Updated: Johnson on Hawks’ woes: ‘We are too self conscious about [who is] scoring’

Lol. And I just ripped Viv in the last blog about not having a new blog ready. This is more like it, even if it is late.

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does josh and teague really play well together?
new coach will solve alot of problems he will have the guts to tell josh hes a superstar in the paint. and let teague bring the ball up 98% of the time he has to be in the game to do that(See LD). until then this team will be disfunctional no matter how good a spirited win is.
Cant wait till March 1st.

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Hmmm, I wondered if Joe was going to say he’s been guilty of it, too, but based on his comments toward the end of the quote, I have to wonder if he’s saying guys need to get the ball in my hands more.

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“Before both games, coach Larry Drew said, in effect, if his team couldn’t get motivated for such a contest there is something wrong.”

I’ll tell you what’s wrong:

COACHING ERRORS

I’m so damm sick and tired of being sick and tired of (CLD) Clueless LD and his small-ball coaching, I’ve seen enough. His decision to go small and with a starting line-up of Willie Green (6’3”) at SG on Ronnie Brewer (6’7”) was a costly mistake. The deleted Hawks already struggling with rebounding, this line-up made a bad situation worst. Green collected a grand total of 1 rebound and 6 points the entire game to Brewer’s 6 rebounds and 13 points. Didn’t LD get the memo, IF YOU CAN’T REBOUND; YOU CAN’T WIN.

Not only that, but he also put Willie Green in a straight-jacket making him the 4th/5th scoring option as a starter in this structured offense because JJ and Josh will always take the majority of the shots. Green was 3-6 meaning he only took 6 shots. This is a guy who efficiency rating was almost 80% the previous game and he takes just 6 shots deferring to JJ and Josh in his starting role. LD should have kept Green in his familiar role, coming off the bench and freelancing.

You’ll think after seeing this mistake early enough in the ball-game, LD would make the proper adjustment and get T-mac in the game as the 1st sub. So what does LD do? His 1st sub is a struggling KH for Jeff Teague who previously had made two 3’s trying to regain his MOJO. I’m still trying to figure out how can Teague play nearly 24 min and only take 3 shots (2-3) as a PG and couldn’t contribute more. Maybe it is because Teague is getting mixed signals from his coach who is still playing politics with his PGs.

T-mac (6’8”) would have been the best option to start at SF matching-up JJ (6’7”) on Brewer and T-mac on Deng. That would have been the closest lineup to replicate Marvin’s absence. T-mac rebounding and posting-up ability alone might have made the difference in the first half when, in hindsight, determined the outcome of the game. Considering the 4th qtr run the Hawks made, it was partially due to T-mac’s involvements and attributes.

But (CLD) Clueless LD decided to cut his nose to spite his face. He would rather send the “I’m the coach in charge” message to T-mac and sat him as the last sub off the bench instead of trying to win a desperately needed ball game. ASSSSHOL#E

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The coach is a problem. That is for sure. He holds grudges and is a little weak and too timid for me. With that being said, this core group of Hawks players is the main reason why we suck. Starting with Marvin Williams who should have been out of here about 3 years ago. He is slow, nonathletic and even his jump shot is not falling. Joe Johnson is and will never be a leader. He is soft, and too laid back to be great. He is not a winner at all and will not be unless he is surrounded by players with heart. Josh Smith is too sensitive. We dont know what to expect when he plays. He has the most talent of anyone on the team and yet, he doesnt lead or try to. Al Horford is our best player and even he gets pulled down by the other three. Jeff Teague doesn’t know what to do. In the playoffs he just let it all out. Now Larry has messed his head up so much he dont know if hes coming or going. I could go on and on but why? The Hawks have shown us time and time again that they are all talk and no substance. They let people talk about them like they dont even exist and all they do is prove them right. And you know what, they will continue spitting in our faces with the way they play because they have no heart and do not care. Its a shame.

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northcyde: Easy. A guy has to get from Chicago to New York.

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If we don’t beat NY, we are in major trouble.

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Rocky, Joe wasn’t talking about Josh at all. Anyone can tell Joe loves playing with Josh. And in fact many of Joe’s assisted buckets come from Josh. Its Josh who’s always looking for Joe on the perimeter off of fast breaks or out of double teams, unlike Teague. Joe’s comments were in regards to Marvin’s complaining about being more offensively in the game plan.

Either way, CV should’ve asked Joe will we ever see him get 8-10 rebounds in a game. And why isn’t Joe challenging for more triple doubles. He has the perfect frame to be a triple double threat weekly.

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Tomorrow, Teague will have the entire league watching him as he goes up against Lin. Teague needs to play his best game of the season, or become another Twitter hash tag: I.E. “Lin scores on jumper #wheresTeague”

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Joe made these two statements:

“I just think we should all have one agenda, one goal and that is winning the basketball game. Not who scores what, who does what.”

“I think we just have to start getting the ball into the right people’s hands who make plays, who score the basketball and make others better. That’s it.”

Anybody else find this amazingly contradictory? We need to not care who scores, but get the ball into the right people’s hands?

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The wheels have come off the wagon. Can these guys rally to repair the wagon or remain broke down on the side of the road.

I agree with Stackhouse, every (most) team have at least one bad stretch during the season but it’s up to them to play thru it and correct it…

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Fellow fans. “Josh Smith is a superstar in the paint”. Problem is he’s 6′8 225 lbs.
Troy Murphy, Lavoy Allen (PHI), etc give him problems. Lamarcus Aldridge.

He has shown he cant get into the paint when he has giants covering him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpPprAjDeG0

pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
sf Marvin Williams
c Al Horford

The sf is the glue guy who often does a little of everything. Now we have two sfs and 2 different directions we can go. Marvin Williams or Josh Smith

Also the reason Johnson is a “guard” and not a ‘forward” is his complete lack of length and rebounding he provides to the position.

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Honest Abe,

Man i was watching the game yesterday and saw Hinrich slap his hands together in disbelief after Josh blew him and Green off. They were both wide open, but Josh jacked up a 20 footer therefore helping to kill any moment they would muster.

The guy is an unbelievable talent but at the same time an unbearable teammate and im pretty sure there are more than a few players in that locker room that hates to play with the guy.

But all this Josh Smith supporters thinks he can do no wrong and that he got shafted by not being an All-star. But it shows that after being in the league over 7 years and not ONE appearance in the game that the fans and coaches know what they dont know.

Atlanta needs to trade this guy, cause right now his super athletic and dumb. Trade now and get something for him before he is super dumb and unathletic!

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Chris is it really that taboo to speak about making Josh Smith our Luol Deng, the small forward of the team.

Josh Smith is more like Deng than Marvin Williams will ever be. Its time to give it up for a physical lineup. I nominate Ivan as a stop gap starter to move Smith over to that Luol Deng role.

pg Jeff Teague
sg Joe Johnson
sf Josh Smith
pf Ivan Johnson
c Zaza Pachulia

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No joe you are too soft and quiet for the nba. you rather lay around and count the pair of jordans you have rather than show heart on the court

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Shut up Joe Johnson, you are a loser and always will be, just retire and enjoy your big piles of money.

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stretch – i’ve been a broken record on josh for the last 4 years. sometime’s i think i’m just copying and pasting from previous blogs.

woody wasn’t scared to tangle with josh. he wasn’t scared to let him know who’s boss. ld goes ahead and makes him a captain. wtf? there isn’t a coach in america that would sit idly by and let josh continue to shoot jumper after jumper. it’s gotten so bad that josh could care less what anyone else thinks he’s hell bent to prove he can take and make that shot. i understand what josh is thinking make a few of those jumpers, draw out the bigger defender and then take him off the dribble. there’s one problem with that scenario, josh’s jumper is offensive. he more than anyone else on the team needs to understand his role.

1. take less shots.
2. scrap for o-rebounds/set hard picks/and dive to the basket
3. fill the wings on the fast break
4. stop trying to make the home run pass and instead just make the necessary one.
5. focus on rebounding, defending and running with a passion and he’ll be a perennial all star. easy.

