Atlanta Hawks: On playoff seeding
Judging by the persistent questions from Tweeps, it seems there is some confusion about what happens if the No. 5 seed in the East finishes with a better record than the No. 4 seed. This is possible because division winners can finish no worse than No. 4. This season the No. 5 seed could very well have a better record than the Atlantic winner. It’s why the Hawks remain behind the Celtics (and before that, the Sixers) in the standings even though they have the better record, which only adds to the confusion.
I’ve maintained all along that the Hawks would get home-court advantage if that’s the way they finish but the questions persist. So, to put it to rest once and for all, I e-mailed NBA spokesman Tim Frank. His reply:
“Better record always gets home court.”
There it is, plainly stated. The Hawks would get home-court advantage as the No. 5 seed if their record is better than a division winner with a worst record. As it stands now, that means the Hawks would play host to the Celtics in the first round even though the Celtics would have the better seed.
You might ask why reward a division winner the No. 4 seed if it doesn’t get home-court advantage anyway. In practice, it assures that a division winner will face an opponent with no better than the fourth-best record in the conference. Normally that’s not relevant but it can be in a season like this, the best Atlantic teams are bunched together
with so-so records.
Besides, as Josh Smith wryly noted the other day when the topic came up: “They get to hang up a banner.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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407 comments Add your comment
doc
April 10th, 2012
2:59 pm
with all the photo brushing going on pictures dont mean anything anymore dmb.
oh my, can hum it but cant remember who sang it. dionne warwick got to be it baby.
summertime? who didnt sing it
who wrote it? real old school if you get yhat one.
doc
April 10th, 2012
3:01 pm
whoever sings summertime better be baritone bass
northcyde
April 10th, 2012
3:10 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
April 10th, 2012
9:40 am
Kenneth Faried yesterday: 24 minutes, 27 points, 17 boards, 2 steals, 1 block, 12/18 shooting, +33.
Jordan Crawford yesterday: 21 minutes, 20 points, 2 boards, 3 dimes, 5/5 FT, 7/12 shooting, +14.
Seriously, when is the last time Kirk scored 20 points in a game?
Lang Greene from Hoopsworld thinks Rick Sund is an Executive of the Year candidate. LMFAOROFLOLSMGDMFHFFSKTCBBQSECFBICIANSAFCCAJC
********************
It’s depressing as hell Najeh. The ownership group is so obsessed with staying under the luxury tax at all costs and saving every dollar they can, that they don’t even see things long term.
But they go over it this year a little bit, to keep JERRY STACKHOUSE? Just clueless as hell.
With the way Faried plays, he could’ve made the potential loss of Horford or Smith less toxic to endure ( seeing that it may be inevitable that we’ll have to part with at least one of those guys ). He would’ve given the Hawks exactly what we need . . a tenacious rebounder ( especially on the offensive boards ). Faried currently has a 22.2 PER, which would be TOPS on the Hawks.
And don’t even get me started on Jordan Crawford. I’ve always thought if given the choice between Jordan and Teague, I’d take Jordan all day. Jordan is, and always has been, a baller. And he was young enough for a good coach to reign him in as an unconscious gunner. So to think that we could’ve had BOTH of these young guys on the team, that also could’ve made Joe Johnson expendible . . if we decided to do a salary dump with him, and just rolled with Horford – Faried – Smith – Jordan – Teague as the “new core”.
As much as I hate the thought of Josh Smith playing SF, you could actually get away with him doing it, if you had very good rebounders like Horford and Faried on the offensive boards.
Instead, we’re locked in a world in which we’ll have to recycle 4 – 6 veteran minimum guys every year and expect big contributions from them, just to field a team, with little hope of guys playing well over their heads.
Can’t depend on Vlad to be consistent. Can’t depend on Stackhouse. Can’t depend on Dampier. Sure in the hell can’t depend on Collins. Can’t depend on T-Mac either, because of his fragile nature and the coach being scared to play him. At least Pargo and Green gives us SOMETHING and possibly play over their heads on a few occasions.
