Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 103, Cavs 102
- The Hawks played hard after a lackluster start (especially Josh Smith) and Joe Johnson made some big shots. Jerry Stackhouse (!) balled like it’s 2001. The Hawks won, which can never be taken for granted in this league.
- But, honestly, that’s about all the praise I can muster for them after this one.
- The Hawks just made fewer blunders than the Cavs at winning time and escaped with a hard-fought-but-fortunate W. “I thought we were dead in the water down six with two minutes to go,” Larry Drew said. “I guess the basketball gods were with us. We made plays to finish.”
- I guess that’s one way to think about it, but one of the basketball gods had a strong resemblance to Byron Scott. He decided not to foul before Joe tied it with a clean look from 25 feet in regulation. “We figured we would just play solid defense instead of taking the foul,” Scott said.
- Neither did the Cavs pressure, blitz, deny, trap or do anything to disrupt Joe on that shot, the 3 he made just before that or the short J he made near the end of overtime. Compare that to the way the Celtics absolutely would not let Joe have a chance to beat them late in the game Monday.
- I just can’t believe the Cavs didn’t do something, anything to prevent Joe from getting clean looks with the game on the line and neither could Joe: “I really was surprised that I caught it and turned and I was that wide open. All I could think about was getting it up.”
- Joe needed one screen to get in position for the game winner. Antawn Jamison appeared to consider helping when Joe got closer to the basket but then decided it was best to let him take an uncontested 12-footer. “We gave them the game,” Scott said, and at least he included himself.
- Before all of that Drew had tried to one-up (one-down?) Scott by choosing not to to foul with the Cavs up 89-88 and about a three-second differential between the game and shot clocks. Kyrie Irving blew by Kirk Hinrich for a layup to score with 5.4 seconds to go and actually could have ran off even more time and left the Hawks with maybe a second or so.
- “I thought about [fouling],” Drew said. “But I made the decision to go ahead and defend. I didn’t think they take a shot at the expiration of the shot clock. I thought we would get another opportunity.”
- Zaza Pachulia blew another important layup and this time he was even more wide open than he was at Denver. Zaza had a good game otherwise and is having a career season but finishing at the rim remains the big hole in his game. Sometimes he looks like he’d rather be fouled.
- Drew: “I told him, ‘Big fella, I’m going to continue to come to you and I have all the confidence in the world in you. You’ve blundered a couple but it doesn’t change the way I feel about you.”
- Bad: Joe needed 19 shots for 22 points. Good: He made big shots, made five of six free-throw attempts and had six rebounds, five assists against zero turnovers and two (!) blocked shots.
- Josh settled for Js late but I’m inclined to cut him slack. He had little help on the boards (13 of Atlanta’s 26 defensive rebounds, four of its 11 offensive), was alone as usual defending the rim and nobody else was really making shots until Joe did so late in the game.
- Josh and some people around him think he takes too much flak from hometown fans. I don’t think that’s always true but it would be in this case if the focus is on his missed Js after had had nearly half his team’s rebounds, more than half of its free throws and played 51 minutes. “I’m tired as a mother[bleeper],” he offered before hitting the showers.
- Once again the Hawks faced a bad team and, instead of smothering them with defense, went ahead and tried to trade baskets. At least the Nuggets are a good offensive team. There’s little excuse for the way the Cavs came out scoring so easily. “We didn’t come to play in the first quarter and it gave them confidence,” Drew said. “We offered no defensive resistance. They scored at will.”
- The Hawks picked it up in the second quarter by getting steals and running. Josh started it off with eight straight points on drives or free throws and then Stackhouse (!) kept it going with a flurry of steals, passes, and 3-pointers.
- The Hawks had a game by then, though. A (rare) good start to the third quarter wasn’t enough to shake the Cavs, and Irving had a lot to do with that.
- Irving’s talent + Jeff Teague’s typically blase pick-and-roll D + Kirk Hinrich’s declining footspeed=problems for the Hawks.
