Atlanta Hawks: Suns 99, Hawks 90
Here is the updated game story of the Hawks’ loss to the Suns Monday, their third straight home defeat.
Apparently, there is no place like the road for the Hawks these days.
After a recently-completed 4-1 road trip, the Hawks dropped their third straight home game Monday night, this one a 99-90 defeat at the hands of the Suns.
The Hawks (16-7, 8-4 home) have now lost to the Grizzlies (by 19), 76ers (11) and Suns (nine). Their four-game homestand ends Wednesday against the Pacers. A road game at the Magic (Friday) and a home game against the Heat (Sunday) are next for the Hawks, who are 4-9 against teams that entered play Monday at .500 or better.
The Hawks entered the game concerned about Suns point guard Steve Nash – and for good reason. Nash scored a game-high 24 points with 11 assists, better than his league-leading 9.9 per game.
“He is still one of the better point guards in the league,” Hawks coach Larry Drew said. “He’s very crafty. He gets the ball to the open man. He’s still making shots.”
As much as they tried they couldn’t handle the NBA’s two-time MVP, who turns 38 Tuesday.
Much of the burden of stopping Nash fell to Hawks point guard Jeff Teague. Implored by Drew to be more aggressive, Teague had a dunk and a one-on-one move past Nash in the first quarter as the Hawks took a three-point lead at 16-13. That would be the highlight.
The Suns built a 16-point lead, 43-27, with a 30-11 run between the first and second quarters. Former Hawk Josh Childress punctuated the run with a dunk on a pass from Sebastian Telfair.
The run came as the Hawks struggled mightily from the field in the second quarter. Their second field goal didn’t come until 7:09 remaining. In all, the Hawks shot 8-for-20 in the quarter and finished the first half shooting 39.5 percent (17-for-43).
Most of the Suns’ points came in the paint. They had 16 points inside in the second quarter after only six in the opening stanza.
The Hawks used a run of their own to cut the lead to four points, 52-48, on a 3-pointer from Joe Johnson. However, they trailed by seven at the intermission when Nash hit a 3-pointer of his own at the buzzer. Nash had 17 first-half points.
“Like I’ve been saying, the continuity of our offense and our inability to stop dribble penetration has been a thorn in our side,” Josh Smith said. “If we correct those two things, nothing can stop us. You saw on those road games we had high assist totals. These last two or three games, it’s been low and the offense has been real stagnant.”
Teague picked up his third foul midway through the second quarter.
The Hawks pulled with two points, 60-58, as Joe Johnson and Smith each scored five points to open the third quarter. They would get no closer.
The Suns ended the third quarter with a 24-6 run, with Nash scoring six points, and their lead was 20, 84-64.
“We didn’t respond well to the runs, particularly in that second quarter,” Drew said. “I just don’t see how we respond as if the game is over. I was hoping we were past that point. It’s a point that we are going to have to get better at. This is the NBA. Teams make runs all the time. … It just seems to knock the wind out of our sails when a team makes a run when there is a lot of basketball left to play.”
The Suns (10-14) won their fourth straight against the Hawks. The teams meet again in Phoenix in nine days. Channing Frye added 19 points for the Suns and Jared Dudley and Michael Redd each finished with 10 points.
The Hawks fell 2.5 games behind the Heat in the Southeast Division. They were led by Smith with 18 points and Johnson with 17 points. The Hawks are 5-8 when Johnson fails to score 20 points. Willie Green added 14 points off the bench.
“We’ve kind of slacked off defensively,” Drew said before the game of the Hawks’ current three-game skid. “The start of the season, the one talk we had with the players was the fact that we had to establish an identity defensively. We’ve kind of gotten away from that a little bit.
“We can’t get in a mindset of coming out and trying to outscore people every night. We have to let our defense generate our offense. We’ve gotten away from it.”
The Hawks made a spirited fourth-quarter run, prompting the Suns to re-insert their starters with an 11-point lead with 3:53 remaining. The Hawks got as close as the final nine-point margin.
Hawks television color analyst, NBA Hall-of-Famer Dominique Wilkins was ill and missed the game ill. He was replaced on the broadcast by another former Hawk, studio analyst Mike Glenn.
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262 comments Add your comment
High-Tech Lynching
February 6th, 2012
10:31 pm
First?
Rusty
February 6th, 2012
10:33 pm
Fire Larry Drew,pretty please
High-Tech Lynching
February 6th, 2012
10:33 pm
Second?
High-Tech Lynching
February 6th, 2012
10:34 pm
I’ll take first and third.
Al Horford
February 6th, 2012
10:35 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
ntrigue
February 6th, 2012
10:41 pm
MC please ask drew what’s going on with his untimely substitutions especially with Jeff Teague! Also ask him why hinrich didnt have to earn his spot over pargo when he’s not even in gm shape did he not worry about messing up the chemistry . Why didn’t he gradually work kirk back into the rotation please ask him this blog needs some answers to the pulling hot players just because! Please ask!
Section 303
February 6th, 2012
10:41 pm
This team sucks. Mark it down. They lose every game this month.
Walt Frazier
February 6th, 2012
10:45 pm
I asked myself that same question.(Regarding why Hinrich didn’t earn his way back into rotation). I’ve come to the conclusion that Hawks management prodded Larry to do this: in lieu of his contract and playing time. When things go wrong, look to the top for the reason.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 6th, 2012
10:50 pm
13-5 without Kirk, 3-4 with him. I know the schedule plays a part in that, but a big part of it is also that Kirk is not a significant upgrade over Pargo and yet is getting minutes like he is.
The Hawks were down 60-58 in the 3rd quarter, at which time the Suns switched to a zone. The Hawks have a point guard who can break down a zone using dribble penetration and two good offensive rebounders. Instead, they left their offensive rebounders on the bench, went with a small lineup, and didn’t call any plays for Teague to drive inside. Next thing you know, it’s 84-64 Suns and the game is decided.
LD blew this game.
High-Tech Lynching
February 6th, 2012
10:51 pm
Section 303,
OKC-Portland game on NBA TV.
Al Horford
February 6th, 2012
10:51 pm
<========= still laughing!
Najeh Davenpoop
February 6th, 2012
10:51 pm
Bob Rathbun needs to quit slurping Kirk. Kirk has done nothing more this year than Pargo, and aside from 3-4 minutes near the end of the first half he played like sh-t in this game. Funny how everyone goes apoplectic when Joe or Josh take bad shots but when Kirk comes down and jacks up an 18-footer off the dribble with 15 seconds left on the clock nobody says anything.
Al Horford
February 6th, 2012
10:52 pm
Thats right, blame the backup point guard instead of your CAPTAINS!
Idiots!
Najeh Davenpoop
February 6th, 2012
10:52 pm
Oh yeah, for those of you in the fantasy basketball league, Jeremy Lin is available to the highest bidder. 28 points, 8 assists, 2 steals, 7/9 FTs today.
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
10:56 pm
Ra’mon – Josh said that deal about his lack of offensive flow effecting his defense a few weeks ago in the AJC, on this blogsite. I obviously have no idea on which day he said it, but he said it. It didn’t sound like he was talking about being out of position either, it sounded like he was being a mental crybaby actually.
But maybe that is what he meant. I’m a Josh Smith fan. But I’m also a realist.
Anyhow – is it about time to hit the panic button with this team? 3 straight Home losses? Friends, we just may be in trouble.
brigadierjerry
February 6th, 2012
10:57 pm
Najeh,
Jeremy Lin can play. Knicks will play a lot better now and have played better. He is a good guard backup point guard at best but he has good vision and quicker than you would expect. He had a good game Saturday too
Najeh Davenpoop
February 6th, 2012
10:58 pm
Chauncey Billups torn Achilles’ tendon, out for the season.
doc
February 6th, 2012
10:58 pm
slimj, what did i say about the trap game?
3-10 was my concern for this month, hopeful for 6-7. by sunday it might be a 6 game losing streak to head out of town at 16-12. coming down to earth folks. we are rolling now. terrible bal reminiscent of some of the games i saw in 05, 06 and 07. you expect more now.
captain kirk doesnt have it right now. he is short o all his shots and we are being tron apart in the paint by light weight teams.
zaza is not a starter.
nice to go down memory lane with steve nash. i can only hope he lands with a contender to be able to watch him deep into the playoffs. what a true magician.
turbo
February 6th, 2012
10:58 pm
MC, please help us get answers out of larry drew. more importantly, we need an explanation from rick sund on why the hell larry is coaching this team. im not going to anymore games until we have a new coach.
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
11:00 pm
Najeh – I think Hinrich has a much better midrange jumper than Josh, at least the last couple of years, so that’s why people don’t freak out when Kirk shoots like that. I don’t freak when JJ shoots a 15-20 footer with 15 seconds on the clock either. But Mr. 33.7% shooting away from the rim, I do freak on. Play at the rim Josh!
Now this season, Kirk probably is garbage from 18 feet, but if history is a guide, especially recent history, he should be money before long on the midrange.
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:02 pm
High-Tech Lynching
February 6th, 2012
10:51 pm
Section 303,
OKC-Portland game on NBA TV
Good game!
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
11:03 pm
And I’ve been on the Pargo bandwagon – I like his game – let him play a little more. Trade Kirk and some 2nd picks for Derrick Favors if the Jazz would do it. It’s obvious we need somebody.
Unless ASG’s strategy is to fight for an 8th seed, and hope Al is back healthy for the playoffs – or try to get into the lottery or something. You never know with these guys.
Build around Hinrich
February 6th, 2012
11:03 pm
Time to tear it down and get a real supporting cast around capn kirk please
Section 303
February 6th, 2012
11:04 pm
High-Tech, I just got back from Philips. Need to take the rest of the night off from basketball. Hawks are just disgusting. Hate that I am so dumb that I buy season tickets to this mess.
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:04 pm
Yes doc, this bird is in Free fall from 10k feet!
Wed is going to be 20-30 pt beatdown….Larry will see to it! lol
Najeh Davenpoop
February 6th, 2012
11:05 pm
While we’re at it, the Falcons should build around Dunta Robinson and the Braves should build around Alex Gonzalez.
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:06 pm
Larry is clueless.. He does not know his personnel ….
Najeh Davenpoop
February 6th, 2012
11:06 pm
If they don’t get it turned around really quick the Wednesday game against the Pacers is going to be butt ugly.
Trade Kirk for a big man. GET A DAMN BIG MAN SUND
Add swingman depth
February 6th, 2012
11:07 pm
MC: anyway we can get josh childress back? I hate it when we lose home grown talent. Also what’s the latest on ramon sessions?
doc
February 6th, 2012
11:07 pm
yeah najen it went downhilll with blinding speed. i have not been impressed with ld’s in game management lately. that small lineup was strange and not sure if he is conveying what he expects. as i ssaid above hinrich is not performing and not sure why but he is hurting us right now and teague is not making him play him more the last few games.
Section 303
February 6th, 2012
11:07 pm
Guys, by the way, Michael Gearon is talking with season ticket holders before the Heat game on Sunday. Sure he is looking forward to that. Hawks will be coming off ass kickings at the hands of the Pacers and Magic right before the meeting.
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
11:07 pm
We should have grabbed Lin when we had the chance maybe.
Hate to hear that about Billups. Same injury took down ‘Nique also. Tough to come back from at 35.
The Clips need Hinrich now – do they have a Big to trade? I haven’t looked at their roster.
