Atlanta Hawks: Good fit for Fesenko?
The Hawks plan to sign a center and it almost certainly will be a guy on a 10-day contract rather than a permanent addition. They’ve discussed Kyrylo Fesenko, Erick Dampier and Dan Gadzuric but, as far as I know, they haven’t inquired with those guys yet to gauge their interest in a short-term gig in Atlanta.
(Ravell Call, Deseret News)
I’ve always thought Fesenko, the massive 7-foot Ukranian, is probably the best item in the Big Man Bargain Bin (excluding Joel Przybilla, who has eyes for the Heat or Bulls). But you figured something was up when the Warriors reportedly had an agreement with Fesenko in December but balked at signing him and then passed on him again after Kwame Brown went down last month. Word is the knee injury Fesenko suffered playing for the Ukraine last summer remains a concern; his conditioning and work ethic were suspect before he got hurt and so you have to wonder how much he can give.
But it might be worth it for the Hawks to find out on a 10-day because if Fesenko can give them 8-10 minutes a night he’s a good fit (and he’s only 24-years old, too, so Hawks could get a jump on looking ahead). Fesenko recorded amazing on-court, off-court defensive numbers in Utah: The Jazz allowed 11.91 fewer points per 100 possessions in 2010-11 with Fesenko and 8.68 points fewer in 2009-10 according to basketballvalue.com. Synergy Sports Technology ranked Fesenko ninth in the league in 2010-11 with .71 points per possession allowed (on just 93 possessions used in 53 games, but still). And 82games. com had Fesenko’s opposing PER at 10.4 last season and 12.9 in 2009-10.
In other words, Fesenko has provided an even better Twin Effect than Jason Collins with better rebound and blocks rates (and, to be sure, lots and lots of fouls). Fesenko offers next to nothing offensively but he’s got Twin beat there, too, in large part because he can score on putbacks–1 point per possession on offensive rebounds last season, according to Synergy.
Finally, from my selfish perspective, bringing in Fesenko would at least add some intrigue for the Hawks. Don’t get me wrong: It’s been fun to see Ivan Johnson defying the odds to become a bona fide rotation player. But wouldn’t it be even cooler to see a giant Ukranian taking on Roy Hibbert and Dwight Howard this week?
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
271 comments Add your comment
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
12:07 pm
People talk about trading Josh for a Big – the fact is there are almost no Bigs’ in the NBA right now, and the ones that are out there are like pure gold – meaning you would have to overpay to obtain one.
Or you would get semi-garbage like Jason Thompson or Robin Lopez, and maybe a marginal player or a draft pick.
The only way I trade Josh right now is:1) He requests a trade, and I can get some good value. Real good value. 2) Somebody like Al Jefferson demands a trade, then I look at that trade. I didn’t say I make it, but I look at it for sure. 3) Josh states publicly that he’s not signing with the Hawks as a FA. Kinda like #1, but not exactly. Then I start looking and taking offers until next years trade deadline. 4) Sombody offers something crazy for Josh because they want to sell tickets, or the Coach says he can develop Josh further etc. Like Enes Kanter and Derrick Favors for Josh. I would definetley have to look at that trade.
Other than that, I’m talking to his agent trying to see what it’s going to take to re-sign him. I don’t think Josh is worth max money, but maybe 4 years, 60 mill. would be the most I would offer. He would be 31 at the end of that contract, and still giving good value barring injury or something.
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
12:10 pm
I like Kenyon Martin, but I’m glad we didn’t offer him a 3 year deal. Did the Clips really do this? I haven’t looked it up.
With Billups, Caron, and now KMart, the Clips got old in a hurry.
Speaking of Billups, I wonder if the Knicks are kicking themselves about releasing Billups now? I’m not sure if they could’ve signed Chandler and kept Billups, but something tells me if they could’ve and would’ve, that would be one dangerous team right there.
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
12:14 pm
Hard to believe Ivan is older by quite a bit than Josh. He’s a bigger version of Charlie Criss – I liked Charlie! Talk about a dude that was money from the top of the key, could drive, and played some tenacious straight ups D, highly energetic. Now 30 years later we’ve got Ivan, another much older rookie.
