Atlanta Hawks: Lakers 86, Hawks 78
Los Angeles–The Hawks held the Lakers to 86 points on 84 shots, had 11 turnovers to L.A’s 13, shot 14 free throws (.16 rate) to the Lakers’ nine (.11 rate) and collected 17 of the Lakers’ 47 misses. They lost because they shot 34.4 percent while missing 12 of 20 shots at the rim and botching at least six transition chances; couldn’t stop Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol in the paint early, and saw the Lakers scored 15 points off those 11 turnovers.
- “I don’t know how many layups we missed,” Larry Drew said. “We missed a ton of point-blank shots. We turned the ball over at crucial times, too. Defensively I thought we were pretty much right there on the money but we just couldn’t buy a shot.”
- The Hawks scored just 10 points in the second quarter but it wasn’t just because they were settling for Js. Yes, they missed all seven 3-point attempts in the period but they also missed seven consecutive layup attempts. “We got to the rim,” Jeff Teague said. “That’s what we wanted to do. But we couldn’t finish.”
- No doubt the Lakers’ length had something to do with Atlanta missing so many at close range. The Hawks had seven shots blocked, including two of the layup attempts, and you could see them peeking for defenders when they drove to the basket. “We just have to have more focus when we are going to the rim,” Drew said. “You can’t be concerned about them blocking the shots or changing them.”
- I said the Hawks should shoot more 3s and of course they go out and miss 20 of 27 attempts, including 13 of 16 tries after the first quarter. Still, that’s an effective field-goal percentage of 38.3 compared to 38 percent on 2s (40 percent at the rim) and 64 percent on free throws. The Hawks couldn’t make anything.
- “It wasn’t a great shooting night,” Joe Johnson said. “But you can make up for that with effort and defense. I think our defense was pretty good tonight but we missed a lot of easy shots.”
- The Hawks trailed just 59-51 entering the fourth. The Lakers got some separation behind Steve Blake, Matt Barnes and Andrew Goudelock. Drew waited until the official timeout at 8:04 to put Johnson and Josh Smith back in with Atlanta down 69-57.
- “I was thinking about the back-to-back,” Drew said. “I wanted to go back with the starters and still make a push but I can’t drive them into the ground when we have a back-to-back. I thought the bench guys gave us some good minutes.”
- Vladimir Radmanovic’s 3 got the Hawks within 69-60 but Smith threw the ball away. After the Lakers scored on a second chance, Joe made a J but Blake shook free from Teague for a 3, Joe carried the ball for a turnover, and Gasol made a J. That was the last gasp for the Hawks.
- After Zaza Pachulia couldn’t keep Bynum from deep post position, Drew went to Erick Dampier. Except Drew said that’s not why he did it. “I was told [Zaza] had two fouls,” Drew said. “But they gave the foul to Joe. They said they changed it.”
- As it turned out, Dampier was pretty effective at making forcing Bynum to catch the ball away from the basket. Considering his lack of conditioning and mobility, he did well to play 16 minutes and get four rebounds. But his teammates should know that they can’t whip passes to those hands. “He did pretty good,” Josh said. “He played pretty good defense on Bynum. He missed a couple of chip tip ins. We was in a drought.”
- Zaza said he knew he only had one foul but it ended up working out for him, too. “I watched what [Dampier] did to [Bynun] and so in the second half I went out and did the same,” he said. Bynum overpowered Zaza a couple times but Zaza effectively pushed, cajoled and harassed him after halftime.
- In 15 second-half minutes, Josh was 1 for 7 with four rebounds and three assists. In the first half, he was 6 for 11 with five rebounds in 17 minutes. The problems were familiar: missed jumpers (3 of 9 outside of the paint) and untimely turnovers. There came a point where it looked as if he was no longer interested in venturing inside against the Lakers’ timber.
- Josh did a pretty good job bothering Gasol’s attempts around the basket. It’s no coincidence that the Lakers’ perimeter players started attacking the paint after he went to the bench in the third quarter.