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:08 pm
Falcons will have to draft another QB. ICE MELT aint the one Grasshopper….
He’s obsolete! With that noodle arm of his…..Highschool velocity….
drebaby
February 6th, 2012
11:09 pm
I dont like Larry Drew,he should quit,and hand the keys to Stack.If he had brought the reserves in earlier,the hawks had a chance to steal this game.
Section 303
February 6th, 2012
11:09 pm
I would like to close by saying that this team sucks. Thank you! Goodnight!
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:12 pm
Tough news for Billups and the Clippers!
Wish we could get DeAndre!!!!!
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
11:12 pm
The Knicks, Clips, and Lakers could all use Kirk – I’m for making stupid trades to get a Big in here – if Troy Murphy for Kirk works, do it. Brad Miller – do the Knicks have a big besides Chandler? Get him for Kirk. That’s the reason I’m not a GM (1 of many I’m sure) – I’d get sick of this mess – 3 straight losses at Home and say ok, i’m not sleeping until I’ve got a halfway decent bigman. I’d do it, then I’d go to sleep knowing at least I’ve improved the team a little bit.
Share the ball
February 6th, 2012
11:13 pm
Let’s face it: we are going nowhere
drebaby
February 6th, 2012
11:13 pm
I like that trade idea Steve W.I would love Favors in Atlanta.The hawks should have amnestied Marvin,and signed Al Thorton,and Jamero Moon to replace him.Now we are very mediocre at the sf position.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 6th, 2012
11:13 pm
Marvin for Stephen Jackson
The core
February 6th, 2012
11:14 pm
Phx got a franchise center, gortat, for turkoglu- great fron office
The core
February 6th, 2012
11:15 pm
Now you know why nash does not want to be traded
Najeh Davenpoop
February 6th, 2012
11:16 pm
An offensive rebound putback dunk, an alley oop dunk, and generally good defense from Josh Childress in his minutes. Never wanted to see him leave. Good teams can use a guy like him who can impact the game without the ball in his hands.
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:16 pm
Didnt Steven Jackson play with the Hawks several years ago? He’s pretty good scorer at the 3?
yodaddybrother
February 6th, 2012
11:17 pm
Didn’t see the game tonight but looks like they put up anohter clunker.
The silver lining to this is that the team could tank it (as we all hope they will) and get a higher draft pick. Fire Larry Drew and bring in a coach that is not depressing every time he talks and knows what he’s doing. A Coach with some pedigree.
Draft a young SF/Power Forward (like Anthony Davis). Let Hinrich come off the books, look to trade at least one of the three Horford/Smith/Marvin and then Amnesty Joe Johnson. Trade Zaza. Resign T-Mac for one final year.
Teague, JJ, draft pick, Josh Smith, Free Agent Center/draft pick from trade/player from trade/ Ivan Johnson.
The fact is that the team has to be broken up. Can’t even beat the Suns at home. No pride, no heart. Al Horford and Joe Johnson for Dwight Howard rental. If he doesn’t sign long term….let him come off the books and have money available in free agency to get someone. If you can’t get anyone hold on to the money until next year.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 6th, 2012
11:21 pm
Jason Terry-Bob Sura-Stephen Jackson > Teague-Joe-Marvin
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:22 pm
Lou Williams drops 14 in the 4Qtr to beat the Lakers..That dude got game…..!
yodaddybrother
February 6th, 2012
11:25 pm
The Spurs did it when David Robinson got hurt. They tanked the season and drafted Tim Duncan.
Trade the whole team for draft picks and just start over.
Going on with this team….it didn’t work time for a new era
prison mike
February 6th, 2012
11:25 pm
Kirk had his skating shoes on tonight with his Johnny Weir impression. Like I felt earlier, Josh is more comfortable on the left block opposed to the right. He scored easily there with 2 fgs and drawing a foul.
Drew doesn’t exploit this and runs his patented iso offense.
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:25 pm
Yea looks like the Magic will beat the Hawks Friday night..That will make 0-5 for February!
Air Zaza
February 6th, 2012
11:26 pm
I hate this team.
W. R. Terrell
February 6th, 2012
11:27 pm
Josh is happy he scored 18 points……get ready for a disaster he went 6 for 12 and the HAWKS are in for it now. The LAUNCHING PAD is LIT!!!!!
SoullRenaissance
February 6th, 2012
11:36 pm
Enter your comments here
SoullRenaissance
February 6th, 2012
11:37 pm
co-sign Slimjr, Lou Williams is a beast!
Nash is the ageless wonder!
LD is the dummy.
Sund is the fool.
SoullRenaissance
February 6th, 2012
11:40 pm
and what a fool believes he see NO HAWKS FAN has the power to reason away. A legit big man just HAS to be in the cards if we care to compete.
Ra'mon
February 6th, 2012
11:42 pm
Grandad, why do you think in PROFESSIONAL sports, players should treat coaches different than employees treat managers? On day to day jobs, many people get into it with their inadequate managers (who were placed in the position, despite not being the best person for the job). Anyone knows you can not argue with an owner about his business, when you’re an employee. But to say you can’t disagree with a manager (who has called you out several times, while never taking fault for anything) who is still being evaluated, and is very much in limbo, is confusing. If Josh or Joe was getting into it with Gearon (or even Sund) that would be crazy of them. But disagreeing with LD’s view of the game, isn’t wrong. LD isn’t proven. And we don’t know what happens in the meetings. We don’t know how often Joe or Josh suggests things, that LD never does, and yet the same results happen. I remember a couple of times Woody and LD getting into it during timeouts on the sidelines. If Josh or Joe weren’t trying to figure out other ways this team can get better, besides attempting the same failed formula over and over, then I would call them Maggette and Vince. But this shows me they do care about winning. LD has yet to show the ability to create ways to get Joe the ball when he’s doubled team for stretches of time. And it’s not as if, Joe is the first player in the league to ever be doubled. Many players were doubled majority of their careers, but still were able to get good shots. If Josh or Joe were disagreeing with Larry Brown, Hubie Brown, Mike Fratello, Phil Jackson, Rudy T, or even Rick Adelman, I would say they’re wrong. But disagreeing (and being right) with LD is to be expected to me. And just another product of the atmosphere ASG has created by their inability to hire the best people for the jobs in the office, and on the sidelines.
doc
February 6th, 2012
11:46 pm
man i enjoyed watching nash run the sow tonight. great point guard, pure, as he looks first to others before he scores almost to a fault and he can easily do both.
prison mike
February 6th, 2012
11:46 pm
Gotta give props to the Suns getting Gortat, Pietrus, Vince, and 1st for albatross Turk and J Rich. What in thee Hell was Orlando doing here. Suns GM pulled the okie doke of the decade.
Why can’t Sund turn our trash players Kirk and Marvin into a young Center and 1st rounder. Holy smokes. Edit that, I’ll take an overpaid guy like Okafor right now.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 6th, 2012
11:47 pm
Salim Stoudamire over Lou Williams
At least Salim has the Hawks’ franchise record for FT%.
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:49 pm
Nash turns 38 tomorrow! So he goes for 24 an 11?Wow doc!
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:50 pm
Najeh got jokes too? LOL….
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:52 pm
Can you believe Danny Granger slid to 17th in his draft class? Josh Chill went 6th in the lottery the same year? Crazy….
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:53 pm
Thanks Billy for the next 10 years bro…
Slimjr
February 6th, 2012
11:54 pm
Danny Granger> JSmoove
KevinM
February 6th, 2012
11:55 pm
Hinrich shouldn’t start anytime soon…very limited at this stage. I gotta say it’s tough to watch a team play so bad when the level of competition gets a bit better.
After the Memphis and Philly losses, you would think this team would have gone out with a purpose tonight. Instead, another egg.
303, I feel for you buddy. Your upgrade tix aren’t really beneficial.
I said years ago that I wouldn’t pay for tix as long as Woody was our coach. Well, I’ve only given in a handful of times. I’m now feeling the same about Drew and Sund.
I’m attending the next 2 games, and going to Orlando for Game 2 ought to be an interesting feat to see this team on the road.
Most of us want to see improvements, yet current management thinks all is good…..totally frustrating to watch these limited opportunities just wither away.
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
12:04 am
That Salim record is a joke! Shouldn’t the qualifiers have to play in at least 1/3 of he games he dressed for? Min: 200 attempts?
Laughable.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
12:26 am
Haha I didn’t think Salim would qualify either, but evidently I was wrong according to the Aflac Trivia Question.
ntrigue
February 7th, 2012
12:26 am
MC please ask Drew my earlier question seems like media doesn’t want to ask the real questions just keep asking non confrontational questions! Help us out please but I will be giving coach an earful pacers gm if this keeps up I got floor seats right behind the bench maybe it will motivate the team guess I gotta do it since the coach isn’t!
Blodus
February 7th, 2012
12:27 am
omg…why do we have to suffer with these stupid owners and gm…why????? damn it just sell the team,sell it!!! you’re like a freakin cancer that just wont go away!!!!
Hawks Fan Down Under
February 7th, 2012
12:28 am
Hawks are garbage now….the Atlanta Tinmen will never win a title playing without any fight.
All the trades you guys propose will never happen because all of the players we want to trade are on such dumb contracts. Marvin 8mil, Josh 12mil, Kirk 8mil, JJ 20mil…..why would any team want those contracts on their books. The only way we’ll offload these guys is amnesty or free agency. Management have no clue.
And fire LD! He obviously cant get the best out of this group consistently. His subs remain a mystery. Too many dodgy subs to go into here…
Hawks Fan Down Under
February 7th, 2012
12:29 am
Oh yeah I loved Ivan’s dunk down the lane and our 3rd unit should start against the Pacers…at least they work hard.
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
12:31 am
Nitrigue, I feel your pain to have to watch Groundhog Day over and over….we know what’s coming and can’t do a samba thing about it!
Can a homestand really start out 0-4 after Indy? I can see this happening to a Bobby Cox team for sure,
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
12:34 am
Wow, OKC got 5 cracks at it and a bogus goaltend to tie the game in regulation….heck of a game!
Time to go to ‘mr. Crossover’ with 6 secs left…..
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
12:35 am
Going to OT, OKC is amazing!
tony
February 7th, 2012
12:43 am
Some of these fans are so unreasonable. They never excepted Captain Kirk from the GET GO! some of his immature teammates didn’t except him and still havn’t. A reasonable fan would admit that this team had problems way before Kirk. I will say this though, Pargo makes the second unit flow better than Kirk and I hope the hawks keep him for along time.
Since these fans don’t want captain Kirk, let’s trade Kirk and JS to the Lakers for Pau Gasol and Draft Kendall Marshall(true facilitator) Smart teams win championships….something the hawks need to strive for.
pg-Kendall Marshall
sg-Joe Johnson
sf-Marvin Williams
pf-Al Horford
c-Pau Gasol
prison mike
February 7th, 2012
12:45 am
Our MC replacement has it wrong, record is 16-9.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
12:47 am
You guys make me lol… the same people who are screaming play Pargo ahead of Kirk are crying for the Hawks to trade Kirk’s expiring contract for a big man. YOU HAVE TO LET HIM PLAY HIMSELF INTO GAME SHAPE AND GET HIS JUMPER BACK BEFORE HE HAS ANY TRADE VALUE.
Nevertheless, I hope Teague was taking notes when Kirk was defending the pick and roll, cause he’s got a lot to learn.