Astro Joe
February 6th, 2012
12:19 pm
doc, no, I think they likely felt good about All-Star Al, Zaza and Collins as their center rotation. When Al went down, they likely did their due diligence to check out the leftovers (i.e. Dampier, Gadzuric, Fesenko) and ultimately decided they weren’t worth a guaranteed contract for the remainder of the season. Instead, they may have decided to wait for Hinrich’s return to keep their available trade assets for when the trading season launches. If a player is hurt Tuesday, fans want a new guy plugged in on Wednesday morning. But that may not always be the smart thing to do. I have no idea if Sund will do anything in the next 4-5 weeks but I can’t really see that the Hawks “missed out” on anyone so far (other than K-Mart who signed a 3-year deal which I am thrilled Sund did NOT offer). We’re ultimately debating the lack of a 4th center who would be forced to play like our 2nd or 3rd center. I simply don’t see that making a huge difference in the fortunes of this team. IMO, a true difference maker comes in the form of a trade and my guess is that GMs across the league have not yet declared it “Trading Season”, despite the wishes of fans across 25+ teams who are desperate to see a talent infusion.
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
12:25 pm
That link from the tweets on DLeague callups says this of Jeff Foote:
“Scout’s Take: “Foote’s the best center prospect in the league when considering his size, ability to run the court and soft hands for a guy his height. He’s definitely not a finished product, but it wouldn’t be surprising to see him on an NBA bench later this year.” Jeff is 7-0 265 if my memory serves me correctly.
It also says the only other C prospect mentioned than the 3 they profiled was Keith Benson.
That Marcus Lewis has a good motor at PF also – his efficiency ratings are about the same as Ivan’s last season. He’s 6-8 245 and averaging about 14 and 13.
Sign that kid, and let Ivan and Marcus turn into the Chucky Hayes brigade at C. Bite their kneecaps off guys!
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
12:28 pm
Give Keith Benson another month or so, and see how he’s doing. That time in DLeague will be good for him. But if another team wants to sign him, I snatch him up before they do, and ditch Stack or Pargo.
And for me Pargo was a way better player than I thought. He actually looked like a competent NBA PG about 2/3’s of the time out there. I thought he was pure garbage coming from Chicago, but he’s a good 3rd PG, who can play some backup PG when needed.
vava74
February 6th, 2012
12:32 pm
SteveW,
I agree that we might be better off with another Ivan than with a useless stiff.
It would not make us a playoff threat but would certainly boost our chances of having a decent regular season.
I still like Benson as a situational shot blocker. His D-League’s numbers show that he has a lot to work ahead of him, but he seems to have a lot of upside to me: good kid, soft touch, good shot blocking skills and seems to be a decent offensive rebounder (in the pre-season he got quite a few putbacks).
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
12:37 pm
Tell the Suns to drop off Robin Lopez while they’re here. I’d give them every 2nd pick we’ve got for the next 3 years for him right now. He’s their 3rd string C currently. Gonna be a FA at the end of the season anyway. Just leave him ATL. He beasted against the Bobcats last game however.
Astro Joe
February 6th, 2012
12:37 pm
Be careful who you quote. I heard Steve Holman say that K-Mart received a 3-year deal. Well, Holman was wrong on that one. 1-year deal for $2.5M (prorated I’m sure). Still, about 2-3 times what we would have been willing to pay. Y’all had it right, he took the money (he won’t get much PT behind Blake Griffin, unless he plays center alongside the PF).
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2012/02/clippers-kenyon-martin-contract.html
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
12:40 pm
Vava – I agree on Benson’s upside. He’s def. a potential 10-15 mpg rotational guy in the future. I just leave him in the DLeague till March 10th or so to allow him to play consistently against a higher level of competition. Since the Hawks aren’t practicing much because of the schedule, he wouldn’t be able to play consistently against our guys during practice.
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
12:50 pm
AJ – Thanks for the quote on KMart – I hadn’t bothered to look it up.
I wonder if the Suns would do a Hinrich and Marvin trade for Nash and Childress? Probably have to be some picks thrown in.
Let’s see, how about Marvin, Hinrich, our 2014 1st pick Top 20 protected, and our 2016 1st pick Top 20 protected for Nash, Childress and Lopez? And if our 1st picks are in the Top 20, the Suns automatically recieve our 2nd round pick the following season. I wonder if they would bite on something like that?
Could we win a Championship with:
PG – Nash/Teague/Pargo
SG – JJ/Green/Chilz
SF – Childress/TMac/Vlad
PF – Josh/Vlad/Ivan
C – ZaZa/Lopez/Ivan
I only do that trade if I think I’m smelling a Championship. You win Championships and worry about the future later in my opinion.
Backcourt of JJ, Nash, and Teague automatically becomes one of the best in the NBA.
vava74
February 6th, 2012
12:59 pm
I don’t know if anyone agrees with me but…
… wouldn’t we be better if we ran a few ISO plays for Teague?