- At least Teague had 12 points (6 of 9 FG), seven assists, four steals and just one turnover. Hinrich was 4 of 13 from the field with a couple short misses.
- Willie Green returned after missing 10 games with back and hamstring injuries. He played 15 minutes. “It felt OK, not great,” he said. “It’s just about continuing to monitor it and hope it continues to get better. I want to continue to get in rhythm.”
- Drew said Ivan Johnson will return to play against the Nets Friday and Marvin Williams could return: “We hope to get some bodies back.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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392 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
March 23rd, 2012
2:45 pm
“I’ll speak up for Vlad. He played real well at the beginning of the season offensively and defensively. But then he seemed to disappear for many weeks. But he is playing quite well again of late.”
Vlad has played well at small forward. The problem is that LD has played him too often at PF, where he is completely overmatched on D and on the boards. Marvin should be playing backup PF minutes while Vlad exclusively plays SF. Vlad’s ability to stretch the floor helps Joe and Josh by giving them more room to operate.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 23rd, 2012
2:51 pm
“Woody was let go because ownership wanted them to lose better. Had they actually wanted them to advance past the 2nd round, they would not have hired one of the lowest paid coaches in the league.”
No, Woody was let go because he wasn’t a good coach. LD was hired because the DASG cares more about saving money than advancing past the second round. Small but important distinction.
Rod from College Park
March 23rd, 2012
2:54 pm
“gdad i was not asking you to clarify anything, only rod in his assertions by “friends in the know” that doesnt add up with history or facts given. if you go back a reread it he was conjecturing a lot and never answered any direct questions about how the story dosent fit a time line or what really went down through the years. after all dont we have someone on this blog with “friends in the know” from phoenix selling us something like amare or nash coming and in trade discussions? heh heh”
This is the last I will speak on this. Doc, this is a blog, not an article published in the New York Times. YOu have not posted any facts, you posted an article from a 3rd party. That article does not give you facts about what happened between 2 men. I come on here as well as many other people, who might know players, coaches trainers… and give information and opinions. Some bloggers are believable, some are not. Some are knowlegable, some are not. You have the ability to make a determination to believe who and what you want to believe. If you go back and read all the post, the thing that will stand out is that you are the only person who feels like what I said is so far fetched. I gave you info that I had. If you don’t believe it, and want to get a timeline and know the exact day these thing happened, talk to Woody, or Drew. It’s obvious that something did happen between them, so you can make your own conclusions. I never said LD got Woody fired or any of the other things that you mentioned. Woody was not fired, his contract was up, and he was not resigned. According to you, LD never had a formal interview until after that happened. So I guess you feel like that is the first conversation that LD had with ownership. Let me let you in on a little secret. Formal interviews many times are mere formalities. Believe it or not. Trust me I won’t lose any sleep if you don’t. I can remember 3 or 4 years ago being one of the only bloggers saying that Marvin was a bust, and he was not better than Josh based on my personal experience, and guys I knew in the league who told me he was terrible. Wonder who was right on that opinion. If you don’t believe it, life will go on.
Grandad
March 23rd, 2012
2:57 pm
doc
I missed one post
I needed you to clarify?
I was not pandering to anyone.
I was not saying Wdsn protected LD.
I only threw in my sit to illustrate loyalty.
If one coach is disloyal ;;; and I say ” if ” ;;;
that is a hard obstacle to overcome.
If one does not have a strong Belief and Faith
then Forgiveness is one of the most difficult chores
for mankind.
‘`Now if anyone has caused pain, he has caused it not to me,
but in some measure – to all of you.
For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough,
so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him,
or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.
So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him`’ II Corinthians 2:5-8
‘`Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander
be put away from you, along with all malice.
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another,
as God in Christ forgave you`’ Ephesians 4:31,32
I was able to forgive.