Al Horford
February 7th, 2012
12:47 am
“teams win championships”
CHAMPIONSHIPS?! They’re just trying to win a game!
Josh is too dumb, Marvin is too soft, and Joe is too rich. I’m all you got boy!
Al Horford
February 7th, 2012
12:49 am
How do yall expect Teague or anyone else to learn DEFENSE when you don’t have any decent defensive coaches on the staff???????
SMH you people disgust me.
JM
February 7th, 2012
12:51 am
Who is this person that is making a disgrace of Al Horford’s name?
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
1:04 am
“Oh yeah I loved Ivan’s dunk down the lane and our 3rd unit should start against the Pacers…at least they work hard.” -Hawks Fan Down Under
Fans appreciate hard work and hustle.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
1:04 am
Buddy – I think we are in full scale panic mode (the bloggers) and just won’t to win. A 3 game losing streak at Home? And it’s not like we’re playing the biggest and the baddest. The Sixers are very good, the Griz are above average without Zach, and the Suns are below average. And we lose all 3 – and we trail by at least 20 in all 3. At Home.
So yes, I like Hinrich, and had pretty much resigned myself to the fact of keeping him, and having he and JT be a very good combination going forward. But we missed out on KMart, no other bigs are on the horizon, and we’re starting to stink!
It’s so bad, I was trying to find a way to get Ben Wallace from the Pistons earlier tonite on the trade machine. He who is averaging 1 point per game!
That’s bad. We just need another competent big to keep us playing .500 ball until the playoffs come, and maybe Al gets back. DLeague is near barren with Bigs. Just graspin’ right now, that’s all.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
1:06 am
Oops – “want” to win, not “won’t”
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
1:06 am
I have never seen Marvin Williams hustle the way Willie Green hustled in the 4th quarter last night.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
1:08 am
Starting lineup should be:
PG- Teague
SG- Joe
SF- Willie Green
PF- Big Ivan
C-Zaza
ntrigue
February 7th, 2012
1:09 am
@kevin m I know its so obvious I know we can’t win every gm but coach does not put us in postion to win…..we only win when everything goes right….he can’t coach us to a win when his favorite players aren’t doing anything! That what separates a good coach from a bad coach he’s clueless! Hinrich should not have close to the same mins of Teague every game he should be around 15-18 mins if that Teague should be getting 30+ no matter what drew is a dummy!
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
1:09 am
If you ain’t playing hard the coach need to sit you down. Plain and simple.
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
1:11 am
0-5 going into Sunday against Miami?
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
1:12 am
Yep….
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
1:26 am
*YAWN*
Grandad
February 7th, 2012
2:28 am
Some of yawl carp on minutiae;
while others cannot get Al out their head.
Now it’s pick on Kirk night at the ol’ blog.
I realize I’m an ass myself, by the way.
But c’mon.
Fire LD – that’s nonsense.
All of a sudden – play Pargo / * as if he’s ‘`Zeke II `’
Why was Kirk allowed to beat out Pargo or trade kirk ?
* Reckon if Kirk doesn’t play – we will be able to trade him ?
Play Ivan more – okay – * Ivan didn’t have a great game tonight.
Larry’s dumb – why did he go with a small line-up ?
* Do we have a Big line-up ?
C’mon people use some logic.
For about 10 games we were winning because Al was out.
* Well we see how that is going.
How in tarnation can yawl jump on LD;
when everyone on this board knows we needed another Big
before Al got hurt.
Now we need Two !
Josh has tailed off considerably from the All-Star hysteria
from about – ohhh – just 10 days, or so, ago.
And where has Joe disappeared to ?
Yeah it’s all Kirk’s fault.
I like Teaguer but he did not play well tonight.
[he played more min than Kirk] had 3 fouls in 1st half as well.
V-Rad has not played well since LD put him in the dog-house !
Yes, that was a criticism.
____________________________________________
Every Team Has These Lulls !
I hope this is not internal strife.
Also, I hope it’s not the Hawks reverting to – the hawks.
____________________________________________
Kenyon Martin would not have helped.
On the other Hand – Najeh is right !
As am I !!!
Sund must figure out a way to get us a Legit 7 ftr. NOW ! ! !
Sund:
Be creative; innovative; clever; forward thinking; something; anything;
just get us some size to compete !!!
____________________________________________
Now:
The blame is squarely placed.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
2:54 am
“We just need another competent big to keep us playing .500 ball until the playoffs come, and maybe Al gets back.” – SteveW
Haha you know who else is panicking? Larry Drew. I’m retiring the nickname Las Vegas Larry. Hereafter, he shall be known as Larry Drew, Apprentice of Panic. He’s not the Master of Panic… that’s SVG… but he’s learning on the job. The Hawks have several competent bigs, but the Apprentice of Panic insists on playing incompetent bigs with disastrous results. To whit:
With 1:55 to go in the 1st, Vladimir Radmanovic enters the game for Josh Smith with Phoenix ahead 22-21. Vlad would stay in the game until the Hawks called timeout with 8:52 to play in the half, Phoenix having gone on an 11-4 run to lead 33-24. Guess what happened when Josh went out of the game? You guessed it… layup drill. Meanwhile Willie Green bombed away with three long jumpers, making one. Joe, Kirk and T-Mac all had long range bricks during the Phoenix run.
After the timeout, the starters came back in. Teague had two quick fouls and was replaced by Kirk. That unit got the lead down to 4 with 3 seconds before halftime when they gave up the Steve Nash momentum-crushing 3.
With 8:08 to play in the third quarter, Zaza picked up his 4th foul and Vlad subs in with the Hawks trailing only 62-58. Guess what happens? Phoenix goes on an 11-2 run until Ivan Johnson replaces Vlad with 3:06 to play in the 3rd and the Hawks now down 73-60. Notice the pattern? Zaza gets his 4th foul and Drew wets his pants, sends in Vlad and lets the game get out of hand. Zaza finished with 4 fouls. Meanwhile, after Ivan had 14 points and 13 rebounds against the 76ers, he plays only 15 minutes in this game. FIFTEEN MINUTES. And he scores 9 and has 5 rebounds in FIFTEEN MINUTES. And you want to run Vlad out the for 19 minutes while Ivan sits on the bench? Well, you all see the results of that decision.
You take Bibby, one of the worst players in the NBA, away from LD. You take away Josh Powell, one of the worst players in the NBA. You take away Jason Collins, one of the worst players in the NBA. And you give Larry Drew the most sublime of all gifts… an un-drafted rookie who is so strong he can guard centers and so fast he can blow by Chris Bosh like he’s not even there. And what does the Apprentice of Panic do? He plays Vladimir Radmanovic.
Grandad
February 7th, 2012
3:04 am
We were out-rebounded by PHX tonight (45) – (35)
and PHX blocked (8) shots to our (2) as well.
PHX is probably the softest team in the league.
What does that tell you ?
I think it was Kirk’s fault and if LD had played Pargo rather than Kirk;
those stats mentioned ^^ above ^^ [rebs & blks] would most likely
have been counterobviated in our favor.
Grandad
February 7th, 2012
3:12 am
Buddy Grizzard
I respect you a great deal.
But you cannot lay this on V-Rad.
Nor LD.
Sund is the Culprit.
Why on earth did we not keep Benson;
at least he would be trade bait ?
We cannot even trade the minimum contract guys until March.
Were we playin’ the *kid, even a little bit, we could toss him in as bait.
*Kito
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
3:23 am
Grandad, I would love to buy you a beer and bask in your basketball knowledge. I have coached 13-15 year olds in a church league and played backup center for my intramural team in the Army. That is the extent of my basketball experience. I defer to you a great deal.
I couldn’t understand why the Hawks kept Sloan when they had Pargo. Benson is raw but he blocked some shots and you can’t teach height. Guys like Sloan are a dime a dozen. How easy is it to replace your center who is out for the year?
But even if Benson is on the roster, he’s still a project. He’s going to make as many mistakes as good plays. Maybe he helps us, maybe not. But setting that aside for the moment, let’s talk about what the Hawks have to work with.
Vlad had some nice shooting games in the early season but those have become few and far between. He can’t guard anybody inside or out. On the perimeter he looks Jason Collins slow. On the inside, he has Jason Collins hops.
I’m not blaming Vlad for Kirk, JJ and Willie bricking shots. It’s not all on Vlad. But at this point it should be clear that having Zaza and Ivan on the bench at the same time is suicide. Apprentice of Panic Larry Drew has now tried the Josh at center, Vlad at PF lineup in two different games. The results speak for themselves.
aytunstoppable
February 7th, 2012
4:52 am
I’m sitting here wondering why the hell do i bother rooting for the braves and hawks sometimes…. Both owners/groups are cheap. Neither are trying everything in their power to win a ring. The only two atlanta teams trying to are the falcons and the Dream….
Back to the game… Get a got damn center already. Damn. Fire SUnd and get some new owners asap.
aytunstoppable
February 7th, 2012
4:58 am
I love seeing Ivan’s game but he is 6′8. There were 8 blocks why? because every big man on PHX is bigger than any player we have period. It makes no sense to not have signed another got damn center. RICK SUND Get your ass down and get some work. I’ll give you that the you are handcuffed because the owner is cheap regardless of anything that ass says. he is cheap!!!!!. But still thats no excuse for you to not work out some kind of got damn trade for atleast a stop gap center or hell a starting center so al can 4 when he gets back. Damn SUND GET UP OR GET OUT or go get you ass whipped by GS owner. Screw someone elses team damn it.
vava74
February 7th, 2012
5:37 am
“Implored by Drew to be more aggressive, Teague had a dunk and a one-on-one move past Nash in the first quarter as the Hawks took a three-point lead at 16-13. That would be the highlight.”
Hey Chris Viv, what about stating that shortly after this LD took Teague out ???
That would be reporting, but my guess is that you did not watch the game that closely…
Teague was the heart and soul of this team’s initial good start of the season and LD is breaking his confidence.
Teague has to be more aggressive so when he is balling you take him out?? Way to go LD!!! Congratulations, you are really a genius.
(I am an Hinrich supporter, but not at the expense of Teague’s minutes who should be playing 38 minuter per AND Pargo was doing a pretty decent job and did not deserve to be shafted for a guy recovering from an injury and who had not played any bball for months)
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
6:04 am
Vava you didn’t see this coming a million miles away? People want to know why Pargo isn’t playing. Pargo isn’t good enough to take minutes away from Teague. Kirk isn’t any better than Pargo NOW but when he gets back in rhythm and back into game shape, Drew will feel like he’s justified in giving more and more of Teague’s minutes to Kirk. So for now he just chips in to Teague’s minutes a little bit. Take Teague out when he gets hot.. play him in shorter and shorter spurts. Kill Teague’s rhythm and he stops producing at the rate he did earlier in the season. All of a sudden Kirk’s numbers start to look better compared to Teague’s, then we all know what comes next… Kirk as the starter and Teague with irregular minutes as his backup, with a short leash to get yanked out of the game if LD sneezes.
Apprentice of Panic Larry Drew never stopped hating Jeff Teague, guys. Kirk’s injury robbed him of options, but all the options are back on the table now. Congratulations Atlanta Spirit group on being in the top 10 in the league in future committed salaries and then entrusting that quarter-of-a-billion dollar investment to a guy who will never get another head coaching position after he loses this one. Hand over your quarter-of-a-billion dollar investment to a neophyte… gg guys.
