Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 107, Pistons 101 (OT)

Hinrich replaced Teague with 3:48 left in the third and didn’t come back out. “I was just gassed,” he said. “I just didn’t have any legs. Offensively, I think I’ve got a little ways to go obviously.”
***

no, his defense has a ways to go. His defense on Knight was an egregious manifestation of putrid display

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“Drew didn’t have an update on Teague’s sprained left ankle and I didn’t see Teague in the locker room. “I thought he was going to be able to go back in,” Drew said.
Hinrich replaced Teague with 3:48 left in the third and didn’t come back out. “I was just gassed,” he said. “I just didn’t have any legs. Offensively, I think I’ve got a little ways to go obviously.”

Hope Teague gets back quickly! Hinrich stepped up….Good job…

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Hinrich with 9 assist! good job.. He’s still rusty but contributed!

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Sund will get an extension if the club is not sold..Just watch….

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I am glad the Hawks didn’t hire Mark Jackson..

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1. MC… Wouldn’t a legit rebounding free agent center plus Hinrich be better than anything you could get for Hinrich in trade? I know of one who played last season in POR and CHA. Injury-prone, sure. But in a shorter season, seems less risky.

2. ESPN trade machine says Kaman can only be obtained with an 1 for 1… so, while I like Kaman, it seems the new CBA will only allow that to happen if you’re willing to give up Josh. (Al is BYC.)

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Who grades a GM according to the quantity of moves he makes?

Sometimes the best move is no move… as much as some Hawks fans, in particular, probably detest that point.

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Without a solid BIG Center… this team will fail in the playoffs again

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Got the win and now its on to N.O….

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Happy for the win. Still plenty of room for improvement, but JJ was Superman in the second half, and carried us home (despite LD). And props to Marvin tonight. I think LD is making it harder to get a good read on him because his substitution pattern for Marvin is very consistent, regardless of how Marvin is playing.

Hawks need a big.

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Thank goodness the Hawks can beat these 2nd tier teams, however beating 1t’s is a diff story. Glad we are not the Knicks. Josh needs a shock collar for whenever he chucks one up from more than 15ft, but no one on the Hawks seems 2 have the ba!!s 2 say anything . Oh well.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

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doc,

You’ll appreciate this. George Karl talking to CNNSI.

“We don’t have superstar players, but we have a lot of guys who can play basketball,” he says one moment.

“It’s refreshing to have a more coach-able team,”.

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O’B, ’superstars’ has gotten George Karl fired twice before, lol (Seattle and Milwaukee), so I can understand his thoughts. But Karl seems like the new Jerry Sloan, who will always be a wonderful coach, but never get a ring.

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Old Water Skis!

“The entire team looked off/flat from the start. They found some gas late and really got rolling in the OT.”
-Section 303-
_______

This reminds me of my first attempt at water skiing on Lake Jackson, down in South Georgia years ago. The boat was a 30 year old slugg and the jet skis were wooden and looked like an antique relic.

She gave the boat some gas and it went from 0 to 5 in 180 seconds. I drank half the lake, never got it up and gave up skiing from behind The U.S. Minnow.

Unlike the Hawks I never got it rolling in the OT.
________

I’m pleased to hear that Drew thought Jeff might go back in. That replay was nasty, but we’ll see how the cabin pressure and a night’s sleep affects Jeff in the morning. Fingers crossed. This season is brutal fellas.

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And Kaman really isn;t an upgrade over Zaza either. Not this season.

If the Hawks were treading water at .500, then yeah, definitely deal those two for Kaman, to give us the ability to start over. But not now. Subtracting Marvin and Zaza, and adding Kaman, does NOT improve the Hawks.

Even the trade machine says that it would result in 4 more losses if we picked up Kaman, but lost the other 2.

LOL . . and we’d STILL need a big man.

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I rather Atlanta start slow and finish strong like they did against Minn. Mil. and Det. than start fast and fade like they did against Phil. We are all getting mad at Josh taking those jumpers but there are times where he’s hitting him at a more constant rate than some of the other guys of the team that are suppose to be jump shooters.

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o’b thanks for the reference to karl. if you remember i posted an interview of him talking about the trade while getting in his car right after it went down. he really looked like the cat with the canary in his mouth. his sly smile said it all. in the mean time the knicks have fallen back and walsh who tried to hold off on the trade and probably got over ruled by absentee gm isiah and dolans, pulled the trigger.

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@MC- Zaza was jumper happy??????? How about Josh Brick!!!!!!!!!

Smoove was 1-9 on jumpers when they counted (he hit that 3 in OT when we were up by 7). The book is out on the Hawks and I’ve been saying this for the past month-teams take Smoove’s defender overload the other side of the floor and force a tough jumpshot from Joe (which he made tonight) or swing the ball to a wide open Smoove.

You are right MC-this was an exact carbon copy of the Bucks game….THEY DID THE EXACT SAME THING!!!!!

The sad things is….Smoove obliges them and takes the wide open jumper, often times bricking it.

