Atlanta Hawks: Lakers 86, Hawks 78
Los Angeles–The Hawks held the Lakers to 86 points on 84 shots, had 11 turnovers to L.A’s 13, shot 14 free throws (.16 rate) to the Lakers’ nine (.11 rate) and collected 17 of the Lakers’ 47 misses. They lost because they shot 34.4 percent while missing 12 of 20 shots at the rim and botching at least six transition chances; couldn’t stop Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol in the paint early, and saw the Lakers scored 15 points off those 11 turnovers.
- “I don’t know how many layups we missed,” Larry Drew said. “We missed a ton of point-blank shots. We turned the ball over at crucial times, too. Defensively I thought we were pretty much right there on the money but we just couldn’t buy a shot.”
- The Hawks scored just 10 points in the second quarter but it wasn’t just because they were settling for Js. Yes, they missed all seven 3-point attempts in the period but they also missed seven consecutive layup attempts. “We got to the rim,” Jeff Teague said. “That’s what we wanted to do. But we couldn’t finish.”
- No doubt the Lakers’ length had something to do with Atlanta missing so many at close range. The Hawks had seven shots blocked, including two of the layup attempts, and you could see them peeking for defenders when they drove to the basket. “We just have to have more focus when we are going to the rim,” Drew said. “You can’t be concerned about them blocking the shots or changing them.”
- I said the Hawks should shoot more 3s and of course they go out and miss 20 of 27 attempts, including 13 of 16 tries after the first quarter. Still, that’s an effective field-goal percentage of 38.3 compared to 38 percent on 2s (40 percent at the rim) and 64 percent on free throws. The Hawks couldn’t make anything.
- “It wasn’t a great shooting night,” Joe Johnson said. “But you can make up for that with effort and defense. I think our defense was pretty good tonight but we missed a lot of easy shots.”
- The Hawks trailed just 59-51 entering the fourth. The Lakers got some separation behind Steve Blake, Matt Barnes and Andrew Goudelock. Drew waited until the official timeout at 8:04 to put Johnson and Josh Smith back in with Atlanta down 69-57.
- “I was thinking about the back-to-back,” Drew said. “I wanted to go back with the starters and still make a push but I can’t drive them into the ground when we have a back-to-back. I thought the bench guys gave us some good minutes.”
- Vladimir Radmanovic’s 3 got the Hawks within 69-60 but Smith threw the ball away. After the Lakers scored on a second chance, Joe made a J but Blake shook free from Teague for a 3, Joe carried the ball for a turnover, and Gasol made a J. That was the last gasp for the Hawks.
- After Zaza Pachulia couldn’t keep Bynum from deep post position, Drew went to Erick Dampier. Except Drew said that’s not why he did it. “I was told [Zaza] had two fouls,” Drew said. “But they gave the foul to Joe. They said they changed it.”
- As it turned out, Dampier was pretty effective at making forcing Bynum to catch the ball away from the basket. Considering his lack of conditioning and mobility, he did well to play 16 minutes and get four rebounds. But his teammates should know that they can’t whip passes to those hands. “He did pretty good,” Josh said. “He played pretty good defense on Bynum. He missed a couple of chip tip ins. We was in a drought.”
- Zaza said he knew he only had one foul but it ended up working out for him, too. “I watched what [Dampier] did to [Bynun] and so in the second half I went out and did the same,” he said. Bynum overpowered Zaza a couple times but Zaza effectively pushed, cajoled and harassed him after halftime.
- In 15 second-half minutes, Josh was 1 for 7 with four rebounds and three assists. In the first half, he was 6 for 11 with five rebounds in 17 minutes. The problems were familiar: missed jumpers (3 of 9 outside of the paint) and untimely turnovers. There came a point where it looked as if he was no longer interested in venturing inside against the Lakers’ timber.