Ken Strickland
February 7th, 2012
6:12 am
Is there anyone out there who’s still dumb enough to think we don’t need Horford?
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
6:32 am
Ken S. it’s not even a question of that. Yes there are people on this blog like Superior Blog Troll who hate Horford so much that they will make any absurd argument to denigrate his worth. My suggestion would be to limit your interactions on this blog to those who engage in constructive discourse.
I acknowledge that Al has faded badly in the last two playoffs, but I don’t see to belittle his contributions to the team. Before he went down to injury I noted that he was taking the ball inside, and although his post moves continued to be very stiff and forced, he was TRYING to develop a post game.
At this point there’s little use in debating Horford’s relative merits. Obviously we miss All-NBA. As much as I sing Zaza’s praises, I’d much rather have Horford in the game. What we should be debating is if Apprentice of Panic Larry Drew is setting this team up to succeed or fail with his substitution patterns. I contend it’s the latter and he’s going to wreck a promising season. It will get worse long before it gets better.
NCBravesFan
February 7th, 2012
6:34 am
Hinrich’s value as a trade chip rests primarily in his expiring contract, so giving him more minutes makes no sense at all … Unless Sund plans to stand pat and not do anything.
darrell starks
February 7th, 2012
7:05 am
I have told coach to check date on Marvin coolaid package it has expire.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jimmy Crack
February 7th, 2012
7:07 am
We try every year as Atlanta fans, don’t we folks? We try and try and try and try…
Disappointment is on the horizon like the sun going down. Every sport. Every year.
But we try.
darrell starks
February 7th, 2012
7:07 am
Hinrich is horrible, he play like a new born baby just look confused.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
February 7th, 2012
7:18 am
Hawks look like a baby out there, Lopez and Gortat are giants with Zaza at 6′11 at best, Hawks have no size at all.
Im continue to say this you need a big body in the paint to defend the paint and with Collins now gone the Hawks are useless on defense, this team need to sign a big in the worst way.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
February 7th, 2012
7:27 am
SUND WHERE IS KYRYLO FESENKO ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
High-Tech Lynching
February 7th, 2012
7:34 am
@Buddy Grizzard,
“I have coached 13-15 year olds in a church league and played backup center for my intramural team in the Army. That is the extent of my basketball experience.” – Buddy Grizzard
Now, I know why you are so infatuated with Zaza Pachulia and keep referring to him [Pachulia] as the best backup center in the [NBA] league. It’s because you see yourself as Zaza Pachulia II. Man, I hope you’re not trying to live [your life] through Zaza Pachulia because, if you are, you could’ve picked a whole lot of other former and current backup centers to admire such as Marcin Gortat, Greg Kite, Rick Robey, Mychal Thompson, Roy Tarpley, Bill Wennington, Will Perdue and John Salley.
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
7:35 am
NCBravesFan
February 7th, 2012
6:34 am
“Hinrich’s value as a trade chip rests primarily in his expiring contract, so giving him more minutes makes no sense at all … Unless Sund plans to stand pat and not do anything.”
Bingo Fuel! Gearon’s puppet is blowing smoke up your nose…………………
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
7:37 am
Made a run with a PARGO SIGHTING???????????????????????? Huh?
Wheres PARGO? PARGO? PARGO? PARGO?
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
7:38 am
These Homes games look like Road games??
The National media will never respect this team, heck the lousy owners don’t respect this team..
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
7:40 am
The Paces win big! At least 20-30 pts……YAWN!
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
7:42 am
Where is the Beef?
Yea All NBA is not a savior..The Hawks had huge blowouts with him partaking in most of them anyway last season! REMEMBER????????????????. Blah Blah Blah……
terrell
February 7th, 2012
7:47 am
We’re still right where we wanna be according to Uncle Larry.
terrell
February 7th, 2012
7:52 am
Larry Drew gives minutes to players based on salary, NOT PERFORMANCE.
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
7:57 am
Yes, you betcha Larry’s been told to coach that way or else…………….^^^^^
He’s not a ignorant man to get where he is…He has to be taking orders from Sund…A 32 year mediocre GM on a good day….
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
7:58 am
Hawks= write off…..
Dawg
February 7th, 2012
7:59 am
The Hawks suck.
Our only hope for a big man is to get Benson, “our project” off the scrap heap. That is exactly what we need is a skinny, short center that is a project.
All, All, All, championship teams are built with a PG and a Center. Yet we WASTE all of our picks on tween forwards. Pathetic. We sell picks for money never used, we trade for exceptions, we trade for a guard using 2 #1 draft picks, that guard is not a good a Pargo.
terrell
February 7th, 2012
8:01 am
I suppose we’re going to put Ivan and greasy hands Pachulia on Dwight friday night. Cant wait to see that.
darrell starks
February 7th, 2012
8:06 am
terrell that’s the best thing said on this blog all year, Larry give minutes to player based on salary not performance, THAT EXPLAIN MARVIN 7YEARS OF STARTING, ONLY IN ATLANTA SMH.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike is Back
February 7th, 2012
8:10 am
What’s up MC, I know I been MIA…not to make excuses for the recent lackluster performance by the Hawks…but the minute we loss AL…the Hawks needed to acquire a Big…heck, before Al went down, the Hawks needed to acquire a Big. Sund and ASG have to do something…it’s not like they don’t have some options…this is a grueling schedule…when fatigue set in…OLD HABITS resurface.
No since in me piling on…It’s long grueling season…the Hawks have to continue to believe in each other…forget the nay sayers…go back to playing that scramble defense, and sharing the ball on offense.
TIME TO GET BACK ON TRACK HAWKS…LET’S GO…LET’S GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
O'Brien
February 7th, 2012
8:18 am
Najeh,
Although Childress and Marvin both have a terrible contract, I think we should have re-signed Childress when we had the chance. Just another miscalculation by our GM (imo).
O'Brien
February 7th, 2012
8:23 am
“Like I’ve been saying, the continuity of our offense and our inability to stop dribble penetration has been a thorn in our side,” Josh Smith said. “If we correct those two things, nothing can stop us..
Is it a team responsibility to stop dribble penetration? Is it the PG not doing enough to keep his man out the lane? What’s the underlying issue?
As for the offense, LD is in his second year, and we are still having issues with the “continuity of our offense”.
terrell
February 7th, 2012
8:29 am
Could’ve had Aldemon. SMMFH.
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
8:32 am
BK should have never drafted JChill as lottery pick in the first place! He should have taken Andre or Deng!
JChill has a permanently broke jumpshot like another Josh? Sound familiar? Hmmmmmm…..
He’s a sub for reason………
terrell
February 7th, 2012
8:33 am
But I dont know if Phil or Auerabach could win with this group. Our players are just a bad fit for each other. Joe/Marvin/JoshAl. Wtf? 4 fowards in the same freakin lineup?? Not gonna get it done. We know it. And they know it.
Jump Shooter X
February 7th, 2012
8:35 am
Hawks can’t beat good teams. Now they can’t beat bad teams. Trade for Dwight Howard or call it a season… Where did big mouth Tracy McGrady go ?
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
8:35 am
““Like I’ve been saying, the continuity of our offense”
Josh, your inability to score in the post or on perimeter consistently is destroying continuity…
Reality check…………..
terrell
February 7th, 2012
8:40 am
A pg who’s head has been messed up by his former coach, his new coach, and one of his CAPTAINS. A sf playing 2 guard. A role player AT BEST who looks like a pf starting at the 3. A tweener playing pg, sf, pf, and center. lol. And another tweener playing center/pf, who hates to play center btw, and isnt that good at pf. There’s your Atlanta Hawks people.
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
8:47 am
“A pg who’s head has been messed up by his former coach, his new coach, and one of his CAPTAINS. A sf playing 2 guard. A role player AT BEST who looks like a pf starting at the 3. A tweener playing pg, sf, pf, and center. lol. And another tweener playing center/pf, who hates to play center btw, and isnt that good at pf. There’s your Atlanta Hawks people”
Gearon BLOWIN SMOKE UP YOUR_______________________…Fill in the blank….
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
9:00 am
The reason why Benson was not retained: little practice time. Drew kept guys who he didn’t have to be babysat. I don’t see them bringing him back after ‘cutting’ him. We didn’t send him down to our partial NBDL affiliate (name escapes me at the moment), we just let him go and admitted a draft mistake. Mi was okay with it at that time. Now, he would get a portion of Collins’ minutes only to have Drew yank him after one mistake. He wasn’t going to improve sitting beside Collins and Zaza. Just ask Randolph Morris.
On Kirk, he will get better, and I agree, those with bigger salaries play in the regular rotation whether they contribute or not.
During this losing streak, why doesn’t FSS put up a poll for the fans to vote on who should start. I guarantee you Marvin’s stock would be down, T-Mac’s stock would be up, and Ivan would be the winner, putting Zaza on his arse where he belongs. Not that Zaza didnt compete with Gortat and Lopez, but he’s not enough to help Joe, Jeff and Josh. We need a brute no matter how little he makes.
If we can see this, why can’t Drew? There Is no way the entire coaching staff doesn’t see the flaws we currently have.
My new 5 vs Indy because they’ve earned it: Joe/Josh/Jeff/T-Mac/Ivan
If Ivan has trouble with Hibbert, bring in Zaza.
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
9:01 am
Mi should be I…
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
9:02 am
2 wins this week and the Hawks get back, some of their mojo….possible?
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
9:08 am
no, 0-5 then meet up with Miami who will get payback..Just a brutal stretch of meltdowns…Just Sad….
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
9:25 am
“Hinrich’s value as a trade chip rests primarily in his expiring contract, so giving him more minutes makes no sense at all”
Do you have any idea how desperate the Lakers are for a point guard? Do you watch basketball?
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
9:28 am
Gearon and Sund are in hiding until the losing streak is over.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
9:38 am
“Hinrich is horrible”
Darrell… he’s bad but he’s not Pargo bad
Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
9:39 am
Sounds like the captain with the high basketball IQ continues to be concerned about the PG play. And if anyone thinks that concern rests at the feet of the guy getting around 18 minutes of playing time, you’re fooling yourself. These games aren’t being lost in 15-18 minutes.
Now with that said, I think we’re looking at chemistry issues more than we are personnel or on-court performance. Bad body ,anguage last night. They forced the ball to Josh early as if to appease him and didn’t run their normal offense. Teague is lapsing into the way he looked when playing next to Jamal… like his job is to “cross the halfcourt line and pass the ball” (to paraphrase a previous quote). He isn’t going to be worth his weight trying to be a pass-first PG like one of his captains seems to prefer. Joe looked miffed early in the game because the ball moved down to one player.
The backdoor dunk by Childress was on Teague. You could clearly see Josh direct Teague to guard Chill, but he turned his head to the dribbler and lost eye contact. After the dunk, Smith immediately glared at Teague.
The lockerroom (IMO) ain’t right. We’ve seen this before and we’ll see it again. When these guys get their panties in a wad, it shows up in the form of poor energy and execution on the floor. The dysfunction has returned.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
9:40 am
High-Tech Lynching I’m the second coming of the original great white hope… Jon Koncak!
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
9:51 am
“YOU HAVE TO LET HIM PLAY HIMSELF INTO GAME SHAPE AND GET HIS JUMPER BACK BEFORE HE HAS ANY TRADE VALUE.”
