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Layups R Us
February 28th, 2012
8:16 am
Hawks need to do whatever it takes to trade for a legitimate power scoring center. That’s the foundation to winning.
Layups R Us
February 28th, 2012
8:17 am
Gasol,Bynum,Howard,Kaman,get a center Hawks !!!
vava74
February 28th, 2012
9:07 am
Just Joe,
Last year was an aberration: Al was left free due to poor scouting during the regular season.
In the playoffs neither ORL nor CHI gave him the same space and since his mechanics are slow and without any lift, those easy shots quickly became massive bricks.
This year EVERYONE had caught up with Al’s jumpers and stopped giving him the space he needs to hit those so he was back working down low (at least that is what I saw).
The harsh reality is that anyone that thinks that Al is anything more than an average PF is kidding himself.
Al’s game is to be an undersized, mobile and active C who makes up for his average D at the rim with good rotations, closeouts and pick ‘n roll D FROM THE C slot.
DeeDog
February 28th, 2012
9:16 am
Najeh Davenpoop
“B- sounds about right. I’d probably give the players a solid B+ because they have exceeded the expectations I had for them after Al got injured. I give the organization a C- for sitting on their hands the last month and not proactively acquiring a big man, and LD deserves a D for screwing up the rotations by handing Kirk minutes for no reason and insisting on playing small ball against bigger teams. All of that probably averages out to a B-.”
Finally!!! Someone speaks the truth. I can’t stand Kirk H. He slows the game down, he can’t make a open jumper consistantly, and his defense does not balance the rest of his game. Pargo was playing great before he came back and Larry Drew just move Pargo to the back of the bench and stuck Hinrik in. We are much better with Pargo. I like him alot and think he is getting screwed!!!! Trade Marvin and Hinrik fast.
Astro Joe
February 28th, 2012
10:03 am
Wasn’t Horford like in the top 2-3 bigs in the league shooting from the 16-23 foot range? I think he was up there with Dirk. I don’t recall any issue with his overall FG% last year.
And I am pretty sure that he spent the off-season playing with the DR National Team. He wasn’t exactly chilaxing on the beach eating butterscotch krimpets.
Lastly, if anyone believes that Horford is incapable of evolving his game, then why have I never read the same concern for Josh? Aren;t they the same age? If there remains eternal optimism that Josh can either improve this skill or that skill, then why can’t Horford likewise evolve?
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
10:10 am
Hawks have the toughest strength of schedule over their last 10 games in the league. They are 4-6 over that time. The Nuggets, Blazers, and Sixers have also struggled over the last 10 against tough schedules, but the Magic and Grizzlies have managed to continue winning.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 28th, 2012
10:13 am
Also, the Pacers and Bulls are the only two Eastern Conference teams whose home/road games played splits are more unfavorable (the difference between number of road games and number of home games is greater).
With all the Hawks’ struggles, maybe as they play more home games and the schedule gets easier they can move back up in the standings. They are only 1.5 games out of the 3 seed.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
11:01 am
O’Brien, I disagree so much with your view of the Al being in shape. And on the first game of the season, it didn’t appear Al was in great shape then either. It just seems all of the things that got Al the contract, is what Al stopped doing AFTER signing the contract. You speak of blue collar. But we haven’t seen blue collar Al since 2-3 seasons ago. Blue collar Al wouldn’t have gotten out worked by Noah (remember Al used to OWN Noah at Florida, but not in the playoffs?). You say Al was in shape but not in basketball shape. But isn’t he a basketball player? Why wouldn’t he (a team captain) be in the best shape to do his job, when not around the team? Especially after Sund and Gearon says this is a make or break season for the ‘core’? Even Marvin was in great shape.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
11:17 am
AJ, before this season, the problem with Al always looking for his jumper too much, is it took him out of position for any offensive put backs. Before this season, Josh wasn’t allowed to hit the offensive board as much, because both LD and Woody gave the transition defense responsibility to Josh. So when a shot goes up, Josh would have to get back on defense instead of crashing the board (partly because of Bibby and Crawford). Al’s rookie season he averaged 3.1 offensive rebounds a game. Al’s contract season, before the extension, he averaged 2.9 offensive boards a game. Last season, Al averaged 2.4 OR per game. that .5 and .7 is a huge difference in the course of a season.
