Atlanta Hawks: Erick Dampier signed; Josh Smith snubbed?
Here is my AJC story on the Hawks signing Erick Dampier to a 10-day contract. Here is my other AJC story on Joe Johnson making the All-Star team and Josh Smith being left off.
AJC wise guy weighed in on the Smoove Snub. Now I will take a stab at figuring out if ‘Damp’ can help the Hawks.
Dampier is a big dude. Maybe he’s too big. He was last listed at 265 but, based on what I saw today, I’d say he’s at least 20 pounds north of that. (Sorry for the lack of visual evidence. I hate my phone.) I know the pool of free-agent centers is dreadfully shallow but Dampier never was the fleetest guy so now I wonder how effective he can be with the added weight.
The biggest red flags for Dampier last season were drastic declines in his scoring and rebounding rates. The two are related because Dampier didn’t grab as many offensive boards and so didn’t have as many putbacks. But Dampier still was effective when he managed to collect misses: His 1.1 points scored per possession on offensive rebounds (on 31 possessions) ranked 84th in the league last season, according to Synergy Sports Technology.
And Dampier may still have some value as a defender. His opponent PER of 14.3 last season was solid. Dampier’s Synergy defensive numbers were good: .83 points per possession allowed, 83rd-best in the league. Plus, let’s face it: At this point the Hawks just need a big body to plug in the middle so bigs can’t bull their way to the basket at will and smalls at least have an obstacle to navigate on their way to the basket.
The question with Dampier probably centers on whether he’s in good enough shape to approach those efficiency numbers now. It’s not a good sign when both coach and player say he needs time to work into game shape when he’s on a 10-day. But I’ll withhold judgment until we see Dampier on the court, which could come tomorrow vs. Dwight.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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235 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
February 10th, 2012
10:39 am
newkid,
He needs Boston..
Josh doesn’t need Boston (imo). He needs a good coach. Doc Rivers, Popovich in San Antonio, I would even take Rick Adelman or George Karl.
Grandad
February 10th, 2012
10:39 am
Not the Right Day for this but here goes;
G-dad’s Trade O` the Day::
Our Hawks Trade … Josh Smith to the Cleveland Cavaliers
Cleveland sends Anderson Varejao to the ATL
* the teams swap spots in the 1st round 2012 NBA draft
ATL getting the higher pick !!
-motivation-
Cavs get Ky Irving their version of ‘`Lob City`’ with Smoove !!
We get Legit Center / Blue Collar / Defense 1st / Supreme Rebounder /
Glue Guy / Fan Favorite in Cleveland / Splendid Teammate /
`”`energy out the wazoo`’`’ ahem [energy] -&- [intensity] !!
I’ll even bet the players can ‘”`Trust`’`’ Andy ;; reckon ?
STRETCH
February 10th, 2012
10:54 am
Grandad,
Awesome trade for both teams! Did you call Sund? But seriously i like it. How tall is AV?
Rufus1
February 10th, 2012
11:00 am
“Josh doesn’t need Boston (imo). He needs a good coach. Doc Rivers, Popovich in San Antonio, I would even take Rick Adelman or George Karl.”- O’Brien
I disagree….If Josh started with Boston, he would be Gerald Green. I don’t think he would have seen the floor as much with a better coach, they wouldn’t have tolerated his attitude or decision making. Josh came into the league as an athlete, with no discernible skill…. He was lucy to drafted in Atlanta, because they were very bad and looking for a local SUPERSTAR.
KevinM
February 10th, 2012
11:00 am
We’re about 7 hours from tip-off….how do match up with the Magic?
I think we struggle only with D12…can we win if D12 goes for 30/18? Do we have enough fouls to give up inside?
Najeh Davenpoop
February 10th, 2012
11:01 am
Sekou makes a strong case for Josh.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 10th, 2012
11:03 am
“Whose spot would you give to Josh?”
Deng or Hibbert. I can understand the argument for Pierce, since he’s carried that team since returning from injury, but even he hasn’t had a better season than Josh.
Grandad
February 10th, 2012
11:04 am
O`B
I’m glad you mentioned Deron Williams.
