Atlanta Hawks: Knicks 99, Hawks 82

The Hawks had two choices when Al Horford went down. Either acquire a replacement big man to hold the fort — most likely by trading Kirk’s expiring contract — or use it as an opportunity to blow the team up and start the overdue rebuilding process.

As usual they sat on their hands and did neither.

I would say my usual piece about trading Kirk for a big man (which they should still do) but this game wasn’t lost because of lack of big man depth. It was lost because they didn’t feel like playing. When you get beat in every statistical category, no one player or facet of the game is the cause.

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The smartest thing for Arthur Blanks is to buy the Hawks and re do the dome and remodel that hole area.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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The air contests all of Marvin Williams’ “open” looks

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i will watch the game when I get off of work. i see jt only played 29 minutes, but led the team in scoring. I am also reading the game got out of hand at the end of the first quarter. That has been the problem the entire road trip. i say let Jeff play 40 minutes.

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I do with they fire Larry. over the last two seasons, we have had the most lopsided losses in the league. How does this happen. Get a real coach in here!. Remember Doug Collins was available when we hired LD! Turrible!!!! Hire someone fresh or even get Hubie to coach this team.

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Just looked at the boxscore. Discovered I scored as many points as Marvin. Too bad we didn’t use the amnesty clause. And I like Marvin.

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Show of hands, would anyone not trade Teague/Joe/Josh/Al for Lin/Melo/Amare/Chandler?

Would anyone not trade any combination of those Hawks for any combination of those Knicks?

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“They don’t care about the Hawks because they don’t have stars and don’t play the right way. Same with the Braves and Falcons for that matter.”

Disagree with that. The Hawks don’t play the right way and more importantly, don’t have elite talent. Braves and Falcons at least have young players with (wait for it) all-world “upside” like Julio and Heyward that makes them somewhat intriguing. Hawks players just, well, are what they are.

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Take the handcuffs off Teague drew! I said soon as Teague went to the bench early it was over I would have rode Teague like how ny does Lin drew has got to go! Steve Smith for coach!

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http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/12617/rapid-reaction-knicks-99-hawks-82

“After losing two out of their past three games to beatable teams, the Hornets Friday night and the Nets on Monday, the Knicks made sure not to let another easy one get away.”

Haha… Hawks should be an easy win.

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I thought the Hawks would lose every game this month. Looking like I will not be too far off on that prediction.

Will suck sitting in Philips tomorrow, watching them lose to Orlando. Dwight Howard might be my least favorite player in the league. Going to be tough to take…

I could do without Kirk Hinrich, by the way. He has been worthless. If Sund decides to trade him, he has my blessing. Hinrich is just a little worse everytime he steps on the floor. Ready to see him go.

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Ok, I sounded pretty fatalistic in my last post, after saying I wasn’t as fatalistic as some. But man, I’m just at the point I’d rather be losing with somebody other than Marvin Williams if we’re going to lose anyway.

Who said Marvin goes off when JJ is down? Missed it on that one tonite.

I actually thought the Hawks would either beat the Knicks, or at least keep it close, because the Hawks seem to do nearly the opposite of what one would expect.

Ditch Marvin first. But maybe nobody takes that contract, and I mean nobody – who knows?

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I’m even for trading Al – I just don’t know what you get for him, with the horrific injury he had. He can’t even begin rehab until around the 1st week of March, so you know his trade value would be down. Earliest he comes back is 3rd week of April or so – best case scenario.
But if the Jazz would take Al for Favors and Kanter, I’m up for that.

And Josh is playing his best BB right now, ever. Just in love with the J, that’s all – and ball handling sometimes, and a few other things. But he’s a monster.

But he’s not a consistent Batman right now, just a Robin. On nites, a Batman, but very sporadic.

I like Josh. But if you can get a Derrick Williams or somebody with potential for him, get it. Same with JJ. Hinrich for sure. Keep Teague unless you can get a really good deal, he’s only 23.

Fire Sale between March 1st and March 15th. You may be like the Jazz, and be able to rebuild quick with the right trade.

But if I’m gonna lose, let me lose with some new, young players, and not this same bunch.

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buddy, i again will say it was so out of character for marvin it was probably not true but in some way i wish it were to say he finally grew a pair if you know what i mean. he is just a sweet complacent puppy like a golden retriever.

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The Hawks at full strength got blown out in Philips a year ago by the Knicks when they didn’t have Jeremy Lin or Tyson Chandler yet.

I gotta laugh when people say this player or that player “has to go”. If you are going to get rid of a core guy, you might as well go all out and get rid of all of them. Trading one core player for someone else isn’t going to change the fortunes of this team. It’s still the Heat and Bulls at the top of the conference, and everyone else below them, unless the Pacers use their assets and cap space to go trade for a star or the Nets unite Deron and Dwight and put some pieces around them.

Even at full strength, this team’s absolute ceiling was to draw Chicago in the second round and pull an upset before losing to Miami in the conference finals. Trading Josh for Pau Gasol, or Marvin or Joe for the bag of weed they would fetch in the trade market isn’t going to improve this team significantly in the short term or the long term. You’re not going to get a true superstar in return for any of them or any combination of them. And no matter how much Sund and Gearon want to live in fantasy land, there is only one 2004 Pistons. Every other championship team has superstar(s).

If they don’t want to jump start the rebuilding process, they should use their trade chip (the $8 million Kirk expiring contract) and get the best big man they can find so that they can at least be competitive on the boards for the rest of the season and avoid losing games like the ones they lost to Chicago and Portland. If they want to do something that involves foresight and vision, they should trade Josh and Al for unprotected lottery picks in this year’s draft and dump Joe and Marvin’s contracts if possible (and use the amnesty if not possible).

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Your Atlanta Hawks are the true definition of no faith.They are very talented but has no one to guide them.When they do believe in themselves they are a team we are all rave about. When they lose we talk like theyre a piece of u know. Lets face it we really don’t support the Hawks like we do the Falcons and Braves so when they lose we are so quick to point fingers and say the hawks sorry. The city should strip ASG of ownership for damaging the Hawks brand for future reference because no wants to come here as long as their owners. But Atlanta will be the laughing stock of the NBA for years to come because they have to rebuild again. As the league gets even powerful the core has run its course because JJ is as a good as a six man really. Josh skipped fundamentals 101 and went straight to the big leagues. Al should stay because he’s a valuable 4 with some heart with him. Marvin Marvin Marvin God Bless Marvin. 1 2 buckle my shoe Marvin skipped the course too. Pretty much like his game. Teague mad love for the dude doesnt get the chance to get in his zone due to not being played in previous years and being yanked after he make a few mistakes.This is really his rookie year folks. Zaza is your toughest player on your team(says a lot about toughness). Then LD. Oh LD. If you only had a brain you be smart which you are not. You cant even get these guys to listen to you. They run you where are your balls.Man up! Call em out thats what coaches do. Bench them when you think they are not giving you 110. (percent). You make excuses for them. You cater to this teams wants.Hawks shouldve took Avery Johnson. At least he would have brought toughness.
This GM should have never been hired in the first place. He has a bad rep everywhere he has been and destroyed franchises for years. Then the owners our beloved broke owners who decides to sit on money and make a profit for ten years loves mediocre play. Chooses not to do what it takes bring championship(conference finals will do) caliber team to Atlanta.Take notes from the Thunder on how to rebuild starting with the fans.

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Observations:

Josh had 4 turnovers / I only counted 3;
although I watched on video and sped through much of 2nd half.
I’m disappointed that I missed his last turnover.
If I were a Republican; living in a parallel universe perhaps;;;never mind.
Just messin’ with ya, Najeh.