- Josh did a pretty good job bothering Gasol’s attempts around the basket. It’s no coincidence that the Lakers’ perimeter players started attacking the paint after he went to the bench in the third quarter.
- Joe never did assert himself as a scorer when the Hawks needed it. This wasn’t Milwaukee or Detroit. He did have five of the team’s 14 assists against two turnovers. “I got to where I wanted to get on the floor,” Joe said. “I missed a lot of easy shots for myself. I feel I could have made a lot more plays getting guys wide open shots.”
- Joe became the seventh player in Hawks franchise history to score at least 10,000 points. “It is what it is,” he said. “Maybe if we could have got a win it would feel a lot better. My main focus right now is for us to try to get the rest of these games on the road.”
- Zaza and Josh (nine rebounds each) got some help on the boards: Marvin Williams, Tracy McGrady and Vlad Rad had six each.
- Vlad Rad, back in his old building, made three 3-pointers for the first time since Jan. 9, which also is the last time he had as many as six attempts. T-Mac was driving to score, missing and looking for calls. Marvin missed a few good looks.
- With Dampier getting minutes at center and Vlad Rad at the four, Ivan Johnson got a DNP-CD.
- Teague’s 6-for-16 shooting included five misses at the rim and also a couple botched runners. He never got out of scoring mode and finished with two assists. The Hawks’ starting point guard wasn’t leading them on a night the offense was often aimless.
- Kobe Bryant scored 10 points on 18 shots with Joe plus help keeping him in check save for a burst in the third quarter.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
360 comments Add your comment
Astro Joe
February 15th, 2012
11:22 am
Melvin, a one loss sample? Really, we’re supposed to draw conclusions after every game? No thanks, but feel free to wax poetic with a single data point.
Another GM
February 15th, 2012
11:24 am
Enough with the excuses for this team, LD.
honest_abe
February 15th, 2012
11:25 am
the point on marvin is that he couldn’t even start in college. if a guy can’t start in college (i don’t care how many seniors were on that team) he doesn’t deserve to be a freaking #2 overall pick. a “can’t miss” talent starts their freshmen year. besides his stats were sub par. he played against collegiate 2nd stringers. just awful. marvin isn’t nearly as bad as some paint him to be i just don’t see the justification for somehow seeing him as a future super star. he’s always been clumsy.
darrell starks
February 15th, 2012
11:28 am
This was a tough game for the Hawks with being undersize team against 2 giants, very difficult for Josh going against guys 4inches talling than him, but he played inside last night was nice to see, Joe and Teague game was off, poor Marvin it’s unbelievable he is playing in the NBA, Zaza and Dampier played okay.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Melvin
February 15th, 2012
11:30 am
Astro,
Comeon, there’s a connection between Hawks losses and when their Alpha Dog don’t score at least 20pts?
Rod from College Park
February 15th, 2012
11:30 am
Ra’mon,
I for one can promise you that I almost put a hole in my TV when I heard the name Marvin Williams. I was a very big ACC fan, and watched many ACC games, and knew Marvin Williams would not be a star. I thought he would be much better than he is know, but I knew he was not a star. I saw him get abused, and outmatched physically in both games against Georgia Tech by Ismail Muhammed. He did not start at Carolina for a reason, he was not good enough to start over Jawad Williams or Rashard McCants, and Carolina has never had a problem starting exceptional freshman. He was good off the bench which is the way he should be used now.