2012 – 13 salaries:
Teague – 2.43 mill
Johnson – 19.75 mill
Marvin – 8.29 mill
Smith – 13.2 mill
Horford – 12 mill
Zaza – 5.25 mill
Jordan – 1.19 mill
Faried – 1.35 mill
8 players . . . approx 63.46 million
That would be 8 legit players under payroll, with damn near 7 million to field the rest of the roster ( minimum of 5 spots . . with one of them being a 2012 1st round draft pick ). And funny how NBAdraft.net has us drafting Terrance Jones, whom they describe as “Marvin Williams”. But that would be Marvin without the 8 million dollar a year tag.
Sund as Executive of the Year . . . GTFOH with that mess. He gets props for the Willie Green and Jannero Pargo signings, as well as snatching up Ivan Johnson when most people were still overlooking him. Sund is a minimalistic GM, as well as this ownership group being minimalistic.
You don’t get Executive of the Year votes by doing the bare minimum and afraid to make a big time move.
O'brien
April 10th, 2012
3:19 pm
If you’re Utah, and you already have Al Jefferson, and the young center they just drafted, why would you want Al Horford?
northcyde
April 10th, 2012
3:25 pm
I mean damn, as good as people think the Hawks bench is now, how good would they be if we could throw an energetic group at teams like this
Pargo
Jordan
Marvin
Faried
Ivan
Depending of if he’s hot or not, you could sub out either Pargo or Jordan for Willie Green. If Pargo is cold, move Jordan to the point and play Green at the 2. If Jordan is cold, sub him for Green.
These guys gotta realize that with JJ’s enormous contract, combined with the big contract of Horford, and the close to max contract that Smith may demand next summer . . that the Hawks MUST find some young guy that can begin to replace the production of a starter during his rookie contract.
You can’t just keep trotting out all of these old guys and expect them to get it done, especially the big old guys.
*************
Seeing MC’s tweet about the Hawks not fielding a summer league team yet. Of course they won’t. They don’t value ( or don’t know how to evaluate ) young talent anyway.
doc
April 10th, 2012
3:25 pm
to have another power forward o’b?
doc
April 10th, 2012
3:30 pm
yup my bad on jc2 if he can translate into a winning ball player. however, as far as i am concerned he was the first to be involved in how fragile the ego of the queen is when he dunked over him in a camp and his handlers grabbed the video to keep it off the air.
speaking of fragility in that department along with body you got to say it is hands down tmac.
pointguardslim
April 10th, 2012
3:39 pm
Thank you Najeh Davenpoop for this post.
******
“Boston is a matchup nightmare for the Hawks. I want nothing to do with that team in the 1st round”
Not if the Hawks go with a big lineup.
With the current lineup, KG can neutralize Josh and Joe will be matched on Pierce who he can’t post up very easily.
With a bigger lineup, KG will have no choice but to guard Zaza who will annoy him, Ivan and Bass will neutralize each other, and Josh will be able to post up Pierce. If KG insists on guarding Josh even when he plays SF, that means the Hawks will have a matchup advantage somewhere else.
—–
Heads up to northcyde,
A) Ray Allen is not starting anymore. Avery Bradley dude.
B) Garnett covers Josh Smith and Bass covered Pachulia (if you actually watched last meeting)
PG: Rondo vs Teague . . . . IQ advantage Rondo, but you never know if we go big the floor shrinks for Rondo and he has to shoot jumpers. While Teague can still be very effective,
G: Bradley vs Johnson . . . 6′8, 235lbs, $20 million. Go to Work.
F: Pierce vs Smith. . . slight advantage Smith, with Smith size, defense & athleticism, Pierce will be winded.
PF: Bass vs Ivan . . . could go either way, but
C: Garnett vs Zaza . . . advantage MIGHT go to Garnett, but he isn’t comfy being the center or scoring big numbers anymore.
6th man and bench: Kirk, Marvin, etc vs. Ray Allen, Pietrus…. like to think advantage is Hawks as Allen is still adjusting his routing to come off the bench.
*****
That;s the lineup we use. As great a guy as I once thought you were northcyde, I don’t see much use in trumpeting fear and giving all the advantages to Boston (ie using the regular season lineup vs Boston).