Smoove has reached his peak as a player. He is an exceptional weak-side defender, average on-ball defender (worse this year since he lost weight), with absolutely zero offensive game. Terrible Jumper, no low post moves, and erratic decision making. What’s worse he thinks he can make the jumper consistently and teams continue to bait him. His attitude and demeanor become extremely poor when things aren’t going well. He complains to the officials, wines to his teammates, and that stuff rubs off.

What’s worse LD doesn’t seem to realize this!!!!!!!! When teams overload Joe’s side of the floor with SMoove’s defender, sub Smoove for Vlad Rad and punish them with open jumpers. That or send Smoove baseline toward the basket. How hard is that? I’m a mere blog person and can spot the team’s adjustments better than our coach. Why does LD run Joe into the ground anytime things get tough?????? Our bench has been strong all year. They left the game tied in the 2nd quarter and got hardly any burn in the 2nd half. I’ve been calling all year for different lineup matches. When things go poorly you have to mix it up, not ride the starters into the dirt. LD should take a page out of Pop’s book. Pop pulled his starters 1 min into the 2nd half against us bc he didnt like the effort and execution. LD does the opposite and gets the corresponding result.

BTW it’s no coincidence that the 4 guys that have had big nights against us these past 2 games have all been PF-Bonner,Blair, Maxiell, Monroe. All matching up against Smoove……..

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Scoop, maybe the time of morning has impaired your judgement. But on a bad shooting night, Josh was 4 for 11 on jumpers. That is just below the league average of 40% on jumpers. And Josh shot 75% on free throws. Not to mention, he added 8 assists with only 1 turnover, to go with 11 rebounds and 3 blocks (and a steal, but hey who’s counting). Josh also had the highest +/- on the team (again) at +10 for the game. And every meaningful category he is first or second on the team (except for assists, where he’s 3rd behind Teague and Joe). How does someone with such ‘terrible’ shot selection, still manage to shoot basically 50% from the field, when nightly, he’s matched up against players who are 2-3 inches taller than him?

Last season, Josh shot the same percentage from beyond the arc, as Lebron, and better than Dwayne Wade. Even perennial Hawks’ pessimists Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Shaq, each say Josh Smith is the leader of this team, and the only player on the team with upside. Josh says Joe is the leader, because he doesn’t care about that bravado battle. It wasn’t until Al became the leader in the media, that the chemistry problems began. Because Joe was leading the team on the offense, and Josh was leading the team on defense. Yet, Al was getting the respect of a difference maker, when even for a center, his numbers were marginal at best.

So when you say give Vlad Josh’s minute, you qualify yourself as a NBA Jam on PS3 player who only cares about video game basketball. Vlad is shooting 37% from the field, and is easily the worst defensive player on the team, at his position.

By the way, Monroe is a center, not a PF. And Maxiell had majority of his points in the first half, when Josh was in foul trouble. And Bonner got majority of his points on TEAM DEFENSE, not against Josh. When Josh would provide help defense, teammates weren’t rotating fast enough. And Dujuan Blair had THREE rebounds in 30 minutes of playing time. His points came off of Tony Parker penetrating and dishing under the rim, not from man up defense.

Scoop, you’re making yourself sound like Terrence Moore, Mr. King of Judging a Game by the Box Score Articles, not by watching it and understanding basketball.

By the way, Josh is leading this team to the third best record in the Conference. And the two teams ahead of the Hawks, have both been handed L’s by the Hawks, and should’ve been handled two, if it wasn’t for LD mismanaging the last 30-45 seconds of those games in regulation (though LD has done a good job of coaching overall this season).

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Joe played like a superstar in the second half last night. He was downright unstoppable. Yes, it was against a sub-par team in the Pistons, but still, it’s nice to see. Marvin was also impressive. He should have a larger role in the offense than he does, especially with Al being out. He’s, arguably, the second best offensive player among the starters, and he knows how to move without the ball. Maybe third, if you want to put Teague ahead of him. Anyway, he looked effective and efficient tonight, as well. Our perimeter players essentially won this game for us, tonight, which is nice to see at times, but the frontcourt struggles have me worried.

Our frontcourt basically got dominated by Monroe and Maxiell, neither of which is known as a dominant big man. Both men played well, but they shouldn’t have been allowed to around 20 points each so easily. This was another game in which our interior depth was exploited. None of our bigs could defend either Monroe or Maxiell. Josh was getting completely dominated on both ends by both of them due to their size and strength advantages, and Zaza just doesn’t have the athleticism to consistently contest shots at the rim. Collins did an adequate job of keeping them from getting deep position on the block and backing him down, but his sub-par mobility makes it tough to keep him on the floor since he has difficulty defending against mobile big men and in pick-and-roll situation. Ivan is stout and has a strong lower base, but his lack of height and length makes him a bit ineffective against big men who are adept at scoring inside. Horford could have helped out with those problems tonight, but even with him, I think we could use more. Our depth is at the power positions is becoming more and more of a known weakness. The Pistons and Spurs have both attempted to pound the Hawks inside. The difference is that the Spurs have the outside threats to actually put the Hawks away, while the Pistons clearly did not.

