Atlanta Hawks at Hornets: Game thread

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northcyde,

You want to completely accentuate Jamal Crawford’s negatives, flaws and shortcomings, and discount his [Crawford's] positives, contributions and attributes. I’ll just wait and see how well Vlad-Rad, Willie Green, Jannero Pargo, T-Mac and Ivan Johnson will perform under playoff pressure and intensity especially on the road. The majority of the Hawks’ players don’t have the stones to withstand that type of game pressure like Jamal does.

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I love it

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“Bone . . . 70% of our fans secretly root against Marvin. I cheer for anybody who is helping us. Shoot, if I can cheer for Jamal Crawford, they can cheer for Marvin.” nothcyde

“Marvin had his 2nd very solid all around gm tonight. If he had disappeared, certain individuals would be on here bashing him in every way. But now that he’s starting to do what they said he couldn’t do, all we hear from them about Marvin is a deafening silence” Ken Strickland.

You two clowns must both work for Ringling Brothers. Marvin had two good games. Guess what, that’s what he gets paid to do. Out of all of the games he has played as a Hawk in his career, he has been noticeable in maybe 10 to 15 percent of those games. Not to mention that most of the shots he gets are wide open looks. He should be playing like this all the time. You both watch enough Hawks games to know the pattern. Marvin will play a couple of games well, then when we play a good team, he will fall, be out about a month, come back, take about a month to start playing well again, then repeat fall, out a month, comeback…………… Comparing Marvin to Jamal Crawford (LOL). Marvin has not seen a double team since high school. That should tell you all you need to know.

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Too bad Jamal folded like no other Hawk in history in those final 2 Bulls games. Had he just shown up in Game 5, when we had a chance to steal a game in Chicago, we may win Game 6.

But he was a complete no-show in both of those games.

So don’t type to me about our current guys possibly folding under playoff pressure. Jamal definitely folded under the pressure. In the Orlando series, both JJ and especially Kirk Hinrich played well in that series. Kirk was the main one who shut down Jameer Nelson.

Sorry dude. I’ll roll with Willie, T-Mac, Vlad, and Ivan . . over the one-man ‘tricky dribble’ show.

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Sometime ya feel like a nut, sometime ya dont! hahaha..

Thanks Ms Thang…….

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Rod from College Park,

Thanks for checkin’ ‘em. They don’t know a true baller from a hole in their heads. They will miss Jamal Crawford when the playoffs kick in; trust me.

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We need D12! D12 is built for a Championship run.. All NBA is built for the regular season….

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Slimjr,

Get your facts straight, homie. Jamal played in eight [8] second round playoff games for the Hawks. That was four games vs. Orlando and four games vs. Chicago. The Hawks went 2-8 in the second round of the 2010 and 2011 playoffs [combined] while Jamal Crawford was playing for the Hawks. Read my post @ 11:35pm to see Jamal’s second round playoff performances with the Hawks. Jamal did not play for the Hawks in the 2009 playoffs. The Cavs swept the Hawks in the second round 2009 playoffs; Jamal was not on the [Hawks] team during that 2009 playoff. Jamal Crawford played for Golden State in 2008-2009. Crawford signed with the Hawks in the summer of 2009.

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“Too bad Jamal folded like no other Hawk in history in those final 2 Bulls games. Had he just shown up in Game 5, when we had a chance to steal a game in Chicago, we may win Game 6.

But he was a complete no-show in both of those games” northcyde

Jamal was the reason we were in the second round. Not Hinrich, and not the 20 million dollar man. Jamal was the leading scorer in that series. The 20 million dollar man, Josh and All star AL could not do it without Jamal. The 20 million dollar man and Al Horford are the reason we lost the Chicago series. Neither guy showed up, and both are All stars and expected to raise there level of play. Again northcyde, please watch the games, and stop looking at stats. If you watched the Chicago series, especially the last two games that you speak of, Horford was a no show, Joe stunk, Josh played ok, Teague was great, and Jamal was the main focus of the best defense in the league. Please let me not fail to mention that the great Marvin Williams had his invisibility cloak on in the playoffs as usual. I like our team as constructed in the regular season, but if you think we will win in the playoffs because of Willie Green, Radmo, Marvin Williams,and Ivan, you obviously have not watched many playoff games.

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Give-us us free [Amistad] ,

“Thanks for checkin’ ‘em. They don’t know a true baller from a hole in their heads. They will miss Jamal Crawford when the playoffs kick in; trust me.”

Yeah these clowns never played a game in their life. Marvin has 3 good games, and he is better than Josh. Don’t take 6 years worth of history in to account. They no nothing about players that command double teams, and teams focusing defensive efforts to stop one guy. As I stated the guys they cheer for have not ever seen double teams in their NBA careers. Unless TMac steps up his offensive production, which I think he can, the Hawks won’t get out of the second round, and maybe not the first. We will see once the playoffs start.

