Atlanta Hawks: Hawks release rookie guard Donald Sloan
Rookie Donald Sloan ended up being the odd man out with Kirk Hinrich’s return from shoulder surgery.
The Hawks waived Sloan today, well in advance of the Feb. 10 deadline for all contracts to be come guaranteed. The Hawks now have 14 players on the roster and, by my accounting, releasing Sloan gets them comfortably below the luxury-tax line so they won’t need to waive anyone else for that reason. Signing a veteran free agent this season without releasing a player by Feb. 10 would push Atlanta’s payroll back above the tax line.
The Hawks opted to keep Jerry Stackhouse and Jannero Pargo, who both also are on non-guaranteed contracts. Pargo provides veteran insurance at point guard behind Jeff Teague and Hinrich, while Stackhouse has played a total of 38 minutes in seven games.
Clearly Sloan wasn’t going to earn a regular role for the Hawks this season. His salary for next season would have increased by about $280,000; under salary-cap rules, signing a veteran with three or more years experience would cost the Hawks roughly $90,000 more than a second-year player like Sloan.
Michael Cunningham, Hawks beat
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158 comments Add your comment
i_am_soulstar
January 26th, 2012
3:21 pm
Knew it
Ra'mon
January 26th, 2012
3:25 pm
FTPB, O’Brien, the Hawks struggle when they play great interior defensive teams, similar to majority of the league who struggle against it. And those are the games, where Marvin’s number one goal should be to get 10 rebounds minimum.
Regular Joe
January 26th, 2012
3:31 pm
“Pargo provides veteran insurance at point guard behind Jeff Teague and Hinrich, while Stackhouse has played a total of 38 minutes in seven games.”
I don’t know why this was funny to me, but it was.
Melvin
January 26th, 2012
3:32 pm
Not surprising…. I would have preferred to keep Benson over Sloan any how…
Astro Joe
January 26th, 2012
3:33 pm
No brainer. MC, if they truly think they will sign a vet big man (e.g., Kenyon Martin), will they need to cut another player for luxury tax purposes, or will the prorated salary by that late date be low enough to keep them below the tax line?
Hawks4Eva
January 26th, 2012
3:37 pm
The right move.
Hawks4Eva
January 26th, 2012
3:39 pm
On second thought….just how important is Jerry Stackhouse? Not much from a practical stand point I would imagine. Turn the page already.
Rusty McBooger
January 26th, 2012
3:40 pm
WHO Cares….Sloan be Gone !!
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 26th, 2012
3:44 pm
Najeh already told us that Sloan was waived FTPB. Who’s the next low man on the totem pole? Better yet, when are we gonna’ get a real big man in here?
Marcus
January 26th, 2012
3:44 pm
Stack might be heart-broken for Valentines Day, esp. if we continue to come up small vs. the GOOD teams who have interior presence. J-Smoove can’t guard everybody.
O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
3:52 pm
I dont think anyone is surprised by this move.
AJ,
I dont think Rick is convinced that they “will” sign a vet big man. I will not be surprised if the team we have now is the team we have after the deadline.
And keep in mind too, that contracts become guaranteed weeks before the trade deadline, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out (depending on MC’s answer to your question of course).
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 26th, 2012
3:53 pm
Marcus is right, we can’t really ride Josh at all right now. Josh has really stepped up to the challenge of rbounding and defending but, he can’t do it all by himself. The owners need to wake up and spend wisely, let their lame duck GM do his job without “jerry jonesing” his every move. If Gearon,Jr wanna’ be like Blank, then give the GM some blank checks.
If Joel Anthony is our Horford, then we need a Udonis Haslem. kenyon Martin fits that bill. Just do something man.
Astro Joe
January 26th, 2012
3:55 pm
OB, that’s why I asked the question. Because they may need to juggle things based on timing. They could create the extra “tax cushion” and sign any one of the bigs we’ve been discussing for ther past few weeks if Kenyon doesn’t work out.
The Truth
January 26th, 2012
3:56 pm
Sloan had potential just needed seasoning and more PT. A victim of circumstance, he was in the right place but just at the wrong time. I wish am well.
SteveW
January 26th, 2012
3:58 pm
Najeh – About Marvin, you forgot falling down for no apparent reason as well – he’s got to be the best in the League at that.
Especially for a once in 10 year talent like Marvin.
Ra'mon
January 26th, 2012
3:58 pm
DMB, cosign 3:53. If Joel Anthony is our Horford, then we need a Udonis Haslem. kenyon Martin fits that bill. Just do something man.
By the way, Camby is healthy now. Won’t hurt to see if Kurt Thomas is available.
Sautee
January 26th, 2012
3:58 pm
Ramon,
FTPB:” By the way, Horford routinely shoots under 40% against the Spurs for his career. So please don’t say we lost because he wasn’t playing.”
How about those NINE offensive rebounds he got against them last year? Would THAT have helped in a game where we were out rebounded by 9?
Not saying Al would have made the difference, but I cannot believe that people don’t think we miss his rebounding. Not only that, but do you think Al fumbles those passes from Teague in the lane, a la Zaza? Possibly, but given my druthers, I’d have him uninjured, so we could see.
It is what it is, but we DO need another big. And we miss Horford’s rebounding, if nothing else.
SteveW
January 26th, 2012
4:00 pm
Kenyon Martin – Udonis Haslem analogy is a good one. If Martin can be anything close to a healthy Haslem, get him on this team
HoosierHawk
January 26th, 2012
4:03 pm
@MC with this talk about Kenyon Martin, would he be playing the 5 spot? I don’t ever recall him playing the 5 in Denver.
SteveW
January 26th, 2012
4:06 pm
Sloan and Ivan were teammates in Erie with the Bayhawks. I do wish Sloan well. I could see him being a 2nd or 3rd PG in this League like Royal Ivey or something.
Ra’mon – I’d take Kurt Thomas right now also. We’re not that far away from maybe truly contending this year. Maybe a piece away. I like ZaZa for what he is, but what he is not is a consistent starting C in the NBA – no hands, gets no calls, short arms so few blocks.
What he is is a great energy Big off the bench that can enforce and intimidate with the best of them currently. He’s no Rick Mahorn or Bill Lambeer however.
The Truth
January 26th, 2012
4:09 pm
What I see, Kenyon Martin and Ivan are redundant. That’s not really an upgrade for our needs. We really need more size. Exactly Ivan shoots better FT% anyway.
SteveW
January 26th, 2012
4:11 pm
Hoosier – I’m not MC, but I did follow the Nuggets a little bit, and I do think he played some 5 for them on occasion. They had so many injuries, it was difficult to keep up with who was playing where, but if I’m not mistaken, he’s played some 5 not just in Denver, but at other times in his career also.
But it’s not his natural position – he’s a 4 of course naturally.
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 26th, 2012
4:11 pm
Blog CON-Troll!
MC, It’s almost February and you indicated that the AJC is bringing their blogs into the 21st century. One user ID per email address is not leading edge technology, it’s almost extinct these days. By the time the AJC get up to speed, we’ll all be wearing space boots.
I know you have no super powers over the bosses, however your blog troll has been a menace to us all with his own 15 ID’s and hi-jacking all others. the troll’s comments are pornographic in nature, debasive, harassing, relentless and aggressive. At a minimum, could someone on the AJC staff moderate these comments and block/filter the blatant spelling of sexually explicit words?
Myself and others have shied away from blogging as of late in lieu of more productive past times. The entertainment value here is swiftly waning.
Please help us.