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Sautee

My sentiments exactly @ 2:04 pm

Well said;;my friend

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And I’ll go one further (for all of the Teague lovers out there), I think Joe is sticking up for Teague in these comments. I think he recognizes that a scoring Teague makes the team much better than the wannabe-pass-first-PG who has looked amazingly pedestrian the past few games. I think Joe is saying “let the young PG look for his shot” without anyone breathing down his neck about it. I think the players who are concerned about who is shooting aren’t concerned about Joe shooting, they are more likely concerned about the PG shooting. Meanwhile, this PG loses a goodly portion of his effectiveness if he isn’t in full attack mode.

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Sautee, I honestly think Joe is saying, “let Teague score and don;t worry that his position is PG”. I think that is the coming together of the “don’t worry who scores” and “let playmakers do their thing” comment. So while he thinks they shouldn’t care who shoots, I don’t think that he is advocating for Zaza to double his shot attempts.

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on the bright side we get to hear bob rathbun throw out some more jeremy lin puns tomorrow night. can’t wait!

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abe, i was thinking that in the middle of our team dysfunction, we get to play the Knicks. I don’t think Carmelo has won a game in a long, long time. And folk want to trade for that guy. Denver has been better without him and even the Knicks have been better without him.

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“dude leaves the team to attend a funeral and the next thing you know, he is balking for the first time in his career about his usage with the team. No quotes. No sources. Just an allegation that coincides with dude going to a family funeral.” AJ

I wondered the same thing. What’s worse, it is spinning as if it was fact. I know the haters are in hog heaven with this story despite the fact the man is recovering from a family loss. I doubt the man was in that frame of mind at the time. Lol, did the source attend the funeral too and Marvin blurted that out while he was grieving?

I’m trying to imagine. It just doesn’t seem natural

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Sautee, I tend to ignore the grammar usage and sentence structure of athletes and bloggers… irregardless (pun intended) of my fondness for quality writing.

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*[too]* long // not // to long // what a doofus // with to oo’s

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Astro, I agree. Sautee, don’t waste anymore of your life trying to disect what these guys say to the media. It is all the same recycled BS we here every year. Probably fed to them by some PR coach.

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aj: man oh man. tomorrow night could get ugly. no jj or al. is there any chance the hawks win tomo? i think teague if given ample opportunity will give lin problems on both ends. he’s not quick enough to keep up with teague. other than that i don’t see how the hawks are going to match up.

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Grandad, 2:56 I can agree with that. And I still believe much of it stems from the organization. If you substitute the ‘team’ word for the word owners, management, or coaching staff (remember Woody and LD getting into it often on sideline), the statement is still true. For much of the ‘core’ this is the only team/organization they’ve ever played for. So they truly don’t know anything else besides professional dysfunction.

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co-sign Stro Joe’s 2:37

“I think we just have to start getting the ball into the right people’s hands who make plays, who score the basketball and make others better. That’s it.”

“very talented team, but I [don’t know] whether guys know their roles or not,”

preach.

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@ PG slim

If Josh is going to continue to jack up jumpers even when ice cold, that is the type of personnel needed on the floor. But you can’t have him taking most of the shots from the SF position because he’s not going to post up. He’s going to stay out on the perimeter just like he did last year. And since he’s not making jumpers anywhere near the clip he was last year, that would be a recipe for disaster.

A major part of the reason why the Hawks were 2nd or 3rd in offensive efficiency in Woody’s last year, was because of our extremely low turnover rate and our high offensive rebound rate. But since Drew installed his offense, both of those numbers have plummeted. And worse, it took Smith away from the rim on the offensive end. His offensive rebound rate and offensive dating is the lowest of his career. His defensive rebound rate and devensive ratinv is at his highest.

So Josh’s worth to the Hawks is not his offense, it’s his defense. So the coach shouldn’t let him do what he wants on offense.

Which brings us to the other problem. Teague’s leadership skills, which I think as non-existant. A leader type PG could take over this team even when Josh, JJ and others get wild offensively. But because Teague is more of a scoring PG in the mold of Earl Boykins and Nate Robinson, He isn’t able to lead

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abe, as you know, when 99% of the world is betting against these guys, they often (not always) shock the world. Between the arrival of Melo, JR Smith and Baron Davis to the Knicks rotation (after the launch of Linsanity), I wouldn’t be surprised if the magic has been permanently lost. Knicks don’t scare me, even with Joe & Al MIA.

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aj – true that. hawks always seem to find a way to surprise when it’s the least likely. but, i have a bad feeling about tomorrow night. if there was ever a night for melo and stoudamire to go off … tomorrow would be it.

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I ain’t seen Stackhouse play yet. What can he know about these Hawks ?

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misspelled & or typos:

*aren’t + *employ

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northcyde, LD didn’t want the Hawks to focus on offensive rebounding because it left the team vulnerable to easy transition baskets (which definitely happened during Woody). And with LD convinced that he could employ a scheme that would improve FG%, he likely figured that he could maintain offensive efficiency without the need to leave the backcourt vulnerable. Honestly, that logic is quite sound. Of course, the offensive scheme is far from being consistently effective and with so many jumpers being shot (and missed), it kind of screams “OFFENSIVE REBOUND”. I personally get more frustrated watching opposing teams grab offensive rebounds, as it is NOT a coaching decision not to rebound the ball on the defensive end (although playing Ivan so infrequently calls that into doubt).

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The history of Marvin is that when JJ is out, Marvin balls. Let’s see if this holds true in these next 2 games. But knowing Drew, Green will probably start again with T-Mac at the 3.

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Northcyde, Marvin stated he wants to have an increased role OFFENSIVELY. What could that mean if not for shot attempts? There are certainly many opportunities for him to get on the offensive glass and to CONTRIBUTE more offensively. The guy can’t score on players who are 3-4 inches shorter than him. And he can’t grab a rebound over them. So what other increased role does he expect? He can’t dribble more than three dribbles at a time. He can’t take you one on one to set up another teammate.

And I don’t think Josh minds Teague scoring. But what he is saying is, get your teammates going first, as a point guard and then when you drive the lane, you’re have an easier time finishing at the rim. Because right now, the defense isn’t expecting you to pass it or kick it out, so they’re collapsing on you, leading to a more difficult shot attempt. Just two weeks ago, Joe said he agreed with what Josh was saying about the offense and ball movement (by the way, Josh is leading team in assists through the last month), while LD was saying the problem is defense.

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Ra’mon, technically, we haven’t read any quotes from Marvin about his role in the offense. Just a report with no identified sources. And again, interesting timing considering that dude has been dealing with a family death in the past few days. Maybe Broussard “sees dead people” and they are the sources reporting Marvin’s concerns.

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So Marvin wants out huh? lmao

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Shut up Joe. Told you guys on the blog before the Bulls game that over/under on rebounds by Joe was 2. Dam, I was dead on it. What is that 6 rebounds in his last 4 games? Tired of hearing his crap. DO SOMETHING JOHNSON or shut up.

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Joe Trippin…”self-conscious about who”s scoring”?

You are not scoring, you are shooting and missing and missing and missing….

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AJ, I trust Broussard’s report more than anyone else at ESPN short of Stephen A.

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Big Lou,

But you and I both know that management, Sund and Drew has made their big splash for this season by picking up Dampier.

So Josh will continue his ways due to the fact they dont want to rock the boat anymore. Its all about making moves at this point with this CORE. You just dont blow the whole thing up at one time, but thats what these idiots are going to try and do.

JS should have been moved last season for a SF that would compliment the type of offense the Hawks run. They run mostly through JJ, with guys standing around.

JS and Marvin are slashers but JJ holds the ball a lot so they were in desperation of a SF that could also create his own shots. And we now see whats happening, teams are doubling Joe and letting JS shoot bricks and they are off to the races!

But they dont think with conveintional common sense like the rest of us. For example, a lineup of:

JT KH/Pargo
JJ WG
(Insert SF that can score)T-Mac/Marvin
Al/(At his natural position)/Ivan/Vlad
Zaza/Dampier/Cheesburger Collins

They could have probably had Caron Butler, Stephen Jackson, John Salmons or even a Michael Beasley or Martell Webster!

Just a sorry and piss poor run organization!

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“Based on my projections, if Joe Johnson misses ASG and Stern doesn’t pick Josh Smith, Smoove will avg. 40 pts, 28 reb. post AS”

Now that’s pretty funny. Josh could go Super Saiyan and still get passed over with Stern not even blinking.