- Joe never did assert himself as a scorer when the Hawks needed it. This wasn’t Milwaukee or Detroit. He did have five of the team’s 14 assists against two turnovers. “I got to where I wanted to get on the floor,” Joe said. “I missed a lot of easy shots for myself. I feel I could have made a lot more plays getting guys wide open shots.”
- Joe became the seventh player in Hawks franchise history to score at least 10,000 points. “It is what it is,” he said. “Maybe if we could have got a win it would feel a lot better. My main focus right now is for us to try to get the rest of these games on the road.”
- Zaza and Josh (nine rebounds each) got some help on the boards: Marvin Williams, Tracy McGrady and Vlad Rad had six each.
- Vlad Rad, back in his old building, made three 3-pointers for the first time since Jan. 9, which also is the last time he had as many as six attempts. T-Mac was driving to score, missing and looking for calls. Marvin missed a few good looks.
- With Dampier getting minutes at center and Vlad Rad at the four, Ivan Johnson got a DNP-CD.
- Teague’s 6-for-16 shooting included five misses at the rim and also a couple botched runners. He never got out of scoring mode and finished with two assists. The Hawks’ starting point guard wasn’t leading them on a night the offense was often aimless.
- Kobe Bryant scored 10 points on 18 shots with Joe plus help keeping him in check save for a burst in the third quarter.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
360 comments Add your comment
Ra'mon
February 15th, 2012
3:11 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6HUJfbVl7c&feature=related
O'Brien
February 15th, 2012
3:11 pm
Ra’mon,
Stay away from David Lee’s contract. He is owed 4 years, $56 mil after this year. And we would still have JJ’s monster contract to deal with.
And if we have ZaZa and Ellis starting, our defense would be terrible.
Ra'mon
February 15th, 2012
3:17 pm
O’Brien, than just a straight up deal of Horford for Ellis and 2nd rounder.
Rod from College Park
February 15th, 2012
3:20 pm
Ra’mon,
“You could never blame someone for drafting a prospect like Marvin (Rod, when KG came in the draft he didn’t have a post up game, and neither did Jermaine O’neal. And Marvin was the same age as KG when he was drafted).”
I agree that resigning him was bad, but drafting him wasa even worse. KG had almost no weaknesses is his scouting report except for the fact that he was rail thin. He could handle the ball, post, defend, and was athletic. He was just an unknown because all they could see him playing was high school comp. Jermaine O’Neal was drafted to be a center and he was a legit 7 footer, so that comparison is not valid. Again, Marvin was drafted to be a forward, but skill wise, he was not even close to Danny Granger. He was drafted based on potential, which was a dumb move.
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
3:27 pm
No I’m a guy who sees mismatches. What is the NBA won on? Mismatches. Getting it inside the paint.
Maybe you dont see how many mismatches we would have if we had [Leuer-tall solid P/C shooter]. The # of intangible things that would bring to Josh Smith’s game would literally be like having another Joe Johnson for us, and yes us because Leuer complete Smith’s game. NO JOKE. another Joe Johnson. Think of what Smith is missing in his game (undersized, dont want shooting) and Leuer (OVERized, want shooting) has that. And it makes Smith oversized as well.
Joe Johnson – oversized guard (w/ shooting)
Josh Smith – oversized Forward
Jon Leuer – oversized Forward (w/ shooting)
Joe Josh and Jon. The 3 oversized Js. And Then Teague stirring the drink. Thats why Im so excited for that. Look at all the games we lost and tell me which ones we would have not forced better matchups with JL.
Its simple math/logic to me in my mind but here’s what it looks like when we have a wing on Josh Smith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgdlgTs0LQQ
Now look at Marvin Williams on that. He BARELY manages to box out the taller Ryan Anderson. Thats why we get killed vs the Lakers. Then Josh uses his size at SF to keep the ball alive weakside.
But since Marvin cant box out Gasol we have Smith play Gasol and Instead of Smith using his athleticism to grab the weakside board we have to rely on Marvin to come weakside for that athletic board play.
Didnt happen yesterday. Marvin is more detrimental to the Hawks at this point.