Melvin
January 26th, 2012
4:17 pm
Talks of signing Kenyon Martin is just a smoke screen by the ASG. We’ve been down this road with them before. They would mention signing a household name player and they know that player has no intentions of siging with the Hawks. After the fail attempt, they will throw their hands up, shrug their shoulders and said we tried. Remember talks of signing Big Z. KMart will sign with either the Heat or Knicks unless the ASG make him a much better offer than those teams (which history tells us that’s highly unlikely). Thats my two cents…
Ra'mon
January 26th, 2012
4:18 pm
—
Sautee, first Horford wouldn’t have been in the lane to receive the pass from Teague.
Secondly, Horford NEVER got 9 offensive rebounds against the Spurs last season. He got 1 offensive rebounds in one game, and four in another. And that game he got 4, he wasn’t even the starting center that night, because LD went with the big lineup.
The fact remains, the Hawks haven’t beat SAS in Texas with or without Al, so I don’t see where he would’ve made a huge difference.
And guess what, one of those games, Josh was injured and didn’t play. And Horford went 6 for 15, matched up against Duncan. And had a +/- of – 5, and that was with Kirk in the lineup, so no Bibby to blame. Last night Josh was 6 for 17, with a +/- of 0 . The only Hawk last night, without a negative +/-, hmmmm.
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310405001
This is the other game they played last season, without Joe Johnson. And notice Al’s +/- of – 19, compared to Josh’s 0, although they played equal amount of minutes. And even in that game, you could say Al had 5 more rebounds than Josh. But Josh had 4 more assists, two blocks, and committed 0 fouls compared to Al’s 5.
Ra'mon
January 26th, 2012
4:19 pm
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=301210024 , Sautee, this was the second game last season.
Astro Joe
January 26th, 2012
4:20 pm
The Truth, Ivan is a 27 YO rookie who is still learning the pro game. That certainly is not the case with kenyon. In a perfect world, we’d get experience and size in a healthy body capable of holding up in this compressed schedule AND would be ready to play tomorrow in Detroit. From that ideal scenario, you start walking backwards and you get what you can. Zaza is our primary back-up at center. Soits not like we netered the season one player deep at that position.
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
4:21 pm
I think Benson is in the D-league at the Hawks request, because he could make more money in Europe. I think he is the last resort Big Man, if Horford can’t return or no good trade offer are availible.
Ra'mon
January 26th, 2012
4:24 pm
Sautee, I agree we do miss his rebounding. But at the same time, I believe, there’s a better atmosphere on the court without Al. So if that’s the trade off, I don’t know. If Al was as physical as Zaza is (Zaza’s the same height as Al also), then even that would be better. I don’t remember the last game Al made another big complain to the ref that he was fouling him too much. But Zaza does that every other game. When Horford was at UF, he BULLIED Oden, because he guarded him, not Noah. When the Hawks drafted Horford, I thought they were getting a bully, not an usher, lol. That’s the only thing, I don’t see Horford FIGHT.
Buddy Grizzard
January 26th, 2012
4:25 pm
Alright listen up all you trade machine junkies… here is the serious question you all need to be pondering. Do we want Brendan Haywood’s long term contract (three more years with a team option for a fourth at $8-10m per season) or do we want Shawn Marion (two more years at $8-9m per) for Kirk Hinrich at the trade deadline?
Dallas will be looking to dump salary in the hopes of landing Dwight Howard AND Deron Williams. These players will be available. My answer is, I’m not interested in either player. They are both marginal players and, with Dirk unable to contribute and Tyson Chandler gone, they have not been able to elevate their team in the early going. I think if you plug in Haywood as the starting C in Atlanta for the next three years we head straight to the lottery. I think Kirk does more for this team than either player, although getting him to stay with a reduced salary will be tough.
I do think, however, that it’s time to part ways with Marvin. He started the season strong and it looked like he might be on his way to a career year but he has pulled his usual disappearing act. Teams have been interested in him in the past and I think the combination of T-Mac, Vlad and Ivan gives you enough at the small forward position that you can dump Marv’s salary and just move on.
I also think Stackhouse needs to be cut before his contract becomes guaranteed. We’ve got plenty of wing depth and are in desperate need of a big man. The Hawks need to keep a minimum salary slot open to sign either Kenyon Martin (much more likely to end up in Miami) or… drum roll please… Hilton Armstrong. We need big bodies and he will be available once the French league concludes.
tyger
January 26th, 2012
4:25 pm
D Sloan keep your head up…
U came, competed and won an NBA roster spot…
GO Play, your time will come…
Ivan the Terrible plays dumb…
As much as I like his scrappiness…
He’s getting away from his strengths…
He doesnt pick/roll, turnovers, bad shots…
Wondered why he hadn’t made a team before…
Kenyon Martin is a no brainer…
Kenyon is tough for real…
Only 6′9, plays like 7′0, all boards belong to him…
You want see him jacking crooked jumpers from the key…
Melvin
January 26th, 2012
4:27 pm
Astro,
Ivan is also a 27yr old rookie that doesn’t watch tape. Is it shocking that he seem to always be in foul trouble and out of place on defensive rotation.
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
4:27 pm
All I see in that ESPN box score is, Teague DNP…I got mad and closed the link.
Ra'mon
January 26th, 2012
4:27 pm
KMart would have no reason to sign with Miami, and New York, may not be better than an 8th seed, if that this season. And even with Ronny Turiaf, he wouldn’t even be the first big off of the bench. I could see Martin signing with Atlanta, LAL, or Dallas. And maybe even the Clippers or Thunder.
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
4:29 pm
available^^^
Melvin
January 26th, 2012
4:32 pm
Ramon,
It was rumored that his relationship with Melo and someone else on the Knicks (can’t remember who) would give them a good chance of signing him.
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
4:34 pm
Hilton Armstrong….. I reapeat, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 26th, 2012
4:35 pm
Dollar Tree!
Briis baby! Let me grab your ankles before you fall too deep in that 2 for $1 bargain bin. Hilton Armstrong? Your’re really scraping the bottom now and, I don’t want you to scratch those pretty knuckles. LOL
We need something decent Briggs if, we’re going to be any type of contender.
9 tough, scrappy boards per night and someone who can finish at the rim would be a helpful upgrade. Is that too much to ask for, Sund? D-League should have something.
The Truth
January 26th, 2012
4:38 pm
“From that ideal scenario, you start walking backwards and you get what you can” AJ
This has been the typical pattern of Hawks management. “Get what you can” (cheaply) without addressing the problem. That’s how we ended up with players like Etan, Joe Smith and others. Frankly, at the end of the day, we need size and athleticism on our frontline. The closest thing we currently have to that is Collins and he gets little PT.
Melvin
January 26th, 2012
4:40 pm
Go get Rasheed. His size and skill set compliments our other bigs perfectly. He’s a guy that can defend the tall and athletic centers like Howard, Bynum and Jordan. He also could provide some scoring and good passing on offense. Get it done Sund….
rollow lawson
January 26th, 2012
4:42 pm
Sign Rasheed Wallace!!
Astro Joe
January 26th, 2012
4:46 pm
Buzzy, you kind of went two different ways. Dallas would gladly take Hnrich’s expiring contract for virtually anyone on their roster. But making a trade for an average (at best) center with 3 more years of escalating salary seems like a desperate move to me. Imagine making that move only to have another key player go down for extended time with an injury and then being stuck with Brendan. In fact, I think folk who have watched Brendan would say that he is a larger version of Marvin, one good game followed by 4 games where you’re not sure that he suited up. He is the starting center on the championship team and what has he done this season with that golden opportunity (while playing alongside Dirk)? Nada.