*********
There is no way in HADES that a washed up Celtics should beat the Hawks if they use the obvious lineup. No one in their right mind just hands the advantage to Paul Pierce. In the regular series we were worried about injuries, but in a playoff series Hawks go all out and deploy the big lineup.
Jeff, *Joe*, *Smith* – vs – Rondo, Avery, Pierce
Ivan, Pachulia – vs – Bass, Garnett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuklWpNBhE0
MsDee
April 10th, 2012
3:43 pm
Northcyde
“You don’t get Executive of the Year votes by doing the bare minimum and afraid to make a big time move.”
Well, ummm, YES A CAN if we could finish the regular season off at seed #3, get to and pass 2nd round with the team of players HE signed, while paying a coach little to nothing, with injuries galore WHILE being the ONLY team to have beaten not 1, not 2, but 3 of the best top teams in the league..I SAY HE HAS A DARN GOOD CHANCE MY FRIEND, A DARN GOOD CHANCE!!
MsDee
April 10th, 2012
3:46 pm
Northcyde, not saying he made a SMART move, but none the less, he made a risky move that MAY have worked which is still “in progress”.
Big Lou
April 10th, 2012
3:46 pm
Whitney Houston information is truly enlightening…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUH8eZEWCa8&feature=related
Illuminati is real whether you like it or not. Underground rappers know the truth…
This is a good song with Hopsin and SwizZz rapping against each other; Hopsin playing Lucifer.
Slimjr
April 10th, 2012
3:48 pm
“It’s depressing as hell Najeh. The ownership group is so obsessed with staying under the luxury tax at all costs and saving every dollar they can, that they don’t even see things long term.
But they go over it this year a little bit, to keep JERRY STACKHOUSE? Just clueless as hell.”
Look out northcyde, you keep this up your going to be labeled a “WHINNER” too! LMAO!!
BTW, Your a winner in my book!
iceBIRDcold12
April 10th, 2012
3:49 pm
DawgNole:
I agree with you on the guard play for the Hawks.
ZaZa needs to dunk more to create some space and quit trying to be George Gervin with the finger roll.
Ivan can be a beast when he decides to stay in his range from the free throw line in.
Josh is the only viable inside threat which is good until he gets into foul trouble. Soon after that is when teams make their run on both ends.
Joe can post but he would rather shoot the threeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Sautee
April 10th, 2012
3:52 pm
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 9th, 2012
10:21 pm
IMO, maybe they should look at this:
Hawks record vs. sub-.500 teams: 22-3
Perception is not reality.
***
“you nees to dig deeper. I assure you not one team in playoff conention is afraid of the Hawks in a series. And many of those games vs abysmal teams were way too close (causing Joe and Josh to play way too many mins)”
Jeje, my post was in response to a post that claimed that the sub -.500 teams didn’t fear the Hawks. Never was anything mentioned regarding the teams in playoff contention.
northcyde
April 10th, 2012
3:54 pm
I always laugh when people try to point out when they THINK I’m wrong. When the game goes down to the wire, who in the hell do you think will be in the game? Avery Bradley or Ray Allen?
The main reason why Bradley is starting, is because Doc wants more scoring punch off the bench in Allen. And depending on who they play, both KG and Bass can alternate who they guard on the frontline.
But don’t get it twisted, when that game gets tight, Ray Allen WILL be in the game. If Pietrus wasn’t hurt, Bradley wouldn’t even be starting.
In the last game vs the Hawks, the Celtics went with the lineup that I put out there
Rondo
Allen
Pierce
Bass
Garnett
So save all of that backtalk for somebody who not only watches the Hawks, but watches the entire league as well.
Big Lou
April 10th, 2012
3:59 pm
Grandmaster JeJe timeline:
“Amen. This guy assumes we have no lives because we have strong opinions about the state of the franchise. I am not someone who posts here 30 times EVERY day like others do. I post here sometimes on weekends and some weeknights. You have no basis for your argument that we have no lives.”
April 8th 8:35pm
If you think we are negative all the time, why do you point it out every time DawgNole and I post? Just go away. This is a free country. Real fans aren’t going to change their beliefs of this team. Real fans know our front office is a joke group of losers and we WILL consistently point it out because some of us ACTUALLY WANT TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.
