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298 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
February 28th, 2012
3:14 pm
pointguardslim,
A SF is supposed to have better handles than a PG. Josh handles the ball well for a PF, and does lead the fast break sometimes. But too often, it turns into a bad possession.
Also, Josh’s jumper from 16 feet out is terrible. So as a SF, wont be spend even more time on the perimeter? That is not where we want him to be.
If Josh would commit himself to staying in the paint, then I might be more open to him playing SF. But his jumper mentality, plus shaky handles for a SF (he leads the break, but is not good at beating his man off the dribble), and I dont want him chasing SFs around the perimeter, I want him defending bigs in the paint and helping on defense suggests to me he is a PF (although he does give up some size).
Why not try Smith at the 3 and see if he “beasts” and gets more FTA and commands doubles etc..
I don’t know if I want Josh taking more FTs. Dude is shooting 55% from the line this year
O'Brien
February 28th, 2012
3:14 pm
* I meant better handles than a PF.
KevinM
February 28th, 2012
3:18 pm
Based on our team’s limitations with the salary and creativity, if there was a way to move both Marvin and Kirk at the deadline, I would be thrilled. That is a lot of cap hit for what they have provided so far.
Stretch, that Marvin rumor sounds like last year’s rumor to a T after the Shaq deal was laughed at….and if Chris Grant was responsible for drafting Marvin, Cleveland should fire him immediately. What a shambles of a move and Sund trumps it by not using the market to set his value.
He did the same thing with Joe and Al and that was a huge mistake. Yes, I know they’re all-stars, but they are the most marginal all-stars in all-star history. I would say Kaman is as good an all-star as either Joe or Al.
oldmike, Chris Singleton of Florida State was taken by the Wizards at #17.
Sautee
February 28th, 2012
3:19 pm
oldmike,
The Wizards used the pick we traded to draft Chris Singleton out of FSU. Good defensive wing who can guard multiple positions.
KevinM
February 28th, 2012
3:22 pm
One thing that will not work in this league is D12 and Josh on the same team. Neither one can shoot a FT, yet, they can tally up a quantity of them….Can you imagine the opponent at the end of a game? They would be licking their chops at that option.
Seriously though, if there are any changes that are being considered of any significance with this team, Josh will have to be moved. Al and Joe aren’t going anywhere.
O'Brien
February 28th, 2012
3:22 pm
Ra’mon,
Josh is the energizer on this team. But isn’t it frustrating that he doesn’t bring “it” more often? I think he is the most talented player on this team (right up there with JJ), but Josh does not come close to maximizing his talent (imo). He is inconsistent, and is part of the reason why this team is inconsistent.
That being said, I think the ASG needs to shake up the core. Most big name players dont want to play for the ASG, but I think the problem is more than just ownership.
Does anybody want to play for Donald Sterling or Vinnie Del Negro? Nope. But yet, K-Mart signed there, and the Clips were also a finalist for JR Smith. Why is that? They have Blake Griffin and CP3. The Hawks dont have players who other players really want to play with (I dont count Dwight wanting to play with Josh, who is his long time friend).
Grandad
February 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
Mary Ellen
Rondo will get in KG’s face; Pierce’s face; Ray Allen’s face;
used to get in Perkin’s face; even had the nuggets to get in
Tony Allen’s face … that’s why the players respect his
fiery demeanor.
That and the fact: he is the QB; the one who has control over
who gets the ball and when.they get it.
A lesson that would be beneficial for young Teaguer.
I’m not sure that Doc wishes to trade him ?
Danny Ainge is the one who appears hell bent on trading Rondo.
O'Brien
February 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
KevinM,
If the rumor was true at the time, Hawks should have done the SNT of Marvin for Shaq. Marketing would have gone up, we would have had another big (although he got hurt and didnt play well), but most importantly, it would have saved us 2 years on marvin’s contract. But ASG is afraid to take risks.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
3:26 pm
Anyone out here in blog land know the name of the player taken with our traded 1st rounder in the Kirk/Bibby trade.
