Updated: Johnson on Hawks’ woes: ‘We are too self conscious about [who is] scoring’
Vivlamore reporting from New York City where the Hawks play the Knicks on Wednesday – their first-hand look at the Linsanity that has caused such a stir in this city.
See update on Joe Johnson injury below.
Twice in a span of eight days, the Hawks fell flat on a national television stage. They lost to the Heat 107-87 at home with ESPN in the house. Monday they fell to the Bulls 90-79 on a Presidents Day telecast by the network. Before both games, coach Larry Drew said, in effect, if his team couldn’t get motivated for such a contest there is something wrong.
Judging by the results, something is wrong.
Following Monday’s game, I spoke with Joe Johnson about why the team has a motivation problem and plays with a lack of energy at times. Here are his comments:
“When I look at our team, we are a very talented team, but I [don’t know] whether guys know their roles or not,” Johnson said. “We know the right thing to do. A lot of times we don’t come out and do it. I just think we should all have one agenda, one goal and that is winning the basketball game. Not who scores what, who does what. I think we are too self conscious about [who is] scoring and the little things that really don’t matter. For us to win the game we have to put all of that to the side and help one another on both ends of the floor. If we don’t do that, we are going to continue to struggle to win games. I think we have to put a lot into perspective about how good we want to be as a team or what direction we are headed in or what are our goals. Right now I’m not sure if everyone has that one common goal – and that is winning.
“We’ve had spurts where we’ve played great together. The ball movement has been great. We’ve had times when we haven’t been so great. Times we haven’t been so great, we have struggled as a team. I know it’s noticeable. I think we just have to start getting the ball into the right people’s hands who make plays, who score the basketball and make others better. That’s it.”
I also sought the veteran’s perspective from Jerry Stackhouse on the issues facing the Hawks, who have lost seven of their past 10 games.
“You are going to have those stretches during the course of the season when it seems like you are struggling a little bit, you don’t know when you are ever going to win again,” Stackhouse said. “You have them a couple times. We are going through one right now. It’s not like we are laying down until the [all-star] break, but I think the break will be good for us. We’ve played a lot of games. Guys are probably a little banged up, a little tired. With all that, the trust wanes a little bit. We’ll get it back. All it takes is a good spirited win.”
UPDATE: Johnson, did not travel with the team to New York today and is returning to Atlanta for an MRI on his left knee. He will not play in the next two games (at New York Wednesday, vs. Orlando Thursday). Johnson has been hampered by tendinitis in his left knee and it caused him to leave Monday’s game in the third quarter and not return.
The Hawks expect to get Marvin Williams back. The forward left the team Sunday due to a death in the family and missed Monday’s game.
I will update from tomorrow morning’s shoot-around.
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308 comments Add your comment
Shoot the messenger
February 21st, 2012
9:26 pm
Yea, the best way to build this team is to use Jeff Teague and Al Horford as trade pieces since both are only interested im “me” basketball.
Shoot the messenger
February 21st, 2012
9:27 pm
*in me
richbrave
February 21st, 2012
10:13 pm
Hey, cheer up HAWKSTERS, JJ is down, but ‘Duck’ is back. Hopefully, MARVIN will take his added role on the team by the teeth, become a board-crashing, consistant scoring machine. Covering for a MIA AL HORFORD and JOE JOHNSON will not be easy.
richbrave
February 21st, 2012
10:19 pm
I’ll come back another time to diss….cuss hoops.
Dawg
February 21st, 2012
10:19 pm
Does anyone even monitor these posts? A few more long posts like that and it really is not even worth trying to look on the Hawks discussions.
Come on AJC!
TMACfan
February 21st, 2012
10:29 pm
#FreeMC
Imagine...
February 21st, 2012
10:35 pm
Imagine this line up when we started this whole rebuilding the Hawks thing in 2004.