We would not have lost so many games if we had Leuer to simply force matchups, box out and hit shots.
Ra'mon
February 15th, 2012
3:33 pm
Rod, you do realize Marvin scored 34 points against Josh as a Junior in AAU. Stuff like that goes a long way in the mind of scouts. Similar to the way Kwame dominated Tyson Chandler and Eddie Curry in the workouts for the Wizards.
Big D
February 15th, 2012
3:34 pm
Its simple. Hawks dropped the ball when Nawlins was practically trying to give Kaman away a week ago.
JJ is as inconsistent as it gets and Smith offers little on the offensive side and is only effective with weak side defense.
This team is continuing it backward slide down to irrelevance and anything less than blowing this team up would be a travesty
northcyde
February 15th, 2012
3:34 pm
People keep talking about offense, when the real problem is defense and rebounding. If the Hawks consistently did these two things, we could’ve won some of these games. When you’re limited offensively, you must play great defense to fuel the offense. This is why Chicago is one of the best teams in the league, even without Derrick Rose.
In both the Indiana and Orlando game, this team played great defense despite mediocre offense. In the past 5 losses, minus last night’s game, it was our inability to defend perimeter players or rebound the basketball that killed us.
Tonight, we’re not going to beat Phoenix by outgunning them. We’re going to beat them by containing Nash and limiting their offensive rebounds.
Defense will fuel the offense. The transition game has always been a major source of Hawks offense. If we win the rebounding battle and transition game, the Hawks will win.
DS
February 15th, 2012
3:34 pm
Oh man this dude Smith.Leuer.Bogut is back…does anyone read his comments anymore?
flash
February 15th, 2012
3:39 pm
Ra’mon,
Forget the 2nd rounder, I want Udoh. Good defender and shot blocker. In this case you would have Horford taking the place of Marvin or Kirk in my earlier scenario. Send Kirk or marvin if needed to make the deal.
Ra'mon
February 15th, 2012
3:39 pm
Northcyde, the Lakers had one of their worst shooting nights of the season against the Hawks. The Hawks are 10-1 when they score 100 points are more, with the only loss coming to the Heat in the game Bosh never should’ve had a chance to shoot the game tying 3.
MattP
February 15th, 2012
3:40 pm
“Oh man this dude Smith.Leuer.Bogut is back…does anyone read his comments anymore?” – DS
No I don’t, too long and boring to read.
Ra'mon
February 15th, 2012
3:40 pm
Flash, I’m for it.
By the way guys, I love what I saw from Dampier last night. He’s actually a little more mobile than Collins.
Jeff
February 15th, 2012
3:46 pm
Marvin is garbage, he airballed an open jumper, someone with his size, and his “ball handling ability” He should be going to the rim and getting fouled, shift Joe to the 3 and start hinrich or mcgrady, and trade marvin for whatever we can get. and keep Dampier too, He did very well last night,
what do you think @Michael Cunningham?
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
3:47 pm
People keep talking about offense, when the real problem is defense and rebounding.
Jeff Teague 6′1
Joe Johnson 6′8
Marvin Williams 6′8
Josh Smith 6′8
Zaza Pachulia 6′11
Kobe shot poorly yesterday. It was trouble on the big man front. When I got home from class Lakers announcers said the Lakers bigs were just that. Too big for the Hawks. I will watch the game later but Northcyde, u realize both Bynum and Gasol had double doubles
Size worked well on Kobe. So people stop with the small ball. If the team wants to go forward they have to select and start only one of their forwards, Josh and Marvin.
6′2 Jeff * 6′8 Joe*6′8 Josh*6′11 Jon*6′11 Pachulia
Pargo*Marvin*McGrady*Ivan/Vlad*Gooden
This trade (Hinrich – Gooden Leuer) can happen today. And we still have rare chance Horford is coming back for playoffs or as a trade chip come March 1 or out for the year.
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
3:52 pm
Marvin’s level of ball handling ability. Hes stuck between power and small forward. Worst of both worlds. Rebounding, toughness defending or scoring inside, post moves.
