Atlanta Hawks: Bucks 108, Hawks 101
Vivlamore reporting from Milwaukee. Here is my updated game story, with quotes, from the Hawks’ 108-101 loss to the Bucks Tuesday night.
MILWAUKEE — The Hawks were wary of Monta Ellis — and for good reason.
Ellis scored a game-high 33 points, including 17 in the decisive fourth quarter, to do in the Hawks Tuesday night. The guard, acquired at the trade deadline from the Warriors, was too much for the Hawks down the stretch en route to a 108-101 victory at the Bradley Center.
Hawks coach Larry Drew was worried about Ellis before the game. He might have nightmares about him after the showing.
“He is pretty good,” Drew said. “He got into a roll. He got into a rhythm. He was making shots. He is a good player. We tried a couple different things but he just got into a zone there.”
Ellis hit 7 of 9 shots in the fourth quarter, including the Bucks’ first six points, as they erased a three-point deficit and broke open a close game.
“We let him get into a rhythm and he is a scorer,” said Hawks guard Joe Johnson, who missed most of the first quarter to get five stitches inside his lip. “In this league, if you let scorers get into a rhythm they will pick you a part all night long. I thought down the stretch, individual defense just wasn’t that great.”
The Hawks (30-21) had a four-game win streak snapped and lost for only the second time in the past eight games. They dropped to 28-4 when scoring 90 or more points. Josh Smith led the Hawks with 30 points and 18 rebounds, including 15 points in the second quarter for his 24th double-double this season. Ivan Johnson had 17 points, hitting all seven of his field-goal attempts, including a 3-pointer. Jeff Teague had 15 points, Marvin Williams and Johnson had 11 and Kirk Hinrich had 10 to round out the double-figure scorers.
The Bucks (23-27), fighting for a playoff spot, snapped a two-game losing streak while playing their fifth game in six days. They also received 18 points from Brandon Jennings and 16 points from Drew Gooden.
As much as Ellis hurt the Hawks, they can point to turnovers as their true killer. The Hawks turned the ball over 22 times – 10 in the first quarter and three crucial times in the fourth quarter. Teague had seven turnovers.
“It wasn’t them scoring baskets, it was us taking care of the ball,” Teague said. “I put a lot of that on me. We had a lot of turnovers early and key turnovers late. I had a lot of those. That was the difference tonight.”
The Hawks entered the game fifth in the NBA in fewest turnovers per game at 13.98. Drew said his team “shot ourselves in the foot” with the carelessness.
“We can’t expect to win a game, especially on the road, if we are going to turn the basketball over at that rate,” Drew said.
The Hawks used a 17-4 run to close the third quarter, erasing an eight-point halftime deficit, and took a 79-78 lead. Teague’s short jumper with 8.9 seconds remaining in the third quarter gave the Hawks their first lead since they led 17-16 with 5:46 remaining in the first quarter. Six different Hawks scored during the third-quarter run.
Then Ellis took over.
The Bucks jumped on the Hawks midway through the opening quarter. They ended the period on a 15-6 run to take an eight-point lead at 31-25. The Bucks shot 53.8 percent in the first quarter with Ellis leading the way with 10 points.
The Hawks, by stark contrast, shot only 39.1 percent from the field and committed 10 turnovers. Johnson played only the opening two minutes, 18 seconds of the first quarter after leaving to get stitches inside his lip when he collided with teammate Zaza Pachulia. He returned early in the second quarter.
The Bucks built a 17-point lead in the second quarter before Smith caught fire. Smith was accessed a technical foul early in the period after shouting “And one” to an official after scoring an inside basket in which he thought he was fouled.
Smith, who scored only two points in the first quarter, had 17 points at the half. He scored 13 of the Hawks’ final 17 points of the second quarter — including the final nine — to trim the disadvantage back to nine points at the intermission, 55-46.
“I was trying to be efficient and get some stuff to the basket,” Smith said. “Then, I was able to recognize what I was doing wrong on my jump shot and I was able to correct it.”
The Hawks were playing their fourth game in five days — including Sunday’s four-overtime thrilling win over the Jazz. They return home Wednesday to host the Bulls.
It will be a short turnaround to forget the damage done by Ellis, who scored just four points Monday in a loss to the Knicks.
“We were looking at different matchups,” Drew said. “We were just trying to give him a different look. We didn’t want him to get comfortable with the same guy guarding him. We do that quite often to try to take a guy out of his rhythm, out of his timing. Tonight, it didn’t work.”
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138 comments Add your comment
Slimjr
March 27th, 2012
11:40 pm
uno
tyler
March 27th, 2012
11:40 pm
first
ricardo anyaz
March 27th, 2012
11:40 pm
bad coach
Inconsistent players
cheap and sad front office
Welcome to Atlanta Hawks Basketball!. When Kirk Hinrich he is a borderline scrub gets this many minutes you know the coach has rocks in his head.
Slimjr
March 27th, 2012
11:41 pm
dos
Slimjr
March 27th, 2012
11:41 pm
Hire Woody!
tyler
March 27th, 2012
11:42 pm
oh well…..as far as the game goes- nice comeback to take the lead but I never really felt like we were gonna win this one. Defense was bad and we missed a ton of open jumpers. Turnovers were critical too- I have a bad feeling about tomorrow night as well.
City Of Atlanta Still Recovering From William Tecumseh Sherman
March 27th, 2012
11:44 pm
hawks need a point guard point blank
City Of Atlanta Still Recovering From William Tecumseh Sherman
March 27th, 2012
11:45 pm
wait…hawks need a vet point guard not someone who will look t pass it to joe every single time down the court
Slimjr
March 27th, 2012
11:54 pm
Monte buried the Hawks. He’s pretty good
TMACfan
March 28th, 2012
12:13 am
Josh Smith passed Nique for double doubles… WOW
TMACfan
March 28th, 2012
12:14 am
Slimjr trying to get a DUI
bbfan
March 28th, 2012
12:19 am
Hope Josh never makes the allstar team, that dude has been on a mission every since.
Seems like Teague always has that “deer in the headlights look”. I don’t want the ball, you take it
City Of Atlanta Still Recovering From William Tecumseh Sherman
March 28th, 2012
12:23 am
EXACTLY bbfan
Rusty
March 28th, 2012
12:24 am
I’m sure that JT has strict orders not to look for his shots but to keep feeding everybody but especially JJ & JS.
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
12:24 am
Imitation is the highest form of Flattery!
Except for the TO’s, Jeff was impersonating Bibby tonight. Walking the ball up and, passing the ball to Joe at half court.
Many times I saw the paint wide open and Jeff was looking around and dribbling, picked up the dribble early and often and forced soft, telegraphed passes to the Bucks.
A really disappointing performance by Jeff. Well, just walk away from this one and, hope it doesn’t come back to bite for that #3 spot. The best part about this contest was IVAN blossoming and growing with confidence before our eyes. It’s so beautiful to see, like watching a flower open before your very eyes.
G-Nite cohorts.
Rusty
March 28th, 2012
12:29 am
Love Ivan Johnson,should be getting a lot more minutes but why would LD give him more.
bigdave
March 28th, 2012
12:49 am
lol.. i wish i could remember the discussion where a frequent blogger was inferring that Magic was hurting.. or posturing. yea right..
Buddy G
March 28th, 2012
1:15 am
Slimjr you ready for Woodsanity tonight vs. ORL?
E43
March 28th, 2012
1:21 am
There’s nothing wrong with Jeff Teague. All he needs to be is aggressive. That’s hard to do playing with 3 ballhandlers on the court at all times. The reason I prefer Josh Smith at SF is because you add a big body up front and you ad big at the 3 minus one ball handler hogging Teague’s possessions. Meanwhile Zaza is almost averaging a double double. No true center is coming to Atlanta. I think they should just get over it when Al returns and keep Zaza a starter until they’re able to find whatever it is they’re looking for in a center. Reality is that they wont be able to afford one and stay competitive at the same time. They’re in denial if they think that they can.
Z-Ro tha crooked
March 28th, 2012
1:45 am
Hawks STANK period! Larry Drew looks like a AA dropout
tyger
March 28th, 2012
1:58 am
The heart was willing, but the legs were not…
After back-back-back and a plane ride…
I knew this was improbable, really wished…
LD would’ve rode with the reserves more…
It was apparent, they were playing in mud…
Ivan, after absences, had the legs and it showed…
JJ’s poor line directly attributed to 55min vs. Utah…
Seems, that wouldve been a clue to go deeper…
Willie Green, TMac play 6min…
Collins, Dampier, Stack, Vladi – DNP
The team fell apart in the 4Q due to fatigue…
They are professsionals, not supermen…
You ride w your money players, definitely, but…
With Chicago, NY, Philly up after 3 straight and 4OT…
Common sense oughta kick-in at some point…
Turnovers were atrocious, but a result of fatigue…not just Teague.