What could have been based on where we picked in the draft:
C- Al Horford 3rd pick 2007
PF- Josh Smith 17th pick 2004
SF- Rudy Gay 5th pick 2006
SG- Andre Iguodala 6th pick 2004
PG- Chris Paul 2nd pick 2005
BJones_40
February 21st, 2012
10:46 pm
Imagine,
Pretty good lineup, heh? lol
Big Ray
February 21st, 2012
11:07 pm
Grandad, I once had the privilege of talking to a former Hawks beat writer who told me that the Hawks players actually get along VERY well off the court. That, he said, was one of the reasons their on-court meltdowns are so perplexing. Something happens when they step on the floor that is very different than when they are not playing. I used to think the same as you, they bottom line don;t like each other. But I was told differently. Maybe things have changed int he past 2-3 years.
But I do agree, they have been together for far too long. I waxed poetic about it for an entire summer. The Summer of Sameness.
Now that sounds familiar.
This is exactly why it was SO important to have a different coach in there. Mike Gearon bent to the will of the players, who wanted “sameness.” They wanted Larry Drew, they didn’t want anybody else.
Larry Drew is EXACTLY what this undisciplined group DID NOT need.
Players don’t have to like each other on the court. They have to trust each other, they have to be cohesive, what happens off the court isn’t what’s important. Who cares if Joe and Josh like to go to the same clubs? Who cares if they do the same chicks in the VIP room?
What matters is if they believe in each other on the court….When the game is on the line…When times are tough and they’re down by 20 points…When a key guy gets injured and you have to go without him for several games or even a season….
And these guys don’t do that, they don’t have that, and they don’t succeed.
For the upteenth time, 3 team captains is a retarded idea, and Josh as a team captain, despite his multiple talents, is also dumb. He’s just not captain material. I thought he might have a shot at growing into it. I was wrong in my opinion (more importantly, LD was wrong in HIS).
A veteran NBA head coach might have been able to pinpoint and deal with these problems, get these guys to believe in each other. LD has no hope of doing so, and that is so resoundingly clear that its embarrassing.
But that was only half of the solution. The other half was truly breaking up the core. Yeah, it meant/means gambling, taking a risk. But not taking that risk ensures a certainty – it will never get better with this group. Simple. Plain.
And Gearon doesn’t see it.
But….we can likely rule out any such moves. It’s a strike-shortened season. The perfect excuse for Hawks ownership to shirk their duties (along with their retired-on-duty GM) and leave things as they are. LD will get to finish the season out, and so will the core.
So the question remains – will real changes be made after this season? Hard to believe so with the current ownership. But I think we can safely assume that this squad, as currently constituted, and with the internal issues they have, will go no further than they did last season, if they get THAT far.
Melvin
February 21st, 2012
11:07 pm
Crawford 5-5 for 18pts in the 1st half. Blazers up 23 over the Spurs at halftime.
Big Ray
February 21st, 2012
11:17 pm
As for what Joe Johnson had to say –
I think the rift between him and Josh Smith is growing on court. I realize that no decision is likely to be made about this anytime soon, but it’s going to come to a head. One of the trio of captains is not out there to add his own flavor or balance (Al Horford). The other two are saying and doing opposite things on the court.
It will all come to a head, and it won’t be pretty. LD is out of his depth.
doc
February 21st, 2012
11:26 pm
yes najeh to the out of character on marvin. a part of me is saying, yes, finally marvin is saying something like, i want to be bigger than what i have fallen into being. yes, i have more and am ready. for so many the first reaction was to slam him rather than say show up dude and make someone want you.
no, it is now marvin quoted, “you know that isnt me”. yup, sadly, we do.
Big Ray
February 21st, 2012
11:27 pm
Imagine this line up when we started this whole rebuilding the Hawks thing in 2004.
What could have been based on where we picked in the draft:
C- Al Horford 3rd pick 2007
PF- Josh Smith 17th pick 2004
SF- Rudy Gay 5th pick 2006
SG- Andre Iguodala 6th pick 2004
PG- Chris Paul 2nd pick 2005
It’s a nice idea, but it’s not realistic.
