Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 107, Pistons 101 (OT)
11:49 pm January 27, 2012, by Michael Cunningham
Auburn Hills, Mich. –This was similar to the Milwaukee game: Awful start, great finish. “I wish it could be a little earlier,” Josh Smith said. “I would rather have the lead than try to claw back into it and do it the way we did it. But a win is a win. I’ll take it.”
The Hawks did it behind Joe Johnson’s 28 points after halftime. There are times when Johnson doesn’t have it and focuses on drawing doubles and swinging the ball. This time, he just kept doing his thing until he found his rhythm.
“The second half I just wanted to be aggressive,” he said. “It was do or die. We had to put up or shut up. Guys came out and made big plays and gave ourselves a chance in overtime. I just wanted to validate that and be aggressive and make plays not only for myself but my teammates.”
For the second time in three games Larry Drew didn’t take Joe out after halftime (Josh didn’t get a break, either). “You have got to understand where he’s coming from when you’ve got a guy who is getting into a rhythm, rolling, getting other guys involved, knocking down shots,” Joe said. “You do want to ride him, regardless of who it is. Tonight I was that guy. I told the guys to be ready.”
Joe’s steal and tying 3-pointer were just two of several big plays for the Hawks down the stretch. Marvin Williams, Kirk Hinrich, and Josh Smith all made important 3-pointers as Detroit stumbled.
Marvin’s 3 late in regulation came after a sweet sequence in which Joe attracted a double and swung the ball to Hinrich (who was frantically waving his hands) who then whipped it to Marvin in the corner. Even thought he had it rolling, Joe became a playmaker when the Hawks needed it.
“It was kind of a carbon copy of the Milwaukee game,” Drew said. “He struggled the first half but I elected to ride him in the second half to see if he could play his way out of it. He had some bounce in his step.”
It hardly mattered that Josh was missing Js since he also earned eight free throws (making six) and had 11 rebounds, eight assists (against one turnover) and three blocked shots. Like everyone else save for Tracy McGrady, he was much better after halftime than before.
It’s been a while since Jeff Teague was this passive. He didn’t seem interested in attacking the basket and, like at Milwaukee, sometimes dribbled wildly into traffic. Teague didn’t provide much defensive energy, either.
Drew didn’t have an update on Teague’s sprained left ankle and I didn’t see Teague in the locker room. “I thought he was going to be able to go back in,” Drew said.
Hinrich replaced Teague with 3:48 left in the third and didn’t come back out. “I was just gassed,” he said. “I just didn’t have any legs. Offensively, I think I’ve got a little ways to go obviously.”
Hinrich couldn’t find his shot but he had nine assists, including five over the final quarter and OT. Five of his assists resulted in scores within six feet of the basket and two others led to 3s.
Hinrich also took some pressure off Joe defensively. “He played with a lot of intensity, a lot of energy,” Drew said. “He got on the floor for some loose balls. He gave us a big lift.”
Not a strong game for Drew as far as feeling out who needs minutes when (riding Joe notwithstanding). T-Mac was one of the few guys to have going early but Drew sat him for Marvin (he’s still not playing them together). McGrady appeared to be laboring late but Drew waited a while before putting Marvin back in. And Drew was back to using Jason Collins in a major role (16 minutes).
It seems like Drew is getting quicker with pulling out Ivan Johnson when he misses jump shots.
Marvin came off the bench and made the big 3-pointer but Drew sent him in for defense. “I wanted to get more active defensively and they were scoring with posting [Greg] Monroe,” Drew said. “We were going to double team him and getting into rotations, and I wanted someone a little more mobile out there.”
Marvin played 35 minutes and delivered with his best game in a while: season-high 22 points on nine shots and eight rebounds.
Zaza Pachulia was jumper happy early (just two free-throw attempts) but started cutting to the basket late. Defensively he’s rarely out of position. He’s not athletic enough to get to all those shots he challenges but he’s by far Atlanta’s best healthy center.
More evidence of Atlanta’s lack of depth in the front court: Monroe, Jason Maxiell and even Austin Daye gave the Hawks problems in the paint. There were times the Hawks cross-matched Josh on Monroe and Twin on Maxiell. That’s just not a good situation.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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161 comments Add your comment
Ramon
January 28th, 2012
6:11 am
Eric, no, the coaches vote for the DPOY and the All Defensive team. (and that season 2010), Josh was on the 2nd team, the forwards on the first was Lebron and Gerald Wallace (because Wallace went crazy on boards- but is an SF). Either way, the coaches voted Josh as the best defensive PF that season.
