Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 97, Bucks 92

Yawn

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Hawks will need the bench to produce in at least 2 of these next 4 road games if they are to come out of this stretch with a 3-2 record. Simply can’t have starters play an entire half under these grueling circumstances for too many games.

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Joe Johnson’s MVP run continued tonight.

He also continues to own each and every one of you.

That is all.

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AJC is losing money in this economic down turn. Why else a beat writer not be in San Antonio for Hinrich’s potential return to the lineup??? Would they miss a Matty Ice/Falcons’ game????

Great 4th quarter performance by JJ – we will need more of those.

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The last three teams they play on this trip are bad. If they can manage a win in San Antonio on Wednesday, they give themselves a pretty decent chance of going 5-0 on this trip and being 17-5 a third of the way through the season.

They need better offensive execution than they had today in order to do that, though. Joe can’t be expected to play like he did in the second half today, and you know Popovich (the best coach in the league) is going to find a way to scheme the Hawks out of what they prefer to do.

The last time the Hawks beat the Spurs in San Antonio, Gregg Popovich was the interim head coach, Dominique Wilkins and Avery Johnson started for the Spurs, and Steve Smith led the Hawks with 25 points. It would be nice for this streak to come to an end.

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Oh yeah we still need a big who can rebound. Zaza rebounded well tonight but he’s a good back up, not starter. Allowing them 13 offensive boards is not good enough.

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I for one will admit;
Joe is playing the best basketball of his career right now.

I hope he continues to stay within the offense.

LD continues to grow as a Head Coach.

let’s see how far we can ride this ” Defense and Team Play ” concept !

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safe bet though is that LD will find some way to mess up the minutes distribution

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I agree with Najeh. If we beat the Spurs, the rest of the teams are scrubs. 5-0 is a great possibility.

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We are on a roll without Horford

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Con Joe Johnson y Josh Smith a este nivel somos un equipo muy dificil de vencer.Despues de tanto vilipendiar a Joe Johnson hemos de reconocer que está jugando muy bien.GO HAWKS!!!

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I wish the players, and mostly the analysts, would stop with all this “doin it without Al” nonsense. Al is a decent player, but they act like he was the best player on the team or something.

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So when Kirk comes back, who’s minutes get cut? Pargo? Green? TMac? Teague?(better not happen). I think Green or Pargo might turn into bench riders, even tho theyve both played pretty well. Gotta find minutes for Kirk and his 8 mill $ salary(Unless a trade is in the works).

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I get that the Hawks have had trouble holding leads. But, I think we need to realize this is the NBA. Teams make runs all the time. Just watch other games around the league. It is rare for any team to lead wire-to-wire. Sometimes I think we just look for labels to put on the Hawks. Right now it’s “they can’t hold a lead….”. Well, the same could be said for just about every team in the league.

Joe was incredible. He is having a great season.

Josh Smith is an All Star. If he does not make it this season, stop having the game. Just don’t play it anymore.

I’ve been on the T-Mac bandwagon since the season started. I think you get a better appreciation for him when you see him in person. He is never in a rush and usually makes the right read in any situation. Plus, he and Zaza just vibe together. The two have combined on several hoops this year. It is fun to watch.

Hawks can win on Wednesday. I think they’re better than San Antonio. Winning there is always tough, though.

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1 down 4 to to go. 3 and 2 will make this a very good road trip without Al. This team is a legit 10 men deep.

There is no reason for Drew not be playing those bench guys at least 12 minutes per night.

Hinrich is on the way back and even with Al out we still have 10 very productive players. The bench is our strength this year. Make sure we use it.

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Marvin the Enigma…

At a glance, it appears that Marvin is regressing…
But, Hawks are progressing…how does that work?…
Marvin has a good individual skill set, but where’s the stats?…

Similiar to, but not like, TMac, Marvin impacts the game other ways…
Marvin, TMac, ZaZa, Collins, Vlad, Green, Pargo are role players…
Won’t score alot of points, but will rebound, defend, assist…play smart.

This allows JJ, Smoove, Teague to dictate offensively for now…
We know it wont last, but that’s when they turn it on…
Shooting comes and goes, rebounding, defense is a constant…

Marvin’s scoring will return, his champion’s pedigree benefits in long run…

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Last yr at this time we were 11-7, and that was after starting the season with a 6gm win streak. We now lead our division, with the Eastern Conference’s 2nd best record, and have the NBAs 3rd best record overall(13-5). Even though our frontline is very shorthanded, we haven’t had a problem with them getting into foul trouble. That’s because our perimeter DEF has done a very good job of keep guards from consistently attacking the lane and challenging our perimeter DEF.

Teague’s overall play, especially on DEF, has allowed us to get far more easy baskets than we got last yr, and prevented teams from getting as many easy baskets against us. I kept saying our interior DEF would improve with the improvement of our perimeter DEF, and I used Denver getting rid of DEF liability Iverson and premier shotblocker Camby, and acquiring PG CBillups, as an example.

Not having Horford and Josh switching off and ending up on the perimeter has allowed them to increase their shotblocking and overall interior DEF. Zaza’s rebounding has increased as well, and for the same reason. I think WGreen will be the player affected most by Hinrich’s return. Pargo will likely continue as Teague’s replacement at PG, while Hinrich will backup JJ, at least until he’s fully recovered and in gm shape. We all know Sloan with be the odd man out when Hinrich returns.

Pargo is a vet that plays solid DEF and has been really playing well offensively of late. Stackhouse will remain on the team for the same reason he made the team in the 1st place, and that’s his veteran leadership and experience. Ivan Johnson is now solidified himself as an NBA fixture for the next several yrs, and hopefully they will all be as a Hawk.

Last yr our DEF, or lack thereof, hurt us a lot, and a lot of the blame for that is because of HC LDrew. He was the one who over utilized Bibby as a starter, while under utilizing Teague, and misusing Jamal as a backup PG. Those moves forced him to continue the SWITCHING DEF philosophy that Woodson utilized to try and minimize the damage Bibby and Jamal’s DEF liabilities were causing.

While I’ve never been a big Kenyon Martin fan, I’d take him in a second over what we’ve settled for in the past, like HArmstrong, MRolle, EThomas, JPowell etc. I don’t believe any of them are even in the NBA now. If we entered the playoffs with a healthy KHinrich and AHorford, along with KMart, we could really make some serious noise and have a very good chance of advancing to the Eastern Conference finals.

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I’m going to hold off my praise of this team until after February. We’ve been fortunate to face mostly sub .500 teams since Al has went out. I must say that I am still impressed though especailly with Josh, Joe, JT, and the bench. This may turn out to be the most complete team the Hawks have ever had. Also, what’s up with this idiot on the blog wanting to trade our All Star center for a guy that got out played by Za Za and another guy that got a DNP coaches decision for a team that is below .500.

