Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 101, Suns 99
Phoenix–I’ll let Willie Green sum it up: “First half we allowed them to dictate the tempo of the game. They pretty much got anything they wanted. They just controlled the game. The second half we threw that zone at them, threw them off rhythm a little bit, got our hands up on their shots, got some fastbreak points. We got right back in the game.”
- The Suns shredded the Hawks through three quarters. The Hawks hung around because Willie Green, Jeff Teague and Josh Smith made 3s, Smith controlled the boards and they collected 11 steals.
- The Hawks started to pull away to win in the fourth quarter because the zone slowed Phoenix’s screen-roll game and the Suns couldn’t make enough shots or pry away misses from Smith. “I thought the turning point was we couldn’t seem to get anything going against their zone,” Alvin Gentry said.
- In the fourth quarter Smith scored 10 points and rebounded six of Phoenix’s eight misses. Green and Vladimir Radmanovic each made a timely 3. It also helped that Steve Nash (!) and Ronnie Price picked up some ill-timed technical fouls.
- It wasn’t always pretty for the Hawks. They had some bumbling plays, like Vlad Rad and Kirk Hinrich fumbling away a simple handoff exchange and Josh stepping out of the bounds while setting up for a 3. Josh couldn’t quite kick his jumper habit.
- But the Hawks won and now get two days without a game for the first time all season. “I thought it was a typo on my schedule,” Larry Drew said. “We need it in the worst way. I told the guys I don’t even want to see them tomorrow, just get away.”
- “I don’t want to see him either,” Josh said. “I want to see the bed, the pillow, the cover.”
- Smith deserves some sleep. He played the entire fourth quarter and alternated between scoring on Js and by attacking the basket. He was a beast on the boards, had two steals and was a menace patrolling the middle of the zone in the small lineup.
- “I just wanted to be aggressive,” Josh said. “I knew they were keying in on Joe [Johnson] and we needed some offense somewhere else. Me and Willie definitely picked up the slack. We played like we were supposed to be playing throughout the game.”
- Josh almost didn’t get his chance to carry the Hawks late. “I was going to pull Josh out early in fourth, but Joe said, ‘Leave him out there. He’s young.’ I’m glad he did because he just played a phenomenal game inside and out and defensively he was all over the place.”
- Joe: “When you’ve got a guy rolling like that. . . . He can handle it. He’s only 24, 25 (actually 26). He’s got some mileage left. Ride him until the wheels fall off. We’ve got two days off. He can rest tomorrow. I definitely wasn’t going to let coach take him out of the game, whether I had to sit down or not.”
- Josh’s final line in 45 minutes: 30 points on 23 shots, 17 rebounds, seven assists, four steals, three blocked shots, four turnovers.
- After Josh got off on a steady diet of post-ups during a stretch of the fourth quarter, Drew put the ball in Joe’s hands. It didn’t go well. His deliberate style slowed what had been a crisp offensive rhythm. That’s not a big problem when he’s creating and making good shots but he wasn’t doing that at winning time. “Credit guys like Willie and Vlad for coming off the bench and being ready,” Joe said.
- Most of Drew’s other moves worked out. The zone could have backfired if the Suns made shots and the Hawks couldn’t rebound but, really, it was the only hope of preventing Nash from carving them up.
- “We was having trouble guarding those guys man-to-man,” Green said. “Steve Nash is so good with the ball, if you don’t pick him up and get your hands in his vision he is hitting guys diving down at the basket for pinpoint shots. Second half we were keeping them under control, kept them on the perimeter and making them shoot over us.”
- I also can’t really fault Drew for closing with Green, Hinrich and Vlad Rad over Jeff Teague, Marvin Williams and Zaza Pachulia. And that’s not just with the benefit of hindsight.
- Teague was having a good offensive game but, when the Hawks did play man on a couple possessions, Hinrich was much better than Teague with crowding Nash and fighting over screens. Marvin was rebounding but Green was making shots (and six free throws). Zaza was having a strong game but the small lineup worked with Vlad Rad as a threat to make 3s.