In Marvin’s case, some of his alledged disappearing act is because of how LD uses him. A few games ago, Marvin shot 4-5 (or 5-6) and barely played in the 2nd half. Regardless of what Marvin is doing, he will be pulled out around the 4:00 minute mark of the 1st and 3rd quarter. Last night, he was off to a nice stat in the 3rd quarter while Josh stayed in a funk (I’m talking about a very specific period of time, not evaluating careers here). LD could have tried Marvin at PF where he likely would have done a better job checking Bonner on the perimeter. Instead, he put in Vlad and TMac for his starting forwards. TMac is this great distributor but has Marvin been on the floor with him for more than a few token minutes?
I’ll trade anyone on this team but I’d be hard pressed to even trade Pargo for Brendan’s contract (ignoring CBA salary-matching trade rules of course).
SteveW
January 26th, 2012
4:48 pm
Unless Hilton has vastly improved, I say no to that – we could do better with Dampier or ‘Sheed or somebody.
Kenyon has Finals experience, and is a little longer and more explosive than Ivan. We’re talking about an All Star, All NBA Defense kind of guy with Finals experience as opposed to a 27 year old rookie who’s looking lost at times. And I like Ivan, but they definitely are not redundant.
I know the Blazers, Mavs, and New York are also interested in KMart as well as I would guess Denver. Not sure about that however.
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
4:48 pm
I think cash and 2 2nd round picks could get Jason Thompson or JJ Hickson…The Bobcats DJ White…Hornets Jason Smith
SteveW
January 26th, 2012
4:53 pm
Funny reading the NYK blogs – some are convinced they are about to win a title. They better get to work, or they may miss the playoffs.
And Kenyon has had 2 microfracture surgeries – but your not wanting him to be the starter, just play the stretch run and the playoffs, and be used kinda like TMac.
Sign KMart, keep he and TMac healthy, get Horford back for a little extra push, and you’ve got a formidable team come postseason.
I’d stick Ivan and KMart on LeBron and tell them to do what they have to do, if you know what I mean – Just joking!!!
Astro Joe
January 26th, 2012
4:53 pm
Onemore piece of speculation. If the Magic are certain to move D12 in the next 6-7 weeks, wouldn’t you prefer to have all of your trade assets in case you could be a third or fourth team involved with a major shuffling of players? Some team may need Hinrich’s deal to facilitate a move and we could net something in return better than going solo. I think with D12, Deron and potentially one or more of the Celtic Big 3 in play, it may be wise to stand pat and see if you can steal something later than settle for chuck steak that expired two days earlier. And most of y’all would be all about the “why couldn’t we…” noise if we were sitting here with “Old Man River” while something big was going down around us.
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
4:55 pm
Trade Kirk for Milsap
O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
4:56 pm
Ra’mon,
After seeing how Kurt Thomas gave Al all he could handle in the Milwaukee playoff series, I don’t know why Sund didn’t sign him when he was available. The Blazers signed him just last month. Last Month!
Reggie Evans was available too, for only $1.3 mil. And what did Rick do? Nothing. Sat on his hands with Benson and Rolle. …SMH.
O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
4:58 pm
AJ,
If the Magic are certain to move D12 in the next 6-7 weeks, wouldn’t you prefer to have all of your trade assets in case you could be a third or fourth team involved with a major shuffling of players?.
This is Rick Sund and the ASG we are talking about. What have they ever done that suggests creativity?
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
4:58 pm
Cole Aldrich…give-up next years #1
SteveW
January 26th, 2012
4:58 pm
Rufus – Maybe – It would be good if they could. I know we’re over the cap, and only have that 1.043 mill dollar trade exception from Jordan Crawford according to the current trade machine, so I’m not sure if any of those guys cost under that amount.
Just Joe
January 26th, 2012
5:00 pm
3-team trade:
Hawks get JJ Hickson & Jordan Hill.
Kings get Terrence Williams & Hawks’ 2nd rd pick.
Rockets get ZaZa Pachulia & keep the 2nd rd pick they owe us.
Astro Joe
January 26th, 2012
5:02 pm
Isn’t Kurt Thomas playing for Portland? And don’t they have two of the most brittle centers in the NBA in Oden and Camby? So if you’re Kurt, would you rather go to Portland as their 3rd center or play behind Horford and Zaza? Y’all do know that players also have a say so in where they play, right?
SteveW
January 26th, 2012
5:04 pm
Rufus – If they would give us Millsap for Kirk – Millsap is a PF, but I would do that all day long. Millsap is really finding himself this season.
Cole Aldrich? IDK – that Mullens for a 2nd rounder sure turned out well for the Bobcats – maybe Aldrich is as good or better? I think the Thunder are keeping him for when Nazr hangs it up maybe.
SteveW
January 26th, 2012
5:07 pm
Just Joe – Again, I think we’re dreaming if we get Hickson and Hill for ZaZa and 2 2nd round picks. Also, I still want the enforcer ZaZa, we just need either a Hill or a Hickson to go with him really. I don’t think Collins could run fast enough to catch someone to be the enforcer – they’d be gone before he got there.
But then again, I’m not against having Hickson and Hill, you’d have some serious young, athletic length on this team. I like that for the team
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
5:07 pm
I am not trading Zaza…Zaza is BIG, PHYSICAL and he HURTS people. He hurt Duncan at least twice in last nights game and Jermaine O’neal is still having nightmares….
Shooter
January 26th, 2012
5:07 pm
Pop coached circles around LD. 4 point game at halftime. Pop makes halftime adjustments and LD runs and hides.
and Joe Johnson does another one of his disappearing acts. Call him Houdini….
Sautee
January 26th, 2012
5:10 pm
Ramon,
My bad, the game with 9 offensive boards was 3/21/10.
I haven’t switched my brain to 2012 yet.
And I agree that Horford has lost some of his “fight”. Too bad. He did seem a little more willing this year to mix it up, but nothing like his first two years here.
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 26th, 2012
5:10 pm
2 – 14 for .143 from 3 point land. Josh, listen Mr. Woodson, that is not your range. I do like Josh at 16′ @ 70 degrees in the games flow. Hawks should make 5 passes before all shots, swinging from side to side unless, they’re driving the lane.
KevinM
January 26th, 2012
5:11 pm
No more of these 7 footers who sit at the end of the bench and come in when Collins and Zaza can’t handle someone or get in foul trouble. Its time to find a reliable big man who plays the role of defender and keeps guys out of the paint. Al doesn’t want to do it, Collins can only do it 13mpg and Zaza is hit or miss.
Note to Sund: If you don’t do anything, you get what you deserve. We had an ‘all-star’ in the slot go down and for you to say we’ll evaluate, then do nothing? How did you get past security in your interview with the ASG? Did you promise big things or did you say I’ll be your whippin’ boy! Its going to take a big move to get further than last year; I just don’t get what the holdup is? Hinrich isn’t going to get Al’s rebounds for him.
Whatever, go get us a REAL big man, and quit wasting what opportunity that Josh, Joe and Jeff are giving you to compete night in, night out.
Buddy G., I’m at the point where I just want to see a move…I’m not discounting anyone at this juncture.
I want to hear a rumor that Sund is in the mix for a big man of worth.
It would make this team’s potential climb to the level when Moses and Reggie were brought in; and with it came hope.
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
5:13 pm
I really want a trade, but I want the Hawks to be patient…I want the best Big for the best price. If we can add a player without making a trade(Because I really want to keep Kirk), that is the best solution.
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 26th, 2012
5:14 pm
listen TO Mr. Woodson …
steven a
January 26th, 2012
5:15 pm
Like the idea of trading for Cole Aldrich. Would be a legit starter at the “5″ spot. He is definitely the missing piece in the Hawks advancing to the eastern conference Finals. He is our “Luc Longley.”