Even though we won this game, I didn’t like how much the team looked overmatched inside. If we get to the playoffs and actually have to face a team that effective inside, I don’t like our chances, because good teams will know how to key in on Joe and our perimeter players, which leaves us with no inside scoring presence and also, no consistent interior defense. Josh is a very good help defender, but his individual defense in the post is something that big men who are adept at scoring inside, and guys who have size and strength advantages, are going to look to attack. Josh is tenacious on defense, even in 1 vs. 1, but there’s no much he can do when a guy either overpowers him and backs him down, or out-wits him and gets him into the air and then finishes easily at the rim. Collins, Zaza, and Ivan are situationally useful on the defensive end as well, but not versatile enough to cover all scenarios. I really hope we get another big man to address this problem, especially while Horford is out, when it is accentuated even more.

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“It hardly mattered that Josh was missing Js…”

I find this statement to be a bit silly. It’s an opinion, and certainly the author is entitled to it, but I beg to differ, even if the author may have been joking a bit. Josh took 10 jumpshots tonight and only made 3 of them. When you are in a close game, and you insist on taking a high volume of low-percentage shots, it has a large effect on your team and the game. When you are second on the team in attempts, and shooting a low percentage, you are taking away better shots from more efficient scorers and basically forcing the offense to flow as you go. If Josh was taking high percentage shots and making them at a consistent rate, it wouldn’t matter how many he took as long as there weren’t better options out there, but let’s not try to insist that it doesn’t matter when you gamble or squander a large portion of the team’s offensive opportunities on low percentage shots.

Josh’s shot total tonight comprised approximately 20% of the total shot attempts for the team. If one player is going to consume that portion of a team’s total offensive opportunities, the shots need to at least be high percentage shots. In a game like this one, those seven missed long jump shots could have been a huge swing in the game, when you consider that poor or low percentage shots not only take points away from your team, but also can lead to easy points for the opposing team (e.g., via fastbreak points).

So, in conclusion, it did matter that Josh was missing jumpshots, it mattered a lot, especially when you consider that he shouldn’t be taking that many jumpshots to begin with. I don’t know why it is so difficult for some players to realize that they are wide open on the outside for a reason. Defenses count on them taking and missing shots are low percentage shots for those particular players. That’s part of the defensive plan. It’s not difficult to understand.

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“Its funny that the coaches in the league viewed Josh as the best defensive PF in the game just two seasons ago.”

Just out of curiosity, where did you get this statistic from?

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http://www.nba.com/2010/news/04/20/howard.defensive.poy/index.html

Eric, Josh finished second in DPOY voting to Dwight Howard.

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“http://www.nba.com/2010/news/04/20/howard.defensive.poy/index.html

Eric, Josh finished second in DPOY voting to Dwight Howard.”

Oh, I see what you were referring to now. Just for the record though, the coaches don’t vote for defensive player of the year, the media (a panel of sportswriters) votes for those awards.

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“Vlad is shooting 37% from the field, and is easily the worst defensive player on the team, at his position.” – Ramon

If I had a dime for every time I saw an opposing big man get deep post position on Rad and score easily, I’d be better off. I’ve come to the opinion that Vlad’s occasional hot shooting nights are not frequent enough to offset the defensive liability he is every time he steps on the court.

“And the two teams ahead of the Hawks, have both been handed L’s by the Hawks, and should’ve been handled two, if it wasn’t for LD mismanaging the last 30-45 seconds of those games in regulation.” – Ramon

Those two losses will come back to haunt the Hawks. The losses to Houston and San Antonio were to be expected. The Hawks are doing amazingly well, especially in spite of injuries. But don’t forget to look at the standings at the end of the regular season and check out the 1st round match-ups. If the Hawks end up with a draw that is not favorable, ask yourself where those two wins would have put them.

Right now if the Hawks had those two wins, which they should have had, they’d be a half game ahead of Chicago for the best record in the Eastern Conference.

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Sorry, Ramon, but I think you need to check the facts on the voting. The coaches don’t vote for DPOY, MVP, etc.

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Josh’s play will improve as the PG play improves. Steve Nash would have made him an allstar already. Give Teague some time (and Kirk too for that matter).

IMO, Josh’s best year was Woody’s last year, when Josh shot 50% from the floor, took almost no 3’s, grabbed 2.8 offensive rebounds, and recorded 4.2 assists, 2.1 blocks, and 1.6 steals per game. That’s the year that Joe, Jamal & Bibby really had it going (each was shooting a high % and combined for 48 pts a game). The offense should not run through Josh as much early in the clock. He’s much more effective when he gets the last touch (field goal attempt in rhythm) or the next to the last touch (assist). However, this also means that we need to see more movement without the ball from Josh.

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Ramon,

Your link is for the All-Defensive teams, not defensive player of the year. That’s not what I was referring to. The Kia Performance awards, which include Defensive Player of the Year, are voted on by a panel of media members, not coaches.