I do not know Mr Wdsn nor LD`s faith;
nor do I know how it would come to bear upon their profession.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 23rd, 2012
2:57 pm
“Had Woody coached the 2010 – 11 Hawks, we could’ve conceivably won the division last year.”
Wouldn’t have meant much if they got swept by Orlando in Round 1.
Woody got fired because he had no offensive game plan and never made adjustments. Enough with the history rewriting. LD, for all his faults, has done two things Woody never came close to doing: a) solving the Dwight Howard problem and b) winning games in the 2nd round. Give me LD over Woody any day of the week.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 23rd, 2012
2:58 pm
“With no Bibby around, who knows how good of a defensive team the Hawks could’ve been the following season.”
If dumbass Woody would have played Teague in his rookie year, who knows how good of a defensive team the Hawks could have been in 2009-10.
Woody only has himself to blame.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 23rd, 2012
3:00 pm
“Beyonce: 30 years old, banging body, Country girl shy
Rihanna: 24 years old, banging body, Caribbean-crazy”
Beyonce: forehead
Rihanna: sixhead
Sautee
March 23rd, 2012
3:02 pm
northcyde,
I suggested last spring that Marvin may be better suited to coming off the bench as a 4. I was pilloried for it, but I still think that’s where he could help the most. No he doesn’t have a back to the basket game, but he still is a thick 6′9″ with a long wingspan, and could be a good rebounder if he focused on just that. And God knows we need rebounding help.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 23rd, 2012
3:03 pm
” And he was imploring Horford to continue to develop his mechanical post game.”
LOL. This would be somewhat believable if, you know, he ran plays for anyone other than Joe or Jamal.
Grandad
March 23rd, 2012
3:07 pm
Najeh
2nd That
LD has an offensive game plan.
No more Iso-Joe *[for the most part]
LD actually has designed plays after TO`s
Lester Conner plays ‘`multiple`’ defensive schemes.
Lest ye switch on every screen.
Hey Najeh – we agree !
How `bout that !
Rod from College Park
March 23rd, 2012
3:09 pm
“The reality is that the ASG had to make a major decision. Re-sign Woody at a higher price than his lat contract, or promote his assistant and pay him a Dollar Store salary. They chose to do the latter.”
I don’t agree with northcyde much lately, but he is correct with this statement. The strange thing about the Atlanta situation is how many
times have you seen a coach be in a city for a couple of years, improve the team every year, get them to the playoffs on a consistent basis, publically clash with one of the star players, have the team quit on him in the playoffs for whatever reason, ownership say it’s time we go in a new direction, and then hire his lead assistant? Even if it was about money, why hire the assistant, Why not have a clean slate? Management stated that it was Drew’s relationship with the players. That should tell you all you need to know. Don’t think it was any backdooring huh? LOL
northcyde
March 23rd, 2012
3:10 pm
And Grandad . . the Hawks are worse on BOTH ends of the floor, compared to the 2009 – 10 season.
Big Lou
March 23rd, 2012
3:10 pm
“You guys are so funny … But, hey – it’s all ‘PINK’ on the inside. The heart wants what it wants. LOL at all the big talkers.” drmaryb
Lol. You nasty.
northcyde
You got a good sense of humor, man. Now I see why you’re a Marvin fan.
northcyde
March 23rd, 2012
3:11 pm
Well not both ends . . just on the offensive end. The end that Drew was supposed to help us the most.
Grandad
March 23rd, 2012
3:13 pm
Sautee
Throwin` this name at you !
Andrew Nicholson – St Bonnie … *’`(more to come)`’*
Will be available at18 through 22
-or-
wherever we draft ?
Been watchin` film and I am High on this kid.
Big Lou
March 23rd, 2012
3:13 pm
“Beyonce: forehead
Rihanna: sixhead” Najeh
I’m not having sex with her forehead, yo. She does have that LeBron forehead, though.
northcyde
March 23rd, 2012
3:19 pm
I’m a Marvin defender, not necessarily a fan. I just understand ( just like I understood with Woody ), that the vast majority of criticism that he receives is unfair. The dude gets criticized even when he plays well. I’ll defend him when he plays well. Not hate on him just to be hating on him, like 85% of the fan base does.