Thats the problem. Oh but apparently he shoots 3s well.
We need to shift the roster to bolster inside play.
Udoh? is a soft 6′10 anorexic PF and shooting 39% from the field. What?
northcyde
February 15th, 2012
3:58 pm
Ramon, n those games we scored 100 points or more, tell me how many games we outrebounded our opponent, and what did they shoot from the field.
Turning the Hawks into Golden State South isn’t going to help us beat elite teams.
And remember, the Hawks had a horrific offensive game, but was still well within striking distance of the Lakers until Drew sat Smith for 9 minutes in the 2nd half.
When we beat Miami, Chicago, Indiana and Orlando, we did it with defense.
When we beat Orlando n the playoffs last year, we did it with defense.
Our only shot in the playoffs is to become an elite defensive team, not an offensive one.
Rod from College Park
February 15th, 2012
3:59 pm
Ra’mon,
“Rod, you do realize Marvin scored 34 points against Josh as a Junior in AAU. Stuff like that goes a long way in the mind of scouts. Similar to the way Kwame dominated Tyson Chandler and Eddie Curry in the workouts for the Wizards.”
Dude be serious. That has nothing to do with Marvin getting drafted #2 in the draft. I personally have no knowledge of this AAU game you are talking about, but Marvin can not score 32 points in a game with nobody checking him, so I no that he did not put up 32 on Josh. He would not be able to get a shot up on Josh, let alone 30 points. Please provide me with that proof. (LOL)
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
3:59 pm
More importantly, Leuer continues to extend his range out beyond the college three point line. After improving from 29.6% as a sophomore to 39.1% from three point range last season, Leuer has continued to build upon that part of his game. Now taking 4.6 three point attempts per game, he is converting at an extremely efficient 44.8% this season. Leuer wastes little motion on catch and shoots, and does a good job making a quick decision before the defense has time to recover. His ability to translate this part of his game is an absolute key in becoming a contributor at the next level.
——–
Offensively, Marvin has only shown that he can score in one of four ways: open stand still jumpshots, lay-ups / dunks on fast breaks, put-backs and free throws. Marvin hasn’t shown he has the ability to put the ball on the floor and create his own shot consistently, whether it’s driving around a defender to get all the way to the rim or merely shooting off the dribble. If Marvin is going to be a great small forward in the NBA he will need to develop this part of his game. Also, Marvin has shown no post moves outside of trying to overpower his opponents with a drop-step toward the basket. When surrounded by defenders in the paint Marvin often gets his shot blocked because he has yet to show a jump hook, a fadeaway or an up-and-under move. In fact, Marvin’s best offensive move in the paint is trying to get to the free throw line. He will not be able to draw fouls easily against more experienced defenders. If Marvin is going to be a great power forward in the NBA he will need to develop this part of his game.
Here might lay the biggest question mark with Marvin. While his versatility can viewed as a strength, the fact he is still a bit of a tweener can not.
Ra'mon
February 15th, 2012
4:00 pm
Would greatly benefit from a year or two in college. A relatively unknown on the hoop scene until the 2002 ABCD camp where he earned all-star honors. He followed that up with a terrific performance at the Adidas Big Time Tournament, being named to the all-tournament team. As a sophomore, averaged 18 points and 11 rebounds for Bremerton High School in Bremerton, Washington. Plays summer ball for Rotary Select, an Adidas sponsored AAU team. Having establishing himself as one of the elite players in the country. Had a huge 34 point performance against Josh Smith and the Champion Atlanta Celtics in the Big Time Tourney last Summer.
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/marvin-williams
Ra'mon
February 15th, 2012
4:04 pm
Northcyde, do you realize that the Lakers only out rebounded the Hawks by FIVE rebounds last night, although they had 2 seven footers and Troy Murphy. And the Lakers were shooting 36% for the game before LD took Josh out of the game in the 3rd quarter. I’m not saying that the Hawks can’t use another defensive big, because they can. But there’s not one available right now. So in the meantime, improve your lineup by replacing someone more productive than Marvin.