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Just pay attention to the minutes played when reviewing Marvin’s stats. Hard to grab 10 boards when you play around 24-28 minutes/game. Regardless of what he is doing on the floor, LD subs him with around 4:00 left in the first and third quarters. I’m not complaining as the team iswinning, just making the statement more in terms of Marvin’s individual stats. If the teams wins, then the minute distribution is unimportant.

Hinrich may return exactly one month after the start of the season. I think that is a good 2-4 weeks earlier than originally forecasted. I hope he isn’t rushing back (like Joe did last year after his elbow issue).

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I really think this team would be better by trading Marvin, starting Vlad, and using Tmac in a sixth man role

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returnof4eva, Brendan has an awful contract that seemingly lasts forever. And TMac is already playing the 6th man role, but he also has already missed some games with back issues. So I think it is risky to count on him playing every game like Jamal did for us the past few years. This team has been winning with Marvin in the starting line-up, no need to change. Plus, I don’t think “starting” is as important as overall playing time and finishing games. Marvin plays as many minutes as a bench player and rarely finishes close games.

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every body bashes having Marvin in the starting lineup but he made the defensive play of the game down the stretch

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We are now 25% through the regular season. I remember LD talking about the tough stretch we were dealt the first of the season. I’m not feeling that the Hawks have been at any disadvantage in the schedule.
We have played well for the most part and if I recall, we have laid 3-4 eggs we could have easily won. I couldn’t imagine us being this good this early, but that bench has been very productive and it hasn’t been dependent on any one jersey.
The next 25% will establish whether we are legit or not. I expect no major changes going forward as we try to win the division with an inconsistent Heat team, a Magic team without a true blueprint, and a Chicago team the requires their team to play well each night. We appear to be in the thick of things and its the first time in a while I have felt we have a legit chance to contend.
Saying that, I’m off the Marvin bashing/amnesty wishing wagon. I want whatever contributions he can give us or throw someone as good in there making a fraction of his pay.
I’m buying the entire team concept because all these guys can play and fill important roles. There is room for improvement and when Josh’s jumpers don’t fall, we could fall just as quick.

But I’m backing this team going forward and I’ll take LD’s decisions as the right ones going forward.

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for those who wonder why we pay Joe the money we do

that 4th quarter in Milwaukee is why

he will come alive offensivly when no one else on the team is

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Agreed, Astro Joe. I hope to see Marvin, TMAC and Ivan pick up some more minutes on this long trip.

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@KevinM

the Hawks have the 18th ranked SOS according to ESPN.com

but look who’s SOS is ranked below ours

Oklahoma City, Dallas, Denver, Chicago, Boston, Orlando, Philadelphia, New York, and Indiana

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The win is a good start for the road trip.

Sports is such a funny game. If Josh misses that 3 and we lose, there would be so much venom on the blog from the bad shot selection, the team’s inconsistent play etc. But he makes the shot, and is one of the heroes (along with JJ).

The good.
1) Props to JJ for a great second half, playing like the perennial AS that he is.
2) Good game by Josh. If he can continue to fill the stat sheet, and the team continues to win, he has a chance to make the all-star game (especially if Hawks keep winning, and Knicks and Celtics keep struggling). And Al being out will help the Hawks campaign, because if we keep winning, we should have 2 all-stars.
3) Should Teague be a candidate for most improved player? Prior to this year, his average (in limited and inconsistent minutes) was 4 pts, 1 reb, 2 assists per game. This season, he is at 12.5 pts, 6 assists, and 2 rebs per game, and improved defense, playing for a first place team.

The bad:
1) There were multiple possessions when JJ dribbles in the paint, and then passes to Josh for a 20+ foot jumper. I don’t like those possessions.
2) There have been instances when Teague has a good first quarter, but then disappears until the 4th. I would like to see more consistency out of him.
3) Offensive rebounding. We need to do a better job controlling the boards when the other teams miss.
4) Josh, JJ and Teague are playing a lot of minutes. We will need them fresh as the season winds down, so bench players (and LD) need to step up.
5) We still need more consistency from our offense

That being said, happy for the win. Bucks were 4-1 at home, and had just beat Miami in Miami. Hopefully we can build on it.

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Green > Pargo.

Dude has been on fire. I wish LD would get more plays made for this guy.

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If I had to choose who gets less minutes, when Hinrich returns, out of Pargo or Willie Green I am going to go with Pargo. I think offensively Green is a better option.

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JJ reminded me of John Drew last night in how he took over the game down the stretch. I hope there’s more of that to come.

I’m hoping Teague’s minutes do decrease some, to save him for the playoffs. This 40+ minutes per nite in the compressed season is not good.

And if Brad Miller’s healthy, I’m up for that Hinrich/Miller Trade AJ suggested. I like Hinrich, but we do need 1 more inside banger.

But I’m for signing Kenyon Martin also when he’s available, instead of Miller.

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This is going to be a rough game against the Spurs because we don’t have anyone that really match-ups up well against Duncan. They don’t have anyone that match-ups well against JJ, but I think the advantage goes to the Spurs. Josh is going to have to attack Duncan off the dribble, which I don’t think Pop is going to allow to often. It will be good to have Hinich back because that will gives us another perimeter defender against all their guards. Overall I think we’re going to have to be really efficient on offensive to be successful. No poor multi-possession sequences like in the Philly game, along with making free-throws.

GO HAWKS!!

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Astro Joe

I just like the way they are winning….They are grinding out wins and are playing tough DEFENSE….They are playing tough minded basketball.

I don’t ever remember them playing like this….They feel different and I have more confidence in them this year(even without Al) than I have ever had.

Go Hawks!

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STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, TMAC, JOSH, GORTAT

BENCH PARGO, GREEN, VLAD, IVAN, ZAZAZ

RESERVE STACK, COLLINS, SLOAN

CUT CHILL FROM TEAM

Trading with Chill in package was the baite to get Gortat
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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darrell, don’t see how PHX giving up Gortat makes them better, even salary wise…he’s not that expensive as a starting C.
Chills and Marvin though is a wash; they both should be on min contracts, but they aren’t. There simply are GMs out there who outnegotiate themselves….remember Grunfeld/Arenas when Arenas was hurt? Too many examples here.
SLAMB – the Hawks are 18th toughest but you wouldn’t hear LD say that…he was woe is us…but he is the mental presence for this team, and its his job to motivate the troops….for the most part, they are buying into LD.

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@darrell starks – why would Phoenix make that trade?

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Young bucks!