Eric
January 28th, 2012
6:15 am
Sorry, Ramon, but I think you need to check the facts on the voting. The coaches don’t vote for DPOY, MVP, etc.
Ramon
January 28th, 2012
6:17 am
Eric, sorry, but you wanted to see the link, so here you go.
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/05/all.defense/index.html
“The voting panel consisted of the NBA’s 30 head coaches, who were asked to select NBA All-Defensive First and Second Teams by position. ”
I have links for everything I say on here.
Just Joe
January 28th, 2012
6:18 am
Josh’s play will improve as the PG play improves. Steve Nash would have made him an allstar already. Give Teague some time (and Kirk too for that matter).
IMO, Josh’s best year was Woody’s last year, when Josh shot 50% from the floor, took almost no 3’s, grabbed 2.8 offensive rebounds, and recorded 4.2 assists, 2.1 blocks, and 1.6 steals per game. That’s the year that Joe, Jamal & Bibby really had it going (each was shooting a high % and combined for 48 pts a game). The offense should not run through Josh as much early in the clock. He’s much more effective when he gets the last touch (field goal attempt in rhythm) or the next to the last touch (assist). However, this also means that we need to see more movement without the ball from Josh.
Buddy Grizzard
January 28th, 2012
6:23 am
kshizzle I was watching the highlight reel on nba.com and trying to figure out if Lawrence Frank was yelling at his player to foul before Joe took that shot. Joe said he was expecting a timeout to be called. The fact that no timeout was called worked in the Hawks favor as it denied Frank the opportunity to set up his defense and remind his players to foul and put the Hawks on the line for 2 rather than give up a three pointer. You know… exactly what Drew could have told his players instead of letting Bosh tie it at the end of regulation in Atlanta.
Eric
January 28th, 2012
6:26 am
Ramon,
Your link is for the All-Defensive teams, not defensive player of the year. That’s not what I was referring to. The Kia Performance awards, which include Defensive Player of the Year, are voted on by a panel of media members, not coaches.
Ramon
January 28th, 2012
6:29 am
Eric, either way, your point is mute. So that just says that the coaches AND the media voted Josh as the best defensive PF just two seasons ago! The media gave him the highest rating, and the coaches gave him the highest rating.
Eric
January 28th, 2012
6:36 am
Ramon,
My point stands. I never said I disagreed with what you said about how good Josh is defensively, I just wanted to make it clear that that the Kia Performance awards are voted on by a media panel, not coaches. You seem to think that I was trying to argue that Josh was not as good defensively as you were saying, but that was not the case at all. All I was doing was clarifying who actually does the voting for DPOY. So, clearly, I made my point now that you realize who actually votes for that award.
prison mike
January 28th, 2012
6:39 am
My assessment on J$.
This dude literally tried to overdose on jumpshots, it was hellacious. Other than that he did everything from battling Monroe hard in the first half to only get worn down from the 7-0 250 young center to finding open players and protecting the cup like only he can.
Marv did his thing. If only he could be a bit more consistent but you take what you can from him these days. Joe redeemed himself handsomely the 2nd half.
Buddy Grizzard
January 28th, 2012
6:43 am
It really blows that New Orleans is hiding Chris Kaman by not letting him play while they try to deal him. I would love to see a Kaman/Zaza match-up to settle the issue for me and Najeh once and for all.
kshizzle
January 28th, 2012
6:49 am
Dominique is funny, he’s really come into his own as a commentator, after starting off pretty bad if you ask me. As soon as the Hawks got it to overtime he was like, The Pistons blew their opportunity to win this game, the Hawks are going to come out of here with a victory. Then in a post game comment he talked of Marvin Williams 3 that cut it to 3, “They literally forgot about him. He set there for like 4 seconds and nobody was near Marvin Williams, and you see him here taking his time, rotating the seams and he knocks this down with nobody near him”. As a basketball lover and shooter the rotating the seams comment is pure gold. When I shoot in a game I rarely have time to rotate the seams the way he is talking about, but I’m pretty sure Marvin actually did so. His feel for the game is great and his status as a Hall of Famer and one of the top 50 players of all time (which I cannot remember if he is officially listed or not) is in no doubt in my mind.