For the Pargo Crowd; what a nite !
2 for 8; 1 for 6; 1 for 2; with 4 TOs

Kirk is playing horrible, but, he ain’t the problem [Hawks]
Neither is he the problem with Teague
I have read (validating Sautee) Hawks playing Kirk to:
*showcase for trade (-&-)
*get him in shape, for the team to whom he’s traded

Why …again I say Why ?
the Hawks Players consistently say;
‘`we did not match their intensity`’
Why don’t the Hawks make the other team match their Intensity ?

Please send every remnant of this team away.
- LD included -

This team is almost unbearable to watch.
Unless you are pullin’ for the opponent.

Josh was 5 for 13 from the field
with the exception of a dunk and one missed jump hook
all attempts were set shots [I refuse to call them jumpers]
at least until I began fast forwarding midway through the 3rd.
whoops … I’m wrong, he had one nice step back in rhythm. (applause)

That’s all I can think of for now.

Blow ‘em up !

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Najeh – Thanks for the rational head. Frustration has just been building for 1 1/2 years for me, so I’m just ready to ditch somebody. But you may be correct. What are you going to get for Marvin? Probably nothing, or next to nothing at this point.

Hinrich and Marvin for Kaman? Ye, I do that trade all day long.

Hinrich for Brad Miller if he’s still healthy? Same, do it.

Throw in Marvin for Luke Ridnour? Yep, done.

Marvin for Ramon Sessions and trade Hinrich for a bag of chips? Ok, I’m up with that.

I keep thinking the Lakers may accidently trade us a draft pick or something for Hinrich, preferably a 1st – they sure need him. But I’ve heard the Cavs will take a 1st for Sessions, and if I’m the Lakers I do that over Kirk all day long.

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“Yea” not “ye” in my last post

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LD needs to go, along with Kirk and Marvin. Josh I think can stay as long as we get a COACH who has the balls to tell him stop he jumpers.

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“Sell” not “see” in my last post – even my posting about the Hawks is terrible!

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stevew, i hear ya. only this is more the team i expected after the fold of last season, rescued only by the win over the magic then the sorry retool job in the off season. how could it be different with tmac, a detroit cast off, as your big fling? folks, see it for what it is. hate to pop the ballon but al going down was huge and made it more apparent when adversity hit as there were no replacements.

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Hawks mgmt isn’t going to do squat – They are content to run the course with this squad because ownership has no money and will not make a trade that will push them even slightly over the luxury tax. Horford going down just made it easier to write off this season as a wash. They tried to sniff out the market on Josh Smith & Joe Johnson and nobody was biting – they probably will look to amnesty Joe this summer and try and trade Josh for some future draft picks and rebuild around Al Horford and continue with the development of Teague. Kirk Hinrich is playing like crap and his trade value drops every game and since he’s on the last yr of his deal they will just let it expire.

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Congrats to the Hawks for becoming the First Blowout of the Lin Era Knicks at full strength. I knew we could count on you!

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We should attempt to trade fo draft picks.
1st rounders / lottery picks.
We should not trade for anything that wins another game this season.

Tank !

Although; I reckon ‘`little g`’ wishes to get in the play-offs [pay-check]

Josh for a lottery pick
Marv for exp contract / Charlotte maybe will dump Boris
Keep Joe – then use Amnesty clause
Keep Zaza – unless we get a really attractive offer
Trade Ivan – nice chip; old rookie on a rebuilding team
Keep Al – he won’t be ready this season anyway
Trade Teague – * Not * a long term solution @ pg (?LAL?)
At the trade deadline – If anyone wants:
Willie -or- T-Mac;
see if anyone [contender] would give up a late 1st rounder ?

To borrow this term … Ka-boom !

Did I leave anyone out ?

Mike Budenholzer asst HC S.A.Spurs; Leonard hamilton HC Fla. St. Univ.
My 1st two choices as potential candidates for next HC

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Goal = lottery pick
lottery pick should be / Thomas Robinson Kansas
we would have to get as high as # 4 through 8 to get him
* # 8 may not be high enough

We do not want Fab Melo
*[I don't think]*
I haven’t seen enough film yet … but;
I do not think his talent level would be worthy of a lottery choice.

With our current # 1 we should pick John Jenkins / Vandy
* more to come on him / best shooter in draft /
* may be best shooter to come along in a while !

* 2nd rounders we should be able to acquire:
** Festus Ezeli / Vandy / 6-11; Big shot blkr; strong
** Bernard James / Fla St / 6-10; old for class; served in military;
has been to war; from Savannah Ga.; shot blkr; great story !
_____________________________________________

That’s it for now

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Just a quick commentary:

we were down by 2 when LD made his trademark move “let’s take Teague out” with plenty of time left in the 1st quarter.

the guy is 23 years old, he is not tired by then.

the Knicks went on a 12-0 run from that point onwards.

actually, even if we do not want to link this to Teague, WHY ON EARTH did LD go with 5 bench players at the same time to close the quarter when we are already shorthanded with 2 starters out?

it’s going to war with players #7 to #12. are we supposed to be surprised with the outcome?

sure, the NYK also went with their bench guys, but their bench has been playing starter minutes when they had Amar’e and ‘Melo out and their mojo is flowing with their 10 out 11 wins.

the NYK are an amped up ball club right now, confidence is high, whilst we are a battered down ball club with confidence down.

you need to ride the remaining starters more minutes in a situation like this.

Teague can and should play a lot more minutes.

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FIRE SUND

FIRE LD

That’s all I gots to say.

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What’s the excuse now LD?

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what is management actually doing during these games?????? Im sure they are changing the channel trying to ignore the dire situation like always..
If my company would be putting up bad numbers its time for a change. +

Why is there no change?

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“They have the money, hookers and weed. That is what they want. Now get us players in here that care about winning and not just living the hip hop bling lifestyle.” – Chicken Hawk

In my Beans’ voice from the movie, “State Property,” as played by rapper, Beanie Sigel [Dwight Grant], “Look at these old dudes [Hawks' players], a bunch of weirdos. They ain’t hungry; they done sat around and got fat. My guys…grimy, thirsty. I mean, don’t get it twisted, they [Hawks' players] gettin’ money but they not serious. Look at ‘em – too much drinkin’, partyin’, trickin’.”

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Si no hacemos cambios será una temporada sin pena ni gloria.Yo traspasaria a Marvin y a uno de los bases(Teague o Hinrich,me dá igual)

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i meant one eastern and one western conference coach

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Nice article that really sums up the Josh Smith story. Can’t be coached? Or has never had a coach?

Keep Josh, Al, ZaZa, and Teaguer. Sell the rest.

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LD dropped the ball again last night.

Green (a stocky 6′3”) at the SG slot against Landry Fields, a dynamic/fairly long 6′7′.

Result:

Fields had 7 points (3/4FG + 1/1FT ) 2 rebounds 1 assist in his first 7 minutes (1 point per minute)

Green had 4 points (2/4FG), 2 rebounds 1 assist in his first 8 1/2 minutes

On that first quarter match up we were already down by 3.

The picture gets worse in the second quarter:

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20120222&game=ATLNYK

I like Green but he has to be correctly deployed and LD had no f****g idea on how to create favorable match ups.

No f****g idea.

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Rajon Rondo has been named as the replacement for Joe Johnson in the 2012 NBA All-Star Game. That [replacement] spot should have gone to Josh Smith. I know a guard was replaced with a guard but I think it was political based on Josh’s comments when he wasn’t selected to the all-star team. Rajon Rondo has just finished serving a two-game suspension for throwing the ball [hard] at a referee. That shows a bad attitude to me. In addition, the Boston Celtics have a losing record and are now sending two players to the all-star game while the Hawks have a winning record and will have no players in the all-star game representing its franchise. I think an injured Hawks’ player [Joe Johnson] selected to all-star team should have been replaced by a healthy Hawks’ player [Josh Smith] who was equally deserving of making the all-star team this year.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-02-22/rajon-rondo-to-replace-joe-johnson-in-nba-all-star-game

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LD should be fire right after all star break, this guy content on starting Marvin for some reason, i just don’t no what LD have to prove but at the end of the day he will be fired by end of the season.