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Ra’mon, hawks are 24th in rebounding for the season. I try not to react to a sample of one (in this case Portland). Regarding Joe’s recent performance, he has been bad, no doubt. I suspect that his knee didn’t develop tendinitis overnight in Chicago. I recall a similar bout with poor shooting last year when his elbow was the issue. For some bizarre reason, i find it easier to forgive physical problems like an elbow that needs surgery or a knee that requires attention, than long-standing mental issues like passing the ball to the PG to lead a fast break. But I acknowledge that others think differently.

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The Hawks just plain stink. Johnson and Williams are nothing more than overpaid ball boys. When is Sund going to wake up and dump the both of them. They contribute nothing to the synergy of the team much less any scoring. Both of them have been kept around way too long.

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AJ, out of all of the mental ‘lapses’ they say Josh has, he still only average 2 turnovers a game. The same as our fearless leader. As well as the same as Melo, Amare, Wade, and others. But foolish Josh right.

Abe, I didn’t say Josh is missing because he’s too wide open. I’m saying don’t say Joe has only scored 20 points ONCE this entire month because of double teams.

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Ra’mon

If you believe that;
two turnovers per game for Josh;
is accurate;
then please start counting them yourself.
I will wager you that his turnover avg should be at least double.
I’ll wager all the money in my pockets right now.
(’course I ain’t wearin’ any britches at the moment)

*[one ought not ever wager with ol' G-dad]

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this team is long passed KA BOOM!!! more sad and pathetic by the day/season…BORING sums it up!!!

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Ra’mon, Josh makes plenty of boneheaded decisions IMO. I may be the one and only blogger on the planet who believes that. And I sleep very well each and every night being a lone wolf who believes that he makes too many boneheaded decisions. He is a remarkable talent who usually overcomes his own human condition to produce terrific results. But when we discuss going from the status quo to another level, Josh also should be expected to go to another level. Likewise, when we evaluate specific points in time when a game goes from good to bad, we need not isolate those times for player A while routinely focusing on the totality of Josh’s performance. If a player can miss an ill-timed shot, then surely, Josh could have an ill-time boneheaded play.

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AJ, what top 20 level player doesn’t take an ill-timed shot in a 3-5 game span? You name any of the top 20 players in the league, and I can show you multiple times when they’ve made ill-time boneheaded plays. Why? Because they are in the position to make more boneheaded plays than the average player. And like so, they also make more productive plays than other players, because they’re in the position more than others, i.e. Josh.

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Well this is something new never seen the “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

Someone want to explain that or have I been blind the last 2 years?

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At least in both my trades I had us taking both Bynum and Gasol back from the lakers, but only for Josh, Kirk, and Zaza

Actually giving up just Marvin at the trade deadline for Jason Thompson or Ariza would be fine with me.

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Larry Drew + Josh Smith = horse crap.

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Ra’mon

None of that would happen. No one is paying Joe and sad thing is no one wants to pay ZERO either at $7.5 million. The trade I would like to see is Horford, Kirk, and Marvin to New Orleans for Okafor and Ariza. The money matches up and Kirk is off the books after this year. Lineup of Teague, Joe, Ariza, Josh, and Okafor would be formidable.

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Horford, Kirk, and Marvin to New Orleans for Okafor and Ariza..

I meant Kirk, Horford and ZERO for Okafor and Ariza…

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By the way, I actually believe the Knicks would trade Melo for Joe and another player or draft pick. D’antoni would like to have Joe even more so than Melo, now that Lin has been discovered.

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I take Kaman over Okafor every day of the week.

I think he fits in well here, but it is not realistic with Sund.

And I think we are seeing the best of Josh…no other good team gives him this much freedom. Fill the role you’re supposed to fill…you aren’t Magic or LeBron.

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AJ, as much as I don’t like Josh’s shot selection he’s caring this team and we’re going to have to live with the mistakes. Ra’mon, you can ask Joe to be somebody he’s not all you want, but the fact is he’s a jump-shooter who gets really hot sometimes, enough times to be a multi-year All-Star. Clearly the problem is inside play and we were weak inside with Al and we’re even weaker without him. Hopefully these next two games will give guys more of an opportunity to show what they can do. LD can get some mismatches with Ivan and Tracy coming off the bench, if he can find the right line-up. The zone and full court trap could also be effective against NY, he’s just got to mix things up. We’re going to have real problems with Amare, Anthony and Chandler inside, but that was going to happen anyways, so all 5 guys are going to have to go after defensive boards.

GO HAWKS!!

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To be honest, I’m just tired of this franchise altogether long as the current owners are here. Sund, LD, and Gearon are each below average at their positions. And Joe, Josh, and Al are the only people in the building who are ABOVE average at their respective positions. That’s why at the end of the day, I rarely complain about either of the three.

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I’m sure that it’s not that JT can’t be a leader,but he can’t because LD is always on his ass. LD has done every thing possible to make sure that JT doesn’t succeed . He has tried to not play him for 2 years now. Of course LD has lost this team.

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W.R.Terrell,

Marvin for whatever reason is becoming disatisfied and I think his game has suffered because of the wannabe ALLSTAR for years.

…You think? ZERO is dissatisfied because he’s a bum that gets his sh*t punched twice a game. Dumb play with low basketball IQ is becoming one of the best shot blockers in the history of the game and he is shorter than all the others up there with him. Other than the jump shots and turnovers, the guy fills up the stat sheet. And the REAL reason Childress flew the coop was because the Hawks wanted to bring him back on a player off the bench salary, and not a starter. Childress “flew the coop” because he knew he should have been starting over ZERO, and he proved it in the playoffs vs Boston. That’s the real reason he left.

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The Hawks haven’t had a good coach since Lenny Wilkens, and even he wasn’t some world beater.

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“I’m so damm sick and tired of being sick and tired of (CLD) Clueless LD and his small-ball coaching, I’ve seen enough. His decision to go small and with a starting line-up of Willie Green (6’3”) at SG on Ronnie Brewer (6’7”) was a costly mistake. The deleted Hawks already struggling with rebounding, this line-up made a bad situation worst. Green collected a grand total of 1 rebound and 6 points the entire game to Brewer’s 6 rebounds and 13 points. Didn’t LD get the memo, IF YOU CAN’T REBOUND; YOU CAN’T WIN.”

Exactly.

From top to bottom, this organization thinks rebounding is solely a matter of effort. Hence, LD calling out the team for effort when they get their ass kicked on the boards.

No, rebounding is just as much about skill and toughness. This is why 6′11″ Vlad gets his ass beat on the boards by shorter PFs every single f-cking game. I’m not picking on Vlad; it’s not his fault the coach plays him out of position solely based on his height ahead of 6′8″ Ivan.

Yes, the Hawks have problems with effort and mental toughness as well. But it’s understandable to get frustrated when you play good D for 24 seconds, force a bad shot, and give up an offensive rebound because you don’t have the appropriate personnel on the floor to grab the board and go the other way.

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Captain Jax seems to be the leading candidate for Marvin Williams.

Mil. trades Jax, 2nd rounder for Duck, filler. For the record, I love the second round prospects in this draft.

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The bottom line is this. When Al Horford was injured the team understood that everyone needed to play harder and do more. Which guy on the team has upped his play since Horford went down? The only guy who has picked his play up is Josh. His scoring is up, rebounding is up, FG% is up. I hate to see Josh jack jump shots as much as the next man, but if he sits arounds and waits on Marvin Williams, and Joe Johnson to make something happen, he will be waiting a long time. Basically, Josh ain’t scared, and Marvin and Joe both play like they are. It’s a bad combination of guys, which we all know, and something needs to be done about it.

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“I will give Barkley this…when he went on his 3 hour, agenda spewing, broadcast of the first Hawks/Heat game at Philips, he made a comment about not understanding how a group that has been together for so long, still needed a coach to tell them where to go/what to do. He has a point there. I have to concede that. Every year we have situations like this where Joe or some other player talks about guys being confused about their role. Do not understand why this is a problem.”

Nobody knows their role because nobody on this team has ever had one. The Hawks haven’t had a real coach in more than a decade.

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“Even though Josh is a cancer (a slow killing yet possible curable issue), LD is a fifty caliber bullet that penetrates the brain of this team, obliterating its hopes/ambitions, as its soft tissues spew upon the floor of unused potential.”