And last season, Al committed 2.5 fouls a game. Dwight and Chandler were both over 3 fouls per game. I wouldn’t want my starters to commit LESS than 2.5 fouls per game for an entire season. How unfairly the referees treat the Hawks on an average day, you could barely swat at the ball or be outside of the restricted area, without them calling the foul on you. Yet Horford only committed 2 fouls a game even though he’s undersized or had to switch on point guards for most of the season? If you are coming into the fourth quarter of a close game with only one foul, you have to know ‘Ok, I have 3-4 fouls I can give to protect the rim, even if I can’t block the shot.’ But not Al, he go sit down in the locker room committing 1-2 fouls, after a loss thinking he did all he could do. Every since Al seriously injured (was it TJ Ford?) in Toronto, he’s been giving up layups in the lane more frequently.
Trojan
February 28th, 2012
11:29 am
How can it be all star break, be so close to the trade deadline, have a team with such obvious needs and shortcomings and there is still absolutely no rumors or rumblings on trying to improve the club.
How can there no acknowledgement from management on the search for help of these obvious needs?
Strange.
Dallas won the NBA championship last year and you constantly hear how they are trying to do more to win. LA is a very good club, yet you don’t hear that they are complacent, they are trying to keep a sacred core together.
It’s hard to be a Hawks fan.
vava74
February 28th, 2012
11:48 am
AJ,
Al was indeed deadly from mid-long range last year BUT that only happed because opposing teams took the WHOLE season to adjust their scouting reports.
Come playoff time, Al was crowded and could not get his shot off comfortably and bricked them.
Dirk shoots with elevation and fading so he can overcome adhesive defenses, making his shooting percentage from the same range incredible (also, he has been doing it for years and years with defenses focusing on him).
Al only shoots effectively when he is clearly open. His shooting motion is slow, low and mechanic.
There is nothing wrong with that, it’s very good that we have a big who can knock down the open jumper BUT that is completely different from Al being a dependable face up scorer.
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
As for Josh being able to improve his game more than Al:
Josh is physically more gifted and more explosive.
Al is solid physically – good speed for size, good strength – BUT he is not explosive.
Al’s first step is substantially slower than Josh, his jumping ability substantially weaker, his overall length is subpar when compared with the players he has to face.
So, there is no question that Josh can be a much more reliable scorer in the block.
Again, there is nothing particularly wrong with Al IF – big if here – our expectations and HIS expectations of what he can and should do are not blown out of proportion like they were last year.
Al should go back to be a blue collar player, a more offensively polished but also less strong version of Ben Wallace.
The Hawks’ offensive pecking order should be:
JJ, Smoove, Teague (I would prefer a good balance between the 3), with Al getting the garbage points and the open looks from kick outs and with whoever played the SF slot (or the SG slot if JJ moved to SF) covered by a good defensive player which hopefully would be a true knock down shooter which, contrary to Marvin, also had the ability to slash and dunk in a crowd.
TMACfan
February 28th, 2012
11:49 am
Trojan, there is a rumor trade with Cleveland.
ntrigue
February 28th, 2012
11:59 am
Hawks rumor….We trade hinrich to lakers for 1st round pick and for sg darius Moore
Astro Joe
February 28th, 2012
12:01 pm
Ra’mon, it sounds like most of your points were relative to Horofrd’s utilization as opposed to his limitations. Hawks have focused on transition defense under LD at the expense of offensive rebounding. Likewise, LD’s offensive design is (supposedly) about getting players better looks. it is clearly a jump-shooting offense more than one that truly leverages a ton of screens and picks and back-door cuts (we see some of that but less than some of us expected from a motion offese). Again, a new coach may ask Horford to do things differently and I personally don;t know if he could or couldn’t make the adjustment.
vava, athleticism is very, very important but so is discipline, hard work and the ability to stay focused. All of those are very important when discussing a player’s ability to evolve their game. Al will never have the explosiveness of Josh, but does that mean that he could never be as or more productive? Of course not.
MistaGamer
February 28th, 2012
12:07 pm
vava74,
You have made my point perfectly concerning Al. Al’s advantage is that he is playing the center position. Not many C’s, if any, can run and move around the half court with Al. That is where is mismatch lies. There are plenty of PF’s that can and that’s why Al tends to disappear when playing the PF position.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
12:13 pm
AJ, I don’t know if Horford has many limits. I don’t see him having the ability to create his own shot though. And I don’t see a true facilitator on the team who is a pass first guy. As I’ve said before, I don’t blame Josh or Al for many of their shortcomings, because their entire career has been under this organization and limited coaching. Al just doesn’t move fluidly to me on offense when he has the ball. He almost moves more like Robocop than a player. At the same time, who would’ve thought 4 seasons ago Zach Randolph would be the 2nd best PF in the game (when healthy)?