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Rod . . the Hawks didn’t win a game in the Orlando series, unless the 20 million dollar man scored 20 points in a game. That’s a fact.

As for double teams, did Jamal EVER get doubled in the Orlando series? He gets credit for balling in the first 4 games of that series. No doubt on that. We definitely needed his scoring to beat Orlando.

But we also needed him in the Chicago series. And for the most part, he was a no-show in that series after Game 1.

The Kirk Hinrich injury may have been a game changer for this franchise. It finally gave full control of the PG spot to Teague. And by him balling the way he did in that series, it made Jamal completely expendable.

We are so much more efficient of a team ( especially on defense ) that it isn’t even funny. Maybe we can get an ATL vs Portland NBA Final, so that Jamal can show everybody just how good and clutch he really is.

LOL . . too bad vava isn’t on the blog right now.

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2-8…..crickets man…………….

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Give us free . . . there is more than one round in the playoffs. The Hawks problem isn’t getting out of the 1st round, it’s getting out of the 2nd round.

And let’s REALLY keep it real. The reason why we beat Orlando, has everything to do with their shooters shooting the ball like garbage. The strategy of letting Dwight go one on one against our bigs, combined with staying at home on their shooters, was the real reason why we won that series.

I mean, if you want to jump up and down and want me to give Jamal props in the Orlando series, I don’t have a problem with that. But where was he in the majority of the Chicago series? That’s where we REALLY needed that dude. He went 3 – 19 FG in the final 2 games of that series.

We needed him desperately when Teague and ISO were trying hard as they can to keep the Hawks in Game 5. Where was he?

When Teague went down in Game 6, where was he?

Ya’ll can stay in love with that streaky azz shooter if you want to. He’s right where he belongs . . . away from Atlanta. Thank God Jeff Teague proved that he could finally be a baller. Because if he didn’t, the Hawks would’ve done something drastic, and re-signed Jamal for about 2 – 3 years, and stunted Teague’s growth as a player.

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” a real PG can’t play alongside Jamal, because Jamal needs the ball in his hands. That’s been that dude’s history.”

That’s been the dude’s history because he’s played in dysfunctional offenses for most of his career. Amare looks an awful lot like a guy who needs the ball in his hands right now, and yet when he was in Phoenix he was a shining star on one of the most unselfish offenses the league has seen in years. These things are very much a function of team context.

I distinctly remember that last year Jamal was a beast at coming off screens and catching and shooting, the way Ray Allen does in Boston, and the way Joe often does here which works so well for him. With Jamal the added bonus is that his handles and quickness are so good that he can catch it and drive as well, which he often did when the Hawks ran that play with good results. The problem was that the Hawks were so bad at consistently executing the offense that they spent most of Jamal’s possessions giving him the ball and clearing out Woody-style instead of running the play for him — in other words, the same mistake they too often make with Joe.

Yes, the Hawks are better with four or five quality players coming off the bench than they were with one. I noticed this last year, which is why I spent about three months posting trades from the trade machine that would send Jamal away for multiple players (including one trade that would have brought T-Mac here from Detroit). But it’s pretty shortsighted to diminish Jamal’s ability and contributions as a result. If he was inefficient it’s because his role was expanded beyond what it should have been. But to compare Willie Green to him after a couple of games is nonsense. Give Willie Green the offensive responsibility Jamal had last year and he wouldn’t come anywhere close. He doesn’t have that level of talent. Keep in mind that nearly all the points he has scored this year have come against other teams’ second units.

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Rod from College Park,

Thanks for the help man. At first, I thought I was “singing a solo” defending Jamal Crawford. With you, we made it a duet [no homo]. Now, if we can just get at least five more bloggers defending Jamal, we could have a decent “chorus.” LOL

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“where was he in the majority of the Chicago series? ”

The bigger problem in the Chicago series was that he was matched up on Rose for most of his minutes, which is a horrible mismatch and routinely led to Rose shredding the Hawks’ D.

If they had done after the trade deadline last year what they should have been doing all along — starting Teague at PG, bringing Kirk and Jamal off the bench together with Jamal playing the 2 exclusively — Jamal’s defensive shortcomings wouldn’t have killed the Hawks nearly as much, and he would have gotten the ball in scoring position much more frequently, minimizing the number of bad shots taken. Same thing would have happened for Joe, for that matter.

I don’t miss Jamal with the bench we have now, but it’s not like last year’s Hawks would have been better without him, and it isn’t his fault he wasn’t used correctly.

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In other news, the Bulls want Przybilla, even though he would get about 5 minutes per game playing behind Noah and Asik. Pretty sure they are trying to get him just to keep him out of the hands of other Eastern Conference contenders.

Better act quickly Sund.

GET A DAMN BIG MAN

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Najeh . . whose fault is it that Jamal can’t play defense . . . or never made a commitment to play defense?