Marvin is the worst SF in the NBA and have not prove to be a starter in this league, so what is LD thinking ? why is he so content on starting Marvin every game who is worthless on the court, there has to be some type of conspiracy among this organization and Marvin something is hidden that can’t be told.
MARVIN 0 POINTS LAST NIGHT HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT AS A COACH.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Just sit’em down…

- The Hawks are dead in the water, their legs are gone…
- I’d give a ceremonial start, but ride the bench deep…
- Pargo, Stack, Radi, Ivan, Dampier have the legs…

- Marvin – Wow! – Really? Wow! – maybe a stint in DLeague?…
- He fills the lane, catches the ball and falls down, wow….
- On display, humiliated himself, if no trade, must amnesty…

- w/o JJ – disoriented, Smoove, Marvin, ZaZa, Teague, Hinrich – nothing…
- Hinrich aint helpin, last thing we need is veteran turnovers…
- Is it just me, or is Pargo better than Teague?…

-The enigma of McGrady – he can still play, but doesn’t…
-Is the negative energy he brings worth it?…
-In Detroit, his last stop, there was a player “coup d’etat”…
-But who can be positive in this mess?

Hawks have to make moves, this dog don’t hunt?

Do you tweak now and implode this summer?
Do you implode now and tweak this summer?
Do you discard the core?

Answer: All of the above, everybody on the table -

If you can get out of JJ contract, Do it.
If you can get a true Center, Do it.
If you can get anything for Marvin, Do it.
If you can get a PG that can dribble and shoot, Do it.

Build around Horford and keep Tmac on bench.

Everything Must Go at the Dump!

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This team needs to be blown up and we are only in the early part of that horrible JJ contract. All of the rebuilding years for this.

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Marvin’s still startin. LMAO. What does LD see in this guy? Unbelievable. No wonder Chills left and TMac wants to slap Uncle Larry. I would too if this bum kept startin in front of me.

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We all wanted Woody to go(with goodd reason), but I guess the old saying is right.(especially when it comes to the ASG. “Be careful what you ask for”.

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And CV, it wouldnt of matterd if Joe was there. They never respond when he’s in the lineup either.

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As I said several weeks ago…”This is Just The Beginning.” It amazes me how there are still some people who feel that the Hawks are in good shape. Yes they’re missing Horford…and he’s a big piece of the puzzle. So my question is this…Is Horford what holds this team together? To me it seems so, because they got “whooped” WITHOUT Joe just like they do WITH him. That means JOE=IRRELEVANT!!!!! No disrespect to Horford, but if this team can’t compete without him…THEY’RE DONE!!!!

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“It’s “Marvin Williams Night” in The Garden.

Look for about 2 or 3 threes and about 6 fts tonight from him. 18 points easily for Marvin tonight.” – northcyde

“How ya like me [Marvin] now?” – Kool Moe Dee

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Marvin did actually play someone decent D on Carmelo.

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Fire LD, trade KH and MW. Please.

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Teague, Tmac, Vlad, Josh, Zaza

Pargo, Green, Marvin, Ivan, Dampier

Hinrich, Stack

Hawks must stay big and physical at all time, when Zaza come out Dampier must replace him, defense is the key for the Hawks, no way should Marvin starte before Tmac or should Kirk starte before Pargo, every since Kirk came back to replace Pargo the bench have been the worst in the NBA, When before Pargo, Green, Tmac, vlad, Collins was the best bench in the league.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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This team has talent and is deep but Coach have no idea on his rotation or how manage team, no dam way should Marvin be starting in front of Tmac who can create his own shot and make plays for others.

BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE

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Memo to the ASG: you have wasted opportunity after opportunity to have this team coached as a NBA team. Our coach has no solution for the problems we are seeing on the court. This team couldn’t even pass the ball in the 2nd quarter last night. We make the Knicks look good, that’s how bad we are.
Can everyone now see what we look like without Joe and without a backup? How many guys have we gone through in this run? Would anyone like to see JC1 or JC2 filling Joe’s shoes now?
We knew Joe was going to be out and we did nothing to prepare for it.
If Willie Green is the best answer LD has to play big minutes, then LD should be done here as the head coach.
Is there anyone on this blog that thinks LD deserves to continue in his role? I don’t see the support, yet the people making the decisions aren’t holding anyone accountable?
We give up 54 points in the paint, and LD can only give Damp 4 min?

I am so eager to see how these guys respond to it while we start Marvin (AGAIN!) and throw Willie in there against JRich tonight. No one should be tired after what they put into last night.

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One thing I have noticed about this organization. Ever since Lenny Wilkens left as head coach, they have hired guys whom have NEVER been a head coach before! I understand about giving guys an opportunity to get started but come on..we need to hire an established coach that can light a fire under their rears!!! After more than a decade of failed hires, you would think they would have realized that by now!!! It’s things like this that makes being a Hawks fan SO frustrating!!!!

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54 points in the paint last night!

LD / Sund get a pass because of the injuries…..yet, they’re making all the decisions how well we compete. Anyone see what Memphis did lat year without their All-Star?

And if Josh was deserving of an all-star slot, he would be there. You knew Bosh was deserving in Toronto….Josh is not playing at that level when given the chance to shine.

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I am done with the Hawks as long ASG and Larry Drew are apart of this team i am boycotting .

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Our center position scored 2 points last night. Is Sund asleep? The Lakers and the LA papers are constantly hearing from the GM about improving their team (and they are winning). We don’t hear crap from Sund and nothing is ever even asked of him.

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Deng, Igoudala and Pierce combined for 62 long-range two-pointers while Smith has taken 71.

“What that tells you is that he is difficult to coach,” says one Western Conference coach.

Mr. Eastern Conference agrees. “He belongs on the block, if he was there he’d score 50.”

Another issue with both coaches is Smith’s inconsistency.

“Listen,” said Mr. Western Conference, “He’s a guy you have to pay attention to on the scouting report, but you don’t know which one shows up. ‘Good’ Josh can kill you, ‘Bad’ Josh becomes our sixth man. All-Stars don’t have that many highs and lows. His highs are unbelievable, but no all-star has his lows. That’s why you respect Kevin Love. His bad nights are 16 and 11, his great night are 36 and 17″

The Minnesota Timberwolves forward has scored under 15 points this season once. Smith has scored under 10 nine times.

The numbers dont lie folks, and getting rid of Josh Smith is a start. The remaining core of JJ, JT and Horford can be built around. They just need to get rid of the momentum/morale/wanna be all-star rally killer called Smoove!

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I also noticed these teams on this trip are making their surge against the reserves! The first sub was of course JT – when we were down 18-16. That was the closest we got.

FREE JEFF TEAGUE! FIRE LD

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It’s bad when the peak salad days of your home team are the ones where they actually compete in the second round.

It’s obvious that these guys are checking out. They don’t want to be there anymore.

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Let’s face it these guys aren’t that bad, it’s all on LD who has major faults as a coach & probably
as a handler of men.

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Teague plays in an offense that takes the ball out of his hands the moment he comes up the court, a want to be point foward in Josh who refuses to give him the ball on the break, and an ovevpaid yet talented two guard in JJ who dominates the ball and people complain about his assist numbers. WOW! For the season he averages right around 5 assist a game, shoots 46% from three, and 48% from the field. He lead us in scoring last night, had 3 steals, and a blk without playing in the fourth. Every offense in the league sets picks up top for thier point and allows them to create, but not us. And our fans blame JT who really is in his rookie season. I guess LD’s stupidity and lack of B-ball knowledge is rubbing off on yall.

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Jeff Teague way to much crap on this blog . Fireld has said it exactly like it is. JT continues to put up good numbers. He should be playing 40 minutes. Why does ld continue to try to screw him,he is hurting this team.goJT fire the jerk LD.