—–
“We were able to acquire a proven, clutch leader in Mike, a hard-nosed veteran in Maurice, and an intriguing prospect in Jordan, as well as a first round draft choice to add to our own first round pick this summer,” said Grunfeld. “This trade continues our plan to build with draft picks and by developing our young players while staying financially flexible.”
——
Wizards selected the 6′9 (classic tweener) Chris Singleton, a soft tall guy that some ATLiens were clamoring for.
18 Chris Singleton
19 Tobias Harris
20 Donatas Motiejunas
22 Kenneth Faried
25 MarShon Brooks
38 Chandler Parsons
39 Jeremy Tyler (if he ever becomes a PF and gets mature watch out)
40 Jon Leuer
41 Darius Morris (lol)
47 Travis Leslie (shoulda coulda woulda)
48 Keith Benson
Grandad
February 28th, 2012
3:29 pm
vava
We should have taken Yi in the 1st round.
Horford is so devoid of skill and heart;
not to mention destitute of any athleticism whatsoever.
that we could have picked him up in the 2nd round.
O'Brien
February 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
Grandad,
How much of Rondo’s leadership can be attributed to Doc giving him the reins early on, and showing confidence in him no matter what (even publicly). Not to mention the fact that the Boston trio knew how to play the game the right way, and listened to their HC.
Hawks have 3 captains with much longer tenure than Teague, and at times they didnt listen to Woody or LD. Not to mention the Hawks culture does not compare to Boston’s (imo).
Also, LD was wishy washy on Teague last year, and if it wasnt for Hinrich’s injury, he probably wouldnt even be starting, so Teague had a confidence issue from early on, part of which I think is due to the Hawks culture (who ranks where).
So I can understand Teague being leadership shy. However, going forward, he does need to come out of his shell, and not worry about what the vets think. Call them out. Run the team. Step up.
KevinM
February 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
Whoever was suggesting Andray Blatche, please..that isn’t helping us going forward….his deal is worse than Marvelous. He doesn’t look like he gives us anymore than our guy does….
We’re better off getting a min vet in place of Marvin/Kirk….I’ll take trade exceptions for both at this point.
Sautee
February 28th, 2012
3:38 pm
Grandad is getting trolled. Again, and I’ll likely be next.
The 3:29 post was definitely NOT Grandad.
Grandad
February 28th, 2012
3:39 pm
pointguardslim
That was not some Atlantians;
that was primarily me !
I’ll take the Heat – bring it.
I also said if we could trade Josh:
Take Kawhi Leonard.
Secondly; I changed to Faried after the tourney.
He [Faried] is still not a complete player;
but;
he -is- a Rebounder !
Singleton is a defensive Specialist:
Can guard the [1] through the [5]
yes;
all five positions.
No;
he cannot guard some [1's] nor all [5's]
but
he is a multi-faceted defender being wasted in Washington.
Would be a gem on a contender:
much like Kawhi Leonard in S.A.
Now – know your stuff before you come on here with some half -ass trash.
SteveW
February 28th, 2012
3:39 pm
As much as I like Pargo, and too a lesser extent Hinrich (liked him a lot better last season), I’d deal for Sessions in a heartbeat and ditch Hinrcih for whoever I could. Good teams need 48 quality minutes per nite from the PG position. We would have 2 very good young PG’s, both with a different skill set, who would set ATL at the PG position for the next 5+ years.
With both Teague and Sessions at PG, we would be very difficult for opposing teams to match up with, both on O and D.
I’d do that trade all day long.
Najeh – Man, you haven’t been reading my posts – been saying that schedule stuff for days.
Al had brutal surgery – drilling holes in his arm to put muscle thru kinda stuff. I don’t see anyway possible ASG puts Al back at the 5 when he returns. He was playing more down low this season, and got brutalized after less than 11 games.
Whether the solution is to move Josh to the 3, Al to the 4, and get a compliment for ZaZa at the 5 (Hinrich for Brad Miller and Anthony Randolph? Or Ridnour if we don’t get Sessions?) – Or if it’s to trade either Horford or Josh, I think Al’s days at the 5 are over, at least on a consistent basis.