- “In this kind of game you try to find the right combination of guys out there that can get you in some kind of rhythm,” Drew said. “Josh at five, Vlad at the four, it seemed to work out. We had the defense spread pretty good and we had shooters all over the place.”
- After a rough night checking Andrew Bynum, which happens, Zaza (two blocks, two steals) again more than held his own against an opponent with more accolades and a bigger paycheck. He’s never going to be nimble enough to defend a screen-roll attack this good. But he fills a valuable role on a team where driving to the basket and earning free throws and defense at the rim are scarce commodities.
- Tracy McGrady said it was his decision to sit: “Just resting”
- The Hawks still had to sweat it out at the end. After Channing Frye’s putback, Josh took the ball out from under the Suns’ basket. He sailed a long pass into the backcourt, which was a good idea because Green was breaking free. However, the pass was way too long and bounced away a few feet in front of Green.
- If Green didn’t at least touch it, it’s Phoenix ball under its basket with 2.1 seconds left. “Whatever it took, I was going to dive at it,” Green said. “I knew I just had to touch it.”
- Josh: “He’s athletic enough to run it down. He said he was definitely going to get a hand on it. I’m glad that he did. I’m really happy that he did.”
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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422 comments Add your comment
vava74
February 16th, 2012
11:14 am
AJ,
What is the risk? It’s a simple question, please answer.
WHAT THE F*CK IS THE RISK INVOLVED IN THAT GAMBLE?
#5 or #8?
Does this really matter?
Josh is a good passer, tall and jumps well, so he can pass out of double teams effectively.
If double teamed he could pass to a cutting and zipping Teague (who can also knock down open 3’s), or to Green/JJ/Hinrich for long bombs, to T-Mac for a new set using his playmaking skills.
JJ would thrive if pressure was shifted away from him.
If the gamble paid off, we could be looking at a steady #3 slot and a true chance at the ECF.
vava74
February 16th, 2012
11:16 am
AJ,
If you were coaching the Hawks last year when Hinrich went down you would have started Jamal against CHI.
100% guaranteed. So I rest my case.
Just Joe
February 16th, 2012
11:23 am
Are we still at the point where we’re worried about Teague’s confidence? Really? I’m not buying this whole fragile psyche argument. Kirk was +9. Teague was -7. LD made an adjustment (almost too late) while Kirk was in the game. It worked, and LD stayed with who he had on the floor. I don’t see the big deal. It is in our best interest (trade value) for Hinrich to play well. I think Teague can handle it.
ICECOLD
February 16th, 2012
11:25 am
In order for Josh smith to have a easier post game, people have to be scared of his jump shots.. they don’t have to be scared but they need to respect it. The same go with Jeff Teague … Josh shoots a lot of jump shots because nobody respects it, just like Teague 3 point shooting. U have to get other teams to respect your weaknesses !!
That being said, this is Teague and Josh team… Everybody knows how Jo Johnson play … So if they shut him down , then he is just shut down , but Jeff and Josh , are super athletic , so they have to first get their jump shots respected so it will open up the rest of their game …
He should keep shooting and hitting jump shots until they respect it, then pump fake and go..
So should Teague
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2012
11:30 am
vava, find a post in the past 2 years where I appeared to be a Jamal fan. Dude, I was against Jamal before he put on a Hawks uniform. As you know, you won’t be able to find one but if you’re saying that my opinion on teague last year invalidates any opinion I have on the Hawks, then scroll.
What is the risk? It depends on your perspective. if you are LD and there is an option to cut you loose, the risk is that you sub-optimize your asstes now and don’t get invited to coah the team next year.
If you’re the ASG, the difference in a 4 seed and 8 seed is likely a few million dollars in lost home playoff game revenue.
If you’re a fan, the risk is small. If you’re a teammate, the risk is based on your willingness to to play a subordinate role.
But let’s not act like any team that decides to flip-the-script and highlight a different player does so with little risk. Interesting theater, no doubt. But if there is the possibility for great reward, doesn’t that inherently mean there is risk?
vava74
February 16th, 2012
11:44 am
AJ,
No, there is no real risk in spite of the possibility of great reward (again, I am not 100% confident – but I am 100% sure that it would what I would do).