I’m LDs biggest fan, but he overplayed his hand on this one.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
March 28th, 2012
2:08 am
Big Ivan For President
vava74
March 28th, 2012
2:20 am
Probably tired, as I had predicted.
Also on cue:
- Luc Mbah played major minutes since he is a JJ stopper;
- Ellis and the rest bounced back after laying an egg against NYK.
Too much negative factors weighting in.
LD, as usual, had no answers to sudden game changing events (”we tried different things…”)…
What about ordering someone to deck Monta to stop his mojo? Winning implies doing dirty stuff here and there.
The SAS were a class act with ONE thug (Bowen) doing the dirty work, like kicking guys on their Achilles or stepping on their feet.
vava74
March 28th, 2012
2:20 am
Let’s sign this guy
http://bcove.me/mofv9p1u
surfmaui
March 28th, 2012
3:25 am
Give these guys a break. After back to back to back with 5 total overtimes thrown in (4 in the last game) and unbeliveable minutes these guys were exhausted. Shorthanded they have shown incredible heart and tenacity. With what they’ve had to work with I’m seldom been prouder of what the Hawks have accomplished without Horford and I’ve been a hawk fan for more than 55 years. They haven’t got the bodies to win it, but unlike past years these guys have shown me a lot of character. Get Al back and keep this group together for one more year.
will jackson
March 28th, 2012
6:10 am
Hawks Suck
vava74
March 28th, 2012
7:12 am
It’s also bad luck that we faced MIL after a let down defeat and a probably pretty intense Skiles’ chewing… that lead to changes to the line up for the better (Luc instead of Delfino).
And, we will be facing the Bulls ALSO after a let down defeat against DEN, making it highly probable that Thibs also chewed his men violently and will have them come focused and motivated even if Rose does not play…
5th game in 6 days…
STRETCH
March 28th, 2012
7:47 am
“As much as Ellis hurt the Hawks, they can point to turnovers as their true killer. The Hawks turned the ball over 22 times – 10 in the first quarter and three crucial times in the fourth quarter. Teague had seven turnovers.”
Point G cant turn the ball over 7 times! I love Teague, but man does he still have work to do. Gotta pick it up guys and go .500 or better down the stretch.
Dawg
March 28th, 2012
7:55 am
The the 3 games in a row and then 4 ot’s there was no way that the Hawks should have even been as close as they were.
I applaud them for going thru the worst scheduling ever by the NBA.
Section 303
March 28th, 2012
8:02 am
Not a good night last night. Hope for better tonight.
I still do not think the Bulls are clearly the 2nd best team in the East. All the talking heads think the Chicago/Miami series is a forgone conclusion. Not me. I agree, Miami is the best team in the conference right now. The Bulls are not on that level. The Hawks would be 2 and 1 against them, had they hit free throws in the early January game at the UC. Bulls are good, but not any better than any of the other teams 2-6 in the East.
STRETCH
March 28th, 2012
8:02 am
They will probably finish 37-28 but hopefully better. But they need to make a statement with 5 home games to close out the regular season. Make it to the second round and get ready for the off-season.
And a few free agents to go after:
Deron Williams – Long shot, but gotta try
OJ Mayo – Explosiveness off the bench
M. Beasley – Productive starting SF
S. Hawes – Big center (young, with upside)
G. Wallace – Active, quick SF would make all-star team if put in right place
The team as currently constructed is a really deep team, jumst missing a coupld pieces. But thats why Atlanta is a not so good city for sports, because management fails year in and out to address the “common sense” fixes to their sports teams.
The Hawks have needed, Center for years and and the Braves have needed a Left Fielder as well, yet the keep covering bullet holes with band aids.
Section 303
March 28th, 2012
8:03 am
On another note….assume the Bulls fans will take over Philips tonight, per usual. Atlanta fans = worst fans in history of the world.
Admiral Snackbar
March 28th, 2012
8:10 am
loved it when Ivan gave bahamoute a forearm shiver after a shot just for the heck of it.
moute looked at him like what the heck and Ivan ignored him and walked away.
that is the kind of big we have needed for a long time, a mean one!
mountain_jim
March 28th, 2012
8:19 am
Hawks could have drafted Ellis in the 2nd round, 2005 draft, in the pick they took Salim Stoudamire. Ellis was still around until the 40th pick.
Some of us here at this blog, and the squawk wanted knew about Ellis and wanted Billy to pick him, but nooooooooooooooo ..
rollow lawson
March 28th, 2012
8:42 am
Larry Drew did a horrible job in using his bench last night. Why is McGrady not playing? He should good and well rested.
O'Brien
March 28th, 2012
8:51 am
One of the deals thrown out there before the deadline was Monta Ellis and Biedrins for JJ and filler. That would have gotten us out from under JJ’s contract. Not sure Golden State was interested though.
The big issue with JJ (imo) is he doesnt have the right mentality to be the scorer we need. Too often he goes passive.
And last night was a good opportunity for LD to make some moves that might have helped, but I didnt see much from him in terms of strategy. How do we let Monta (a small shooter) get 17 in the 4th like that?
That being said, hopefully we can give a good effort at home tonight. There will be lots of Bulls fans in the Arena, so we need to play well and shut them up.
WHY ARE THEY STILL HERE ?????
March 28th, 2012
9:03 am
GREAT TO SEE THEM LOSE, EXCELLENT !!!!! WHO REALLY CARES ???
THEY MUST BE MOVED TO SEATTLE AFTER THIS WORTHLESS SEASON AND WE WILL
BE RID OF THIS SICK TEAM AND OWNERS ONCE AND FOR ALL !!!
nba BASKETBALL STINKS AND NOBODY SHOULD CARE AND EVERYONE SHOULD WANT THEM GONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hawks STINK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MOVE ASAP PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vava74
March 28th, 2012
9:10 am
ummm… is it me or suddenly there is a distinct stench floating around this blog?
JM
March 28th, 2012
9:14 am
Got to ditto earlier post on LD. What is he doing? You have a pretty good bench, use them. There is no reason Smoove, JJ and Zaza should be logging so many minutes. T-Mac, Stack, even Vlad needs more time – even if its only a couple minutes. It is obvious our Hawks are tired. Go Hawks!
Astro Joe
March 28th, 2012
9:16 am
OB, that would have been a horrifc trade (IMO). Biedrins can’t get steady playing time on an awful team and Ellis is a one dimensional volume scorer.
Strange to see a team shoot 50% and win the rebounding fight but lose. Those TOs will kill you every time. All of the starters were bad in that area, not just Teague.
Slimjr
March 28th, 2012
9:25 am
Ivan looked like the energizer bunny..He had a magnificent game coming off the bench! Love Ivan!
IVAN for President!
Yea Buddy, looking forward to the Knicks vs Orlando and the Hawks vs Chicago! NBA basketball is fantastic!
I forgot Ellis went 40th in that 2005 draft? Wow, what a baller..Probably the best scorer coming out that year by far!
Dawg
March 28th, 2012
9:29 am
What has happened to our bench? Why no minutes when the team is obviously dragging? If LD can not change, our team will be dead in the playoffs due to fatigue.
Slimjr
March 28th, 2012
9:39 am
Section 303
March 28th, 2012
8:03 am
“On another note….assume the Bulls fans will take over Philips tonight, per usual. Atlanta fans = worst fans in history of the world.”
0-45!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You got to give to receive..
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
9:51 am
All the excuses about fatigue and travel are just that–excuses, and poor ones at that. The Bucks had just come off a 5-games-in-6-nights fiasco, including their loss Monday night in NY (while the Hawks rested).There are NO (legitimate) excuses.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
9:54 am
Admiral Snackbar
March 28th, 2012
8:10 am
loved it when Ivan gave bahamoute a forearm shiver after a shot just for the heck of it.
moute looked at him like what the heck and Ivan ignored him and walked away. that is the kind of big we have needed for a long time, a mean one!
________________
Good post. You’re pretty observant. I saw that poke by Ivan and had to chuckle. Just subtle enough to escape the refs’ eyes, but firm enough to get a point across.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
9:56 am
Slimjr: “0-45!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You got to give to receive.”