Marvin was thought to be the next wave of 6′10 guys who would be dominant in the NBA. He was never thought to be a Grant Hill type. I remember numerous comparison to Kevin Garnett, and at the time Dirk started playing well so this wave of guys who were 7 footers, who could shoot was the new in thing. Marvin was 6′9 but had a 7′3 wingspan, and many thought he would continue to grow. I knew a scout who worked for the Hawks at the time, and he said that Marvin never missed a jumper in his Hawks workout. He worked out by himself and had no one guarding him. The problem is, there is no way for me, as a person who played the game at a high level, and have seen many great players to understand how you can have Marvin Williams, Chris Paul, and Derron Williams work out for your organization, and you explain to me how Marvin stood out more than the other two guys. First of all Marvin is clumsy, and non coordinated. He can’t handle the ball fluently, and he is not physically strong. He is not a physical freak like Josh is, he has the measurables, but is not really athletic. There are a lot of guys who look good whn they come in the gym, and before the game, but can’t play when the game starts. He is one of them. Hell, if you really were stuck on drafting a small forward, all you had to do was work out Marvin, and bring in the next best SF in that draft, Danny Granger, and the difference in skill would have been obvious. Danny Granger was his conference MVP, and went nuts in the NCAA tournament. He was more like Grant Hill, than Marvin. Marvin never showed or had any ball handling ability, and was never seen playing that point forward position. He was a shooter, who was supposed to grow a little more, get stronger and develop into a 7 foot stretch 4 who would be a dominant scorer. We all know the rest. IT WAS A TERRIBLE PICK.
darrell starks
February 15th, 2012
11:32 am
We need some tough reporters in Hawks locker room asking tough ? ATL is consider soft when it come to reporters.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Astro Joe
February 15th, 2012
11:32 am
I like TMac more than I thought I would. I’m speaking more in terms of his personality, his on-court performance has been fairly inconsistent due to the issues below. But I appreciate his candor and his determination to find a way despite some physical issues.
McGrady is the most famous casualty of microfracture knee surgery, when the doctors create tiny fractures in the joint in hopes of creating a sounder base. His back is often in rebellion, too. But, really, he doesn’t hurt very much. The injury pirates have raided McGrady’s body and fled. “I surprise myself sometimes,” he said Tuesday, at the Hawks’ shootaround at Westchester High. “I’m only 32 years old. It’s not like all my athleticism is gone. “I still have skills and still can play. It’s just that your mind tells you can do something, but your body doesn’t always let you.” Orange County Register
Astro Joe
February 15th, 2012
11:39 am
Melvin, I agree. I just think that the Hawks need to find a way to win when he doesn’t score 20, right? I’m not sure that we can expect Joe to score 20 when he is the single focus of very good defensive clubs. Seemingly, that focus should allow others to pick up the slack… kind of like if a WR is doubled on one side of the field, the other receiver should be doing more than usual.
Ra'mon
February 15th, 2012
11:47 am
I wonder if Sac would take Horford for Evans.
Melvin
February 15th, 2012
11:49 am
honest_abe,
Give Marvin’s agent credit, he over inflated Marvin abilities. Marvin reminds me of a NFL prospect that runs a great 40 yard dash or bench press 225 over 30 times at the combine. Scouts see that and think that player will excel at the pro level. Then coin that player as having “great upside” so he’s then drafted on potential instead of college production and game tape. Marvin is that type of guy. Marvin probably excels during individual workouts with his smooth jump shot, decent lateral quickness/ball handling and good leaping ability for a guy his size. Therefore, he was label as the guy with the most upside in his draft class once he develops. Now we all know the cons of these types of workouts. Had Marvin workout against other prospects, the hawks should have seen his clumsiness, weak handles and lack of ability to create his own shots. Then just maybe they would have chosen Paul or Deron.
jhawk
February 15th, 2012
11:51 am
personally I think they should ban Josh from shooting anything except long 2’s and 3 pointers. They would win every game cause he never misses from out there. You know the guy is making millions or I would say he must be really really dumb to just keep chucking and chucking and chucking. If he would work on his free throws as much as he says he works on the long shot he could add 10 ppg to his average.
richbrave
February 15th, 2012
11:53 am
Where’s Big Ray, doc and DrMaryB when you need them? BTW, doc, has my man J-CRIT gotten any jail time for the thuggery he pulled on the left coast?
richbrave
February 15th, 2012
11:56 am
Hate seeing all the negative vibes floating around the HAWKS blog once again. Seems like old times when HORFORD, CHILDRESS, WILLIAMS, and JOSH SMITH were newbies before JJ arrived.