The Truth
January 26th, 2012
5:19 pm
“I want the best Big for the best price. If we can add a player without making a trade(Because I really want to keep Kirk), that is the best solution.”
Agreed but perhaps unrealistic
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2012
5:23 pm
“The fact remains, the Hawks haven’t beat SAS in Texas with or without Al, so I don’t see where he would’ve made a huge difference.”
Al may not have turned yesterday’s loss into a win, but he most definitely would have made the game competitive. All those minutes where Vlad played PF and/or Ivan played C and the Hawks got killed by Splitter would have been minutes where Al or Zaza (who wasn’t special but was at least serviceable) would have been manning the middle. What turned the game from a close contest to a blowout was the Hawks’ complete inability to match up with the Spurs’ backup big men, and with the PGs when Teague was out of the game. Al would have helped with the first part of that.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2012
5:29 pm
“Cole Aldrich? IDK – that Mullens for a 2nd rounder sure turned out well for the Bobcats – maybe Aldrich is as good or better? I think the Thunder are keeping him for when Nazr hangs it up maybe.”
OKC gave up 2 first rounders to move up and get him last year. Aldrich is a lottery pick. He ain’t going to be available for Kirk. More likely that the Hawks get Nazr.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2012
5:32 pm
“Hawks get JJ Hickson & Jordan Hill.
Kings get Terrence Williams & Hawks’ 2nd rd pick.
Rockets get ZaZa Pachulia & keep the 2nd rd pick they owe us”
Works on the trade machine, but I don’t know if the Kings go for that.
From the Hawks’ point of view I am a little torn on that. I am not a huge Zaza fan, but he is at least a true center. Neither Hickson nor Hill really belongs at center. I wouldn’t mind adding either one as depth at center, as a player who can play center against opposing second units, but if they had to hold down 48 minutes at center every game I don’t know whether that would be an improvement.
KevinM
January 26th, 2012
5:33 pm
“Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
5:07 pm
I am not trading Zaza…Zaza is BIG, PHYSICAL and he HURTS people. He hurt Duncan at least twice in last nights game and Jermaine O’neal is still having nightmares….
Rufus, I gotta disagree…..I have everyone on the block except for Teague at this stage. Getting a defender is vital going forward, even if Zaza and Marvin are the cost, haha. What will that get you? If you can get a Daniel Orton on a smaller deal, do get him and see if he’s worth signing going forward. Move Stack out of the way and let Orton take that salary slot. I’m pretty sure Stack is getting 1M-1.3M to be a cheerleader. That one doesn’t make cap sense.
steven a
January 26th, 2012
5:33 pm
Kurt Hinrich only for a guy like Pau Gasol. They should not trade Kurt for anyone else, PERIOD!!!!
The Truth
January 26th, 2012
5:33 pm
“I want the best Big for the best price. If we can add a player without making a trade(Because I really want to keep Kirk), that is the best solution.”
On the other hand, if Rasheed Wallace can be transformed (from layoff) cutting Stack could make that work.
Ohh The Irony
January 26th, 2012
5:47 pm
drmaryb, a person who constantly and rudely attacks other posters, occasionally using inappropriate & vulgar language herself, is now the blog patrol and spokesperson for “keeping the blog clean”
Hypocrites are wack.
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
5:47 pm
“OKC gave up 2 first rounders to move up and get him last year. Aldrich is a lottery pick. He ain’t going to be available for Kirk. More likely that the Hawks get Nazr.”-Najeh Davenpoop
I wasn’t offering Kirk, just a 1st and filler. OKC has too much depth in the front court and he has only played 41min this year(I think stack has played about the same) and he won’t play the next 2years…Ibaka, Collins, and Perkins all play the C/PF.
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
5:50 pm
Correction-Collison^^^
steven a
January 26th, 2012
6:10 pm
Spurs exsposed the Hawks as a weak defensive team in terms of physicality and inability to protect the rim, with 59 year old Tim Duncan AND Tiago Splitter abusing them,. They need help if they want to advance past the 1st round.
steven a
January 26th, 2012
6:12 pm
Only way Kurt should be traded should have to include “Duck” Williams, or there is no deal.
Joe
January 26th, 2012
6:32 pm
Drop Stackhouse and add a center. We are truly in need of one!!!
sturt
January 26th, 2012
6:35 pm
Agreed that given Ivan’s arrival, the K-Mart thing has slightly less appeal than it did when the season began.
Instead, I’ve had my eye on Przybilla… almost the only legit C sitting on the sidelines and available right now. This is a team that, when it rebounds, is almost unstoppable.
Yes, Pryz comes with some risk b/c of his injury history; and too, it’s not a given that he comes to ATL for the minimum when there are others like CHI and POR also on-record as interested in his services. But the fact that it’s a shorter season leaves a stronger possibility that he can, at least, hold up through the playoffs when we might get Al back. And our advantage over CHI and POR is that we can offer a regular season starting slot from day one.
Hoops
January 26th, 2012
7:09 pm
The Wizards are reportly interested in moving A. Blatche. The Hawks should offer Marvin for Blatche and see if they are interested. The trade works on the trade machine.
JaeEvolution
January 26th, 2012
7:13 pm
Bogut fractured left ankle, bye bye for the season glass man.
sturt
January 26th, 2012
7:21 pm
Blatche? Mr. Spontaneous Combustion? Nah.
O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
7:25 pm
AJ,
I agree that Portland offers more PT, since Oden and Camby get hurt. But part of the Hawks problem is Rick takes too long to act. By the time he makes up his mind, the player has better options.
O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
7:27 pm
Meanwhile, Rick is at it again. From MC’s article; “Hawks to go with front-court status quo”
“I always start the season, everywhere I’ve been, with three point guards and centers, just in case you lose one of them,” Sund said Thursday. “We are looking and watching [for other options], but who knows?”
“I think we have a really good club, and I think our players accept responsibility that the goal is still to make the playoffs,” Sund said. “You don’t replace a player like Al, but we also have a lot of [other] good players on the team.”.
I don’t want to read too much into…but I am never impressed by anything Rick has to say…
DS
January 26th, 2012
7:28 pm
So where’s the guy asking for the trade with the bucks? Still think Bogut is more reliable than Horford? Or was it Thabeet? Who are you gonna claim is better than Al next? Kwame Brown? Petro?
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2012
7:30 pm
“I think our players accept responsibility that the goal is still to make the playoffs,”
Enough said.
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 26th, 2012
7:39 pm
Nary a Ring!
Well, we can remove terms like contender and championship from our vocabulary. Perhaps, MC can block those two words from this blog filter now.
And, people wonder why no super star wants to come here to the old “clipppers” model franchise. Even they, have surpassed the Hawks. I have better things to do than to line the ASKG pockets with my money, so they can buy jet fuel.
GT Alum
January 26th, 2012
7:41 pm
I wish Sund would offer platitudes like we’re always looking to improve our team, but we don’t currently se any options that would allow us to do that,rather than stuff like “I think we have a really good club, and I think our players accept responsibility that the goal is still to make the playoffs.” It really reinforces the message that they’re happy with the 2nd round status quo. We realize not every team can win a championship every year, but that doesn’t mean you can’t try.
UGA
January 26th, 2012
7:42 pm
Hawks are probably waiting till the period when they can sign a big to a 10-day contract………..that is my guess OR waiting to see who is waived.
I would go ahead and start Hinrich and bring Marvin off the bench. That first group needs another shooter.
Also, Popovich benches Parker when he can’t stop Teague……………whereas LD does NOT bench Smoove for NOT guarding freaking Matt BONNER!!
SD
January 26th, 2012
7:44 pm
kWAME AND AL ARE ABOUT THE SAME.