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o’b there is a link form a very good article on the previous page from wsb sports i guess.

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O’Brien,

Here is the link:

ttp://www.wsbtv.com/weblogs/zach-klein-sports-blog/2012/feb/22/nba-coach-good-josh-can-kill-you-bad-josh-becomes-/

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Larry Drew = Mike Woodson with eyebrows.

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Ya’ll kill me blaming the Coach…

- How many layups LD miss?
- How many turnovers LD have?
- How many missed FG LD have?
- How many missed FTs LD have?
- How many pts LD man score?

Stupid….

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tyger….blame everyone but the coach…and his staff.

Teague sits for Kirk….give me Kirk’s contributions last night

Marvin starts…..what was his line?
Dampier plays 4 min the entire game….NY goes right down the gut any time they wanted to.
Josh Smith freelancing…..you blame Josh?

So which is it? You think we have the leadership in LD? The only guy making less is Ivan. You like this offense where our ppg are worse than when we played iso Joe? Woody had us 4th in the league when he was dropped. We haven’t come close to that since.

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ASG needs to seriously think about that, outside of D12 getting traded (still will happened but they are number #3 or 4 in the East, I dont know). Most of the top teams will be doing trades and what not. With Chicago eye Pau Gasol or D12, Miami want Kaman, Indiana and 76ers has alot of tradeable assets to get pieces for the playoff run. If the Hawks doesnt do anything and stay status quo, even they wont even last in the first round.

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SteveW,

“And about trading Josh. It’s always dangerous to trade your best player, who’s only 26, and is passionate about improving.”

Are you kidding me?! Josh Smith has been in the league 8 years and on any given night is the only one who still thinks he can shoot. News Flash…If you catch the ball 20 feet away from the basket and no one tries to guard you…YOU CANT SHOOT!!!

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G’dad, I played PG all through high school (even played on the Adidas Atlanta Celtics for two seasons). And then played on ‘posts teams’ while serving in the army overseas. I always drove the lane looking to draw the opposition’s man to free up a passing lane to the big underneath the basket. Though I could score, I found those extra 4-6 points for your bigs did wonders when it came to them rebounding and helping trap on baseline. For seasons, I’ve thought the Hawks have enough talent. Just never had an on the court leader that would be vocal and KNEW how to lead. Josh wants to lead, but hasn’t been taught how to lead. Al seems too nice to REALLY say something negative in from of everyone. And Joe is just quiet Joe. We look at Wade and see how good of a leader he is now, but forget he had the best leader in the 90s/00s in Mourning tutoring him for quite a while (not to mention Payton also). Melo never had anyone to really teach him how to lead (AI doesn’t count) until Chauncey. And that was when Melo actually started attempting to play defense. Even Ron Artest was a better leader than anyone on this team (remember Artest took his Kings team to the playoffs with an injured Bibby). I guess that’s why I always give Josh the benefit, because this organization has done nothing to make sure he was properly coached, or mentored on the court as well. And we can tell he’s WILLING to learn, because BEFORE Lebron or Dwight, it was Josh who hired Ha’keem and Calvin to help him with post moves. And it was Josh who came in this preseason in the best shape of his career, while Al came in out of shape in a season that was going to be crunched (makes you wonder if he was in shape, if he would still be healthy today).

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With the team starting to implode, I’m not sure the playoffs are guaranteed. But ASG will blame it on losing Al, and that will be that.

Let’s look at the team:

PG – Teague/KH/Pargo – Should be pretty good, but does LD know how to use them?

SG – JJ/Green – Same as above. Green, along with Pargo, have exceeded my expectations.

SF – Marvin/TMac/Some Vlad Rad/Stackhouse – If Grant Hill is still ballin’, and he’s older than Stack, how about Stack? But again, I think a good Coach makes this position work.

PF – Josh/Ivan/Vlad Rad – Got a Top 15 player in the East in Josh, backups not bad.

C – ZaZa, Damp, Collins – ZaZa’s ok, Damp probably could be.

We are deeper than I remember since the 80’s. More experience than any team since then also. Maybe we just keep going, and wait for Horford. But I’m telling you, if your expecting alot out of Horford, that’s probably fools gold. Terrible injury. I think he goes back outside once he gets back.

And I’m not sure we hold off the Bucks, Cavs and the like to even make the playoffs at this point. Dysfunction is the only word I get when seeing this team. It’s crazy.

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SteveW, I think the Hawks easily make a top 5-6 seed. But if they drop to the 7th seed and facing a matchup with the NBA Heat, they’re better off just losing out and going to the lottery. I’m praying a rumor comes out soon about a new buyer for the team negotiating on the price for the Hawks. That’s the only way out of this.

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TYGER,

BLOW THIS TEAM UP? U will have FOUR years of REBUILD misery and blogging!
The only one on this team that is unproven is DROOPY.. We dont have a ring YET
BUT neither does:

LeBron
Lin
Durant & Westbrook
Chris Paul
mama’s baby, “ROSE”
star struck “MELLO”
Nash
etc,etc,etc

I’ve watched EVERY game since ‘05 and this season i’ve watched us dominate
miami and chicago,only to see droopy make unneccesary changes while we’re up.
allowing the other team to gain cofidence. We beat down CHICAGO so bad, they
they benched ROSE. Only to come back next time with a whole new strategy!!
and ofcourse, they won!
That my friend is BAD COACHING! even lil league knows “STICK WIT WHAT WORKS!
I dont even think Droopy take notes during games, he only gets up for commercial cameos!
Wheres da LETS GO TEAM!! ? Then he throws da bus under da bus after every loss!!!

DROOPY MUST GO! DROOPY MUST GO! save our season, “DROOPY MUST GO”

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Stretch – Trust me, I feel your pain. I just try to be balanced. I’ve been attacked for being a Josh hater more than once on this blog. Hard to believe huh?

I agree that Josh is the most inconsistent Top 50 player in the League that I can think of off the top of my head – voted #43 in the offseason on ESPN.

But he has improved his game this season. Top 5 defensive player. Rebounding better than ever. Assists, Steals, Blocks – doing great. His J’s and mental lapses are his undoing.

That being said, I do think a perfect storm is brewing for him to be traded. The Hawks tried and failed last season before the draft to trade him according to MC. His contract runs out after next season. And with Al hurt, and JJ with “the contract”, I do think he’s our most tradeable asset. I think ASG is going to make sure Al is at the 4 when he returns, even if that means moving Smoove to the 3 if he’s still here.

But we better get alot of return on investment, because can you imagine this team with no rim protector? No real athlete at the 4 or 5? No top notch defender at the 4? Losing a consistent top 20 rebounder?

If we could get Kaman for Marvin and KH, I would not be opposed to a frontline going forward of Kaman/ZaZa, Al/Ivan, and Josh/TMac. That with a BC of JJ and Teague wouldn’t make for a bad team.

But yea, if your not going to re-sign Josh, get what you can for him. Can’t see just letting him walk.

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SteveW if Josh was so passionate about winning then he would understand that he’d be more effective in the paint and he would work to improve his game there, because not only is that best for him, it’s also what the team needs, more post threats on offense. Instead, he selfishly wants to be a jump shooting SF perimeter scorer. Some passion about wanting W’s for the team.

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Dikembe and Ben are the only players to win the DPOY 4 times. 5 times All NBA. I think you put Wallace on this team to back up ZaZa, even at 37, we immediately become better. If LD knows how to use him.

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Hawkfan – I just don’t understand what made him drop 30 lbs in the off season, and work so hard on his game if he isnt’ passionate about improving. Maybe it’s just because his contract is coming up, I don’t know. Or maybe he’s trying to be put at the 3.

But he’s not just lounging around in the off season living off his image. He’s working hard. There is some reason for that.