People actually think that Vlad is better than Marvin. In what season? Not this season.
Rod from College Park
March 23rd, 2012
3:20 pm
For the record, I am not a big fan of Woody or LD as coaches, but I do think Woody will make some noise with that Knick team. If he does not stay in New York, he will do enough to get another head coaching job. Also for the record, LD’s offense don’t look much better than Woody’s.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 23rd, 2012
3:20 pm
“just on the offensive end. The end that Drew was supposed to help us the most.”
That #2 offensive ranking under Woody in ‘09-’10 was a mirage and Orlando exposed them. That team wasn’t a great offensive team because they had great players or got great shots every possession. They were a great offensive team because they sent everybody to crash the boards and rack up offensive rebounds.
In other words, Woody’s philosophy was if we can’t be good, at least let’s give ourselves more chances than the other team.
The problem with this is that the Hawks were severely undersized. If your offensive success is based around offensive rebounding, and you go up against a bigger team that is really good at defensive rebounding, you are screwed. This is what happened against Orlando.
Knowing what we know now, maybe the Hawks could have been competitive in the 2nd round if Woody had gone with a big lineup against Orlando (start Zaza or Collins) and continued to send his front court to the offensive boards. But that would require making an adjustment, which Woody was completely incapable of doing.
Instead of the smoke and mirrors approach, maybe Woody could have, you know, designed plays. Maybe he could have called for more post ups (Josh was a really good passer out of the low post even back then). Maybe he could have played the young first-round point guard who, even then, was the only player on the team who could break down a defense off the dribble. With all those players going for the offensive board, even if Teague missed most of his floaters and layups, there would have been plenty of players near the rim for the put back.
I was at Game 3 and Game 4 of that 2nd round series, and I saw a team that knew it was going to lose from the tip. And the reason for this was because Woody had no answer for anything the Magic did. When your coach is so thoroughly outcoached for an entire series (and this wasn’t the first one — that Bucks first round series only went 7 rounds because Woody was outcoached by Skiles) it is time to make a change.
Just because LD was the wrong choice as a replacement doesn’t mean Woody was the right choice to keep around.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 23rd, 2012
3:22 pm
“Hey Najeh – we agree !
How `bout that !”
Haha. We agree more often than you think, Grandad. I really only vehemently disagree with you when you start posting trade scenarios.
Rod from College Park
March 23rd, 2012
3:23 pm
“People actually think that Vlad is better than Marvin. In what season? Not this season.”
Vlad does not trip over his own feet, fall every other play, and get blocked by samller defenders, the bottom of the rim, or the backboard everytime he drives. Besides that, Marvin might be better.
doc
March 23rd, 2012
3:25 pm
i agree as well with how ld has been an improvement over woody though it didnt translate into totap wins becausei for one think and thought the east was much improved and continues to improve personel wise. the 53 wins were a bit of an aberition based on a down competitive year. though disappointed in choice ld was a bit of an upgrade for in game management.
rod, that was an article from the sacramento newspaper not some joe blow and again sekou’s article is in not found land so not blowing smoke. still living off marvin’s decline for street cred? too funny, man.
Big Lou
March 23rd, 2012
3:25 pm
It was a joke, northcyde. Lighten up. You have to admit that you chuckle when he tumbles and gets blocked.
doc
March 23rd, 2012
3:29 pm
rod, said the same about both coaches during this discussion and agree with your 3:20 post completely.