Thank God I won’t be posting here for a few days.
_______________
The next day(still talking crap)….
“Yeah I said I was going to comment on your blog which no one comments on. Too bad you didn’t see that message.”
Talking to Buddy Grizzard.
___________
The next day in the morning(What happened to being off a couple days?)….
“not really. Josh will take his mandatory jumpshots no matter what position he plays, no matter who is guarding him”
____________
Yup. Same ole crap. Same ole negative nonsense. Yet, at least you proved my point. See you tomorrow night, where if they win… you will probably be talking about them not being able to win a seven game series or some crap. Whatever man.
Oh, and let’s see if you boyfriend will resist the urge to defend you. Probably not…
pointguardslim
April 10th, 2012
4:00 pm
Bradley is starting because Allen was injured. Northcyde that has nothing to do with the solution.
I don’t see why you list the gameplan as Hinrich vs Allen… Even so it would be
Rondo counter Teague
Allen counter Johnson
Pierce counter Smith
Bass counter I. Johnson
Garnett counter Pachulia
Why allow that the game gets tight? Why not blow them out?
Slimjr
April 10th, 2012
4:06 pm
Josh was also defended by KG last time and became ineffective…
He couldn’t by a set shot from Kmart..
pointguardslim
April 10th, 2012
4:12 pm
And also to GMJ and northcyde
Josh at SF means he gets way less touches in the halfcourt. The motion offense entries to the PF or C at the top of the key… meaning Zaza and Ivan.
Hawks identity should become this type of team. A team that plays defense ugly and suffocates the other team with clogging the lanes.
The volume jumpshots are a function of playing the 4 position. I rather take Josh’s defense and our suffocating defensive ability in the big lineups and I consider Ivan at the top of the key a plus.
Lets Josh focus on other things. Like this. Cant wait to see him in his sleeker form + JJ + Teague in the backcourt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igvf4F_oFj4
Sautee
April 10th, 2012
4:15 pm
“Between Faried and Ivan the Hawks would have more than enough big man depth to battle Chicago.”
Najeh, I’m not sure Ivan makes the team if Faried were here. Remember that even without another big, Sund was “happy with the bigs we have”. If Faried were here, I’m betting that Ivan gets cut.
That’s just how the Hawks roll. UGH. Now I’m nauseous.
Slimjr
April 10th, 2012
4:20 pm
b-u-y^^^
Rod from College Park
April 10th, 2012
4:34 pm
How about them Braves. LOL
Slimjr
April 10th, 2012
4:49 pm
Larry is playing tonight…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Rod from College Park
April 10th, 2012
4:58 pm
“Larry is playing tonight…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz”
Dude has not done anything relevant since that Met series about 10 years ago. Atlanta Braves fans love him though. Guess I’d be one of those Haters for calling him out also.
Uwe Blab
April 10th, 2012
5:05 pm
You know who’s having a pretty good season? Zaza Pachulia. Get the guy on the floor and he plays. Teague and Pachulia are evidence both Woody and now Drew aren’t all that smart. Although I think Drew learns from his mistakes.
Slimjr
April 10th, 2012
5:19 pm
They better get Cox back in there asap.. Last time they lost the first 4 games in a row (1988), the Braves went on to lose over a hundred stinking games…
Counting last season ending meltdown they have lost 11 in a row..Abandon Ship! Repeat Abandon Ship! This is not a drill!
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 10th, 2012
5:19 pm
Whatup Rod?
Welcome to the negative-minded WHINNERS club. FYI, this makes you an ANAL-MINDED MORON too.
ROTFLMAOLOL @ Sund as Executive of the year in this weakazz Eastern Conference. Dude has done nothing to this franchise in his 4 years, including this year and he deserves it? He screwed us over with the Hinrich trade and signed 2 decent PGs. That’s it
IDK who should win it, but his smug azz doesn’t deserve jack. He signed COLLINS, DAMPIER, AND T-MAC. These 3 guys are virtually useless. 2 of them are in the top 10 for worst players in the NBA.