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Ramon,

My point stands. I never said I disagreed with what you said about how good Josh is defensively, I just wanted to make it clear that that the Kia Performance awards are voted on by a media panel, not coaches. You seem to think that I was trying to argue that Josh was not as good defensively as you were saying, but that was not the case at all. All I was doing was clarifying who actually does the voting for DPOY. So, clearly, I made my point now that you realize who actually votes for that award.

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It really blows that New Orleans is hiding Chris Kaman by not letting him play while they try to deal him. I would love to see a Kaman/Zaza match-up to settle the issue for me and Najeh once and for all.

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I said during the game in the game thread that Kenyon Martin was probably at home watching the game and thinking Miami is probably a better option for him. I’m glad the Hawks pulled it out in the end and I hope they keep winning. Martin will make his decision soon and he may decide that the Hawks have the biggest interior hole to fill among the top teams in each conference. He may decide he’d rather try to make an impact with the Hawks than try to ride LeBron and Wade’s coattails to an NBA championship.

KEEP WINNING HAWKS.

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Ramon was gagging on Josh Smith so hard and so ready to defend him, he didnt even realize Eric’s point had nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with how good or bad Josh Smith is.

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Here’s my take on Josh Smith:

Personally, I think that he had his best season of his career (so far) in 2009-10. That year, he averaged 15.7 ppg on a career high 50.5% shooting from the field, along with 8.7 rebounds, 4.2 assists (career high) , 1.6 steals (career high), and 2.1 blocks. Even though he may be scoring slightly more this year at 16.2 ppg, I feel like the 09-10 season was easily the best offensive season of his career as well. Mainly, I feel that way because of his efficiency and shot distribution that season. Josh took 12.3 shots/game in 09-10 and the majority of those attempts (6.7) came at the rim. Josh’s focus that year was more on defense and attacking the rim. He finally toned down on trying to be an all-around scorer and just focused on what he was good at for the most part, and look what it got him: all-defensive 2nd team honors and second place in DPOY voting. I feel like Josh has slightly regressed since then. Let me explain why.

This season, Josh is again trying to be a scorer, and insisting on playing to his weaknesses. He is taking the 2nd most shot attempts on the team (approx. 2 more than he attempted during 2009-10), and more importantly, the majority of his attempts (6.3) are coming from 16-23 feet where he shoots 39%. I can respect that Josh is improving on his jumpshooting and has worked on it, but Josh has always been more effective scoring the ball inside that he has been outside, yet he continues to migrate his game more and more outside. Josh’s overall shooting percentage of 47.4% isn’t bad, and it’s just below the 48% league average for starting PFs, but the problem is that Josh could be much more efficient and effective if he’d just play to his strengths, and he fails to realize that. He’s taking more shots this year than and barely averaging .5 more points than he did in what I felt was his best season, due to his decreased shooting efficiency compared to that season.

At some point, and I’m starting to doubt that it will ever happen, Josh needs to realize that when he settles for long jump shots just because he’s open, he is playing to his weaknesses and giving opposing defenses exactly what they want. Josh is always going to be open from outside because teams respect his interior scoring and know that that is his greatest strength and want to take it away. They know that his outside shooting is a weakness, so they bait him into taking long shots, and he happily falls for it. I don’t know why Josh wants to play on the perimeter so badly, but that’s just not his game. When he camps out on the wing, and then receives the ball wide open out there, it’s not a good situation, because he either has to take a low percentage shot or has to attempt to create something by driving or passing, and if he doesn’t choose to pass, it’s a big gamble because he’s not the best ball handler on drives either, and teams know that. The good defensive teams are smart, they are going to try and take away your greatest strength, and for Josh, that strength is in the paint. It’s simple to understand. If you’re a great shooter, teams are going to crowd you and take away your air space to force you to either pass or put the ball on the floor. For Josh, they know he is a good interior scorer, so they are going to clog the paint against him and simply back off and encourage him to shoot. To this day, he fails to realize that. instead of working on his inside game or cutting to the hoop when his man leaves him, he just camps out on the wing waiting to get the ball for a jump shot. It’s maddening, and that is why I refuse to believe that he is improving just because he is averaging slightly more points while taking more shots and shooting below 50% as a big man.

I will give Josh credit for his rebounding this season, which is up (likely due to the fact that Horford is out), but outside of that, I can’t say that he is really improving in any other area, and that is due to his stubborn insistence on playing to his weaknesses. If he finally changes his mind set one day, then I believe he will improve beyond the best season of his career,but if not, I fear that he may just have more up and down seasons and peak where we see him right now.

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I just think Josh Smith is one of the most talented guys in the NBA. His issue, to me, is that his basketball skills coming into the NBA were raw. Not only because he came straight out of high school but also maybe because he started playing late (I don’t really know). He’s improved his outside shooting (still has some issue with free throws, mostly mental I think, he still needs to learn to calm down like McGrady is now). I think of him like The Human Highlight Film. By the end of his career, which was quite long, I was fine with Dominique taking jumpers and he shot well over 80% from the line. I may have been too young to see the beginning of his career but I bet he was another guy you would cringe for when they took an outside shot, at first. Josh Smith provides such intangible traits to the game of basketball, I find it hard to really criticize the guy. He’s still well under 30 years old. I absolutely love the guy. He put in the work to get fit this year and if he doesn’t make the All Star team it will absolutely shock me.