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
12:16 pm
Vava, I agree with your 11:48 Post.
Astro Joe
February 28th, 2012
12:17 pm
This is NOT a rumor, but an ESPN writer’s attempt at providing content for their website.
Here are five potential smaller deals that could have a big impact:
1. The Atlanta Hawks trade PG Kirk Hinrich to the Los Angeles Lakers for SG Darius Morris and a first-round pick (either the Lakers’ pick or Dallas’ pick from the Lamar Odom trade)
Why the teams should make this trade: The Lakers are in dire need of a point guard, and they’ve coveted Hinrich in the past. They possess a trade exception of $8.9 million acquired via the Odom trade, so they can absorb Hinrich’s salary. He is a versatile combo guard who is an excellent passer and can score. He owns a nice shooting stroke and would make teams pay for doubling Kobe Bryant or Gasol and Andrew Bynum in the post.
Hinrich also offers insurance if Steve Blake is injured again. He’s a tough, gritty competitor who would bring the defensive mentality Mike Brown loves. He could flourish in L.A. instead of languishing on the Atlanta bench, where he has lost traction as a result of Jeff Teague’s emergence.
The Hawks have to look around at their competition in the East and realize they do not have the pieces to beat the Miami Heat, Chicago Bulls or even the Philadelphia 76ers. Although they are currently 20-14, this team cannot make a deep playoff run with Al Horford out of the lineup until possibly April or May. The Hawks need a center, and by giving up Hinrich they would be able to either grab a big man in the draft or an asset they could flip to give them roster flexibility in order to trade for a big in the offseason.
Morris is a talented point guard who should have stayed at Michigan for another year. In time, however, he could be groomed for the starter’s role or serve as a valuable backup.
drmaryb.[*_*].
February 28th, 2012
12:23 pm
Ra’mon! Sup boy? I saw your three way trade with Rondo coming to the Hawks, however? Rondo ain’t going nowhere except for maybe CP3. Ain’t gonna happen, elite PG’s are NOT low hanging fruit and Boston will re-tool their new team around their best player at PG.
Move on Ra’mon … It was a nice dream though.
vava74
February 28th, 2012
12:26 pm
AJ,
“vava, athleticism is very, very important but so is discipline, hard work and the ability to stay focused. All of those are very important when discussing a player’s ability to evolve their game. Al will never have the explosiveness of Josh, but does that mean that he could never be as or more productive? Of course not.”
Wrong in all instances.
Discipline and focus will NEVER overcome certain physical and technical limitations.
Is Al, in theory, a more dependable player than Josh (due to Josh’s mental limitations)?
Sure, but it’s easier, IMO, for Josh to change his ways (with proper coaching) than Al to suddenly physically and technically evolve from where he is.
You can coach explosiveness and talent and Josh is both more explosive and more talented that Al.
Al, offensively, is mechanical, hesitant and that will never change dramatically.
As I said, nothing wrong with that IF he plays the C spot where others Cs are in general less mobile and less explosive than Al.
A good example is Hibbert who Al usually played well in spite of the 3” to 4” height differential.
BUT, when Al set his mind to play PF, that was a WRONG MOVE: he will never be a really effective PF in this league. NEVER.
Astro Joe
February 28th, 2012
12:27 pm
It seems to me that the judgment on Horford is coming based on a small window of performances this season and his inability to light things up in the playoffs. Personally, I wouldn’t cast him into a subordinate role based on those data points. Without elite athleticism, he is a highly skilled and productive player. Just like others wold benefit from a facilitator and improved coaching, so would Al.
BIG DOG
February 28th, 2012
12:29 pm
Hawks don’t need Sessions, only expire contract Jamison.
Share your trade
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cv5un38
vava74
February 28th, 2012
12:30 pm
“a more dependable”
SWAP for
“a more reliable” which is slightly different from dependable.
My view is that YOU CANNOT DEPEND ON AL to win games for the Hawks (well, he did it once against the Bulls and that was it) but you can depend on Josh to win games for the Hawks.