Buddy Grizzard
January 28th, 2012
6:51 am
I said during the game in the game thread that Kenyon Martin was probably at home watching the game and thinking Miami is probably a better option for him. I’m glad the Hawks pulled it out in the end and I hope they keep winning. Martin will make his decision soon and he may decide that the Hawks have the biggest interior hole to fill among the top teams in each conference. He may decide he’d rather try to make an impact with the Hawks than try to ride LeBron and Wade’s coattails to an NBA championship.
KEEP WINNING HAWKS.
Donte
January 28th, 2012
7:05 am
The Hawks offense will continue to have frequent 3rd and 4th quarter collapses and will be destined for a 1st or 2nd round exit as long as Josh Smith jump shots and Josh Smith attempts to beat guys off the dribble take up such a large chunk of our overall offensive possessions.
Depending on J not so Smoove to knock down jumpers like Ray Allen or take guys off the Dribble like A.I. is not going to get us a series win Vs. Miami or Chicago and you all know it
Translation of Eric's Post
January 28th, 2012
7:10 am
Ramon was gagging on Josh Smith so hard and so ready to defend him, he didnt even realize Eric’s point had nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with how good or bad Josh Smith is.
Just Joe
January 28th, 2012
7:11 am
I think Kenyon winds up with the Knicks. He grabs the backup PF spot right behind Stoudemire. He’s got his former teammate Melo there, and the Knicks still have their mini-mid-level ($2.5M) to spend. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 2-yr deal offered by the Knicks.
Antawn
January 28th, 2012
7:13 am
Here’s my take on Josh Smith:
Personally, I think that he had his best season of his career (so far) in 2009-10. That year, he averaged 15.7 ppg on a career high 50.5% shooting from the field, along with 8.7 rebounds, 4.2 assists (career high) , 1.6 steals (career high), and 2.1 blocks. Even though he may be scoring slightly more this year at 16.2 ppg, I feel like the 09-10 season was easily the best offensive season of his career as well. Mainly, I feel that way because of his efficiency and shot distribution that season. Josh took 12.3 shots/game in 09-10 and the majority of those attempts (6.7) came at the rim. Josh’s focus that year was more on defense and attacking the rim. He finally toned down on trying to be an all-around scorer and just focused on what he was good at for the most part, and look what it got him: all-defensive 2nd team honors and second place in DPOY voting. I feel like Josh has slightly regressed since then. Let me explain why.
This season, Josh is again trying to be a scorer, and insisting on playing to his weaknesses. He is taking the 2nd most shot attempts on the team (approx. 2 more than he attempted during 2009-10), and more importantly, the majority of his attempts (6.3) are coming from 16-23 feet where he shoots 39%. I can respect that Josh is improving on his jumpshooting and has worked on it, but Josh has always been more effective scoring the ball inside that he has been outside, yet he continues to migrate his game more and more outside. Josh’s overall shooting percentage of 47.4% isn’t bad, and it’s just below the 48% league average for starting PFs, but the problem is that Josh could be much more efficient and effective if he’d just play to his strengths, and he fails to realize that. He’s taking more shots this year than and barely averaging .5 more points than he did in what I felt was his best season, due to his decreased shooting efficiency compared to that season.
At some point, and I’m starting to doubt that it will ever happen, Josh needs to realize that when he settles for long jump shots just because he’s open, he is playing to his weaknesses and giving opposing defenses exactly what they want. Josh is always going to be open from outside because teams respect his interior scoring and know that that is his greatest strength and want to take it away. They know that his outside shooting is a weakness, so they bait him into taking long shots, and he happily falls for it. I don’t know why Josh wants to play on the perimeter so badly, but that’s just not his game. When he camps out on the wing, and then receives the ball wide open out there, it’s not a good situation, because he either has to take a low percentage shot or has to attempt to create something by driving or passing, and if he doesn’t choose to pass, it’s a big gamble because he’s not the best ball handler on drives either, and teams know that. The good defensive teams are smart, they are going to try and take away your greatest strength, and for Josh, that strength is in the paint. It’s simple to understand. If you’re a great shooter, teams are going to crowd you and take away your air space to force you to either pass or put the ball on the floor. For Josh, they know he is a good interior scorer, so they are going to clog the paint against him and simply back off and encourage him to shoot. To this day, he fails to realize that. instead of working on his inside game or cutting to the hoop when his man leaves him, he just camps out on the wing waiting to get the ball for a jump shot. It’s maddening, and that is why I refuse to believe that he is improving just because he is averaging slightly more points while taking more shots and shooting below 50% as a big man.