He does not belong in my humble opinion.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 10th, 2012
11:05 am
“Coaches pick the players they want to coach”
Then they shouldn’t be picking. The All Star game is about recognizing the best players, period. Josh is a better player than Deng or Hibbert. Doesn’t matter how much of an underachiever he is, or how hard he is to coach. You really think the coaches are standing there in the All Star game coaching? You think they are calling out sets?
It’s the All Star game. It’s a celebration, bitches. It’s not a competitive contest.
Grandad
February 10th, 2012
11:15 am
STRETCH
6-11; 260, Brazillian; 11 pts; 12 rebs;
-they don’t run any plays for him-
He scores on hustle points & off. rebs.
Doesn’t block many shots but;
if they kept a stat;
either he or Battier would lead the league in taking charges every yr.
Once again – not a knock on Josh:
but Josh would [then] get to be coached by Byron Scott !!
-&-
We would get our Legit (although unconventional) Big.
Win Win ! !
Sautee
February 10th, 2012
11:16 am
“If Josh is playing at 50% capacity and he’s still better than Deng playing at 100% capacity, then Josh should go, irrespective of whether or not he’s not playing up to his potential.”
Co-sign. But Najeh, since this is a Hawks blog, shouldn’t you have used “irregardless” instead of irrespective?
doc,
In the Hawks Big Man Pantheon, you can’t leave out Big Z.
Zaza??????
Hell to the naw, I mean Zelmo Beatty. Other than Pettit, the best scoring big we’ve ever had.
Astro Joe
February 10th, 2012
11:18 am
Or, you understand the rules of the game and adjust accordingly. Josh has been trying to climb this All-Star mountain for too long not to recognize the relationship between some of his on-court decisions and receiving the support of the Eastern Confwerence coaches.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 10th, 2012
11:22 am
” But Najeh, since this is a Hawks blog, shouldn’t you have used “irregardless” instead of irrespective?”
Dang my bad, I guess that was a heat check for me.
doc
February 10th, 2012
11:25 am
northcyde i am not sure of the relative value of the per other than one more stat and does it reflect what we see with our eyes or does it lie as any stat can do. i know the relative value of collins was to stop certain payers last season. he did well, the problem is that he took the position of a whole player rather than a player that could only be seen at certain times. that left us with 3.25 bigs on a team bereft of bigs and a very controlled budget. it showed up in the other series and games down the stretch as we ran out of gas.
it also has had a similar effect this year when we are down to two bigs and a rook playing with a lot of heart which can only go so far as well. i think collins was a bad decision three years ago from the get go and it would have been better to have invested in a young big and grown him up like the other good teams do like okc, spurs, houston, utah, denver, etc.
the problem with bringing in collins per in the seven’s it too is not relative to last year and this year and is relative to a player long since lost in the nba. last year his per of ~5.5 next to last for those that like to play with numbers and manage and manipulate them to their argument. but it goes waaay back. intersting as noted here bowen has also been at the bottom as was steve nash at 23 so it probably has flaws:
http://graneyandthepig.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/whos-the-worst-player-in-the-nba/
if the per were valuable then it should be more reflective of what bowen brought EACH game. i never said bowen scored but was able to score when it mattered with big shots like the battie’rs and horry’s of the world in their prime who should never appear in the same sentence with twin.
i am not here to argue the PER as a stat. i do know what collins did show. it is what we fail to recognize, acknowledge and stress is that with a real defensive minded center playing on a regular basis with only a modicum of offensive skill we could have been a dominant team last year as we gave up a projected 11 points per game less when collins appeared. the problem was he couldnt appear often enough to make a difference on a game to game basis. nor did we have a real center in the east where there are few and they are shown to be effective.
josh and al were correct in that they were much more effective when there was a big in there with him. sad to say it was collins instead of a young stud like nene or the kid in okc. they are out there being stock plied by some teams whereas we stock pile 6′2″ and 6′8″ers. that is a management and administrative issue that starts at the top. same ole, same ole.