Sports is just like any other business, you need to gamble from time to time. If you always play it safe you will not find the deal that will render you millionaire.
Let’s not kid ourselves. This team, without Horford has only a meager chance at reaching the second round of the playoffs, so I don’t see the financial risk you are talking about.
Instead of a trade with uncertain results lets TRADE WITHIN.
Josh is BY FAR the player in the Hawks with more potential and his unhappiness and his inability to deal with criticism has to be tackled.
As I said: it’s make or break and the chances that he would get down to Earth if he failed are great.
He has great heart and fire and seems to be a really good kid. Every single time he has a good game he ALWAYS praises the group. ALWAYS.
We know that we cannot get another guy which would allow us to maximize JJ’s Robin talent, so we need to gamble and see if we already have that guy in our roster.
LOW RISK, HIGH REWARD.
You don’t commit more salary, you don’t need to make major roster adjustments, you simply take a calculated gamble.
I am convinced that one the problems that we have is that Josh does not consider JJ worthy of chief cog status. He sees that JJ is uncomfortable in that role, that JJ’s game does not flow due to the excessive attention.
JJ had a 25ppg season when no one cared about the Hawks and no one cared if JJ went for 30 or 35 a few nights per month.
Now that the Hawks are a playoff team, people go out to stop JJ and he can’t handle that.
Josh’s bad jumpers are no worse than JJ’s half hearted ISO-plays.
NOT EVEN JJ BELIEVES in his own ISO plays. He no longer shoots with confidence like he did a few years ago.
He is mentally tired from OVERACHIEVING.
I am sure that he would be happy to contribute in a different way, a Robin like role, a Dumars role – he could be our silent assassin.
vava74
February 16th, 2012
11:44 am
…but I am 100% sure that it would be what I would do).
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2012
11:54 am
vava, anything that is low risk and high reward sounds like an internet or Ponzi scheme.
Again, little risk if you can convince the owners to eat the lost home playoff revenue and convince LD that the outcome of the test will not affect his contract status in June. Other than those insignificant details related to the finances of the people who actually own and manage the team… sure, no risk.
The other option is for Josh to simply have fewer 10-13 point games, even if that means he won’t have as many 25+ games. There is a middle ground there that may not offer as much reward or risk. Looking over a 12-15 game sample, I think smoothing out some of those peaks and valleys would be a great place to start.
doc
February 16th, 2012
11:57 am
there are mainly three types of turnovers carelessness, stupidity and agressive ones. when josh makes the latter one or teague then fine play on. josh is different because he first believes in himself and what someone said earlier that he is sooooo very competitive and that leads him tobbrain lock up sometimes. teague is just not that guy and criticism gets him to thinking and questioning himself too much.
the other thing that i wish the hawks would do is put it in iish’s hands to be the guy like a howard. ubfortunately that would mean clear out space and lanes for him and he cant be trusted to go aggressively to the basket. i dont think they trust him enough to do the right take it to the basket thing.
the play between him and jj at the end of the game was pathetic though there was clear out to that side obviously. to not have gotten more than a pathetic jump shot grates my soul. either one if them should have over powered the defender or josh shoukd have done a pick and roll with jj but stagnation reigned. the play was there and they did what they do too much, they settled.
vava74
February 16th, 2012
12:06 pm
“Looking over a 12-15 game sample, I think smoothing out some of those peaks and valleys would be a great place to start.”
AJ,
Re-read my post.
MY THEORY is that you will never get Josh to smooth out those peaks become that player UNLESS you take a gamble with him as chief cog.
He will NOT get there with gentle nudges.
Again, contrary to what doc says, Josh, IMO, is VERY SENSITIVE to criticism, he simply reacts differently than Teague.
Teague doubts himself and shies away, Josh doubts himself BUT presses on, either out of control or with his brain locked and hesitant, over thinking his jump shots – hence the air balls and bricks.
That is why I would give him 25 games of free reign to make or break.
MikeH
February 16th, 2012
12:07 pm
D12 knows this ownership is not committed to winning championships..
Hawks= write off….
What is a write off? And who are the ones writing it off?