I saw Josh some last season at the 3. But that was 30lbs ago. I would love to see what he does now. And forget about him shooting too many J’s from the 3 spot. He shoots too many from the 4 spot already, so that’s probably not going to change. If anything, he may feel he can post up opposing 3’s, and venture inside even more.
So is say trade Marvin for Sessions – give them Pargo if need be – even though I really like Pargo – better than I ever thought I would.
Trade Hinrich for Miller and Randolph. Move Josh to the 3, and give the man a new contract while your at it.
And play:
ZaZa/Miller/Damp/Collins at the C
Randolph/Ivan/Vlad at PF until Horford comes back, either late this season or next
Josh/TMac/Stack/And some Vlad at SF
JJ/Green
Teague/Sessions
If you’ve got to take Ridnour in the ‘Wolves/Hinrich trade – I saw they’re trying to move him – do it. Give them a 1st pick if need be – let Sessions and 22 year old Randolph be your 2013 1st pick so to speak. All the better.
I think if you get Horford back, you’ve got a stout team right there.
Now if you don’t think you can sign Josh, that presents a problem. I say you don’t let him walk for nothing.
I just see no plausible trades involving Josh right now. Unless you flipped Josh and Ridnour in the above scenario.for Gasol or something – but that’s a whole other story right there.
Let’s win a Championship!!! Quit competing for top 4 in the East, and let’s do this thing!
SteveW
February 28th, 2012
3:47 pm
Saw Pryzbilla re-signed with the Blazers – good – Heat doesn’t need anymore help. Their tough enough to beat as it is. Team to beat in the East in my opinion.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
3:56 pm
Grandad, You really think you’re the only one in Atlanta who suggested Chris Singleton?
I think you’ve gone senile.
Melvin
February 28th, 2012
3:58 pm
I wouldn’t mind Session on this team. Send Marvin to Cleveland for Session/Ryan Hollins. We would get a serviceable PG and 7ft C for a mediocre SF. Get it done Sund…
Sautee
February 28th, 2012
4:06 pm
Melvin,
In a NY minute.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
OBrien. You’re pigeonholing him based on stereotypes instead of looking at the facts.
Josh Smith played the 3 last year against Luol Deng (playoffs) and Paul Pierce (regular season).
A SF is supposed to have better handles than a PF.
Tell that to Marvin Williams. Then tell that to Rick Sund.
Here’s Josh Smith 30lbs ago playing SF in a big lineup. Show us where any of these conjectures come into play?
O'Brien
February 28th, 2012
4:10 pm
Melvin,
The deal that should have been made for Sessions was at last year’s trading deadline (imo). And I dont think he would have required Bibby, JC2 AND a first round pick to get a deal done.
But the reasons I think Kirk was traded for instead of Ramon, is:
1) Kirk has a better jumper 2) Rick Sund has a crush on players he drafted or wanted to draft. 3)he ASG probably liked the fact that Kirk’s contract expires this year (I think Ramon’s expires next year).
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
4:14 pm
SteveW, I like your post.
O’Brien, Josh seems to ‘bring it’ more than any other player on the Hawks the last 2-3 seasons. Josh’s defensive consistency is better than anyone’s offensive consistency on the team. And Josh’s offensive consistency is better than anyone’s defensive consistency on the team, not named Joe (and Pargo, I love the pressure he puts on people). Josh’s rebounding consistency is better than anyone’s rebounding consistency not named Al.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
4:16 pm
O’Brien, the deal that the Hawks missed was dealing Jamal last trading deadline to a Western contender, or even to Chicago.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
4:20 pm
seems I missed the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yajcf-RCaZ8
Melvin
February 28th, 2012
4:32 pm
OB,
In my trade scenario above, the Hawks would actually save 2 mil and they would still have Kirk expiring contract that could be flip maybe for another asset like SF Stephen Jackson or the Lakers TPE/pick…
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
4:35 pm
Darius Morris has looked like garbage every time I have seen him this year, but I’d gladly do Kirk for the 1st rounder. If they want to throw Morris in the deal, that’s cool too.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
4:38 pm
Melvin, I’d rather have TPE compared to S. Jackson.