Not if you trade him for someone on another team who isn’t getting much playing time but who would help the Hawks, like Nazr Mohammed. Kirk’s trade value isn’t any lower than Nazr’s right now.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
9:54 am
BG, your 2:54 post was on point, but like Grandad said, ultimately the lion’s share of the blame lies with Sund for not acquiring more/better big man depth.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
9:57 am
“These games aren’t being lost in 15-18 minutes.”
Yesterday’s game was lost in about 6 minutes, specifically the 6 minutes of the 3rd quarter when the Hawks went with a small lineup instead of playing Ivan Johnson.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
9:58 am
“We just let him go and admitted a draft mistake… Why doesn’t FSS put up a poll for the fans to vote on who should start. I guarantee you Marvin’s stock would be down…” KevinM
Kevin… and this is how fans shoot themselves in the foot. Do you want to see Marvin and Kirk gone? Then you want them both playing 30+ mpg right now. The trading deadline is right around the corner. You’ve got to let Kirk get into shape, get his shooting percentage up and his turnovers down if you want to get anything in trade for him. Otherwise he’s going to eat into Teague’s minutes for the rest of this season until the Hawks lose in the first round, LD gets fired, Josh forces a trade and Kirk signs somewhere else because they can’t affort to pay him. All these Kirk hates should be shouting on this board PLAY HIM 40 MINUTES LARRY!
Same thing for Marvin. You want to see him in another uniform? I think the emergence of Ivan makes him expendable AND we need to get his salary off the books so we can AFFORD to keep Ivan… Ivan won’t be making vet’s minimum next year… he will be making mid level money AT WORST. So do you want Ivan to still be on the team next year? Then you should be screaming 40 MPG FOR MARV DO IT LD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As far as Benson a draft mistake… middle of the second round? Is it possible to make a mistake in the middle of the second round? And we can bring him back as soon as Sund cuts Pargo and Stack.
LT
February 7th, 2012
10:03 am
“Larry Drew gives minutes to players based on salary, NOT PERFORMANCE”
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
10:03 am
Here’s the gameflow of the game. The Hawks starters started the 2nd half by cutting it to 4 (actually they cut it to as little as 2), and then Zaza picks up his 4th foul and exits. Instead of Ivan replacing him, LD brings in Vlad and goes small. For the next five minutes, the Hawks are -9.
Finally LD comes to his senses and brings in Ivan for Vlad, and Ivan stems the tide for a couple of minutes. Then he replaces Teague and Marvin with Kirk and Willie Green, the Hawks are outscored by 7 over the last minute and a half of the 3rd quarter, and the game is basically over.
Nobody other than Zaza and Ivan should be playing center for this team AT ALL, until either Twin gets healthy or Sund signs/trades for a big man.
High-Tech Lynching
February 7th, 2012
10:08 am
Buddy Grizzard,
I hear ya, Jon Kontract. LOL
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
10:16 am
Jon Kontract= avg. 1pt 1 rb per game for his career….How much did he steal? Bout 40 million! Only in Georgia!! LMAO!
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
10:21 am
“The blame lies with Sund… Kirk’s trade value isn’t any lower than Nazr’s right now…”
Najeh, I’m not concerned with assessing blame… I’m concerned with finding solutions… wow… Nazr? Let’s aim a little higher than that. I think Keith Benson can bring as much as Nazr.
Seriously though you’re the poster I read the most on these blogs… I think you should be writing more than blog entries… help me find solutions here. How about Josh and Kirk for Pau? We know Josh is gone right? We all know that? Hello? Blog Land? You do know that 12 months from now, Josh Smith will not be a Hawk right?
So if he goes to the Lakers for Pau, we have a center under contract for two more years after this season, and we have All-NBA and JJ locked up long term. Lock up Ivan to play small forward, hopefully extend Zaza if his market value stays low enough and there you go… Hawks stay playoff contenders for a couple more years before it’s amnesty time for JJ and full rebuilding mode.
How about Josh to the Nets in the offseason in a sign-and-trade for Brook Lopez? Last year he was one of the lowest paid players among the top 30 scorers in the league. Yes he’s Al Horford two inches taller but… he’s Al Horford… TWO INCHES TALLER. Our defense will take a hit but we get scoring back and we get SOMETHING for Josh…
Help me out Najeh… dare to dream big…
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
10:23 am
Have we signed a center yet? What’s the hold up Sund?
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
10:25 am
We needed a center coming into the season but we signed Stackhouse, Mcgrady, Willie Green, Pargo, Sloan, Vlad, and Ivan.
SMGDH
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
10:27 am
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde we did sign a center… Ivan is a better NBA center than Kendrick Perkins.
Melvin
February 7th, 2012
10:28 am
Buddy,
I must say. Your reason for playing Marvin and Kirk 40 mins is crazy. You are not going to over inflate their value by playing them more mins. Every team has scouts. They will base their opinion of a player on their performane on the court not by looking at box scores. Marvin and Kirk are not playing good basketball and their 16 mil in (combine) contracts is taking up too much of the Hawks salary cap for the production they’re getting on the court. Both are getting paid starters money but neither one is a main cog as a game finisher. At this point, I would rather have Jamal 5 mil in a Hawks uniform than either one of their contracts on the books. Just another example of many bad asset management by the ASG.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
10:31 am
Right Melvin but how do you get them off the books? By playing Vlad in the fourth quarter and sitting Marvin?
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
10:33 am
Down 3 Bigs..the Suns have 3 (7) footers? WTF?
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
10:34 am
And I’m not trying to over inflate their value… I’m trying to create value where little presently exists. If LD would rather play a washed up Radmanovic in the 4th than starter Marvin, how much of a market does that create for Marvin? If you play Marvin even 30 mins a game and his 3 point percentage stays elite, that creates value. If you play him those minutes and his averages decline, it doesn’t expose anything those scouts you mentioned didn’t already know. The Hawks have nothing to lose by playing Marvin and Kirk more minutes up to the deadline and everything to gain. If they trade Kirk at the deadline guess what? Pargo is your backup point for the rest of the season and all of Blog Land can throw a parade down peachtree.
Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
10:38 am
I’d rather have Bynum than Gasol. Bynum and Blake for Josh & Hinrich.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
10:39 am
Look at it like the situation with the Hornets trying to get max value for Kaman. When they took him out of their lineup it killed his trade value… so they had to reactivate him. If they are hiding him it makes teams worry that the Hornets know about an injury that’s not disclosed. Only by letting him play can you hope to justify the absurd asking price. Same concept with Marv and Kirk. If you are sitting Marv in the 4th in favor of a certified scrub like Vlad, you’re killing any value you thought Marv had.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
10:40 am
Buddy we will see how good of a center Ivan is when he goes up against Dwight Howard.
Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
10:43 am
Clyde, does that mean that Twin is a great defensive center?
Mike
February 7th, 2012
10:51 am
First of all, I want to support the Hawks so much but sometimes its very hard to do when you get beat by a team that under .500. The worst thing about it, you cant just place the blame on one person. ASG and Sund need to realize that if they dont do something now, they will be wake up next week with a 6 game losing streak and all the respect that this team got will be gone.
Even if they have to shift the “Core”, something needs to be done besides even if they get through this, they might have to face teams like the Pacers, 6ers, and Heat in Playoffs this year. I think they need a trade and a good one too.
Rev in Tampa
February 7th, 2012
11:04 am
Buddy,
While the Hawks are sliding backwards you have really stepped up your game! Great posts while debating several at the same time. Also really appreciated your Hoopinon piece. I was surprised to see your name when I clicked on the link through ESPN’s Hawks page.
Melvin
February 7th, 2012
11:05 am
Buddy,
You dont play those guys at the end of the game b/c they’re other players and combinations that give you a better chance to win. Playing Marvin 40 mins would only expose him more. He will still have the same lack of stats b/c he’s not aggressive nor have the skills to be an effective offensive player. Kirk may round back into form with increase playing time but that would be done at the detriment of Teague development and we all know (maybe except for Astro) that Teague has already sat the bench too much in his previous two years. Both guys have been in the league for at least 7yrs or more so the scouts are well familiar with them. Hinrich maybe an exception, teams may want to see if he has recover from his injury. Either way, there’s enough footage on both players to make a sound scouting decision. Hawks need to continue to play the guys that give them the best chance to win b/c they are playing to make the playoffs unlike the Hornets.
prison mike
February 7th, 2012
11:07 am
Kirks main value was in perimeter D. Telfair had him on skates, pretty much all the backup pgs he’s faced has had his number.
With that said, he has much more pg skills than Teague which is sad.
prison mike
February 7th, 2012
11:11 am
“Look at it like the situation with the Hornets trying to get max value for Kaman.”
The Hornets wants the moon, stars, and quasars for him. David Stern is basically the GM for them, you do the math.
Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
11:14 am
Melvin, I don’t think Hinrich needs to play more than 12-15 minutes at this point. He is clearly not in basketball shape and should be in a platoon with Pargo until that changes. Once that happens, I’d still play him no more than 18 minutes across both guard positions as match-ups warrant. At the same time, some act like Teague should never come out of a game, like anything less than 48 minutes played is a show of non-confidence by LD.
Don’t confuse his inability to earn playing time previously with where he is today.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
11:14 am
“Buddy we will see how good of a center Ivan is when he goes up against Dwight Howard.”
Already said that on Hoopinion.
Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
11:16 am
Hinrich is where Willie Green was at the beginning of the year, before he got in basketball shape. I’m sure no one around here remembers writing posts ripping Green.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
11:25 am
Rev in Tampa, a Hawks Blog Legend… thanks for the kind words.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
11:44 am
Melvin good points but I don’t think Vlad gives you your best chance to win in the fourth quarter.
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
11:48 am
Lol prison mike I did the math… If you want to subtract Kirk and marv you must first add minutes!
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
11:55 am
Astro Joe here is what it means
FIRE SUND
Blodus
February 7th, 2012
11:57 am
Jeff Teague…28min, 6 points, 1 ast, 1 reb…..really? this is our PG? maybe he does need to be benched and have Green or somebody else start over him. He’s way to inconsistent to help this team. This team does not have one consistent player, if they could just have some consistentcy out of 1 or 2 players, this team would be fine. And that is supposed to be Joe, and Josh/Al…That’s what the hawks need, a consistent scorer.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 7th, 2012
12:06 pm
We can post in the blog all we want but at the end of the day its all about results. Two playoff second round loses, a current 3 game losing streak at home, and no center.
FIRE SUND
prison mike
February 7th, 2012
12:06 pm
The lakers have went after Sessions and Calderon. They can have an 8.9 million exception, Kirk makes 8 million. It’s obvious he’s not high on their list. They also have two first round picks.
Rod from College Park
February 7th, 2012
12:13 pm
Buddy,
I personally am not saying that Pargo is better than Kirk, but for this team, right now Pargo was playing better. Our second unit was set, and they were not giving up leads, and sometimes they were expanding the lead. I never have really been impressed with Hinrich’s game, but now he is a liability. He can barely get the ball up the floor when pressured, his defense is terribly overrated, he does not penetrate, and he is not knocking down wide open jumpers. I’m sure his shoulder surgery has something to do with some of those things, but not all of them. Pargo was doing a decent job backing up Teague, and Kirk is not. Plus Drew is acting like Hinrich is the second coming of Michael Jordan returning, and giving him way too many minutes.
