way (IMO), we win. Bring on the Boston Beans!
Najeh Davenpoop
April 16th, 2012
10:11 am
” I mean come on, the way the celtics have been playing THEY WOULD GET 10-15 More Free Throws per game than us. They would get all the calls, PIERCE WOULD BE UNTOUCHABLE, Garnett Rondo Allen as well. we would be deep into foul trouble and get crushed. ”
Indiana gets all the calls at home, too. If the Hawks play the Pacers, the Pacers will have home court.
The Pacers have also done something to the Hawks that the Celtics have not been able to do — blow them out. Granted, that was the game Al Horford got injured, but still, it’s not like the Hawks have been overmatched against the Celtics. They shot themselves in the foot in both losses with self-inflicted stupidity and give me little confidence that they can overcome this self-inflicted stupidity, but Boston isn’t that much worse of a matchup than Indiana.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 16th, 2012
10:12 am
Yahoo’s standings say the Hawks have already clinched a playoff spot.
Astro Joe
April 16th, 2012
10:13 am
BTW, Dwayne Casey doesn’t seem like a head coach who has to discuss “effort & energy” with his team. Team is in the final days of a losing season and they are playing with pride, honor and effort. Wow.
vava74
April 16th, 2012
10:16 am
Najeh,
When a team is already without their starting C and has to start Collins because Zaza is out, yes, I stand by my assessment.
Last night we had 6′9” Josh, 6′7” Ivan and a 6′9” going on 6′2” disappearing act called Marvin as our front court.
It’s not that TOR has anything remotely spectacular on their frontcourt but by the half time they were already +7 on rebounds to match a lead of 14 (1 FG per rebound ).
Marvin had 1 rebound in 9 minutes on the second quarter, Ivan had 2 also in 9 minutes, Josh 1 in 6 minutes…
Najeh Davenpoop
April 16th, 2012
10:20 am
“Last night we had 6′9” Josh, 6′7” Ivan and a 6′9” going on 6′2” disappearing act called Marvin as our front court.
It’s not that TOR has anything remotely spectacular on their frontcourt but by the half time they were already +7 on rebounds to match a lead of 14 (1 FG per rebound ).
Marvin had 1 rebound in 9 minutes on the second quarter, Ivan had 2 also in 9 minutes, Josh 1 in 6 minutes…”
The only big player the Raptors played was Aaron Gray, and at least from my recollection he did most of his damage in Collins’ 5 minutes of playing time. Everyone else was 6′9″ and shorter.
The Hawks just didn’t want it last night, kind of like every game they have played against Philly this season. They went up against a team in attack mode that kept taking it to the basket and folded. Not saying Zaza wouldn’t have helped, but Zaza isn’t good enough to be the difference between a win and a blowout loss to a lottery team.
LOL at “6′9″ going on 6′2″ though. What a perfect description of Marvin.
Dawg
April 16th, 2012
10:24 am
Joe makes over $200,000 per game, he scored 7 points. Surely he is not calling anyone out.
Hey Sund, how’s that back up center doing?
Rusty
April 16th, 2012
10:37 am
I get it good game ld,you don’t want the celts in the playoffs to protect your job. Who said you were dumb. Gtratgame.
Matt
April 16th, 2012
10:39 am
This loss is “Exhibit A” for reasons why people don’t care about the Hawks.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
10:42 am
northcyde
April 15th, 2012
11:30 pm
This loss, in the end, won’t turn out to be much of a big deal, because we’re probably not catching the Pacers anyway.
This loss is on you Mr. Johnson. No big deal. Just get it out of your system by the time the playoffs come.
____________________
EVERY loss should be a big deal. It is the acceptance of losing that separates ATL’s pro teams from champions.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
10:45 am
steve brown
April 15th, 2012
11:28 pm
In a “major” city we would know the particulars of what exactly went down to get Ivan suspended. It is bush league that the sports reporters in this town have told us basically nothing.
_________________________
Right, but we’re not in a “major” city–at least not in terms of knowing how to handle such matters professionally.
vava74
April 16th, 2012
10:48 am
Ed Davis is 6′10”
J Johnson is 6′9”
A Johnson is a long 6′9”
Gray is 7′0”
Kleiza is a wide 6′8”
They had a bit more length on the floor than we did and that coped with better effort gave them the rebounding hedge.
I still insist that against this type of opposition Zaza finishes the game with 10-13 rebounds easily.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
10:50 am
Nice job on your assessment of “Hawks mngt,” High-Sider. Only one I seriously disagree with is getting rid of WOODSON. Yes, he elevated the team from the depths of the league to the playoffs, but he clearly showed he COULD NOT GET IT DONE IN THE PLAYOFFS. That is a barrier ATL teams must overcome to if they ever seriously want to earn credibility or even sniff a championship.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
10:53 am
Hawks Fan Down Under
April 15th, 2012
11:48 pm
So tragically predictable. As soon as they give you reason for genuine hope they turn in a complete garbage performance like this. No way they are winning a 7 game series this year!
My prediction is they lose in the first round but Drew returns for another season as the team exercise their option. Tragically predictable.