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
4:09 pm
Our only shot in the playoffs is to become an elite defensive team, not an offensive one.
When we beat Miami, Horford’s athleticism kept Bosh in check at center, and he ran hard and pushed the pace/let us dictate the tempo.
When we beat Chicago: pretty sure that was with Horford whom has yet to even start rehab.
When we beat Indiana: 6′9 230 David West vs 6′8 225 Josh Smith (instead of forcing it into Horf vs 7′2 Hibbert)
When we beat Orlando: we stuck Marvin Williams on PF Ryan Anderson and Anderson still got a double double
It came down to matchup advantages not some cliched “energy” or mental slip ups. hawks are at a physical disadvantage against certain teams.
“Some teams you’ve got to be able to match up big, and some you’ve got to be able to match up small,” Sund said.
Hawks coach Larry Drew, by necessity, has gone even smaller than usual without Horford.
Rod from College Park
February 15th, 2012
4:20 pm
northcyde.
“People keep talking about offense, when the real problem is defense and rebounding. If the Hawks consistently did these two things, we could’ve won some of these games. When you’re limited offensively, you must play great defense to fuel the offense. This is why Chicago is one of the best teams in the league, even without Derrick Rose.”
The problem is not defense. The Lakers only scored 86 points. What should they have scored, in the 70’s (LOL). We are 5th in the league in point allowed. The Hawks play sound defense now, without Bibby. The problem is offense. You can not score 10 points in the 3rd and expect to win the game. Most games we have lost this year, is because we have major scoring droughts for a whole quarter of half. Maybe if you watched the games, and stopped looking at fantasy stats, you would understand this. Rebounding is a problem, and we all know that, but thats to be expected when you leading rebounder goes down for the season. If Drew used common sense, and wanted to help rebounding, he would move Josh to the 3 and start Ivan at the 4, benching your guy (Marvin Williams), but we know you would not agree with that.
flash
February 15th, 2012
4:28 pm
Like I said before, Ellis helps the offense, Udoh helps the defense.
Triangle Offense
February 15th, 2012
4:30 pm
We got to score the ball or else fail……………..
Triangle Offense
February 15th, 2012
4:30 pm
A bunch of nice guys—–Sir Charles..
O'Brien
February 15th, 2012
4:32 pm
Northcyde,
We have given up a lot of points in some of our losses (105 to the Spurs, 107 to Miami etc). But we’ve also lost games where the other team didn’t score that much.
Chicago scored 76, and we lost. Philly scored 90, and we lost. Lakers scored 86, and we lost. Even with better defense, we need to be able to score. But between LD and the players that we have, our offense is very inconsistent. But LD is offensive minded, and I think the players follow his lead.
And that’s what I like about Chicago. A lot of their players are not known for defense, but they have all bought into the HC’s system.
As for the hawks playing defense and rebounding, Zaza, Josh and Marvin can only do so much on the boards. It would help if Josh would stop taking so many jumpers, so he could be in position to rebound some misses. And we need JJ to help out as well.
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
4:49 pm
wow I just looked at the box score. Just stop there O’Brien.
Whoever said Hawks only got outrebounded by so and so needs to be slapped.
Pau Gasol 8 offensive rebounds.
Josh Smith + Marvin is completely undersized. Both best matchups are against smaller forwards.
You have to be able to go big. And Id rather go big with Josh than Marvin. No matter what way you cut it.
You might think that Josh is gonna morph into a superstar and carry Marvin to the promised land but its not happening. You cant overlook 8 offensive rebounds by someone as soft for his size as Pau Gasol.
Size matters. Period.
Smh. Marvin’s PER falling every minute against tougher matchups. Complete beneficiary of others and riding Josh’s and Joe’s coattails too long. Now its just dragging us down.
Leuer + Gooden for Hinrich or Marvin. As soon as Milwaukee decides to tank. Which is pretty much what the season depends on. Or maybe they’d do that right away.