If Billy Knight had had the brains to pick Chris Paul, we’d have been a better team, Josh Smith would be a better player than he is now, you can just about bank on that – (for what it’s worth…hindsight based speculation that it is).
Imagine THIS – a PG who is actually superstar talent, with leadership skills to boot. Maybe not top notch leadership skills, but better than average.
Add that to two of the best finishers in the game on the break (Smith and Iguodala, picked in the same year) and you have a REAL Highlight Factory.
Well, more wins means lower draft picks, which means we probably wouldn’t have had a shot at Rudy Gay or Al Horford. And guess what? We wouldn’t have needed either one of them.
If you told me that we could go back in time and pick CP3, but it would mean we couldn’t have Al Horford, I’d say let’s hop into the Time Machine RIGHT NOW.
Al is good when tough minded. But CP3 is a transcendent talent who makes other people good. He takes average and below average guys…and actually makes them good enough to get better contracts with other teams.
Give me CP3. But we have no time machine.
And I still mourn the loss of what could have been. Still.
doc
February 21st, 2012
11:28 pm
big ray, agree, jj was talking to someone and it aint teague, marvin or zaza. it certainly isnt dampier.
doc
February 21st, 2012
11:36 pm
someone is off their thorazine.
High-sider
February 21st, 2012
11:37 pm
Message to Joe Johnson:
I think the reason the Hawks are self-conscious about who is scoring is because over the past two games the [Hawks] team has had trouble [scoring].
Grandad
February 22nd, 2012
12:02 am
Big Ray
You are absolute right.
The players do not have to like one another.
Bill russell did not like Tom Heinsohn;
and it’s a safe bet, alot of the old Celts did not like Russell.
*[little known fact- russell did not practice]
*(he attended prac, but would sit in the bleachers and drink tea)
*{Russ was Iverson before Iverson was Iverson; r e, practice}
However, Russell -was- respected.
His teammates realized he was consumed with Winning.
Also realizing; *Red was resting / saving his legs for the games.
*Russ routinely played 46 min per.
*[sitting the last 2 min of the 1st qtr]
No the old Celts didn’t hang out.
Integration was in it’s infancy.
However:
The Celts loved; respected, and were loyal (trusted) to one another.
Grandad
February 22nd, 2012
12:11 am
-sorry accidentally submitted before I was finished-
These Hawks have none of the * respect *
that the ol celts felt for one another.
That’s what is noticable to me.
Neither do they respect the game.
Nor do they seem to have pride in their work, craft, or profession.
_____________________________________________________
Big Ray:
I’m glad you noticed;
Josh -v- Joe.
_____________________________________________________
JaeEvolution
February 22nd, 2012
12:17 am
The #Hawks just landed in NYC and had a convo with a very disappointed Marvin Williams, who while attending the funeral of a family friend, had to hear about his “reported” trade request. He vehemently denies ever asking for a trade and said, “you know that’s not me”.
NUNNA!!
February 22nd, 2012
12:19 am
Im gonna start calling myself,THE TRUTH!!
I told yall for the past 3 weeks that LD has lost this team and they play for themselves and could care less on what his input is..
He is a nice person and would make a decent college coach,but for the NBA and the Atlanta Hawks,heck naw..
Remember the press conference after LD was promoted to coach this team?
How he even said something to the effect when looking at Smoove during the conference about,”shooting ill advised jump shots”..
We all,me included,liked the fact that he brought it out that it would stop..
But you know what? It has not!!
And it will only stop when we get a coach in here who will demand players play to and beyond their game and know their position’s do’s and don’ts to move forward and win some games..
We all jump on Josh..And rightfully we should.
Last year and this year he thinks he is the point guard 98% of the time.
Last year it was he and JCrawford who did it the most..
I fault the coach a little for letting that happen..
I fault JT0 a lot for letting it happen..