Ivan Is not a center, and he is not a small forward either. He is another PF. He is being forced to play center, and is doing a decent job at it, but its only temporary. He is a legit 6′8. He is not quick enough to play SF on a regular basis. No NBA team in their right state of mind will trade for Marvin Williams, no matter how much he plays. As Melvin stated, NBA teams have scouts. A couple of good games from Marvin won’t change the scouting report on him. Kirk as bad as he is playing is a known commodity. His expiring contract is what teams will look at, and the fact that he is supposed to be a smart, heady, good defender (questionable) that can play some point and 2 guard. You don’t rip up the chemistry of you team, and take minutes from guys who were playing well for Kirk Hinrich.
vava74
February 7th, 2012
12:21 pm
AJ:
“I’d rather have Bynum than Gasol. Bynum and Blake for Josh & Hinrich.”
You are embarking in impossible trades now?
Rod from College Park
February 7th, 2012
12:21 pm
Where are all the “We are so much better without that (insert a negative description) Jamal Crawford people? Just a week ago they were so many post about that. Jamal was not worth 10mil, but he surely was worth a 1 year 5 mil deal. I would love to have ssen the second unit with McGrady, and Jamal together, especially since McGrady seems to like being a facilitator. Marvin Williams playing with the starters, no big man, and the scoring ability of this team against good defenses was, has, and will continue to be a big problem for this team, until they address them properly.
Rod from College Park
February 7th, 2012
12:23 pm
I know that Pargo was doing a decent job, when the ultimate Pargo hater “vava74″, actually said the guy was playing well. LOL
ntrigue
February 7th, 2012
12:28 pm
Even when we was winning LD still was doing the same bad substitiutions. He was just getting away with it then now his mistakes and illogical deciasions are catching up with him. He has a bad feel for the game thats just it little small things like taking a player out when they are perfoming well can be the ultimate decision on how the rest of the game flows. Kirk never needs to be checking a quick pg if you want him in the game have him checking the sg thats a better matchup its common sense! Its kinda of like how he would leave Bibby and Joe to guard the quickest pg’s on the planet when Jeff Teague was on his bench all along! Had we started Teague last yr I bet we would have won at least 10 more games at least! It like Coach Drew’s ideal of a gameplan is deciding before the game what time he is going to take out certain players no materr if they are hot or not!
vava74
February 7th, 2012
12:34 pm
Rod from College Park
February 7th, 2012
12:13 pm
Again, you are close to the truth.
Hinrich’s D is GOOD when he is in good shape, the issue is that there are certain opposing PG’s that are beyond his physical ability due to speed differential.
What LD is doing with out PG rotation is criminal and one of the major factors to these losses.
Not the only problem, but at the root.
We were leading last night with Teague playing his game and making Nash work and when he went out the point differential was -9 in a flinch.
Once you give up a lead with an undermanned ball club like ours it gets extra difficult.
doc
February 7th, 2012
12:34 pm
yeah slim other teams load up on them. okc, utah always seem to have a surplus whereas we have a slew of 6′3″ point/two guards and 6′7″/6′8″ tweeners. long arms are hard to shhot through close to the basket. also vlad and tmac going zip for seven didnt help our effort especially vlad who is terrible right now, firing at the basket.
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
12:35 pm
Buddy G, I gotta tell you that no matter how many minutes you give Marvin, you know what you’re going to get. You aren’t giving him 40+ minutes and saying we are going to win with him out there. He is near one dimensional. Any time he drives to the basket and finishes, it is an exception, not the rule. You aren’t going to show anyone they don’t already know. You give him 20 minutes, you deal with his limitations. You give him 40 minutes, you show more limitations than he has shown in the 20 min.
I have for so long asked for amnesty on Marvin. That would give you room to ’stay out of the luxury tax’ and get a couple of vets that would help more. Marvin has NIL value. Get it over with. He’s not worth a 2nd rounder. We get as much from T-Mac as we get from Marvin.
Tell me I’m wrong now.
As for Kirk, he has to get in shape first, and he has to produce something of value with the minutes he is getting. I would rather keep him, but you have to give up value to get value. And penalizing Teague isn’t the answer. Have we played these 2 together yet? I don’t recall seeing it.
Why is Teague the scapegoat for LD and Josh when things aren’t going right?
So go ahead, suggest to play Marvin and Kirk for 40 minutes, which neither would be able to handle currently. That doesn’t up their trade value.
Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
12:36 pm
$5M for a player shooting 38% from the field? No thanks.
vava74
February 7th, 2012
12:38 pm
completely off-topic but always a good read:
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/south-central-loses-football-institution-and-nobody-cares-013112
vava74
February 7th, 2012
12:42 pm
Rod,
The blog monster ate another reply to your wrongful characterization of me as a “Pargo hater”.
I was critical of Pargo’s signing based on his career sub .400 clip from the field BUT he surprised me with his heady play and earnest D.
LD was criminal putting Hinrich on the floor so many minutes at Pargo’s expense when Pargo was doing a good job AND Hinrich was back scrimmaging for only a few days.
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
12:44 pm
Rod from CP, I know for a fact JC1 was worth more than we are paying Marvin, so if you look at it from a value standpoint, JC1 gives you more a chance to win than Marvin. Have you ever seen Marvin get a shot with the game on the line? Is there any smidgen of confidence from this coaching staff?
Sund blew it big time with extending Marvin and he can’t get out of it by ignoring JC1’s wish for some level of negotiation. Sund simply couldn’t afford JC1 because he was a doofus with Marvin, Bibby and Al IMO. Al should have gone out there and had a offer we had to match like he did Josh, but he had to lock up Al early because Al was such a deal if we did it early before the lockout. That was a bad decision to go along with so many others from Sund.
I rank Sund’s value as a GM on the same level as Marvin as a SF…..not in the top 30. You don’t get accolades by just sitting on your hands year after year.
vava74
February 7th, 2012
12:44 pm
BUT, Pargo can and should still be targeted for his poor shot selection.
He could average .430/.440 if he eliminated that 1 clearly bad shot that he takes for each 15 minutes of day light he gets.
vava74
February 7th, 2012
12:49 pm
KevinM / Rod,
Jamal will win games and lose as many.
He is talented but he should never ever ever ever play more than 20 minutes per game on a good team.
I ALWAYS said that I would keep Jamal because if I were the HC I would not over use him undermining what he can bring.
Jamal should be on the floor for SHORT SPURTS. I am sure that he would not mind being in and out of the game 5 or 6 times a night since he is not the type of guy who needs to get loose to play.
He comes out blazing or freezing and a good HC can manage his minutes based on that.
My rants against Jamal were because of the cocaine effect he has on HCs: they don’t know when to stop using him and LD, in particular, was using him at the PG were he could only HURT US.
Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
12:49 pm
vava, if you don’t propose at least one outrageous trade each month, you lose blogging privileges.
vava74
February 7th, 2012
12:50 pm
Which leads us to his salary:
Jamal was and still is worth on or around 5 million per AND THAT’s IT.
There is no way that he was worth 10 million: NO FREAKING WAY.
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
12:52 pm
“Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
12:36 pm
$5M for a player shooting 38% from the field? No thanks”
Well, we’re getting 44% from someone making $7.5M for a less than part-time SF who gives us 44% from the field and never gets in foul trouble because of his passiveness. I think having JC1 at 5M comes out ahead of our SF, who is owed $15.8 after this year.
T-Mac > Marvin also….at 1.3M
O'Brien
February 7th, 2012
12:55 pm
Given the shortened season, and the tough February schedule, this is not the time to go with just Zaza (who is a good backup) as your only center.
As Schultz said, physical fatigue has led to mental fatigue. But LD will continue to put the blame on the players. I hope he is asking Rick (behind closed doors) for some help.
vava74
February 7th, 2012
12:56 pm
AJ,
I will renew my trade proposal of a few weeks ago:
Marvin for Metta World Peace
O'Brien
February 7th, 2012
12:57 pm
I’m with AJ. I think there are some chemistry issues, and I think it got worse when Kirk came back (and I’m not putting it on Kirk). I’m just saying…Teague has not looked the same, our bench has not looked the same, and our players seem disinterested at times.
But LD (and Rick) don’t know what to do to help turn things around.
O'Brien
February 7th, 2012
12:59 pm
As for Jamal,, I wish we could have kept Jamal. But if the only way to keep him was going into luxury tax, then I would have let him walk. I think $5 mil is good value for him, but Hawks just dont have the budget space.
And LD doesn’t know how to use him. With Hinrich being hurt, LD would have probably played Jamal at backup PG (if he didnt start him at PG).
Rod from College Park
February 7th, 2012
1:05 pm
vava74,
I was joking. Only jabbing you a little bit. Whether you like Jamal or not, the fact remains that this team lacks a proven scorer other than Joe. I thought Tracy would be able to do it, but he is more of a facilitator now. We will not compete in the playoffs without one, as we are presently constructed. A guy we should be looking at, which I know you will have a huge problem with is JR Smith. We need a big and another scorer badly. I will sit back an wait on you to tell me how bad of a player JR Smith is. LOL
Rod from College Park
February 7th, 2012
1:08 pm
Which leads us to his salary:
“Jamal was and still is worth on or around 5 million per AND THAT’s IT.
There is no way that he was worth 10 million: NO FREAKING WAY.”
I will say this, if Joe Johnson is worth 18 to 20 something, then on this team, Jamal was worth 10. If Marvin is worth 8 and Horford 12, then Jamal was worth 10.
O'Brien
February 7th, 2012
1:10 pm
Around the League;
Clippers are for real. And although I feel bad for Chauncey, the Clippers will be ok. They have Mo Williams, and will be going hard after JR Smith when he comes over from China. Since JR played with K-Mart and Chauncey in Denver, and played with CP3 in N.O., I think there is a strong possibility he will sign with them. Plus they might start him at SG (where Chauncey was starting). Plus it is L.A.
The Bulls have played 17 road games already, and are 12-5. Meanwhile, Philly gets another home win against a team above .500.
Rod from College Park
February 7th, 2012
1:11 pm
“$5M for a player shooting 38% from the field? No thanks.”
5 mil for a guy who got us out of the first round in the playoffs= yes
8 million for a guy who is 6′10, can’t dribble more than 2 times in a row, disappears, stumbles, trips, falls, and cant convert a layup= no.
KBB
February 7th, 2012
1:12 pm
The spirit is broke. they rather lose games than spend the money because they dont have it. Why cant we trade Marvin and Kirk? They bring nothing to the table at this point.
Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
1:22 pm
Flip got us out of the first round for $1M. And Willie Green will likely do the same. Willie Green, T-Mac, Ivan and Pargo ALL make less combined than $5M.
OB, I think the issue started when a captain started to discuss the way he’d like to see the PG play. Seems like everytime Teague has a very good offensive game, someone starts talking about ball movement, penetrating to set-up easy shots and getting others involved. I think most guys are on board with Teague as a lead guard and not a pure PG. But I think one captain is still working his way to agreement.
flash
February 7th, 2012
1:22 pm
Kirk and Marvin for Ellis and Udoh. Joe plays three, hawks have 2nd scorer and Udoh splits time with ZaZa. Warriors get expiring kirk and can play klay thompson more, plus might get back their first round pick if they tank enough
vava74
February 7th, 2012
1:23 pm
Rod,
Another reply down the drain due to the blog monster.
JR – he is good and if I were the coach yes.
With LD? HAH… no way.
Also, JR will command $$$$ and we will not do it.
LD – decent x n o’s guy, horrible at what is most important as an HC: manage the roster (characters, accountability), minutes, rotations and match ups.