Melvin
February 15th, 2012
11:57 am
Joe,
I know there will be games when Joe doesn’t have it but it has been too many games against quality opponents when he fells to score 20 or more. Heck, which top scorer on their team doesn’t get double team or single focus by the opposing team. DRose, Durant, Kobe, Lebron, Dwight and many others all face double teams and still score their avg on a nightly basis. No exception will be given to Joe, especially when he’s the highest paid player on the team.
flash
February 15th, 2012
11:58 am
Ra’mon,
Please explain your thinking on (injured) Horford for Evans? Who’s minutes does Evans take and why would the Hawks give up Horford when they need more size not less? Who runs the point for Sac? 5′8″ Isiah Thomas?
darrell starks
February 15th, 2012
11:59 am
I would like for coach LD make line up change and move Josh to the 3, so the Hawks can starte having some advantage on the court specially at the 3 with josh getting the ball down low against guys much smaller than him.
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, JOSH, IVAN, ZAZA
BENCH PARGO, GREEN, TMAC, MARVIN, DAMPIER
RESERVE HINRICH, VLAD, STACK
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Melvin
February 15th, 2012
11:59 am
richbrave,
JJ arrived before Horford.
Rod from College Park
February 15th, 2012
11:59 am
Ra’mon
“O’B, its at http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chris-Paul-14/ . Paul’s long list of weaknesses, much longer than Marvin’s at the time.”
There was no long list of weaknesses listed for Chris Paul. The many things the listed were all things that any NBA scout should be able to decipher.
1. He was undersized (So was Allen Iverson, Isiah Thomas, Steve Nash, Tony Parker…..)
2. He was not a great defender (Neither were the guys listed above)
3. He might take a cheap shot. (So what!!!!)
It also said this:
Paul is generally considered the number one point guard in the 2005 draft, and it isn’t too hard to see why. There really isn’t anything he doesn’t do well, and his ability to break people down off the dribble is nothing short of spectacular. Unless something drastic happens, he’s a top selection on draft night – probably top 3.
While Marvin’s said this:
“Offensively, Marvin has only shown that he can score in one of four ways: open stand still jumpshots, lay-ups / dunks on fast breaks, put-backs and free throws. Marvin hasn’t shown he has the ability to put the ball on the floor and create his own shot consistently, whether it’s driving around a defender to get all the way to the rim or merely shooting off the dribble. If Marvin is going to be a great small forward in the NBA he will need to develop this part of his game. Also, Marvin has shown no post moves outside of trying to overpower his opponents with a drop-step toward the basket. When surrounded by defenders in the paint Marvin often gets his shot blocked because he has yet to show a jump hook, a fadeaway or an up-and-under move. In fact, Marvin’s best offensive move in the paint is trying to get to the free throw line. He will not be able to draw fouls easily against more experienced defenders. If Marvin is going to be a great power forward in the NBA he will need to develop this part of his game.
Defensively, Marvin still needs to improve his footwork to be able to guard quicker players on the perimeter and he needs to add some strength to guard some of the stronger players in the post. He also needs to improve his defensive communication, especially on pick and roll situations. While Marvin has the tools to be a good shotblocker we have yet to see it from him. Per minutes played, he was only equal to Jawad Williams and slightly behind Rashad McCants in this aspect of the game.
Here might lay the biggest question mark with Marvin. While his versatility can viewed as a strength, the fact he is still a bit of a tweener can not. Is he going to primarily play small forward or power forward in the NBA? Can he become great at one of the forward spots or will he merely be good at both? That’s the tough part about Marvin. At this point in his career it’s almost impossible to project just what kind of player he is going to be or what position he will end up playing the most.”