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SNUBBED!

“His feel for the game is great and his status as a Hall of Famer and one of the top 50 players of all time (which I cannot remember if he is officially listed or not) is in no doubt in my mind.” -kshizzle-
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Nique was SNUBBED as a 50 Greatest player and did NOT receive his Nascar Designed leather bomber jacket but, Lenny Wilkens and Scottie Pippen were included?

Shaq was included after only being the league what 2 years at the time? Nique’ was devastated, however he was redeemed when awarded a HOF honor for his contributions to the NBA game.

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LOL .. . I wish I would’ve saw Antwan’s post an hour ago. It would’ve saved me from doing a lot of typing, and I could’ve started with this:

The top 10 guys in shot attempts from 16 – 23 feet are these guys:

( Requirements: Played in at least 10 games . . and average at least 25 minutes a game )

1) Aldridge – 6.6
2) Josh Smith – 6.3
3) Boozer – 5.2
4) Bosh – 5.1
5) Nowitkzi – 5.1

6) Garnett – 5.1
7) Blatche – 5.0
8] Amare – 4.9
9) Scola – 4.8
10) Griffin – 4.6

Now . . here are those same players, and where they rank percentage wise amongst each other, and amongst all PFs ( 29 qualifying PFs )

1) Dirk – 56% ( 2nd )
2) Boozer – 46% ( t-5th )
3) Aldridge – 46% ( t-5th )
4) Garnett – 45% ( 10th )
5) Bosh – 45% ( 11th )

6) Scola – 40% ( 14th )
7) Smith – 39% ( 15th )
8] Blatche – 35% ( 18th )
9) Griffin – 33% ( 19th )
10) Amare – 29% ( 25th )

Smith’s jumpshot has improved. These days, when he’s hot, he makes them in bunches now. He’s still streaky though.

When you see the 6.3 attempts per game, that’s a little too high for a guy who is just an average shooter from that range. The top 5 guys in percentage from that range all shoot 45% or more. They’re the type of guys who will rarely have a 2 – 9 shooting night from that range, and will be more consistent shooters.

Guys like Smith and especially Blatche will run extremely hot and cold. Griffin is a 2nd year player who has basically been instructed to shoot that shot to see if he can improve on it. So despite his poor percentage from that range, he gets a pass ( even if he shouldn’t ). Amare without a good pick and roll PG in NY, has been flat out horrible from 16 – 23 feet. He’s a career 45% shooter from that range though. So when Baron Davis is healthy enough to help the Knicks, maybe Amare’s shot will come back. He’s been horrible though.

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I could see Josh making the All-Star team this year, not necessarily because he’s the best choice as one of the backup forwards, but because of the current situation in the East. The starting forwards will most likely be Lebron and Carmelo. That leaves Bosh, Amare, KG, Boozer, Pierce, Deng, Granger, and Iguodala as the main remaining competition. Bosh should be a lock since he’s having a nice season and his team has one of the best records in the league. After that, it’s kind of wide open. KG and Pierce are playing for a losing team right now, and neither one is having a year with stats that will blow you away, so they may have a tough time making the team. Pierce is playing great lately, but again, his team’s record will likely prevent him from making the team. Granger and Iguodala are both playing on teams with some of the best records in the East, but neither one is having a great statistical season, so that rules them out a bit. Boozer and Deng are kind of wildcards. Both guys are putting up respectable numbers, not great, but respectable, and they play for the team with the league’s best record, so it’s possible that at least one of them may be selected as an all-star reserve, but I doubt both will be selected. Also, Amare’s stats are way down this year and his team has a losing record, so without the fans selecting him, it wouldn’t make much sense for him to make the team.

I’d say that puts Josh in a pretty good position to make the All-Star team this year. There will be 7 reserve slots available, and he could fall into 1 of 4 of those possible slots (one of the two backup forwards, or one of the final 2 selections).

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Now let’s go the other way.

Same parameters ( 10+ games . . 25 minutes per game . . power forward )

These are the top 10 in shot attempts around the rim

1) Griffin – 7.4
2) Lee – 6.4
3) Cousins – 6.3
4) Love – 6.1
5) Aldridge – 5.8

6) Varejao – 5.6
7) Amare – 5.4
8] Humphries – 5.4
9) Bosh – 5.2
10) Smith – 5.1

And here is where they rank amongst each other and amongst the qualifying PFs

1) Bosh – 73.4% ( 5th )
2) Griffin – 70.3% ( 7th )
3) Smith – 70.1% ( 9th )
4) Amare – 66.7% ( 11th )
5) Lee – 65.7% ( 13th )

6) Aldridge – 62.2% ( 18th )
7) Humphries – 60.9% ( 22nd )
8] Varejao – 60% ( 23rd )
9) Love – 58.2% ( 25th )
10) Cousins – 49.6% ( 28th )

League average is 64% around the rim. Josh is at 70%. Yet, while Josh’s 6.3 attempts from 16 – 23 feet is a career high . . Josh’s 5.1 attempts around the rim is his 2nd lowest in 6 years, despite his 70% shooting from that area being a career high.