_______________
Well put, Slimjr. Those who take pro sports fans in ATL to task seem to forget what the fans have been given here for nearly a half-century.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
10:01 am
vava74
March 28th, 2012
9:10 am
ummm… is it me or suddenly there is a distinct stench floating around this blog?
______________________
Presumably that was in response to WHY ARE THEY STILL HERE ????? and all his excessive CAPS and punctuation (?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)–not to mention his questionable point of view. You’re right, vava74, it did create a distinct stench.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
10:08 am
Posted this morning on last night’s blog (a discussion of philosophies):
Sautee: “’What you should be saying is a good effort is NOT enough. NO excuses.’- Dawgnole
“No my friend, that’s what YOU would say. I think their effort was laudable, despite losing the game. Too bad you seem to think that all the rest of us should think just like you. Damn, what a boring place this would be. You should celebrate the vast range of views here, but you seem to have a hard time with that. You are an intelligent blogger, but you cross the line when you start telling other bloggers what they “should” say. No offense intended, just FYI.”
_____________________
You have a problem with my suggesting what bloggers “should” say, then you proceed to tell me what I “should” celebrate. There goes any credibilty you may have had. Bloggers express their opinions–that’s what this is for–regardless of how I think they “should” feel. And that’s all my entries are–opinions. I’ve crossed no lines here.
If you think a “good” effort and the resulting loss is “laudable,” then you represent the very reason ATL’s pro sports teams have claimed only one championship in more than 150 seasons of competition. There are NO excuses for that level of ineptitude, and acceptance of losing by you and too many others will only help ensure that sports history repeats itself in this city.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
10:11 am
Guess I better stop now (applause). Looks like everybody’s left the room.
vava74
March 28th, 2012
10:42 am
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
10:01 am
Yes, you are correct. Fortunately, the stench is gone now. It really beats my imagination what is the purpose of someone going into a Hawks blog to say that they should be gone from ATL…
It sounds too much like a scorned girlfriend to me.
On your “negativism”, I would like to point out the following:
- There will be a time (or maybe not) that you will look at sports only as the entertainment product that they are and accept the good and the bad more lightly.
- I am already on that phase (not that I am ancient, I am on my late 30’s) but there was a time that I was a rabid soccer fan here in Europe (by rabid, I mean “college sports fan like super rabid”.
- Nonetheless, I too identify this ownership as not being serious about getting a championship: basically, their objectives are not the same as the fans’ (they are in this as an entertaining and eventually profitable business and that’s it).
- To make a championship winner, in particular in a league where parity is a mirage (not only financial but also institutional – ie. some stars who are seen by the league as NBA’s main product will always get a differentiated treatment which clashes with what should be the truth on the floor) you need:
- Loads of $$$$
- Intelligence (excellent personnel spanning Ownership/GM/Coach/Scouts/MDs/Players/…) and
- Luck
The ASG does not have enough $$$$$, nor intelligence (across the board*) to make the Hawks a winner.
* However, I think our roster is much better than people give credit for and that with a REAL head coach and a few tweaks, we could contend.
So, you should look at games like I do:
I almost had an heart attack during the 4OT thriller and I cannot even imagine if we were competing in the finals (I think I would need to dope myself into a very relaxed mood to withstand the pressure).
BUT
I was only very very very mildly bugged with yesterday’s loss (which I could not watch because tip off at 1AM makes it impossible to watch all games).
bucket
March 28th, 2012
10:48 am
Enter your comments here
Rod from College Park
March 28th, 2012
10:55 am
“All the excuses about fatigue and travel are just that–excuses, and poor ones at that. The Bucks had just come off a 5-games-in-6-nights fiasco, including their loss Monday night in NY (while the Hawks rested).There are NO (legitimate) excuses.”
Cosign. Not to mention the fact that the 20 million dollar man was being guarded one on one down the stretch by Mike Dunleavy. We are suppossed to be impressed that he stepped up against Clevaland, New Jersey, and Utah though. How about stepping up tonight, and taking over a game that matters. D. Rose would take over if he was playing. The same excuses will be used tonight, when Joe does not step up. He is tired, plays too many minutes……. LOL
O'Brien
March 28th, 2012
10:57 am
AJ,
That trade only made sense if the ASG felt like they can’t afford to pay JJ for the remainder of his contracr (and I dont think they will amnesty him) while giving Josh a raise when his contract is up next offseason.
Najeh,
With teague’s 3-pt shooting % being so bad for March, it is reflected in his game. I see alot of hesitation when he is open for the 3, sometimes passing it up only to take a contested jumper (from in the paint) instead.
CoastDog
March 28th, 2012
11:00 am
Go Hocks!
Rod from College Park
March 28th, 2012
11:00 am
vava74,
“* However, I think our roster is much better than people give credit for and that with a REAL head coach and a few tweaks, we could contend.”
I am shocked to know that you think so highly of our roster, with 3 LOSERS on it. (TMac, Pargo, and Willie Green)
O'Brien
March 28th, 2012
11:08 am
Rod,
Co-sign. JJ’s numbers are padded by his performances against bad teams. But too often when we play a good team, he goes passive (or they take him out of his game). His ppg against some of the playoff teams (this season).
Bulls – 13 ppg
Orlando – 14 ppg
Philly – 12 ppg
Spurs – 10 ppg
Lakers – 15 ppg
Pacers – 17.5 ppg
Houston – 15 ppg.
The 2 good games he had against good teams were the 34 against Denver and 25 against Boston. He needs to step up against good teams when you’re making $120 mil.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
11:09 am
Strong post, vava74 (10:42 a.m.) You make some observations that indicate you are wise beyond your years. I’ll respond to a couple of your points.
“There will be a time (or maybe not) that you will look at sports only as the entertainment product that they are and accept the good and the bad more lightly.”
I’m always delighted with the good, but when you’ve been a fan of the pro teams in ATL for almost 50 years, and they’ve produced only one championship in that time, then the bad far outweighs the good. And you become weary of the same excuses year after year. That’s where I am–and have been for awhile. How many years is enough?
“I think our roster is much better than people give credit for and that with a REAL head coach and a few tweaks, we could contend.”
I don’t dispute that, but it’s what we’ve been hearing about ATL pro teams since before you were born. We’re always just a few changes from serious contention. I think you have to look at the totality of the situation: almost a half-century of competition (154 seasons)–and still only one title (’95 Braves). There remain NO legitimate excuses for those abysmal results.
“I almost had an heart attack during the 4OT thriller and I cannot even imagine if we were competing in the finals . . . .”
Same here, because I really do want the team to win–and that night it earned big-time respect for its resilience and dogged determination. But to become a champion, you’ve got to have effort like that more than once a season. There’s no taking away from that particular victory; what irks me is that the next game–a loss to a weak (and also exhausted) Bucks team is followed by the same tired excuses we’ve been hearing since 1968. Gotta move past that reaction and take the next step, which means no more excuses–not after after 45 years of them. They no longer hold water–and haven’t in quite some time.
I wonder how you took an interest in the Hawks (being in Europe)? Hey, you help give the team an “international” fan base. There’s a positive.
vava74
March 28th, 2012
11:14 am
Rod,
All fair and square…
But your boy just had yet another great night with POR:
J. Crawford 19:51 FG1-7 3pFG0-3 FT0-0 (±) -18 oReb0 Reb1 Ast1 TO2 Stl1 Blk0 FL1 Pts2
Rod from College Park
March 28th, 2012
11:24 am
OB,
What’s even more scary is that good teams are able to take him out of the game with one defender. They are not even having to double him anymore. Tonight, if the game is close towards the end, Chicago will simply put Deng man to man on Joe, and Joe will not be a factor. I hope I am wrong, but that seems to be the trend.
gvj
March 28th, 2012
11:31 am
Rod Those 3 losers are the reason that the Hawks have won many games. They have hit big shots at crucial times plus they are legit players that this team got at a great price.When they are on they make some overpaid players on this roster look like shatt.
darrell starks
March 28th, 2012
11:39 am
Hawks are not playing good defense, this reason for so many close games because of lack concentration and not defending better than what was before, when everybody was on same page, this team was giving up less than 90points a game now lately team are scoring over a 100points game, Hawks must get back to playing tough defense.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rollow lawson
March 28th, 2012
11:40 am
This game falls squarely on Drew. He played his starters too long in this game. Where was Green, McGrady, and Radmanovic? Joe Johnson had an off night. So what. Everyone does now and then. We pulled games out of the fire three times in a row over the weekend. Just remember that the other teams get paid to show up too. The Hawks just couldn’t make the necessary stops on the defensive end. In addition, we sure missed Pargo tonight. He could have done a better job staying in front of Jennings and Ellis. Jeff Teague looks slow as heck on the defensive end. Opposing point guards constantly blow by him. And if he passes up another wide open jumper, I will throw my shoe through the TV.