Josh has done that repeatedly with both his usually consistent wrecking ball D and his unfortunately “up n down” offense.
The bottom line is: WE NEED QUALITY COACHING to maximize the talent and the characteristics of this roster.
We will not get it from LD.
BIG DOG
February 28th, 2012
12:33 pm
Teague, Joe, Josh, Jamison, Zaza
Pargo, Green, Tmac, Ivan, Dampier
Vlad, Stacks
Hawks would be better on defense and bigger.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
drmaryb.[*_*].
February 28th, 2012
12:33 pm
Astro “Van” Joe! Sup sugar bunny?
Thanks for posting that kirk to Lakers article for us to chew on. I’ve lost my will to comment this past month, due to ASKG living up to the “K” in killer. I’m waiting for a real roster move to hop back on the blog band wagon.
Just grew tired of repeating myself daily and needed a time out from here. LOL! I’m ready for the next game though.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
12:35 pm
Dr.Mb, according to Stephen A Smith (just spoke this on First Take at 10:30 this morning and 12:29 just now) that Celtics are looking to move Pierce and Rondo. Hoopshype has Boston moving Allen and Rondo. CNNSi has Boston moving Rondo and Garnett. The common factor is Rondo. Doc Rivers and Rondo reportedly have a bad relationship. And it became even worse when Perkins was dealt. So I don’t believe Rondo is untouchable. Not to mention, if they trade Rondo, then adding D. Williams at the PG slot becomes a great possibility when you factor in Garnett and Allen’s contract coming off the board this summer.
vava74
February 28th, 2012
12:35 pm
AJ:
“he (Al) is a highly skilled”
Wrong again: Al is not highly skilled. Dirk is highly skilled. Beasley is highly skilled, Garnett is highly skilled, Bosh is highly skilled, Pau is highly skilled, …
Al’s skill set is AVERAGE. What Al is – or was in the past – is a HARD WORKER which overcame his lack of skill with a no nonsense / blue collar attitude.
Last year’s aberration (too many open looks) heavily contributed to a decay in his main characteristic and THAT WAS EXPOSED IN THE PLAYOFFS.
Get Al back in the paint, fighting and using his superior mobility to overcome his height and length deficit and give him the OPEN looks that may come out of the offense as “left overs”*, not as programmed touches.
* which could still be something between 3 to 5 long jumpers per game.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 28th, 2012
12:36 pm
Hawks aren’t good enough to beat Miami or Chicago in a series.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
AJ, I’ve felt this way about Al for over 2 seasons. Wasn’t it two off seasons ago that Sautee and myself battled about Al wanting to play PF instead of C for over a week. Also, I think Al is the Hawks best trade chip to get an all star player back in the deal.
BIG DOG
February 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
When AL and Collins comeback
Teague, Joe, Josh, Jamison, Horford
Pargo, Green, Tmac, Zaza, Collins
Vlad, Stack, Ivan
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
BIG DOG
February 28th, 2012
12:46 pm
Hawks has to become bigger and stronger on defense, with Teague and Josh on the Wing running could be scary.
Hawks are Rank 21 rebounding.
This must change.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
Astro Joe
February 28th, 2012
12:48 pm
vava, and I disagree with you. I don’t hink either Josh or Al are elite. No need to compare either to a future HOF or perennial All-Star. Neither will get there for different reasons. They are both “bubble All-Stars”. But that doesn’t mean that either are unproductive. I am certainly not arguing that Al should play one position or another… he needs to play the position that his head coach demands him to play. I think we all get caught up using elite players as the measuring stick for our players. If you aren’t either a young KG, Shaq, Blake or Duncan then you aren’t worht keeping. If you aren’t Kidd, Nash or CP3, they you are trash. If you aren’t Wade, Durant or Ray allen… why are you playing wing in the NBA.
IMO, Horford is a very good big relative to other bigs in the NBA. Better than most. I can’t dismiss 15/10 in a player’s 4th year as quickly as some of you all. That ain’t bad, I don’t care how it is achieved.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
Another thing about Al is, if Josh went down instead of Al. I don’t think this season, the Hawks would have as good of a record as they do now. And to be honest, the only reason we have to consider trading either one of them is because of Sund’s mistake of giving such a long contract to Marvin (who didn’t test the market), and his deal to Bibby (who ended up costing giving up 2 first round picks, and a good wing man just to get injured ridden Kirk). Those two deals subtracted, gives the Hawks all they need to complete this roster and add great depth over the last 2-3 seasons. And I believe THEN the Hawks wouldn’t have had to give such a huge contract to Joe. They could’ve handled losing him and Jamal.