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
12:09 pm
Willie Green is no fluke!
He’s got to get more minutes!
He put up Jamal “nimbers” and added tough defense to boot! What do ya know?
How bout that dunk attempt in traffic against the opposing Bigs? #24 would have got that rejected for sure…
This guys is 6″4″, but plays big!
#24 is 6′9″ but plays small!
JM
February 16th, 2012
12:17 pm
How bout that dunk attempt in traffic against the opposing Bigs? #24 would have got that rejected for sure
Haha, I was in the Daily Dime Live when that happened, and the Phoenix guy said, “Willie Green almost ended the city of Phoenix.” You know Marvin wouldn’t have done that.
Astro Joe
February 16th, 2012
12:18 pm
vava, again, interesting theory but not one that I would like to see executed. And frankly, I wouldn’t give free reign to any non-PG that immediately comes to mind.
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
12:25 pm
ASG/ Atlanta Spirit Group=I believe its (7) Atlanta Hawks investors/owners.. Total net worth North of 1 billion usd….
They claim to have lost 15 million( pocket change for them) last season..Talk to a business owner about writing off losses operating a business…
So for “fun” they decided to build a 2 million dollar Steak House restaurant called “Reds”! Why would they do that you may ask? Well this new CBA deal they signed with the players will make them a ton more money over the term of this deal..Word on the street, several Billions for the NBA owners! Sweet Deal? Yep…
Maybe thats why the ASG pulled out of the deal to sell the Franchise to the pizza guy over in Cali? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……..
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
12:28 pm
Term of the day:
Point Guard Josh…….
TMACfan
February 16th, 2012
12:28 pm
D12
Walt Frazier
February 16th, 2012
12:36 pm
Teague had plenty of time over the summer to improve his play, which he has. But Teague should be playing at a higher level in his all around game. The Hawks, when they get a couple of legit “bigs”, should be fun to watch. They need to get a cerebral legit coach, and a 6′3 cerebral point, that can capitalize on the “Linsanity”, by spreading the floor-and dictating the game. We also need an Atlanta celeb-like Spike with the Knicks, Jack with the Lakers; someone who will sit in their courtside seats night after night to cheer the Hawks on. We need a Jeremy Lin like player with the skill set who is humble and not arrogant-who cares less about the team and is more concerned with his paycheck, than being thankful to get paid to play this young boys game.
darrell starks
February 16th, 2012
12:39 pm
Joe is taking to many difficult long jumshots, Coach LD must starte getting him the ball in the post to make it more easier for him, Teague have to continue attack with out hesitant and just play his game, Teague played like Teague in the first 1st quarter but stop being aggressive after that, Coach has make Teague play to his strenght.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
12:39 pm
Hey Walt how bout a Cerebal GM?..Dont forget this buster Sund!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
12:39 pm
Cerebral^^^^
Tremaine
February 16th, 2012
12:40 pm
MARVIN WILLIAMS FOR CHRIS KAMAN
darrell starks
February 16th, 2012
12:41 pm
IVAN NEED MORE MINUTES POINT BLANK PERIOD, THE GUY HAVE TALENT.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
12:42 pm
When your guarding a two time MVP its going to take something out of you…Duh…
Bring in Pargo to give Teague a quick rest then get him back out there… Teague would have flourished in that zone like Capt Kirk did……
darrell starks
February 16th, 2012
12:44 pm
To many Jumshots by the Hawks must learn play more inside out first.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Rusty
February 16th, 2012
12:46 pm
I think that after JT has a hot shooting period LD says that fine & dandy but I want to see you getting your team mates more involved. So he goes out there not looking to get his shots & the stupid LD sits him on the bench. I often see him pulling him after making a good play. If you asked him why he played KH so much ,he would say he had a feeling and that would be rich because everything the dope does makes no sense.
Big Lou
February 16th, 2012
12:47 pm
The whole Teague vs Kirk argument is pointless. This is why:
Kirk benefited off the Zone. Did we forget how Nash blew past him for the three point play in the last seconds of the game? Teague will always be a better defender one on one. The only reason he got owned against Nash was because he didn’t get the benefit of the zone, and horrible help with the pick and roll plays. LD was so incompetent that it took him almost the whole game to switch to ZONE or trap Nash.