Any scout worth a grain of salt should have really questioned a guy his size, with his wingspan who had no postgame, and also could not handle the ball. The scouting report was dead on, as Marvin is the exact same player today, as he was then. He can hit a jumpshot, make a dunk (if he does not fall first), get to the line, or get a put back. That’s it. He has not become strong enough to play the 4, and he can’t defend either. IT WAS A TERRIBLE PICK.
richbrave
February 15th, 2012
12:00 pm
HORFORD to the WIZZIES would be nice, but the only EVANS they’ve got to return in MO, oh and ROGER MASON Jr. MASON has been masquerading as an NBA player in a WASHINGTON uni so far this season..
richbrave
February 15th, 2012
12:02 pm
Melvin:
Sorry, I thought The fab four were all in place before he arrived.
darrell starks
February 15th, 2012
12:02 pm
Coach LD must starte getting Joe the ball more in the post instead of far away from basket, to many jumshots from the Hawks, must score more in the paint.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E43
February 15th, 2012
12:05 pm
Joe Johnson is the only guy on the team that can score from anywhere on the court on any given day. The hawks problem in my opinion is that they dont get the C in the paint early enough. It’s not like we’re stuck with Joel Anthony at the C. I think that we can get a bucket or a foul inside with Zaza. There’s no reason whey he shouldn’t be able to do it sooner rather than later.
Joe and Teague can get their own points very easily throughout the game. That’s why I think that Joe should be the #3 scoring option behind Zaza and Josh during early possessions. I think that a big reason that the hawks need Joe to survive so much is because they depend so much on defensive minded player Josh Smith to get to the paint/break and he ends up running out of ideas by the time the half is over. I’d rather have Zaza and Josh working early because it gives Marvin less attention and less pressure because the hawks would have used a bigger variety of sets and they can fall back on Joe to get to his own outside the offense if things are not working out.
darrell starks
February 15th, 2012
12:05 pm
Teague must be aggressive and attack the basket at all time, this what will make Teague top tier PG.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bigdave
February 15th, 2012
12:07 pm
great commentary from Ra’mon.. Rod, Melvin, and Stro Joe.. all good points.
“Melvin, I agree. I just think that the Hawks need to find a way to win when he doesn’t score 20, right? I’m not sure that we can expect Joe to score 20 when he is the single focus of very good defensive clubs. Seemingly, that focus should allow others to pick up the slack… kind of like if a WR is doubled on one side of the field, the other receiver should be doing more than usual.”
i think the bottom line is Joe needs to be more aggressive. when teams send that double or phantom double at Joe they’ve won. there is a reason why coaches vote him an all star. they know he will make the correct basketball play, which takes shots away from your best scorer. Joe has to simply play quicker, make your move upon receiving the ball. whenever Joe is aggressive, you never see the Hawks playing w/ little effort. they still feed off of their “leader”, as Josh calls him, going out and competing on offense.
“My main focus right now is for us to try to get the rest of these games on the road.” we’ll see what that means to Joe.. going out there and being a non factor, or forcing the issue.
richbrave
February 15th, 2012
12:11 pm
Geeze, almost forgot SHELDON WILLIAMS. Which was worse WILLIAMS or WILLIAMS? Heh!
prison mike
February 15th, 2012
12:14 pm
Already looking forward to the draft. For argument’s sake the hawks make the playoffs and get the 18th pick…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34GQdy-WD54
Not the big we need but the burden of Duck will start to fadeaway.
Rod from College Park
February 15th, 2012
12:26 pm
Astro Joe,
“Joe isn’t the kind of player who can score 20-25 points against double teams every night. So while we’d like to just say that should happen because of his contract, it ain’t happening. In order for the TEAM to win, at least 2 other players have to step up as viable half-court scorers. I don’t care what their draft status was, their current salary, which sneaker they wear or the type of car they drive… beating a good team with a single half-court consistent threat is next to impossible. Even the future HOFer Kobe can’t accomplish that game after game.”