_________________________
“Tragically predictable.” Well summarized in a mere two words.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
10:56 am
beone
April 15th, 2012
11:54 pm
Pathetic, just blow it up and start over. How can there be any thoughts of doing otherwise?
______________________
They’ve shown us how for four and a half decades.
Patrick
April 16th, 2012
10:57 am
I noticed Orlando and Atlanta are both 35-25.
Atlanta owns tiebreaker (3-0) head to head.
Orlando clinched playoff spot over because if even if they finish 35-31 and Milwaukee wins all their games and finishes 35-31 Orlando wins tiebreaker (4-0) head to head.
The worst atlanta can finish is 35-31 but they have a 2-1 head to head record over milwaukee this season.
So why are they saying atlanta has failed to clinch A spot with last nights loss? How can Milwaukee still catch them if they haven’t beat them in head to head matchups?
doc
April 16th, 2012
10:59 am
dawgnole, earlier in the season i said this team was “predictably unpredictable” and they are continuing that trend just when hyou think they are getting over it. this statement by najeh reflects on this and why it is so painful to be a hawk fan and not see the type of guy who can step up and cover besides josh who by his current game is not ab;e to take on a double team or zone defense which are critical to our success in the playoffs. he wants it but isnt capable yet on his on.
jj doesnt want it by his actions and every comment. it is so sad to hear the 20 mil man not accept responsibility but that starts at the top which i said earlier in my comments about the basg. they never take responsibility for anything.
doc
April 16th, 2012
11:00 am
loved this from najeh:
They shot themselves in the foot in both losses with self-inflicted stupidity and give me little confidence that they can overcome this self-inflicted stupidity, but Boston isn’t that much worse of a matchup than Indiana.
why go to the playoffs to experience such pain? self inflicted pain at that.
vava74
April 16th, 2012
11:03 am
All teams have let down losses from time to time.
This year the Hawks only lost 5 games against sub .500 teams. That’s a vast improvement with regard to last year.
And tonight we will see if yesterday was an aberration or if they are mailing it again as they did last year.
And honestly, WTF hasn’t Dampier played a single minute for the past month? When he came in he gave us a few decent minutes.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
11:06 am
Bravesfan79
April 16th, 2012
1:56 am
Actually i dont mind the loss, and wouldnt mind if we lost tomorrow night as well!
__________________________
That’s exactly the problem with the pro teams in this town.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
11:11 am
Buddy Grizzard
April 16th, 2012
3:50 am
Just noticed we have the same record as Indiana. Hawks should tank the rest of the way to try to drop to 6th and draw Indiana.
____________________
It’s all a part of the ATL mentality. What they SHOULD do is win (not tank) the rest of the way and take home a championship. When you accept losing and, in this case, actually recommend losing, you become what ATL has become: “Losersville.”
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
11:14 am
Tootsi
April 15th, 2012
10:47 pm
Pathetic loss. Probably costs us home court in the 1st round.
______________________
Maybe not so much of a loss–considering the home court “atmosphere” at Phillips.
IlliniDawg
April 16th, 2012
11:17 am
“I think some of us was [sic] ready and some of us wasn’t [sic]”
I know Joe Johnson doesn’t get paid to be an English teacher, but part of the Hawks problem is that this guy is simply dumber than rocks. It’s no wonder the only damn offensive set he understand is an isolation play. And it seems like some of the other guys on the team are similarly intellectually challenged.
That’s why Charles Barkely, no Ivy-league intellect himself, has said on a number of occasions, “the Hawks are one of the dumbest teams in the NBA.” Kobe wouldn’t stand for this. Nor would KG. Nor CP3. But for some reason the Hawks coaching staff has let this team get away with being basketball idiots for too long.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
11:18 am
Johnny
April 16th, 2012
5:29 am
Seriously why would any Hawk Fan be mad that we lost tonight.
__________________
“You play to WIN the game.” Right? Why would any Hawk Fan NOT be mad that we lost? It’s a LOSS. DUH!
Losersville.
doc
April 16th, 2012
11:21 am
look at what they are saying in ny about letting anthony go it alone:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/16/sports/basketball/letting-carmelo-anthony-go-it-alone-may-not-help-knicks.html?_r=1&ref=sports
man do they have something to learn about woody ball.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
11:23 am
vava74
April 16th, 2012
6:31 am
Also, you can’t discount – AT ALL – the fact that we played without Zaza since Zaza not only is our enforcer, he is also a guy who nowadays sets the tone from tip off.
_______________________
Cmon, vava, you’re making excuses. That’s what losers do, and you’re better than that. Consistent winners don’t play like the Hawks did last night. Period.
vava74
April 16th, 2012
11:28 am
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
11:23 am
All teams have let down losses. ALL.
If we lose again tonight, I will say that you are right, but a one game slip up is not enough to throw everyone under the bus.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
11:32 am
Big Lou
April 16th, 2012
9:33 am
“I just read all the comments, and not 1 person said anything about playoff matchups! So yall would rather play Boston then Indiana?? And even if u win that u get Chicago. Are you serious??”