“I really think this team would be better by trading Marvin, starting Vlad, and using Tmac in a sixth man role” -returnof4eva-
_____________

calm down my friend, “the old gray mare just ain’t what she used to be.”
TMac does not have the legs for a permanent 6th man role, he has barely been able to suit up for 6 games total so far this season. and this season’s truncated schedule is brutal even for the young guns.

these players are not horses and are still human. the agility of the NBA has been debated and determined to be the BEST conditioned athletes of all sports in the world. this is not an easy game to play by ANY stretch of the imagination.

i tried to play basketball as a college course elective and barely passed witha D+ … i was awful, ehile at the same time the STAR of my tennis team at the College of Charleston in the eARLY ‘80′S. TENNIS is my racket! i had childhhod dreeams of being a pro player, but had to succomb to serious spinal defect … therefore, i became a chiropractor through all of the experiences. thank GOD for the three titanium rods and four pedicle screws, i can still live a dream life though.

i wouldnt push TMac too hard though he has spinal problems and knee problems and while still young at 31, he needs to be closely monitored for the post season. he is so special and important for us in the post season.

respect the game! it is a lot harder than it looks.

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Why not, Pheonix are not a contender a may need to starte a new direction with youth Marvin is only 25years of age with lots of potential.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Well for a team that is playing well without a major starter in the lineup to me I am happy with the wins we have gotten recently. Defense wins chips and when u play good defense your offense will come soon. Keep up the good work, our bench has been playing well most of the year so far last night they didnt have it, but that is not every night.

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Gortat would not fit, he likes to shoot, we need a defensive rebounder who doesn’t command the ball

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Great Post!

‘2) There have been instances when Teague has a good first quarter, but then disappears until the 4th. I would like to see more consistency out of him.’ -O’Brien-
__________

nice job OB on that entire game synopsis from ya’. i think jeff broods a little when josh doesnt give him the ball to initate plays sometimes.

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*weeks*

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“Green > Pargo.” – Big Lou

/cosign. Green had some bad games early before he caught fire and I lumped him in with Pargo as a marginal NBA player. But he’s won at least one game for the Hawks with hot shooting. With Kirk back I’m guessing they cut Sloan and I hope Pargo never sees anything but garbage time again.

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Phoenix is not trading gortat and we dont want him. What we need is an elite defensive center bigman- that’s not gortat. Gortat is

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I think Duncan will get the benefit of all the calls against Ivan, plus Duncan is a smart veteran. However, I would put Ivan on him briefly, with the instructions that if you’re going to foul, foul him hard.

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Flip Saunders has been fired according to ESPN. If the Knicks continue their losing ways, D’Antoni might not be far behind, especially since the Knicks have an established coach on the bench already (Woody).

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Marc Stein’s power rankings; Hawks are 9th, up from 12th last week;

Apologies to the Hawks. They’ve mostly beaten up on patsies in this 5-1 run without Al Horford, but there’s been no dip from them yet. Larry Drew actually called them out for some surrender signs in Friday’s loss in Philly … and they responded by shredding Cleveland by 27..

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McGee would be awesome!!!

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“Hawks can win on Wednesday. I think they’re better than San Antonio. Winning there is always tough, though.”

San Antonio’s last four games have all been decided by three points or less, and not against particularly good competition either. They are beatable, I agree.

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Alozo mourning was traded for glen rice, shaq traded for lamar oden and both were elite centers. Mcgee is not elite and will not command such a high price. The only question is whether mcgee will fit with what we are trying to do and whether he would fit in chemistry wise as a teammate. I have doubts

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“Who is making all that NOISE?(asked John Hollinger)….

Oh, it’s those BLEEEEEEEEEEPING HAWKS!!!!! Why don’t they just go away, so I can look like the basketball GENIUS I am.”

The funny thing is, his own fully automated power rankings have shown the Hawks a ton of love this year, and he still won’t give the Hawks any credit. All he ever tweets about when he covers Hawks games (quite frequently since he lives in ATL) are the crowd and Ryan Cameron.

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They want to give most improved to ryan anderson, but i agree jeff has been very good and played excellent defense, deserves consideration. Sweet assist to josh for game winning 3 last night

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Bulls are looking at bringing back Oberto to back up Noah….are they not satisfied with Asik?

Where are ya Sund? Anything….

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darrell starks Al brings nothing to the 4 position but average play. Why on earth, would you want to move Josh from the 4 to make room for Al ? That has proven to be a chemistry issue and it cogs down the offense.

Not the best move.

Al is better coming off the bench to help the new center or Josh, or even better use in a trade scenario.

You don’t down grade a position’s talent level to incorporate your favorite player.

Moreover, it’s going to be quite a while before Al with return to his career numbers, 12pts,9rbs. Until that time Al should not start. Like Hinrich, with Teague Al should earn and work his way back to the rotation and line up. Zaza is playing great and so is Ivan. When Al gets back from the prone injured list he will just be another big sitting on the bench. Don’t expect Al to put in any meaningful numbers, this year.

You may want to understand the severity of the injury and the time line back to peak playing performance level. I don’t expect much from Al, this year. Some players never make it back to there previous levels, not that 12pts 9 rebounds is a high level. What im saying is Al has to make it back and earn his way. His return to his career levels is not a given.

Earning his way back may change his controversial attitude of ” I want to play this position or that position” to a ” I just want to play” attitude that works better in a team environment and keeps the fights down in the locker.

Thumbs down on moving Jsmoove out of his position to appease Al’s persistence.

What ever happened to whats best for the team?

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*Moreover, it’s going to be quite a while before Al will return to his career numbers, 12pts,9rbs.

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“Joe (and Teague and Josh) played all 24 minutes after halftime. “The one thing I wanted to do in the second half was get him into a rhythm,” Larry Drew said. “I had my mind made up I was going to ride him in the second half.”

It would be nice to put a film clip of that swing around dagger 3 from jj to teague to smoove on the highlight reel.

It personifies the New Core.

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“in the NBA, you actually have to know how to play to help your team win, and it seems that part doesn’t interest McGee as much as the highlight-tape stuff. After playing in almost 230 games, there’s no way McGee should still be so ineffective at pick-and-roll defense. His head isn’t in the game nearly enough.”

Cosigning

McGee has all the skills and physical tools but , I don’t see the desire. Almost the same with 6′ 10″ 250lbs Al Horford.

All the physical tools with out the desire.

In the words of Benjamen Franklin. ” hunger is the best pickle” – Poor Richards Almanac

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Joe Mama, did you just compare McGee’s mentality to Horford’s? Please tell me that I misunderstood.

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AJ,

Depending on what the Wiz would want in return, I would take a chance on McGee. Sometimes a change of environment, a winning culture, and players he can look up to can help someone’s maturity.

However, he is in the last year of his deal and will be a restricted FA this offseason. Would you make a run at him at the deadline (if the price is right?).

Although the ASG’s history tells us that they would not make such a risky move for McGee. They dont want anyone to rock the boat.