Jody
February 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
To suggest that a guy who’s made two all star teams playing out of position is “average” is laughable and quite absurd. Yet, folks want to hang there hopes on a guy who often plays out of control and undisciplined.
O'Brien
February 28th, 2012
1:15 pm
Ra’mon,
Please remember LD’s 2 foul rule too, which Al was a victim of on numerous occasions in the first half. And when he came back in the second half, he was out of rhythm
I do agree that Al is not the same Al from 2-3 years ago, and I wish he would get back to that. But he did average 15 and 9 last year.
We criticize Al’s playoff performance last year (and rightfully so). But he was not the only one who struggled in the playoffs. Jamal struggled in the second round, Josh had his bad moments too. Speaking of Josh, These are Josh’s playoff 3-pt attempts.
’07-’08: 3-18
’08-’09: 2-15
’09-10: 2-6
10-11:3-24
What’s his excuse for continuing to shoot so many 3’s?
But despite Josh being in his 8th year, you haven’t given up on him being a better player. Al is only in his 4th year. So why give up on Al so quick?
I do agree that Hawks may have to trade Al or Josh (because nobody wants JJ’s contract for at least 2 more years). And for me, determining which one to trade will depend on who brings back the better package.
vava74
February 28th, 2012
1:26 pm
Jody
February 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
Jody, Al was selected to the All-star game for TWO main reasons:
1 – He was playing C and there aren’t any really good centers, so Al was good enough to get in.
2 – Al is highly regarded by coaches who select the reserves and make their selections based on their perception of “COACHABILITY”.
Horford WILL NEVER be an All-Star at the PF slot.
Josh was not selected this year because he is perceived as difficult to coach, not because of his production or his numbers.
If correctly read my posts, I gave sufficient praise to Horford, but I framed that praise within two major and essential guidelines:
AL HAS TO PLAY C to be of real worth.
AL HAS TO GO BACK to being the blue collar guy.
The bottom line is simple: he will never be a really good PF and last year he benefited from open looks which once the league caught up with him disappeared.
Al’s SKILL SET is average, which does NOT MEAN that Al’s production is only average.
Al’s production as a Center is/was GOOD, close to VERY GOOD, without being excellent BECAUSE of his hustle (which is decaying), not because of his “offensive skills”.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
1:30 pm
“I can’t dismiss 15/10 in a player’s 4th year as quickly as some of you all. ”
15 pts, 9.3 rebounds, 35mpg, 104 defensive rating (always several points behind the leader Smith)
He’s decidedly average.
Defensive roaming aside, the deciding factor why Josh Smith is worth anything is because he can be classified as a wing.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
1:38 pm
Al wasn’t a blue-collar guy when he got injured vs IND?
Al wasn’t a blue-collar guy when he got injured vs MIA in the playoffs?
Seems like blue-collar = “play around the rim”. Have any of you considered Al doesnt play around the rim to avoid injuries/physicality? Guy just had his arm socket shredded and people are telling him he needs to do more of it.
Are we really that naive? He’s a good guy but he cant play the C position the way we want and he’s average playmaker at the 4 position. Doesn’t “beast” get to the paint/FTA at either position.
Why not try Smith at the 3 and see if he “beasts” and gets more FTA and commands doubles etc.
The funny thing is Josh Smith seems to shoot less 3s as a SF than at PF. It seems at the PF position he gets a pass to use his perimeter play and at the SF their is a concerted effort to use his size advantage.
Smith at PF is a bad matchup. Here he travels and still can’t get scoring position and throws it away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=–0JWiMbo8A
Jody
February 28th, 2012
2:04 pm
Al has all the ability and tools to be an outstanding 4 (his natural position). The excuses for him making the all star team are lame and weak. Bottom line, he made the all star team because he played his butt off the right way while putting up good numbers out of position on a winning team. And remember, the Hawks didn’t sniff the playoffs until number 15 aboard.