I don’t agree entirely, but this was a great line. Had to give you props for that.

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Melo for Joe and 2013 first rounder?

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“G’Dad, if you’re going to do that, then you have to start counting EVERY player’s turnovers yourself also, you can’t just do one player, other wise it would have no control in the observation. ”

CO-SIGN. This business about Josh’s turnover numbers being fabricated is just foolish.

If we are going to arbitrarily declare certain stats invalid, then sh-t, let’s go all out. I bet Joe actually gets 9 rebounds a game and the scorers are just counting wrong. I bet Teague gets 15 assists per game and the scorers just count wrong. I bet Zaza gets 20 boards a game but the scorers just hate white people.

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“The only way the Hawks are going to acquire elite players is by trading core players for lottery picks.”

If this is the case, then we CERTAINLY need a better draft guru then Sund. But I guess that goes without saying, huh?

We are so screwed.

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Ra’mon

Josh’s turnover are ludickulous; that’s why I count them.

One can be unselfish & stupid at the same time.

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“Carmelo led the Nuggets to the conference finals. You know, that place the Hawks have never been, ever, in their entire time here.”

Cosign. I have no idea where this fairytale stuff comes from. The Nuggets are better without Carmelo. The Hawks are better without Jamal Crawford. If the Nuggets don’t get past the Conference Finals, they are not better without Melo. If the Hawks don’t get out of the first round, or win more than 2 games in the second round, they are not better without Jamal. That’s the botton line. Many of you say these things because you like team ball, but individual players win playoff games most of the time.

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Also hard to see Smith’s shooting % going down at SF when people would double him in the post and he’d be getting the typical SF transition opportunities (high % dunks).

LD said Smith can run well then send Ivan and Zaza to the boards and let him run.

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kwooden

February 21st, 2012
5:10 pm
AJ, as much as I don’t like Josh’s shot selection he’s caring this team

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You’d be surprised how candid the “PR guy” is on Twitter about the team. He’s a lot more critical than Bob and Nique, who are technically supposed to be neutral as members of the media.

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kwooden … I think I shall try again.

‘`as much as I don’t like Josh’s shot selection he’s caring this team`’

I do not know if *carrying is the correct word for a team that is what ?
3 and 7 in it’s last 10.
Normally, *carrying is implied when a team is *winning.

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No JJ tomorrow. That should be interesting. With the way Joe has been playing lately, the loss shouldn’t be as significant as it could be with a healthy Joe. However, with no Al and no JJ, I really worry about how Josh will play. He may take 30 shots tomorrow. Let’s hope not. Leave the scoring to the scorers, just play defense and run the floor, and look to attack the hoop and finish at the basket. That’s my message for Josh.

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This works:

Melo to LAL ….. [this make Kobe very happy]

Joe to NY Knicks … [D'Antoni + Amar`e & Lin = happy]

Hawks get Pau Gasol ……… [G-dad is the most happy]

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Of all people who call out the team, Joe “We don’t care if the fans show up” Johnson.

The sooner this team is broken up the better and take the owners with you.

ATL just does not like this team, its not a likable bunch.

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Wow, that didn’t work either.

{nimbers}text here{/nimbers}

Replace the {} with the angle brackets (press shift-comma and shift-period)

Replace “nimbers” with “strong” for bold, “em” for italic, and “strike” for strike through.

For links, replace “nimbers” with this:

a href=”http://yourlinkhere.porn” (with the quotes)

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“Leave the scoring to the scorers, just play defense and run the floor, and look to attack the hoop and finish at the basket. That’s my message for Josh.”

Josh still has the highest player efficiency rating on the team. Who the hell are the scorers on the team with Joe and Al out.

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Deron Williams was available from the Jazz for Al Horford ++. But I guess Sund would not trade big for small. I wouldnt have done it either tbh

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Lakers called a players-only meeting after WINNING. We usually win after players-only meetings. What’s the holdup?

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So basically we have 2 guys and sometimes Teague who can take it inside and score.

Josh Smith should give the ball up to which scorers? He more or less said its him and JJ thats it.

Marvin gets locked up by SGs.
JJ gets locked up by SFs.
Smith gets forced outside/locked up by PFs.

Move Ivan in for power and move them all up a position and see if our offense runs smoother like it did in Orlando (against some soft forwards).

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Meanwhile… Sund and LD have absolutely no idea what is going on….

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“Would like to see the lineup with

Jeff
Tmac
Marv
Josh
Zaza”

This is what they should do tomorrow. Of course, what they will end up doing is Jeff-Green-Marv-Josh-Zaza, with Kirk the first guard off the bench, Vlad the first forward off the bench, and negligible minutes for Ivan and Dampier.

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I’d like to see…Three 6′9″ guys in the middle, that’s what Knight said.

#ThingsHawksFansSay

prison mike Joe Johnson was 6′7 in barefeet on draft day. Same as Smith and Marvin Williams.

This IS what Billy Knight wanted. Josh Smith rebounding and outletting to a geriatric McGrady and a man who bricks layups and frequently gets blocked in transition?

No Josh Smith should be the SF the glue guy. He should be allowed to defend and crash boards and run. He’s earned the position and is ATL’s only chance at respectability.

If the Hawks bungle this Josh Smith vs McGrady vs Marvin situation the will never be respected by NBA free agents again. Its very clear Josh Smith is the key and has been playing an undersized matchup for years.

And P.S. Its not called undersized if you can actually score on the majority of taller players. Josh Smith cant.

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L.ooking back trading Al for Deron or D12 would have made the hawks a better team. Horford is the best trade piece to offer. and its a no brainier .

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“I couldnt agree more. All Jeff Teague and Al horford want to do is Hog the ball. Teague is such a ball hog that he wont dish it at all. Ive never seen a starting point guard produce as many 1 and 2 assist nights as a point guard. Once teague starts hogging the ball movement stops and every body just stands back and watch the hog at the trough.”

So saith the troll

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“Josh Smith should give the ball up to which scorers? He more or less said its him and JJ thats it.”

What fantasy world are you living in? Let’s look at a typical scenario when Josh gets the ball…

First of all, imagine he catches it on the wing or at the top of the key (the most common places he catches the ball). If he does not choose to pass, or make a play for someone else, what are his “scoring” options? Let’s see, he can take the initial jump shot if he is open, which is a low percentage shot. Or, he can try to size up his defender, jab step, and then take an ever lower percentage shot. Or, he can attempt to get by his defender and drive to the hoop to score, which will likely result in either a turnover from over-dribbling or poor ball-handling, or it will result in a missed shot at the or fadeaway/tough shot when someone cuts off Josh’s path to the basket. Unless he gets bailed out with a foul call, it’s a low percentage shot in that situation. Now, let’s assume instead that he attempts to back his man down all the way from the area where he catches the ball. If he’s going up against a bigger player, he likely won’t gain much ground, and if he’s going against a smaller player that he can overpower, they will either poke the ball away from him, or a double team will come before he can even get to a good position. It’s a bad situation, all the way around.

Unless Josh is looking to score off of a pick-and-roll, a cut to the basket, a put-back basket, or a post-up in which he has good position against a smaller player, it’s not a very high percentage shot. You can look at how poor Josh’s shooting percentages are when he is away from the basket as further evidence of this. As much as you like Josh, you need to realize that he is not a scorer. On this team, maybe you can get away with him being a 3rd option or even a 2nd option at times, but he is not a scorer, and against good defensive teams, he’s barely a scoring option unless he is getting his points through the methods I mentioned above.

On this team, catching the ball on the wing where Josh typically gets it, almost anyone is a more dangerous scoring option than Josh. Teague, while not very confident in his mid-range shot, can drive to the hoop finish with a layup or floater in many situations. Hinrich can shoot the ball and is crafty enough to use his escape dribble for an easier baseline shot, Pargo is a very streaky shooter but is more capable of scoring from the wing than Josh even if he does so off the dribble. Marvin knows how to actually use screens, come off of curls, and move without the ball to get an open shot that is a higher percentage shot than Josh’s perimeter shots are, T-Mac was an all-nba caliber scorer and is definitely a better option on the wing than Josh, even at this age. T-Mac actually has a mid-post game too. Willie Green, another streaky scorer, can even get you a higher percentage shot on the wing than Josh can get you from that location.