I will give Josh credit for his rebounding this season, which is up (likely due to the fact that Horford is out), but outside of that, I can’t say that he is really improving in any other area, and that is due to his stubborn insistence on playing to his weaknesses. If he finally changes his mind set one day, then I believe he will improve beyond the best season of his career,but if not, I fear that he may just have more up and down seasons and peak where we see him right now.
Buddy Grizzard
January 28th, 2012
7:38 am
“I don’t know why Josh wants to play on the perimeter so badly.”
He wants to be LeBron, point blank. If he’d just be Josh Smith and play inside-out the way he’s capable, and stop costing the Hawks possessions walking back on defense while jawing with the refs, he’d be an All-Star and receive all the accolades he so desperately desires. The only thing holding Josh Smith back is Josh Smith.
kshizzle
January 28th, 2012
7:47 am
I just think Josh Smith is one of the most talented guys in the NBA. His issue, to me, is that his basketball skills coming into the NBA were raw. Not only because he came straight out of high school but also maybe because he started playing late (I don’t really know). He’s improved his outside shooting (still has some issue with free throws, mostly mental I think, he still needs to learn to calm down like McGrady is now). I think of him like The Human Highlight Film. By the end of his career, which was quite long, I was fine with Dominique taking jumpers and he shot well over 80% from the line. I may have been too young to see the beginning of his career but I bet he was another guy you would cringe for when they took an outside shot, at first. Josh Smith provides such intangible traits to the game of basketball, I find it hard to really criticize the guy. He’s still well under 30 years old. I absolutely love the guy. He put in the work to get fit this year and if he doesn’t make the All Star team it will absolutely shock me.
northcyde
January 28th, 2012
7:57 am
Ramon . . . I think the criticism of Josh last night, despite his otherwise statistical great game, was that he was 0 – 4 in the 4th quarter, with 3 of those shots being long jumpers. And because people are so fixated on Josh NOT taking jumpers, and instead going to the basket, that tends to overshadow his positive play.
Take away those 4th quarter jumpshots, Josh was OUTSTANDING last night.
The main issue with Josh, is the amount of jumpers he takes when he is ice cold. He’s shooting 39% from 16 – 23 feet ( which is the league average ), and he takes 6.3 jumpers a game from that range ( which is a full 2 more a game from last year ).
If you add the 0.7 shots per game from three point range, Josh takes 7 shots a game from 16 feet or more. To Josh’s credit, he did say that he’ll shoot less threes. But he’s simply transferred his 3 point attempts into more 2 point attempts. As a 39% shooter from that range, he needs to know when to stop shooting from that range when he’s cold, and try to score around the rim.
JJ is also a 39% shooter from 16 – 23 feet, and he goes through the same issue. If you’re not making the shot from that range, try to get closer to the basket and shoot the floater, or go all the way to the rim. When he starts to settle for that shot, despite being ice cold, it hurts the team in the same way when Smith does it.
But back to Smith. The 7 shots per game from 16+ feet represents 50% of his shots coming from that distance. People simply want the dude to play more around the rim, especially when his shot isn’t falling. The national perception of Josh is that he’s not a smart player . . . mainly due to his inability to stop jacking up jumpers when he’s not making him. The one or two “showtime” passes per game that ends up in a turnover, doesn’t help him either.
That perception at times overshadows him, even when he has a dominant game overall like he did last night. It’s not fair at times that perception exists. But most of the time, Josh does nothing to prove them wrong. In Josh’s mind, the 3 that he hit in overtime overshadows the fact that he had missed 8 of the 9 jumpers he had taken up to that point.
I keep hoping that the “Shawn Kemp” light goes off in his head, and he just starts attacking the rim as soon as he catches the ball and tries to dunk on people. If that light ever comes on in Josh’s head, he’ll be an undisputed All-Star. He’s playing good enough this year to make it. But he needs to keep playing well vs East competition in order to get those coaches votes.
If it is left up to Coach Thibs of the Bulls to select the final F to make the team, and the choice comes down to Josh or Boozer . . he’s choosing his guy Boozer, and Josh will be left out in the cold.
And that will be a shame.
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 28th, 2012
8:04 am
SNUBBED!
“His feel for the game is great and his status as a Hall of Famer and one of the top 50 players of all time (which I cannot remember if he is officially listed or not) is in no doubt in my mind.” -kshizzle-
___________
Nique was SNUBBED as a 50 Greatest player and did NOT receive his Nascar Designed leather bomber jacket but, Lenny Wilkens and Scottie Pippen were included?