Sometimes a coach,a boss or someone in charge of a group of individuals who are working as a team needs to say nothing and let the leaders of the team lead,give directions and demand respect from other players or members of their group..
We dont’ need Joe saying jack in the paper about whats going on..And what they need to do..
He needs to be the leader and say,”hey smooth,Jeff is our point,rebound,run up the court and fill the lane..If you get the ball and score thats great,if you get the rebound and put it in the hoop thats better,but let our PG be our PG”..
Plain and simple..
Then he needs to tell JT0,”attack,attack,attack on both sides of the floor..You will have Kirk,Prago and myself to spill you if you get winded,ok?”..
Then he needs to look at Marvin and Josh and say,”Marvin,you and Josh should get first looks,we need to be an inside first scoring team.Drive to the hoop,get fouls,get rebounds..If i have to go into the post,Marvin you stop out and become our 3 point shot and Smoove you creep in the lane for either a slash pass inside or a rebound after a missed shot”..
“And as for myself Joe Johnson,i will always look for my position to score and i will now become and catch and shoot player and no longer hold the ball for over 3 seconds and look forward to swing the ball around to you Jeff to either drive the lane and dish or find the open player”..
They don’t need LD to tell them that..But,that is not what we have in that locker room..
P.S. We thought that was supposed to be handled by our player/coach Stackhouse..
He needs to fired along with LD..
And,remember you heard it here first folks but don’t be suprised if the ASG are thinking what im thinking and fire LD around the all star break..
WHAT??
It could happen..
IceColdATLien
February 22nd, 2012
12:23 am
Jae, I’m guessing you’re correct. Looks like Broussard from ESPN doesn’t know what he’s talking about (again). I almost kind of wish Marvin did ask for a trade but, if we’ve learned anything about him, it’s that he doesn’t have an aggressive bone in his body. If he did have that kind of fire, then he might’ve made something out of himself in the NBA. Alas, he’s still the same mild-mannered, mostly invisible, bust of a player we all know and… well… like.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 22nd, 2012
12:26 am
You can tell who has a job and who sits on his azz all day on this blog.
LD has to go. Running the same ole plays and making no adjustments. Just like his mentor Mike Woodson.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 22nd, 2012
12:28 am
“C- Al Horford 3rd pick 2007
PF- Josh Smith 17th pick 2004
SF- Rudy Gay 5th pick 2006
SG- Andre Iguodala 6th pick 2004
PG- Chris Paul 2nd pick 2005″
That lineup isn’t realistic, but CP3-Joe Johnson-Rudy Gay-Josh Smith-Al Jefferson could very realistically have happened. They passed up Jefferson for Childress, CP3 for Marvin, and Gay for the Foreclosure. The Hornets didn’t make the playoffs in CP3’s rookie season, and the Hawks likely would have missed the playoffs in his rookie season as well. They may or may not have gotten a top 8 pick in 2006, but if they did, they could have picked Gay. In my opinion this is probably the best team the Hawks could have realistically put together if they had drafted properly.
Rondo-Joe Johnson-Granger-Josh Smith-Al Jefferson could have also realistically happened, if the Hawks used the #2 pick on Granger in 2005 (would have been considered a major reach at the time) and then the lottery pick in 2006 on Rondo.
An added benefit of drafting Jefferson in 2004 would have been that the Celtics’ trade for KG wouldn’t have likely happened, and the Hawks’ ascent to the top of the conference would have probably happened more quickly.
IceColdATLien
February 22nd, 2012
12:29 am
People whose comments on a blog are actually longer than the blog itself kinda drive me crazy. Nobody wants to read a 20-paragraph comment, so stop acting like you’re the one writing a column… it’s sorta like a certain PF alley-oop catchin’ dunker who thinks he’s a bonified mid-long range jump shooter: just another dummy who doesn’t realize who he is and tries to do a lot more than ANYONE wants him to do.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 22nd, 2012
12:30 am
Oh yeah, they probably could have also done Rondo-Joe Johnson-Deng/Iguodala-Josh Smith-Andrew Bynum, if they had the foresight to pick Bynum #2 overall in 2005 instead of Marvin. That’s probably the best possible team, now that I think about it.