First time we have agreed in a long time. No matter how much we try to make Josh that guy, he is not a scorer. If we keep depending on Josh to be our #1 offensive option, we are done. Teague can not score if you play off of him either. He has been pretty good at hitting 3’s, but he will not shoot a large number of them because Drew will pull him once he starts missing. We do not have that other guy on our roster. This is one reason that I harp on Jamal so much now. It’s not that I think Jamal is the greatest thing since sliced bread, its that as this team is constucted, unless you trade for Dwight Howard, or can get a guy at the 3 like Danny Granger, we need another scorer. Jamal is one of the few guys in the league, along with JR Smith, and James Harden, who can come of the bench and score. I thought TMac would be able to be that guy, but I just don’t see it. We need another scorer who plays major minutes on this team to even have a chance in the playoffs, that’s if we even make it.
Rusty
February 15th, 2012
12:27 pm
If Joe would take his shots or drive to the basket off of passes he would have it much easier. Some thing in his head makes him think that he is superman. He tries to go iso all of the time dribbling like a fool eating up cloak winding up having 3people on him then having to force poor shots or passing the ball to someone like Josh on the perimeter with time running out .I had hoped that with JT starting he wouldn’t do that.it’s like he can’t help himself.He hurts him self & the team.Josh looks at this & then he tries to do it,thinking this the only way he will get his shots.it’s hard for a ROOKIE like JT to come &run the offense. People say look at Jeff he don’t get enough assists.I don’t know how many assists guys like zaza & Marvin take away from him with their weak hands.JT looks to pass first ,LD put that into his head. It is hard for any pg when you have a guy like JJ trying to run the offense.LD just let’s everybody do what they want but is always threatening to take JT’ min away.
BILLY KNIGHT
February 15th, 2012
12:33 pm
richbrave Im tired of this BS.
BILLY KNIGHT
February 15th, 2012
12:35 pm
Okay richbrave what player would you draft Crime dog or Marvin ?
LT
February 15th, 2012
12:35 pm
“LD has lost his team. A new coach is desperately needed”
AGREE
doc
February 15th, 2012
12:36 pm
richie, prob in pre-trial proceedings.
wiz suffering? seems like days of old here in atl though plenty of suffering here and many more contributors to the suffering. as slim pointed out 4 egregious bk/basg blunders only if one had been done right we would be a better and more stable franchise.
Rusty
February 15th, 2012
12:37 pm
And everyone in the NBA knows that about Joe. They know that when they throw the triple team on him that he will not quickly look for the open man,he will continue to dribble & eat the cloak up
Rusty
February 15th, 2012
12:39 pm
Fire LD now!
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
12:42 pm
2008 WCSF Game 7 – Spurs @ Hornets CP3
——–
Joe,Josh,Al
2008 ECSF Game 6 – Bulls@ Hawks
Game 7> Game 6
I can’t believe you implied you’d rather have this team than have drafted CP3.
CP3, Joe,Josh, then all we’d need is a STRETCH 4 and a CENTER. Both of which couldve been had with our assets at the time. Both of Which we would have had by now.
Are you insane. Wasted how many years pursuing Jamal Crawfords and Bibby’s & Teague is still yet to learn the position.
The Hawks would have had several Finals appearances by now, had they not COMPLETELY fucced up that pick. My Goodness.
E43
February 15th, 2012
12:44 pm
Chris Paul and Deron Williams had zero chance of being what they are today if they were drafted by the Hawks. Mike Woodson never ran away from that Iso heavy offense when Acie Law was here. same thing happened with Bibby who by the way watched his assist totals drop. All Bibby did most of the time was direct traffic and provide spacing under Mike Woodson. The real mistake was walking out of the 2004 draft without a C and I’m sure the initial plan regardless of what anyone says involved Dwight Howard. The Hawks probably settled for Childres when Dwight was off the board because the best center after him turns out to be Biedrins.