Rod from College Park
February 15th, 2012
4:50 pm
“Plays summer ball for Rotary Select, an Adidas sponsored AAU team. Having establishing himself as one of the elite players in the country. Had a huge 34 point performance against Josh Smith and the Champion Atlanta Celtics in the Big Time Tourney last Summer.”
First of all Ra’mon, have you ever been to an AAU game, or watch AAU ball? You do realize who else was on Josh’s AAU team dont you? Dwight Howard and Randolph Morris were on that team. Did Marvin dunk over Dwight? Did he tricky dribble past Josh, go to the hole, and do a 360 windmill dunk on Dwight? Did he score all of his points with Josh Smith covering him? You do know that AAU is like summer league. Teams are stacked, little defense is played, and guys routinely score 40 points in a game. Really should not read much into that. A summer league game which Josh was a junior does not have any scouts thinking Marvin should be drafted #2 (LOL). After all Josh was not drafted that high remember. You did notice it said Josh Smith and the CHAMPION Atlanta Celtics. So based on your logic, I should assume that Josh is an NBA CHAMPION since his AAU was a champion.
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
4:51 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6snx6xt
HInrich has been riding coattails of our stars as well. He can kick rocks as well. Hawks win 6 games with this trade and benching Marvin.
Time to cut dead weight. Gooden + Leuer for either of Hinrich’s expiring or Marvin.
Sautee
February 15th, 2012
4:54 pm
“More importantly, Leuer continues to extend his range out beyond the college three point line. After improving from 29.6% as a sophomore to 39.1% from three point range last season, Leuer has continued to build upon that part of his game. Now taking 4.6 three point attempts per game, he is converting at an extremely efficient 44.8% this season. Leuer wastes little motion on catch and shoots, and does a good job making a quick decision before the defense has time to recover. His ability to translate this part of his game is an absolute key in becoming a contributor at the next level.”
LMFAO. Leuer has taken a whopping FIVE three point shots. Is THAT a “stretch forward”?
And this guy wants us to trade for him and make him a starter based on what, 345 minutes of NBA game time? And let’s not forget his Draft Express profile. Why that’s worth giving him a starter’s job all by itself!
GFOH with that junk. Come back when he’s an actual contributor.
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
4:54 pm
Rod from CP we all know he can only score in 1 of 4 ways listed by draftexpress.
Astro Joe
February 15th, 2012
4:55 pm
Joe in the 3-point contest? Bad idea. Josh would be far more entertaining in that contest.
Rod from College Park
February 15th, 2012
4:59 pm
“Rod from CP we all know he can only score in 1 of 4 ways listed by draftexpress.”
Exactly. LOL
NUNNA!!
February 15th, 2012
5:07 pm
What 2 players would Orlando want for Dwight Howard??
I see 3 or 4 players,along with a 1st rounder or 2..
Maybe a Horford (if healthy)along with Josh..And thats it..
You think they are gonna want Marvin?
Joe Contract Johnson?
Or even LD?
How about if we throw in Twin?They may want him whenever they play us again with Dwight on our team..
Admiral Ackbar
February 15th, 2012
5:18 pm
Looks like Joe Johnson is reppin’ the Hawks at AllStar weekend in the 3 point shooting contest.
ITS A TRAP!!!!!!
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
5:19 pm
Sautee don’t be an idiot. Leuer doesnt shoot 3s because Milwaukee doesnt have any tweeners like Josh Smith to play inside.
MIL wants Leuer to play inside. ATL wants Smith inside and wants a big man like Leuer outside.
Here’s one of Leuer’s 3s by the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW7r0f2mCJU
As if 3s are the only way he can be better than Marvin. Jason Collins took Marvin’s williams place and Smith was shifted to SF for the playoffs.
Wrap this Marvin experiment up. Hes a jumpshooting big man who cant create against anyone and cant defend or rebound against most other big men we see in the playoffs.
Classic underachiever. And the reason is this.