IceColdATLien
February 22nd, 2012
12:31 am
Najeh, don’t forget that we actually drafted Pau Gasol and traded his draft rights 5 seconds later.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 22nd, 2012
12:31 am
The only problem there, of course, is that Rondo, Bynum, and Josh were all pretty raw when they came in the league, and Rondo and Bynum have benefited from great coaching to get themselves where they are today. Who knows how they would have developed under Woody.
IceColdATLien
February 22nd, 2012
12:46 am
John Hollinger writes on ESPN Rumor Central that the “League would frown heavily on Johnson playing first game after break if he skips (the All-Star game).”
Who gives a damn if Czarina Stern “frowns” on Joe not playing (cuz we all know that Hollinger was referring to Dictator David when saying “the League”). He doesn’t own the Hawks (yet), so ASG and Joe should do what’s right for the Hawks and what’s right for Joe.
Hawks Fan Down Under
February 22nd, 2012
1:01 am
LD is terrible….it’s proven most games. The guy can’t manage the team AT ALL. This includes rotations, roles, units etc. Just all over the shop.
But also our offence is so shambolic as to be embarrassing. So many times Teague brings the ball up then flips a soft pass to Joe or Josh on the wing….this team barely runs plays! LD is the reason.
The downward spiral continues at an even greater pace then I could imagine. tMac jack of the rotations, marvin wants out, Josh wants everybody ELSE to pass more, Joe wants everybody ELSE to not worry about shots etc…..the ship is sinking AND dudes are lighting fires on the decks….this team is getting what it deserves. unfortunately the fans dont deserve it.
And to sum up Josh …..against the Bulls in the fourth he received the ball at the top of the key, sighted a WIDE OPEN Pargo spotted at the 3 point line then proceeded to jack up a long 2 point brick. This is not dumb, this is selfish….this is Josh Smith!
Buddy Grizzard
February 22nd, 2012
1:03 am
“If Billy Knight had had the brains to pick Chris Paul, we’d have been a better team, Josh Smith would be a better player than he is now.” – Big Ray
So true. I think it was Sam Presti (the guy who discovered Tony Parker while working in the Spurs front office) who said that the Spurs got lucky with Ginobili. They had a higher pick in the second round they used on a guy who never panned out before picking Manu at the very end of the second round. If they had thought he had hall of fame talent, they would have picked him sooner.
The analogy here is with the Hawks getting lucky picking Smoove. If they had any idea he would be this good, they would have made him a lottery pick instead of Childress. But they got lucky and picked a star at the end of the first round. Now they will most likely be forced to trade him by this time next year because the Hawks cannot afford another max contract. Think about this. Rudy Gay has a max contract. He’s nowhere near as good as Josh.
Blake
February 22nd, 2012
1:06 am
When Is somebody gonna get F#@&$#+ Mad?
IceColdATLien
February 22nd, 2012
1:06 am
Down Under, LD is the lowest paid head coach in the league for a reason…
However, since he is the cheapest (and least respected) coach, you gotta wonder how much control he really has over playing time or benching guys for disciplinary reasons. On the other hand, we now know why Josh and Joe lobbied so damn hard to get LD the job: they knew they’d get to do as they damn well pleased.
Blake
February 22nd, 2012
1:08 am
I mean….I never see or hear any passion or anger with these Atlanta sports teams….!
Rufus1
February 22nd, 2012
1:17 am
Joe is talking about Josh…..
If you don’t think he is talking about Josh you aren’t being honest….Josh took 23 shots to score 22pts and that was a GOOD game. 14.5 shots a game(at least half are jumpers) is too many for Josh… LD is going to let Josh get him fired.