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p.s. Against portland, Josh was one away from a triple-double, which hadn’t been done by a hawk vs. portland since ‘79, while me and my “hawk players fanclub” watched and routed for him, DROOPY took him out the game with 3mins left!!! Thanks for the encouragement coach! OH and by the way “WE LOST”! Josh Smith’s points are just xtra gravy to his BLOCKS,STEALS,ASSIST,REBOUNDS.. While u’r hating on him, the other teams fear him and would love nuthin betta than for dumb mngnt to let him go..!

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Some things working in the Hawks favor:

Philly has dropped 5 straight. This without losing 2 of their top 3 players like the Hawks have.

Philly has played 19 Home games to 15 road games, while the Hawks have played 14 Home games to 19 road games. So we play quite a few more Home games in the last half of the season than they do. Now if we can just win at Home…

The Hawks are only 1/2 game back of the Sixers right now.

The Celts have a losing record at 15-17. This while playing 19 Home games to 13 road games.

NYK – 19 home games, 15 road games to this point.

Orlando 18 H and 16 A

So besides Indy, Chicgao, and Miami, we have a much more favorable H/A schedule than the other teams we’re battling for the 3 or 4 seed.

We’re 4 1/2 up on Cleveland and 5 1/2 up on the Bucks who are currently at the 9 and 10 seeds.

And Cleveland has a brutal 2nd half schedule. Not only do they have to play more Away games, they have to cram more games in. They’ve played 2 games less than the Hawks, and 4 games less than the Bulls and Pistons. So they’ll probably fade I would guess.

So the Hawks are in a decent spot to make a run at the 3 or 4 seed.

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When Kevin Love averages 2.5 blocks, 2.0 steals, and 4 assists on those ‘bad nights’ let me know. The coach who said that could be any of the Western Conference’s coaches with a losing record. And with all respect right now Love is the best PF in the game, so that’s a mute point.

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From hoopinion;

The head coach
It’s not easy to coach without 40% of the team’s payroll, but it shouldn’t be easy to oversee a structureless mess, either. Outside of Smith, Johnson, and Pachulia, no one’s getting regular minutes or has a defined role. Johnson and Smith arguably don’t have roles defined toward their strengths. With the rest of the roster on one-year deals or possessing a history of mistrust and self-doubt from the franchise, it’s not surprising they’re susceptible to a not very good team that, to one-up the Hawks in a profound way, has a defined system..

We’ve heard LD talk about motivation, energy, getting jumper happy. And these are the same excuses we’ve been hearing since Woody was here. So what’s changed?

It all starts at the top. Bad ownership leads to bad management, which leads to bad decisions. ASG needs to go.

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Ramon,

You are missing the point. Love goes to work and he wears a hard hat. Smith goes to work and his head is hard. Thats what me and the NBA and FANS agree on, thats why he is NOT in the all star game. The dude got passed over for what 4 years in row and twice in the same season???

SteveW,

Yep, thats what im talking about. That game against Phoenix…thats how you get voted as an all-star. But Josh needs to do that more than a few games here and there. He takes himself out mentally of a lot games.

And if Ramon doesnt see that, then he’s not a basketball fan, he’s just a Josh Smith fan. Its a team sport, no matter how many highlights a person gets, he has to be able to pick his team up some nights and carry them, not just to the end of the game, but to victory.

Josh hasnt figured that out after 8 years as a professional basketball player. Do whatever you can do to make the other guys better. If Josh would move down to the blocks and get out of the way of the guys that are supposed to be shooting and make people defend him some, the offense would run much smoother.

For example, ever watched them come down court of offense? Eeveryone heads to the perimeter including Josh. Everybody wants to be a shooter while they only Zaza down low lots of times.

Like the coach said, “he is uncoachable.” Dont get me wrong, i love the guy, but when it comes to Team, he is not playing for that. He is on another agenda. But i know for sure, if they moved him for a couple of nice pieces, we all would see a better product.

I know it is NOT all his fault but sometimes in order to have a smooth running engine, you have to change some plugs.

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I hate these kinds of losses when the national media is watching but it was clearly going to be a tough game. Obviously Josh takes way to many long twos and isn’t a good enough shooter to get away with it. (STRETCH calm down!) Josh wasn’t going inside against NY because of Amare and Chandler, so he had to take jumpers and he wasn’t hitting. This team is finally really showing the problems it clearly would have without Al in the middle. As many outside shots as AL takes, he actual took shots in the post, which Zaza is unable to do. Zaza needs to take and make some hooks inside for this team to even compete with good teams for an entire game. Someone has to balance the floor, but we always have 5 guys that take jump shots and that just doesn’t work for an entire game.

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I’ve also noticed that a teams Strength of Schedule (SOS) based on Hollinger affects there record in most cases, that and Home and Away.

Our SOS the last 10 is .586, by far the hardest in the League over that time span. The Nuggest are second at .576, and they’re 3-7 over that span also.

So we’ve played the toughest schedule, and been on the road for most of it over the last 10.

Overall, after 33 games, who has played the toughest schedule in the East according to Hollinger among the Top 8? The Atlanta Hawks. Boston is way back in 2nd place, and they’ve played alot more of their games at Home.

Miami is 3rd in SOS among the Top 8 in the East, and the Magic are 4th.

Miami’s last 10 games have been among some pretty anemic teams however.

Orlando had played a pretty tough schedule, but they had played like 7 of 10 at home when these stats were compiled Monday (I think it is Monday when Hollinger comes out with this stuff).

The 76′ers have played the 5th easiest schedule in the League, the entire NBA. But there last 10 has been pretty tough, and their collapsing.

Over the last 10 games, the Bulls have played the 2nd easiest schedule (the Pistons with the easiest by far – laughable really, one of the lowest I’ve ever seen).

The Pacers 4th and the Knicks 5th easiest over that time span.

Overall, the Pacers have played the 3rd easiest schedule

The Bulls 2nd easiest

And the Knicks have played the easiest schedule in the NBA.

We’ll see what happens when all these teams get into the toughest parts of their schedules like the Hawks have.

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Kirk stunk up the gym last night, especially in the first half. We have gone from the promise of solid PG for 48 minutes to small guards who can have good scoring nights (Teague & Pargo), play solid D (Teague & Hinrich) and do virtually nothing in regards to producing assists.

A team with poor PG play (in terms of the function of running a team’s half-court offense) and awful rebounding is doomed for failure.

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@ SteveW… Your facts sound good, but ONLY good if your content with just making playoffs. I think the real issue is about being able to compete with the elite teams of the NBA.

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That quote about Josh being hard to coach essentially proves him right. Coaches don’t pick All Star reserves based on who is playing the best, but rather who they would be able to coach more easily.

Kobe Bryant was hard to coach in his prime, too, but he deserved his All Star spot because he played better than the other Western Conference guards. That’s the only thing that matters. That’s the only reason the All Star game exists. It’s the All Star game, not the All Coachable game.

Josh is obviously nowhere near the player Kobe is, but the point is that he’s better than other Eastern Conference front court players who got picked ahead of him, specifically Deng and Hibbert. Who cares if he’s hard to coach? That is IRRELEVANT for the All Star game.

Politics.

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Teague is 23, Josh 25, Al 25, Joe 29, and Marvin is 25….why are they not running the ball more, instead of walking it up the court.

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Also funny that they compared Josh to Love. Josh isn’t as good as the best PF in the game, so he shouldn’t be an All Star. Give me a break. Maybe if they made a similar comparison of Luol Deng to LeBron James, they would figure out that he doesn’t belong there either.

And whoever that Eastern Conference coach is who thinks Josh would score 50 if he was on the block should be fired. You need ball skills to be able to score, not just athleticism.

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Yesterday, Ra’mon suggested that LD should be as masterful at using his key players as Phil Jackson or Popovich. If LD’s is being measured against the two best head coaches in the past 20 years, surely we can measure Josh against the best PF in the past 2 years.

