Atlanta Hawks: On playoff seeding
Judging by the persistent questions from Tweeps, it seems there is some confusion about what happens if the No. 5 seed in the East finishes with a better record than the No. 4 seed. This is possible because division winners can finish no worse than No. 4. This season the No. 5 seed could very well have a better record than the Atlantic winner. It’s why the Hawks remain behind the Celtics (and before that, the Sixers) in the standings even though they have the better record, which only adds to the confusion.
I’ve maintained all along that the Hawks would get home-court advantage if that’s the way they finish but the questions persist. So, to put it to rest once and for all, I e-mailed NBA spokesman Tim Frank. His reply:
“Better record always gets home court.”
There it is, plainly stated. The Hawks would get home-court advantage as the No. 5 seed if their record is better than a division winner with a worst record. As it stands now, that means the Hawks would play host to the Celtics in the first round even though the Celtics would have the better seed.
You might ask why reward a division winner the No. 4 seed if it doesn’t get home-court advantage anyway. In practice, it assures that a division winner will face an opponent with no better than the fourth-best record in the conference. Normally that’s not relevant but it can be in a season like this, the best Atlantic teams are bunched together
with so-so records.
Besides, as Josh Smith wryly noted the other day when the topic came up: “They get to hang up a banner.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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407 comments Add your comment
NCBravesFan
April 9th, 2012
1:41 pm
Awesome – so TMac can turn it up in practice here in about two weeks, play his butt off in the playoffs and help the Hawks win!
doc
April 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
the last time you could call tmac a player was the 07-08 season. why think of him in those terms:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3179/career;_ylt=AuohCVKreQfAci.qo60q4DUtPKB4
his numbers are in serious decline and have nothing to do with larry drew. he was an albatross put around his neck to carry this season. last year on a very bad team 23 mpg and 8 ppg doesnt get it on a team that is contending for a playoff position. that is not close to what we need, an ex nbdler can do better as well as marvin in that role. sorry to tmac’s ego he is just not a player anymore and why should we suggest it is going to happen. i hear the fountain of youth is in st augustine fl. go there.
Slimjr
April 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
darrell staks
April 9th, 2012
1:10 pm
“No 1man is bigger than the band, THE MOVIE DRUMLINE.”
“GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Biggie Smalls would probably disagree…lol
46
doc
April 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
guys are you living in the year of 2012 or 2007? get over it.
look over his real numbers the last few years, pathetic. if we need him we are four and out in first series.
jeppz23
April 9th, 2012
1:56 pm
i think the best scenario for the hawks would be to get the 4th seed (Boston gets 3rd) and matchup with Indiana or Orlando in the 1st round. Assuming they get by, the would play the bulls, who i think they would have a pretty good chance to knock off w/ drose not at 100%
But to win in the playoffs, our lineup HAS to be
Teague, jj, josh, ivan, zaza…or else we’ll get crushed on the boards. And t-mac has to get 20-25 mins a game w/ the bench
Buddy Grizzard
April 9th, 2012
1:57 pm
April 9th, 2012
1:25 pm
Should the Hawks rest their starters the last 4 or 5 games, or push for Homecourt?
LinkReport this comment
No rest until the three seed is locked up. Hawks have had 3 days off twice just before the stretch run. LD has been riding Josh and Joe lately but he tried to keep their minutes down early in the season. Now we get to see if that pays off.
Slimjr
April 9th, 2012
1:57 pm
But doc we are only getting 9 and 7 avg in 39 playoff games from our so called very mechanical and very stiff ALLSTAR/All NBA. And he is in his prime? What is his excuse?
Maybe this is a new Hawk tradition? lol
Slimjr
April 9th, 2012
1:58 pm
Lose the Boards, lose the series in the 1st round….
northcyde
April 9th, 2012
2:00 pm
Boston is a matchup nightmare for the Hawks. I want nothing to do with that team in the 1st round
PG: Rondo vs Tegue . . . . advangage Rondo
G: Allen vs Hinrich . . . slight advantage Allen, seeing that Hinrich will get ran all over the place by Allen
F: Pierce vs Johnson . . . slight advantage Pierce, due to Pierce’s ability to score and get to the FT line
PF: Bass vs Smith . . . advantage Smith, but Garnett may guard Smith on the defensive end, nullifying Smith’s effectiveness
C: Garnett vs Zaza . . . advantage Garnett
Bench: advantage Hawks
********************
I personally want no part of a veteran team like the Celtics in the 1st round. Much rather take my chances with the dysfunctional Orlando Magic than the veteran Celtics.