Xs ‘n O’s can be always provided by assistants.
For me:
Green should be getting more minutes and JJ should be playing a lot more SF
There is no way that Hinrich in his current form should be eating up minutes from Pargo and Green. NO WAY.
Green keeps his TOs low and is a reliable shooter – also has bad nights but in general his shooting nights are more regular than other guys who are remarkably streaky.
Also, Green’s crossover is decent enough for him to use picks and drives to get mid range shots up.
Not a very good finisher at the rim due to poor athleticism but he is a poor man’s JJ.
drebaby
February 7th, 2012
1:24 pm
@Vava 74,i love that trade proposal.World Peace,would be a great fit for the Hawks.They need another player with toughness.9 to 5,is the only player they have that fits that description.
prison mike
February 7th, 2012
1:25 pm
I wonder what the general consensus is Jeremy Lin or Kirk Hinrich. I’m sure buddy would pick Kirk.
vava74
February 7th, 2012
1:26 pm
Rod,
On salaries:
JJ’s salary is directly caused by market and cap conditions. Overpriced yes, but only by about 20% IMO.
Horford is not worth more than 10 million, so also overpriced by 20%.
Josh is correctly priced at 13 million.
Marvin is not worth more than 3/4 million – if you remove the #2 pick tag and simply look at him as a role player, he does not hurt a roster if properly used. – so he is overpriced by 50%
Jamal was overpriced by 50% too.
GEN MANAGER
February 7th, 2012
1:44 pm
FOR WHATEVER REASON THE HAWKS COMES OUT FLAT ON HOME GAMES,ld needs to make a change to the starting 5,insert ivan johnson he is a natural energy player and the crowd loves him bring marvin off the bench he needs to do something real quick.
KCG
February 7th, 2012
1:45 pm
LOL at vava. Josh is worth 13 mil but Al is not worth 10mil. I guess that’s why we blog and don’t really run teams.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
2:05 pm
Buddy G – You give rise to almost all Hawks fans fear. You said: “Kirk isn’t any better than Pargo NOW but when he gets back in rhythm and back into game shape, Drew will feel like he’s justified in giving more and more of Teague’s minutes to Kirk. So for now he just chips in to Teague’s minutes a little bit. Take Teague out when he gets hot.. play him in shorter and shorter spurts. Kill Teague’s rhythm and he stops producing at the rate he did earlier in the season. All of a sudden Kirk’s numbers start to look better compared to Teague’s, then we all know what comes next… Kirk as the starter and Teague with irregular minutes as his backup, with a short leash to get yanked out of the game if LD sneezes.
Apprentice of Panic Larry Drew never stopped hating Jeff Teague, guys. Kirk’s injury robbed him of options, but all the options are back on the table now.”
Yep, I can see it happening.
And I do agree with AJ – Captain Josh gets in “rook” Teague’s head – rook as far as first year starting.
Only trade I see that makes us marginally better, if the Mavs would do it to dump a bad contract, is Marvin and maybe some picks for Haywood and hopefully Dominique Jones.
Lineup:
Haywood/ZaZa
Josh/Ivan
VladRad/TMac
JJ/Green
Teague/Hinrich
Am I comfortable starting Vlad Rad at SF? No, but I think he and TMac could hold down the fort possibly until you could make another move. And I’m not sure playing Stack 8-10 minutes every nite would kill us in that scenario either.
And I know Dominique Jones is only 6-5 220, but the guys a phenomenal athlete – he could possible give us some minutes at the 3 as well.
But the Mavs probably want to hang onto Haywood – Centers are valuable in the NBA right now.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
2:08 pm
I looked at that Marvin for Artest (MWP) trade also – Artest would probably be a good fit, but is he done or what? His stats aren’t all that good for the Lakers this season.
Spyro
February 7th, 2012
2:15 pm
Apparently the Clips just waived Solomon Jones… I’d be interested in picking him back up.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
2:19 pm
The DeMarcus Cousins story shows us the importance of Head Coaching, at least to this point. Part of the story from SBNation reads:
“Keith Smart, who was known for his ability to reach players as an assistant and head coach at Golden State, took over and immediately unleashed Cousins. He has let Cousins play through mistakes. He has put Cousins in a position (the post) where he is more likely to succeed. He has loaded up the minutes and doesn’t pull DMC after a few unsuccessful possessions.
Cousins has rewarded Smart and the Kings with the sort of production we all expected when he ascended from the University of Kentucky.
Cousins had 28 points and 19 rebounds on Monday against the New Orleans Hornets; he tallied 18 points and 14 rebounds during a second half comeback. More importantly, he’s clearly taking a leadership role on a team that desperately needs a vocal leader. After being bumped around by Hornets’ big men Emeka Okafor, Gustavo Ayon and Chris Kaman for much of the first half, Cousins lashed out at a ref in the second quarter and earned a technical foul. From that point on, the Kings ran the table and took over the game. Smart talked to Jason Jones of the Sacramento Bee about the tech.
“What was good during that time was he didn’t explode,” Smart said. “That’s growth. He stayed under control and went down the floor playing basketball and probably said something to the official that he probably shouldn’t have said. Nevertheless, I was happy he never said it within the flow of the basketball game, and that was growth right there.”
This is no longer about Westphal, but how Smart handled that situation (a tech for arguing with a huge deficit on the road) was the exact opposite of how it would have been dealt with last year. And guess what? This way works. Allowing Cousins to make a mistake, learn from it and continue to play opened up the opportunity for that monster second half (one in which the refs heeded DMC’s complaint and gave him five free throws).
Emile Avanessian of Hardwood Hype breaks down Cousins’ impressive numbers under Smart, and how impressive they are: he’s one of nine players in the league average at least one steal and one block, he’s No. 3 in double-doubles behind Kevin Love and Dwight Howard, he’s shot better than 50 percent in eight of his 15 games under Smart, sits in the top eight in every rebound rate category and No. 4 overall.
Five weeks ago, Westphal made Cousins look like a monster. Now Cousins is doing that job himself, on the court. It’s no surprise that, as a result, the Kings are 7-10 under Smart with a road-heavy schedule (six home, 11 road) and looking like the best of the West’s non-playoff contenders. “
Melvin
February 7th, 2012
2:21 pm
I think the Hawks would have a hard time finding a taker for Marvin contract. I think we could only get a player that has fallen out favor with his current team and makes near or more than what Marvin makes in return. Think, Stephen Jackson or John Salmons.
Rod,
I would love to have JR Smith on this team. If I had my way, I would trade Hinrich to the Lakers for their 8.9mil TPE (and a 1st rd pick if possible) then sign JR Smith with using the full MLE. Then I would try to flip the Lakers 1st rd pick and TPE to the Kings for Jason Thompson or sign a big using the 3mil we saved from the difference of Hinrich/JR contracts.
Running out of steam
February 7th, 2012
2:21 pm
The end is near….the real hawks are showing up….start out fast and fade away…..they need lottery picks or they will always be mediocre.
1st or 2nd round playoff exit AGAIN…..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Branded/tattoo league is a bunch of wannabees
February 7th, 2012
2:25 pm
Hawks haven’t been fun to watch since Hubie and Fratello were coaches and there was a diverse team that won. And tattoo less league was easier to watch.
ryan
February 7th, 2012
2:50 pm
Hawks have given up Larry Drew may get the pink slip soon we can only hope but if we get rid Drew will the ASG hire another cheap coach i would not expect a big name coach coming .
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
2:55 pm
“I wonder what the general consensus is Jeremy Lin or Kirk Hinrich. I’m sure buddy would pick Kirk.”
Lin has played well for a grand total of two games. Even Salim Stoudamire had a few really good games here and there. Let’s give him some time before making him out to be something special.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
2:55 pm
That being said if anyone wants Jeremy Lin in the fantasy league prop me a trade.
Tmac fan
February 7th, 2012
2:57 pm
LD is pissing me off. Give Tracy Mcgrady minutes & the hawks will win. Tmac should be the first player off the bench for the point – power forward
Rufus1
February 7th, 2012
2:58 pm
The Allstar Bid..
Once Josh and Joe stop BATTLING for the ALLSTAR bid, we will get back to playing solid basketball..
This slide is all about Josh and Joe being selfish…They are no making the extra pass or playing sound defense.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
3:03 pm
“How about Josh and Kirk for Pau? We know Josh is gone right? We all know that? Hello? Blog Land? You do know that 12 months from now, Josh Smith will not be a Hawk right?”
Like I said on the previous blog, I’m fine with a Josh for Pau trade, since Pau is a better player. But if the Hawks do that, they can’t expect to play Gasol and Horford at PF and C and expect to be a good defensive team. Neither one is going to intimidate anyone coming through the lane.
I’m a little more hesitant about Josh for Lopez, especially after Lopez’s rebounding rate plummeted last year. Lopez is talented enough to where the dice roll might work. Not convinced he’s capable of not being soft though.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
3:04 pm
I really liked the Josh for Chandler and Markieff Morris trade that someone posted a couple of blogs ago. Chandler is the perfect kind of center to play with Teague/Joe/Al. He’s not as good of a player as Gasol, but he might be a better fit for the rest of this team.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
3:09 pm
Apparently the Hawks have committed the least fouls in the league.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
3:10 pm
Najeh – That was Just Joe who proposed that trade – I just don’t know that the Knicks would give up Chandler at this point.
Checked the stats for C’s yesterday – Horford at last seasons 15.3 PPG would be 4th in the NBA in scoring among all C’s right now. Good C’s are difficult to come by right now.
If the Clips would trade him, I’d even take Trey Thompkins for a couple of 2nd picks right now. He’s 6-10 245, and a natural PF, but could give some minutes at C. You’d also have a backup plan in case Josh walks in Free Agency or trade.
Ivan’s a pretty good backup plan at PF himself.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
3:12 pm
Najeh – But i must mention the trade intrigued me as well – the Chandler trade – seemed about the most fair, realistic trade out there for all of the teams involved.
And some team that really wants Dwight may overpay for Josh, if they think it will help them in landing Dwight.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
3:15 pm
I still say Al, Marvin, Hinrich for Dwight is a good deal, but I would only do it if Dwight agreed to pick up his option for next season at the very least.
Ok, I’m selfish, and want to keep JJ, Josh, and Teague to go with Dwight. I have no idea if the Magic would do that trade, but with Otis at GM you never know.
prison mike
February 7th, 2012
3:23 pm
Najeh, nobody is crowning Lin. For THIS YEAR, Lin is better than Kirk. He has the ability to play defense and get to the lane.
Kirk is struggling to stay with backup guards. He’s proven to be injury prone as well.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
3:24 pm
At this point Hinrich for Miller and Tolliver from the ‘Wolves makes sense for both teams. Miller and Tolliver are out of the rotation in Minny, with Pekovic and Darko at C and Love with Randolph at PF. And we desp. need bigs.
Tolliver may thrive a little here – he used to be a very good jump shooter – I haven’t checked his stats this season.
Of course we would need to cut Stack to make that happen.
Speaking of which, the cuts of Pargo and Stack are due by Feb. 10th if they are going to happen. Internet chatter is that these things will happen sooner rather than later for paperwork purposes etc. Could happen as soon as today it has been reported, that these non-guaranteed guys start getting released.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
3:27 pm
The ‘Wolves need Hinrich also – he would be a great rest of the year compliment to Wayne Ellington.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
3:29 pm
Ivan is also non-guaranteed, but I think the only way he gets cut, is if he were to tell Coach Drew the truth or something.