Do you follow that?

Josh has gone from being a F shooter from outside, to being a C- shooter from outside.

Josh has gone from being a C+ finisher on the inside, to being a B finisher on the inside.

Yet, Josh is shooting more from the outside, than on the inside.

If the light ever comes on, he’s an instant All-Star. But if he keeps trying to prove people wrong, and try to be Lamarcus Aldridge, he’ll always be on the fringe.

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The Hawks will be lucky to be over .500 after Feb.

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Big shots down the stretch. I like Hinrich for this team. He is much more of a playmaker than I ever gave him credit for being, not just a spot up shooter.
We need a Big, badly!!!!
K-Mart shoppers, anyone??

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Nortycyde!

N I C E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man you are stuffing the stat sheet like a super star. You good. You got game. (she winks)

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Great comments and backing them up with stats

Smoove played a great game last night. With Al out he has to be one of the players on this team that initiates offense when the play called gets defended. JJ can’t take every shot or initiate every drive. I think you will also find that a lot of his jumpers come from being passed the ball late in shot clock (although a couple of times a game he will make you scream NOOO!!). Smoove may not be perfect but I am glad I have had the opportunity to watch him play and I think he plays to win and plays very hard.

14 and 6. Wow. Right there with the elite teams despite losing a key player and having a bad ownership situation that prevents us from getting the “great” players (like Melo LOL). Hawks didn’t play well tonite but still won. Isn’t that the kind of team we want? Proud of these guys and love the defense and the growth of LD as a coach.

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Right on “givetheguyabreak’. Josh is awesome! Dude’s a double-double almost every night. Almost a triple-double last night. We’ve kept winning as a team w/o Horford. I doubt we would be saying the same thing if Smoove had gotten hurt.

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Not so sure @ Grow.

Remember, the debut of Ivan Johnson came on a night in which Josh was playing terrible, and the team got a spot with Ivan and Horford at the 4 and 5 spot.

So let’s say Josh went down. You’d now have Horford at the 4 and Zaza at the 5. We’d be a better rebounding team with that frontline. We’d be weaker defensively. We’d probably be better offensively.

The difference this year is that Ivan is a guy we can bring off the bench to provide solid defense on perimeter oriented 4s ( although he can’t guard big people down low, much like Horford ). And if we opt to go with Vlad at the 4, that gives us a “stretch 4″ to play in short stints to open up the offense.

I know people have short memories around here, but Josh Smith was playing terrible to start the season. He struggled big time offensively until he went off in the Charlotte game. Then he had a great 6 or 7 game run. Offensively, he’s tailed off a bit in these last 5 games, but he’s still good in other areas, especially rebounding.

Like in the case of Horford, we could’ve survived thus far without Smith as well. And if T-Mac was healthy and JJ went down, I’d say the same if JJ were to go down as well. But we are getting into the real tough part of our schedule. So we’ll see how well we hold up without Horford in these games coming up.

Since I’m in “stat mode”, let me look at something else that I used to look at last year.

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Dwight told teammates to stay in locker room / go home if they didn’t want to win. Same thing he said after game 4 in series vs us last year

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Northcycle: Thanks. Kaman would be a good piece to our team but we have no pieces to match up that make sense.

I agree.

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With Josh Smith they have 2 options….

Sack LD and bring in a coach who will actually discipline Josh and end up making him a better player

or

Extend LD and trade Josh.

I know which I’d prefer.

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scoop is on fire! dead on assessment.

cannot play with them, cannot win with them, cannot coach them. can’t do it. i want winners. i want people that want to win.

not morons who come down and shoot a long jumper with 20 secs left on the shot clock during a crucial run in the 4th quarter.

josh is a freaking joke. and people who defend him are even funnier.

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That sequence near the end of regulation when Kirk demanded the ball from JJ and immediately swung it to Marvin for a 3 from the corner shows one of the veteran moves we’ve missed since he was injured. I like Teague, don’t get me wrong. He defends, can break down defences, and usually handles the ball well. But, at times, he seems to not know where to put the ball in order to get other players their best shots. Not Kirk: he saw MW stepping back for his favorite shot and wanted to get the ball to him. Not that JJ wasn’t hot and might have done as so as well, but MW had the best shot. That’s team ball. That’s what we need more of.
Josh, to his credit, played hard to the end, even when his shot wasn’t falling. Good win, coming from behind on the road.

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Vlad is a second-rate version of Jamal Crawford — bad defense, and extremely streaky shooting.

Whoever is defending Josh Smith’s jumpers is insane. The guy ruins the offensive runs we go on with his brick-layered shot selection, and makes stupid mistakes with the ball almost every game. Also, don’t you think we would rebound better if the idiot wasn’t trying to shoot jump shots? I really think the guy is borderline Attention Deficit Dis – What? The guy will always be a wasted talent because of his stubbornness and low basketball IQ.