Slimjr
April 9th, 2012
2:01 pm
A Boston series in the 1st round maybe a trap?
Astro Joe
April 9th, 2012
2:05 pm
Thanks doc. TMac signed a one-year, minimum salary contract NOT because he sooo wanted to play for the Hawks but because that is the going rate for a older vet who has continued health issues. So let’s not pretend that LD is denying Hawks fans the chance to watch an elite scorer in action or a guy who would have delivered 8-10 more victories.
Ra’mon, while practice may not be important for certain individual players, it is important to set the right tone for the TEAM. If you allow any player to get away with bad practice habits by rewarding that player with consistent playing time, that sends a message to the rest of the players (who may need to practice hard) that one has nothing to do with the other. LD isn’t managing one player, he is managing an organizational culture.
The biggest issue (IMO) is if TMac has historically poor practice habits and if LD wants/needs to establish a culture of hard work with every team activity… then why did they sign TMac in the first place? That is where you want the GM and head coach to be singing from the same song sheet.
I do expect TMac to be dusted off during the playoffs and I expect that he will be a key contributor. But I personally have no issue with the way LD managed him during the regular season.
jeppz23
April 9th, 2012
2:07 pm
supergirl is out with back spasms again!!
WE WANT THE TRAGIC.
northcyde
April 9th, 2012
2:10 pm
Interesting case made by peachtreehoops as to why Josh Smith should be an All-NBA selection. Unfortunately for Josh, the All-NBA teams aren’t necessarily selected by position. A SF will get the same consideration as the PF, because all they’re going to put on each team are 2 forwards. This is why Lebron James and Kevin Durant will both be 1st team All-NBA selections, despite both being SFs.
The All-NBA 2nd team fowards will probably be Kevin Love and Blake Griffin
This would put Josh against these guys for the final 2 forward spots.
- Lamarcus Aldridge
- Carmelo Anthony
- Andre Iguodala
- Rudy Gay
- Dirk Nowitzki
- Paul Pierce
- Pau Gasol
The Hawks get no love on the national stage, so Josh will be overlooked for that 3rd team All-NBA selection. The 2 national TV games at the end of the year could be huge for the national perception of him.
Astro Joe
April 9th, 2012
2:14 pm
northcyde, is being considered a top 6 forward as good as being considered a top 3 center? Horford was 3rd team All-NBA last year. I suspect being a top 6 will be considered the better honor by some around here.
O'Brien
April 9th, 2012
2:24 pm
I would rather T-Mac with bad practice habits over a Vlad with good practice habits.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 9th, 2012
2:25 pm
NO CLUE DREW!
“my educated guess is that it’s a kind of tug-o-war where LD wants to see T-Mac have better work habits… You mean head coaches may use practice habits to determine playing time in real games? Wow, that’s a crazy idea. ”
_________________
Mike Smith doesn’t make Tony Gonzalez practice in pads and heat, nor Abraham nor any of the other older veteran players.
Drew is so busy making sure everybody knows he is the HNIC, till he can’t tell the difference between his azz hole and his pie hole. This guy doesn’t have the slightest clue.
Drew can go find a sneaker and do the turtle hump!
Astro Joe
April 9th, 2012
2:33 pm
Mary, you do know that you compared TMac, who was never going to play more than 20 minutes every 2 games) to two starters, right? TMac is more like Kelvin Hayden than he is like Abe or TG (IMO).
Melvin
April 9th, 2012
2:34 pm
We this abbreviated and busy weekly schedule, do the Hawks even have time to practice?
Melvin
April 9th, 2012
2:34 pm
*With this… ^^^^^^^
northcyde
April 9th, 2012
2:34 pm
The same goes for JJ. They’re not going to simply take 3 PGs and 3 SGs. They’re going to select 6 guards, regardless of position. And somebody is going to be mad that they got left off.
POINT GUARDS
- Derrick Rose
- Russell Westbrook
- Chris Paul
- Deron Williams
- Tony Parker
SHOOTING GUARDS
- Dwyane Wade
- Kobe Bryant
- Joe Johnson
8 guys vying for 6 spots. To me, Russell Westbrook REALLY deserves to be a 1st Team All-NBA selection this year. But they’ll give it to Chris Paul and Kobe.
Rose and Wade will probably be 2nd team
And Russell will at least make 3rd team.
So who gets the last spot? Deron . . JJ . . or Tony Parker?