Josh is a good player, but he’s not on the all star team because he doesn’t play the game efficiently despite what some of his numbers say. The whole coaches don’t like him argument is also weak. When he learns to play to strengths and not with an approach trying to be more than he is, then he may get consideration. But, that probably won’t be a worry for the Hawks seeing as how Josh is sure to leave in free agency after next season if the Hawks don’t overpay him to stay.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
2:16 pm
Al has all the ability and tools to be an outstanding 4 (his natural position)??
what? He has robotic moves in the post. He struggles to score outside of pick and pop…
Outstanding? No. That is the exact opposite of reality. Horford would not stand out at power forward.
———–
As for Smith being the most pivotal player on the Hawks, that’s apparently nothing new. Gearon remembers talking with players in December 2007, four months before Atlanta would make its first playoff appearance in nine years and take eventual champion Boston to seven games in the first round.
“It was the only time in my lifetime I’ve ever sat down with players alone and just sort of talked about stuff, and everyone back then was like, ‘Josh is the key (to the team),’ ” Gearon said of Smith, a six-year veteran who is 24 but was just 21 entering the month those comments were made. “Even then, people were like, ‘He’s the key.’ He does different things. The intensity rises for the whole team. It was interesting to hear that even back then.”
Gearon said he doesn’t mean to take anything away from Hawks All-Star guard Joe Johnson, who had a game-high 27 points against Milwaukee and averaged a team-high 21.3 points during the regular season. And one presumes he also doesn’t mean to take anything away from Atlanta’s other All-Star from last February, center Al Horford, when Gearon says Smith “deserved to be on the All-Star team as much as anybody on our team.”
—————-
drmaryb.[*_*].
February 28th, 2012
2:19 pm
Ra’mon
thanks for that info re: Rondo. I would have never thought he was touchable. Hmmm … I did hear Rondo was suspended from the team as he was named an AS replacement for Joe. i have heard that Rondo is very stubborn and had issues breaking into his starter’s role. Very interesting stuff becasue, he seems so Teague-Like personality wise.
Anyway, Ra’mon thanks for the inside scoop. If we can get Rondo, then i like your trade suggestion the best as opposed to the Lakers PG coming here.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
2:29 pm
O’Brien, I lean more toward Josh than Al, because I’ve seen more progression in Josh’s game than Al since entering the league. You say Josh is in his 8th season compared to Horford’s 4th. First, this is Al’s 5th season, not 4th. Secondly they are the same age. And while Josh had Woody for his first 2 seasons, Al had Billy Donovan. Whom do you think had the better coach to learn from?
You showed Josh’s 3 pt attempts from the post season. But tell me this, if you consider a 3pt attempt by Josh as a bad possession (no matter the shot clock situation). So with all the defensive pressure Josh provides during the post season (i.e. 3 blocked shots on ONE possession under the rim, while Al stands there and WATCH against the Bulls) that’s less than 2 bad possessions a game. I don’t know any coach who would say a game was solely lost on two-four possessions. But I do know many coaches who would say a game was won, or remained closed because of CONSISTENT defensive pressure. Josh battles on the defensive end. If I saw Horford still battling on defense, I could care less about his jumpers. Majority of Josh’s mistakes occurs from effort, even though he may made a mental mistake, the effort was there. How many times has Woody or LD said that Josh’s energy is what make this team go? Why would Josh’s energy be required for 11 other grown men to decide to be energetic? How many games have we seen that Josh kept the starting unit in the game in the 1st quarter, because of HIS play? Now how many has Al done that with? The play of Zaza (who would’ve thought) makes me feel that Al is easily replaced for a lot less than $12 mil a season. However to replace Josh, you’ll need 3 players almost, one for the rebounding, one for the offense, and one for his defense. Al shows me the energy that Josh brings, and I’ll back off of him. But over the last 2-3 seasons he hasn’t shown me that.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
2:30 pm
O’brien, also this is Josh’s 7th season, not 8th.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
2:34 pm
DrMb, I think Teague and Rondo are very similar. The difference that I’ve seen is huge in the confidence. Rondo doesn’t seem to allow his play to be affected by other’s comments (even if teammates) or bench play (he’s had Cassell, Stephon Marbury, and Nate Robinson take away some of his minutes). Also, I don’t see Teague attempting to have the assist numbers that Rondo has.
I even wonder if Boston would take Joe, a first round in 2013 and Teague for Rondo and Pierce straight up.