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Personally, I hope the best for McGee, but he’s on track to be like Kwame Brown. Brown and McGee have great physical gifts and raw talent. But they both have problems consistently putting that talent to work. Brown has never been tough enough mentally to work through games in which he wasn’t shooting well and also really didn’t like to bang down low. McGee consistently blocks shots, but doesn’t keep them in play and almost never moves in the right position to get rebounds. McGee also looks tired all the time, I think he might have some form of asthma. If I were the Wizards I definitely wouldn’t give up on him yet, but as a HAWKS fan I wouldn’t mind having him.

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Mcgee is a CLOWN…They need to trade him to Boston for Pierce, so he can teach them how to win?

The Wiz should hire Woodson…He wouldn’t tolerate that kind of behavior…Ask Josh.

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Didn’t Rasheed Wallace earn a certain rep in Portland? But didn’t he help Det win a title? Didn’t Zach Randolph also earn a certain rep early on his career? How is he doing in Menphis?

People respond differently to different situations, different coaches, different cultures etc., and McGee’s current issues (imo) doesn’t mean he couldn’t change if he got a change of scenery.

And if it doesn’t work out, you trade him. Low risk, high reward (imo), depending on price of course.

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Bogut goes 3-10, and finishes with 6 pts, 12 rebs and 4 asissts, going up against our backup center ZaZa, who finished with 9 pts, 14 rebs, and 1 assist.

Meanwhile, Leuer DNP Coach’s decision.

Where is the Bogut and Leur supporter today?

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I think McGee is a better player than Kwame. Kwame’s career high is 11 and 7 in ’03-04, and has never averaged more than 1.2 blocks per game. This year, McGee is averaging 11, 9 and 3, and at only 24 years old, there is still room for improvement.

Anyways, I dont think the ASG would a) take on McGee and his issues and b) be a trade match with Washington.

Somebody else mentioned him, but Phoenix is not going to offer Robin Lopez an extension, so he will be a RFA this offseason. He may be someone the Hawks could target, depending on his cost.

I think the Hawks window to get to the ECF is closing. Knicks and Celtics are struggling, while the Pacers and Sixers are getting better. There is uncertainty in Orlando.

JJ is over 30, and who knows when his rapid decline will kick in. Will Josh re-sign when his contract is up? Time to make a move and go for it this year and next (imo).

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Wednesday’s game against San Antone is what one would call a critical matchup. What we will see out of the HAWKS is anyones guess. The win against Milwaukee showed some resolve. Josh hit some big jump shots and that is scary as all get out. Remember, he was doing that before they ran into Philly and jumped shot us out of that game in the 3rd quarter. Tomorrow could be a disaster, I have the feeling everyone on the team is secretly worried about that. Dwight Gooden hit a three, there’s a lil luck in every game. If Josh rebounds, plays strong inside and give the ball to the guards he could have a good game, if he goes to “I AM THE STAR” mode, then the HAWKS are screwed. I wanted to go see the game but will catch it on the tube. I got some coward in me about spending the money to watch scary play.

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You guys are crazy if we had a chance to add Mcgee its a no brainer. Call me crazy but the only thing Al does betteris shoot the mid range jumper. We have enuff jump shooters. Give me a 7 ft jumping jack/shotblocker to pair with josh and we’re on our Way.

I would totally do a Horford/2nd for Mcgee/Young

Teague/JJ/Marvin/Josh/Mcgee…Bench: Heinrich/Green/Young/ZaZa/Ivan/Vlad/TMac

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Regarding the acquisition of McGee, Hawks Management would have to ask themselves, could they likely draft a better 7-footer at their projected draft position, probably not. Given his low BBIQ, perhaps he’s a late bloomer from a glass half-full viewpoint. If they consider him a “green” rookie, still teachable in the right environment, he could be worth the risk if he’s available for a 1st or 2-2nd rd picks. If so, at least the idea has merit.

Granted that’s a lot of “ifs”, but Sund should at least ask the questions.

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Josh + McGee = MiGraine

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igdad, was going to say marvin for young and mcghee.

it would be fine to see him blossum elsewhere and hw i would sellmot.

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Najeh,

Not sure if you saw this on Jeff Schultz blog; Why the score boards are the way they are.

Williams (Hawks and Philips Arena president) phoned back. In short, this is their story: The boards began to malfunction during the Atlanta Dream season. The plan was to “re-bulb” them, but manufacturers said doing that would risk burning out the drivers. This, according to Williams, was in September. The plan now is to replace the boards after the season with new high-definition boards that will cost “well into seven figures.”

So the boards will remain blank during the season. .

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Steve,

I think Boston will trade KG and/or Ray Allen before they trade Pierce. He is a lifelong Celtic, and team captain, and therefore, I think he would be their last resort trade.

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I Mus write Its nice to know there are others here on the planet of reality. You are spot on. Its a no brainer and I actually see Josh’s growth from a highschooler to a Professional as something that may be good for McGee. 3Blks per game? Low post presence? Iikes the role and is a naturalist? 7fter? Inexpensive? Young? 11pts 9rbs?(al like numbers LOL)

Write on I mus Write on. NO BRAINER THUMBS UP. best we can do on todays market straight up trade injured shoulder with attitude for an injured mind with and attitude

as dolomite would say, “even swap ain’t no swindle.

DO IT NOW ASG

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Grandad give me a P. O box to ship these Excedrins.

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Could you imagine closing out games occasionally with TMac at Point, Ray Allen at SG, and JJ at the 3? That would be nearly unstoppable.

But I’m going to guess it takes more than Hinrich and some 2nd picks to get Allen from Beantown.

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And down goes Deng with torn wrist ligaments. Out “awhile” according to Coach TT.

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a door might have just opened rather than a window of op basg.

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If the Hawks got Ray Allen, I would start him at SG, and let JJ play SF.

But the Hawks just dont have any good trade chips. Ray Allen is in the last year of his deal, so trading him for Hinrich does not do Boston any good.

As for Marvin, dude can be a solid role player. But after this season, he still has 2 years, $16 mil left on his deal (assuming he picks up his last year option). The only way a team will take Marvin is if we are getting a bad contract in return (imo).

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Really, when you think about it, acquiring Allen is redundant with Willie Green and Vlad on the team

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“Dwight Gooden hit a three, there’s a lil luck in every game.”

Good thing the game wasn’t played in ATL, what with the World of Coke and all.

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“tell williams to add wifi and i will game channel my own info instead of the stuff they throw up there now. aj send at&t to the rescue.

Hell yeah. Especially since I get absolutely no AT&T signal inside the arena.