My vote would go to Parker, seeing that the Spurs could have the top record in the league at the end of the year. JJ has pretty much been lights out since he came back from the knee injury. And Deron has balled all year, despite playing on a horrible team. Tough decision, but I would go with Parker.
aytunstoppable
April 9th, 2012
2:34 pm
wow in that case i want us to finish in 3rd place but if we can have 5th place and still have home court then lets finish 5th. that way we can get chicago 2nd round. We can beat those boys.
aytunstoppable
April 9th, 2012
2:39 pm
northclyde i may be bias because i’m a hawks fan but your vote should go to jj. because guess what the spurs did this last year and still didn’t get out the first round. I know its mostly for the regular season but still the parker can’t even be up there if they can’t get out the second round this year. if they do then maybe him over jj but only then. and i guess we both agree with deron because deron plays for a terrible team and isn’t going to get many awards.
aytunstoppable
April 9th, 2012
2:40 pm
excuse me i meant get out of the first round.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 9th, 2012
2:41 pm
IF!
If anyone needs to practice, it’s “no clue drew”! He needs to practice his coaching. If I were TMac, I would give coach my left sneaker and tell him to do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DN1qCUndYw
Rod from College Park
April 9th, 2012
2:43 pm
“I would rather T-Mac with bad practice habits over a Vlad with good practice habits.”
Cosign. Marvin must be playing like Scottie Pippen in practice to have been a starter for the last 5 years. Cause he damn sure does nothing in the games.
northcyde
April 9th, 2012
2:44 pm
Astro Joe
April 9th, 2012
2:14 pm
northcyde, is being considered a top 6 forward as good as being considered a top 3 center? Horford was 3rd team All-NBA last year. I suspect being a top 6 will be considered the better honor by some around here.
*****************************
IF Josh was to get a 3rd team selection, that would be some big time people he beat out. So I could see how some would value Josh as a 3rd teamer as the bigger accomplishment, than Horford as a 3rd team center.
If Horford put up the same numbers this year that he did last year, I’m not so sure he’d make an All-NBA team either. Howard and Bynum are locks. Al Jefferson would have to get big time consideration for that 3rd center spot, along with Marc Gasol and Marcin Gortat.
SteveW
April 9th, 2012
2:48 pm
Glad we’re 34-23. Blown away by it really with Al out, TMac barely contributing, and the other injuries we’ve had.
3rd seed? I like it – hope we get it.
Playoffs – Wide open to me. I didn’t see the Mavs winning at all last season. We may have another darkhorse (pun intended) this season.
Miami is the team to beat however – but I hope somebody does.
Can we re-sign Josh is the question – and after that, can we re-sign ZaZa. It’s going to take 20 million per to sign them both I would guess. And with JJ making 20+ mill in the future, Al making 12 mill, and Teague making maybe a Conley type contract (wasn’t his 5mill, 6, 7, then 8 or something like that?) – and still having Marvin for 2 more years – the numbers are looking kinda grim as Larry used to say.
northcyde
April 9th, 2012
2:49 pm
Rod from College Park
April 9th, 2012
2:43 pm
“I would rather T-Mac with bad practice habits over a Vlad with good practice habits.”
Cosign. Marvin must be playing like Scottie Pippen in practice to have been a starter for the last 5 years. Cause he damn sure does nothing in the games.
*****************************
Marvin in April
13.3 ppg – 65% FG – 75% 3FG . . in just under 24 minutes
Jamal Crawford in April
11 ppg – 35% FG – 25% 3FG . . . in just over 25 minutes
Marvin > Jamal
SteveW
April 9th, 2012
2:50 pm
If All Nba comes back and plays C, I think that Greg Monroe may have taken his spot as Dwight’s backup in the All Star games and in All NBA selection
High-sider
April 9th, 2012
2:52 pm
The best case [seeding/positioning] scenario for the Hawks heading into the playoffs is as follows:
1. Heat
2. Bulls
3. Hawks
4. Celtics
5. Pacers or Magic
6. Magic or Pacers
7. Knicks
8. Bucks
The Hawks have won the regular season series matchup against the Magic and the Pacers which give the Hawks confidence and a psychological advantage over both teams.
The Knicks just yesterday proved it [the Knicks] can be the Bulls with Derek Rose. The Knicks could possibly wear out the Bulls in a 7-game series or perhaps pull off an upset.