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For the record, Kevin Love takes 4.4 3s a game and hits them at a 34.8% clip. So much for him staying on the blocks all the time.

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Najeh

You missed the point.

-again-

‘`that quote about Josh being hard to coach essentially proves him right`’

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Najeh, Love is just a naturally better shooter than Josh. Josh was drafted as a raw athlete who could dunk and jump. And he has developed into a top 20 player despite having below coaching surrounding him his entire career. Love went to UCLA and played for one of the most underrated coaches in NCAA (Howland). People say Josh is uncoachable, but they forget that Jordan got Collins fired, Wade got Stan Van Gundy fired, Kidd got Scott fired, and more. I guess those guys weren’t coachable either to their coaches. Or was it, they just realized that coach wouldn’t bring out the best in the team, similar to what Josh realized seasons ago with Woody, and now with LD.

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Geemack, they’re not running more because their starters are young, but the Hawks has the oldest bench in the league. Even their ‘rookie’ is 27 years old. When you have Vlad, Stack, T-Mack, Eddie Green, Dampier, Collins you have too many players who’ve seen their best days go by long ago on the court.

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GeeMack – Josh is 26 and jj is 30. Slight difference, but a difference nonetheless.

But I get your point

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Rod, the line was down at -2.5 and I missed it. You snooze, you lose. But…. I caught Miss St. +10 vs. Kentucky caught some RACKS.

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stevew have you seen the doc lately? you have gone in less than 18 hours from blowing it up to maybe there is a chance based on schedule to make it to the playoffs. for lack of a better way to put it i’ll can go mora on you … PLAYOFFS, YOU MEAN PLAYOFFS!!!!!

dude why? also you have not looked close enough at our schedule as only 15 games are in the winnable to even steven category at this juncture of play. also the home games are weighted to the end of our schedule so we are road warriors until then with one triple back and many games back to back with the 6 game in nine road trip and we just came back from this one 1-4?

as far as me, selfishly, i am leaning toward not getting into the playoffs so i can bow out gracefully and not have to think about not renewing my tickets prematurely to get playoff tickets then see what they will come up with this summer to indicate whether to keep throwing more money at this entertainment product.

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Najeh,

Although Kevin is taking 4 threes per game, at least he is shooting them at 35%, and making his FTs (83%). And despite not being on the block, he still averages 14 rpb (12 for his career).

If Josh shot 35% from 3, 83% at the line, and averaged 14 rpg, I don’t think people would give him such a hard time. But Josh’s career 3pt % is 28%, and he is shooting .265% behind the arc this year.

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O’brien he’s shooting 40% beyond the arc this month (Josh).

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Ra’mon,

Or was it, they just realized that coach wouldn’t bring out the best in the team, similar to what Josh realized seasons ago with Woody, and now with LD..

After spending 5 years with LD as the assistant coach, what made Josh endorse LD before he got the job if he didnt think he could get the best out of him?

I think Josh liked LD because they got along well (LD was the go between for Josh and Woody).

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O’Brien, just because he endorse him, didn’t mean that Josh had it right either. But remember Josh was the FIRST player to learn the offense that LD said he wanted to run. When LD came in with the system, he said it wasn’t an offense that was design to run plays for specific players. But now just last week, LD says when he runs plays for Josh, Josh declines. LD is the one who’s changed so much. Why isn’t he running motion still? And when he does run motion, why does he turn to ISO offense after the motion has been working the entire game?

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“You missed the point.

-again-”

What point is that exactly?

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sund has his stamp on this team, without a doubt. it cant be bk’s team any longer.

one year contracts may come back to haunt if this team goes selfish trying to make mine next year. not many top fifties at their positions is my guess and a problem with the bench though it is said ti be our best depth in years. that is truly sad.

al is needed folks as are all the starters on this team as misaligned and unbalanced as it is. as it is. summer of sameness i suggested to try and find a big for josh to no avail.

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Jason Terry averaged 7.5 assists with the Hawks. Assist don’t mean squat unless you have command of the offense and the players. At the moment, Teague doesn’t make anyone better which is prerequisite for a pg.

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I’ll bet even ‘`Richard Simmons`’ -not Bill- ‘`Richard`’
has enough sense to realize K.Love
is playing basketball on a different plane,
than is ‘`No J the Chucker`’.

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Jason Terry. Traded because he tried to tell vets what to do and lead the team from the PG position. He’s not a pure Pg but he is a pure LEADER.

I’ve said it before and I will continue to say it. This is a strange season. IMO, Josh lost that weight anticipating that he would spend at least as much (if not more0 time at SF. How was he to know that Horford would suffer a significant injury that would lock him in at PF almost exclusively this season? Now, he is absent some of the mass to play against the bigger PFs. We’ve gotten smaller and softer this season than ever before. Some of it is dumb lucjk (Al’s injury coupled with Jenny Craig Smith’s diet) and some is just an evolution of the past few seasons.

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Najeh- I’m certain that the new stadium the Falcons want to build will likely hold less people so that they can pack all the noise into that space.

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Teague doesn’t make any player better because LD’s offense does not make any play better. Look at the Suns/Nash they do alot, and I mean alot, of picks. When do the Hawks have pick and rolls? Oh ya I forgot, Zaza’s offensive fouls. Where is Josh on offense? Oh ya I forgot, on the 3pt. arc shooting 26% for 3s. How can any Point Guard run this offense?

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http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/02/22/rajon-rondo-the-right-call-as-all-star-game-replacement-for-joe-johnson/?sct=nba_t11_a1

the josh debate rages on.

the point the stood out in that article is how josh is putting up the same number of long jumpers as ……….. dirk. wow.

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my bad, offense

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Ramon, Drew’s motion offense is part of the problem. Everybody doesn’t need to shoot the ball just because they’re open. Most coaches will design an offense to get their best scorers the ball in the right spots. Drew’s offense doesn’t do that at all.

As for Josh Smith, the issue with him is that we don’t necessarily need him to do more, we need him to play smarter. He simply doesn’t do that, no matter how talented he or others think he is. And good teams take full advantage of that. He’s the rapidly player that when he starts to lose his athleticism, he’ll decline rapidly.

His thought process reminds me a A LOT of Rasheed Wallace and Antoine Walker. Both of those guys could’ve been much better players than they turned out to be. Toine especially was a multi skilled player that would KILL his team with his decision making. He had extremely high and low games like Josh has. And his shot selection was even a little worse than Josh.

We’re a team void of good veteran talent that could show Josh how to play the right way, so Josh basically gets to do what he wants.

Take a 21 foot jumper after already missing 5 of them, no problem.

Not give the ball to Teague to lead the fast break, no problem.

Hang out by the 3 point line on offense to receive the pass, instead of cutting to the rim or crashing the offensive glass, no problem

Those are offensive possession killers. And since he now leads the team in usage, culpability of him on offense increases. And other coaches around the league see this. So if they can Eve
Effectively take JJ out on offense, Smith gets to make the critical plays on offense. Every missed shot or turnover by him is now magnified.

If he wants the ball in his hands, I have no problem with that. But with his limited offensive arsenal, he should be more of a playmaker and rebounder in the mold of a Kevin Garnett, than a scorer like a Lamarcus Aldridge.

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MattP I thought I was alone. Anyone with the least bit of BBall acumen could see this offense is not made for the current construction of our team.

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Northcyde, stop spewing your pro Duck anti Josh posts. Whenever LD calls for a post play for Josh, more times than not he produces.

Why does LD have Josh out on the elbow and not Duck or Al.

Fireld, Teague can get to lane anytime he wants but can’t finish or find an open guy. He botches the break more times than not as well.

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having criticized josh every chance i get. he was far from the worst culprit last night. entire team looked like a train wreck. this team is starting to remind of the infamous team that won 13 games. except for the fact that they’re “supposed” to be older and wiser. heh

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JS has the highest PER on the team.