Hawks Fan Down Under
January 26th, 2012
8:13 pm
I actually think marvin is a good player. Good role player. He shoots the ball well, rebounds well and has quick hands on D. However he does some of the most awkward embarrassing garbage I’ve seen. That double dribble last night was something an 8 year old might do! But for me the worst aspect of Marvin is his contract. He has value and should be kept as I can’t see anyone taking him in a balanced trade with such a dumb contract.
And the issue with Josh is how his play and mindset affects the rest of the team. No question he can be amazing and other Hawks have said on countless occasions that Josh can be inspiring when on fire…the problem is when Josh is in one of his imploding spirals this will also ‘inspire’ the team in the wrong way. Door swings both ways and it always will. This is why I’m all for trading Josh. He’s proven over 8 years he can’t stop the implosions. It doesnt matter how high the highs are because invariably he’ll come crashing back to Earth and drag the team with him. As always a lot of this could be alleviated with a strong coach who could actually read the game and then bench Josh before the meltdown and doesnt let him “play through it” (which is quite possible the dumbest thing you’d want to do!)
A new coach is the only thing saving Josh as a lifetime Hawk.
Man in Black
January 26th, 2012
8:32 pm
PLEASE TRADE MARVIN WILLIAMS!
He has been the trouble with this team since they began starting him. He’s a 7th or 8th man at best. No other team would start him, his performance never justifies it. He rarely shoots 50% and most games he misses free throws, layups, wide open shots and for 3-4 possessions in a row he makes offensive & defensive blunders that allow the other team to make runs.
Offer Williams. Horford and K-man for Howard – its an offer Orlando can’t refuse.
EmirS.
January 26th, 2012
8:39 pm
Just a little something in-case you guys have not seen yet:
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/01/26/ankle-fracture-sidelines-bogut/?ls=iref:nbahpt2
Roy
January 26th, 2012
9:18 pm
Saw this comi. Often I find the hawks roster moves disturbing. Teams like Oklahoma build through solid drafting. It seems to me though the hawks are just content to be where they are.the spurs bigs dominated the hawks. Zaza and collins are backups. Ivan while he has surprised is better suited for PF which the hawks have in josh, al and marvin.
KevinM
January 26th, 2012
9:25 pm
Bogut is a waste of cap space….once hurt, now regularly hurt.
OB, so true about Sund….the problem with him is he isn’t a legitimate threat to take a player away from another team. I can’t see Pryzbilla even being considered. Sund is all about the minimum after he screwed any cap flex.
Hinrich cannot possibly return next year unless we move a captain. Is he enough to get a defender in here? I don’t think so, and you can’t include Marvin in any move. His contract is as bad as Rashard Lewis IMO. No one is going to pay him for that contract.
Sund really has nothing of value to say. MC, not speaking for the blog, but if you didn’t interview him anymore this year, we wouldn’t notice. The guy simply messed up with Joe, Zaza and Marvin and now can’t recover from it. It’s like one of those credit cards where you pay the minimum until you pay it down…..5 years later, you are finally free and clear and whatever you bought isn’t really worth much.
O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
9:28 pm
Najeh,
I saw that too. He should have added “our goal is to make the playoffs, and once we get in, anything can happen” or “getting to the playoffs means we are one of the teams still playing for a championship”. Give us something Rick.
But as with the ASG, they always leave us wanting more.
KevinM
January 26th, 2012
9:32 pm
Watching ORL and BOS shows you 2 teams not really going anywhere…reminds me of the MIA/ATL playoff series in ‘08 where the Hawks blow out the Heat, then go to MIA and lay an egg.
Never consistent enough to be a serious contender.
KevinM
January 26th, 2012
9:39 pm
Vernon Macklin – Det big man vs. OKC 1/23…..9 min, 4pts/4reb
Give me those numbers any day from a big man. His salary fits with our roster. If it costs a 2nd rounder, more than worth it.
Detroit’s going nowhere.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2012
9:45 pm
That Bogut injury means 2 of my top 6 fantasy draft picks are going to miss the majority of the season. If Curry gets injured again (which he probably will) you can make that 3. What a disaster of a draft I had.
Rusty
January 26th, 2012
9:54 pm
ebonyc(u)mdumps.com/gang-bang/drmaryb.avi
nice clip
ntrigue
January 26th, 2012
10:43 pm
At least the hawks didn’t have a meltdown like the magic are having right now!
Melvin
January 26th, 2012
10:52 pm
Magic lose to the Celtics without Rondo/Allen/O’Neal and after leading by 27pts….
Rufus1
January 26th, 2012
10:55 pm
The Magic were at home and lost a 27pts lead.
doc
January 26th, 2012
11:26 pm
magic scoring 25 points in the second half. wow.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 26th, 2012
11:46 pm
That Magic meltdown was a lot worse than the Hawks’ meltdowns at Chicago or Philly, seeing as how it was at home.
Doesn’t mean anything with respect to the Hawks’ status as contenders or pretenders though.
W.R. Terrell
January 26th, 2012
11:48 pm
I saw an earlier comment about not riding Josh because of his defense and scoring. Ohhhhhhhhh K…..Last eve after whatever his name is hitting 3 pointers like he was drinking good wine. He had no quicknes, no speed and was not going to put the ball on the floor.
I was like, is anyone gonna guard him…ahh…where was Josh?..Joe and Josh gotta keep the ball moving, that holding the ball chit is gonna be the death of em. The Hawks do have a prob that should be fixed by now and it’s still call selfishness. San Antome was and is a team the HAWKS can beat. Lotta dumbaz play and that’s a reality, just too much dumbazz play.
Tomorrow it’s Detroit and one still will ride pins and needles hoping they play basketball. They have been together too long not to have some serious cohesion. They don’t need any slack, they need to play. They are 13 and 6 when they should be 16 and 3. That’s a fact and excuses no longer works. You saw the game and the sore that spread. Right there within 2 points and then a bad shot and 3 pointer by San Antone and then another dumb play and it was over…That quick, damn shame.
Buddy Grizzard
January 26th, 2012
11:49 pm
Gotta love from the AP game story, “Atlanta’s few losses this season included a triple-overtime heartbreaker to LeBron James and Miami.” Nice to know that the newspaper business is doing so badly that they need to syndicate content from the AP, which hires writers who don’t actually pay attention to the NBA to write about it.
Grandmaster JeJe
January 27th, 2012
12:00 am
“I think we have a really good club, and I think our players accept responsibility that the goal is still to make the playoffs,” Sund said. “You don’t replace a player like Al, but we also have a lot of [other] good players on the team.”
^^^^
that has been Sund’s only goal since coming here- making the playoffs.
SMGDMFH
Slimjr
January 27th, 2012
12:10 am
Ra’mon
January 26th, 2012
4:18 pm
—
“Sautee, first Horford wouldn’t have been in the lane to receive the pass from Teague.
Secondly, Horford NEVER got 9 offensive rebounds against the Spurs last season. He got 1 offensive rebounds in one game, and four in another. And that game he got 4, he wasn’t even the starting center that night, because LD went with the big lineup.
The fact remains, the Hawks haven’t beat SAS in Texas with or without Al, so I don’t see where he would’ve made a huge difference.”
Hey Ra’mon you realize he’s All NBA’s #1 fan on these blogs! Nice manip. of the nimbers? LMAO!!
Slimjr
January 27th, 2012
12:17 am
would have made no difference! ^^^^^^
Marvin looks lost out there especially on defense…Sad, so Sad…
vava74
January 27th, 2012
3:36 am
I know he is small and is close to dead these days but he would be cheap and could help if motivated:
Maxiell anyone?