He is finishing better at the rim and if gets some space he can get past by virtually anyone in the league.
Heck, he is getting to the rim with some frequency without getting the benefit of clear outs and with fairly poor picks set for him to drive.
Give him the space and he will finish the plays either with buckets, free throws or dimes.
vava74
February 6th, 2012
1:00 pm
Tonight, against Nash (who is a notoriously poor defender) I would use this diet to take the wind out of Nash.
By the third quarter Nash would be throwing up his lungs and we would be up by 20.
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
1:00 pm
Oh well, my proposed trade above fails the ESPN Trade Machine by $951,000 dollars. But again, I only do something that drastic if I think I’ve got a shot at a Championship by doing it. I’m not sure that trade moves us into elite status, but maybe closer.
Jody
February 6th, 2012
1:08 pm
@ SteveW
Lol at signing Josh to a 4 yr. 60 million deal. Who would pay him 15 million a year? That would be a cap killing contract. I wouldn’t be suprised if he asked for that much to resign in Atlanta which is why the Hawks should look to move him.
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
1:12 pm
Jody – It wouldn’t kill the cap too bad – JJ at 24 mill in his last year, Al at 12, and Josh at 15 – that’s 51 mill. Then you re-sign Teague and ZaZa after next season. You’ve still got some wiggle room on that cap space.
But I do see your point. I do wonder what the Hawks will do with Josh.
Jody
February 6th, 2012
1:17 pm
@SteveW
But we both know Josh’s game isn’t worth 15 million per. The Hawks would be smart to move him before the deadline. You may not get a big, but a package of him and Hinrich is sure to fetch a good return to begin getting ready for next season.
Astro Joe
February 6th, 2012
1:35 pm
Well, if you trade Josh, then the Hawks will go from the bottom third in home attendance to the bottom third in home attendance, because he is the only reason why so many of the Atlanta faithful trudge down to the arena. At least, that has been the story the past 4-5 years.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 6th, 2012
1:42 pm
“Ivan, a 6″8 unknown rookie, looks forward to playing Center.
Horford is 6″10 and shrinks away from it.” – Grandmaster Jeje
Quote of the day. Wasn’t Horford crying to management about how he prefers to play power forward?
Bravesfan79
February 6th, 2012
1:42 pm
If its this guy or dampier, i say the big Russian! It cant get much worse than erika dampier.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 6th, 2012
1:43 pm
We need more hard nosed players on our team instead of cry babies.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 6th, 2012
1:50 pm
Ivan Johnson is the heart and soul of this team right now. He plays hard every night and he doesn’t cry when asked to play out of position. Big Ivan Worldwide Clyde Salutes you.
Hawks Blog Legend Worldwide Clyde
February 6th, 2012
1:56 pm
Cry baby Horford lets point guards drive down the lane without trying to block a shot. Then complains about playing center. Get ya weight up mane.
O'Brien
February 6th, 2012
2:01 pm
AJ,
Again, I point to the fact that we’re not the only squad looking for big man depth yet the only guy signed in the last month (other than K-Mart who just recently became available) was Francisco Elston. If teams with lesser records couldn’t find someone to plug into their rotation, then should we really have expected a team that was 16-6 after January to just pick up any tall guy with a heart-beat?.
How many of those other teams lost their starting center for the rest of the season?
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
February 6th, 2012
2:01 pm
Why is Ivan not playing 35 minutes+ a game? What a joke. LD has a double standard. He leaves guys like Smoove in forever yet refuses to play the one player on this team who actually enjoys physical basketball and who actually wants to win
Grandmaster JeJe (GM)
February 6th, 2012
2:03 pm
We still have not signed a big or made a trade. Kenyon Martin signed a 1 year deal I thought
WTF ARE SUND AND ASG DOING RIGHT NOW??????????????????????
WTF ARE SUND AND ASG DOING RIGHT NOW??????????????????????
WTF ARE SUND AND ASG DOING RIGHT NOW??????????????????????
WTF ARE SUND AND ASG DOING RIGHT NOW??????????????????????
O'Brien
February 6th, 2012
2:04 pm
SteveW,
Somebody offers something crazy for Josh because they want to sell tickets.
Josh may be the biggest attraction out of all the current Hawks players, but the bottom line is we are still middle of the pack (at best) in attendance. There was a 2 year span in which we went 65-17 at home, but even that was not enough to improve our home attendance.
So I dont buy into the notion that “Josh sells tickets”.
Geemack
February 6th, 2012
2:07 pm
156 seasons in Atlanta, and only 1 championship (1995 Braves).