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I’m officially jumping on the Josh & Kirk for Pau Gasol trade bandwagon.

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“People may just need to admit that ATL isn’t a passionate sports town, and leave it at that.”

If they had Lin, Melo, and Amare they’d be pretty passionate.

Michael Vick is the only star this city has had in the last 10 years. Not so coincidentally, the 2002-2006 Falcons were by far the most popular pro sports team in this city over the last 10 years in terms of attendance.

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“That 5mil are stretched out and more likely wont make any trips to watch pro games unless its the playoffs.”

They will if the product is better.

All those people who make LeBron and Jeremy Lin a trending topic on Twitter in Atlanta during every Heat or Knicks game would fill up Philips Arena if those players were Hawks.

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I don’t think Atlanta has tremendous passion for any one sports team, but sports in general are a passion. 3 pro teams, plus 2 major colleges in driving distance. Throw in college bowl and kick-off games, the almost annual hosting of a round of the NCAA men’s basketball tourney, the Masters down the way and maybe another golf tournament here and there… and we’re talking about a city with a major sports event practically every weekend. But all of that love gets spread around with no one team getting the vast majority of devotion.

All that said, I do personally think that being in the bottom third in home attendance for a team that consistently produces the best (and sometimes only) postseason results is sad. And for that, I place blame at the feet of ownership who simply don’t spend the time nor money needed to market this team properly.

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Lol prison. You know why I defend Marvin Williams? Not because he is balling ( although he was playing well until February came ). It’s because his play is nowhere near the reason why the Hawks are in the situation they’re in. Yet, the first thing out of fans mouths is something about Marvin.

Marvin is a ROLE PLAYER, not a main cog. But the coach is so hell bent on playing 10 – 11 guys, that he can’t even have his role maximized.

Coach should reduce this rotation to 8 or 9 guys. Marvin should be part of that group, whether he starts or comes off the bench. And he should be given enough opportunities to positively or negatively affect the game. That’s my whole purpose in defending him.

He played like crap last night. He deserves to be clowned for that performance. But watch how many still clown him even when he plays his role, but doesn’t have a star-like game.

And people will hate this, but the truth is the truth. Look at the game flow of last night’s game. When did the game start to get out of hand? As soon as Marvin and Teague went to the bench, and Drew tried.to play the 2nd unit as a group. It went downhill RAPIDLY.

And when Teague and Marvin came back in, the damage was done. Marvin didn’t have a shot attempt in the 2nd quarter. In the 3rd quarter, Marvin played horribly offensively, but ended up +10 in the quarter because he and the team played much better defense that quarter.

As soon as he goes out, replaced by Green ( which gave us a Teague – Green – Stackhouse lineup ) ……. BOOM, they outscore us by 7 to end the quarter and effectively kill any shot we had of getting back in the game.

Even when Marvin and Teague are struggling offensively, the Hawks may still be better off keeping one of them in the game, because their replacements are inept both offensively AND defensively.

But Drew isn’t a defensive coach. He’ll always look for an offensive fix, instead of grinding the game out with his best defensive unit or players.

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As a matter of fact Teague’s per36 rebounding numbers are among the worst. If it wasn’t for a rookie Fredette and an inexplicably bad rebounding year for Devin Harris, Teague would be considered the worst rebounding pg in the league.

A small team like ours can’t really have that.

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I would say our Hawks were LINvisible against the Knicks last night – once again!!

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I do know that:

Jeff Teague – finally given the starting position but he still fails to meet the mark.

JJ – Is already on the decline with that Chipper Jones type contract.

Marvin – I would rather have anyone starting over him.

JS – He is not gonna listen to Drew, so somethings gotta give.

Al – Hope he heals well, but dont hurry.

LD – Probably one of the worse coaches in the league right now.

Sund – See above.

ASG – Also see above.

But i will continue to root for the team until they get eliminated then jump on a band wagon afterward.

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OB, good point. I think I once heard that more Auburn alum live in metro Atlanta than any other city/town in the nation (including Alabama cities/towns).

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Using hoop data, Teague actually ranks 76th out of 80 pgs listed for rebounds per game per 40. Harris and Baron Davis is below him and are normally good rebounders.

Sorry had to find a site with the most subjects available.

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Najeh- The Falcons had a league leading 9 pro bowlers not too long ago. The product couldn’t have gotten any better than what the Falcons just put out. Being in the top 8 is reasonable if they made it there.

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I just sold out…..got $200 for my tickets to the Thunder game, March 3. Could not go to the game anyways, since I have a prior commitment. Hope that means the Hawks will play great that night and win in memorable fashion.

Also, hope I find a blindfold on my seat tonight. Game will be hard to watch. Getting blownout by my least favorite player (Howard) = not fun

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303,

These Hawks are very unpredictable. I think they will lose tonight, but it will not surprise me if its closer than you think.

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Rod, don’t think you like Marvin much? Please confirm.

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If folk in Atlanta think our sports team are perrinial losers, they should move to Cleveland. Losing (IMO) is a sub .500 record. There is a difference between losing and not winning championships. Sorry, but watching a few months of a basketball team that wins 45-55 games is completely different than watching a team that produces 13-37 wins. I don;t care about what happnes in the 3-4 weeks of the playoffs… losing is what happened during the early Woody years. Or before Blank took over the Falcons. Or before 1991 withthe Braves. THAT’S LOSING!

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Rod,

I agree that Marvin has not lived up to the draft or contract hype. However, except for T-Mac, JJ (who didnt play last night), and maybe Josh, isn’t Marvin the next best SF on the team?

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I saw the game last night and I was dissapointed. I didn’t like the passing; lazy careless passes, careless dribbling into a crowd of 3 knicks in the paint (Teague), and lazy defense (not diving for loose balls), and an assortment of turnovers. When I see that kind of body language, that to me, means the team has given up on themselves. Forget the coach; the players have already given up on LD. Just watch the first 5 minutes of tonights game, if you can; most of us will be watching the Heat vs Knicks (Linsanity). Phillips will be more than half empty, or barely half full (for all you positive folks out there). The Hawks are a joke. It’s just a reflection on the management. The management folds its hands and don’t make moves when they should-or makes the wrong (stupid) moves when they shouldn’t-a total dissconnect. I’ll flip my remote to see the Hawks vs Orlando every now and then, but my focus will be on the Knicks-who will have playoff implications with the seeding at the end of the season.

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Prison mike, his rebounding is awful for a pg but he is 4th in blks for point guards, and top ten in the league in steals, i’ll take that trade off. He get’s ran off a thousand screens and hawks help d is the worst.

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Kevin, all I am saying is it is all relative and this is not losing, this is not winning championships. If given the option of being a hopeful fan of a 35 game winner or being the frustrated fan of a 48-game winner… sorry, I personally find watching months of winning basketball far more entertaining than not.

Of course I want more. But just because I want someone who looks like Sofia Vergara, doesn’t mean I won’t fully appreciate Eva Longoria while I have her, because I was once with Roseann Barr and I have no intention of going back.

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“Rod, don’t think you like Marvin much? Please confirm.”

I have no problem with him as a person, seems like a very nice guy, but he honestly is one of the worst profesional basketball players that I have ever seen. Professional includes overseas as well.

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But if given the choice between an 8 seed and missing the playoffs, give me a lottery pick.

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O’Brien, the season they lost to the LAL in the playoffs, KG had more games where he didn’t score over 10-15. I was trying to make it plural (seasons) instead of “season”.

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I was just riding in buckhead around lunch time, and rolled up right next to Arthur Blank in his V-12 black benz. I wanted so badly to roll down the window and ask him to please find somebody or make a move and buy this Hawks franchise. Even though the Falcons have not won squat either, I know that there is no way possible, that he would sit around and let this terribly mismanaged team continue down the same road.