We’re talking about a dude who is quick as a cat when he has the ball on offense, but he’s a complete liability on defense? That’s his fault. And that’s the coach’s fault for giving Jamal extended minutes when he’s obviously hurting the team on the defensive end.

I mean seriously. Nate Robinson plays that same exact role in Golden St, and probably could’ve done the same thing Jamal did here. If Nate was given the green light to take 15 shots a game, he could’ve put up Jamal Crawford numbers, seeing that he’s a slightly better shooter career wise than Jamal.

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“Flip, a guy off the street, basically did the same thing that Jamal did, with virtually the same sort of efficiency.”

Yes, I co-signed the Willie Green to Flip comparison earlier. With that said, not all gunners are created equal. There is really only one difference between the 47-win 2008-09 Hawks, and the 53-win 2009-10 Hawks — Flip Murray gets replaced with Jamal. Other than that, it’s the same basic system on offense and defense, same coach, same core players, same rotational players, same everything.

It’s fair to say Jamal and Flip (or Jamal and Willie Green) have similar strengths and weaknesses, but this is a little like saying Jeff Teague and Derrick Rose have similar strengths and weaknesses, or like saying Josh is the closest thing in the league to LeBron (actual quote by Michael Gearon). That doesn’t mean one guy can’t be significantly better at those strengths than the other guy.

Flip is instant offense. Willie Green is instant offense. Jamal is probably the best instant offense there is. That difference may not be worth $9 million more per year than Flip on the salary cap, but it was worth most of that 6 win increase from 2009 to 2010.

“Jamal’s worth to a team is that he has the ability to score in bunches, and make extremely difficult shots . . . when he’s hot. ”

He can also make much easier shots, get in the lane, get fouled, etc. Teams rely on his ability to make difficult shots as a crutch. That doesn’t mean that’s the only thing he can do.

“When he’s cold, he shouldn’t even be on the floor.”

Because he is a horrible defender, I agree. But if you are saying this from a purely offensive-minded standpoint, you could say this about pretty much anyone. If Joe was a bad defender and he was having one of his 1/9 shooting games like the first half against Detroit, would he still be justified in shooting his way out of it, as you often want him to do?

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“whose fault is it that Jamal can’t play defense . . . or never made a commitment to play defense?”

You are not going to get an argument from me regarding his defense. His D sucked, and watching the Hawks try to get by in crunch time with him and Bibby in the back court together was nauseating. Josh Smith deserved DPOY votes just for having to compensate for those two every game in the 4th quarter. I am only saying that you are not giving him the appropriate amount of credit by saying Willie Green (or Flip Murray or most of the other instant offense players in the league) could do what he does on offense.

Lil’ Nate may very well have put up similar numbers as Jamal in the same role, because he is nearly as talented and maybe more so. What he lacks in ball handling ability compared to Jamal, he makes up for with his athleticism. Can’t make it into the league at his height without having extraordinary talent. That still doesn’t mean Willie Green could do the same thing. It just means that Nate is on Jamal’s level talent-wise, while Willie and Flip are still several notches below.

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“We’re talking about a dude who is quick as a cat when he has the ball on offense, but he’s a complete liability on defense? That’s his fault. And that’s the coach’s fault for giving Jamal extended minutes when he’s obviously hurting the team on the defensive end.

I mean seriously. Nate Robinson plays that same exact role in Golden St, and probably could’ve done the same thing Jamal did here. If Nate was given the green light to take 15 shots a game, he could’ve put up Jamal Crawford numbers, seeing that he’s a slightly better shooter career wise than Jamal.”

Jamal is a bad defender when he is asked to check smaller quicker point guards. Jamal is not a point guard anymore. He is 6′5. He is too big to play point, but too small to defend 2’s like Joe and Kobe especially in the post. Nate is a point guard, and is small enough and quick enough to stay in front of point guards. Nate was not here, so you don’t know what he would have done. This is not fantasy sports, it’s real.

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Nortcyde jasmal is a good ball player who was put in a pg slot which he wasn’t.at least when he went iso he didn’t dribble for 10sec & continually disrupt our whole offense like Joe often does.joe is a streak shooter who can shoot you out of the game. Joe would be better if he went quicker & would let someone else set him up. I really believe he takes us out of our offense making us look bad.
LD is weak allowing him to do this.

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Who cares about Jamal? We have a good team and we are talking about Jamal.

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Probably no better than 8-2 with him. Just sayin. Are we a better team WITH Al? Yeah slightly.(If Zaza could catch a pass maybe not) Hell, I actually like what Zaza gives us at center when he starts, as opposed to the NEW Al Horford. Now dont get me wrong, I’d take “Boss” over Zaza anyday. But give me Zaza over that hang out on the perimeter and shoot fadeaway’s, and I ‘m too soft to play center guy.

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