Grandad
March 23rd, 2012
3:30 pm
northcyde
09 /10;
With Jamal 6th man of the yr; a hlthy Al,
a hlthy Joe, hlthy Josh, a younger Bibby,
Zaza, Mo, Teaguer, & Marv
-compared to-
11 / 12;
Al out for season; Joe missed a boatload of games & still hobbled;
T-Mac = rickety?; Josh has nutted up when Joe don`t play;
Marv surgery = cured physically but did not have a talent transplant;
Zaza has been remarkable (still he`s Zaza); Kirk inj early [month];
Teaguer inconsistent, but at least we know he ain`t no pg;
Did I mention Al out for season ?;
others inj; V-Rad; Willie Green; Pargo; Collins; Ivan missed time;
T-mac again & again; Marv !
Now seriously;
under these conditions do you really wish to compare ?
That`s an unfair comparison;
not to mention the compressed season after the lock-out
with no [zero] training camp.
Slimjr
March 23rd, 2012
3:44 pm
“OK man. All I’m saying is that you may end up on the First 48 messing around with those types of females. And not as the suspect . . but as the victim.
First 48 Announcer: “Atlanta . . . 10:16pm . . . A man and a woman is heard arguing in the Techwood Dr. parking garage across from Philips Arena after a Hawks – Knicks game . . . When Atlanta Police arrive at the scene, they find a man in a pool of blood with multiple knife wounds to the head and chest area . . and a stiletto lodged in his eyesocket . . . DEAD”.”
He must have been a Hawk fan and She a Knick Fan?????????? WTF………..
Or maybe he should not have said “Whats up Shorty?” to one of them fine sisters in front of his girlfriend and pissed her off to no end! Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He should of ran to the other side of the island.. Shoot…………….
BTW, A stiletto heel lodged in his eyesocket will kill ya every time…Run……
HawkEye
March 23rd, 2012
3:49 pm
As bad as Marvin is, Jason Collins makes Marvin look like an all-star. Marvin can give you some points and maybe a few rebounds. Collins can’t give neither.
Rod from College Park
March 23rd, 2012
3:59 pm
I think the east was much tougher when Woodson was here than it has been since LD been coaching. Just my opinion.
doc
March 23rd, 2012
4:05 pm
rod that was before the three amigos, tt to bulls and rose coming of age, amare to knicks collins to sixers celts over knee to garnett, resurgence in indiana. wow incrrdible to say it was tougher as we were better than celts even that year with only the queen cavs and magic in our path to the finals. that was a missed op and in no way was the east tougher then or did i misread? wow.
Big Lou
March 23rd, 2012
4:06 pm
All Collins can do is consume limitless pockets of oxygen while his excessive and redundant mass of protoplasm ripples from his time killing trek up and down the court.
Slimjr
March 23rd, 2012
4:14 pm
Shoot if Marvin had me checking him in his try out session with the Hawks, Billy Knight would not ever drafted that cheer leading azz. I would have sent his layup attempt with my left hand back to my hometown da Bronx! LOL!
Legend has it, he never missed a shot in his 1st tryout.. Right…………
If BILLY KNIGHT blocked Larry Drew from moving on then that scenario adds to the his legendary status as one of the most arrogant minds in the NBA at that time.
Slimjr
March 23rd, 2012
4:16 pm
doc and rod, been swinging..You guys tired yet? LOL
Rod from College Park
March 23rd, 2012
4:32 pm
doc,
Top 4 seeds 2008
Boston (World Champs)
Detroit (Former World Champs)
Orlando
Cleveland
Top 4 2011
Chicago
Miami
Boston (Old World Champs)
Orlando
I’ll stick with my belief that the east was tougher then. LOL
Rod from College Park
March 23rd, 2012
4:36 pm
“rod that was before the three amigos, tt to bulls and rose coming of age, amare to knicks collins to sixers celts over knee to garnett, resurgence in indiana. wow incrrdible to say it was tougher as we were better than celts even that year with only the queen cavs and magic in our path to the finals. that was a missed op and in no way was the east tougher then or did i misread? wow.”
Have the three amigos, or rose won a championship that I was not aware of? doc, your slipping. Age catches up with us all.