Shaq was included after only being the league what 2 years at the time? Nique’ was devastated, however he was redeemed when awarded a HOF honor for his contributions to the NBA game.
prison mike
January 28th, 2012
8:04 am
Some of Josh’s jumpshot were from his teammates leaving him out to hang but most of them was him trying to take the easy way out.
To be fair, his jumper when they were down 12 stop the bleeding and got them back on track. Teague and Joe were negatives until some point in the 3rd quarter. Hinrich coming in for Teague also was a positive change.
northcyde
January 28th, 2012
8:15 am
LOL .. . I wish I would’ve saw Antwan’s post an hour ago. It would’ve saved me from doing a lot of typing, and I could’ve started with this:
The top 10 guys in shot attempts from 16 – 23 feet are these guys:
( Requirements: Played in at least 10 games . . and average at least 25 minutes a game )
1) Aldridge – 6.6
2) Josh Smith – 6.3
3) Boozer – 5.2
4) Bosh – 5.1
5) Nowitkzi – 5.1
6) Garnett – 5.1
7) Blatche – 5.0
8] Amare – 4.9
9) Scola – 4.8
10) Griffin – 4.6
Now . . here are those same players, and where they rank percentage wise amongst each other, and amongst all PFs ( 29 qualifying PFs )
1) Dirk – 56% ( 2nd )
2) Boozer – 46% ( t-5th )
3) Aldridge – 46% ( t-5th )
4) Garnett – 45% ( 10th )
5) Bosh – 45% ( 11th )
6) Scola – 40% ( 14th )
7) Smith – 39% ( 15th )
8] Blatche – 35% ( 18th )
9) Griffin – 33% ( 19th )
10) Amare – 29% ( 25th )
Smith’s jumpshot has improved. These days, when he’s hot, he makes them in bunches now. He’s still streaky though.
When you see the 6.3 attempts per game, that’s a little too high for a guy who is just an average shooter from that range. The top 5 guys in percentage from that range all shoot 45% or more. They’re the type of guys who will rarely have a 2 – 9 shooting night from that range, and will be more consistent shooters.
Guys like Smith and especially Blatche will run extremely hot and cold. Griffin is a 2nd year player who has basically been instructed to shoot that shot to see if he can improve on it. So despite his poor percentage from that range, he gets a pass ( even if he shouldn’t ). Amare without a good pick and roll PG in NY, has been flat out horrible from 16 – 23 feet. He’s a career 45% shooter from that range though. So when Baron Davis is healthy enough to help the Knicks, maybe Amare’s shot will come back. He’s been horrible though.
lil Neek
January 28th, 2012
8:20 am
Kirk did a good job. the kid has smarts and makes the game easier for everybody. just wait till he gets in shape.
David
January 28th, 2012
8:28 am
I could see Josh making the All-Star team this year, not necessarily because he’s the best choice as one of the backup forwards, but because of the current situation in the East. The starting forwards will most likely be Lebron and Carmelo. That leaves Bosh, Amare, KG, Boozer, Pierce, Deng, Granger, and Iguodala as the main remaining competition. Bosh should be a lock since he’s having a nice season and his team has one of the best records in the league. After that, it’s kind of wide open. KG and Pierce are playing for a losing team right now, and neither one is having a year with stats that will blow you away, so they may have a tough time making the team. Pierce is playing great lately, but again, his team’s record will likely prevent him from making the team. Granger and Iguodala are both playing on teams with some of the best records in the East, but neither one is having a great statistical season, so that rules them out a bit. Boozer and Deng are kind of wildcards. Both guys are putting up respectable numbers, not great, but respectable, and they play for the team with the league’s best record, so it’s possible that at least one of them may be selected as an all-star reserve, but I doubt both will be selected. Also, Amare’s stats are way down this year and his team has a losing record, so without the fans selecting him, it wouldn’t make much sense for him to make the team.
I’d say that puts Josh in a pretty good position to make the All-Star team this year. There will be 7 reserve slots available, and he could fall into 1 of 4 of those possible slots (one of the two backup forwards, or one of the final 2 selections).
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 28th, 2012
8:29 am
EXCELLENCE!
Nortycyde
Ramon
Eric
Antawn
Buddy G
Just Joe
Prison Mike
Kshizzle
Fantastic comments with stats and facts. Brilliant! That is just too much good stuff. Sipping on my coffee and now I can pass on the toast, save the calories because these guys had fed me well. Awesome conversations without emotions and a TON of respect for each others fine opinions.