Center or not — this team will go nowhere unless we fix our offense. We would be losing these games even with Al. THERE IS NO OFFENSIVE GAMEPLAN!

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melo is worse that osh

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why didn’t janero pargo play? he’s much better than kirk hinrich. larry drew doesn’t have a clue as to what he’s doing. this game shouldn’t have been close the hawks should have ran away with the lowly pistons but thanks to drew and his stupidity, they didn’t.. way to go rick sund.this is the type of team you want, low budget and will get ousted in the first round without a quality center.

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LOL . . we’d ironically still need another big though.

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northcyde, did you see my email or see the Commish Note on Fantasy B’ball?

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Not a big stat guy, but even if Josh took 2-3 fewer long 2’s per game, it really wouldn’t change much (other than perhaps certain people’s perceptions). The difference in his shooting % on long two’s vs shots around the rim is about 30-40%, so we’re really talking about 1 more made basket per game. Is that really worth making the focus of virtually every post-game blog? More minutes for Z and less for Twin would more than offset those 2 points. Go Hawks!

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If the coaching staff thinks Josh shouldn’t be hanging near the perimeter and throwing bricks, then why not design plays that call for him to come off screens then go to the hole strong, or set him for pick n rolls with either JJ or Teague?

Just askin’. Go Hawks!!

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Josh has to take some of those jumpers…

They are not rotating to him. We need him on the floor for defense, rebounding, and play making….Josh makes winning plays, so I will accept the GOOD with the BAD.

Josh does more to help this team win than any other player and they force him to take those jumpers….But if LD’s offense had more backside movement, I think that would reduce his opportunities.

1) I think he needs to develop a floater and aim for the backboard on his jumpers.

2) Josh jumpers are wide open…is the rate of a contested jumper higher than 39%, by our other players…if not, then let him keep taking them, because NO ONE IS ROTATING TO HIM!

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northcyde,

That’s what make JJ and Josh so frustrating. I give Marvin a hard time, but (imo), he just doesn’t have the talent we want him to (or that he is getting paid for).

But Josh and JJ have the talent. There biggest issue is mental. JJ never learned/refuses to learn how to draw contact and get to the line, especially when his hsot isn’t falling. Meanwhile, Josh refuses to play to his strengths, because he wants to show that he has no weaknesses, and can do it all.

If we was playing for an established vet coach like Doc or Pop, maybe he would learn more. But Woody and LD have not been able to convince him to stick to what works.

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AJ,

It sounds (to me), like Karl was saying Melo wasn’t as coachable as he would like, which implies Melo was going off script more often than Karl wanted.

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Marvin could average a consistent 14 if he received a consistent 32 minutes.

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Marvin could average a consistent 14 if he actually made jumpshots consistently and knew how to finish.
His FGA wouldn’t even need to go up

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JeJe asked about Jordan Crawford. Jordan is fine, and looks as if he’ll make the final cut on the Northcyde United fantasy squad ( seeing I can only make one more move ).

35 pts – 4 rebs – 9 asst – 44% FG – 70% FT for Jordan this week.

I don’t need him to be spectacular, just solid.

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Leon Powe would be cheaper and more suitable than Kenyon, even if he’s a PF.

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And a double dose of great news out of New Orleans last night.

They beat the Magic, which helps in the standings and also should act as a wake up call to the Hawks that even at 4-15, they better not take the Hornets too lightly Sunday night!

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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7511134/sources-miami-heat-los-angeles-clippers-teams-pursuing-kenyon-martin

No way we make this deal. Too bad.

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Will ORL be a total disaster before the all-star game gets there?

They remind me of last year’s Hawks.

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Marvin had his once a blue moon good game. expect the next few to be normal Marvin cratacular games.

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Sounds like Kaman price is too high……they think they still have CP3.

Spurs, Jazz & Rockets showing interest.

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Scoop @ 2:25 am with an excellent breakdown on Josh.

I would add;Josh does not move w/o the ball in LD’s
`’motion`’ offense.
Plus, Josh does not screen thus does not run the Pick & Roll.
Why, I wonder ?
Rarely take jumpers coming off screens, [catch & shoot]
rather spotting up for set shots.

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Two can be traded for Kamen
but he cannot be packaged with another plyr.

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It seems like the issue isn’t as much Zaza (since Horford’s injury) as it is there isn’t anyone competent behind him (with shot-blocking skills especially).

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2016/zaza-pachulia

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find it pretty sad that we all just watched one of the most entertaining basketball games in recent seasons, and 75% of the posts on this blog are related to Josh Smith being a weak link.

I agree with this statement. Hey look Ive always said it, if Josh would remove the jump shooting part of his game and concentrate on driving to the basketball he would be an All-star every year. Bottom line is every player in this league has a weakness shot selection is his. But he do so many other good things that we cant just throw the baby out with the bath water. If we could get a center Josh wouldnt have to defend the paint and try to rebound at the same time. its amazing this board spend more time hating Josh, Joe and Horford! Like Zaza, Marvin, and Collins are not the real weak links of this team!