SMALL BALL MATCHUPS COME INTO PLAY
Jason Terry vs Joe Johnson vs Kobe Bryant vs Dwyane Wade
Shawn Marion vs Josh Smith vs Ron Artest vs Lebron James
Dirk Nowitzki vs Marvin Williams vs Pau Gasol vs Chris Bosh
Now if you want to see a STRETCH POWER forward. Check out Leuer’s 9 for 11 performance against the Bulls.
Josh Smith has no jumper and gets locked up by size. Lavoy Allen anyone. Get off your fake high horse Sautee.
small ball Hawks havent won anything.
Admiral Ackbar
February 15th, 2012
5:22 pm
As much as you guys take me seriously, I can’t take Smith.Lueur.Bogut seriously…
ITS A TRAP!!!!
O'Brien
February 15th, 2012
5:24 pm
pointguardslim,
If Leuer can’t get consistent minutes on a Bucks team that is not very good, what makes you think he deserves minutes on the Hawks team?
O'Brien
February 15th, 2012
5:25 pm
AJ,
Agreed. JJ in the 3-pt contest is a bad idea. But watch him turn around and win it lol.
E43
February 15th, 2012
5:30 pm
“absurd. those are two great pg’s regardless of system or coach.”
Paul and Williams were allowed to dominate the ball and make plays.It’s that same domination of the ball that they wont win a championship as the MVP of their respective teams. Theyre flashy and their stats look sexy on paper. The real problems come deep in the playoffs when the rotation shortens further and bigs get even more talented. That big play is the reason Kerr, Fisher, and Parker have won multiple championships with the same team. Their teams were designed to play well in the regular season as well as the playoffs. Kerr, Parker and Fisher at least are trusted to run the offense on a fastbreak. That doesn’t happen on a team with Joe Johnson coached by a guy like Woody. There was no system. It was predetermined that Joe was going to dominate the ball and rookies were likely to be benched even when it was clear the system/lack of system didnt make things easier for them. The ball has to be put in their hands before you even talk about how great those two clowns are. Your would be a liar if you can sit there and tell me that you knew all along that Acie Law was going to have a 2 assist average and less then 5PPG average.
KevinM
February 15th, 2012
5:38 pm
Haha, Kornheiser just called Bibby ‘decaying’….
From being in his prime last year to decaying this year….the wheels just fell off fast huh?
Sautee
February 15th, 2012
5:43 pm
“Get off your fake high horse Sautee.”
Hah. That would imply that I actually CARED about your goofy idea. That’s not one of my faults, though I have plenty. And if I’m such an idiot, I guess I’m in there with Coach Skiles who only chooses to play Jon Leuer 13 minutes / game, but you’d make him a starter. OK, I’ll stay with the idiots.
You’ll get over the Leuer thing, just like you got over the Thabeet thing, and the Jordan Hill thing, and the Bogut thing. These things have a short shelf life with you.
So who follows Leuer in the pointguardslim Pantheon of Stupid Trade Ideas? LMFAO
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
5:43 pm
“If Leuer can’t get consistent minutes on a Bucks team that is not very good, what makes you think he deserves minutes on the Hawks team?”
Why do people keep asking this? Deserves? Why did Jason Collins deserve minutes over Marvin last year? I keep asking and no one answers me.
Leuer is an average defender like Kevin Love but he isn’t a good power player like Kevin Love. He is just a knockdown gunner. But Bucks have too many outside shooters so he hasnt been permitted to stay outside yet.
We have Josh Smith and Joe Johnson who can penetrate and post up inside. Its different.
I don’t know why Marvin gets a pass, simply for being drafted to the right team.
Or Vlad. You guys think if LD had Vlad or Leuer on the bench he’d have picked Vlad over Leuer to play PF/C yesterday?
And Marvin was replaced with Vlad against the Lakers down the stretch. Vlad “deserves” to play on the Hawks but Leuer doesnt….
How about this. The Hawks dont “deserve” to go far in the playoffs, because they keep thinking Marvin “deserves” $38 mil and a starting spot rather than lucked into meeting the bare requirement the Hawks needed at the time. A big shooter. Yet he’s not big enough and a 1 dimensional shooter. Only on the Hawks.