Thanks!
northcyde
January 28th, 2012
8:42 am
Now let’s go the other way.
Same parameters ( 10+ games . . 25 minutes per game . . power forward )
These are the top 10 in shot attempts around the rim
1) Griffin – 7.4
2) Lee – 6.4
3) Cousins – 6.3
4) Love – 6.1
5) Aldridge – 5.8
6) Varejao – 5.6
7) Amare – 5.4
8] Humphries – 5.4
9) Bosh – 5.2
10) Smith – 5.1
And here is where they rank amongst each other and amongst the qualifying PFs
1) Bosh – 73.4% ( 5th )
2) Griffin – 70.3% ( 7th )
3) Smith – 70.1% ( 9th )
4) Amare – 66.7% ( 11th )
5) Lee – 65.7% ( 13th )
6) Aldridge – 62.2% ( 18th )
7) Humphries – 60.9% ( 22nd )
8] Varejao – 60% ( 23rd )
9) Love – 58.2% ( 25th )
10) Cousins – 49.6% ( 28th )
League average is 64% around the rim. Josh is at 70%. Yet, while Josh’s 6.3 attempts from 16 – 23 feet is a career high . . Josh’s 5.1 attempts around the rim is his 2nd lowest in 6 years, despite his 70% shooting from that area being a career high.
Do you follow that?
Josh has gone from being a F shooter from outside, to being a C- shooter from outside.
Josh has gone from being a C+ finisher on the inside, to being a B finisher on the inside.
Yet, Josh is shooting more from the outside, than on the inside.
If the light ever comes on, he’s an instant All-Star. But if he keeps trying to prove people wrong, and try to be Lamarcus Aldridge, he’ll always be on the fringe.
o_O
January 28th, 2012
8:44 am
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Cheerleading? Calm tf down, It’s a basketball internet blog for crying out loud. If you hold open a door for this broad going into the store, she’d probably let you dive in.
Quebo Gold™
January 28th, 2012
8:47 am
The Hawks will be lucky to be over .500 after Feb.
Trojan
January 28th, 2012
8:47 am
Would you trade Horford (injured) for Kaman and a # pick?
Big Crimson 75
January 28th, 2012
8:50 am
Big shots down the stretch. I like Hinrich for this team. He is much more of a playmaker than I ever gave him credit for being, not just a spot up shooter.
We need a Big, badly!!!!
K-Mart shoppers, anyone??
Quebo Gold™
January 28th, 2012
8:51 am
No one could be that slow, Josh Smith is full aware of what he’s doing. He just doesn’t care. That’s not being a team player.
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 28th, 2012
8:57 am
Nortycyde!
N I C E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man you are stuffing the stat sheet like a super star. You good. You got game. (she winks)
Give the guy a break
January 28th, 2012
8:57 am
Ignore the stats and just watch the damn game. Josh played entire second half and came up with a bunch of HUGE assists, rebounds and blocks down the stretch. He is playing with heart and intensity and is in the best shape of his career. Somehow people still find reason to be critical. If you want to talk about stats, how do you criticize a guy’s performance in a game where he almost had triple double with only 1 TO?? Is he perfect? No. But he’s an exciting player and we’re lucky to have the guy. Finally, Twin needs to stay on the bench. Z-Pach is so much more active. When Z needs a blow, use Ivan or Vlad Rad.
Hawkfan
January 28th, 2012
9:00 am
Great comments and backing them up with stats
Smoove played a great game last night. With Al out he has to be one of the players on this team that initiates offense when the play called gets defended. JJ can’t take every shot or initiate every drive. I think you will also find that a lot of his jumpers come from being passed the ball late in shot clock (although a couple of times a game he will make you scream NOOO!!). Smoove may not be perfect but I am glad I have had the opportunity to watch him play and I think he plays to win and plays very hard.
14 and 6. Wow. Right there with the elite teams despite losing a key player and having a bad ownership situation that prevents us from getting the “great” players (like Melo LOL). Hawks didn’t play well tonite but still won. Isn’t that the kind of team we want? Proud of these guys and love the defense and the growth of LD as a coach.
northcyde
January 28th, 2012
9:04 am
Trojan
HELL NO
People are talking like Al Horford is a scrub. This offense was much better with Horford in the lineup. It’s just that we MIGHT be a better interior defensive team without Horford, because Zaza’s big body isn’t easy to score around.