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This works: [per trade machine]

* N.O. sends Kamen to Golden State

* ATL sends Marvin to N.O.

* Golden State sends Charles Jenkens to N.O.
* Golden State sends Andris Biedrins to ATL
____________________________________________

Golden State needs a big – possibly re-signs Kamen

N.O. moves Kamen gets 25 yr old Marv / & rookie Jenkins

Atl gets Legit Big / shot blkr + rebounder;;;
salary offset by trading Marv
*as noted yesterday:
just under $16,000,000 traded for $18,000,000 total contract

**this way we keep Kirk & Zaza !

Win / Win / Win ! ! !

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find it pretty sad that we all just watched one of the most entertaining basketball games in recent seasons, and 75% of the posts on this blog are related to Josh Smith being a weak link.

Yeah, against a crappy Detroit team that we should have blown out the water.

Dukester

I agree with this statement. Hey look Ive always said it, if Josh would remove the jump shooting part of his game and concentrate on driving to the basketball he would be an All-star every year. Bottom line is every player in this league has a weakness shot selection is his. But he do so many other good things that we cant just throw the baby out with the bath water. If we could get a center Josh wouldnt have to defend the paint and try to rebound at the same time. its amazing this board spend more time hating Josh, Joe and Horford! Like Zaza, Marvin, and Collins are not the real weak links of this team!

The problem is not Josh’s defensive rebounds. The problem is the possible offensive rebounds/tips he could be getting if he was in the paint during offense, instead of being outside on the perimeter.

Also, Zaza, Marvin, and Collins are nowhere near the skill level as Josh and Joe, so their ceiling isn’t as high. So, people criticize them because we know they could be doing extremely well if they played to their strengths. Yet, I feel that is a red herring(Just like the center issue), for the real issue is the coaching and the offensive schemes created, WHICH ARE NONE.

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This is mostly for * northcyde*
But everyone else as well !

Joe is quietly having his best yr.
Joe is not explosive – he is graceful.
Which is one of the main reasons he does not get to the line.
His best offense is to get into the lane
and shoot soft floaters and short jumpers ‘`not`’
go hard to the rim for strong finishes;
ergo, not many calls.

Joe is not ever going to be flashy.
At the all-star game; who wants to see:
floaters, soft jumpers, finesse, grace, etc.

On the other hand;
Joe has stepped up his game this season.
One way he has stepped up is by letting others
play around him rather than himself being the central figure.
Before, with Joe dominating the ball, others stood.
Now others move the ball while he moves amongst them
and all are involved. It’s beautiful to watch.

Yes, I -can- say nice things about Joe !

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G-Dad, I agree that Joe is starting to have a very good year. We haven’t seen numbers like this since before JC1.
He is the leader, and we go as far as he takes us.
Why he doesn’t shoulder this load when Al is playing???? No clue.
He has to be the assassin he is paid to be.

And G-Dad, what do you see in Beidrins that isn’t showing up in the boxscore? He has paltry numbers and I’m trying to remember him being a presence in the paint at any point in his career. He has fallen off big time since not getting 30mpg back in ‘08-09. And 2 more years at 9M? I wouldn’t want any part of that. He isn’t earning his money as it is today.

Truthfully, I see this team ‘almost’ as good as when we have Al. But against better teams, it might show up more that Al isn’t here.

I still think a big man move is critical to get a guy in here who helps Josh inside and can give us 25-30 mpg. No way Zaza, COllins and Ivan make up for the loss of Al, no matter what Sund says.

Right now, IMO, if Sund can’t get a deal done, he is once again not earning his salary. You can’t be passive losing a big piece of your lineup for the season. Yes, they expect Al to come right in and pick up where he left off, but you aren’t guaranteed to have a playoff appearance when Al gets back.

As frustrating as it is to see Sund actually do nothing, it has to be frustrating for the team as well if they have been asking for help for what 2 offseasons, and Sund has done what? Will Sund wait until the wheels start falling off before making a serious call?

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Fire someone!

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Jeff Teague was able to practice on Saturday but coach Larry Drew is still calling him day-to-day due to a sprained left ankle.”He was moving around on it pretty good,” Drew said. The Hawks are at New Orleans on Sunday and based on how things went on Saturday, we’re guessing he might try to play tomorrow. If Teague is out, Kirk Hinrich could get the start. Jan 28 – 3:17 PMSource: Atlanta Journal-Constitution

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I cosign with Grandad!

Joe Johnson game is a thing of beauty when its clicking!

Kinda unique, to be so graceful and his tricky dribble is one of the best I have ever seen from a big man…. C’mon Joe!

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An O.T. victory against a team with one of their best players missing and not a real good shooting team, but, the HAWKS got the victory. N.O. monday and again Josh should give the ball up to the guard, he should play inside where his strength is and last but not least stop trying to be an outside shooter. If that continues the team will go into a tailspin and will not recover. This cancer is growing and growing fast.

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