The Bucks have beaten the Heat twice this regular season thereby winning the regular season series matchup. A quick backcourt of [Brandon] Jennings and [Monta] Ellis will be tough to handle for Chalmers and Wade. The Bucks could be a [big] problem for the Heat in a playoff series.
The Celtics have proven this year it [the Celtics] can beat both the Pacers and the Magic. Neither teams [Pacers and Magic] have an answer for Rondo who is one of today’s rare players that can dominate a game without scoring a lot of points but can dominate a game by controlling tempo, dishing out assists, grabbing rebounds, getting loose balls and being a menace and a hound defending [the] opposing point guards.
I still maintain that a Hawks-Bulls [second round playoff] matchup is more favorable [for the Hawks] than a Hawks-Heat matchup [is favorable]. After all, the Hawks did win two games last year against the Bulls in the second round of the playoffs. That should tell the Hawks’ players they can compete with and beat the Bulls in the playoffs and the Hawks did win one of those [playoffs] games in Chicago. Moreover, the Hawks should’ve beat the Bulls in this year’s first regular season series matchup [game]; the Hawks blew a big lead in that game. I probably need to slow down about the Hawks and its chances in second round playoff matchup with the Bulls. I still remember Jameer Nelson telling Derrick Rose “catch you [Rose and the Bulls] in the second round [of the playoffs]” after a late regular season loss [last year] by the Magic to the Bulls. After the Hawks beat the Magic in the playoffs last year, he [Jameer Nelson] had enough “egg on his face” to supply the morning shift of any restaurant serving an “All You Can Eat” breakfast buffet.
tjhook
April 9th, 2012
2:53 pm
I hear a lot of people complain about Hinrich being in the starting lineup, but it is clear that he has at least indirectly made life easier for the rest of the starting five (less confusion about ball movement and definite improvement offensively) I copied this statement from the Yahoo Sports NBA Power Rankings:
Kirk Hinrich still isn’t making many shots, but the Hawks’ new starting lineup (with Hinrich at the two) has been strong offensively, scoring 109 points per 100 possessions in 311 minutes together. If the Hawks want home-court advantage in the first round, wins in Boston and Orlando this week would really help.
Yes, Kirk is only averaging seven points but he is helping Teague with ballhandling and allowing Smith and Johnson to focus on getting good looks at the basket. On defense, his EFFORT is making it easier for the frontline to play help defense and more importantly limit the other team from getting offensive rebounds (a key stat when we play Rajon Rondo and the Boston Celtics). Maybe we can find a better two-guard after this season but the other four starters are in the best role for the team currently. Throw in a veteran bench and we have a true chance to beat every team in a seven-game series. I say this particularly because the team is growing offensively (Teague is taking more control of the offense and Hinrich’s ability to run the team and help Teague on the court allows Teague to play through mistakes without one of the big guns (Smith, Joe)running over and dominating the basketball.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 9th, 2012
2:53 pm
AJ
Here’s my point: the coach monitors his older players and, does not run them into the ground. My point has nothing to do with the players starter status. Clearly, TMAC is not a starter. Duuhh ….
High-sider
April 9th, 2012
2:56 pm
^Correction: “The Knicks just yesterday proved it [the Knicks] can be[at]* the Bulls with Derek Rose.”
Section 303
April 9th, 2012
3:02 pm
T-Mac was never going to log major minutes this season. The idea was to keep him healthy so he could be at full strength for the playoffs. I actually think Coach Drew has managed him well this year.
And, I never used to be a big fan of T-Mac. I am now. Enjoy watching that guy play. He is never in a rush, normally makes the right pass, and seems to be one of the smarter players (basketball wise) on the team. I think he will help a lot in the postseason.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 9th, 2012
3:03 pm
Excellent article by the always reliable David Aldridge on the age limit controversy.
SteveW
April 9th, 2012
3:04 pm
Doc has the guys Boston playing great. Unfortunately.
Astro Joe
April 9th, 2012
3:07 pm
Mary, you’re assuming that LD is asking TMac to practice HARD… which may not be the case. maybe he just expects dude to show up on time and practice. Maybe actually pay attention when trying to learn new sets. Maybe do more than walk in practice. We don’t know exactly what “good practice habits” mean. But if 10+ players on the squad can make it happen, why can’t TMac? Again, do you really want to create an exception for TMac? If he does that, does someone else on the squad ask for a similar exception?
Instead of asking the head coach to make a singular exception why not ask the player to get on board with the TEAM’s program?