By the way doc, your iphone posts are harder to understand than the guy who posts in Spanish. Too bad Google Translate doesn’t work on them…

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At the risk of defending the ASG, Philips is a GREAT arena and if I were Philips, I would NOT allow any electrical problems in an arena that they title sponsor. The casual fan is more likely to think that Philpis products don’t work than they are to think that the ASG is a bad landlord.

I love how some of y’all are convinced that every player can become something special. It is one thing to think that there is good in everyone, it is another to think that there is a consistent double-double in everyone.

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People talk as if Javale was properly coached.

Flip Saunders is an average to below average coach. The problem with the Wiz simply comes down to them not having a true “go-to guy” on the team. You have complimentary players like McGee, Blatche, Young ( even Wall and Jordan Crawford ), who all have the green light to shoot like they’re the #1 option in the offense.

Taking Flip serious when it comes to coaching defense, is like taking Mike D’Antoni serious when he talks about defense. They both try to preach defense, despite putting offense first type talent on the floor.

Chris Broussard said it all on ESPN.

When the Wiz held a players only meeting a few weeks ago, one of the things the younger players wanted, was for Flip to hold them more accountable. They even told the vets to tell Flip that ( according to Broussard ).

Imagine that? Younger players WANTING to be held more accountable and having more responsibility placed on them, and not wanting to be let off the hook.

The Wiz are like a teenage kid that acts out negatively to get attention . . because the parents don’t pay them enough attention.

McGee is FAR from the problem in Washington. He’s one of the bright spots.

The REAL ISSUE may be that John Wall isn’t nowhere near as good as he ( and others ) think he is, and needs to be more of a pass-first PG, than a PG that tries to pass and score.

When you shoot 22% on long 2 point shots ( but take almost 5 shots from that range a game ) . . and you can’t make a 3 pointer . . maybe you shouldn’t be the guy taking the most shots on the team.

And maybe the coach should be the one telling you that. But he didn’t. And that’s why he got fired.

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So Marvin finished with 8 points – 4 rebounds – 2 steals in 22 minutes ( 13 points – 6 rebs – 3 steals if he played 36 minutes ) . . and JJ finished with 26 points, not 28 points.

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Tom Izzo

“You can win a game with distractions, but you can’t win a championship”

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Tom Izzo

‘`You can win a game with distractions, but you can’t win a championship”

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Northcyde,

Which Schultz blog says that?

Wiz need to overpay for a vet big to teach Blatche and McGee how to take that next step.

Javale is a legit seven footer

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Nvm I see it.

I am not sold on John Wall either. give me Kemba over him. And watch Diaw own the Knicks tonight. he is MIA in most gma not VS NYK

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To be fair, I barely get a signal in Turner Field too, but that still doesn’t mean DASG can’t offer Wi-Fi.

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Two quick fouls on Dwight. Pacers capitalizing on him being out the game big time. Up 10 already.

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I dont quite understand what kind of seeds Grandad is trying to plant but Josh and Drew get along very well, in fact they get along very very well as do All the hawks. This team has very good chemistry, especially that Al is out of the way there no fighting in the locker room.

Hate on Grandad. This is Josh’s team. Al is the trouble maker.

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I think I would pass on McGee. But I will admit, I see the Heat making a run for McGee with Mike Miller and two draft picks or something. Only way I would trade for McGee is, if its going to be Marvin for McGee.

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Dont get me wrong if I have a choice between getting a Diaw or Mcgee I will take Mcgee any day. I think you need a strong leader to be able to have him focus. Doesnt seem like a bad kid just seems a bit immature to me.

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The only reservation I have about McGee is that his mom is hanging around enabling him. I agree that a team with solid veteran leadership — which the Hawks have some of now — can acquire a knucklehead and straighten him out, but if mom is whispering in the player’s ear, straightening him out can become a little tougher.

I still don’t think the Wizards will trade him within the division for spare parts, though.

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Yes Mary, your statement is moronic, but why am I not surprised.

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A positive article about the Hawks…..one of the few

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/britt_robson/01/24/power.rankings/index.html?sct=nba_t12_a1

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najeh ditto on mom of mcghee a champion bbalker herself at ucla i think. her response was vrry sad after the slam off the board. she is likely a difficult part of what it will take for him to get serious about his game.

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KevinM – What you say makes sense. If the Bulls think Asik can be as good or better than Noah, and they can get Asik cheaper as a RFA, they may be trying to dump Noah. Isn’t Asik averaging like 6.9 rebounds per game in under 17 mpg? That’s almost Rodmanisque rebounding numbers (but not). Ok, more like almost Howard or Love numbers, but you get the drift.

Noah’s due to make like 13 and 14 mill per year four and 5 years from now. If he’s becoming garbage (relatively speaking), that’s going to be a bad contract.

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Was wrong on Diaw wow.

How do Magic get owned by depleted Celts then destroy Indy on road?

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“harder to understand than the guy who posts in Spanish.”

Oh, you mean sautee when he uses yahoo translator

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“If “ifs” and “ands” were Pots and pans the world would be a kitchen,” -joe mama-
__________

LMAO

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Eric – I’m saying that if ASG would eat the payroll, or if Chicago is desperate for a 2 and a 3 (now that Deng is out for awhile), and if they’re wanting to dump Noah, I’d give them Marvin and Hinrich for him, or just Marvin or Hinrich.

Then you could move Josh to 3, have Al at 4, and Noah at 5. I wasn’t saying Noah over Al. Noah has had a tough season to this point. Don’t know why.

And the best thing about Hinrich coming back, is resting Teague and JJ. If he can just give both those guys an extra 5 minutes per nite off, that will be great, and save them for the playoffs.

And if .500 will get you into the playoffs, the Hawks just have to go 20-28 the rest of the way to get in.

Getting back to Noah – I don’t like his contract.

But I’ve got a feeling about these Hawks I haven’t felt since the 80’s – We are 1 piece away from a championship. That’s the feeling I’ve got. We vastly overpayed for Hinrich last year, at least it seemed it at the time. 2 1st’s and Mo’ Evans? But we had to do it in order to improve – and we beat Orlando with Hinrich in there.

We may have to overpay for our next move also, like to get a healthy Brad Miller – He did play 60 games at good quality for Houston last season before getting hurt, and played 82 games for Chicago the year before – to compete for a Championship. Give us 1 more semi – legit Big, and we can make a run this season. I feel it. If Horford comes back, all the better.

If Horford gets back, we may can make a Championship push keeping Hinrich. We’ll see. Next few months should be interesting.

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Yeah Grandad, you aren’t the only one who brings up the fight. but you weren’t there and neither was I. So don’t try and paint Josh as the villain. Josh has always said he do or play where ever the team needed him to. He just wanted to win.