SMH
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 10th, 2012
5:20 pm
Najeh
“Yeah, but the point is if you go with a big lineup either Joe or Josh will have a favorable matchup in the post and thus Josh probably isn’t going to take as many of them [jumpshots].”
Good point, but what you are forgetting is Josh, albeit ultra-talented, is extremely UNDISCIPLINED and ***WILL TAKE THE JUMPSHOT*** if given the opportunity. I do not trust his decision-making one bit, even if he is an All-NBA Candidate. Also, you better hope he is driving to the basket if playing the 3 and not languishing around the 3 point line.
DawgNole
April 10th, 2012
5:32 pm
Big Lou Timeline:
Big Lou
April 9th, 2012
11:57 am
“Well gents, it’s been fun. I’ll catch y’all Wednesday night. Let’s hope ATL benifits off a BOS back-to-back. Be blessed.”
Today (What happened to being off until Wednesday night?):
Big Lou
April 10th, 2012
3:46 pm
Whitney Houston information is truly enlightening…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUH8eZEWCa8&feature=related
________________________
Cmon, Big Lou. There you go taking JeJe to task for aborting his absence from the blog–and you just did the same thing. Thought you were gonna give us a break til Wednesday night? What are you doing back on here Tuesday? And remember, it’s not negativity; it’s reality.
“Why can’t we all just get along?”
Rufus1
April 10th, 2012
5:35 pm
Better Coach… LD vs Collins…
The Sixers may miss the playoffs and the Hawks could end with the 3rd seed….WOW!…And the Hawks are missing an Allstar player.
LD has gotten his players to fight all year and Collins players are quitting on him…WOW!
Good coaches WIN…That is all that matters.
ISO gone
Offensive focus shifted to the post
Marvin to the 6th man
Half time adjustments
DawgNole
April 10th, 2012
5:40 pm
Rod from College Park
April 10th, 2012
4:34 pm
How about them Braves. LOL
__________________
They’re doing their part to help validate Najeh’s contention that the Hawks are ATL’s “best team.” I don’t think the Dream count (based on attendance).
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
April 10th, 2012
5:42 pm
Lol @ Big Lou. I assure you I am busier than your old grumpy azz is. Go find a hobby
DawgNole
April 10th, 2012
5:42 pm
Rufus1
April 10th, 2012
5:35 pm
Good coaches WIN…That is all that matters.
__________________
Mostly true, except that good coaches win WHEN IT REALLY COUNTS (i.e., playoffs).
SteveW
April 10th, 2012
5:43 pm
OB – Jefferson and Millsap each only have 1 more year on their contract. Al is signed long term, is young, and thought to have a reasonable contract. So Al could fit into Utahs plans in various ways. I mean, they already have Favors, so an Al for Favors would both be a trade for bigs.
So they might, I don’t know.
DawgNole
April 10th, 2012
5:46 pm
iceBIRDcold12
April 10th, 2012
3:49 pm
DawgNole:
I agree with you on the guard play for the Hawks. ZaZa needs to dunk more to create some space and quit trying to be George Gervin with the finger roll. Ivan can be a beast when he decides to stay in his range from the free throw line in.
Josh is the only viable inside threat which is good until he gets into foul trouble. Soon after that is when teams make their run on both ends.
Joe can post but he would rather shoot the threeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
___________________
Have to admit I don’t recall discussing the Hawks’ guard play, but I do agree with your observations–and I’m glad we can agree on something.
SteveW
April 10th, 2012
5:51 pm
All I know is looking at the Hawks cap situation, there aversion to paying the Tax, that somebody is gonna go in the near future. We’ve got 3 FA’s to sign after next season, and all are going to require substantial commitments.
And for those thinking we’re going to get Zaza for 6 mill. A
a year remember: Kwame Brown signed for 7 million this season.
Zaza is better than Kwame. And teams need Bigs.
pointguardslim
April 10th, 2012
6:10 pm
GJM Joe vs Bradley becomes the #1 option and gets a lot of the points. Then Teague can attack off the ball.
Josh at the PF is to pump up his shot attempts. He takes jumpers because he cant get to the rim and he also cant win by just letting the shot run out.