Grandad
February 7th, 2012
3:32 pm
O`B – I second your AJ assessment:
” I think we’re looking at chemistry issues more
than we are personnel or on-court performance ”
-AJ-
____________________________________________
Pargo turns it over too much;
and he is a shooting guard in a pg body.
He looks for his own shot rather than set the offense `’` or ‘`’
make his teammates better by looking for them in their spots.
He is, however, a pretty good on ball defender;
as is Kirk – a noted exceptional defender !
____________________________________________
I swear;
If kirk and Al were not white;
I do not think they would catch half the crap, on this blog,
that seems to fly their way !
____________________________________________
We; as in ‘`our Hawks`’ must trade Josh Smith Immediately !
It’s the only way out.
Complaining about ball movement; [Joe] however justified;
and stopping ball penetration [Teaguer] without looking in the mirror
and accepting any respnsibility himself; shows continued immaturity.
Thus, he still does not, nor will he ever get ‘`it`’. -IMO-
____________________________________________
Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
3:33 pm
Steve, I think Howard has pretty much made it clear that Atlanta is NOT on his list. And why would Ivan have anything negative to say to the one and only NBA head coach who gave him an NBA job as a 27 YO rookie? Dude should be nothing but appreciative for the opportunity that 29 other teams didn’t provide.
Astro Joe
February 7th, 2012
3:38 pm
It will be interesting to monitor the Knicks performance while Melo is hurt. Will his absence from the Knicks affect them like it has the Nuggets?
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
3:52 pm
Well, the battle ends tomorrow nite for the lone ATL All Star berth. Somebody is going to be snubbed. This include players throughout the League. Does Philly get anybody in? 1? 2? Lou Williams? Igoudala? Does Hibbert make it? What about Deng and Brandon Jennings? Rondo?
But the Hawks will almost assuredly have one, but only 1, player in. Is it going to be Josh or JJ.
Josh has the higher PER at 19.0 to 18.4
But JJ is 17th in the NBA in scoring, and 1st among SG’s in scoring among those who qualify in the East (Wade has missed to many games).
But Josh is 4th in scoring among PF’s in the East, 3rd in rebounds, 1st in Blocks.
But JJ is 6th among all players in the East in the number of 3 pointers made.
And as MC points out, JJ has been playing great D this season.
But Josh came in 2nd in DPOY just a season and a half ago.
It looks to me like Josh edges JJ this season.
But JJ is acknowledged around the League as ATL’s best (maybe not most talented, but best) player.
And JJ does have 5 straight All Star games on his resume. That does carry weight with Coaches. They’ll throw a guy in, Like KG the past couple of seasons, or Tim Duncan last season, when maybe it was time for some new blood.
So we shall see. I hope both get in, but not likely.
O'Brien
February 7th, 2012
3:52 pm
Rod,
In 2 seasons with ATL, Jamal averaged 30.5 mpg. This year in Portland, they are playing him 25.8 mpg. Oh by the way, in Portland, he is shooting 32% from 3, and 38% from the field.
For his career, JR Smith averages 24 mpg. Once Jamal became a bench scorer, his minutes should be limited to 25 mpg (unless he is on fire of course). But too often, he played 30+ minutes despite putting up brick after brick, not getting rebounds, and defense not up to par.
The key with Jamal is the HC needs to know how to use him properly. LD does not have a good feel for substitution and minutes distribution, so I would pass on Jamal.
The bad thing for the Hawks is JJ might be a proven scorer, but he has become a proven scorer only when playing bad teams. Hawks have played 25 games this season. In 13 of those games, JJ failed to reach 20 points. Our record is 5-8 in those 13 games, and of course those 8 losses all came against teams over .500.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
3:54 pm
AJ – That was a jab at LD, nothing more.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
3:57 pm
AJ – Also, if you’ve done some history on Ivan, he has a history of tremendous blowups. So I could see him going to LD and saying what you said about Captain Josh – telling the truth, and LD not appreciating it too much.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
3:58 pm
All I know is when I become a multi-billionare, I want AJ and Northcyde working for me. They really give leadership an incredible benefit of the doubt.
SteveW
February 7th, 2012
4:00 pm
AJ – And about Howard – that’s today – you never know what tomorrow holds for a hometown guy. These prima-donna athletes may change their mind on a whim. He is only 25,26.
joeygt1
February 7th, 2012
4:09 pm
being a longtime hawks fan is hard… they are so frustrating to watch…one game they look like championship contenders and they other they look like a lottery bound team..al horford being out has been harder for the hawks then expected bc while the hawks were winning it was against smaller teams..look the last thre games we have faced 3 bigger teams as in pf and the c postion and we got dominated.. sund we need to get a competant big in here pronto.. if not this losing streak with the hawks will get worse
Grandad
February 7th, 2012
4:10 pm
SteveW
You may be over-analyzing Ivan.
If he has a problem with Josh;
he’s more likely to clock him one and be done with it;
rather than talk about it !
Grandad
February 7th, 2012
4:11 pm
” clock him one ”
country for ” knock him on his ass with one swift punch “
O'Brien
February 7th, 2012
4:12 pm
From the memphis commercial appeal;
NBA teams must guarantee contracts Friday but have until 5 p.m. today to cut players so that they clear waivers by Friday..
If that’s the case, we should know something today. Personally, I dont think Hawks will waive anybody. We will go with what we have, and sign somebody to a 10 day contract until Twin comes back.
The team we have right now is the team we will have after the trade deadline (imo). But I really hope I’m wrong.
Grandad
February 7th, 2012
4:14 pm
We can only hope Josh makes All-Star !
Compressed season – Joe needs his rest.
Josh plays – then trade him and his All-Star credentials !
Jay Dubu
February 7th, 2012
4:18 pm
The Hawks are 3 and 7 against teams that are .500 or better. Two of those 7 losses were to the Heat and Bulls, bith games that they should have won.
They lost to the Heat @ home with LBJ and Wade in street clothes, and to the Bulls after blowing a 19 point secon half lead, (enterd the 4th quarter with a 14 point leat).
If you’re a playoff team, you should not lose to Memphis and Phoenix by a combined 28 points on your home court. Some of the blowout tendancies that they displayed last season are starting to show up again.
Grandad
February 7th, 2012
4:19 pm
O`B:
waive:
* Collins
* Stack
* Pargo
In that order.
Nobody will pick up any of these guys;
we can then re-sign any or all, 10 day contract, whatever ?
honest_abe
February 7th, 2012
4:26 pm
this is new low for the city of atlanta. there’s about as much interest in and around the city as there was when the hawks won 13 games. at least back then there was hope. hope for draft picks, hope for the future. now it’s just about facing the reality of watching josh (el captain) find new ways to suck. GET RID OF JOSH!
dapluva!
February 7th, 2012
4:26 pm
We need a center dammit point blank
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
4:33 pm
I dont think we subtract anyone either…we are already down 2 bodies.
We simply find us an unused post guy that’s sitting or that has just been waived by Memphis who appears to be in shape and we throw him on our bench. LD won’t have any trust in whomever Sund brings in. And Sund isn’t bringing in potential.
Jay Dubu
February 7th, 2012
4:36 pm
Astro Joe,
Hinrich is making almost 9.5 time what Green makes, which doesn’t allow the Hawk to make a move that could really help them. Not that it’s Kurts fault that the Hawks were willing to pay him that much…just saying that could be why no one wrote post ripping Green.
O'Brien
February 7th, 2012
4:37 pm
From Jeff Schultz new blog;
“We certainly need another big body here,” coach Larry Drew said.
Also, maybe therapy. It’s natural that after a stretch that has seen the Hawks trail by 20-plus points in three straight home losses, Drew is wondering where his players’ heads are at.
“As much as you don’t want it to affect your team players, it’s got to be in the back of their minds — it’s got to be,” he said. “Hopefully they can move forward and get through this.”
” I hope we’re not in a situation where some of these guys have hit a wall already because there’s just too much basketball that has to be played,” Drew said.
It’s nobody’s fault that Horford and Collins got hurt. But fixing it? That’s on Sund.
Yes, he’s in a difficult situation. But he gets paid for difficult situations. Doing nothing is beyond dangerous, unless the mindset of the organization is, “Well, let’s just try to make the playoffs as a No. 8 seed.”
Sund says he’s not opposed to making a trade. But he acknowledges, “Having a full roster and a full season would make that easier.”.
When the Hawks were rolling during the road trip, Sund said a player approached him and asked the general manager if he had any concerns about the team.
Sund’s response: “I wanted to see how we would respond when there’s a bump in the road, like a losing streak.”
This qualifies as a bump. We’re about to find out something. Prepare to cover your eyes.
It appears to me that Sund and LD are putting it all on the current players. The Hawks are showing some cracks, so the question is, will they stop the leaking, or will the walls come tumbling down.
Jay Dubu
February 7th, 2012
4:42 pm
“Like I’ve been saying, the continuity of our offense and our inability to stop dribble penetration has been a thorn in our side,” Josh Smith said. “If we correct those two things, nothing can stop us.”
….except your long jumpshots!!
Who would have thunk that?
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
4:46 pm
Scottie give me more FORWARDS!!!!!!!!!!
I NEED MORE FORWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aye Captain!
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
4:48 pm
BILLY KNIGHT + RICK SUND = JBF( Just a bunch of Forwards)
Slimjr
February 7th, 2012
4:55 pm
“When the Hawks were rolling during the road trip, Sund said a player approached him and asked the general manager if he had any concerns about the team.
Sund’s response: “I wanted to see how we would respond when there’s a bump in the road, like a losing streak.”
Blowing Smoke! Pacers by 20+
joeygt1
February 7th, 2012
4:57 pm
again ,being a longtime hawks fan is hard… they are so frustrating to watch…one game they look like championship contenders and they other they look like a lottery bound team..al horford being out has been harder for the hawks then expected bc while the hawks were winning it was against smaller teams..look the last thre games we have faced 3 bigger teams as in pf and the c postion and we got dominated.. sund we need to get a competant big in here pronto.. if not this losing streak with the hawks will get worse
Jay Dubu
February 7th, 2012
4:59 pm
@Rod from College Park,
The Hawks were able to trade Sheldon Williams, so I’m sure that they can find a taker for Marvin. They may get next to nothing in return, but they can find a taker.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 7th, 2012
5:02 pm
New blog up.
KevinM
February 7th, 2012
5:05 pm
Greg Smith picked up by the already post presence Rockets. They are just filling up the bench with big guys.
Who is left that can step right in? Maybe Davis from Memphis, who was waived, Vernon Macklin in a DET deal?
darrell starks
February 7th, 2012
6:26 pm
MARVIN MUST COME OFF THE BENCH, OKAY HAWKS LETS GET THE BALL ROLLING!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
February 7th, 2012
6:34 pm
TMAC MUST STARTE
STARTERS TEAGUE, JOE, TMAC, JOSH, ZAZA
BENCH PARGO, GREEN, MARVIN, VLAD, IVAN
RESERVE CAPTAIN KIRK, STACK
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buddy Grizzard
February 7th, 2012
8:15 pm
“You don’t rip up the chemistry of you team, and take minutes from guys who were playing well for Kirk Hinrich”
Except that Pargo is a short slow volume shooter who can’t guard anybody even though he’s trying. If you guys didn’t see LD giving Teague’s minutes to Kirk coming, you must not have been paying attention.