newkid
February 10th, 2012
11:25 am
OB, it’s as much about the organizational culture as it is about the coach. When your ‘basketball family’ consists of Hondo, Cousy, Russell, Sam Jones, KC Jones, Jo Jo White, Nellie, Bird, and so on, and they’re all constantly and helpfully in your ear about ‘the Boston Way’, you learn or leave. Put Doc back in Orlando (without the support of the Boston family) and see if he has the success he has had in Boston. Boston won more championships than any NBA franchise before Doc, and will win many more after Doc. Put Doc (or Pop or Phil) in Atlanta with a basketball family that starts with the ASG and probably ends wtih Nique, and see how much success he has with a cats like Josh.
Those ‘agents’ of Josh’s mentioned in the Sekou link sound very much like the sort of jock sniffing ‘enablers’ surrounding many of these challenged, but talented, young men during their ‘productive’ years. Poor Josh.
Grandad
February 10th, 2012
11:26 am
Najeh Davenpoop
I agree wholeheartedly
Rowdy Roddy Piper should Coach one team
-&-
The Nature Boy, Ric Flair should Coach the other
added celeb star drawing power for this celebratory event !
* Guest Referee *
George ‘`the Animal`’ Steele
Is G.the A.S. still alive ?
_____________________________________________
Najeh
I was not being acidulous; merely re-enforcing your point.
doc
February 10th, 2012
11:26 am
sautee, zelmo was a traitor and wasnt here long enough to make any history.
lea
February 10th, 2012
11:29 am
lol at all you josh smith haters on here: yes I’m talking to you astro joe, and najeh to name a few.
And Grandad gtfoh with that trade, Josh is 10 times the player Anderson will ever be.
doc
February 10th, 2012
11:34 am
sorry northcyde meant najeh, been a long morning trying to catch up.
Rufus1
February 10th, 2012
11:36 am
I agree Josh should have been an Allstar…
but I know why he isn’t and I didn’t expect him to get selected.
How many coaching camps you think these coaches have gone to together and talked about Josh?
Imagine what they say when they game plan against the Hawks?…(”He has Alllstar Stats, but not an Allstar Brain, so give him the jumper, he won’t stop taking it”)
northcyde
February 10th, 2012
11:45 am
No problem Doc.
What I would love to see, is how many votes each player got from the coaches at each position. I want to see how many coaches even voted for Josh, to get a clear idea if he was even close or not.
If Melo can’t go, Josh will be the likely replacement. If one of the guards can’t go, a guy like Lou Williams or Ray Allen may get the nod, even if Rondo or Smith deserve it.
Grandad
February 10th, 2012
11:49 am
newkid / doc / Sautee / et Al (Big Ray- that’s what Damp did)
1st
newkid – Boston – since the marriage of Auerbach & Russell
a “winning culture was born and has remained intact.
I get it.
The same thing is going on in San Antonio:
[ Pops] Robinson / Duncan.
S.A. they get it !
____________________________________________
doc – I’m not exactly sure who’s arguing what;
-But-
Bruce Bowen was a ‘`Basketball Player`’ by My definition.
I do not care what stats say.
Stats are nice – I used ‘em.
-But-
Bottom line a Coach / Scout must rely on his instincts.
*[if he is any good]
I can watch a player practice and tell you whether or not
*he can play.
Then, I must watch him compete, to tell you if
*he is a Player.
One must know the difference.
-Hence-
Jordan Crawford can play – I’ll leave it at that. (he’s a baller)
-the Wizards have alot of ballers- [not many Competors] sic
____________________________________________
Sautee
Zelmo only played in `68; avg 21+ per. / & double digit rebs
Has anyone had better numbers ?
____________________________________________
Big Ray – I’m sorry – that was awful !
Damp et Al.
Playing off your “he ate Shawn Kemp” remark.
Still, I ain’t right.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 10th, 2012
11:50 am
*yawn*
Astro Joe
February 10th, 2012
11:52 am
Big Ray, rhetorical question , right? (Reason Hawks sign these guys a few years late). Imagine the salary demands of guys like TMac, Stack and Dampier in their prime? We buy from the store that sells “slightly expired” meat, dairy and produce. Nothing like a little lumpy milk with your stale corn flakes. Yum-yum.
vava74
February 10th, 2012
11:54 am
Najeh,
On Josh’s snub, you should look into my earlier posts.