Buddy Grizzard
February 22nd, 2012
1:17 am
“League would frown heavily on Johnson playing first game after break if he skips”
How f-ing stupid is that? All-Star game more important than the Hawks having a player healthy that the organization has $120m invested in? W T F???
Buddy Grizzard
February 22nd, 2012
1:23 am
“Drew said he has not kept in touch with Woodson, citing the NBA schedule.” – From C-Viv article.
NBA schedule my ass. The NBA is all about networking. People stay in contact all the time, no matter how busy they are. If Drew and Woodson don’t talk, it’s because Woodson knows that Drew went behind his back to make relationships to put himself in a position to replace Woodson.
IceColdATLien
February 22nd, 2012
1:24 am
Blake, do you mean anger and passion from the players or the fans?
Buddy Grizzard
February 22nd, 2012
1:29 am
Where’s slimjr when you need him? The chief gangsta has spoken! No rest for the knee Joe, All Star game too important!
You know what this is really about? Stuff like this gets leaked to Hollinger because people use him as their messenger boy. In this case, Stern is furious at Smoove for suggesting that coaches make their All Star votes as favors to certain agents they have relationships with. If Joe pulls out of the All Star game, it puts Stern in the position of having to name Smoove an All Star after his harsh comments about how the league works. Or, it puts Stern in the position of having to pick someone else and deal with the backlash of not giving the nod to Smoove for obvious political reasons.
IceColdATLien
February 22nd, 2012
1:33 am
I don’t know about that, Buddy. I doubt Woodson feels that LD set him up or anything nefarious like that. In fact, I would guess that Woody knew he was out the door regardless and was probably happy that Drew finally got a shot to be the head guy. Remember that both those guys go a long way back, and Woodson knows what it’s like to be an assistant trying to get a head coaching gig. It’s not like Drew was in demand or anything, or else he wouldn’t have signed the smallest contract of any head guy in the league. While all those guys network like crazy, those two worked together for 5 years (at least), so it ain’t like they need to talk on the regular in order to maintain their relationship.
Besides, it’s just bad form to say “yeah, me and Woody talk all the time” when they’re basically competing against one another in the East. I doubt there’s any “there” there.
Grandad
February 22nd, 2012
1:36 am
Najeh
My point about Josh & turnovers:
‘`to which you so scornfully mocked`’
I think, no correction, I know for a fact;
that turnovers, whether Josh or Jiminy Cricket;
are wrongfully attrbuted on occasion by choice;
preferentially; elsewise the stat keeper don’t know basketball
and credits the recipient of a bad pass rather than the tosser thereof.
I’m neither alleging nor denying a conspiracy theory.
I am merely stating:
I’ve watched intently; recent games;
where Josh was credited with half as many or more
than his rightful share.
Whether or not; all turnovers are skewed this way;
I know not – as I have -not- done a study.
Perhaps [not a justification] just a perhaps;
I see a play and credit Josh and the stat keeper
gives credit to another … I do not know ?
Perhaps they have ‘`team turnovers`’ I do not know ?
Perhaps the stat keeper is stupid or lazy ? ? ?
Maybe the stat keeper is much like yourself
and has Josh on a pedestal.
Nonfeasantly speaking you could be Josh’s personal stat keeper;
that would explain all ?
No that would be presumptive on my part, sinking me to a level
known only to malfeasant stat keepers and yourself.
What I do know is this.
I am truthful.
I absolutely understand what is, and what is not,
and who should be, and who should not be credited with,
a durn turnover.
Furthermore;
Josh Smith is more moron than Magic.
He does not possess the B-ball IQ to handle the ball;
in transition (ask Nique); as a facilitator from the top;
[he shoots more often than he reverses], which is never;
he attempts 50/50 passes and always blames his teammate
[for not catching his 90 mph fastball at point blank range];
he also is not a point forward; and finally he is not …..
the smartest player on the team (per LD) !
_____________________________________________
Now – I look forward to your sardonian witty riposte.