The Hawks were lucky last night that the jump shots went down. Don’t be naive people. The team will always have a better chance of winning with Teague, because he can penetrate the defense, where Kirk makes the team jump shooters. Anyone with half a brain and watches the Hawks often can see this.
Big Lou
February 16th, 2012
1:03 pm
Starting lineup:
Teague(Penetrate and outside shot), Green(Penetrate and outside shot), JJ(Screen for open Js, and force to rebound in SF position), Josh(Post and force to rebound), and Zaza(Flop, make an illegal screen, and scream without finishing to the basket–brings energy though).
Off the Bench:
Kirk, TMAC(Post and Penetration), Marvin(Re-bounder), Vlad(Perimeter threat), and Ivan(Re-bounder).
Game. Set. Profit.
Fire LD. Hire Duane!
falCans
February 16th, 2012
1:25 pm
WOOOW IM STILL NOT SEEIN THE VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN JOSH SMITH BT YOU BLOGGERS!!! JOSH HAS BEEN THE BEST PLAYER ON HAWKS FA PAST 4 YEARS!!!! LOOK AT HIS NUMBERS FOR THOSE WHO DONT WATCH THE GAMES. GLAD LD FINALLY UNLEASHED JSMOOVE. OH YEA HORFORD SUCKS ES ONLY A ALLSTAR BC THERE ARE NO CENTERS N THE NBA ANYMORE!!!
SOMEBODY TELL LD (coach of year) THAT MORE PLAYS NEED TO RUN THRU#5 IN THE POST
Greg
February 16th, 2012
1:34 pm
Joe Johnson is pathetic…an all-star? What a joke.
Look at his stat line for this game….36 minutes, 2 for 10 from the field, 3 assist and ZERO rebounds. He gets shut down by Grant Hill? His old is he? 45?
When the Hawks move from Atlanta in a few years, people will look back at this Joe Johnson deal as the straw that broke the camel’s back. Johnson is not a winner and he is certainly not a leader.
Congrats to Josh for stepping up his game.
Melvin
February 16th, 2012
1:43 pm
Vava,
You would get better results banging your head against the wall than trying to convince Astro of anything short of trading Josh…
Rusty
February 16th, 2012
1:50 pm
Now Josh is looking for his shots as much as Joe seats is. I really don’t know if that is good or bad. We are seeing more iso basketball.
Mac-Town (#maconchevyrider)
February 16th, 2012
1:52 pm
Who is Marvin Williams? I’m lost
Rusty
February 16th, 2012
1:52 pm
As much as Joe does.
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
1:54 pm
Josh is not a scorer and his limited offensive skills show up against the Elites..Stay tuned..
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
1:57 pm
The suns are a sub .500 team because they dont play much defense.
Stay tuned,Josh will be brought back down to earth..Rudy Gay he’s not..But I sure do love his defense!
ALL FREAKING DAY! JOSH is like Mozart on defense.. A thing of beauty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
February 16th, 2012
2:00 pm
“I think if you look at Josh’s stat line, you could decide that he is ready to be ridden as the team’s first scoring option. but if you watched the game, you would know that he was simply en fuego in a way that is not likely to happen again anytime soon. Again, designing a plan that requires the unusual to become the norm is fairly idiotic.”
This is true.
I don’t think Josh is a good enough scorer to be given the responsibility of the top scoring option. I’m not saying this because of his jumper — which actually hasn’t been that bad this year — but his poor handles, inability to use his right hand, and inability to get favorable post position against bigger players with consistency. vava74 may be on point with regard to Josh’s psychology and what might get him going, but that mentality has to be supplemented by a level of skill that Josh simply doesn’t have when it comes to scoring the basketball.
With that said, Josh does consistently do one thing better than the rest of the team, and that is finding the open man. Northcyde is right that on a team like this without a true go-to scoring option, the right move is to ride the hot hand. But someone has to get the ball to that hot hand, and I trust Josh to do that with consistency more than I trust Joe, Teague, or anyone else to do so.