Reserves are selected by coaches and their selections certainly based on “quality+coachability”.
The harsh reality for Josh is that he is kind of a laughing stock in the league and the perception is that he is uncoachable.
My view is that he never had good coaches and that, even so, Woody had finally turned him into an Allstar (his major accomplishment and our only loss with his departure).
vava74
February 10th, 2012
11:57 am
On Hibbert’s selection…
… you guys are snubbing him, however, his nimbers are just about the same that Al had (I think per minute may even be substantially better) when he got called up.
… so if Al was a worthy all-star (due to the scarcity of Cs), then Hibbert is a “worthy” all-star.
Walt Frazier
February 10th, 2012
11:57 am
What is all this talk about this dumb all star game picks anyway? A championship is all what should matter. Do we actually watch these games anyway? It’s a showcase of wasted talent. The actual all star game of the past were entertainment and about 3/4 defense; now a days it’s more like 1/4 defense and 75% showboat gunning, thunderous dunks, and hailmary treys. So what if you don’t make the all star game. Josh has been in it before-so I don’t think that will phase him much. Josh must know that he won’t be a Hawk after this season, so he may as well play like he wants to win a trophy with this team. IMHO, I pay little attention to the all star game, itself. I”ll still watch the slam dunk and the 3 pt contest. I also like the McDonalds all star high school game. I may watch the ole timer legends game with Scottie Pippin, if they have it this year.
doc
February 10th, 2012
11:58 am
yeah gdad, agree and i think you have the discussion and my drift in a nut shell. bowen a baller, uh collins, not so much. steve nash, top ten not 23rd and if so in any rating disputes its validity. oh yeah baller also. cuban screwed up royally on that one. he allowed the suns overnight to let a franchise to reinvent itself to former days of “cotton” glory. speaking of cuban, in court with the sec on hi back for regulatory issues.
cdog
February 10th, 2012
12:01 pm
what happened? i thought josh had been named to the allstar game?was he taken off all of a sudden? also, was dampier with the hawks once before? he must have been signed cheap? thats rick sund and his group for you
GEN MANAGER
February 10th, 2012
12:02 pm
josh smith might be an all star here in atlanta,but definately not in the nba,if he can concentrate on being a specialist with his game bieng in the paint rather than trying to be a magic johnson type of player he would definately be an nba all star.
Grandad
February 10th, 2012
12:04 pm
Big Ray
I’m still trying to figure out a way to draft Thomas Robinson.
Probably have to get at least in the top 6.
____________________________________________
Kinda like last year – I liked Singleton at 20
then we traded pick.
On draft night folks started saying Sund was gonna trade up;
I was wishin’ for Kawhi Leonard !
Oh Well … I do not scout for the Hawks.
Their scouts are much more experienced and wise, and professional
and all sorts of nifty such and such than myself.
What do I know:
I said Rudy Gay had the same hgt and wingspan as Sheldon Williams.
why would you take less talent just for that wingspan ?
Then again, what do I know ?
Follow the progress of Kawhi Leonard.
Also I’m saying it right now:
Thomas Robinson / Thomas Robinson / Thomas Robinson ! ! !
Even if we must trade josh to get high enough to get him.
If we can get a Center to boot = Gravy; yeah !
Grandad
February 10th, 2012
12:07 pm
I said Rudy Gay had the same hgt and wingspan as Sheldon Williams.
why would you take less talent just for that wingspan ?
____________________________________________
In other words why draft Sheldon ? wingspan ?
____________________________________________
doc
February 10th, 2012
12:10 pm
bigger butt, gdad?
Melvin
February 10th, 2012
12:13 pm
OB,
I can live with the Iggy and Hibbert selection b/c those guys teams should be represented. Where I think the coaches got it wrong is with Pierce and Deron. I would have replace Pierce with Josh and Deron with Rondo. I’m undecided about Deng but I can live with the Bulls having 2 players in the ASG especially since the Heat has 3. However, if not for the fans vote. I think Melo and Wade shouldn’t have been All Stars.