Buddy Grizzard
January 27th, 2012
4:31 am
“All those minutes where Vlad played PF and/or Ivan played C and the Hawks got killed by Splitter would have been minutes where Al or Zaza (who wasn’t special but was at least serviceable) would have been manning the middle.” – Najeh
Only bad thing for the Hawks about Zaza moving into a starting role… the Hawks no longer have the best backup center in the NBA. We have Ivan.
“The guy simply messed up with Joe, Zaza and Marvin and now can’t recover from it.” – KevinM
http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2012/01/bad-wheel-on-bandwagon-look-at-larry.html
Wait… what? He messed up with Zaza? You need to check that link and understand that Zaza Pachulia is one of the best values in the NBA.
tyger
January 27th, 2012
7:02 am
Hawks 1Q Report:
Hawks still the Hawks…good but not great…
Horford injury hampers progression, evaluation…
Win streak a mirage, no contenders there…
Wins are wins and LDs done a great job perservering…
Feb schedule will trim some fat…
Spurs gave an early look…
Hawks showing wear after traditional fast start…
Second unit has lost its “punch” post-Tmac injury…
Neither, Marvin nor Vladi has “stepped up” in Al/TMac absence…
Teague’s growing a pair…steals, aggression compensate for shortcomings…
Ivan is regressing…this aint the D-league!!!
Hinrich looked good in debut, a boost to second unit…
Hawks cant win w/o JJ/Smoove playing 35+min…
Not a good sign, with deeper bench and compressed schedule..
LD got to figure way to get Marvin/Vladi going…start Vladi???
Marvin has had good production off bench in past…more freedom
Has Pargo learned plays yet???
Hawks didnt take advantage of slow start by other contenders…
Have slipped to 5/6 spot already…
Miami, NYK, Boston too talented to write-off so early…
Indy, Philly, Orlando leading pack with young legs, balance…
Even Bucks, Cavs could make it interesting…
How bout Otis Smith? Thought he was dead man walking…
Trojan
January 27th, 2012
7:47 am
Cheap, Cheap, Cheap, Cheap. The Hawks are a cheap organization. Sund is as creative as he looks.
O'Brien
January 27th, 2012
7:51 am
Najeh,
Earlier in the week, Orlando lost in Boston, and scored only 58 points. Last night, they were leading Boston by as many as 27, and ended up losing. Ouch.
At the end of the game, Boston fans were cheering loudly….despite the fact that the game was IN Orlando. So ATL is not the only arena that has all these out of towners cheering for the Celtics, Lakers etc.
As for SVG, he has to be on the hot seat (along with the GM). That team has a very high payroll, a disgruntled star, and the team isn’t going anywhere.
vava74
January 27th, 2012
8:13 am
tyger,
If we win the next 3 games – which should be withing our reach, although I am pretty sure that we will go 2-1 – we will be 16-6.
It’s obvious that February will be tough but if we finish the month’s schedule on or around .500 (achievable), then we will be sitting pretty for the final stretch.
Overall we have fairly young legs and a reasonable roster and in shortened compressed season it’s impossible to know who will reach the finish line in good enough shape to win it.
JM
January 27th, 2012
8:13 am
@Buddy
Yeah, I don’t think people understand that we actually have a good deal with Zaza. Likely the best backup C in the game for a price under $5 milli. Most teams would kill to have Zaza at that price.
O'Brien
January 27th, 2012
8:20 am
From nola.com;
New Orleans Hornets backup forward-center Chris Kaman’s playing time could decrease because Coach Monty Williams said he wants to give his younger frontcourt players more of a chance to develop.
“I don’t want to get too in-depth, but I think for us going forward I think Goose (Gustavo Ayon), Jason (Smith) and Carl (Landry) need a chance to develop their games a little more,’’ Williams said. “I think it’s important for Emeka to get more minutes to get his rhythm and get in shape. We’ve been trying to play five bigs and that’s hard to do.’’
After playing 26 minutes last week against Houston, Kaman played just seven minutes last Saturday against Dallas and 14 against San Antonio this past Monday. Kaman dressed quickly and could not be reached for comment after Wednesday night’s game in Oklahoma City. The Hornets did not practice on Thursday..
I’m starting to think Najeh’s trade proposal might be very possible after all. Hornets want to give their other bigs more PT (and they already have Okafor). At PG, they have Jarrett Jack and Grevis Vasquez, and their SGs behind Eric Gordon are Xavier Henry and Marco Belinelli.
Hinrich could back up Jarrett Jack, and play spot minutes at backup SG too.
Hinrich and ZaZa for Kaman is a deal I would make. My only concern is will Kaman stay healthy (ZaZa usually is).
And it would give us more financial flexibility for next year (losing Zaza). Hornets will still have plenty of room to offer Eric Gordon a max entension this offseason.
vava74
January 27th, 2012
8:23 am
OB,
That Bass for Baby trade was yet another stinker.
Otis Smith is BY FAR the worst GM in the league. It’s a no contest IMO.
Grandad
January 27th, 2012
8:41 am
O’B
If N.O. is looking to play their younger Bigs
why would they trade for Zaza ?
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 27th, 2012
8:48 am
Ninja turtle!
“Starting with the Hawks home win against Chicago on March 2nd, Hinrich took over the starting point guard role and Teague’s minutes looked like this: 7, 14, 11, 9, 3. On March 12th, with Al Horford out due to a sprained ankle, Drew started a 3-guard lineup. Teague played 44 minutes and matched a career-high with 24 points to go along with 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 5 steals as the Hawks snapped a 4-game losing streak. His minutes remained inconsistent for the remainder of the season, and we all know what happened when he was thrust into a starting role in the playoffs against Chicago after Hinrich’s season-ending injury in Game 6 vs. Orlando.
” -Buddy Grizzard- Hooponion article
_________________
When Teague first emerged under Drew, I was shocked and thrilled at how “Ninja” quick he was. I gave him that monicker then, but it never stuck as I was a rare and explosive player in him. I began to wonder why he couldn’t see the floor as many others opined on here incessantly.
That jeff was kung-Fu-Fighting!
My grandmother always told me, “If you see a turtle on the fence, you know he didn’t get there all by himself.” For some reason, his coaches put him there.
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 27th, 2012
8:50 am
* as I SAW a rare and …
drmaryb.[*_*].
January 27th, 2012
8:56 am
OB, why would NO take zaza if, they already have too many centers? See if they would take marvin and give us filler or picks instead? We need zaza for the playoffs and to back up kaman, (injury prone). Besides, zaza’s salary is cap friendly. Send Twin or something else?
Unfortunately, based on MC’s article, nothing will happen here.
KevinM
January 27th, 2012
8:58 am
Guys, Zaza isn’t making this team better; he is keeping us in the status quo. He is a backup who sometimes shows he can play, then other nights, he looks like he has never touched the ball on the offensive end. You call it value for a backup C; I call it status quo. Zaza, 26 min…5/5…and we complain about Marvin when he posts those numbers? Marvin was 8/8 in 27 min, but based on comments here, you’d think he Melo’d his way to 1 pt for the entire game.
Zaza brings as much to a team as a minimum vet; why can’t he just take over the role while Al is out?
He’s competing with Collins, who is good for 1/4 of a game.
What we have is talent that keeps us at this level; if Ivan can come in and take your minutes?
I understand they all help in small spurts, but it’s not going to be enough to go beyond the ceiling we are at now. I’m willing to let this thing play out until the end with what we have, but we all know where this is ending.
I guess you have to guarantee LT deals to be competitive even if those players sometimes come to play their best.