This team isn’t better without Horford though. Every game we’ve won so far, we would’ve won with Horford in the lineup ( possibly a little easier ). And we may beat the Spurs with Horford in the lineup, from the simple fact that he could rotate out on those outside shooters and challenge them.
People simply haven’t watched Chris Kaman this year. That dude is a mediocre big man at best. You don’t give up a key piece to get him. Right now, he’s not better than Zaza. And he’s always an injury risk.
Kaman is like a drug in the 1980s.
Nancy Reagan would tell you to “Just Say No”.
growyourown
January 28th, 2012
9:11 am
Right on “givetheguyabreak’. Josh is awesome! Dude’s a double-double almost every night. Almost a triple-double last night. We’ve kept winning as a team w/o Horford. I doubt we would be saying the same thing if Smoove had gotten hurt.
growyourown
January 28th, 2012
9:13 am
We would have lost in SA even with Horford.
northcyde
January 28th, 2012
9:23 am
Not so sure @ Grow.
Remember, the debut of Ivan Johnson came on a night in which Josh was playing terrible, and the team got a spot with Ivan and Horford at the 4 and 5 spot.
So let’s say Josh went down. You’d now have Horford at the 4 and Zaza at the 5. We’d be a better rebounding team with that frontline. We’d be weaker defensively. We’d probably be better offensively.
The difference this year is that Ivan is a guy we can bring off the bench to provide solid defense on perimeter oriented 4s ( although he can’t guard big people down low, much like Horford ). And if we opt to go with Vlad at the 4, that gives us a “stretch 4″ to play in short stints to open up the offense.
I know people have short memories around here, but Josh Smith was playing terrible to start the season. He struggled big time offensively until he went off in the Charlotte game. Then he had a great 6 or 7 game run. Offensively, he’s tailed off a bit in these last 5 games, but he’s still good in other areas, especially rebounding.
Like in the case of Horford, we could’ve survived thus far without Smith as well. And if T-Mac was healthy and JJ went down, I’d say the same if JJ were to go down as well. But we are getting into the real tough part of our schedule. So we’ll see how well we hold up without Horford in these games coming up.
Since I’m in “stat mode”, let me look at something else that I used to look at last year.
Wendy
January 28th, 2012
9:26 am
I felt like Josh was trying to do too much at times last night. There was one point where he hit a big shot – excellent – but then the next time down the floor he brought the ball up rather than passing to JT. And no, it wasn’t a fast break opportunity. He has so much ability, but sometimes he tries to get too tricky. IMO, that’s why he so often follows up a great play with a TO or crazy shot immediately after.
Grandmaster JeJe
January 28th, 2012
9:33 am
Dwight told teammates to stay in locker room / go home if they didn’t want to win. Same thing he said after game 4 in series vs us last year
Hawkfan
January 28th, 2012
9:38 am
Good point GTGAB. Fact is Josh is helping us to win the games. Maybe stats are for losers (although I like the stat that encourages Josh to make more backdoor cuts on JJ’s drives to up the 5.1 attempts at rim figure) . He’s the one guy that brings consistent effort and if he has a good shooting night can have monster games. He’s just not a natural shooter but you can tell he works hard at it and gets better.
Trojan
January 28th, 2012
9:43 am
Northcycle: Thanks. Kaman would be a good piece to our team but we have no pieces to match up that make sense.
I agree.
ILL-Logical
January 28th, 2012
9:43 am
Great comments this morning, this is the kind of discussion that keeps the passion for the admittedly flawed Hawks going strong.
Right now, the hand the Hawks have been dealt looks ok for the regular season but trouble looms after that. A smart playoff team’s coach will zone the Hawks, pound the ball inside and make someone other than Joe beat them. And as things stand today, that is a winning strategy.
To counter, the Hawks have to move the ball better in order to get better shots; get more guys involved in the offense-and get them shots that they are best at making. The big question mark remains interior defense. Given the organization’s financial constraints and Coach Drew’s relative inexperience, the best we can hope for is that All Pro Al returns in time to be a factor and that Benson gets in shape in the D-League and gets called up in time to get some much needed experience.
Benson’s time will come out of Twin’s dwindling allotment and he will take Pargo’s roster spot but there appears to be no other viable optins at this point in time.
Hawks Fan Down Under
January 28th, 2012
9:43 am
With Josh Smith they have 2 options….
Sack LD and bring in a coach who will actually discipline Josh and end up making him a better player
or
Extend LD and trade Josh.