Astro Joe
March 28th, 2012
11:42 am
Joe didn’t get paid to have elite stats against the best teams, he got paid to make sure the ASG maintain their revenue stream.
Rod from College Park
March 28th, 2012
11:47 am
“Rod Those 3 losers are the reason that the Hawks have won many games. They have hit big shots at crucial times plus they are legit players that this team got at a great price.When they are on they make some overpaid players on this roster look like shatt.”
I am aware of that. You need to direct your post at vava74. Words of wisdom. Don’t jump in the middle of a fight, if you don’t know what the fight is about.
Rod from College Park
March 28th, 2012
11:51 am
OB,
I guess Joe gets tired against all the above average teams. His legs only get weary when The Chicago’s and Miami’s pop up on the schedule. LOL
vava74
March 28th, 2012
12:10 pm
Rod,
You are very amusing.
I never called neither Green nor Pargo losers.
I called T-Mac a loser and although I have seen that his bball IQ is high and still capable of making plays on court, I don’t think I am speculating too much in thinking that his “losing ways” (ie. lack of conditioning, training and professional focus) seem to be at least part responsible for his lack of minutes.
NOTE: I would be pissed too if Marvin was starting ahead of me, but you have to take it as a professional and T-Mac never seemed to go down that road throughout his career.
I am also not letting LD off the hook since I still consider him to be the #1 problem, but T-Mac does not seem to get himself in game shape physically and mentally (I could be wrong).
On Pargo: I questioned his ability to contribute and if he would fit MY VIEW on how bball should be played since his career FG% is atrocious and I thought that he was just a discount version of Jamal.
He isn’t: Pargo always plays with a big pair ON BOTH ends of the court. He may not be a great defender, but he does not take plays off.
Jamal, on the contrary, always seems a bit of an emotionally detached circus act. Unquestionable skills and apparently a genuinely good character but I would not trust him on the battle field.
Green was NEVER the subject of any criticism from me, quite the contrary. His career numbers show that he is a decent and efficient scorer which seems to make good decisions (very low TO averages).
Geemack
March 28th, 2012
12:11 pm
Chris Vivlamore
Any update on Horford?
Will he be ready for the playoffs?
vava74
March 28th, 2012
12:18 pm
Rod,
Going back to your JJ commentary – which I consider somewhat fair since as you may recall, I have been preaching that Josh should be given clear #1 status since a couple of months now.
You said that Rose would have “been there” in the 4th quarter.
JJ has had an excellent month of March with many excellent 4th quarter showings. I am curious to see the updated data for clutch stats on 82games but before March JJ was already “up there” with the best.
Also, tough boy Rose has missed 17 games with nick-nack injuries. It may be a smart/strategic decision but you cannot say that JJ does not do his utmost to dress up even when banged up.
darrell starks
March 28th, 2012
12:26 pm
Teague has to play like he did last night and be aggressive, he will have his bump and bruise and played bad, but it will pay dividends at end, continue to attack Teague and he will become a top ten point guard in this league.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AG
March 28th, 2012
12:28 pm
no team wins all 66 games. Good game fella’s… I would rather have a loss to Milwaukee and a win against Da Bulls!!!!
Section 303
March 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
DawgNole, no excuses? So, the Hawks have to go 66-0 this season? Be smarter than that. Don’t try and spin that the travel, games, and no recovery time is not a factor. Yes, all teams have tough schedules this year, but there is no telling how/when your legs will just not be there. It’s not a PS3 game.
Also, the injuries? Those don’t factor in? ……..whatever. I could go on and on with this. It’s statements like “no excuses” that give the blog world a bad name. But, …..carry on being slow.
Rod from College Park
March 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
vava74,
I won’t even go back and search for the post, but the bottom line is I told you that all three guys were solid basketball players, and good signings for the Hawks, and you did not agree.
As OB posted, JJ tends to pad his stats against bad teams. I have always liked JJ as a player, but he just does not have that inner dog. No way Kobe, Wade, Durant….let Mike Dunleavy shut them down at the end of a game. I don’t care how tired they are. It won’t happen. JJ is paid like a superstar. A superstar should never let Mike Dunleavy, or Monte Ellis contain them down the stretch. It always amuses me when we played Golden State and now when we play Milwaukee with the JJ, Monta Ellis matchup. Both are very good players, but the last two times they have matched up, I have seen Monta post Joe more times than Joe post Monta. It makes no common sense to me for Joe not to take advantage of these smaller guys in the post. That should be the call everytime down the floor until they double, but that is not Joe’s game. He is the only superstar in the league that good teams can easily take out of his game. I don’t know if you get the broadcast with Nique, but he always points this out. When we play bad teams, Nique always comments on how he does not understand why they keep leaving Joe open, or why his defender keeps going under screens. When we play teams like the Bulls, they don’t do those dumb things, and Joe struggles.
O'Brien
March 28th, 2012
12:50 pm
Vava,
JJ has had an excellent month of March with many excellent 4th quarter showings..
Look at his higher scoring games (20+pts) and the opponents;
21 against Sacramento
34 against Denver
34 against Washington
28 against Cleveland
25 against Boston
22 against Cleveland
37 against Utah.
Only 3 playoff teams (and the Utah game was 4OT). JJ’s scoring history is 15ppg (or less) against good teams, 20+ against bad teams.
O'Brien
March 28th, 2012
12:52 pm
In the playoffs, the 2 teams I feel good about beating are Orlando and Indiana. Anybody else, all bets are off.
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
Horford Update!
Geemack baby, forget about Horford this year. He is not a horse sir, he is a human being. He sustained a severe injury. For the love of humanity – why would you want him to play this year. Do you even care that this is NOT in his long term best interest?
If anything, I would ask why didn’t his GM replace him for what Sund said was a “make or break” play off run for this core? Kaman was out there for a 2nd round pick, but they go get Daimpeer instead. Tragic!
This team is NOT built to win a title, with or without Mr. Horford. They are expected to win the 2nd round at best, they may do that but, I seriously doubt it.
Sorry Geemack, besides MC is not the person who would know if Horford is returning. MC is not a doctor and has little to no access to this team. He knows no more than we do. MC is a beat writer in name only. He gets player quips only after closed practices while they quickly exit the court. Basically, sound bites and vanilla answers.
That’s not MC’s fault. It is what it is.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
March 28th, 2012
1:04 pm
LD needs to look at at the big picture. If you want to make a deep playoff push you can’t wear your team out in the regular season.
High-sider
March 28th, 2012
1:05 pm
Rod from College Park and O’Brien,
Here’s a complete breakdown of Joe Johnson’s scoring average[s] vs. every NBA team this year thus far. [Scroll down.]
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/joe_johnson/season_splits.html
vava74
March 28th, 2012
1:06 pm
Rod from College Park
March 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
“vava74,
I won’t even go back and search for the post, but the bottom line is I told you that all three guys were solid basketball players, and good signings for the Hawks, and you did not agree.”
Rod,
This is simply not true.
We discussed T-Mac LAST YEAR when we were talking about Jamal.
Then, we discussed Pargo, who I never called a loser.
AND, you said that you did not like Green that much.
These are the facts, which you carelessly molded to fit your distorted view of reality.
On JJ:
I do not disagree, but for me, JJ needs quality coaching after getting too many years of Woody and now LD.
JJ was never a top dog but was catapulted to that position because he wanted that challenge and by default in ATL he was granted that status and that responsibility (and the corresponding ISO plays).
Back when ATL was a non-playoff team, other teams simply let him play his game at will since no matter who many points he scored, they could still easily beat the Hawks.
Now, with the Hawks firmly established as a playoff team, opposing teams know that they need to stop JJ to win games and consistently make him their target.
It’s up to the coaching staff to make JJ change his game accordingly: less ball possession, less pounding and more rhythm shots.
If JJ started to move more without the rock and hit more shots in rhythmn, that would open his game when he would have some selected ISO plays.
COACHING
Hubie said it during that traumatic series against ORL:
A good coach has get your best players on their sweet spots and put them in position to be effective.