This illusion that Josh is the best scoring option we have outside of Joe is just insane with the way Josh looks to score his points. There is a reason why Josh is such an inefficient scorer at times, it’s because his shot selection is so poor, and because our coaching staff does a poor job of putting him in the proper situations to score effectively. If you were arguing that Josh should be the second option behind Joe on the current, injury-riddled team when he is scoring his points inside and off of movement to the basket, you may have a point, but with the way Josh plays on the offensive end right now, he is far from being a number one offensive option, incredibly far.

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Are the Bleacher Report writers stupid?!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1075036-atlanta-hawks-trade-rumors-should-hawks-trade-marvin-williams?utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=br_hawks&utm_source=twitter.com

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Im still trying to understand this Mediocre Movement Cult. It appear that your latest convert Illumination has become my amen corner. OK thats fine.

Why are you Moonies of the Mediocre Movement Cult so programmed to destroy the hawks with Mediocrity? There is nothing so robotically boring as a center producing 12pts 8 rbs and a point guard with 1 assist games.

Whats in your Kookaid and How much has Illumination The robotic troll had?

Every since you cut MV7 for this Mattie lice character Atlanta has been over whelmed with mediocre talent like Al horford and Jeff teague.

Whats it going to take to detox or unbrainwash you cultist?

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pointguradmuslim- BILLY KNIGHT said he like to see three 6′9 guys in the middle.

BILLY KNIGHT have not said such lie, i said i like for player’s to be long and athletic, so pointguardmuslim get your fact right bro.

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pointguardslim- Ive been saying that the Childress pick set this team back more than anything else. I refuse to believe that they planned on coming out with 2 SF’s before the draf.t They then ended up with both guys not even play SF after some of it is said and almost done.Somebody was going to play out of position any way you put it. I really think that they were hoping 6ft 7 Livingston dropped and then they panicked when it didn’t happen.

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tell me something if you got joe in the game holding the ball for 15 sconds of the time and you pass the ball back out to josh who is on the wing with 3 seconds left on the clock, do you think he’s his not surpose to shoot that you wrong. the problem are the plays they run and the iso crap they seem to think works but doesnt, joe is no kobe. He’s the only player that will go 0 of 9 in the first half and still contunie not to pass the ball, another problem when he has the ball he takes so long to decide what to do that when he passes the ball its to late and the shot becomes a bad shot. the point is that every one on any team has faults not just josh like you believe, and joe is in there to. yes josh would be better in the paint but the teams problem, like I said is 50% of the plays are iso joe and if he gets hisself in a bad place the team is in a bad place.

And all those who say josh needs to stop shooting, werent saying that when he’s make them. Joe johnson is 34% shooting from three point range and his shooting this season is barely over 40% this season overall. and josh is willing to pass unlike other teammates jackass

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I have always said that JJ brings our offense to a crawl. He spends so much time with the ball in his hands trying to do something often taking bad shots or giving the ball to Josh on the wing with 3 secs on the clock. You can’t have a faced paced offense with JJ
.I think that this team is finished because we have a moron coaching us. Nobody has thrived under this coach.

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Last posts of the day guys

1 of 2) Guys, what if we ran this all game? This is the SF pick and roll and size screening down/diving. Smith would not score at the PF much though. Only the PG,SF, and SG would.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_omi04meqA4

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Solomon Jones put a nasty dunk on Hibbert tonight. It should be on Sportcenter tonight.

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yo mother

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Yea, the best way to build this team is to use Jeff Teague and Al Horford as trade pieces since both are only interested im “me” basketball.

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Hey, cheer up HAWKSTERS, JJ is down, but ‘Duck’ is back. Hopefully, MARVIN will take his added role on the team by the teeth, become a board-crashing, consistant scoring machine. Covering for a MIA AL HORFORD and JOE JOHNSON will not be easy.

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Does anyone even monitor these posts? A few more long posts like that and it really is not even worth trying to look on the Hawks discussions.

Come on AJC!

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Imagine this line up when we started this whole rebuilding the Hawks thing in 2004.

What could have been based on where we picked in the draft:

C- Al Horford 3rd pick 2007
PF- Josh Smith 17th pick 2004
SF- Rudy Gay 5th pick 2006
SG- Andre Iguodala 6th pick 2004
PG- Chris Paul 2nd pick 2005

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Grandad, I once had the privilege of talking to a former Hawks beat writer who told me that the Hawks players actually get along VERY well off the court. That, he said, was one of the reasons their on-court meltdowns are so perplexing. Something happens when they step on the floor that is very different than when they are not playing. I used to think the same as you, they bottom line don;t like each other. But I was told differently. Maybe things have changed int he past 2-3 years.

But I do agree, they have been together for far too long. I waxed poetic about it for an entire summer. The Summer of Sameness.

Now that sounds familiar.

This is exactly why it was SO important to have a different coach in there. Mike Gearon bent to the will of the players, who wanted “sameness.” They wanted Larry Drew, they didn’t want anybody else.

Larry Drew is EXACTLY what this undisciplined group DID NOT need.

Players don’t have to like each other on the court. They have to trust each other, they have to be cohesive, what happens off the court isn’t what’s important. Who cares if Joe and Josh like to go to the same clubs? Who cares if they do the same chicks in the VIP room?

What matters is if they believe in each other on the court….When the game is on the line…When times are tough and they’re down by 20 points…When a key guy gets injured and you have to go without him for several games or even a season….

And these guys don’t do that, they don’t have that, and they don’t succeed.

For the upteenth time, 3 team captains is a retarded idea, and Josh as a team captain, despite his multiple talents, is also dumb. He’s just not captain material. I thought he might have a shot at growing into it. I was wrong in my opinion (more importantly, LD was wrong in HIS).

A veteran NBA head coach might have been able to pinpoint and deal with these problems, get these guys to believe in each other. LD has no hope of doing so, and that is so resoundingly clear that its embarrassing.

But that was only half of the solution. The other half was truly breaking up the core. Yeah, it meant/means gambling, taking a risk. But not taking that risk ensures a certainty – it will never get better with this group. Simple. Plain.

And Gearon doesn’t see it.

But….we can likely rule out any such moves. It’s a strike-shortened season. The perfect excuse for Hawks ownership to shirk their duties (along with their retired-on-duty GM) and leave things as they are. LD will get to finish the season out, and so will the core.

So the question remains – will real changes be made after this season? Hard to believe so with the current ownership. But I think we can safely assume that this squad, as currently constituted, and with the internal issues they have, will go no further than they did last season, if they get THAT far.

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As for what Joe Johnson had to say –

I think the rift between him and Josh Smith is growing on court. I realize that no decision is likely to be made about this anytime soon, but it’s going to come to a head. One of the trio of captains is not out there to add his own flavor or balance (Al Horford). The other two are saying and doing opposite things on the court.

It will all come to a head, and it won’t be pretty. LD is out of his depth.

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Imagine this line up when we started this whole rebuilding the Hawks thing in 2004.

C- Al Horford 3rd pick 2007
PF- Josh Smith 17th pick 2004
SF- Rudy Gay 5th pick 2006
SG- Andre Iguodala 6th pick 2004
PG- Chris Paul 2nd pick 2005

It’s a nice idea, but it’s not realistic.

If Billy Knight had had the brains to pick Chris Paul, we’d have been a better team, Josh Smith would be a better player than he is now, you can just about bank on that – (for what it’s worth…hindsight based speculation that it is).

Imagine THIS – a PG who is actually superstar talent, with leadership skills to boot. Maybe not top notch leadership skills, but better than average.

Add that to two of the best finishers in the game on the break (Smith and Iguodala, picked in the same year) and you have a REAL Highlight Factory.

Well, more wins means lower draft picks, which means we probably wouldn’t have had a shot at Rudy Gay or Al Horford. And guess what? We wouldn’t have needed either one of them.

If you told me that we could go back in time and pick CP3, but it would mean we couldn’t have Al Horford, I’d say let’s hop into the Time Machine RIGHT NOW.

Al is good when tough minded. But CP3 is a transcendent talent who makes other people good. He takes average and below average guys…and actually makes them good enough to get better contracts with other teams.