Kelvin
January 27th, 2012
8:59 am
Doesn’t matter, the Hawks will make the playoffs and get eliminated in the first or second round as usual. This team has reached its ceiling, but in this town Hawks fans are content with mediocrity. I’m sure come playoff time we’ll all convince ourselves that the Hawks stand a chance to beat a team like Miami in a seven game series and then act disappointed when it doesn’t happen. If you want to know how the Hawks will do come playoff time just look at how they fair against upper echelon teams in the league.
» What’s going on in the basketball world Basketball 101
January 27th, 2012
9:00 am
[...] Rookie Donald Sloan ended up being the odd man out with Kirk Hinrich’s return from shoulder surger…. The Hawks waived Sloan today, well in advance of the Feb. 10 deadline for all contracts to be come guaranteed. The Hawks now have 14 players on the roster and, by my accounting, releasing Sloan gets them comfortably below the luxury-tax line so they won’t need to waive anyone else for that reason. Signing a veteran free agent this season without releasing a player by Feb. 10 would push Atlanta’s payroll back above the tax line. Atlanta Journal-Constitution Atlanta Hawks, Donald Sloan [...]
STRETCH
January 27th, 2012
9:10 am
Ditto Grandad. Why trade a center for a center when they are thin at that position. The only way i would do that is sending Hinrich and Collins cause he is pretty much a foul machine anyway.
Potential Eastern Conference playoffs opponents with the size to give Hawks problems include Orlando, Indiana, Philadelphia, and Chicago. Sund counters that teams such as Miami also don’t have an abundance of size in the front court, and Philadelphia and Chicago often deploy small lineups.
“Some teams you’ve got to be able to match up big, and some you’ve got to be able to match up small,” Sund said.
What worries me about Sund is he sounds like Frank Wren which translates to “we dont have money.”
And did he just bring up the Miami Heat not having size? The he is right about but look at this:
LBJ+Wade+Bosh > JJ+JS+AH
And they dont even now if Al is going to come back healthy enough or not.
Jase
January 27th, 2012
9:19 am
Enter your comments here
Buddy Grizzard
January 27th, 2012
9:20 am
“Hinrich and ZaZa for Kaman is a deal I would make. My only concern is will Kaman stay healthy (ZaZa usually is).” – O’Brien
Sure, trade the only healthy, mobile big man we have. Kaman gets hurt we’re in the lottery.
Grandad
January 27th, 2012
9:26 am
I have looked at this big man thang ’til my head hurts.
I wish Sund would put in half the thought as we on the blog.
_____________________________________________
Here’s what I think are the `five’ best options: (no particular order)
(1) Cap’n Kirk to Golden state for Biedrins / A B;; rebnds & blks shots
(2) Marv to Toronto for Amir Johnson / Johnson (has grown) 6-11.5
(3) Marv to PHX for Channing Frye / PHX wishes to dump Frye’s contract
*Frye not much on def. end – but an upgrade on off. over all our [5's]
(4) Cap’n Kirk & Marv to Utah for Al Jefferson / Utah needs a [1]
Marv is still only 25 yrs old / he fits the Jazz rebuilding format /
Gordon Hayward has been a bust; can’t guard anyone
*(Jefferson is actually 2 yrs older than Marv)
(5) Josh + Cap’n Kirk for Pau Gasol / assuming LAL thinks
getting Josh will help them acquire D.Howard /
plus LAL needs a pg / I’ve seen kirk’s name referenced,
while reading conjecture about the Lakers
____________________________________________
* I do not think Sund has or will consider any of these.
* All would help us in one way or another.
* Consideration for the other team was taken in each case.
* All worked on the -new- trade machine.
Astro Joe
January 27th, 2012
9:33 am
vava, supposedly, Big baby was a player that D12 wanted the GM to sign as a FA. So that trade may have been to appease their franchise center.
Still no word about SVG being fired or 2-3 of the Magic’s top players being traded after the loss last night. I wonder if it is possible that a bad loss shouldn’t reasult in mass hysteria? Probably not.
Jarrett Jack is havingone of those classic “someone has to score on a really bad team” seasons. I hope it doesn’t hurt his career in the long-run.
Kamen is a good big man with an expiring contract. That is a doubly-good situation. Wouldn’t the NBA owned Hornets expect an extra special offer in return? Trading away a bigger expiring deal for a smaller expiring deal doesn’t quite feel all that special to me. And if they think they have all of this emerging young big talent that needs time and development, what would Zaza provide them?
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2012
9:55 am
“the Hawks no longer have the best backup center in the NBA.”
This needs to stop. The Hawks just lost by 20+ to a team with a backup center who is better than Zaza.
Zaza is a good player at times. He also costs the Hawks about 6 points per game because of his clumsiness. In 8 minutes in the first quarter alone, he had two missed layups and a turnover under the basket, costing Teague 3 assists.
Let’s turn those into per-36 stats: that is 9 missed layups and 4.5 turnovers per 36 minutes. That more than offsets the benefits of his rebounding rate, especially considering that his off the ball defense leaves much to be desired (he let his man cut to the hoop for a layup during that same 1st quarter stretch).
Small sample size? Of course, but unfortunately I don’t have accurate data regarding his chronic layup-missing and fumbling. Maybe I should start keeping track. All I know is this is not a one-time thing.
Zaza is an above average backup center who, at times, is a beast on the boards and who, at times, does a good job in man to man defense. Nothing more.
O'Brien
January 27th, 2012
9:56 am
Why would N.O trade for a center when the one they have will get less PT anyway?
1) The key to the deal is Hinrich. Hornets starting PG is Jarrett Jack, and they don’t have a legit backup. The argument can be made that Kirk is as good a player as Jarrett Jack, and if he plays well, maybe they offer him a contract for next season.
2) Kaman is making $14 mil this year. ZaZa is making $4.75 mil. If you’re the Hornets, would you rather have $14 mil sitting on your bench (and possibly inactive) or would you rather have $4.75 mil sitting on the bench (with little PT).
Plus ZaZa only has 1 year left after this, so they could trade him next offseason depending on the development of their younger bigs. If the younger bigs don’t develop enough, ZaZa is a good backup for Okafor.
Why would the Hawks trade a center for a center?
Based solely on their play on the court answer this question. Who do you think is a better Center? Kaman or ZaZa? Take their salaries out of it.
I haven’t seen Kaman play in a while, but imo, Kaman is a better player over Zaza. And one benefit for the Hawks is they get a $14 mil expiring contract.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2012
9:57 am
“At the end of the game, Boston fans were cheering loudly….despite the fact that the game was IN Orlando. So ATL is not the only arena that has all these out of towners cheering for the Celtics, Lakers etc.”
Haha exactly. EVERY warm-weather city has this problem. Boston fans even drowned out Heat fans last year when the Celtics came to town. I guess Rob Parker must have been jacking off during that game and wasn’t paying attention.
O'Brien
January 27th, 2012
10:00 am
AJ,
The Magic just scored 58 points in a game against the Celtics earlier in the week. And then they blow a 27 point lead at home against the Celtics.
This is the same team that has one of the highest payrolls in the league, and lost in the first round last year. And their star player is disgruntled.
I agree there is no need for mass hysteria or immediate firings in Orlando, but…if I was a Magic fan, I would be disappointed if significant changes (on and off the court) are not made this offseason (and I am assuming at best, Orlando loses in the second round this year).
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2012
10:02 am
“Hinrich and ZaZa for Kaman is a deal I would make. My only concern is will Kaman stay healthy (ZaZa usually is).”
My only concern is that the Hawks’ main problem up front is depth, and while I will continue to maintain that Kaman is better than Zaza in every respect, he is still only one guy. The Hawks would still be left with the problem of Ivan or Collins playing backup center minutes.