As for the “locker-room dissension, ” you have your version, but the version ive seen on the sites says that Josh, JJ and Marvin all confronted Al about always saying hes going to play this position or that position and not thinking about whats best for the team, then josh got in his face can called him out. Teague was behind Al but its not clear that he was going to help Al, or jump him from behind or if he was just in an awkward position. Nobody knows for sure so what ever you are saying or however you are trying to say Larry Drew is having problems with Josh , who started the fight just inst true. Although Michael Cunningham confirmed there was some drama going on in the locker room you weren’t there neither was I. So stop trying to make Josh out to be the issue. From All accounts Al appears to be the issue. Were you there?
Josh is just trying to play ball. Its Al who is unhappy about playing center and has said hed find it very interesting to be traded to Orlando.

Please stop hating on Josh and let the man play. Josh said earlier this season that he and Larry get along very well and Larry Drew tells Josh to handle his business on the court . So please, stop the hating. The chemistry of this team is much better since Al left. these guys get along are are trying to win. why dont you just root for the team and enjoy the games?

Please stop the hating.

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Earlier in the evening I made mention of the following:

Compare & Contrast PER vs (+/-)
(individual players) v (player ranking within a group of five)

1st I wish to examine PER *(Hollinger) within itself:
Exp; which show the fallacy of such rankings based solely on stats.
*pg – Lou Williams > Rondo
*[2] – Sundiata Gaines > Ray Allen
*[F] – Melo > Bosh (some may agree)
*[F] – Al Harrington > K.Humphries, Granger, & Nene
*[4] – Bargnani > Pau Gasol
*[5] – Marcin Gortat > Andrew Bynum

** note I did not list plyr rating; you can look it up / or just trust me.
_____________________________________________

The next is a random list of plyrs with an excellent (+/-) rating;
*Granger; *Paul George; *Luis Scola; *Jameer Nelson; *Chris Bosh;
*Omer Asik; *Mark Gasol; Jrue Holiday; *Gerald Wallace;
*Jeff Teague & Vladimir Radmanovic

A somewhat more diverse group.
______________________________________________

Now for the comparisons and comments.

Hollinger’s list had such players as:
*CJ Watson; *Mo Williams; *Kyrie Irving; * Marshon Brooks;
*Jarrett Jack; *Nate Robinson; *Chris Anderson; *Jose Calderon;
*Tiago Splitter; Jon Leuer; *Ryan Anderson; & Tony Parker

ranked ahead of many on the (+/-) list,

as some should be.
_____________________________________________

Now, where has all this taken us ?

1st of all – the PER at the top is as it should be. [top 10 or 15]
But, the longer one scans Hollinger’s list; more & more hiccups
begin to occur.
Perhaps the Biggest was Marvin Williams > Luol deng,Nicolas Batum,
John Wall, Gerald Wallace, Joakim noah, & Matt Barnes ….. sigh

-what to make of all this-

(+/-) is a team stat & the better the team; the better your (+/-) score.
some of the PER rankings had some very good players ranked high:
Kyrie Irving for exp.
Would his stat line be lower on a better team ….. probably,
conversely wouldn’t his (+/-) rating be higher on a better team ? yes.

My point is;
you have to take each with a pinch of salt.
Josh Smith for example;
his PER takes his attitude and B-ball IQ out of the equation supposedly.
However Josh was only ranked 38th on the PER list.
Based on stats alone – I cannot imagine many players better than Josh.
Even Hollinger’s stats are flawed as they are overly weighted in some areas
and in my opinion cannot possibly reflect a great ‘`team’` defensive player.
One other item;
LBJ is on top of both PER and (+/-),
therefore he must be pretty good & most valuable.
____________________________________________

That’s enough for one evening.

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1:02 am

* Should have been *Deng and one space lower *Noah

** rather than deng & noah

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“My point is;
you have to take each with a pinch of salt.”

All these stats like plus/minus and PER try to accomplish the same goal — to show how good a player is individually, independent of team context. None of them actually accomplish this goal. No stat yet has been able to fully and accurately isolate a player’s individual ability from the team context.

In my opinion, the best way to use those stats is to cross-check where a player stands under each stat, use that to supplement what you see with your eyes, and hope your eyes ain’t playing tricks on you. The people who try to rely too heavily on stats (in any sport) usually end up making fools of themselves.

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Gordon may get $12M extension….

Apparently, Kobe, Lebron, DHoward approved Gordon’s extension…
Nevertheless, we still can get Okafor…w/ 3way with Indiana…

Marvin/Hinrich to NO
Granger to NO
Gordon to Indy
Okafor to Atl

cut a couple bench guys are we’re good to go…

Spurs will be good test, Hawks not a good road team…
Spurs well disciplined, battle tested but old…
Hawks mentally weak, we’ll get good feedback on needs…

Would like to see Hinrich, but probably should wait…
Get a good read on this core, don’t build in any excuses…

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Najeh

I hope that was the point I made.

My original motive was to disprove Javale McGee’s effectiveness
solely by using stats, after some folks began using his potential
based on his physical prowess thus citing statistical improvement
to offset his mental deficiencies.

I’m with you that the eye test is what counts most.
Accordingly, when scouting a player, I go entirely with what I see.

Team stats (+/-) tell alot if you know the team.

example:
Teaguer leads the Hawks in (+/-)
Is he our best player ? … No.
At this point in time;
is he the player we can least afford to do without ? … probably so.

What team stats show the most though;
and what I used them for, was who worked well together.
(combinations)
It is also helpful to know – not who your best 5 players are ?
But, who your best five who play together are ?
That is who you want on the floor in the 4th Qtr.
The Hawks:
Teaguer, Joe, V-Rad, T-Mac, & Josh.

From your observation the other night;
that does not specifically frame the defensive end of the floor.
True.
But, overall the five I mentioned produce at a higher rate together.

So, as far as your statement ….. “the eye test”
determining who’s the better player, I agree.

Stats are meant to be an aid; never the answer !

Stats will never measure the head and the heart.

Now we’re back to JaVale McGee;
does he have the head & the heart of a champion ?

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Also:

It’s not that I particularly like Diaw, in particular because he does not behave professionally – although again, as mentioned for McGee, that could change with the Hawks – BUT:

His skill set would fit on the Hawks offense really well:

Diaw is a fairly good shooter and could lodge minutes at the C spot taking the exact same elbow and baseline shots that Al does (being able also to knock the 3 ball).

He is an excellent passer, which coupled with knock down shooters like JJ and V-Rad and coupled with Josh and Teague’s slashing ability would allow us to break zones with Diaw manning the high post and passing to the shooter or the slasher.

He is – when motivated – a decent rebounder and decent man to man defender (not talking about first class, but decent).

I love Hinrich but looking at how we are right now, I think Diaw would make real sense for us.

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Well to get Jevale Mcgee your saying we have to take Rashard Lewis. Ok lets do this deal Marvin,Zaza and Hinrich and a 2nd pick or trade exception whatever we have to make the trade work. Rashard Contract ends next yr so we owe marvin and zaza 31 million it all comes out in the wash. I would do it.