Making JJ run into double and triple teams does not maximize his talent, on the contrary.
ejh
March 28th, 2012
1:09 pm
In the Off season Sund do a sign-N-trade with New Jersey; Send Teague and Horford for Deron Williams.
DWill, Joe, josh(sf), Ivan (pf), Zsa Zsa (C); Bench: Marvin, Willie Green, Pargo, Kaman, Kenyon Martin, fillers.
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
1:10 pm
Trend Setter!
OB’s post shows a setting trend. It is what it is.
vava74
March 28th, 2012
1:11 pm
The bottom line is:
JJ should be #2 to Josh.
JJ is a 20ppg player not a 25ppg player (he was one season under the conditions mentioned above – on a bottom dweller).
Hopefully, between now and the playoffs Josh confirms his “step up” and JJ thrives in his #2 role.
Not putting any money on it though.
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
Ask Sund!
Here are a battery of questions MC will never ask Sund:
What would you say is your defining moment as the Hawks GM?
What grade would you assign yourself in job performance?
Are you a Real GM or just a yes man to the ASKG?
Do you honestly feel you have built a championship roster?
Based on your track record, are you qualified to lead this team to the never seen trophy case?
Why do sell more picks than you make?
Why don’t you just pack your bags and leave if the owners will not allow you to do your job?
Do you care one ioda about the dwindled fan base?
What would you tell the fans as a reason why they should care, support and spend their house payments @ Phillips?
What to the hard core fans have to look forward to, that they haven’t already witnessed.
Why have you NOT signed a bonafide big man when, Josh and Al asked for help inside the paint?
Why hasn’t Teague been given PT and development?
Why did you draft and release Kito Benson, was drafting him a mistake on your part and why didn’t you sell that pick too for money to fix the scoreboard.
Will you do the fans a favor and just leave them alone after your contact expires?
_________
That’s just round one … The tough questions are next.
Astro Joe
March 28th, 2012
1:33 pm
Mary, do you think there is a GM in the NBA that doesn’t have a budget they must follow? Do you think all but Sund have a blank check from ownership? Did you know that each team has a Governor who must approve transactions by GMs… doesn’t that mean that they are all “yes men” to the governor? If you had a $25,000 car shopping budget and your neighbor had a $30,000 car shopping budget, what are the odds that you will purchase a car that will last as long, require less maintenance and maintain comparable resale value?
I am NOT self-employed, if my boss wants me to do option A after I reasonably and rationally suggest option B, then guess what? I’m not jeopardizing my ability to pay a mortgage to hold my ground and NOT execute option A.
Finally, how many GMs in pro sports enjoy complete and total autonomy?
High-sider
March 28th, 2012
1:42 pm
vava74,
Your “Let Josh [Smith] be Chief Cog” theory is turning into a “Let Josh [Smith] be Chief Hog” reality. Josh Smith had a monster game last night with 30pts and 18rebs but the Hawks still lost. Josh Smith attempted 18 field goals [shots] in the first half last night; that’s just too many shots [for the first half] and a number of those shots consisted of “pyrite” jumpers. I don’t like Josh Smith as the number one scoring option for the Hawks. That number one spot [scoring option] belongs to Joe Johnson. Along with that [perceived] “Chief Cog” status you want to give to Josh Smith comes the pressure shots and clutch buckets that he [Josh Smith] would be expected and required to make/convert. I don’t see Josh Smith making those “big time” shots right now with same regularity/frequency as Joe Johnson. Last night, Josh Smith shot an airball three point field goal as the Hawks were trying to make a late-game comeback; those types of [bad] shots can be seriously demoralizing and “momentum-killers” for a team trying to make a comeback. On the other hand, Joe Johnson has made/converted a lot of clutch shots this year in my opinion. Joe Johnson has 1.) made the step back three pointer against Detroit to send the game into overtime, 2.) made the step back three pointer against Utah to send the game into overtime as well as several other “big shots” in that 4OT thriller, 3.) made the game-winning shot against Cleveland and the three pointer to send the game into overtime and 4.) made the clutch three pointer late in the game against Washington to put Atlanta up by one point. The commonality in which Joe Johnson has made/converted clutch shots in those aforementioned games is that the Atlanta Hawks won all of those games. I think the Hawks are better off by letting “Joe [Johnson] be Chief Cog.”
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
1:45 pm
Geemack, sorry there, I thought you were asking MC, I see now that you are asking Chris. He has less access than MC, LOL! Sometimes, MC and Chris aren’t allowed to travel to some away games.
I guess the plane tickets are too costly for the AJC. They’re cash strapped too. Newspaper circulation is nearly extinct with all the social media available, they rely more on selling ad space than ever now.
Oh well, just don’t expect Horford back this year. I don’t want him to rush back and get re-Injured, he is way too valuable to the Hawks!
Well, we got 15 games left. I’ll be glad when the post season is over.
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
1:50 pm
Budget Control!
“Mary, do you think there is a GM in the NBA that doesn’t have a budget they must follow? ”
__________
AJ, yes I do! Lakers, Orlando and Dallas. Two have won championships and one has won 5 in the past 10 years.
Astro Joe
March 28th, 2012
1:55 pm
I think some are confused about Joe playing off the ball vs. Josh being the focal point of the offense. Joe clearly is better playing off the ball. And it is especially true when he is at SF and is generally as if not more quick than the opposing player. Also, most opposing SFs are running off screens as often as opposing SGs, so Joe is able to save his legs (and his old man knee) for some late game heroics.
In the scheme of things, the Hawks won’t get past the 2nd round with Joe, Josh or Al in the primary scoring role. At this point, it is all about the better of several sub-optimized options. And (as I have said (ad nauseum), the only way to get a player better than one of the captains is to trade one of the captains.
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
1:56 pm
Real GM’s spend wisely or go home in round 2. They aren’t told to sell all their picks for cash and then, sign scrubs like:
Jason
Etan
Powell
Magnum
Pape Sy
Randolph Morris
We can do this all day. Real owners have lit scoreboards, not steak houses. Nor say, they are not for sale, then try to sell and, don’t sell. We could do that all day too. Hire the cheapest coach, not play their PG picks when they need a PG. Etc … Etc … Etc …………………
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
1:59 pm
Magic, Stan Kasten, et. al. Purc the Dodgers for 2B, too bad they didn’t want the Hawks.
Astro Joe
March 28th, 2012
2:03 pm
Mary, Dallas’ GM just sold off Tyson Chandler for some fish heads and rice while letting JJ Barea and Stevenson walk. Lakers did the same with Odom (essentially gave him away for old Kardashian videos). Otis Smith had money to burn while the Magic owners opened a new arena. I suspect that he will be constrained now that it is open. But you named 3 out of 30 teams and do you really think that the GMs created that budget freedom or do you think their owners granted that spending flexibility?
Here’s my guess, there is a 90% chance the ASG ask him to return this summer. That should answer all of your previously posted questions about his job performance. It is good enough to keep his job.
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
2:47 pm
AJ, I just answered your question … No disclaimers necc.
Eddie
March 28th, 2012
2:50 pm
The hawks are gonna turn it around tonight! With Deng and Rose out the bulls dont have a chance against the hawks! I think this is a great chance to take advantage of some solid bets, i have a multi team parlay for u that could make u some serious cash so come check out my blog, its free and cud help u a lot! http://nbawagers.com/2012/03/nba-upset-alert-to-use-in-parlay/
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
2:56 pm
Lux Taxes were used bountifully in a quest to be champions. Orlando didn’t win, but they tried … Tahts on Dwight! We have never spent $1.00, ever!
bigdave
March 28th, 2012
2:59 pm
those Dallas moves were all made in effort to free up salary to make a run at Deron Williams and potentially Dwight Howard. there was a winning agenda behind the wholesale..
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
3:16 pm
Section 303
March 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
DawgNole, no excuses? So, the Hawks have to go 66-0 this season? Be smarter than that. Don’t try and spin that the travel, games, and no recovery time is not a factor. Yes, all teams have tough schedules this year, but there is no telling how/when your legs will just not be there. It’s not a PS3 game.
Also, the injuries? Those don’t factor in? ……..whatever. I could go on and on with this. It’s statements like “no excuses” that give the blog world a bad name. But, …..carry on being slow.
______________________
Don’t twist my words. Nowhere did I say the Hawks should go 66-0 this season. And I’ve spun nothing about the effects of travel, games, and no recovery. In your only sensible remark, you pointed out that “Yes, all teams have tough schedules this year . . . .” That in and of itself renders the travel/games/no recovery excuse invalid. ALL teams are enduring these conditions. ALL teams.