_____________________________________________
One more little tid-bit while I’m at it.
Josh Smivh can’t shoot worth shinola neither.
IceColdATLien
February 22nd, 2012
1:42 am
Wow, Buddy, you mos def got the conspiratorial thang working tonight, huh? Like the Drew-Woody thing, I think you might be overthinking the political dynamic just a bit with regard to Dictator David. I definitely agree that Hollinger was Stern’s message boy, but I”m guessing it has more to do with Dear Leader Stern wanting to send a message to the All-Star players that they better play in the All-Star game if selected instead of claiming to have an injury just so they can get a long weekend off… especially in a year like this one where every player is trying to find every opportunity to rest they can get. The last think Stern wants is a bunch of superstars sitting on the All-Star bench in street clothes clowning around while a bunch of subs who really don’t deserve to be there are playing.
Of course, we could both be wrong and it’s just Stern being the jerk-off we all realized he was during the lockout.
Grandad
February 22nd, 2012
1:46 am
IceColdATLien
If I write tooo much;
hit the scrolll button !!!
IceColdATLien
February 22nd, 2012
1:55 am
Naw Grandad, I was actually talking about another dude 3 pages ago. But I realize that there are a couple of dudes on here who do go on some serious, not to mention pointless, diatribes directed at nobody in particular… but it seems like the same person using multiple names cuz the writing is very similar (not saying a whole lot, but using a whole lot of words to do so).
You’re carrying on a conversation, so by all means have at it! It’s just the knuckleheads that are the same kinda people who like to hear the sound of their own voice… it’s just they’re typing away instead as though they’re the one writing the column. Didn’t mean you (unless you’re the fool using several names).
Big Ray
February 22nd, 2012
2:10 am
Najeh ,
Heh….I don’t really like playing the “what if” thing in our past drafts. Depressing. And you just made it worse with your own hindsight. Thanks a lot!
Grandad ,
Josh vs. Joe is out of control. It hasn’t gone nuclear yet for one reason and one reason only – neither player really possesses the outright vinegar necessary. Joe is aware of the situation overall, but is a post game quote guy, not an in-your-face passionate kinda guy. Josh is the rah-rah guy on the sidelines and likes to be a teammate. He’s not getting in anybody’s face very much, either.
But unlike Joe, I believe Josh is totally unaware of his situation with the other team captain, much less the entire picture.
Still, this could blow up big in other ways. It won’t become a slugfest or even likely a locker room brawl. But it will cause an on-court melt down that could result in an ugly postseason push. We’re talking 1st round loss, of course. I think there are too many crappy team in the East right now to keep the Hawks out of the playoffs. That, and the season is too short (for once).
Buddy Grizzard ,
Your 1:03 and 1:29 am posts are completely ON POINT.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 22nd, 2012
2:12 am
“Nonfeasantly speaking you could be Josh’s personal stat keeper;
that would explain all ?
No that would be presumptive on my part, sinking me to a level
known only to malfeasant stat keepers and yourself.”
No, Grandad, what is presumptive is basing your opinion on your own non-fact-based conjecture rather than on the official stats recorded and reported by the league.
I base my opinions on facts. I see that Josh commits 2.5 turnovers per game as reported by the official NBA stat keepers and move on.
You are basing your opinions on your opinions. Your thought process starts with the opinion that Josh commits a lot of turnovers, then progresses to see that the official stats don’t credit him with that many turnovers, and instead of revising your opinion accordingly to conform with the facts, you convince yourself that the facts themselves are flawed and your opinion is correct.
The good news is, you are not alone by a long shot. In fact an entire study has been done to show that many people, when confronted with facts that contradict their beliefs, dig in even more strongly with the beliefs that they already held.