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WHO THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT WE NEED BRAD MILLER? YALL NEED TO COME UP WITH SCENARIOS THAT A MAKE THE TEAM BETTER NOT WORSE. CHICAGO A NEVER GIVE UP NOAH FOR MARVIN AND HINRICH,WTF. YOU GUYS WANT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING. AL FOR MCGEE IS GOOD FOR ME AND WE PROBABLY A GET ANOTHER PLAYER BACK OR A PICK WHICH WILL BE TOP FIVE CAUSE THEY ARE HORRIBLE. WITH MCGEE WE’LL HAVE OUR INSIDE DEFENDER .YOU GOTTA PAY TO PLAY PIMPIN,ALL THAT HALF ASS RENOVATING YALL DOING NOT GOING TO WORK,THE HOUSE STILL HAS HOLES IN IT BUT YOU WANNA PAINT OVER IT.

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@HITMAN JAMILLION I just looked at washington roster and they real dont have anybody besides Jevale Mcgee that could make that work for Al Horford. We would be way upside down on that trade. Im sure they are not giving up a 1st rd pick in a deal like that. But if the hawks can gather a inside presence and the bench joe and Josh keep it up they would be scary come playoffs.

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crawford>tmac

January 25th, 2012
6:16 am

Crawford is shooting .36 from the floor .30 from 3 point land.

Get real.

McGrady may be washed up but when he is on the floor, everyone around him is instantly better.

I was never ever a fan o McGrady – and I am still not sold on him since I think his poor conditioning is the main cause for his irregular contributions – but it’s a no contest between having Crawford or a solid group of veterans capable of offering multiple things towards winning games.

We have had virtually everyone in our bench making critical contributions to wins this season.

Crawford was indeed spectacular here and there but was also horrible in so many games that it was hard to watch.

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Vava,
Teamwork wins where FLASH teases. TMac makes everybody else better whenever he’s on the floor. That’s TEAMWORK.

Dr.Mary,
Seal done run off the Poo Poo. Saw him on Ellen yesterday. Dude can still flat out sing. He sang an old school soul # by Rev. Al Green, “Let’s Stay Together”. Hit it out of the park.

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David Aldridge is saying the kevin Love extension is NOT final. Honestly, if Westbrook got 5 years, Love needs to get 5 years.

Hawks better come to do some work on the boards tonight.

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Why are you guys talking about trades when we are number 1 in the division and playing with effort we have not seen in years past. Support your team and be glad they are playing hard night in and night out and winning close games. If I see another comment about a trade which would break up the teams chemistry I am gonna call Immigration on your @$$. Our bench has been playing great, Josh smith has played like an all star, and Joe has done a a great job of scoring in clutch situations and being a leader on the court. GO Hawks vs the SPURS

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Joe Mama,

You said Perhaps that way he is so disappointed in Al’s selfish and unrealistic demands, which is the true source of the grumblings in the locker room..

Did you read that somewhere? In everything I’ve read, Josh has nothing but good things to say about Al. So what’s your source?

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Eric – I was just throwing a scenario out there. We could even keep a Horford/Noah at C, and let Horford spell Josh a little there. The point is you get quality players if you have the opportunity, and I like our chances this year if we get 1 more serviceable Big.

Hitman – The Noah thing was in response to a question/observation KevinM was making. With Noah being down, and his contract going up, it looks like they may be laying the groundwork to keep Asik, who’s a RFA after this season, and dump Noah. We were just looking at possibilities, that’s all.

I’ve already gone on record to get Javale if possible at a decent price.

And if Brad Miller is healthy, I don’t see how he makes us worse – you like ZaZa and Collins as your C rotation? I like Ivan too, but he is a little undersized to play C sometimes.

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Yea, can somebody please post the source for the Al vs. Marvin, Josh, and JJ locker room confrontation. I can’t find it by googling.

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I don’t see Javale making it past the trade deadline in Washington. Dude is talentaed, but a malcontent in their losing culture. Would he tighten up in a winning program? Time will tell, but he’s definitely talented. I’d love to see him in a solid role for a contender, just to see what he could do as a true role player. He’s proven he can’t be relied on to carry the burden of leading a quality team.

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Fundamentals – you said, “I do think the fight for who’s the best 4 did heat up in the locker room. ”

Any ideas when, or is this just speculation?

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How does internal strife turn into JJ, Marvin, and Josh confronting Al, with Teague behind him, and Josh calling Al out? Is this a figment of somebody’s imagination? Somebody quote a source or something.

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Nobody has any real sources. It’s all speculation.

I can’t say I’d give Al up for Javale. I honestly can’t decide whether getting Javale as a big for Hinrich would help this team. Hinrich will give us a great boost to our backcourt. I’d say lose Sloan or Stack to make room. Pargo has proven his value to me. Ivan is a definite for this team. He brings 100% of what we lack. I loved watching him torment Gooden the other night.

There are options for signing a free agent big. All we need is D, rebounding and a shot blocking presence. We don’t need much to get us over the hump. I honestly believe Smoove can keep up his pace. He’s finally using his talent. Has he maximized? I’d say no, so there’s still room to improve. Dude is truly gifted, except when it comes to shot selection.

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SteveW,

Why do you bother?

The Troll has a point somewhere in the middle of all that crap – I think Al’s attitude towards playing C is wrong too – but he:

a) does not look at the means necessary for him to make a point, even if he has to completely distort reality; and
b) loves to get on everyone’s nerves by doing a) to the point in which b) – getting into people’s nerves – is an aim on its own greater than the original Hawks’ related thoughts he may have.

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JOE MAMA-Either you believe everyone else is as dumb as a door knob, or you’re as dumb as a door knob, or it’s a combination of the 2. The HORFORD HATING BS you keep spewing is so deep you have to make up even more BS to keep the stench going. If you”re not putting words in players mouths, you’re completely misrepresenting facts, ignoring them completely, or trivializing them.

You obviously don’t have a very high basketball IQ, and you obviously crave attention, so you use the approach where you focus on one player and continuously bash him. You obviously don’t seem to care that you usually look like a complete fool in the process. Only a complete fool would think anyone would buy you ANAL MINDED EXCUSE for trivializing Hordord’s selection as the NBAs 3rd best center.

You implied that his selection shouldn’t be respected or taken seriously because of who selected him, like all of the other players were selected in a different way by a different group. Now, that major example of supreme stupidity is definitely on you. You’ve been asked at least 3 times, that I know of, to produce any proof of certain comments you claim were made by Horford and Josh. So far, we’re all still waiting for you to offer any proof, or anything other than your usually ANAL MINDED BS. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES!