I know which I’d prefer.
Buddy Grizzard
January 28th, 2012
9:47 am
“Josh played entire second half and came up with a bunch of HUGE assists, rebounds and blocks down the stretch. He is playing with heart and intensity and is in the best shape of his career.” – Give the Guy a Break
Agree… BUT… if you look at the numbers northcyde is bringing, what he is saying is that if Josh would just take two more shots per game at the rim, and therefore two fewer shots from 16-and-out, he’d be getting compared to Blake Griffin.
honest_abe
January 28th, 2012
9:49 am
scoop is on fire! dead on assessment.
cannot play with them, cannot win with them, cannot coach them. can’t do it. i want winners. i want people that want to win.
not morons who come down and shoot a long jumper with 20 secs left on the shot clock during a crucial run in the 4th quarter.
josh is a freaking joke. and people who defend him are even funnier.
northcyde
January 28th, 2012
9:53 am
One of the things I’ve been complaining about for the last 3 years, is the lack of quality players on this team throughout the lineup. And that fact is directly reflected in their efficiency stats and how they rank at their respective positions.
If you just do a generic look, you could say this about where a player ranks at his position . .
Top 3: Superstar caliber
4 – 10: All-Star caliber or Good starter, flashes of Superstar play
11 – 20: Good to Solid starter, flashes of All-Star play
21 – 30: Starter caliber player
31 – 45: Good bench player, capable of starter quality minutes
45 – 60: Bench rotation player, capable of a good game here and there
61 – 70: A benchwarmer, might see spot minutes in the rotation
Below 70: A scrub, shouldn’t play unless there is a blowout
So let’s see how our current Hawks rank in their respective categories.
*****************
PG: Teague ( 20 ) – Hinrich ( 54 ) – Pargo ( 63 ) – Sloan ( 77 )
G: Johnson ( 7 ) – Green ( 57 ) – Stackhouse ( 66 )
SF: Marvin ( 18 ) – McGrady ( 32 )
PF: Smith ( 9 ) – Vlad ( 46 ) – Ivan ( 62 )
C: Zaza ( 27 ) – Collins ( 84 ) . . . . Horford ( 11 )
In year’s past, we wouldn’t have more than 7 players on the team that would rank in the top 60 at their respective position. This year we have 9, with Ivan having a very good shot to being the 10th guy. If Horford can rejoin us for the playoffs, that will make 11.
Acquiring Kenyon Martin doesn’t make me go wild, but that would add a guy who is perennially a top 30 PF in the league. And while it wouldn’t help us against big frontline teams, a 2nd unit of Ivan and Trina’s ex-boyfriend on the frontline, would be an interesting twist to throw at people.
wordsmithtom
January 28th, 2012
9:54 am
That sequence near the end of regulation when Kirk demanded the ball from JJ and immediately swung it to Marvin for a 3 from the corner shows one of the veteran moves we’ve missed since he was injured. I like Teague, don’t get me wrong. He defends, can break down defences, and usually handles the ball well. But, at times, he seems to not know where to put the ball in order to get other players their best shots. Not Kirk: he saw MW stepping back for his favorite shot and wanted to get the ball to him. Not that JJ wasn’t hot and might have done as so as well, but MW had the best shot. That’s team ball. That’s what we need more of.
Josh, to his credit, played hard to the end, even when his shot wasn’t falling. Good win, coming from behind on the road.
Buddy Grizzard
January 28th, 2012
9:55 am
Following up on Hawkfan’s comments…
Blog people…
Would you trade…
Josh Smith for Carmelo Anthony straight up?
And let’s not even talk about max contract… length of contract…
Let’s say you have the opportunity to make this trade, and the contract situation is going to be favorable if you make it…
Talent for talent…
Would you trade Josh for Melo?
Big Lou
January 28th, 2012
10:01 am
Vlad is a second-rate version of Jamal Crawford — bad defense, and extremely streaky shooting.
Whoever is defending Josh Smith’s jumpers is insane. The guy ruins the offensive runs we go on with his brick-layered shot selection, and makes stupid mistakes with the ball almost every game. Also, don’t you think we would rebound better if the idiot wasn’t trying to shoot jump shots? I really think the guy is borderline Attention Deficit Dis – What? The guy will always be a wasted talent because of his stubbornness and low basketball IQ.
Center or not — this team will go nowhere unless we fix our offense. We would be losing these games even with Al. THERE IS NO OFFENSIVE GAMEPLAN!