Give me CP3. But we have no time machine.

And I still mourn the loss of what could have been. Still.

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someone is off their thorazine.

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Big Ray

You are absolute right.
The players do not have to like one another.
Bill russell did not like Tom Heinsohn;
and it’s a safe bet, alot of the old Celts did not like Russell.
*[little known fact- russell did not practice]
*(he attended prac, but would sit in the bleachers and drink tea)
*{Russ was Iverson before Iverson was Iverson; r e, practice}
However, Russell -was- respected.
His teammates realized he was consumed with Winning.
Also realizing; *Red was resting / saving his legs for the games.
*Russ routinely played 46 min per.
*[sitting the last 2 min of the 1st qtr]

No the old Celts didn’t hang out.
Integration was in it’s infancy.
However:
The Celts loved; respected, and were loyal (trusted) to one another.

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The #Hawks just landed in NYC and had a convo with a very disappointed Marvin Williams, who while attending the funeral of a family friend, had to hear about his “reported” trade request. He vehemently denies ever asking for a trade and said, “you know that’s not me”.

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Jae, I’m guessing you’re correct. Looks like Broussard from ESPN doesn’t know what he’s talking about (again). I almost kind of wish Marvin did ask for a trade but, if we’ve learned anything about him, it’s that he doesn’t have an aggressive bone in his body. If he did have that kind of fire, then he might’ve made something out of himself in the NBA. Alas, he’s still the same mild-mannered, mostly invisible, bust of a player we all know and… well… like.

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“C- Al Horford 3rd pick 2007
PF- Josh Smith 17th pick 2004
SF- Rudy Gay 5th pick 2006
SG- Andre Iguodala 6th pick 2004
PG- Chris Paul 2nd pick 2005″

That lineup isn’t realistic, but CP3-Joe Johnson-Rudy Gay-Josh Smith-Al Jefferson could very realistically have happened. They passed up Jefferson for Childress, CP3 for Marvin, and Gay for the Foreclosure. The Hornets didn’t make the playoffs in CP3’s rookie season, and the Hawks likely would have missed the playoffs in his rookie season as well. They may or may not have gotten a top 8 pick in 2006, but if they did, they could have picked Gay. In my opinion this is probably the best team the Hawks could have realistically put together if they had drafted properly.

Rondo-Joe Johnson-Granger-Josh Smith-Al Jefferson could have also realistically happened, if the Hawks used the #2 pick on Granger in 2005 (would have been considered a major reach at the time) and then the lottery pick in 2006 on Rondo.

An added benefit of drafting Jefferson in 2004 would have been that the Celtics’ trade for KG wouldn’t have likely happened, and the Hawks’ ascent to the top of the conference would have probably happened more quickly.

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Oh yeah, they probably could have also done Rondo-Joe Johnson-Deng/Iguodala-Josh Smith-Andrew Bynum, if they had the foresight to pick Bynum #2 overall in 2005 instead of Marvin. That’s probably the best possible team, now that I think about it.

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The only problem there, of course, is that Rondo, Bynum, and Josh were all pretty raw when they came in the league, and Rondo and Bynum have benefited from great coaching to get themselves where they are today. Who knows how they would have developed under Woody.

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LD is terrible….it’s proven most games. The guy can’t manage the team AT ALL. This includes rotations, roles, units etc. Just all over the shop.

But also our offence is so shambolic as to be embarrassing. So many times Teague brings the ball up then flips a soft pass to Joe or Josh on the wing….this team barely runs plays! LD is the reason.

The downward spiral continues at an even greater pace then I could imagine. tMac jack of the rotations, marvin wants out, Josh wants everybody ELSE to pass more, Joe wants everybody ELSE to not worry about shots etc…..the ship is sinking AND dudes are lighting fires on the decks….this team is getting what it deserves. unfortunately the fans dont deserve it.

And to sum up Josh …..against the Bulls in the fourth he received the ball at the top of the key, sighted a WIDE OPEN Pargo spotted at the 3 point line then proceeded to jack up a long 2 point brick. This is not dumb, this is selfish….this is Josh Smith!

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When Is somebody gonna get F#@&$#+ Mad?

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I mean….I never see or hear any passion or anger with these Atlanta sports teams….!

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“League would frown heavily on Johnson playing first game after break if he skips”

How f-ing stupid is that? All-Star game more important than the Hawks having a player healthy that the organization has $120m invested in? W T F???

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Blake, do you mean anger and passion from the players or the fans?

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I don’t know about that, Buddy. I doubt Woodson feels that LD set him up or anything nefarious like that. In fact, I would guess that Woody knew he was out the door regardless and was probably happy that Drew finally got a shot to be the head guy. Remember that both those guys go a long way back, and Woodson knows what it’s like to be an assistant trying to get a head coaching gig. It’s not like Drew was in demand or anything, or else he wouldn’t have signed the smallest contract of any head guy in the league. While all those guys network like crazy, those two worked together for 5 years (at least), so it ain’t like they need to talk on the regular in order to maintain their relationship.

Besides, it’s just bad form to say “yeah, me and Woody talk all the time” when they’re basically competing against one another in the East. I doubt there’s any “there” there.

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Wow, Buddy, you mos def got the conspiratorial thang working tonight, huh? Like the Drew-Woody thing, I think you might be overthinking the political dynamic just a bit with regard to Dictator David. I definitely agree that Hollinger was Stern’s message boy, but I”m guessing it has more to do with Dear Leader Stern wanting to send a message to the All-Star players that they better play in the All-Star game if selected instead of claiming to have an injury just so they can get a long weekend off… especially in a year like this one where every player is trying to find every opportunity to rest they can get. The last think Stern wants is a bunch of superstars sitting on the All-Star bench in street clothes clowning around while a bunch of subs who really don’t deserve to be there are playing.

Of course, we could both be wrong and it’s just Stern being the jerk-off we all realized he was during the lockout.

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Naw Grandad, I was actually talking about another dude 3 pages ago. But I realize that there are a couple of dudes on here who do go on some serious, not to mention pointless, diatribes directed at nobody in particular… but it seems like the same person using multiple names cuz the writing is very similar (not saying a whole lot, but using a whole lot of words to do so).

You’re carrying on a conversation, so by all means have at it! It’s just the knuckleheads that are the same kinda people who like to hear the sound of their own voice… it’s just they’re typing away instead as though they’re the one writing the column. Didn’t mean you (unless you’re the fool using several names).

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“Nonfeasantly speaking you could be Josh’s personal stat keeper;
that would explain all ?
No that would be presumptive on my part, sinking me to a level
known only to malfeasant stat keepers and yourself.”

No, Grandad, what is presumptive is basing your opinion on your own non-fact-based conjecture rather than on the official stats recorded and reported by the league.

I base my opinions on facts. I see that Josh commits 2.5 turnovers per game as reported by the official NBA stat keepers and move on.

You are basing your opinions on your opinions. Your thought process starts with the opinion that Josh commits a lot of turnovers, then progresses to see that the official stats don’t credit him with that many turnovers, and instead of revising your opinion accordingly to conform with the facts, you convince yourself that the facts themselves are flawed and your opinion is correct.

The good news is, you are not alone by a long shot. In fact an entire study has been done to show that many people, when confronted with facts that contradict their beliefs, dig in even more strongly with the beliefs that they already held.

However, individuals who receive unwelcome information may not simply resist challenges to their views. Instead, they may come to support their original opinion even more strongly—what we call a “backfire effect.”5 For instance, in a dynamic process tracing experiment, Redlawsk (2002) finds that subjects who were not given a memory-based processing prime came to view their preferred candidate in a mock election more positively after being exposed to negative information about the candidate.6 Similarly, Republicans who were provided with a frame that attributed prevalence of Type 2 diabetes to neighborhood conditions were less likely to support public health measures targeting social determinants of health than their counterparts in a control condition (Gollust et al. 2009). What produces such an effect? While Lebo and Cassino interpret backfire effect-type results as resulting from individuals “simply view[ing] unfavorable information as actually being in agreement with their existing beliefs” (2007, p. 723), we follow Lodge and Taber (2000) and Redlawsk (2002) in interpreting backfire effects as a possible result of the process by which people counterargue preference-incongruent information and bolster their preexisting views. If people counterargue unwelcome information vigorously enough, they may end up with “more attitudinally congruent information in mind than before the debate” (Lodge and Taber 2000, p. 209), which in turn leads them to report opinions that are more extreme than they otherwise would have had.