Maybe the Hawks can find a way to get Kaman and another serviceable center (Semih Erden for a 2nd rounder?)
Wish the Hawks had the foresight to go after Gustavo Ayon, though. He’s the “younger front court player” who has taken Kaman’s minutes. I haven’t seen him play but his stat lines are really impressive.
Astro Joe
January 27th, 2012
10:06 am
OB, there is also something to be said for a team that can compete with 25-27 teams around the league but has problems with 2-5. Kind of the whole 80/20 thing… don’t mess up the 80 while chasing the 20.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2012
10:07 am
“* I do not think Sund has or will consider any of these.
* All would help us in one way or another.
* Consideration for the other team was taken in each case.
* All worked on the -new- trade machine.”
The big problem with those first three trades (the last two are unrealistic for the other team in my opinion) is that they add a ton of long term salary obligation for players who don’t make the team better by enough to justify it. Make any of those trades and you can bet on the Hawks dumping either Josh or Al next year to stay under the cap.
STRETCH
January 27th, 2012
10:08 am
Jorge Sierra: Free agent center Francisco Elson has signed with the Sixers, one source told HoopsHype. Twitter
Mike
January 27th, 2012
10:09 am
I think that Hawks needs to stop being so passive about upgrading this squad. There is a very why they were ranked #28 out of 30 in Forbes’ annual team valuations. The only teams that makes less is the Grizz and Bucks.
Teams like Nets, Wiz, Kings and other bottom feeders has more value than the Hawks that has been in the playoffs consistaly. I believe that this should hurt ASG pride alot. I think this team needs a center and a superstar on this team. Or we might be contracted(IMO)
DS
January 27th, 2012
10:09 am
An alternative to sending Zaza to NO would be Kaman/Aminu for Kirk/Marvin. Salaries match, and those two players don’t have a definite role in their rotation.
Astro Joe
January 27th, 2012
10:17 am
Also keep in mind that the Hornets are using live games to develop their young players. This schedule doesn’t allow for a normal practice schedule, so with Eric Gordon injured, they seem to be taking a “the season is already lost” approach. The Hawks had the foresight to acquire two young bigs, Rolle and Benson. But due to the practicality of true practice time in this crazy season, they opted for a collection of old heads. heck, Ivan is 27 YO. I just don’t know that you can compare how a team that is looking at a top 5 lottery pick manages their roster vs. one that is competing for a top 5 seeding in their conference. Two very different strategies.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2012
10:18 am
To be clear, while I think Kaman is an upgrade over Zaza, I’d still probably prefer to just trade Kirk for a big man and keep Zaza on the roster. Depth is important, and 2 serviceable centers is better than one.
Rufus1
January 27th, 2012
10:20 am
http://www.hoopsworld.com/dwight-howard-we-have-to-change
D12 is getting frustrated.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2012
10:22 am
This one is a real long shot, but it gets Kaman to the Hawks without giving up Zaza.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7bllhmh
Kirk and Marvin to the Lakers
Kaman and Matt Barnes to the Hawks
Luke Walton and 2 first round picks (one each from Los Angeles and Atlanta) to the Hornets
Rufus1
January 27th, 2012
10:26 am
Prizbilla is going to want 5-8mil to play for any team.
Slimjr
January 27th, 2012
10:27 am
Kelvin
January 27th, 2012
8:59 am
“Doesn’t matter, the Hawks will make the playoffs and get eliminated in the first or second round as usual. This team has reached its ceiling, but in this town Hawks fans are content with mediocrity. I’m sure come playoff time we’ll all convince ourselves that the Hawks stand a chance to beat a team like Miami in a seven game series and then act disappointed when it doesn’t happen. If you want to know how the Hawks will do come playoff time just look at how they fair against upper echelon teams in the league.”
Ditto, same old Script?
After 47 years its about time to write a new one? Ya thinks?
Grandad
January 27th, 2012
10:27 am
For O’B:
Kaman is a more athletic player than Zaza with better hands.
Kaman is a very skilled low post player;;
Zaza has a good low post game, he just cannot finish;
Kaman can finish.
This season Kaman’s FG % is low comparitive to career numbers.
The biggest difference is Kaman can blk some shots.
This yr and career -over- 1.0 per game.
Overall – Kaman is better.
Zaza does what he does ! Plus he’s Rugged, Tough, & Durable.
Astro Joe
January 27th, 2012
10:29 am
Rufus, there aren’t but maybe 2-3 teams who are sitting on even $5M in cap space right now and they are most likely door mat teams who need a telescope to see the playoffs. And chances are, those kind of teams need to be playing young guys and not beat-up vets.
Mike
January 27th, 2012
10:30 am
Najeh,
I think we cant give up the 1st round pick this year(Danny Manning rule?) but i dont think that ASG would do that deal. Besides they might go over the LT and they dont want that.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2012
10:34 am
Coming off a knee injury and not having played in a year, no way Ghostface Przybilla gets more than the veterans’ minimum.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2012
10:42 am
“I think we cant give up the 1st round pick this year(Danny Manning rule?) ”
My understanding of the Danny Manning rule is that you can’t trade two consecutive first round picks in advance, not that you can’t trade your pick one year and then trade your pick again the next year. I may be wrong but I think that’s how it works. In other words the Hawks couldn’t have traded their 2011 and 2012 picks in the Hinrich deal, but their having traded their 2011 pick last year doesn’t impact their ability to trade their 2012 pick this year.
As far as luxury tax is concerned, that trade only adds $300,000 to the Hawks’ team salary, which may not put them over the tax line (and even if it does it can probably be offset by cutting Stackhouse).
Rufus1
January 27th, 2012
10:42 am
Astro Joe,
isn’t there a clause in the new CBA, if a player get hurtand is out for the season…you can use half his salary to sign new player, without going over into to the LUX Tax?…That would mean the Hawks could have 6mil to sign a player++++ If Al is lost for the season, don’t the hawks get insurance?
Rufus1
January 27th, 2012
10:47 am
Najeh Davenpoop,
David West go 10mil and he is 6′8. Priz is a 7ft rebounder/shot blocker and before he go hurt, I would have preferred him over Dalembert or Kwame.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 27th, 2012
10:50 am
Ted Stepien rule, not Danny Manning rule.
Astro Joe
January 27th, 2012
10:52 am
Rufus, I will check but I think that is a career-ending injury rule, but I think the player has to retire due to injury for that to kick in.
Grandad
January 27th, 2012
10:54 am
Najeh
On each of those trades; next yr -was- taken into consideration.
I anticipated that you would poke holes in each one.
(1) Biedrins:
Marv could be traded or amnestied / Al nor Josh …
would need to be jettisoned.
(2) Amir Johnson
makes less next yr than Marv
over the life of the contract 2 yrs as opposed to three (after this)
we would owe Marv just under $16,000,000;; Amir $18,000.000
(3) Chan Frye
ditto Amir’s contract ($18,500,000)
(4) Utah – the most unrealistic
However, I’ve read where they are seeking ways to move a Big
in order to let their you Bigs play.
They are not going to trade Millsap or Kanter.
(5) LAL;;
I have actually seen Josh Smith to LAL trade speculation
all over the place.
What ? You want to give him away ?
______________________________________________
Or ;;; we could just stay the same and not try !
Me ,,, I prefer to speculate on the possibilities !
Grandad
January 27th, 2012
11:01 am
Ted Stepien Rule
Definition:
The NBA prohibits teams from trading first-round draft picks in successive seasons.
Grandad
January 27th, 2012
11:05 am
* (4) young Bigs
** not `’`you’`’ Bigs
Michael Cunningham
January 27th, 2012
12:14 pm
new blog posted. shutting down this thread.