If you cut Kirk’s salary, and reduce Marvin’s salary slot to Sessions. You may have enough to make a run at Wilson Chandler! I’d be willing to sign Chandler for 4 years $30 million, knowing he’s a much better upgrade over Marvin.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
4:41 pm
“He was playing C and there aren’t any really good centers, so Al was good enough to get in.”
I like Al, but this is true. Al made the All Star team for the same reason Hibbert made the All Star team — because the East really only has one great center.
Since Al’s best asset on offense is his jumper, and Josh’s size makes him better suited to the 3, maybe Leuer’s mom’s idea can be implemented with Al extending his range farther out and Josh posting up opposing 3s?
I still think the Hawks’ base alignment of Josh at the 4 and Al at the 5 can and does work fine against at least 25 teams in the league. But against the teams where it doesn’t, if Al extends his range and Josh plays inside, it could work to slide them down one spot.
Grandad
February 28th, 2012
4:45 pm
pointguardslim
No;
but I was the 1st on this blog & I took alot o` crap for it.
Senile – maybe ?
As for Singleton;
I’m gonna run point against your thesis a moment ago … ^above^.
Other than that; ‘`Have a Nice Day`’
sincerely,
G-dad
_____________________________________________
post script;
Marshon Brooks; admittedly, much better than I expected.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
4:47 pm
” In my opinion, Teague is closer to Barbosa (Grandad’s comparison) with a game predicated FIRST on speed and drives to the hoop. ”
Barbosa is selling Teague a little short. The entirety of Barbosa’s NBA success came under D’Antoni’s system. Teague right now is a better point guard than Barbosa has ever been.
Teague is a more athletic Tony Parker. Look at Parker’s shooting percentages, assist/turnover per 36 minutes, etc. from his first few years, and they are very similar to Teague. I agree that Teague isn’t the playmaker Rondo is and probably will never be, but that doesn’t mean he is doomed to be a scoring combo guard like Barbosa. Teague is capable of developing into a good point guard.
drmaryb.[*_*].
February 28th, 2012
4:50 pm
Tweeners!
Boy do we have a team back loaded with tweeners. The only poition that is solid is: SG. Everyone else is a combo player. If we had a Real GM and a Real Coach, perhaps these players would know their defined roles and game plan night in and night out. We have never had a great coach for this core! See ASKG.
Do we re”ly know what we have and what they can re”ly do in a bonafide offensive/defensive structure.
Fantastic blog today, all these comments are stellar. Nice.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
4:51 pm
“Wizards selected the 6′9 (classic tweener) Chris Singleton, a soft tall guy that some ATLiens were clamoring for.”
Singleton’s skill set is limited, but from what I have seen he is nowhere near “soft”.
Regardless, judging a traded pick based on who the other team picked with it doesn’t tell the whole story. The Hawks missed out on every player that got picked after Singleton, like Leuer’s mom points out. I would have taken Faried, who is basically a more talented, more athletic version of Ivan with much greater upside.
drmaryb.[*_*].
February 28th, 2012
4:53 pm
Greyhound!
Put Marvin on the next Greyhound Bus headed towards the downtown connector and the Grady Curve. Bye! The last time I saw Marvin, his butt was so big, I thought a crowd of people was chasing him. It looked like he was headed towards the airport. LOL
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
4:57 pm
“If you cut Kirk’s salary, and reduce Marvin’s salary slot to Sessions. You may have enough to make a run at Wilson Chandler!”