But even if you think he’d get the high # of shot attempts he gets…
would you rather have Josh take a jumpshot and
A) have Zaza crashing the glass
Or
B) have Ivan AND Zaza crashing the glass, also Joe Johnson has size advantage for some tip outs
Clearly the answer is B. For go *Big.
Astro Joe
April 10th, 2012
6:42 pm
Maybe JC2 in addition to Joe, but not likely instead of (unless we’re talking fantasy hoops). Mary, I ain’t mad at Janet.
Buddy Grizzard
April 10th, 2012
7:49 pm
“Better Coach… LD vs Collins…”
I’ll admit I touted Collins early in the season when they were winning. And there is no question among serious observers that Collins is elite with x’s and o’s. But the 76ers are turning on each other with Iguodala telling si.com that Lou Williams “can’t guard anybody,” so their problems go beyond Collins.
It appears that LD is succeeding at personality mgmt while Collins is failing, and that may be more important than x’s and o’s.
Melvin
April 10th, 2012
8:13 pm
Give Mark Cuban some credit. He prefers to pay Lamar Odom to stay home then to waive him and see him play for another team….LOL…. ASG would have cut a deal to save a dollar….LOL
SteveW
April 10th, 2012
8:22 pm
Does Boston just have Miami’s number? They really beat Miami pretty good the other nite.
Now tonite, LeBron is 7-10 shooting or something, DWade is 6-11, yet Miami is down by 8 at the half. At Home.
Boston has been playing great for the most part lately.
SteveW
April 10th, 2012
8:25 pm
I hate to talk about next season already, but I wonder if Josh still wants to get traded? Or have we talked him into re-signing, or are making a significant effort to?
If we gotta trade Josh, things get dicey. I just don’t know how you get equal value for him, at the same time helping the cap. Trading him for a Top 5 lottery pick?
Trade he and ZaZa for Al Jefferson if the Jazz would do it, if Jefferson would agree to a new contract with us?
Just don’t know.
@pcnitai
April 10th, 2012
8:27 pm
I definitively think the Hawks will have home court in the first round, either at the 3rd or 5th seed and I think they will win their first round series. Whats more intriguing to me is who would we rather play in the 2nd round, Miami or Chicago? I would personally prefer to play Chicago over Miami, so i think the 5th seed is the best for the Hawks.
SteveW
April 10th, 2012
8:29 pm
And I know Jefferson for Josh and ZaZa is not equal value. But both are FA’s. So if you can sign Jefferson for about 16 mill per year, you save some money on cap space with what you would have to pay ZaZa and Josh to re-sign them.
And maybe still compete with a core 4 of JJ, Al, Jefferson, and Teague. 2 G’s and 2 Bigs. And draft around them, and sign FA’s.
Trade JJ? Who would take him?
Marvin? Good idea. Easier said than done maybe.
Al – Ok – sounds good. Any ideas?
bigdave
April 10th, 2012
8:50 pm
how does lebron take Marta to the hoop and get to the line?
Melvin
April 10th, 2012
8:56 pm
Stevew,
I’m sure Astro Joe would find a Josh Smith trade…LOL
Grandad
April 10th, 2012
9:00 pm
I would prefer Mark Cuban owning the Hawks
and running our Hawks as his Eastern conf. minor league team,
rather than our current bunch 0` parsimonious dullards.
____________________________________________
Roster + Cap management = Forward Thinking (Red Auerbach; 101)
Josh Smith & Al Horford
-for-
The # 1 overall pick in the 2012 NBA draft.
Just like Red did to us in 1956
Antnony Davis = Bill Russell / the comparisons have already been made !
Grandad
April 10th, 2012
9:03 pm
Whooooo Pig Sooooie !
Najeh Davenpoop
April 10th, 2012
9:04 pm
Bad day for the Hawks with both Boston and Philly on their way to wins. If Boston wins today and the Hawks lose to them tomorrow, Boston will be tied with the Hawks in the standings and would have home court advantage due to the tiebreaker.
Grandad
April 10th, 2012
9:07 pm
Motorsicles & infidelity don`t mix !