They say Atlanta fans don’t support their teams, but it hard to watch a boring movie, when you know how it’s gone end.
KevinM
February 6th, 2012
2:07 pm
I go to Philips to see Josh, but he definitely is not the main reason. I go to see a team that has played together for years play like a team that has an advantage over our opponent. The main issue is I think we’ve seen the best of this roster and my focus is on the starting 5.
Last summer, I said to keep Josh and Jeff, and move the rest. I still feel that way IF they put Josh back inside. Having Josh in the open court with the ball usually ends up a 50/50 risk.
Right now, though, in our situation, it may take moving Josh to get anything of value in return. Joe is not being considered a trade pawn, so we are going with what he gives us. Al isn’t being traded while inactive, and I would be surprised to see Kirk or Marvin being moved either. And siging Josh at 15M would not be a good idea either even on 1 year deals. Those numbers should be given to all-stars from your team. With the cap being our limitation, no one on this team should go beyond 15M, but too late for that huh?
I saw where SteveW said a lineup of D12/Josh and DWilliams would be amazing. But when you put 2 of those 3 at the line, you leave a lot of points off the board. Because of that alone, I don’t think Josh and D12 is a good combo anywhere.
If Sund isn’t considering moving any main players, then we really have no leverage to change anything. We will have to do with 10-day contracts and Zaza and Collins. I gotta say not a lot of optimism going forward with this plan.
vava74
February 6th, 2012
2:12 pm
The ONLY problem with Josh is COACHING.
If traded, we will not get equal value in return because people around the league have trouble gambling on guys who are considered a nut-case.
Josh has many lapses of reason but the balance is positive. When we lose, there is usually some guilt in Josh’s sheet but when we win there is also a lot of Josh’s contributions.
Quality coaching would maximize his skills. Unfortunately, although LD is not a bad X’nO’s coach, he is horrible managing rotations and instilling any sort of accountability.
pointguardslim
February 6th, 2012
2:15 pm
Northcyde- that’s a season mix of Fesenko. He’s like a worse version of Thabeet. Guy is terrible and horrible work ethic.
Buddy Grizzard- Hinrich is being paid $8 million and has a worse #s than Pargo no matter how you look at it. PER, Win Shares, whatever.
18mpg and 4ppg. He’s being played to showcase him for a trade if nothing else.
We need scoring. McGrady is a point guard at this stage and does not look comfortable or willing to try scoring.
Pargo may be “horrible” but he gives us offense and goes to the bench, after so many injuries Hinrich and McGrady are a bad fit together. Pargo has a role as a scoring guard who’s gone off at times and then sat back down.
MC- For the size, anything to move Josh Smith to the small forward, we get some easy free throws and easy fouls, get him running the wing in transition for easy points and get rid of Marvin for a real big man who can defend big men and shoot.
Smith is to small to play the PF and way to small for center. He cant shoot over big men or defend them. He posts up and runs pick and roll we get easy shots.
Blodus
February 6th, 2012
2:26 pm
Anyone know much about this guy from D-League, Brian Butch? he’s avg 19.8 pts, 12.5 rb 1.2bpg, and he’s 6-11.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 6th, 2012
2:27 pm
“I don’t know if anyone agrees with me but…
… wouldn’t we be better if we ran a few ISO plays for Teague?”
I’d prefer pick and roll plays for Teague, but against Nash, iso plays will probably work too. If he was a little better at passing to big men waiting in the paint when he draws defensive attention, it would work so much better.
Buddy Grizzard
February 6th, 2012
2:30 pm
“Hinrich is being paid $8 million and has a worse #s than Pargo no matter how you look at it. PER, Win Shares, whatever.” – pointguardslim
I understand their numbers are similar right now. That’s with Pargo getting steady minutes since the preseason. Kirk hasn’t played since the Orlando series. We also know what the ceiling for both players is. The ceiling for Kirk Hinrich is significant contributor to a playoff series victory as a starting point guard. The ceiling for Pargo is a third string point guard who is going to be cut to open a roster spot for a big man and won’t get another contract offer from any other team.
Ray
February 6th, 2012
2:32 pm
Marvin and Kirk should be moved at the trade deadline for what I don’t know, but you can get something in return for both of them.
Blodus
February 6th, 2012
2:33 pm
Anyone know much about this guy from D-League, Brian Butch? he’s avg 19.8 pts, 12.5 rb 1.2bpg, and he’s 6-11.