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Top 32 Draft Busts of the Last Decade (according to the bleacher report)

Robert Swift, No. 12, 2004, Seattle SuperSonics (Rick Sund GM)

The brass in Seattle should have seen what was coming—Swift had refused to work out for teams before the draft and maybe that little clue would later speak volumes about his abilities or lack thereof. In just 97 games, Swift averaged just 4.3 points per game and recently left the D-League’s Bakersfield team which may indicate his career, at 24, is over.

Marvin Williams, No. 2, 2005, Atlanta Hawks (Billy Knight GM)

Williams has largely been a disappointment. His average after six seasons stands at 11.7 points per game—not exactly All-Star caliber. The conventional wisdom was that Williams as a pro would develop more of an offensive game as his minutes increased. That has not happened.

DerMarr Johnson, No. 6, 2000, Atlanta Hawks (Pete Babkock-GM)

DerMarr Johnson had it all: High School All-American and Parade’s National High School Player of the Year. He attended University of Cincinnati with future NBA players stars Kenyon Martin, Kenny Satterfield and draftee Steve Logan.

Sheldon Williams, No. 5, 2006, Atlanta Hawks (Billy Knight GM)

At 6′9″, 250, the Hawks felt they had a future All-Star defensive force when they drafted Williams. He didn’t get better at the next level; if anything, he regressed. Williams averaged just 5.5 points his first season and three points in just 11 minutes per game during his second campaign in Atlanta.

Mouhamed Sene, No. 10, 2006, Seattle SuperSonics (Rick Sund GM)

The 6′11″, 230-pound forward from Thies, Senegal just turned out to be a major bust and another example of bad scouting. In four campaigns with Seattle, Oklahoma City and the New York Knicks, Mouhamed Sene averaged just 2.2 points, 1.6 rebounds and no assists. That, my basketball friends, is mediocrity at its finest.

Vladimir Radmanovic, No. 12, 2001, Seattle (Rick Sund GM) SuperSonics

He came to the U.S. with a lot of fanfare in 2001. Vladimir Radmanovic was drafted by Seattle and has managed to survive 10 years in the NBA but his statistics certainly look like someone who was totally underachieving for such a high pick.

Honorable Mentioned Bust (added)

Josh Childress, No. 6, 2004, Atlanta Hawks (Billy Knight GM)

His average after six seasons stands at 9.7 points per game—not exactly All-Star caliber.

A C Law, No. 11, 2007, Atlanta Hawks (Billy Knight GM)

His average after nine seasons in the NBA is 3.9 points per game He has been with about as many NBA teams as the many tattoos on his body. He currently plays for Olympiacos B.C.

This list makes-up 25% of the top 32 NBA decade bust. Probably throughout the entire league, the Hawks leads in the rate of bust from one organization. If there was a hall of shame for such a category, Billy Knight and Rick Sund would easily be inducted.

Also from this list, it shows repeat blunders from Sund. Not only did he draft Vladimir and witness his decline in Seattle, but he signed him again for the Hawks as a FA. Though BK drafted Marvin, it was Sund who extended Marvin a five year, $37.5 million contract after falling short of expectation. So in Marvin’s case, Sund is guiltier than BK.

To Marvin credit however, his ppg average is slightly higher in the NBA compared to his college days (11.6 vs. 11.3). So relatively speaking, he has improved since college which technically doesn’t make him a bust (lol) if the criterion is based on his college performance.

So in hindsight, it is an indictment on BK for drafting him so high. He and Sund are really “the busts” for his current contract situation.

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astro:

Of course I want more. But just because I want someone who looks like Sofia Vergara, doesn’t mean I won’t fully appreciate Eva Longoria while I have her, because I was once with Roseann Barr and I have no intention of going back.

the man never had a good sense of humor. this proves it. i knew it.

speaking of having a sense of humor, i will be off to the highlight factory soon after my last patient leaves.

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Ans Astro I agree. I’d much rather be a fan of a team that perennially makes the playoffs, than a fan of a team in full rebuilding mode. Having said that, the middling playoff team shouldn’t be afraid to make changes to their roster, even if it means letting go of key guys. Can’t be in this league scared to do isht.

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Rebuild is right around the corner, but I cannot stress enough how important it is to have someone like Dennis Lindsay running the team, not Sund, before the rebuild starts. Do you want to entrust high lottery picks to Sund?

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^seen

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“Lol Rod. Look at the metrics of the season. Vlad has been much worse than Marvin. Vlad is even worse if you took out his production during garbage time.”

I don’t need to look at any metrics. You know what i look at. Vlad can complete a layup without falling. He does not get his shot blocked by the rim or the bottom of the backboard. If he is left wide open, he is a great shooter. He has to be accounted for offensively when he is on the floor. He is a deadly 3 point shooter, so he actually does space the floor, Marvin does not. He can dribble the ball more than 2 times without passing. He does not get to play with the starters, so we will never know what kind of damage he can do, but as of today, I would much rather see that ball going from one side of the floor to Vlad standing wide open in the corner than Marvin. I actually don’t like Vlad game either, but he is better than Marvin. No way possible he ever steps on the floor for 20 something minutes, and does not score any points.

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http://hoopshype.com/rumors/tag/dennis_lindsey

The guy who presses RC Buford’s shirts knows more about NBA basketball than anyone in the Hawks organization.

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E43: “Najeh Davenpoop- There simply isn’t enough firepower to bring big names to the Atlanta sports network. 420,000(8% international) people just isn’t enough considering a city like New York has 8mil+. Atlanta just like Greenbay and Indiana just don’t have that firepower”

Um, nah. The majority of the 5 and a half million people in Metro Atlanta still stay within the main core Counties with a reasonable commute to Atlanta. lol Sure, Metro ATL is stretched out, but lets not act like that 5 million is evenly spread out.
ATL is the 9th or 10 largest TV Market. What you’re saying makes no sense, unless you really think “Austin, TX” is bigger than Atlanta or that “Mesa, Arizona” is bigger than Miami

northcyde: “Lol @ using Atlanta’s actual city population, and not the metro population number of almost 5 million”

I know, what is that guy talkin’ about.

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Scrub vs Scrub

( league avg based on SFs who play at least 15 minutes per game )

AT RIM: Vlad – 42.1% ….. Marvin – 48.6% ( both % are horrible ) ….. league avg – 63.3%

3 – 9FT: Vlad – 0% …… Marvin – 37.5% ( Vlad only had 4 shots in this area ) ….. league avg – 37%

10 – 15FT: Vlad – 0% ….. Marvin – 50% ( Vlad had 3 shots, Marvin had 2 ) ….. league avg – 37.1%

16 – 23FT: Vlad – 27% ….. Marvin – 33% ….. league avg – 35%

3 POINT: Vlad – 37% ….. Marvin – 44% ….. league avg – 35%

O.reb%: Vlad – 4.8 ….. Marvin 6.2 ….. league avg – 4.0

D.reb%: Vlad – 15.5 ….. Marvin 19.5 ….. league avg – 14.3

T.reb%: Vlad – 10.2 ….. Marvin – 12.9 ….. league avg – 9.1

Scrub vs Scrub winner = Marvin

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the Hawks are currently down to Josh Smith and Jeff Teague for the foreseeable future or at most the next two weeks. The reality this atlanta Hawks team will not be able to compete with the upper tier teams in the league in both conferences. With this current configuration, they may (with the return of Joe Johnson) squeeze their way into the playoff and not much else. Lets face it this team is missing Al Holford. Al brings to the table High Percentage shooting, toughnest and tenacity on the defensive end of the court. At present the Hawks do not have any player on their roster to give them that ability. Years of not having a 1st round draft pick has resulted in a lack of depth and versatility the consistently good team have. The Hawks last 1st rounder, Jeff Teague, and if Mike Woodson was not replaced we might not have known of his talents. The solution to this season is for the Atl Hawk org (Rick) is to acquire a player in a trade who can bring a High percentage shot to the court before the trade deadline.

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