Andre
February 10th, 2012
12:28 pm
I’ve always thought the NBA All Star roster should be a 15 man roster. There are usually a handful of all stars each year who are selected but are nursing injuries, fatigue and simply do not want to play in the game. This would give opportunities for a additional player (or two) to be selected. In having to choose two playes from the three A.I., Ding or Smith, I would leave Smith off.
Sol
February 10th, 2012
12:44 pm
Josh should ask him self why all the eastern coaches did not vote for him, simply because his turn over and shooting percentage, they are voting for Power forward not a guard. Josh should be the best power froward in the eastern confernce, but he has to give him self a favor and be inside player. The dude is nightmare match up for every power forward in the league. If you add up his turn over and missing shuts, he is absolutely killing the team, at this point he is not an All star.
Rick
February 10th, 2012
12:50 pm
It is a sad day when this guy has been a very good player and he is not recognized by the coaches in the leauge. He has improved his jump shot, improved his attitude, scores more, continues to play defense and yet he is snubbed, AGAIN! Kick rocks all you coaches who did not vote for Josh you should be ASHAMED!
jhawk
February 10th, 2012
1:16 pm
If Josh ever learns to play to his game 8 ft and in he might make all star.. But as long as he keeps dreaming of being Reggie Miller even though he hurts the team by doing it he will never make all star. Josh keep those stars in your eyes when you put up those long ones instead of stepping in closer and shooting, going to the hoop, or passing cause that is the only stars you will see.
honest_abe
February 10th, 2012
1:18 pm
i would hope that josh could bring back someone better than varejao. bah!
when hubie brown the dean of coaches points out obvious flaws in josh’s game it’s not like that goes unnoticed. call me the day when the light comes on and josh finally figures out he has major offensive limitations and decides to play to his strengths and what the team is trying to accomplish.
Slimjr
February 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
I Josh had a pullup j, he’s an Allstar…But he doesn’t…..
Next…….
Slimjr
February 10th, 2012
1:27 pm
[If]^^
doc
February 10th, 2012
1:28 pm
osh, the man without a j.
Slimjr
February 10th, 2012
1:28 pm
I sure hope the Dumpster does not embarrass himself tonight?
MJM
February 10th, 2012
1:52 pm
hate your cellphone Michael, get obama to send you a new one.
W.R. Terrell
February 10th, 2012
1:59 pm
Josh Smith an ALLSTAR?……LMAO………Maybe when he stops being a premodonna and learn the game of basketball. The HAWKS can really help themselves by trading for a player who doesn’t dream of highlight reels. Again, there is a reason Dwight does not want to come to Atlanta to be with his bud Josh but if Josh leaves I betcha Dwight would jump at the chance.
iBALL
February 10th, 2012
2:05 pm
WHY JOE JOHNSON?? Wasted spot on the All-Star Team. The All-Star game is a JOKE anyway. OK, now I know why he made it.
wordsmithtom
February 10th, 2012
2:06 pm
Let’s hope Damp can hold his position like a dumpster……clog up the lane with all that lard he’s packing.
He knows how to play. Can he….
Sautee
February 10th, 2012
2:18 pm
doc,
Big Z left when the Hawks tried to lowball him. Lousy GMs can be traitors, too.
Went to the ABA and led Utah to a title.
But he had the most fluid low post offensive game of any Atlanta Hawk, even if just for a year.
Astro Joe
February 10th, 2012
2:26 pm
#Hawks F Josh Smith on All-Star snub: “I guess I don’t know the right people or kiss enough [butt].”
An oft used excuse for folk who either are too stupid to learn the rules or too brash to accept the rules. I’d like Josh to explain a voting/selecting process that isn’t subjective (including choosing sides for a pick-up game on the blacktop).
newkid
February 10th, 2012
2:36 pm
You’re right AJ. And I’m afraid his ‘handlers’ support this sort of non-sense. What a waste of talent. He needs Boston.