For the millionth time, ATL pro sports fans have been hearing these same whiny-azz excuses for nearly a half-century–thanks to whiners like you, who can always justify failure. They’re no longer valid–and haven’t been for quite sometime.
I think you have it backward: It’s not the “no excuses” (after 45 years) folks who “give the blog world a bad name”; it’s the whiners and excuse-makers. You of all people should know that.
OK, I’ll “carry on being slow.” Meanwhile, you can carry on with your excuses–that’s what losers do.
Rod from College Park
March 28th, 2012
3:18 pm
High-sider,
Thanks for that post. Pretty much confirms what I thought and what O’Brien posted. Joe averages around 20 or more points a game against the dregs of the league, except for Boston, and Denver, and drops well below 20 ppg against better competition.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
3:22 pm
Those are legitimate questions you have posed for Sund, DrMaryB. Can’t wait to see the tough ones. Unfortunately, as you suspect, I don’t think anyone with access to him would have the integrity to speak on behalf of the fans by actually asking him for truthful responses to them.
Rod from College Park
March 28th, 2012
3:26 pm
vava74,
My bad. You are correct you did not call Willie Green and Pargo losers. You actually liked Willie Green, and thought he was just as good as Jamal, and just thought that Pargo was never good, and will never be good. (LOL) The LOSER tag was strictly for Jamal Crawford and TMac.
“vava74
December 21st, 2011
6:04 am
Buddy,
That’s right: Pargo’s career FG% is well below .400!!!!
It’s quite incredible that he has been in the league for so long shooting .388 and without any discernible play making skills.
Last year, we could not find steady minutes for Teague because he allegedly “could not shoot” but this year we will be giving minutes to a guy everyone knows he can’t shoot (better, always shoots, regardless of any consequences, so he takes horrible shots).
If Jamal was Drew’s cocaine, then Pargo will be his met-amphetamine…”
Rod from College Park
December 22nd, 2011
5:43 pm
vava74,
What you need to do is stop looking at stats all the time and watch games. It similar to your dislike for Horford now. When you tell someone outside of Atlanta some of Horford’s weaknesses which we all have seen you post, they will say Horford is an all star, and his stats look good. If you watch games or played the game at a high level, which you did not, you can sometimes see past stats. Marvin’s stats don’t look bad, but he is a bad basketball player. Again before his injury, Pargo was becoming very good, and then he injured his knee. Pargo when healthy was a very good backup point guard, who had the ability to play some two. He was a very good ball handler, low turnover rate, and could knock down open shots (the ones that Marvin misses). He was also a very good player at Arkansas. Willie Green is a totally different player. Not a good backup point, but very scrappy. If you think Pargo, Jamal Crawford, TMac are all out of control low bball IQ talents, but Willie Green is above average, then we really don’t need to debate at all.
vava74
December 22nd, 2011
6:06 pm
Rod,
You are amazing!!!
“Again before his injury, Pargo was becoming very good, and then he injured his knee.”
We are talking about a guy who – for his career was shooting below .400 (BELOW POINT FOUR HUNDRED) and was “becoming very good” at the age of 28 (TWENTY EIGHT).
I am repeating the stats in words since you seem to have a huge problem dealing with numbers.
ummm…
And this same guy – averaging below .400 (BELOW POINT FOUR HUNDRED) from the field – “…could knock down open shots (the ones that Marvin misses)” – The same Marvin who is aged 25 (TWENTY FIVE) this year – that averages .452 (POINT FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY TWO*) from the field – and that will never “become a good basketball player”.
* Note: .452 is better than .388 and Marvin also has been injured but it seems that injuries are only good excuses for guys you like…
With this I am not saying that Marvin is good, only that Pargo clearly ISN’T and NEVER WAS GOOD.
He is a talented guy who does not know what the expression “shot selection” means. More or less the same way that you seem to ignore that .388 from the field is WORSE than .452.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
3:27 pm
Astro Joe: “Here’s my guess, there is a 90% chance the ASG ask him [Sund]to return this summer. That should answer all of your previously posted questions about his job performance. It is good enough to keep his job.”
_______________________
“It is good enough to keep his job.” There you have it in a nutshell, AJ. The performance of a loser who never reaches the ultimate prize (NBA title in ATL in this case) is “good enough to keep his job.” Some things never change.
Sautee
March 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
“There are NO excuses for that level of ineptitude, and acceptance of losing by you and too many others will only help ensure that sports history repeats itself in this city.” – Dawgnole
First, you were correct that I shouldn’t have told you to celebrate the range of views on the blog, even if I think that it’s a healthy thing. Pot calling the kettle black. My apologies. I still think you are crossing the line when you tell another blogger: “you SHOULD HAVE said X”. I crossed that line, too, but two wrongs don’t make that ok, by me.
Second, please answer yes or no: Do you think Ivan’s game last night was laudable?
Thirdly, is there ANYTHING between “making excuses” and noticing good effort? For you, if they don’t win, are they beyond complimenting? I just don’t get that.
Fourth, if you think the Hawks are such a lost cause, why do you even watch the games and come here?
Rod from College Park
March 28th, 2012
3:45 pm
vava74,
Just to add that if it came down to me picking Pargo or Jamal Crawford shooting a wide open jumper to win a game, or Marvin Williams, who shoots a better percentage from the field than both of them, I would take Pargo or Jamal any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Kind of like Joe’s stats, great agianst bad teams, and below his average against the good ones.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
3:56 pm
Sautee
March 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
“There are NO excuses for that level of ineptitude, and acceptance of losing by you and too many others will only help ensure that sports history repeats itself in this city.” – Dawgnole
First, you were correct that I shouldn’t have told you to celebrate the range of views on the blog, even if I think that it’s a healthy thing. Pot calling the kettle black. My apologies. I still think you are crossing the line when you tell another blogger: “you SHOULD HAVE said X”. I crossed that line, too, but two wrongs don’t make that ok, by me.
Second, please answer yes or no: Do you think Ivan’s game last night was laudable?
Thirdly, is there ANYTHING between “making excuses” and noticing good effort? For you, if they don’t win, are they beyond complimenting? I just don’t get that.
Fourth, if you think the Hawks are such a lost cause, why do you even watch the games and come here?
___________________
I have no problem with you suggesting that I should celebrate the multitude of viewpoints on here–except that it came on the heels of your criticism of my suggestions about what other bloggers should think. As you noted, pot calling the kettle black. To answer/respond to your questions:
First, I don’t believe either one of us crossed the line on our suggestions. They represent our opinions–nothing more–and certainly they don’t obligate anyone to accept them.
Second, when someone qualifies a question (re Ivan) with “please answer yes or no,” it means they don’t want to deal with an alternate point of view. You might want to stop reading now. Instead, go back to your post that generated this discussion; in it, you said “their (i.e., the team’s) effort was laudable.” After 45 years, I have to disagree–they lost another game. That will never be laudable to me. As far as Ivan’s individual performance, yes, it was excellent–but that’s irrelevant in the context of our conversation.
Thirdly, yes, there is something between “making excuses and noticing good effort”–unless you’ve been hearing the same excuses, and seeing the same results, for 45 years.
Fourth, I “watch the games and come here” because I’m a longtime, passionate fan of all ATL pro teams, and I want them to win very badly. I’ve simply grown weary of the excuse-making and those who condone/promote it. May have been acceptable in their first year, or second, or third, or 15th, or 19th (get the picture?), but it’s NOT acceptable anymore–nor has it been for quite some time. Only losers continue to make excuses and accept losing after 45 years.
Slimjr
March 28th, 2012
3:59 pm
ESPN: Just in , Amar’e is going to be out 2-4 weeks! Guess he’ll be back for the playoffs? Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!
Melvin
March 28th, 2012
4:07 pm
Where is Manny T? This is canniblogism at its best…..
Melvin
March 28th, 2012
4:11 pm
Slimjr,
If the Knicks are better the Hawks (I believe that’s your view), shouldn’t they play above .500 ball while Amare is out?
Grandad
March 28th, 2012
4:15 pm
Late to the party:
Mr DawgNole sir;
Having been a Hawks fan about as long as anybody,
and about as frustrated as anyone,
I really do not see the relevance of why 150 yrs of losing as a city
-or-
45 yrs of no championship as a Hawk,
makes me a poor fan.
Original Hawks fans have died over 45 years.