I don’t think so. Even if the Hawks do that, they would be either over the cap or right at the salary cap line (which is different from the luxury tax line). Can’t sign anyone to more than a mid-level ($2.5m/yr) deal unless you are under the cap.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
4:59 pm
I wouldn’t mind doing Kirk for Stephen Jackson and Marvin for Sessions+Erden in two separate trades. Jackson’s contract expires a year before Marvin’s, Jackson is a better scorer than Marvin, Sessions is a better backup PG than Kirk and Pargo, and Erden is at least as good as any backup big man the Hawks have on the roster. I’m pretty sure both those trades are doable.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
5:02 pm
Here we go.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8xnlfeh
I realize Jackson is a risk, but the Hawks need another scoring option other than Joe, and Jackson is a hell of a lot better at that than Marvin.
The big problem with this is that Marvin has consistently rebounded well this year and trading him for Jackson weakens an already weak area for the team. The solution to this, in my opinion, has to come from coaching. LD has to send Joe and maybe even Teague to crash the boards. At Joe’s size at his position he is fully capable of being an above average rebounder, and part of the reason for him not getting more boards is probably scheme related.
drmaryb.[*_*].
February 28th, 2012
5:02 pm
At this point, and for the love of basketball – just make a TRADE damnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I need someone new to pick apart … I’m so tired of beating these same old second round horses! LOL
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
5:07 pm
Najeh, the Hawks would still be over cap if they cut over $12 million from the books this season? Lol, that just prove how bad of a gm Sund is, lol.
Melvin
February 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
Najeh,
We are basically making the same trade except you have Erden coming back with Session instead of Hollins. I would prefer Erden but I thought the Cavs were high on him and he’s being paid less than a mil so I was sure if the Cavs were willing to deal him.
drmaryb.[*_*].
February 28th, 2012
5:11 pm
Wilson Chandler cleared by FIBA to return to the NBA. Lamar Odom has requested a buy out from Dallas, he is not happy there. We need some ballers man … We don’t need no more losers! I’m tired of bits and pieces being drug in here.
Where is the BEEF? And, don’t say The RED Restaurant either. LMBAO!!! Rondo, Pierce, Garnett? Come on do something splashy.
How many of yawl believe TMac might be packaged with Marvin? I sure hope not. It’s time for Drew to join the UE line. We need a great coach, man! Call Fratello, Larry Brown.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
5:21 pm
did blog monster just eat my post
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
5:25 pm
“We are basically making the same trade except you have Erden coming back with Session instead of Hollins. I would prefer Erden but I thought the Cavs were high on him and he’s being paid less than a mil so I was sure if the Cavs were willing to deal him.”
Yeah, I was just combining your trade with the Jackson trade. I’d prefer Erden too.
And really, if the Hawks agree to take on Jackson, the Bucks are trying so hard to get rid of him that it’s not out of the question that they may throw in a pick. Maybe not a first rounder, but even a second rounder is a valuable asset. A second rounder would give the Hawks 3 second round picks, including two near the top of the second round, which may allow them to trade back into the late first round if they find someone they like.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
5:26 pm
Al isn’t ever becoming a stretch 4 capable of hitting 3s btw. He’s been working on that for 2/3 years.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
5:28 pm
#Hawks C Al Hoford out of sling. Could be cleared to start rehab Wed. Hopes to return this yr. “That’s my expectation.” How about this season?
KevinM
February 28th, 2012
5:28 pm
Najeh, if that was the best option, then yes, go get Jackson in place of Marvin.
If that will put Josh back in the paint, I am all for it.
This would be a major move in Sund’s eyes, and I’m not even sure he would go for it….
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
5:30 pm
“Al isn’t ever becoming a stretch 4 capable of hitting 3s btw. He’s been working on that for 2/3 years.”
Why not? If Ryan Anderson can be a stretch 4, why can’t Al be a stretch 4? Ryan Anderson isn’t any more athletically or height advantaged than Al.
Grandad
February 28th, 2012
5:39 pm
I remain steadfast.
I like Barbosa.
Therefore; a comparison of Teaguer to LB;
would represent a compliment in my eyes.
Michael Cunningham
February 28th, 2012
5:40 pm
new blog posted. shutting down this thread.