However, individuals who receive unwelcome information may not simply resist challenges to their views. Instead, they may come to support their original opinion even more strongly—what we call a “backfire effect.”5 For instance, in a dynamic process tracing experiment, Redlawsk (2002) finds that subjects who were not given a memory-based processing prime came to view their preferred candidate in a mock election more positively after being exposed to negative information about the candidate.6 Similarly, Republicans who were provided with a frame that attributed prevalence of Type 2 diabetes to neighborhood conditions were less likely to support public health measures targeting social determinants of health than their counterparts in a control condition (Gollust et al. 2009). What produces such an effect? While Lebo and Cassino interpret backfire effect-type results as resulting from individuals “simply view[ing] unfavorable information as actually being in agreement with their existing beliefs” (2007, p. 723), we follow Lodge and Taber (2000) and Redlawsk (2002) in interpreting backfire effects as a possible result of the process by which people counterargue preference-incongruent information and bolster their preexisting views. If people counterargue unwelcome information vigorously enough, they may end up with “more attitudinally congruent information in mind than before the debate” (Lodge and Taber 2000, p. 209), which in turn leads them to report opinions that are more extreme than they otherwise would have had.
Granted, they were talking about politics, not turnovers, but the basic principle still stands.
I know that NBA stat keepers are not perfect, but your allegation that there is some kind of ongoing pattern of crediting Josh with fewer turnovers than he actually earns suggests that this results from more than just ineptitude or ignorance, but rather from some sort of conspiracy to suppress his number of turnovers. What it more likely suggests is that contrary to your belief, you do not quite know what is and is not a durn turnover, at least as defined by the NBA rulebook.
In any case, there are plenty of valid reasons to criticize Josh without having to invent extra ones.
Buddy Grizzard
February 22nd, 2012
2:24 am
“Crawford 5-5 for 18pts in the 1st half. Blazers up 23 over the Spurs at halftime.” – Melvin
LOL Crawford doing work against the Austin Toros starting lineup with Parker, Ginobili and Duncan held out of the game by Pops.
valyboy
February 22nd, 2012
2:34 am
we will win witout iso joe, he is no leader and i wish we can cut his minutes
valyboy
February 22nd, 2012
2:35 am
before you know it this team might be in seattle soon
Buddy Grizzard
February 22nd, 2012
2:40 am
“In fact, I would guess that Woody knew he was out the door regardless and was probably happy that Drew finally got a shot to be the head guy.” – IceColdATLien
If that was the case, Woodson probably would have granted an interview to the AJC to say how happy he is for his protege to be having some success. Let’s watch and see if Drew and Woodson shake hands before or after the game… I’m curious. LD is the sum of Woodson’s coaching tree.
“The last thing Stern wants is a bunch of superstars sitting on the All-Star bench in street clothes clowning around while a bunch of subs who really don’t deserve to be there are playing.” – IceColdATLien
You’ve got several types of players in the All-Star game. You’ve got established superstars like LeBron/Wade/Kobe who will use any marketing opportunity to elevate brand awareness. Then you’ve got guys like Hibbits and Iguodala who are making their first All-Star appearance. The above player types will not miss the All-Star game for anything other than a serious injury.
Joe Johnson doesn’t fit either type. He’s been there, done that, and he doesn’t have a “brand.” Is Stern concerned that ratings for the All-Star game are going to plummet if Joe F’ing Johnson doesn’t play? Is there a less inspiring player in the All-Star game than Joe Johnson? No. This is all about sending a message to Joe to show up and play his 5 minutes so Stern doesn’t have to make Smoove an All-Star.
vava74
February 22nd, 2012
2:52 am
The team will only improve once Smoove gets his chance at being the main cog in a make or break opportunity.
If makes it – I doubt it, but it’s worth trying IMO – great, because no one in this ball club plays with more fire.
If he fails, there is a chance that he would finally understand his role and be more consistent at the things he does well.
Until then, we will be just a bunch of reasonably talent players, who win against lesser teams on account of their individual quality but will fail against better coached teams.
The whole commentary by JJ reflects LACK OF COACHING. This team has no direction and no one even trying to give it.