As Grandmaster JeJe and DawgNole would say, comments like these are why ATL is called Loserville. Fans pray for other teams because the Hawks suck so bad. Real NBA teams preform and try to win, no matter the opponent.
I’d rather them play a good team and somehow finally ‘get it’ during the process, or get blown the heck out so they can finally blow up the core/fire coaches/get new owners. To be honest, I hope for the latter.
________________
You’ve nailed it there, BL.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
11:35 am
Astro Joe
April 16th, 2012
10:13 am
BTW, Dwayne Casey doesn’t seem like a head coach who has to discuss “effort & energy” with his team. Team is in the final days of a losing season and they are playing with pride, honor and effort. Wow.
___________________________
“Pride, honor, and effort.” We need a healthy dose of all three with this team.
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
11:41 am
vava74
April 16th, 2012
11:28 am
DawgNole
April 16th, 2012
11:23 am
All teams have let down losses. ALL.
If we lose again tonight, I will say that you are right, but a one game slip up is not enough to throw everyone under the bus.
_______________________
But it’s NOT a one-game slip-up. It’s a 45-year slip-up, and that has been my contention all along.
High-sider
April 16th, 2012
11:53 am
“…great rundown high sider as it brought chills…” – doc @8;47am
“Nice job on your assessment of “Hawks mngt,” High-Sider….” – DawgNole @10:50am
Thanks for compliment.
Rod from College Park
April 16th, 2012
11:54 am
It won’t be long now. The playoffs are coming. Get ready. It will all be told in the playoffs.
High-sider
April 16th, 2012
11:54 am
^should be…”Thanks for the compliments.”
doc
April 16th, 2012
12:01 pm
high sider, i am not a judge of anyone’s typing, spelling or grammer skills here or anywhere else. honestly, i didnt pay that close attention to it. those dont make a man smart only think he is. some of the smartest folks i know cant do any of the three and are quite healthy wealthy and wise. some of that stuff is for the pseudo-smart.
vava74
April 16th, 2012
12:06 pm
Rod,
Contrary to your yearnings, the absence of Horford – regardless of his subpar performances in the playoffs – does not allow to extract any complete conclusions of what this team would and would not be able to do.
Without Horford and with LD on the bench, we are not in position to know.
So: Hawks poor playoff showing does not equate to “Hawks missing Crawford” BUT funny enough, the contrary would: a good showing (highly unlikely) would constitute a decent indication that the improved D which Crawford’s absence allows would be a factor.
Heisenberg
April 16th, 2012
12:15 pm
I got 1 foot on the Hawks bandwagon and every time I think I am ready for the other foot, they lay one of these eggs. Oh well at least they are not the Magic.
pointguardslim
April 16th, 2012
12:23 pm
Barkley said the Hawks are one of the softest.
Bench Kirk’s cornbread butt for Ivan. Move Joe back to SG. He’s too soft for SF. Move Josh to SF, he’s too soft and small for PF (vs KG, Bosh, Pau).
And get Zaza back.
Wendy
April 16th, 2012
12:24 pm
Completely agree that Kirk played pretty poorly overall last night, along with most of the team. But as far as getting blamed for most of DeRozan’s night, DeRozan was only 3 of 8 while Kirk was in the game, with 5 free throw attempts. Only one of those was on a Kirk foul, but in the interest of argument we’ll blame him for the others as well. 10 points, 1 assist, 1 rebound, on 3 of 8 shooting. Kirk was at least chasing him around screens and getting a hand up.
DeRozan scored his other 13 points, shooting 5 of 7 with 6 free throw attempts, when Kirk was on the bench. 13 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 TO, on 5 of 7 shooting.
pointguardslim
April 16th, 2012
12:25 pm
soft, not stupid.
If Iguodala played PF with Kirk Hinrich starting at SF/SG I bet the 76ers would look stupid too.
If Pierce played PF with Kirk Hinrich starting at SF/SG I bet the 76ers would look stupid too.
If Smith played PF with Kirk,Marvin starting at SF/SG I bet the 76ers would look stupid too.
Heisenberg
April 16th, 2012
12:28 pm
Josh playing the 3? As in standing around the arch and launching rainbow jumpers?
High-sider
April 16th, 2012
12:29 pm
I hear ya, doc. I’m somewhat of a perfectionist when it comes to some things. I have an intense desire for accuracy.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
April 16th, 2012
12:30 pm
SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BE FIRED
SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BE TRADED
WE CAN’T GO THROUGH THE SAME STUFF EVERY YEAR
SHAKE THINGS UP
DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
doc
April 16th, 2012
12:46 pm
no prob hs, different strokes for different folks. as a surgeon, i lived a world of perfection even if it was god’s will. i didnt hesitate to get that right and reviewed things three or four times if necesary. now, i pick my spots as enough is enough.
Cwebb
April 16th, 2012
12:57 pm
Illinidawg,
C’est tout aussi stupide de ta part de faire une faute d’orthographe alors que tu juges l’intelligence d’un homme sur sa grammaire.