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Meaning $$ for a FA.

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Vava74 – thanks for the reminder bro – occasionally I get carried away.

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Ken,

The troll’s purpose and aim is to get a kick out of the reactions to his posts, not to post quality or at least sincere/frank “hoopinion”.

I don’t have Horford in a pedestal like many, including you, and I don’t consider that Al is beyond reproach and criticism, in particular in light of his cr@ppy playoffs last year.

Al is not a PF, does not have the speed or the skill set to play PF effectively in the NBA so his wish to play PF in our Hawks should be targeted for criticism since the view that he can be a good PF is a GROSS mistake.

Al is what he is: an undersized C who typically worked his butt off down low to using his superior speed and agility (without the ball) but lately got too enamored with the glitter of those open jump shots.

Having said this, I think that Al was getting back to form slowly and his stats were down due to that (MC reported that he did not look in shape when he reported), so, again, some criticism on his off-season may be deserved BUT we should also factor the fact that he played for his country during the summer and may have needed to “wind down and relax a bit” (I personally believe that he should have worked to bulk up too instead of working on developing PF skills).

Also, I noticed that Al realized that his open looks from the baseline and the elbow were no longer as easily available and was starting to mix it up inside more so his loss was IMO a huge blow.

The point is:

1. Al should be the aim of justifiable and balanced criticism (I am not backtracking on my post playoff Diaper Al rants because IMO he deserved them THEN);

2. Criticism/commentary from the Troll should be seen strictly as “blog noise” and not the aim of rebuttals since it’s pointless: you are using up valuable energy replying to someone who is thrilled to tickle your nerves.

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STEVEW-these HORFORD HATING BASHERS don’t deal with FACTS or REALITY when it comes to Horford. If they did, they would have come up with the same FACTS you did, when it comes to Josh’s performance before AL went down. But that’s not what these ANALS are all about, and it doesn’t support their obsession.

I’d like to divide the remainder of the Hawks season into segments, like the 5 gm road trip we’re currently on. We can go 5-0 or 4-1 without much difficulty.

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Damn! talk about thought police! They just removed Almost Al of J.M. post. I guess he was right. this is a Al horford fan club. Im out of here.

This is like the gestapo

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And where as I suck Dick you will have to have at least 8 inches for me to work with you.

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Crawfords teammates want him to be an ineffecient chucker? thats because that who he is,

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VALVA74-I don’t think any player is above reproach, but there’s a big difference between being objectively critical of a player, and downright bashing, lying and misrepresenting facts about a player. I was critical of Bibby hurting the team in his role as a starter, and him playing major mins, but I didn’t blame Bibby, I blamed Drew. I didn’t refuse to acknowledge Bibby’s attributes and contributions. I just felt the team would have been better served with him utilizing those attributes off the bench and playing fewer mins.

And everything I said about both he and Jamal has been proven correct, and I never had to lie, misrepresent, trivialize, or make up anything about them to make my points. My mother is a retired psychologist, and being around her has had a profound influence on me. That’s why I find it so facinating, and sometimes annoying, that someone who wants attention, and to be viewed as intelligent and mature, would continuously utilize such a childish and obviously stupid approach to garnering attention to himself.

When you factor in his habit, or perceived need, to utilize multiple names, it takes it to a level where emotional and/or psychological issues become an issue.

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“POR’s game in ATL a few days ago was a perfect example on how Jamal, even on an OK night is a two way commodity:

Jamal started really hot, then overstayed on the court, shot blanks after blanks whilst not playing any D and POR went into a hole, then he got hot again and POR got back into the game but it was not enough.”

Jamal Crawford had nothing to do with Portland losing that game in Atlanta. Hell, he was the only reason they were in it. Aldridge getting held to a draw by Josh, and Portland’s starting backcourt (Matthews, and Felton) were 5 of 22 from the floor. If not for Jamal, they lose by 20.

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ROD FROM CP-I don’t think any of Jamal’s HCs asked him to ignore playing any DEF whatsoever, or to be a streak shooter, or take so many shots to score. The Hawks have managed to improve greatly upon what Jamal provided by signing and utilizing castoffs and minimum contract players that aren’t afraid of playing DEF.

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Rod,

You neglect several things, being that the first one is that stats don’t tell everything. But even so, just on stats, there is a world of difference between Jamal and Vinnie:

1. You are comparing Jamal aged 30 with Vinnie aged 35 when his game was decaying. Try comparing with Vinnie in 88/89 OK? Vinnie’s FG% from the field was typically around .46, not .42.

2. You are comparing Jamal playing 30.2 minutes per game with Vinnie playing 29.1 (again in his last season with the Pistons when he was older and playing the second highest minutes per game average since 82/83).

Try to compare Jamal with Vinnie’s production on all stats when he was playing 24/25 minutes* which was his normal average.

3. You are not valuing 1.7 rebounds per game MORE from the G spot which is way wrong when dissing my argument of Vinnie’s much better all round game. Rebounding wins games and a guy coming off the bench averaging 3.4 rebounds per game on 29 minutes is pretty good whilst Jamal is KNOWN to be the poorest most disinterested rebounder in the league.

4. You did not present stats on TURNOVERS: 1.44 for Vinnie against 1.91 for Jamal (I acknowledge that AS A HAWK, Jamal was better than previously and that he improved there too).

5. I advise you to look at career numbers to see all the above clearer.

* 24/25 minutes per game should be the MAXIMUM usage ceiling for Jamal. It’s a pitty that all HC use Jamal too much.

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New blog up.

For what it’s worth (not much), Hollinger’s crazy computer models give the Hawks a 48.9% chance of winning the division and a 11.5% chance at the #1 seed — both better odds than Miami or Orlando.

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I honestly could see Josh going to Boston or LAL. I also see Josh heading to SAS also, or Houston. I think Josh is the type who will go where he can win, and not be caught up in money.

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Why do people here keep thinking that NO would take Marvin/Hinrich for one of their bigs? They already have plenty of guards and 2 wings that are comparable to Marvin (Ariza & Aminu). If you say they’re after expiring contracts, they already have one on Kaman.
I’m just saying…trades need to make sense for both parties, you know?

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“no wonder the poor fellow has to post under so many names, when he voices his opinion you block his name and IP address, then he has to start all over under a new name and address. Then you call him a troll. Thats not fair AJC”

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DS must I spell it out for you verbatim…

NO is owned by the league…
The league is trying to sell the team…
New owners want small payroll..
.
Winning is secondary…
Hinrich + Kaman = $22M off the books – that’s a win…
Marvin, Ariza, Aminu would make a nice tandem…
In fact, I would dare say Marvin would be the man…

Marvin needs more freedom, deferring to JJ is no way to live…

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Kirk is back… where is the new blog at? Almost game time!

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