Melvin
March 23rd, 2012
5:37 pm
Rod,
Did the Hawks win 53 games in 2008? If not, I don’t think that’s the year doc was referring to when he said the east was weaker than.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 23rd, 2012
6:03 pm
Twin will start for Zaza tonight. Twin vs. Shelden. A battle for the ages. Cheeseburger vs. Hammerhead.
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 23rd, 2012
6:10 pm
Dream Girls!
“your choice.” -nortycyde-
_________
Ugggh … Beyonce IS married and, IS a Mom. Move on fellas … No choice available here. (see Jay-Zee)
Rod from College Park
March 23rd, 2012
6:12 pm
Melvin,
Hawks won 53 in 2010. I’m not sure what year doc is referring to, but it really does not matter. It won’t change my opinion, which can be backed up with facts that the east was stronger when Woody was here. He might have an argument on one of those years, but thats it. When Cleveland and Boston were on top of the division they both won 66 games. Chicago led the division last year with 62 wins. Plus as I pointed out you still had former world champs the Pistons, and Boston to deal with. Orlando had gone to the finals as well. Chicago and Miami today have accomplished nothing.
drmaryb.[*_*].
March 23rd, 2012
6:20 pm
Paula Abdul!
“Shoot if Marvin had me checking him in his try out session with the Hawks, Billy Knight would not ever drafted that cheer leading azz. I would have sent his layup attempt with my left hand back to my hometown da Bronx! LOL!” -slimjr-
__________
Uggh … I believe they put a chair under the basket so, Marvin was defended by a four legged hinderance. He excelled! Wow! What a work out he had from the 8 stooges and The Black Knight!
The Truth
March 23rd, 2012
6:21 pm
That rod guy dont never talk about ish..lol and whole the east was better back then theory was terrible..Then on top of that, the comparison of the top four seeds was horrible and goes to show how much of an idiot you are.
And oh yeah, get off marvins jock..You bring nothing to this blog!! Get lost!!
Najeh Davenpoop
March 23rd, 2012
6:32 pm
“When Cleveland and Boston were on top of the division they both won 66 games. Chicago led the division last year with 62 wins”
This doesn’t necessarily prove that the East was stronger then. In fact if anything it might prove the opposite, since it’s quite likely that Cleveland and Boston’s win totals were inflated by being able to beat up on a weak conference.
I don’t think comparing win totals is going to tell you much one way or the other. The better way to look at it is to compare the 1 seed in that year to the 1 seed this year, 2 seed then to 2 seed now, 3 seed then to 3 seed now, etc. and see which year has the better teams that way. Obviously this is going to be a little subjective, but I don’t think there’s a much better way of looking at it.
In the ‘09-’10 season, when the Hawks’ win total peaked, the 5-8 seeds in the East were the one-man Heat, the Bucks who took that year’s Hawks to 7 games in the first round, the Bobcats who got swept by Orlando, and the Bulls pre-Thibodeau. I am pretty sure the Hawks — currently the 6 seed in the East — would beat all those teams in a 7 game series. If Woody didn’t take two weeks to adjust his switching defense, it wouldn’t have taken him 7 games to beat those Bucks in the first place.
The top 4 teams that year were Cleveland with LeBron, Orlando with Dwight, the Hawks, and the Celtics who eventually won the conference. Again, I’m pretty sure the current Heat would beat any of those 4 teams in a series, and the current Bulls probably could as well since Thibodeau’s defensive scheme is ideal for beating teams that overly rely on one scoring option like that year’s Cavs and Magic. In fact, Thibodeau’s defense in Boston did beat the Cavs and Magic in consecutive series in that year’s playoffs.
At least in my opinion, this year’s 6 seed is better than that year’s 5-8 seeds, and this year’s 1 and 2 seeds are better than each of that year’s top 4 teams. Subjective, yeah, but I’d say the current East is tougher than the ‘09-’10 East.
Michael Cunningham
March 23rd, 2012
6:47 pm
new blog posted. shutting down this thread.