Ra'mon
February 28th, 2012
2:41 pm
And DrMB, I totally agree with you about hopping off this bandwagon. It seems being a loyal Hawks’ fan get you nothing but complaints and laughter. Especially when you consider how many NBA players make Atlanta their home in the off season. And none of them want to come play for the Hawks long as this ownership is in town. T-Mac still has a huge voice among other players. And in his first season here, he’s in the media complaining. Jamal toasted the leadership of ownership and management the entire off season. And the crazy part is each of the top players (Joe, Josh, Al) have many friends among the players. Yet they can’t recruit anyone with ASG, Sund, and LD.
Sautee
February 28th, 2012
2:49 pm
“DrMb, I think Teague and Rondo are very similar.”
I disagree Ramon. I think that Rondo is MUCH more clever with his playmaking than Teague, sadly, will ever be. In my opinion, Teague is closer to Barbosa (Grandad’s comparison) with a game predicated FIRST on speed and drives to the hoop. I’m not saying that Teague lacks vision, but I’ve yet to see him be nearly as clever as Rondo when he probes the defense. Not only that, but Rondo is a tougher defensive cover than Jeff.
He DOES have a better outside shot than Rondo though.
Enjoyable convo re: Al this morning. I see both sides. If Al gets his ass back in the paint, he CAN be worth his contract. I’ll be VERY interested to see how willing he is to battle inside post injury.
But I’d trade him just like I would ANYBODY on the roster IF it made us a better, and more balanced team.
STRETCH
February 28th, 2012
2:56 pm
NBA Trade Rumors: Hawks Interested in Ramon Sessions?
February 28, 2012 By Scott
With Cleveland’s reserve point guard Ramon Sessions playing at a very consistent and productive level through the compressed 2011-12 campaign, suitors are rumored to be lining up to hopefully acquire his services prior to the mid-March trade deadline.
The latest rumor has the Atlanta Hakws — looking to move small forward Marvin Williams — in the mix as they would like to upgrade their backcourt in hopes of another playoff run. Their current point guard, Jeff Teague, is averaging 12.2 points and 4.4 assists in 34 minutes per game. Sessions is averaging 5.5 assists per contest in three fewer minutes. Williams is averaging 9.0 points and 5.3 rebounds per game.
A Williams-Sessions trade would reunite the wing with a man responsible for drafting him with the second-overall pick in 2005 in Chris Grant. The rub in this specific instance would be that Williams, an upgrade over Omri Casspi, albeit marginal, is making over $7 million this season and would require additional assets from the Cavaliers if a deal were to go down; Sessions is making just over $4 million and, despite the team being under the cap thus skirting dollar-matching guidelines, it’s difficult to envision a scenario where the team would be willing to take on additional obligation.
The Los Angeles Lakers have also expressed interest in Sessions.
pointguardslim
February 28th, 2012
3:00 pm
Kevin Love is shooting and making 3 pointers and making FTA. Its possible to take and make good shots and still have low FG%.
(Smith has less shot attempts because he isn’t that good of a shooter)
Reference (TS%) True Shooting % so we can stop contradicting ourselves here.
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Re: O’Brien
You really can’t find anything Josh Smith can do against SFs?
I don’t know what you are arguing when its clear that Smith is goaded into jumpers and using his “shaky handle” as a 4. For goodness sakes he leads the fast break just to beat his man.
Not that Smith skills are as bad as you say but, playing Smith at the 4 plays into all those weaknesses you listed. That’s why this team is so maddeningly insane.
Josh Smith at SF becomes a star. His handles are shaky yet we tell him to play smallball where he often handles the ball out of the break to create a mismatch.
I don’t see how Smith’s “handles” become worse against SFs who he can get around and score. Or taking issue with his jumper
* you have a smaller person contesting it instead of a taller PF
* he can back his man down
* you have a PF and C crashing the boards if all else fails.
honest_abe
February 28th, 2012
3:00 pm
sautee – spot on comparison. if i may add to that rondo is a leader while teague is not. rondo was in a situation where he was the pg of a team with 3 potentail HOF’ers. he had to lead as well as try to keep everyone happy. teague can’t even lead this group of misfits, can you imagine him being the floor leader of the 2009 celtics? shiiiiiiii
oldmike
February 28th, 2012
3:01 pm
Anyone out here in blog land know the name of the player taken with our traded 1st rounder in the Kirk/Bibby trade? I don’t.