Same for Braves, Falcons, Chiefs, Flames, et al.
Others have moved away.
While in the meantime, hordes of northern oppressors
have overtaken our city and state.
Seemingly calling themselves fans of the local franchises.
Now, with all that change,
the ownerships, front office personnel, GMs, managers,
and coaching changes that have occurred during this time period;
you wish to put the blame at the feet of the fans.
I must laud your imagination sir.
As laughable as it may be.
lawdy, lawdy, lawdy.
I was heartened by Ivan`s performance last eve.
Josh was workmanlike.
Zaza didn`t have his legs [yes, I defend Zaza] the *’`Georgian Warrior`’*
Joe
Teague
Marv; flash then gone
Kirk played hard, worked on defense
Hawks didn`t have it last eve within this brutal NBA schedule
____________________________________________
Slimjr
March 28th, 2012
4:20 pm
Melvin: I sure hope they can.. Lin is out tonight against Orlando with the knee again. Hope he can get back by Friday.
Friday Night Fights!
Hawks got the beat down last time these two teams met in February(99-82)
Hopefully Larry will use his bench wisely and squeeze out a win this time against his mentor and friend Mike Woodson…
atl dominique
March 28th, 2012
4:21 pm
All hawks haters should be band from this blog the hawks are in Atlanta to stay we played 3 games back to back and 4 ots and still almost won last night good job
Slimjr
March 28th, 2012
4:24 pm
Scroll ^^^^^^^^
Crack is Whack! “Whitney Houston”
Najeh Davenpoop
March 28th, 2012
4:38 pm
“With teague’s 3-pt shooting % being so bad for March, it is reflected in his game. I see alot of hesitation when he is open for the 3, sometimes passing it up only to take a contested jumper (from in the paint) instead.”
True. I also think part of the reason for the hesitation may be that he is consciously trying to be a pass-first player. You see that sometimes when he drives inside as well. His last turnover yesterday came on a play where he drove into the paint and tried to dish it instead of going up for the floater.
Sautee
March 28th, 2012
4:40 pm
DawgNole,
Thanks for the answers. One more for you:
Do you believe that it’s possible to play an excellent overall game and lose?
Actually two more: What years were you in Athens? I was there from 70-82, and before that, I played some pickup ball with Herbie White in Decatur in the late 60s. He also used to come to Stegman and play pickup games in the summers in Athens. It was great fun if you played on his team. Not so much if he was an opponent.
OK, one other clarification:
Sautee
March 27th, 2012
10:14 pm
Good effort. Not enough, but good effort.
____________________
What you should be saying is a good effort is NOT enough. NO excuses.
——————————————————————————————–
Why, because I didn’t word it to your expectation, does it become an excuse?
Did I excuse the Hawks for losing? NO, I said their effort wasn’t enough. HTF is that an excuse?
Najeh Davenpoop
March 28th, 2012
4:57 pm
“Tonight, if the game is close towards the end, Chicago will simply put Deng man to man on Joe, and Joe will not be a factor.”
Of course, Deng will be matched up on Joe much earlier than that since Joe will start at SF.
Against some of these teams that have a forward that can take either Joe or Josh out of the game (Boston with KG on Josh, Chicago with Deng on Joe) I’d like to see them try a bigger lineup. Teague-Joe-Josh-Ivan-Zaza. Post up Josh on SFs and Joe on SGs. I stole this idea from Leuer’s mom but it has some merit.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 28th, 2012
5:01 pm
“No way Kobe, Wade, Durant….let Mike Dunleavy shut them down at the end of a game. I don’t care how tired they are. It won’t happen. JJ is paid like a superstar. A superstar should never let Mike Dunleavy, or Monte Ellis contain them down the stretch. ”
True, but some of this is on LD. Joe should have been getting touches in the post, where he was dominating earlier in the game. From my recollection he got zero touches in the post in the 4th quarter. The Hawks got jumper-happy and lost. You don’t live by the jumper, you die by the jumper. Monta is tiny and would have been dominated by Joe, and Dunleavy’s length wouldn’t have helped him that much since Joe is much stronger and would have just bodied him.
Big Lou
March 28th, 2012
5:04 pm
Hawks should win tonight. No Rose? I don’t see them winning at the highlight factory without him. They match up too well. I think it will be +5 Hawks.
Slimjr
March 28th, 2012
5:05 pm
Hawks win tonight in overtime
Najeh Davenpoop
March 28th, 2012
5:07 pm
Joe would post up Hamilton all day, Josh can handle Deng in the post, Ivan would make Boozer sh-t his pants, and Zaza can battle Noah.
Go bigger against the Bulls.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
5:29 pm
Grandad: “I really do not see the relevance of why 150 yrs of losing as a city-or-45 yrs of no championship as a Hawk, makes me a poor fan.
“Now, with all that change, the ownerships, front office personnel, GMs, managers, and coaching changes that have occurred during this time period; you wish to put the blame at the feet of the fans.”
__________________________
It’s more than 150 SEASONS (not years) of losing. And never did I say you were a poor fan; don’t put words in my mouth. Nor have I blamed the fans, per se, for the city’s pro team failures. Take a look at my posts from 9:56 a.m. and 3:22 p.m. and see if that looks like someone blaming the fans.
What I struggle with is ANYONE who–after nearly a half-century of mediocrity–CONTINUES to make excuses for (and condone) anything less than a championship. And who CONTINUES to be satisfied with “good” performances and early playoff exits. All of this becomes a nonissue when and if the team(s) claims a title. But the longer these organizations make excuses w/o a single championship (other than ‘95 Braves), the more hollow the excuses become. There’s simply no longer a place for them in ATL; hasn’t been for many years.
Big Lou
March 28th, 2012
5:37 pm
“Ivan would make Boozer sh-t his pants” Najeh
I laughed so hard when I read this.
I would love to see Ivan jerk at Boozer and make him flinch. Lol
Big Lou
March 28th, 2012
5:39 pm
That sounded so wrong after I re-read that.
Sautee
March 28th, 2012
5:39 pm
DawgNole,
I can’t let this one go:” First, I don’t believe either one of us crossed the line on our suggestions. They represent our opinions–nothing more–and certainly they don’t obligate anyone to accept them.”
I disagree.
If your “suggestion” was indeed your opinion, could you not have said “I would have said X?” Or any number of things that indicated your response was your opinion.
Instead your “suggestion” was that I SHOULD be saying a good effort is NOT enough. That “should” is what irks, because there is NO indication from you that it was only opinion, and not the imperative it seemed to be. You could have added IMHO, or said “here’s what I think”, but you chose the imperative. It made you come off as all-knowing, and arrogant, though I do not think that was your intention. Once again, this is to let you know how your post seemed to me, and why I was bothered. BTW, this pot has apologized to the kettle but hasn’t heard a single word back.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
5:48 pm
From Sautee: “Do you believe that it’s possible to play an excellent overall game and lose?
“Good effort. Not enough, but good effort.
____________________
“What you should be saying is a good effort is NOT enough. NO excuses.
——————————————————————————————–
“Why, because I didn’t word it to your expectation, does it become an excuse?
“Did I excuse the Hawks for losing? NO, I said their effort wasn’t enough. HTF is that an excuse?”
____________________
Yes, you can play an excellent overall game and lose. Irrelevant, though w/respect to the Bucks game, which was far from excellent.
Your reference to your perception of the Hawks’ performance against the Bucks as “good” IS an excuse because you used a key word you omitted in your rebuttal: “but” (i.e., “not enough but good effort”). After 45 years of “not enough,” ifs, ands, or buts have no place here at all. There’s no longer room for ifs, ands, or buts concerning this team. We’ve been getting those–and NO championships–for their entire time in ATL. It’s way past time to take the next step and quit making excuses.
I lived in Athens from 1968 to 1971, but returned there regularly for nearly 40 years because my parents (and my wife’s) lived there, and my two daughters graduated from UGA. Pretty cool that you got to see Herb White in action “up close and personal.” He was an amazing athlete who broke through many of the old stereotypes associated with basketball. So did you dunk on him? Cmon, Sautee, don’t be modest now.
Section 303
March 28th, 2012
5:51 pm
DawgNole, you’re not smart.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
6:03 pm
More from Sautee: “DawgNole, I can’t let this one go: `First, I don’t believe either one of us crossed the line on our suggestions. They represent our opinions–nothing more–and certainly they don’t obligate anyone to accept them.’
“I disagree.”