Buddy Grizzard
February 6th, 2012
2:34 pm
The stupidest thing Larry Drew is doing right now is cutting Marvin’s minutes. The guy is having a career year and if he got 5 more minutes a game and got his average closer to 15 ppg he would become major trade bait. The emergence of Ivan has made Marvin expendable, and in fact Marvin’s and Kirk’s contracts coming off the books is the only way the Hawks will be able to afford to extend Josh and Zaza. Ivan is actually perfect for the Hawks because he plays three positions competently.
Astro Joe
February 6th, 2012
2:36 pm
OB, we’re not looking to replace Horford with a stiff off the streets, we’re looking to find someone who can play when Zaza comes off the floor. And that guy needs to be better than Twin or Ivan. Do you really think that guy is available and Sund simply refuses to pull the trigger? I don’t, I think there are guys out there who would do no better and more than likely would be far worse. The 10-day options seems far more prudent than offering a guaranteed contract to a tall heart-beat.
pointguardslim
February 6th, 2012
2:37 pm
“The ONLY problem with Josh is COACHING.”
Xs and Os are terrible as well. His offense needs Horford because it needs the big men to make plays, the right reads off backdoors and curl cuts that is.
Drew never adjusted to the fact that Miami was playing a 3 point shooting lineup. They look for quick shots and can post us up but we kept looking to set lots of screens for jumpers. And you cant waste clock doing that. And the offense rarely ever results in FREE Throws.
Our pick and roll with Josh Smith is unlike any other. It comes on flex cuts where Smith has nowhere to roll too because Teague or Hinrich are on the wrong side of the key and the opposing guard can now defend Josh from rolling and then recover to their man.
Get the guards out of the corner and on the other side of the key when running the pick and roll and we get quick hitters. Thats how Collins and Popovich run it. Hell even Vinny Del Negro runs it. Thats how the Mosgov dunk happened (before CP3 came, no excuses).
Because of the defensive 3 second rule the lane is wide open. Tell Jeff/Joe he racks up assists by passing the ball. Jump pass bounce pass whatever, just get it there.
Vids to watch:
Hawks Convoluted PnR (Hinrich’s Man Helps Defend Smith’s Roll)
Hawks Convoluted PnR (Teague’s Man Helps Defend Smith’s Roll) –
These 2 vids shows the messed up flex offense and how the lane is clogged so we dont get easy dunks and layups from the roller.
- Hawks Finally Run Simple Screen and Rolls – Toronto –
shows what happens when you place 3 guys on the weakside of the key, and run 2 man game, simple screen and roll. Help cant come in time because of defensive 3 seconds.
The Showtime Lakers used to run this all the time with Worthy, Rambis, and Kareem.
pointguardslim
February 6th, 2012
2:37 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3abug9frGOY
pointguardslim
February 6th, 2012
2:38 pm
and please don’t remove my comments. I’ll be respectful this time around. You can ban me if I act an ass again. Please. Just want the Hawks to be successful.
Buddy Grizzard
February 6th, 2012
2:39 pm
Play Marv 35 mpg so we can do this:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7kb93ek
Blodus
February 6th, 2012
2:42 pm
are my posts not showing up or what?
Sautee
February 6th, 2012
2:43 pm
“I don’t know if anyone agrees with me but…
… wouldn’t we be better if we ran a few ISO plays for Teague?”
I’ve been saying for a while now, that at the very least, we should end quarters with Iso-Jeff, as opposed to Iso-Joe. More options, and less predictable.
Buddy Grizzard
February 6th, 2012
2:44 pm
Blodus never heard of the guy.
Blodus
February 6th, 2012
2:49 pm
His stats seem pretty good, a whole lot better compared to our draft pick.
Astro Joe
February 6th, 2012
2:54 pm
Buzzy, no doubt that if Sund and LD were working on creating more trade value for Marvin, then they would play him at least 32 minutes/game about 2-3 weeks before the start of the Trading Season.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 6th, 2012
3:01 pm
ESPN’s Daily Dime thinks the Hawks deserve only one All-Star… but they pick Josh and snub Joe.
Blodus
February 6th, 2012
3:03 pm
They are right. Joe does not deserve to be an all-star. He doesn’t deserve half his salary either.
SteveW
February 6th, 2012
3:03 pm
Blodus – He only played like 4 games in DLeague and the Hornets or somebody snatched him up.
When looking at DLeague stats, you have to look at the number of games played, and when their last game was, because there is so much come and go with Dleague – not just going to the NBA, but overseas contracts as well.
So alot of those 1-6 games stats are bloated because the player beasted a couple of games. And they may have been overseas or on an NBA roster for a couple of months also.