Grandad
February 15th, 2012
5:43 pm
Evaluating Our [current] Big Three: 1st in a ‘`3`’ part series:
Part 1. ‘`No-J`’
Josh is over-rated by some on this board who seem to …
“adorer de ballon roller d’or`’ ;
become overly infatuated with a singular player on
-our team-
to the point of adulation.
I like all our guys, but, attempt to see them objectively;
perhaps to a point of becoming jaded.
But, some of you must admit to viewing through ‘`rose colored`’ glasses.
_____________________________________________
Josh:
* the most consistent yet predictably unpredictable, unstable,
contradictory, brilliantly talented, incongruous, irreconcilable,
tempermental, willful, supercilious, illogical, underrated,
overhyped, unselfish, schizophrenic paradoxical player,
who is a genuinely good kid and and teammate;
but would rival my good friend Ditch~Weed for Erraticism.
** I wish LD would move him to the [2] *(on offense)*
Reasoning; I want Josh to play just like Willie Green on Offense.
(moving w/o the ball / catch & shoot)
Think about it.
_____________________________________________
side note:
V-Rad; “should play with starters” … Co-Sign !!
from an earlier post / apologies to whomever;
as I cannot remember who to credit for the post.
doc
February 15th, 2012
5:46 pm
aj is a very cruel man when he wants to be.
is it time to talk braves yet aj?
ok, what did folks expect? come on, some folks here have been delerious thinking that a team without crawford and al that struggled to be better than .500 last year would somehow soar finally with castaways. that made us only a better team agains other the bad teams fluff and as sir charles says there are many and we played them all the first three weeks of the season.
we are now playing just as anyone should expect with the loss of a player that could avg 14 and 9 and give up another double digit scorer. did we really expect that mcgrady, vlad, pargo and green could manufacture that those 30 points a game? did we expect that osh and jj would fill that big a void? plus we are now hurting with zaza playing without a backup as he is a very good backup and it weakens us when their subs come in instead of being a strength. add it up and weep the center position is much inferior this year numbers wise and the numbers end up winning games not per. it is why we can play good defense and end up on the short end of the total.
the jamal and al haters if they are hawks fans wanting to win games rather than salve and soothe their out sized egos are seeing their value now, learning their lessons, getting their whipping. it never was going to be for jamal, there is really no way we were going to make the salary needs so it was a given we would fall further in the pecking order from the heights of 09 season where we were 3rd. without al we will fall further. no way to think otherwise or there are bets to be lost in vegas.
we have done nothing to get better in spite of the glorification of the signings that truly pale to our superiors. there is a ceiling here that we can see and see clearer now, or at least some of us, maybe not owners yet. optimist vs realist vs pessimist? i’ll take the pragmatic road always.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 15th, 2012
5:50 pm
“If you’re an opposing head coach and you see a stat like “Hawks are 16-1 when Joe scores more than 20″, what do you and your coaching staff do with that data point?”
If they are smart, they will disregard that stat because it is useless.
The Hawks are 7-0 when Josh scores 20 points, and 4-2 when Teague scores 20 points. Teams are generally going to succeed when their best players are scoring points.
Ra'mon
February 15th, 2012
5:50 pm
Grandad, you were looking through Rose Colored glasses at Alex Ajinca for over 3-4 seasons. Actually, with the exception of Gasol, I don’t remember the last player you suggested the Hawks acquire, who’s been remarkably successful since you recommending them. And almost each of the players you’ve lobbied for, have been offensive players, with out defense being a strength of theirs. In fact, just a couple of weeks ago, you were saying LD is doing a great job this season.
Ra'mon
February 15th, 2012
5:51 pm
Meant 2 seasons
honest_abe
February 15th, 2012
5:52 pm
e43 – dude you’re rambling a whole bunch of incoherent mess. bottom line cp3 and dwill are great players! top 5 in their position regardless of system. they haven’t won a championship because they’ve yet to be on a great team. as for acie law i was never a fan. just go back and read sekou’s blogs from yesteryear.