Slimjr
April 9th, 2012
3:10 pm
Go ahead say it..Did I miss something? Didn’t Chicago just come through here a couple of weeks ago and just steam roll the Hawks without their superstar and you think its going to be a different story line in a playoff match up?
“Crack is Whack” Sheesh..
46
Najeh Davenpoop
April 9th, 2012
3:11 pm
If MC’s guess is true, hard to fault T-Mac for being p-ssed at being singled out for poor practice habits when the team from the top down tacitly admits that he should be treated with kid gloves due to his physical condition. If he’s not supposed to play in back to back games — which do after all count in the standings — why should he go all out in practice, which doesn’t count? We talkin’ bout practice, man. Not a game, not a game, but practice.
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 9th, 2012
3:15 pm
Break it Up!
Hey fellas, break those long paragraphs up some. It’s hard to read all that on cell phones. Just sayin’. (smile)
Ra'mon
April 9th, 2012
3:17 pm
AJ, I honestly believe that LD has given T-Mac too many DNP-CD this season. I may be wrong, but I bet T-Mac had had the most DNP-CD’s this season excluding Stack. I’m not saying T-Mac should’ve played 25 min per game. But a lot of those DNP-CD, could have had T-Mac play 10 minutes at least.
LD has this team with a great winning percentage, when you consider that their 3rd best player was out all season, and their all star guard had surgery during the season. So I can’t (realistically) get on his case too much. But I would’ve liked to see T-Mac play more often in the first half of games.
Rod from College Park
April 9th, 2012
3:21 pm
“Marvin in April
13.3 ppg – 65% FG – 75% 3FG . . in just under 24 minutes
Jamal Crawford in April
11 ppg – 35% FG – 25% 3FG . . . in just over 25 minutes
Marvin > Jamal”
Marvin Career playoff stats:
7.2ppg, 23.8 min, 39%FG, 3.5 rpg, 26% 3point. Been to the playoffs 4 years in his career, has a total of 94 free throws.
Jamal Career playoff stats:
18.8ppg, 30.8 mpg, 28% FG, 2.6apg, 35% 3 point. Been to the playoffs 2 years in his career, has a toatl of 109 free throws.
One guy has balls the other guy does not. I’ll let you guess which one does not. They actually should never be mentioned in the same sentence unless you are saying they are both from the Seattle area.
Najeh Davenpoop
April 9th, 2012
3:21 pm
“Boston is a matchup nightmare for the Hawks. I want nothing to do with that team in the 1st round”
Not if the Hawks go with a big lineup.
With the current lineup, KG can neutralize Josh and Joe will be matched on Pierce who he can’t post up very easily.
With a bigger lineup, KG will have no choice but to guard Zaza who will annoy him, Ivan and Bass will neutralize each other, and Josh will be able to post up Pierce. If KG insists on guarding Josh even when he plays SF, that means the Hawks will have a matchup advantage somewhere else.
Slimjr
April 9th, 2012
3:22 pm
Lets hope Larry does not hold a grudge against TMAC in the Playoffs?
He better play this man..His basketball IQ is off the charts!
Slimjr
April 9th, 2012
3:24 pm
ISO will not be able to post up Paul at all.. All he can do is face up and try to shoot over the top..
And hope his shots are falling but its the playoffs man..Good luck with that strategy…
Slimjr
April 9th, 2012
3:25 pm
Paul will quickly put ISO in foul trouble with his crafty game..
drmaryb.(*_*).
April 9th, 2012
3:28 pm
Najeh doing his “A.I.” Impersonation. LOL! My feelings exactly. 28.5Pts play off average does not need practice, esp. past his prime with poor knees and lower back history.
NO CLUE DREW!
Najeh Davenpoop
April 9th, 2012
3:29 pm
By the way, Allen doesn’t start anymore. Bradley does. Either one is a much more favorable matchup in the post for Joe than Pierce.
AceDawg
April 9th, 2012
3:42 pm
The Hawks are as dangerous to themselves as their opponents, but they could be formidable with a healthy Horford and home court advantage. I’d say they should beat all teams in the East with home court advantage minus the Heat and Bulls. Even then, if the Hawks can play great basketball four times out of seven, they could potentially pull the big upset. Of couse, they won’t have home court over either of those, and Atlanta may very well show more Hyde than Jekyl, but life is better when we dream.
doc
April 9th, 2012
3:43 pm
slimj, dude, 1:57? where the f#ck that come from and how in your mind can that comment be relevant to our discussion. you go psychotic on me?