Granted, they were talking about politics, not turnovers, but the basic principle still stands.

I know that NBA stat keepers are not perfect, but your allegation that there is some kind of ongoing pattern of crediting Josh with fewer turnovers than he actually earns suggests that this results from more than just ineptitude or ignorance, but rather from some sort of conspiracy to suppress his number of turnovers. What it more likely suggests is that contrary to your belief, you do not quite know what is and is not a durn turnover, at least as defined by the NBA rulebook.

In any case, there are plenty of valid reasons to criticize Josh without having to invent extra ones.

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we will win witout iso joe, he is no leader and i wish we can cut his minutes

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“In fact, I would guess that Woody knew he was out the door regardless and was probably happy that Drew finally got a shot to be the head guy.” – IceColdATLien

If that was the case, Woodson probably would have granted an interview to the AJC to say how happy he is for his protege to be having some success. Let’s watch and see if Drew and Woodson shake hands before or after the game… I’m curious. LD is the sum of Woodson’s coaching tree.

“The last thing Stern wants is a bunch of superstars sitting on the All-Star bench in street clothes clowning around while a bunch of subs who really don’t deserve to be there are playing.” – IceColdATLien

You’ve got several types of players in the All-Star game. You’ve got established superstars like LeBron/Wade/Kobe who will use any marketing opportunity to elevate brand awareness. Then you’ve got guys like Hibbits and Iguodala who are making their first All-Star appearance. The above player types will not miss the All-Star game for anything other than a serious injury.

Joe Johnson doesn’t fit either type. He’s been there, done that, and he doesn’t have a “brand.” Is Stern concerned that ratings for the All-Star game are going to plummet if Joe F’ing Johnson doesn’t play? Is there a less inspiring player in the All-Star game than Joe Johnson? No. This is all about sending a message to Joe to show up and play his 5 minutes so Stern doesn’t have to make Smoove an All-Star.

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“I think there are too many crappy team in the East right now to keep the Hawks out of the playoffs.” – Big Ray

Have you looked at the schedule for the second half of the season? There’s not another stretch like this against teams above .500. After the All-Star break the schedule gets a lot more favorable, and if the Hawks can keep beating bad teams they will be in contention for a top-5 playoff seeding (which is required if they want to make the second round again… a 6-8 seed would mean playing Chicago, Miami or the 76ers in the first round, an almost certain ticket to a first round exit).

I hoped the Hawks could go about .500 for the month of February. The team came into this month 8 games above .500. A .500 record for this month would mean that Hawks came through the hardest part of their schedule and still maintained 8 games above .500. That didn’t happen but I believe the Hawks will climb in the standings from here.

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“Your allegation that there is some kind of ongoing pattern of crediting Josh with fewer turnovers than he actually earns suggests that this results from more than just ineptitude or ignorance, but rather from some sort of conspiracy to suppress his number of turnovers.” – Najeh

I’m on a conspiracy roll tonight. You do know that there is a precedent for this, right Najeh? I’m not saying I agree with G-Dad on this but I doubt you will dispute that in the playoffs, refs call Dwight Howard for approximately one foul for every two fouls he commits. He’s the only player in the NBA who can commit 8 fouls without fouling out.

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HINRICH, ZAZA, 1ST FOR KAMAN

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“Woodson refused an interview request by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution about the game.” Chris Vivlamore

For old time sake

FIRE WOODY

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IceColdATLien

My apologies for getting back to you so late.

Thanks for the clarification

No, I’m not him; to whom you referred.

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LD is Bob Weiss all over again. The Hawks fired Fratello and brought in Bob Weiss because Dominique didn’t want to play defense. They tried to placate their superstar and the results speak for themselves.

After Mike Woodson spectacularly failed as Hawks coach, the organization had the opportunity to hire Dwayne Casey (who would be credited as the defensive architect of Dallas’ championship). Casey would have brought a whole new regime to Atlanta. He would have been very demanding as he sought to prove that he was a good hire and earn the respect of the organization, players and fans.

Instead, the ASG hired from within the guy the players wanted. They attempted to placate the players, hoping that would lead to success on the court. Didn’t these owners pay attention to how far Dan Gilbert’s placating of LeBron James got him? And now the Hawks organization is in the same situation. The “closest thing to LeBron” is an unrestricted free agent in a season and a half. Did the coddling of the Cav’s organization make LeBron want to stay? No, it made him lose respect for the organization and seek out a situation where he could win a championship.

As soon as this season is over we’ll be in the same position Orlando fans have been in since last season… knowing that our team’s best player is headed somewhere else and we have nothing to look forward to but the NBA draft lottery.

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The ASG should not have hired the coach the players wanted, they should have hired the coach that was most qualified to develop their $250m investment in player personnel. Was LD that person? No, he had zero qualifications… had never held an NBA head coaching position before. How has he done in developing the Hawks players? He left Teague rotting on the bench, talked about moving Josh Powell ahead of Zaza in the rotation last year, and this year he’s leaving Ivan on the bench when the Hawks usually out-rebound opponents when Ivan plays at least 20 minutes.

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@Big Ray

“But….we can likely rule out any such moves. It’s a strike-shortened season” – Big Ray

This [regular season] is an NBA “lockout-shortened” season. The NBA players were locked out by the owners at the start of this regular season; they [the players] did not go on strike.

BTW, Jamal Crawford, in his second start at the point guard position for the Blazers as a result of Raymond Felton’s recent demotion, scored 20 points, tallied eight assists and grabbed four rebounds while just committing one turnover in a Blazers’ 40-point rout over the Spurs. The Blazers defeated the Spurs 137-97 and, yes, for you naysayers, detractors, critics and cynics, the Spurs’ big three [Tony Parker, E[manu]el Ginobili and Tim Duncan] did not play in the aforementioned game. Jamal Crawford had an extremely efficient shooting performance by making six of his eight shots from the field which included [Crawford] making five of seven three point shots and all three of his free throw attempts. Jamal Crawford, while only having started two games this season, is currently averaging 14.2ppg and is second in scoring on a [Blazers] team that features six double figure [digit] scorers.

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Lin is going to murder Teague on the p&r. *yawn*~

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Ra’mon,

By the way, Joe’s numbers for the month are 14 Points, 2.7 Reb, 3.9 Assists shooting 39% in 36 minutes per game. Josh may not be the best shooter. But some games its hard to tell if a Josh jumper is worse than a jumper by Joe..

I didn’t realize JJ’s numbers are that bad. I thought when you pay a guy $20 mil, it was expected that he would elevate his game (or his team) against tougher teams. But with JJ, that aint happening.

I assume his injury has slowed him down the last few games, but I dont think he was doing much better earlier in the season when we played good teams.

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Najeh, Big Ray,

I think the most realistic team would have been CP3-JJ-Chills-Josh-Zaza. That backcourt would have been awesome. Of course there is always the big unknown as to whether or not CP3 would become CP3 playing for Woody.

As far as coaching, I feel bad for Josh. He did not go to college, and his only NBA coaches have been Woody and LD. He needs a strong coach to get through to him, and get him playing the right way.

Gearon and Sund like to use the Detroit “no superstars but still won a championship” model as what the Hawks are trying to emulate.

But 2 things they fail to acknowledge. 1) That is the exception, not the rule and 2) That team was coached by a HOF guy in Larry Brown, who got the players (including Rasheed) to “play the right way”.

Imagine if that Detroit team was being coached by Michael Curry? Results would have been terrible.

But ASG and Rick think LD is the guy who can help these players maximize their potential, despite being on Woody’s staff for 5 years, with very little impact attributed to him?

As for summer of sameness, I expect the same thing this offseason. With AL (and now JJ injured), it allows Rick and Gearon to use injuries as an excuse if the Hawks lose in the first round, and ultimately, Rick and LD will get one more year.

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” We’ve played a lot of games. Guys are probably a little banged up, a little tired. With all that, the trust wanes a little bit. We’ll get it back. All it takes is a good spirited win.””
-Jerry Stackhouse
—————————————————————————————————-

He sounds like LD.If this is who LD has in the locker room,being the vet whom the players are supposed to be listening to then we are in trouble.
That does not sound like a guy who would get in your face like a MJ,Magic,Bird or even Metta World Peace.
Thats what we need..And we still don’t have..