Chris Paul and Deron Williams would have had nothing to offer the Hawks because the system would never have let them showcase all their abilities.
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
12:51 pm
Yeah and just catching highlights of the game. I’ll try to watch more but Leuer > Radmanovic.
Lol at whomever said Leuer was a bum and Vlad is the same thing. 6′11 Leuer PF/C with range. 6′10 Vlad Soft Forward. Lol at him playing center. Lots of playing time for Marvin so he could shoot his 3s.
Because Lord knows Marvin shooting 3s consistently overcome his lack of basketball skill and Duck like wingspan and coordination.
Get what you asked for I guess. #Hawks
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
1:06 pm
This is something that NBA teams will probably look into, though it’s hard to see a team passing on Paul because of personality issues. He is too dynamic a presence on the floor.
Outlook
Paul is generally considered the number one point guard in the 2005 draft, and it isn’t too hard to see why. There really isn’t anything he doesn’t do well, and his ability to break people down off the dribble is nothing short of spectacular. Unless something drastic happens, he’s a top selection on draft night – probably top 3.
Comments
While we have Tony Parker down here as a worst-case, that probably isn’t very fair to Parker, who would put up bigger numbers if he wasn’t running the show in San Antonio.
From DraftExpress.com
—-
Also in his weaknesses is that he’s 6′0. He’s actually 6′1 in shoes. Also, for that Hodge incident, his weaknesses is listed as “too competitive”.
All I can say is “very sad”.
KevinM
February 15th, 2012
1:07 pm
The rule of thumb going forward for any draft in the future: Do not draft a guy whose last name is Williams! It is nothing but a disaster!
Marvin/Sheldon/Jay or Jason…..tough name to conquer! And yes, Deron probably would have turned into Marcus WIlliams if we had drafted him.
We are who we are now…now its time to correct what we’ve done wrong.
Will Sund make a trade this year? In his last year, he is going to stand pat? For someone in the last year of his contract, he sure appears comfortable to not shake things up. I think he has this job as long as he wants it, and that is just sad to think about.
His role with the Hawks: He is responsible for basketball operations of the Atlanta Hawks, including coaching, player personnel, contract negotiations and salary cap management.
Folks, I think we have our problem diagnosed, but we can’t do anything about it.
honest_abe
February 15th, 2012
1:09 pm
“Chris Paul and Deron Williams would have had nothing to offer the Hawks because the system would never have let them showcase all their abilities”
absurd. those are two great pg’s regardless of system or coach.
aj: i like your idea of teague coming off the bench. makes a whole lot of sense to me. he obviously can’t dominate the ball with the first team so let him run things with the second unit.
pointguardslim
February 15th, 2012
1:11 pm
Rod from College Park
“Offensively, Marvin has only shown that he can score in one of four ways: open stand still jumpshots, lay-ups / dunks on fast breaks, put-backs and free throws. Marvin hasn’t shown he has the ability to put the ball on the floor and create his own shot consistently, whether it’s driving around a defender to get all the way to the rim or merely shooting off the dribble. If Marvin is going to be a great small forward in the NBA he will need to develop this part of his game. Also, Marvin has shown no post moves outside of trying to overpower his opponents with a drop-step toward the basket. When surrounded by defenders in the paint Marvin often gets his shot blocked because he has yet to show a jump hook, a fadeaway or an up-and-under move. In fact, Marvin’s best offensive move in the paint is trying to get to the free throw line. He will not be able to draw fouls easily against more experienced defenders. If Marvin is going to be a great power forward in the NBA he will need to develop this part of his game.
Defensively, Marvin still needs to improve his footwork to be able to guard quicker players on the perimeter and he needs to add some strength to guard some of the stronger players in the post. He also needs to improve his defensive communication, especially on pick and roll situations. While Marvin has the tools to be a good shotblocker we have yet to see it from him. Per minutes played, he was only equal to Jawad Williams and slightly behind Rashad McCants in this aspect of the game.