There are three types of plays the Hawks should run consistently: pick and rolls to get Teague moving toward the basket, off the ball screens and curls for Joe to catch and shoot or catch and drive for the floater, and post ups for Josh. Pretty much every play should be one of these. You can mix in some post ups for Joe and T-Mac in there, but those three should be the Hawks’ bread and butter.
But between Teague, Joe, and Josh, Josh is the one who is best equipped to get the ball out of his hands quickly and feed teammates even when he is off his game scoring the ball. Yeah, he throws some bad passes every now and then, but he consistently displays a pass-first mentality more frequently than Joe and Teague do. When Josh has a poor matchup with respect to scoring, he can and should still be counted on to find open teammates.
So in this respect, I don’t mind running the offense through Josh, provided that he knows his job is to think pass-first and not to force shots against bad matchups. The key is that you run the offense through him like how you would run it through a pass-first point guard, where the goal is for someone to get a good shot, not for him to get a shot.
darrell starks
February 16th, 2012
2:03 pm
IF MARVIN STARTE THE NEXT GAME THERE MUST BE AND CONSPIRACY GOING ON.
GO FALCONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
February 16th, 2012
2:06 pm
MY BAD GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
2:12 pm
Imagine T-MAC’s head on top of Josh’s body= LBJ 2…..Hahahahaha
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
2:14 pm
The Fla-cons aint going know where!
0-4……..Yawn……………!
RG3 is an upgrade over Melt all day……………………………..
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
2:18 pm
no^^^^
Slimjr
February 16th, 2012
2:19 pm
Josh needs to give and go, stop standing around asking for it back.Cut dude.Cut to the basket…
doc
February 16th, 2012
2:24 pm
vava you may have misinterpreted that, in that i was saying, he responds differently to it by believing in himself and because of it has brain cramps or lock downs and does stupid things to prove himself or goes to the corner and pouts. yes, as anyone does, they respond to criticism in some way. jj is indifferent, it looks different at the surface but we see how ineffective it is, then to continue, teague contracts, al more focused, etc.
where josh has to be commended this year and as a sign of maturity late as it is, is how he has not been thrown off as much by officiating. there is more work to be done before he can be taken seriously by fans, media and coaches that do the voting that is emotional. josh, as i have said over and over is a lightening rod. in some ways josh is a late bloomer but he continues to work on his game. marvin? not so much. when osh is smash josh he is an all star. osh the man without a j, smmm……, cant type it, fumbling fast breaks away instead of releasing the ball to his point guard, is not.
O'Brien
February 16th, 2012
2:24 pm
northcyde,
Woody had the same substituion issues too. Regrdless of how well a player is playing, they would get subbed at a certain time just because that was the HC’s pattern.
doc
February 16th, 2012
2:26 pm
btw, marvin, the happy go lucky lovable smiling puppy, is oblivious to criticism by every measure i can see.
doc
February 16th, 2012
2:28 pm
slimj, jj and josh, had the perfect give and go or pick and roll last night and both guys just stood there wasting another possession. please some coach point it out to them. they could be huge doing that getting mismatch on mismatch.
drmaryb.[*_*].
February 16th, 2012
2:30 pm
Vava74, ok … I haven’t read page 2 as of yet. Ill go read that now to see where everyone is at on this perplexing core and team.
O'Brien
February 16th, 2012
2:30 pm
AJ,
I know its still early, but what do you think of the Hawk’s chances to get to the second round this year?
From hoopshype;
The team’s listed by JR Smith as frontrunners for his services are Knicks, Lakers, Clippers, Bulls, Indy, and Orlando.
If he signs with the Bulls, that gives them a legit scorer to help D-Rose when defenses get tight in the playoffs. That would be huge for the Bulls.
northcyde
February 16th, 2012
2:36 pm
O’Brien I agree. Difference with Woody is that if you were playing well, you would get your minutes. That’s how Flip took Acie’s spot as the backup PG, and eventually Marvin’s spot in the end of game lineup. Woody definitely had set substitution patterns, as do most coaches ( at least in the 1st half of games. )