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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/sports/basketball/next-up-for-jeremy-lin-hawks-emerging-point-guard.html?_r=1&ref=sports

“It’s difficult running a team,” Teague said. “You got so many different personalities out there. But that comes with the job. I’ve always been a point guard. I’ve always tried to find ways to relate to everybody. It definitely is tough when you got veterans used to getting the ball a certain number of times, and you hear about when they don’t. But I’m getting better at that.”

hmmmm. who’s the only person that’s criticized JT for not distributing? was it mere coincidence that since that game when josh critized JT for not creating for his teammates that he has all but disappeared?

Indianapolis powerhouse Pike High School and Wake Forest, Teague has a base of hoop smarts that is augmented every day in practice by the Hawks assistant coach Nick Van Exel, who played 13 years in the league at point guard

aj: there’s your nick van exel shout out. heh

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I’m sure Joe’s knee has nothing to do with his poor performance of late. He clearly is just disinterested in doing anything else other than count his money. Seriously, I just don’t get how you read that a guy is missing a game TODAY and not think to yourself “hmm, I wonder if he has been hurting for more than a single day?”

Abe, thanks. I think Teague’s quotes suggest what several of us have been saying for weeks but diehard fans of Josh prefer to ignore.

Y’all do know that there are around 20 other teams that can put together a nice little “would have; should have” list as well. And many of those teams still haven’t seen the 2nd round. Again, does anyone ever think “how is it that I think 98% of everything this team does is wrong, yet they tend to be a top 8 team by ther time the playoffs end?” Is it that maybe, your expectations are out-of-whack relative to reality? Of course not.

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jeff teague is the x factor. when he is agressive he makes the hawks one of the better teams in the east. when he goes into his shell they quickly morph into one of the worst teams in the entire league. some point to LD as the cause of teague’s timidness. they seem to quickly forget about his lackluster play in the summer leagues. he went back there as a 2nd year player and hardly dominated. LD might have a hand in Teague’s inconsistent play but it more or less rests on Teague himself. playing in the nba is no easy feat. trying to bring “it” every night is very difficult. it’s why the best are the best. their level of consistency is rare. teague needs to realize he is the team’s engine and as he goes so goes the team.

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to buddy the man who keeps us relevant while we sleep, couldnt agree more to your 1:17, 1:23 and 1:29 posts. it is why i cant take some of this game real. still think wwf comes into play or like watching heavy weight fights in the 60’s and 70’s. there is too much going on behind the scenes to take it very seriously.

the 1:03 post makes me wonder if most of the draft is luck. what would we be if we had not gotten the lucky three ball for instance to be in a position to draft al. now we got to wonder if noah would have been better since he was considered strongly and would have fit our needs better that being a motor in the middle without fear and no concern for his body or points accrued.

well buddy as i read further you were on point this am all the way through. cudos. i am quiet to so many of you that say what is on my mind. i bow to the many here and revel on in the dysfunction. i think after the portland game i said let the dysfunction begin and it swirls. a win or two would help but dont see many for the rest of the month. we are stuck on three and i was hoping for 4 at worst which will leave us think at 3 to four games above .500.

buddy, i will disagree on something that just as many of our minions were coming into february suggesting 9 and 10 wins for the month. you are waaaay to optimistic about march. it isnt the teams but how it is set up. we have bak to backs, one back to back to back and a road trip of 6 in 9 days. it isnt set up like it was to start the season. right now we are playing for a six seed at best. i mentioned earlier we are very lucky that we are in a league with 5 to 6 terrible teams but even they might start to gel and cause some problems that werent there earlier in the season.

nice work guys while we were supine. ill go quiet again and continue to read assuming o’b will say something close to what i had on my mind anyway. cudos to all.

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Larry and Woody WERE friends for thirty years. When you become a head coach you understand FIRST you are hired to get fired… That is understood. SECOND your first assistant is someone you trust and care for… so when that day comes when you are releashed or fired you hope the person that has been sitting so close to you will have the opportunity to become the head man. Being a head coach, on any level, eventually comes to an end for everyone regardless of how well/bad you have done, or champoinships you have won— but the real prize are friendships/loyality that last a life-time. Larry and Woody know what the split was all about!!!

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I’m glad MC and C-Viv got those comments removed.

doc,

With Lin having so many turnovers early on, D’Antoni let him play through it (although he is still turning it over too much). I think Woody would have pulled him.

AJ,

On Portland blogs, they are probably playing “what if we drafted MJ instead of Sam Bowie” and “What if we drafted KD instead of Oden” games lol.

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ajc tweet (not sure if its from C-Viv);

•Remember when Ivan Johnson was major part of #Hawks rotation? .

Despite the fact that Hawks have been getting outrebounded, we havent seen much of Ivan or Dampier. I wish somebody would ask LD what’s his reasoning.

Oh!No;

The irony is BK and Woody were very good friends for years, and BK hired Woody. But when things went sour and he wanted to fire Woody, ASG wouldnt let him. Similarly, Woody and LD were friends, but when LD got hired, he said he would give Woody suggestions, but Woody never used them.

Just more examples of the rift in the organization.

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Has nothing to do with the job! O it has something to do with the people in your life you call true friends. There are a lot of missing parts to the story I am sure we will never know BUT! Expectations of friendship can be defined only by the person maybe Woody thought it was much more than it really was! Thnxs.. O for you response…

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I remember when Horford went down JJ,J.Smith,Marvin,Rad,Pargo,T-Mac all stepped up their games. Forward to today and only J.Smith is playing good. Why did all the others quit giving effort ? Especially Joe Johnson. Pathetic.

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How do you expect a player that plays 4 minutes a game all year to all of a sudden play 30 minutes with success ? – baller4life

that argument went out the lindow when lin appeared on the scene.

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Hawks might make it out of the second round if they play Orlando or Indiana but other than that its one and done. Just keeping it real.

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But if Joe has been playing injured for so long, why has LD increased his minutes? Or why wasn’t LD benching JJ on the back side of back to back games on the road trip? If Joe’s performance is so drastically declined when injured, is it not better for the TEAM for him to not play? So should it have been Joe who’s been getting minutes reduced instead of McGrady or Teague?

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o’b on the tweet, my lineup against the bulls with marvin out would have been to slide josh to three and put ivan at pf to combat their size. josh always gets beat on by boozer by at least once a game just lining himself up butt first to plow into josh. it was flat stupid to go small by putting in green and making jj a sf who does not like rebounding or contact sports. in fact i would see if that would work more often and use marvin off the bench so he could have more of a “star” role. ahem against lesser talent. remember when it was thought out loud that marvin was a queen in cavs uni neutralizer? lol!

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Join us tonight on Blogtalkradio at 9:00 PM as we discuss the Hawks and other NBA action. Call in and tell us what you think.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cpstylin/2012/02/23/just-basketball

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a little mre to the article by nytimes on teague:

Teague’s younger brother, Marcus, is a freshman guard at Kentucky, part of the group of highly recruited players who have the team ranked No. 1. The brothers chat often, with Jeff talking Marcus through the perils of having his every dribble scrutinized by the team’s rabid fans.

“Every time I feel like I have pressure on me, I talk to Marcus,” Teague said, “and he reminds me what playing under pressure is really all about.”

oh my! wildcat fans are tougher than us. gearon where are you? did you read what fan pressure and performance is all about bro? their standard is excellence gearon not entertainment i guess. now where is the line we want to be elite from sund et al? it went out with the hiring of LD i think, did it not?

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“now where is the line we want to be elite from sund et al? it went out with the hiring of LD i think, did it not?”

LOL doc, even if Sund WERE to give lip service to “wanting to be elite” their actions prove otherwise over and over. And nowhere more obvious than that hire.

Sund’s idea of “elite” is making the 2nd rd. three years in a row, 2-12 record be damned.

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[...] one agenda, one goal and that is winning the basketball game. Not who scores what, who does what. I think we are too self conscious about [who is] scoring and the little things that really don’t m… If we don’t do that, we are going to continue to struggle to win games. I think we have to put a [...]

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