Here might lay the biggest question mark with Marvin. While his versatility can viewed as a strength, the fact he is still a bit of a tweener can not. Is he going to primarily play small forward or power forward in the NBA? Can he become great at one of the forward spots or will he merely be good at both? That’s the tough part about Marvin. At this point in his career it’s almost impossible to project just what kind of player he is going to be or what position he will end up playing the most.”
Any scout worth a grain of salt should have really questioned a guy his size, with his wingspan who had no postgame, and also could not handle the ball. The scouting report was dead on, as Marvin is the exact same player today, as he was then. He can hit a jumpshot, make a dunk (if he does not fall first), get to the line, or get a put back. That’s it. He has not become strong enough to play the 4, and he can’t defend either. IT WAS A TERRIBLE PICK.
———-
My jaw literally dropped. That scouting reports dead-on. How could they be so accurate and we ended up looking like fools? Reading that report was like looking into the past present and future all at once.
Useless
O'Brien
February 15th, 2012
1:16 pm
Rod,
Co-sign. Are there any ‘star’ NBA players that did not start for their college team? And the fact that Marvin was cool coming off the bench in college suggested to me (fair or not) that he does not have the drive/mentality needed to be a star.
And we can see it in his game to this day, where he is quick to defer.
And it’s bad enough that BK drafted Marvin #2. But for Rick Sund to turn around and give him 5 years, $38 mil (5th year PLAYER option), without even letting him test the market…Marvin’s agent deserves a pay raise.
ryan
February 15th, 2012
1:16 pm
The only way to get rid of this ownership is boycott them enough is enough with this crap time for a change .
Astro Joe
February 15th, 2012
1:18 pm
If you’re an opposing head coach and you see a stat like “Hawks are 16-1 when Joe scores more than 20″, what do you and your coaching staff do with that data point? I don’t think you spend too much time developing a scheme to defend Josh and Jeff. I suspect that you get your entire player rotation focused on one guy. And i suspect that the discussion in a few of the TOs during the game will include an evaluation of the player’s execution of the plan to defend Joe. I think it is plausible to argue that Joe matching last year’s scoring average without Horford and Jamal is an actual improvement in his personal play/performance.
Rusty
February 15th, 2012
1:19 pm
If you had JT coming off the bench&KH what would that bring to the starters. Someone who can’t guard a fast pg,someone who can’t penetrate,someone who can’t play fast.someone who will make our offense more stagnant than it already is. We waste time in playing with a moreBibby type player. What sense does that make.
O'Brien
February 15th, 2012
1:23 pm
AJ,
JJ could score 20 points against good teams if he knew how to get to the FT line (imo). As for Teague, I agree with you in that he could be bench scorer, because the starters need a guy who can help them get good shots.
Ra’mon,
Teague is too small to start at SG (imo).
Rod,
To me, the big mistake was not letting Jamal go. The mistake was trading away Jordan Crawford. He has the potential to develop into a poor man’s Jamal, and we had him on a rookie contract.
All this could have been avoided if we played Teague with the starters last year, bring Bibby off the bench, and then explore our trade options over the offseason.
Astro Joe
February 15th, 2012
1:24 pm
Blaming Marvin for the team’s short-comings is akin to blaming RJ if the Spurs don’t get it done.
Rusty
February 15th, 2012
1:24 pm
Should we bench JT just to make LD happy.
vava74
February 15th, 2012
1:33 pm
Rod:
“The scouting report was dead on, as Marvin is the exact same player today, as he was then. He can hit a jumpshot, make a dunk (if he does not fall first), get to the line, or get a put back. That’s it. He has not become strong enough to play the 4, and he can’t defend either. IT WAS A TERRIBLE PICK.”
How could anyone look at that scouting report and not think that Marvin would be nothing but a middling player in the NBA?