_____________________
You need to let it go, Sautee. Continuing to quibble about it is fast undermining your credibility. When I suggested that you “should” have worded the offending phrase differently, I took the risk of being misunderstood, and perhaps that’s what has happened here–although I’ve heard from no one else on it. I was playing word games and suggested you change the wording of your praise to make it less of an excuse and more of a statement of fact. Apparently you missed my point. This likely is not one that can be settled/clarified on a blog. I’m not willing to post my phone no. here, but if you are, I’ll be glad to give you a call. As far as not hearing a word back from me in a timely manner, I probably was compiling my 5:48 p.m. post. Also, despite appearances, I don’t spend all day on the blogs, and may go several hours between posts–and I’m only able to do that much because I’m recently retired. If I go back to work, you won’t see much of me. That certainly would be tragic, right?
Sautee
March 28th, 2012
6:05 pm
“Your reference to your perception of the Hawks’ performance against the Bucks as “good” IS an excuse because you used a key word you omitted in your rebuttal: “but” (i.e., “not enough but good effort”).” – DawgNole
Read my post again. It lauded their effort, not their performance, of which my perception would be that other than Ivan and Josh, the performance was abysmal. But there is a difference between effort and performance. One can give a good effort and still have a disappointing result. My comment on their effort was from the perspective that, since they had just played a 4 ot game, they had an excuse (in their heads) to give in, once falling far behind. I was pleased at how hard they tried in the face of fatigue. Yes, every team is fatigued, but many give poor efforts in that circumstance, which was my expectation. So I lauded their effort. If somehow that is an excuse in your brain, so be it. That was NOT my intention.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
6:05 pm
Section 303, you’re irrelevant, and we appreciate it.
Sautee
March 28th, 2012
6:07 pm
DawgNole,
contact me at estarleft@yahoo.com
Sautee
March 28th, 2012
6:12 pm
“Pretty cool that you got to see Herb White in action “up close and personal.” He was an amazing athlete who broke through many of the old stereotypes associated with basketball. So did you dunk on him? Cmon, Sautee, don’t be modest now.”
HA! I’m under 6′ with white man’s disease, so touching the rim was the best I could do, though I can palm the ball (long fingers), and could just barely get my wrist to the rim. I DID give Herbie some good alley-oops, though.
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
6:16 pm
Sautee
March 28th, 2012
6:05 pm
“So I lauded their effort. If somehow that is an excuse in your brain, so be it. That was NOT my intention.”
__________________
I think I’ve addressed this in my 6:03 post.
Thanks for the contact. I’ll be in touch this evening.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
March 28th, 2012
6:22 pm
DawgNole
“You have a problem with my suggesting what bloggers “should” say, then you proceed to tell me what I “should” celebrate. There goes any credibilty you may have had. Bloggers express their opinions–that’s what this is for–regardless of how I think they “should” feel. And that’s all my entries are–opinions. I’ve crossed no lines here.
If you think a “good” effort and the resulting loss is “laudable,” then you represent the very reason ATL’s pro sports teams have claimed only one championship in more than 150 seasons of competition. There are NO excuses for that level of ineptitude, and acceptance of losing by you and too many others will only help ensure that sports history repeats itself in this city.”
DAYUM! Saw this post at work.
OWNED.
DrMaryB’s Questions post was one of the best I’ve seen on this blog. Agree with every single point.
Don’t understand this though: “Will you do the fans a favor and just leave them alone after your contact expires?”
Has Sund ever paid attention to us?
And LOL @ people who think Sund should return and that he’s done a good enough job. LOL that’s the problem. He HASN’T DONE A JOB. HE HAS DONE NOTHING. HE HAS NOT MADE ANY MOVES TO MAKE US CONTENDERS.
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
March 28th, 2012
6:24 pm
The goal of every sports fan in the world should be for his or her sports team to win the ultimate prize – a championship.
How some of the people here cannot see this is just deplorable.
People on here are just praying we can get to the 2nd round this year and are praying for the best matchup. I guess it’s the norm on this blog to settle for mediocrity.
Glad that a select few of us rise above it. Go Dawgs
Slimjr
March 28th, 2012
6:30 pm
Red Alert Shields up Scottie: Why Captain, my scans indicate no ALIEN LIFE FORMS?
Northern Oppressors have invaded our airspace here in Georgia! Aye Captain!
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nick g.chgo.
March 28th, 2012
6:33 pm
Well rose out..hamilton probably out..i say bulls by 5..atlanta is a good team. Though
Slimjr
March 28th, 2012
6:33 pm
Scottie, is there anyway to generated a time warp bubble that will allow me to jump in and start over in the year 1912? I’ll check Captain, standby……..WTF????????????????????????????
Slimjr
March 28th, 2012
6:37 pm
Atlanta by 10 @ home!
DawgNole
March 28th, 2012
7:18 pm
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
March 28th, 2012
6:24 pm
The goal of every sports fan in the world should be for his or her sports team to win the ultimate prize – a championship.
How some of the people here cannot see this is just deplorable.
People on here are just praying we can get to the 2nd round this year and are praying for the best matchup. I guess it’s the norm on this blog to settle for mediocrity.
Glad that a select few of us rise above it. Go Dawgs
________________________
Gratifying to know that someone sees the performance of ATL’s teams in the same light I do, GM JeJe. I’m afraid we’re heavily outnumbered, but won’t change my feelings, and I don’t believe it will change yours either.
All I want is a championship–and no more excuses. With over 150 seasons of pro sports competion in ATL producing only one title, I don’t believe I’m being unfair at all–or asking too much.
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 28th, 2012
7:25 pm
Sund!
Yeah, Mr. Sund, why do you have a god-complex, I mean what have you done to contribute anything mentionable to the NBA and make it better?
Uggh Slick Rick, why do you talk down to fans and, treat us like we are idiots who can’t see, read and comprehend enough about basketball to know that we need a bonafide big?
If your hands are tied, then just say that then. We will leave you alone. But, your arrogance is wearing thin around these parts. We don’t like you!
___________
We love our Hawks, but they need help – will you please help them?
____________
I’m watching you, sir … do your job and stop pointing fingers, this core has given you all it’s got … there is nothing more they can do for you, so stop torturing them and, telling them to get healthy, they are humans not horses. So, look at the man in the mirror and fix your roster – be bold and do something big. If not, just leave.
Tell the ASKG to sell their team to someone who cares about NBA sports, on your way out the door. Bye!
bigdave
March 28th, 2012
8:20 pm
ZaZa opening fools up
The Truth
March 30th, 2012
12:14 am
“The Hawks’ defensive efficiency this year is higher than in any year under Woodson.” – Najeh
Defensive Efficiency – the number of points a team allows per 100 possessions. Currently the Hawks are ranked 7th and seeded 6th. The following teams are ahead of them per this link:
1 Philadelphia – seeded 4th
2 Chicago – seeded 1st
3 Boston – seeded 7th
4 New York – seeded 8th
5 Miami – seeded 2nd
6 Dallas – seeded 6th
As illustrated, the D EFFICIENCY ranking isn’t telling the true story of a team for a variety of reasons such as Strength of Schedule Ranking and performance against sub-par teams vs. performance against elite/good teams. It’s only showing the average D EFFICIENCY ranking against all teams played to date. As an example, from this listing alone, Boston and New York seem to be out of place. But in reviewing the Strength of Schedule 2011-2012, these 2 teams are ranked dead last (29th and 30th) of the 30 NBA teams in schedule strength per this link:
http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS
So Boston and New York soft schedule contributed to their high D EFFICIENCY ranking. Since we can’t break-out the D EFFICIENCY ranking for the sub-par teams vs. performance against elite/good teams, we can however examine the Hawks YTD D EFFICIENCY number (0.978) vs. their last game number (1.134) against the Bulls (BTW, the higher this number, the worse the team defense). If you just used the Bulls game as an example, the Hawks would be ranked the worst team in the league based on D EFFICIENCY number.
Of course this would be unfair to use one game to define the Hawks D EFFICIENCY ranking, but it shows how they drastically fluctuate when they play an elite team like the Bulls (probably most good/elite team for that matter).
BTW, I’m no Woody lover just stating the obvious; the Hawks Strength of Schedule 2009-2010 under Woodson was ranked 16th vs. 2011-2012 Schedule under LD is ranked 19th. Also, the 2010-2011 schedule under LD shows a ranking of 26th, almost the weakest in the league. So Woody had a stronger schedule than LD 2 years. As previously stated, stronger a schedule, affects the defensive efficiency ranking.